Gigi & Olive: How 4 Business Pivots Built a Seven-Figure Brand

0:00Today's guest is Georgie Le Roux, founder and CEO of Gigi and Olive, a luxury bridal accessories and personalized gifting brand that's grown into a seven-figure business after four major pivots. Georgie has grown the business by over 85 % year-on-year, proving that sometimes the biggest growth comes with not changing your customer, but understanding them more deeply.

0:20Georgie Le Roux: Five, four, three, two, one, zero. All links and links. A light bulb moment launches your business, but consistent habits power it every day after. Today's episode is powered by Starling. Whether you're side hustling or scaling, Starling believes that with the right mindset and tools, anybody can be good with money. It's not about complex number wrangling or losing days to admin. It's creating a smart system of financial habits that can give you active control and build your confidence so that you can focus on being a founder, not the finance team. Search Starling Business to find out more about their monthly fee-free business account.

1:00I'm so pleased you're here. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really so excited to be here. Honestly, I love everything that your business is. I'm obsessed with personalisation. I'm obsessed with anything bridal. And for someone that's already married, 14 years it will be this year. Congratulations. I'm just trying to remember that that's the right my 14 years um thank you we said to each other that we'd renew our vows every 10 yes i just love it love it so much and i try to sort of influence my friends do the same because you get to a certain point where like the weddings have dried up and there's no one getting married i know that's i'm i'm almost getting to that now um but my husband's actually a few years younger than me so i've been able to kind of like yes out for longer yeah i'm ready for my sisters to start so fun do you know doing stuff because it's only fun if you're close to them a hundred percent yeah it means more absolutely so anyway I'm excited about all of this but for those that are listening to this and don't yet know where have you been eh um but tell us a little bit about Gigi and Olive and what you do yes so um I launched the business in 2019 as a sort of answer for all things chic hem party bridal gifting personalized gifts for every occasion to do with the wedding so I started really focusing on hem parties but then over the years we've really evolved into much more you know we do anything from engagement bridesmaid proposals wedding favors honeymoon gifting we basically want to be the destination that the bride comes to as soon as they get engaged well I think you've blooming well nailed that because I honestly when I um I spoke to one of my girlfriends as I said that you were coming on, she was like, I absolutely love them.

2:40I literally love hearing that. And they're on the Pinterest board. And I think for you, it must, the more kind of trends that we see, because I think about, as I said, I've been married 14 years, as I think about sort of the way that things have changed throughout that time. So different. What people are wearing now. And I remember it was all the rage to have like a Juicy Tracksuit with like bride and crystals on the back. It's coming back. It's coming back. Well, I've got one of them. You're ready? Storage if you need it. And I think of like the waves of like doing this for the bridesmaid and the idea of a bridesmaid proposal.

3:14Like that was just not a thing then. So I think as trends grow, I suppose you've got to, while staying true to what you do, you've almost got to strike with the iron's heart and be the first one offering something in that space. Absolutely. I think that when I launched in 2019, as you say, like the wedding space, the gifting space was so different. I mean, Etsy was a completely different marketplace to what it is today. And there really wasn't anyone in the UK offering something where engaged women could come and get really excited about their bridal journey. And I think in America, you know, they're so good at like gassing each other up.

3:51Oh, my God. It was so exciting. Whereas I think especially like 10 years ago, eight years ago, there was kind of this almost like negative stigma around hen do's. It was quite like eye rolling. and I really wanted to kind of make this moment really exciting again and have women be like okay this is exciting because I can get all these personalized things I can make this really special for my sister yes um whereas everyone else sort of in on the journey with you exactly it's much nicer you know women don't want to spend money on tap that basically just goes in the bin afterwards so take me back to sort of your love for weddings and beautiful design where did where did that come from?

4:31Yeah I before I started Gigi and Olive I worked in hospitality I was in clubs restaurants bars and I think my obsession was more with like events and hosting and things coming together I've always been a people person I love being with people and I think that hospitality teaches you to be customer facing and so I've always been obsessed with the customer I'm very the customer's always right um even when maybe they're not they're still right I agree but they don't know they're not they don't know they're not exactly um and through that through sort of private events and at some of the restaurants that I worked at we also did weddings I just loved this idea of that being like the ultimate event essentially um and as I said when I first started I really wanted to create something beautiful for that hen do moment because I didn't think that existed and it's just really evolved over time into being able to hit those other moments of your kind of bridal journey essentially and I think it's also just been a huge timing thing like social media has grown with this wedding moment and it's played a really large part in you know brides wanting to be a part of our Gigi and Olive journey essentially.

5:47I assume when you launch you launch with a specific collection a specific offering and then how does that evolve with your customer because I can imagine that there are so many trends now when it comes to bridal like you say it's kind of there's a whole new world with the way that social media has sort of taken weddings under its wing I remember specifically if you look at um Sophia Richie now Grange like that iconic iconic only a couple of years ago a few years ago now um but the way that social media was obsessed with that wedding and like every moment playing out from something like that you'll I assume notice such a big trend whether that's in like personalized I don't know hankies or however that might look how do you let those trends detect dictate what you're doing because it is I suppose quite a classic thing that you're offering yes but equally you want to be the first to those moments it's hard I think weddings in general bridal in general has a longer life cycle than fashion so what I mean is that you know in fashion you basically want the it season item and next year it's no longer relevant but the thing is is that brides are engaged for 18 months 24 months these days they're engaged for quite a long time and so a trend or an item that they might see this summer they're still pinning it they still want that when they're getting married for their wedding yeah and they don't mind that it's it's been the rage this summer so we more have probably like on like core items we probably have like a two-year trajectory and obviously you then kind of see the the peak and the and the trough of that but we definitely do have a slightly longer lead time I think when I started I started with such a different business model and wow tell me why I love I love to hear this I was basically like I thought that the product probably existed already like I wasn't a designer so to speak and I thought that I wanted to build like the net-a-porter of like a bridal space which maybe I hope I've kind of done now but I thought the product already existed so I basically went to brands that I loved that I thought I'd love to wear this on my hen you know I think it was like Hunza G for the swim love um And I basically stocked a range of brands.

8:08I think I launched with about seven brands. And I quickly realized it was so expensive to do. And you're also then competing with the net-a-portes and the matches of the time. If you're buying the same brands, you can't compete with how much they're buying and any of the discounting either. And I also quickly realized that actually there were items that didn't exist that my customer wanted. So I basically went and found a seamstress and we made our first collection of mini veils, which is something that we're kind of like known for. And that was sort of before that moment was really happening in the airport.

