SERIES 16: Episode 7 - Studio 10, Sammy Burt, 8Hours, Ram Dass, Alice Masters

0:04Alice Masters: Hello ladies and gentlemen welcome to Making the Cut.

0:07Davina McCall: Hi hello.

0:08Alice Masters: Hello, well done.

0:10Davina McCall: Thank you.

0:10Alice Masters: This is a northern version of Making the Cut. All the way from Lancashire.

0:16Ram Dass: Making the Cut.

0:18Alice Masters: Cut it making. How are you alright? I always think AI was invented by a northerner like AI. Oh my god. Aye. Shall we make AI? Aye. Aye, go on now, let's do that. No, because it's made in America and they don't get the northern swan.

0:39Davina McCall: So I thought about you today. Yeah. Because I saw my school friend Katie. And I talk about Katie a lot in lots of books. I've talked about her. I've recommended her on lots of podcasts. When I went on Giovanna Fletcher's podcast about birthing. because she's given me such sterling advice. I was godmother to one of her kids. She had four girls, but we were at school together. And I used to go round to her mum and dad's house all the time. And I was walking past it the other night. And I thought, God, I wonder if they still live there.

1:15Ram Dass: I bet they don't.

1:16Davina McCall: So I called Katie, my friend. We hadn't spoken to each other for years. You know, I've been ill and for whatever reason. And we'd seen each other in adulthood, but I hadn't seen her for a few years. And we just got chatting and we said, let's meet. And we met today. And you know how happy it makes me feel hearing all your stories of childhood. I just, her parents still live in this house. I burst into tears when I saw them both. Because they all look exactly the same. Their mum kept saying, you're exactly the same.

1:53Alice Masters: Oh, yeah, yeah, okay.

1:54Davina McCall: It's just so wholesome. Revisiting someone, it made me think how much I can't wait to go to Leyland with you.

2:04Alice Masters: Yeah, yeah, I'm looking forward to that.

2:06Davina McCall: Because it meant, I can't wait for you to meet Katie and for us to go and meet her parents. I'd love you to meet them.

2:13Alice Masters: Yeah, of course, great. It just, it was, it was breathtaking.

2:20Ram Dass: it was really it meant something really really special to me interesting isn't it I've been thinking about this a lot recently just for those that you can't see I've just taken my

2:32Alice Masters: glasses off in a dramatic way I'm gonna say something that I've been thinking a lot about AI and what it's gonna do to the world so a lot of people might not know this but AI has just reached a kind of tipping point. Elon Musk tweeted on X, I don't know if you call it anymore, posted on X we've got to the singularity and a lot of people didn't necessarily know what that meant but it meant a kind of tipping point in AI where it's gone over a particular, it's reached a certain point where AI has now started to self-generate so the new AI models that are coming out have been built on their own with very little human intervention.

3:18Alice Masters: So something's just happened this weekend. China has just released a new generating video model and it generated a scene in a movie where Brad Pitt is having a fight with Tom Cruise. And that has never happened. They've never been in a movie and had a fight. So this has been generated. This is terrifying. Yeah, it's very interesting. Well, no, I think what I'm trying to say to people is like, relax a little bit around this, you know. All it's trying to do is show what it's capable of. And at the moment, it looks like it's just robbing everything from us.

3:52Sammy Burt: Yes, it is.

3:53Alice Masters: Yeah, that's how it seems. But what I'm going to do, I think, you know, in my life is try and promote a slightly different angle to the outcome of all of this in a positive way. And hopefully that might propagate out. People don't need to be quite so scared.

4:09Ram Dass: Thank you.

4:10Alice Masters: Yeah, it's a pleasure.

4:11Michael Douglas: I feel like it's a service I should offer.

4:13Ram Dass: Yes, thank you.

4:13Michael Douglas: And I've not approached and come to this conclusion foolishly. I've thought about it a lot.

4:19Alice Masters: I mean, I use AI in my own business. And I've been thinking about, you know, the jobs it's going to take and all that kind of stuff. But the overall outcome could be the opposite of what we think it's going to be. The vast majority of people, I would say, a lot of people, and I was one of these, although I'm enjoying my job at the moment, is they actually don't particularly want to work. They have to work.

4:42Ram Dass: Can I stop you there?

4:43Alice Masters: yeah yeah work gives us purpose uh yes okay so um hold that thought for a second okay work gives us

4:51Michael Douglas: purpose in this current system that we are in because without it you're a bit stuck because the system doesn't reward you for not working but imagine a system that did reward you for other things that you did in your life the thing is that we're told from a very early age that

5:12Alice Masters: work will set you free you know the job is what you need a good job is a good life you can raise a family and get all the things you want because everything's set up in a system that without money

5:23Michael Douglas: you you're fucked basically so you convince yourself some way that work is you going to work is you and then the job defines who you are what you've got to try and think about is a completely different world with a completely different system of value that it doesn't matter what you do for a job now because AI can do most things it'll be able to be a lawyer and it'll be a doctor and what would you like to learn I'd like to learn how to be a doctor okay you don't need to do that anymore no I know but yeah so you can't do that what else would you like to do but that's what I mean yeah of course but you're limiting what would you like to learn maths yeah right great

6:07Ram Dass: you could do that yeah but I don't need to learn you could have loads of time to do it yeah but I

6:11Michael Douglas: don't yeah okay so you could learn to be a doctor you'd have loads of time to do it like the

6:16Davina McCall: possibilities is that I believe purpose you're given purpose when you're doing something for the greater good yes if you're just doing it for no reason at all because there's AI that can do it quicker and better than you.

