Ortis Deley: The Live TV Disaster That Stalled My Career | with Beginning, Middle & End

0:00Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like, and that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average$21 with insurance, and some pay as little as$0, depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments.

0:37You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality, licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash ACAST. That's growtherapy.com slash ACAST. growtherapy.com slash ACAST. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. What phone did you have in your yard?

1:22No Did you have a Or did you have a See I had a I had one of them one So I was never going to win It'd take you like five minutes Number eight Yeah

1:41But no thanks for coming on the pod bro My pleasure I really appreciate that man The last time I seen you was what A couple of weeks ago Yeah We came to the screening and stuff So one I appreciate you for coming down to that as well. I think Angelica would have broken my back if I said no to coming on the podcast. No, Angelica's like, I feel like, is she like the glue that holds everyone together in some ways? Yeah, in some respects. So there's a crowd of us that, like we all met at the same point or over a couple of years whilst at CBBC. But Jelly's the one who throws the party to bring us all together.

2:17Okay. You know what I mean? It only happens once a year, But like no one turns down the invite Because you know when you get there It's going to be a vibe And you're going to see faces that you haven't seen for a while So yeah I guess in that sense She is blue like Yeah yeah yeah Whenever I do you know these episodes of the pod Like I was saying On one of the other episodes I do a bit of research Then I have some open chat and stuff But then you've been You've been in the business for almost like 30 to 40 years almost Yeah, so I started my first day on set or like in a studio was December 16th.

2:59Yeah. 94. 94. 94. So it's coming up to 32 years now. Oh, man. What does that feel like for you now? Bro, it feels mad because. You look like you are 25, bro. You know what? I'm not going to lie to you, bro. Thank you. I don't feel I don't feel old I feel like me Apart from when I get up in the mornings You know a little stiffness in the left foot I have to hobble it out And When I jog I now understand that I jog like an older man I don't jog like a ute anymore There's a sort of When I jog now Rather than a chest up kind of run Outside of that though I don't feel I don't feel old Yeah And so when I look back or when I think back to how long I've been doing it, I was just thinking back the other day to when I graduated.

3:55I was like, oh, when did we graduate from university? It's 95. I'm like, well, 95, so that's 31 years. Me and them people have known each other for like 33, 34 years. And it's hard to make sense of that because I don't feel older. I still can't say just old. It has to be the two syllables. I don't feel older I know that I am Because there's evidence that You know speaks to it But yeah 32 years nearly man You say when you was at uni Because you started And was it pharmacy? Yeah So how did the jump from pharmacy Go to being like A broadcaster for 30 years? What was the change in that? There was a TV show Advertising in the city That they were looking for contestants And that was Blind Date Yeah Yeah.

4:43Yeah. So Blind Date came up to, I was studying in Sunderland. Blind Date came up to the Northeast, Sunderland, Newcastle, Durham, Darlington, all of those places there. And they were putting posters up saying they were going to be in, in town on this particular day, come along for open auditions. So my whole, pretty much my whole house, the students from the whole house, bar one or two. So it was about, and, and friends, There was about eight of us rolled up on these open auditions.

5:16And it went from there. I sat down, I spoke to some people, I bus a couple joke. Some friends of mine that were in earlier were like, oh, he sings as well. He sings, get him to sing, get him to sing something. And a few weeks later they said, yeah, we'd like you to come up to Edinburgh for the next round of interviews. Did the next round of interviews. and then it was actually on my 21st birthday I got a phone I was just chilling at home with my folks I had nothing planned all my friends were like all over the country some of them still at uni they hadn't um they hadn't broken up yet got a phone call on my 21st birthday and they said yeah at the end of the month we're gonna we're gonna shoot your shoot your show your episode you're on I was like oh okay and they said um do you I asked them uh do you know where I'm going yet They said, no, that will be decided on the day by picking, picking the cards.

6:12So I had a few weeks to get my head around it. They asked for 12 questions, write out 12 questions. We'll pick the best three. Yeah. They picked the best three. I went in, I had a stand in, like literally a double. Like if anything happened to me, then my mom was going to come in and it was going to be his, his show, his episode. And I picked my date. And then when she picked the Envelope It said Yeah you're going to Seattle We went to America For five days Five days The other couple on the show Got a hot air balloon In something For an afternoon Yeah Yeah So hold on Wait So anyone listening This is Blind date Used to come on Like night This is like We're talking like Peak TV Peak Saturday night TV Like Saturday night TV It would have gladiators Yep I almost I almost applied For gladiators instead Is it So the shows were running At the same time Yeah So you had to pick a bunch I almost applied For old school gladiators At the same time But then A friend of mine was like Listen yeah You could do the gladiator thing Or You could go on blind date And maybe get a little You know what I mean So which one Which one you gotta pick Wow So I went for blind date instead So So back in the day You'd had This is like 90s TV Saturday night TV In this country has always been the epitome of like, the weekend is almost built in terms of TV wise.

7:39Appointment to view. The biggest shows are always on a Saturday night, you know, especially entertainment-wise, Shiny Floor. And, you know, you're talking the legend, that's Cilla Black. Blind Date, it felt like, if I can remember right, it was LWT. Correct. So you'd have Gladiators. I feel like there was something maybe before. It might be like Bruce Forsyth's something. I'm not sure. Or maybe a cartoon show or something. in between yeah there was always and then like Blind Date but then we'd have the Saturday night film yes and I remember it so vividly because my mum would go to like Happy Shopper and be like cool and get popcorn you know because we'd wait for the film because we couldn't afford to even go Blockbuster so it'd be like the show in Terminator 2 yes and even though I was a kid my mum was like well he ain't gonna get another chance to see this film or you know like a film that you was like wow we want like Saturday night TV yeah and then you might As I got older Then you did get Like match of the day But you turned over To BBC So You're on blind date Yeah You pick the date You go to Seattle Yeah Yeah Was it Everything You know like how it's displayed Like is there like a timeline Of like You You meet the person And then you go To the holiday Does that make sense Yeah So They were really Militant on You not seeing Any of your potential Dates Before you were meant to.

