The Launch Box: Elevator Pitches, Ditching CVs, and Levelling Up Your Career With RISER (Ep 43)

0:11Welcome back to the LaunchBox. Today we are joined by Suze Bannister and Lameez Buck who are on a mission to make networking, mentorship and business resources. more accessible for women. What started as a simple idea has grown into Risa, a dynamic platform built by women for women that's redefining how we connect and grow professionally. With community at its core, Risa is quickly becoming a go-to tool for ambitious women in business. So please welcome to the podcast, Suze and the Miss. Well, welcome to Ladies Who Launch. Thank you. I'm so pleased that you're both here. I know we've met before and I was desperate to do a launch box with you both I love what you do and I think so many listeners will take so much from this conversation so I'm already really really excited but let's start with a little bit of a backstory so those that don't know you both let's talk a bit about Risa because I'm such a fan and I think what you do is so so brilliant um how did riser come about and what i suppose what problem were you really trying to fix i know this but let's let's tell everybody that doesn't well not to give you war and peace but essentially i've had a 15-year career in the tech industry um hired locally and globally and the biggest problem that i found when i was hiring was that i would see 3 000 cbs for one application and they would all come out with the same keywords everyone would have good communication skills good problem solving skills everybody had great tenacity but what does that actually mean and I could never decipher who was actually going to be the right fit and you would spend you know two to maybe four weeks if things were really busy screening like people and I just thought god there's got to be a better way of doing this and actually through conversations that I had had just through my network everyone had said they've got to where they are today because of their network yeah it wasn't an application or a cv that got them their next opportunity and I thought god well how cool would it be if actually in today's world where we are so digital that we could have almost at our fingertips access to a network but not in a text way or um kind of a an AI driven way actually a human-led way so probably the best way to think about riser is a dating app but for careers it's on it it's so genius and I'm such a visual person and I actually hate like I'm doing a lot of recruiting at the minute and I cannot bear just being sent cvs and the team will say right if we if you want to go through these and see even but it's it's so it for me it's what the way that my brain is kind of wired it just doesn't work and that's why I think Wiser is so so brilliant because that visual aspect sings to somebody like me and I think a lot of people in the creative space right and just feeling that because I would always traditionally ask for a cv and a bit of a video for somebody to explain what they do or I instantly want to sort of bypass that and get on a zoom before we meet to kind of sound someone else I think what you do is so fun but so so brilliant so explain to me for those that don't know obviously you've given a bit of a sort of background of why it was born and I mean why didn't this already exist it's a no-brainer down um but what does riser actually offer and i suppose how do people actually use it to support growth and their career we were just going off the back of what you were saying we were trying to think about the best place where people have been finding long-lasting relationships and good ones yes it's dating apps it's a no-brainer yeah so this is a place where if you flip it into the career realm it's where talent who are looking for a role or hirers who are offering a role can come together and find each other but find the right fit for both of them because what's been happening is we've taken a process where traditionally you had the cv in one hand the handshake in the other you had the human involved we fast forward to now we've digitized it and now you've got chat gpt cvs speaking with ai ats filtering systems and then it takes you a minute to get to the interview process where you get to meet the human on both sides of the table.