6:30Michael Douglas: There's no purpose. No, I disagree. I think you would find a greater purpose in your life leaning into your actual nature, the thing that you were destined to be, destined to do. And I'm not talking about me and you necessarily.

6:45Ram Dass: No, because it's been taken away from you, the thing you've been destined to do. That's what you're led to believe.

6:50Alice Masters: My daughter is a dietician.

6:52Davina McCall: She absolutely loves it, gives her a deep purpose.

6:56Michael Douglas: you know lots of people they retire and they get dementia but that's because they've been potentially hoodwinked into thinking that their life was this thing this structure that they were in where they had to do a particular job so their whole life has been geared into doing this one thing so let's get away with all of that so you get rid of all of this current structure capitalism consumerism, all that. Everybody's got what they want and need and you're free. What do you do with your freedom?

7:31Ram Dass: Go nightclubbing and have sex.

7:34Michael Douglas: Great, you can do that. The thing is, everybody, no, no, no, no, no, a lot of people think that you're going to end up like those Wall-E characters where you're sat in a mobility scooter drinking a sugary drink, really fat, not doing anything.

7:47Ram Dass: But there's no

7:48Michael Douglas: reason to learn or educate okay so when we were all off during covid a lot of people

7:55Alice Masters: set up businesses set up different things found themselves doing stuff gardening painting

8:01Michael Douglas: like learning musical instruments doing all sorts of stuff nobody just sat around and did nothing

8:06Ram Dass: lots of people lots of people yeah alcohol dependency yes right so there's this idea that

8:13Michael Douglas: if you get too much freedom, you just become a slave to your vices. So I think for it in the initial period of like everybody losing their job, it's chaos. But eventually human beings will

8:24Alice Masters: realise that, okay, what do I want to do with all this freedom I've got, all this time I've got?

8:31Michael Douglas: You know, there's this idea that we only use like 5%, 5, 10 % of our brain power. Isn't it weird that why do we do that? Why don't we use 80, 90 % of it? I think it's because we haven't got the time we're not quite sure what human beings are capable of doing because we're too busy doing a bunch of stuff we've been told we have to do wouldn't that mean that everybody

8:51Ram Dass: that retires suddenly becomes amazing we don't yeah wouldn't that be great but we don't how would you know it's never happened before no but when we retire when everybody retires at 60 65

9:03Alice Masters: yeah 70 because that's it that's because you think your life is behind you that somehow it's over

9:08Davina McCall: no i think everybody thinks that their life is ahead of them but i mean i know like people who feel lost without their jobs or a purpose to get up in the morning and have a reason to go somewhere.

9:17Michael Douglas: Yeah. So what this would mean potentially is that you would look to yourself. You'd look to yourself and you'd say, why should I get up tomorrow? And you'd go on a journey of exploration of the self to work out what it is you really are, what it is you really want. It could be the beginning of a spiritual awakening a bit like the enlightenment but an awakening of the human spirit what it could do if it was given the opportunity but it's never been given the opportunity not in our lifetime and certainly not in a lifetime any time before and i am predicting i will be dead by this time that the progress of the human endeavor the human spirit what it could achieve with nothing but a true artistic nature of your own self the only the thing that you were destined to do could burst inside people and the greatest that you know like I meet people all the time you've said this I'm not a creative person I just don't believe that anybody is not creative it's just that they're not allowed because they're too busy stuck somewhere in in a system that they

10:27Davina McCall: believe is true yeah I mean I I don't agree with that because I believe that some people's brains work differently yeah so having done this test before my brain surgery there are two tests that kids do at school non-verbal reasoning and verbal reasoning and those are two different ways that

10:48Michael Douglas: people's brains work and you are either or yeah okay so you put that in a kid in the current system that has to go to school and sit down and do a certain set of tasks you get rid of all that

11:02Davina McCall: all that disappears school disappears oh yeah no i know yeah but what you're saying is you can you can be creative but my i'm creative i mean i could be creative with maths yeah yeah you can be

11:14Michael Douglas: I can be creative with all sorts of things.

11:15Davina McCall: I can be creative with language. Yeah, yeah. But I'm not like you in the way that you see things. Yeah. And we can see that as a couple.

11:25Michael Douglas: Yes, of course, but that is in this current structure. I'm talking about dissolving this entirely, you know.

11:31Davina McCall: I struggle. Yeah. You know, do you know what this is reminding me of? Yeah. This is reminding me of when I read Chasing the Screen with Johan Hari. Oh, yeah, yeah.

11:39Ram Dass: What's that?