9:04Yeah. So even if you put up your hand, say, yeah, I need to go use the bathroom. They were like, okay, wait, wait, wait. We just got to make sure the hallways are clear. We've got to make sure the world was chaperoning the, the group of girls that you're going to pick from aren't in the wrong area as well. So I didn't get to see any of those three ladies until the blind went back. Really? Yeah. What was Cilla Black like? Professional. Yeah. Did I mean? So she didn't say too much Reassuring hand on the shoulder She could see I was nervous Yeah, yeah I had a I had a cloth cap On backwards Yeah Because that's how I moved back Cloth cap on backwards Oversized Oversized shirt Oversized trousers And some Jodeci boots on Like Certain Certain Era Of people will know exactly what I'm talking about Yeah, yeah I mean, them boots like open I know the boots They're slightly open There you go That's how I repped when I went on But she could see I was nervous And she was like You know in her accent I ain't gonna try and do it But she was like Stop playing with your cap darling I'm like okay okay okay She says you're nervous I said yeah She says don't be You'll be fine And that was it Oh wow That was it Just a few words You know what I mean And then Three two one And then boom Cilla Black is in the building Do you know what I mean Like the face Just glows The audience goes mad And yeah That's the show So you then went On a date with someone Slash holiday Yeah And it was five days in Seattle In Washington State So we did a little bit in Seattle Then we went north a little bit To where they filmed a show called Northern Exposure Where they filmed a show called Twin Peaks Like they gave us the full tour man We went on a plane and flew over some of the lakes There We went to a First Nation Native American Reserve Because this is all filmed as well All filmed Is it very quick when you do the show to then go on holiday.

11:00Right. If I try and remember the dates, I think I shot, shot the first episode of the show and then we flew out that night. Really? Yeah. Yeah. We flew out that night. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Some, some couples might've gone off on their jaunt the next morning, but this flight was in the, it was in the next few hours. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Come, come fully packed. So we flew out that night. They shot Flew back And then I returned To the show Was it July Do you know what It was about a week Maybe two weeks tops For them to Chop it up Put it all together And then I come back And film the The return Wow Yeah I thought it was all like Smoke and mirrors In the sense of You've picked Gone on the date But it's filmed in advance Does that make sense Yeah I didn't know it was filmed In sequence Yeah yeah yeah yeah Oh my God.

11:55So that's like a question that I had to ask because obviously growing up watching that show, you know, you'd have the reunion when you come, not the reunion, but you come back. So you say, how's it going on? I didn't know it was in sequence. That's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think because that's the easiest way to tell the story. And for people that have got no TV experience, it's the easiest way for us to remember. You know what I mean? In sequence. So that's how they ran it. So you speak about like the TV experience. Was that experience something of being, you know, having the light on you, you know, that show light and seeing how everything's run was almost like a, oh, I like how this all operates.

12:34I kind of want to be involved in this space. Truthfully, no. So that was my experience. It would have been something to tell the grandkids later on. I was going back to uni. You have to remember, my dad's Nigerian. My mom's Ghanaian. If I'd have come off that show and said, yeah, I'm about to leave this life, yeah, and go be famous. My dad would have said, you're about to leave this life. I'll have to study a pharmacy as well. So that was at the beginning of my final year. So to turn around and say, yeah, I'm gone, dad, after two years. Yeah. However, after the show went out, the press office got in touch saying, look, these people have contacted us or these organisations have contacted us.

13:21It's up to you. We're passing them. We're passing the details on to you. It's up to you whether you contact them and take it further. They said, nobody has become famous off of this show and working in television is very different to the experience that you've had. That's, that was their warning. I think they were, they were being responsible. So, you know, got a couple of phone calls. So I entertained a screen test here and there, an audition here and there. And then I started working for a really small television company called TCC. I did weekends. I did one weekend a month so that I could continue with my final year.

14:04Um, I had to reassure my parents that I wasn't going to drop out, but I did want to explore some other opportunities. So I started working part-time as a TV presenter, um, during my final year. And then when I graduated, I said, yeah, let me go into this full time and see what. What was you presenting on TCC? I was doing continuity. So I was in between the shows. Um, so on TCC at that time, um we had shows like um saved by the bell um degrassi junior high so we had a couple of those american slash canadian um teenage shows but for the most part it was a children's channel and then the channel started to acquire more teenage stuff.

14:54So Heartbreak High, the one with the two identical twins, Sweet Valley High. Sweet Valley High. Yeah, yeah. So those kind of shows, more shows from Australia, more shows from Canada, more from the States. And the audience started getting older. So they rebranded TCC into Trouble. And that's what a lot of people were in. Yes, because when you said TCC, I felt like I grew up watching you on Trouble. And then Trouble is basically the show That just had every If you grow up in the 90s That's where you get from your Like you're saying shows like My Wife and Kids was on there Moesha The other one with the twins The Sisters Yes So I felt like that had Hanging with Mr.

15:41Cooper All those shows just became synonymous with Trouble TV And also I think Trouble is Correct me if I'm wrong anybody that's watching Trouble released one of the first reality shows called Cruel Summer

15:59refresh my memory of this show was this where they had to go and work somewhere Cruel Summer was hosted by Sarah Kaywood and it was a bunch of teenagers I can't remember what it was they got them to do but they had cameras watching them and all the drama so that came out, ran about the same time as MTV was doing. What was their reality show now? It will come to me later. They had one. So before all of them, Big Brother and whatnot, it was Cruel Summer and Reality Bites or something like that on MTV. Yeah. I feel like I know the name. Yeah. I think once I see the show or like a pitch, I'll be like, ah, that show.

16:44I remember that show. So then you start being a presenter on television. What's that like for you at that time? Because this is the 90s on television. Again, again, it was mad for me because the job felt like the perfect fit. You know, man, I'm chatting, I'm showing off, I'm chatting to I'm interviewing people It felt like the most natural fit This is where This is where I should be But then when the cameras stop rolling And you go out on street To have people like say Oh that's my man Oh that's Otis Let me get your autograph Now I'm showing how Back in the day it was Because that's what people Because this is an autograph I remember it I remember seeing someone from the bill And I was like Hey can I get your autograph In Sainsbury's Never forget that moment There you go So that part of it felt weird, but good.

17:41Because for me, it was like, okay, I'm doing what I'm doing on TV and people are, people are excited by it. They like what I'm doing. I've made the right decision. So let me keep going. And it was never a point, it never got to a point or was never a case where I couldn't come out of my yard and there was paps or, you know, if I came out of a nightclub, Do you know what I mean? I had to be careful who I came out with. All of the sort of the level of fame that I was enjoying flew beneath the radar. So it was just, it was just fun. We'd work, then we'd go club. Do you know what I mean? Then we'd do it all again the following day.

