The Jane Birkin Moment That Changed Everything | Behind Building Sellier

0:00Rochelle: Today's guest Hanushka Toni has built the UK's fastest growing resale platform for luxury super brands, Sellier. Turning pre-love designer handbags into viral drop moments that people race online to buy. Now she's entered an entirely different category with Juice, an intimate self-care brand that's already sparked major conversation online. So, let's find out why she's a lady who launched.

0:35Rochelle: I'm so pleased you're here. Thank you for having me. We're so excited to have you on. I want to sort of, I always try and go back a little bit. So I want to start with kind of your life and how that looked before Celia existed. How far back do you want to go? Well, where were you when you had that kind of light bulb moment? What were you doing? I feel like we're always in a place where we're like, I'm done with this. I don't want to be here anymore. this is my next thing. So what was that before you created your dream job? So before Celia, I was actually a lawyer working in the city doing private client tax work.

1:09I wish I used to be a lawyer.

1:11Rochelle: That would have saved me so much money. You honestly don't. And what's really interesting is it was a career I'd always aspired to have because when you're growing up, when you're going to university, you really try and do these safe jobs that pay well that have prestige attached and I was doing that and I wasn't really enjoying it and I realized do I want to be doing something that I'm just okay at in fact pretty mediocre at at a great firm or do I want to go out there and create something and try and do something that I'm genuinely passionate about and what do you think like having sort of always aspired to be in that space and sort of always feeling like that's what you would do what when it was kind of like in fruition and happening and you were at a firm what was it about it that you wasn't that didn't feel like you I think what's interesting is maybe when I was growing up in the 2000s having a corporate job was considered to be super cool so everyone I went to university with either wanted to be in the city an investment banker or work in private equity or be a lawyer and then when you get into it you realize that actually you're always working for someone else and it's not really eat what you kill so you work incredibly hard but at the end of the day you never really benefit from that all that much and if you're a hard worker and quite entrepreneurial it can become a bit demotivating I suppose like like you say like entrepreneurs half the buzz is how rewarding and it can be when it goes right.

2:47Rochelle: Obviously, we know we're always firefighting and there's lots of stuff that can go wrong. But when it goes right, it's that sense of sort of accomplishment, I suppose. And I think that's something that if you're naturally an entrepreneur, you'll always strive for that. I kind of love it when an entrepreneur's story doesn't sort of start out in the way that people would think. And I think that's always a real kicker, isn't it, to push you into what you want to do. For anyone that's discovering you for the first time today, how would you describe what you do right now so sellier is an ultra curated resale platform for pre-loved luxury we are online but we also have close to 14 physical stores around the uk and in monaco opening in the middle east and we're really known for selling the best bags in the world absolutely i love that i love that what you've done and what you've managed to sort of nail is that kind of, we're so in the era of pre-loved and rental, you look at big businesses like her and so on and so forth, but you've managed to kind of mix two ideas together, you know, that real premium luxury element, but doing it in more of a affordable way as it were.

4:06Rochelle: What was it about where you were in your life that thought, okay, that what was the kind of penny that dropped that you that was kind of your motive to push you forward to do this? I guess at the time it actually came from my mum. I wish I could take the credit but she had always had this dream of having a small store in Knightsbridge. As long as I could remember she dreamt of selling designer pieces but not necessarily current season but really cool vintage and the best of the best. So when she was in her 50s, she finally decided that I'm going to go for it. And she opened a small little store.

4:46And at the time I was still a lawyer. And the next thing you know, COVID hits. Her dream of building this beautiful business that she'd always dreamt of running is suddenly circling the pan. So I think two months into having the business I left my job in the law and I joined her.

5:06Rochelle: Wow okay so this has been a sort of almost duo situation. And now it's a trio because I work with my brother so it's very much a family business. In the family which I'm always I always ask questions about this when I you know hear stories of founders that are family, siblings, best friends. I'm always interested in the dynamic and like how it affects the family dynamic in like in a positive way or sometimes a negative way because a lot of the times you can't switch off because it kind of bleeds through life. So how is that set up for you? Obviously, this is, I suppose you've ultimately really added value to each other because of the way it's gradually built.

5:45Rochelle: But what's that dynamic like? I think for us, we always remember that we're family first. So there's nothing that can happen at work that will affect our relationship and our priority. as in you're my mother, you're my daughter, you're my brother. So nothing that for us is completely unshakable. And then work is what we do the rest of the time and we compartmentalize the two. That's so good. What happens is if we do have disagreements, obviously they might escalate a little bit more than if you are simply dealing with someone who you've got a purely professional relationship with. But no, it's great.

