Ep 72: “Go After Your Dreams” Bernicia Boateng on Building Enoléh and Never Holding Back

0:00Rochelle: Today I'm joined by Bernicia Boateng, makeup artist, entrepreneur and more recently founder of Enole, a luxury hair brand redefining how women experience wigs. Enole is a brand built not just on product but on perspective, encouraging women to embrace versatility and redefine beauty on their own terms. So let's find out why she's a lady who launched.

0:30Three, one, zero. All engines running. Look out. We have a gun.

0:35Rochelle: Well, I'm so excited you're here. This is like, I just, I watch on. And obviously we see things, not everybody always gets time to catch up. But I watch on, I suppose, mostly via Instagram. And I'm like, I love what you're doing. I love what you're building. I also love that it wasn't the most obvious thing for you. It was and it wasn't because you always look incredible. but I would think that we were going to go into makeup but I suppose just by I suppose by default by what you do and I love that this is where we are so I've got so much to talk to you about but first of all I will start by saying I'm very proud and I love to see it happen so well done because I want to talk about what you've done thus far but I really want to make this about Enola because I know this is such a big chapter for you take us back to sort of the idea that Enola came to life like what was that light bulb moment that you thought okay this is where I need to be well thank you so much first of all for having me this is actually my first ever podcast of all time see this is even better let the confetti cannon off and to be doing it with you means a lot because you know how much I love you I think you're incredible and you're one of the women I honestly look up to in business and just your overall personal brand I think you're incredible so let's go back to your question a little loving that was such a loving from us guys so let's go back to your question like what made me think of an ole well for me it's interesting because a lot of people look at me and think makeup and makeup only and they're right I have been doing makeup for the last 16 years now I started makeup when I was 18 and now I'm about to be 35 years old so it's been a long time and I love what I do I truly like enjoy what I do but I think the market has it on lock if I'm honest I think there will be a time in my life where I will contribute to the beauty industry but I think I'm happy with where that is that's so do you know what that's so interesting it's such a sort of humble and real thing to say because we can all be so swept up in what we do and our creativity and our point of difference and our take on something but for you to say for now for me and I suppose over your 16 year sort of experience in working in that space you are so lucky that you've worked with some incredible brands and you continue to do that in that makeup space but I think it's a really kind I love that take on it.

3:08Rochelle: I love what I do and I'm so passionate about makeup, but the industry has this on lock and I'm not sure what value I would add to that space right now. I think that's exactly what it is. I think for me, I'm so intentional about everything I do. When I decided to be a makeup artist all those years ago, it's because I never saw myself in that community. I wouldn't look in the magazines and necessarily see women that looked like me. So it became a big thing for me to like make sure that dark skinned women are represented well, that we look put together, that we look beautiful, that we can have second skin makeup and we don't always have to have, you know, the full on coverage and the heavy makeup and whatever.

3:50We can be any type of woman. And because I couldn't see that from the age of 16, I want to say even as far as 15, it was like, I want to fill that gap. And it had been like, yes, I'm going to do it and I'm the kind of person that I'm not going to sit here and act like I'm the biggest businesswoman in the world because I'm brand new to business that's the truth of it but one thing that's carried me from the beginning of my journey is being passionate and being relentless about what I believe in um so being 16 years old and getting my first ever like sorry 18 years old and getting my first ever um kind of what's it called you know you're like Christmas temp job so I worked So as a Christmas temp, my first ever makeup job was at MAC.

4:34I got to university and I was like, do you know what? Mum and dad, I'm at uni because you guys want me at uni. I'm from a very Ghanaian household and there was no such thing as you're not going to university. You are going by force. But I said, you know what? I'll give them what they want. But the minute I get there, I want to do more makeup.

4:51Rochelle: And was it really interesting for you when you sort of had that temp job? Because obviously MAC is like the kind of holy grail, isn't it? I was absolutely a queen for working at MAC. Like back then to work at MAC in 2009, 2010, it was levels, number one. And also it was like, you couldn't just get a job at MAC. You had to do a makeup test and you had to bring a model and you'd have somebody like watching you and watching the way that you apply makeup. Like to get into the makeup industry those days was so hard. So for me, when I got that job, I was like, I made it. You can be passionate about something and then you can have an experience like that.

5:36Rochelle: And you can sort where it's so sort of. You've got to be such a people person. It doesn't just it's not just your love of makeup, is it? It's kind of the skill set of dealing with people, of making somebody feel incredibly special and making, you know, bringing out that confidence in someone. I mean, I've been around you and I could understand how that is like second nature to you. Is that something that felt really instant? Honestly, it's who I am. Like, that's the truth of it. I feel like growing up, I was always the kid. I was always making everyone laugh. So my dad would always be like, you're such a clown.

6:12I'm not a serious person in the slightest. And my biggest thing is leaving people with a smile on their face.

6:18Rochelle: You're a real hype woman. oh yeah i get that from you no but i mean for example we're very lucky in what we do we're around makeup and obviously now you've had that experience in that in that space but and for me you know well i'll be on tv or i've been in a girl band and getting glammed is a big part of the day today sometimes the point where i'm like i can't be bothered to have them today today was one of them i'm like i'm doing my own i'm right thank you very much um when i look at like my my girlfriends and my girl group you know having their makeup done is a treat it's like a big birthday it's their wedding day so those kind of big moments that can be quite scary you are the sort of person that somebody wants by their side sort of making them feel super special I think that also comes from me being someone that didn't always feel beautiful when I was young and I hate to say it because now I do I know who I am and I know how God created me is exactly how I'm meant to be and if anything now I'm at a point where I just know how to make my skin glow even more like back then being younger being dark skinned you would be not like it was thrown frowned upon necessarily but it wasn't exactly celebrated yeah which would leave you feeling insecure now we're in a different place but I always felt like with my friends especially the ones that look just like me I loved giving them lots of compliments and telling them like you know I've learned this new thing in makeup and just look at how glowy your skin looks and oh my god the chestnut lip liner for the dark skin girls that's like it's tea it's tea like even before those things were a thing it was like I love to hype up women that I know had similar kind of upbringing as me and maybe had that same kind of like feeling of not feeling the most confident that's where it stems from but then I also feel like as a makeup artist one of the strongest things and one of the most powerful things that you have as a makeup artist is the ability to actually change the way someone feels and how they perform and have a lasting impression on them So for me, it's like, it's one thing to be an artist, but it's a completely different thing to be a part of someone's team.