8:43Now everyone loves wearing a mini veil at the airport. And actually, because of COVID and weddings getting cancelled, people also then we saw this huge trend into civil ceremonies and people wanting to wear a veil at their civil ceremony, but not wanting to spend like a crazy amount like your wedding day. but maybe you still want like a nod and something like that so the first iteration was almost like a wholesale you know multi-brand retailer and then I started working on designing our own products and then we launched like embroidered handkerchiefs and we then started to I I say we it was just me I then started wanting to do more and more personalization essentially um and that's really the direction the business then moved towards and how does that look from like a sort of hands-on a staffing point of view because once you're if you're selling you know other products right I suppose that you sit on a certain amount of I don't know we'll use Hunza for an example of their stock and you're then shipping that out how does that work then when you decide to go okay we're going to get a seamstress in house we're now going to give this offering I always wonder this when it comes to kind of these bespoke offerings okay I want Mrs Humes to be on the back of yes a sweatshirt I don't know but of course I do for all of course I absolutely love it um how what does that then look like in-house does that then go okay this is a great idea now everybody's seen that you can personalize these jumpers on I don't know an influencer now I've had this many orders is that quite a panic moment for you logistically did that change the business it changed the business I think at the beginning because it was just me I basically you know I wasn't 100 % sure where the business was going to go and like I pride myself on being quite a flexible person so you know there's not an ego here like if my if the customer is interested in that item like let's go and try and do more of that if they're interested in that let's go that way so at the time I was just working with the seamstress and she had an embroidery machine and so the orders were coming through and I basically would put on a spreadsheet oh my god this is honestly giving me anxiety it was so manual it was like a google doc and I would like write in what the person wanted put their font color put their thread choice all this kind of stuff um and then she would click like received and then every week I would go and collect them I mean it was a very long lead time and it was super manual but I saw that the um you know the want was there from the customer and in 2021 was when I basically went and got a studio and then I bought an embroidery machine and hired my first two members of the team and one of them was like a seamstress embroidery specialist essentially um and once we had the machine it was then different because it was like okay we can be um flexible here more reactive yeah we can offer different things and we can show people what we're doing on social media but having a personalization business is so complex yeah I can only imagine it is a nightmare and behind the scenes obviously we are scaling it and I think I've learned so much of how to do that but it's really it is very very different from going to a 3PL and being able to just barcode a little stuff I honestly that's that's exactly where I asked the question I we do like baby shower bundles and stuff on my little cocoa and we do like newborn sets yes and at one point we thought of like having towels and personalizing and I it put I put me off because I honestly thought this is at the minute we can bundle these sets as they come in we can bundle the orders we can pre-bundle but the idea of it just felt like an extra thing to worry about and that could go wrong it's a big extra thing and I think that honestly it breaks every operational efficiency yeah personalization because the customer also doesn't understand why they can't change their order and if you can do this can you also do this and I think one of the great things about offering personalization is you are able to be flexible so you know if you if you came and said to us like I love this but could I have it this way like we'll always try and make it work but at the scale that we're at now changing things in motion actually leads to more complexity yeah um and you know we basically we've you know we have a completely different system to how I originally worked it's no longer manual like the order comes through running over to get pick up the no but it was for a really long time um and then you know when we when we bought that first embroidery machine I remember um you know the one seems just I had like she went on holiday which is allowed and um actually and um I remember we had this request for like 20 caps for these influencers and I was like I better get on the machine then um and so you know I I'm very much like taught myself how to use all of that and I think that's just what you have to do in those days but now we're at a great point where we have efficiencies and we have a way that we work things but I also think the thing with personalization is actually reducing the customer option is better and creates a better conversion rate because I think when you give people too much choice it can actually be really overwhelming oh 100 and someone like me would go actually maybe we could try this one in this color and do and I think and then for you that's receiving the order would be like gosh this is problematic there's a lot happening here how apart from the kind of I suppose the initial sense of relief when you made those first two hires did it feel scary because you've also now got this responsibility that you didn't have before Yes, I think, you know, definitely as you grow, you get to this point where you do really need help.

14:25And especially when you, you know, at that point, the business was also made to order. So all of the veils that we were making, we were making them as we went, which was also, you know, I definitely feel like I've created the most complex business I could have. but I think my my my original thinking around that was that you know I didn't know what was going to work so I didn't want to buy loads and loads of stock and so I thought let's offer you know all these options and then people can choose what they want and we'll just make them as they go we're trying to please the consumer and the customer on the other side makes perfect sense you're trying to work out what's working and but then the thing is like if you have a viral moment or if you have um you know a real demand for something you can't keep up either so it that also like creates a lot of stress and tension on on that type of business as well so I think it's about getting to a place where you're able to be at a scale and a size where you can really create efficiencies through software through the offering and through getting that right like we do not offer like 50 different thread colors because you wouldn't be able to choose what shade of red you want you know you just want to know is there maroon and is there bright red or something like yeah yeah yeah just simplifying it simplifying it so that it helps someone choose exactly what they want I suppose it helps the customer but it also helps you when you receive the order and now that all comes you know we built something on our site so that the customer can see that preview before they couldn't and that was also really stressful because people would email in and be like I love the idea of sage green as a thread color but like what does that actually look like and you're basically there like then taking photos of thread colors and it actually then looks different when it's embroidered on a cap and yes so yeah and i can imagine if if like the personalization piece it's quite a difficult thing if somebody then you know the order comes and it's not for them and it's not how they for so you know i mean it being we had to turn that that all feels like in one way it's amazing because it stops returns yes um so anyone who's chosen something that's that's completely custom like obviously they can't return unless there's a fault with it but it does create doesn't stop people emailing to give it a go though absolutely not and you know they also I think it's really interesting like a couple of weeks ago I saw I saw a dm come through and it was someone who was really upset that the date of what she'd chosen was wrong it was 2025 not 2026 on um an engraved item and I you know was talking to the team when we go through everything in trade every week I was saying well how's this happen but she'd actually chosen 2025 and her point was I don't understand why no one didn't check with me but the thing is we're just too big to be checking people's orders and also we literally used to do that at the beginning and then someone would be like we have um it's for our wedding anniversary yeah you know there are all these reasons why people are actually putting past dates so I have learned that the longer the time span is between the customer placing their order and it getting to them the longer there is in them changing their order and wanting to like alter it in some way yes so the best thing that we can do as a personalization business is to get it out as soon as possible which we do so everyone receives their orders within 48 hours and they ship within 48 hours and it's just really important and that started it's done there's no changing your mind it's gone yeah got it exactly enjoy we spoke about trends what do you foresee being i suppose we're kind of here we are in summer aren't we yeah or what are you noticing is the biggest bridal trend of the summer yes I think it's um this like nod to nostalgia uh people really are incorporating you know something of the past into their wedding we see a lot of sort of like vintage film cameras and love it and um you know we've seen quite a lot of like projection of films on walls at weddings and things like that but also people utilizing maybe their mom not wearing their mom's wedding dress but maybe there's something they've taken from that like a veil or things like that embroidery is massive for us um and I think that that leads leans into that trend because people want something that feels really timeless whether that's you know handwritten um embroidery on a handkerchief from their mom or something um they want those keepsakes yeah and they want something that feels really special.

