Aml Ameen

0:00Mo Gilligan: Hey, what's happening people? My name is Mo Gilligan and this is the Beginning, Middle and End podcast. Now this is where I'm going to be asking some of my favourite people about how they started, where they are now and the legacy they want to leave. This week's guest is a seriously talented actor, people. Yes, he's also a writer and a director. Now he burst onto our screens, starring in the iconic film Kiddohood. From that success, he then appeared as a series regular in The Bill. Now, with that success, he then flew to the other side of the pond in Hollywood and starred alongside Oprah Winfrey.

0:38Mo Gilligan: That is right, people. Some of his friends go by the name of Cuba Gooding Jr. and Prince. But asides from that, he's also setting up his own successes of setting up his own drama school and keeping the legacy going on. Please welcome to the podcast, Amel Amin. But how long you here for? Bro, I was here for shooting for about, what, four or five months? So you're here for work? That's it. Is it? Yeah. Okay. Have we seen each other since I've been here? No, we haven't. Because the last time I see you was in LA. Yes. Soho. Soho House. That is the black link up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The West Hollywood one.

1:18And if you want to get grimy, go downtown. Downtown. My car got smashed twice when I went downtown. And I know I don't even go down there anymore.

1:26Mo Gilligan: Well, someone smashed into the car. Yeah, they smashed open it. Really? You know Skid Row's like mad as hell. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The poverty's real out there, man. How do you find it when you kind of come back? Like, do you find it when you come back, like, you're like, okay, wow, like the UK looks like this now? Because do you know what it is? Like, I'll go to my mum's, yeah, and I'll drive around certain parts of my mum's and I'm like, rah, when did they build this? You're very slick. You started interviewing. Do you know what I mean? this is what we do bro this is how we do I'm professional bro very good brother I was like hold on because your tone slightly shifted a little bit I was like oh Addy went you laid back a bit got your pose right I was like big up bro you gotta be professional bro can't go into retail and just fold the t-shirt straight away bro you gotta say walk away to some of the stuff and then a customer comes in hey how you doing you alright you were smooth with it yeah man but how do I feel about coming back to London I feel like like very proud man very proud like just for me like I've left 2009-10 when I come back it's not like the place has changed but like we have changed and black British culture has shifted yeah yeah of course we're international or people that I would go on about like even musically because you know music's always the first point of this is my gigs right so I would go yeah yeah yeah back in 2009 10 11 and then these people become like global sensations yeah I mean so So I feel really proud.

2:56And also, the thing that's happened a lot is like knowing how much moments in my career have meant to people. I feel like my notoriety or fame is very pocketed in different things. It's like some people don't know me at all. Some people know me from American work. And then other people's like the beginning, like kiddardhood and Bill. And, you know, when I go about London, I think because I'm not here very often, it's like, was that culture class recently? The Caribbean thing in Brixton or the South?

3:32Mo Gilligan: Oh, Summer Splash? That's it. Yeah, yeah. And like just meeting the people, man. Just like, and hearing stuff I don't hear all the time. Yeah. Because I live like in another place and kind of like almost like a really, really normal life. Yeah, of course. In another place, right? just like the admissions of what you mean to people and it sounded strange to my head but they're giving context to my brain that it's been like 20 years. Yeah man. Do you get what I'm saying? Yeah yeah yeah of course. Especially turning 40 now I'm like I've got 20 years. You don't look 40 though bro. Thank you bro. I swear to you.

4:08May I get tipped that right? Yes yeah yeah yeah. But I'm saying like to have context 20 years of a of a career being and you were an adult like 20 years ago I was an adult and so you know the admissions of people and what I've meant to people, that's very heartwarming. A guy came up to me, literally that same thing, and he was like,

4:28Mo Gilligan: yo, bro. I said, what's going on? I said, brother, I've been made to meet you. No, it's my, this guy's like a big, big bitching grown man. He's like, bro, you saved my life. I was like, bro, allow it. What do you mean? He goes, yo, the journey, I was on, I was on something else and I was meant to get into something else because of how I grew up. He's talking about a gang. It's a grown man. Because just seeing you and that movement and you went to the States, not a mad happened, but man became like a nurse. And I went to college and I was like, it just struck me. It struck me the impact of one's life.

5:04You know what I mean? So yeah, I'm still figuring that out.

5:07Mo Gilligan: Like, you know what I mean? Because I feel like there's so much more to, I would like to do. But yeah, it's in terms of how I feel quite moved a lot actually. and you know one one part a part of it and one part not yeah yeah i mean yeah how do you look back at you know your upbringing here because you left in 2009 2010 and i think of what london was like then even if i think of like let's say the phone was a blackberry and you know people top of the charts might have been like your jesse jays and tiny tempers and funky house was the sound we were speaking just before where even your dad put in on shows you had these small pockets of shows that people would perform at, like myself, I'd go down and do some comedy, you mentioned Fuse as well and you left at a time where you've probably been coming back and forth within that time as well but how much do you look at that time to your upbringing, because you're from North West London right?

6:12I'm kind of a mutt man So I'm kind of like family settled in Barnet, but we were from like...

6:17Mo Gilligan: That's North, North London. That's North, North. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I went to school in West London. I went to Barberspeak Stage School. Yeah. And then when I went to college, Barnet College, all of my friends were from Witchmore Hill, Edmonton, Tottenham. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Families from Tottenham. I grew up in Hackney for a time. My dad's like a big community leader in Hackney. So I'm a bit of a mutt. Yeah. But would you say your roots are then more North then? like sways to north, northwest, north London. Yeah, I think it's north, northwest. But when I go to like, I literally was shooting a show recently where we were literally standing in a place called Arcola Street, right?

6:56And my dad had a big organization there called the African Caribbean Development Foundation for 20 years of my life, you know, that served the community. And so, I would go there every weekend. Do you get what I'm saying? So, it's a bit of Hatton-y, it's a bit, I'm that, I've been, and it's funny, I'm really, you know, I'm really happy to be having this conversation with you because, you know, as you think about your life, you know, I'm thinking, I've just been really thinking about my life recently. Yeah, man. Do you know what I mean? So, like, you know, I'm really wanting to, I'm processing.

7:30So I don't, I kind of have a Northwest, I don't have a, I don't have a, you know, certain people are like, I'm from Peckham. That's a big one these days, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Everyone's from Peckham.

7:40Mo Gilligan: I'm like Peckham put pressure on the whole map I'm like everyone's from Peckham like the fuck I was like oh man I need to be from Peckham you know what I mean so I didn't come everyone's really from Peckham some men are from the outskirts and they slide in do you know what I mean right so yeah but I didn't but I would have to if I was to say anything I'd say I'm north with a north east like east London north north west like I'm a bit of a mutt of that thing you know yeah and what was home life like because you said your dad was a big community leader. And what's your background? Is your background Jamaican?

8:13Mo Gilligan: Are you a small island as well? Yeah. What's the island? Is it St. Vincent? That's it, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. So my dad is a Vinci. Okay. You're a small island as well, isn't it? So yeah. Jamaican and a small island. Jamaican and St. Lucian. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Which is interesting because I think... Is your mum Jamaican? Yeah. My mum's Jamaican. That's St. Lucian, isn't it? You're not, guys. So you know what's interesting, yeah, about that mix is that Jamaica is such a dominant, global, recognised island. Yeah. But if you go to the small islands, it's like, oh, this is like this, but it's a little bit more chill.

8:50Mo Gilligan: The music's different. It's Calypso, it's so calm. Do you know what I mean? So how was your upbringing for you, especially with your dad being a community leader, but you going to stage school? Yeah, yeah. You know, I kind of tried to canonize it in Boxing Day, which is my film about my family's life. And it's like small island or St. Vincent and Jamaica, very big family, massive parties. Me and my family watching it the other day, like, you know, we do like big gatherings every other weekend, every birthday. I come from a, you know, my dad and his family come from a line of political speech writers in St.

