Episode 6: Aimee Smale – How a leap of faith leads to fashion success

0:12Hi guys, I'm Rachelle Humes and this is Ladies Who Launch. Each episode will dive into the journeys of aspirational women who started from scratch and built their dreams into thriving empires. These are the founders, the risk takers, the go getters that are changing the landscape and making their mark in the world of business. We're here to celebrate their wins, dive into their challenges and share the invaluable lessons they've learned along the way. Ladies Who Launch is about sharing the inspiring stories that could empower you to take your own leap. So get ready to be uplifted by the resilience, creativity and unstoppable determination of today's most extraordinary women.

0:52This is your Girls Group Chat for business and beyond.

1:00Our guest today launched her fashion brand during lockdown from her bedroom after taking a leap of faith by leaving her day job at ASOS. From this, she's built one of the most in-demand brands in the UK, known for its refined aesthetic, minimalist style and rapid growth. One product made her over£100 ,000 within the first three months of launching. Her insight is one I wish that I would have had as a young female aspiring to be an entrepreneur. She is here today to share her journey and unstoppable rise within the fashion industry. Welcome to the podcast, Amy Smale. thank you so much for being a guest I'm so excited to talk to you this is like two Essex girls having a good old chat I'm really looking forward to this one so I want to start kind of way back when because obviously Odd Muse was kind of born in like concept you creating it over a lockdown right but before that point you were a buyer at ASOS how did that look so I was actually it was my first job from uni I was a I was assisting a buy-in team so I would do I would like raise all the POs I would check the stock was inbound in um but I always say that that gave me like a really realistic visibility to what it would actually take to launch a brand on like a big scale so units how much cash you would actually need how much time you would actually need to ship stock from China or anywhere else in the world um so yeah then really like tedious admin tasks because my first graduate role was was I honestly think one of the reasons why Odmuse had such a successful start I think it's so interesting because everything you've just described is my worst nightmare that's the bit that I can't bear about being a business that I feel like I've had to learn all of that along the way and the creativity is what I love I love the creative side of it so it's kind of nice that you had that that real understanding as well as being creative yeah I think I think that's one of the reasons why I wanted to go into having a brand because it's exactly that I was maybe lacking the creative side at ASOS but I was still able to like my I was really really lucky with my actual buyer she would get me involved in all the buying appointments I would go to brands and make some selections but that was really it with the creativity side of things um but yeah I was just exposed to so much at ASOS with all these tedious tasks and I guess that's why it that was wouldn't be my worst nightmare but I always wanted to be a buyer like if I didn't start odd muse in my head I was like I want to be a big time buyer I want to be in and out of New York in and out of Hong Kong um so yeah I think I just enjoyed the gritty side of it really and like the numbers and stuff and did you always want to be it was it a fashion buy you always wanted to be fashion buy yeah and the only reason I started plotting and planning odd news was just because I quickly realized that as interesting as buying was I was in I just wasn't going to get anywhere in ASOS right and I also I also recognized that I wanted to do the work but I'm just not that character to be like really sort of competitive in a work environment so if there was like loads of girls going for the job like I just wouldn't I would shy away so I kind of instead quit my job and started a business which is a bit wild but yeah I just felt myself like in meetings just not speaking up and I just started to become more quiet and quiet in ASOS because every day I was like I'm just not going to get anywhere well it's such a big company I suppose it must sort of feel like a bit of a rat race like yeah exactly you're part of a big a machine exactly that and like a lot of people who I used to work with have moved on to other companies now so I kind of think you either need to like jump from company and come to company and and be really cautious of your own progression because companies like that just aren't going to protect it understandably because there's so many people yeah of course and it's so hard to I suppose nurture that many people and like you know invest in that person help them grow when you're trying to grow a business yeah I think the my I think the point where I was like this isn't for me is and I've never actually said this before but I remember the two the two years I was there they cancelled our pay rise the first year and the second year they called me in for a pay rise of 25 pound a month and I was just like you shouldn't have even told me like it left a bad taste in your mouth really did I was just like you they cut like yeah and that's when I realized I can't be here for like two years to only earn like 25 pound extra a month well when you start working so hard yeah and when you start thinking about your own self-value and your own progression and it is kind of it always goes back to that same thing that you've got you have to look after that yeah because you actually can't rely on anybody else to and it's a nice idea to think you know this team of people are propping you up and supporting you and cheering you on but actually they've all got a job to do and they've got their own margins and their own numbers to meet and only you can make you shine I suppose.

6:07Yeah and when you're in a big company like that a lot of things are generalised so if ASOS was struggling maybe the department wasn't yours specifically but overall you're going to take that here. So yeah I just started plotting and planning of Muse over lockdown I had a lot of time on my own. See lockdown did that thing to people didn't it where you kind of just baked banana bread and ate and waited for Boris to tell us we could go out again. Yeah, exactly. Or it sort of really made you productive and creative and excited for, you know, what's to come. Yeah. How, how did you go about planning it?