18:53Yeah. What would you say has been the wedding of the year so far? If you was looking at like celebrity influencer, like, you know, big weddings that we've all looked on. I would say that Dua Lipa's was really up there. We were obsessed. We were honestly watching it like it was a TV show. The night before. Stunning. In the Bottega. Stunning. I just, no, I can't. And like, they just, everything felt very authentic and genuine and she just looked incredible. And obviously we were seeing it, right? There was a lot of noise around it because we wanted it, but it didn't feel like that was coming from them.

19:26No, no. Which was quite nice. I mean, probably not for them because it meant there was a million paparazzi probably invading that moment. But it was quite nice that we saw bits of it, but it wasn't being like forced at us. It was beautiful. It was just like perfect. What a bride. What a bride. I mean, she was never going to be a bad bride, was she? I want to talk about sort of starting with the customer. Yeah. And not with product, because as I sort of hear more about your story, I feel like that's really sort of quite an apt phrase for what it is you're building. And I think what struck me most about your journey is that on paper, it looks like you've had maybe lots of different businesses, you know, with the retail side, with, you know, the personalisation side and so on.

20:10But you're actually serving the same woman all along. So how did you get to a place of sort of realizing, actually, this is what the bride wants or what the woman wants. And I will evolve in whatever way I need to to make sure that she's getting that service. Yes. So when I first when we were first just sort of DTC e-com business, that was probably the first two years. And then I'd say it was from 2021 when I started building a team and, you know, having this more flexibility on personalization. we wanted to um get these larger orders through wedding planners for wedding favors so if there's sort of like a luxury wedding planner who's you know doing duolipus wedding or someone's wedding and they will come to us and they'll basically say this is the artwork this is the monogram and we'd love you to embroider it on x amount of caps or towels or whatever it is so that was like a really clear market that i saw because the thing about wedding planners is they are all actually small businesses in themselves and they they scale up and they scale down based on the events that they're taking on so they bring on freelancers and things like that but they are really really busy and they are doing a lot of operations and they would love to find what I thought they'd love to have a partner where it's like if you need any merch if you need any items I'm here yeah call me we'll get it done all these different individual suppliers for the bottles exactly exactly yeah makes perfect sense um and so that's kind of how like the b2b side of the business started and then i think there was also this natural um thing that happened with beauty brands i think a lot of our customers probably work for beauty brands and so they'd have something for their hen and then they'd be like by the way we're doing this influencer activation lunch could you do 20 embroidered napkins or whatever yes yes yes we can um so basically just saying yes to everything and we really grew this sort of b2b personalization side of the business you know you can come to us and get one napkin you can come to us and get a hundred or a thousand but I think the thing is if you go overseas or you go try and find a supply like you're you are getting the hundreds the moq is high two thousand exactly 50 guests exactly and that's the thing people people really especially actually for small weddings they still really want to have those important touches for them um and then earlier this year we launched our directory which is essentially a part of the website where suppliers sit so that brides can find their photographer their venue that is so smart um and and i really wanted to launch that because we just naturally get that question from our brides they're shopping with us they're on the site the whole time and then they're basically dming us saying i'm getting married in oxfordshire who do you recommend as a good photographer in that area um shows you the level of trust that you have as a brand and as a business that people are actually like okay I wonder if they can help me with this exactly and I think that there are other places where you can find lots of information but I think I really really wanted this to be like curated because I think that's the thing like if you go onto a site and you've got a thousand photographers how how do you choose whereas what we want to say is here's 10 or here's five in this area and we've worked with them and we recommend them and how long does it take to build out something like that when you say directory it's from photographers to what what venues um to wedding planners florists videographers content creators big thing and what big thing now big thing huge shift that was not a thing when i got i mean i don't think a content creator was actually no do you know what it was i got married in 2022 four years ago and it wasn't a thing now It's happened in the last two to three years.

23:52It's because we want it all instantly. You have to wait for your wedding video for like six months or something. You get it back. Some people have divorced by the time the wedding video comes in. And then the photography album, it takes forever. You actually just want to look back and post something that feels a little bit polished, but not quite as a little taste of the night. I think I get it. I get it. I think it's like there's also this whole thing in the wedding industry at the moment about, you know videographers photographers and content creators all working together I think it can be quite overwhelming um in the moment and so they are you know it's a nuanced situation where people are all trying to get the shot what the dynamic dynamic that happens on photo shoots and stuff with me actually does it well yeah because it's a bit of a and I think you know I'm lucky that the team that I have they all work in harmony together but it's always somebody needs to someone's got They've got their shot that they need to get.

24:45Everyone's got their list of deliverables and things they need to hit. Yeah. And everyone's fighting for the moment at once. Like it does happen. There's a bit of that going on. And I think that, you know, the weddings where you see it all really come together is obviously when suppliers have worked well together. But I think there is a bit of discourse online about everyone's roles in that space. Yeah, I can imagine. And I suppose with me for a shoot, I can just do the same shot again for every person. But you can't get married again. No. And also the brides paid you to be there. So like they want that BTS content, you know, that the content creator is not just there for them.

