Lisa Maffia: “I Didn’t Know Who I Was” | with So Solid Crew, Solo Fame & Finding Faith

0:00Mo Gilligan: Hey, what's up, people? My name is Mo Gilligan, and right now you're watching The Beginning, Middle and End with me, Mo Gilligan. And what a guest I have for you lovely people today. I regard this person as one of my personal superheroes. That's right. Growing up, this music group meant absolutely everything to me. She talks about early success as a teen, having success and going on shows like Top of the Pops and even winning a Brit Award with So Solid Crew. She's regarded as the first lady of So Solid Crew, having her own independent success and going on to do TV shows, reality shows. But she's also here to talk about her brand new book.

0:39Mo Gilligan: She's got two F's in her surname. Please welcome to the podcast, Lisa Mafia. I always get a list of people. And then the thing is, I always feel bad of asking people directly on Instagram. Why? Because it don't feel professional. Mo, you're Mo, you're Mo. I swear my life. You are Mo. You can ask anyone And they'll come No but the thing is It's like There's some Like One I have a bit of Imposter syndrome Because I'm like Okay I want to ask But at the same time I want to do it Through the right channels For the right channels If you got like But that's because That's where you're feeling as well Because it is a lot In it Once you get fame And you're in popularity Everyone wants you All of a sudden And it does get hard And also I want it to feel like Do you know Because sometimes it can feel Like a bridging thing In it Do me a fever Like jump on the fever Hey bro come on Hey give me a fever Jump on Yeah yeah what time Come on if you want Because you're good people When you're not a nice person Yeah Or when you haven't done enough For your industry Or you've grounded yourself You'll find people Won't do so much for you Yes But because you are you And the way you are And you're a nice person Your aura's good People will do it for you Don't feel no way Thank you very much man Clean up Because the last time We see each other Was in February We came to the screening When I'd done my special And stuff Yes Which was meant for me Because again Like we've never done A big screening I've never done anything Big like that Like that For my stuff Normally it's quite small Close friends Close family and stuff But one thing I've always liked About you Lisa Is that Like Of course Me You know me I'm a massive SoSoli fan I'm a massive Massive fan Just of all of you In it You and yourself Mega Harvey Romeo Everyone Black I love garage music To the death I swear I'll fight anyone Who disagrees Shut up What do you mean But one thing again You guys for me Growing up You guys are my superheroes Really?

2:27Mo Gilligan: I swear on my life What you guys were doing Sitting there witnessing it And Like that's why sometimes Like even having you on the pod today It's like Bro that Lisa Matthews On my On my podcast What you guys done Is like I don't think you realise There's so many of us That grew up I am starting to realise it But it is It's shocking Because we are just living it You don't really see it I could imagine like Especially when you're living it and stuff Yeah and whatnot. But, you know, growing up, I remember having, I couldn't afford to buy the album. Hey! Yeah, I couldn't afford to buy it. No war was for you.

3:04Mo Gilligan: So what it was, yeah, is that someone, I had a burnt copy, someone burnt it. And then, let me finish, let me finish, let me finish. I want my money! Let me finish. I want my money! I want my money! I want my money! But then, but then I bought it with my own money, right? Because this girl came into my drama class, which funnily enough, Ashley Waters went to the same school as me, right? I didn't know this either. Yeah, so Ashley Waters went to Pimlico, right? So we have the same drama teacher. And she was like, yeah, I used to teach Ashley. So we were like, oh, what? You taught Ashley? That's Ashley.

3:38Mo Gilligan: We know, obviously, that's Ashley D. That's Ashley D. And then one of the girls had the original album and it had the booklet. And you remember, when you pull out the booklet, the pictures, I said, I must, I must buy this. I have to get this. And I bought it. Is it tape or CD? CD I bought it on the CD And I was I cherished it Listen I know that CD Back to front I even know the skits Oh you look nice yeah I see you in the CD I know No you know all the skits in between Back to front But honestly like I was wanting to make sure that One like We have to give you your flowers as well God bless you You know one thing I always think about Especially when I listen to the music now You know And I feel like I don't know you but I know you doesn't make sense yeah you're mad isn't it I feel like that but I know exactly what you're doing now the same as seeing Beanie Man but it's almost like even when you're in the pod I'm like I know you I'm like yeah I know Lisa but I don't really know you but I do at the same time so it makes sense like when you don't come that's why I can be like yeah no no come to the screening yeah yeah I'm like oh yeah look after yourself I'm like and then one of my friends he was like Rob you really know Lisa and Kelly the Rock and I'm like yeah I kind of do but I don't at the same time I can't do that though, but in my head, I know them really well.

4:52Mo Gilligan: But for what you're seeing, I know them, isn't it? I know her. Yeah. That's all you need to know. I know her. But also, one thing I was thinking as well on the way here is like, you're like, you're the first lady of So Solid Crew. Like even your name, Lisa Mafia. That name. But it's my name. You know that's my name, right? It's my real name. Yes, my real name. I swear. It's my real name. Wow I know Because I was even Thinking on the way here I was like How did you come up With a name That's like Yeah Lisa I did try and change it But I'm not going to lie At the very beginning I tried to change it I tried I said to Meg It was to Meg and G And I said Boys I should have a stage name too And it was like Shut up No It sounds Shut up The coldest names Johnny Driller Lisa Mafia It sounds so real Don't even tell people That's your real name They're like Don't worry, Zay, it's whatever you want it to be.

5:51I think somewhere along the line, we got changed from 1F to 2Fs as well because of stigma. I don't know how true this is. This might be one of my uncle's bad jokes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's my real name. Oh, wow.

6:04Mo Gilligan: I want to thank you for coming on the podcast. Thank you for having me. So, you know, when you was like quite young. Yeah. You know, for how I know you, of course, from So Solid. what because obviously like you know when my um so when my teacher told me that Ashley went to the school and stuff again it was like oh right like he went to the school but then knowing that he was he was doing acting and stuff before and then you kind of make the correlation and you're like oh of course you then would get into music is a so what was that then for you was it the same path was it like was you writing from a young age as well music found me mode I did not ever have a Plan to get into music I wanted to be a photographer I wanted to be an architect I wanted to be a vet I wanted to be everything else But a musician I didn't It was never something That ever comprehended to me Even though When I was growing up My mum had put us into Dancing So I'm fully trained in Modern tap Ballroom Yeah And jazz Yeah yeah yeah All sorts of madness Bob Fosse and that Come on Jazz house Come on And I And I'm fully trained in that.

7:12So yeah, there's one bit of entertainment, you could say. And then growing up, we had a tape deck and I used to record myself with all my mum's old records and record myself for hours. That was my game. I used to record myself singing the songs and playing it back and then listening again and then getting another bit. So I guess music was within me without even knowing. And I'm like a jukebox as well. I'm mixed race. My white household was playing Pet Shop Boys, Doran Doran, Madness over there. Girls on film. Girls on film. And then over at my mum's house, it was more black culture in the sense of, even though my mum's white Italian, we were playing Bob Marley, Marvin Gaye.

7:59We were playing Dennis Brown. We was playing all these like old school reggae revival type music. So when I came into music, I was full of music. I knew everything, every song, every type of symphony in a sense. When I was asked to do Oh No, it was just asked to do it. G came to me.

