Why Every Entrepreneur Needs Better Friends | Frankie James Founder of Ideas Fest

0:00Today I'm joined by Frankie James, founder of IdeasFest and one of the people behind the UK's biggest entrepreneurial communities. After helping build and later acquiring the Great British Entrepreneur Awards, Frankie went on to create IdeasFest, an event that's become known as the Glastonbury for business. So let's find out why she's a lady who launched.

0:32A lightbulb moment launches your business, but consistent habits power it every day after. Today's episode is powered by Starling. Whether you're side hustling or scaling, Starling believes that with the right mindset and tools, anybody can be good with money. It's not about complex number wrangling or losing days to admin. It's creating a smart system of financial habits that can give you active control and build your confidence so that you can focus on being a founder, not the finance team. Search Starling Business to find out more about their monthly fee-free business account. I'm so pleased you're here because I love the way that we met.

1:08We met at our live event, which was so nice. And I was asking you lots of questions in that space, obviously. but it's nice that we get to dive a little bit deeper today, which is always what I want to do. Yeah, have a proper chat. Exactly. I'm very excited that we get to speak. I want to talk about entrepreneurship because I know that what it is you, you embody entrepreneurship as a lot of our listeners do, as we all do. This is our space. This is our safe space. But I want to talk about how it started for you because it sort of begins knocking down doors in South Wales valleys and that's kind of how your start really looked.

1:46I want to talk about that and how your start of success really, really began. Yeah, so I was always in school that kind of could do better if she applied herself. Yeah, I think every now entrepreneur was probably told that. I had really bad attendance, which I'm not proud of. I was distracted easily. You know, I hung out with a naughty crowd, what have you. um but I was always bright enough um so I kind of scraped by stuff right and I was supposed to be the first in my family to go to university and it was kind of this like big thing that my mum and dad would be really proud so when I sat them down and said I'm not going to but hey don't worry it's all going to be fine I've got a job doing door-to-door sales in the valleys on 100 % commission obviously I think their hearts like plummeted um but I did that for gosh two and a half years I think it was which is probably two years too long um and it was the best thing I've ever done because it taught me so much about myself um and it taught me I was competitive and how to speak to people and it was kind of entrepreneurship you know you were responsible for writing your own paycheck um but then I did find out it was a massive pyramid scheme and so I it wasn't going to be you know my my my future forever no you say that you were the one that was supposed to go to uni I feel like every family has the one that's supposed to do as such and it's never normally yeah the one yeah that's written down on paper when you kind of had these ideas of I suppose what we now recognize as being entrepreneurial and entrepreneurship.

3:33Was it framed as such then or was it just like this one will kind of do what she wants? Yeah, it wasn't. I mean, I had a the one class I was pretty good at was business studies. And so, you know, you just think that actually maybe they'd have taught me or spoken to me and said this might capture your attention. Maybe here's some extracurricular things that you can do. But there was obviously no social media back then I wasn't seeing entrepreneurs you know my view of what business and entrepreneurship was like was the apprentice and I didn't really like identify with that it was aggressive it was cut through so um yeah university I think was just the expected path I was the oldest in the family so it was supposed to be what I did um I think looking back I was lost um I didn't feel equipped for like what was next um and I had really no idea what my options were beyond university um and nobody really told me so um yeah I sort of floundered around a little bit um before I kind of got on the path which I think is so common I think it's so important that we always acknowledge that I think there can be a real I was talking to one of my sister's friends recently and it she's in that sort of sticky period of her life where she doesn't know what's next and she feels like she should have everything figured out or you know is she a career girl does she want a family I'm like guess what you don't have to decide and you don't have to pigeonhole yourself you can be all of those things or none of those things you know and I think there is that period of time where like you say you look back and you probably were a little bit lost and there's that pressure that society puts on us that's I suppose that we have to have the answers and we have to know what we what we are doing next or what's going to be next yeah absolutely and I mean look I've spent decades with some of the UK's most successful people and even when it looks like they've all got it figured out none of them do and I'm lucky to see that vulnerable side yeah and I think we've got to get better at sharing that because you know we're all creating content we're sharing our lives and I think there's a risk if we're not honest and vulnerable with it that we're kind of of romanticizing or glossing over the hardship and the struggles yeah what do you think that period of time when you were like you say on 100 commission and you were knocking down those doors what do you think that sort of taught you and instilled in you today so much um when I learned I was competitive um because there were two really yeah that's so interesting because you it was so I mean when I look back now I'm like how was I duped into this but it was one of those where you'd run in at the end of the day and you'd ring a big bell on the on the wall and if I wasn't the one ringing the bell and then called out the next morning it's like one of the top sales people I was like angry going into the next day I was like my competitive streak was like heightened so um I remember so well they started me on the day same day as another person and he was a little bit older than me a little bit more polished kind of I I think they thought he would be better and I thought he would be better um and then I realized actually I had a chance because I was quite good at talking to people and relating to people and uh talking to people from all different walks of life and I beat him and I just remember thinking you're not you're not as useless as you kind of thought you were a friend you know so um it's so interesting isn't it what that does to you and also those little moments that at the time they might not seem like a big deal but actually shape you shape you and also what that teaches you in the moment is actually okay that might give you a bit more hunger maybe a bit more drive okay I didn't think I was going to be him I didn't think I would be ahead of him and I am so yeah what's next yeah so obviously you decide then that this was a sort of big scheme energy and not something that you would actually want to be a part of what was then next for you university um so I did go to university you were the child yeah well no actually my brother and sister had beaten me at that point so um but I think the confession streak came back yeah but I do think at that point it was kind of like right I've got my tail between my legs a little bit because I've kind of told mum and dad that I'm going to go on and I'm going to be rich and I'm going to you know climb up this amazing company and I'm going to run an office somewhere and have a team I was 18 19 right um so I went I decided I'd go back to university or sorry I'd go to university and I was 21 at the time and I'd fallen in love in my in my home city so I wanted to stay in Cardiff right and so I just literally remember flicking through prospectuses seeing where I thought I could get in because Cardiff University is very good and I didn't think I was academic enough for that so I looked at kind of the sister university and I chose modern history and politics and for the life of me I couldn't tell you why like I genuinely couldn't tell you why that is a decision I wish I could go back and change really yeah what why I think I chose it thinking like what could I bear to like learn or read about oh that looks quite interesting which isn't really why you should pick a university course um I just I don't think I really understood what was on offer um I didn't really understand like my my pathways um and I I I don't know why I probably didn't take responsibility for kind of leaning into it and learning about it enough but it was literally a case of that looks all right I could do that um will I get in and was it based on will I get in and and how is the commute because I'm in love and I need to be in it do you know what I mean was it at the time it wasn't necessarily what you were studying but how you were gonna go proximity to home uni and and be able to do what you wanted yeah yeah in your life at the time yeah but it was there were so many things wrong with that choice um like one the course was only there was only 20 people on the course so you didn't really get the university experience right um secondly uh it was because of my age I was classed as a mature student we did have somebody who was like in their 60s on the course so there's basically me someone in their 60s and then loads of 18 year old boys and how old were you at the time I think I was 21 22 so mature and there's a big difference between a 21 year old girl and 18 year old boys right of course so I didn't really like make friends what would you if you were gonna go back and do it differently what would you swap it for I think I'd have absolutely loved a marketing or a business focus one I think I'd have adored that um I think would I if I think I thought I was bright enough and like could have got in on my previous grades I might have gone on a completely different path and taken something like law um and that actually scares me because I think that would have taken me too far away from where I've landed now yes which I love so tell me about publishing so because that was then another sort of big chapter for you yeah Yeah.

