Ep 8 : From Skincare to Social Impact : What is Sabrina Elba’s vision for inclusive wellness?

0:12Hi guys, I'm Rochelle Humes and this is Ladies Who Launch. Each episode will dive into the journeys of aspirational women who started from scratch and built their dreams into thriving empires. These are the founders, the risk takers, the go getters that are changing the landscape and making their mark in the world of business. We're here to celebrate their wins, dive into their challenges and share the invaluable lessons they've learned along the way. Ladies Who Launch is about sharing the inspiring stories that could empower you to take your own leap. So get ready to be uplifted by the resilience, creativity and unstoppable determination of today's most extraordinary women.

0:52This is your Girls Group Chat for business and beyond.

0:59My guest today has completely redefined the way we think about wellness and connection. Using her platform to make real meaningful impacts. She's a true leader, bringing together her passion for activism and business in the most inspiring way. please welcome to the podcast sabrina elba i'm so excited you're here thank you i'm excited i'm honestly so pleased we're doing this i feel like we get to see each other at events here and there and maybe talk to each other but it's never enough and never like you learn so much about somebody when you actually just sit down and talk through their life and there's no dinner long enough to be able to do this no and we like we've been saying we want to hang out this is going to be a there we go we've actually we've actually found a date that works exactly go us um I love starting these conversations with going way back when and I feel when you think about your roots I feel like that's how we find out how a person's shaped and for you where did it all start I know that it started in Canada yeah I'm a Canadian yes you are girl um tell me a bit about your upbringing in oh you know it's funny because people do ask that all the time like you know what but I am so far off from where I maybe thought I would be or planned I would be or the little town that I grew up in um which isn't that small but feels so small compared to London that I always think like it must have shaped me somehow but I may not have realized it as it was happening kind of thing yeah but I grew up in Vancouver Canada I was born in East Coast Canada which is like Montreal all my French is very bad so I left way too early and I've got like tons of siblings tons of cousins like a two brothers two sisters grew up with lots of family around me my dad passed away when I was quite young so it was my mom really like you know trucking along taking care of us and just getting by in this city and I was at uni thinking I was gonna do law and you know and then that was at the kind of the cusp where I decided to move to London because I'd met this boy and if you'd asked me before I moved you know what was I going to do or what were my plans I probably would have said something completely different so I always think it's interesting that we attribute so much to our early lives but life is never a plotted course you know it's always going to have like these bends around the corners that you didn't see coming and I know myself so much better now and I'm so much more comfortable with myself than I was in like you know my early 20s or whatever that's a tricky time to navigate your early 20s isn't it it is I feel like our generation was tough yeah because there was a lot I feel there's some grace given now to women at a young age in terms of you need to have your career and your marriage and your children all set by you know the time you're 20 like we used to say that when we were my generation used to say oh but it's 125 I'm gonna have three kids I'm like what yeah well and newsflash I used to say that and think oh my god you know this is it I want a young family and I did have a young family guess what I didn't know what the hell I was doing right you know what I mean and you're supposed to so that's the other thing you do do that and then you're like I don't understand how this all works and I'm still supposed to work and I'm a baby with a baby you're a baby with a baby in a sense right but I feel today there is although there's so many more challenges in terms of like social media and stuff for younger generations but there is somewhat more grace when it comes to don't rush to have anything because you feel pressured do it when it's right yeah do it when you want to do it right and I am thankful now I have kind of resisted my like African immigrant family calling for my marriage from the day I was like 17.

4:34It's so funny isn't it? It's so funny and that's also the same in West Indian culture it's like you settle down you that's you know you're raised to be a mother and to be a wife and to have this sort of flourishing family and it's not it doesn't look that way for everybody but that's kind of what you it's instilled in you that that is that's success yeah and it's funny because my uncle and aunties have backed off now because first it was me right and I was like I got married at 30 and then my cousins are like okay we're still pressuring them and then they're not married in their past 30 so I think they're like you know what we just give up we don't understand this generation please do give up please do exactly there's more in life it feels a lot easier when you give up but also if that's your choice it's your choice right it's it's the problem was that you felt it you were it boxed in to make a decision at a certain point in your life and I only say that to say that you know maybe that would have been more of my focus growing up in a small town like you know being around the guys that I've been around my whole life um as opposed to like let me move to London and let me actually travel and you know figure out what I want to do really because do I want to be in an office and at that point I was like probably not and do I have bigger desires than here you know and that's okay that I kind of want to see the world and I want to do things a little bit differently you said that you thought you were gonna pursue law which is so interesting I can imagine you as like a bad bitch ass lawyer I love that I feel like you would be like the powerful but friendly one you know the approachable lawyer and I was like super adamant about it when I was younger so I find it quite interesting that I you know did a bit of a turnaround because I only did philosophy or my bachelor's in philosophy because it was good for the LSAT right like right okay so I sort of planned my life in that trajectory but I think once I started to understand a bit more about what uh you know the typical lifestyle of a corporate lawyer would be you know long office days and I just didn't feel that that was necessarily me I wanted to move to Toronto I was like I just I know that there's more to the world than Vancouver and Vancouver is an amazing city it's still my favorite city in the world but I just had this urge to like explore first and I'm so glad I did because I realized very quickly that actually I'm an entrepreneur.

6:44And I think that's why I was kind of impatient with the idea of doing one thing. It's because I love the idea and the flexibility of being able to do, okay, well, I wanna do this. And if that does well, then I wanna do this. And then I wanna do this. And also, and I think there's so, we were talking about grace before, but there's so much more grace with that now too. Because I think when I was younger, even when it was, I was, I love performing, right? And I'd go to singing lesson and I knew that I wanted to perform at that time. but you everyone wanted you to pick it's like do you act do you sing do you dance I'm like I quite like doing all of it right and I remember that being quite kind of oh okay you want to give it all a go I'm like well why not let's see what sticks yeah I think it's kind of it's it's we're in a world now where people are really embracing the idea of being an entrepreneur and I think that feels so freeing yeah exactly that and you're like literally the definition of that and I can't imagine when you were younger like it must have been like all lights on all the time and like yeah I just want to do it all you know there was yeah but you also there's pressure to like do it all really well yeah without being able to kind of stumble and learn you know what I mean whereas I'm like very thankful I had lots of stuff there's a reason that I didn't pursue acting let me tell you honestly I'll believe it when I see it you don't you do not want to see it it didn't it didn't ever see the light of day did you ever feel we talk about raising a family and having that kind of background that really wants that for you and that kind of you know marriage and you know the pressure of that did you ever feel pressure to pursue a certain career were your family really wanting you to be a lawyer yeah I think that's definitely where that came from because people will ask you know well why do you want to do that I'm like because my mom told me I had to you know there was a little bit of that like my sister was going to be a doctor I was going to be a lawyer my brother was going to be an engineer she had decided that for us but I think also I mean law was always attractive in the sense that first of all mid through this philosophy degree like I was loving it and I loved the idea of arguing being you know a type of science and and how you could look at it almost mathematically to you know what you do in logic throughout philosophy is you put an argument in in steps if you do a and then b you'll most likely get a is a winner of that conversation or whatever that is right and I loved that and I still to this day like Idris will be the first to tell anyone she loves to argue and it's not because I love to argue I just love to see the logic and find the logic and things and I'm like what does that really make sense?

