Comedian Scott Bennett

0:00Mo Gilligan: Hey, what's happening people? My name is Mo Gilligan and this is the Beginning, Middle and End podcast. Now this is where I'm going to be asking some of my favourite people about how they started, where they are now and the legacy they want to leave. Today we are joined by one of the nation's favourite comics, known for his northern charm and observational wit. After leaving a career as a product designer, this comic quickly became a favourite on the UK circuit. Soon appearing on shows like Live at the Apollo, he recorded his first special stuff with Radio 4. And during lockdown, he made waves with his innovative stand up from the shed shows.

0:43Mo Gilligan: Recently finished touring his own show, which is called Blood Sugar Baby, which has helped raise awareness about his daughter's rare genetic condition. It's the very funny, very lovable Scott Bennett. Did you travel down today? Yeah, I'm doing an awards after tonight. Oh, nice. So I'm doing the marketing awards or something underneath the Globe Theatre, Shakespeare Globe Theatre. There's a venue under there. There's a little venue there. So we're hosting, I'm hosting that tonight. Decent. Come on, corporate gigs. Suit in a bag, mate. When I set off, when my missus, when Gemma sees me set off and I've got the suit in a bag, she's like, Waitrose, straight to Waitrose.

1:27spending it before it's even gone in. I'm like, suit on, is it? All right. We all right then.

1:34Mo Gilligan: Well, thank you for joining me on the beginning, middle and end podcast. I really appreciate you coming down. Do you know what I mean? Even though I know you've got a show and stuff, but no, I appreciate you coming down. Anytime. Do you know what I mean? It's amazing to be asked. Thank you. No, we've never touched base like this as well. So I am a fan of just comedy, but just having the comedy one-to-one chats I think those little relatabilities in our world because we had Jason Manford on and Jason said he was like everyone outside our world thinks what we do is like so cool and so great and it's not that we don't but we're like yeah that's just my job like today I do a podcast and then I'm going to go and host you know the marketing awards and we're like that's normal but we know that also well I know especially doing one of those corporates there's going to be someone who's going to go up on stage to give out an award and they're going to try a joke.

2:27Mo Gilligan: And then, you know, I don't know if you had this at corporates and they go, oh, it's quite hard doing this stuff, isn't it? And you're like, yeah. Then we come back on, you're like, anyway, let's move on. And then you're cracking some jokes and then you start to realise, you're like, bro, this is, this really is like, it's that power that you realise, I think sometimes we have to, the juxtaposition to do a podcast, award show. Like I know a bunch of other comics that will be like, yeah, I'm going to do some late night shows is it 12 o 'clock? And I'm like, 12 o 'clock? But people will always laugh no matter what time of day or what's going on, you know?

3:01Yeah, and I think sometimes we do take it for granted, but it's like doing, it must be like something you do so regularly becomes so normalised. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even though it's not normalised.

3:11Mo Gilligan: I always tell people where I'm going and they're blown away by the mileage. Like, I live in Nottingham and they go, where are you next week? I go, Northampton. They go, oh, are you staying over? I'm like, it's an hour and 40. anything up to four hours comedians will drive people just don't flinch but then you tell some other people they go oh can't get their head around it you know yeah I always find it whenever I do shows outside of like the UK like if I've done especially when I've done some in Europe because I've never really done any shows in Europe before so once I've done shows in Europe and people are like oh god what was it like there did they understand it I'm like yeah they probably speak better English than we do yeah yeah like they get everything they know everything so Well, also as well is relationships are relationships.

3:56The world is the world. People's viewpoints. We're all unified by similar frustrations and similar desires and aspirations, which is kind of wonderful in a way, isn't it? Yeah, man.

4:10Mo Gilligan: So you're from Yorkshire. That's where you're born and raised, right? Yeah, Pontefracts, which not many people know. Okay. It's just famous for Haribo. Really? It's a Haribo factory. Is it? I didn't know that, you know. That puts it on the map, doesn't it? Yeah. Do you see how my eyes are now? Yeah, really? Diabetes. The home of diabetes. That's where those eggs are coming from. Those little fried eggs. We've fired up. I could tell you were really impressed by that, were you? I was like, oh, wow. Stratford-upon-Avon and Shakespeare, wasn't it? The eggs. No, you can't be. Really? Is there a tour?

4:44There's people queuing. You know, like they do the Harry Potter at King's Cross. People stood outside next to a big egg.

4:50Mo Gilligan: People didn't use the queue up for that. You know that? No. Yeah, so there used to be a time where you could just walk past it and just take a picture. And it wasn't a thing. I don't know what happened in the last... Do you know what? I think what happened is they revamped the station. And I think once they revamped it, I think they had like a little Harry Potter store there as well now. And I think there's also a train. I don't know if this is right, but I feel like there's a train that takes you to the studios. So a lot of tourists go there on the way there. But I remember there used to be a time where you could just walk past.

5:21Mo Gilligan: because they used to have the trolley inside the wall. It was a thing. I remember I'd be like, oh, I've never really watched the Harry Potter film. So I've never been like, oh, I've seen the first one. But I was like, oh yeah, there's a trolley in the wall. But when you live here, you're like, I'm running late. I'm on my last warning at work. I don't care for this. But now it's become a thing where people, there's queues there and stuff. So you spoil for stuff like that down here, aren't you? It's so much culture and stuff. Yeah, yeah. You take it for granted, man. It passively passes over you, doesn't it, if you're so busy and stuff, you know?

5:53Mo Gilligan: Yeah, like I was in Central yesterday. I drove past and there was all these people queuing up to take a picture next to a telephone box. And I was like, why is there a queue? You can get another telephone box around the corner. But I didn't realise that that telephone box, you can, it directly, you can see Big Ben. Oh. I didn't know that. But when I seen it, I was like, oh, okay, I get it. but I think when you live in a place you can take it for granted until it's me in New York and I'm taking the picture you're the one walking around you know if you go to Paris I think there's that place called the Louvre with the triangle and everyone does that it looks like it's my finger on it if another person points to that Louvre it's really small it tends to be a giant doing the trickest perspective that's me that is always me man I'm holding it in my palm slip into the tourist vibe yeah man but your so your your father had a proper like trade not trade job but he was your father was a fireman right yeah and your mum was a hairdresser yeah so but I mean my dad worked two jobs as well oh wow because most firemen do I didn't know that yeah so I I don't know when he slept it was that weird thing like I always he was a decorator as well yeah so I always imagine he brought someone out of a fire and then going back down the ladder he was like do you want a quote for putting it right a little business card in his pocket just grab that mail come back next week get the wallpaper up for you but yeah he worked two jobs and my mum was a mobile hairdresser so like I just remember him just constantly grafting yeah they're hard graft jobs man yeah they really are yeah and it is yeah it was sort of like the classic working class jobs really yeah yeah how did that kind of shape your your upbringing as a kid because like you grew up on shows like Red Dwarf which you quote as one of your favourite shows like The Young Ones and stuff like that you know watching tapes of like Spike Milligan so having your parents working so much did that leave a lot of time for you to be at home and really take in all those things you loved about comedy yeah I suppose I suppose the weird thing for me was is like when you see your parents working like they they sort of like my mum and dad got got they never I never woke up thinking I didn't have anything but I know how hard it was for them to get it.

8:17You know, that sort of like real drive

8:18Mo Gilligan: and real sort of work ethic and I think that stuck with me a little bit. But my dad had a bit of humour because of the jobs, like gallows humour, isn't it? You know, the firemen, it's the going to die. It's a real camaraderie. So they sort of used humour to cope. So I think comedy's always been there and I think it's always been part of the family, really. It's definitely a Northern thing, comedy. Yeah. Not to say that, but I feel like when I go up north, there is a warmth and a friendliness. And I just feel like everyone's funnier up north than we are down here, down south. Yeah, I used to think, I think it's that sort of friendliness, isn't it?