8:22Mo Gilligan: What crap, man. G came to me. G-Man came to me and he said, Jason was like, you want to put your vocals on this track? And I was like, whatever. Yeah, all right, cool. Thinking nothing of it That track got signed Mo That was the beginning of Lisa Mafia That track is a fucking I don't even swear like that on a podcast But oh my gosh Just had to come out It means more You know some people have debated Whether that might be also one of the first grime tracks I know I've heard the debates I've heard that I don't know but I don't know either But we couldn't be classed garage Because there was nothing like real garage Like when we think of the two step Can you feel me?

9:06Yeah, yeah, yeah It wasn't, it wasn't We weren't, you know what I mean? We was not Garage But we was not whatever else existed then We were a And I think that's the same with the boys Is that our music backgrounds were so diverse They were so mixed up That when we came to making music It was just a jumble of everything we've ever heard Like, yes, put it all in there Get out from Jungle Just before it was Jungle And R &B and Bachman and Hip Hop So all of that came out in our music And I think that's what If we weren't grind We were definitely the So Solid sound We had our own genre

9:40Mo Gilligan: Yeah Because I think when you look back At the sound of Garage Like you had like You had like For example You might have like a group of female singers Like I bring you flowers Sweet female harmony You had like female singers Yes But then you had like guys Who were really singing Like a Craig David Craig David And they're not just singing They're telling you like It's what we've done on Monday Monday, Tuesday Tuesday Whole story What I always loved about Garage, right, is that it was at a time where like, unless a song charted on top of the pops, you got to see them. Yeah. But you didn't really see them.

10:13Mo Gilligan: There's still people who have songs this day. Yeah. And I don't know what they look, I can't tell you what they look like. I've done it before. It was so bad. I was booking Beelive. Yeah. Which is now a big, big, big MC for drum and bass, but he used to be in the Garage scene as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was booking him for about a year through my agency. I didn't know what he looked like. I got to IB for her And he's standing He's like You're right Lisa I was like You're right Nice to meet you He's like She is rude She has got problems She's got issues And I was like Who is that It's like B-Life I had to walk straight back Up to him and say Look I am so sorry I've probably met you A thousand times But I didn't know Because you don't You're right You don't see Certain artists You didn't get to see them Even worse So we didn't have Social media So the only time You're going to see them Is in that tape deck Pull out But it's so true Because unless also you had like, you know, you had a music video and your song was then playing on MTV Bass.

11:06Mo Gilligan: And it was also at a time where like not everyone even had MTV Bass. Because MTV Bass came before like Channel U. Channel U was free. Yes. And it was playing. The Box and that was before. The Box. The Box MTV. What was the other one? There was one more. And it was quite big. The Box MTV. MTV Bass. I feel like, no. There was one more. Smash Hits. No. Not that one. It's down the box route Like them Right at the bottom Yeah Oh yeah When you're talking about Chart Hits TV Chart Hits TV They are the days When you was getting near that bottom We'd korang Korang With a rock Korang The rocks Yeah If you make it on there You change the life How did you How did you then join SoSolid So before Oh No Yeah How did you join Was it just a collective of friends Was it How did that even start So I've known the So Solid Boys since I was 13 years old.

12:02I was a bit of a tomboy and a little bit of a tearaway being a naughty girl, lived in Brixton and had friends that knew friends from Clapham Junction. It's not that far, but I wasn't supposed to be up there at 13 years old. But I used to go up there with one of my friends. It was one of my besties. And we used to go up there and all the boys were there. She knew family friends. Her family was friends with Mega Man's family. Okay. And I knew Scat D face From Brixton And they were up there So we used to You know as a collective As children You come together And whatever state's The hottest We're going there So we used to hang around Up there That's how I originally Knew So Solid Then I had a baby And I went off On my merry way And then you kind of Come back round your friends You know your baby's Got a little bit older Now I'm having the odd Weekend out Mum we have the baby I'm now going back Out with my friends So Solid's back there Of course We're all the same Set of friends I started dating G-Man and then he was the one that asked me to go on Oh No.

13:01And that's how I became part of something that was already quietly happening because individually, a lot of the boys had come from sound systems. Romeo's uncle had a sound system and I think a couple of other boys did as well. And they were already emceeing and doing their thing. And we was called SOS before So Solid, but the name SOS was already taken by somebody in the industry. So we changed it to So Solid Crew. Was it SOS Crew? That's the right. Oh, my God. Yes. SOS Crew. Yes. It was called SOS Crew. I don't even remember who they are. Yes. Again, I probably met them a thousand times. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

13:40And then So Solid was formed, but it was already happening way before I was on the scene. I just got asked to do this track. And this track ended up being the track that crossed us from the underground to then becoming a bit more than that. Yeah.

13:55Mo Gilligan: Yeah. That's how I met them. And what a track it was. I came out to that song when I got to first ever do Live at the Apollo. Yes. Did you come out to it? Yeah. With all the smoke and all that stuff. I was like, I don't even care if these jokes are funny or not. Oh, listen. Let me see you. I said, whoo. People are going to know who I am. Vibes. Yeah. No, no. I made a, I weirdly made a point of like, whenever I would do like a comedy show, when I'm on my own show, I was like, yeah, we get to, because they were like, what song do you want to come out to this week? Like a boxing match, man. Yeah, I was always like, listen.

14:30Mo Gilligan: And the thing is, what I didn't know when you've got like songs that are published that you can use. That's right. When it comes to TV. So it has to be on like a certain list. That's right. And I always used to be like, what have we got? And he's so solid tracks. And he said, Is there anything? And then it was like, because there was one, I wanted to, no, one of them. What was the option? The first one was, I wanted to be talking the hardest, didn't it? Hey. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, come on, man. You must have that in the list. The anthem, the anthem. They was like, yeah, we don't have that one.

14:56Mo Gilligan: I don't think. I was like, all right, cool. And I said, you got any so solid? They said, yeah, yeah. And I was like, what ones have you got? They said, we've got Oh No. I said, you've got Oh No. Oh No, excuse me. That's perfect. Perfect. Perfect. So no, when I done Live in the Apollo, first time ever, I came out to that track. I need to watch that back. Yes, yeah, yeah. Thank you very much. No, I've got a lot of time for you guys. At least I got one pence for 80 on that. Yeah, listen. I must have played Bare royalties Because any time We done like Latest show I was like Can we come out to this Any of the So Solid tracks That were on the list Nine times out of ten I would come out I swear to you I've seen I've seen some pictures That were doing the rounds Recently of like When you guys were really young And I think you're on Oxford Street Oh yes Probito bags Yes Probito bags Yeah yeah yeah So was it around that time When Oh No came out When it felt like Was that even before then Do you know what the West Wing is my when I was writing my memoir vibe I was trying to get dates right do you know how much happens in the space of like two three years like there was so much that happened that even now looking back thinking when was that because it feels like it must have been before but it couldn't have been because we was having shoots so it must have been between but between Oh No and the success of 21 Seconds and the success of So Solid in general it was instant it was instant even though we had done so much and i think this is where why we it felt so instant is because we had done so much on the underground before oh no was massive before it was massive it was it was an underground smash hit yeah them lyrics like romeo's lyrics oh no that's the word that's his mc bars yeah yeah so he had been emceeing that for a good two years before that record had happened so everyone knew this record before it was even a record you know so by the time we had got established and those photo shoots like in oxford street it was happening we had already had like a hood fame yeah see because everybody established us i guess that's the thing as well because it was i feel like underground music traveled so quick because quick everyone's listening to pirate radio like myself i was in south so we would listen to you had like deja vu yes i was in to mainly flashback flashback i could getting the best reception on Flashback.