9:05I don't know if you're going to win this one. I could picture you two have an argument and you've got your like clipboard out. I'm like, well, this is A. A's going to get us to see here, Idris. So keep up. To have the sort of journey you've had and to be where you are now. I suppose it's something that you could have never predicted. What was your first job when you had this idea of law and that was pressure from the family? My first job was a bit weird. Okay, this is like, you're you're not asking like my like you wanted my first first job this is so funny so I was always a taller young person you know like I was told to my class and I'm like I'm just a tall girl like I'm 5 '10 everyone always asks me how tall I am um and I looked older because of that especially like I feel our generation like you know it's not like we were all in makeup and everything like we all looked like babies but height made a big my daughter's like this she's like by far the tallest girl in her year and it ages her probably a bit right doesn't it so I had someone approach me and ask if I would consider buying like it was this big gas station chain called Esso and if I would consider going to the gas stations and buying cigarettes and saying I forgot my ID to see if they would sell it to me to stop people selling cigarettes to underage that is so interesting that's so weird that is so I love this though I mean there's a job in anything guys why would I But it's funny because I always think like that job put in my head that I was an adult.

10:33I'm an older person and I can convince people. And I got really good at convincing people that I was like 21. So you would go into these stores and basically buy cigarettes? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I got away with it a lot, which is, you know, it's not, it's not, it's not a good thing. But it's funny because I do realize that it put this kind of, I can be an older presenting person and maybe I need to carry myself a certain way. And I think I always did that. And without, you know, realizing why. And it probably was a part of it is because I was training to do that at an early age. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy.

11:08It's weird. I did not know that job existed, which is like brilliant. It's a job. It's like, it'd be the equivalent of a secret shopper, right? Yes, of course, like a mystery shopper. Yeah, like a mystery shopper. So that's your first job, which obviously you're - You weren't expecting that. Yeah, but I've also, I love it. I absolutely love that. then you find yourself on a flight to London obviously a lot has happened yeah and I also bounced around in school but like I did do like before I went into uni I did art school and I loved exploring creative sides to myself like you know when it was there's an Emily Carr Institute in maybe which is a national treasure Emily Carr anyways but we got to explore different kinds of paint and and different mechanisms and and acting and I mean we there was even singing a bit like Like I'm a terrible singer.

11:57But anyways, I got to like kind of, you know, explore what creative Saab looked like. And I found that really fun. And I was kind of at this point where I was like, oh, I think, do I want to do a bit of that? Do I not? And when I was in uni, I had an agent, Ryan at the characters, like shout out to Ryan, who got me some gigs and some little commercials and things, which I also found really fun. So I think I knew what I wanted to do, but I also knew that there was a side of myself that I hadn't quite explored yet. Okay. So I'm on this flight. I'm going to London. I'm thinking if it doesn't work out, I just go back.

12:30Like, mom, can I sleep on your couch? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's okay. I gave up my apartment. And yeah, and it would be okay. And also this idea of like being with someone who, you know, is in the industry. I thought, well, is he really going to like me? I don't know. Like I never, it took me a moment to kind of find my self-worth. And that feels so shit to say, but it's an honest thing to think. I thought somebody in the industry or somebody who was doing that well wouldn't necessarily be interested in somebody like me who didn't even know what path I was gonna take yet um but anyways you know we are here now because we did fall in love very much in love and I got to in that time which I'm so thankful for explore all these different sides of myself like I think I've tried just about everything I've wanted to try but that's so so incredible and do you feel like you know meeting Idris and you guys being in the relationship that you're in do you think that changes trajectory together like having somebody that believes in you sometimes more than you believe in yourself yeah it's like the confidence boost you need oh my gosh yeah and I didn't even I would have thought myself quite a confident young woman yeah um but I definitely had and when I moved to London extreme self-doubt like I found myself constantly picking apart what I was doing I kind of lost my sense even my fashion sense to a degree like I didn't know who I wanted to be there was a lot of floral in London when I first moved to London I was not a lot of floral in Vancouver I was like am I supposed to wear florals yeah that's very British isn't it that ditzy print that yeah yeah right there's a lot of that and and Vancouver is like vans and palace and like skatewear and lululemons lots of lululemons right so I found myself like just this period of rediscovery and someone who was so confident in me and saw something in me that I didn't see in myself at that time and I needed that in my life at that time I'd also just come out of a bad relationship which what that does to your character and your confidence I mean you know right it just knocks it and I thought okay I don't really know what I'm doing I'm lost I'm traveling and I've got this angel in my life who's just like you can do anything what do you mean you want to do it try it and I was like okay but it's such a refreshing outlook when at the time it feels like you're risking it all you know you're getting on a flight you're giving this a go and for somebody to just say you've got this yeah and actually looking back I was investing in myself taking that time to travel and get to know myself and meet a new person and fall in love these are all self-investments and self-investment is so important and I can think of it now like that being a business woman like investing in yourself is just as important as investing in business or an opportunity because at the crux of it you are what's going to lift it up make or break it right you are the brand absolutely and i look at that now as a form of self-investment and i i got to experience things i may not have otherwise been able to being able to travel with his schedule and you know for me it was great like he's like oh i got to go to berlin for two days I'm like lovely I've never been let's do it and it was such a valuable time in my life especially doing it with somebody who was so supportive and made me feel like if I fell I'd have a life support system underneath me yeah and that wasn't necessarily something I could do when I was younger because we grew up you know we weren't wealthy in any way like my mom was a single mom raising five kids so you can just imagine that safety net necessarily wasn't there everything has to stretch doesn't it everything has to stretch and if I were to mess up it would mean maybe I can help my mom pay rent that month or you know like there was a lot of pressure on us to just get by as a family unit from a very young age so being in a position where I was like I don't have to worry about anyone else right now I'm kind of like on my own and you know I'm doing this with a partner who it was just a very different place for me yeah it allowed me a of freedom that is so privileged and I feel so honored to say that and like it just was a form of expression that I wouldn't have been able to do if I didn't have that kind of mechanism around me let's talk about your love for skincare and how your baby was born because I mean you have the most incredible skin I was gonna say you can't see this right now but of course we're on YouTube too so you're yeah zoom in check your skin oh no do honestly you have the best skin i've ever seen coming from you i'll take it as a compliment because everyone knows how good your skin is mine's very mine's very menstrual today no it's not it's not looking it's looking quite bad but it's funny you say my love for skincare i always think it's funny when i hear that now because i do love it don't get me wrong but that love stemmed from a frustration yes almost a hate like i was at the point in my life where i had really bad acne as a teenager and then i had like a nice grace period when i was like i turned 20 and i was like oh it's gone my whole mind just settled yeah everything's worked out and then 26 bang it was back and i was like it's so cruel i was like oh i forgot about this don't tease me i know give me the good stuff exactly we grew up with like the neutrogenas and the clear cells and the say knives apricot scrub do you remember what that was doing.