11:39Davina McCall: It's about redefining how we look at addiction and how we treat addicts. And I became friends with Johan Hari because I had to keep calling him because I was like, I don't understand. It was challenging tough love with an addict. And in my experience with people who I loved who were addicts, who became addicts or who'd stayed addicts when I got clean, I used to you know say I'm going to help you I'm going to help you I'm going to help you but you've got to help yourself you know come on help yourself and then when they just never help themselves I go I can't help you anymore until you help yourself that's tough love

12:21Michael Douglas: yeah yeah

12:22Davina McCall: it's like I'm removing myself from your life until you want to help yourself and and he was saying no that's not the right that's not the right approach and when they did they looked at rats you know blah blah blah I feel a bit like that with you now Like I'm, it sounds great, but I'm not sure I'm going to be alive to enjoy this outlook. And I also, I'm not sure I believe it.

12:48Alice Masters: Yeah, okay.

12:49Davina McCall: But I hope you're right.

12:50Alice Masters: I have started to believe it in a big way.

12:53Davina McCall: I can see that.

12:54Alice Masters: Yeah, yeah. I'm having difficulty convincing people because I haven't got the language right yet. I haven't got my script right yet. But over the next couple of months, I'm going to develop it.

13:03Michael Douglas: Can I just say something?

13:04Ram Dass: I've just seen a prophecy.

13:06Michael Douglas: Oh, yeah. That in 2057, you're going to be like Ram Dass.

13:17Alice Masters: Yeah, well, great. I've got to recommend Ram Dass today.

13:19Ram Dass: There's going to be a recording of this. Somebody's going to have gone on to the podcast and they've going to have found this recording. AI will have found this recording and gone. Michael Douglas. Yeah.

13:37Ram Dass: and prophesied this in 2025.

13:41Alice Masters: Yeah, good.

13:42Michael Douglas: I'll just finish off on one thing, which is that the system that we live in doesn't seem to work very well. The NHS doesn't seem to be sufficient. It's not helping people quickly enough. The education system, to me, seems poor. The university system is completely broken. It is. Politics seems pretty terrible. It doesn't really matter who's in power. Nobody's happy. and the whole system of life doesn't seem to be very good, very fair, and there's lots of humour and suffering, and there's an enormous amount of mental health problems. But when you present a completely alternative system that could give you some freedom, nobody wants it.

14:19Michael Douglas: I can't talk to anybody about this particularly, because everybody says, no, no, no, what are people going to do? They won't work with their purpose and all the rest of it. And what I'm trying to say to people is there's an alternative world out there, That's a completely alternative life. It could be way better than this, but you have to let go of this one. And most people, it seems at the moment, are not willing to do that.

14:39Ram Dass: Oh, if it was, if you could guarantee.

14:41Michael Douglas: Yeah, yeah, yeah, there are no guarantees, sadly. But if you said to people, you have to believe it for it to happen. You know, like, you have to say it into existence.

14:54Ram Dass: Yeah, but now you're being a dictator.

14:56Michael Douglas: No, no, no, because I'm offering you freedom, not control. The dictator wants to control people. I'm saying you could be free.

15:02Davina McCall: The dictator is telling, you are telling me what I've got to do. You're telling me I've got to believe it. You've got to say it and believe it.

15:07Michael Douglas: Yeah, like you've got to say.

15:08Davina McCall: That is dictatorship.

15:09Michael Douglas: But hang on a sec. What I'm saying is you have to say that you get yourself in all its glory and all its love and you get to do what you want and be who you want, who you really want. Like if you search yourself, that's the freedom. There's nothing dictatorial about that. it's a sense of do you want it all or would you rather stay here in this broken system

15:32Ram Dass: no I want it all right or we could have it all but are you sure

15:37Alice Masters: potentially if everybody agrees so

15:40Ram Dass: but you know now it's saying that everybody's got to agree which is telling us what to do

15:44Michael Douglas: there's a brilliant quote on my phone here which we've probably talked about before and it says the ultimate hidden truth of the world is that it's something we make and we could just as easily make differently and when I heard that I fell off my chair because I was like of course you're like you're the creator of your own life and we have all

16:00Ram Dass: collectively created this one yeah I've always agreed with that we could be free to create a

16:06Michael Douglas: completely different one like properly free to create a different one and that leave it there if you like I'm going to put that out there and just allow it to like how are you going to pay for like your home I haven't quite worked that bit out yet but all of the big AI people who are at the kind of top of the hierarchy of the moment have all said independently of each other that money will become irrelevant.

16:32Ram Dass: But what does that mean?

16:34Michael Douglas: It means that we'll all have everything we want.

16:40So you won't want what another

16:42Michael Douglas: person's got because you've got everything you want. So the type of hierarchy, if you've got more than me and I'm resentful of that, will disappear. Jealousy could disappear and resentment and the desire of somebody else's stuff, the desire of any stuff. If you think about it enough, if anybody can be bothered to, it has a profound effect on the human experience that if you could let go, which is what all the spiritual teachers have been talking about for years, if you could just let go of the idea of your life and drop into the reality of who you really are as an individual spirit like uh so would you just stop working are you going to stop working well it depends what you define as work but as a job doing some work would be doing something you don't want to do to get something you do want to do so in that sense yeah but it wouldn't stop doing stuff but just do stuff that would be in my nature that would be completely aligned to who I was, my genes, dancing, playing the piano, singing, mucking about, learning to breakdance.