6:27Rochelle: And I suppose like there's sometimes more emotion involved too, like where it's, where it's that family and you've got that love and that, you know, it's, it can make it a bit more emotional, I'd assume. In some ways I try and keep emotions out of business. Very wise. In friendship, personal life, maybe it's a bit different, but in business I'm very cool headed. I love that. I love that. So let's talk about that time in 2020 because it was kind of a tricky period for the world and particularly business and retail unless you had a big online presence and because we were all at home and obviously we couldn't go anywhere so tell me how it sort of transpired so you leave the law firm you know this isn't for you anymore you've kind of I suppose that's been bubbling away for a little period of time how like what was that first phone call like between you and your mum and how did you kind of decide to make this work and figure it out together?

7:24Well, it first happened with the store closing completely and us losing our only stream of revenue, which was clients coming in off the street. So what I had at the time was I think a tiny Instagram account around 1000 followers. I went into the store, opened my Instagram and started just grabbing bags off the shelf and talking to people about the bags that we had in store. And crucially, it wasn't a hard sell. It wasn't buy the Chanel bag. It's so nice. It was more telling the story of the piece. And at the beginning, no one was really doing it. I remember we were the first business live selling.

8:08And I had friends calling me up saying, Hanishka, this is weird and embarrassing. Please stop. No way.

8:15Rochelle: What do I, hang on. Tell me that. What do you mean? almost like, what are you doing now? Why are you so active online? Do you think you're on QVC? You've got a thousand followers. I'm watching you and I'm cringing. Oh my gosh. But I've got a really thick skin. So stuff like that, I just thought, well, what else are we going to do? We have to sell some stock. And after about a week, the stories were just so, I was so relentless with how much I posted and how excited I was talking about the product that it started going viral and after maybe a few months every product I would post on socials would sell wow so that's how we started and when you say relentless how because I always think you know there is there needs to be such credit on content creators and how you know it people are I think people sort of take the job for granted a little bit on the outside they post some stuff on Instagram.

9:15Rochelle: You really have to be relentless and all in. How often were you posting? All day. I mean, by the end of every day, my fingers were numb because it was just constant posting, replying to messages. And it was also the dark age of content creation. Back in 2020, it wasn't as polished. It wasn't as glamorous. So I was really winging it, making it up as I went along, hoping people would resonate with something I was saying. And that's how it started. And I suppose for you, your idea at the time wasn't to be a content creator, it was to sell the product. Like we need to, it's locked down, we need to get these bags sold, as it were.

9:55Rochelle: And I think it's so interesting that you had such a big spike at that time, because actually when you think about it, it was the time that everyone was so worried. And you'd imagine that in that kind of luxury bag space that they would think, well, I can't really treat myself right now because of what's going on in the world so it's kind of it's credit to the storytelling I suppose that and also if you think about it we did have a captive audience everyone was sitting at home on their sofas wanting to be entertained so could I have done the same thing today as I did back then I don't know I think in every business story there is a real element of right place right time luck and also a lot of grit and hard work behind the scenes and what do you why why do you think the focus was solely on the like ultra created luxury pieces because it's and I love that it is and I love that because you've really found your niche there and you think that on paper it's not the safest bet like when we think of a business plan we think go to the masses like if we look at the UK for instance it's quite a small portion of people that could afford to kind of operate in that space so why would why were you so passionate about that niche I guess from a business perspective we did look at the competitor landscape at the time you already had players like ebay vestiaire collective so these big platforms where you had infinite choice of luxury you could go on there find two million pairs of jimmy choos so we knew we needed to compete in a different way and what and what we really wanted to be was the net apporter of resale right elevated every product is amazing every product is something that you would want to own yeah and I suppose that personal feeling too that you don't get with those like vestiares and etc that you telling the story is is I suppose is super important and I suppose you can you could probably track that right with the data I guess yes Selye in many ways evolved as a founder led a founder grown business businesses that are bigger in a sense they're more anonymous which is great because they're more scalable but then you don't have as much maybe investment from the customer and your attention is very different because they're not investing into a brand and a particular person it's just do they have the product or not so so we're we're in lockdown you obviously the doors aren't open because they can't be you're in there you're doing video content you're selling bags in that way and then what when do you realize that it's kind of more than that it's more than you engaging with a product on social and it's selling at what point do you go okay this is really this is more than what we ever thought it could be I think for me it was the first time that I sold a Birkin online I posted a single story it was a black Birkin bag for 13 and a half thousand pounds which today that bag would cost 26 but it was half the price back then and when was this 2020 wow it was brand new black birkin 25 and it was 13 and a half k we posted it and it sold i think within 40 seconds what yeah and i thought to myself wow we're now a business that people trust they trust that they'll go online they'll buy they'll get a perfect product delivered that it's authentic and for me that was that was incredible an incredible feeling and I suppose like you say like to to part with your hard-earned money and like that the moment that you kind of visualize buying an item like that you kind of I suppose would assume that you're going to see it in store you're going to touch you're going to look you're going to feel so to sort of invest in a piece like that because you're saying so I suppose that must be the moment that you know that you've got the customer's trust.