17:46Oh my gosh I remember that so well. And I was at the school of thought scrub it off like you know and I was doing so much damage to my skin and I'd go to a derm and I'd get some really strong benzyl or some trap right away and like my skin's super sensitive and that was really inflammatory for me and then my hyperpigmentation was like through the roof so I was at the point where I was like nothing works I hate everything but I'm not gonna give up I'm gonna figure out why my skin is going through what it's going through and it wasn't until I actually had some deep dive thinking time which was COVID that was that that did that to us I like to look at it like that was some deep dive thinking time and I did some research oh yeah proper eating time for me I enjoyed that I don't remember I don't know if you remember but I was on Instagram live like making banana bread and like cooking every day yeah I was eating all that stuff I was cooking do you know what I was pregnant at that time so it was just like and I was like I'm eating for two it was a whole thing yeah yeah I was I was embracing that banana I hadn't even thought about like going through pregnancy at that time oh my gosh you know it was a lot it was that was my last pregnancy and it was actually my favorite because I actually gave myself a bit of grace because the world had sort of shut down as much as I was scared because it was like if you're pregnant you were more likely to catch COVID and die it was basically the headlines and then also So if you were of a black background, that ratio went up.

19:10Yeah. So it was scary. I didn't leave the house. Literally, I didn't go to the, Marvin did all the supermarket. Right. Like I didn't leave, but I just ate. But it probably gave you some time you otherwise wouldn't have had. Yeah, exactly that. It gave me time and it gave me a bit of grace to just be like, lay flat on the sofa. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that sounds nice. It was quite nice. Sometimes I'm like, I kind of could do with a little bit of that. Just a mini one. We don't want it. We don't want it. Just a mini chill. We can't go back. um so at that point i started doing some research and looking at what my skin specifically needed so i knew i was dealing with these dark spots so this is a point where skincare was slightly becoming more democratized and in the sense that i could go on youtube and i could do some like really really rudimentary studying right like okay this is called post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation i know that now why am i getting post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation just looking at what the difference was that you know with melanin rich skin that my friends would have a spot you know who had less melanin on their skin and it would go away within a week and i'm like how does that make any sense why do you only get in the dark spot afterwards yeah and it just like triggered this real urge to just understand skin as a whole so i'm going through this deep dive and i come to realizing that melanin rich skin actually does need a little bit more care like our skin is bougier i always tell people it's a little bit drier it can lack ceramide so it just needs a little bit of extra love yeah it needs some extra hugs with these with moisturizer and you know and ceramides and peptide chains and all the good stuff that everybody else can benefit from so if you make skincare with melanin rich skin in mind you actually get skincare that's better for everyone this is what it fascinates me because i'm like how how has nobody got that memo yeah like how what you know how's it taken you to think of this yeah well i'll tell you why because it is cheaper to formulate for a smaller group of people if you have a group of people who need more you can leave them out and save on your bottom line and formulate for people who need less right so in a way we have been seen as niche which is just wild and not worthy of a proper formulation which to me was really upsetting because you know there are ingredients and solutions out there there's skincare ingredients that do work you know your retinoids your niacinamide all your tyrosinase inhibitors and the good stuff that can really help with our issues but they're only in a dark spot serum you know it's only after the fact and in fact everything else that is in the range leading to that dark spot serum is kind of like a trigger for the inflammation which then is a cyclical cycle of us like damaging our skin and then trying to treat it with a dark spot remover so i was just like can't have any of this so i recruited a friend okay i love this okay great this is a good business tip is you know everything's better in pairs two heads are better than one and i genuinely believe that agree more and i found it quite overwhelming so i said to my friend jessica who i think you've matched makeup artist yes yes yes yes um and she was working at tom ford and she was doing like sales for north america at the time and i was like you're like my big shot skincare friend you know can you work with me i love that and she was like what the hell are you doing what does this mean she's also blonde haired blue eyed so to me i was like if it works for you right and it works for me we've cracked the nut on something we're on to something and we just got super passionate together and that was kind of what snowballed into us creating this range which we call a melanin inclusive range because people ask us all the time does that mean it's only for black skin see that's this this is what kind of like it goes back to the point that you were saying before no no no if you make it for guess what it's gonna help everybody yeah exactly it's not rocket science it's like having damaged hair shampoo you know like when you buy the shampoo that's for like the brittle hair yeah everyone can benefit off that shampoo it just means like your hair might not be as damaged but just means it's got some extra good stuff in it right so we went around telling people that melanin inclusive doesn't mean it's only for melanin rich skin it means that it is inclusive of melanin rich skin so it considers the needs of all skin types yeah and that you're right we were like why aren't people doing this and we felt kind of like industry disruptors in a sense to to put that as our tagline and you know it's on the bottles now and I was just so excited and I don't think I've ever become so passionate about something so quickly and I think you know I'm an esthetician now and I get so excited about skincare but it stemmed from a real place of like I hate skincare so but I think that's what everybody that I speak to and every woman that sat in this chair their passion comes from a problem solver so it you know a problem they want solving turns into a passion like you say you actually love skincare at one point in your life because you just didn't feel it was right but now your love comes there's an excitement and a passion for fixing yeah you know fixing a gap that that now isn't there because you exist which came with also like a massive sense of responsibility because I felt like the second I started hearing other people say oh my gosh I get that that's me that's my skin I was like well I better get this right I'm like sure I'm better doing justice because there's a lot of girlies like me who have felt underrepresented who have felt marginalized by the beauty industry and the wellness industry as a whole because I remember even starting on this journey trying to figure out how I fit into the wellness space yeah it's not a lot of people that look like us in fact you're one of the beauty influencers one of the only beauty influencers who I felt represented by um at the time where I was like you know looking through stuff because there's just not enough representation in the space I couldn't agree more I couldn't agree more and it just doesn't at some points you do feel like okay I really base it on like events that I go to we're lucky we get invited to lots of different beauty events and I'm noticing a change I'm noticing a shift I'm noticing we're seeing different faces but for a while particularly I don't know five plus years ago it was like the same faces yeah and you know and I knew there would probably only be me that looked the way that I did in that room yeah yeah which I think is really interesting at the way that the dial is shifting slowly yeah but it is but it is shifting now it's true you go to a yoga class 10 years ago yeah you know I don't think there was any we would have been the only yeah and something has shifted and I think a lot of that is representation of people who exploring wellness looking different way like it's wellness is an eastern philosophy right give giving girls the confidence to know they're not going to be the only girl in that room I think there's also that because there's events that you know I'm sure a lot of women wouldn't show up because they're going to feel like they're on their own you know I think it's really important to make sure the whole room feels inclusive yeah it's true and I think that that means being inclusive of the different cultures and the beautiful mosaic of what that looks like because even at the time when we started the brand, I became really passionate about trying to give narrative to ingredients that I felt were really appropriated.