18:22What was it like going out raving back in those days though? Being on television. Because it felt like, I don't know, like, was there like, if you're saying that there ain't this kind of, you're not getting papped, you know, in the papers, Did it feel like a, right, I can just live life. I'm not paper worthy. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. And that's exactly how it was. So there was enough level of fame for doorman to recognize me and let me in with my boys or whoever I was with. Yeah. And I'd get recognized when I was in the club. But it wasn't to a point where I could always get in VIP, for example.

18:56Okay. It wasn't to a point where like I was getting bought drinks after drinks, after drinks, after drinks. and I wasn't a target for, I wasn't a target for like honey traps or wags or, or anything like that. Cause remember I was raving with, I was raving with the guys I grew up with. Yeah. So that was my protection. That was, that was what I knew. The only thing that was different was they mightn't have to pay entry to get into a club or we might not have to queue. That was it. Otherwise once they're inside, we're raving with everybody else. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's just that sometimes someone might say, oh, aren't you?

19:34And then you can guarantee a friend of yours would say, no, no, ain't him. Ain't him. Ain't him. And we just carry on bubbling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean? And then you'd rave until like two, three in the morning, catch the night bus home, and then get up for work the next morning. Yeah, yeah. And you say work the next morning because obviously I know you from growing up, live and kicking as well. Yeah. Which I think for me anyway was like the epitome of like Saturday breakfast, not I say breakfast, but for kids on a Saturday, as much as we talk about Saturday evening TV, Saturday morning TV was, I think it was even bigger.

20:08Yeah. Because you had, you know, CITV and you had BBC. It was like a rivalry. Huge rivalry. In some ways. Huge rivalry. And I'll be honest with you, by the time I was on at the BBC, we were losing the battle. We were losing the battle. So, you know, it went in swings and roundabouts. You know, there were certain shows that did really well for ITV, like Number 73, Get Fresh, them kind of shows. And then there were like traditional classics that the BBC would roll out and you couldn't touch them. So like Swap Shop, Saturday Superstore, Going Live. And in the beginning, Live and Kicking. Um, so as a kid, Saturday morning was appointment viewing and what they did.

21:02So what the kids have now is they can channel surf and they can go anywhere they want. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Streaming wise to watch their content on a Saturday morning kids show, they called them magazine shows. So every 10, 15, 30 minutes, there'd be something different just to try and keep kids attention. so we'd link into a five minute cartoon or then we'd go into an episode of you know some children's drama and then we'd have guests from that drama guests from grange hill do you know i mean whoever's at the number one spot right now is coming on to perform live so there was a lot of elements going into these shows like it was chaos you had some guests as well we did man I've seen the clip with Rihanna.

21:46What could I do? What could I do? Like she was, let me try and remember, she was 16, 17 at the time. So again, we don't know about the world at that age. You know what I mean? We don't know about the world at that age and she would have come fresh, fresh from Barbados. Do you know what I mean? And she, she didn't mean any harm. So I couldn't, I couldn't come down on her or criticise her for, you know, what she said. So for anyone listening, just check it out, innit? If you could play a gig anywhere in the world, where would it be? Africa. Africa. Nice choice. Do you want to narrow it down maybe to a country?

22:24Any part of that. Just for the children with AIDS. Okay, so a nice benefit gig kind of thing. So funny. Saturday morning TV, though, I've found like, you know, whenever I've done live TV, it's, it's knowing that you're live. It's always the thing in the back of my mind that knowing that I can say whatever I want to this camera. And it's almost like, I don't know if you've had it, but I remember once swearing and it was on the Brits. Yeah. And as soon as I've said it, I've got, you know, panic. Mo, you need to apologize for it. My head is spinning. Yeah. And it's only in, and I've looked at one of my friends who is a friend of mine.

23:04He helps write And I work from a lot of stuff David And I looked at him And he's just like And he's my He's my reference point I'm like Is this bad yeah And he's like And That's when my head Is again spinning But then Some of my friends Are on WhatsApp They're like brother It's calm It's calm Yeah And weirdly Because we've gone to break I'm checking No one's checked Yeah But it's only until I've said That's it By the way guys I'm so sorry You've put a spotlight on it Now everybody knows And that's when everybody's realised what I've said. And people are like, what did he say? What did he say? What's it like for you when you was doing live TV?

23:41You know, we're talking, this is, you've got kids live, you've got phone-ins happening. What was that? Was it as chaotic as it looked? So, you know the analogy they have with the swan? Like the swan looks graceful on top, but underneath the legs again. Yeah. Yeah, that was an upside down swan, man. It was chaos on set, chaos on screen, But that's what kids love. They love watching stuff, knowing that it could go wrong. And so to make the program well, you give the impression that something could go wrong at any minute. But there are professionals working on the show. So it's not going to get to that.

24:21But you don't let you don't let people see the seams. Yeah. You don't let people know what's going on behind the scenes. So. Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like. And that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance.

24:58Sessions average$21 with insurance and some pay as little as$0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the U.S. offering both virtual and in-person sessions nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash ACAST.

25:36That's growtherapy.com slash ACAST. growtherapy.com slash ACAST. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. Hey guys, it's Drew from the comment section. Some days my skin just needs a little coverage and other days I want to go full glam for those everyday moments like running errands or grabbing coffee I've been loving the merit minimalist stick because it's a foundation and concealer in one that gives me a really Natural skin like finish, but when I want more coverage i'm reaching for the hourglass vanish concealer every time I know i'm not the only one who struggled to find the right foundation or concealer shade Which is why I always shop at sephora They have the best brands all in one place with so many shades, coverage options and finishes, plus expert beauty advisors, free samples and shade matching tools both online and in store.

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26:36On it with the swearing because it's a kid show. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? even certain references like we weren't allowed to say. So there was a list of words that you couldn't, you couldn't say. Blimey was one of them. So I thought blimey was safe, but blimey is a shortened form of God blind me. Oh, okay. Couldn't say that. Couldn't say truth, even though everyone was talking with Australian isms at the point, because again, that was God's truth. You couldn't, you couldn't use that as an exclamation. And then, you know, all of the others. And I can remember doing one skit. So I had this regular character.

27:16He was a sergeant major and we'd get the guests on and I'd march up and down and I'd get them to sing along with her. And we had one guest on and they referenced Prince. And I said, you know, I remember Prince was on the show once upon a time and we had to be careful because Prince is one sexy mother. And I was never going to swear. I was never going to say the full word. You know what I mean? Yeah. I cut myself off at mother, but bro, yeah, man, I got rap across the knuckles. There was no apology to go out because I didn't actually swear. You didn't say the word. But they said it was just, it was too close.