8:56And that sort of, the guard's down a little bit. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? I feel like sometimes I get, when I go back to see my mum and dad and stuff and see all their friends and stuff, you realise how much they're just open. they feel like the body language is open and everything you know which which tends to which tends to make conversation easier and humor easier but but like my my dad's um whole life was like fire station and like i used to remember as a kid because he was working shifts yeah it just sort of just like hearing an engine go and then he'd be off to work again and then the house would smell of smoke sometimes when he'd come back in and stuff yeah i always just remember sniffing his jacket and that because he i can't even imagine him being a fireman i can't even imagine him doing

9:41Mo Gilligan: that job so weird and it's it's a job that's also like dangerous as well yeah i mean it's one of those jobs to know like yeah like he you know he could not come home the next day yeah i mean and you don't you don't think of that when you're a kid you sort of you don't think i mean the station he was in was small so he sort of said to me he says a lot of the time they were playing snooker to sleep in 14 hours and stuff. But then towards the end of his career, he did go to this city in Leeds and he did a really intense, high adrenaline. There was loads of car fires. They were getting bricked. And I said, that must have been terrifying.

10:20He was like, it's amazing. It was like his Top Gun moment. Do you know what I mean? He was called up at the last minute. So he sort of loved it, really. He loved the adrenaline of it. And I wonder if that's come through the genes a little bit, that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean? Even though he's not performing, there's a little bit of an adrenaline rush there, isn't there? When you're sort of driving down the road and smashing car wing mirrors off in a fire engine. You're like, I'm not allowed to do this.

10:46Mo Gilligan: Yeah. Well, it's interesting how, like, I feel like your father's job to your job is quite similar in the sense of, you know, you do this thing that people are amazed at and you change lives. Do you know what I mean? So it's quite similar. I don't know if my dad would say it that way. Do you know what I mean? I risked my life you did 10 minutes you know what I mean but then I like I see where your mum comes into it through the hustle of being a a hairdresser as well yeah that's a creative you know it's a creative thing to go like cool your hair looks like this and yeah it's gonna be like this afterwards it's the same kind of format yeah comedy I mean my mum my mum's a really interesting one because she when she was hairdressing it was like really old people she'd specialise in not special but it ended up being that way yeah so she'd do these little like warden aided flats and it was just the same old people and she'd only, she'd chat for hours with them, then she'd go and get their milk and go, it was like social work with an haircut thrown in do you know what I mean, and I think a lot of that chat and that I almost can see her as a sitcom character it's a bit Victoria Wood where she's sort of chatting, you know what I mean and I was like, you could do this far quicker if you weren't like, you know, nipping to the shops for them every 15 minutes but they saw her as a bit of a lifeline I think I think they do definitely like barbers it's the person you can open up to that is in charge of your hair and you just have to sit there you just have to sit there while someone just cuts your hair and you're like so how you been or you know it's the relief of like they catch you at a really honest moment as well because I don't think my barber knows what I do so there's like there's weird moments where I think it's leaking through a little bit now and I'm waiting for the day where he says I saw you or something and then the whole well the whole world collapses then I've got to find a new place to have my hair cut because it's that anonymity that I quite liked I like being on when I have my hair cut I'm sort of like Clark Kent yeah undercover you know and that there's that sort of rhythmic thing of I think it does bring out the honesty in you and you're quite relaxed and you start chatting yeah you know it's quite interesting and it disarms you a little bit yeah yeah and so so from a young age he was obviously inspired by comedy from the shows that you liked and stuff but then you studied product design at loveborough university yeah i mean before you started like comedy yeah so so comedy i'll be honest with you at school i was sort of i don't know what you were like at school i was quiet i wasn't i didn't really have formulate my personality i think back and i think i was quite nervous i was quite um not in any particular clique sort of just floating between people and i And I think what happened was, I think comedy formulated my personality.

13:30I think when I was like sort of 13, 14, and like Harry Enfield and Chums was on, and there was like Red Dwarf and Young Ones, and I think I used that, and I used lines from that, and I could recite stuff. Recall was really good. And I think sometimes you look and you go, oh, that can be me for a bit. and I think I sort of used it as a bit of a flex in a weird way. Yeah. You know.

13:58Mo Gilligan: When you was in school, like, so you said that as a teenager is where you found, like, your funny bones in some ways? Yeah, I mean, I had a lot of weird things happen as a teenager. So I was always, I always, like, played sport and stuff, but there's a really weird thing. I used to play football, but I'd never get a game. I was always a sub. So I'd watch other kids, like, follow the dreams, you know, And I'd be sort of stood there waiting. And then I got a trophy. I remember they gave me like a Clubman of the Year one, which was essentially just for being on the touchline, like resilience. I think there was a point where they were going, is he ever going to quit?

14:36Do you know what I mean? Can he not smell failure? How many times do we have to not give him a game? And I think there was something about that perseverance as a kid where you just go, just keep going and keep going. And so there was that element. And then when I was 15, I had a weird moment where I had a testicle removed. It was like a weird... So I had torsion testes. I don't know if you've heard of this.

14:59Mo Gilligan: No, what's this? So it's like when you're going through puberty, you can get a growth sput and it tangles internally. Oh, right. I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah. It's really quite common, apparently. And they couldn't save it. So when you have a bollock removed at 15, you think right I'm going to have to either laugh about this or not every time you open a tin of plum tomatoes you think you're right back there going oh god I'm reliving this so you sort of I think what happened was that was definitely a point 15 after that happened where comedy became more than just I like comedy I was like I love it I love the escapism of it and I love it was that feeling of like seeing the magic of how you can escape and you can get in and have found things and you and what I love about comedy is once you start you can it's like a little trail you can find influences and it's like music and it just spreads and then before you know it you you're discovering stuff all the time you know yeah yeah I think when you're a teenager because I'd say I discovered comedy at the same time as a teenager of watching deaf comedy jams and seeing him talk about things that i was like oh you guys talking about things that i didn't know this was really that funny yeah like serious but i remember going and telling everyone hey i'd seen this dvd and this comic says this and people laughing but almost like yeah no that's what that's what the comic said i it's not my joke but then almost like being like oh i like the power of yeah yeah yeah telling everyone a joke and then he's going mo do that bit of yeah yeah become On the jukebox.

16:44Mo Gilligan: Yeah, a little bit, yeah. And for me, it was almost like impressions or accents. Yeah. Accents was like my thing where we'd always get a lot of Australian supply teachers. So the minute I would get... An Australian supply teacher? Oh, my God. In London... What sort of feeder system is that? I don't know. But in London, like nine times out of 10, if your teacher wasn't in, it would always be an Australian supply teacher. That is bizarre. It was always the thing. Yeah, yeah. It's like, all right, guys. My name's... We're like, listen, we don't need to know your name. you're going to be here for a day.

17:13Mo Gilligan: Do you know what I mean? My God. I bet home and away neighbours and Australian supply teachers. And then the thing is because it was Australian we always knew that you know we'd say oh sir like where are you from? You said you're from New Zealand. And they would they would hate it so much. Yeah. And if someone's from New Zealand be like are you Australian? They're like no I'm actually from New Zealand actually. So yeah. But that was like the first like when I would imitate the teacher. Yeah. The class would love it. Yeah. I remember doing drama and the drama teacher would get me to do impressions of the other teachers.

17:47Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I'd stand and do them. And there was like those teachers and you could just, I remember just picking up on little things. Yeah. We had a physics teacher who was, I can't remember his name. It was just a boiling anger. It was like a character. It was almost like Jerry Sadowitz, but doing physics. So he'd start off quite calm. and then gradually you could see like his tie was tightening and he's doing this. I just think he had an anger issue. But then he was like those explosive moments where he'd lose it and he'd try and hold it back together. Now looking back, you just think, God, what a rollercoaster day.

18:24You can see him just going like this. So it was always impressions of him with his explosive anger but in the middle of experiments and stuff. And then we had another teacher. When you pick up on these things, I think what you're actually doing is you're zeroing in on the funny. You don't realise you're doing it, but you're going, oh, I've seen that. And then we had another teacher who was technology who'd just drift off. So he'd be in the middle of a sentence and then he'd just sort of look into the distance. Stop. And then everyone's like... It's almost like he was a robot powering down. Like almost AI.

18:57And then he'd start again. And these little quirks, I just thought, I've noticed all that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so when you relay it back, you sort of go, oh, yeah, there was something. but I didn't even know what that was I was just enjoying making people laugh at that point really but it never went out of I never thought oh I'm going to use it never was using it or anything it just I think it was just coming via just distilling down as the years went on and I just got more and more confident with it I think

19:29Mo Gilligan: How did design because you've done product design at Lovebrook how did that kind of play into your career path at a young age? Well, I think what happened was, obviously, I've seen my mum and dad grafting and stuff. And I just thought, well, I like comedy, but you don't make money out of that. You can't live off that. So it's that classic thing of they've never been on stage. No one in my family has done any performance. And I just thought, well, I can't even consider that as a real thing. So I thought, well, I like drawing. I like art. And then I was too scared to be an artist. So all the way through my life, I'm looking and going, the things I really enjoy, I was too frightened to commit to, like risk averse.

