Trigger Point’s Eric Shango on Vicky McClure, Almost Quitting & His Breakthrough

0:00Fall tastes better with better ingredients from Whole Foods Market. No added growth hormones or antibiotics in their meat department means slow braised short ribs are even more satisfying. All seafood is wild caught like their vibrant sockeye salmon or verified responsibly farmed. And all sweets, including fall themed cookies, are made without high fructose corn syrup. Spice up fall at Whole Foods Market.

0:30Mo Gilligan: Hey, what's up, people? My name is Mo Gilligan, and right now you're tuned into my podcast, Beginning, Middle and End. Now, today's guest is what I call the epitome of hustle, someone that gave themselves 72 hours, whether they'd even be in this chair speaking to me right now, to them booking as a drama alongside Vicky McClure on Trigger Point. We've met each other always in passing. I absolutely love this actor. I think he's going to be absolutely sensational. You're going to enjoy this episode. So please welcome Eric Chango. This is my first ever one Really? You know what I've prayed about things I'm a man of faith Yeah I mean I call it Walking the path of righteousness As opposed to Being a Christian Yeah Because I think that Maybe this is Podcast material I don't know But I think for me Everything is divine timing Yeah And I've always thought about my story I told one of my managers The story About my journey The other day And she was in tears Yeah And But the thing is I don't like when things are mad deep Yeah Like my life isn't It's a crazy story But it's not mad deep I just understand It's what comes with Whatever it is That God has called you to be Yeah yeah yeah Because The substance is what Maintains the blessing You know what I'm saying Yeah yeah yeah But I grew up in Enns bro And we laughed our way through pain You get me So When I see Yourself Eddie That's big bro Like And everything is funny It's because it is It's the irony You know what I'm saying?

1:58So the reason why I segued into that is because it's like, I prayed for the opportunity to tell my story. I've had opportunities to tell my story, but that's not the right platform.

2:08Mo Gilligan: Also, I guess it's timing as well because, you know, timing is everything. Sometimes you can tell your story or where you are in your time, which is like, I'm just vibing this is quite fun right now. And if I take people on, like you're saying, this journey and it gets a bit deep where I'm having the time of my life bro I just don't want that right now at all you know what I mean it's like yeah there's a time and a place for things or whatever and I think I think it's more so about just how you tell it it's like you know them people that like I don't know what you like with cursing and stuff you can say whatever you like on here man independent podcast bro I don't know what people are like when it comes to this thing where people feel like everything has to be everybody's trying to be Denzel yeah but I think the reason why is because we love Denzel.

2:58Mo Gilligan: So I think to counter that I know what you mean but Denzel is like I know what you mean because I've seen Denzel on like a podcast or something and I'm like he's a mad peak. I'm in. I believe. So I can see why everyone wants to be him because you're like wow I gotta tell my story like that. And it's like bro I hear it. For me Denzel is like an on-screen dad. Yeah. Like Unfortunately Me and my dad Were like a bit estranged You know what I'm saying And obviously we can get Into that a little bit But it's like One in It was kind of The marrying of the Both of the worlds My career And what I wanted to go on to do And how he's essentially The face of it The poster of it And then His rhetoric When he's talking Or when he's doing promotions Because that guy Don't do interviews That man doesn't do interviews I've had the pleasure Of actually meeting his family A couple of times Oh wow Yeah But um Big Tenzo Yeah bro Have you met him himself?

3:55I was supposed to But There was something that happened He didn't come to the breakfast He came later in the day It was when they were I think they were promoting The piano lesson That movie with John David But I had the privilege Of meeting his family And I think For me The way God has done Done things with me Is crazy bro Like I often don't even see myself As how people might receive me Might receive me because you're just so immersive in the journey, isn't it? So Denzel being the face of what it is that man does and then equally being like an on-screen father, to have that opportunity to meet his family, all these things do is just show me that you're one step closer.

4:41Just one step closer, one step closer. But I'm not going to get there trying to be like Denzel or trying to emulate whatever it is that he's done. I'm me. and the story that is mapped out for me is centered around me you know i'm saying so i can take a lot of inspiration because trust me i've watched everything that man has done i've watched every there's not an interview i haven't watched but then so one but i think i just don't i don't i think now that i'm in i'm a bit older i'm a bit more mature and everything has to be that deep yeah yeah do you know i'm saying it's like i've lived my life and i genuinely believe i've lived my life and had my experiences for the purposes of other people um but it's just because wherever god wants to take me what i have to go through is to maintain it the character is built in the test you know what i'm saying yeah yeah and of course it's getting deep i didn't want it to get deep but

5:34Mo Gilligan: yeah it's not deep it is but it isn't i don't know if that makes sense no it does make sense i mean yeah yeah yeah i feel like when you you're putting situations or positions similar to ours particularly yours I mean I don't think people are too familiar with what comes with it socially familiarly professionally what people have to put to the side or what you have to put to the side I think people receive our see our positions and they cover it because of what comes with it in terms of I don't know the more positive side of things the attention maybe even the financial aspect the access but I think you don't want to be in this position you know what it is with this position I think it is I never really understood smoke and mirrors I didn't really get the term and I've heard of it I know what it is but once you're in it you're like it's a lot of smoke and mirrors it's the best way to like honestly summarize it do you know what I mean honestly completely you're seeing a lot of surface level stuff you're seeing end product stuff you're seeing the best way I like to also describe it is do you know when you would like be at school and it's the end of, you know, you're about to get in six weeks holiday and that week where you're not really doing nothing.

6:49Mo Gilligan: And the teacher's like, yeah, just do a word search. And you're like, rah, this is vibing. Is this education? That is kind of what this is like. You're seeing people at the award show where like, this is vibing. This is the time where I can maybe network with someone. Hey, what's up? I get to wear a nice suit, blah, blah, blah. But listen, don't get twisted. On Monday morning, we start something brand new, with a brand new set of people. Or you go back to Monday and you're like, I go back to being me. I go back to maybe you could go back to struggling. You could go back to, you know, like that's why I like to use the term smoke and mirrors.

7:24Mo Gilligan: And I don't want anyone listening to this being like, oh, poor you. But it is very, it's very surface level stuff. I wanted to ask you, what does 72 hours mean to you? Do you know where I'm going with this? 72 hours mean to me? Yeah. That's such a broad question. You've probably asked. No, so 72 hours. I read that you had a 72 window. Oh, wow. I know where we're going with this. Yeah. And this was, I guess it's also quite significant because that 72 hour period is probably the reason why you're in this chair right now in some ways. Damn. Because I guess that was you being in one place of like, I might not want to continue with this.