27:55Oh, wow. Too close to the knuckle. They got really upset. The competitions, I've always needed to understand this. When they're giving away all these toys, yeah? Yeah. how many people were calling in? Cause I was calling in. I was like, come on, man, surely. Cause sometimes it will be like, it might be like, all right guys. So if you heard this sound, call in, what is it from? I'll be calling on the line. And I'm like, I must be first. I've just like them competitions. Like, was it really like they were real, bro. I will tell you as someone who watched those shows before working on those shows i would call before the noise yeah before the question to try and time it so that when the question was asked it'd be like yeah the answer is because i swear that's what people were doing they were jumping the gun they were preempting yeah never got through really never got through because that was my thing i was like come on man surely i must get picked and then you wait the next week and you're like come on what what phone did you have in your yard no did you have a Or did you have a See I had a I had one of them once So I was never going to win It'd take you like five minutes Yeah Yeah Like with your time being on like You know Like the chaoticness of it Did that give you almost like a crash course in Being a TV presenter Because like you know even like when it comes to live Did you have open talkback Yes Oh yeah Yeah I had open because I needed to, I needed to hear everything that was going on because if it's silent and then someone just comes in and says, you need to go to a break now that, that cuts through more than just, I could listen to the chaos and pick out the director's voice.

29:46If he or she was saying something to me, but to just have nothing and then someone speak to me on switch, I couldn't work that way. Yeah. I couldn't work that way. I found, you know, there's, I said the same thing with Angelica. I was like, the minute I started doing television and they said to me do you want it open or closed? I said what? What are you talking about? This ain't no kebab ting. I'm like no, I don't need to know what's going on. And it's mad when I've heard about what's going on in the gallery afterwards. Like yeah, you know we was, this was happening, that was happening and da da da da da.

30:17I remember one time, you know, I'm very fortunate because when I got to do television I was able to do the shows that one would, one suit me but also the shows I'm like well I enjoy it. It's kind of like a vibe. But like, you know, doing things like the Big Nasty show was like, you know, they're like, they got talked back. And Big Nasty's like, hey, stop talking to me, man. Anyway, as I was saying, I'm sitting there like, bro, are we allowed to do that? Can you do that? Yeah. So you pick up bad habits from doing a show where you're like, maybe I can take this out. What's next? What's next? And then you're like, no, no, let me put this first.

30:55It doesn't always work. So I had a really bad experience working for Channel 4 covering their athletics. So back in 2011, and I asked for Open Talkback then. But this company I was working with, their whole culture of Open Talkback was very different to what I'd experienced at the BBC. Of course. That coupled with bravado. Yeah, yeah, I can do this, whatever. It's live, I can do it. Not doing enough research just meant that it all fell to pieces live and on air. so when one of the one of the arts of broadcasting live is when you're being spoken to to just be able to carry on speaking anyway and taking what they're saying but if it's alien to you and if things are going wrong you'll be talking and then you look like you're listening yeah and this happened to me 15 years in the game like live tv coming out of my paws but this particular event was a perfect storm of all the wrong elements.

31:57And it just went, it just went completely wrong. Yeah. Completely wrong. Yeah. My career stalled for two years after that. Really? Yeah. Is that because of like word of mouth I've got around or was it just? I couldn't tell you exactly what it is. I suspect one, it was live. Two, athletics fans are mad passionate. So a lot of them questioned me getting the role in the first place. and Twitter was a thing then. So this is 2011. So Twitter was new, but it was still a place where people go to complain. And I had a lot come at me as a result of that. And the powers that be at the time reacted to it and dropped me from the show.

32:46So I think the aftermath of that was I became, I don't know what the term is, but when, well, untouchable, blacklisted. Yeah. Blacklisted. Yeah. And I couldn't get into a room for about 18 months. Agent just couldn't get anyone to talk to me. Really? Oh, wow. Had a little bit of bad press in the sports pages. It was that big? Yeah. Yeah. A little bit of bad press in the sports. I mean, there was no news anyway. Yeah. So, you know what I mean? Something like this happened. And yeah, the sharks just went at it. So yeah, kind of career wise hit rock bottom for a little bit. And then, yeah, tech, tech.

33:33And two months later, Gadget Show changed its format. And so Susie, John and I got dropped from the show. So I had two massive kicks in the balls within about two, three months of each other. Really? Because Gadget Show was huge. Huge. At a point it was massive. You talk about like phoning competitions. Oh yeah. I entered that one as well. That's one I wanted to know as well. Did anyone actually win them? Genuine. At Gadget Show's peak every week, somebody was getting like that big van, that big truck turned up outside their yard. Really? Like where are we going to put all of this? Yeah. Because I felt like with Gadget Show, I used to, one I used to love it because you get to know about what's coming out, what's new.

34:16But it felt like for me You guys enjoyed the gadgets too Listen Do you know what I mean? It was It was a celebration of tech Like we'd go mad for the next bit of kit Coming out What did you get early on That no one had? What did I get? Or like that wasn't being used Does that make sense? Yeah I hear you I think one of my earliest experiences That like blew my mind was, um, so it was VR. So early VR, this would have been, this would have been maybe 2011. We went out to some research facility on the outskirts of, um, uh, we flew into Munich and then drove about an hour and a half to some research facility.

35:05And they had this, um, they called it a, something like a transverse, um, treadmill. So this was a treadmill that you could stand on, start walking in any direction. So all you had to do was turn. But as you were walking, the rollers and the wheels underneath you would mean you stayed in exactly the same place. But with the 3D headset on, you were moving through this virtual space. So I'm on this thing walking and in my head, like you're not going anywhere. But the virtual reality was telling me, yeah, man, you're walking. You're walking miles. Stop there. Stop there. that you're on the edge of something.

35:45So I got introduced to this, you know, 20, 25 years ago. Oh my God. And that, that blew my mind. That blew my mind. Now, in terms of, we, we did some forward gazing, but more time, it was like we were at the cutting edge. So if something was about to be released, we'd go chat to the Kickstarters behind it, or we'd get to play with it before it, before it came out. So certain games, we got to mess with before they came out. And one other piece of tech that really sticks in my mind was something called the one wheel. I saw somebody with it yesterday, actually, because I don't see that many of them in London.

36:28So this was a skateboard with a hole in the middle and one wheel. So you would literally lean forward to go forward, lean back to break, but you could do like tight circles and whatnot. Yeah, I think I've seen these, yeah. And I met the guy who had just successfully kickstarted the first round of investment for it. So I got to ride the prototype and it went through maybe two or three changes, but yeah, one wheel. And like motorized trikes and beach buggies and electric drones we saw a lot of. I had to go on a jet pack. They wouldn't let me fly off with it, but they let me feel that it was going to lift me off the ground.