25:19Like that. Yes, for sure. And I do think there's a little bit of that feeling when it comes to content creators across the board. It's like, yeah, because it's a new position. I know. I think there's a lot of like, oh, I know. But then they want that content. They're like, share that. Yeah. I'm sure. And that BTS of me filming it. It's so funny. A light bulb moment launches your business, but consistent habits power it every day after. Today's episode is powered by Starling. Whether you're side hustling or scaling, Starling believes that with the right mindset and tools, anybody can be good with money.

25:52It's not about complex number wrangling or losing days to admin. It's creating a smart system of financial habits that can give you active control and build your confidence so that you can focus on being a founder, not the finance team. Search Starling Business to find out more about their monthly fee-free business account um so yes so we launched that in may and um we've seen amazing success with it and people are using it to find their partners find their suppliers and it's just it's it's been great and so that's my thing is that i want i want the engaged woman to come to us as soon as she gets engaged and find her photographer and also be able to buy a wedding planner and also find her bridesmaid gifts yes that's so nice the whole thing how does it work for you almost like because I'm sure that you get found a lot too because always you know word of mouth as always will always be the best recommendation right particularly with socials how do you go about targeting those new sort of those new engaged brides to be yes so I mean we do spend quite a bit on meta on Facebook ads which honestly I just I find it really annoying and I think maybe because I've had a bad experience at a point with Meta um they they are it's difficult sometimes to talk to someone there and they also have this thing where you can basically not have a credit limit on your account even though I did have a credit limit on my account right but there was a scenario in 2023 and it's just really stuck with me right tell me um but basically I had a freelancer managing my account and my card was linked to it and I just thought that the weekly budget was being taken my fault for not reading into that fully but I basically got an email like a month later and it was like your account's been disabled due to like no payment it's like what's going on what your whole my whole no not the Instagram account for any of the the ads ads right okay so it was like you can't place another ad at the moment so I basically log on and it was like you owe 30 grand I was like oh my gosh I was I've been hacked I was like this isn't me this can't be me anyway and then I go through all the ads all the traffic and it was all of our ads but they've been running for a couple of months and meta had just allowed the credit limit to continue right okay it was just before black friday and I obviously could not pay 30 grand and so I had to basically pay it off in installments I couldn't advertise over Black Friday it was a really really stressful time and I'd also had like a very stressful year in general and we'd had a lot of virality that summer as well and so we were still in this this like made-to-order place where we couldn't quite get scalability and the whole thing that is tough so that's that was my meta experience but I mean we still spend a lot on meta but I just kind of feel like they've monopolized right yeah but the way that I prefer to find new customers is through word of mouth and essentially like our customers tagging us um whether that's uh influences people we're following or just our normal community because I think what we're lucky about with our product is that it's really this special moment that everyone wants to share um and so the bride is always tagging us or if she's not tagging us she's still wearing our stuff and we can see it yes um but yeah I mean it's so interesting I suppose for you that's exactly you know some most business I mean it feels really old school which I love is that word of mouth and you can't really beat that but for you with what you're doing you know a future bride could be at the wedding could be part of the bridal party and then thinks I'm gonna order those because that made us feel lovely if my what you know and I suppose that's just how we definitely get a lot of that and and it's really interesting when I talk to other wedding suppliers um like photographers or makeup artists who you know I've known for a really long time now they'll message me and they'll be like I'm doing this amazing wedding this weekend I can see all your stuff here I'm like that's so nice um so I definitely think word of mouth is important but social media is a massive thing it's huge and you can't get away from it you can't and and it's it's helped my business in so many ways and you know I think I'm really lucky with the product being so relevant for that moment so you know influencers message us all the time like we are rarely doing outreach um they are coming to us which is amazing because i know people always ask me i mean other founders ask me like how do you get how do you get someone to buy your things it's so different to me trying to get a pair of jeans on them oh completely different like you say they're kind of they're nobody else really knows how to deliver what you're doing right so it's kind of how do i i'm throwing a hen for my best friend you know and I'm sure an influencer say hi I wonder if you can help me I'll tag you I'll do you know yeah and then bingo it's kind of a match made in heaven isn't it I want to talk about the kind of pivots that you've had throughout your journey because like I said starting your business plan started in one way now is you know it's completely different the way that you initially intended I think sometimes pivots can be a bit of a turbulent time for a founder not not always but that kind of okay this was plan a I'm now on plan b and now c how how have you find I mean I feel like I've mastered the art of pivot I don't know if I feel great at the time I know but it becomes something that I'm like okay it's fine let's walk this walk now because this is the new direction how how have you found it I completely agree with you I think it's like it's like a muscle that you're like training and like once you're able to kind of do something a few times you know I think okay I can do this again but it is so stressful and big pivots in business are so expensive and you know they're more expensive and more stressful the bigger that you get and you know when you've got team members involved and you're trying to bring people in but you're also trying to you know protect what the you know protect them in some way because look you don't want to come in and be like it's a disaster everything's awful it's like that doesn't make anyone feel good um and so there's also that balance of trying to bring people in so they can help you um but also I think the best thing that you can do as a founder is having a clear vision and then telling everyone this is the way that we're going because that uncertainty isn't nice for anyone you especially and I have found that whenever I've made my decision I've then you feel instantly better you're sort of like okay let's go and now we're on the move and now we're going Yeah, you're so right.

32:20And I think it's not it's a really sort of fine line, isn't it? When you're leading a team to be upfront and transparent, but also you don't want to unnecessarily worry anybody. And it's a really hard thing. And that's where I think as a founder, it becomes extremely lonely, as you're saying. It's quite you're super insular and you're like, you know, there's only a few people that you can actually talk openly. 100 % and you know and you know I try not to bury my head in the sand but I remember at the beginning that was something I did a lot because I'm like if I can just if I can just get to this point then it'll be fine and actually sometimes you need um help and you need someone uh that knows you well to be like okay come on like this is this is where you yeah you're right you're right sometimes you do have to it's that becomes that thing I'm just not gonna open that email right now and hopefully this problem will go away it just doesn't work it doesn't it does not work you have to get on with it and that is that's the shit part about it is 100 um I want to talk about because when we look at sort of that bridal businesses and that bridal market obviously there are thousands of bridal businesses but I think what Gigi and Olive has done is is well you have aka Gigi and Olive built something that is incredibly distinctive how do how has your sort of experience been sort of building a luxury brand in a market that I suppose is essentially overcrowded because we know weddings are such a huge moment of, well, it's a huge moment of your life, right?