17:52Michael Douglas: The stuff I really love, actually just being able to do the stuff that your conscience was like, go on, do that, try that, have a go at that. Most of the time I'm like, I'd love to do that, but I haven't got the fucking time. It's like, now you've got the time.

18:05Ram Dass: I just find, do you know, all my life, I've worried about money.

18:11Michael Douglas: Yeah, there you go. And it's controlled you, that.

18:13Ram Dass: Yeah.

18:14Michael Douglas: Right. Imagine you didn't have that control. What would you be like? I don't know. But we could find out. It could be the greatest version of you. And you're already great, by the way. It could be the greatest version of you that existed that you didn't know because you couldn't access it. I've got great optimism. Thank you for having optimism.

18:36Ram Dass: I need it.

18:36Michael Douglas: Somebody said yesterday, it's better to be optimistic and it not work out than to be pessimistic and it work out.

18:44Alice Masters: Quite good, isn't it?

18:44Ram Dass: That's really... Who said that? I don't know.

18:47Michael Douglas: I'm sorry. Instagram. Yeah, yeah.

18:48Ram Dass: That's really good. Isn't it?

18:49Michael Douglas: So I'm an optimist. I'm going to be an optimist. Okay. And it might not work out.

18:53Ram Dass: I might try and be an optimist then as well with you.

18:55Michael Douglas: But it might not work out. But at least between now and then, we get to be optimistic.

18:59Ram Dass: Okay.

18:59Michael Douglas: Yeah?

19:00Ram Dass: Okay. I'm going to work on that.

19:01Michael Douglas: I'm going to gift that phrase to everybody. I'm going to work on that. Yeah, good.

19:05Ram Dass: Okay. Wow, that was big.

19:06Michael Douglas: You like that?

19:07Ram Dass: Yeah.

19:09Davina McCall: I'm going to talk about something.

19:11Alice Masters: Okie dokie.

19:12Davina McCall: I'm going to talk about Studio 10. Now, this is a makeup brand. And it was started by a woman called Grace Fodor. And I wanted to talk to you about this specifically as well, because she started it a long time ago. Like in 2020, even 2019, something like that. so I was just thinking that this brand has only come to my attention now. Now, yeah. And I feel like...

19:43Alice Masters: What have you been doing?

19:44Davina McCall: Well, I feel a bit like that because Studio 10 is a makeup brand for women as they age.

19:51Alice Masters: Yeah.

19:52Davina McCall: They never use the word wrinkle.

19:55Alice Masters: Okay, good.

19:57Davina McCall: I like that. She wants every woman as they age to look and feel their most beautiful and confident versions of themselves. Beauty doesn't just belong to youth, it's age. I totally agree. I want to celebrate my age, wear it proudly, feel truly confident, be represented in advertising by the brands trying to talk to us and as for products they need to be designed with me in mind. 74 % of us feel that many products and services don't reflect our needs i mean that's me pro age beauty yeah you know i love all of these ideas and um developed 100 by women for women and studio 10 i'm telling you they are so brilliant the products that i so far have found by studio 10 have blown my mind so there's there's a thing called the everyday set which I would highly recommend getting and it's got a um primer which is like what you put on before you put on your foundation which basically kind of makes your skin smooth to put something on top and then it's got um a like what would you call that a capture a cartridge a cartridge yeah a cartridge with some um foundation in it yeah um and it's spf 30 which I think is really good because obviously I'm into that.

21:23Davina McCall: You don't need a concealer with this cartridge. It's got like a dewy effect, you know, like everybody wants their dewy.

21:30Alice Masters: Yeah.

21:30Davina McCall: Right? Yeah, yeah. It's very natural. It's very fine. So when you're a bit older, you really don't want sort of thick clunky, but it has got medium coverage, like medium to full coverage, which means that you can kind of hide blemishes and things like that. and it's um it's like a sort of they're calling it skincare hybrid but you know this stuff i wear this quite a lot you've seen me put that on the red the pink kind of like a cheek blush you can wear the cheek blush on its own without any makeup and it just gives you this kind of again a dewy a cheek cheeky dewy look now this everyday set it's got literally 66 reviews five star reviews all the way at the moment they've got a deal on and you can get all of that for 88 quid but i'm telling you with the primer and the blush you hardly need any it's like one pump yeah and it and it's it gives you full coverage they've got another brilliant um set called ready in five they've got an iconic um red lip set oh hello um they've got a modern muse eye set and they've got interestingly she's not a makeup artist she's a businesswoman yeah but she's she's lovely yeah grace photos she's got a very nice they've got like candles called smoking hot which i really like they've got really nice makeup boxes but i'm telling you their makeup is really really good for slightly i want to say i want to say not older well age age ageful age gorgeously what i don't know how yeah you know what i'm trying to say mature but all of its really nice packaging is very good quality um it's a mascara is about 28 quid a lipstick's about 25 quid um the brushes are really nice the lip glosses are great and they've got lots of slight price reductions online now.

23:39Davina McCall: But Studio 10 is chamayes.