20:11And then I just thought, well, design is something you can make money of, but still be creative. And so that became the thing where I really enjoyed it. And, you know, my mum, when I started doing that, I look now at the parallels, which is like perfectionism, you're creating something. you're trying to look at the world around you and respond to things that are going on the threads are quite tight with comedy really but yeah my parents didn't they got proper jobs that's what they did and went to uni and did well at uni and so my mum and dad were like alright we're sorted now and you can see it in their eyes it's almost like parents when they get you to a certain point the handbrake goes off and they go we're done that one's done

21:00Mo Gilligan: like the chick can fly out the nest now do you know what I mean it's almost like they go like well our bit's over and then you turn around and go oh by the way I've quit my job I'm going to be a comedian they go oh you can't do it now we want our life back like my mum's got such a strange attitude I told her I was coming to do this podcast today and she was like London she was like oh I'm sorry like for her me going to London is such an effort for them it's like oh that's a lot of work for you and I'm like no it's fine it's a positive thing yeah so i think design for me was the option that felt safer that was still creative yeah yeah and you met your wife at university right yeah yeah jama so we met at uni in freshers week oh really yeah wow week one that's week one where the desperate people check out mo where the people who don't want to be one of university man what was we doing we even both look at each of us sometimes and go, what were we doing?

21:59The needy people checked out.

22:01Mo Gilligan: Like, please, I don't want to die alone. You know. Library University is a great university, though. Yes. I know it's known for like sport and stuff as well, right? Yeah. Yeah. And it's, yeah, I did design. My wife did languages. But it's the only uni, I think, where you can be coming back from a night out at three in the morning. You can see people training. Oh, okay. Like going for runs and sort of getting up and stretching and drinking eggs and stuff. It was like a real scholarship uni. And it's sort of like an American version of a British uni. It feels like you're at Yale or something. It's like a lot of it's on campus, so you're not thrown into a big...

22:41Again, that was another decision where I was off of Birmingham and Manchester and I was like, oh, I'm a bit... I felt like... That's ridiculous. I was like, it's a bit big and a bit unknown and a bit frightening. So Loughborough felt like a little contained... world you know so you start leaving home but you weren't really because i guess with birmingham

23:00Mo Gilligan: and manchester it feels like the city is bigger than the university you're like it's it's not the fact that you're studying you're like i'm moving to manchester yeah do you know i mean i'm moving to birmingham you're like yeah that's a whole juxtaposition of from the life you have to be like it's like if you know if i said to my friends i'm like oh i've got a show in in birmingham or manchester like oh oh that'll be good that'd be a big one yeah yeah yeah because if i said like lovebrow they'd be like oh nice that'd be nice little little playhouse there and that'd be lovely you know yeah yeah so yeah and you do notice that when the students aren't there it's just it's a couple of pensioners and the whole place is just dead yeah it's those student kind of towns right yeah lovebrow yeah it's like heavily like summertime when they're all gone you're like oh there's really nothing going on yeah and it was a weird one because Gemma got in she came in through clearing which I like to remind her of every now and then that's old school man clearing she was meant to go to Sheffield and she didn't get the results she ended up at Loughborough but she was living off campus so the weird thing was I was living in halls and then the room below me became vacant and Gemma knew someone who was in my hall from her course and then that's how it happened.

24:26So she just moved in below me and then we just met. So it's like a weird fate thing where you always look at that and just think I don't think we'd have ever met if she'd have worked hard at her A-levels.

24:39Mo Gilligan: Yeah, it's interesting that with your partner where you know you're like we would never have crossed paths. in any way, shape or form it just happened that in this part of our lives we crossed paths but any other time it just wouldn't have been possible that's what I find so weird is that everyone's got these trajectories and then sometimes something can happen and then it changes your entire life because then you've got children and you go like well that wouldn't have happened and then it's like you take it for granted a little bit but I don't think you realise when you're in that moment that this, how seismic it is until you look back on it.

25:16But yeah, meeting her at uni and Gemma's a massive comedy nerd. So that was something we connected with. Because I remember in, this was the era before we had tellies in the room and stuff. And in the common room or the social room, they used to put on like Shooting Stars and I'm Alan Partridge. So we used to go watch it in there. And that's how we sort of bonded really.

25:42Mo Gilligan: Yeah, and what year was this? 97 97 97 97 97

25:51Wow What was it like Were you all on penny fathings Did they have Did they have phones back then Tell me about the old times Scott What was it like

26:02Mo Gilligan: No but Did they have currency And digital clocks No because when you said 97 So I was I was in primary school then Oh come on Yeah yeah yeah That's ridiculous Yeah, so I was in primary school. But I started secondary school in 99. So, yeah. So I'm not like, you know that sometimes you're like, you could say 97, you'd be like, I was two then. I know, yeah. It's like, I remember it, but I wasn't there for it. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, well, you've got to be there for it, mate. You weren't there. It's like Vietnam, you weren't there, mate, in 97. Let me tell you about 97, mate. Okay, computer come out.

26:38Radiohead won the Mercury Music Prize. The landscape was different, mate, in 97.

26:42Mo Gilligan: yeah so I was in primary school and then secondary school I started in 99 oh man I look back now though and it was weird because things have moved on like they used to have no mobiles really so they had like a phone box and we used to ring our parents respective parents from the phone box and when you've got a spark between you you both go into the phone box together and you know you'd be ringing and like messing about and stuff yeah yeah yeah nothing explicit it obviously but you know that sort of like those moments of touch and connection where you go like oh god that's so weird because that that doesn't exist anymore and i was little thing where you write and jemma did a year in uh germany where she was teaching in germany and i was doing a year in industry somewhere working stoke-on-trent and we'd write letters it's like it feels like such a looking back now it feels like a costume drama or something but you go like yeah that was sort of the start of things really and um and she she loved comedy like i remember when we had a chat and and i i've been in relationships before and the comedy was something i'd kept like down like no it's just a thing but then when we started chatting and jemma could see like what i loved about it is she would watch partridge in the same way i'd watch partridge where not just the jokes it's the mannerisms and oh do you see the way he did that little pause and the way he, how wonderful it is and how, you know, it's this rich comedy character.

28:11And I was just like, you are passing the test.

28:15Mo Gilligan: It's like being in love with a nerd. Yeah. An attractive nerd that's on your same wavelength. And I just love the thing that you love and you're like, oh, what is this? Well, yeah, because what I found last time when I've been with someone is I think my natural comic was trying to entertain people or trying to entertain that person I was with and trying to be funny. and with Gemma I didn't feel like I had to do that as much and I was like oh something's quite different here and then I thought oh god she likes me for me I'm in trouble you know what I mean I'm going to have to be me now I don't want to be me start peeling off the layers of the onion man oh mate I tell you we were right in the middle of the onion while you were doing potato prints and marching about with glitter I was in the middle of the onion with my future wife mate so then you started you've done your first you first tried stand up in 2009 so quite late really yeah and that was around the time I think I might have started comedy around that time 2009 maybe 10ish yeah because I think I'm interested in is what made you kind of gravitate to comedy because you at this point in your life where you're at university and you're quite young and you're with someone who likes stand up too how did the natural progression of like I'm going to do this thing on the stage now?