10:43And publishing sounds really glamorous, right? It wasn't. So my dad, his background was in events. He used to run the Ideal Home Show and then went over to the States and ran all of their sort of conference and expo activity. And the internet then became a thing. And everyone in the events world was really nervous about whether the internet would completely kill off events. And I don't know why, but my dad decided actually the best thing for me to do is to really learn the Internet. And the best way to do it is to set up a website. So he set up this website. It was an online resource for business owners and entrepreneurs, small businesses.

11:24And I wanted a job alongside my studies. So I went to work for him. And back then, the obvious thing was give the young person the social media because social media was brand new. So it was like, who does the Twitter? Who does the LinkedIn? You know, and I didn't know what I was doing, but nobody did. Yeah. So I took that on. And as a byproduct of that, I got to meet amazing entrepreneurs, go to great events, like write about their stories, you know, do all of that stuff. And social media was in its infancy then. So, yeah, I was by no means an expert, nor am I now. And when you were sort of surrounding yourself with those young entrepreneurs at that time, did that ignite something in you or did you sort of recognize yourself in the people that you were spending time with?

12:14Yeah. So they actually they weren't the majority of them weren't young entrepreneurs. They were absolute rock stars. Right. That if you imagine when the Internet came out and it was probably before we all sort of started talking about personal brand, they wanted to use the Internet, which was new to get their voice out. And a lot of them would do that through, you know, maybe writing guest articles or contributing to publications. And so we had, you know, the founders of King of Shaves, Poundland, Terribly Sad, but Kanye King of Mobile Wars. We had all these incredibly accomplished entrepreneurs using our platform to share their story because they're, you know, that it was their first foray into writing for online.

12:58so it I was inspired by all of those people and also I think um quite humbled by how normal they were you know you know you see the brands you see them on the shelves or on the end product yeah they were just normal generous amazing people with vulnerabilities and that definitely 100 % sparked something in me I love the idea of you and your dad working together like this it feels particularly with his background and it feels like the right fit what's it like sort of being in those founding moments of a business with your dad what like what was that experience like for you because I think I'm always so interested when you know founders are often co-founders with whether they're partner or sibling or parent like I wonder how it changes the dynamic of your relationship or does it just feel like there's that element of safety there yeah it definitely does change the dynamic of your relationship I think of out of I've got I've got siblings and I think I was the one talking to him the most but it was never necessarily like a father-daughter chat it was you know have we got enough money to pay the staff has the website gone down has that email gone out that sort of thing um and we don't work together anymore and actually it's so lovely that when we do speak that it's about him going out on his boat or you know what have I been up to on the weekend all of that stuff particularly after having that experience together I imagine that you'd now value your relationship so much more 100 % but I have now swapped that because my partner is my business partner so like I don't know keep it in the family somewhere obviously a few years on where you're helping other people you then decide that you don't just want to help the business, you want to own it.

14:49So tell me about the start and how you get to that point. A light bulb moment launches your business, but consistent habits power it every day after. Today's episode is powered by Starling. Whether you're side hustling or scaling, Starling believes that with the right mindset and tools, anybody can be good with money. It's not about complex number wrangling or losing days to admin is creating a smart system of financial habits that can give you active control and build your confidence so that you can focus on being a founder not the finance team search starling business to find out more about their monthly fee-free business account so from the publishing we'd launched the great british entrepreneur awards um which sort of does what it says on the tin right it celebrates incredible entrepreneurs And we've been so fortunate to celebrate entrepreneurs before they become household names.