25:51Because my mom's telling me, and I've been watching my mom for ages use turmeric and kassel and all these amazing African ingredients on her face, and then seeing them at Whole Foods, without the faces or the names or the stories of the people who not only farm the ingredients, but have given the ingredients this sort of generational heritage that's been passed on and this ancestral traditions that have been passed on. So we wanted to like reclaim the stories of those ingredients. And you'll see like on throughout our packaging, we put African hero ingredients on the front. I didn't want to hide them in the back in the formulation.

26:24I'm like, I want people to know what Moringa is. I want people to know what Baobab is. I want people to know what Qasla is, an extremely important ingredient to Somalis, you know, and give it that light because that representation, even from like the words, all of it matters. The faces, the words, the stories. We need to speak and understand each other in ways that, you know, we may have been closed off before because it's so important. Exactly. And the only way to do that is storytelling. And you do that so well. I know it's on your socials. You're really passionate. You really know, but you feel really you buy in because you're you're so inclusive and you tell that story so, so well.

26:59How how did it look for you? Because I know that you you recruited your friend and now you are this dynamic duo. but what I love and what I think you've done so well is making sure that it's genderless which I think is is very hard and I can only imagine the conversations how did it look in your house because I know that you and Idris are in this together I feel like it's definitely your baby but you're you're in this as a team right yeah how is that something that's hard to agree on because I can only imagine going okay this is a product that I want us both to use and both both of us to feel equally as passionate about how did that look no you're laughing because he well because you know i'm laughing genuinely i'm thinking of that that video it was like a viral tiktok video where this girl walks into her bathroom and her husband's left a few hairs on the bathroom sink she's like why did they do this what a slob look at this guy and then she keeps walking and her side of the bathroom's like products everywhere we can cope with that mess the beard hair not so much the beard hair oh no grim i actually did buy one of those like beard hair blower like a leaf blower for the beard because you can't get them and they stick they stick i'm like you turn the tap on we could do a whole episode on these beard hairs seriously glad it's not just um but so that was interest aside like he had no product stealing my products by the way i don't know if i'll ever admit to it but i'm like why is my like do that the mare empty yeah yeah like i don't use the worst for me is that my husband will still like i'll have really nice shampoo and conditioner in the shower yeah and he'll like just get it out and put it he's got a bald head he had no not a hair not a hair on his head and you're taking like my like high you know hydrating intense shampoo that i pay extra for to look up to make my hair glossy you got no hair yeah that's too funny yeah that'd be like you're just using my conditioner on his body it's not body wash but i i kind of this is what i loved okay so i'm getting into this you know love of the science and everything behind skincare and we're formulating this brand we're at the very start and he goes what's a toner you don't need that well i don't want that i would never use that i'm like uh-huh he's like what is it tone the color of your skin i'm like oh what and it's just all these like really basic questions like why do you need to use six things why can't you use three i'm like yeah yeah it was almost like this unlearning i had to do of like the marketing that was out there and things that we've been told to do and i was like okay you know you've got some really interesting point you want to step in the meeting here yeah yeah yeah and he had some like really brand defining point like even when you look at how we formulate like we would never do a single ingredient formulation like and or we would never do first of all that's wasteful i think personally and why not mix that active with other actives that either help cushion it or help you know boost its efficacy that makes so much more sense have a maximum impact formulation and less steps yes right and then also inclusion should be at a level where you can use it twice a day they don't irritate your skin because this whole idea of like you use it like once only he was just like what what's up what is do this doing to my skin that it is so damaging it's like i can only use it once but it's also because we want that short-term gain and we don't think of skincare as lifestyle solutions you know and part of the thinking about us doing products that sort of help battle post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation i was like i don't ever want to give somebody a band-aid solution here's your dark spot put this on it and it's gone no this is about what are we eliminating from the range what are we adding to the range so that this provides a lifestyle for that consumer so that they can buy into a process that helps stop that you know inflammation coming up in the first place so that's like eliminating sensitizing ingredients and getting rid of drying alcohols and fragrances we don't need fragrances in skincare and these are a lot of things that he was saying to me in the beginning like you know it should be in a spray I was like oh my god it should be in a spray it's almost like you're so right when we think of skincare it can be really overwhelming it's so complex like my cupboard and my you know in my bathroom is actually disgraceful like it's bursting at the seams yeah I love trying it if I've seen something on Instagram guess what I'm gonna click the link and I'm just going to give it, that is me.

31:09And I wish I wasn't such a product junkie, but I am. But actually, I suppose what he's helped you do is simplify it. Yeah, men think efficiency. And streamline it, yes, yes. Whereas we haven't been conditioned to think efficiency in our skincare. We've been conditioned to think, I need more. Because we consume everything. More and more and more. And I suppose if you're not doing that, you're like, can't we just use this? Won't this one thing help? Yeah, exactly. And I loved that about him. So even the packaging, the way it's formed, like he always like, I want to find it in my gym bag. you know so we could pull it out and it's this long shape and and the brand sort of naturally evolved to be this genderless brand because skincare is skincare you know you know for men they can use our products they've gotten away with it for a long time like it doesn't need to be an invigorating or energizing or libido boosting product like it's just so salesy isn't it it becomes that tool to say okay exactly maybe i should buy this because this one's for men but yeah i mean the second he realized he didn't have to use like an astringent like alcohol after he shaves he was like you're right why am i burning my face off yeah we could do this together yes so this duo became a trio and it was you know sable was born and we didn't really know how passionate and how far we would get into it but as we were developing it we were having the time of our lives like this was like probably one of the best things i've ever done and people always say like business is hard business is hard but when it's fun well I was actually discussing this with another guest actually we were saying that actually business is really hard so unless you have something that you're completely passionate about yeah the thing that you're like no this is the why this is why I'm doing this yeah because that side of it can be hell yeah so you need to be able to make sure the fun is there somewhere at least on those days when it doesn't feel so fun you remember the fun yeah exactly and and it's also I think because we do if you're going to do business I think the best entrepreneurs are people who completely divulge or indulge themselves in whatever it is that they're pursuing like skincare just became my day and night like everything every moment was I'm gonna try that and I benchmarked everything so I was like I mean and I spoke to people and like put myself out there you know in a way that I probably wouldn't before like I was like I'm just gonna message Charlotte Tilbury I know her I love gonna be like yay Charlotte can I have some advice and you've you've got to do like when you're starting a business community is your biggest asset ask ask all the questions to all the people it is invaluable if you have the privilege of being in the proximity of somebody who has done it ask and that's such a good takeaway because I think we like you say you put yourself out there and the way that you say it you cringe don't you I know I'm asking her if she minds to give me a little bit of advice.