23:43Alice Masters: Yeah, good. There's something I just noticed.

23:44Davina McCall: Oh, by the way, studio10beauty.com.

23:47Alice Masters: And then there's something I just noticed there, and I'm seeing this more and more, and you know how sometimes you latch onto an idea and then you see lots of things happening that feed into the idea?

23:57Michael Douglas: Yes.

23:58Alice Masters: You could call it confirmation bias. Yes, yes, yes.

24:01Michael Douglas: So I've landed on this idea through talking about this AI thing, really, that what's becoming more and more important and people aren't necessarily consciously aware of this, although some people are, is that people are starting to realise more and more that investing in

24:16Alice Masters: the self is the greatest thing on earth. Like you becoming the best version of you is the best thing that could happen to you. and this website has just picked up on that

24:26Michael Douglas: or it said,

24:27Alice Masters: not only about ageing,

24:28Michael Douglas: let's not talk about your wrinkles, let's talk about how beautiful you are. I'm seeing this more and more everywhere and it's manifesting itself in my own business but I'm getting more and more connected to lots of other businesses

24:37Davina McCall: that are leaning towards that. Because you're leaning towards it and you're seeing other businesses are because I'm pretty sure she's always been like this. Yeah, okay. She's been around for five years but I think especially for midlife people, you've got to, you know, you've got nothing else. You can't go backwards. Yeah. You can only go forwards and learn to love yourself. So you may as well be the best version that you can of you.

25:01Alice Masters: But it's interesting we're only discovering this in our late 40s and 50s.

25:04Davina McCall: Yes, but this is why this is the best time of our lives. Yeah. Because this is when we finally come to find peace in ourselves with who we are.

25:14Michael Douglas: But I think and I hope as a result of all the things that are happening in the world that that age will drop and people will discover themselves at a much younger age and that will make the world a much better place for everybody it'll be more love because people will love themselves more

25:31Ram Dass: yes and that's the answer to everything and there won't be anger and there won't be I mean if there is

25:36Davina McCall: if money doesn't mean anything anymore I can't imagine there being any wars

25:40Alice Masters: I know because the value of stuff disappears

25:42Davina McCall: and also people won't be there'll be no territorial pissing or trying to own everything because there will be no financial value in it.

25:49Alice Masters: And all the value will be in love.

25:51Davina McCall: Yeah. Okay, I'm coming. I'm coming. Yes!

26:00Michael Douglas: On this subject, Sammy Bird sent us her book, What is a Grown-Up Anyway? And this feeds into this, really. Sammy has got a couple of kids

26:08Alice Masters: and she's written a book about what it is to be a grown-up. And she sent us a couple of copies. I was having a quick frick through of it. And there's lots of funny stories and anecdotes in here.

26:17Michael Douglas: About what it is to get older and what it means to be a grown-up. Something about losing the child in you. That's very sad. And I think what we've discovered is our little child in us coming out again. And we're leaning into more loving, fun things. We're much more creative. We're a lot freer than I ever thought I would be at this age. Yeah, me too. But she'd written a bit about friendships in here and about her going out with mates or whatever.

26:44Alice Masters: So let me just read this because I thought it was quite funny.

26:45Davina McCall: This is quite funny after today for me.

26:47Alice Masters: Yeah, OK. And it says, now I do have friends who I could text and say, hey, shall we find a date for dinner or similar?

26:53Michael Douglas: But I will always leave it open enough that they should they want to back away that they can do without awkwardness on anyone's part. I always give them a way to get out of it, a way to say no, aside from my low scores on the coolometer. This also stems from belief that unless I am a value to someone else in some way, then others wouldn't want to choose to be around me. so I think that's quite interesting is that the more you value yourself the easier it gets I think to just make dates to see people and friends because you know you're valuable to them yes because you value yourself yes like why wouldn't somebody want to come out yes I guess I just don't really know how to hang out and the suggestion of it can fill me with dread so I think this is quite funny so it says give me a job however I'm away so come over and help me with my website I'm in pop round and let's talk about what's bothering me yeah no worries swing by and borrow an onion an iron or a bottle of wine sorted hang out um for what like like you need to have something to do yeah but um i hadn't really acknowledged this at all but i will often say to cookie or or somebody you just come out and hang out and he goes yeah sure and that's it like there is no agenda oh i see yeah um and he comes around i'll go like what should we do and he'll be like i don't know should we get something to eat and I'm like yeah great we need to eat you know there's this kind of freedom to the night because there is no expectation on it um but anyway I thought that was really good um so well done uh Sammy um I'll have another little read through this but it's available now and it's called what is a grown-up anyway by Sammy Burt and thanks so much for sending us

28:27Ram Dass: a couple of signed copies look at that that's so nice all right isn't it thank you Sammy and well

28:31Michael Douglas: done and congratulations on getting it published and it's not an easy thing to do I'd like to talk

28:37Davina McCall: about something that fat Tony turned me on to. I'm not very good at sleeping. Yeah, okay. In midlife, I am really struggling to sleep. And it's, you know, I was talking to Katie, my friend today, and we were talking that it's completely normal for us to wake up at least two or three times a night.