17:15Mo Gilligan: Flashback FM, Deja was alright, but Flashback, the signal, the alleged signal was close to my area. So that was, that was the best one I could get. Do you know what? One thing I rate about the people that used to rig those stations, do you know how dangerous that was? I know, I've seen, you know what? Have you seen that? I didn't know when I was that young. You'd hear rumours of like, oh, you go on the top But I remember seeing a documentary years ago And I was like This is what you lot went through For no money Because you know my head right I don't know why But I used to always picture I'm like yeah a pirate radio station But it's still a radio station But they're really putting up a signal Someone's converted over their house And people were telling me like Nah bro Like it's literally You're in like a maybe abandoned flat Or you're in like the block The dumps And you've got people trying to spit and it's all over.

18:13Mo Gilligan: I said, wow, I didn't know about that. And then there was a company that used to come for us. DTI. Oh my God, yes. DTI. Yeah, and they used to take the aerials down. Take down your rigs. Wow. Do you know how heartbreaking that is? That's now you have to find a new spot. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're onto you. If you're in that area, they're onto you. So that also meant if you were going there to go on radio, you'd have to go to some estate and climb up and all of this stuff. Well, it depends. So in a tower block You may have that On the roof On the side of the roof Around the back And it's dangerous To put the rig up But you might be in Someone's flat Seven floors back down again Oh okay Yeah scary stuff Yeah But honestly That's the graft That it took To establish yourself Yeah yeah And so Solid did that We ended up having Our own station For a while Yeah Is that incriminating?

19:03Sorry Nah just say it

19:04Mo Gilligan: Allegedly Say it allegedly man Allegedly Yeah listen You guys been through A lot anyway man It's alright It's at least

19:12Mo Gilligan: So in terms of like when when 21 seconds had blown up because I remember it so vividly. I remember going I remember I remember hearing the track. Yeah. Then I remember seeing it was a music video for it. What was it like even making that music video? Because I'll be honest, we had never seen a video like it. Quite like it. I don't think it's really been replicated to that level. I'll say it. I don't know where you guys was on the top of a mountain. there was lightning there was fencing there was people trying to get in the fence who done the backflip? Harvey Harvey came over the fence Harvey on the helicopter on the side of the minute no who came out the helicopter someone came out the helicopter someone backfliped over the fence I remember that I don't remember there was so much going on so much but as like as a song that like it really like I would say for you know for myself I was quite fortunate because I'm from London and I knew I knew about you before you know 21 seconds But for the nation, that was for some people who don't live in London, that's the first time seeing you guys.

20:15Mo Gilligan: Talk me through that music video. Did you guys know what that was even going to be like? What was it like even for you as well? Do you know what? It was crazy for me. I'll start with myself because I can only speak for myself. I don't know how the boys were feeling. And I always say that. And lots of stories in my book, they are stories that we all experience one thing, but we all have a different opinion. We probably saw all different things because we'll be on different sides of the room. So with me with So Solid video, that was the first time I put on a dress because I was not trying to be a girl.

20:48I was trying to be one of them. I was so tomboyish. I was so tomboyish and it was how I grew up. And going into that video was my first glamorous time. And I felt like a million dollars. And coming out of that dressing room dressed like that for the first time, every single one of the boys were like oh my day lisa where did you come from because it was so shocking to see me so girly with all the hair and makeup and and heels and a dress they were like nah lisa really turned up for this video so that was really a good boost for me and it was actually the very first time i felt really proud of myself within the music industry thinking i can actually do this because I didn't go into music and my book will tell you that I did not have any plan to be a musician at all so that was my initial feeling watching that video back blew my mind yeah I was a fan of So Solid because it was so it was the most incredible well-thought put together video to give everyone an individuality yeah um everyone it was a crew that was all representing one thing, which was so solid.

22:04But everyone was so, had their own lane in that video. And it really was well put together that it really, truly established who So Solid was.

22:14Mo Gilligan: No, because I think everyone had their identity. And I think going back to what I was saying, why you guys were like my superheroes, because everyone had like, you know, like Romeo was the ladies man. Yeah. Like Mega Man had the bowler hat. Do you know what I mean? Like, I can't lie. I even ended up getting slits in my eyes because of Harvey. I can't lie. I was like, Harvey's got slits. I must get some slits too. That's a headshot, I need that. Like everyone had such an iconic look. Hence why I go back to like, you guys were like superheroes because it wasn't even, yes, we can go back and say like, Oh No Might Have Been The First Grime Tune.

22:51Mo Gilligan: It was seeing a music video that, again, it's like, we'd only ever seen the Americans do that. So like to see a UK group, again, also, I was like I'm from South These sort of from South too Because you know You start listening to Graham You're like well Everyone's kind of from East London Everyone's from East London yeah So to know these lot are from South Gave you a bit more ownership A little bit as well Yeah we own that too So like when you start getting The success of like 21 seconds Because it felt like The song Lasted for like 20 years 20 years Like it never felt like 21 years Not 21 seconds But you know like a song Will kind of be like Oh okay cool it dips It dips yeah It never felt like that.

23:31But I think that's what it was. Every artist brought something new. Like, you was waiting for it. Like, what's going to be next? What do you mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What did he say? It was something you could watch like a movie over and over again. Yeah. You know, we actually launched it on the cinema. Is it? Yeah, we had a launch party. In the cinema? For 21 seconds? Yeah. Really? We went to a cinema. We went to a cinema, had a thousand seat cinema in West End, in Leicester Square. Is it? Everyone came down to watch the premiere of 21 Seconds Video. No way. Because it was such a movie.

24:04Mo Gilligan: Oh my God. I didn't know that, you know. I'm so jealous because I was like, if I was this age now, I would have been there. Wow. We had a lot. And I say, this is why I say, I think it was all those little things that made us who we are today. because the graft and the marketing and everything behind it, all the plan, it just came together so much bigger than another British artist. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Probably wouldn't have done what we did if we didn't do all of that as well, you know? But I think the beautiful thing is, and I've always thought this with you guys, is that as much as you are a collective, you're also like, you've also got your own individual personalities.

24:48Mo Gilligan: Yes. You've all had, you know, separate success. It's not like it has to be the group or nothing. But what was it like for you at that time? Because you're the only female in the group as well. And again, go back to it. You know, you're the first lady of So Solid crew as well. And what I also knew as well, I was like, we got the members that we all know. But there was loads of people. Unless you get that leaflet, yeah? With the album. Oh yeah, because everyone's faces were in there. Everyone would be in it. Yeah, I forgot about that. And I'd be like, oh, who's this? You know, we had like collector's cards as well.

25:21Like Pokemon cards. You collect the cards with the faces.