6:42Because obviously I'm assuming over lockdown, you're still working for ASOS. So you're still, you're working remotely at that time. So how do you go about planning your own brand? So to be honest, I used to plan Odd Muse a little bit from like a sketching point of view, like on my commute to ASOS. So I just used a sketch on my iPad so I had an idea of if I was to launch a brand what the products would be and maybe what the messaging would be because when I started ASOS I remember I was so excited like a lot of my friends are a few years older than me they've been in the workplace a bit longer um so I was expecting to just like come into this money and be able to buy all these clothes and it just worked for any graduate job that just isn't a reality um so didn't have much money and would would go to buy clothes and there wasn't really anything that was above PLT, above Zara, but not high fashion, like high luxury.

7:35There was really no mid luxury price points. Like I wanted to spend a hundred pound on a jacket, but there wasn't really anyone offering me that. Um, so yeah, I just told myself that I was really onto something here, like mid luxury fashion for young people that don't want to shop fast fashion, especially like pretty little thing. Um, so yeah, I just was like I was just ignited like I was I'm just really really onto something here this is what I would want to buy they say the best things happen like self-indulgently don't they because if you feel the real need for it yeah I always say I was like the consumer with the problem offering the solution and that's what they say in business you always need to be looking for a problem that you're essentially going to solve um so yeah that's why I was like this is this is amazing um and then over lockdown I got moved departments in ASOS I got moved to the beauty department and a lot of people at ASOS loved that department but for me I just absolutely hated it because I wasn't doing any more selections in fashion I was just like doing replaying orders for like the pixie glow tonic and just like putting their moulders in with suppliers and all of a sudden like every inch of job satisfaction was taken from me so I would literally get up in the morning put all their moulders through save as much time and just start working on a muse.

8:49Wow that's that That's so interesting because actually, like you said, zero job satisfaction because that isn't your niche. Fashion is the thing that you've got the drive for. But actually, if you hadn't have been given a job that to you feels really mundane, you wouldn't have maybe had the time or the headspace to focus on your own projects. I think I was like 50 % there and then just moving departments and giving it a bit of a go just tipped me over the edge a little bit. I did get moved back to my old department because I was literally crying week on week to come back but there was just a situation where they was going to move someone off and I just said I'm going to go gosh it just literally the morning I quit my job I didn't wake up thinking I was going to quit my job but I just was like this is a sign that I just need to take here and I think also I was 22 at the time and I think anyone who is like that age or around that age you can get another job yeah ASOS wasn't looking out for me I could have got another job at another company but it takes a lot to be that fearless though Amy it really does to say okay we're in lockdown yeah I know this is a real good time to start something new and quit my job like this is it's amazing that you took that leap but not everybody would yeah I just always boil it down to what's going to happen and like the world wasn't going to end if I had to get another job I was so happy to just get into another job and if any of my new workmates asked I'll be like I started a brand but I'm here now yeah yeah I was so willing to like not be embarrassed and I think that's what stops so many people like you see that like don't let the fear of embarrassment stop you from doing what you want to do because I think it's a we live in a time now but that when you fail or well I believe that fail is just a lesson as to you know what to not do the next time but when that happens you do it loudly because part of everything now particularly for you and we'll touch on that in a minute that you share everything you share the highs you share the lows and if something doesn't work out you fail quite publicly now yeah and I think that puts people off embarrassment is definitely I mean embarrassment was definitely like a whole theme for like my first couple years of business like whenever I'd launched a collection it didn't go well people like how did it go or like when I first started Obmuse everyone friends and family be like oh so you're starting a brand and you have to like go through that story and you do feel a bit shy and embarrassed to say it um but you get over it it's fun it's just a reality never let embarrassment stop you from starting exactly it's gonna be a theme throughout your whole journey there's gonna be a lot you're gonna be embarrassed about you might as well get stuck in so how so let's talk about you you quit your job and obviously starting a brand is gonna take some financing how did you get to that point so this is a really random story but during lockdown as well we go back to sort of people baking banana bread and everyone had like their own little small business so I basically taught myself the basics of graphic design I designed odd muses logo and I would do 10 pound logos for all local businesses stop yeah so random that's genius yeah so everyone who was starting a baking business and starting a little Instagram page I would basically do 10 pound logos and at one point I was doing like I think one day I did like over 30 logos um so that was what actually helped me build the capital for Obme's and it over the few months it did develop like I started doing like brochures for like local electric companies and it it become quite a thing and there was a month where I basically took around 10 ,000 pounds and I was like yeah I'll just start my brand now that's amazing I know.

12:29So you just really had, you seem to have that ability to utilise the space that you're in and kind of make hay while the sun's shining. Oh yeah. My mum always says like, if I want to do something, I'm going to do it. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. So you actually designed Odd Muse's logo with that skillset. Yeah. I taught myself a Dave Illustrator and the rest was history. Gosh, I love that. So how much capital did you raise to start Odd Muse? So I started Odd Muse with £12 ,000. Majority of that was spent on stock. The rest of it, I did myself. So I did the logo myself. I set up the Shopify site myself.