29:39Yeah, well, at uni so when I was at uni we had like a review thing and Gemma was a really good singer so she'd do singing and dancing and stuff and I went up and did some pub gags sort of like, you know, bits of Harry Hill stuff bits of stuff that I'd seen and sort of, I was getting laughs and someone said to me you should do your own stuff and I never thought that was even a thing and I remember I parked that so that was about 99 I parked it and so when we fast forward to 2009 I was working in a proper so I was working in a design consultancy so I had a proper job good job Gemma was teaching we had an house we had a first kid on the way so Olivia was on the way so I was 31 one and I think what happened was I think I just decided if I don't do it this is just going to be something I'll just have that I'll let go of and I think it was that moment where you go you either do it or you don't and I remember sending the email to this it was a gong show in Nottingham you know you can get gonged off after two minutes and I sent an email and I thought you won't reply and he replied and I was like oh god and he said right here's the date and I was like right well I'm gonna have to do it and then you go and it's like above a pub and there's 11 people yeah and and it was great i had a really good one and then i'm just sort of thinking i think once you open that little pandora's box i think it's quite hard to close it again i think it's start you start to go it it became i'm i was i'm amazed how quickly it becomes a monster yeah in the background you know

31:24Mo Gilligan: yeah i think when you first get that taste as well of writing something doing it to people you don't know and getting a laugh it is this oh it's a feeling that yeah you get you know you still get it now but i think now it's probably different when you're like this is my job now and this is how i essentially put food on the table and pay the bills but also how i elevate my career but there's something so special about that first time when you write something and you're like i don't know if it was gonna like this yeah i've not tested it before yeah i just have no idea and it's it's like that moment where i don't know that the the only way i could really describe it it's almost like um it's almost like you know if you ever watch like cinderella yeah and she kind puts on the dress and it's like the fairy godmother goes bow and she's like fucking i'm a princess yeah and it's that thing of like the first time you tell a joke and it gets a laugh it's like there's the comedy gods go bow there you go you're a comic now yeah and you can't you don't get it again you you're like oh i want to i want to do that again but that for i remember specifically the first time i got that laugh of like wow i don't i didn't even know this would work yeah yeah you liked the stuff that i just said it's a very um special like you wish you could kind of put it in a jar yeah i don't even i don't know what that is i think it's like a cocktail of like validation or confidence or yeah yeah it's it's quite terrifying that it's filled so many gaps where you just go what it's almost like a moment where you go how's this it's almost like something's been put injected into you like you go like oh god this is what's been missing you feel like it's what's been missing I remember doing that gig and then they brought me back on for two basically you do your two minutes grace and it's five minutes the ones we did in Nottingham they brought you back on to do another two minutes and then they decided who the winner was and I came back on and said it's my first gig and I never thought I'd get this far and it would be a bit arrogant of me to have prepared two minutes if I made the final.

33:44However, I have. And they laughed at that

33:47Mo Gilligan: because I was, you know, I had it ready. And then I think... The honesty doesn't work sometimes. And that was the moment where I went, oh my God, I was honest. I was nervous, but I was honest. And I said something real in the moment. And I think like, ironically, I think I'd gone, oh God, I can even be me. There was so much I learned from that one little sentence. and then from then on I think it just I was surprised because it wasn't me this sort of like I can't describe what it changed I thought oh I love comedy not only do I love comedy I'm now doing my own and I'm getting laughed and when someone gives you like 20 quid you go like oh a little bit of petrol and no salary can compete with that even though it's just 20 pounds you never forget it you're like I just told some things that I thought was funny and someone just said hey yeah man you know you deserve that for what you've done and yeah I have to pay you because you've done a job and it is one of the best feelings because it gives you that kind of notoriety of like oh my god I said something I just said some words there are people who save lives yeah there are people who come up with equations to make things better and you're like i just said some stuff yeah and it got a reaction to the point where the person that is putting this on said hey man you you weren't that that's what we've made but you're and it's like what the fuck are you sure like i felt bad of taking money at first i was like are you sure thank you so much um that's that's more than a pound a minute you're working it out that's a pound a minute That hourly rate's ridiculous.

35:35I'm earning the same as an investment banker here. You start working back and go, we can't carry on like this. I'll be on 100 ,000 by the time I'm doing 20 minutes. I think what happens as well is it's sort of that thing of the money earned that way feels like, for me, it always feels like a real organic hunter-gatherer. I've written this. I've gone out. I've said that. Here's the money. And it's almost like a tangible chase now. whereas with my day job I enjoyed it I didn't hate it but I'd do what I did and then I'd finish at 5.30 and you got your salary and it's sort of very steady whereas this is moments of like boom moments of adrenaline where you go I got 50 pounds for saying that and then you go and so that's the weird thing is when you've got a day job and you go but that's the safer option that's the option you should be taking as an expectant father and you know my dad would have took that option but instead i've got this weird mistress that keeps hanging about do you know what i mean that keeps like hanging about and then i remember when my boss would be like oh we're going to we're going to do an exhibition at the nec and love you to be there and all i'm thinking is i'm going to hull for 40 pounds you know that in your head you're like oh that's going to be because i can't now do that and that's when you know you've got problems yeah yeah oh you've started something because it does it's not even about the money

37:00Mo Gilligan: yeah it's just like i want to get back on stage when i do that thing yeah again i want to replicate it and especially if you know you're like i'm doing a show and there's gonna be like maybe 100 200 people that's that feels like sometimes the win more than the money sometimes yeah like a packed audience you know yeah and and it's that it's that feeling of once you get a good gig when you're smashing it i don't think you can explain it to people it's that exchange of energy where you're one you're not even a performer anymore you're with them yeah you're in it with them and you're sort of and that feeling of going if you like that then this bit oh i can't wait to tell you this bit and that that's the buzz for me that never stops that that rhythm and and because i've never been able to play instruments or anything but that feels like you're almost writing symphony together or something yeah yeah there's like an orchestra vibe where you're and and to be able to control the energy in a room and see people doubled over and wiping their eyes you're like oh god i could be designing some and design as much as it's good you're like spinning around a cad model and sketching and stuff i you i loved it but you go but that look at that that's yeah and then then in my head i'm like my narrative's like you can't stop that because if you don't what's going to happen that's what might happen there yeah yeah that's the that's the issue really yeah so at this point in your life you start comedy you have a wife you've got you said you had a child on the way yeah olivia so olivia was born in 2010 2010 so then you had your one of your first shows in was that uh the one that was nominated for the amuse moose comedy award yeah that was 2015 2015 so at this point she's five years old yeah so you've done comedy for five years yeah um what kind of made you kind of want to put on a show because i know like with stand-up you can get into that mode of like i just want to gig and just do some gigs and do some gigs what was the the thing that in your head said okay i want to put on a show because i guess there is the side of knowing was it to get that kind of mainstream success or was it just if i put on a show and i put in edinburgh and it gets some notoriety i can i can make a living out of this and make some money with a wife and a child.

39:11Mo Gilligan: You know what I mean? I suppose it was that thing of everyone was talking about going to Edinburgh and I did like a compilation package show in 2013 where I had a great time and it just felt like the next natural step. But I'll be honest with you and I've said this to a lot of comics, I went way too early. I wasn't ready really. And I didn't understand Edinburgh. I didn't understand what it was and what I was getting into. And you only get one chance to do your debut. And I went up there, I didn't have an agent, I didn't have anyone advising me really. I went up there and thought, well, I'm funny, so this will be fine.

39:52Which doesn't work.

39:53Mo Gilligan: Which doesn't work in Edinburgh. Because in Edinburgh, everyone's funny. So it's almost like they need to stop you when you come into, you know when it says, welcome to Scotland? And they need to stop you at the side and go, are you doing the Fringe? Yeah, why? I'm funny. Everyone's funny, mate. Turn around. What else you got? What else you got? Well, I'm funny. Yeah, what else though? What's happening underneath? What about you? What about your, you know, you've got to give us a bit more heart. Well, I've got this great bit about a buffet. Yeah, that's fine. You go like, no, but what else? What else?

40:29Yeah, I've got that bit about never missing a bin day. Yeah, that's fine. But this is Edinburgh, mate. There's people talking about mental health and anxiety and how to channel your inner demons and your relationship with your parents. Is that in there? No, no. Middle Isle Liddle. There's a great bit. That's going to change the world. So I went up there on completely the wrong page. So there you go. That tickled me. Do you know what I mean? There's people up there going, When you walk to other shows and they go, so, yeah, the anxiety. And you go, oh, God. I ain't got nothing. I've got nothing, mate.

41:13It's almost like, I'm trying to think of the example. It's like I'd turned up. I know what it's like. It's like I'd turned up to a rap battle with a ukulele.

41:28That's basically what I'd done. and I'd wandered in there and I never quite, it never clicked. Because no one took me on one side and says, this isn't the frog on a Saturday. This is about, you know, heart on sleeve stuff. So for me, Edinburgh's always been, I'll tell you what it's been, it's always felt like an away fixture on a bubbly pitch.