33:48And we know that's the time that, talk about the wedding budget always goes out the window because that's the time that you're, if you're going to splurge, that's when you're ready to. I remember not understanding when I ordered a cake and it was similar to the one that I wanted for my birthday and them going oh this is a wedding okay and then just how that price shift happened I know this is the sort of time where everyone can make the money right it's really interesting I think like there is this like discourse on TikTok at the moment about like wedding tax and and people feel brides feel like well if I'm going to this venue for my birthday it's very different to a wedding I think that the vendors would probably say well it is very different and the amount of you know work and time and things that like wedding planners venues um suppliers put into a wedding is very different to a birthday and what the bride expects on her one day on this like momentous occasion is really different like if the cake goes wrong at your 40th I mean but if the cake goes wrong at your wedding you you'd feel different there's a bit of bridezilla tax to pay too isn't there but I feel like you know because I started as a made to order business and like all of our veils are still handmade in London like I wanted to position the brand in more of a premium way because we're not disposable it's not throwaway um and it's difficult because I do think that the amazonification of everything that we buy at the moment you know makes people feel like well I think this should cost that and it's it's you just don't know the someone who says that just doesn't understand like how much it costs and like running a business as you know is so expensive and it's almost like well I'd love to be able to produce it for this price I'd love to I'd love to I know that I'd sell more of something if it was half the price but it fundamentally like doesn't make sense and I've tried to do it you know I've tried on some products to be like okay I'm gonna ensure that and we you know we are very price conscious on certain things but like there are just some things that cost that much to make and I think where we sit in this um this interesting point is that you know we are a luxury brand but it's not like we're selling a thousand pound items you know like our veils are sort of 50 to 70 pounds it's expensive if you're wearing it one time on your hen do but if you're wearing it at your civil ceremony and you've spent sort of 60 pounds on a veil like it's great yeah so it's really hard because we are that luxury hen point price essentially but it's not um I think it's just really interesting that the consumer has a totally different mindset of what they basically want to spend on each of these moments and it's I think you know we don't do bridesmaid dresses but I think people have a similar feeling to to that when they're buying their bridesmaid dresses it's like they really want um things to look a certain way but they don't want to pay more than a certain amount per dress.

36:46Because it's gone on the big dress. Because it's gone on the big dress and you're having to buy something seven times or you're asking your friends to buy it. Yeah. I think that's, when I picture the veil, I think I can picture the times where it's gone in the group chat and we're like, we'll all club in for the veil. I know. I know. And I think it's different for women. Like, you know, unfortunately with stag dudes, you hear about, you never hear about men talking about this. They're just like, let's go, let's go. Could you imagine? I can't imagine. Let's club together. talking about let's like we've got all those t-shirts or we've done the embroidery on his fans no no and we stagged you to vegas and i think that's the thing like women are more conscious and men are missing out is what i exactly they're lost they're lost exactly i'd imagine i mean as such with any business or any successful business now that we're seeing fly community was such a big part for building the business how how has the community piece looked for you I think it's been something that has come really naturally to me and to the business as I said like I am customer obsessed I love talking to women about their weddings um you know it's just it's such an easy opener when's your wedding and I think that because I launched just before COVID and then everyone's weddings got cancelled I was then naturally talking to a lot of brides whose weddings weren't able to happen and there was this like natural relationship that I built quite early on um and then as we've kind of grown that's been really important for me to keep and we have made it a real point of focus over the last sort of 12 18 months to have community events and things that we do in real life and last year I mean to be fair last year I think we almost did too many it's actually like a whole other business in itself like running events oh my gosh it's massive and actually like whether you're doing it for 20 people or 100 if you are working to a certain like spec it's still just as like time consuming so I think it's also about learning what's actually right there but um you know we did a month-long pop-up last summer in July um in Chelsea and it was amazing it was so so special but I literally had a baby like a few weeks before the whole thing was like it was a lot but like meeting our customers in real life talking to people there them buying things them able to touch things yes that's a big thing it was really different and I think like you're then able to kind of understand more what people want and so and last year we did three bridal cinema community events where we basically took over a cinema in Notting Hill and had showed a bridal film so we did like Bridesmaids, Bride Wars and people were then able to come down with their mom or their sister and like really have a special moment because I think the other thing is when you get engaged you basically have like your hen your bridesmaid moment your dress shopping but there's people want more yeah they want like more special moments it's such a bubble and you're not ready for it to be done it's like people say to you make sure you take the whole day in because it's going to be the best day of your life and then it's like wedding blues afterwards there needs to be some sort of like you've got to go work I didn't go into I think our wedding was in well I think I know on the 27th of July before I get in travel and then we didn't go on honeymoon until the December so I remember thinking like oh my gosh what happens now no I know we literally went like the day after what do I talk about now because that's all you want to do I don't even have a personality anymore it just takes over doesn't it yeah it takes over and I remember even my friends being like oh my gosh like this what do we do now I'm like I know sorry you're like someone else has got to get married one of you number one down um what do you think you're most proud of when it comes to I just feel really proud of the brand I feel I absolutely love hearing when some when someone says oh I know that brand I love that brand like that means a huge amount to me um I think that I'm really proud that I've built something that people trust that um you know people understand what I've been trying to do in in a place that really didn't exist before um and I think as we're entering this kind of age of AI like it's so important to keep these like community events and in real life activations and I think brides customers people want in real life experiences so I think that is like very important thing to make sure that we keep doing as we grow and what do you think is next for you well we're actually launching our own podcast which is very exciting all things wedding bridal um is there a bridal podcast I think there are a couple but there's also quite a lot of supplier podcasts so it's like photographers listening to wedding planners I really want to talk to the bride I want to talk to our customer and we're going to have wedding experts celebrity brides on people to come and basically talk about their own wedding journeys um so yeah oh my goodness that is such a good idea and I know like obviously everyone has a podcast that's the whole point right I don't feel like there's anybody that's doing it from your perspective do you know what I think you know as we've gone through like there's a lot of different things that I've tried my hand at and I think I had thought about a podcast for for a year or so but I was like I feel like a lot of people have podcasts but but as an avid that's what put me off doing it did it yeah so I'm like oh great the world does not need another podcast but I'm like actually listen I listen to your podcast every week I love it I love me listening to yours you know I love a wedding even though I'm not getting married but I think people do love it and you know if you're someone who listens to podcasts well like and I listen to a lot of podcasts it's like you you want that type of content in your ears and I think if you have a brand and you're trying to reach new customers as you say like how do you find new customers that's going to be your most and it would be so great for you to sort of then redirect people when they have a question you can say listen to this episode we cover it all off and you know that's great for you to just have that in the bank absolutely and we did a community event at the beginning of this year that was like a bridal panel where I was basically interviewing wedding experts and people were literally like wait can I have this like saved as like a pdf you know so I I think that type of content that is like this educational piece about getting married, when you're in the thick of wedding planning, it's exactly what you want.