4:23We all talk about gut feel but it's so important and culture fit is just as important as skills and experience but skills and experience has been leading the conversation today so we're just trying to flip the script so that you're backed up by your skills and experience but you get to tell your own story plus hires get to show a little bit behind their doors because that's not how it's been working. Talent get to tell their story and then hires just sit there and filter and then you come and find them when you get to the end yeah and I think do you know what I find so interesting about it is actually that like for me and we speak a lot on this podcast about I really hire energy over skill right as a rule um you know unless it's like you know in finance I mean I would hire myself because I know nothing about finance but I've got great energy um you know unless it's like it's really needed like for me it's that feeling and it really is kind of knowing that I could really onboard that person in the team and they would sort of really be with us and yeah I really I really sort of that's always been my feeling um but to see that instantly you need to visually see that right and I think when you don't have perhaps years of experience and a CV that looks glowing and that you've done this and worked you know if you're young and you're starting out in an industry but you know that you're really capable but you don't have those years of experience i think that's where riser is also brilliant because you can really see that energy we're singing off the same hymn sheet yeah we can help you out with it yeah i think what's really interesting you're right because it's the earlier years for sure also the mid but we're going through this really interesting time in the world right now where jobs are changing skills are changing the jobs that are needed today are not going to be the same skills needed in the next five years and so people are thinking about well how would i even use riser the beauty of it is when you download the app you simply upload a video and whether you're talent or a hirer and what our ai does is it's actually empowering connection at scale not trying to replace humans so we will read that video right and essentially we're pulling i'm not going to get techy about it but we're essentially we're essentially putting over 15 000 different data points to actually classify what career archetype you are so are you somebody that is an anchor in a team are you somebody that is a pathfinder and what we then know is those complementary archetypes to pair you with the right hirer so actually we are creating almost that right fit based on what it is that we know about you the behaviors that you show us in the app we use that to help recommend better opportunities and better hirers it's so brilliant i love it well done i love it i love it so much one thing when i think of you ladies i think of the idea of perfecting the elevator pitch and I think this whole concept is so genius because well let's well for those that don't know what an elevator pitch is can you why don't you just explain that quickly the best way to think about it is you said at the elevator you're walking into an elevator you have from floor zero to floor 10 let's just say to convince somebody of who you are and your value so let's say the door's open and your dream hirer or your dream investor somebody walks in that you really want to connect with you have 60 seconds to be able to hook them in and actually deliver your value and then walk away with them remembering who you are that is your elevator pitch and the key is to make them the elevator pitch it just doesn't just end there the key is to make it a next step right it's your it's your first touch at something larger yes would you agree on that lovely summary that was great i would agree with that to me yeah we're buying what you're selling see she's already nailed the elevator pitch i think it's so genius because you do you there are always those kind of funny moments that get presented to somebody and you don't want to blow it so it's almost having like almost having rehearsed if you're gonna be in that situation be able to not blow it and sell yourself and be able to get that meeting or you know them pass that email address on that you might need but how to like succinctly say what it is you do what it is you need and where you're at without sort of going hi do you mind if I could just you know having that confidence is one thing but being able to deliver what it is you need at the other end of it so let's talk about it because it is one of the most powerful and i'd say intimidating tools that you need in business but to have it in your locker and be able to be able to deliver that whenever you might need it you know we call it an elevator pitch but it can be like you're behind somebody in a queue in the coffee shop and you know you just want to nab a minute of their time so having that in your locker i think is really really important can you break down both of you what makes a pitch strong and we'll talk about also where people go wrong but let's start with what makes the perfect pitch if i've got you for 60 seconds and you are potential investors you know employers however that looks what should i be doing well 60 seconds is the sweet spot okay i think i'm gonna get my tea i need my tea for this you relax well what's really interesting in building riser we've uncovered i don't know how to not dramatically say it but we've we've uncovered a bit of a confidence crisis because people are being a bit hidden about what they want to tell the world about themselves it's the whole humble conversation i mean roxy and a foosey just wrote a whole book about confidence in itself so we uncovered this and we thought we have to help people in building this why do you think that is do you think we've got so used to being behind a screen but that we're not like people people people anymore i think we i mean it comes down to intrinsic self-belief in general whether it comes down to lack of airtime screen time i'm not sure but i think it plays a really huge part we're used to kind of being behind the safety of a screen or perhaps in an environment where someone might catch you if you're going to fall yeah you know you're kind of under the hierarchy of someone who's going to make sure you're fine but out there being independent an individual is a bit more of a pressured environment so we crafted a series called design the life you want which is all around building your elevator pitch and right truly it was born out of the idea of a three-course meal just because we like food but also it made total sense i mean i'm yeah so we did it with a starter main dessert and the way we did it at first was with duplo we literally had lego on a table with sharpies and we said to people your starter is your hook so that is your moment to say something interesting to the someone you're about to strike up a conversation with that makes them want to listen further into what you're going to say the important rule of thumb in general is just don't be generic because there are some there are so many interesting things about you and that makes you an individual you know you were saying about the keywords that show up in cvs don't do that so your hook is your moment to say something that is eye-catching scroll stopping conversation holding whatever environment you're in be it in video or in a conversation then your main course of your dinner um is is the the highlights your USPs the meaty bit of the meal or you know the vegan bits to the vegans out there yeah and that's meant to be a really snappy summary of what you bring to the table highlights for your experience not a repeat of your CV it's not meant to be a roll call of what you've done to date who you work for the clients because that's what cv does that's when you start to blend in so it's meant to be i've worked with these clients like this is my passion this is what drives me this is what i can bring to your business we try not to be too specific about it because if we're too specific then everyone starts sounding the same right so we just say dig into what you've done awards accolades or even the way you were brought up the environment you were in it might be super helpful to to your career nowadays my mom was an interior designer now i'm in the creative industry well now I'm in Risa grew up in the creative industry and then the the sweet cherry on top the dessert that bit is your the um the ask at the end so you want you're in that conversation for a reason and you want people in that conversation to know what you're asking for everyone's busy they actually would appreciate you being specific when someone says can I just get 30 minutes of your time grab a coffee you're like cool but what for I'd love for you to tell me what you need.