13:55Rochelle: Absolutely. I mean, it is incredible. It really, really is. For anyone that hasn't heard about the auction. Oh, the auction. Tell us about it because it did become a real talking point. Yeah. To say the least. So last year, Sotheby's in Paris auctioned off Jane Birkin's original Birkin bag. and I remember the team and I reading about this online and saying oh as a joke we should bid on it and a lot of our marketing is built around these viral moments and I said no no I'm serious we should we should bid on it we should go to Paris sit in the auction room and place a bid and see if we can get it so that's how it started we ended up in the auction room and the bag sold for more than any bag has ever sold for in the world.

14:51I think from memory it was eight and a half million euros. I think we got to two and then I bottled it. We're out. We are out. I don't want to be in trouble.

15:03Rochelle: It was insane. I mean, it's like, it's so funny. The world of bags kind of fascinate me. I was talking to someone the other day and they kind of, you know, they deal in watches and that's kind of like, had been their trade for many, many years. It's the sort of buying and reselling of watches and how you buy a certain timepiece. And it was always a guarantee because they hold their money. And what he was saying, the irony of the way the landscape has changed now, if he was going to invest in, you know, product in that way, it would be in a Birkin. Yeah. And I think it's, I don't think that's something that anyone could have predicted back then.

15:38I mean, the Birkin bag and the Kelly bag, they're the best performing asset class probably of the last 20 years. so no one would have thought even 10 years ago that the price spike would be what it's been it's it's really incredible I mean and that auction just goes to show I mean obviously that

15:57Rochelle: what your is like a artifact isn't it what what everybody has been on Jane's Jane Birkins Birking I mean but it's the kind of the attention and I suppose the global attention on that And did you kind of document the process to your followers? So we live streamed it on TikTok. We made lots of content around it. And we posted, I think, maybe 30 videos. And every single video was getting 15, 20 million views. Gosh. It was the most viral content we've ever made. Wow. And it's perfect content for you, isn't it? I mean, thank you for those moments. Have more of those auctions, please. How do you go about scaling a business like yours?

16:42Rochelle: That's what I'm really interested in because you've done exactly that. You start in that scenario. It's probably not looking good for business at the time that you pair up with your mum because of the way of the world, so on and so forth. But like you say, the way that you've scaled to other territories and, you know, more store openings. How has the scaling process been for you? So for us as a family business, it was never about scale for the sense of scale. I don't want to be a 200, 300 million pound business if that means I'm not profitable, which is actually the case with a lot of fashion brands.

17:19They go out, they raise a lot of money to grow, but at the end of the day, they're not profitable. Scaling for us was always about financial discipline. right can we scale and maintain profitability so the business is able to grow itself and also be a sustainable business long term so it was always about that from the outset and sort of

17:40Rochelle: how when did you realize the scale was necessary and how sort of stressful was that pivot so if we're talking in like retail space terms and you're deciding to sort of you know take the next jump and so on and so forth. What are those periods of time like for you as a business? I would say don't chase scale for the sake of growing. For us, it's almost the opposite. When we see we're growing, it means there's demand and there's more market share to capture. If we weren't growing as a business, I don't think I'd be opening in the Middle East. I don't think I'd be looking at Miami locations, which is what we're doing now.