13:05I did everything myself. And that main money, which I think when you're starting a brand was all into stock because at the end of the day, your stock is how you're going to get your cash back. Of course. So yeah, it's all on stock. And was it quite hard for you to decide what that first drop would look like? Because I know you focused and you're so known for the blazer aren't you was that a conscious decision or was that like I've got some money here and I've got you know we know what it's like with moqs and placing orders and how that might look was it con was it a conscious decision to say I'm going to streamline this and be known for a blazer or something you know a piece that's going to work really well or was that this is what I'm going to do with the money that I've got I for the blazer I had designed that a long while before launching um so essentially I only when I decided I wanted to start Muse I only had that one product in the bank I did build a bit of a collection around it but none of it really sold um but I remember I got like a 50 unit minimum quantity order with my supplier and I remember with the blazer I was I'm just going to double the blazer I'm really going to take a chance on the blazer because I just know that this is what I want to be known for and this is also what supports what I'm saying like that luxury p that mid-luxury price point that's gonna you're gonna want to re-wear um and also I think where I was launching in lockdown and no one could wear it anywhere I kind of needed to sell you something that you would want to wear when you got out of lockdown excited about and it not necessarily being something you can wear for the weekend this weekend coming because you're in lockdown so yeah that's I suppose that continues to be obviously launching in that space but that continues to be your message isn't it when I look at odd muse and when I think of odd muse it's like incredibly well fitted and it's those kind of timeless shapes yeah that you can continue to wear over and over again easy pieces that you can still like wear and feel like quite elevated in but you've owned them for a long time so what was the moment so so take us so you've got this 12 000 pounds you've you're doing everything you know you are the staff at this point yeah right you get the collection together that you're happy with the moment you press go yeah how do you remember that day clearly yeah what in terms of starting of muse or like getting the stock in the moment you go live the moment you're like okay we've got to this point now I remember I I had always planned to stay at ASOS until the Christmas and I was launching in August and that moment where someone was leaving the team it all happened very quickly that was around two weeks before we launched obmuse but I think I'd sat with the idea for years like traveling to ASOS then lockdown I was so like blindly confident in it um so we launched just at the end of August of 2020 um I remember getting a few orders on the first day but I remember within the second or third week Lorna Lux do you know Lorna Lux yes yeah yeah so so she had basically bought the blazer and I remember I was packing the order and it said like Lorna Andrews and I remember saying to my boyfriend at the time like oh my god like I'm praying that this could for whatever reason be Lorna Lux I was gonna say do you put two and two together I didn't I honestly didn't I like I always say to myself like I loved her so much and I wanted her to wear the brand so much above anyone else in the world because I just through this journey she's become a good friend but back then when I feel like I was like a her biggest fangirl it was because like I love her authenticity like I love how she just genuinely has this fabulous life she's so fab yeah she's so like she comes she comes on stories like me with like no makeup and she just chats to her followers it's so candid and I think it's so rare it's so rare and I think and she's carved out because it takes such time to be that consistent and that committed and I think I will buy anything she's putting on her face.

17:04Yeah, I mean, when I went to ASOS, we'd call it the Lorna Lux effect. Really? Whenever she would use a beauty product or wear anything from ASOS. You would see it. Yeah. So she basically just posted on her story that she had bought this blazer and she's taking it to Paris and my whole iPad just was like flying, like everything sold out and I'd only had 100 blazers but I remember that point it was actually I don't know why I was just in the kitchen with my boyfriend's dad and I just cried to him like I've just broke even and he was like don't know what to do I'm just crying um so I broke even within like two weeks on the whole investment we took like 15 ,000 pounds that day and that she posted and then I had all these people asking me when the restock was and like from a buying point of view we can chase stock so I was literally like right let's like this let's like these skills up um and i put i ordered 700 units with my supplier did not have the money to pay for them 700 units but i put a pre-order live like a week later and i remember that day we took around 60 000 pounds and that was when and that's continued to be a theme for odd muse and while we've been able to scale with no investment because we've always had this pre-order strategy which now we are moving out of like i think we have a goal of but only like 10 % of SKUs on the site now being on pre-order.

18:28But yeah, that's the reason why we've been able to scale with our customers, really. And it's such a smart, you know, for anybody looking to start a business. And because that cash flow and topping up that cash flow, it can be a reason why lots of brands kind of fall, because they might have these opportunities, but being able to sort of maintain that. Yeah, and I think knowing what to do when you are presenting a moment, such as Lorna Lux wearing your blazer or anything like that, knowing exactly what to do because people's attention span is so low now. So especially during them times, it was literally like a three second TikTok scroll.

