Episode 5 – Natasha Oakley: Are you excessively obsessed with your business?

0:12Hi guys, I'm Rachelle Humes and this is Ladies Who Launch. Each episode will dive into the journeys of aspirational women who started from scratch and built their dreams into thriving empires. These are the founders, the risk takers, the go getters that are changing the landscape and making their mark in the world of business. We're here to celebrate their wins, dive into their challenges and share the invaluable lessons they've learned along the way. Ladies Who Launch is about sharing the inspiring stories that could empower you to take your own leap. So get ready to be uplifted by the resilience, creativity and unstoppable determination of today's most extraordinary women.

0:52This is your Girls Group Chat for business and beyond.

1:00My guest today is known for being a powerhouse entrepreneur, having co-founded a swimwear empire that disrupted the industry. with an unapologetic drive and passion for empowering others. She's proven time and time again that she's a force to be reckoned with. Please welcome to the podcast, Natasha Oakley. I'm so pleased you're here. I'm so pleased we managed to make this happen. Same. I'm so excited. The dates just aligned perfectly. But also you were born to have a podcast and I'm so excited that you're doing one. Thank you. Honoured to be here as well. We have absolutely loved it. I'm just enjoying hanging out with great women every day.

1:37It's like my dream. I always like to start way back when, because I think, you know, those that don't know you, just to get a real sort of feel of how you are, the Natasha that we know now. It sounds to me like you were destined to be an entrepreneur, that you have had real sort of strong female influence around you. Your mum building her own business. Do you think that did have an impact on you? Absolutely. So I think that one of the best kind of internships I ever had was just being a child and watching both of my parents run their businesses. I think it gave me a really unique insight into that was the world that I lived in.

2:18And that's what I looked at in terms of work and a career. And that's what I had insight on. So to me, it probably was something I was always destined to because that's what I really knew. And I always say that those phone calls in the car when my mom was, you know, on a call for 45 minutes and I was sitting in the backseat. like this so bored like out of my mind being like god this is so boring but imagine all the things I was absorbing through that you know and being at her office in the afternoons and my dad's also a entrepreneur he's a private detective and has his own business so I just grew up really watching what what it took to run your own business which I think is one of the most interesting insights you can have not even just necessarily the ins and outs but just knowing how much work it is and being prepared for that from such a young age, it really like set the bar really high for me and made me kind of aspire to have it and be like, I always looked at my mom going to work in her suit and just thought, oh, she's so cool.

3:11Like she's such a girl boss. Like just, you know, before the girl boss thing was even a thing, like I really was literally looking at her like a girl boss and being like, wow, I'm so inspired by her. And my dad as well, it was obviously a huge inspiration to me too. So yeah. It's so nice to hear that because I think as a working parent myself, you think oh gosh the poor kids I've been on a zoom in the car as we're driving from you know school to dance club or whatever but actually I kind of it's really nice for you to say that that actually it's it's it's a good thing to absorb and actually sort of learn that work ethic from a young age yeah and it's not something that everyone has the opportunity to like you know have exposure to and I think that you know people have to go to college or get actual internships and you know learn through all different ways but like when you have that exposure from a young age it definitely does like give you a unique skill set and you know that insight that some people you know it's hard to be in the inside of a business and really know what's going on within it and hear even those conversations that as an employee or an intern you may not hear so like yeah I think I was absorbing a lot from a really young age and always wanted to be a girl boss I didn't know what I would want to do but I just really rolled with it and here I am I was going to ask you was you was it clear the job title the job role the ambition was was that clear to you or was it just that I want to feel powerful it was never clear it was never about anything in particular for me it was just always about passion and momentum and right I I wrote my book excessively obsessed because everything we're going to talk about today is probably also in the book because I feel like it's such an important subject and I think that in this day and age you know the spirit of entrepreneurialism is very well and alive and it is an amazing time to be an entrepreneur but it's also something that a lot of people are aspiring to and they have no idea what they're really getting themselves into so for me it just became it was such a natural progression which I think is really beautiful and I'm very happy that it happened that way for me because a lot of people I think are trying to force something that's either not meant to be or won't actually make them happy or they just don't actually understand what they're getting themselves into and you know I'm all about jumping out of the into the deep end jumping off the cliff out of the plane whatever just going for it but you also do need to be aware and like I said I had that exposure I knew what I was getting myself into I knew you know how much I would have to work and the sacrifices I would have to make so whenever I went into whatever it is that I was doing it was really just about maintaining this really amazing feeling of momentum in my life right and just continuing and continuing and working hard and finding the things I feel passionate about and being intuitive.

5:50And it was just like this road that I kind of went on. And I never had one thing in particular in mind that I wanted to do. I didn't know I wanted to be a designer. I didn't know I wanted to be a CEO. I didn't know I wanted any of these things. But I definitely think that I prioritized my career, you know, not over everything else in my life, but it's always been very equal for me to relationships family I really appreciate independence so it was just those things of passion momentum wanting my own independence and knowing what it took to get that those things as soon as I prioritize those things in my life everything really fell into place yeah I suppose it is just following that fire isn't it and constantly doing so yeah so let's go back to a bikini a day because I remember this so so cutest little business in the world it was genuinely it was just so genius so this is a platform that you co-founded with Devin who is your best friend yes which you are so lucky that you are have this friendship and luckiest girl in the world like you have the friendship and you've built this incredible business together at that point were you and Devin already influencers when you stumbled upon this or was it the other way around?

7:04So we were, I think we had about like 17 ,000 followers when we started a bikini a day on our personal profile, something around that. And it was definitely right in the very beginning of Instagram. We started a bikini day in 2012 and it was kind of off the back of us. Devin grew up in Maui. I grew up in Sydney. We were beach girls. I also had moved to Hawaii and then to California. So our whole life just revolved around the beach. So everything we were putting on Instagram was related to bikinis you know some girls like shoes some girls like bags we were just like every dollar we had we would spend on a new bikini and that was just something that we loved and we we also just love everything about the beach lifestyle you know it's like it's something that grounds you and it's very positive and it's very like nurturing and I don't know everything that surrounds the beach lifestyle to me has a very positive connotation.

7:55Oh what is not to love about a beach life? I know right? I'm always chasing that beach lifestyle. Everyone is so yeah it It was just something that like, you know, kind of happened naturally because we were just posting in bikinis every day. And at the time, everyone was just kind of posting scenic shots or a coffee cup or whatever. And they were like, stop posting your bikinis. My God. Like it was before anyone was posting in bikinis. So it's very different to what it is now. And I just one day in our apartment together, I was like, you know what? We should just post a bikini every single day and like make it a thing.