25:24Mo Gilligan: So there was other people in the group and you were like, because then there was like, there's 21 people in the group. People used to say this in school. It was like, 21 seconds is a metaphor. Because there's actually 21 members. And you're like, rah. But also, we didn't know it back then. We're like producers, DJs, Oxide Neutrino are kind of like. Yeah, they are. They're so solid. Yeah, they're so solid crew as well. They just branched off and done. as a solo yes yes so they would yeah they did it too so then what is it like for you during that time where you got success you've got money you've got fame and you are the only lady in the group what was that like because i know you said it happened quite fast immediate yeah but what was that like um so i was at home at the very beginning because i was saying i was a tomboy as complete tomboy so it was like norm to me and these people were my friends we weren't i didn't get brought into so solid and so solid was strangers they were my friends childhood friends so i felt at home but going out solo is when it really did make a difference because then i had no one there because so solid we're doing so solid stuff and lisa mafio is now doing lisa mafio stuff so for the first time in music learning to become a musician as i said it was something wasn't in my dna naturally to be a pop star i didn't know how to do i didn't necessarily plan for it either yeah so learning and doing it alone was very lonely i say i give massive thanks to my glam squad because one day helped me to explore my more feminine side um and becoming a solo artist in that in that sense as well but also um i give thanks to them because they were like two mums to me they was able to you know if i wasn't if i was feeling very anxious about something I'd usually turn to one of the boys and they would give me the boost I needed.

27:16I'll hold my hand in some sense. But I didn't have that anymore. But I did have my glam squad. And I truly believe if I didn't have Chinnere, Chi Chi was my hairstylist, and Kim Menzi, if I didn't have them too, my hair and makeup, I don't know if I would have survived the first year of my career.

27:34Mo Gilligan: Yeah. And it was a lonely place, but it was also that time where I started to learn that, girl, you got this, you can do this. and certain things like getting census page spread in Vogue. Wow. I was like, Mario Testino. Remember, I wanted to be a photographer. So I had focused on who's the biggest photographers. I knew Mario Testino from young. When I got shot by him for London Vogue. No one could speak. Shut him up. So it was such a blessing. It was such a blessing. One, to be shot by the biggest photographer, Mario Testino. but also to be on the centre page of Vogue, chat to me nice. Come on.

28:15Chat to me nice.

28:16Mo Gilligan: That's why you got two F's in the mafia. All right.

28:22Mo Gilligan: I always look back at So Solid Success because it's one, again, it's a pivotal time in my teenage years, but also is it a time where when you think of music, you have a lot like live music, like things like Top of the Pops. Yes. And stuff as well. CD UK. CD UK as well. And you guys are there But you're not there as a Okay like You know this is a garage song It's a good single But you guys had tracks But what was also some of those moments Like going on iconic shows Like Top of the Pops So the earliest one I do The one I was most proud of Should I say Is Top of the Pops Because you've watched that as a kid Time and time and time again And you've seen all your favourite stars Brace those stages So to actually be on there With your boys that you grew up with That you didn't expect to become a musician Then you're on top of the box And mum's watching you from home Was that the stuff that started making Your family proud That's the stuff that made my family realise I'm becoming a pop star Because before that it was like Just them kids Making all that music upstairs Now it's like Oh okay Now my mum's not telling me to get a normal job like anymore she's like just get a normal job yeah why do you want to stress yourself out doing this music thing it's not paying you just get a normal job now i'm on top of the box mom's like that's my daughter she's on she's on top of the box i can't imagine what that must be like as a as an artist because i think there's there's always a thing that we all do in entertainment where your parents are like oh oh like i get it now it's working yes again when i got to do the videos back in the day and I'm messing around a couple of cans.

30:09Mo Gilligan: My mum was like, oh, that's good. And I say to my mum, I say to my mum, I was like, oh, mum, this is when I was living at home, so I was like, oh, mum, look, Ian Wright followed me. Mum's like, she doesn't get it. She's not understanding it. And I'm like, mum, let's drink. He liked the video. Mum's like, I don't know who that is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then it's like, I think once I'd done something that was on. What was it? I don't even know what it was. Because it's got to be something they recognise, isn't it right because even when I got to like a real good place in my career there was stress of course there's stress there's always stress like money don't make no difference to that mum so when the stress happened she's like again she came back with that yeah but just make life easier for yourself yeah because they just see it as you bring your kids up you work you go to work that's your it's normal life this all seems wild to them yeah like getting a mortgage my mum was like excuse me why would you want that my mum got mad worried yeah yeah are you sure Are you sure?

31:05But what if you, I said, yeah, but you sell it, mum. That's what happens. If you ain't got to afford it anymore, sell it, whatever profit you got and pay.

31:14Mo Gilligan: You got to be moving to somewhere, boy, you'd be like, why would you go there? Why pizza, bro? Exactly that. I was, listen, my first flat with my daughter was in Kennington. That's 15 minutes from Brixton. My mum said it's too far. That's, yeah, but you should ask for something in Brixton. in Brixton you should stay in mum I don't want to stay in Brixton yeah they bothered me Kennton yeah but that's really far mum it's I could run within half 45 minutes do you know what I mean people forget that like you got south but you got like the kind of inner city south inner city everywhere's close yes Brixton's right next to Kennton Kennton Stockwell but in my mum's mind it's not Brixton that's too far so again I could totally understand that when I was getting mortgages and travelling my mum was like worried for her baby girl like what is she doing this is crazy and then anytime I showed any stress she's like get her out of it now she needs to get out of this now sell the house move back into a council property you'll be fine it's easier it's easier you know what I mean so uh the growth um and my career has taught me a lot and going solo being the only girl that built up a massive resilience and and just strength and I'm good thanks for that now you know one of I think the most iconic moments I guess also for yourself and for you know so Solid Crew was the Brit Awards now I was really fortunate enough to host the Brit Awards right and do you know the only reason why I bring it up because when when I got to set and we'd done a rehearsal yes And I'm seeing the levels.

32:59Mo Gilligan: And I'm like, whoa. This is a real product. I've never been more nervous than the opening night. You never look nervous on camera. I wanted to ask you that. Do you ever get nervous? Because I still do. Do you know what it is, right, Lise? I think is that thing where if I know it's like, well, this is on me. Like it's my show. If I say the wrong line, it's on me. It's on me. Because it's the Brits, it's on me. but it could be on this person too who I might introduce or say their name wrong yeah it's the wrong name and I feel like as well because being a young black man hosting it yeah there was this like oh you know like oh we haven't had a black person host this in whenever times so I know I've got this this like the black community like come on Moe bro you got this do us proud man we got you man like we've got you and I'm not saying that there's a community out there who's not supporting there's white people Asian people Supporting me too Because they're like Oh I know this guy I feel like We've grown up In the same area But then like you know There's also a A group of people Out there that's like I want this guy To fail Badly I can't Stand this guy Stand him And I know that Like The people rooting you on Are like Come on bro Come on You got this You got this You're still like Come on bro Because every Like The one thing I'd say About the black community When you're on That pedestal Which is like you know, mainstream TV, it's that thing where they're like, yeah, I'm tuning in just to watch you.

34:29Mo Gilligan: I don't really watch these shows like that. It's so true. It's so true. I don't really watch this show. I've done shows and I know my friends, they don't really watch it. They would never watch that. But because I'm on it, they're like, yeah, Antiques World Short, I don't really deal with that. But I see you selling a painting, I'm going to tune in. But I think for me, it was the nerves of, I'm like, wow. And then a part of me was like, thank God I don't have to be here getting an award or performing. Because I know what it's like in the music industry when you've got the record labels, you've got the tables.

35:05Mo Gilligan: And this was at a time also where I think if, was it at Earl's Court Arena? What, the Brits that we did with the cars or the ones that we won? The ones we've done it twice. The ones, the white suits. Okay, so that's the one we won, right? That's the one you won where you all went on stage. Yes Was that Elle's Court? I think If I remember yes I think it was It was massive Yes Where did you do it? Yeah yeah yeah So I'd done it the O2 Oh of course you did But I don't think it would have been O2 When you guys went Because O2 would have been Millennium Dome It would have been quite fresh them times It was even I want to say Where was the other place All the award shows were?