9:29Vincent. so my grandfather was a political speech writer a landowner and so I come from that school of thought where my father's here is Marcus Garvey, Martin Luther King so me and my brother Mikel, you know from very early on we used to be told to stand up in front of people and talk about what we've heard or we'd be in Hackney Town Hall be like you know, my son has something to say so we come from a tradition of like oratory, you know we come from that kind of family and grew up in my brain, which another thing I've been processing is that in my brain, we grew up kind of like, to my mind, like wealthy.

10:07I thought we were rich, like for at least 12, 13 years of my life. I was like, we're rich. Dad's got the Range Rover. Dad's a business owner. He's got restaurants. He's got a hotel in St. Vincent. Like, you know, my mom is a psychotherapist, you know, so I kind of had this, I didn't have this tale of will I have the confidence to be something I was indoctrinated with you can be that which you want to be yeah of course and then going to school from six years old and getting into the audition circuit from that young you're taught to prove yourself you know what I mean but then our family's life took a turn where you know we kind of lost our money and it was a shift you know for me personally I was like oh shit you can you can lose stuff in this life man And then, you know, structurally, within the context of my family, you know, shit started to go wrong and divorces and all the rest of it.

11:01So these are like very informative parts of my life where the first half, I would say, really filled with a lot of confidence and the groundwork of what we would become or what I would become. And just having a kind of daring nature in the second half, like, shit, I need to get this money. I need to be successful. I need to help my family. I need to get back to where we were at you know just kind of that kind of thing

11:26Mo Gilligan: when did that shift happen when you said alright cool I gotta start because I feel like as a teenager we all get into that mode where for me it was a little bit later on where I think when I was around about 16, 17 and you start seeing like little glimpses of the finer things in life do you know what I mean and you're like oh right I want an R6 map it's possible I've seen it Sega Master System yeah yeah yeah Yeah. So I think for me at 16, 17, actually, I'd say it, I'd say it, I'd say it, I'd say it was six, probably like a moped. Felt like the dream. Do you know what I mean? It felt like I can get a motorbike if I get a job and I want to start making money.

12:04Mo Gilligan: So did that come for you at an early age? The only reason why I ask is because you go to stage school. So was it going to stage school where, you know, for some people, they have it within themselves of like, I just like expressing myself and coming from a background of being, you know, confident and, you know, your dad instilling lessons where you, you know, you speak up in front of people. You're proud to be where you're from, which can definitely help if you go to stage school. Yeah. Cause you have to, I always believe if you're a young actor, it's really about knowing yourself. Do you know what I mean?

12:35Mo Gilligan: So, so where did that shift start for you once you kind of hit stage school? I think, I think it was innate, man. you know first four years of life i was by myself i'd watch movies i always say like my mom gave me cinema and my dad gave me my confidence i'd watch movies i'd watch like you know you know old school movies like the nicholas brothers or ginger rogers and frederster i'd watch like all these old school movies and go i want to be an actor and so by the time i'm six years old six years old yeah i see macaulay culkin and home alone yeah yeah i'm like that's what i need to be doing yeah yeah you know And then I saw Richie Rich and I'm like, yo, that's what I need to be doing.

13:15He had McDonald's in his house. Yeah, just like G. So I end up leaving, not leaving, I end up going to stage school and just wanting to win. I've always had a very competitive spirit. In fact, there's a funny moment in my career. I worked with Michael Jackson, right? On the Brit Awards, yeah. And my friend Jamie Sweeney, like my school friend, we did the whole performance and I'm there. and I'm like doing the live performance Jarvis Cocker comes on stage the whole thing and my friend you can watch it on YouTube my friend Jamie Sweeney is standing next to Michael where Michael told me to stand and you can see me actually move him out of the way so I've always been that like so shit's just in you I was like hold on

14:00Mo Gilligan: how old was you at this age? 10, 11 really? I was like and I'm just like yo you know so you're asking about development I think certain things within our spirits just incredibly innate, you know? And I've always had to work hard. My younger brothers are very swaggy, very talented. This all comes quite easy to him. But I've got this kind of like real work hard ethic type of thing. So that happened. And then in stage school, yeah, I don't know. The desire to make it has always been, I remember saying to my mum when I was 11, I was like, yo, I need to go to America. I was like crying. She's like, why are you crying?

14:42I said, I sound like Shakespeare. So I didn't, you know, Will Smith's your idol, Eddie Murphy, you know, for me, I watched Cuba Goodens in a Jerry Maguire in 1996. And then I saw him win the Academy Award. I was like, what? You dropped me off in the wrong place. I sound like this. You know what I mean? And she goes, don't worry darling, you'll figure it out. Like you'll sort out the accent. And so by the time I'm 16, I'm applying to colleges to get, I've always wanted to get out of England in that way because I couldn't see a way to the dance.

15:14Mo Gilligan: Okay. You know, I couldn't see a way to, you know, even when we did like all kiddlerhood, then man would tell you that they were like, they're like, yeah, man, we can't wait to like, when we get on, this is like, you know, we're going to get girls and I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to Hollywood, bro. You know what I mean? It was just in my head. Yeah. As a young man, yeah. We'll get on to kiddlerhood in a bit. You see at that age, right, where you have that confidence and you're at stage school. Because, you know, Naomi Campbell went to your stage school. So, who, did you ever have anybody that you looked up to from these side of the shorts?

15:51Mo Gilligan: Because, again, like, for myself and the career that I do doing stand-up, I was always massively inspired by the Americans. So, it was always bigger, it was always brash, but I'd always be like, I like Lee Evans as well. Right, right, right. Did you ever draw any inspirations from here as well? Because it feels like from your upbringing, whether you're watching Hollywood films at six years old or you have your idols and you have a dad who's extremely confident and a mum and it's almost like you get all of those things, but was there ever any of those things that you was ever inspired by in your own backyard at all?

16:30Mo Gilligan: Or was it just... In my own backyard, specifically? we would do like family dances and stuff like that there's old tapes of me recording I've got 10 brothers and sisters there's like 10 of us well there's 10 now but I've always had a big family so we would I would take the big camera and like direct my family like you do this you do the Puffy and Mace dance and you know the bad boys thing and we'll do this so we're an entertainment family we've been growing up doing that in terms of my American journey I probably saw Adrian Lester in a film called Primary Colours in 1996 with Kathy Bates and it was like the first black British person I saw in a movie out there and I was like yo okay yeah let's do like you know what I mean yeah but not in that earlier stage man you know you know you've got seeing success if we're taking it outside of acting just seeing success seeing like so solid like literally you know when I was younger I remember going to Eros nightclub and sit standing in queue around 16 with my boys we were there for like 45 minutes 50 minutes, we're trying to get into a marijuana and something.

17:34Not that we're big marijuana fans, but we just wanted to, you know, to get them. So we're rolling through and we were there and then all those scenes is like a bunch of TTs turn up and they just get through. And I'm like, John, man. I said, brother, no, no, we've got to become someone, man. I can't be standing in this queue like this or seeing like success. You know, meeting Richard Blackwood when I was 17 and, you know, he was a star, like a proper, you know, he's a star still, but he was a larger than life figure. He felt quite polished and American. All his people then were American. You know what I mean?

18:08Like, you know, he's with Destiny's Child and he was accepted very early. So, you know, seeing those examples of success, yes, but from an acting point of view, but not really, not really, you know.

18:25Mo Gilligan: How much did stage school give you, you know, the ingredients to do what you've done before you got to film. Because I feel like the stage is... I'm in such awe of people that go on the stage. Of yourself. No, do you know what it is? Because for me, it's different because I'm a stand-up. So my thing is just relying on the laughter. As long as I get the laughter, I'm like, cool, this goes all right. But acting on stage is a different beast. So, especially at a young age as well. you know whenever I've seen young actors and I'm just like Robbie you're good man like and even whether it's like you know when I went to uni and I've done theatre production and you'd meet you know some of the people that would do like stage and they do you know theatre but more like kind of dancing and Broadway and stuff you'd be like yeah I don't know about this whole fame thing you know what I mean but also there was definitely a side of it that even now if I go to something on the west end And I'm like, you know, there's always a young person, like a young kid, and I went to see Michael Jackson recently, and they have like a young Mike who, the kid must be like 10 years old.