8:27Because, you know, everyone was kind of like recognizing that that was our thing at the time. And we were like, we'll just call it a bikini a day. And then it's genius. And then we started, we've got all of our bikinis. We had about 30 bikinis each at the time. I had a production company. That's what I was doing at the time. I was actually shooting campaigns and video campaigns for swimwear brands. And so we went down to the beach and used all my professional equipment and shot each other. And then the next day we sent out terms and conditions to all the brands that we knew and said, it's a hundred dollars a post if you'd like to be featured on a bikini a day.

9:00and we featured 365 bikinis, you know, every single day of the year. And it was just the cutest thing ever. It was one of those concepts that I even remember I spoke to a family friend who was a businessman and I was so excited about this concept. I was up till 2am, Devin was still in college. So she was kind of shooting with me and doing things on the side. And I was up till 2am every night kind of building this little business. And I remember this businessman was like, I think you should just be going to college. I don't think this is going to go anywhere. But for us, it was something that even now I would probably, if I was him, agree with what he was saying.

9:35Really? That's interesting. I know. And that's why I'm like in my book, I talk about I'm not even a person to give someone advice on what they should do or what's going to do well or not, because what it comes down to is your passion. Yeah. And just doing something that even if it fails, you won't regret it because you loved it and you enjoyed it. And it's just something that you needed to do because you were so passionate about it. right but the concept at the time okay posting a new bikini every day that's why I'm always like it's the cutest thing that this just took off it became one of the largest marketing platforms in the swimwear industry we were like you know at Miami Swim Week every single year like the stars of the show and it was just like such a beautiful little thing that came out of something that Devin and I were genuinely so passionate about and I love those beginnings you know I love those things where it's not because we were we weren't in it for the money we weren't in it for you know the clout or we weren't in it to become someone we just actually were like doing something we really really loved and passionate about yeah and that is the best way to start something and if you're not having that feeling you definitely do have to kind of think twice because in business you really do get to a point five years in where you go wait what am I doing here like am I running this for the rest of my life am I selling this business what is my prerogative if I sell the business what do I do after you know like there's so many questions that come with going down that path that I think is so important to think about and talk about and if you talk about all those things or you read my book and you're still wanting to start a business then go for it.

11:04And also if you've not got that fire and you've not got that excitement or passion like you say five years down the line or 10 years down the line when it's hard. You're like taking a breath. Yeah yeah what is if I'm not passionate about this it is exhausting. Absolutely exhausting it's seven days a week. I do have to be available every hour of the day. And, you know, my teams are in New York, LA, Sydney, in London, they're always traveling. I'm on every time zone of the world. And if I didn't love what I do, it would really, really probably drag me down and not be a positive thing in my life.

11:37So we're so lucky that we stumbled across something we genuinely loved. And that also was just actually a really great business with great margins and all these things that you know we didn't actually know about any of that when we started and we got into swimwear we're just lucky that we started something that actually had legs and was like a really smart thing actually to to get into so you so you build this kind of ever-growing platform a bikini a day you're you're gaining that traction yes at what point do you and devon talk to each other and say do you know what we are promoting everyone else's swimwear yeah this is what we are known for this is our thing what point do you go okay Monday swimwear needs to be born so what's so funny is we still continue to have a bikini day and promote other people's swimwear for quite a long time after starting Monday because we still think there's room for everyone we are so I think the swim industry especially is not like other fashion industries it's not as competitive and cutthroat it's actually just really fun so like even all the other swim brand owners we knew them at swim week we would go to their shows like we love everyone in the industry we're not like competitive we weren't thinking like you know we want to we want to have our own label or this is what makes sense next it was purely born out of the fact that in everyone's swim collections we would find maybe one bikini that we loved and that's what we would feature right but it was very very hard to find a a brand that actually had really good quality timeless amazing suits that fit all different body shapes all different cup sizes all the suits would have clasps on the back but then devon's like you know it was a triple d cup and then the back wouldn't fit her and we'd have to tie it in the back and like it just even at the time like the tops and bottoms were coming in a set as like small medium large whatever you know and there was always my worst yeah there wasn't a lot of like you know um diversity in the ranges and there just wasn't one brand that we could go to that we were like everything in this brand is something we love and i think even when you go shopping these days you know your brands that you could walk into the store and find five things that you love and then there's other brands that you walk in at any given time and you might not even like one thing that's in there but we really wanted Monday to kind of be like the Calvin Klein of Swim where every summer it's your go-to brand every single thing in the collection is amazing we think it's an essential it's something that's timeless the quality is amazing you know we use recycled materials just all the things that we knew we wanted in a brand we wanted to create that and we still like celebrated other brands for as long as we could whilst it still made sense and then eventually you know Monday took over and we were just like nothing's as good as Monday now so we just got to roll with Monday it is so good and you know we kind of I've told you this time and time again it's they're my staple bikinis I always love seeing you in it every trip every single trip honestly I know you know when you've got the thing you're like I'm just going to put this on because it looks right with everything that's exactly and I know there's probably even people that like shoot other things and then they go and take it off and put on because they're just so comfortable and like like that's what we used to do like we were shooting things and then we would be like oh nothing feels as good as monday and then we just go put on our other suit so exactly yeah now we don't wear anything else start a brand that you feel so passionate about i think what is interesting to me is i mean i would say every woman that i've had sat in this seat their fire and their drive and I suppose their success story comes from a place of building something that they feel was missing yes a necessity yeah exactly and that is like you say exactly what you've done it's not to time it wasn't like this is the brand that I'm coming for and I think we should do something a bit more like this there was nothing like Monday at the time there wasn't and honestly I don't think there is still honestly like we really take so much care in what we design in the fabrics that we choose.

15:31We're wearing this every single day. When we go on a trip and it's a summer trip, we're only packing Monday. So we have every single thing in the collection that you'll need on vacation. And like you said, it's just so comfortable. Our beachwear, we didn't want it to be like stiff linens that, you know, crinkle in your suitcase and that, you know, maybe they're nice to wear out to a dinner, but can you actually wear it to the beach with a bikini underneath? Like everything is very surrounded around that kind of like european inspired very relaxed very elegant timeless but also something that like we say there's the monday moment when people try on monday for the first time and they go oh my god this is the first time i've ever actually felt good in a bikini and they like we've had people come into our pop-ups and cry because they just have never ever had that experience where it's something that flatters your body and actually makes you feel good and being in a bikini is a very vulnerable thing.