8:22And, you know, like I've got one of my favorite clients. I've worked with Michaela now for about Michaela Cole for like 15, 10 years. I mean, not stretch it, like let's say about 10 years, like a decade. But the reason why, regardless, there's been times where I've made mistakes. She's going to kill me for saying this. But there's been times where I've made mistakes with her makeup and she's maybe not had the perfect finish. but she'll always come back and be like B I want you on my team and it's not just about these two hands because there are so many women are so incredibly talented but the way you make people feel is the reason you will always be sat back in that chair mistake or no mistake do you know what

9:00Rochelle: that is that is so true and so powerful and like I like to think I've you know I've been in this industry since I was 12 years old and it's not always because I'm the best at my job of course I make mistakes I might have said the wrong line I might have been a bit nervous one day I'm you know and I'm learning as I grow still we always are but I always like to think that I'm good to work with I like to sort of make everybody feel like we're a team and that for me I think it does speak volumes of course you can have all the talent in the world but if people want you around that says a lot about you and your character yes and I always speak about like intrinsic value and extrinsic value so your intrinsic value as you know are the things that as a person you hold that so one of my intrinsic values is that I'm a makeup artist I'm also somebody that comes with an abundance of love to give in the most natural form way people want you around for the things that it's not easy easy to replace you for yes so when I speak to you know the next generation of makeup artists or girls that come to me for mentoring or anything I always say your external values will always make you somebody that holds value but your intrinsic values the things that aren't easy to replace about a person that's what keeps you in the room that's what makes sure that people leave you and they feel like you've added value to them so my value i add to you is not the eyeshadow i put on your eyes or the lip gloss i put on your lips oh that girl you know it is incredible but it's it's that feeling yeah is that wanting for us to build something i also understand that I don't need to be the star in every room I walk into like and and that's not to say that you know you guys see me on social media I love to post my pictures and you know give it my you know little diva moments and that's great but when I'm on set as a makeup artist I'm there to be your support system I'm there to be your backup you know your backup dancer like you know that's my job yeah and do you know what you've nailed the kind of because it's a real fine line isn't it it's a real fine if i'm doing your glam we are doing it's about girl it's about you and i think that as a professional in this industry there is a fine line yeah and you know it's important to understand and respect your clients and when you're when you get there you'll find it much easier to build long-term relationships for me i don't judge myself based on how many clients have I had there are loads of artists that have got loads of clients it's how many times do people come back to you and that's even been a huge thing for me when creating Anole it's incredible to have a brand that so early on people are interested in it and people love it and it's beautiful but do you know what when I became really excited about Anole the second drop and the same people that bought on the first drop came back for the second drop and I said to myself I'm shadowing what I did in makeup I'm bringing it into this side of my business then this is where it gets so interesting because you're so right and I I remember saying this when I launched my little cocoa you have this you know we can't deny the privilege of the kind of following and people that you know that really support you that you've built that over time right and that is a privilege to have we're not sort of fresh out the gates not knowing who might buy this because we've sort of over time naturally organically built those people that are here with us they'll buy it and that's lovely but I'm not going to get excited about what happens first I'm going to get excited if that if that bottle of baby moisturizer runs out and they think oh I'm running out of that I need to go back and get it again that's when we get excited because that's how we know we've done something that actually that repeat purchase and that loyal customer you've now created something that they're excited about and that they all of a sudden need in their lives and that's I think for me when I realized that I was really onto a winner you know oh honey you've been onto that winner like my little cocoa is absolutely incredible you should be so proud I love you so let's so I think you said something really interesting there what what happens with hair and makeup actually sits so nicely when you think about a glam team it's hair makeup and styling right so there's the world that they kind of intertwine so nicely together and ultimately going back to what you're saying is making women feel great when did you realize that okay like you say at the minute I love makeup but I don't feel like I've got value to add at the minute that feels different I feel like I'm really excited about what other all these big brands are doing but when it comes to hair how did you feel that you could change change the kind of path that was happening in that space and really add Benicia to that category for me wigs I feel like wigs and extensions right there are so many different reasons why women choose to wear extensions choose to wear wigs and I think being a dark-skinned black woman we're often pinned with this stigma that we wear extensions because we're not proud of our hair and we're often pinned with the stigma that actually we want to be something that we're not but for me I remember being in like university and I've worn extensions for a long time for a very good reason but I remember being almost bullied for wearing extensions like oh wiggy and this and that and I believe in for me if you bully me about something best believe I'm going to turn it around and make some money off what you think you're going to bully me about like I'm going to turn the narrative and I believe that that is our power as women okay as people this is ladies who not girl as women here as women I believe that we can turn anything into something profitable something that adds value and something that adds confidence and those are the three metrics that I kind of build my life off so being a woman that was kind of looked at like why you always wearing extensions we've never seen your real hair well the truth is I have traction alopecia and that's not something I chose to have it was something that just happened to me and you know everybody knows I'm obsessed with my mother like she's my queen she's the reason I'm in this industry but I remember growing up in the 90s and my mum moving to you know the UK her biggest thing was to survive so me being eight years old and needed my hair to be getting a treatment or getting my braids done like by someone with really soft hands or whatever that wasn't necessarily her most that wasn't high up on her priority list her priority list was I need to work I need to hustle I need to put you guys through school I need me and your dad to come together and do x y and z and unfortunately I feel like there are a lot of women who grew up in the 90s like I did who might have come from parents, like especially African parents, Ghana, Nigerian, wherever, who were in a similar situation where our hair was just not the priority for our parents.