18:21I think it's very important that you're actually growing and you know that there's demand and that's when you say okay what next am I going to a new territory am I expanding my offering am I launching a new product category and how but

18:36Rochelle: in those moments what what is the impact on the business as in like for you as a founder are you just like oh my gosh this is a full-on time the minute we've got an opening in the Middle East and I'm you know do you feel like you're sort of being pulled into a million directions I mean it it really does stretch you and challenge you. But you need to have an incredible team around you. As you'll know, it takes a village. And from the outside, you might look in and think any business, oh, the CEO is so great. They've pushed that business to such a scale. But in fact, it's a combination of so many other people and their work and their talent.

19:12So that's really important.

19:13Rochelle: And what does the team look like now? Because you start this with you and your mum. Yes. And then at what point does your brother come in? So my brother was also a lawyer. I think he came in about three years down the line and he completely professionalized the business. He's far more methodical and pedantic than I am. I'm more of a fly by the seat of my pants kind of person. He's very structured. He's there to pull you back. He's like no more than two million on the auction. Exactly. Yeah, that's him. So that's when he joined. And now we have a team of just under 20. We run it very, very lean because that's another way in which we keep profitable and make sure that everyone in the company is very dedicated.

19:56Rochelle: Yes. And what does your day-to-day role look like now and how has it changed from back then? so back then a lot of my work was physically in the store operations i'd do things like pack and order authenticate a product visually merchandise it these days i'm in every store in london every day so i will visit every store make sure everything's running smoothly but also a lot of time is spent on managing external stakeholder relationships so our commercial partners thinking about strategy. How do we grow this year? How are we going to get bigger? What numbers are we targeting? So a lot of it is about growing the business.

20:37Rochelle: And how much is a sort of integral part of social media played on your business? Obviously I can imagine over the time, but is it still, would that be one of the biggest priorities for you? Absolutely. We don't have any marketing spent still, even though we're seven years old, which is quite rare for a fashion business. And everything we do we do via viral social media campaigns and try and engage our audience organically that way and what would your tips be for that say if somebody's listening to this right now and they're starting out and they're like I have zero marketing spend because I'm a startup and we're in our infancy how how do you capture the audience in a way that what do you think is the kind of secret sauce to making a video go viral and using it in a way to monetize don't be boring don't be safe and you can sometimes do things to purely entertain we've done that before although sometimes it does lose you followers um but also do things that add value for your audience so for example on saturday i thought why don't we take our knightsbridge store and fill it with chanel bags and every chanel bag is going to be under two and a half thousand pounds And people can come in person, they can buy a Chanel, an authentic Chanel, for£500, for£900, but not more expensive than£2.5k.

22:01And given the fact that bags are now trading around£10k in store, it's a bargain. So we started filming content around this event. We've got about a thousand people coming on Saturday. Wow. I'm terrified.

22:14Rochelle: Oh my gosh, how are you going to police this? Exactly. It's brilliant. But already you can probably see because of the kind of like history of what really works and what gets that engagement for you online is that you can, are you already sort of strategizing what the content's going to look like and how that plays out for the weekend? Yeah. Can you give us, can you give us an insight? How does it look like? What, what does that take? Because it's all, I had this conversation with founders a lot of the time, like you can sort of sometimes preempt actually this is going to, we know our audience, this is going to fly.

22:46Rochelle: they're going to love it but how do you almost make hay where the sun shines and what do you do to keep them entertained because you know they're going to be engaged I think for the content we we actually don't over plan too much right we keep it very organic very in the moment very natural but it needs to be centered around something unusual so another campaign we did was leaving Birkin bags in charity shops around London clever and again we had hundreds of people turn up for a chance to buy a 10 ,000 pound Birkin for 3 ,000 pounds and it was great the money went to charity people got the feeling that they were contributing to something worthwhile and it was just a people love a find don't they they love like selfridges do that um for like the event they do for women and raise money for charity and I know that they like section off a bit of the car park and it becomes a car boot and people are getting a batteg about 20 quid and it's like people love that it's a thrill absolutely and knowing that you're getting something for way less of a price no matter how luxury that is it's like it's a bit of a buzz for everyone right if you look at like traditional luxury brands they a lot of them are quite slow to embrace the likes of tiktok and you know in that kind of social media vein it was almost like a point where everyone was standing firm like no we don't do that influencer stuff and do you remember that period of time now everyone's so engaged and they realize that you need to move with it the same as AI I suppose you kind of you moved early why was that was that decision a sort of we just got to make this work or was that a well thought out strategy I don't think it was particularly well thought out to be honest most things we've done have just sort of felt right in the moment and fallen into place fairly well I think a lot of the bigger brands obviously they're constrained they have big corporate hqs yeah they have investors red tape if things go wrong that's their head on the chopping block if something goes wrong with a campaign i've done well i only have myself to blame that's it yes yeah which is also quite liberating because you can just play and do whatever you want like some things like you say like you probably wouldn't ever get that passed if you were a big corporate but that's the beauty of it and that's why people are so excited when they see your content.