19:03So I knew I needed to act fast. I couldn't just order these units and tell everyone in six weeks they'd landed. I needed to do it now. And by that point, is it because that is such a big moment to know that you've broken even so quickly? I mean, it's just like, I mean, thank goodness. that's like the position that anybody would want to be in yeah at this point is it just still you or have you got people helping you have you then started to sort of build out a team yeah I mean I definitely I have a lot of I have a big team I have around 35 people um but at that point when all of these sales are coming through oh no it was just me it was like friends and family helping pack orders I didn't I didn't get my first hire until we was like way past 100 ,000 in revenue because you're just like the last thing you're thinking of is get finding 30 minutes to interview someone um so yeah the first like most part of the first year was just me and like my friends helping me pack orders and it's just crazy to think that day someone like Lorna placing that order and I think that's what speaks volumes so much for small businesses you know and at the time you were incredibly small when somebody with such influence speaks and it's not a gift and you know that's really kind of her to share that I bet you was thinking okay when is she in Paris she said I'm taking this to Paris I remember she messaged me back like I'm going to Paris tomorrow to get like my first ever Kelly back and I was like I'm gonna die like this is like my dream this is like my dream like that you've even bought it let alone you're wearing it in Paris to debut your new Kelly and so crazy that she like you say that she was kind of talk of the office at ASOS and that kind kind of yeah it's continued with you on your journey I just don't know how that moment happened um but yeah that was just such a huge moment for me so in terms of like I'm always interested in like strategy in terms of having a strategy has it been a case of it's kind of unfolded and then there's a strategy that comes from them because I can only imagine in those first few weeks everything that was happening for you was kind of beyond your wildest dreams yeah 100 % there was the only strategy was just being social first and just sort of the same way I've just described like how Lorna speaks to her followers like them days for me very much just in I didn't even have a warehouse I had like a tiny storage unit and I'd be on my Instagram stories like I can't believe this has happened I'd be telling everyone I used to work at ASOS but I've quit my job and I'm doing this now and I've kind of continued that I'm always telling people what we're working on even if it over the last four years it's definitely got a bit more complex but I still share it with everyone um and that's yeah that's been our social led strategy the whole time obviously now we do loads we do like google ads and activations and pop-up stores but the main core is always that social lead and 50 % of everyone who comes on our site every day is organically come from our instagram so it kind of carries on and what's so interesting I feel like there's this real kind of hunger now to be you want to know about the founder yeah when you're buying into a brand I definitely like missed that like I didn't have that from anyone so when I was launching I was kind of like I don't have a marketing budget so all I can do is use me as my advantage yeah and share and be that person that I kind of just desperately needed to follow if I had a supplier question or anything random like that or them random little bits when you're starting at the time there wasn't really anyone saying that there was huge brands and you kind of knew the founders but they wasn't sharing that yeah and they don't have to what's interesting is you've kind of I suppose without knowing become the poster girl for brands kind of being a little bit more honest and a little bit more transparent and sharing the founder's story and I feel like this new wave of people really everyone is interested in the founder but I when I think of that kind of play and that strategy I think of you for you was it a strategy or you were just genuinely genuinely sharing no budget and all I had like I was saying look I'm I'm going in there I want to be at the caliber of house of CB I want to be at the caliber of all these other brands what do I have that they don't they've got huge budgets they've got you know a lot of followers and I just come to the conclusion that it was me they don't have me it was a very good light bulb that went off that's also with anyone starting a business no one is you no one is in your every day no one has you know your story so just why not talk about it so I wonder though with that comes with quite a lot of weight and quite a lot of pressure because the job that you do which is obviously it's your baby you're running a brand you're trying to make everything work you're now running a team you know it's a big old kind of it's a hefty weight to carry sharing it at the same time is that does that feel like now a bit more therapeutic for you or does it or does some Sometimes you think, oh, God, I've still got to talk to everyone.

24:00I've also got a, you know, a modelling today. Do you know what? I kind of do it in, I still give myself that grace. Like, if I really don't feel like doing it today, I won't. I do give myself that grace because also I feel like if I was to force myself to get online and talk for a second just for the sake of ticking a box, I feel like my followers would know that. Yeah, oh, of course, of course. And I think they, like, love the fact that I do just, like, come on. Sometimes when I'm not feeling it and I do just want to upload, I will just say what's going on and I've really let go of like trying, I don't care for it to be glamorous.

24:34No, but that's what's so nice. I don't, I really, I feel like there's a bit of a stint with like even mid luxury brands that you, everything has to be like really like almost a bit mysterious, not obvious. No, but I think that is what is, it's that odd muse appeal. And I think that is what is so interesting is that without knowing it, I think you've carved out a space that actually you're seeing more people thinking, oh, she's got the right idea. But it wasn't calculated for you. Now it is a full blown strategy. Like Black Friday, it's like, get online. Now the team are like, Amy, can you just get on there and talk to everyone, please?

25:13Everyone's like, if there's something so certain, they're like, guys, can you just talk about it? Can you talk about this for a second? But I kind of just try and keep it as candid to my everyday, not to product led. Because I don't like to ever feel like anyone thinks I'm trying to sell you something I'm always trying to spread awareness about odd muse but not really from like a sousey no but it doesn't feel like that it feels very it feels very much like we're at work with you or this is your story and this is what you're passionate or excited about yeah I'm I have a lot more pleasure of someone just like following us and enjoying our content over just like purchasing something and not really knowing who we are as a brand and stuff like that I want to touch on sustain in a business financially because I know we spoke about pre-order becoming quite a strong strategy and it's something that really does help brands early on how have you bearing that in mind how also have you managed to scale without having massive financial backing or because we do see it a lot that people get to that point where they're like okay this is going really well but as well as it's going I'm struggling to keep up here how do you think you've managed to sort of stay at an even keel um pre-order definitely is the most part of that I remember very early on maybe like a year in I got into a bit of a situation where I constantly just had to use all my money to replenish the blazers but then I didn't really have any money to work on any like new styles and I kind of needed that second bestseller yes I couldn't just keep relying on the blazer it was working but it wasn't going to last forever um and I I remember at that time I took out like a 20 ,000 pound loan that I put back into Odd Muse to work on newness.