16:23We know we're women, you know, we know the feeling, we know how it feels to be at the beach feeling like you're on literally a runway in front of everyone walking around. And we have the sarongs and the cover-ups and all the things that just make you feel comfortable in that situation. And confident. And confident, exactly. Like I think that a lot of people, you know, are too harsh on themselves and their bodies when they're putting on clothing that doesn't suit them. It's cutting in and digging in in the wrong places. It's not actually something that's like accentuating their beautiful curves or their womanly figure or just them as a person it's something that's like taking away from that and making them feel self-conscious or uncomfortable and for us we're like if anything is digging in if anything is making me feel not good about my body then no one's going to feel good so like we need everything to feel like it's just making you feel like your best version of yourself and you need that at the beach because it is kind of like you're very exposed you feel like all eyes are on you and then and they're not necessarily at all but it's just the way you feel when you're stripping down to not much.

17:23I mean, I'm certainly not at the beach looking at people's bodies like that. And we always say, and that's what like a bikini a day was so beautiful for, is that we would always just say like the beach is meant to be a place that you go to just feel like happy and free. And it's not about how you look, but we do recognize that you put on a suit that makes you feel bad and it can ruin your whole day. Even just if it's digging in on your neck, it's not even about how you look. It's actually just like sometimes you're at the beach all day wearing this garment so you want to feel like comfortable and like you can just feel really like you know confident and comfortable at the beach so there's so many elements to now when we go to the beach we're just so happy and comfortable and confident the entire time we feel like sexy we feel hot we feel like our best version of ourselves and like change narrative yeah the day of the denim cutoffs and the little singlets and like you know the bikinis that are digging in they're over no thank goodness yeah we don't want those days back yeah definitely no and how amazing that you get to empower women as part of your everyday it's such a blessing as part of your job like that is that is so so incredible it's very special we are so lucky like i said that we fell into something that we were so passionate about and it's luck and it's also not you know like we love women we're obsessed with women if you're beautiful on the inside we really look at every woman and think god she's stunning it doesn't matter what you look like it comes from the inside and we've just always been about I swear our office is like a sorority it's just like but a good one you know like not like the Elle Woods version but like it's honestly just like I just love all the women that work for us so much and we attract a very particular customer and a very particular employee because I think we're just all about that life of like I don't know just like lifting one another yeah and it feels very inclusive like from the outside it does when i watch everything via social media it feels and your campaigns are so inclusive you do these incredible trips yeah that you know that influencer trips that are just it's really nice to watch it all play out and it looks like a club that you want to be a part of it doesn't look because when i think of swimwear and i think of gym wear actually i think oh god it can feel really intimidating you know when you start a new gym for the first time and you're like oh gosh do i know what I'm doing here is everyone looking at me yeah that and swim has the same kind of feeling absolutely you do such a good job of sort of debunking that well I even think that you know the trips that we go on we become lifelong friends with every girl that comes on the trip they all become friends it's like we now have girlfriends that are like our absolute best friends in the world that come on like every trip with us because they're just such beautiful positive people and we even just attract the best girls on those trips but I think even they sometimes can come to the trip feeling a little bit intimidated or what's this going to be like and they're leaving we've been crying on the trip we're besties it's been the best experience ever and I think people can feel that like it's genuinely something that like we all have the best time we lift each other up and I think it does start with Devin and I like we consider each other's success a big part of our own success and we are one unit you know like I always say I have my husband and my wife and Devin And like, we are really so connected in that whatever, if she's doing well, I'm doing well and vice versa.

20:37We really genuinely care so deeply about one another. We're always on the same page. We're so like positive to one another. We've never argued. It's such a unique thing. And, you know, I like to think that that does kind of spread throughout everything that we do. And I think the foundation. Of course, when you're leading and you have that relationship and that respect for one another, it's really important that everybody underneath you sees that. Yeah. I am always obsessed with the idea of concepts of creation. It's something that I find so, so fascinating. So I want to kind of dig deep into how it all begun.

21:12Like you have this amazing platform. You then have the idea that actually there are certain things that you feel like problems that you could solve. What was your first step that you took into going about it? So funnily enough, I talk about this whole story in my book because it's a very interesting one. We actually started Monday the very first collection as a collaboration collection with a manufacturer in Los Angeles that does many brands. So they had said to us, do you want to do your own range? And we kind of were like, yeah, why not? And actually it was a really great intro for us because obviously just starting out the very first collection on our own would have been, you know, pretty intimidating.

21:53So almost like a licensing proposition. It was, yes. Right. So the first collection came out. it really kind of all went wrong actually because we were so specific about what we wanted the brand to be you know the name the the look of the brand what the brand was about but unfortunately when we partnered with someone they had different ideas or even for example we created a collection but and it was exclusive to them but they didn't buy certain pieces of the collection right so even just taking that power away from us we recognize that we're just way too passionate and way too specific about how we want to run our brand to be working with someone else and it kind of blew up in a spectacular fashion um as these things have yeah and I talk about it in the book and we kind of walked out of the office after that first collection and had that had come out and we just said well now we're on our own and it was kind of like wow shit yeah what do we do because we were not designers we had no background in design we had no idea what we were doing we did have our first collection that we had created in our samples so from there we really were back to square one essentially and I assume that you when you sort of take up that licensing proposition the risk as in the finances is normally with that manufacturer that supplier so to then be out on your own yeah starting from scratch yeah were you were you worried about that you knew you had to but was it kind of a time of oh shit here we go I'm never worried about anything there's definitely that's amazing that I've been worried but it's a different kind of worry I'm very um I actually kind of thrive in in those situations you're like me and sometimes it's a blessing and a curse yeah exactly like I like to really like take the the bull by the horns and just be proactive and be productive and I don't ever see anything unless it's your health I really think that every problem can be navigated and I think that the most important thing as a businesswoman is knowing how to navigate those times and lead a team and make other people feel comfortable during those times and I talk about all that in my book as well sorry to keep plugging it but like no it's important you sent me your book and it's brilliant it's brilliant I'm so glad yeah no honestly it's and it's so important to consistently share that message yeah and I cover so much of this in it so So yeah, I mean, when it happened, it was definitely like, okay, here we go.

24:18You know, that was the feeling. But I just knew anything that you need to know in the world, you just can't be afraid to ask. You just ask every single person you know. You Google every single thing you need to Google. Now just use chat GPT. Like just use every contact you have. It's a lot simpler, isn't it? Yeah, don't ever be intimidated by anything because anyone can learn anything. Anyone can ask anyone for anything. and you just have to be afraid of, you know, never be afraid of, you know, someone saying no. Yeah, the fear of embarrassment. We speak about that a lot. And I also do find like particularly in the US where we had our business, there's definitely a real sense of people wanting to help one another.