25:08Let's talk about kind of that acceptance from those big

25:12Rochelle: brands. I want to talk about the Flannels partnership. That's really exciting. It's amazing. So tell me everything, how that sort of panned out. So Flannels are the biggest luxury player in the regions. And starting Sellier, I always thought it was kind of so snobby that you You have a Chanel in London, you've got an Hermes in London, but the rest of the regions are completely ignored. And there's massive demand there. So we got into a conversation with Flannels a few years ago, and they have obviously stores up and down the country. So we've put our bags, our pieces in there, and it's been an incredible partnership.

25:52Rochelle: And what has it done for you? Almost, I suppose, people that are London-centric know about you, but I suppose outside of that, is it put different eyes on? Absolutely. And then we plug our content strategy into our regional presence as well. So I might spend a day in Leeds or in Glasgow or Belfast and then we'll go around filming local content, which is actually quite cool because when else would I go to Belfast? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that really builds the brand outside of London, which is incredible. And you're so right because I often find that happens. it happens with us with branding stuff like whenever I do sort of in-store appearances I always want to make sure I get out of London because we're so sport for choice here as you say we're actually and it's fun for you as the brand too to see where your brand exists when it's not kind of under your nose if that makes sense.

26:45Rochelle: Absolutely. I want to also discuss I think people often see the luxury and the glamour of these kind of online businesses but not necessarily the pressure behind them so what I want to know from you what parts of entrepreneurship do you think that people glamorize incorrectly I think you know like now it's like the age of social media and Instagram and people walking in showing their office and showing their store and people assume like oh that looks nice doesn't it that looks very glamorous and luxurious what do you think that people are getting wrong? I think people probably over index the success.

27:25They focus a lot on the success, on the perks, but they actually forget all the sacrifices behind the scenes. I mean, whether it's family time with your kids, whether it's Saturdays that you're actually not spending at home, but you're in the office, a lot of that goes into building a business that's

27:45Rochelle: successful and growing and do you think what what for you is the hardest juggle when it comes to like being a founder and spinning all of the plates what what do you find the most difficult personally I think it's really difficult trying to be a very present mum and also having the pressure of building two businesses international travel uh expanding into new geographies but then prioritizing your children and making sure that they know that they're loved they're the priority um and that ultimately your life is about them it's it's the hardest juggle in the world isn't it and we often like use this word that i just believe is just not real and that's the idea of balance but it's always like something is always pulling you one side or the other and the truth is you actually want to be everywhere at once you want to be at the sports day you want to be at the meeting you want to be filming the content you there are so many things that you want to do ultimately of course our children always come first but it's about making everything work and I think for me I really I don't know if you feel the same but I love that my particularly my girls that they get to see what I do.

29:03Rochelle: And, you know, I mean, this is a crazy place. It's not very zen when it's May half term next week because they're here and they're very involved. And, you know, I think the team are probably like, oh God, it's half term, they're going to be in again. But I think it's, I always, I love raising them knowing that they can, if they put their mind to anything, they can figure it out and, you know, they can achieve what they want to achieve. And I also like them to know that, to have the life that we now live, that there's a lot of hard work that comes with that. And I think it's important that they see that side of it when I am at the office all day, that they understand what it is that I'm doing.

29:39Rochelle: Absolutely. Do you have the same kind of feeling? I mean, I bring my children into the office a few days a week. They'll help me with visual merchandising. They'll look at the pieces that come in. They're only young. They're nine and six. But I like... They love it. Yeah, they love it. And for them, it's really exciting to be involved in the day-to-day of the business and to understand And actually, this is what it takes. And this is what we get from it as a family. And I think for them, it's a bit like playing shops, isn't it? It's a little bit like, OK, let's pretend I'm an adult for the day.