26:59Right. So I don't think loans at the beginning when you can really justify it is a bad thing. Yeah. That's much better than, you know, saying to someone else I can. Here's a bit of my company. Yeah. I think that's, you know, if you're still small and you only need a bit of cash to get you to the next step and you feel really confident in that. I think loans are a good thing at the beginning um but since that that's the only real investment we've ever took if if you would even call that an investment it is really it's it's first of all being smart with your margins which is again what ASOS buying taught me I knew like the minimum percent I needed to be hitting I knew the minimum percent I needed to be hitting if I wanted to wholesale my products one day as well I knew what I knew ASOS were expecting at least a 50 % margin out of everything that they buy um so yeah i kind of margins and pre-order strategy pre-order strategy has also made our products more desirable yes so i am a sucker for that yeah like if i can't have it yet but i've seen it on it looks incredible yeah so for a long still to this day we buy very tight for our launches they sell out and even more people come back for the pre-order but we purposely buy tight because I never want to be left with waste and with a collection I always want to try something new yes so we kind of go we're going low on the units just because we don't know how it's going to go and it protects us just in case it doesn't go well but nine times out of ten our launches always have this effect where it's like they're sold out and people want it and are you finding it gets closer and closer each time because the more you're growing I suppose oh yeah definitely our minimum buyer now has definitely grown a lot over the last four years um and in our like core pieces so like our blazer our jumpsuits when a dress is really sort of like okay this is one that's going to stand the test of time we make sure that's always in stock yes immediate so she's only she only sells out maybe like two or three times and then we'll make sure she's always there on site for someone to buy and I suppose that's really smart as well because like you say everybody and I am like a marketeer's dream by the way if something seems like I can't have it just yet but I've fallen in love with it I'm that person that's like but then you only have a short kind of attention span so after a little bit you're like okay I want to know that it's there now so it's quite a smart play isn't it everyone knows for like a new order muse launch you do have to be online and if you are online like five minutes later you do run the risk of going to pre-order so our customer is very like she knows that they know they know how this works they don't want to miss out yeah yeah I want to talk a little bit about because there's so much success that's happened for you in such a short space of time you know if we're talking 2020 it's not yeah we can all remember that like yesterday it's really not long ago and we're talking Forbes 30 under 30 the London store which is you know having a store in Covent Garden is just huge the pop-up store in New York which I've loved watching play out and even down to like watching the interior design and watching it all come together I've loved looking at it all with great success there has to be challenges because that's just not realistic right and you know if only it was just an uproad to success has there been a moment that you thought right okay we might need to rethink this here uh yeah so many times there's been I mean the last like four years has been like week on week a problem that I like don't know the answer to yeah and it's I'm like a bit scared of what's going on but then I'm scared of someone asking me what the solution is so being that like person for the first couple of years of business is hard because you kind of just want to be like I don't know but you kind of have to know so I think that's just been like a running theme I think it's definitely been a huge sacrifice in my time like I travel a lot I started the brand when I was 22 and I have dramatically become a different person like I when I was 22 I just used to have like so much fun as all 22 year olds do and I feel like it has just made me a bit more of a serious person because the responsibility whenever I have free time I literally just need to lay horizontal at home like I don't really like if someone asked me to do something on the weekend I can be a bit miserable so I think yeah I think it's definitely been that I think before I moved out I always think back to like them last couple of years when I was living with my parents I kind of regret how I maybe come across because I'd get in every night like absolutely floored they just want to know about my day it's so exciting I've started this business and I'm just like please don't ask me about work but with all the excitement does come so much stress yeah so much uncertainty yeah and you know times that are going to be yeah it's a bit of a roller coaster sometimes in the last four years we could literally be going into like a family gathering and I just say to my boyfriend I really hope no one asks me about work and he'd be like they're gonna ask you about work so yeah it's kind of been like that it makes sometimes it can make you a bit of a miserable person I know exactly what you mean because it doesn't and that's not me like I am typically like there's just certain certain weeks and months that it just gets you and I feel like a little bit it's like an out-of-body experience like I'm not myself like there's been so many periods of time over the last four years where I'm like I'm not myself um but now I'm like 27 I've got three years to 30 and I'm just really like more but I'm not more bothered about myself but I'm kind of just like putting myself yeah and odd music like a similar I do think that happens I think like for myself there was like a 30 light bulb that went off that was like I don't know why that I'm like 35 now but something about turning in 30 I felt really self-assured I started saying no a lot more I was such a yes person and I think I was always scared and I think maybe that's like the working class self-employed kind of mentality that I would will always find hard to shake yeah I think something goes off when you're actually come on now like I'm in my own I felt like I was yeah in my own body a little bit more and I think yeah and I think there's something that does happen yeah and it will it will kind of dawned on me I think last year we did fashion week and it was like an amazing experience and everyone asked me was that was that the best day of your life I was like no it was so stressful it was like chronic stress but you often hear that I don't want to remember things like that like New York I made it a conscious effort to get more people involved and make it more of an enjoyable experience and now I can look back on the New York pop-up and be like that was a big project but it was like the best thing I've ever done yeah such a good time in New York and but I think that's learnings as you go isn't it and I think that's part of the growth that actually you realize that these opportunities as incredible as they are they're really short-lived yeah and sometimes if you don't like sort of pinch yourself in the room and act a little more yeah present like my mum and she says it to me a lot of the minute like be where your feet are like just be in it because actually you're probably thinking okay this is great but actually I've got to place that order and this is happening tomorrow and it's really easy not to kind of yeah celebrate