15:42So I had a taste for that. I really loved it. When we first launched it, it was a normal awards program. It was 300 people, you know, at a venue in London. The same, if I'm honest, the same as many others that are out there. It's gone on quite a journey since then. I absolutely adored that. And my dad spotted another opportunity and he really wanted to go and run with that. And it's turned, you know, it's been incredibly successful. And I thought, maybe this is my chance. We've launched this thing together. Let me raise some cash, buy those assets out and lean into it and see where I can take it as a brand.

16:20And then from there, you know, different strands have popped up. Like we've got the startup awards and the UK fast growth index. They're two things that my partner had founded independent of me in Wales. And I dragged him into the business and said, let's try and make them big and national. And then, of course, Ideas Fest. Well, tell me about this, because, you know, when we were first talking about the live, I was just I had so many questions about the Ideas Fest. We had a we had a small segment and we had to get through it and you wasn't the only one on the panel. But this, I think it's it's just so brilliant.

16:57tell us about for anyone that doesn't know what the ideas fest is it's almost like an elevator pitch isn't it tell us about the ideas fest and i kind of yeah i just i want to deep dive into this i love it okay cool so ideas fest other people call it like glastonbury of business and i love that it does what it says on the tin um essentially uh we stick thousands of entrepreneurs in a field for two days and magic happens um so there's all the stuff that you get at a conference there's great content and amazing speakers but then there's a load of stuff that being outside in an informal environment gives you that I don't think that you get at a conference so real human connection um the opportunity to have fun because business is really hard the opportunity to I think yeah I said connection but I can't sort of understate that enough because you connect with someone far more when you're really real human than when you're at a conference and you're stood around with a lanyard on and a poser table and an awkward mug and saucer and trying to work out how can I get into that conversation over there without it feels really stiff doesn't it it's just not totally that it's almost like what you've done is make everyone comfortable in a space and then everyone sort of decides if they want to make these relationships or how that you know how they're going to communicate with one another it's genius well I'd love to say that it was like a big plan that I'd plotted for ages, but it was completely out of necessity.

18:26So if you remember in 2020, the pandemic meant that we couldn't do events. So I remember clearest day sitting on my kitchen table, stressing would I be able to pay people? Thank God the furlough schemes come in. I can put some staff on furlough. Oh, my God, sponsors are still willing to support us and they want us to do webinars and we've got enough money to keep the lights on. But I'm bored as hell. like I really miss people I miss events I miss being creative you can only be so creative on a webinar I think so this idea sort of came into our heads which was could we do an outdoor event because in the events industry it looked more likely that they would return than indoor events okay at that time you know we were all talking about what does the new normal look like oh gosh And it's not that long ago, but it also seems like a whole other world.

19:20Right. So I had no idea. Would I ever be able to do a conference again? Would I ever be able to do a big award ceremony again? Would people have to be sat like six metres apart from each other on tables of four? How sad. Yeah. So, yeah. So the seed was planted. Then real life events didn't really fold out that way. You know, events came back and we were really fortunate with that. But there was this little niggle in my head that was like, that's a really cool idea, regardless of it's just because of the pandemic or not. And we were really fortunate to get a relationship with somebody who had an existing festival.

19:57Obviously, it had a tough time through Covid and therefore was happy to let us sublet their festival in year one, which meant I didn't have to learn everything from scratch. Yes, yeah, because I can imagine the mechanics behind putting a festival on. I mean, I see it with the live shows that we put on, but to put a festival on, I can only imagine. Yeah, it's a steep learning curve. Yeah, I bet. And I'm still learning. So what did you learn? Because that subletting thing is actually such a genius idea. What did that enable you to do? And what did you learn from putting the first one on in such a way?

20:34so it basically meant that we could concentrate on what we did know which was putting good conversations on stage right putting good people in the field yeah essentially everything else was kind of taken care of now there are a few things that aren't great when you're sort of subletting um somebody else's space because the space isn't completely designed for you yes so we were putting like an in conversation on stage that was designed for like a 10-piece rock band so there's a little bit of a disconnect but I was able to go ah we've got something we've got something here and this could be something really really special and what was the kind of engagement like and what was the feedback you know you put these tickets on sale and was it did it become quite apparent that people are really interested in this as an idea I think it depends which audience you looked at so um we were really fortunate we we've got a database a community whatever you want to call it of over a hundred thousand people that have engaged with stuff that we've done so we weren't starting from zero um but if you imagine when we launched um we had no um track record uh we had no photographs no content no video um we were literally just and the ai didn't yeah that would have helped it would have helped honestly although when i did try and do some ai images i mean they're horrible like they're horrible someone in the office did one of me the other day and i was like no it's not gonna work yeah let's just let's just do a shoot um so we literally emailed people and said we're putting something on um kind of trust us it'll be great and we built it as we went you know um and 1200 brave souls booked and came along yeah so it was it was um it was a good first year it's grown quite a lot since then i do remember year one though sitting on the top of the field i remember it so clearly sitting on a bench having a coffee like literally like this uh high-vis jacket on and I could see the car park and I was like what if nobody comes oh and everybody knows that feeling and everyone can relate to that thing whether you've put on an event whether you are worried that people might turn up to your birthday it's like that feeling is just so scary isn't it horrible and then one car came and then five cars and then by the time I think there were like 50 cars I was like okay cool okay we're gonna be all right we'll be all yes yeah there's 50 people that we can give a good time we can have a whole festival it's so scary i want to just sort of read these stats here that i've got because you touched on it slightly just there um but today the business reaches more than 100 000 entrepreneurs each year attracts around 5 000 applications and welcomes more than 1500 founders to the awards at what point did you realize do you think for you that you'd sort of become responsible for one of the UK's biggest entrepreneurial communities obviously that first event will give you a real glimmer of hope but what point did it really dawn on you that like I did that I think when we when we look at the numbers combined because we've got the startup the UK Startup Awards, the UK Fast Growth Index, Ideas Fest, and then people that just sign up because they like what we're doing and they kind of want to keep an eye on it.