30:11Rochelle: Have you ever sort of got to a point where you struggled with burnout a little? Like where you're like, this is just too much. We speak about this on the podcast a lot, where actually that sometimes we over glamorize. And I'm definitely guilty of this. I sort of pride myself on the fact that I'm a grafter. and I'm like I'll be in first I'll be out last but I will get the job done and I kind of sometimes I think I can toxically wear it as a badge of honor yeah because I'm like it's fine no one will outwork me I'm gonna get this done but actually sometimes it gets to a point where you have to give yourself a little break too I think it happens to all of us ultimately you you want to chase every single opportunity you want to make sure that you haven't missed anything you've given it your all and it for me that's a real reality but we've got this motto at work and it's maximum effort maximum reward so even if you don't want to do something you should push yourself and do it because at the end of the day you'll you'll reap the benefit of that what you put in yeah um you talk about having more than one business so i want to talk about juice yes um tell me all about juice because i think this is where your story becomes interesting to me because you're sort of killing it in in one category and I suppose it alludes to what you said the maximum effort I love that you've decided to enter an entirely different category and I'm such I love a pivot I'm that girl that's like why not let's give it a go so tell me all about juice so juice is a brand new product in its category it's a bit out there um we love out there and it's an intimate suppository that you insert vaginally and it melts inside you and delivers the most incredible moisture and scent so it came out of the idea that we have a beauty product for everything for our cuticles eye drops to make that whites of our eyes whiter but we don't actually have anything for down there so right do you know what i didn't even i've never even thought about that as an idea.

32:13And I've got so many girlfriends who have talked to me about how it feels to go through menopause and to experience dryness, how it feels to be with a new partner and maybe not have the confidence that they wish they had. And I thought, why isn't anyone catering to the part of the market where women can actually choose to have a product that elevates their intimate routine?

32:38Rochelle: and that's how juice was born i mean i love it and i love that that like you say it feels so i can imagine the feeling when pitching this that yeah some people don't know how to take yeah and i gave you the pg-12 pitch by the way we can up it here we're saying i'm just reading this here and it says there's been there's been some feedback about the products online around creating insecurities women didn't previously have and pink packaging not being empowering and worries about intimate hygiene and vaginal health how do you respond to those criticisms do you think the world isn't sometimes when something is the first of its kind do you think the world isn't necessarily ready for those conversations yet or they don't we're ready for the product but they're just not used to handling those kind of conversations Absolutely.

33:27And this is what boggles my mind because a lot of the people who will say, well, you shouldn't have a product for your vagina. When you ask them why, they'll say, well, because you don't need it. But then I come back with the question of, as a woman, you should have autonomy over how you want to look and how your body should feel. I mean, someone might have breast implants or BBL or veneers or hair extensions. Do they need any of those things do we need an eyelash serum of course we don't but does it make us feel better and should we question the women for making those choices for themselves absolutely not so for me it comes back to the issue is I as a woman should be able to decide how I want to look and feel

34:12Rochelle: without other women shaming me about it do you know what it's that's that's by the way that's the clap back that's the tea right there um are you do you think it's almost that like the idea of modern wellness as because it's because it's changed right yes and like things do evolve over the years and I think like you say in that space it's pretty much untapped unless it's coming from a strictly sexual perspective but so I think the idea of sort of changing everyone's perception on that is a tricky thing but it's also going to be something that gets people talking absolutely and you know what's interesting I mean the proof is in the pudding our sales have been incredible so for not everyone needs to like the product but for every person who doesn't like it there's someone who finds immense value in it yes i mean i think of it a bit like the bikini wax when it was introduced to the uk in the 90s salons were boycotted there were protests outside salons saying this is absolutely outrageous how can anyone waxed that today you you wouldn't even think about that you probably get criticized for not yeah exactly if anything now and you so you think about how the narrative has changed do you think as the kind of initial you know those moments of backlash and it's not all backlash is it people are like you say excited it's selling people are enjoying the product but as as that sort of criticism change how you think about the messaging moving forward or are you like no i'm doubling down on this this is exactly what this brand should be the way I feel is that in your marketing you really can't please everyone yes so you have to have a very consistent message don't try and be something to everyone because you won't so you've got a certain demographic of women you're speaking to and if they like your messaging and they love the product that's enough I'm not gonna backtrack on what we're doing and how we're doing it just because of a couple of people don't like it and you know what I so rate that because a lot of brands they hear something and a little nugget of oh god this is really noisy over here and it does take a lot to stand firm on your position you know what your brand values are and the way you execute execute them is exactly the way that you believe and feel that's right for you and your journey and your path so So I think, and it's so that when you've got a clear concept on something, I know what it is I'm entering in.