12:47So in that last sentence. Fast track it. Tell me what you need. I won't be offended. No, no, no. Just get straight to it. It's fine. You don't have to do the waffle. No, not at all. You don't have to do all of that. Don't be afraid to ask. Yeah, it's getting to it. Can we pretend? Can we do like a role play? Yeah. This is so funny. You can make us think. Can we just make believe? So we could do it vice versa. So you could pitch rises to me or I could pitch what I do to you why didn't I do it to you because you can correct me yeah because this is your thing so right so if I was going to say we're in an elevator um the starter so I would say what so hello I'm so it's so great to meet you I'm Rochelle I well I don't know what am I saying am I telling you about myself first say so your hook is something that's really unique about you something that you feel like people would really care about so if i were you i would be like um hi my name's rochelle i was in the girl band from the age of and it's something interesting people would look at you now and be like wow you're this really successful business woman this is so interesting tell me more because that's what you want to feel right okay so that's where i started that was my that was my kind of opening for my career but i'm now a multi you know serial entrepreneur these are the businesses i have this is my passion and then whatever your ask is at the Yeah, you tie it on.

14:11And then, okay, so I do that. So I take it, I'm talking a bit about my history. I was in a girl band. I've had, I mean, about nine lives since then. And I am the founder of a baby to an itchery brand, My Little Coco. And that's actually what I want to talk to you about. And then I get into the meat of My Little Coco, what we've done, some accolades of the business, you know, when we launched. what else what else would you want at this point i would insert the the weird and the wonderful something that someone's going to remember i find that when i'm telling people about my career for example when i say i've come from experiential if i say i smashed the set build for tiffany with a wrecking ball they're going to remember me for saying that they're not going to remember brand activation experiential yes because it's they're like what did you do yeah so i could then say I pitched this in 2018, 2019 and not a lot of retailers bit I was really trying to bring diverse hair and skincare of a premium feel onto the UK high street no one was interested they wanted the brand but without any of the diverse products and actually to this date, week on week our curling hair custard is our best seller I'm in what do you want?

15:29I'm in I don't know yet what do you need? I don't know it just sounds so I want to end whatever it is but for example if I was to say I'm now taking on investment for argument's sake and I think we're in this many retailers up and down the country and I think there's something we could do together, I'd get to the ask and then my dessert would be what? your ask is your dessert my ask is my dessert, okay so my main is my what we've done how it's impressive and then the dessert is I think there's something great that we could do together I'd be really interested in okay this is making sense so my starter is something about myself my past snappy whatever the most interesting thing is the main is what I do and the kind of meaty parts to it and what we've achieved and the dessert is how you could work together and what you want yes exactly oh my gosh I love that it's so interesting isn't it and then the then the real work is once you've figured out your starter your main and your dessert is getting it punchy and down to 60 seconds ish yeah and just record what i've done it myself yeah set a timer on your phone and just record it read it then try without reading because it's going to be different if you're in a conversation yes versus if you're filming yourself on video and it's going so if on riser for example you would upload a general video that says in general what you want next in your career and someone of that ilk might see you but if I'm in a conversation with an investor say then it's a very specific ask at the end of it I might adapt something but the quickest way to think of it is your hook, your USPs, your ask.