23:51When you step back and you look at that big number, and not only that, you look at the success stories that have come through it, who we met in their early days, and, you know, maybe they've grown and sold or, you know, they're a household name and everyone, you know, knows who they are. Like when you realize that they are choosing to be part of what you're doing and they've been part of it since you know day one um yeah that's that's super super special um and yeah people just tell me all the time that you know that we've created spaces where they've met their business partner their investor a mentor or even and I think just as important as anything a friend yes because I I love what you do because entrepreneurship is so lonely.

24:38It's the most isolating thing ever. And like you might have a great group of friends. It doesn't mean that they necessarily understand the journey that you're on because it can look so, so different, can't it? You know, being an entrepreneur and, you know, having friends that are in a completely different space to you. Yeah. It's really hard to share those highs and lows because, of course, they get it because they're your friend. once I get it they kind of want to get it but finding a friend that does it hits completely different yeah and it doesn't have to be lonely you know there are groups out there like what you're doing what we're doing there's there's others as well you know I certainly don't say we're the only entrepreneur community there's people doing amazing amazing things and we like to collaborate with other communities as well but I just think when you can phone up a founder who has had to fire someone, has had to, you know, make tough calls when they've lost a deal, when they haven't slept, you know, when they're stressing.

25:36When you can call up somebody who can just listen sometimes, maybe give you some advice, maybe tell you what to do or what not to do, or just make you believe that it's going to be okay, or it's not. But, you know, someone who just understands. They might have been in a similar situation. or they might have a friend that has. It's just sort of being able to sound it out with someone that actually sort of gets it or will listen in a way that you know that they're with you. It's completely different. And I think that's why what we all do is so, so incredibly important. You mentioned your partner and how that you're involved in business together.

26:17And it's something that I said that I'm always a fan of. You know, I think anybody that can do that and their relationship still be because I think for me I do I work with my husband but we don't have every we're not in actual business together we do the odd bit together and I'm like I actually like those moments but I think that's probably because I don't do it all the time it's quite fun we're at work together today but we've had a real mixed bag of stories on this podcast that some women are like I did and it was the worst thing I ever did or it was the best thing I do because there's a trust like no other.

26:51And I know that we've always got each other's back. Yeah. First of all, how did the two of you meet? So Dylan is the complete opposite to me. He's a professor by trade, I guess, if that's what you'd say. He's a professor of entrepreneurship. And he was like one of the youngest, if not the youngest professor of entrepreneurship in the UK. Well, there's no one that's going to get you like Dylan, is there? Exactly, exactly. So we met in Cardiff because Cardiff's quite a small place. and people had always said you guys should meet and I think on the surface we were probably um seeing each other as kind of competitors because at the time I had the Great British Entrepreneur Awards he had the Wales Startup Awards and the Wales Fast Growth 50 um so we went out but it wasn't a date it was a I don't know a business kind of catch up with someone I should know more about what they're doing and because you're in a similar space yeah and then the rest is history so I love it so much and how do you find it now was I suppose you've never known any different right if your dynamic has been yeah sort of so he didn't come into the business right away um he had his his academic career and and I guess what he was doing awards wise was almost like a side hustle right and going exceptionally well um so it was a few years in uh when I realized I we needed more um I might I might regret that now saying that we needed more but we wanted to the Great British Entrepreneur Awards was one brand we wanted to reach uh entrepreneurs far earlier and I loved what he was doing with the Wales Startup Awards so it started with that and I said it's so good and well respected in Wales what happens if we take it across the UK um and I think we joked and said well if you don't come into the business then I might have to launch one on my own and then we'll be competitive it'd be really horrible so um so yeah he he came on the journey and I think he'd say the same as me it depends what day of the week you ask us and what it's like working with your partner when we're good we're really good on fire and yeah but it's tough you know and I definitely when I said this to him the other day I feel like we've lost the ability to talk about anything else well I was going to ask you this because it does come back to that doesn't it like when do you know at what moment to stop talking about work like how do you because I know what my brain is like if I if Marv was in business with me I like want to talk about it all the time particularly if something you know so it's good to happen it's like what good bad the ugly right I'm like right okay we've got to go through this we've got to go through that and I call with the people that I work with.