36:39Rochelle: So I either like it or I don't. And I think that being grey and trying to be something to everyone is where a lot of people fall. Absolutely. What are your hopes and sort of future plans for Juice? How does the kind of next, if we were to sit down and say the next couple of years, what's your hopes? I mean, I'd love to see us in some big retailers. but at the beginning for now our focus is very much building the d2c so building the virality around the brand the product getting people to try and to see how much value it adds and then down the line i'd love to see juice in sephora in boots in space nk in selfridges almost like a ready available like to bring it to to have my eyes on it to bring it to the masses to have it on that high street i suppose i want it to be a product that everyone knows I think there's no doubt about that.

37:32Rochelle: And I think, you know, when you're on the edge of something really exciting is when you know that it's a conversation that could make people uncomfortable. I can imagine you pitching it to people and I can just see people recoiling in the seat. Yeah, you totally can. I want to know, like, since the kind of growth and, you know, your pivots and the way that your career has moved from lawyer to founder of Selya to founder of Juice, how do you think your idea and your sort of definition of success has changed over the course of that time? I mean, success is an interesting thing because it's so personal to what you think that is.

38:11for me I'm really not defined by the things I do I I more do them because I'm a deeply creative person who has a lot of energy that I need to channel somewhere but at the end of the day of tomorrow juice isn't a success and it folds or something happens to sell you I don't think I'd consider myself any less successful to be honest because that's not how I index my value and I

38:37Rochelle: think like for me my idea of success changes like my idea of success is having a business that I you know that I'm deeply passionate about that I'm really excited about that gives me what I need but equally I'm you know for me success is making sure my kids are fulfilled and having like the idea of everyone being happy around me I think over time it just it really does change and I've noticed that since the start of my career to now that my idea of success is so different it used to be like having a certain house or you know living a certain lifestyle and now it's just like spending time with my family like it's so it's it's crazy how it changes over a period of time what what motivates you the most about what you do sort of beyond growth and revenue what's your big motivation I love the creativity that goes into what we do at Sellier and the way we do it so we're not a traditional business that runs big ad spend we really have to be creative about how we grow and so every day we try and think of novel ideas about strategy how we get bigger how we get better so that I find very motivating and that's really full circle for you right because the creativity is what you missed at the legal firm and then that's what kind of triggered the whole thing with your storytelling and the friends being like what are you doing they're now like got it it's paid off what you were doing and it's so funny isn't it I think you're even that you're skewed that way or not like on the podcast we often talk about living in the cringe like sometimes things that might feel cringed to other people we're like embrace it like embrace that sort of the fear of embarrassment I think actually stops people from getting ahead it's almost like living in that and embracing it and knowing that that's gonna propel you forward right exactly and no one remembers it a week later you have to remember that the only person who really remembers your embarrassing moments is you yes most people are so self-focused on themselves and the present that it just it passes and we were actually having a conversation the other day me and a friend and we were saying that people actually aren't that bothered about you like sorry this might hurt your ego but actually they're so busy in their own lane they haven't had time to focus on whether you did that thing or not that you were talking about so I think sometimes we over sort of overthink what other people might say or think or have what their opinion might be about what we're doing and that can stop us but really no one was worried they were concentrating on their thing exactly um I want to do our rocket round now which is essentially our quick fire round we ask all of our guests the same questions so the first one is don't worry if it's not quick because they never hour when two women are talking.

41:20Rochelle: The first one is, what do you believe are the non-negotiables for running a business? Do as much as you can by yourself early on. So don't waste time outsourcing, hiring people. When you're starting a business, just do everything you can yourself. I built the Sellier website myself back in the day in 2019. And I just built the Juice website myself. Now I could have got someone to do it for 10k. I just used a Shopify template and it's good as gold do you know what that is such good advice because i think when people are like starting that initial business plan and they're like i need this i need that i need to borrow this money to make that happen you can i mean we have chat gpt now also which is a massive thing i know some people are really scared about that i'm like happy to embrace it i'm like listen you'll you won't lose your job to it you'll lose your job to someone that knows how to operate it right so i'm kind of there are so many different avenues now to make those things happen actually someone telling you you need a website built for 10 grand is you know you can do something else with that money exactly yeah that's so that's very good advice when did you first realize that you truly launched when I guess when we had our second store in London but there's something about having physical retail and going somewhere and seeing the things that you're selling and people coming in real people there's something about the reality of that that just hits different yeah and that will never get old is that that human interaction is is so special what is the first thing you do when you wake up and the last thing you do before you go to bed oh I wish I had some sort of cool virtuous answer don't worry I look at my phone and I look at my phone so true we're like I'd love to give you this like I meditate for half an hour but yeah you look at your phone you look at your phone she's always on she's always on um what's one piece of advice that you wish you hadn't listened to oh this was very fashionable a few years ago invest in tech everyone was telling you to invest in your own tech tech companies are more valuable nonsense don't do it yeah off-the-shelf solution save yourself some money yeah love that absolutely love that um what's one thing that you wish that someone had told you before you started your career uh the failures really don't matter yes you're so right and I think failures are what actually stops people or the idea of failing too right actually it's a lesson you're one step ahead to know what you wouldn't do again but I think people really bog down on like the idea of failing or that being a bit of self-reflection where actually the thing that you tried didn't work out it's nothing to do with you let's just move on to the next thing and it might be something to do with you and then you learn.