8:22Mo Gilligan: Right. And then that 72 hour changing and then you're like, ah, now booked a huge epic job. What does that mean to you? We said we weren't going to get deep. Got to get deep, bro. Okay. 72 hours. What a beautiful question. I don't think it's been phrased that way before. 72 hours Was the difference between despair Being downcast Dejected And borderline depressed And being filled with Determination Desire And drive I don't know why I'm using the word D I look at that D a lot But yeah I think I think Before I got that phone call Or when I actually got the initial one About the project I guess I'll start off with where the year was Or where the years were And I was living with my mum at the time I just finished doing a A really cool play And I thought I was on my way The play was a play called Barbershop Chronicles And I've done it with a few Yeah A few people I thought I was on my way bro I was 23, 24 years old Fresh out in acting school That's it The environment in which I came from Now you're paying me to do what I love That was it And then the world kind of came to a halt with COVID And unfortunately everything that came with that People were lost We'd lost people The world, it was an unprecedented state, innit?

10:03And I think what it kind of compounded into was this sense of loss in terms of not knowing where I'm going. Like, obviously, biologically, the brain isn't even fully formed until after 25 or something like that. So there's all of that at play. So when that year, the year was 2020, when it all happened, I think we were just off, my mum nearly passed. She'd recently got married at the start of that year and her husband, who she just recently married, he nearly passed. And I lost my grandma about three days before my 25th birthday. Unfortunately, I wasn't in the greatest relationship at that time as well.

10:49And the career that I guess I put all my identity into, which was why I felt that despair. And a lot of us do that. A lot of actors put their identity in this acting thing and we're going to get to that. But all of that was together. And I'm a hustler by nature. I believe in Yeah you know Craft and You know you gotta work that Every day and whatever it is But I think there's an element Of a hustle That a lot of People in our field Probably don't realise Is required And so I felt I felt Really Unsure of myself And by the time It got to the audition For Trigger Point I'd given up Acting I said I can't do this anymore I'm gonna go and do What my friends are doing If you understand what I mean and in the process of all of that my agent at that time he called me and said that there's this job that's come through which was it was an original series like nothing there was nothing like it out at the time so they couldn't even provide me with much information I still felt what I felt and I was very hesitant towards doing it in fact I outright said I don't want to do it And it took some convincing from him to do it.

12:03I remember I did it over FaceTime because we weren't allowed in people's houses still. And then 72 hours later, I got a phone call. I was playing 2K, bro. I had my phone to my ear like this. I answered the phone because it was a nothing audition to me. Whether I got it or not, bro, I was playing 2K, 10 a.m. I remember it like it was yesterday. My agent calls me. He's like, yeah, you're right. Because obviously he's checking on my mental well-being. And I was just like Why are you calling me sir? And he was like Well the job The audition that you made the other day They've offered it to you I was like alright Great Like what does that mean?

12:44Because To be honest with you When I got the sides For the audition There wasn't really anything on the page There was a couple of lines

12:54Mo Gilligan: That's always described as meat and bones right? In terms of a script There's no meat and bones to it There was nothing there bro I've heard this Nothing So This man You've sent me some audition You're begging me to do it And there's nothing on the script Or nothing on the sides I don't I want to go and play Playstation And drown my sorrows Let me dunk on somebody Do you get what I mean? So I'm LeBron Let me be LeBron At least Vicariously But anyway So I had no expectation I had no I've got severe ADHD I don't even read emails I'll be so honest with you Like I don't read The full detail I miss so many details Just because of how It's almost like my brain Programs Is programmed to Misinformation That isn't key To what it deems Is important Yeah yeah So I didn't see What channel It was attached to What streaming service The characters Or the people Attached to it I didn't see anything Apart from the size That had nothing on it And at the time Ironically I was so broke bro I was so broke And I was like I remember The iPad That I did the audition on Yeah I remember I spoke to one of my Close friends I was like yo I'm gonna grab this iPad Yeah Cause I see you Got an iPad in it And I felt like I was a real In a consumer state Though I had nothing That's the irony Now that things are A bit different I don't buy anything But it's weird Anyway so he was like He was like yeah If you're gonna get it You're going to justify the purchase.

14:25You didn't get it, innit? And so I was like, all right, cool. I got it. When I got it, I was like, damn, it's like 800, 900 quid. I put that on a credit card, bro. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I said, you know, I'm going to refund this thing. I'm going to refund it and keep it. And I thought, you know what? I'm going to trust that God's going to see me through. I'm going to trust that God's going to see me through this. Whatever it is that he's going to fashion and forge something that will pay for this iPad. And I think 12 days, because I literally looked at it the other day for the first time. I don't know how many years I looked at it the other day, 12 days from when I made that decision, I got the audition.

15:03Did you think that you went into that audition and gave you a rule because you didn't see what was lying?

15:11Mo Gilligan: Because we spoke about the surface, what was lying under the surface. The fact that this amazing cast, it was going to be on ITV, you know, big, you know, Sunday night drama. and again the script didn't have I guess what you would want because if one of your idols are Denzel if that's screaming out to you on the script you're like oh this is a bit of me but like any script it kind of comes together once they've kind of found the character I only know this now through going through the process of script writing where you're like ah we can add this because now we know who's going to play the part they can say this line so do you think that was kind of the blessing that God said to you was just like, look, just free roam, like basketball.

15:58Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just take some free throws, some free throws, just vibe. Do you know what I mean? Mo, I think as human beings, we're so self-absorbed, bro. We're so wrapped up in what we're doing that we don't realise that humbly, you know, God might be fashioning something for it to be perfect for you. At the time, superficially, I'm looking at what everyone else has got going on And I'm thinking I want that I need that top boy role Or I need The surface stuff Do you get me? Shout out to all of those actors I need a super cell team I need something like that So you're not putting me into this world Where there's nothing on the bones And at that point I wasn't I guess fully knowledgeable About what script writing entails And how the development of characters can happen within a show and then also paying attention to the noise of people who aren't within the world eventually when the show would come out that wanting more early so in answer to kind of your question it worked out beautifully because now the character has his own identity that is an inspiration from elements of myself and I see a lot of myself in that character because we were around the same age at that time.

17:21Yeah. And I think that, that don't happen, you know? That don't happen often. I don't think it's very often that, I left acting school 2019. I got that show in 2021. The world was locked down for 18 months, maybe a little bit longer.

17:36Mo Gilligan: Yeah. So when we removed that element, it's pretty quick to end up in that kind of a scenario. But you're so wrapped up in that, in the day-to-day of it, that you're thinking, this is almost, this isn't what I thought it would be. Yeah. But it took years for me to realise it's exactly what it was meant to be. And developing that character, I've been given crazy opportunities within, you know, the show. I think in season two, my character, I believe in it, my character got married and the production, they approached me about curating that scene. You know, I feel like being Congolese, there isn't much of my country here.