24:55And I definitely feel like I had so many people along the way that were, and here in the UK and in Australia too, that were just so willing to help me and give me advice. And you just have to be like confident enough to really go out there and ask for what it is that you want. Be ready to receive it. I think that's also important too. How did you go about funding it initially? Because we talk about how hard women find it to receive funding, which is just wild. And it's still, and I don't know how the landscape sits stateside, but particularly in the UK, it's, when we talk about venture capital, it's like 1.7%.

25:33and it's just outrageous and that's a whole lot of conversation but did you find that hard so for us and firstly I say anyway you should avoid you know having to bring on any venture capitalists or involve anyone in the business if you don't have to it should be the last option I think because a lot of people don't realize that it's almost as important as a marriage like you are getting into bed with someone you are going to be doing business with them potentially for however long it's going to be five years or for the rest of your life and that is something in itself that is has to be navigated and can be very difficult and can be your make or break for your business and for your mental health as well so it's really important to know who you're getting into business with and it's definitely something that should be the last resort if you have other options so we actually took a personal loan out from a family friend of thirty thousand dollars right and as soon as our first collection launched we were really lucky we actually just paid it back immediately and didn't get anyone involved and to this day we're completely self-funded so we were really lucky like i said that we chose a industry that had really great margins that allowed us to reinvest into our business and we didn't actually get paid for the first four years from the company so every dollar we made we reinvested back into the company and i love that you say that because I think there's this real kind of illusion that you launch a business you get a shiny office yeah you you know you're you've got this power suit people want to skip the Steve jobs in the garage phase and you can't skip that phase I think it's really important to do things really economically and not just be thinking of it you know as you know the best packaging the best office having the team you know we used every resource that we possibly could before doing any of those things And I think it's really important to gauge, you know, whether your business actually does have legs and so many other things and build a really strong foundation before you just jump into all of those other things.

27:35And there's also a lot of pressure if you are, you know, having people invest in your business. It's a lot of pressure. That's the other side of it. To know that, you know, it's going to perform. It's going to do well. You don't want to feel like you're letting people down if it doesn't. so we were very very lucky and we also had our influencer careers to subsidize as well and help with you know building our business which we and just even the exposure of that like our situation was very unique and we were very lucky in so many ways but we also worked really really hard from day one we always took the brand very very seriously we always were very specific about what we wanted it to be and you know Monday what it was in day one is still what Monday is now it's just you know ever it's an evolution and it's it's always getting better and better but we've never changed from you know that very first kind of the message the foundation of the brand and all the things that we wanted it to be it's still what it is today and at the start how did it look in terms of so you you loan the money you pay it back really quick which is always the biggest relief yeah it was like thank god because you also don't know how things are gonna go you know and of course it's always a risk yeah you've got to sort of take that on yourself but also you you're borrowing that so you've got that double risk haven't you yeah so is your role at monday swim changed now to the role that you had festival because at the start you're basically doing everything until you can make that quality control packaging our entire apartment wasn't in an apartment anymore we had our bedrooms which was our personal space and then the whole rest of it was floor to ceiling boxes you know shipped to us from our manufacturers and at that stage we were doing the quality control like it was just very like mom and pop in the garage like just very like low key yeah but those were just the best days we always think back to those and it's just so cute and such a humble beginning and it's such a nice place to start sure what's ahead of you so it's so exciting oh yeah if you could fast forward and see you now like but we also had no expectations again like we really did not we didn't know if it was going to do well we didn't care if it was going to do well we were just so excited by the idea of doing it that like nothing else matters no ulterior motive there was literally none like we were living in our tiny little apartment you know in LA just the two of us at the time buying a fridge was exciting for us like we we you know we didn't even know how we were going to pay our rent every month you know like it was just like something that was just like so exciting to us and I think that's so beautiful rather than starting from a place of like I want to make X amount.

30:08I want to have this or that. Everything we have now is like insane. And our lives, I just can't even believe it. You know, it's something I never even would have actually dreamt for. Like we didn't aspire to have what we have now. But I think that's the best way to be. I think you just need to go into it with like, you know, the excitement and the passion and zero expectations on what you want it to be. Work your ass off, have good intentions, have a great foundation and you know going back to your question about my role I'm the CEO of our brand and you know that's something that I technically was since day one but I was you know packaging doing customer service a few other quality control yes we Devin and I was shooting our campaigns on one another we didn't even have a team at all and you know these days we have 40 plus you know team members and I'm heading up very very different things to what I was overseeing you know every single department all of our finances you know all of our business strategy and you know long-term strategy day-to-day strategy um and there's it just goes on as you would know yeah of course I'm like yeah it's a lot it is a lot yeah so when you when you're in a position where you could delegate a little more because there's nothing kind of when you've been doing everything yes to be able to sort of say okay that's the thing I'm going to step away from what was the first what was the first role for you that you you know the first person you hired who was that and what did they do it really was just someone that was kind of on the operations and logistic side I do think that you know if you do want to be the CEO of your brand or you want to be someone that's working you know in the opera management you have to learn how to delegate yeah and you have to really be able to know how to attract the right people and really trust those people and empower them as well within their roles I always say that like the beginning stages of a business are so exciting.

31:57You know, I have this hat that I love and I want to start a business and it's so beautiful and I'm excited about it and I'm a creative. But once that creative person has to become a team manager and deal with different personalities and working styles and communication styles, you know, I read every book that there was on team management. I read constantly was just reading business books and constantly leveling up. You know, I didn't go to college. I didn't have, you know, an education in, you know, a degree in business. This is something that I had to learn on the go but it's something that is very easy to do if you're passionate about it and there's so many resources out there but it is very important to recognize that if your role is evolving you have to evolve with it yeah and you have to be very aware that it's not about everyone just like adjusting to you and how you are you know being a good team manager is recognizing that everyone is so different everyone has a different you know even just the communication style I say like being a manager is almost harder even than being in a relationship because you really do have to like respect people and their boundaries and their communication style and understand that you need to help someone find what it is that they're really good at the same way that I in my job you know will gravitate towards the things that are my strong points and that I enjoy genuinely and all of those things you kind of have to apply that to other people you've got to find that yeah and you have to empower them within what they do and and that is an ongoing never-ending thing especially as your team grows like managing a team is like the most complicated part of having a business for sure and just different personalities and things like that and we're so lucky yeah emotions i mean all our team is gonna say okay we don't have one man on the team but i i have to say women are they're the best oh of course sorry but they're just so highly organized and when they are good at something it's like they they have to we have to know how to do a million things at once.