44:09Yeah, there's always that. What's a skill that you'd love to learn? Oh, in my head, I just see myself playing a guitar by a campfire. Oh, I love that. What would be your song of choice? I don't know. Something by Leonard Cohen. Oh, OK.

44:27Rochelle: I love this. I don't know. OK, that takes you into the next year. There's your new hobby. what would be the dream collab for either Juice or Celia whatever way you want to take it oh actually for both Kylie Jenner oh yeah no brainer she is the ultimate ambassador for both yeah do you know what I can see that actually she looks amazing she she loves a Birkin she loves a Birkin she has an insane collection yeah Kylie you need to get hold of a really really obscure Birkin that no one can track down and put it on her radar that's the way i'm on it um if you could choose one female figure as a mentor past or present who would it be i don't know if i believe in mentorship oh that's so interesting tell me i think it's i don't like to learn from other people in that way that's not how i'm wired i very much like to build friendships right rather than someone guiding me from their own mistakes because I think ultimately you learn from your own mistakes, not from other people's.

45:33So I couldn't tell you, but it would be someone who has lived a very colorful, risky life, tried lots of things, failed, got hurt. Yeah.

45:44Rochelle: Almost somebody that's like walked the path that you kind of aspire to walk and that you could learn from. I always think of it like, like, who would you have on speed dial? Like if you could say, I wonder what so-and-so would do right now. Who would you call? Or is that sticking to what you're saying? That actually, no, I need to just find out myself and figure it out. I wouldn't call anyone. I love that. Love that. Each episode, I ask our guests to leave a tip. Almost one real sort of tangible piece of advice that a listener could take from this state. If they're looking to launch perhaps in a similar vein to you or, you know, they like what you've built and they're like, this is the sort of thing that I want to do.

46:26Rochelle: What would that piece of advice be? Really find out how you're going to be unique. Because the only thing that gets you anywhere is a unique point of view that no one else has that gets people to buy into your story, your business and what you're doing. That is great advice. You're so right, because I think a lot of the time people get distracted by so much noise and assuming that you have to take a little bit from other people. And they're doing it like this. So maybe that's how we should do it because they're smashing it. But actually it's about what you're going to do differently. Exactly. And then lastly, I ask everybody this question because we talk about being a lady who launches.

47:07Rochelle: But when it comes to being a lady who lunches, if we're talking like a typical day at work, what are you eating? Where are you eating it? What's your kind of go-to meal? okay so i try and do one really big naughty meal a day okay and a light breakfast so it could be anything i could deliver a shake shack to work nice and then i'll have a really light dinner um or i'll go to zuma which is our local in knightsbridge yeah that you're right around the corner yeah zuma's like the prep of knightsbridge and what's your go-to order at Zuma? At Zuma I like the Wagyu Gunkun it's Wagyu beef with a bit of rice and some truffle on top oh my gosh there you go I love it I need to drop it sellier yeah I need to be around the corner from Zuma looking at Birkins all day that's my dream that is my dream thank you so much it's so so incredible to hear and I mean I've seen online the success and kind of watched on but it's so good to hear everything and good luck with you so I'm so excited for that it feels like such fresh innovation and I'm like I'm down I'm down for it thank you so much thank you

48:28Rochelle: don't forget to follow us on apple on spotify or wherever you get your podcast to make sure that you don't miss out because next time I'm going to be talking to another incredible lady who launched If like me, you're a watcher, then please follow us on YouTube and don't forget to like and subscribe.