43:19You should do a live podcast to kick it off. So get the brides there and do a pop up and do a live recording. I would love to. We'll get you on for your vow renewal. Yeah, yeah. Well, you've still got a few years for my next 10. I don't know if he hasn't mentioned it, so I don't know if it's on. I want to do our rocket round now. Okay. um and i ask as you know if you listen yes i do guess the same questions um and the first one is what do you believe are the non-negotiables for running a business resilience i just think that is the biggest thing i was thinking about this question a lot and i was like adding answers to it sorry i know it's a rocket round no no no no no you're good you're good don't worry it's never quick it's never quick but i think that is the the the only thing that you need if you have that and you can get back up every single day you can be resourceful and find what you need to keep going but it's resilience yeah you're so right in bucket loads buckets way more than you think yes um when did you first realize that you truly launched so on sophie habu's hen which she was wearing a lot of our items and it was definitely like a huge moment for us as a brand um and their wedding was so i feel like we were all waiting it was one of those weddings it was very of the moment they have their podcast they have their podcast and um literally up until now that was three years ago and people constantly come up to me and say like I found you because of Sophie Abu like that was huge for us as a business um but um I was on her hen as her friend and we were there having lunch on the second day and it wasn't her moment but it was actually there was a table next to us of English girls in Paris and they were all wearing Gigi and olive caps the bride was in a bail and i was like oh my god i'm in another city with someone here that they want to take photos off with and they're all wearing my products i was like okay okay i need to ask what you did did you just look on and be like girls they're wearing me i or did you go over i basically said oh my god they're all wearing gg and olive and then all the girls i was like let's get them to come over and i was like no no i was like i'm professional also i feel like this was like at a very boozy branch I was like I'm now not a great representation Yeah I know I was like Come back to me later It was really surreal I think like Anytime you see your product Like out in the wild You can't really play it cool No Can you?

45:36It's amazing Oh my gosh It feels good Yeah My husband's the funniest He'll be like We'll be in boots Or we'll be going to grab something And the baby aisle And we'll see My little coker there He's like Tell them Tell them It's yours I'm like Not right now And he's like Shall I tell them I'm like You don't They're literally just shopping they didn't expect to meet the founder today that's that's a green flag it is but it's also really awkward because then he goes tell them that I'm here like hi he just wants me to tell you that it's my business um what is the first thing you do when you wake up and the last thing you do before you go to bed okay so the last thing it's so bad but I checked my phone and I was honestly trying to think of a really nice answer but I check it it's hard like you're looking at like the baby camera you're looking at um your email's the last thing I feel like when you have such a busy brain I often feel like I just need to do this last thing so I can turn off checklist of things that you know I can switch off now because have I set my alarm hang on let me go back let me just I've checked four times I've set my alarm I know but you have normal but I heard didn't you say that you you've now left it and then yeah I need to I need to do it honestly and I'm trying to this is all because of Izzy Utterson oh yes yes she was like you have to and I gave it a good go and I do I'm sleeping so much better okay so I need you know what you can do the still do all the checklist bit yeah you just do it or you can nip back out but you can do it at 10 or whatever it doesn't have to be at 7 p.m.

47:02the morning I'm good I know I don't do it anymore I like I get up I don't look at my phone I have I get in the shower straight away and then I get my daughter up but like it's the night the best thing is you're having an analog alarm clock yeah i know because then you don't have it yeah exactly it's not the thing you then look at straight away but yeah that to me has been a game changer but it's it's a hard one to part with at first then all of a sudden you'll be like wow my sleep i feel free come here yeah it's a good it's a good thing when you get there um what's one piece of advice that you wish you hadn't listened to i would say that it's growing your top line at all costs and you know profit will come later that is terrible advice and in this day and age like you have to focus on your profit because it gives you the control to be able to make all the decisions you want to do basically if if your top line's just growing but your profit isn't it's really hard yeah well it's not you can make those decisions it's not so much of a risk if yeah exactly exactly if you're profitable exactly it's a scary thing because I know there's that that that advice comes in sort of a bit of a mixed back doesn't it but when you're self-funded when you're a small business and when you're scaling slowly I feel like like you say I feel like that is very strong advice what's a skill that you'd love to learn well I think I would love to learn another language but I just don't think it's gonna happen you're gonna have the time I don't I know what language would be or I feel like I'd love to learn French or Italian something sexy and European that you could put to good use Yeah, I don't know how.