35:41Mo Gilligan: Might be Royal Abel Royal Abel Hall But was that Brits Or was that Moe? I don't know I don't remember Look at me old brain I remember when you guys won it though Yes That for me Yeah Is one of the most Iconic moments In music history I don't care what Anyone says You can debate me If you want yeah Like I said I'll down the hill For UK Garage And so sorry for you Because One And there's tons of artists I've said this before When you guys won Yeah We won We won Yeah I hear this Wow Like We're seen And also We're seen on a plateau Where like You guys were all wearing All the white suits All the white suits It was so cold.

36:21Mo Gilligan: It was one of the most iconic moments. Do you know this? You know, Do you know that's the bits I do see? That's the bits I do see. It was so amazing, you know. For what it is, it's like, look at us. We were ballsy, man. Oh my God. We really was ballsy. We just, we done something so extreme each time just to make sure we got noticed because we were definitely, no, you couldn't miss us. What was it like at that time when you won though? It was so exciting. Because we all went on stage. I remember it like it was yesterday. You all went on stage. That was the things I was like, how did we get away with that?

36:50He had champagne and stuff. How did he get away with that? But again, it wasn't being done. And we weren't not going to do it. We were going to be as authentic as possible. Be us. When we used to go to parties, right? And this is why I think it used to happen at a war show, that we would just stay us. We weren't going to try and be demure because they say so. No, we're going to be us. When we used to go to a party on the weekend, there would be a convoy of about 40 cars standard standardly yeah like standard all of us are going like everyone's going we're going there yeah we're going to everyone and their mum and their sister would come with us and it would be a convoy it was such an adventure but we as adults doing adult things having cars instead of push bikes yeah we're now not on skates or skateboards we're in in convoy we used to go in convoy to a party so of course if we're at the Brits we're all going on and we're bringing our cousins with us too because they're part of so solid this is a movement as you say one thing we would show that we're doing this for all of us we you can make it too yeah that was our message throughout yeah

38:04Mo Gilligan: did you have an attitude I did I had three like an idiot wow what a ticket no it's not man listen I don't even realise I had three because I had to convert where I had a hard top and then I had a left hooker because we got them before they got to the UK. That car, no one in the black community would have bought that car if it was not for so solid crew. So it's putters now. If you've seen how putters they are. No, no, no. What are they doing down there? Do you know what? Weirdly, yeah. Obviously, once you get older, you can have your own stuff in it. Yeah. But there's still a part of me that's like, I still want a beauty team.

38:35I might want one of those one day.

38:36Mo Gilligan: I've been in one, like ever in my life. You're still on the floor though. Why are we so low? I know, but it's the fact that it was cool the thing is yeah it's because one you didn't it looked like a car from the future yes it did it did yes you're right the fact that you guys had them listen that car black people love we love BMWs we're like Mercedes yes and Audi TT yes that's it what car is it it's not an A3 what are you getting it's a TT one of them oh man ah you guys I remember even growing up I was like yeah when I'm older what car are you going to get I did feel Audi TT I was very boyish when it came to cars as well so all of my cars I've never had a dainty girly car I've always had the big boy car like with the most noise again the tomboy thing and with TTs when they brought out the road start and it was like the Quattro it's like yeah man give me two of those there is no way I'm telling you you I don't know how many I'd love to know like because you know like now you get like brands that would be like, yeah, like we're involved in the track and stuff.

39:44Mo Gilligan: Like, did you guys have a relationship? You didn't? No. We used to go there with our hard-earned cash and just buy it. Buy it again and again and again. One time there was a time. So there was a time it all changed. So there was an Audi place that we used to all go to get our cars. And we used to just literally walk in there with our debit cards and put our card down and we'd drive off the car. Wow And then this new rule came in That if you walk into any car showroom More than£3 ,000 They're calling it a pop-up Ah yes Because it's obviously about laundering Which I totally get But ours was our cash We was rich We had money So we couldn't no longer do that But there were ways We had a relationship in that sense No discounts or that I don't ever remember getting a discount I think I had about six TTs in total Off of them over my time We didn't get a discount But we definitely couldn't leave with the car still Is it?

40:37So they worked it out for us

40:39Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah To pass them Black barriers Listen, black people During that era And the Audi TT Like this Lots Like this boy Oh man So going back to like When you won that Brit Award Yes Did it feel like in music In terms of the mainstream side Yes You guys were like Okay now we're here We've arrived We've established Yeah But did you feel seen though as well? Any awards you feel seen Because that's what's beyond Remember we didn't have social media So we don't have anyone telling us what's what. Only the charts, the radio charts and award shows. That was where you got your accreditation for. And we did feel very special because the Brits weren't like the Mobos.

41:20Brits, you had real pop stars. And I mean, well-established pop stars. Westlife was in the same arena as us, winning awards, up for Bay Awards. We were up for every award possible. So it was such a credit To who we were So solid And a notoriety That You can play alongside In the same playground As all these pop stars Yeah yeah So I did I felt like that Well I don't know What the boys thought They probably thought Idiots we deserved that And I'm joking But I definitely was like Was there anyone

41:53Mo Gilligan: That you met at the Brits And you was like Oh my god Every single person Because they were pop stars Yeah They were pop stars They were pop stars No but the Brits I get it though It's that's a big arena. Like, that is a big arena. With Mobos, okay, I was blown. My mind was blown when I saw Diana Ross on the front seats. Oh, that is the one. Her, and, so, Diana Ross, Whitney and Bobby in Vegas. I went to the Miami Music Conference and they were sitting at the Versace Hotel and I tried to take a sneaky picture with a Polaroid camera, by the way. turn and take a sneaky picture and she saw me and she said girl get from behind there and come say hello I'm like oh my god that's my way I literally wanted to pass out I wanted to pass out that was the that was the only three people that have ever been so starstruck is it called that?

42:53yeah yeah yeah starstruck jeez those and that's Diana Ross she was so soft and I could cry now because it was amazing. That's the three. And that's when, when you go to the Brits, you are passing people that you would never meet. Never. I was a fan.

43:13Mo Gilligan: Yeah. It's truly one of those award shows that we have in this country. It's our Grammys, if you want to call it that. It is. And essentially to kind of put your mark on it, to even go is one thing. And I remember when, again, I started doing the videos and people got invited. I was like, why did I get invited? Maradie's not invited, you know? That's how I feel now, Mo. But when I got to host it, yeah, yeah. Because you know, you're like, this is going to stop someday, isn't it? It's going to stop someday. I'll take you. Jeez, Liz. What it is. Keep saying no. Nah, I'm good, you know. Nah, I'll take you.

43:45I try and get my email in early, but it still doesn't work, yo. It doesn't work. Nah, sorry. Nah, you're good, you know. Totally sold out.