19:34Mo Gilligan: Right, right. But to go out in front of those people is like raw. Like, that's where you get your real beginning of your 10 ,000 hours, do you know what I mean? What tools did the stage at a young age give to you? Well, I did two big musicals in the West End. I did Oliver for a couple of years. I played Han Walker, I was 13. and then I did before that I did played Sammy Davis Jr. at 11. 11? Yeah, yeah. So around that same

20:06Michael Jackson thing. I did that. I played Sammy Davis Jr. did, you know, the Al Jolson story with Brian Connolly for anybody that does, you know, he was a big comedian guy. So I've, I got the, you know, you're the butterflies, the fear, you go out there, there's a rainbow around my shoulder, the whole music, same kid. That's the, I did that. Yeah. Did it, it gives you confidence. You get used to doing it and then you don't as well. Like if you ask me to go back on stage tomorrow, I'm going to be, I'm done stage in the, since before I left the country. So, you know, that fright is going to, even if I go and present something, them nerves, they come up, man, because there's nothing like a live audience and that adrenaline, and you know so I just think you just get into the practice of getting over the hurdle of the fear like what's it like for you as a stand up

21:04Mo Gilligan: I think as a stand up it's interesting because when you're in front of an audience for me it's just I take to it like water I find it so seamless easy okay to find a topic of discussion that I might have pre-written I might improvise I might go back into the library and be like I ain't done this one in a while let's try that do you do it like on the fly yeah definitely if I do work in progress shows wow my work in progress is like a beat sheet of there's that subject that subject that subject that subject but I need to be on stage for about an hour and a half to two hours to just keep hitting the beats and then once I record it I listen to it back I'm like ah there's something in that because I'm not doing it if I over prep and I'm like I've written this bit because that bit that I might have written might take me 30 minutes to write but it could take me less than five minutes to perform so I'm sitting there just like oh wow we spent the whole day writing this bit and it didn't even bang but sometimes the bits in the room especially when you tour I think that the touring side of a comic is where the gold really starts happening that's where I say the gold starts shining it shifts culturally doesn't it does it shift city to city 100 % man that Liverpool jokes and London jokes are going to feel different and I think that's why I'm so in awe of when I watch actors on stage where, you know, I've only done a small taste of being on screen in terms of acting.

22:30Mo Gilligan: And again, I've only done a small amount of it on stage when I was at uni doing acting. How do you find the shift between screen and when you're playing a part? Yeah. Do you know what? Screen's interesting because I'm so used to improv. Right. So, yeah, you know, when it's like, cool, that's the script. And I would say, hey, can I have a little you get them writers though that they're not having it I just worked with one I had to do this one it's ting last year it was only like a small cameo role so I'm like alright cool I know I'm in this cameo role for the comedy so you know I'm like cool and action do it goes great get a little laugh from the actors yeah man great great great and then like alright cut so it was shot in Estonia but it's got to look like it's America.

23:24Mo Gilligan: So obviously I'm on screen now and they're like, hey, if you could do it, just follow the script. And I'm like, oh, okay. But that version kind of banged in it. Cool. Forget your version. Anyone know that script one? I was like, boo.

23:44Mo Gilligan: It gets like that. But there is a massive admiration I have for actors as a whole. Do you know what I mean? to embody the character and execute it. You've got to work with other actors and what they bring to it. I don't get nervous when I'm doing screen acting. You don't get nervous? I don't get nervous. Wow. I'm a person that can actually watch my work. A lot of actors can't watch their work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I find it almost like I have a complete dissociation with the roles I play. I've built so much Rod between me and them Like I don't play myself Like that's very very rare A version of myself I've played it maybe three times in my career And so there's a feeling of like When I watch something I'm actually sometimes fascinated About like How I got there Or where I was in my It marks A pause moment Of where I was in my life And how much I've given myself Over to the Process of The performance Whereas if I was watching like Maybe this interview I might be like you know it's a bit different but when it comes to that there is um it's i guess it's that duck to water thing you're talking about it just feels very um you do all the prep work and if you do the prep work and you turn up as close to the person as possible yeah then then then great you know i mean even when there's like crazy crazy dialogue like i did a lawyer thing a couple years ago now and it was like crazy legalese OCGA 91442 subsection A, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

25:20And as soon as you're in it, it's like something else drives. It's free flowing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

25:26Mo Gilligan: Do you ever do this thing? And I must ask, because I do this sometimes, where you might be, I don't know if for your case, is that you're acting and you're delivering the lines and you're acting, but you are thinking of something else. So it's like you're on autopilot. Do you ever have that? Do you ever do that as an actor? Sometimes. Yeah. Very rare. Yeah, sometimes. I only say, because as a comic, I didn't know if it was the same with acting, but there's a lot of times where I'll do, if I'm touring and I've done this show for, I don't know, like 12 months, I'm on stage. I know it's coming out of my mouth.

25:59Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah. But in my head, I'm like, have I got noodles at home? Right, right, right. I'm going to have noodles. But everything is going on here. That's sick. The experience you're talking about, I've had it on stage, and I think I had it on stage once. Okay. when I did this, my last school play, because we more did performing arts when I was in school, we more did like tap and ballet and jazz. But my last play, I did the play called Inspector Calls. And I had a moment where I was doing my thing and then all of a sudden I picked up a glass, but I never ever planned to pick up the glass before.

26:31Oh yeah, yeah. You know, you're just in it. And then all of a sudden I'm like,

26:35Mo Gilligan: I was like, holy shit, this is cold. So like there's a me watching the whole thing happen. And I'm like, oh shit. but I've rarely ever got back to that moment again. I had it a bit when I played King, when I played Dr. King and there was like, because I was giving the speech, you know, the March on Washington speech and you're doing it in front of like 200 extras and you kind of like, but you've, it's not even a practice anymore. It's like, you know, just those moments I'm like, oh fuck, but I was able to sustain it. I was able to sustain it because I'm a little bit more of a type of actor. I lean, it just happens.

27:19I just end up leaning closer to the energy. Like I'm always fascinated by people, you know, if I worked with different people, what they know of me.

27:28Mo Gilligan: Yeah. Or if someone was like, oh, this is what I'm like. And I'm like, unless you're meeting me in like life, I kind of, for a lot of my roles or work, it's like you're meeting a version of me that's energetically closer to that individual yeah yeah yeah of course do you get what I'm saying so I'm most curious I'm most curious about like oh so who was that you know what I mean like who did you think you you know yeah yeah yeah how was it um early in your career when you know it's what 2005 and you read the script for for kid out hood and what went through your head when you first read that script?

28:13So it was 2003.

28:14Mo Gilligan: Is it 2003? It was 2003. Because it came out in 2006. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So it was 2003. I'm in Barnet College and there was a guy called Aaron who's just, you know, one of the brothers at college and he's like, yeah, I'm going for this film, man. This film. It's like this new street thing. And I'm like, okay, yeah. But, you know, they're trying to see like, you know, real street people I'm like okay so I call up my agent I'm like yo what's going on there's an audition for this film anyway she goes you know we're going to get you in I end up going to an audition you know I meet Noel Clark I meet Menaj Huda Menaj Huda Menaj Huda is the director I meet all these different people and I think it was like a big open audition in West London I think probably hundreds I don't want to I don't want to be a hyperbole but hundreds of people and they would just whittle us down and we'd improvise, improvise, improvise.