29:27If that was Marvin, I wonder if I would be able to switch off. I don't think I personally would. I can't. But it is something that I'm trying to grapple with and take control of because it's not just the relationship thing. I think I've lost myself in work and business. You know, like that's become my entire personality. and so I'm trying to do more things that are not connected to work yeah my mates are my entrepreneur pals you know I've got obviously I've got school friends and I don't hang out with them enough and I want to but everyone's got their own lives and we're all living different parts of the country and stuff um but the lines are so blurred you know because that because they're the people that you have the most in common with that so it's so hard to your friendship not to sort of go from zero to 5 ,000 because you've got so much in common when you are of the same mindset what do you what are you trying to do more of that takes you out of work um what am I trying to do more of I mean it's funny because one of the things that does take me out of work but it's kind of work is the the new business ideas extreme that I created which is where we take entrepreneurs out of their comfort zone and do things like a rickshaw rally across India brilliant um now on the surface of it it's work and I'm with founders however there's only so much thinking about work that you can actually do when you're driving a rickshaw through Bangalore rush hour and a cow walks in front of you yeah for sure stuff like that well in theory it's I know on paper it's work but actually you're but you're just doing it with people that have a similar background to you right yeah absolutely it's um honestly it's one of the biggest joys that I feel like I've now carved out for myself it's like we're doing it every year and I get to see the most amazing places in the world I get to see that because I've done it twice now and the first time I mean I think my hands were like that the whole time because it was just a terrifying experience the second time I I knew a little bit more what to expect and what I was doing so I was able to step back and look at the transformations in people in the short space of time from day one to day five when you kind of go into a group of people you've never met before some are super super accomplished and well known and you're tasked with this terrifying challenge you know to get yourself safely across India and you see people actually change on a day-by-day basis you know it's the can I do this I can do this um you know you have a few diva tantrums because typically we're all used to being like the main characters and you can't be a main character when there's 50 of us here yeah three in a rickshaw um and oh it's it's so special to kind of witness that journey what you've done is be really smart as you're talking i'm just thinking about this what you've done is actually made your need for escapism to take yourself away from work work so you're not feeling guilty whilst you're there because you're actually doing something productive but actually you're getting the escapism you need 100 but there is photos and video evidence of some of the women on laptops in the back of rickshaws um like literally doing calls and doing investor meetings and stuff but i just think it adds to the hilarity and like the experience it's part of the fun i mean you can't like you say when you're when you're that way inclined you can't there's always they say the office moves everywhere right even on a rickshaw yeah in india absolutely wherever you are with a cow walking past that's just the way that it is um I want to talk about what's next for you because obviously the ideas extreme is probably the newest venture right yes yeah and I mean already off to incredible start what do you think obviously for you I can see it in your DNA that you love to encourage motivate celebrate the entrepreneur connect the entrepreneur know what else what would be if we were to sit down in a couple of years time and you're like okay this is what I don't feel like there's not going to be a next few there's always going to be something new what what is next I think that when we launched ideas fest we thought that it would be a small part of our business and really yeah we really didn't see it growing to what it is going to be this year in like too short a time and that surprised me and it's excited me for what the potential is now we've got no ambition to grow it to like a Glastonbury size um but there's a lot more that we can do with it you know do we do some ideas fests overseas we've had lots of interest there um do we grow the footprint even bigger probably yes a little bit um do we push the boundaries of what you can do because you can have a lot of fun at a festival style event so there's that stuff and then in terms of what's next I have no idea but I'm kind of keeping my eyes open and I find myself in such a fortunate position that I'm meeting incredible people and I just think that at some point something will line up when I'll meet somebody who wants to go on their next adventure and we've got the trust we've got the relationship we think our skills will complement each other and I'd like to go off on another adventure but I don't want to say goodbye to the one I'm on now yes what I want to do is kind of take myself out of the weeds of of that um so that maybe I can free up a tiny bit of time for something else whatever that may be that is such a nice outlook and such a sort of nice position to be in like you say that you're open to it but you don't want to take yourself away from where you are because you love it I love what I do and I think that smarter more commercially savvy people than me would you know be all about chasing the biggest pound and like you know making the bigger margins yes I know I've got to do that but actually what I what I really care about and what gives me joy and why I still think we're here after doing what we've been doing you know with the awards for decades if you combine Dylan's it's because we haven't always done that so yeah we've we've we're people first we're community first and it served us quite well now yes would I like a nice payday at some point yeah I would and that's okay and i think that we can't you know shy away from that but is it my be all and end all no absolutely not and i think with what you're doing it's it's crucial that it's people first it doesn't it wouldn't be able to operate in the same way if it wasn't yeah where would be your dream location your first stop if you went overseas somewhere warm oh yeah that's it we had a few offers um last year and i don't think we were quite ready for them right um so last year was quite a step up and everyone that came said wow you know this has grown from year two to year three um don't we know it don't we know i'm exhausted this year they'll see see that again for sure um but i think this year was really about proving that we could go up another level um and so maybe if those conversations come back in the next year or two you'd be able to fulfill that but now it doesn't yeah at the time it wasn't right yeah i think if you if you run too fast things collapse i agree and particularly if you kind of you've already grown quite some you know taking it overseas and you i suppose you'd feel like you have less control because it's yeah new territory and yeah exactly and we're a team of like nine at the moment so i um yeah i don't think we could take it in the future in the future in the future um right i'm gonna do the rocket round now okay if you're ready they're supposed to essentially be quick fire questions i mean on this podcast we're yet to be quick fire but we try we try and that's all that matters um the first question is what are the non-negotiables do you believe for running a business uh community and i would say that but i think build your community and your network before you need it and don't make it transactional just get out there get to know great people help them before you ask for something but having good people in your orbit pays dividends yes yes that is a perfect answer um when did you first realize that you truly launched that moment that i spoke about on the top of the hill um and seeing people that thought that a glastonbury for business would be their idea of hell love it you know just seeing the magic that happens when you put people in a space and you watch incredible things happen like investment get raised um you know the stories afterwards I think they really keep me going and go this is why I'm at my laptop at 2am yes yeah yeah you're making it all worth it for me what's the first thing you do when you wake up and the last thing you do before you go to bed look at my phone I'm not gonna lie I'd like to say that I have a nice bath and lemon water and you know meditate I don't don't take life advice from me in terms of that I've not got it figured out I'm trying to um but I am obsessed and I'd like to be slightly less obsessed to create room for something else um but yeah I um you live and breathe I live and breathe yeah I at the start of the year I started sleeping with my phone outside the room yeah and it's actually been a game changer because I would just get up go to the bathroom and check it no matter what yeah and I was becoming a bit of a slave to it and I started sleeping with it in the living room and my heart went I know and so did it for me first of all and I was like oh but I knew I did have a bit of a problem with it like I'm happy to admit that I'm exactly the same where I'd love to say I was meditating before bed and doing all the things but I wasn't yeah my phone was my meditation and it wasn't in a in a way of like okay phew that's done that or I've woken up with an idea I need to quickly send that message before I forget in the morning I was just that person and now I am way better I've been away recently and I didn't sleep with my phone away but I actually I feel like I'm so out of the routine of checking it now yeah that I was off it which is really important to me I feel like I just I wasn't sleeping a good sleep and now I'm actually realizing that what problem am I gonna solve at 2am yeah like what's gonna happen yeah I know you're right um I know this is very new so I'm not preaching this because I'm still sort of I probably could be swayed.