16:08And then I might cry when she's putting a comb through it. So now I've got to go and get braids. And you know how bad it is to have that much treatment in your hair and then go and get braids or whatever. So a lot of women my age, from our backgrounds where we grew up, have traction alopecia and we're ashamed of it. So a lot of people do opt for wigs and extensions. But what I believe is I'm not bad for wanting to wear extensions. Just let me wear some good quality extensions. And that's a part of the reason I wear wigs. And then as I've grown up in this industry, it's now become a statement of beauty.

16:45for me your hair is your crown and whether my hair is growing naturally out of my head or not I know there are beautiful options for you to have gorgeous hair extensions wigs hair hair extensions that make you feel empowered and make you present as your best self yeah I'm a firm believer in if you look good you do good and if you do good of course you can achieve anything so for me it always starts at that baseline of how do I feel how do I look it's not about the texture of hair the color I believe that women we can decide to be whoever we want to be on any given day and your hair has a huge part to do with that of course so I'm no longer ashamed of you can't call me wiggy because I'm wearing that's right gorgeous wigs and you can't buy in the

17:31Rochelle: business but it's it's a business like if you want you can call me wiggy and it's about you changing that narrative and it's and this is it and I believe that you know it's so important to be able to take even something that once upon a time felt like a negative you can spin it every you can always spin it around and do whatever you want can i read there was a gorgeous interview from you and um marie claire and i thought it was so so special i want to read this quote it's from you but i just think it's articulated so so well you said for black women hair has never just been hair it's been political it's been policed and endlessly scrutinized The decision to wear extensions, wigs or protective styles has been shunned and judged, framed as inauthentic or deceptive, as if our beauty must exist within someone else's rules to be valid.

18:20Rochelle: We're asked to explain ourselves to justify our choices, to perform a version of authenticity that is never fully ours. The narrative is deeply harmful and no lay was created to push back against that noise. wearing extensions is not about hiding it can be about creativity ease protection confidence or just joy it can be practical it can be playful it can be powerful i know they exist to help black women reclaim pride in their choices and to offer a premium affirming space where they are celebrated rather than scrutinized i mean it's so so powerful and one thing i'll say is it's so it's so visible what you're doing and what I love for you is that you've really you're really trailblazing for me in this category and in this space because what you've done is you've really you're not okay the wigs are incredible they're great quality hair etc etc but what you've done is you've sort of you've really you've given it it's a brand it's a a feeling there's an aesthetic there there's you've given it personality and I think that's what's really really exciting it's like the chicest fucking thing I've ever seen it looks like when you were first working on something I was like what is she teasing is this like you know Net-A-Porter's new competitor is this like it just looks so like I wasn't even sure what it is and I love what you've done there and I always really I think in business it's not necessarily reinventing the wheel like I wasn't the first person to launch a baby brand but to add a bit of sort of spice and a personality and you know do something in a way that really aligns with you is what is powerful and I think you've done such an incredible job because it comes from a place of such meaning but you've made it really sexy which I think is like it's hard so I've got so many questions about this like where does how like when you knew this is what you wanted to do you know who you want to speak to you know the women that you want to kind of you're like girl I've got this I've got you we're going to do this how what was the kind of first idea or that first sort of step on that vision board when you were developing this okay so first of all thank you so much that means so much to me that you you view it in that way thank you okay so when it comes to the aesthetic the vibe the feel of anole I always say it's my point of view so anole is literally my point of view in physical form and the reason why I decided when I was starting anole I'm not going to look at anybody else's hair brand because I'm not a hairstylist I'm not a hairstylist I don't actually know how to do hair I know how to kind of make my hair look cute but it really is my point of view in physical form and for me I am naturally very fashion adjacent yes I'm a makeup artist but I've worked in fashion for years oh you're a fashion girl we know I love I love fashion and I wanted to bring the product to life in a way that it's being honored especially because the messaging behind Enole is so deep to me my insecurities and I believe in you can polish anything up and have it be lit so I'm very you know East London you can make anything lit like I hadn't seen a hair brand a black hair brand put a product out that was fashion adjacent that had a personality that felt like a true brand that you know was something we would be proud to buy from proud to be in the campaign should be in magazines it should be visible and when I was starting Inole it was all of those things it was me as a makeup artist me as somebody that sat on set of fashion magazines and you know editorial campaigns for the last 15 years it was the women that are around me that speak and act and are so elegant and just fantastic and it was bringing all of those experiences together and putting it into this brand that once upon a time represented something that brought me shame how do I make this look like pride how do I make this look like love for my people how do I make this something that they are proud of you cannot look at an no-lay woman and tell me she's wiggy or she's this she's bad she's bad that's what she is she's beautiful she's normally black we are doing hair for every woman but you know at the beginning of Enole I think it's important to know the DNA yes and the DNA is dark-skinned black women who've gone through similar things as myself and that's what we did so even in our campaign we had Nilly Nilly's this gorgeous gorgeous girl she's in the first Enole campaign and she's wearing the Bernicea bob and she's someone that's gone through cancer and her story just hit so hard because she's this gorgeous woman who's so confident has so much that like she's doing with herself she's like an absolute force but she's she's dealt with cancer and again it was turning her pain into pride and if you go on her social media guys honestly go and follow her nilly's fantastic and she has an incredible charity as well for women with cancer And literally, I was so intentional about every person I wanted to work with down to my photographers, videographers.

24:02Like everybody was someone that means something and has a story and has a journey. And, you know, it's incredible to just be able to put my personality, my thoughts, my experiences and what I've seen visually in this industry into a brand and for it to be so well received. So I'm really excited. It's so you.