every milestone yeah 100 but I do think them years where you just like completely like flatten yourself and you're just you're just agile to whatever the brand needs that has led to the success yeah so I don't have too many regrets I'm just like I just need to switch it up yeah and it's character building too yeah like and also if you can get out of the trenches yeah I find and you know how to do it you'll always compare it like we had quite a um we had a bit of a legal situation earlier on in the year and for us it was like at the time it was so heavy and all I could think of and every time my lawyer called I thought I just want to throw this phone out the window however it was like it's it's only shown growth since and it was all business related but actually it's now like a benchmark of yeah this time field time is really stressful but it's not that and we've been through that so I think there's always that leveler isn't there where you're like yeah you know things can yeah at the time appear heavy but you can kind of yeah so I think that's been the challenge really just like the sacrifice yeah and just getting through it yeah but now but like you said as soon as you're aware of it you kind of live life yeah a little bit different was there a particular collection that didn't pan out as well as you thought or hoped it would oh 100 % um with coming out of like the blazer sales and the blazer beans such a success I didn't know what that next collection was yeah and I failed so many times so I did I mean I did a massive um summer collection and we did like a big party in LA for it and none of it sold and that really taught me that really taught me my original strategy like less is more but good product is everything whereas I kind of got like very happy and just designed this collection which wasn't odd news and it didn't make sense but I thought I could just back it with a big party in LA I'm so glad I learned that early on because we went straight back to our original strategy and I really wanted to start doing dresses and I constantly told myself well odd news is this seasonless brand we need to be doing every day where it can't be a dress but then I kind of landed on wanting to release a dress that you would maybe pull out every Christmas and it didn't have to be like your everyday wardrobe but it was still something that you'd hang in your wardrobe and you'd always go back to and that was the birth of our Pell dress which was our second moment I always say it was like my second lifeline because I was really getting to a point where every collection was fading I didn't know who Obmuse was beyond this blazer and then we released this dress in 2022 the Christmas of 2022 and it just changed the game totally I remember the first two years of Obmuse we was only really seeing sales in america wasn't really seeing many in the uk that's interesting and then when we released this dress we was we had so many orders in the uk we've kept that odd news uk customer um and we essentially become a dress brand we do bridal now we sell like every single day top five bestsellers a dress wow so getting into the dresses category was really through failure um and yeah that really changed the game now we're trying to go back a little bit because dresses they have high returns a lot of people will buy four dresses and you're constantly competing especially in the bridal market so now I'm kind of like I have this customer that's I've had so many customers that's bought a dress from me but maybe she does want like a pair of really cool jeans or something like that so I think we're trying to like move into other things now but keeping our dresses constantly on site but yeah there was definitely that point where I just didn't as a designer or I needed to get better like I needed to be a better designer um and yeah the pearl dress really like taught me I'm a dress designer 100 % through and through and what's so interesting is also knowing I suppose what your customer wants next I think that's kind of that's a really hard thing to especially when you're not like a trend-led brand um but if you look at obmuse products they are very inspired by what's worked before so like a strapless dress a capsid dress a pearl dress everything's sort of very inspired by that so we kind of always look back on like oh what did she like last year what was the best seller here and moving forward in that thing and that's that is so nice that you say that you're not necessarily trend led yeah it's kind of good pieces for your wardrobe all year round be looking at what you know celebrities wearing on the red carpet and stuff like that you're always going to find yourself competing with fast fashion and like other brands that do tend to do that yeah so we always go by what our customer how interesting though that you're saying that actually you're you're now known as a dress brand you actually are because I know it started with the blazer and that was kind of your first moment but I think of you as a dress brand I really do but having to fail or learn lessons in that space has made you what you are now which is a really is that it's having that outlook that we spoke about earlier some of muses like stuff we bought out in 2021 just haunts me does it yeah like majorly but it was such a good lesson i was like i learned that my customer doesn't really like color unless it's like really highly requested like a red at christmas yeah it's like a classic color like a nice car going into full um and just yeah i just learned so much about her and also like i matured a lot in the way in which i dress from 22 to 27 so it's kind of grown with me as well yeah because it's quite crucial like ages aren't they but there's a lot that's going to change between 22 and 27 I would hate to look at pictures of what I was dressing like at 22 you know yeah kind of being responsible for a brand as part of that is quite a lot of pressure when you're finding your own feet yeah 100 % is there anything about being a founder that has kind of surprised you that you didn't expect um well that's a really good question I don't know oh is it every day a surprise yeah really yeah I can't really pinpoint um I think what surprised me is how far we've actually taken it so everyone all I remember everyone always asked me what's the five-year plan for obmuse and people have always asked me that from the beginning but honestly like it wouldn't have been this like what we're doing now if someone asked me in 2020 it would have been to maybe have like a hundred thousand followers on instagram to be able to sustain my own like employment without having to go back to work and like we're just like way beyond that um so I think yeah I think the biggest surprise is New York like I like when you see in that queue outside like across the pond it's just like crazy like I was saying to the girls leading up to I think we can get 20 people outside I think we can get 20 people and there was like 300 people around the block every single one of them knew about odd news like when we had the queue outside London we were kind of by the time we got to the end of the queue we'd be speaking to girls and they'll be like I'm just joining the queue like I can't know what's going on what's going on whereas in New York around the block every single person was like odd music's finally in America like we've been waiting we haven't ordered yet because we want to try for our size and it was just like the most surreal experience I can only imagine surprise yeah because I really you just don't think you're you just I just didn't think my brand would travel like that and look at it yeah but what like what's