40:02But I just think to myself, if I do that, what can be done at this time? Nothing. No fire is going to be put out right now. Just sleep. And then tomorrow I'm going to have a lot more energy when I wake up to get on with it. That's the advice I'd give someone else. But you know, I just find it really hard to take your own advice. But try it, maybe see. Yeah, I'll do it tonight. Yeah, sleep with it in the living room. That was my thing. And then my whole thing was to read three pages of a book and that's how I'd get it back. That was my trade. And I do, honestly, It's crazy what it does for you, but it's being consistent, and that's the toughest bit.

40:36Try it. I will try, I promise you. See, message me afterwards and let me know. When you're allowed your phone, message me back. What's one piece of advice that you wish you hadn't listened to?

40:48To hire senior people with fancy job titles. I made that mistake before. I remember working with a client, and the person I was working with was extraordinary. And when they got made redundant, I thought, oh my goodness me, this is our opportunity. She likes her, she knows what we do, let's pull her in. And it's very, very different going from a large organisation to a smaller one. And so what I've learnt is the best hires are not necessarily because of someone's CV. And, you know, you can, with the right attitude and not personality, because I think you need, definitely diversity of personality and a team to make it work but when you you just you get that I don't know I honestly don't even know how to say it but it's it's it's not something that can come across on a cv it's the vibe you know and you can read it and you can you know if they are your people or not and you know if you're going to be because you do have to all be in and you have to be in it together and it's one of those things it's really hard when you're hiring or it's for your baby because you we can't expect that someone's going to feel as passionate as we do yeah but you can really understand if they get the journey that you're on and I think like you say that doesn't come across on paper but you can really read that in person 100 % and in a small team you know you are kind of a team of generalists and so you need people that and I'll do the same you know I'll roll my sleeves up and I'll wipe down the stage if it looks a bit messy and I'll and I'm not too proud to do that no running around with a clipboard and calling something you know And I want a team of people who, when you need to do it, an event, you know, hard deadline, people are walking through the door or the gates.

42:29We all pull together and get it done. You pull together, you get it done. And I think that's what it is now. But I think when you're the founder and you're the person, I suppose, that's leading in that way, if the team can see you leading in that way, like you say, I'll be mopping the stage if I need to. I don't care whatever we need to do to get this done. Yeah. It filters through. And I think then that's where you all pull together. Absolutely. It is important. It's very, very important. um what's a skill that you'd love to learn uh to DJ oh I love this so I'm not going to go down the work route I I know where my gaps are work-wise but I think that I need help in taking myself out of work yeah um and I think that I got bought some decks a couple of years ago I haven't touched them um but we are doing a um an activation ideas fest someone's come to us with doing a um people who've never DJed before getting an intense couple of hours of lessons before Ideas Fest and they're having like a battle.

43:23Stop, this is brilliant. And they want me to be one of them. And I'm delighted because I can then make that work. So it's work that I'm going to be practising. And obviously I'm competitive. And it'll be fun. And I see your methods now. There's a pattern in your method and I love it. What, turn a hobby into work? Yes, because then you're doing it guilt-free because it's still sort of coming under the work umbrella, but you're giving yourself that space. commission exactly that oh my god i love it so what's your what's what do you think will be your opening song oh see i don't know like i'm absolutely obsessed with this artist called self-esteem oh my god maybe i know the song so i'm not going to sing it okay literally not going to say you know it's one of them that i'm like i love this song and i would never know the artist one of her songs called focus is power was kind of used as the um like i don't know if it was the official or unofficial anthem for the lionesses okay um so i think you'd know it yeah probably But she makes songs that make you feel completely heard and seen.

44:25If you're like a woman, I would guess mid 30s to mid 40s. It's the songs that you can kind of scream out with your best mates. I'm doing it on Friday this week. She's coming to Cardiff. Oh, amazing. It's like going to church. Yes, that feel good music. Oh, OK, so that's going to be our opener. Yeah, I think so. Strong start. Yeah, unless someone convinces me that I need like something that everyone will know, because I do want to win as well. Yeah, well, then you're going to need that. I'll weave it in somewhere. You're going to need a big old crowd pleaser that everyone's going to be able to sing along to straight away.

44:52I'll work it out. I love this for you. This is great. What's one thing that you wish someone had told you before you started your career?

45:03That, why not you? You're as good as anybody else. And I'm 40 next year, and I do think that it's taken me until the last 18 months to realise that there's a lot of bull that goes on. And that a lot of people are portraying a show. I was like, are we allowed to say full of shit? Full of shit. And why not me? You know, if someone's going to create this audacious thing that people call Glastonbury for business, why not me? If someone's going to take that internationally in the future, why not me? Yeah. Isn't it sad that it takes us to this point to have that outlook? This is one thing when I'm like, think of like the kids that I'm writing, and particularly the two girls.

45:47I'm like, I just, it's that, it's that thing that we're almost raised not to be too obnoxious, not to be too, you know, almost go for it, but don't think that you're all that. And I kind of just want to change that narrative for them. I actually want them to think they're good enough. And I wish that it doesn't, didn't take us to whatever age to be like, you know, oh gosh. I don't need permission. Is there something wrong? Have they booked me because someone else has pulled out? No, Michelle, they've booked you. You know, like it's that idea of that it dawned on us a little bit later. Yeah, of course, because that's what I bring to the table.