33:52But it's so important to do so and not having any embarrassment or leaving your ego at the door and just asking all the questions. Like, you know, I get messages with people asking me certain things. I never think, why are they asking me that? I'm like, oh my gosh, try this, do that. And it's kind of when you are somebody that is passionate and you're an entrepreneur, you actually love when people ask you those questions. And it feels quite a privilege that people see you in that light. You're so right. It is totally, but we never think about it when it's to us no I hadn't actually quite thought about that because I'm like pass it on give give give like please tell me what do you need but if I was a person asking I'd be like oh yes I'll message oh they're gonna hate me oh I don't know they're never gonna talk to me again like what no why do we think that they don't reply they don't reply exactly but you should just ask all the questions and I think I learned that early on like just to be a sponge in the room and ask because actually you know when you when your skill is people don't expect you to be good at everything yeah so when your skill is the creative which is what mine was and that kind of like execution of bringing a brand brand to light and you know fixing a problem that I felt wasn't there that's what I love everything else like I had to ask questions of okay what does this mean for shelf space like I don't understand this or under the light will this logo read it was all those questions that I didn't actually know the answer to because guess what I'd never done it before so it's okay to ask right no one's gonna think she's stupid yeah they want to hell it's so true and we had so many questions i mean down to being you know both philanthropists and humanitarians and working to fight climate change is like a side hustle yeah big side hustle girl i was like i don't also want to put more product out into the world how do i do this in a way that isn't going to contribute to this climate crisis like you know we had so many questions and what i didn't realize is when you are going into business or starting a venture you need to learn so many different sides of the business you know whether that be the finance or the creative was actually something that i found quite difficult like how do you market this past being a celebrity brand which we hated the idea that being boxed into it is so frustrating and i was like i want this creative to speak for itself without having to lean on images of us and in the beginning there was a bit of that and it was like no we don't even have investors this is self-funded family owned you know this isn't the what people are calling a celebrity brand they're calling it that because there is a lack of celebrities that's that's that's where it stops but I also think that's turned into a term to express oh they don't really know what they've launched they've just launched to put their face behind something and we're like we are so not that you know it's the worst pushback for me that is the thing that I'm just like oh and it was really important to me probably the same with you that it wasn't and I got advice at the time people people were like you should call this baby by Rochelle Humes and I'm like right no because it's not this is bigger than me I want this this is its own it's you know it needs its own existence this isn't about I don't I'd actually love it when people say to me oh my gosh I've used this for years I didn't know this was yours exactly that's the biggest compliment to me so it was almost like people were being told no you can only launch business if you're not in this category you're not in the like you know and it was like everyone should be able to launch anything they want as long as they do it with integrity and they do it because they're passionate about it then it doesn't matter who launches it if they're providing a solution or they see a white space that is the point of this world like if somebody feels creative and they want to fill a gap do it like you know that's how we get some of the best contributions to society is when people feel they really have something meaningful to give so it's it's a bad idea to think let's just like tell certain group of people they can't launch things or you know and I understand that people are frustrated and why it's gotten to that point is because they're frustrated with people who do put brands out yes we don't have to name them all but people like Brad Pitt I'll put it out there you know who launch brands who may not necessarily care about the brand or the industry that they're launching right into and then it becomes this sort of ingenuine relationship between the founder and the brand that the audience can see through right away and i think that's what it is right there like you know we are in 2025 people can see through something that is just an ad and just an op versus something also i really like brad like don't we love brad i love you brad but like come on come on come on now but you but you can you can see it you know if it's something that is sincere and you know if it's so ingrained in somebody and I think that is what is so visible to you yeah and I think your choice of words to the press shouldn't be I don't really care about this but I've done it you know and that actually can be quite damaging to people who do want to launch and have done it with the right passion and the right integrity and haven't just put their face to something because they really wanted to and actually when you're talking about the beauty industry and people always say oh my gosh so many celebrities have launched beauty but they're people who glam all the time who understand products who need to take care of their skin like you know sometimes you can get some really valuable insights so and and you know it goes hand in hand like you say and they're also surrounded by industry experts and leaders yeah exactly have access to the right information so i think also i'm gagged that we're putting me in this category can I just say that you are fully in this category do I get to be a celebrity isn't it just the worst word too it's the worst word I cringe every time anyone says it funny isn't it what does your day because I'm always interested in this because I mean I'm sure I I probably can predict your answer and tell me how varied it is but what does your day-to-day run in look like of the business what do you do what are the break down the roles for me and how it works yeah so I am the acting CEO of the brand so I will do all the you know coming in which balancing is being a founder CEO that's a bit different because you're coming in you're contributing to almost all sectors right you're giving your sense on what the creative should look like helped helping dictate the marketing calendar everything from the socials to what are the you know the data what what are we getting back from our emails like I mean it is really the day-to-day running and it just can come in and also help from a creative perspective and say you know I think the brand should lean more this way or I think this will be a bit more disruptive but it's interesting being a founder CEO I found because you're also expected to not only guide the company to a success in terms from a business standpoint but also from a cultural standpoint because you are the face of the brand and for me watching other founders in that space doing that I've always been like massively impressed by people like Haley and like you know say what you want but she's built this massive oh you can't argue with industry and how she's been able to kind of shape culture and her brands doing well at the same time like generally those would have been two different things the founder feeding in and then you have the CEO running the business but Haley's like all hands on deck on her business and I don't think enough people know that about her but she's really in the rooms and living in that space is a lot of pressure but I love it I I think to be able to kind of have your word be, you know, this is what I want to do.