29:10And I remember I ended up doing, getting down to the last like 30, 20 people and then doing the bullying scene where Sam, the character Sam bullies us. And I remember like, I remember like getting into a situation where the actor, you know, Noel, kind of head, like going to headbutt us. I was like, is this real? Like what's going on? And then it was, I think I was with Adam at the time and there was like a bit of a scuffle and he's like, yeah, yeah, this is good. this is good then we came back for the the second round of auditions end up getting the job and we did a reading for film four at the time and then the film went down nothing a year later they're like okay we've got some money they had to do private finance in film four wouldn't take it blah blah blah blah no one wanted this film really this was totally privately financed with like Costa Coffee money and like all these different families came together to make this 500 000 pound yeah yeah yeah this film was not meant to happen even within the context of the business you know now i do a lot of producing like this film's sometimes not overly embraced because i think it's a little bit of a mar on the you know the british institutional system which happens you know just sometimes you don't see it so we came back and everybody got their parts but me and i just spent the year doing it like a play around town going, yo, I'm going to be in this film called Kadoa.

30:39I'm telling you, I'm the lead of the thing. And everyone got their parts but me. And I always hold hoods, who's the director who lives in LA. I'm always busting his balls over this. I was like, bro, you tried to stop the history, bro. You tried to, you know, you're an enemy of progress. So everyone got their parts but me and another actress. And me and that actress had to audition against. Adam got his part, Femi got his part. and I went home that week man and I was just bawling I was like yo like the hell like this opportunity because the script felt very very singular I'd never heard anything like it you know I went to stage school so within the prism of being in stage school even me understanding the urbanised language of our black culture came in college

31:25Mo Gilligan: so I was like two years on the job of like what was going on in Peckham do you know what I'm saying you know and I was like you know so I was adjusting my ear to it I was like, okay, this is how people are speaking. And a lot of my friends at the time, my friends that are now the 16-year-old friends and all the rest of it, they peeped me to the dance. I started sagging my trousers. Wow, I got out of fam. I did a couple of mashed up. You know, you're trying to be cool in college, but you're wearing a bandana. That was 1996. You're wearing Tupac's bandana. You're like, that was 1996, bro. You're kind of wearing a Donald Jones Kangol hat.

32:01You're like, brother, yeah, you're not quite. you're a bit out of the loop fam but anyway so everyone got their their job but me and an actress funny enough you know me and that girl were together

32:13Mo Gilligan: and there's something about trying to take the energy of in real life on screen and it just didn't work for them when we auditioned so she never got the part but I went home that week and I learnt it changed my whole approach to acting I learnt the entire screenplay and I came in for the audition was just me and one other guy. So you learned it in one week? The entire screenplay. The entire screenplay. I remember going into the audition room somewhere up Soho like where we are now and Hood saying oh we're going to do some other scenes as well so here's the sides and I was like oh I know it and he goes you know you know what I'm going to choose I said I know this I know the entire script because you know the entire script I said yeah I know the entire script and so you know Femi and Adam came in and other no Femi and Adam came in you know me and the other guy I would go back and forth.

33:04But I did every scene off book. And it just changed the way I worked and all the rest of it. And eventually, about a week later, I got the part. And the rest began to become history. Like, I didn't know that that film would be, you know. It's a classic. It's literally a classic. Oh, no, it's a classic, bro. People, it's part of their childhood. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Which I've been kind of studying. like i was like why is this film like so important to people but i think anything that's incredibly impressionable when you're a kid it stays in your mind more intimately yeah for me it's like watching the five heartbeats so when i meet man like leon i'm like oh mad this is like you know so it's in the brain in a particular uh particular space in your in mind but um yeah man we did the film and then in 2004 we shot it and then 2006 it got released so there was stages of like this film um coming out and we had we had the premiere in empire leicester square and you know i don't know if i knew confident but i didn't know where my level of acting was at that time necessarily Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

34:21And then I saw the reaction from the audience.

34:24Mo Gilligan: What was that reaction like? A changing of the guard. Oh, wow. A generation being heard. Dizzy Rascal was there and all that. Like, it was like a changing of the guard. A generation's been heard. Something authentic. That's not just street. It's about kids. It's about multicultural London. You know, all of, like, it felt like a shift in London, in the UK. It felt like it then. And I was on that. That came out March 3rd. And I'd just been on, started The Bill January 11th. So I was on The Bill and Kid Old was in the cinema and I was on TV twice a week with The Bill, with Lewis Hardy. Yeah. And so, you know, you're getting that Middle England audience while you're getting, you know, the street thing.

35:20Yeah, man. You know, he just started to... Yeah, yeah.

35:25Mo Gilligan: Do you ever sit back and... Did you ever get a chance to really absorb the success of it all? Because I guess, you know, what you're telling me of how hard it was to put the film out and having a film come out where people felt like they were finally listened to. Because I remember when it came out and I had just left school. and it was interesting for us to leave in school because we were like oh oh right but this is this is what's going on like and I think what was really interesting around the film is in London we were like yeah life's not far from from that in some parts but I remember the reaction that and I went I remember this I went to Cardiff that my cousins had and they used to watch the film they watch it and watch it again and they'd all and they was, I remember they'd come to London and they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

36:16Mo Gilligan: So it's like that. It's really like that. And I'm like, yeah. But let's not forget it's a film. It's amplified. But I think that the film was such a cultural moment in a way that even now it's still got quotables. Do you know what I mean? Trevor, I mean, like I got to do that. Yeah, I love that. Love that boy. Me and my friends still say that. Trevor, I mean, I got to do that. You. You. Kind of like really, really well done over the top acting by Claude ah listen man it's memorable but it was so many memorable that one I don't hear that much that's my bit you know every time you see it you

37:00Mo Gilligan: the film really sparked one when it came to you know independent films and I think it was also at a time where we had a pocket of films that were released around that time that we still I will say like Bullet Boy came out around that time, like really iconic films that really gave us, you know, our stamp on like, you know, it's like, it's like you're saying, like we grew up watching a lot of the American stuff. So growing up watching Menace Society or, you know, Juice or Boys in the Hood and then realizing we're like, oh, like we, we got some of these here, you know, we've got our own stories.

37:35Mo Gilligan: Did you ever get to really enjoy the success? Because if you're doing a bill at the same time, did you ever really get to, to take it in? because the only reason why I asked, I remember what London was like at that time. And, you know, there wasn't the social media and stuff. So what was life like for you, you know, just living day-to-day life around that time? You know, I feel like it was like, I'd say, you know, I don't know it to be true exactly, but it felt very, we had MySpace, remember that? But it felt very, very amplified and felt very, very embraced by the community. like you know and then it just felt like I guess fame today is something that can kind of be a little bit more manufactured I think whereas I think if you're famous you know maybe 20 years ago you're famous from a I guess I guess you're famous from like the the street and the people coming together and really focusing on a product so if you're thinking about the bill for example like 8 to 9 million people watching that at one time, you know, well, let me extend his numbers back in a day, like at one time, you know, you know, if I say to you, you know, you're not my man.

38:50Mo Gilligan: Yes, I am. You know, we all know in it because we're all watching something at the same time. So I think fame and the business has shifted, but did I get to enjoy it? A lot, man. A lot, a lot, a lot. Yeah. I got to enjoy it. But I've always had, I'm a futurist by nature. so how to what degree is interesting because i'm always like okay but what am i doing next what am i doing it i'm also very big on not being trapped in a time okay you know i'm very big on like evolution and and what else one can create and i've always been my blessing and my curse is that i've always been very ambitious and i've always known what's i've always thought i know what's possible yeah yeah so that's a blessing and a curse right you can go you go into stuff and you know even going to america when i did with nothing really i went to america with like nothing they didn't hear about kid old or the bill they don't know about those things i mean it's totally in that way like you don't have the pop from international you just have the real like the dvd and there you go like you know you know yeah yeah um i remember doing like a very small part in a film called red tails and like getting a bunch of dvds to like show all the american actors you know and in that moment i gave funny if i gave cuba goodens my dvd when we watched it in prague and he's like man this is what is going on it's like it's like lahane right you know and that's the guy that ended up signing my visa to get into the states oh really in 2010 do you get what I'm saying so like they just didn't know but they've had these pockets of so even me going to the states I've always been a bit more like you know what's next yeah which is a blessing and a curse the blessing and a curse because I think at that time you know if you're if you're doing the bill and you you was a household name around that time especially with a film like kid out hood which the longevity is like you're saying of a film like that films is those moments just felt like they lasted for so long.