33:53Like men struggle to like multitask. It's like, you know, I just find women as like when you find the good ones, it's just like, wow. Oh my God, it's amazing. And then men have their strong suits and there are different things that they're good at. But I just love the emotional intelligence of a woman. I think that it's the way of the future in business because we really understand all the different elements of like, you know, a human being and what's involved. And we can really apply those things to a business and make it not so cold and not so rigid. And, you know, I think that's really beautiful.

34:24But you do have to like, I'm constantly learning every single day. And, you know, one of my biggest things at the moment is with a growing team, how do I still, you know, communicate with every employee to some degree, have a relationship with them, make sure that they, make sure that that feeling of what Devin and I have reverberates through the company as a whole and continues to. On top of also having to do every other job that we have, you know and every other thing and all the customer facing things and you know being worried about our customers and being worried about our team and the product itself and you know the ever-changing landscape of the fashion industry like there's a lot of pressure I personally thrive in that situation you know we've had the business 11 years now but bikini a day was from since 13 years ago and I had a business before that as well so it's been probably like 15 years that I've owned a business and you know there's definitely days that I go oh my god this is like really never-ending is it and then I'm like thank god I love what I do thank god it goes back to what we said at the start you have to love what you do because on the days that you're like what is this yeah you've got to nope hang on it's gonna be great tomorrow because this you know you've got to find that that thing that's gonna pull you yeah every single time you have to what do you do on those days that you that everything does get a little bit on top what do you do for yourself to switch off because like you say you you're always on call it is a yeah it's a constant you know it is it's seven days a week but what do you do to sort of take that time that brings you right back into it one of the first things I've always done is I just take everything day by day right I kind of have this analogy that I'm not the best skier I'm like a blue slope skier I learned in my 20s I'm a little bit scared and nervous.

36:12But when I look down a mountain, I'm scared shitless. Okay. So when I just look in front of me and I just take it bit by bit, that's when I'm like, I'm completely fine, you know? So that's what I do is like my schedule is so jam packed and people think I'm literally like insane how much I travel, how much I do, how much I take on. But my way of doing that is I do say yes to most things, like almost everything. But I just also know like the power of a good night's sleep, the power of certain things that will re-energize me. And I'm in that day and I'm not procrastinating or I'm not anticipating what's coming up every day or thinking about the next week or the next month or the next year.

36:55Not looking too far ahead because that's where the overwhelm. You'll give yourself anxiety. You just have to take it day by day. You have to look after your health and wellness, have a good routine that resets you and does allow you to kind of, you know that's something I talk about a lot in my book the last chapter is completely dedicated to burnout and health and wellness and how important those things are because you are your business especially in this day and age and you know I think it's so so important to know your limits and your boundaries especially as women without hormones and all the things you know that we have to think about that honestly men don't like like just scientifically and it comes down to our hormones and our DNA there are things that we do have to think about with our nervous system and our hormones and it is important as a businesswoman to keep all those things in mind especially once you become a mother and all those things which I haven't even gone there yet so I don't know how it's just you're doing it that's a whole new layer and I think you don't it's it's very apparent that actually that is the importance so it's yeah it's you've had this baby that you're the meaning of life it's another baby and it's it's kind of puts everything into perspective again which is which is nice but also it adds a whole other curveball of yeah actually I wouldn't need to get on that flight for this but I don't want to because I've got the school play and it's kind of your priorities change it just does and but you but there's a way of being your and I say this a lot and Emma Greed spoke about this really well that actually that you're either the best mum that week or you've been the best CEO that week and you've got to kind of you've got to be okay with setting a boundary and setting a present of how that week's gonna look yeah this week I'm an amazing mom yeah this week I'm gonna make and being okay with that and the team and the family and everyone being and I think whether you're a businesswoman or not you're gonna have those weeks right of course you know like as a mom in general from what I've seen from all my family members and friends and everyone around me has babies yeah it takes a village right the same way it does in a business it takes it's not you it's the team that are so crucial it's exactly the same when you're yeah and I think that like having a business is is much alike in the fact that it is never ending it's something that as it grows it only gets harder it's not like actually you know it's not something that eventually gets easier if your business is thriving and successful yes you know it's going to become harder and harder and harder and you know I think that you can kind of apply the same you can't I definitely say that I've got four babies because you know three children in the business and that is that is and just I'm sure it's the same for you that you really do have to just take things as they come and try not to give yourself more worry than you need to and just like take it day by day 100 and I was joking about this the other day because my mom said on my tombstone it's gonna say when I get this week out of the way I'll be okay that's literally all I say but you always think that it's gonna be more chill like I always am like you know this period but for us we have the northern and southern hemisphere so it's summer all year round and we have like you know high seasons all throughout the year and I always think that things are going to chill out and they don't and then some days I just go why do I keep saying oh after this because I'm like that's not going to happen but you have to be that little bit delusional because it makes you feel better just get that bit out of the way and there's definitely certain things in your job that feel more like work right yes there's certain things like you know for me it's if I speak on like a panel in front of a thousand people I anticipate that more than I would with other parts of my job and everyone has different things that they and I'm just kind of like I just need to get this out of the way you know because I know even if I'm actually not nervous it just gives me anxiety and I'm not even nervous I know what I'm going to say but it's still like kind of intimidating so there's certain things that I'm like once that's done I'll be able to relax even though I'm not relaxing I'm still going to be working non-stop like I just mine's in reverse to you oh really I'm like that's my most comfortable I'm like that it's funny isn't it whereas like if I was going into a finance meeting that's what I would be yeah like apprehensive about yeah it's crazy isn't it yeah what what I think really shines and I mean even in this conversation alone is your friendship with Devon and I think when you are so close and you live with each other and you are best friends before this business is born obviously it's only grown for you guys which is brilliant was there ever a point that you were a little worried like my husband has this rule that he's like I love my friends I love my family but we're never going to work together because I'm so scared of ever kind of which is smart breaking that relationship or going but the way that I see that it works for you is I mean you must count your lucky stars every day right that this hasn't ruined a friendship because there are times that I suppose that it has the potential to.