28:57Alice Masters: Yeah, yeah.

28:57Davina McCall: And that's bad. Yeah, you know, and everybody talks about the fact that sleep is so important and we need we need it and um and yet here I am still struggling and when we went to no when I came out of my brain surgery yeah and a couple of times when we've gone to America we've gone to get melatonin yeah and when I came out of brain surgery that was the only thing that I took to help me sleep but actually I was sleeping like a log after that I was talking to Tony about it and I was saying you know I'm just really struggling and he was like listen don't take melatonin it messes up with your circadian rhythm yeah take um this thing i've discovered called eight hours now it's not prescription it's not um got any kind of drugs in it obviously we all know that lactone is clean um it's a natural full spectrum sleep support recovery formula and it's called eight hours now it can you can do subscribe and save um so if you did a six months subscription you would pay 96 pence a day oh oh okay that's all right isn't it yeah yeah which i think is pretty good for a good night's sleep yeah i mean honestly and then what is really nice about it um it is um six natural ingredients optimizing your nights so and it's this is another nice way of kind of thinking about it so you can optimize your day yeah you know so you can get the most out of your day and since my operation my my brain surgery i have realized how vital sleep is because i never really noticed the impact that sleep had on my brain if i didn't get it i just kind of would muddle through yeah yeah but since the operation i don't sleep i i'm not firing on all cylinders the next day at all and i need like a quick half an hour nap in the day so it's got magnesium biglycinate in it yep which is that's the one that you want magnesium glycinate is the is the daddy that's the bedtime one it's got l-theanine in it which is the thing that i take every morning okay and it's already got it in it so that means that i don't need to take that it's got apigenin in which i've got no idea what that means myo-inocytol tart cherry, I like the sound of that and bioparine now these are all natural things natural ingredients and two capsules with water 30-45 minutes before desired bedtime I've been using it once a day, every day and it's had 339 reviews and it's like 4.74 to 5 and they're very very very good reviews um and honestly you you i think what you notice is a better deep sleep and that's what i need and also the other thing that i've noticed is that when i wake up which i do do one or two times a night um i do go straight back to sleep again okay well i don't lie there kind of thinking so i was talking to russell cain about this because

32:08Alice Masters: we were all hanging out recently and I said oh yeah he said how do you sleep and I said yeah not so bad I'll take melatonin he said I could be wrong about this so just be careful I'll be careful but he said oh it's only got a half-life of three hours melatonin so it'll help you get sleep but it won't keep you asleep right yeah and my experience of it makes sense that I can fall asleep but I'll often wake up yeah so the melatonin kicks in and it's like you can sleep now it gets

32:37Davina McCall: you to sleep because it makes you believe that it's night time is that what it is yeah it tricks your brain it's so that's why it's messing about with your circadian rhythm because i listened to

32:49Alice Masters: radio 4 documentary about how to get to sleep and they'd said the trick with melatonin was that you take it at the same time every night and you go to bed at the same time every night and then you don't you stop taking it and what you've done is created a habit yeah you know that's a clever idea yeah it's quite nice isn't it but we often go to bed at different times and take it at different times and that's probably and that's probably what disrupts it but if you got into a rhythm with it then you could use yourself out of it well I'm going to try and do that with this yeah good you've to give me some of this and I've tried it and I slept well

33:18Ram Dass: eight hyphen hours.com very good um thank you fat tony uh on this subject I'm going to recommend

33:24Alice Masters: a little instagram post that I saw this week now I struggle to meditate like I try and meditate I'm just like, yes, it's not fucking happening.

33:31Ram Dass: I was just talking to Katie about that today. Ah, okay. She was saying exactly the same thing.

33:38Alice Masters: I try, but it's just... So, you know, I read David Nutt's book about psychedelics and all the rest of it. The interesting thing about psychedelics, it seems, is that it quietens your mind. And you'd say, well, what's a quiet mind? And a quiet mind is one that's got less thoughts in it.

33:56Ram Dass: Sorry, just asking a quick question. When you're saying psychedelics, what are you talking about?

34:00Alice Masters: I'm probably talking about magic mushrooms, psilocybin mushrooms, and LSD and stuff like that, stuff that hasn't affected us.

34:08Ram Dass: But doesn't, sorry, just being devil's advocate again, doesn't that just send you off into a trip which doesn't quieten your mind at all? It blows your mind.

34:15Michael Douglas: Okay, so the trip is a result of a quiet mind. Oh. Yeah, it's quite mad, isn't it? So if you were to take psychedelic drugs and you scanned your brain in an MRI machine, the activity goes down. It doesn't go up.

34:31Ram Dass: Really?

34:31Michael Douglas: Yeah, yeah. So the psychedelics quiet your mind so then the mind can be activated.

34:39Ram Dass: Oh, is that what it does? Yeah, yeah.

34:41Michael Douglas: So you're seeing all the stuff you don't currently see because your mind's too busy.

34:47Ram Dass: That's blown my mind. Yeah, right. Is that true?

34:51Alice Masters: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Brain activity goes down. But why did I not know that?

34:55Ram Dass: Wow, that's amazing. That's so interesting.