40:49That kind of ricochet effect. Yeah, the ricochet effect is really, it's exhilarating actually. But also on the flip side, it's all encompassing. It's all encompassing. In a way that you can't escape. Yeah. And I actually have had to try and figure out how I fit into the brand because I don't also want to be necessarily the face of the brand. Like Hayley has done an amazing job with Rochie is the face of the brand. in a sense like we never wanted that for sable because i think there's so many faces that i wanted to represent like mine is like the least of it you know and like it was just it was a different concept like it wasn't like look like me it was this is for you and people who look like me you know like this is for all of us this is for us um so how i had to try and think to to separate yeah that's a really hard that's really hard because the problem is you have found that problem so of course it's you but it's for people like you so how do you do that what's the strategy okay i'll sit back yeah well no i say that sigh comes from i don't know if we fully discovered it yet and we are still a baby brand but for me it was like the brand's always going to be about the faces of the people who we look to serve and whether that is you know the melanin inclusive face the face of the guy who doesn't really understand why he's using the skincare but someone bought it for him which is another thing to say about dendless brands right women will be buying products for men that is you know men aren't necessarily going to the website and buying it so it's you're genderless but you are always kind of in the majority of the women's space yeah and then selling selling to men alongside right that is a very hard thing which you pointed out to do um and then you know it's a woman who didn't know what melanin-inclusive skincare was maybe she looks like jess she wants to try something new like it's just sort of highlighting all those different faces and we do like the sable face series we love to like shoot gorgeous faces as you would for any brand but highlight them as being part of our community as opposed to being our models right if that makes sense so something that we really want to do is invite our customers to come to our photo shoots oh love that and i think yeah and i think like for us why why wouldn't we actually highlight the community and a lot of the models who we have approached are people who use the products yeah right um so it's just this difference in thinking of it's aspirational still but aspiration in a way because you feel like you're part of a community that is changing the narrative and growing as opposed to community you want to be part of yeah I think so and for us community has been everything like and I really felt it when we went to this gorgeous event called Black Beauty Beat in the UK which you probably may have heard of now and I was like we had this booth and I was like oh my gosh you guys like we're next to like Fenty and Hourglass and like Mac and like massive brands is this worth the investment you know I do want to do it we did last year was great we were like the busiest booth and because events like that what they're really good at doing is highlighting community and what the brands who have served the community the community will serve back so for us like we know how valuable that is and we do awareness at the community level all the time like we haven't really invested in you know the big billboards and the ads and the guerrilla marketing on the streets because for us that investment comes into I want to throw a yoga class for yeah you know we're the same by the way my kids brown we don't we've never done we've never paid for out of house marketing ever yeah and I think obviously we've been beneficial that you know in the same way like you say you want to separate yourself but I've managed to use that to kind of elevate it which is a privilege but at the same time it's it's been about customer facing events yeah influencer events and when I say influencer it's not just like the celebrities and the VIP it's people that are customers and they are using the products I think like you say the community is there if you're giving to it it's going to give back it's going to give back and it's such a beautiful thing isn't it and like at the same time you're growing a loyal community yes because you're serving people continuously it's not just hey I'll see you once and then I'll never see you again it's no come to this event next time stay on our email chains we want to keep serving you because you have kept us and grown us to a degree how how do you handle new product development because this is always something that's my favorite is it is it yeah and I think it's something that really kind of evolves isn't it because when you start your initial range at the time you're like yeah this is it yeah this is everything this is this is what people need and that's that but then there always comes no no hang on now we need it's so funny how set on something you can be and then you're like no now this product has got its purpose oh it's so true when you're trying to streamline skincare for a community for every gender yeah and you feel like you've got it and you take those notes from idris and you're like we just need one of these how how does how do you make some money yeah how do you make some because it's kind of hard to grow because you're saying this is what we need but actually we want growth too yeah oh my gosh i love this conversation because we do actually talk about it a lot in house for us we launched with a three-step system and it was all you needed if it was all you wanted you know like to fight hyperpigmentation to fight inflammation for skin barrier support all these like lovely things encompassed in these three products the cleanser moisturizer toner so how we grew from there every product mattered we were never a brand of abundance we couldn't just put things right out to put them out but luckily we're not you know in a retailer that's pushing us to do that we're a small brand we don't have investors breathing down our neck so we could really take our time yeah and craft products and look at our NPD in a way that was really really considered um so we never launch anything without it being like tried and tested between all our friends our family like talking to our community which is another great asset in NPD and people don't think about that enough like sending samples out and things like not even in a way to market it on social just genuinely asking like is great yeah the focus group right the focus uh community and now I you know for me for instance the next product that we launched after that was the mask and I knew we needed a way to exfoliate because that was something that we were missing in our range and the mask to me was like my mom in a bottle like it was literally the thing that she wore on her face every day so I knew I wanted to from an African botanicals perspective highlight that product and we always go botanical first like for me and that's how we came to our serum at you know just this last february which was an okra serum and people were like okra how did you think okra would do in skincare and i'm like because these antioxidants are unbelievably powerful the ones that grow in africa are the strongest in the world because the climates are so harsh so it makes sense that we go and look and scour the content for these amazing ingredients so we always think what's that powerful antioxidant what are the hero antioxidants that are really going to make a difference to skin because i genuinely believe i mean especially us living in london all the pollutants and the aggressors outside yeah antioxidants is one of your most important forms of skincare it's one of the things that should be in every formula without a doubt so let's use african antioxidants they're super powerful so we get to sit and think and have these group meetings of like did you hear of this one did you hear of this one oh my gosh my auntie our favorite thing to say because the aunties know yeah aunties are right and actually doing this Our tagline is always like incorporating some sort of, you know, idea around tradition or preserving tradition or like auntie's always right.

48:06Mom's always right. Or not your auntie's okra. Like these are things that we've incorporated. That's my friend. Because we genuinely have these conversations of like, oh, what did she say? Like, oh, that ingredient? Oh, I haven't heard of that. And we love formulating around that. And we've got like some amazing ingredients that we've got coming out down the pipeline. But then it's also intentionally when's the best time to launch those, as you know, right? on the calendar from not only an economic standpoint in terms of what can we when can we afford to launch it but also uh you don't want to be too behind in trends you want to you don't want to feel like you're following you want to feel like you're changing things and being disruptive in the market like i mean these are my favorite conversations and i think luckily in our niche kind of way of formulating we're always going to feel like disruptors because we're using ingredients and putting them on the front of bottles that people are like huh yes what's that and i think also thinking in this way of efficient skincare and everything matters really does allow us to put the proper integrity behind these products and it's so well thought out like everything from like how are those actives going to feel when they're cushioned with these like even our toner is a great example like i know vitamin c and e and fruolic acid is kind of like the holy grail but because vitamin c is cushioned by vitamin e and then fruolic acid boosts its efficacy like these are ingredients that should be formulated together because there's so much better formulated together so we sit and have these amazing benchmark conversations we get to go to africa find the communities that we source the ingredients from because it's so brilliant which is also so fulfilling because for us like you know we never wanted to contribute to a supply chain that was damaging to communities and people and now we get to show brands there's another way to do this sourcing you can get your raw materials in a way from you know that's sustainable from small communities and smallholder farmers because you're getting a better quality of cold press whatever ingredient yeah especially every farmer will tell you mine's the best right i remember we were looking for mongonga oil one time and it's like no ours is the best don't go to that community because they don't know but they put passion behind these ingredients and it's not just like third-partied and middled man by the time it gets to you there's probably child labor involved like no like these are the things it's 2025 like can we just not have child labor in our beauty products like just to make us feel more moisturized you know and these are things we become super passionate about as a brand and and all of those things contribute to our NPD and how we think and and progress and when we find a community that inspires us sometimes that's the cusp to think of a new product launch and I'm so excited for our next one we've been launching in April which is like my heartbeat it's like it's so exciting it's very exciting you know that new launch is coming up it's like you just live and breathe it until that moment and we're a little maybe behind on this one because everyone but this is our proper our community going why do you not have this why do you not have this okay okay we got it guys we got there it's coming exactly but i think like you say that is what is so liberating when you don't have that kind of pressure from a retailer or outside investment you can actually take your time and do something that you know yeah i don't think people realize how much retailers dictate trends um you know when you see all your favorite brands launch a blush at the same time there's a reason for that you know blush is really in yeah exactly and also that can be quite scary for young brands when a retailer could be telling other brands about your MPD you might have an amazing idea and then all of a sudden you see it's like five other brands are launching it at the same time it's because of you know there's it's because those conversations not just happening with you yeah this is that is a hard thing it's a hard thing to know but you know you set that off with the privilege of being in some of these massive retailers in terms of the football and the eyes on the brand.

51:48So, yeah. Yes, it is. It does. It's the balance of it all, but it can be, it can be amazing, but that can also be quite challenging. Yeah. I want to talk about something that is, I know is very close to your heart and I can tell that it's just weaved into everything you do with the brand and just, and you and both you and Idris. I want to talk about your, you being a Goodwin ambassador and how that came about. And I mean, it feels so obvious. when I hear you talk. Like I'm like, aw. Yeah. I mean, it's a big old deal. It is something I'm super passionate about. It's probably the thing that brings me the most joy in life.