24:24Rochelle: it's you there's not one person that could argue with the fact that everything you're saying even now if you're listening to this and you haven't yet stumbled across an ole how when you hear venicia speak in the way she has and then you go and check out an ole you're like it's there you understand it's instant i want to know because you're you're so nailed on in what you want an Olay to be how you want that executed from a sort of creativity standpoint from a product development standpoint from you know the community that you've built so what I want to know is when it comes to and you touch on this at the beginning of our conversation when it comes to actually launching a business this whole being in the business realm is very very new to you what was the first move that you made create you know and I'm I'm very similar to this obviously now I've got my head around a lot more than when I started just but I'm you creativity I understand what this brand is you know I could be a brand consultant for a lot of people but when it comes to the kind of business and the behind the scenes what was the most scary to you and what did you need the most help with the scariest thing is for me when we first started or before launch day by the way like three days before launch day I don't think I slept I was literally stressed out anxiety scared it's my first real business like you know I've had business in the past where I had like my makeup studio but that's completely different because it's my two hands and I trust what I can do yes but this was a different it's not product based and it's not product based for me it was like are people gonna buy this is it gonna sell but what about even before you reach that stage what about like actually going okay I know I want this to be how do I find a supplier how you know what's the right margin I need to hit where are we at with budgeting like do you did you have someone that you lent on instantly or was or I have a business partner and my business partner is incredible he's one of my best friends amazing and literally I remember calling him up and being like this was maybe two and a half years before we actually launched Anole so Anole was in the works for almost two and a half years before it went to market and I called him I was like I need to do something with hair extensions because there's a cap in the market for a brand that represents us in the right way and that is given nothing but top-notch quality and top-notch branding and just positioning we need to do it and he was like you know what I trust you because he trusts my vision but the difference is and my my sister Lisa will vouch for me when I say this is I'm a creative I'm someone that's really good at making things look good so I'm good at making people look good I'm good at making my Instagram look good I'm good at making everything look polished but am I the most organized no am I like the person that's going to read all of the finer details no I'm extremely dyslexic and a bit ADHD and I get hyper fixated on one area which for me is normally how the way things look how they feel is it on brand is it this is it that but Enole could not be Enole without my business partner like it just couldn't because he's made sure that behind the scenes everything's seamless everything's perfect and I lean on him a lot for creativity as well but also just us kind of building this out to be something we've never seen before because I think sometimes when you're creating something from your own lens it's hard to look at another brand or another business similar to yours and be like I want it like this because the truth is it's not been done the way you're doing it so we're learning everything for the first time which was scary so before we launched my biggest thing was okay so I thought of this idea I'm one of those people that have a new idea all the time like and I want to go in this direction now and this that and the other but it was like can you actually really make this a business and then after launch I was like yeah I can yes yes and having that confidence like you say just knowing that it's all great in theory but It's only great if someone's going to buy it.

28:49Rochelle: And that's kind of, I really love that, like you're saying, you've got your business partner. And are you very clear on like your roles and responsibilities? And do they ever collide? They do kind of like collide at times. Like I said, even though he's more, does everything around the business and I'm more like the creative, the way the business looks, the way it feels, all of like the marketing and all of that front face and stuff. there are still times where he's like be less i've seen this this is a sick reference let's do this like he's like reads a lot and how do you read his references i'm like that's so cute leave it with me i'll put it in the mood board i'll try and make that work coming you leave you leave that to me but i think it's really because i think that's one thing where a lot of people sort of make mistakes early on and I was very clear and like I am this is mine and you know I'm so passionate about this but I am the bones of the brand I am the creativity that is you know that's me the product development I am like this is mine but if you asking me to look at commercials and margins and no yeah that's not me so I'm just a girl yeah I'm just a girl and I want it to be the best it can be but I don't know how to make it get there so I'm really happy to lean on you over there doing that but you leave this side to me but also I believe that you know it's almost like having a child right who your child is on day one is not who they're going to be even three months from now so we are both growing in business and as people and so what I might need help with now is that's going to slightly change a year from now I might you know this is my first ever business so essentially I don't know the things that he knows because he's had other businesses in the past and he has a lot more knowledge on that stuff so but then he's also not had this business but he hasn't had this business learning isn't it so we're learning and through this journey what's incredible is what I was asking him questions about maybe in November six months on I don't need to ask those questions now I know and I can only imagine how that's going to evolve in another six months or another year so yeah I'm always saying the best way to know is to throw yourself in the deep end and I've really really found that I mean I never went to business school I don't have a business degree but I've got a couple businesses and I think that's and they're amazing thank you but that's one thing I always want to teach my kids too is that like sometimes it is just throwing yourself in the deep end ask like being a sponge like you say like november last year there was lots that you didn't know and you didn't understand around the launch but now you're like okay yeah i've got that this is what we do right like you're in and it's kind of if you've got great people that you can learn from and be on that journey with like always take advantage of that ask all the questions soak it all up just do it just do it just do it like 100 % just do it like my biggest advice to anybody that wants to start something new or is you know scared about making a change or doing whatever is just do it like I've done that throughout my entire career I'm never too scared to reinvent myself I'm never too scared to like level up the way that I might do my content like over the years the way I look as a person has transformed and changed and has evolved and as women especially that is one of our most incredible hidden yeah like you know what should I even call it like it's like a skill set it's like a skill set in itself you can be whoever you want to be and there is no box that you can be put in like I refuse to be put in a box yeah that's my favorite thing I'm like oh you expected a makeup product well you've got wigs and we're gonna rock it and we're gonna give it the same vibe like just do it don't be scared and like you say like we're such like multi-faceted creatures like we are they were like onions aren't we there's so many layers to us and i don't you don't just like makeup you don't just like clothing you know there is so much more to us and there are so many ways that this can go and as i said at the start of the chat i love that you kind of were like hang on i'm not no that's not me let me just keep you on your toes here we're going we you gotta keep them on their toes what do you think that this sort of journey so far and as I said an early launch in November late exactly that's this is so exciting because it's so in its infancy and what you've already achieved is so so incredible what would you say that this journey thus far and obviously you've been working on this for two and a half years but in those two and a half years what would you say that this taught you about yourself this taught me that I am someone that is very clear on my vision and I think I always say just do it like I just said yeah but just do it with a clear vision oh that's good a little caveat there yeah just a little caveat like have understand who you are where you place yourself yeah try your hardest not to look at competition too much like with me it's taught me that if I believe in myself I can achieve anything if I truly sit down and I know that's like the most cliche thing you can say believe in yourself but truly if you trust your gut if your gut is talking to you and I feel like for me I'm a Christian and I believe when my gut's talking to me that's God talking to me when something has been put on my heart to do I'm doing it come rain come shine hellstone snow we're doing it yeah and understanding that god said to me you are going to create something and it's going to feel like you it's going to be an extension to your personality your style your vision and it's gonna speak to the woman that you are and that was always at the forefront of my mind so even when i was looking at my you know i remember like a couple of years ago i was like i want to buy this bag and then i looked at all the stuff that i've got to pay for for it no all right next year then it can wait and it's like having that in your spirit to understand that this is what I'm trying to achieve this is what we're going to do this is the aesthetic we're going for we're not changing that because this didn't happen on time because in business that's the thing I remember we were doing our first ever campaign which we actually shot about a year before we actually launched it was a big shoot and in my head I was like I want it to feel like the Zara shoots I've worked on or this campaign.