34:59Michael Douglas: A lot of people say, oh, I don't need to take psychedelic drugs because I meditate. You get to the same state. And you do it by shutting out the voices, shutting down the noise. That's very difficult. Yeah, it is very difficult. So anyway, I'm on Instagram, you know, pottering about over the weekend.

35:13Alice Masters: And up pops Ram Dass. I followed the Ram Dass page. Can I just say, for anybody listening, we've got to recommend.

35:21Davina McCall: I'm not sure if we've recommended his page before. No, we've certainly recommended his music And please can we please say what his page is

35:28Ram Dass: Because it's not just Ram Dass

35:30Alice Masters: So it's Baba Ram Dass

35:32Ram Dass: It's Baba Ram Dass And it's double S B-A-B-A-R-A-M-D-A-S-S

35:39Davina McCall: And it's a really, really nice page

35:42Alice Masters: So this is a post that was on the 2nd of February So you can go through Baba Ram Dass And find he's got a yellow cardigan on And he's got a little blue shirt And he's teaching people in the room how to meditate So I'll play you a little bit of it, you know. I start in and my instruction from my teacher is follow the breath, follow the rising and the falling.

36:01Sammy Burt: And when it rises, notice it rising and when it follows, notice it falling. So I start rising, falling.

36:10Michael Douglas: So he's just following the breath.

36:11Sammy Burt: Rising, rising and falling. Rising, falling. The first thing that my mind says is this is never going to work. now what happened was you see my mind just said my mind came up with a thought and said think of me this is never going to work and if you buy into that thought you say you're right this is going

36:32Ram Dass: well thank you very much for the teaching and you're off if however you just agreed that for

36:38Sammy Burt: 20 minutes you follow the instruction of the teacher and he says every time a thought arises notice that it has arisen allow it and then very gently return your awareness back to the rising and falling so you say okay fine see you later and you go back to rising falling and then a thought comes in for this i got a phd

37:02Alice Masters: so anyway this goes on for about a minute or two but it was absolutely brilliant oh yeah you've already liked it um this goes on for a minute I sent I sent it to you actually that's probably

37:13Ram Dass: probably why but um no because I've I've you follow it as well all day like every day so I've

37:18Michael Douglas: thought oh okay it's the first time it's just been explained in such layman's terms that I got it so you know I've been doing this going to bed at night because I realize I can't go to sleep because I can't stop my thoughts so I thought do the babarandas technique of just imagining all the air going into my lungs and into the bronchioli out into the body and then the carbon dioxide coming out of my mouth so I do that fall asleep really yeah and I've noticed the thought comes in and the thought comes in it's like tomorrow morning you should probably go to the gym I'm like acknowledge the thought go back to the lungs go back to the thought you know and just start to push the thoughts away and it's been tying into the book I read letting go which I recommended the previous ones which is the feeling comes you acknowledge the feeling then you let it go so I'm like okay we're now doing this with feelings and thoughts and getting very very close a very sense of peace and then I fall asleep so I've only been doing this for two or three nights you know so it's early days but um it's been the best post I've seen about meditation that isn't like oh you know listen to this music you have to adopt these principles you know blah blah blah it was just a very simple idea just go back to the breath go back to that that's it i've talked about how i go to sleep haven't i on here i think so you have toes and i concentrate on each part of my body

38:40Davina McCall: and then send that part of my body to sleep yeah and then but i i never i mean i very very rarely

38:47Ram Dass: think about getting to my chest i'm got i'm asleep by then well done yeah it's quite interesting Yeah, you showed me that. It's what the army used to do in the trenches. Yeah, that's right, yeah.

38:58Alice Masters: Okay, let's do a couple of shout-outs then before we wrap up. I did want to say this, though. It's called Alice Master's Art. That is a painting, by the way. Wow! Isn't it amazing?

39:10Davina McCall: Oh, my God, that is so good!

39:13Alice Masters: She does glitter balls. Wait, shall I show you another? Shut up, yes. I'm going to show you another. Wait till you see this one.

39:17Davina McCall: Oh! Oh, my God! Wait, can we...

39:20Alice Masters: That's a painting.

39:21Davina McCall: Wait, what?

39:22Alice Masters: Yeah, right? No! Here's the glitter ball. Watch this. What? Yeah, yeah. So that's a painting. It's on a flat piece. Wait till you see the end. What the?

39:29Michael Douglas: Look at it. It's amazing, isn't it? Look at that. That's a painting. It's not mirror ball.

39:35Ram Dass: Oh, my God.

39:37Michael Douglas: So good. Well done. So Alice Masters Art. Oh, my God. How did you find her?

39:42Davina McCall: She's amazing. It just popped up.

39:43Michael Douglas: It's absolutely brilliant, isn't it?

39:44Davina McCall: I love the fact that you get sent glitter ball stuff. Well done.

39:46Alice Masters: Yeah, well, that's on the making the cup page.