17:17Yes. Start to make a dessert. Okay fine your hook, your USP, your ask. Yeah that makes perfect sense. So if somebody wanted to go and do it today you'd literally say like while downloading in the app you would literally put on a piece of paper and just jot some ideas down under each column those three things that Sue's just said jot some ideas down because you might be thinking well if I'm going to a networking event this is the one tool that you're going to want to have to be able to communicate with people so just jot down some ideas and then thread it together and that will really help you kind of visualize what it is then as you say just make it punchy I love it it's so good so now now we've spoke about like what is the ideal and how to do that let's also talk about what we shouldn't do because that's also just as important right because we might think we've got this going on you're like no no no leave that bit out so where do you think most people go wrong I feel like we've got lots to say about this I feel like with a lot of people right now we're living in a world where it feels easy to just hit quick apply on LinkedIn and it feels really easy to we live in you love to call it the convenience culture and we do it's like one click apply you can get an uber to your door deliveroo everything is easy we want everything yesterday that's the problem and i fall into that category likewise and i think that's the thing it's it's not to say that getting opportunities shouldn't be easy or it shouldn't be easier than what it is and i agree and that's why we created what we created but i think that there's a lot of people out there right now and you can see it on tiktok the the hashtag job search is trending and it's because it's awful people are struggling and they think that it's really difficult I think what we like to say is it's not difficult it's different right that's interesting because the job market has changed and what we know is that actually jobs aren't being publicly posted they're actually being filled through network so people who know people who are taking referrals kind of credible introductions that's how they're finding their people yeah I couldn't agree more and so what's interesting is if you put yourself in that headspace and you just think well I'm going to be productive today and I'm just going to apply for 200 jobs using LinkedIn and you feel good about yourself because you hit quick apply 200 times you'll then be upset because you got ghosted and you didn't get a response what you have to do is think about how you set yourself out from the crowd how do you put yourself in an environment in a situation where whatever it is you want you have kind of in arm's reach to get yes and it's not gonna be an overnight thing right yeah that's so interesting it's almost like we keep going back to it but it is really like dating yeah isn't it like you well you can put yourself out there and of course you can do all that and you might find the right person or partner for you but then a lot of times it is like oh i know this person and you'd be great with them and yes we've now gone on a date it is really interesting when you've got somebody and you've got their time you know like i said whether that's in an elevator or whether that's in a coffee shop or whether it's in a meeting do you think in terms of the pitch is there anything that you think people don't really care about that people don't want to hear that that's not going to grab them is there any sort of don'ts in terms of the pitch itself tell us do not be generic it's the same thing as a CV if you were writing them which you shouldn't be writing them because they're we say CVs should get in the bin I just think that you know their time here is done do you think it's a dying breed it's definitely a dying breed yeah yeah I think we've seen um we've seen them make everyone generic as we said and uh no one is able to stand out and now even with the transition of a cover letter which again people you know dear sirs kind regard no one talks like that in real life what we're seeing now um and we were part of a survey um canva's new year new job report back in january oh amazing and they said that 50 percent of hirers are now asking for video cover letters which is me yeah exactly and there's a reason for that it's because the CV is under delivering for people and it's it's not doing people a favor people are losing out on opportunities so now let's give you another stat but for anyone that's thinking why we truly believe that the CV should get in the bin let me ask you a question when do you think the CV was coined like the term the CV oh my gosh wow

21:38Wow. I have no bloody idea. I think most people don't. I've got, genuinely I couldn't even call it. Do you know what, I don't even think I've paid much attention to what CV stands for. Curriculum vitae. Oh I did know that, I did know that. It was coined in the 1400s by a man. Of course, because there's vitae in it. I mean it explains a lot. And the dude that created it was Leonardo da Vinci. I did not know that. What can't he do? The Mona Lisa, the CD. Yeah, wow, fair play. But this is really why, of course it doesn't work now. Because as we said, CD in one hand, handshake in the other. The human was there.