46:21And it's being comfortable with being OK with that. It's that real, I don't know, it's that thing that we're taught that it's definitely a British thing anyway, that we're taught to kind of, you know, don't be too over the top about it because it's people who think you're above your stations and you mustn't be. And I don't have children, but I think I see the younger generation. I see such like amazing promise in them that they do believe, you know, and I think that way more confident than we were. Yeah. I mean, but look what we were kind of asked to read or watch, you know, it's all like confidence destroying rather than the other way.

46:58So I am. Yeah, I'm hopeful. Yeah, me too. I love that. What would be the dream collab for you? oh um i would love a tv program on something like ideas extreme um because i just think i could see that yeah i think it would be brilliant and it doesn't have to be the rickshaws we've talked about putting a load of entrepreneurs on a desert island um and seeing what happens we're doing i'm watching i'm watching i just think real people who are building stuff or have built stuff out of their comfort zone uh pulling together I just think that it's creating role models I love this whole you know you I thoroughly believe in that you can't be what you can't see and for me growing up watching The Apprentice it was portrayed that you had to kind of clamber over people to get where you want to whereas actually in reality those people will help lift you up and a rising tide lifts all ships and I think if you put people in situations where they're driving a rickshaw across india or on a desert island or out of their comfort zone in some way um you see the good in people come out and i just need to pitch it yeah although everyone says you know actually why tv like now you could just do it on social media very fair i think that i'm i think it's probably an age thing there's something quite old like cool about you know yeah i'm like we grew up with tv but like you like you say when i think of my kids like they're not fussed about tv no at all no it's so it's so the future maybe isn't there but yeah for just if we're doing it for you and for your thing just stream it yeah exactly that screen share um and then lastly before we do our money related questions if you could choose one female figure as a mentor past or present who would that be do you mind if i answer this a little bit differently because i thought so long i'd love to okay i pinch myself at who is in my phone book that i know who is a successful entrepreneur and you know all the names that I would fill out I'm lucky because I know most of them can you because because I'm nosy can you just give me a few uh so I know you had Vivian Wong on here um I know you've had Olivia Ferdy on here um you know I don't know if you've had them on here but the founders of Grenade, Go Henry um you know amazing amazing founders right uh Absolute Collagen like just the most fabulous people so I'm so fortunate with that what I would love to do is to go back in time and to tell one of those people or tell them all before they made it when they were having that self-doubt that they were going to go on and like change a category or change the world or like, you know, raise hundreds of millions or exit and be rich beyond their wildest dreams.

49:38So I know that's a bit of a weird one. No, no, no, I love it. I love it because you're so right. I think we often talk about, and you know, it's amazing. A lot of those women are mentors, right? And they're kind of, and they enjoy giving back and being able to help people and they're always the sort of first when I'm like I'm doing this thing can you come and inspire and tell your story because it's so incredible they're always the first to say yes um but you're right I think it's so interesting we always focus on like getting the advice once someone's made it of course because people want to follow in those footsteps but actually giving it goes back to what we talked about before giving the younger them the belief that they could yeah or just finding out like what was their mindset then because you can go back and tell the story once you've made it but do you really remember what it's like when you're thinking oh my god are we going to make payroll or is that is the customer yeah yeah so i think that i'd quite like to to do a time machine and do that yeah fascinating that'll be good yeah that'll be good when you got that time machine you let me know now it's time for three two one some financial questions powered by our friends at starling bank the bank on a mission to give founders confidence and control over their finances.

50:49I want to talk about some money-related questions now because I think it always seems to be the thing that we shy away from discussing. And I think, I don't know, again, if that's a British thing or if it's a female thing, we feel like we mustn't talk about numbers because it's not very polite. It can be a bit crass, but I like to. I think we need to have more of these conversations. So tell us your three essential tools in business, whether that's the app the person the software that you can't run your business without uh gosh um anything for me that makes it really easy for me to see in plain English like plain English plain numbers yes that simplifies finances so I'm not um the most financially literate person in the world I'm so fortunate I've got a great FD and my business partner is way better at that than me but what I do love is obviously I know that um sponsored by by Starling who are involved in Ideas Fest I love being able to see my money coming in and out real time like for someone who's obsessed about the detail like that that helps I like being able to set aside things for you know your your tax bill your vac bill yeah this things like that um anything that gives me an easy dashboard where I can like just look at it at a glance and um I'm definitely I've got a lot of work to do I'm lucky that I've got people around me who are who are far better than I am at seeing six months ahead seeing a year ahead the forecast yeah and I've got them who I can you know pick their brain and ask the stupid questions because I think that we all need to be able to create a safe space where we can ask the really idiotic questions because otherwise you're just not doing anyone any good by kind of fumbling along and pretending that you understand what an EBITDA is or you know what multiple means or what have you and we've all been in those situations where we've kind of gone I've got no idea what they're talking about no idea and also I think like you said for me and it sounds that you're similar to me that anything that simplifies it like I like to just look and know where I am I think when it comes to money particularly our own money it's made really complicated and I don't know if that's just because of my level of understanding which is probably fair but for me I think it should just read black and white like where are we what's to come how can I preserve that for when that's due like it for me I just really want it simple and clear as day and honest I think that because I'm naturally a sales marketing person you know I can project and come up with a plan and my forecast looks amazing because of course everyone's going to sign up of course everyone's going to sign up in the time frame that you want to with the amount that you want to but we all know that that doesn't quite happen and there's you know there's curves in the road and there's speed bumps and things go wrong so you've got to make sure that you're financially planning for tough days as well as griddles.