43:52Mo Gilligan: And then you start, you had your own success as well. Yes. Do you know what I mean? You start putting out your own tracks. Do you know what I mean? Lisa, mafia I'm a soldier, I'm a soldier So like, what was Did that feel like The pressure had been lifted Or did it feel like more pressure? Because I guess More pressure Was it more pressure? It was because it comes so soon After So Solid I was signed in 2002 We were established in 2001 It was instant Oh wow So as I say I didn't ever plan to be a pop star So I was learning on the job Yeah um my training days were with so solid by the time I was solo there was no one there to train me so it was learning on the job and I it was tough because now there was this massive expectancy from me as a superstar pop star and I weren't I wasn't mo and there's so many stories about that how it was how tough it was because I I had to find my way my own route my own sound my own everything but i had come from so solid crew that were well grained and experienced in the sense they knew about music and how to put lyrics together and tracks together and a vibe i was learning from the boys and then i was solo so even though they did help me with my album and again there's lots of stories about how that album materialized but with that album i was i I wasn't ready to be a musician because I hadn't found who I was.

45:24I was just the girl in So Solid, the angelic voice in So Solid, the softer voice than all these guys. I didn't know Lisa Mafia yet, you know. My tracks were, in the end, what they were because of my music background. And as I was saying, I was very much a jukebox. I was very well-grained in lots of different styles of artists. but I still hadn't found me until all over. And all over was, I was put together by myself, JD and Mega Man. And that's when I was like, ah, I like this.

45:59Mo Gilligan: You found your voice yourself. I like it. Yeah. And then I, again, I was still had to produce an album within the next nine months. So it's not very long to find exactly who you are. But it was a lot of fun. Yeah. And I give thanks every day to it because Mo, Mo, I've made one album in 25 years and I'm still here working nonstop every weekend, having so much fun. Made lots of tracks for other people's albums with other artists, for other artists. Solo stuff as well. But I've never made another album. And yet I've had a really, really fast paced, really busy career for 25 years. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

46:41Mo Gilligan: Because even like something that you posted recently when you're on TV shows and appearances. exactly and you also spoke which i really rated you as well like you spoke about your experiences of being on some of those shows yeah um where you're like you know they tell you what to say and yeah what to do um what did what was your experience like being on some of those shows was it just like well i'm here you know it's my reality tv shows you mean that sort of stuff like reality or like whether you're on like panel shows jonathan ross type of things and things like that yeah yeah yeah what was it like yeah how did you find it because i guess it's like Do you know why I ask?

47:16Mo Gilligan: Because it's like, for me as a comic, my role is only to just be funny. So if I get asked to go on any panel show, they're like, they're asking me as a comic, be funny. And I've, you know, you do the live shows and I'm like, cool, got a laugh there, got a laugh there. I know what it's going to be like in the edit. Don't you think that's the hardest thing? Comedy, comedy is tough. Do you know what it is? I think for me, it's all I've ever known. So it's like second nature. Your timing is, yours is on point, obviously, but that must be harder than performing. No, no, no. Like panel shows are hard.

47:44Mo Gilligan: But I think panel shows, if you ever see any of those comics that are on there regularly, they are the creme de la creme because you have to be so quick. Timing, yeah. And, you know, it might be you've got someone that's a regular on there who is another comedian. I'm a comic and it might be a musician or an actor as well. And you have to find your way in because a lot of the audience I've always found with panel shows, They kind of come for maybe the host Or the regular people that are always on there Essentially So with me being on it People are like, who's this guy? To get in there Yeah, I remember going on You know the show, what's it called again?

48:22Mo Gilligan: The Apprentice, You're Fired So you've got The Apprentice goes on Then when it's finished You've got one that comes on BBC Two That's called The Apprentice, You're Fired So that's where we talk about Oh, we've seen it Like the aftermath of the show Yeah, yeah So that's the first one I've gone on Oh my God Literally, man And I was done. What happened? They didn't laugh at anything. Is that at? Like, I'll be like, yeah. I'll be in sales. Because it's like, da-da-da-da-da. Wait. Nothing. All right. I mean, I didn't even promote it. I didn't tell no one to watch it. I'm shutting up. No, that did not happen.

48:57Mo Gilligan: Oh, man. But what? Do you know who that was? What was it like for you, though? Because you're a musician. So almost like if you're saying that there's things that people are telling you to say and do, That must feel also like a bit uncomfortable But also you're like, ugh It was hard because by the time I went solo So Solid would ban, you know Like there was a lot of things happening About So Solid and the music You know about that So by the time I came to my solo deal And actually now promoting the music A lot of the times They were telling me not to represent So Solid Management and stuff Were telling me don't go into the conversations About So Solid Because it'd be negative And I used to be like But that's bad I'm not going to do that I'm not going to do that No I'm not going to come up here If they want to chat about So Sully I'm going to chat about it But that became really hard Because it started to be all about So Sully Not about the record I'm trying to promote here Or even yourself as well Or myself Right putting myself on the map But if there was one thing that I give thanks to my management for They had made us household names At the very beginning of our careers So they set us on the likes of Jules Holland or Jonathan Ross, never mind the Buzzcocks and things like that, to establish us as household names.

50:14So by the time I was going back out there with my solo stuff, it was easier for me. I was well trained. I felt a bit more like I could handle their little bit of a lash out at So Solid. I'd be like, oh, yeah, really? Minds, I'll send a banjo ass, mate, and just get on with the conversation and everyone will laugh. So now I'm introducing this, me as I'm brave and I'm bold and I'm, you know, I can handle you. Don't think you're going to get past me. And the audience were on my side now because you're like, leave her alone. Look at her. She's only little. Do you know what I mean? So I found, I found my lane in by being just really bold and handling it in the best way I could by being a bit snappy, a little bit, a bit edgy.

50:57Don't try and act like the sweet girl all the time because they will walk all over you. You have to give it back as well. Yeah, I was trying to give it back as much as possible.

51:04Mo Gilligan: And I guess this is also a time of the height of the tabloid papers as well. Yes. That was our social media, honey. Yeah. And I can't imagine what that was like for you, you know, and for the rest of the guys. Like you're saying, like when you were banned, but like, you know, you're going on a show. And you know when things are tongue-in-cheek and you laugh and you go, ha, ha, ha, ha. But you're like, are you talking to me? Not funny, actually. Like, are you talking to me? You're talking to me, fucking prick. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Exactly that moment. Exactly that. I think that is a part of our background and our DNA.

51:36Mo Gilligan: Yes. When we're on this stuff and you realise you're like, like, guys, I know I'm here for the banter and I can take it. But just remember, I can give it back too. I can do it too. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to give it back. But sometimes if you feed in, don't you think that you're giving them exactly what they want and making you out to be something? You're absolutely not. Do you know what it is? I think if you're able to laugh at yourself in a way that you're like, I can be self-deprecating. I can take the piss out of myself. I'm not that serious. Me too. But also, I'll be a good enough sport that I'll take it on the chin if it's funny.

52:10Yeah.

52:10Mo Gilligan: But if it's a tack on my personality or my character, then I'm like, nah, don't do that though, man. Don't do that though. That's not cool. Do you know what I mean? I was just trying to bust joke. Yeah. If you had a genuine, I'm like, right, that's kind of funny. I'd laugh at that. I'd laugh at that, yeah. Because I'm used to that. I'm used to being with my friends who take the piss, but now it's like, comedy back yeah I don't what are you doing man do you know what I mean be careful have you a little bit myself yeah don't do that I'm one to say are you alright

52:36are you alright I don't think he's alright

52:41Mo Gilligan: that's that line is so lonely yeah you've got to get quick in there as well they say something it's true he's like is he alright are you alright you have to you've got to do it immediate get them back where it hurts me. Wait, what did I say? No, you know. I'm just checking. I didn't think it was all right saying things like that, but it's okay. It's not because you're okay. No, I'm pretty well. No, you know what you said though. Don't do that. What? Me? Me? Were you surprised? Exactly. It's fine. You started, you mentioned just a minute ago when you started doing like reality TV as well. Yeah.