22:20That's what needs to work. And it's just not the case now. We're removed until we manage to get in the room. And one of the things we adore about Risa is that, imagine earlier on in your career, you could directly get into the room with the people who could potentially hire you you're in the room with the important people of course that's what rise is allowing it's a portal into you immediately with the the hirer they're not you're not waiting for them to read an email or anything static it makes so much sense you're right like how have we not upgraded this since we have now i know but you're just thinking it wild is it when you like you expect us to write this I you know wow that's actually archaic isn't it we actually is archaic yeah um so so right let's go back to what we shouldn't do so we're saying be generic we're saying do not be do not yeah yeah exactly do not exactly do not be yeah don't do that um and anything else don't put um and we kind of alluded to it before but don't put don't if you're speaking your elevator pitch to somebody don't give them the keywords and don't tell them the things that you would see on a cv right lift it upwards give us an example so my example would be so probably my hook to anyone would probably be um i had the idea for doppel the google ai try on app back in 2007 and so i'm instantly hooking somebody in but i wouldn't put that on my cv but i'm letting somebody know that i had an idea for something and i created something way back when that has now been created by google so i'm planting seeds in people's heads to let them understand the type of person that i am yeah but you wouldn't find that on my cv yeah but what what could be a generic thing to put on a cv would you know if you was to say i believe i'm ahead of the curve yes that's quite generic but you giving the example that you know that instantly i'm hooked by that but i wouldn't be if someone necessarily said i'm ahead of the curve right or to someone says um you know I've been working in a team and I've got really great problem-solving skills too generic it give me an example what fire did you put out yes okay so it's not like because I think sometimes we actually think that that's a more succinct way of saying something and it's not to be generic because all those things I can do and I have done but actually those examples or bring it to life yeah and I think it brings even if that is written and it isn't visual it brings the human into it a little more and it doesn't make you know but I think we're so conditioned to think we should tell it in a story and I can do this and I can do that but actually be specific don't be generic yeah that's such a good shout another one one that I would suggest is don't undersell and don't be negative about yourself and this always plays back into the confidence thing but we've heard people we've heard people say they're going through a career pivot for example so they've worked in accounting for a lot of their career and now they're interested in shifting to events yeah I've heard people summarize that to me to say well I don't have experience in events I've come from accounting and I say events is all about budgeting you've got huge experience that's related to events but because we we aren't going in we're being humble again but because we aren't going in full confidence with it you're underselling yourself and you're your own worst enemy in that moment so ham yourself up it's all about perspective too right and like you saying like i don't have an experience in an event but of course you know i've been budgeting for events for this many years like you could literally the same thing applies yeah both are true yes but just sort of reframing it a little bit in you know having a sort of confident outlook change it and confidence is the most to me attractive quality in somebody like i'm really attracted to confident people like i'm like yeah i'm instantly buying what you're selling i'm in it's exciting i feel that energy but we can all have that we can all have that but i think there's you know there's self-work in that too but i think there's no it's a real and we have discussed this a lot on this podcast it's a real British trait to to kind of you know worry that that might be deemed as arrogance or feel that that is not attractive or not kind of relatable and we have to be relatable to be liked and I think we sort of do that and we downplay everything and I think we as women we need to get better at that yeah we definitely do and you can train yourself you can definitely train yourself and if you are struggling to train yourself what I do sometimes is ask friends to ask them to tell you what you think is good or colleagues what have I done in my career if I if I was having a an off day let me say I take it in turns um I might turn to me and ask what are the things I'm good at because I totally forgot yeah yeah you're gonna you're never gonna naysay your friend or your colleague because you will respect them so yes that would be my advice to people if you're struggling to figure out or train yourself in that realm just turned and also sometimes somebody will point something out that you haven't even really noticed about yourself because you're so in the doing yeah and you're so used to just getting on and that's how you do and that's how you handle it but you might do that so differently to everybody else that we know and that's actually a great quality and that's why we love you and that's why we ask that of you we ask your opinion on that because you're great at that certain thing so it is worth asking somebody that knows you loves you works with you and you could pull something together really great that actually you didn't know about yourself or you did but you didn't believe it as much as you probably should someone once told me actually is a good little tip um for anyone as you're going if you're starting your career now just something to remember as you're building or even if you're in it go back through your emails and create almost like a hall of fame folder and all of the emails where somebody said love this love your product have the best experience curate them and whenever you're feeling like you're having a bit of an off day go back and read them that is that's incredible but also use that yeah for this cv yeah elusive word cv but use that as your as part of your pitch use that as you know something that you have you know you could put that together and a little one pager and then you've got a highlights rail that would be helpful for yourself right?