40:52Do you know what I mean?

40:53Mo Gilligan: It's not to say that they don't now. I just feel that we have much more choice of we're watching this now and next week we're watching something else. Do you know what I mean? So the longevity can... So true, man. Yeah, because now I can choose to watch whatever I want. And before I've... I could have binged one of the best TV series made. And then the next week I'm like, I'm on to the next one. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And I feel like there used to be a time where it was like, have you seen this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ain't seen it. I'm going to watch it. I think what I was trying to say is the word and mouth of it all.

41:25Yes. That's the difference in the thing. Yes, yes, yes.

41:27Mo Gilligan: That's a perfect way to summarise it. So you're kind of in your middle in some ways because where you are now, your journey in like the last 15 years of like, you know, going to America at that time, you know, where America, especially LA is an interesting place. And as a black British actor as well, you know, now you know we can kind of see you know you're like oh i've seen this person go in this thing they've kind of moved over there and now they're in the thing over there you can kind of map the journey a little bit more because i feel like what was it like at 2010 because you know when i'm there like i see you i've seen you in soar house yeah i play football with like rammy for example do you know what i mean like anyone listening that's that's a mutual friend essentially that's your guy basically and play football at my man's house still.

42:19Mo Gilligan: That's so crazy. Rod Stewart's house. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Man like TJ. It's my little flex sometimes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rod Stewart's house is bad. Yeah, bro. We've got Rod's house, bro. Rod's. You don't go on Rod's. That's crazy for you, bro. Get your money up, bro. But I think, what was life like for a black British actor in 2010? Because, bro, I went to different parts of the States recently and, you know, some of the questions I get asked now still blows my mind someone say hey man y 'all got what's that man I'm like oh brand y 'all got niggas out there no bro some guy says to me y 'all got Louis Vuitton out there I said Louis Vuitton I said bro it's down the road bro Paris is around the corner man but like what was it like for you in 2010 because the world was a different place back then man we didn't have social media yeah look man look I got very blessed man I went out there 2010 and within two weeks of doing something called pilot season.

43:18If anybody doesn't know, pilot season was. It's like a RIP pilot season. The bottle, the water bottle tour. Yeah, but the pilot season was like January to April, every year where you can come and change your life. You know what I mean? It's that kind of vibe. So I went out there, 2010 pilot season, on the choir, didn't tell no one. And within like 13 days, I got the show called Harry's Law.

43:42Mo Gilligan: Really? Yeah, man. Wow. I was actually flown out there for another thing. I didn't get that. Same violin in the thing like, oh, my life's about to change and it's gone. They sent the first class flight. They did all the thing and then, you know. First class back then was a different first class. Yeah, man, you know, you're out there. I'm trying not to drink champagne because I'm like, I need to focus on the lines. No, you focus, right? I got out there and it's, I think, what was it called? I can't remember. It's some show of ABC. And I never got it, man. And I was like, fuck. that close and that's a tragic that's like a mini tragedy in your life because you're like because to me I just honestly I did kiddo the bill did some plays did silent witness but to me I was like you've got to go like there's nothing here do you know what I mean there's nothing if you want to continue outside especially if you want to continue outside the trajectory of playing a particular type of role it's very limited so I was like I need to go went over there didn't get that but then I just broke I grinded and focused like I was like I need to go to every single room and body distance.

44:45And I'd probably like one of the first batches of our generation because obviously Idris Elba was over there and you know David Oyelowo had already done there. But 2009 like went over there got that job Harry's Law and they kind of sent a ripple to people like actors out here. They were like oh shit someone we know that we grew up with that we've seen about

45:09Mo Gilligan: that's a part of our thing is there like doing Because it wasn't the Instagram post. Yeah, it was a MySpace post. And I waited. I sat on it for about two months to make sure that the show was going to get commissioned. And then, because you'd have a pilot, you could shoot a pilot and then not happen. This happens a lot later, where sometimes you can get paid for a job and everything and it just won't come out. Yeah, yeah, they do pilot. Back in the day, you used to do pilot and then they see if they're going to do a series order of the show. Okay. So we did the pilot. It was called Kindreds. And then funny enough, loads of people got cut from the pilot.

45:46They just reorganized the storyline. And then my storyline survived. And I did Harry's law out there for a year. And then my character got cut. Do you get what I'm saying? Yeah. My character got cut from it. Cause there was like a change of the guards of like, you know, I don't know who was it like on these NBC heads. And so again, I fuck, let me get back to it. Like on the grind, do a little CSI Miami. me and then the butler comes along all right bam you know so i've had to like i've been like one of those have a great moment and then incrementally grind have a great moment and then boom boom boom you know some people have the boom and then they're gone yeah but my journey's been like boom all right cool and it's actually what's the good thing about it it's been very frustrating at times But the good thing about it is I've had to become really good at my craft and also become someone that can shift and change and fit in a different places.

46:48If you look at, I guess, the characters I've played, it's not like a through line of an individual. Do you get what I'm saying? Which would be nice, but it's more like, oh, he's done that, he's done that. It's all these different type of versatility within the work. But life was, bro, life was amazing. I was watching Entourage, you know? I met my boys out there, like my American brethren, we're all 24. Yeah, yeah. Man's making money. You know, I've got a British accent. You know, I'm driving the fucking BM or whatever. Do you know what I mean? Driving down Sunset Boulevard. Every year, people are coming in to like, get their job.

47:25I'm meeting up with them. You know, I'm partying with Prince and...

47:29Mo Gilligan: Prince? Yeah, like... Bro, you got... Wait, wait, wait. three eat wines when the crowd says both wait what do you mean you're partying with Prince how where what what start that from the top room we've got stories we've got stories you can't just drop that like that yeah yeah I'm out there in the BMW yeah yeah yeah chilling with Prince that's a little car as well but when you're 24 you're having a nice time yeah so me and an actress called Goo Goo and Bath & Raw were doing a show on Warner Brothers a lot at the same time I was doing Harry's Law she was in something else with mates we did a film called Fallout with Lenny James in London she went out there did her ting boom boom boom so she's like yo one day she's like yo Mel I've got to go to this party I'm like alright bet she's like you want to come I said yeah what he goes it's Prince I was like yeah I was like okay that looks like the Prince symbol Loki it's Prince it's Prince welcome Prince and he was just on her he just fancied her and so he he got us into his party I'm there it's like El Kujay Taraji P Henson like you know just having a great time and then Prince is there playing with the band and you know the bald headed girls and you go up in the Bel Air mansion and there's like he's got the whole the water but he's got like glass all over his pool and it's blue or it's purple sorry with the Prince symbol underneath it and we're dancing on top of the Prince symbol and you know I remember going to me he's like yo man is that your girl I'm like nah nah that's what oh she fine though right she fine so yeah I had a great time in my 20s over there having a freaking a proper laugh you know what I mean like there's so many of those memories man how easy is it to get swept up into that though because I've I've gone out to LA and I've had an absolute ball all the time when you are also meant to be working as well because I think that's probably the danger of of LA in some ways where seduction of it all you know I think the stats is crazy of like I think it's like 100 ,000 people go there a year to make it and 100 ,000 people leave every year do you know what I mean so how hard is it to focus when the vibes are like that because I like that is like LA in a nutshell where like you know you can just be chilling having a drink and someone's like what are you up to not much go in Jamie's house who's Jamie bro I don't know this brother Jamie Foxx's house what you wanna come Jamie loves a party bro he's been partying like how hard is it to stay focused because that don't happen in London you know what I mean like yes you wanna go to the Shubs where is it I don't know Halston I'm at my past year you know whose party is it yeah bruv Shankar Shankar who's Shankar I don't know you're going to the Horde party bro yeah yeah yeah 30 man there sipping juices in the little white cups.