48:39I wouldn't be using it in my business, and I don't know when I'd be using it. But I think... Just book some trips. I think I will. But I'd love to be able to do that. Again, I think it's quite AI-proof, so I'd love to do that. Yeah, that would be good. That's also a really good bit of escapism. That's the thing, because at the moment, I feel like I genuinely don't have any escapism. That's a good thing to draw yourself away from family, from business, and you can't really think about anything else when you're trying to learn something new, like a language. I'm saying this I've not started so yeah but you but you might I might now I've said it you go but you put it out there and see what's one thing that you wish someone had told you before you started I know I was thinking about this I really feel like any of the advice that I got I still you know would have plowed on I always remember my my husband and my sister are both buying managers ones at Net-A-Porter ones at My Teresa and I remember when I first told them both kind of in competition I know I love that I know and I'm always like I know nothing you know like one of them's like asking me something I'm like I don't know yeah no don't ask me um but they both said to me like don't get into stock and I was like I think I will I think I'll try my hand at that and like now I'm like okay yeah I get why you'd say that so it's really hard I think you know it takes longer than you think is is is something that you know when when you first start and you have all this fire in your belly and you obviously I still have that seven years in but you kind of think well next year I'll be doing seven figures and it's just like that's not realistic and I know there are lots of amazing like sound bites and things on TikTok of people who've been able to do that but it is so so so rare so rare and you don't want to let that put a dampener on no your success because it might be slow and it might be steady but that still is what success looks like too 100 % and I think we like you say we see all these clips of like I've reached this and how I started off it's really hard I borrowed£3 ,000 from my mum and now I'm turning over a billion dollars I know and you're like what have I done wrong I know and it's really hard it is hard and it's amazing I think it depends what sort of person you're on how you digest that do you see that as inspiring or does that sort of put a bit of a dent in your journey which it shouldn't it shouldn't it's really hard it like it can you know obviously with social media you are constantly comparing yourself and I think that when you see other people's stories I feel especially women like I feel so buzzed for that woman I'm like oh my god I love it I'm obsessed but of course there's also a tiny bit of you that's like okay well if someone does that maybe I should be doing this and actually it's just a distraction and it's just noise and I think it's not like it's not your story right now exactly you're you're you're you know you're plowing on in what you're doing and 100 that's happened to them and amazing let's let it inspire us but not exactly i think more if you can see someone doing something you're like great it's achievable it's possible you know it's possible but sometimes comparison well i say a lot is the faith of joy it's kind of the thing that stops you it is and my husband always says that to me he's like there are a lot of people looking at you being like how how's she doing that and she's why you're sat in the seat we want to know and i feel very happy to be here we want to know everything um what would be the dream collab yes so recently we did an event at joe malo london at their townhouse and we did the sort of like wedding fragrance it was amazing but i'd love to do something a bit more like product based with them i'd love to do something more ideal fragrance i'm putting it out there you're putting it out i'd love that that would be insane yeah it's such a top question i remember when i got married and I'll do interviews and people will go so what scent are you going to wear on your wedding yeah like it's a really big thing big deal and I think they do it so well and it was a really an amazing event that we did that at their townhouse so I just thought this could be oh yes that's I love that idea that would be incredible um and then lastly if you could choose one female figure past or present as a mentor who would that be I would say Natalie Massinet who founded Neto Forte I feel like I've mentioned them quite a lot if they'd like to sponsor us very good um but she you know if you look back to that moment where she created what Net-A-Porter is it was going to all these luxury fashion houses a lot of men that didn't want to be on digital that didn't want to sell um online and she made that all happen and she completely transformed e-com and luxury e-com so you know I think she'd be an amazing person and I think that she's what what she's built as So Net-A-Porter is always such a point of reference for so many people.

53:19A hundred percent. Like if you're looking at like building a site and I remember I've used it so many times. I'm like, I just want it clean. I want it easy. Think Net-A-Porter. Clean but luxury. Yeah. It's like, it's, you know what it is. You know what it is. And the brat, considering it's such sort of simple branding, it's so, so strong and so iconic. What she's, and obviously that's just the branding alone. What she's built is phenomenal. And I'd imagine with what you're doing, like a big DTC business, that actually that'd be a good person to have on the phone to sort of pick their brains. I'd love that.

53:51You know when this happened? Yes. Yeah. A bit of that. You need her on speed dial. I'd love that. I want to do some financial questions now. Yes. Now it's time for 321, some financial questions powered by our friends at Starling Bank, the bank on a mission to give founders confidence and control over their finances. because I really feel like I'm trying to sort of weave financial conversations into these podcast recordings because it's something that we seem to sort of shy away from and it's so bad. It's a female British thing. This is what I say. The Americans are so good at it. They're so good.

54:26They're so ballsy with it and so kind of proud of those moments where we're like, I know. Don't worry. I think it's like we're worried that we're coming across like showy or fee or something or obnoxious i don't know yeah i know it is it is it's like be be great but not too great because it'll put people off you 100 so i want to talk about three profit priorities so that's three things that you always reinvest your profits into how does that look for you and what would your advice be i would definitely say people um brand you know that's been really important to us whether that's in real life activations or packaging or anything that you know strengthens our brand identity um and then software and tech we are using a lot of ai now and i think it's absolutely worth the investment as a founder it's so it's just it really is shaping the future isn't it yeah and we we see a lot of people worry about it about ai but i just we we've had lots of experts on here and talking about ai and the future of it and i think one common thread is between all of them is that they say that you won't lose your job to ai you lose your job to someone that knows exactly what they're doing when it comes to you.

55:36Absolutely. I want to empower my team to use it so that they can then, you know, do more of their admin-based tasks as automations and then they're able to focus on the things that's actually going to move the needle. I think it can be divisive when people, people don't like seeing it creatively, you know, in ads, if someone, if a brand is using an AI person instead of a real person. I think people have this really like, icky feeling about that it just doesn't sit right human to human and I think that's good and we should retain that because it shows that that human contact is always going to be needed so so important yeah but I don't think there's much um I don't think people feel that you know on the fence about whether you're using it to build yourself a spreadsheet I think it's the unknown isn't it yeah yeah it's okay it's okay if you want to use it for your emails it's all good the only thing is when you get the response and you're like I know you've been oh I know lose those dashes honey i know that's taking you two seconds i used to use the m dash quite a lot and now i can't i'm like do you know what katie that works for me is like it's so annoying because i actually used to use that no i can't no i can't no definitely not um two boundaries so how you separate personal and business money and work time from lifetime i don't think i separate personal and work time at work time and personal time at all um I've tried but I just think that I'm in this like moment of growth to be honest I've always felt like that since I've had this business and I just don't think if you are a founder really in the weeds really growing your business you're able to switch off I think that is just the reality of it um and I think even more also since becoming a mother, it's like you have to try, obviously, when you're at home to be present.

57:30That's the main thing. And my my mum still works. She's super impressive. And I was raised by a working mother. And I was having this conversation with her the other day. I was never made to feel like she didn't want to be with me. She was working, but then she was at home. But at the same time, there was a completely different thing in the 90s because they didn't have email they didn't have social media and so when she was coming home she was at home and I think that's such a good point that's really important for me like when I'm at home I put my phone away yeah but I can't say that I'm not thinking about then that is a big boundary it is that is a bit that you know that's a strong boundary that you've set but then she goes to sleep and then I pull it back out you know but then you've you've been present in those hours exactly and that's kind of having that switch off I'll be back on my phone at eight o 'clock guys but I'm off at the minute.