37:12So many stories, man That show That show took me around the world Like I'm forever grateful to that show Yeah, yeah That show took me around the world I met mad geeks I went to California Beer Times Vegas Japan Because they have the show there In January Yes, yeah That's the big consumer show That's it All the news deck and everything That's it Yes Went there a few times Across Europe Interviewing people that were doing like Mad shit with stuff they got out of their kitchen drawers You know what I mean You know He'd go to Poland You know what I mean And Man would be there saying Yeah I got to Two fork Put on the back Of bicycle And now I can You know Eat with my back wheel Or some stupid shit Like It was It was It was mad And I think they The show ended before its time but at its peak yeah it was untouchable really was you know channel five that was his one of its biggest hits so like when you start doing that show because i know you're into comic books and sci-fi did it feel like almost like you're doing your dream job because you get to one you get to present but you're like i get to then play with gadgets and meet the people that like we're all fascinated about the same thing.

38:34Yeah. So at school, I loved physics, chemistry and maths. That's what I took at A-level because I genuinely liked them. Yeah. Anything sci-fi on TV from Star Trek to Space 1999, Star Wars, Buck Rogers, all of those shows there. Anything that had a little bit of science and make believe in it, I was there. Knight Rider. do you know what I mean? Airwolf them kind of shows yeah Airwolf was cold man didn't really get to do much science and technology at the BBC I did a pilot for Tomorrow's World that's the show I wanted to work on Tomorrow's World yeah wow but it had come to an end by the time I started working they tried to revitalise it with a couple of pilots here and there and I did one and it didn't didn't make it all the way so So I've got a new agent after I left CBBC and she asked me like, are there any shows out there that are on that, you know, you would like to be a part of?

39:41And I said, there's only one. I said, there's a show called The Gadget Show with a guy called Jason, who I used to work with. That show? Yeah. And my agent got me the job within about two months. Like there was a vacancy there. So I went to see them, spoke to the executive producer, And got the show. Oh, wow. Yeah. So you got the dream job that you wanted to do. Oh, wow. Yeah. My first thing for them was 3D TV that Sky Television was trying to push. Do you still have any of the tech now? What's the oldest tech I've got from there? So because we were reviewing tech in a journalistic capacity, we weren't allowed to receive gifts.

40:29So let's say I gave Because Sony used to have the phones, right? Xperia? Yeah Let's say I gave a favourable review to the Xperia And then I pocketed one Other journalists would be like Yeah, but that's a biased review Like you got gifted it That's why you spoke about it so well So nicely, yeah, yeah, yeah So if something like that happened If I, on a rare occasion I had a gift I would have to declare it And then I wouldn't be allowed to review any related tech and I didn't really want that. So unless you were going to give me like a car, which I never got, do you know what I mean? I turned it down because it just meant, it meant potentially more work.

41:10Again, if it got out that I was accepting gifts from Sony, then Samsung wouldn't have me for nothing. I didn't know it was that intense. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So you had to be impartial. Couldn't be seen to be receiving any gifts. Did you get any free stuff though? That said, there might be one or two pieces in the house. I'm still trying to think of the oldest. So I did a review for a company at the time that was called Heat Genius. And they were one of the pioneering companies that allowed you to create heating zones in your house. So you had a heating valve with certain tech in it that allowed you to communicate with it via an app.

41:54so you could have this heater on that heater off without having to go upstairs and turn them all down you could have them switched on off wherever you want create heat zones in your house control the boiler and heat up your water that's one of the oldest bits that I've got in my house still use it still swear by it like it's dope when I sell the house I'm taking it with you it's not the time to go bro Yeah. In my pocket, it's going with me. Did you do Police Interceptors as well? I did, bro. Thank you for reminding me of that. That one came like, that was a random something. So obviously I've been doing Channel 5 stuff.

42:40And they said they wanted, the show works on its own with a voiceover and like the police them. And they said, we want to do a couple of specials where we get someone to sit with them on whatever happens. There might be a chase. There might be a bust. There might be an arrest or there might be nothing. But we want someone to sit and just talk on it. So I did, I think in total, I did about six episodes. But the first bunch I shot, there was a high speed chase through the streets. So I sat in a Was I Was I in a passenger seat I was in a passenger seat Sat in a passenger seat With You see me pushing back already Because like This thing is going through the streets of Like Darlington and whatnot Like real quick Yeah So I got a police chase We got one of them ones where they Pinned a car Like four Four police cars Catching up with Some wrong and in a car Forcing him to stop And him having like about Two kilos of the white stuff in, what did he have it in?

43:49Some kind of twisty compartment, something. So they're like, oh, it's talk on it, talk on it. And I'm like, oh, man, that's coke. Man's got coke. There's coke in the car. There was another one where we got, they kicked down the door to some house. The neighbours had been complaining about the smell and there was a lamppost outside and there was big cables coming off the lamppost. And they said, that's where they get in there. electricity from they're bypassing the meter and they're doing it this way so we went kicked the door down in this house got hit by a wave of like weed like just smelling the cannabis cops ran upstairs and then another cop is behind me going go go go go go go so we're running up um i can't remember what the word was but there's one word that a policewoman started shouting which meant someone was trying to get out the back yeah so one camera ran around the back and there's a guy dangling from the window trying to get out and he dropped Bussie's ankle, but still trying to hobble off.

44:47This is like my first couple of days. And then we get into this attic and it's a weed farm, bruv. Like the smell, the smell was incredible. And the cameras are going around and you've got all this hydroponics and whatever going on, like proper weed farm, cannabis leaves like big, big. So yeah, there was that. To me It was just an eye opener Like I wasn't there To endorse the police But just to be there And like See what was going on Yeah That was mad Like I said like You want me back On that Anytime Just give me the call Like Because it was like a It's a It's a rush It's an adrenaline rush Like you're in fast cars Do you know what I mean You're bussing wrong-uns Do you know what I mean Like it's not me Walking with handcuffs On that one But like I'm there Like and they're saying to me like ask the perp Sutton ask the criminal Sutton like yeah yeah how you feeling like did you think he'd get caught though yeah just what do you say in those situations but slowly slowly I've got the hang of it so I talk to the camera and say what we've just witnessed is a it's an XYZ so the policemen have done ABC and they know that only after they verified that can they enter the building or can they talk to this individual and then it's like hey guys it's drew from the comment section some days my skin just needs a little coverage and other days i want to go full glam for those everyday moments like running errands or grabbing coffee i've been loving the merit minimalist stick because it's a foundation and concealer in one that gives me a really natural skin like finish but when i want more coverage i'm reaching for the hourglass vanish concealer every time i know i'm not the only one who struggled to find the right foundation or concealer shade, which is why I always shop at Sephora.