28:55Exactly. Speaking of... It's almost like a testimonial isn't it? Yes. Yeah. We also say that as the CV is fading out what's coming in is the portfolio. Oh okay. So being able to show off the work that you've done rather than being able to kind of just write it as a keyword. Yes. So portfolios are a great way to show off like the skill that you have or for example and in your case like your portfolio is brilliant when you would showcase all of your events. Oh it's visual. It's visual as an assumed. And I remember seeing um suzy's website for the first time and what i didn't see on there was um experiential events or any of those things i saw this incredible like the incredible work that she's done i was like oh i want a minute that yeah that's great yes and i think that was that's what's exciting for people where they see something i think i want that yes and and like you say and that then starts the conversation you've seen whatever that is and that's how then you could then pick your brain to say well I saw you did this incredible about what did you actually do for x y and z and that kind of you're just hook it's about hooking people in right and keeping everything interesting I suppose beyond the damn bullet the way you see that on the portfolio thing as well um it's always assumed it's related to the creative industries it's visual what we do from graphic design to events photography video but it's not it's applicable to any career and I think we're trying to we're trying to spread the love when it comes to what it is if you come from finance or law or any sports anything that you could think of you can translate that into a portfolio because it doesn't all just need to be photos of cool things you've made no no it could still be you could still make that visually interesting and make you kind of it sort of catch your attention right and catch your eye the right way i mean we spoke about kind of how old school cvs are but another thing is also a cover letter.