52:20And it's funny because I watched my mom do, you know, like she's always an activist. She was always a philanthropist. And she'd go back to Somalia and she had the Hoya Marian Foundation from when I was very young where she'd bring water to communities who didn't have access to water. And I used to hate it when I was younger. I'd be like, why are you leaving for like two months again? Why are you leaving for like three months again? And like, she was just like, you know, we have to give back. You have to give back. And also she instilled in me this very strong identity of being a proud African woman and being one of the only black women in Vancouver.

52:54It's not very diverse. And the only black girl in my high school. I had to kind of fight the idea of, you know, the trauma porn that was on TV at the time, starving Africans and the such and show people, no, actually Africans are super hardworking. Like, just meet my family. you know like this is these stereotypes like no one's waiting for a handout people are never in these positions because they want to be you know people find themselves in these positions because of whatever has happened in the world and nine times out of ten when you're talking about the climate conversation and climate refugees this isn't even a problem that they created this is the global north contributing to a problem so heavily that it's affecting people in the global south to the point where they don't know what they're going to grow next year because the rains have changed so much you know like climate crises is happening in Africa like now so it was this really really wanting to change narratives about African people and then give back because I think if you're in a position to give back you always should so my mom was like a massive influence in my life and I'm really proud to be able to say you know I'm a goodwill ambassador now for an agency which I love and the IFAD which is the agency that I work with in in the UN you know they work with smallholder farmers and they believe that you know rural communities can be uplifted by agricultural practices because you're not just giving someone a handout you're teaching them how to take care of themselves to literally grow food off the land that they live on and that's invaluable you know knowledge for people when they don't know when their next meal is coming if you can grow your own food then you can build that up you can sell that and also showing the next young billion, which is going to be a massive population boom out of Africa, that the rural lifestyle is one of economic value and that you could go back and you don't have to go to these urban areas, which then lead to, you know, some of these climate change conversations that we're having.

54:44People want to see Africa transition, but it needs to happen in a way that doesn't make the same mistakes the global north has had, right? So we need to use the arable land and that just bleeds into so many things. I think that's why I was so passionate about that agency is agriculture is so much more than growing food. Of course, it's almost like you say, instilling that entrepreneurial value. Like it's kind of like it bleeds into that same conversation, changing the narrative. Yeah. And actually, I suppose the narrative that everybody else sets, which is kind of hard to fight because like you say, mainstream media, particularly when you were younger, make things like a completely different way.

55:22like people are waiting for handouts but when women can take care of themselves trust me they will they'll also take care of their children and the community behind their like that's on their back you know like people want to work and africans that i've met like the rural people across the global south in general like just want to work also when you get to talk about you know land rights and gender um opportunities for women in these agricultural areas like i a lot of times we go to some of these field visits and it's the women working with the kids on their back and i'm like where are the guys you know like women really do carry these communities and and it's true what people say you feed a girl you feed a city you feed a country you feed a nation right so true it's so so true I want to do the rocket round now which is always my favorite we ask our guests the same set of questions and it's bizarre everybody's answer is always a little bit different okay okay I'm glad I haven't looked yet then um right okay so it's quick fire essentially yeah we'll see if we can do it because me and you like to talk the first question is what are the non-negotiables do you feel when launching a business oh okay I think yeah that is actually a hard one but for me it would be you have to be passionate about what you're launching as we spoke about earlier and I wouldn't launch anything unless I had the right support behind me in terms of I'm not talking about financial support I'm talking about who are the people in your life who are going to you know care for you mentally emotionally and also from a knowledge perspective help support this venture that you're going into that you may not or may know everything about or you don't know until you speak to other people yeah yeah that's very fair you need somebody to kind of drop the balls pick up the balls that you're dropping i need a lot of emotional support when i launch for instance people don't talk about that like i really needed my siblings so i could be like i'm so frustrated the tears yeah i know now that i couldn't have done what i did without my family that's so nice but it's like you're right it's so so important whether it's family or friends but having that little sort of safety net underneath you is always important when did you first realize that you were truly launched oh has there been a moment yeah you know what there was one I was like on the today show wow that's huge yeah that's that's a moment I think until then we had been like go go go go head down almost and you're just like go go go go go go go and we're on the today show and I was like wow I just did that and I was talking about let's get look oh my god I can't believe I did it this has all come out of the meeting yeah yeah and then I sat with my team after that meeting and we all came because obviously it was a big deal for us So we're literally all there.

58:00Our small team of five, we're all there. And they're just like, we did it. And we had this moment of, we've really launched. And look at us, we're on the Today Show. People know who we are. Like Hoda knows who we are. So brilliant. That feeling, you just want a bottle. That moment of like, all of those meetings, all of those research chats, all of that. And look at what we just did. Yeah. Love that. Love that. What do people usually seek your advice or help for? oh I do get a lot of like makeup or or beauty in general or like oh your skin looks so nice or which isn't good one for me now yeah yeah yeah I'm like oh you want this I can direct you to the website yes exactly I'll send you the link but I do actually genuinely probably get asked about which to me is like so humbling and I'm like damn people think like I looked nice that day great happily tell you all of that I I hope now um that people do feel like I would love to pass on business so any young entrepreneurs if you have business questions to ask me please ask that's like one of my favorite things to talk about love that it's so so important like you say because it's the questions that we want answered too you know exactly what brand do you wish that you'd found it oh oh my gosh so many i'm trying to think like what's a more recent one that i love um i really and this is going to sound maybe a bit me but i love necessary okay yeah and there's something about and they you know we never really see behind the curtains on how long they work to get to the point but i feel like when they came on marketing disrupted body for me in a sense where it was like let's care for our body the same way we care for our faces i was like oh i really like that their packaging i love the aesthetic you know it's it's a good to me it's a good brand that's it's one of many there's so many good i know exactly what you mean yeah because even that statement is so powerful you're like yeah why have we been doing that why have we not been doing that yeah they've made us ask questions Bars of soap.

1:00:05Which is great, yeah. No, smart. If you could choose one female figure as a mentor, past or present, who would it be? It would probably be Michelle Obama. I love that queen so much. She is a queen, isn't she? If not her, maybe actually someone like Kiki Palmer. Yes, okay. I love Kiki. Excuse me. I love her so much I choked. it was quite the gear change but i love it yeah it's a good balance because she just has this way of just making life look easy yeah you know it hasn't been easy for her she's obviously been through so much and has done so much in her like young life but she just does it with a smile it's the energy and i and she's so charismatic and so funny so funny i was just watching her recent press tour for her new film and I was like I love this person I genuinely want to support anything and everything she does yeah the confidence yeah someone was saying that like the hot wings guy has a crush on her I'm like I have a crush on her she used to know I have a crush on her and then Michelle obviously for like just someone with so much grace so much grace and so much wisdom and like almost beyond her years and she's obviously had the opportunity to be in in the rooms and at the tables that shape this world and I think she would just have so much knowledge to share and pass on she also does I know which you know it wouldn't have been head up high no matter what like that was her famous slogan right like they go low we go high yeah right I think yeah that's right that's right we did we get that the right way around that's right