39:48Davina McCall: You're clearly doing something right. so i um found an artist and uh i really liked her work and she was she did all the artwork for an album for a dj called seinfeld oh yeah and um when i saw it i cried um because it made me think of my sister and and this piece of artwork from that she did for this album it's

40:25Michael Douglas: like life and death and I was imagining that that was me and that was Caroline

40:34Ram Dass: we were the same yeah mirroring each other yeah but we can't quite touch each So I was like, oh my God. So I then went, I deep dived into the artist and sent her a message. And she got back to me and said that we're going to talk tomorrow about trying to come up with something that's a bit more, even more kind of, yes. Because obviously I can't copy that, that Seinfeld's imagery and I don't want to copy that. but that I would love to have something similar.

41:14Alice Masters: Yeah.

41:15Ram Dass: Anyway, I'm very excited about it.

41:17Alice Masters: This is London N. Lucy. It says, Morning all, I wanted to thank Davina. They say never meet your heroes, however last night didn't disappoint. Davina was a great genuine off-screen as she is on screen. I was the 50-year-old that thanked her in the queue for the loo and received the biggest hug in return. Was this a predicate? Yes. Yeah, Davina.

41:38Ram Dass: was this from last night?

41:40Alice Masters: Yeah, Saturday.

41:41Ram Dass: Oh yes, Fredegrand, yeah.

41:44Alice Masters: And it said, Davina has taught me to wear what I want although last night's outfit was questionable. Deep dive into some of the most interesting conversations which are nourishing and exiting. It must be exciting and lastly party hard. I am now at my begin again moment after selling our business back in June. Congratulations. Our paths have crossed over many decades. I started my career producing fashion shows and would book model.

42:08Ram Dass: Oh wow, my God, that's mega.

42:10Alice Masters: Being pregnant at the same time at Club 55 in Saint-Tropez. Oh my God. We've been at many shows, parties and gigs at the same time, including Glassdoor 25. Oh my God. I never wanted to disturb and say hi. Last night felt okay to come and say hi. It was a truly wonderful moment for me. Oh Lucy, God, that's mega. Thank you. How a fantastic girl.

42:26Davina McCall: I'm so pleased you messaged me to give me the full.

42:29Alice Masters: Yeah, that's good, isn't it?

42:30Davina McCall: Yeah, the full background. That was so great.

42:33Alice Masters: love having you back each week this is Charlie Pops 224 I have a great recommendation for you both which I think you'll love it's a book called You Know by Alice Christ I read this out last week yeah yeah yeah okay so let's go to general see what we've got in there okay so hi Davina and Michael I know you've talked about this show before but season 3 has just come out and as Davina would say it's mega there's not that many feel good shows anymore this one just hits every feel i can't wait to hear um you talk about it because you will laugh and cry and scream and cry and laugh again best show ever sending love and light from toronto sadie so it must be this and i oh it's the um shrinking yes with harrison yes yeah Yeah, that's all the little clip she's put on here.

43:26What are you in for?

43:29Sammy Burt: Parkinson's. You?

43:30Alice Masters: Just haircut.

43:34Sammy Burt: Is there more of a laugh than that? Sorry. I'm just going through it today. You look good. Your voice is firm. Makes you sound wise. Yeah, I am quite wise. How's your balance? Not bad.

43:46Alice Masters: It's stupid exercise. It's got a long pause, but this is Michael J. Fox and Harrison Ford in the latest episode of Shrinking. Shrinking is really, really good. Brilliant. Okay, we've been on for quite a while.

43:59Davina McCall: Can I quickly, quickly say something to anybody that hasn't seen it?

44:02Alice Masters: Yeah.

44:02Davina McCall: That I posted something on Making the Cut podcast because we recommended the sweatshirt from Panic the Mother. And I forgot to talk about something when we talked about it that was so fucking genius. so in the packaging this is the sweatshirt that looked like a tour sweatshirt and it had looked like it had dates and gigs on the back but it wasn't gigs it was in fact telephone numbers for mental health um helplines and the nhs helplines and all of those kind of things but with the packaging came a little see-through bag and it had lots of little miniature ducks in it and i was like I don't understand why are all these ducks here so I called Tony and I went she sent her like a little bag of little mini ducks I don't understand and he went yeah it's it's so you can get all your

44:56Ram Dass: ducks in a row it's so oh my god it's so good it's such a love mark that like I feel like it's so

45:05Alice Masters: funny you remember in um we back not on Coronation Street in Hilda and Stan Ogden's house yes they had these ceramic ducts on the wall like what people have in the 60s and 70s yes we should

45:17Ram Dass: get some of those and put them in a row on the wall yes that's a brilliant idea great i've had a brilliant idea everybody oh just let everybody know there is a third off all tools and brushes

45:31Alice Masters: and stuff at ndlondon.com um for the rest of this month so if you need a hair dryer or some curling irons or straightening irons or whatever it is there is a third off we were slightly forced into a sale because boots decided to discount everything and when they do that we have to do that um so fill your boots this probably we probably won't have another sale till the summer so if you are looking to get something now would be the time to get it the numbers aren't in the sale by the way but um i think there is some bundles that you get discounts on them but if you're looking for a hair tool or a brush mdlawner.com it's great to speak to all ladies and gentlemen.

46:08Alice Masters: We love you. Have a lovely weekend or dog walk, wherever it should be. I love you.