50:31Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now the red cups are popular. The white cups do the, and it starts to break after the third drink. You start buying it. Yeah, yeah. It's just - Oh shit, the white cups. But like, how hard is it to stay focused in that environment in LA, especially as a Brit? Because you know, you start talking, it's a rap. Do you know what I mean? Sometimes you talk for no reason. Right, darling, how are you? You put on some James Bond accent, Just because you don't want to make sure that, because they can't really understand the ting, innit? They understand the ting now, but in the 2010s, they were like, you Jamaican?

51:05Do you know what I mean? And you want to tell us that you're British. People wonder why my accent, they're like, yo, you've been there 15 years, your accent's proper London. What is that, bro? What are we talking about? It's your cape, innit? The calling cards. Oh, man. the answer to the question is fairly simple yeah it's easy to focus yeah for me it's always been it's been easy to focus man yeah I think it's easy to focus I do because one like it's different when you're there as a visitor so I would get the visitor vibes when everybody would come in from to pilot season but more time you're having just doing normal life you had the coffee shop especially now but like you know yeah yeah yeah yeah but good times in LA

51:55Mo Gilligan: that's that look where you're like let me just stop there yeah incriminating myself yeah LA's been good but also you started to get into your into your directing bag as well Boxing Day what made you want to do the shift into that world because especially you know being an actor I guess you are always looking at other avenues because you spoke about you know producing as well. But what was it that started to inspire that shift in your journey as well? Again, I don't think it's a shift, man. I've been making short films since I left LA. I used to finance my short films. So I did a short film called The Pickup.

52:38I did one called Drink Drugs and KFC, which a lot of young actors who are doing well now, like Nadine Mills or Samson Kao, Aaron Fontaine, that was all their launching pad into the Okay. You know, so I've always wanted to direct and I self finance my directing journey for a long time, even with the boxing day, which I was always like, man, I love love actually. You know, I love the word. I love films like that. There's no film out there that represents like the black middle class family or the black family having a great time, like a movie that celebrates our culture and about love and you know even with Boxing Day I kind of as a writer I kind of draw from my life so the premise of Boxing Day is a British writer takes American girl home to meet his Caribbean family and he's left behind his ex-fiance who's become a star aspects of that is my was my real life you know what I mean because you had

53:38Mo Gilligan: Leanne Pinnock in it Leanne Pinnock in it yeah yeah she played the ex the ex-girlfriend became a pop star so I kind of I love writing I want to do so much more with it in my the next shot i guess towards the end like the next i love writing and filmmaking i want there's so much to say um from my soul you know as a as a just as a human existence so with boxing day um i've wanted to make a film like that forever in a day and to be honest bro i literally everyone was just on some no thing like no you know maybe and around 2019 i met a producer in la he's become my producing partner I said do you know what yeah I'm going to make this boxing day for like 500 grand it was a much more contained version and I'm going to put up 250 grand of my own money and as soon as I did that and walked into all of these buildings like the British system it all opened up everybody was very like oh you're going to do that yeah I want you guys to partner and I went around trying to raise the money in the end And they all just kind of like bought me out.

54:44Mo Gilligan: You know? I tell that story to just tell, because a lot of people ask, well, how you doing? And all the rest of it. Sometimes whatever version of putting your money where your mouth is, you just got to get out there and do it. But I've wanted to make films my entire life. I grew up in a family, 10 kids or seven at the time. And I would be the guy with the big camera, then big old school cameras like that. All right, you guys go there. All right, cut. and you pause it and then you're just like, all right, and then, all right, boom, Drew Hill. Tell me what you, all right, cut. All right, cool. You know what I mean?

55:18Like, you know what I mean? Like the whole thing with my siblings. So I'm a filmmaker. It's not, it's not a fad for me or it's not like, it's not just a way to progress. It's an expression of my soul. A very intimate one, like something that, and again, it's kind of duck to water type of vibes. Sometimes, to be honest, it's hard to be on set as an actor unless I'm incredibly engrossed in the role and it's very demanding, rusting, it's very demanding, like, you know, whatever, Yardi with Idris Elba, that's a very, because you're transforming, then boom, but sometimes I'm like, the adrenaline of wanting to tell my stories, our stories, you know, our stories as black people, not just like modern, just from a global perspective, I'm hoping, by the grace of God, I get the opportunity, like I'm afforded the, the blessings to really, show the world what's in my soul as a filmmaker.

56:13Yeah, yeah. Because that's like, that's deeply entrenched in me. Yeah. You know what I mean?

56:18Mo Gilligan: And I guess that's so important for actors as well where you can go to LA and be hugely successful but also coming back here and still doing things here as well that you're still passionate about because I guess it must be also you know, easy for any actor who goes across the pond and finds success to say, well, do I need to go back home? Do you know what I mean? I did it, yeah. Do you know what I mean? I've kind of done the thing. But I guess it's almost wanting more, but also once you start realising what happens behind the screen and the deals that are made there, it gives you a different perspective of like, oh, right, I thought I was doing all right on the screen.

57:02Yeah, yeah, yeah. But this is what happens. Off the screen, yeah.

57:05Mo Gilligan: And I don't even know who these people are. But essentially... Oh yeah, from a physical point of view for sure. But even just like, you're shaping the world's view of any one group of people when you're filmmaking, you know? And, you know, you do that with, you know, you specifically have canonized a, like, an experience through humor. Do you get what I'm saying? And I think some actors, I've met a lot of actors and some of the greatest actors, like even Kathy Bates, who's a good friend of mine, they are very, very committed to that particular part of the art form, you know, like singularly. And it's so powerful.

57:55They get their full kick out of that. For me, it's the dynamic aspects of it. I mean, when I'm on set these days, if I'm a gun for hire, I'm actually, I'm with the producers. And because I now speak the language of a producer, they kind of invite me into the conversations. But otherwise, you must have found this, right? That they wouldn't invite you to. But as soon as you can speak the language of, you know, putting stuff out there or, you know, and not just the creative language, the physical language or, you know, I love that aspect of the job in this middle part of my life.

58:30Mo Gilligan: You know what it is, I think about what you're saying is really interesting of that part of, being behind the camera and essentially, you know, being an architect of your own design. I feel like once you kind of get, I don't know, if you want to use the word of like getting that seat at the table, it gives you, for me anyway, it's given me a different scope of, you know, there's more strings to your bow in some ways. So essentially where you can look at it from a viewpoint of like, I can make it I can be in it I can write it and I can direct it not in a way that's just a flex of hey man I've wrote it directed it started in it do you know what I mean because I think it always sounds good on camera or you know in the press release or whatever but once you know you have those meetings you sit down with someone and you sit down with like a director and you're like okay cool so what kind of lenses are we looking at using and you have those and they go oh oh you know about you know about lenses yeah yeah oh okay cool so um what's the what's the frame of time that we're gonna be filming this in because I understand if there's a budget if we go over how does that start looking right right right cutting into the day next year yeah yeah yeah cool are we gonna what's daylight saying because is that gonna be more expensive do we need another day I feel like those questions are so important to give you a better understanding of even when you go back front of the screen yeah yeah yeah because well yeah like listen, you stop being, you know, us actors, we can be a bit, you know, our process is so challenging.