next like what do you aspire to now because that is just a dream like June and we did it for for November so I'm very last minute with everything I do so I go to China next week and all the girls are like getting ready for me to be like we're doing this we're dropping this dress I've designed this dress I've made this one here that's what I need to work on I need to be like what that's your time keeping yeah I get like a sec yeah time management time really like really I should have like my summer collection designed but I'm gonna go to China and just do it so everyone's like I really hope you do it because you kind of need to but isn't that sort of you can see like how your face lights up when you talk about that like that's your buzz yeah yeah but for everybody else I would love I would doesn't always work out that way and it's a little bit stressful and we need to get it done especially when you're working with wholesalers um but yeah that's what i need to work on next year i can't believe you turned around i'm just actually just actually registered to me june to november the turnaround for new york that's wow that's quite something i only approved the space in like when i flew there in october yeah gosh we can work under pressure yeah yeah that's giving pressure quicker i like that i like that and right we're gonna do a rocket round now so basically it's quick fire and we i like a waffle so we'll try and do these kind of non-negotiables as quick as possible okay speaking of what are the non-negotiables you feel for when launching a business oh i think i'm gonna try not waffle too non-negotiable i think knowing that you need to sacrifice all your time and like being prepared for that um when launching a business you need to sacrifice money a lot of people get very scared to spend money a lot of people will i'm gonna try not waffle here but a lot of people maybe put all their money into product and they won't have a marketing plan you should at least be doing like a little bit on ads and stuff like that that's like the second piece um and i think yeah i think that would be that knowing that it's going to take time and money yeah and being realistic with that yeah yeah when did you first realize that you truly launched and made it um when i did the 700 units on pre-order that was just like sitting on the stairs looking at my mom and dad like do i say that i've just made 60 000 pounds or do i just sit here on the stairs and just yeah so that was the moment is this right am i reading this right i did an article with business insider a week later and that's how they found out they was like sorry what and I was like yeah I wasn't really gonna disturb your night and say that gosh yeah how do you even keep that to yourself I just was like stunned so yeah that's I love it was like that and like laid awake all night looking at the scene and like what is this it's just like I was in trouble did you yeah because now there's a lot of work attached to those 700 pre-orders like what is this okay is this right so yeah probably that moment i love that what do people usually seek your advice for supplier stuff like how to find a supplier how to actually manufacture i feel like there's just not enough like content online for it so that's probably the main thing someone's going to call you they'll pick your brains about that thing when i was like oh i just need a founder to just answer this question that was that was it for me as well can you answer that question whilst we're here i'm going to interrupt the rocket round absolutely so with suppliers I think you definitely need to figure out where in the world you want to manufacture us so when I was at ASOS I was on premium brands so I was working with a lot of like mid-luxury Australian brands because mid-luxury has always been a thing there and I just knew where I knew that they was important from China and I just honestly I had about 150 conversations with different suppliers in manufacturers and in manufacturers in China um I would ask them what their lead time was because obviously if they was going to turn around and be like 300 minimum quantity order I'd have to say no um if they told me what other brands they worked for I would normally say no because I don't want them to disclose that about me yes um and yeah I ended up landing on someone who was very much like me she just started her business and it was just a very lucky thing I landed on but yeah that I've so many pages of google and talking to everyone okay okay yeah ask as many questions as possible so my first year of obuse was like leaning into my supplier like she was my business mentor i would be like i know this is a silly question but i need like a really high quality zip what's a high quality zip and she'd tell me we need a whack ak zip and she would like take me through everything so whole first year is just asking questions yeah and it's not feeling silly they want your order at the end of the day so they're gonna answer your questions so really leaning into suppliers like they are like your business mentors yeah that's good advice I love this question what brand do you wish that you'd founded oh that's a good one oh my god I don't know odd muse is really my dream brand like I'll be honest I don't want that to come across no it doesn't yeah it's something that odd muse is really like my dream brand from like inside out um and yeah it was kind of carved from what i felt like i was lacking as someone who really wanted that so i don't really know how to answer that question you've answered it yeah you founded your dream is quite cool though oh wardrobe my yeah i love that one sometimes when they release a brand release a brand when they release something i'm like it's it can it's very odd music only i'm like i wish i thought of that oh really that's so interesting yeah i love wardrobe and my thing yeah and when they do a drop it's kind of yeah yeah so just like very just like clear concise to the brand so wardrobe and my see okay okay i like that if you could choose one female figure as a mentor past or present who would it be do you know what i would still i think grace beverly she's she's become quite friendly since i've done her podcast but i remember going to her podcast i was like so nervous and i felt really inspired by her and I feel like she's juggled a lot and she's dealt with a lot and we're like a similar age um so yeah I've always found her really really inspiring she seems like the best multitasker ever like I always feel like she's spinning so many plates there actually she's so productive like and her planner like I just don't know if I could run my business without it really yeah like it's just so well thought out and just the way in which she plans her days is like she needed to put that in a planner gosh that I mean that's the bad best advert she's gonna get yeah so from like a productivity point of view but also like she's dealing with like a huge business and like a lot of people and stuff and she's doing it pretty well and she seems to make it fun I feel on the outside I feel like it seems very founder-led as well so I think yeah probably grace okay yeah if you could trade one of your current skills for a superpower that would help your business what would it be and why i think mine if this is a superpower would be right now to clone myself that that's incredible that like to just have like just to just be able to be two places in one time but be able to like yeah that would be another day so much easier when you find the route into doing that and there isn't some scary conspiracy theory on instagram please tell me yeah That would just be incredible, wouldn't it?