58:19Yeah, it's important. It is important, but it is so hard. It's such a hard balance to strike because you're even really excelling at one thing and not the other. And it's always that push and pull. But I do think I'm the same as you, where I'm like, if I didn't have a family, maybe I'd have more of a social life or I'd have more of a, but having a business is so all consuming. There's only really time for something else. I know. And you've got three of them. And that's my family. so that's my husband and my children but it's if I didn't have that maybe I'd be like oh my gosh what I do is I go on a juice retreat every this or I do this or maybe I would have I don't know more of a life for me that I pour back into but it is very it's a very difficult balance to strike it is for any founder it is and I I think like even before I had a child I thought I was at capacity you know I was working every weekend I was working really late I would come back really late um but you just sort of expand when you become a mother and i think you get better at delegating you get better at your boundaries you fit more into 24 hours exactly i don't know how you have a lot less sleep and that's okay a lot more caffeine always needed um i want to talk one power move so what would your advice be for negotiating a higher investment price i would say that this goes back to brand and community and you know although I said earlier you know it's not just about the top line of course that is very very relevant in business but a big asset of any business is the brand is the community and it's what you build around that and investors will pay to acquire something that has um has a really strong brand identity and strong community and I think people are more and more interested these days in niche communities you know in what you're building here with like talking to female founders it's like there are people who want to reach that audience and in the same way that I'm doing that with bridal there are people that want to reach that audience and so I think being niche is a good thing and I was always worried about that at the beginning and people used to say to me oh well why don't you also do this and why don't you also do that and yes we have great gifts for you for your sister if you want to come for her birthday and things like that but at the same time focus it's not the focus and every time I've strayed from that focus it's cost me more and actually just being really clear to your vision and and focusing on that is really important I still agree when we launched this podcast there was so much advice sort of being thrown at me and that was I remember I met with a production company and then I was like I'm just doing it myself I want to do it myself I want to pay for it myself I don't want anyone's input because me and my my little team we know what we know what we're doing and I don't it was one of the big things were like I think you're sort of limiting yourself with just with being ladies who launch why don't we talk why don't we call it Rochelle I don't know business or whatever it was and I'm like no that's not the point I don't want to have men on that is literally the point and if at one point I do it will be because they're going to be a great ally and they're going to give women incredible advice love that it's not it's not because I want to hear that there's enough podcasts that platform there are there are and it's really it is really really hard for women and I think you know we there's a there's a lot that we're doing and you know I think it's it's amazing that you're building a platform that you know amplifies those voices I think it's really amazing that I have people like you come on and tell me your stories otherwise there'd be no podcast and each episode I ask our guests to leave a tip almost one piece of tangible advice that if someone's listening to this is thinking do you know what I love Gigi and Olive and I've always looked on and thought wow I'd love to build something like that one day what would your what would your advice be I think that it would be to decide on the type of business that you want to build that's the first thing because I think if you want a lifestyle business versus if you want a drinks business that's stocked in every Walmart in America like your strategy is going to be very very different like one brand wants distribution one brand doesn't want a team like some people find it really stressful to have employees yeah and I think working out exactly what it is you know obviously that'll change as as you can hear from my story it changes but I always knew that I wanted to build a global brand and so everything I've done has tried to be a step towards that and I think that is really can be a really helpful um first step in deciding the direction you want to go because having tried my hand at wholesale originally like you have to have very different margins for stuff like that so if you know that you want to be stocked on loads of different websites like you have to know that when you're developing the product otherwise you have to have a huge price increase later and that just pisses off all your customers yeah yeah that's not going to work um so I think trying to establish the direction you want to go in um and honestly in this day and age like AI is your friend and don't be scared of it don't be scared of it utilize it like seven years ago if I'd have had access to Claude and like being able to build a chief of staff a PA yeah a website a website it's incredible what's at your fingertip today like I remember when I first started spending hours and hours teaching myself photoshop I hated it I was so bad at it and I was just like editing out like the background of things putting on embroidery on different items you can literally click it's done now you know ask for it to be done ask for it to be done and like don't lose your your brand identity and who you are and um the people connection as we've said but like you you can be utilizing it's just using it in the right way exactly like you say not sort of relying on it for everything of course not but let it help you let it be your virtual assistant or however you want to look at it everyone always says like hire the right people hire the right people i remember always hearing that on podcasts and i was like hire the right people if you're saying that to someone who's starting out like they can't afford anybody i know to pay themselves let alone hiring the right person so build the right way from the beginning use the right tools and try and build in the direction you know you want to go because that will essentially cost you less in the long run that's such good advice um and then lastly uh we talk about ladies who launch but when it comes to being a lady who lunches it's not good it's not good my answer i'm sorry okay i'm already ready i'm already ready what if i was going to be your assistant for the day and i was going to get your dream lunch to make your day easier and i know that you'll eat it and i you're going to be happy what am I putting in front of you well when you say it like that that sounds so nice someone going to get me I feel like what usually happens is I just have it at my desk and it's probably like a juice I'm quite like mid-morning mid I'm quite like lunch fast when I'm at work okay okay um so not a total fast but like a juice and lots of coffee sometimes you get the post-lunch slump a bit isn't it it's hard yeah yes I think um you know it's not a good answer honestly my team always like do you want something to eat it's just sometimes it keeps your kind of momentum up a little bit and then you're like right it's dinner when I get home like I do understand that I love dinner when I get home a little bit of a snacker and you're like I'm more of a snacker get me through I'm more of a snacker I don't really leave my desk which is bad because I actually think the days when I take myself for a walk I come back clearer um but it's just one of those things when you're in the moment.

1:05:42Sometimes you don't feel like you've mentally got time for that. What's your snack of choice? Salt and vinegar crisps. Oh yes. The ones from Pratt. Oh I've never had the ones from Pratt. The cider salt and vinegar. Oh no I have. They're a bit sweeter aren't they? They're really good. Yes I have. They're in the green package. Yes. Yes I know now. Oh yes there we go. Thank you so much. Thank you. I've loved this. I've loved sitting down with you. Was it as bad as you thought? I know you're a bit nervous before. No honestly I think I've been having like an out of body experience the whole time but like i'm gonna look back and be like you survived but thank you you've made me feel really at ease thank you i can't wait for your podcast thank you i'll be listening thank you so much don't forget to follow us on apple and spotify or wherever you get your podcast to make sure that you don't miss out because next time i'm going to be talking to another incredible lady who launched if like me you're a watcher then please follow us on youtube and don't forget to like and subscribe