41:52Mo Gilligan: Yes, that is a great way to explain it. That is perfect, actually. because it is when you the first time I went to Edinburgh I think that's why I find it so funny because me and K. Curd went to Edinburgh we've done a a double build show because you don't realise like how it really works so it's like you know we've done a double build show and I remember even when we was putting up flyers we was like on this rogue of like just stick it anywhere and you can't do that we were sticking it on other people no one's told you the rules no one's told us the rules of the game you're fly posting over the philharmonic and the Pleasance and then like we get these calls and people like sorry we've got this post doc can you guys take it down and we were like oh shit I just thought that's what it was it was just like put your posters anywhere then we're like putting it on the walls are five inches thick everyone's posting putting it on lamppost no one's coming like but then I remember going to see a show and I think we at this stage we're probably three days in of doing our show we've done half hour each we was at this show and it was so deep and I was sitting there and I was just like it was packed and I was like hold on but our show's like really funny though like we've got really good bits in it you've got really good bits and we're not selling it out what's that it's almost like you're in like the Truman Show you're like what's going on is there something that I don't know I remember sitting there going 11 months a year this is perfect for me what's different up here I must admit the shows were good but I think I feel the same that you forget it's an arts festival that's the bit I forgot and like you look now and there's a few people I remember who seem to have it nailed they seem to have someone who goes someone sat them down and they've gone right you do 45 first you're under the radar you get your 45 then you come back and you do your hour you do your debut in a big room we get PR behind it then you get your agent then you get nominated and I was like oh so there is a system I just went I'm going to be funny for an hour in a room that smells of urine and there's really bad sound bleed and I'm stood in front of a goth's washing line this big curtain and it'll all be fine and I'll get found and so I I went into it naive completely naive but also I've looked back on that you know because I've looked back on that whole thing and I actually think the issue is sometimes then what happens is comics are like I'm I like being mainstream or relatable and it always gets banded around as a negative but I love the fact that my tour shows now I'm a much you know I'm a better writer I'm a better performer but I'm still doing stuff that people can relate to and still can there's a catharsis and an exchange of experiences.

44:53I think what happens then is you sat in that show where you're going, oh my God, they're deep. Then you go away and write your version of that, you see.

45:00Mo Gilligan: That's what comics fall into where they go, well, I've got to come back. And then you're racking your brains at you going, what was the relationship like with my father, really? And then they'll say something, your dad will say something like, we had real poverty and your granddad was in prison. Tell me more. Tell me more. What was he in prison for? Start the dictaphone. And you're writing it down with mum, you know, and you have all those moments where you go, then you go up there and you go, and that is why we need to be a community because the disconnection in society, and you go, well, that wasn't me.

45:34Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then people go, well, that wasn't you. So the worst thing you can do is be inauthentic. Do you know what happens? I think that happens when you get someone in the audience who you immediately can relate to and they're expecting that kind of club relatable comic and they're just looking at you and you're like, you look at them and you're like, this isn't it because I know, like I feel like I know you and you, you know, you might meet them before or even afterwards and it's like, yeah, I really enjoyed it, man, I've seen some of your other stuff and you're like, I know you didn't fuck with that.

46:06Mo Gilligan: I know you didn't like that stuff and I think that's the moment where you're like, okay, cool, go back to the drawing board because that's who I'm feeding. That's my audience. Absolutely and you're not being you and when you're not being you, they can smell it. They're sitting there going, yeah, you did your bit about dishwashers, which was great. And then you did a bit about mortality, which was weird. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And they know you. And I think once you, I made the conscious decision then. It's a great bit though, the dishwasher mortality riff. But I made the decision then and I came away from that Edinburgh and I did get an Amuse Moose nomination and it was good and a few things came out of it just for the routines.

46:45Mo Gilligan: Yeah. And I came away and I thought the next time I go, I'm just going to write whatever I'm going to do I'm going to write honestly so the next show I did was about quitting my job to be a comedian and it was the first time I turned the ship I think and it wasn't perfect but for that point on I thought really all I need to do with stand-up is just make it because I think that first show there was an element of it being too observational and I think when you're in Edinburgh that's amplified that you're not in the bit. This is not any comic could do these bits. Whereas actually what I started to write is shows where it's from here.

47:26And they go, well, only you can do that bit.

47:29Mo Gilligan: Only you can do that bit. That is your viewpoint. And you're putting you and you're talking about you. And that unlocked the next however many years. And from now on, everything I write, it is a viewpoint, but it's from here. And I think once you put the heart and the emotion in, you go oh I'm glad I had that experience in a weird way that first show and I'm glad I could see that and now when I go there's just an honesty where I just I just feel like as long as I write from the heart I can't go wrong yeah yeah and I feel like your audience believe that they turn up for that and that's what they kind of want to hear because then that's how they relate because they're like oh only Scott could talk about that because he's lived that that's his experience and And I relate to that because that's a bit like my life.

48:15Mo Gilligan: But, oh, God, if Scott can say it, then it lets me relax. My life isn't as bad as I might think it is. And, you know, I'm hearing it from someone's side, from a different point of view as such. You speak about relatability and, like, you've supported some amazing comics on tour, you know, who are extremely relatable, you know, like Rob Brydon, Jason Manford, John Bishop, Michael McIntyre, Mickey Flanagan. how has that helped you develop yourself as a stand up because all of those guys are equally relatable do you know what I mean they're just like people you feel like you can have a pint with in some ways do you know what I mean yeah and watching it and the opportunity to just watch it as well I learnt so much the stagecraft and I learnt bits from everyone like I watched when I did Brydon's tour I watched like it was like a full variety show there was singing there was impressions and it was that thing of like he had such a connection and such, they were like, they didn't care.

49:16They were with him. It was like a, it was an audience with really. And I thought, oh God. So I learned really about bringing an audience in and unifying an audience and he would identify characters. So like, I think we all do that a little bit. Like the certain people you can use as a foil to bounce routines off. so it feels in the moment and improvised. So I learnt those sort of stagecraft techniques. But I also, I still learnt that I want to write stuff that's really no fat on it. Do you know what I mean? So that's when I was watching Flanagan and Manford and people like that, where you go like, oh, they're just getting to the joke.

50:00I think Thing is brilliant. McIntyre is probably one of the best, where you go like, it's just literally, it's so lean. And it's just funny, funny, funny. And I feel like that's always the comic I want to be. I think doing gigs on the rougher, when you start off and you're doing the North West and Working Man's Clubs sometimes, these rougher gigs, you've got to be funny straight away. They're not interested. You've got no time. You've got no time. They're judging you. Bang. And that's sort of been, I still think that even though I was out of my depth at Edinburgh, the actual thing of be funny, be funny first is a really important thing.

50:36Mo Gilligan: for a comic. It keeps you on your toes, I think, as well. I think sometimes when you can do your own gigs and you know that you're like, I've got an hour, we'll get to it. In the first 10 minutes, it might be a bit of crowd work and then I'm going to get to the bits where sometimes, you know, I've done shows up north and they're like, yeah, like in Newcastle, they're like, we kind of want the jokes, mate. We've been waiting. All right, come on now. And you're like, oh, okay, you guys want it. And that's an interesting place to be, I think, as a comic because I think for myself, I used to, I used to always pander to that as well.

51:08Mo Gilligan: Be like, let's just get on with the jokes right now. But I think it's also sometimes taking the power back and you're like, we're going to get there, but if I get there too quick, I can't let you lot peak in the next 40 minutes when I know I've got 20 minutes after that where I know you're going to be tired. So you're managing the energy? Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're basically giving them a three-course meal. Yeah. You're not giving them junk food straight away. Do you know what I used to do? I used to go in, because I think what you learn on the black comedy circuit is every joke has to be a hit.

51:46Mo Gilligan: So when you walk out, first three minutes, big joke. It might be something that happened. Hey, what's up? I see you with your girlfriend. Blah, blah, blah. Why are you not laughing? You're not laughing? Big. Everyone's laughed at the big one. The next one has to be big, big, big. There isn't any breathing room of like, okay, yeah, but. you know, it's nice to be here. And I love doing this because everyone's like, no, no, we need another hit. So it's almost like, you know, like when a singer comes and does like, I don't know, like a performance and they're like, they're doing all the ones that you love.