35:31Yeah, because that's the other thing.

35:31Rochelle: You've got so much to, I mean, almost living in this world of comparison by like launching your own shoot on a Monday and then on a Wednesday you're doing makeup on a - I'm launching a wigs and bundles brand and I'm looking, my references are literally Vogue. I'm like, that's where I want to be. That's where we deserve, that's the levels. Like we had a huge camera crew. We did everything. we got styling we got you know the best photographers and thank god for every single person who worked on our first ever campaign and now we're gearing up for our next campaign and I'm like you know what sets you apart and that's exactly what I mean I didn't know when there were like teasers I was like I wonder what it what she's doing like because it's it's so gorgeous to see uh you know a business doing what you're doing and producing what you are in that editorial like it's it's so shocking and I don't I've not seen anyone do it in that way before which is why it's so so exciting thank you but I always say sorry to cut you but um I always say like don't like I said just do it right but the biggest thing is if you've if you can feel in your spirit that you need to execute something on this level you actually might have to go about buying certain things some months I'm I'm like someone that you know some people see me and be like oh she loves they look good whatever whatever I went without so much because of this vision that I've been given that I need to fulfill for women who are like me and I'm like just work those extra hours yeah save that extra bit more I wasn't flossing it was like a higher purpose for you you're like I don't and it also instantly kind of it instantly becomes a bit of a leveler doesn't it like okay that's like oh none of that stuff's actually important because I'm getting to here and that's kind of I suppose it becomes your focus and I can imagine you as a businesswoman that's absolutely crushing it like you've been killing it for ages and I see how hard you go like this before we walked in here I said Rosh like how do you do it because I'm looking at you you look stunning you've got kids you've got a marriage you've got all of this going on and you said B I just have to make sure I know what I'm doing yeah and that's it that's the stage that I'm in now because I I don't like to pretend I'm this big business woman because I'm not.

37:52I'm a baby to it. So even like coming here, I was like, I need to ask Rochelle some questions.

37:56Rochelle: Yeah, but everyone's a baby to it to someone else. Like I have women sit in that chair over there and I'm like, once we're finished here, once we're like, what do you think about this? Can you help me with this? We're all, it depends who's stood next to you, right? Everyone's a baby somewhere and we've only, you know, I've been doing this. I hate saying six or seven now because all I hear is my kids going six, seven. but I've probably been doing this six or seven more years than you but you know and then I sit and we you know I'm interviewing Jo Malone and she's so I think but that's the beauty of this being able to have conversations with different women but I think one thing that we all have in common is that we've just developed that sort of fearless attitude and we've got that clarity and knowing what we want and we're decisive in knowing what we want we just got to find a way to execute it.

38:43Rochelle: Is there anything that surprised you about yourself? Because, you know, like you said, your motto is always just do it. And that's what you've kind of done. Is there anything that surprised you about yourself so far along the way? Yeah, there's been a few things that surprised me. I can endure. Like, I've learned that I have a very high threshold for hard work. Like, I'm the kind of person that can literally wake up at 6am in the morning, work a whole day, be told that I've got to attend an event, I've got a red carpet and I will be at every single one of them. So I don't know if that's necessarily the best advice, but this whole process has taught me that Benicia, you can carry a lot on your shoulders and you can endure, but in a way that's like benefits your business and benefits yourself.

39:33Like you can put certain things in order and make sure that you get it all done. I think a couple of years ago, I was very chill. I'm like, okay, I've got to shoot tomorrow. I'm going to shoot some content in the evening. I'm going to have an early night, do my skincare, do my wine done and go to bed. That's like sometimes you're like, I miss those days.

39:50Rochelle: I miss those days. Making content for just other people when it wasn't so high pressure. I know. And it's crazy because now I look at my life and I'm like, I still would never trade any of it. for what I'm building in Anole. Like I'm so excited about this project that I feel amped to work like a 12, 13 hour day. I'm like, yep, let's go. And almost like this was your sort of calling and your higher purpose. But actually at the same time, it's really, it's also super smart because you've actually not taken yourself out of a category that you've nailed. So you're still working with all these incredible brands in the makeup space, which in turn, you're still propping up that side of your life.