1:01:45and lastly if you could trade one of your current skills for a superpower that would help your business what would it be and why I would trade okay well I know what I want yeah I would want to be able to understand the financial part yeah I want the superpower of making really good excel sheets yes that's what I want I just want my brain all the math in it all the numbers like my COO can make an excel sheet that could run a small country honestly I could you I'm just like looking at her with oh like I'm like how did that with her eyes closed yeah unbelievable unbelievable I mean she's great she we stole her from but she was like good to do yeah she was at Uniqlo and she was at Crabtree and Evelyn and like I love her I don't think I could honestly do this business without her but what I would trade for that sometimes I think I am way too inquisitive like I ask too many questions and the reason I think that that can sometimes be a bad thing is I'm always setting a new like oh i'm not satisfied what we did because like why couldn't we have done that oh no it's like well why couldn't we do and it's always like just like it would be nice to sometimes maybe just be satisfied but i do think that's in every entrepreneur yeah rather than being like we've got to this milestone okay this is amazing we've done this what can we do more you're way on to the next thing yeah that's what keeps it moving girl that's true yeah but if you've got abundance you can have a little bit exactly half of it away yes I'm with you on that I think it's a part of your brain that either kind of shines or doesn't like genuinely yeah the finance part of my brain is not switched on like the lights are on no one's home it's not happening one of the things that like my mom will be like what do you mean like she does that weird African math where she can like do times tables with her hands like she learned in school I'm like I don't know what you're doing she's like how do you not get that she can like answer a math question like that like yeah I think it's never like it's something I wish I leaned into a lot more at school because I'm kind of suffering yeah I need to see the words I'm a visual person I'm a visual put it on an aesthetic mood board and I might understand it 100 % math by Pinterest we every episode we get our guests to leave a tip yes we kind of want to be something tangible something that a listener could take away.

1:04:04So if you had one piece of advice for a lady looking to launch, what would it be? You know, people who know me or have listened to interviews I've done before will probably know what I'm gonna say, but I always think it's so important to use your voice and to not be afraid to use your voice. I think for me, having that imposter syndrome, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, I think it definitely kind of maybe shapes us the right way in terms of we should always think we can do more. We don't know enough. We should always be willing to learn is the right way to say it. But I was definitely afraid to ask some of the questions I should have asked.

1:04:37I was definitely afraid to speak up when I thought something was wrong because I was like, I don't I'm not the expert. What do I know? You know, those little bits of self-doubt. Am I good enough? Do I know enough? It's so important to use your voice. No question is a stupid question. OK, there's some stupid questions, but most questions are not stupid questions. Just ask. Just ask everyone and everyone. and say everything you're thinking because you might be thinking something that you may think is insignificant, but other people are inspired by. So use your voice. Don't be afraid to use it. That's a great tip.

1:05:07That's a great tip. Lastly, when I set out this podcast. I don't want it to be over. I don't want it to finish. I don't want it to finish. Can we just stay? But this is good. You'll like this. And this could extend into our next date. Okay, I love that. So I like to ask everybody how they spend their lunch hour. because we talk about ladies who launch but ladies who lunch so how do you spend your lunch hour what do you do where are you and what are you eating sad i work lunch that's okay i'm always a work because lunch is the best opportunity to either have a meeting or to work i also you know something is really embarrassing about me i'm i eat in like lots of little small meals throughout the day okay i don't think anyone's ever had a zoom call with me without me eating like i i genuinely and i've almost just become like yeah not embarrassed about it anymore that i'm doing this or not because i do that i'm like sorry i'm just eating on on the call yeah but you know what i've just like i i love it i i think it's a thing that's hung over from me from uni because i would study and snack okay so i find i focus more if i've just got something in my mouth so so snack of choice I'm thinking okay this is not good I'm like a massive crisps person you know I'm saying crisps now it's all my Canadian friends are chips I like chips you're in London now I know I'm a London girl now um but I'm a massive crisps person and I will have crisps more than one time a day and you know what I'm just gonna admit that because my day starts off like this okay I'm super healthy in the morning yeah I got my shake I got my things yeah by the end of the day I have hair to said but i start off the right start with the best intentions and i've actually just decided this is i was supposed to do it january 1st nobody starts these things january 1st okay this was my new year's resolution to do an anti-inflammatory diet because i do want to and i've just started doing like more not injections and stuff like that i want to do a turnaround on my thinking around inflammation internally so i'm gonna test myself you know as i want to if i'm going to preach this advice i want to do it to myself and do an anti-inflammatory diet so i just ordered from a food company a bunch of anti-inflammatory diets because i don't have time to cook yeah so like the meal prep is it will make it easier the meal prep will make it easier and this is why it's the crisps and the haribo because i think people forget when you're doing business like girl i wish i had the time to make that like tuna chop salad thingy that you found on tiktok like i'm exhausted when i get home yeah most times i'm eating i'm like at the office and it's a livaroo or it's like you know so this is going to encourage me to make some smarter choices so admit it when you're not got it and try and get it you know like i just gotta admit it first what are your favorite crisps uh salt and vinegar always but let me put you on to something okay every time i go to canada i come back with these crisps so we're gonna be able to get them before you put i will bring you some no but i do think we should start like a petition or something to have them here you started it because there's a flavor that should be here there's two two canadian three canadian flavors that are not in the uk that should be here okay i sound like the christ this is snowballing but as salt and vinegar is what i get here because that's like my go-to so i do i guess love a vinegary thing we have in canada a dill pickle crisp oh i know that's quite neat about it the crunch yeah vinegar okay yeah yeah i like there's a spicy dill pickle okay right like when i first had that sounds like what i would want when i over her head that's giving craving so good i cannot wait to bring you a bag i'm gonna send it to your house yes they're so moorish we also have ketchup chips in canada okay which makes sense you have fries i feel like we had them at some point here i feel like walkers might have done yeah but it's a thing it should be it's like logical and then and then we have all dressed which is a mix of like barbecue and salt and vinegar in my it's like all it's like just seasoning that's that that sounds like i'd love that yeah it's really good i'm gonna put you on something here okay bougie crisp yes this is really escalating guys we're doing this we're doing it we're here um kettle chips okay chili they're like chili sour cream oh yeah red bag yeah i do love the chili sour they're like my og crisp sick bit of hummus yogurt have you ever had them with yogurt no just with greek yogurt tonight so good you're welcome listeners but But we're going to encourage you to...

1:09:27I'm having carrots tonight, okay? Carrots. Tonight we're just doing broccoli. And that's how we spend our lunch hour. I've loved this so much. I've loved it too. I thought this was going to span into where our next date was going to be, but it sounds like we're just going to come to my house on the sofa and have some crisps. That sounds like the best hangout ever. You know what? We don't do that in London enough. You know what I love about Canadian thinking? Maybe because it's cold. We're like, can I come over? Be cozy. Yeah. Cozy. I just want to come over. Like, we don't have to go to Chiltern.

1:09:53No. I'll just come over and watch Mean Girls with you. Yeah, exactly. I'm ready where you are. Thank you so much. I've loved it. Thank you. That was so nice, wasn't it?

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