18:21Maybe now a little bit more, but it's more... Since the World Cup. Since the World Cup. Because you know we're doing the drip thing, right? I'm doing the old money drip right now, but I would have put some Sapologie on for you guys. But yes, we haven't really had a stamp here yet. More so in Belgium and France, but not here. So any opportunity that makes sense contextually to put Congolese people on the map in terms of the richness of their culture. Because all people know is that it's full of civil wars, it's got bare minerals, and it gets exploited. It's a dangerous place to live. But that's like a fraction of that truth.

18:57Mo Gilligan: I think my introduction to Congo has always been Eddie. So I've only ever known the good. So when I hear about the conflict or the bad stuff, I'm like, oh, rah. I know the fashion, the music. Again, the dancing. Like I know every, cause I know that from Eddie straight away. Do you know what I mean? You say in terms of you wasn't, you know, use the word knowledgeable there, not knowledgeable. Am I right in thinking that you didn't know who Vicky McClure was until you met her? People are going to kill me for this. I had no idea who that woman was. I had no clue. I hadn't watched Line of Duty. I remember When it was advertised Years ago On film 4 That This Is England Was around Yeah yeah yeah But I ain't watching that show I'm watching Ed Ed and Eddie Yeah So I'm not

19:58I don't know Who the hell A Vicky McClure is Yeah So When I was at drama school This is right 2018 times Adrian Lester Came to the school

20:11Mo Gilligan: Bigger Adrian Yeah Adrian Lester Came to the school Because the building Moved from North London To South London In Peckham To be exact And I think he's from Did you go Mountview I did go Mountview Yeah He's from around that area So They brought him in And me being hungry Hustler Proximity is everything So if I can get close To Adrian I'm 1 % closer If I can get close To Mo Gilligan I'm 1 % closer So I was able to Kind of sneak Like a little two minute Conversation with him Where he's just giving some game Now That's the first and last time I saw him What I didn't know Is that the school Had brought him back To do a whole talk But my time at drama school Wasn't pleasant So any time I was away from there Outside of when I can extract I wasn't trying to be in that place I'm out of there That's a lot of people I'm out of there bro Because drama schools I mean They probably need a little bit Of help now But I don't necessarily feel like Like they were at least then designed inclusively for everybody.

21:14That might be what it said on the surface, but the actual day-to-day experience, I don't think they were really ready for it because they weren't ready to deal with people like myself and other students who came through the doors who were similar to where we come from. So that was that story. The next time I saw Adrian Lester was on set for Trigger Point Season 1.

21:31Mo Gilligan: Oh, bro. That is a real full circle moment. The next time I saw him, He didn't remember who I was Until I told him Do you remember when you came to Mountview And we had a sidebar talk And he said Oh my god What an honour this is For him Wow I was like What an honour You were in hustle Yeah After Denzel It was you I wanted to be like you Yeah Girlfriends Yeah man Yeah man I wanted to be around the galley Do you know what I mean But In all seriousness Yeah bro So I met AJ Lesnar then and I saw him on set I met Nabil who plays Hass in a very similar fashion I saw him at the Park Theatre in North London And really earnest, endearing, loving man Who would give the worst person in the world his time, right?

22:24The next time I saw him I was on set Wow When I met Vicky I remember going around and just knowing that How you go around and present yourself in a room and how welcoming or hospitable you are. It's how people will remember you, isn't it?

22:40Mo Gilligan: Because this is, so if I'm picturing the scene, is this like a script reading, would you say? Yeah, I think it was that. Yeah, it was the first time we'd all met. Yeah, because that's where it's like square tables. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very, very intense. Everyone's got their name on a thing with the script. They do like a, hey, do you want to introduce who you are? Oh, it was before all of that, bro. Oh, really? It was before that. We walking in We're walking in I think it was a day That we did a lot of training In it Like we had to do a lot of Bomb training and stuff As you would imagine Bro I woke up Towards I'm just going around Saying hi to everybody Production coordinator Hair and makeup I'm just going around To everyone Because I'm like I'm Eric And I'm Hello Do you get me This is who I am Of course So It could have been The cleaner Next to The exec I wouldn't have known Any different If that makes sense So the next person in line Naturally was just Vicky So I've talked to her I'm like oh what's going on My name's Eric Shango Lovely to meet you What's your name She's going who me She had a sushi sandwich In her mouth She's like who me Oh my name's Vicky I was like I'd love to meet you Walked off And then Nabil's come over to me He said next time It'll probably do you good To know who the number one is And I was like Oh Oh okay It still didn't really mean anything to me though And I think that's what she loved about it You gave everyone the same love and energy Do you know what I mean?

24:09I've seen you a couple of times A few times And I think you're very similar You and her In that it doesn't matter who you're speaking to Whether you're speaking to, I don't know The guy that owns Netflix Or the guy that points people where to park their cars You guys are the same And I think that's a big part of Why Vicky is where she is and why you are where you are and why I hope to be

24:34Mo Gilligan: in the same place. You know what I mean? Come on. I see where the NTA is, bro. Front row as well, you know. I've seen you a couple of times. Do this humble stuff. I've seen you a couple of times, bro. We've seen each other in good places. A couple of times. It's like at the lounge in Budapest. Bro, we say, yeah. We say, yeah. Shame out the game, innit? Yeah. Same, my brother. Bro, it's actually called it. Anyway, as you've seen. Listen man I'm still getting used to it bro I'm still getting used to it But Yeah Vicky We We hit it off bro That's That's my sister She actually told me something That changed The course of my destination In terms of my career She changed it It was the hottest day of the year 2021 And I was out partying all night Because I'm 26 I'm young and I'm lit Yeah I've just hit a TV show I'm gone Gone I've been there I'm gone You're the party.

25:31Mo Gilligan: You know when you doubt people like this? You don't link it. What's wrong with my right uncle? You get me? Don't touch me. This is expensive material. Not the clothes. Me. Yeah. But you don't tell them what you booked. You're like, it's got something coming up still. What? I swear. Elusive. Love me. Something like. You get me? It's not like. So, we're in Seoul House. 180 House. Bianca Saunders is throwing a mad party bro This is my first entry to this type of world Bro we were on tables I think I was topless We're getting mad My cool time is at 6am I remember I wanted to leave And they were like nah these are the rules When you're new to here you gotta firm it And I had a whole day of driving Stunts on the A13 They blocked out the whole A road Bro I swear They blocked out the whole A road You're doing picantes What?