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48:18We then accompany them to the station. And I'd never been in a police station before. Like I'd never been in a cell before. Um, they showed me how they restrain individuals as well. Like where they put, where they put pressure, where they put, put the arm. Do you know what I mean? Just to, uh, make sure that no one can get away. Yeah. It was, it was eyeopening, man. Police interceptors. And that shows, that shows still going, still going. Oh yeah, no, that's strong, man. They love watching. I like it when they pause it and then they're like, they showed a car and they'd be like, um, I think there's like, it might be a Scottish guy or something.

48:53It's like, um, The police in this county have got a Subaru in Prensa. This will really catch the criminals. And you're like, I am hooked. That show and Border Force. Yeah. But the Australian one. Oh. Listen, them two shows, I think it might have been Sky. I don't know. There's like a Sky 4 or something like that. Always on. Always on. All the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Border Force. But the Australian Border Force? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bruv. Because it's like, you know what's going to happen. Be certain of when it's going to happen Yeah See they're going to like Search someone You're like They ain't got nothing But just dried up fruit Do you know what I mean And they can't get through the country Boo And then they catch one And you're like Nah one time I was watching it Had an auntie on there man I said nah man Leave auntie man Leave her alone And I'm watching it like Nah see how they get the black people on it Listen there was that And then they take her in the back room I was like I know she ain't got nothing And he goes Unfortunately She got caught With over 40 kilos Of heroin I said oh

49:56yeah man so like i feel like you've you've been able to almost be able to to kind of i won't say pick the shows you wanted to do but do the stuff you know as a presenter where you're like you do the stuff that you obviously enjoy do you know what i mean yeah i think i'll be honest with you up until up until very recently it wasn't by design it was the work that i did was my calling card for work that i could do yeah um and then when when opportunities came that felt like they were something that i could do and enjoy doing i would say yes so it wasn't like i wrote out a plan and said yeah i want to do an athletic show i want to do a police show i want to do a saturday morning kids show everything just sort of grew out of the out of the last thing and i think between you and me that developed uh a sort of lazy attitude and and a lack of i wouldn't say a lack of ambition but there wasn't a plan um i just went along with it yeah and so when i hit crisis point i didn't really know what to do so have a plan in it yeah not a rigid one because I'm not one for, you know what I mean, being constrained too much, but have a plan.

51:15Know what to do if this doesn't work out or make sure that this works out. Yeah. And then put your energy into that. It's interesting what you say about having a plan because have you ever been approached to do shows, you know, like maybe it could be like Strictly and stuff like that, that you're like, ah, like, don't know if I want to do this, but maybe it might be good to do in terms of it's work. in some ways. Yeah. Yeah. So there, there have been, so at one point or another, I've sat in the room with the, I'm a celebrity lot, um, strictly, uh, and big, big brother. Um, I wasn't, ultimately I wasn't offered any of them.

51:58However, I wouldn't have taken them. So actually, um, I really didn't want to go in to, uh, meet the I'm a Celebrity lot because this was 2002, 2003. So after Live and Kicking had finished and I was not working as much as I would have liked. But back then I thought I didn't need, my career doesn't need resuscitating. Do you know what I mean? I just need to find the next project. Now that was the season where Katie Price and Peter Andre met. Yeah. and I didn't want to do it then. I'm not a bug person, man. Like even now people are like, we've seen what you're like with spiders. Like you're scurrying.

52:50And yes, I am. Which is precisely why I'm not going to do a show like that. Come on, bro. No, do you feel me though? No. Like things are going to have to be really desperate for me to sleep with snakes. You know what? Snakes, I'd be all right. But then tarantulas and the eating of the bugs and the eyeballs and the tinks. Nah, I can't. It's funny you say that because I... They've asked you, innit? Yeah, they've asked me. They keep asking you. Yeah, but I, so I hate wasps. Okay. I don't like flies. You don't even like flies? No, like if we was in a room now and I'm not scared of them, but I can't concentrate because I remember one time we was doing something, some Channel 4 show.

53:34And I'm talking to someone I'm like yeah yeah yeah And I can just see this fly And it's around us And I'm like yo Sorry I'm so sorry We got a cup Can we fucking kill this fly Because this fly is And if it lands on me Then I'm like I'm losing it Like cockroaches Forget about it I've done a show once in Australia I'm on stage Come on I had a fucking cockroach I was like listen Cut the comedy for a minute We got to get rid of that cockroach So like my thing with bugs is, and you know, like Eddie Caddy and Bubba have been on the show. And I've said to them, boys, that when you go on and you're lying there with a bugs, do they give you earplugs or anything or whatever?

54:17They're like, nah, bro, the bugs are all like in your balls and that, like in your ear. Like sometimes you've got to get the man to come in. And I said, do you think I'm going in there? Not a chance. But the thing is like friends keep saying to me, but look, they survived, didn't it? I just know that Like You know like I know they're not going to put me In a tank full of wasps And I know that But Them knowing I don't like flies And I have to go into something That has flies in it Full of flies Yeah The flies will Now I win Because I've got the electric bat In the house I'll be bat bat bat But at that moment The flies and the cockroaches They win And I can't put myself through that So my thing Entertainment I can't Exactly that My thing is I like to entertain people on my terms.

55:03Yeah. I really don't like being the victim, you know? I don't like being, I don't like being that guy that everybody's laughing at. Laugh with me, innit? Yeah. Don't laugh at my pain. You know when it's like, look, I can laugh at myself. Yeah, yeah, I can make jokes about myself. And I know like, for example, I remember doing a show once, and this is why I don't think I'll ever do that show, is because once I remember doing a show, League of Their Own, I'm doing League of Their Own. Yeah. And we had this thing outside, right? And it's like an obstacle course and you've got a slide on one thing, Go over the thing And I'm not really scared of heights But I was like I get it Everyone's doing it I'm doing it too Not a problem And you know They're like Oh it's just I know TV It's just entertainment isn't it So obviously You play the game You're like I'm a bit scared But I'm going to do it But you know I'm looking at the net And I'm like Cool But I'm just doing it slow I'm like Guys I'm going to do it But I'm doing it my way The people at the bottom now They start Come on man Hurry up And I'm like Hey brother Wait wait wait Cut the cameras What's going on here now what's going on like I and especially when it's talent I'm like cool like we're in it together yeah but now when it's like okay you lot are laughing at me because I'm going slow and I'm like guys I wanted to do this but don't do this don't because now we're we're crossing the line innit I'm all here for the vibes but now you lot are laughing at my expense of like come on man you're taking it you know what cut cameras it'll still be there so now I'm looking at I'm looking at I'm looking at my friend Guz God was on the show I'm like What's going on here Are we here to To be used And laughed at What's What's happening here man And I think that for me Was my lesson of like I get it But if it's at my expense Where Like For TV's sake Cool man You know You get the clips Ah ha ha Cool but When it crosses the line of like Nah I When you lot are all in on this now But like now I've been set up Yeah Exactly And that's where I have the pushback.