40:32Rochelle: like it's actually super smart because if you launch a makeup brand it would be then hard for you to talk about how great the new YSL mascara is when you've got your own so I think it's all at the same time as it being something that you're meant to do it's actually there's like if you're talking strategy like it's super smart because it's meant that you're still you've got that avenue of income that's still open for yourself at the same time I think that was a really big thing for me as well like I said I think if it came on my heart to create something in beauty I would have done it but I genuinely love what the beauty industry is doing like the products at the moment I think we're in a good place yeah and I was like if I one day I believe it will maybe happen and it will be the best product you've ever seen because it has to be right and that's me like with Anole the hair is gonna shake every time this wig is four years old that I can't I just I keep watching it honestly it's like it's like it's incredible incredible but that this is it I'm so big on quality like the the hair itself I've been working with my vendors for years before I even thought of making the business I've been buying directly from them so I know they're good I've met with them their products are incredible it's sustainable they do things the right way and I love them but for me it was like I can't bring out a beauty product right now because I don't think that I have something that I can add to this industry that hasn't been done before and it's going to give them something completely which I love it's really honest and it's really kind of like I love that you're you've left your ego at the door there and said like you know what what am I going to do at the minute that is different to the incredible stuff that's happening but hey guess what I can do a lot you trip on yourself if you've got too much ego i am so real like also my whole thing is like it as a makeup artist i'm always in the background i'm used to like making other people the star and like making them look good and feeding their ego because in that moment i don't need to have the biggest ego i don't need to have chest i don't need a million compliments today when it's my time you're gonna know about it yeah and i'm gonna do my flex and do my big one but i understand that in order to get ahead sometimes you have to humble yourself and look at it from a bird's eye view that's if I would have like brought out a makeup brand in this moment in my career would it have been the best move I don't think so I don't think I'm there yet I don't think I have anything to add that's like for my name it would be nice Albanisha Wartings got on that's cute but I'm telling you what I want to do that's led by ego and that's why you can't really think especially when you're trying to make business decisions you can't think with your ego preach because that would have fed my ego but it would have lost me money or it would have stopped certain things that are thriving right now for me whereas with this I was like I'm about to really give you some good hair yeah in the nicest way you're so smart honestly I love it I love to see it if Benicia if we were to sort of sit down in two years time say and we're like you know like you say we're we're talking at the start of April you launched in November so we're in that gorgeous like honeymoon phase of the business well you know you're really seeing the growth in certain areas and figuring out what might be next if we were to sit down again in two years what would how would you like the conversation to go what would you like to say Enola is doing or you know where would you like to see Enola in the next couple of years in the next couple of years I would want to see Enola being sold everywhere I'd want Enole to be one of Netoporta's first hair brands yes that's what we need we need that premium delivery same day delivery thank you Enole I need the frontal and I need it now yes Enole having so many more textures at the moment we're actually developing our own yakky textured hair which kind of emulates black women's natural you know afroist type hair which is very exciting I'd want us to have like a full product range so we're working on our product range now I'm doing a lot of talking right now no no come on I'm getting it we're working we're working on we're working on a lot of really exciting things so those products being launched us being sold all over and just the business being in a place where you know at the moment we've been really unfortunate the people who are working with us in terms of like influencers and everything like that they're all women that some of them are buying the product themselves some of them are like we've got so many people actually creating content without us even having to ask them to and so many women that see the vision and they're like we want to support we're not gonna you know do the most when it comes to whatever like they're really supporting I want to get to a position where I can pay everyone lots of money that they deserve, have the business at a point where we're able to give back in a major way.

45:34Like one thing we did this year that I was so proud of us about was we actually, with the model Nilly that I spoke to you about, and she's had cancer and she has her own charity, we were able to give her charity like a few of our Benicia Bobs. Those types of things I'd love for Nona to continue giving back and like kind of pulling everyone up as we're growing as well.

45:55Rochelle: so incredible incredible and who would you say if you were thinking of like your dream retailer if you were like okay that would be a real moment for me if we're stocked here that would be like bucket list net of water because i live on the website yeah i live on net of water if you were to go into any store okay if i was to go into a store i would say selfridges just because selfridges has a very i feel like for me i love shopping beauty and selfridges yeah it's one of my favorite things it's such a good destination isn't it it's a really good destination i think it's cool it's like trendy it's edgy i think it has a lot of personality and i think selfridges is definitely ready for black hair extensions brand with a big personality i think there's something about selfridges that just gives it that gold star like there's almost something you just feel like it's that is a moment yeah it's like selfridges is it's cool it's fun like you know you're gonna go into selfridges there's gonna be a dj in there you'll be dancing like it's a vibe it would be a moment for the brand in in a way of like wow they understand what we're doing here like this is selfridges this is our leading department store 100 and you know with the price point of enole it is a little bit more luxury premium luxury so it needs to sit in that premium space and that's that's exactly let's put it all out there to the universe i want to do a rocket round now yes um which i love i ask all of our guests the same eight questions the first one is i mean this is supposed to be quick fire round so let's see how we get on normally that normally we waffle for a little bit um what are the non-negotiables for running a business do you believe non-negotiables you need to know your product inside and out you need to know your product inside and out and secondly you need to know who you're speaking to who is your target audience how does she sound how does she look where does she eat how does she want to be put together in what tone of voice will she listen to me so I think as a business have a product that's undeniable a product that adds value a product that gives your customers a return on their investment and then know who you're selling to know them like you know your best friend yes Yes.

48:16Rochelle: Very, very good advice. When did you first realise that you were truly onto something with Anole? Was there a particular moment that you were like, this is connecting? Yes. Two weeks after we launched, I launched the Benicia Bob, which is one of my favourite units that we do at Anole. Well, it's our first wig that we've actually launched. But the reason I knew after that point was people were instantly obsessed with it. and we sold out first day in 20 minutes I want to say all of the units went and I could not believe it and that's the moment I said this business has officially started we've got it we've got something yes and now it's how do we build on that and how do we add more to that and the reason I chose the Benicia Bob well first of all it's my namesake Bob yes but it's that is so you like it's so like it honestly is so you it's so chic it's easy to wear and it's a nice introductory wig if you're someone that's like I don't want the big long wig that's just gonna make me feel you know like I'm doing too much Benicia Bob is where you go and then also in terms of length it's not too much to handle so yeah it's just it's perfect it's like just cut to perfection as well it really really is um what is the first thing you do when you wake up and the last thing you do before you go to bed first thing i do when i wake up is i pray and then i snooze my alarm and pray that you can i'm like god please give me 10 more minutes i need half an hour more i snooze my alarm i put my shark led face mask on i'm obsessed with it yeah i don't go a day without it you know see this is going to turn into a beauty conversation which i love so i'm here for it sorry literally the reason the glow is happening there are three products is my shark face mask that has to start my day when I wake up.

50:05My vitamin C, Skin Suit Cause. Yes, I mean, this is the best vitamin C.