48:51Clone yourself. I give up everything for that. Yeah. And you know that it's another version of you, so it's going to be done in the way that you're comfortable with. Yeah. So definitely to clone if that is a superpower. It's a superpower. Yeah. Yes, definitely. So each guest, I ask to leave a tip to our listeners, someone sort of that could be inspired by your success. If there was something you wish you'd have known, what would that be? I think for me, because it took me so long to start, I think you just need to take everything out of it for a second all the emotion all the fear of starting and understand that research is free developing your skills with you know the resources available online is mostly free um so if it's a fashion brand start sketching start speaking to suppliers even if you don't know if you're gonna do it get all these things lined up before you even have to start worrying about how much money it's gonna cost you how much time it's gonna cost you whether or not you need to quit your job just sort of like start on all them things because it's going to be character building it's going to like like your skills are going to develop by the time you launch um so yeah kind of start it as a hobby first yeah that's what I did with Obmuse let it be your hobby and let just fall in love with it for a second before you invite all the stress that's such good advice because like you say then everything that you've been studying in your spare time when it wasn't as stressful yeah we'll always come back yeah and it kind of protects your creativity as well when I was starting when I was first thinking about odd muse and putting all the ideas in I really wasn't like I didn't know if I was going to go to market so I wasn't really thinking about how much it was going to cost and how much time I'd have to put into it it was more fun yes so try not to take the fun out of it at an early stage yeah because the fun will get taken out of it that's gonna happen don't you do it exactly that and I am incredibly nosy right yeah so we hope that our listeners will listen to this in their lunch hour and get inspired yeah to launch their own baby however that looks but I love to know how people spend their lunch hour it's something I'm so interested in what do you order what do you eat do you make something do you step out the office for lunch how does your lunch break look on a day to day oh god my dream lunch break would honestly be spending like 40 minutes making like a really nice complex salad oh okay really like I love cooking it's the only thing that I will do that like my mind is only on the dish yes um but I don't get that every day my life like every day is different so sometimes it's just like a sandwich but my dream lunch is just taking 40 minutes at home to just like really prep a chef style salad and how good do you feel by the way when you've done that when you kind of feel like you've nailed it yeah I feel like the rest of the day is just like easy you arrive into work with your little prepped lunch like shaking your salad yeah smug that's like my yeah that's my dream okay and do you have your lunch at your desk or do you step away or do you take time for yourself honestly it's so different like a lot at the moment I'm like very much at home trying to design as much product as possible so it's a little bit like lost it's working rolling off the sofa like making that salad um so it's a little bit all over the place a lot of the time I'll have lunch and meetings and stuff like that I'm like sorry guys it's my mouthful sorry about that can I eat do you mind um but yeah the dream is just like a salad at home just like quiet no one just on my own phone on airplane mode for a second yeah yeah that's my dream well thank you so much how'd you spend your lunch break oh that's a really good question i at the minute i feel like i'm very i've been very lazy on the prep i feel like every life's got in the way a little bit oh yeah i only probably get like one or two times a week yeah yeah so i'm like taking out yeah a salad yeah like a tuna cardo i'm opposed to tuna spicy tuna yeah but yeah it depends where I am but I do I'd we do quite I like to say okay let's have lunch yeah and let's kind of step away from this at the minute but yeah it depends if you're working from home working from home is throwing a spanner in the works because I feel like you're just grazing all day yeah with your laptop and something next to you yeah yeah yeah but I do like to stop normally see it's good it's interesting isn't it I want to know what everyone's eating um thank you so much it's been so good to chat to you and you are kind of just smashing it honestly I I know that from when it's you.

53:21When you told me the line-up, I was like, why am I here? No, are you joking me? You were like, you were on our first list of people. We are, everyone's obsessed with you. And I think what you're doing, I think sometimes it's overwhelming. And you think when you're in it and you're so involved, it's so hard to see how much you're shining on the outside. But you're shining, girl. Oh, thank you so much. You really are. Thank you. This is like a career highlight for me. Stop. Stop making me blush. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

53:55so good to talk to amy if you are someone who is thinking of entering order fashion i think she shared such tangible insights into her world i hope you like that as much as i did don't forget to follow us on apple and spotify or wherever you get your podcasts so that you don't miss out because next week we're going to be talking to another incredible lady who launched if like me you're a watcher follow us on youtube and make sure that you like and subscribe