53:42Yeah absolutely that. What are your two daily checks two things that you sort of check without fail on your banking app? Balance and that bit of work. yeah uh what what's coming in you know i like the fact that you can you can kind of get a heads up of things that are going to land in a few days um the money in the air yeah absolutely yeah absolutely um and i kind of like being able to see if you can categorize your your spending you know where where is taking the majority of your budget and that's incredibly helpful as well yes so they're the things that you check every day and then lastly what's your number one budget habit so So the top tip for keeping costs low while scaling fast, because we touched on you having that year that it just sort of skyrocketed and that scale was quite big.

54:32But what would be your number one? Partnerships. So it's not always about a pound. I think that you can achieve an awful lot with, you know, what's known as a contra deal. So I'll scratch your back, you scratch mine. You know, there's a lot of value that you can trade without actually spending a penny. And every party is happy in that deal. Yes. we've been able to do some things that we would never have been able to write a check for but we've got something that that supplier wants they've got something that we want and we can come up with a great deal and especially if you can do that with you know with entrepreneurs of a similar mindset you can often get incredibly creative and have a lot of fun with it and so that has definitely been one of our hacks.

55:12I suppose that sort of helped you from the start if you look at the kind of subletting the festival and using their infrastructure and like yeah that's obviously been your yeah it's sort of a strength from from the jump 100 and you know often they'll turn into something commercial or you know bigger yeah um but i think that i love i love a deal you know i love that kind of like getting creative there's all there is always a deal to be done because what you're bringing someone else is going to want it's just finding the right player and the right partner for you right there's always somebody's always going to look on and be like I wish we had involvement in that yeah well hello you can absolutely so I don't have to write the check um now I want you to leave a tip every episode I ask our guests to leave one sort of tangible piece of advice to our listeners someone that's kind of listening to this episode right now and wants to do something in a similar vein and perhaps doesn't know how to get started if you was to leave a piece of advice that you wish you had that start what would that be um I'm going to lean back on networking community again but again doing it before you need it because when you are in a sticky situation or you're faced with a challenge and you then suddenly have to kind of meet someone you know build a relationship qualify are they sensible are they not and then have the call make the ask that's more that's harder than it has to be yes yes connect with people but not always just thinking what can they do for me connect with people that are a few steps behind you and work out how you can help them uh connect with people because you know you you have a common interest outside of work or a shared passion or you you know a shared cause or whatever it is grow your network it's so cheesy to say your network is your net net worth and it makes me kind of coil a bit and go but it's so true like your your community is absolutely everything when things are great you've got people to celebrate with and who will hype you up when things are bad you've got people who will pick you up and help you you've got people who will talk about you in rooms that you're not in yes it's all of that stuff and everyone can do it and you know it's not like it used to be old school that there's these uh exclusively just these private members clubs that you have to pay thousands of pounds to get in and it's a certain type of person from a certain college like there there are events that like ours but also other events do exist and other communities lean into them um give um give before you take um and that will see you very well you're so right because it needs to be like you need to be ready for those moments like you said before so they don't feel so transactional yeah so it is the giving and creating those relationship genuinely yeah because you you know you found the people that are your community but when you need something then you don't feel like you're trying to find someone out of the blue that maybe might not do you a favor because i guess what they don't really know you yeah exactly yeah 100 that's brilliant advice and then um lastly because i'm nosy and i talk about this um we i i'm such a foodie yeah so already i'm thinking in between my record breaks today what are we all going to have for lunch i'm that person I can't help it um so I we talk about typical lunch hour now I know one thing I've learned particularly since this podcast is that when you're an entrepreneur there's no typical lunch hour but yeah if I just started as your assistant and we were in the office today I know you've just moved office and I want to make you happy and order your favorite lunch so you don't have to sort of you don't think about anything I just know it's going to be sorted what am I ordering anything japanese or korean like that that anything but the truth is i am a black coffee girl and i will drink black coffee and then i at about three o 'clock i'll realize oh my goodness me i'm absolutely starving and then i'll reach for something unhealthy i'm trying to break that having me and i think where we're based now as an office there's so many gorgeous lovely eateries i have no excuse yes yes nothing japanese or korean so maybe i'll have to think outside of the box And then what are you grabbing at the minute if you've had that black coffee day and you want something a bit naughty?

59:24Oh, see, this is the worst thing at our old office. You'd come out and then the blue and yellow Greg sign was there. Steak bake. Yeah, steak bake or like a bacon sandwich or something. So I'm actually glad that that's not on the doorstep now because I won't be reaching for it. But yeah, more times than I'd like to admit. Something Asian inspired. That's the vibe. That's the vibe. But my favourite too. Yeah. Any sort of pan Asian is right up my street. Thank you so much. I'm so, so thankful that you've come and sat down with me. It's so good to kind of hear about your story and deep dive a little more.

59:59And what you're doing is so, is so incredible. And we'll share everything online of how to find Ideas Fest and everything else. Sounds good to me. All the events you do. I can't keep up with it. I love it. And honestly, when I came to your event and I know, I know events are not easy. I was blown away by the attention to detail. Like, honestly, every single bit. It was so perfect. It was brilliant. And I know a million things will have gone wrong behind the scenes that nobody else would have seen because that always happens. But I was like, wow. Oh, that means such a lot to me because you know yourself.

1:00:34They're the 2am things that I think, oh, have we thought about this? Or have we decaled that? It looked like you thought about everything. I did at 2am. I was like writing down notes. Oh, my goodness me. I love that. That's the biggest compliment coming from you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. don't forget to follow us on apple and spotify or wherever you get your podcast to make sure that you don't miss out because next time i'm going to be talking to another incredible lady who launched if like me you're a watcher then please follow us on youtube and don't forget to like and subscribe