50:10Rochelle: C-Frolix, that one. Oh, look at you. I know, period. Me and that product go way back. I wish it smelled better, but I'm so used to it now. Well, I'm used to it, to be honest. And also, I feel like there's some skincare products that are just like, okay, boy, I'm not going to love this well. And it's great. And then what's the other one? My Estee Lauder, of course, my Advanced Night Repair. that goes on morning, noon, like any time I put in the skin. Well, it's infused with hyaluronic acid, number one. But also it's just one of those things where I can't live without it. I'm kind of addicted. I think I've been sleeping on that product.

50:42Rochelle: Really? Yeah. Okay, I'm factoring it in. Don't worry. I'll do you a little bundle. Don't you worry, queen. This is why I do this quick fire. And then to go to bed, I kind of do similar things. I do my LED mask as well at night. And normally my sister's going to laugh when I say this, But I'm that person that's worn myself out so much throughout the day that I'm like clearly sleeping off. And then Lisa will be like to me, Bea, are you sleeping? I'll be like, no, I'm up, sis. And then I normally get up, run to the bathroom, do my skincare and go to bed. Yeah, that's it. I love it. Yeah, the day's had its way for you by that point.

51:19Rochelle: Is there one piece of advice that you wish you hadn't listened to? Don't spend so much on your marketing. like you want to make loads of money before you start I personally think go big or go home obviously have it in mind save for it prepare for it but invest and present your business as best as you can because that first mover advantage is a big thing and also people remember you start as you mean to continue yeah so yeah I'm not saying don't go and like you know spend all the money in the world but invest invest where you need to be like you're saying you've got such a big product such an incredible product but it's only great if people know about it we had um aila moran on from merit and i think she gave such a good master class in marketing and the importance of it so i think so important for your point i just think it's a so important but there are obviously ways of not doing it on a huge budget and i think it is like you say knowing who that customer is and speaking to them in the right way yes and also taste is like really think about how you want this to land from every single angle um and yeah and how she wants to receive it as well it's so so important um what's a skill that you'd love to learn how to multitask oh gosh tell me when guys i can only do one thing at once if you call me and i'm on the phone to you and then something pops up on my phone i'll be like you'll be like talking to me like venice all you did and i'm just silent i'm like oh sorry what did you say yeah i'd love to learn how to do multiple things at once and I'm learning from my baby sister Lisa who does all of my PR and marketing and literally Lisa is one of the most intelligent people I've ever met and one of the people in my life that I feel like she can do five things at one time yeah and you know shameless plug here but she's the best in PR so I absolutely love my baby and I actually I said this to you before because she's sat the other side of the camera.

53:21Rochelle: And you guys are three and a half years between you both. And I love how close you are. So I'm like really hoping this is my girl's relationship. She's my big little sister. I'm three and a half years older than her, but Lisa, she runs the show. She really does. She's the boss lady. I just pray that my girls have the relationship you have because it's so special. So, so special. What would be the dream collab for Anole? day maybe uh an ambassador or like a brand on brands collab my dream collab and dream person to work with on an ole collab with a brand it would have to be nike because nike just do it has literally been the soundtrack to my life for the last i want to say 15 years since i started trying to hustle and sometimes going through my mind of like how am I gonna do all of these photo shoots and make content and I'm like Nike said just do it just do it yeah and then celebrity or someone huge that I'd love to see in Anole and work with them if I could have them as the face of Anole Queen Miss Angela Bassett oh she is a queen isn't she yes oh I love she's fantastic I just love everything she represents yeah me and my sister love her and we talk about her all the time she's just so poised she's a beautiful strong black woman and her hair's always eaten and she's just looked beautiful in every single 11 out of 10 11 out of 10 but also she's so much older than us and just look at her like i look at her and i'm like okay i'm not doing enough i need to hit the gym i just feel like stop all of this it's so true she's amazing she's giving us all a bit of a complex right yeah and then another person that i've also followed for years and i'm just obsessed with is taylor i just think she's fantastic oh she's i i see it i see these clubs happening yeah i feel like she would if you met her i feel like she would fall in love with the brand i actually well i saw her at the baftas and she said hi to me and i was like yeah love you babe oh my queen i love you so much but you know what i love and i think there's this kind of smart approach now and you'll know this better than anyone but we've seen like these smaller brands that have kind of launched and like grown gradually but had a real spike because they've been really smart in who they've gifted and who they've been around so we kind of we've seen it with a few of them where their tactic is to like for example there's that jewelry brand right at heaven mayhem who is founded by pia mance and she basically gifted hayley's stylist and her friends and went wanted hayley bieber to wear the earrings essentially and basically gifted people that she thought would see it on her and then by the time that she was ready to send a parcel to hayley she'd already seen it oh wow i think that's quite an interesting strategy i've heard her talk about it a lot there's the kind of there's that bikini brand that did the same with kendall their dream was to have kendall jenner in their bikini she was like up there for them so she sent it to all her friends and had it around people that she knows that kendall followed like it's really smart and then by the time it came to her she was like oh i've seen this because all of our friends have been right do you know what i love about you you are always going to give me some advice we're not gatekeeping don't you worry that's what this space is being taken yeah but it's smart though it's very smart i think that's fantastic and then there's the way that they like sort of track down the glam team and then i don't know for example you're doing my makeup i'm like where's that wig from it's insane and it's as quick as that because it's so it's so smart isn't it okay so there you go that's a different strategy um if you could choose this is our last one uh one female figure as a mentor past or present who would that be well i'm really fortunate to have a mentor like emma who is incredible we should also say this that you do Emma Greed's makeup.

57:18Yes, I do Emma Greed's makeup whenever she's in London. But even more than being someone that I do their makeup, she's become a friend and a big sister and someone that... Emma is someone that I would say she's exactly who she said she is. When she talks about, you know, being someone that supports the next generation of business women and especially like us both being from East London, the amount of TLC she gave Anole in those early stages, the questions that I was like, oh, I shouldn't ask this to big Emma Greene. She's going to think what kind of crazy question. And she'd be like, no questions small.

57:53You ask me anything. And she'd answer with like just the best tips. She's so generous with her knowledge and time. She's so generous and so kind and just an absolute queen. And I love her. So you've got her on speed, darling.