52:20Mo Gilligan: And they're like, yeah, we're going to bring down a little bit now. Let's bring the lights down. You're like, fuck this, bro. We came to see the big stuff. Yeah, it's when they say, this is off our new album. No, it's not. We're not here for that. Yeah, yeah. And I think I learned that from the black comedy circuit. So by the time I started doing mainstream, all my stuff was like, I've got to be big, big, big. And then it was almost like for the out, it had to be grand finale. Yes. Finish him. It was like, I've got to have, I had to write the big joke because in the black comedy circuit, seeing all my peers have like, for example, like Slim, they'd always have their big finish a joke and they would leave on the highest laugh.

53:01Mo Gilligan: And it was the best, it's the coolest thing to witness. Drop the mic. It's that moment and everyone's still laughing. It's like, that's my time. People stand up, they cheer. So you learn that. But then knowing that now I have to say, okay, cool. If I start off in the first 40 minutes and go, I'm doing big joke, big joke, big joke, big joke. And then I know you're going to peak because I know you're tired. I've come on at nine o 'clock and I've still got, yes, we were 40 minutes in, but I might do another 25, 30. so I know that last 10 minutes you are going to be so tired yeah fidgety yeah people looking at the thing bladders and also I don't know if you do this where you know when you see someone get up at a park where you're like why are you walking to the toilet now because I know what's going to happen is someone else is going to go he's going to the toilet yeah once they've broken the seal yes and the toilet beacon's gone up I have had that I've never had I did Barnard Castle on tour and it was like whack-a-mole once one person's seal had gone and I said to them I know what I'm doing for merch commodes I'm going to get everyone sat there just be able to go where you sat if you want that's the route if you're going to go we're going when no one's leaving I can play over the sound of it it'll be like doing a gig in front of beautiful fountains or something it'll be like proper ASMR but I think that thing of the pacing is interesting because I think now I've learnt to mix up the texture a little bit.

54:33So I am punchy. I mean, we go with big, big laughs all the time. But also there's moments that are a little bit more reflective and there's moments where there's a little bit more honesty. And then basically I wrote two different shows in one year. So this year I'm touring two different shows. So I'm touring the one which is stand-up called Stuff, which is all bits to stand up about, you know, a loose theme. And then I did this other one, which was about my daughter, because my eldest had a rare genetic condition. She's fine and she's cured. But we had this mad adventure where we flew around, you know, flew to Europe to get her cured.

55:12Mo Gilligan: Oh, wow. What was the genetic condition? This was the opposite of diabetes. Really? Yeah, so it's CHI. Oh, wow. Congenital hyperinsulinism. So it's one in 50 ,000 babies. Really? So this happened 2010, just as I'd started stand-up. So this was like a bomb going off. And you know when you talk about Edinburgh? Yeah. What's really weird is I had the show. That was the show. But I didn't dare. I wasn't vulnerable enough to go. Because every time I thought about it, it was still raw. And I'm a firm believer that if you're in it, it's not funny. Yeah. So you see comics sometimes talk about things they're going through.

55:51and the audience just wants to hug them. They don't want to laugh. So I was in that and that took a year till 2011 to get resolved. And I buried that because it was so traumatic and we were living in hospital

56:04Mo Gilligan: and it was a really stressful time. She got cured in the end, but it was a real rollercoaster. And then it was only like, it was only sort of, when was it? Last year I started to write it because it was 15 years on. lives a teenager and then I looked and I was like there's so many funny moments about living in a hospital and how you cope and how we had all these weird side effects and met these celebrities and then I just thought I've put that show and the other show on in the same year so I'm alternating How do you do that? Because they're so compartmentalised one story really and the other one stand up and also I want to retire early but having them both in the same year has been great because people have gone, oh God, I saw you do, you know what, we've talked about the high-paced stand-up and then I'm coming out and I'm sat on a chair and I'm telling this story that's really funny but as an emotional pull.

57:03And I just wanted to wrong foot a few people.

57:05Mo Gilligan: That's incredible, man. Yeah, I think that's come from 2015 from reading those reviews where it's like, it feels like there's no heart and then I just, that sticks with you a bit. I'll go, I'll show your heart, baby. I'm going to sell the story of my own child that's hot and then i didn't but and i thought i'm gonna make sure people are wrong-footed yeah and so that's what i've done really is there a habit in when you're telling you know your personal story to then realize there's not the laugh where you want it to so you kind of might jump into like ah let's let's hit him with some gags because i can tell that the vibe's a bit low does that make sense and that's been a real thing i've had to suppress I don't know if you've ever encountered that when you're telling something that's raw and it takes you back there's a moment in your head where your body presses the safety button and it wants you to stop and those moments the difficulty I have with the show is because it's about a sick baby I blow it at the start I tell them she's going to be fine because I don't want tension, no one can laugh if they're wondering whether she made it or not she never made it anyway give us a follow online no one wants that in a room so I've got some merch do anyone want to buy some merch so I think what I found with it was sitting in the moment has taken a bit of practice but the actual comedy is really good at diffusing attention and people are able to laugh because there's the comedy there So it's almost like the whole argument for having the jokes is the catharsis of how you cope with something like that anyway.

58:52It's almost like the blueprint. So when your life's struggling, most people start making jokes. Yeah, yeah, of course. I remember my dad when they had a pileup when he was a fireman and the fire engine got ran into and loads of cars run into it. And his mate had his leg trapped in the fire engine inside the cab because someone had run into the back. And apparently someone opened the door and went, you can't park there, mate. That was the first thing they said. The guy was fine, but like a joke, just instantly, you can't park there, mate. Just like straight. And there's something in diffusing it.

59:30And I feel like I've learned that comedy's got way more power now than I probably realised when I'm doing something so personal.

59:37Mo Gilligan: Yeah. Oh, that's incredible, man. What was incredible was that 2022, you launched your stand-up shed as well, which was like a weekly live stream comedy show from your garden. Yeah. And yeah, you was getting thousands of views. You had press success and virality through that. How important was that for you as a stand-up? Because the one thing that we have as an art form is that whatever's kind of sometimes going on in the world we can just kind of be like well i know there'll be a comedy club that i can go to yeah and perform and lift up spirits essentially um but i think the pandemic was the time i felt like all us comics was at home and we're like so i gotta be home now i gotta i can't i can't go out at eight for a gig because i've you know sometimes we have it for ourselves where we're like i just want to do some stand-up for me tonight and just go out do do a club come home yeah whereas the pandemic had to make us i'm at home and yeah so how was that how was that beneficial for you well it was a weird one because i for the first time ever i just quit my job 2018 so that decision basically my boss had offered me a role as a director uh so i basically got the lottery ticket as far as i but the same week i was offered Rob Brydon tour support and I had to make the decision of which way I was going to go and so I chose comedy so I took and I'm quite risk averse so it had taken so much to get me to that point yeah and get get my head square with it that this is what you're going to do you're going to be fine it'll all be fine and we had a year where it was started to roll things were going really well and then bang 2020 COVID happened and it sent me into this weird thing of told you so you should have never it made me doubt everything i'd done yeah and so the the stuff streaming from the shed because jemma got me the shed to write in when i when i quit my job there was a shed it said scott's writing shed somewhere i could write and looking back i thought that was sweet now i realize she kenneled me i'm so far down the garden mo i can get next door's wi-fi that's how far away she basically locked me off and said we'll we'll stick him in the shed He can follow his dream, but I don't want to see it.

1:02:01Get him down the bottom. And so when that came about, I thought, I'm going to try and keep comedy going because I don't know what else to do. And I felt like what happened was when we started doing these streams, there was an audience who was desperate, just as desperate to connect as we were. And you sort of found those people and it became like a bit of a community. It was amazing, really, how quickly that became. and people were like, when it first started, dogs barking, people were making casseroles and all sorts, having arguments in the background. But you realise the power of it and comedy was able to alleviate some of the madness that was going on.

1:02:46But yeah, it wasn't even a plan. It was just an accident really and a way of me feeling like I had a purpose.