41:46Yeah absolutely and I dedicated a whole chapter to this in my book as well because I think that our friendship is is a perfect you know scenario and we're so lucky because it's like a cosmic thing that we found one another and it's really the yin and the yang and Devin is very chill and a very different person to me. We're so similar in so many ways we really get each other and we worked well together but we are also completely opposites you know like like Devin is so much more chill and relaxed and more I don't know I'm always like you you have the conversation if you have to be like really sensitive and nice because I'm so straightforward you know and I I love everyone I try to be sensitive to everyone but I'm like she is so sweet and so kind and all those things and knows how to really take a beat and really be like really caring and really and I am those things but like I you know she's that's more of a strong point for her and for me it's like I can have the more difficult conversations you know and just in every single way we balance each other out so well you don't want too many cooks in the kitchen you know she has always been my biggest backer my number one believer she has built up my confidence as a businesswoman and been the best business partner I could ever have because at every step along the way she has really trusted my intuition and my leadership and that is such an important role or important person to have as a female entrepreneur especially because she never made me question myself she never made me question you know where I think thought we should go next and she allowed me to take risks and she allowed me to you know everything we do it's an experiment and I'm always like taking note of what works well and what doesn't but you have to be able to like not have someone putting any pressure on you that if those things don't work out you know it's it's a indication that you've done something wrong you need that trust yeah And there's just so much trust and love and respect between the two of us.

43:37And I think that sometimes people go into the business and two people are trying to do the same thing or thinking they have the same strong points. And I think that you really need to find a business partner that if you are the more finance business, you know, person and they're the complete opposite to you and their marketing and creative, like that can work really well. and you have to genuinely trust them and their ability and their intelligence and trust them within what they do and give them that freedom because when everyone's trying to like constantly you know step on one another's toes and give like feedback on something that's not necessarily your thing that's their thing but we've just always been very like respectful of one another's things you know and our roles.

44:22Yeah like you're plugging each other's gaps. Exactly. And that's what's And we're just so lucky that that's how it works for us, you know, but I definitely think that partnerships is the hardest thing alongside with running a team, you know, or managing a team in business because it can go horribly wrong. 90 % of the time it does. Not just, you know, initially, it's not about getting into something and it's all going wrong. You could have the business for five years, 10 years, and so much changes within that time or, you know, relationships or personal things, or you have families and like the expectations of the business and its future, or like just all these things that can come into play that you get thrown a lot of curveballs.

45:04And as a partnership, you need to be able to navigate all of those different times. And you have to have so much respect for one another and so much love for one another to really navigate those things well and we've just lucked out you know and I definitely have other things I've invested in or other partnerships that I have that it's definitely like we're having to navigate you know it more than probably Devin or I would but that's also something that's very valuable as a businesswoman to know how to navigate any partnership you don't you don't want everything to be like Devin and I if it was all happy-go-lucky and that was the only thing I had in my life like that's not really a true example of you know what it takes to run a business not only just with a business partner but with board members or investors you always do need to learn how to you know be respectful of other people their opinions what they're wanting and balance everything out so there's having to be best friends I think everyone's got this idea that you have to be best friends and like you're lucky that you are in a business with your best friend but actually not every part of that you know the landscape isn't always going to look like that and that's okay you can have a relationship yeah and that you work really well in but you don't have to have that expectation that you're going to be sailing off into the sunset it's going to be I think whatever form it comes in it's just maintaining positivity and the respect positivity and respect and just maintaining that feeling and that ethos is so important and however you do that It doesn't have to come in the form of being best friends, but it has to come in the form of maintaining that excitement about your business.

46:41Always knowing, you know, bringing it back to what the original idea was. What are we really in this for? And I think that's why it's so important in this day and age to start a business that has meaning. And like you said, the way that we can empower women, not just through Monday, but also my other business, the Pilates class. us it's something that is such a positive reciprocal relationship that we have with our customer that really fulfills us truly you know we our our heart is so full every day knowing that we're like you know bringing a positive to someone's life adding value yeah and if we just created a product just to create a product when times get tough or you know we're having to navigate through all these different things you have to navigate through as a business if that positivity isn't coming through for you mentally physically in the business in so many ways things do go really wrong you know and it's like it's not a good feeling and you have to be in it for the right reasons and that's why you know my book it's called excessively obsessed because you really do need to be obsessed with what you do and you need to genuinely love it and it just reverberates like I said through everything you do and through every part of it reads you can you can you can read that yeah what i want to talk about you investing in others because i know that you're as as well as you being passionate about your own beliefs and what you how you think you're going to change the world you're really passionate about letting other people shine which i think is so admirable and so brilliant let's talk about pilates class yeah and how did that come about okay so Jackie who Jackie Kingswell was my trainer um just before COVID hit and I've obviously trained and done Pilates everywhere all over the world and I've worked with so many amazing trainers and I personally just love and believe in Pilates so much it's amazing um and she was just the best trainer I'd ever had in my life her technique just the way she explains things she has this like balance between being this kind of fiery inspiring Pilates teacher who you want to be but then also being so grounded and so sweet and kind and like all of these other things and so COVID hit and she actually lost her job at the studio and was out of work and she did an online Instagram session just for her clients that you know had been following her doing her classes and I actually didn't think I would like it because I really enjoy going and doing in-person sessions with her so I was kind of like reluctant being like okay fine I'll just do it and then I literally did the class I called her immediately after and I was like it felt like I was there with you you are an amazing teacher her presence was just as good through you know the screen as it was in person and her background is actually being a professional dancer for her whole life so I think she has a stage presence okay and this ability to like I I don't know, shine through still on a screen, which is so unique because I think that's very hard to find.

49:41So I immediately just said, I think that we should, you know, do something together. I'd previously also started a fitness business with one of my exes, Body by Jill, which did amazingly well as well. And so I kind of applied what I knew from having that business immediately. I wanted to launch it globally. I wanted it to be something, you know, we were in Australia at the time but it really definitely was a combination of right time right place and both of us being extremely hard workers so we launched it within a month and you know everyone was kind of stuck at home yeah and it helped a lot of people throughout COVID so again it's one of those businesses that we really take the approach of being very holistic and I don't say that in a cliche way I really mean like it is about seeing results but it's not so driven just by the before and after it's really more about just actually feeling good and finding a workout you genuinely like because consistency is the key to seeing results but also to just having something that you can do for the rest of your life that makes you feel good and it is really hard to find a workout that you don't get sick of after a month you know and I think that Jackie's strong point is that the way that she teaches is something that you look forward to doing every day and stepping on your mat and having that time with her and she's so unique in that way so we just created something that's like very welcoming to everyone you know no matter what your situation is that people genuinely like people are obsessed with her they're obsessed with her voice like they meet her in person they're like oh my god it's you from the screen like I can't believe this is you now in person and like because she'll become such a part of everyone's daily every morning you're there with them you know and so they've become like really attached to her and she has such a beautiful relationship with all of our members so yeah starting that was like very exciting because it it kind of goes back to that a bikini a day beach lifestyle concept where that beach lifestyle usually does come with this health and wellness and this like passion for just feeling good within yourself you know inside outside all those things I find like that just that lifestyle really embodies all of those things of course they work sort of in line with each other don't they yeah do you does it have sort of a different feeling of reward to help somebody that you can see such a talent in them and to be able to help give them that opportunity that must feel really rewarding for you yeah well I'm big on people you know I invest in people I don't invest in concepts I I think that you know Jackie's the type of person where I don't have to explain anything twice and I immediately reckon I knew I wanted to start a business with her before we started it right because I immediately recognized that she's a really switched on hard worker.