30:44Is a cover letter still a thing? No. It's just a hard no. It's just a hard no. Are letters still a thing? Well, right. And also, I think... Carry a pigeon! Oh, I think we mentioned it, right? It was the report that happened earlier in the year. What we know is that most hiring managers want to see video. And I think that being able, again, because AI, unfortunately, has commoditized the rim word. and that's just where we are yeah and so what people need to do is figure out how they pull themselves away from anything that is generic or that can be commoditized i.e the written word and ensure that you're able to deliver your most authentic self and the only way to do that right now is video it's the only authentic medium for you to be able to connect with another at scale other than turning up at the office and saying hello i'd just like to have a conversation which you know i wouldn't always recommend and also it's not always doable is it right and everyone's busy and yeah that isn't just it's that's the beauty that's the thing that about the old school way that I love that you could actually get a bit more face time with people and it looked a lot different but now like you say it's kind of doing that having that same moment but virtually and it is a shame like I do get it you know for people pre-pandemic pre-covid like even Thursday drinks was a big thing but no matter what you were doing in your career everyone would hang out and a lot of the time that's where promotions happened that's where you build your biggest relationships there's also you know a reason why you know oh god i think it's like over 70 percent or whatever meet their other halves at work like those those things are real because of relationships but actually like in the remote world that we live in today as sue said before everyone lives behind a screen yes but how can we how can we still bring that utilize that yeah absolutely that we've touched on confidence and you know how little that it it feels that we kind of have now in society and i'm all for building that up and people really having that self-belief what advice do you have for getting past that kind of self-doubt and actually putting yourself in the room wearing your hat in the ring and actually kind of just pressing send I'm gonna start with network I think it comes back to the get feedback from others to try and help bring yourself up confidently um I think network sounds like a very big thing yeah but especially when you're starting out in your career you don't have one that's not a thing you're like why is everyone talking about networking I don't have what does that mean is that my teacher I really get it but we say that just ask your your parents friends have jobs your cousins your uncles people people in your close circle they are in a career of some sort so just start there so start by asking them a question about what would you advise i do next is there anyone you think is in the industry i want to go into that i could have a conversation with and then you will get introduction to the next person and the next person and you'll start to build out your own network and by proxy you're kind of building yourself up to feel like you've got a good chance here and your confidence along the way it goes back to people doesn't it but just putting yourself around people asking the right questions not having this in this fear of embarrassment and again we've discussed this a lot because but it comes up time and time again because there is that fear of kind of embarrassing loudly but embarrassing yourself loudly or failing loudly because everything's in this kind of on this online capacity and you say that you've started a business and you've got this scrappy startup and we're all sort of scared to put it out there because everybody knows about everything now but there's also no shame in that like what is the worst that's going to happen something doesn't work out and you try something else and and what what is it that we're scared of what is like why are we scared of failing because it's just trying giving it a go and pivoting because that thing didn't quite work like but I feel I don't know if it's because of this big online presence that there's kind of an intimidating side to that where we're we expect everything to be a success and we see these like overnight companies and this fast growth and everybody seems like they've got it all sussed online nobody does by the way even the ones that are growing fast and I've sat in this chair and spoke to like founders of you know billion dollar businesses and everything in between and everybody is in the same boat just on different scales right and it's all relative to where you are but we're all still embarrassed of failing loudly and I think it's a real I hate that I hate that we're in that time but what do you think what do you think it is that we're that we don't want to put ourselves in those rooms why do you think that now I think that you've got I think a couple of things that when you fail it feels like you're failing publicly now which is harder than what it was before for people but i think that unfortunately there is this kind of rhetoric that if you fail it's a bad thing and i don't think from schools and the education system i don't think we do a good enough job you're so right of encouraging young people to take risk and take chances when you think about kids we're we're pushed into a system a system that feels quite constrained and so to break rules or to do things outside the norm feels like I've done something wrong yeah and I shouldn't be doing that and it's a psychological thing that we've trained everybody to believe and so when you get into the working world you're having to unravel all of that and actually having to do a lot of unlearning yeah it's so true because you're doing exactly the opposite of what you've been taught to do pretty much your entire education it's bad to fail it's bad to fail it's bad whereas when you're like you say when you're in business or you know that of course there are going to be failures along the way but that's actually a lesson like we see anything that goes I don't say goes wrong but doesn't go to plan yeah some people might see that as wrong we see that as a lesson because that didn't work so when we're moving forward let's not do that again let's go actually lean into this because we think this could happen but you're right we're sort of bred to be like you failed that exam that is bad yeah yeah you know what I mean rather than I might not take that next year because that's not really for me I might do something different and put my skill set here you'll say right we're conditioned to thinking it's bad that we're now scared to do it on a public scale and if anyone has been I don't know been said told no to you know rejection is just redirection it's not a it's not a no you are bad it's just this wasn't the right fit but take that no and use it as fuel for the next thing whenever we get we get tons of no's all the time but when you get those yeses oh my god they feel so good and also i'm a real believer in actually you could just be talking to the wrong person yes you could be talking to the wrong person you could you know this just might not be the right day like you haven't found that person that gets you yet yeah but you will yes you will yeah i think failure means failure means that you tried yes which is impressive in itself because not everyone tries but I think what's stopping people is judgment so we always this damn bin but we always say judgment should get in the bin because they're worried of people judging but they're judging that you've tried if you're failing yeah how cool is that that's a problem and also so when I talk to the most incredible founders or like execs and ceos or incredible women like the story that they're sat telling and the success as to why they're sat in the seat is a win after about 20 failures lessons um so i think it's always remembering that you see they're like oh my god that thing really come off for them but yeah should we talk about all the things that didn't And I think that's why I love this podcast, because it's like being open about that.