26:27Picantes on the table Do you get me? I probably shouldn't even be saying this But allegedly Yeah, yeah, allegedly We had police escorts, everything The whole nine And so we go and do this driving scene It's just me and Vicky, all the other cars are They're not on set that day Great day Sick directors in the car We're just doing a whole bunch of driving, right? Lunchtime comes, she pulls me to the side She sits me down I don't even know where this came from whether she was watching me or whatever but she just sits me down and she goes listen man I want to tell you something I said no okay go on because we speak so candidly when you finish this job it's going to feel like you're meant to fly Fall tastes better with better ingredients from Whole Foods Market no added growth hormones or antibiotics in their meat department means slow braised short ribs are even more satisfying All seafood is wild caught, like their vibrant sockeye salmon or verified responsibly farmed.

27:30And all sweets, including fall-themed cookies, are made without high-fructose corn syrup. Spice up fall at Whole Foods Market. Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like. And that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance.

28:08Sessions average$21 with insurance and some pay as little as$0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality, licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash ACAST.

28:46That's growtherapy.com slash ACAST. growtherapy.com slash ACAST. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

29:02But you might not. And I looked at her like she was crazy. It's not like everything had been going smoothly up until that point, but I was in a window. You know when there's wind, like you've got a battery in your back, Like I've gone drama school. I've come out of drama school. I've got a decent agent, decent agent. I've bagged a mad play, going around, you know, UK, gone to New York, come back, grabbed the little Apple TV thing just before lockdown. What are you talking about, Vicky? You don't know what you're talking about. You're going to go on to do well, but it's not going to feel how you think it's going to feel.

29:42And I just want you to be mindful of that. That was the best advice I have ever heard Ever Because If we go back to the smokes and mirrors analogy There is a Misconception about how this thing works Our career is not linear It doesn't go up People might see that But they're probably watching stuff that you shot two years ago And it's coming out now Or the fact that At that point that it's coming out The tax man's on your ass

30:15Mo Gilligan: I said bro You understand I see you in that 180 bro You're top off bro You get me I need my peas you know I need my peas Yeah Right And that This thing of ours This thing of ours As they say in the Godfather It's not what you think it is And I've never wanted to be a proponent of that I don't push the smokes and mirrors I'm not necessarily someone that's loud about the reality of it because I don't want to be famous. I don't feel like I'm the voice of the people. And I genuinely believe that the game is sold and it's not told. But that advice allowed me to be open to receive the reality and the possibility of what could be.

31:02Exposure is some of the best, what do they call it? Exposure therapy is some of the best forms of teaching or way that you can learn ever. And so by her telling me that, And the irony was coming from somebody that's doing really, really well.

31:14Mo Gilligan: This is a BAFTA winner, bro, telling me this. And I'm sat next to you. And people are giving me mad clout and mad attention and mad energy because I'm sat next to you. And up until this point, proximity means to me that once you're near, you're there. So how are you now telling me in the same vein that, oh, you might fly and then you might not? This is someone that went on the Graham Norton show and said my name. I'm from Island, bro. And not the nice part. Like All I've ever seen Was drug addicts And drug dealers My friends being Stabbed at 14 Do you get what I'm saying Getting into all sorts of stuff Like But I'm fortunate To have avoided it What do you mean I'm not gonna fly after this This is the way That it's always supposed to go I was raised by a single mum She Damn near Wanted to put me out of her house For choosing a career like this I'm here now What do you mean I'm not supposed to fly after this But years later She ended up being right That feeling of It feels like you're going to fly What does that feel like Because In my world of comedy Like It's You can It's the feeling of like Oh I'm going to do this tour and this tour is going to be successful.

32:39Mo Gilligan: Bring out this special and it's going to be the one that people love. But again, with comedy, it's such a, you're tapping into what makes someone laugh. Whereas I don't know what that's like with acting because I've only seen a small percentage of it, but you could make and record the best thing ever. But if the studio hasn't promoted it well, nobody sees it if that makes sense but then it can get mass explosion but then when you see the final cut you're like why are you not cut this you cut that because I guess comedy is different because you're in control of okay I want that bit there I want that bit there I want that to look like that whereas I've heard of the stories of an actor going to a premiere you know with their loved ones and then being like what what do you what do you mean you cut all my parts and I'm not being told that doesn't happen in my world So that feeling of flight What is that What's that pre-feeling like For no one that has ever felt that I think it's usually predicated on the people involved The size of the production The story Probably the financial aspect Or financial package Where you're shooting as well I think Often people call our jobs Privileges because of those Things but the privilege is simply connected to the fact that we're doing what we love.

34:07That is it. Yes, of course, the pay pack is cool. And it's almost like we get paid twice with attention when the show comes out and then when we were doing whatever it is that we were doing. It's a great way to put it, actually. But again, I don't want to over-highlight the things that we wrestle with in that, but I think that we know that that part of silence might come back around the corner where the phone doesn't ring as much because we might shoot something in 2024, but it don't come out till 2025. So no one knows that you've actually done it because they don't start promoting it until they're ready to release their show.

34:47What's that feeling like? Do you know what it is, bro? What I realised when I left drama school, though I went straight into something, was you have to build the ability to adapt mad fast, incredibly quickly. because human beings are subject to routine. We're creatures of habit. We need routine, otherwise we lose it. So I had to find the base level of routine, which was something I found during that 2020, 2021 period before obviously I got the show. And I think that when you come out of people picking you up in a nice Mercedes every day, meeting you, lovely. S-Class, S-Class. You had the BMW with the fucking TV coming out.

35:36Oh my God. Oh my God. Bro, I told you, I'm from Islam. I was getting that bus. You know what I mean? My mum had cars. She had mice in her car, rude boy. And now I have people coming up to open the door out of the 7 Series Bimmer. But yeah, so it's like, when you have that, people waiting around every two seconds to give you green tea or whatever it is. And you get your food brought to you and ask every 10 minutes if you need something. That is not a real world. It's not. And then it all stops. And that's a wrap. Everyone starts clapping. It's over. And you go back to getting on that tube. You go back to figuring out what you're going to eat for yourself.

36:22You go back to not knowing what you're going to do that day. And you have to create that routine. And it's, there is no training for this No one preps you for this stuff No one preps you either For when this show comes out And how to deal with Whatever may come Either nothing or everything Big up Daniel Kaluuya Somebody like that Somebody like John Boyega That from one minute therein ends Doing whatever And of course with Daniel there was a big period Where we didn't see him and he's probably grafting and going through it. Then this brother wins an Oscar and everything changes. Or John Boyega becomes Star Wars or what seems like, becomes, is it Finn?