52:22When she says she's going to do something, she does it immediately. Like a lot of people go, oh yeah. And then they put it on a list and they write it down and then come back a week later or they may never do it. Or like, you know, but when I see someone that's as like, you know, proactive as I am and has that same passion and that drive, I'm like, okay, we need to do something. We're unstoppable together. Yeah, we need to do something. I don't know what. And I always just do feel like things come about and fall into place the way that they should. And for us, that's exactly what happened. I didn't even tell her, you know, before that moment that I wanted to start something with her, but then it just became so obvious.

52:58And I think that like, you know, in this day and age with brands, it is important. Having a face of a brand can be like, you know, good for a business and then also a negative in so many ways, especially if you're looking to sell the business in the future and things like that. But for me, I really only want to be involved in businesses that have a face of because I think that they take so much more care with the product or with the business itself with the team and I think it actually is good to have someone that is accountable for whatever happens with the business you know I think that it takes the level of care within the business to another level but I also think that that human aspect of people falling in love with an individual is more important these days than someone just liking a product yeah and I think that's what the customer wants to see you want to know yeah who is at the front and center of the whatever that product is right yeah and even a joe malone or you know emma or even the kardashians anyone any of these brands most of the brands i love kosus like they all are like female founded i know who the owner is they're beautiful people i know that they really care about the product you know and it gives you a different level of confidence in that brand absolutely you're buying into it makes perfect sense yeah but i want to do the rocket round now oh my gosh put my tea down I've got an empty cup um I love this bit and I love it's so nice because everybody's outlook is so so different what are do you believe the non-negotiables for launching a business well we've spoken a lot today about you know that passion and that drive and that excitement and I think I think the number one thing is being in it for the right reasons don't be in it because you want someone else's life don't be in it because you want to make x amount just be in it because it's something that you're so genuinely obsessed with and that you love and then just work as hard as you possibly can.

54:47I just think you have to know that and you have to know that you're going to have to make sacrifices. And so all of that goes hand in hand. When you genuinely love it, you are willing to make sacrifices, whatever those may be, because it's something that you love. So I think that's for me is the biggest thing. However, it plays out from there, you know, that's all just part of the excitement and the wild ride of being an entrepreneur. but it has to start in the right place. Okay. Love that. When did you first realize that you truly launched? Oh my God. The first day of Monday was pretty, like we, we really honestly had no idea if even one person would buy.

55:26And we were in, um, actually swim week at the time. And we had one intern that was helping us. And she was at our apartment with these, you know, ceiling high packed up boxes. And she just called us and went, Oh my God, a hundred orders have come through I can't do this on my own and we literally had to call one of Devin's friends from her college and be like can you get over there and help her and like we just kind of did know from day one that like you know it was something that people really wanted yeah like we we were very lucky to have that instant gratification because for a lot of people that takes a lot of time to build but for us that momentum and you know someone said to me what's the best part of being successful and my answer is always like just actually having something that's a success because when you have a product that is successful it drives you to continue you know and that is not always how it is sometimes it can take you five years for your product to take off so for us what we've been the most lucky with is that instant gratification of people genuinely loving our brand and it being something that people were excited about that's like the biggest gift we could have ever had.

56:30But you've maintained it. And I think that's what is so special. Luckily. Well, credit to you guys. What do people usually seek your advice or help for? Definitely anything related to owning a business, starting a business. And so many of my friends and family and followers, you know, have so many questions for me, which is why I wrote my book, because I was like, I, you know, I've had so many of these talks and pep talks, and I'll, you know, build someone up. And then, you know, there's so many times that they just go away and do nothing with it. So I was like I just need to write a book that I can hand to someone and go stop bringing me I'm busy read this I actually don't have time but I really want to help you and I love you and I and I get so excited and invested in what people are doing and their ideas because I like you know it's obviously takes me back to the beginning and it's just such an exciting thing for people to even want your advice and be wanting to talk to you about it so I like really get into it so I was like I can't just keep doing this I'm just gonna write the book I can't talk about it on Instagram or on a story like I need to really dive into you know every single thought that when you're starting a business that you have the the silliest things you know like yeah how do I find a business partner should I have a contract with them what about URLs what about you know usernames like just little things lawyers accountants what are all those initial little first steps that I didn't find any books that included break it down yeah really broke down the basics for particularly for female entrepreneurs in this day and age you've done very well you've done very very well with that what brand do you wish that you'd founded Monday Swimmer honestly I am so about everything happening exactly how it should that I could I could never say I wish I founded any other brands than my own I think that I'm exactly where I'm meant to be they are me you know they're a part of me and there's many brands that I admire and love and I think are amazing brands and particularly brands that do you know help women in some way and or just help people in general but like yeah honestly Monday's the dream it's amazing and so is the Pilates class and it's just like I'm just so happy that I would never I'd never wish for anything other than what I have that's a lovely answer I like that if you could choose one female figure as a mentor past or present who would it be?

58:54I've been asked this before and my answer to this is also I never believe in really like choosing one person that I want to be my mentor. I've had so many amazing people that I've come have come across my paths or I've come across theirs in my life and I think it's really important to know that everyone you meet has something that they can add to your life and And who I am as a person, I try to be a collection of all of my favorite things about all of my mentors in my life, everyone that's ever helped me, my mother, my father, my family. And I choose what are my favorite things about them? What is it that I love that is a part of who they are?

59:32And I try to make that a part of who I am either personally or as a businesswoman. So it's so hard to answer that question because there's obviously so many people I admire. But I just think that you should pay attention to everyone in your life. and no matter how big or small you never know you know those little weird things that people say that for some reason it implants into your brain forever and it becomes a part of you know who you are and what you believe in and I don't think you can just really get that from one person like I think that it's important to really look at everyone and anyone in this room even you or anyone that I meet could be a mentor to me in some way so I always am just very like just keep Keep your ears open.