1:02:55Mo Gilligan: So as much as you've, you know, I feel like you fed an audience. How beneficial was it to feed yourself in the moment of wanting to write and perform? Because once that starts gathering momentum, I feel like that must be a bit of pressure in a sense of like, oh, wow, people tune in for this. I had to write a new 45 every week, which is now looking back going, I don't know if I could do a Debra next show. You're going to be around 45 every week for 90 weeks. I think what it was as well is I was using it as an exercise to keep myself sharp. And then we was doing a lot of these Zoom gigs. And now looking back, I remember one day where we had these, like you could, we're sent these, I was doing these Zoom gigs.

1:03:44It was like December and they were all over. I had like five links and I'd just be like, click on one link and I'm doing something in Barcelona, click on another link. And then you're in your shed. it was like became like a little portal and i go back in the house the kids are watching telly i'm like yeah just going to singapore for a bit just click and then you look back and you think that was a bizarre time yeah yeah yeah and and i remember off the back of the shed some company it was this like media company asked me to do like a little presentation about what it's like to pivot and do something to to survive in the pandemics there's people who'd done uh they'd done craft classes online or something and I was doing this chat but there was no audience so I just had me talking to me about me and then I just said good night it was the weird some of the times were weird yeah and but it did feel like I was doing something I think if I had just sat back and and you know wallowed or basked in the panic of what we were all dealing with you know all the madness and the rules I think it had sent me a little bit over the edge I think do you do you find it hard

1:04:52Mo Gilligan: to switch off from comedy in a sense because like like you were saying before your wife is like like you say is a comedy nerd you have you know you're shedding the back which is like your place to get away from it all in the house but still be at home essentially yeah how How hard do you find it to switch off from comedy? I really struggle with it. I thought about this a lot. I knew this question might be asked to see. But I tell you the problem I've got. The problem I've got is I feel like when I gave up my job, it's almost like I gambled so much that part of my brain is now going, you've got to make it work.

1:05:35Otherwise, that was a stupid decision. so I've almost got the fuel from the fear of failure and comedy comedy for me is something that I love it and it's an escapism and I'm enjoying it and I can tangibly see the progression in the career but equally it's something that I feel I can never get an handle on I can never complete I can never get just quite right and the perfectionism part of me I feel like it's definitely got older me in a weird way without this being like a, you know, it's an illness, you know. But there's definitely something that it's found and burrowed into me where I'm going like, I'm inseparable from it.

1:06:18Because I think as well, my personality has always been wrapped in with comedy and trying to make people laugh and trying to... I remember when I was doing my day job as a designer, we'd be in a canteen and I'd be trying to make people laugh. And that buzz, you know, you forget you're basically doing a gig, you know. and then you'd go out with, and even before comedy, I remember going out with our friends and being in a restaurant and I'd just, I'd get them laughing on the table and I'd be like, I'm smashing this. In ZZ's, I am killing this. And then you sort of, you go off to the toilet and you start making notes going, oh, that could be a great job.

1:06:55And you go, God, what's happening to me? Yeah, it takes over your whole life. Everything can't be gear. Not everything can be gear. And you go like, this is terrifying because something will happen to you. you know like I don't know some moment will happen and you'll go that's awful that's traumatic but I'm sure there's a bit in that that's not a normal way to think so you feel like in a weird way it's always been great to do but also I think it's got hold of me in a weird way and that's yeah

1:07:27Mo Gilligan: I think that's the kind of the thing with comedy where it it does change your life and you know it changes other people's life but it's like that there's always there's always like just one more joke this was one there's always i can and if it's not one more joke and there's always one more show you want to do yeah it's not one more show there's one more tour there's one more tour there's one more special you want to record and i think i don't know if you struggle with this but i definitely have the struggle of like uh i think i want to quit this thing because i also want to look at other parts of my life that doesn't feel like this takes over my life you know there's times within even my own life where i'm like i really enjoy doing this thing it might be diy gardening um i was i was i was grilling this summer and i bought a barbecue and i was like i really want to learn how to smoke some some chicken like or smoke some beef and i started learning it and i was like did you buy a big barbecue as well yeah so i bought this master or something i got one what's it called again the The smoking bastard.

1:08:33Mo Gilligan: I've got the Cosmo smoker. The Cosmo smoker? Yeah. Is it big? It's quite big. It's got a little chimney on the top of it and stuff. I just love the idea you're down the garden. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've gone full prehistoric. It's like you've got a hunter-gatherer. You'll be spearing squirrels next. Listen, I started smoking these lamb chops. Oh, man. And, you know, I'd watch some things online. And I'm watching this one guy in America. And I watch his stuff. And he's like, yeah, man. So, you know, if you want to smoke, first you gotta do this you gotta do that and you know he's from like Louisiana or something so I was like cool I watched his channel started like learning how to properly smoke like so first I went with chicken and I thought right let me try lamb chops and he said how to marinate it you know 24 hours and I had loads of family rounds all my family come round and I made these lamb chops and I remember I remember eating it and I was like fucking hell that is crazy and then I said to myself I was like I need to I I I need to let everyone else taste this it can't just be me because I'm always going to be my own family I went inside I got all the family there and everyone's like hey you alright here cool I'm like hey do you want to taste some this lamb drop you know and then my sister was like no my sister's a very good cook and she was like she was like what what did you put in this lamb drop spiritual and I was sitting there just like Like, oh my God, I think this might be my, it might be my calling.

1:10:04Yeah.

1:10:04Mo Gilligan: And it's like with comedy where sometimes you tell a joke that's so good, you're like, I'm going to do it again. Another show. Try to make lamb chops again. They didn't hit the same way. They was a bit more dry. But you know what you've done? You've replaced comedy with lamb chops now. You're chasing the same hit with lamb. This is it. But the thing is, I knew that this second time it didn't hit. but I just knew part of me I was like nah I'm out really? yeah like don't get me wrong I like barbecuing still I like grilling and stuff but I knew the second time I was like yeah you can't you can replicate it but it wasn't enough I think if I would have done the second time so what's happening with the Cosmo smoker now?

1:10:46what are you doing with it?

1:10:47Mo Gilligan: now it's got a cover for it because it's winter time oh no it's been covered yeah yeah yeah it'll be back in spring spring 2025 we'll take back on the lam I like it do you know what that's like it's like a boxer coming out of retirement you'll come up you'll be like we're gonna take the lamb now come on you'll be training you'll be like you'll be like Rocky taking on Drago no 2025 I'll be back for the moment yeah do you know what's really weird is I did pottery recently oh yeah I've been thinking of doing this mate was it good it's fantastic so really a friend of mine has got his own pottery studio at the bottom of his garden in the shed yeah and so me and Gemma both did it and it was it was like a a Monday morning dropped the kids at school it was raining we walked down there we had no time pressure and we got in this little little thing he's got his own kiln and he basically he's got he showed us how to do it we had a potter's wheelie it's just the hum of the wheel just making bowls oh wow little patter of the rain yeah yeah yeah coffee little bit of radio on in the background occasionally he'd check on you yeah that's going quite you just need to the feel of the clay it's like ghosts you know what I mean yeah yeah yeah you know and just the feel the feedback from the clay and the gentle thing and then you're in there and the hum of the wheel you're controlling it with your foot it's mindfulness mate I felt like a monk in there or something and then at the end then we put out everything we'd made then a week later we came back we glazed and now we've got them at home and you go like that sounds relaxing oh it was and for the first time ever there was a calmness I thought everything stopped and it was that thing of and I've had that when I did some wild swimming at Boxing Day in the river.

1:12:31That was another moment where I was like, oh, I feel centered and I don't do enough of it. Yeah, same. Because the comedy voice is just and this industry is just all the time because that's the problem with this is I always think now I've never been on a treadmill as aggressive as stand-up. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Because there's always something.

1:12:53Mo Gilligan: Yeah, it's always go fast, go slow but even when you go fast go slow there's a hill climb and then there's a descent and then there's up again and then there's like oh yeah i'm i'm running i'm running my personal best right now yeah and then there's other times you're like i'm so tired yeah yeah this is this time drain i've got nothing in the tank and i think what it is is this idea that it's so off-piste this job opportunities don't look like opportunities yeah that's that's the problem i think when you're in a normal career so if I was doing design and I could go through that loop I do that amount of time I work on these projects I get that promotion I end up with that role as a director you know there's a path if you're in a company you work your way up with this one you can bump into someone in Nando's or wherever you can say hello they give you a card you're off to Hollywood yeah and that's shortening it but that's genuinely you know you go and do a gig somewhere someone sees you if you've not done that gig because you were tired and you pulled it there you wouldn't be in that audition and that's the problem with it I found it and much as I love it I feel like going well I can't take my piece off the board because that's the day something seismic happens but then you start to realise that never ends Scott Talking of seismic you played at the Royal Variety Performance what was that like?