53:18Mo Gilligan: How did you find that world? Because I guess that must be a bit more, even more exposing. It's even more exposure. So I only ever took on, And still now, I'd only ever take on things that are very much suited to me in the sense of not so much about just personality and how you handle things and psychologically handle things and pressured. I'd rather do something active. Like I've done the games and I've done coach trip, active, adventure. That's me all day long. I always say, give me SAS. I'll try my best. I will do this. Yeah, SAS with his wings. Yeah, like I'm on that, you know. They don't want to activate me.

53:56Like I don't want to be sitting there just bored because I will get bored and probably cuss out someone and everyone will hate me. Are you all right? Is he all right though? Has he got a problem though? Can somebody ask him, is he okay? So I'd rather not put myself in that situation. And I think a lot of people in those, on reality TV in general, they are looking for TV gold moments to promote their self or win or they know negativity sells to the outside world. I'm not trying to be negative I'm not a negative person I'm a fun light-hearted person I can get on with absolutely everyone I can't say there's anyone I absolutely hate out there I dislike you and I think you're weird but I definitely don't hate no one you know so when I do reality TV I do go for that but I have realised one thing Mo which is sometimes a little bit disheartening is that I get chose last and I don't know whether that's And I'm still working it out because I'm waiting for the next TV show to see what it's like, see what the lineup's like.

54:57I don't know if it's you're the last because you're black or it's last because you're a woman. Is it last because your age is the last? I don't know. I don't know what the last is, but I do find I am that token person in whatever frame that is. And that's disappointing sometimes. But I still like the check, honey, of course. But I also like the fact that you can show people who you are more in reality TV. Because not a lot of people get to see who the real person is. And as I say, I love to have a little laugh. I'm all about banter and I'm all about having fun, adventure. I'm quite resilient and I'm tough as a woman.

55:34And they wouldn't expect me to. I think some people, they don't expect you to be that tough. And I like to show that. And I also like to encourage because a lot of people get in their 40s. I'm 47 now. and I think a lot of people get in their 40s and they think that life is over and if you aren't married or had children or settled down or got the big house massive career and you're heading towards retirement then life is over but it really isn't and I really want a lot of my friends are quitting on themselves and I want to be that advocate for them to say well Lisa did it so I'm going to try it too and yeah there's lots of stories about my adventures in there as well because I have had a great life but I think sometimes it's what you make it yeah and your

56:14Mo Gilligan: book is out this is the first one right yes you you got the first i swear on my life you got the very first can you sign it for me as well yes oh thank you so much man we'll find the sharpie or two f's i'll get two f's please okay um before you go um you've had like an amazing career at such a young age as well you know you're still massively successful um one thing that i've always really admired about you as well like you're you're you're you're very much an open book on social media and I've seen the way that like religion has played a part in your life as well you know you're very open you know I've seen on your socials where you you know you got baptized I did re-baptized second time around yeah yeah felt even better does that give you a level of sense um of stability in your life now when it comes to you know you you kind of had a career at such a young age where I guess you've been able to do the things so early on in life that by the time you get older, you're like, yeah, been there, done that, seen that person.

57:12Mo Gilligan: But I could only relate in a way that like for myself when it comes to, you know, giving my life to Christ and religion and God. And just the way that I even approach my life, which is my work life. Yes. But my away life. Away life. Do you know what I mean? A level of stability that I didn't know even exists. That's more exciting a little bit. Do you know what I mean? I remember like When I Like for example So I'd go to church With my girlfriend And there was one Sunday She couldn't come So I was like I'm going to go by myself And I'd never been by myself Did you see it On the back of the front And I'm like No no I'm sitting in the middle But again it's like You know you go to church And you're like Yeah can I sit No sorry Someone's sitting there I'm like Oh Oh I thought I thought everyone was All that friends Everyone's friends Alright Alright cool Cool cool But the girl was starting She goes Oh no no It's just my partner's there but you can sit there you can sit there alright cool because church starts and he's like say hello to someone next to you hello you alright yeah you alright hi what do I do here but again it's like if that was me going somewhere I don't know cinema or whatever then in your head you're just are you alright what do you mean I can't sit there what do you mean but I guess it's like church gives you a stability of just like you know it's alright man I come to worship I come to praise the Lord you know what I mean it's that seat taken and church does that to you.

58:37Mo Gilligan: It's fine, my bad, my bad. So how is that like, you know, for you having that balance in your life? Church life was something I had from very young because, not because of family, because of friends, because all of my black friends were forced to go to church every weekend. They did not want to go, but I would be the friend. I'll come with you. I don't know what it was, but I always had a connection with the church, whether it's listening to those stories in Sunday school whether it was learning about just worship and the songs in the beginning yes give me some of that please when I was young like seven eight years old I used to say mom can I please go to church with my with uncle Barry which was my friend Lynette's and Verona's dad I wanted to go to church so bad then I got older then I become a teenager then for some reason you only ever pray to God when you're in trouble please don't let that happen please god please but you're not actually going to church or worship him yeah then i got my mom got sick my mom was diagnosed with terminal cancer and that is now 14 years ago and the day she got diagnosed i could not for a second think all i know is i needed to get to church i needed to get to church immediately mo i could not think oh sorry i couldn't think about anything else i went into a church and i went straight to the front didn't know not one person in there and i was on my knees praying hard please do not let this take my mom please and for the next three four years i kept changing different church that's another thing when you find your church Changes everything Changes everything And I kept going Different churches And then I walked In the doors Of Citygate Church In Beckenham And my mind Was blown I said Oh I'm home Find your home I'm home And my mum's still here By the way Don't get it twisted She She didn't go nowhere Maybe them prayers Really did work He was listening hard Because the way I prayed Every day Every Sunday And every day For hours On end for years and my mum's still here so once you find your church it changes everything that's that's a given and I was baptized very young but as I said I had this on off relationship that with God that when I'm in trouble that's the only time I prayed when I needed something that's the only time I prayed it's liberties you're taking liberties Liz my mum survived the first round of chemo and stage terminal cancer turned into remission and i was like how did that happen that must have been god immediately i stayed in that church and i said nope that's it immediately i wanted to get baptized but for some reason something kept saying to me you're not ready i think that's what we tell ourselves that you're not worthy or ready for whatever it is not only just religion or or christianity or whatever religion you're into you sort of tell yourself you're not ready you're not worthy whether that's an opportunity for yourself or treating yourself a bit better or working out whatever it is you always put it to the side because it's something you think you're not worth or worthy of that's the same what was happening with religion and i just and i was so confused because every time mom got better i slowly strayed away back from the church but then i was like not this time least because i don't want it coming back so i stayed in the church and that's what built my relationship with god and that has completely changed my life because how grounded i feel about things now whether it's money success i know i don't need any of it it will come because it's meant for me it will come because i deserve it i know my worth better because of the church i know my strength better because of the church and i know the power of prayer because of church so and church can be anywhere i think a lot of people get it twisted that you think going to a church is church but church is is you coming together with a group of people and praying so i feel empowered by christ yeah and that's a good place to be oh lisa man this is i'm so good this has lived up to all my expectations of you know any interview that i get to do but most importantly like i think your career is like testament in terms of like seeing the thing through you know at a young age you know again it's like you're saying you became a mum but then you're like you know you're on top of the pops like winning awards is so solid and like with that success we only see the finished article you know I say this to a lot of young people that are like I want to do what you're doing I'm just like bro this is you're seeing the finished article now this is it this is where I'm trying to look at other things I can do and stuff I think that's just it you've got to keep going I think if you've got a career I realise that being a musician you don't have to stay in Just Music.