56:59Do you know what I mean? Exactly the same. That being said, strictly, yeah, I could get with that. I've heard the dancing's hard though. I've heard it is hard work. Hard. Yeah. But I'm just thinking about the new muscles, like in the calves and the toes. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And upward from there. Any one of them others? Big Brother? Nah. Nah, it's too intense. and too conflict-driven. Yeah. Like, I don't want the easy life, but, you know what I mean? I don't want to be arguing with people just for clicks. Yeah. Do you feel also as well being a black man and doing TV where you feel like, look, man, if I tell someone like Lammy, it's going to get inflated as well.

57:49You've got to be careful. Do you know what I mean? You've got to be careful. It's unfortunate that we have to And second guess every thought and action for how it might be interpreted. We shouldn't have to.

58:11And don't get it twisted. Not all of us think that way. Some of us are unapologetically who we are. Do you know what I mean? And if you don't like it, then fine.

58:25I haven't I'm getting closer to that I think that's an age thing as well though As you get older it's like I don't care This is what I think This is what I believe What you think Not what you think but I don't How you feel about it You want to talk to me about it then let's talk Of course

58:48And And I used to think about it a lot, how I looked, how I was perceived, how I was received with what I do and how I communicate. Now it's not so much a concern because I know what's on my heart or what's in my head. I'm able to say it easily. If you interpret it in a particular way, that's on you. That's not how I put it. And that whole thing about being authentically who you are was really driven home to me recently. So I was at Carnival. I haven't been to Carnival. I hadn't been to Carnival for over 20 years. Really? Oh, wow. Over 20 years. Why? Moved out of London, young family. Just I just didn't And I had such a blast Because I did the The pan competition So I turned up for the pan competition The Sunday and the Monday For anyone watching What's the pan competition?

1:00:05So they have Steel bands Playing Against each other And they're looking for an ultimate winner For Carnival So those sounds and then the floats and the color and the celebration and the few occasions where we as black Brits or people of the diaspora, however it is you choose to describe your blackness can come together and be 177.83 % black. and not have to apologise for it at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was brilliant. The music, the celebration, the costumes.

1:00:53Just fabulous. I'm there every year now until I can't turn up because my legs are broken or whatever or they don't work. I'm there every year. I can see leaving it 20 plus years. I think what I always love about Carnival is that it's in the most wealthiest part of London as well. Of probably the UK If we're keeping it 100 Like When you go into that area Day to day Yeah And you look at these big massive Big houses White houses Yep Big old school townhouses as well And you're like Right These apartments And some of these houses here Are multi-million pound houses But you know the thing of it Like Once upon a time Or not too long ago Those houses were occupied By people that had the house Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Of course You know It's interesting Because that's for Arsenal And I remember going to the parade And it's in like North London And I'm like Right boy This is This is vibrant Everyone's is out Do you know We felt like Carnival Yeah But everyone's out But we're in like You know Holloway All of North London Yeah yeah yeah And I'm seeing everyone Being outside their house I'm like Right this is just like Like a mini Carnival But then I think With Carnival It's interesting what you say About when you You hadn't been in like Years I remember going Probably about three Four years ago And I went on a float I had an absolute time To the point where I think People looked at me as like Right boy Mo's I don't know he turns up like this Because So J2K He had a float He had a float So I went on there With some of my friends And they done like a collab With Adidas So you got me, Eddie Some of my friends on the float We got up really early Obviously you got to get there To get on the float Otherwise you can't get on the float Oh my god man When DJ's playing tracks And got thousands of people And I was like Hey pull it Pull it Pull it Pull it Hey wheel it again Wheel it again And he was like Yeah And then he said Yeah they're not doing The float next year And I don't know If that's because of me That the float No longer exists But If you're listening I do apologise But at the time of my life What did you do?

1:03:00What did you do? Bro when I mean Because obviously You have to play like Soca and stuff Yeah But I'm not the DJ innit But I was definitely In the DJ's ear Play gigs talking the hardest Run that one innit Play sneak boat Jet ski wave Run that one man But And I remember having like An after party Like with Like for the carnival And stuff Everyone's so tired Everyone's like bro It's I'm knackered Like I've been out All weekend I think what I love About carnival The fact that it's free As well And I feel like With everything in London You get charged for It's the one thing Where like It doesn't cost any money Do you know what I mean years ago.

1:03:39Yeah, you just have to turn up. And I love the hustle. I love just like, even when we was on the, we was on the float, you've got people selling magnums and I'm like, oh yeah, and our friend's down below walking. So we give him the money and give him the magnum and it's just like, the hustle is, is, is beautiful. And it's so weird. The food stands, people selling water, like out, out the front of their house. Yeah. Whistles. You can use a toilet. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. Three pound though. Three pound. Yeah. And I think we're, We take a lot of things for granted In London I think there's times Where we can be like Jay-Z's playing You've got a I don't know A football match happening And blah blah blah But when that comes together For two days Like we sit there And we go It's free Because now they charge For the fireworks Is that what they're doing?

1:04:28They charge New Year's Eve New Year's Eve They charge to watch fireworks You've got to buy a ticket To go on the bridge And they'll tell you It's because of numbers Yeah When I heard that I said come on man Not the fireworks Like We all record it On our phone Not to show anyone Like I've never I've never Hey bro Check out the Firework display But it's like Come on Give up I'm like You know my mum Would take us there And that would be Like our thing For like New Year's Eve Which would be like Cool like wrap up warm We're gonna go And watch the fireworks It became a thing To when I got older Me and my friends Would go Grab a little drink Watch the fireworks And to know For a generation It's like Yeah You have to now pay For that thing I don't realise How lucky we are To have Notting Hill Carnival So I could see why You enjoy Did you get recognised Yeah Yeah it did What surprised me Was the amount of friends Because when you think about it Like The numbers of people there Estimated between One and two million How am I bucking people I know In A throng of two million people Yeah yeah Like Every turn I was like Oh right Yeah We said, we said, like meeting people that, that I knew.