37:09I think he played Finn or something like that in Star Wars overnight, seemingly. And he's a household name now. And there's these expectations of these great men with no prep. So that flight that you're referring to is connected to obviously the world and the package and whatever, but ultimately how we handle it in and of ourselves, we're figuring it out every day, bro. So all I had was that routine. You go to the gym, say a little one-two prayer, and you might watch a film or you might read a script or whatever. And then hopefully the phone rings or hopefully, you know it's just something shakes but

37:57Mo Gilligan: is it hard putting your energy into something outside of what you do where knowing that you could get the script that you've got to go to film something in another part of the world and you're like I'm trying to focus on this because I'm quite fortunate in the line of work that I do that it's like oh I can do a podcast and I can plan that with a tour and TV and stuff but I can't imagine what it would feel like where you're like Okay cool I'm doing I don't know You've got your own Theatre group That you're trying to run And Or you've got an idea For a script You're trying to do With your friend And you're trying to sit And write And you're like I've got to do a self-tape Friday And Tuesday You might book that job And then everything changes And by Friday Saturday They're flying you out So How do you How does an actor Manage that There is no management For that bro There is none And agents My god I mean it's not Their responsibility of course but agents are not telling their clients that this is what you've got to do so it is literally figuring it out as you go along yeah and um man the amount of actors that i know that are struggling with this right now that don't know how to run this course bro i can't tell you so many actors i know some of them are friends dear friends at that are struggling more with depression this industry has become it's so depleted of opportunity and and hope these people are in dire dire straits bro just because of what we're discussing right now yeah this routine this feeling of flight or it's just like with arsenal before we won the league it was the hope that kills it was killing it was the hope that kills right but and i feel it for them because this is why i go back to what i'm saying i'm a hustler i look at anything anything and everything i believe via the grace of god i fashioned trigger point it was it was always going to happen yeah it was always going to happen when we were doing barbershop because i was coming off you know coming enough of doing things with my friends before I got into drama school.

40:15I was like, right, we're doing this play. We're doing eight shows a week. Eight shows a week. Arguably more exhausting than filming at 5 a.m. every day. Yeah. And this is what we're getting back in terms of money. I'm looking at it like a business because that's how I'm used to dealing with things. And I was like, this doesn't seem like it makes sense. I feel like in order to be a theatre actor, you kind of need to afford it. It kind of just ties you over a bit. So I said, okay, cool. I want to do TV now. Obviously for the love of the medium and the craft, of course. But I want to make sure I can afford doing what I love, which is performance.

40:56So I started doing this thing where I would whittle it down to the most common denominator. And ultimately, your network is the currency, who you know.

41:06Mo Gilligan: Yeah. I'm an actor that's unknown at that point. I mean, I'm probably still unknown, but definitely then. So I'm like, let me make my agent's job easier. Why would I wait for auditions to come through? Why am I waiting? I got a good advice from a great actor called Paul Bullion. And he was like, I don't wait for the phone to ring. I don't know what that looks like until it's presented before you. So I started going into these workshops with casting directors. Because if casting directors know who I am and they can take a liking to me, then the chances are I'll be looked upon more favourably and increase the probability of booking jobs.

41:40And that's exactly what happened. And what are these workshops? They're workshops. I mean, I don't want to give people no plugs, but there was a... We got to roll up that check. I worked my ass off together. Now I'm with the big bro. You don't want to get free credit. I need 50 free sessions for young actors out of drama schools. But there's two schools. one called Mixing Networks and one called Actors Guild. They were charging about£30 a session at that point. And whenever we would come back to London after being in the city, somewhere in the UK, I'd go and do a couple of classes with one of my good friends.

42:15She's an actor too. We did that, I don't know, maybe seven, eight times before eventually we struck. And before the turn of the year, so 2019, before the turn of the year, when we got back from New York, from the Inbaba Shop, I did one with a lovely casting director who I'll always shout her out, Amy Jackson. She was working for Amy Hubbard's office at the time. And there was something called, a TV show called Suspicion, which had, how can I forget her name? Canal Nail, I believe is the guy from Big Bang Theory, playing the lead, and Uma Thurman. So it was a UK-US show, but I forgot the UK actors.

42:55And she casted me in this show because I'd gone to one of her workshops. I emailed her and said, listen, if there's anything knocking about, would love to do an audition for you or the office. Came in. I think I did about four auditions that week. It was actually the week I ended up breaking up with my ex at the time. It was crazy, crazy week. But ended up getting it. And, but the audition came through my agent. So obviously agents would be like, oh yeah, this thing's coming for you. As if they've done all the work or whatever it is. But it was all of that in the meantime, right? Then we did this show and now I'm exposed to the world of TV.

43:34When I was doing barbershop I'd had to do eight shows a week In order to make a fifth of what I made doing that That one featured little guest role Or guest, they guest play a role On that TV show, right? And I said, okay, I'm sold I'm now in this TV world But it was something that my agent could use To tell other casting directors Look, he's on TV He can show people he's on TV There's a presence on TV And from all of that Eventually came more and more screen auditions I didn't go back to doing them Because obviously the world got locked down at that point But it was the seed For what eventually led me into being Into TV now So I often look at a lot of actors and I'm like Guys, I understand it's a love of the craft And whatever it is But unfortunately that time Probably left about 15 years ago where it was just about craft.

44:33It's business. This is a fast moving world now. It's about how much money can you put in someone's pocket. When you are able to get to that point, then you can begin to explore your creative impulses. But really and truly, if you want to get into this business, oh man, it's that music right now.

44:51Mo Gilligan: I think the business of the world that people love, they can kind of put to one side and be like, well, you know, if I'm the best and I do this, and I do also, I do believe in that, but there is also a coin that has to be made for somebody. And for yourself. Of course. Because let's be honest, you know, the best opportunity could come and you could sit there and be like, I'll do it for free. Right. But then you realise you're like, well, I also could get paid for it. Right. As well. And I think it's that side of any, I think, art form that you sit there and it's the, okay, cool. Like this is a business and you do start to understand decisions that sometimes are made that you can't even hold a grudge to.

45:40Mo Gilligan: Right. You know, again, scripts that I feel like it should have been commissioned. Right. And it didn't. I'm like, that's the business side of it. Mo's got to put that side to it and say, do you know what? It's what it is. The art, we make something else. So let's just crack on. So we leave that to one side and you crack. But it is definitely, I think, the one thing that any creative massively struggles with. Because there's the business side that you now have to do. Like you're saying taxes or all those other things. But also like, I need some rainy day money. I need some, what can I sell tomorrow money?