58:07Rochelle: You don't need another mentor when you've got Emma Greene. When you've got Emma Greene, you're good. This is very, very true. um and every episode I like to sort of leave a tip to every listener so if a girl is listening to this or a lady listening to this right now and they're like oh my goodness I love what she has had the guts to do and I would love to do something in a similar vein or I you know I'm watching or listening along with admiration if you were going to leave a tip almost one piece of advice to somebody listening to this right now, what would that piece of advice be? My advice to you would be, number one, I've said it a million times, get up and do it, but milk it.

58:52As in, you're in this position right now because of who you are, the traction you've been able to build. And I'm in a way also speaking to myself. This position that we're in, even as women sitting here, you're an incredible businesswoman and you're known and you're loved and you're supported it's it's not that it's not always going to be like that but whilst you've got it whilst you've got the energy we're still young we're not in any pain we're not unhealthy in any way thank god milk it until you can't milk it anymore the opportunity you have in front of you right here it's here now take that opportunity and run with it like don't be shy don't be scared don't overthink what are people going to think the truth is your friends and the people that you actually know are not always going to be your customers when I look through when I'm looking at my Shopify and I'm like oh we did all that today how many of those are people I went to school with or how many of those are people that are like they are in America or they're here or they're like people who've never met me a day in their lives so don't be scared don't be shy create like you've never created before post like you've never posted before if you want to be known for hair post your hair tutorials until people think of you first when they think of hair when I started out and I was doing makeup some of my friends would be like right you post like five times a day and I'm like but now 15 years on are we exactly when people think makeup in the UK I'd like to think I'm one of the people who I thought of but it's because we've drilled it into their minds so don't be scared don't watch or overthink what people might think, just do you and stay tunnel vision and milk it.

1:00:34Rochelle: So Susan Yara, who founded Naturium. Love Naturium. She is honestly like someone that you, you need to listen to her episode. She's so inspiring. But one thing that she says is live in the cringe. Oh yeah. And I love it. She's like, do you think I care that I'm posting this much? Do you think I care? She's like, no, like live in it. If it feels cringe, like it's probably right. It's probably the right thing. Like live in that moment, make the most of it. and like grab it with both hands and of course we're going to do things that slightly sometimes you're like oh gosh is that a bit cringe don't worry about it yeah this is what i say to anyone that will listen like you can't watch what people are thinking saying whatever and i will repeat it again and again and again just do it number one and number two when you look through your sales it is not the people calling you cringe that are supporting you it's actually the people that saw what you posted guess what they didn't find it cringe and they didn't number one they didn't find it cringe but it moved them emotionally enough because a lot of people forget that I'm someone that I make emotional purchases most of the things I buy like I remember buying this top and I bought a few months ago and I was connected to it emotionally I love the draping on the side I knew it'd show off my bob and it would bring out my features and it was an emotional purchase it didn't matter how much I was spending and that's because of the way they marketed the product the video I saw of the woman wearing it and how she was positioned and the way she was connecting with the camera you have no idea what your piece of cringy content is doing for someone on the other side it might be building their confidence it might be making them think I have to make this purchase it might be making them start a conversation about you that will lead to your next sell so just do it and really don't care about what anybody thinks I love it I love it I love it and then lastly I love asking this question because we talk about ladies who launch but when it comes to ladies who lunch I mean you look like a very chic lady who lunches right now I have to tell you um how do you typically spend your lunch hour is that a thing are you just like it is what it is when you've got a sort of typical working day on an ole what's your go-to lunch where are you and what you eating oh okay I'll be honest um it depends on It depends.

1:02:51Every day looks very different for me. Some days, and it depends on what time of the month it is, but some days I want a big fat lunch. Oh, go on. So what's your big fat lunch of choice? Big fat lunch. I'll be honest, I'm so gunny and through and through. It's always going to be a bit of jollof rice and chicken. I love it. Jollof rice and chicken. When I'm trying to be good, I like the salad project. Oh, I like the salad project. When I'm being really demure. Yeah. Then I'll go and get my cute little salad. I'll get my green juice. or my matcha and I'm keeping it real demure. But it depends on the day.

1:03:24Some days I'm just like jollof shit or chicken. Hello, how are you? But yeah, I think food fuels you. I also do intermittent fasting, which is how I keep myself feeling and looking good. And also I find that when I am doing that, I enjoy my food more when I am eating, number one. And also I have so much more brain space. Because in the morning I'm not like, what am I going to have for breakfast? It's all about my good lunch.

1:03:49Rochelle: brilliant i think it's so good so good and i go through little waves of it and sometimes i do it without even realizing now you know like yeah the times and i think where i eat with i eat with my children quite early that sort of helps me stick to intermittent fasting without it being like a conscious decision but i do think it's really it's so amazing honestly for me i do mind like i start eating slightly later in the day but it's not just good because it keeps me in shape to some degree because i'm not the biggest workout there's only health benefits though but it's so many health benefits then it keeps my mind really clear and like when I want to achieve something or do something for a no lay or try and think of a new idea I need a really clear mind and I love that we need a clear mind right that is when when when the days are really daying we need a clear mind that will help us um thank you so much for coming in and talking about this I'm honestly I'm watching on I'm so proud and everything you want it to be it is and I just know it's going to keep growing at that pace because what you're doing is incredible and I think you do like you say you're someone that is a bit of an emotional purchaser and I think it's clear the emotion behind Anola is so crystal clear you've articulated it like to perfection and I'm such I'm I'm obsessed with marketing I'm obsessed with branding I'm always someone that notices those details and it's not lost on me.

1:05:14Rochelle: So I love it and keep going. We need to do it again. We need to meet up in a year and have a conversation again. You heard it, guys. Okay, we're back. We're going to be back. You're always back. You're always welcome here. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. I've loved it and congratulations. It's so, so good to see you. Thank you.

1:05:37Rochelle: Don't forget to follow us on Apple and Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts to make sure that you don't miss out because next time we're going to be talking to another incredible lady who launched. If like me, you're a watcher, then please follow us on YouTube and don't forget to like and subscribe.