1:00:09So you become very singular and isolated often in trying to achieve the very thing that people have to watch and believe in. Whereas I love about being a director and a filmmaker, it's a community. There's a community aspect to it. I'm very isolated as an actor, especially the roles I get to play which are often deep shit do you mean but where's you know Boxing Day was a joy because I'm like I'm just in full communication with the whole process plus I love I'm a competitive person but I really really love seeing people fly especially this I've got some hand in the writing yeah you know like seeing like you know what Leanne Pinnock just like working with someone that did not act and there's a good reason for her to be in the mood from a business standpoint but i saw parts of her as a person in interviews and i was like oh man like she can be the georgia i remember the girl i wrote it about it's like oh she's got that temperament there's an innocence yeah and i was like damn can i get like in seeing her growth through the process or shako or tomorrow lawrence like seeing that and then working with veterans like marion james baptiste and actually understanding the process of that understanding what the job of directing is it is to have it is to like have the entire vision of it but actually when you're on set it's almost like you're not i thought you were the boss you're not the boss man there can be a mutiny one if people stop believing in you it can be a mutiny and secondly you know your job is to understand each person and service what they do you know that might mean really getting out of the way.

1:01:53Do you know, I really have kind of taken to that like a duck in water. Like, I really have. It's such a fun thing, man. And it's, like, filmmaking, I think why it has such, like, you know, reverence, it takes so many people and so many yeses to get to just doing what we love doing. It's like, you know, you can make a hit in the bedroom. You know, I've heard you make hits on Instagram with your raps and stuff.

1:02:27Mo Gilligan: Oh yeah, bro. I was like, where are you going with this, bro? I heard you make hits in the bedroom. No, no. I was like, hey. My guy.

1:02:39Mo Gilligan: Yeah, bro. I mean, listen, when I was especially at my mum's, listen, man, I thought I was like, yeah, bro. And the thing is, I was doing it just, I didn't have no mic. So a lot of it was all on it's on camera do you know what I mean but once you you know you put a backing track on it so yeah man you speak about you know roles and characters and isolating yourself for a role how important was it when you you know you got the call to play Martin Luther King you know that that must have been so challenging but also I don't know was it challenging or was it because you know I asked because for a UK actor to play someone so iconic that question I don't know where it was for yourself but also the question always comes about with you know British actors playing American roles do you know what I mean if there's a role that you play and you're playing Martin Luther I'm going to say Martin Luther Vandross I don't know why I was going to say that but if you're playing Martin Luther King like that must have been I don't know man where did your head where did your head sit in that space so I was in Canada I was doing a show called The Porter and I was in the sound mix and score mix for Boxing Day.

1:03:58So I was quite inundated with like loads of stuff and very strangely, I wish this happened more often, but very strangely, I literally was in the yard in Canada and I woke up from a dream. Lol. I had a dream. and Steven Spielberg said to me in the dream you know you're gonna I need you to come and play Martin Luther King

1:04:25Mo Gilligan: that's in a dream yeah I'll show you I've got it all I'll show you and I was like huh I don't even it's not come to me it's not been a desire of mine to play King it was just so random and literally I want to say a week maybe a month later there was like an audition that came up to play Martin Luther King in Ruston that's mad That's so mad. And because I was so busy, and I was doing my films, I was more feeling that, to be honest. I quickly put it on tape, and I had the look of King because I had the moustache with no face here for the role. And I did it, and they liked it. And then the next day they were like, oh, listen, before you go to work at 8 a.m., they want to screen test you over Zoom with George C.

1:05:09Wolfe. And I'm like, what? I said, I can't. I want to prepare. And I didn't have no time to prepare. and I was thrown into the situation, and I read off sides, which you remember my kid-old journey. I'm like, no, I need to be fully... And I just had to read off sides, and it was like the smoothest transition into getting the role. When I got the role, I was like, oh, my God, man, and then I shat myself, and I was like, how are you going to do this? How are you going to do this?

1:05:39Mo Gilligan: Because I always think anyone that steps into the arena of a biopic and play someone that's some balls man yeah I was like so I called up David Oyelowo who played Martin Luther King before in Selma and he's like oh welcome to welcome to the club table I'm like mate what do I do he goes see this woman called Liz Himmelstein who would work on the operatic style voice that King had and and then he says and then just eat and eat a lot of food you know what I mean So I started to work with Liz Himmelstein and then ended up flying out to, you know, the table read and Coleman Domingo and I, we'd done the Butler together years before and, you know, we were mates.

1:06:28And I was like, I'm here with like, you know, Jeffrey Wright and Chris Rock's there. and you know I'm like there's some proper players here and then I have to then open the the screenplay I'm the first person to talk

1:06:44Mo Gilligan: is everyone just watching you bro do you know I didn't speak because I was like I don't want them to know I'm British I did not speak and so I end up I did it and then there was no question they weren't they weren't watching because they just didn't know I was British and then when we came to actually shoot the actual film I said Amel do you know what you're going to have to do you just have to stay in character. You have to stay in character. And very beautifully, the producers supported you. They saw when I came in and I started to wear the outfit and I would just talk. From the time I woke up in the morning, went downstairs to my driver.

1:07:25My driver never heard me speak anything outside of King's voice. And it's helped me to start to believe it because there's no one trying to study you because they only have met you as that individual. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't until I got through, and I had to do the King's speech the first week of shooting. So it wasn't until like maybe four or five weeks in, I started to like at dinner would talk with people. I remember the first time I spoke to like Jeffrey Wright in my accent or Chris Rock, who's funny.

1:07:59Mo Gilligan: He was like, nigga, you could act. Nigga, you had to. This nigga acted, isn't it? I'm like, I was like, oh, thanks, man. He's like, nigga, you British, nigga? I'm like, yeah, yeah. You know, and the first year, he's like, yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean? He's like, nigga. You know, them men are brazen. And so, literally, the way I got through it was by just not parking Amel as much as possible and no one really heard me speak other than Coleman who you know we'd known each other before no one heard me speak and how many weeks was this for? this was for September October November maybe about four months man and we had Covid so we had to shut down and come back you know what I mean so oh man that is real real method right there man fear it's real fear and commitment I don't want to mess it up yeah I don't want to mess it up And also I want to have the most...

1:09:04Mo Gilligan: What's the fear?

1:09:08The fear... For me, it's a mixture of things. It's like it got announced, I was playing it, right? And, you know, those that know my work know my work and those that don't, I can kind of like skate by. But it was... I saw a comment on Shadeborough. It's like, there's no way Trevor can play Martin Luther King.

1:09:30Mo Gilligan: There's no way that Trevor, they posted me on Shaebride, I was like, there's no way Trevor can play Martin Luther King. I said, yeah, bet. Let's see, my G. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's it, Trevor. Martin Luther King. Like, we like you, Trevor. Come on. And that went in my head, and I was like, when this comes out, no one's even going to, it's going to be, I'm going to commit as much as I can to being transformative. So it's that fear and that will at the same time. You know what I mean? And listen, Americans loved it and embraced me for it. And it's done wonders for my career, prestige, elevation within the American space.

1:10:11The film went to the academy. I got invited into the academy after the performance and all the rest of it. And so it's been great.

1:10:21Mo Gilligan: Oh, man. That's why I say, man, bro, to step into a role like that, especially as being a British actor because you know you hear of the the discussions of you know like British actors shouldn't be playing our roles I mean the man them are killing it low key the man them are out here putting pressure on the whole thing to be fair to you it's great to see man it's sensational to see man now when we started this pod you looked at the end question and you was like fucking hell oh man this end man this end is coming up man but But I think when I look at your career of, in the height of being in a cult classic film, being in a television show, which is getting eight million, you know, every, every, is it every day the bill was on, right?

1:11:14Two times. Was it twice? Yeah, Wednesday and Thursday. Really? Yeah.

1:11:18Mo Gilligan: It's mad because in my head I'm thinking it was like EastEnders back to back. Yeah. So like when you're in a show like that, and you go to America, like 2010, where I think when you look at the world in the space that it is now, you know, going over there now is a lot easier for me than it would have been in 2010. You know, with the, you know, having to do like Netflix or whatever it is. They have a reference point of, you know, UK music, UK sound, UK art, UK. And the scene is not just there anymore. We're international. like the whole thing is international. Yeah, most definitely. So the question is for your end is, and I know you still live out there as well, right?