1:03:41I've got my agency. I've got my interior design. I've got my book. I've got all these other things that I'm doing. And I think that's like yourself. You know anyway because I've watched you pivot. Oh, thank you. Continuously. And I'm so proud of your journey because you have not stopped. One thing's led to another from a couple of cans that I remember at the very beginning. Can I boil up the blood cloud, Julie? Oh my gosh. I was going to ask you to do that voice. I was going to ask you. Oh my goodness, bro. Honestly, I'm so proud because you know it's very easy to get stuck in one place but if you pivot you can continue to some great pasture

1:04:15Mo Gilligan: and that's exactly what you're up to so i think finding the balance it's like you're saying is the best thing you can do for your career it's like because there's things you do when you're not doing you know the things that you enjoy doing that's your artistry yes baking cooking whatever it is some people like cleaning and stuff but having those things away from that which is like I just want to go for a walk you know yeah oh that's the same I don't mind if it's raining going for a walk walk in the rain that's the best like I could be anywhere like a lot of people when I'm doing world tours they're like what was it like man going to these places I said bro I can't lie you know I go to the gym then I just want to walk through the shopping centre sometimes just to have a look yeah I'm not buying anything but I just like to just go for a walk and see how people are living and walking and whatever it is that conscious mind would take you a lot of places it's the best man it's the best That's really good And also I guess It's probably the same In a sense of like When you've had money At quite a young age Yeah It's like the things That were the materialistic things You think I think this makes me happy Yeah And then you're like Nah it don't You know I've got the crepes I've had them I've had the car I've done the thing So that just to not Sometimes not buying the thing Or not just balling out Or whatever you like But also being on your own Sometimes Yeah Because in our careers You're surrounded by people Listen And just to be a moment on your own knowing that everyone's right there and you love everyone and you're glad they're part of your team and they're right there for you but just that walk on your own there's nothing that beats that man one thing I do whenever we're touring it's me and my mate normally Trevan and listen he'll be like yeah I'm gonna go out I'm gonna go to this place what are you doing I say brother I'm staying in this hotel room I'm staying in there all day I'm getting room service room service I want some films they got a different type of delivery I'm gonna use that hey listen yeah I'll go to the reception I'll pick up my food I don't need to see anything What's the time of the show?

1:06:06Mo Gilligan: Alright, six I'll see you there at seven Best place to be Do you know the maddest thing What I started doing recently Is like I have baths in it But like a bath bath A bath bath You stay in there for long Like prawns When is the bath in your house It's like Oh man, I'm going to clean this And then like It's not the same Do you know what I mean? Are you getting the people Bath and dirty I'm laughing it No, no I don't leave it dirty But it's enough that like Yeah When it's in my house, I'm like, oh, yeah. And then someone might ring the door. The ring door's not connecting. You never stay in too long as well because it's your house.

1:06:41Mo Gilligan: You know you're going to get up and do something. It don't feel the same. I need to tidy up downstairs, but I need to go to bed. Sitting there in my bathroom. I'm like, change that. You know what? The ambient lighting in a hotel bathroom. I can leave the door open. Fine, man. I'll get fresh towels in the morning as well. What do you mean? Before I go I've got some quick fire questions It's either this Or that Quick one It is Stage Or studio Stage Stage 2000s fashion Or now Oh it's so It's 2000s back anyway So now Yeah man Everything old school works now I tell you Next summer Girls are going to be wearing Pedal pushers I believe they're coming back I believe they're coming back Man Oh this is a great one Okay Okay, rapping or singing?

1:07:33Oh my God. You can rap, sing, so rapping.

1:07:36Mo Gilligan: Rapping. Yeah. Oh, this. Okay, last one. You are early morning riser. Early morning. Or a late night hour. Early morning. Early morning. I'm up six every day. Is it? Sometimes if I can get earlier. I love going to bed early. Is it? Give me my sleep. What time's early though?

1:07:54Between 10 and 12. Ah, okay. Nine and 12. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 12 is late for me. I'm going to be tired in the morning. because I still like to get up. I have to have eight hours sleep for a really good feeling for a whole day. I want a good eight hours.

1:08:06Mo Gilligan: I started doing the longer, the early nights. Early nights is good. I started taking magnesium. Magnesium, honey. Yeah. I hate you. But the sleep is too deep, though. The sleep is too deep. This is the thing. Don't make no one wake you up because you're going to feel rotten. I said, nah, man. Why am I sleeping this deep? I'm having four or five dreams. Why is my mouth dry? Yeah. My mouth shut up snoring. And when I'm waking up, I'm waking up like refreshed, like, wow, that was a good sleep. Wow. I was like, I didn't like it like this. Was the dreams too much? Yeah, they're vivid, man. But you gotta, what are you watching before you go to sleep?

1:08:36That's the thing. You gotta clear your mind before you sleep. You know that, right?

1:08:38Mo Gilligan: Yeah, no, the thing is though, weirdly, before I go to bed, that's normally where I set calendars. I put things. I do the last email. So you've got your mind too active. Don't do it. Do it an hour before bed. I do watch a couple memes and stuff. But then what it is, I also can't watch. If I'm going to watch something, I want to watch something that's boring. Yes, because then you won't watch it You're dead all night Murder mystery Why is it 3am now? I'm watching all the murders I need to see who the killer is And then I'm scared in my house What is that? Lisa man, it's been such a pleasure To have you on this podcast I genuinely mean it And when I say what I said before You guys again, like grew up Listening to your music Like you're an absolute superhero You're an icon The amount of people That will listen to this And be like Rah like I relate to this woman so much But also Like We relate to you Do you know what I mean Like when we're watching TV We're watching it Because you're on television Do you know what I mean So Just last plug Where can everyone get the book Is it a good bookstore It's number one On Amazon right now I know it's before release Big Amazon Jeff Bezos Millionaire Millionaire You killed me Million years Number one booklet Pandames on Million years It's been number one twice Before release Which is great Wow And it's in Waterstones as well Okay Yeah Wicked man Well listen It's been a pleasure To have you on the podcast God bless you Thank you so much And this has been Your beginning Middle and end Thank you very much Everybody Lisa Matthew Fantastic stuff Hey what's up people My name is Mo Gilligan I just want to thank you So much for listening and watching my podcast.

1:10:27Mo Gilligan: Now, a lot goes into making this podcast, as you can imagine. I might be the person that's in front of the screen, but it's really about the people that are behind the cameras. And what I'd really appreciate what you could do for them is one, give this a like. That'll be great. Hype it up. That'll be amazing. But most importantly, if you could subscribe, if you could just hit that little bit just there and subscribe. The reason why that helps is it helps us build a community, what people like, what they want to see more of. And most importantly, it gets these podcasts straight to you. So you don't even have to look for them anymore.

1:10:58Mo Gilligan: And how cool is that? Now, listen, if you do want to watch any other episodes, you can check out this episode down here and this episode just down here. My name is Jim Mo Gilligan. Take care. Peace.