1:14:16Incredible

1:14:17Mo Gilligan: Where did you play it? Royal Abahol oh wow yeah and then I did the Teenage Cancer Trust one a week later so when I went back I was like I know where I'm going I was like I think you'll find I know where the dressing room is is it number five is it yeah I think you'll find I was here last time with the king yes I don't even know where catering is you don't have to show me so I was like stage door 11 you know I don't need to sign in I think the lanyard still works as a proper wanker second time but it was weird because I'd done the Apollo in 21 on and I'll be honest a lot of people say because that moment I wasn't present mentally as much as I should have been I was so panicked and I was so like you know when you do something like that and you go like you're on telly you're on telly you're on telly you're on telly and that's all I could hear first ever telly ever and you're on telly you're on telly the second time when I did the right it was a completely different mental space there's a calmness that that you get where you're like I've had a chance to take this penalty before.

1:15:22Mo Gilligan: Yeah. And that's exactly the way I, yes, I scored, but I kind of would have wanted to kind of do a little, you know, Penenke this time. Do you know what I mean? I want to, I want to feel the moment of it. Do you know what I mean? Yes. And I, and the difference this time was so big. So, and even though the venue's bigger, the stakes are higher, the gigs harder. Yeah. Actually. I felt so calm and it was that feeling of knowing that I'd been on TV before and I kept saying to myself enjoy the gig but that came about through someone had seen me at a gig and then they'd loved what I'd done and I remember just walking out there and the thing I did this time which I didn't do at the Apollo I was so concerned about smashing the gig I think the audience can feel that a little bit yeah they can feel not the desperation but feel the cadence of it this time I walked out and I had to look round before I spoke I had a little walk round take it in man you know I think there was a point where the producer was like come on no but I had a little walk round then I started the set and in my head I was thinking this isn't live there's an edit so just enjoy the gig so in my head I was so much in a different space and I really enjoyed it and I remember every moment I had a little bit of crowd work with people and a little bit of a moment where you could play off the room a bit and then I was like oh my god and then all the bit the first laugh came the big bowl of five and a half hours of people whatever came and uh yeah and I came off and I just felt that level that's what I love about comedy sometimes I love when you do a tour you sweat in you come off and you've you've been up there for 80 minutes whatever and you feel like you've done the job there's no better feeling yeah than when you've when it's you've done the job and that's that's what I felt coming off there so in terms of as your end in some ways you described comedy like a treadmill in some ways and when do you think you'll be at a place on this treadmill where you know you have you know let's say you're on you're doing 10k and you know you can probably hit 15k because you're like i'm making i'm doing my personal best it's going well i'm running at speed i've never ran before and i really enjoy this instead of you know bringing the the the the speed down and say okay cool on this bit i'll just i'll just walk for a little bit when do you think you're going to press that emergency stop one day i mean it's an interesting because I know I've listened to other episodes of this and some people have an out.

1:18:13Mo Gilligan: It always feels like, you know, I've seen the film Heat with Pacino and De Niro. One of my favourites. It's a great film, isn't it? It's so brilliant. It's actually more applicable to life than people realise, I think. And there's more in it. I mean, I'm a proper nerd of Heat. I could go on about the colour palette. I really could. I could go on about the colour palette, the acoustic sound of the bullets. it's a passion for me, that film. But when he says, you know, he has that nightmare about drowning because he's not got enough time to get done what he needs to get done. And there's that point where you need, you know, you need an out.

1:18:50And I always think sometimes, I've thought comedy, this is how I feel about comedy. In my previous job about design, it was like a very steady thing. Whereas I think comedy, being in comedy is a bit like a cash grab. It's a bit like doing a bank job sometimes. I think you've got to get in, you've got to make as much money as you can, get as far as you can before you get caught and getting caught is your age your health or your stamina yeah that's how i feel about it and i feel sometimes that that grabbing of everything is is what's fueling me and i'm and i was thinking about this on the train down going is there an end point and i think it's about legacy so i've got various projects going on that i've got like a sitcom potentially happening I've got other written projects and I want to, if I can get to a point where I've left something that like all my heroes have not just done stand up, they've got their sitcoms or they've got books or they've got like a body of work, I feel like that could be a point.

1:19:54But also I'm also acutely aware that I'd like to leave a legacy for my children in terms of when I was 18, 19, there probably was a point where I thought I'd love to do performance or I'd love to do comedy. And not that my parents told me not to, but the atmosphere of get a job, play it safe, you need to play it safe, that pushes you onto a track of getting a job, discarding anything that might not be as linear. And I know Gemma wanted to be a performer. She ended up doing teaching because she couldn't see that world either because her mum and dad were working class. That world isn't accessible to us.

1:20:40No one goes, you can just go and do it. And if it don't work out, you can go and get a normal job. And I want my children, if they ever want to do something different, to not have a barrier where they go, I shouldn't do that. So that's kind of a weird thing. If I can leave that as well. but in terms of stopping it's a dangerous one because my parents still work they're 70 odd my dad still

1:21:07Mo Gilligan: he goes around in an electric van delivering brochures for my brother's business because he wants to feel like he can't sit and watch Lou swimming or you know sit in his conservatory with a box of wine he wants to be out in the hustle so I wonder if I could still do comedy but on a much calmer thing where I can do it when i want to the to you know is that even possible yeah is it possible to dip in and out oh will i be on stage going i'm not sharp as much i should have done i should have done that new material night it's hard because i think the minute you're out you have to be out and the minute you dip in and you get a taste of like oh that's when like if we go back to you know heat and you're like it's one more job one more job one more job and then I'm going you're right and you just kick it further down the line I don't know I'll tell you what I might do if I start my own pottery thing just start little potter's wheel I think it's yeah it's a very difficult thing to think of an end point and I think it's a great question because I think the danger with performances you don't know where that is you have people who have an amazing moment in the 70s but you think can I keep doing this I think the ghost of Christmas future is being in your car driving to a gig you don't want to do I think I don't know I think it's that if you can do it on your terms that's the goal really if I can do this job on my terms without feeling like I keep I'm chasing I'm doing it now as someone who's I've taken care of certain things certain financial commitments if that pressures off I feel like that would be a moment where I can relax a little bit yeah so that's your moment where the bank robber says listen I've left a bit behind in a bank that's normally the notes that are marked or the one that explodes and then you're like listen there's a suitcase in it for my kids but I am on the way to Mexico yeah yeah exactly this is where you need to meet me the coordinates yeah it's that thing you know when you have those like boxes in the things where you can have a key.

1:23:22What is those lock boxes?

1:23:23Mo Gilligan: Oh, the safety deposit boxes. Safety deposit box. I want one of them. I just want to say to the children, I want to say, Daddy's got one more gig. But if you go to the bank, 167, that's yours for you. 168, yours, Olivia. I'm taking care of you. Go and do with it what you will. That's a great way to sum it up, man. Yeah, yeah. But Scott, it's been a pleasure, man. It's been a pleasure just one, like, connecting with you. But your story is, like, massively... I connect with it in a way as a comic because there's certain moments where you say things and I'm like, yeah, that's my thought process for it, especially with the stuff in Edinburgh.

1:23:59Mo Gilligan: And there'll be a lot of comics who, I know that listen to this, that are in different places in their journey of some people that have just maybe come from Edinburgh. And they're like, oh, wow. My Edinburgh wasn't the show I wanted it to be, but I also know that there is another route as well. So that's massively inspiring. But thank you for coming on the pod, my friend. Thank you for having me. And this has been your beginning, middle and end. Thank you very much, Scott Bennett. Appreciate you, man. Hey, what's up? Thank you so much for listening to the podcast today. Now, a lot goes in to making each episode.

1:24:32Mo Gilligan: I know you hear my voice, but there's a team behind the scenes who helped make it. And if you did enjoy it, I'd really, really appreciate it if you could show the love to them by giving us five stars. And if you also have the time, please leave us a review. It's always appreciated and we love reading the comments. And of course, we want to keep making it better. Thank you for listening and have a great day. Peace.