46:14Mo Gilligan: But I also need like a, it's like you're saying, like, cool. I don't need to go LA, but maybe going might open up some new opportunities. I don't know. It's like you know you're wasting and burning money, but at the same time you're like, this could equate to more opportunities, if that makes sense. 100 % bro. I feel like some of the biggest blessings have come from me taking a risk. One of my brothers asked me the last time I had a fuck it moment. When was the last time you had a fuck it moment? In lieu of something. There's a white friend that's a day, isn't it? He's not black.

46:58Mo Gilligan: You know why? Because someone said something I'd asked me before and he went black but again I was like yeah I was fuck it man I'm getting salvages fuck it and I'm like what? Hey I don't need this He said this to me He said this to me recently right He said bro when's the last time you had a fucking moment? And I was like what do you mean? And he was like in terms of your career when's the last time you took a gamble on yourself and I thought about the last time I'd done it and obviously it was the whole iPad thing for me because I was like you know I'm just going to do this I had no thought I wasn't sure what's going to happen and do that right and I think it gets to points in your career where that effort moment just looks different so before saying effort might have cost you money and you're worried because you don't have an abundance of money So there's great risk attached to that And stakes there, isn't it?

47:54But then you get cool And you can pay your bills Taxman, fine, whatever Then it's about Your A career choice And what that does to the reputation Or What it does to your brand As a comedian Or as an actor And it's like Is this a smart move? If people now see me in this light Do I go from Stand up in Comedy clubs To specials Or from Instagram To comedy clubs Like whatever that transition is It's like that epic moment right Or do I get some money And go over to LA And see if I can hit it off there It's essentially the promise Of nothing But the hopes of everything Which is essentially The definition of faith In the Bible by the way

48:36Mo Gilligan: Yeah yeah And It's like I can't This is not a podcast Or it's an episode Where it's just geared at actors But man my heart is bleeding For a lot of them Because You either have to have Incredible self-belief To do this thing Like I almost feel like You've got to be Borderline narcissistic A little bit Like just a little bit Not unhealthily so But just a little bit Or You have to Have an abundance Of money Of finance So that The risks don't actually Feel like risks Then when you have An abundance of finance I don't know what that does To your I guess to your Creative impulses Because it's You know that It's always going to Kind of be there so where you're performing from where you're doing things from is probably not from the same place and I could be wrong in saying that but that's just especially when you're starting out in my world and so I think not many people can afford to do that but the business has gone to such a place where it's like it isn't enough to just be an actor anymore it's not it's over my little brother he called me when I was in Ghana one time and was like oh I've decided I want to be an actor this was completely out of blue and I was like oh where did that come from he's I've been watching you for a time and I've decided this is what I want to do now and I when I got back I sat on the phone for three hours and told him why he shouldn't do it because it's just not what what what you see it's just not that bro it's not that at all please don't be fooled and after three hours of berating him with why he shouldn't do this thing he went and he auditioned to get into drama school he didn't even tell me big him up he got through he's done his three years he's now left but what i was telling him throughout was kind of what vicky told me behind them bins on our lunch break that this is what you see with me is a different thing i'm one of maybe therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough It shows up in the smallest moments.

50:46You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like, and that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average$21 with insurance and some pay as little as$0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the U.S.

51:24offering both virtual and in-person sessions nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash ACAST. That's growtherapy.com slash ACAST. growtherapy.com slash ACAST. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. Fall tastes better with better ingredients from Whole Foods Market. No added growth hormones or antibiotics in their meat department means slow-braised short ribs are even more satisfying.

52:10All seafood is wild-caught, like their vibrant sockeye salmon or verified responsibly farmed. And all sweets, including fall-themed cookies, are made without high-fructose corn syrup. Spice up fall at Whole Foods Market.

52:30100 ,000, maybe a million of people who have this kind of a trajectory. It doesn't happen, bro. And the industry is changing so fast that the gaps between how often it happens is only getting bigger and bigger. Because their requirements and what they want is changing all the time. We're not privy to that. Most of it is attached to money. And I hear it. I'm a businessman. I've put 10 million into a project. I want more Gilligan Not Eric the comedian In there

52:58Mo Gilligan: I've spoken to people When it comes to like You know Production companies And People who are not From this world Right And they're like Yeah I want to invest And understand And I'm like If you don't understand it There's no point In getting involved Because You know If you come from a world Of business And you're like Cool I would You're going to put A level of money in That you want in return Yeah But Knowing that It's like This could tank So You do know that right You do understand that this is how this world works, that this could tank. Oh, but yeah, it's like, no, no, this ain't that business.

53:31Mo Gilligan: Like if you've come from real estate, properties or whatever, and now you're looking at it as like, yeah, I want to create a series, man. You can lead it and re-te-te-te. And I'm like, it don't work like that, you know? If you're looking at, Game of Thrones is made by HBO, bro. We're not making it on YouTube, bro. I'm calling out a favour, Zach. Hey, bro, you're free Wednesday. Bro. I beg you to drop a little thing On the scene Please And I think that's the difference Of the business Of this world In terms of like Where you are now Because We were saying about How we've seen each other In Budapest Final Champions League And stuff How do you start to like Enjoy like your time off now Because you know You get to Like I've seen a picture of you And Josh Conker For example Yeah What are those moments like Because you know You're from Islington You're at the Arsenal game You're there with You know Respectfully Like He's basically the owner I know his dad's involved And stuff But Josh is like The main guy What's it like now When you're in like Not even these rooms But you're in these places That Again You're about your business As well And you can network With people that you're like Normally I would network With maybe like an actor Now I'm here with A CEO Or You know What does that World start to Look and feel like For you now So there's two questions there how do I join myself on this time off I think I was telling my manager about this the other day and she was one of them she was she was getting on to me because she's like life with me feels like it's a constant train it just doesn't stop her sleep since she started working with me she doesn't sleep and I think that's probably trauma a little bit and my response to her to her question of like when when does it stop when do you like the same question um is that for me I've really struggled with being present I've been in therapy for two years bro I've wrestled with so many demons and not literal demons but you know in a metaphorical sense and I've had to look inwardly so much in these last two years so that we can deal with all of that so that I can have an answer about how I have good time.

55:55I mean, I don't really see my family as much. It's always in passing. And I always try to fit people in. So it would never be a present moment of just nothingness with whoever. It would always be connected to something so that my time is being used efficiently. And what I found is It affects my presentness If that's a word Like I'm not present And I think The only time I probably am present Is when I'm with God But what happens with that That's very dangerous Because life just passes you by It just passes you by And two years turns into five Five turns into ten And you don't even There's a risk of not even knowing who you really are in my times of dance I mean I play football with my friends a lot Aaron and other actors and stuff like that I think that's really it everything else feels like work now everything yeah going to Arsenal games I don't even once Arsenal won the league it was almost like it was over end of chapter close for me now I love my team I love what they've done the people behind it everyone From Josh all the way down, they've done an amazing job.