39:04And I think it's really, really important. I think that will help everybody's confidence too.

39:12I now, you know, and I know this already, you've seen so many women succeed through Risa. Is there a piece of advice or a story that has stuck with you that could inspire listeners right now? oh um maybe just okay so one would be i mean one incredible um woman who joined riser she actually dropped out of university felt quite um self-conscious about the fact that she did drop out thinking that her prospects weren't going to be as great but she knew she wanted to get into the working world and start getting the experience she also knew that she didn't necessarily have the network because she was so early in her career she joined riser and within two weeks landed essentially her dream job in talent management and is still in the job absolutely loving it and so it does it really works if you put yourself out there take that risk and give yourself the opportunity that i'm not sound corny but the universe will reward you you will put yourself in the right situation and break that cycle like we're all stuck in that norm as we said before that actually great things can happen when you when you take risks and then lastly ladies i've love this, I've loved this, it's been brilliant.

40:20If someone is listening right now, they're ready to level up, they're ready to take that next step, what is one small action that you think they can take today to set things in motion? Apart from downloading Rizzo.

40:40Download Rizzo, give us a poll. I'm going to quote my favourite artist, Anthony Barrell, work hard and be nice to people and i'm going to make that non-ambiguous because that sounds a bit fluffy but whether you're early in your career or you're just about to start founding something just work hard and that means roll your sleeves up don't shy away from learning new stuff don't be the one that doesn't do proactive stuff or over deliver because people will remember that so moving into the be nice to people scenario that taps into your network so when you're starting out again be nice try and show up for people um answer favors because when you are founding a company you're going to start pulling in favors oh my god every five to seven minutes and you have to because without shame yeah you have to do it without shame because that you're not gonna you you don't start with massive funding and loads of time there's a you know when there's two of you you have to make the calls and you haven't built that network in your career so I would say now even when you have just founded something if you have that little snippet of time and you have a moment to do someone a favor or they someone ask for advice or a time out of building what you're building try and do it as long as it's not the detriment to your company because that will come back even you're not in it to get something in return but you will but it does and I think that's a life thing anyway right I think that's kind of for me the way the universe works if you're putting good out there yeah it will come back but you're right you're going to need to build that little black book quite quickly so the best way to do that is kind of be all ears but kind of be and without it feeling too transactional there is a there is an element to it that is at the start until you're kind of where you need to be but i think but that loop it still sort of does that cycle is always there isn't it you know even now i'll be like for example a guest will come on the podcast and then they'll invite me to an event and i appreciate they've sat in the seat and they've been generous with their time and their knowledge and their advice for people and you know this isn't a paid opportunity we people come here to share their stories because they like to you know they like to do that but then if I've been invited to an event for them I'll always go and that's kind of like it's kind of like a for me always an unwritten rule like if someone needs help me or I will always help them back and I think it's always been that way and to remember that and it'll always it'll always pay off and I've loved that's part of this and I've made friends through this podcast already which is kind of a crazy idea but it does it doesn't need to feel so weirdly transactional but I think everybody actually does there are so many people that do want to help so when you find those people make sure you help them too yeah I've loved it I feel like I just want to get in my elevator in the office and start pitching I've also never called it an elevator before I've just called it a lift yeah but like I want to get in the lift and I just want to pitch things in 60 seconds just to test my skill.

43:51We're lifting off is what we're doing. There you go. I love it. I love it. Thank you so much. I feel like our listeners are going to take so much from our conversations. I appreciate it. Thank you for having us. Thank you. Love that.

44:09Don't forget to follow us on Apple and Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts to make sure that you don't miss out because next time I'm going to be joined by another incredible lady you who launched. If like me you're a watcher then please don't forget to follow us on YouTube and don't forget to like and subscribe.