1:12:04Mo Gilligan: Do you feel that like your work is done here because you at an early age said, well, I'm going to go over there to be a success. And you are a success over there. Do you know what I mean? no one just goes and plays Martin Luther King, do you know what I mean? Or has people like Cuba Gooding Jr. signing their immigration letters, do you know what I mean? So you are a major success over there. You are really flying the flag for British actors over there. I don't know if you are that reference point for some of the younger actors where they're like, oh, Amel, can I ask for some advice on X, Y, and Z?

1:12:47I've been for sure over the years, yeah.

1:12:49Mo Gilligan: but do you feel like your work is is is done here in some ways because you are you know you are producing you are directing like what does that end start to look like because we can live in this country but also feel that i don't know if i feel as i don't i don't feel like i i i don't i don't get the love that i get when you're in the states because that's one thing that we all love when we go out there as a black Brit. Man, where y 'all from, man? London, bruh. South London, bruh. You know about gigs, no? Let me tell you, man. But like, there's so many actors that is, you know, what you started the pod of saying is that I wanted to go to America.

1:13:29And there's so many black British actors.

1:13:32Mo Gilligan: And that's the viewpoint now where you're like, to be a success, I want to go out there. And you're like, you're saying that the world is a bigger place. But do you feel like your work here is done? or do you feel like there's more work to do now that acting here is in a different space than what you left it as in 2010? I think my work here is at its beginning. Oh, wow. You know, it's at its beginning. You know, I'm part of a legacy, you know, from a British standpoint of, you know, you can tell a story about a time, you know, doing certain, like, you know, even doing Yardie, I wanted to come back and do that with, you know, the Don Idris, you know, and his thing, and Boxing Day.

1:14:14I think my work is just beginning, man. You know, I'm a man now. Dear mama, I'm a man now.

1:14:21Mo Gilligan: You know, I want to make it on my own, not a handout. I'm a man now, you know, kiddohood, and that reference point is a part of my life as a young man. I'm a man now, so I'm very curious about where... You know, how I can help shape British culture cinematically and globally be a part of it. How I can work with the best of the best and just continue to make, to grow and impact. I've just got so much more as an artist in all the different disciplines to do. I feel like I've just began. Yeah. Strangely, you know. I've been like famous since I was a kid, but a certain type of famous, you know, one that's kind of manageable.

1:15:21And, and, and for me now, I'm very interested in taking our stories like international and globally and the world getting to know us. And then for me as an actor playing, just playing those seismic, parts that I want to be I want to lend myself to stuff that's got the ability to be classic I don't work for just work's sake

1:15:52Mo Gilligan: yeah yeah yeah I've also been very smart and frugal with myself and so I don't need to just work to work I want to work and work on my the painting of my life do you know what I mean like if you go to the Tate Modern you're like this is the paintings of of my life and it just so happens within the context of my painting I get to paint us who we are you know what I mean yeah does that make sense yeah no of course man you know how important are are our stories as well it's the last interview before I'm 40 man it's the last interview at 39 so what would you what would you tell yourself at you know you know if you was 40 you met your younger self who is just starting stage school stage school?

1:16:43like the kid? like six year old? yeah what would you tell that kid you know

1:16:46Mo Gilligan: when it comes to the success you've had the career you've had what would you tell that six year old you looking back who just had thoughts and dreams of conquering America?

1:17:01if I was telling them from today's point of view because people always ask me now like that question I'd say bro I've got nothing to offer you man the world is a wild wild west and I think the things that do remain is perseverance character and craft these are things that remain but outside of that I've got nothing to tell you about how to be a success you know like you know you know there's a great line in West Side Story the movie and he goes

1:17:26Mo Gilligan: man when I was your age and then the Jets go man you were never my age you know which means like I was not this age in this particular time and system you know i mean like so i wouldn't offer any advice in that in that sense but i would say if anything perseverance character and craft are the things that give have given me longevity do you know i mean and luck is a moment in time and you can you know i think luck circulates as one you can just bounce off that for a moment but then it's going to be something else do you know I mean how many people think that they can be you know do you like there's loads of people yeah but it's that it's that level of consistency and we know what the grind is like behind scenes you know you know what even the creation of this it's like you know there's what the world will offer you yeah and then there's what you demand for yourself and I think we're constantly pioneering yeah man which is very strange like you know you feel like you're gonna end up at the point where you feel like constantly pioneering and I've spoken to some of the greatest artists that ever, modern day artists that have lived and had conversations with people and you know, maybe that making it never really happens.

1:18:44There's making it moments. But something, if you're ambitious and you want to get after this life, I don't know if making it

1:18:54Mo Gilligan: is the end goal. Yeah, it's the end goal. This has been a pleasure, bro. Oh, man, thank you. Honestly, man, like your journey is so inspiring. And I know there'll be so many actors listening to this that are in that stage of their life where, you know, they're like, I want to do this and I want it to be a success. And hearing, you know, your journey of at the height of your career and saying, I want more, you know, I'm not going to rest on. I've just begun. When I look at that, I go, it's the end of that chapter. And this next chapter is just beginning. Yeah. And to actually be that which I believe God has put in my spirit to be.

1:19:41I was six years old when I decided to do this. It's for more than just my own egoic accomplishments. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you get what I'm saying? And like it's, this thing was, for me personally, it was written into my DNA, storytelling, encapsulating our experience on this planet and then exploring what it means to be a human being. Like, you know, I'm kind of like, I'm proper that side of the coin when it comes to artistry. You know, I'm a deep thinker and I don't, it might not even be acting. It might not even be like, those might be conduits to a greater journey. I don't know what that is.

1:20:22Yeah, man. I don't feel fully satiated in that arena, but there's something that's been programmed into my spirit. And the gift of my life has been knowing it early. And the challenge, you know, the hero's journey of my life has been, we're going to make you climb the mountain brick by brick, moment by moment, like, you know what I mean? And any, you know, actors, you know, I just think I'm an actor's actor. So like people know my journey, those that know know my journey and know that you know i've i've i've done i've done a lot to you know i mean and it's there's the sparkle when something happens and then it's like boom because a lot of people that i grew up with in that time you know you know save like you know femi's doing great but you know a lot of people have uh you have to grow otherwise you know you die you know yeah man what's the longevity of things why are you in it for you know i mean So I'm actually on this day at 39, a week before I'm 40, I'm deeply exploring those ideas.

1:21:26And I'm happy to have done it as honestly as I can on here with you, man. I appreciate you bringing me up.

1:21:32Mo Gilligan: No, listen, Amel, man. I hope it continues. And it's like you're saying, if your journey's starting now, I look forward to what's to come next. Do you know what I mean? Like, even you look at the roles that you've done. Do you remember when I see you in, what's it called? In Sower House. And I was like, bro, I see that film you down the other day, man. Which one was that? You're the soldier and you come back and the man's trying to kill you. Deadshot.

1:22:02Mo Gilligan: But bro, honestly, man, it's been a pleasure. You speak about longevity and I just pray that it continues, man. Because you really are shining a light on what it is to be an actor. but also go across the pond but also come back and still flourish. Do you know what I'm saying? And yeah, man. Trevor. Trevor, you. You is the one. That's the new one for me. I never heard anyone say that too much. That's my one. You. Well, you. Bravo. Thank you so much, man. This has been your beginning, middle and end. Thank you very much, my brother. Thank you, man. Appreciate you, man. Hey, what's up? Thank you so much for listening to the podcast today.

1:22:38Mo Gilligan: Now, a lot goes in to making each episode. I know you hear my voice but there's a team behind the scenes who helped make it and if you did enjoy it i'd really really appreciate if you could show the love to them by giving us five stars and if you also have the time please leave us a review it's always appreciated and we love reading the comments and of course we want to keep making it better thank you for listening and have a great day peace