57:20But it's almost like now it's turned into something else for me, especially being in that side of it.

57:28Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah. And I think the answer to your other question, if I'm not mistaken, it was how do I navigate that side of things now? I kind of mentioned a couple of times, bro. I'm a hustler bruv In every sense of the word Hustlers find opportunity Create opportunity Where there is none And so A lot of actors Of course they come into it Acting is their main thing And it's their only thing I think Poverty And being Growing up in very Like Difficult circumstances Has meant that You have to Create opportunity when there isn't one. I think that aligned with God for me is my flipping superpower, right?

58:19But when you're in these spaces and you're in these rooms, because you come from a place of poverty, you're always thinking, okay, how do we extract? Now, for me, I think extraction from a transactional point is deplorable because you find that all your relationships are superficial. They're superficial. And I think part of being in that 2020 was kind of realizing that and finding that if you believe in God's timing, then I might see you. I've seen you many times. And our interactions are always very pleasant and they're very positive and they're very cordial. but I know from the people that you know you're surrounded by that you're a very real person I've heard a lot of good things about you and in the right time if it's in God's will for you to develop a relationship then it's gonna happen and I don't need to force that I don't need to move from a place of fear, which is what 95 % of the world's population kind of where they move from.

59:38It's just fear. That opportunity is not going to be there. That money is not going to come. This job opportunity isn't going to, like my health isn't going to get, it's just fear. And I had to disconnect myself from that. Very, very painful thing to do. Because even in the disconnection from that, there's still no hopes of anything. You've got to fashion that hope. So how that affects when I meet people is I'm just happy to have met you It's just gratitude Because the proximity means I'm transcending But I don't need to force it I don't need to force being your friend here You're just a great guy to speak to You've done really well for yourself And I'm on the way If there's things we talk about that we relate on And we connect with, then sick

1:00:22Mo Gilligan: We both love Arsenal Let's go to a game That's it But nothing forced or contrived I'm not into all of that I don't want to work with someone And make money with them Just because they're somebody To tick a box with If that makes sense And I guess for you as well Like It's that thing where When you know A relationship starts And as for me anyway as well Like If a relationship starts With an transactional Then It's like the trust Kind of goes out the window Anyway Because it's just like Yeah this feels awkward bro Bro Like do you know what I mean Of course Like yeah man come to the thing Yeah like you Post that as well Bro And I'm like, what?

1:00:59Mo Gilligan: Hey, man. Like you're some dog. Some TikTok dog. Yeah. Did you get me? But you're like, right, bro? Is this what? Oh, cool. And it's like, it's the same with sometimes with brands. Where they'll be like, yeah, no, come, it's free. You don't need to post and blah, blah, blah. You're like, yeah, all right, well, cool. And then you get a message. Because I will do it organically. And I will post the shit out of this for just vibes because I want to. but then it's like yeah are you gonna where's the pictures have you where's the posing can you send us the data I was like I thought this was vibes for free bro you told me to come here they wouldn't wear these clothes no more do you know what I mean yeah like you told me to come here yeah yeah so I completely I completely like endorse that bro it's like it feels different you you can feel the difference between a contrived situation and when people are genuinely drawn towards you just because of who you are.

1:01:58Like you could have been Mo working in Joe Malone and mandem still F with you or a brand still F with you because of the essence of who you are. And again, that's what translates in what you do, bro. Even in your comedy, bro, I'm a big, big fan.

1:02:10Mo Gilligan: Oh, thank you, bro. And it's like you can tell it's kind of like Drewski. You know, obviously his Stephen Bartlett thing come out recently. And it's like He kind of details For those that haven't seen it anyway Where the source of his comedy comes from And it's just people that he's seen And equating it to yours I can tell This is a man who's seen all these people Oh yeah, they're seen, they're lived But you know what's happened now Is that I meet people And they're like You're probably going to make a sketch now I was like, hey, hey, chill out bro It don't work like that bro I got people coming up to me in the rave like something might happen.

1:02:55Mo Gilligan: Someone could slip or whatever. And it's like, Hey brother, you dog, dude, dude, the funny thing. Don't get me. You know, I'm like, Hey, chill out. We ain't doing that today. Yeah. Before we end. Yeah. Um, like, how'd you start to like, look at what you want to start doing like the next, like 20 years? Because, you know, I've had a lot of actors on here and you speak about, you know, the struggles of where, you know, Actors are right now suffering with depression. And also just knowing when is the next job coming. But how do you start to shape that in some ways for your end? What's the next dream?

1:03:34Mo Gilligan: Because, again, you're someone who wants to hustle. And it's not to say that is it ever going to run out? But do you want to just get to a point where you're like, I don't want to hustle anymore. I just want to wake up. Like you're doing now, I want to wake up and do what I do, but kind of pretty much a bit more on my terms in some ways. Yeah. I think that, again, I'll just link it back to Faith, bro. This sounds just so repetitive and cliche, but for those who understand, and I hope that everyone comes into an understanding of that, when you place it back to the person who gave you the gifts and the access in the first place, I don't really think about it that way I think it says Proverbs 16 About committing your plans to the Lord Then you just have dreams And things that you want to do And you want to achieve right And there's laws that go about that Biblically About how that's achieved And if it's in God's world Then they'll come about But Yeah I think I don't Want to be In that place Or ever Go back to being in a place of where things are out of my control and not on my terms.

1:04:50I think I want to be in an autonomous place and we're working towards creating that. I think to sit here and talk about the types of roles I want to do, I think is quite redundant. I want to tell good stories. I want to work with amazing people. One thing Triggerpoint has done, it has spoiled me with the working environment. If you came to say you'd feel like you'd known us for 10 years And I think that That's what I've been spoiled with So I just want to work With good people I want to work with Really creative directors And producers And I want The industry To move away From a place of fear And scarcity And get back to Employing people You know It's funny enough I brought something I brought something I wrote to myself Well at the time I wrote it to myself I wrote it to God It's the first time I've shown this publicly And I spoke about The Agent Lester thing In terms of meeting him I spoke about The iPad I spoke about These very Serendipitous Moments right And when I finished Filming Trigger Point In 2021 I wrote I wanted to clean out Where I was living I wanted to redo it sorry I wanted to clear All the clutter out When I was clearing out All the clutter I found this letter And from the handwriting first of all i could tell i was very very young how young i'm thinking maybe 17 16 no more than 17.