1:00:12Learn to sit back, listen, you know, take advice. Don't always be the one that's talking or giving the advice. Make sure that you're just really aware that anyone at any time could say something to you that could change the way you think forever. Yeah. So right. So, so smart. If you could trade one of your current skills for a superpower that would help your business, what would it be and why? Oh, my God. I'd have to trade one. this is the bit that everybody struggles with because it's like do i i like that i want to keep that but what do i want more of um what do you have in abundance that you could lose a little bit of because you've got so much that you would swap for something maybe like ideas because i have so many ideas that i don't actually need as many as i have i could probably like chill out a bit there and then i think my superpower would have to be being in multiple places at once yeah like you've got a lot of times I'm sticking to.

1:01:10Oh my gosh. And just like all the things that we do as being the face of the brand and influencers and having multiple brands and being the CEO of those brands. If I could have like four of me or just be in multiple places at once, it would really help me because I care so much about everyone in our team. And I want to be able to give everyone, you know, so much love and individualized attention. But at some point you have to let go and you have to bring in other people that can help with that. But like, that is hard to let go of so if I could just have more of me more of you that'd be good so you could be everywhere you could be in every territory at once there you go um now I want you to leave a tip because I love this part because we've been getting some real tangible advice from our guests if you could give a listener one piece of advice to a lady looking to launch what would you say I would probably say to really trust your intuition and really listen to yourself and try not to allow you know looking at what other people do you know you always want to listen like I said but you do have to pick and choose what you want to be a part of your belief system or your business or your intuition and I think that a lot of people when they don't have the devon that's building them up and they don't have the situation that I have, they can stray away from what their intuition is.

1:02:35And I think that a big part of what makes our business so successful is that we've just had the freedom and ability to follow our intuition. So I think you should listen to that voice inside your head. You should trust. I think that businesses these days do have to be very unique to survive. I think that you constantly have to be doing something that's different to someone else. And I try as much as I can not to even look at what our competitors are doing because I want to stay in my lane and just trust what it is that feels right for our business. So I think women are very powerful, intuitive people.

1:03:06And I think that being a businesswoman, you almost have to take that to another level and you have to really trust your intuition and know that just because something doesn't work out, it's not because your intuition was wrong. It was because you needed to learn a lesson or you needed to, you know, you always have to figure out what works and what doesn't. So don't ever allow something not working out to like, you know affect your belief in your own intuition that's very good and you know what women have that in abundance like we don't we do when I think of me and my husband oh we'll have a conversation I'm like I've just got this gut feeling that something isn't right with this and he's what are you talking about yeah you're fine you're being paranoid and then like a few weeks later he'll be like you were right about it I know it's a thing we have it it is what it is a very valuable thing to have in business especially because you know we don't have the the ball to tell us the future we don't have that you know no one can tell you what's going to happen next and you do have to kind of navigate that on your own and it can it can you know there's a lot of pressure for us as women in business trust it yeah so you just have to go with the flow and my analogy my favorite analogy that I talk about in my book is I always look at my life and my business as a flowing river and I'm a very visual person.

1:04:25So I imagine myself flowing down a river. And sometimes when everything's going wrong, I realize that I'm clinging onto a boulder and I'm fighting against the current and I'm trying so hard not to go with the things that I should be going with and the signs that have come up along the way. And you can have all these beliefs and you can be this person, but you have to always check in with yourself and revisit and make sure, am I actually doing the things? Am I practicing what I preach? Am I doing those things? and we all fall off sometimes you have to check back in you have to just go with the flow and really that intuition that feeling and that's what I that's the state I thrive in so just checking back in and making sure that you are doing all those things that you believe in you're there for the right reasons you're obsessed with what you're doing and if you're not never be afraid the amount of businesses I've started and closed down within a second you can walk away you can walk away you You know, it's just, and the first business may not be the one.

1:05:23So you do have to really be like open to change, be intuitive, go with the flow, you know, and not be hard on yourself. Just like, just I've made so many mistakes, but for me, they were all lessons and they all add to my portfolio of all the things that as a business woman, I know, and that I've dealt with. And it makes you more and more knowledgeable, the more that you experience and go through. So you can never look at those. Like I said, your health is all that matters. your loved ones their health your health that's a problem that you know we don't have control over if you don't take care of it and that's the only thing for me that I truly you know care about the business I'm like that's all about being proactive productive positive you know maintaining the momentum and all those things you will navigate it will all work out in the end how it's supposed to so yeah just be like gentle on yourself be intuitive be all those things that or what make women so amazing but in business yes you're you're so so right because we don't do that enough you can let outside noise distract you but actually going with your gut is always really important yeah i before we finish i am obsessed with knowing how our guests spend their lunch hour so i'm so curious we talk about ladies who launch i want to know about ladies who lunch what do you order where are you where do you have it how does Tasha's lunch look I order it to my desk and I am working during lunch it's very very rare if I'm traveling and I'm you know with Devon or something traveling we might sit at lunch but I am very guilty of not taking that time to chill it's usually a lunch meeting or I'm working throughout it but one thing that's a non-negotiable for me to balance that out is around three o 'clock every single day I do a 15 minute meditation I'm a big believer of bringing you know down your nervous system and activating your parasympathetic nervous system and I think that with our hormones we're running up here on that adrenaline and everything all day long and it's very important at some point in the day to bring everything down yeah and you know just like actually go down to zero at some point and it's just all the studies around whether you have a nap or a meditation or whatever you do you need to do nothing for 10 or 15 minutes at some point every day and that serves me that serves me more than like you're taking a break at lunch you know or anything like that so I'm guilty of like yeah and what would you have at your desk what's your go-to order in LA in my office about it and you just think just have lunch oh in LA in my office it's zinc it's this delicious salad I have that's like a shrimp sriracha rocket parmesan salad oh wow it's delicious I'm I'm big on the like shaking the salad having this every day it's a salad I'm a salad girl do you know what everybody is yeah no I've I've really noticed that we had like a couple of other little bits but everybody just wants something light that they can have on the go yeah which means they can leave the office a bit earlier and everyone has their go-to right like we eat it like three times a week yeah yeah yeah mine is a spicy tuna from joe and the juice that's become like yum yeah i love that sandwich they have there that's like a tuna sandwich thing yeah and they call it a tuna so good and then i have the one with the jalapeno in and it's like delicious yeah that's just if i'm lazy yeah i think about it and i'm at the desk yeah there we go well thank you so much thanks for having me and thank you so much for creating this podcast to inspire women and you know i think that this is all something that we need to do more of and i'm glad that that's the direction everyone's going in because it is so beautiful and fun and empowering and like i think i think it can be so fun and positive and we just need to keep it light and you know keep lifting one another up but keep it light at the same time exactly that yeah so thank you thank you so much

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