1:05:40So yeah, I got recognized, took photos. So my thing now is, or people's thing with me now is you were my childhood. And I said that to you when I seen you the other day. You did. Which again speaks to, you know, you could take it in, in any number of ways. Like man's trying to say you're old, but yeah, I am. I'm older. But when people say that, like, do you know how important the childhood is? And for someone to associate me with positive vibes of their childhood, come on. Yeah. That's, that's a, that's better than an award. You know what I mean? I'll take that. I'll take that all day. So yeah, I got recognized.

1:06:20But the music was lovely. The, the, the dancing was phenomenal to, to behold all of the, the jiggling and the wiggling and the whining. It was amazing. I'm going back. I'm going back. I, it makes me want to go carnival now. Because I want a holiday, innit? And I was like, I'd always switch off my phone and as soon as I'd go on there, I'd just see everyone's pictures and videos of carnival. And sometimes some of my friends are like, bro, now you, you, you can't go carnival. Do the mask, innit? No, and I did. And I remember doing the mask and me and my friend were trying to leave carnival. And then someone was like, hey, Mo, we know that's you.

1:07:00And I was like, oh, man. Oh, man. I tried to do it at the parade for Arsenal. Yeah. So I had glasses on. I put my shirt, like I kind of wrapped it over my head. Yeah. To kind of cover my face. And then someone was like, why has Mo got glasses on? I was like, oh, right. I'm on this street, right? But no, I think it comes with love, innit? Do you know what I mean? So, yeah. As you look at your legacy, right? Where, you know, you've got like someone like myself who's saying like, Like, bro, like you are the epitome of my childhood, waking up, you know, on a Saturday morning watching my favourite shows.

1:07:41But also like having like a young black man present them shows as well. I think at the time, I don't really know what it meant for me until I probably got a bit older. So I'd understand probably this world and this landscape a bit more. Like, and I'm like, wow, like things have, you know, of course, for myself, things have changed. But how do you feel like You know you've made an impact Because you've been doing this for You know 30 years now Do you know what I mean How do you look at that legacy in some ways I didn't appreciate it when I was in it But I think that's just one of the That's just part of being youthful and exuberant I always looked at being on television As an opportunity to show off a little bit let people know that there are people like us around and educate.

1:08:34Like I've always, like educating people is what I love. Like gadget shows, ultimately a consumer show. We're talking about phones, but like we're giving you information to help you make the right decision. Yeah. Yeah. So knowing that I was entertaining and empowering back then was more of a buzz than getting recognized. now looking back um i look at what the landscape was like so when i was on air for the most part the other black presenter would have been dj big ted who i did a bit of trouble with i did a lot of trouble with actually um uh michael underwood was doing bits for cbbc at the time um adeo Departan came a few years later.

1:09:28Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. But there really was a small handful of us. Um, and not all on at the same time. It's like, it was phases. Do you know what I mean? Andy Peters did his bit and then he left to go to another channel. It's like, Oh, we need to replace him. It was like a one in one out kind of team. Um, now we've got more of us, more of you. Uh, and it's beautiful to see. So looking back, I would like to believe that I influenced a lot of people that look like us to say, you know what? I see myself in him. So I know I can do it as well. Yeah. But I'm gonna do it my way. So for me, the channels or the ways in were restricted and there were gatekeepers.

1:10:20You had to go through a certain number of doors, gates, turnstiles in order to get your face on television. You could argue that I jumped a few by appearing on Blind Date. Again, it wasn't by design. But now we've got young men, young women like you who are picking up their phones and just saying, look, I want to talk to the people, but I'm going to do it my way. So let me turn on this camera and see where it goes. so there are it's easier to create your niche but there's more of you out there so the competition is just as high as it ever was but I've more chance of stumbling across a young black comedian now than I would have back then I would have had to have gone to a bonafide black comedy night for example I would have had to have gone to Hackney which for a South London Bray Like that's, that's a mission.

1:11:17In the 90s. Do you know what I mean? Exactly. There's no Uber. Now it's easier. And I'd like to think that there is, there was a handful of us broadcasting back then. Angelica Bell, of course, responsible for, you know, the wave of black talent that is doing bits now. So when I'm on my deathbed, I just want to be able to say, yeah I was partly responsible for that yeah no I believe you are I think you know anyone who gets to host a show like live and kicking and go from like we've got a competition to a guest to like now we've got Tasmanian devil and you sit there glued to it but also like you know for kids like myself I didn't we didn't grow up with a lot but having that felt like I knew I wouldn't win the competition I know that calling this line is gonna blow up my mums do you know what I mean my mum's phone line and stuff.

1:12:15But again, it felt like these are the faces that I trust of, you know, bringing me entertainment. Do you know what I mean? And it's until I think I've understood this landscape. And that's why I asked you of like live and what that's all like. And because you're like back, I know what it's like now and you've got the social media stuff and whatnot, but I can't imagine what it would have been like for a young black man then as well. Do you know what I mean? And I think that's why I'm so in awe of like yourself and Angelica Bell, you know, Reggie Yates, the list goes on and on of people that I grew up watching.

1:12:49And it, it makes, you know, the, the job that I do now sort of look easy and stuff where it's like, Oh yeah. Like, it does that kind of normal. And I'm like, yeah, but guys, this is, this was never like this. Do you know what I mean? So honestly, bro, it's such a pleasure to have you on the pod, man. Thanks for having me on, I really, really appreciate you coming on, man. And this has been your beginning, middle and end. Thank you so much I just appreciate you My brother Hey what's up people My name is Mo Gilligan I just want to thank you so much For listening And watching my podcast Now a lot goes into making This podcast As you can imagine I might be the person That's in front of the screen But it's really about the people That are behind the cameras And what I'd really appreciate What you could do for them Is one Give this a like That'll be great Hype it up That'll be amazing But most importantly If you could subscribe If you could just hit That little bit Just there and subscribe.

1:13:41The reason why that helps is it helps us build a community, what people like, what they want to see more of. And most importantly, it gets these podcasts straight to you. So you don't even have to look for them anymore. And how cool is that? Now, listen, if you do want to watch any other episodes, you can check out this episode down here and this episode just down here. I need you, Mo Gilligan. Take care. Peace.

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