1:06:23whenever i read this letter it makes me incredibly emotional i'll read it it says dear lord so obviously wrote it to god i know what you're capable of and i know what you can do for people you've taken the most inconsiderate people in society and made them kings. You've taken some of the poorest of the poor and made them some of the wealthiest people to ever cross the face of the earth. You've taken the dead and made them rise and that's how I know that you can do anything and I refuse to go to anyone else. I've thought about going to some of the darkest places. I've even thought about selling my soul, experimenting with things that I know are not good for me but as one of your children I know the consequences.

1:07:09That's why I come to you You're the giver of all givers And that's why I'm going to make this sacrifice So the little that I can do To make you aware of where I want to go I want to be one of the most wise, most intelligent, most loved, most happy people I want to be an actor, Lord I want to make it I want to make it in global cinemas, global TV, global shows and take my family away from poverty. Lord, I was thinking about doing so many things, but it's because I'm desperate.

1:07:51I'm desperate to make it, Father. I sincerely ask for your help.

1:08:01Please, Lord, hear my prayer. Please hear what I ask Because I want to make my family proud I want to be able to do right by my parents Get them whatever they want I want my family to be in peace I also want them to be happy So our love for you can grow Open our minds, open our ears And our souls for your love In Jesus' name, Amen Amen

1:08:30Mo Gilligan: When did you write that down? I think it might have been 2012, 2011, 2012. I was no more than 16, 17 at the time. Wow. When I found this letter, the first thing that came to my mind was, God, you've been listening the whole time. You give her energy like you really enjoy the space that you're in. And if more comes That's great But To be so self-aware To understand that You know Mr. Motivator Who we had recently On the podcast Is that There's gonna be Some of them winters Yeah And winters are hard And I think Like anyone You know We all We all get ready When's that winter coming I don't know man Yeah Grey clouds What does that mean But it's warm Yeah So I can still wear a t-shirt Uh huh But then it hits you one day Where you forget your jacket And it's cold Right And the Uber ain't coming.

1:09:29Mo Gilligan: Do you know what I mean? And you're outside in the cold and people see you like, I ain't got no coat on. And I use that metaphor from what he told me a lot of how I've been in that place where you're like, it's dark. Gets dark at three o 'clock. And it's a different dark when you know there's a light. When it gets dark in the winter, you're prepped for it. Dark, cool. Wrap up, gonna go home early. You know what I mean? Put the heating on for a bit. But when it's dark, you're like, put the heating on. I ain't got money for it. And to see anyone come through that full circle is always, you know, I always see it as like you can tell when someone's had that glow because I've been through that.

1:10:10Mo Gilligan: Do you know what I mean? So when you see someone, the energy is like, I know. It might have been different paths we've been on, but I know because I understand the glow. And I promise you, I think it's sometimes, it's in that greeting. I feel like that's the spark Two glows Bow the light We said Yay So before we leave I've got some quick fire questions Let's do them Quick fire Here we go Boom Theatre or TV You can only do one For the rest of your life Theatre Theatre Oh really Yeah Let me ask you Why theatre TV screen is a director's medium Theatre is an actor's medium Say less Big up man like Daniel Bailey That's my fiat guy That's my guy You know what Funnily enough Yeah When I was in that 2020 period The first person I did an audition with Was Daniel Bailey Yeah And the glow that you're talking about That you saw Daniel Bailey saw the other side The best in the business I hope you're listening to this I hope he's listening to this I've got so much time for Daniel I don't have a lot of time for Daniel Me and Daniel are beefing right now They're beefing about Liverpool And Arsenal We're beefing I've been Me and Daniel were supposed to be getting on that stage together for a minute so I'm beefing you Daniel when you see this big up Daniel I've got a lot of time for Daniel man but yeah he saw a very very he saw one of those winners we were over Zoom and I remember him asking me earnestly are you okay bro and I remember you know just wearing the mask like yeah but he saw right through so big him up but yeah my answer is theatre alright going theatre we're going Arsenal now um Declan Rice or Saka?

1:11:58Mo Gilligan: One you've got to sell, one you've got to keep. Sorry. I'm just making these all worse, God. No, never. I'd rather not be an Arsenal fan. Let the Arsenal fans have both of them. I'd rather stop being an Arsenal fan. I know deep down there's one you would sell it. If you had to. If you had to like, you just had to, you're like. Dix. Declan Rice is my favourite Arsenal player But Saka was there when no one was Yeah he was That's when he said Arsenal fans you need more My bro What that man done What he has done What he is doing Yeah He deserves a statue When it's his time To either walk away from the game completely Or when he leaves Arsenal If he wants to leave Arsenal That boy Alright And last one Drama school Or learn on the job Learn on the job Every single time Every time Yeah yeah yeah I hear you on that It's mad Because I never went To go to drama school When I used to hear Of all the fuckery That was going on I was like Right man Thank god I didn't Go to this place Nah You know what Let's not knock Drama schools Drama schools No let's fucking knock it Fuck it Nah I'm playing I'm playing You can't knock Drama schools I think drama schools You know what it is It's just like anything Yeah You have to adapt with the times, rude boy You can't stay in the same place And expect different results And that's why drama schools are losing their prestige Unless it's the top two or top three That are still living off of It's like legacy They're living off of their legacy You guys Bruv You're not the top two teams, bro Top three teams You've got to figure it out You've got to adapt Because people like myself Or You know I'm not rolling out of drama schools every day and a lot of that is just divine timing do you know what I mean so learning on the job that's what I'd say Eric man it's been a pleasure to have you on the pod my friend thank you so much man I feel like we delved into so much there but honestly it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the pod man it will not be the last time whether we see each other in Budapest or even the NTAs yeah but it's been a pleasure man and I can't wait to see what comes next and this my friend has been your beginning middle and end thank you so much Eric Schengel thank you very much brother appreciate it hey what's up people my name is Mo Gilligan I just want to thank you so much for listening and watching my podcast now a lot goes into making this podcast as you can imagine I might be the person that's in front of the screen but it's really about the people that are behind the cameras and what I'd really appreciate what you could do for them is one give this a like that'll be great hype it up that'll be amazing but most importantly if you could subscribe if you could just hit that little bit just there and subscribe um the reason why that helps is it helps us build a community what people like what they want to see more of and most importantly it gets these podcasts straight to you so you don't even have to look for them anymore and how cool is that now listen if you do want to watch any other episodes you can check out this episode down here and this episode just down here i need to be mo Gilligan.

1:15:12Mo Gilligan: Take care. Peace.