Dynamo: I Met Dave Chappelle at Banksy’s House!

0:00Mo Gilligan: Hey, what's up, people? My name is Mo Gilligan and this is my podcast beginning, middle and end. Now, my guest this week has walked across the River Thames, levitated beside a double-decker bus and escaped from a sealed ship container. An OBE-awarded British illusionist and magician who has truly developed his own brand of magic. We talk about his incredible journey from learning card tricks to stopping bullies pushing him down, to managing a chronic illness to changing the magic game forever. He also reveals who the most famous person in his phone book is. Please welcome to the podcast, the amazing, the talented Dynamo.

0:43You know I'm a big fan, man. How are you and yourself, though? I'm pretty good, man. I feel like I'm the healthiest I've been in many years. I've got a good structure in my life right now. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's super important. but when you have you know when you've got like a chronic illness and you work in this industry um well in any industry you know when you when you've got a busy life and you're also managing an illness and you're also you know trying to um trying to push the envelope yeah in whatever it is that you do then i think it can be hard to maintain a routine that is you know that is not

1:23Mo Gilligan: too stressful is that quite a hard balancing act yeah because i guess that your work is like it's like a love it's a passion project oh yeah literally this is what i live for this is gonna sound really silly but anybody who's got crohn's disease or a similar condition to that um knows exactly what i mean like i when i've got commitments like even coming to do this show like i'm scared to eat anything too close to the actual record like because um if i eat something there's always possibility it could it could give me a really upset tummy like really quickly um which you know could make me too sick to actually continue or finish the yeah the interview i've had it so long you know it's kind of i understand my limits with it now but like you know when you're when you're younger and you're a teenager and you know you're like starting to go on dates and stuff like that um then you know like most times when you go on a date with somebody you sit down over food and get to know each other but when you're scared to eat because you know you don't because you know it can make you sick and also you know you're probably nervous going on a date you know i mean then yeah yeah then like it means that i had to kind of uh limit certain things in my life or push myself to do things which i knew could put me like in a difficult situation yeah i mean I went to the cinema once and ate popcorn.

2:47And then, you know, ironically, it was a great day. But at the end of the night, I woke up at like three in the morning. I had to be rushed to hospital. And I was in hospital for two weeks because I ate popcorn. Because of popcorn? Popcorn, yeah. Oh, wow.

2:59Mo Gilligan: Oh, my God. So, and some things, it's like, there's certain things which I've eaten for years and had no problems. But then, depending on how my Crohn's is doing, something can just kick it off. Every time I eat, it's a bit like Russian roulette, so to speak, you know what I mean? It's a bit like taking a gamble. It's like, if I get Nando's, yeah, I have to have it plain. I mean, it's sacrilege, isn't it? You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Plain Nando's. Do they question that as well? If you go into Nando's, like plain. Everybody always says what sauce you're getting, and I'm like, I have to just, you know, I have to keep it simple.

3:34I don't know the first time you ever met,

3:35Mo Gilligan: but you're one of those people whereby I've seen you on television. That's the first place I've ever seen was on television. I just felt like I knew you when I finally met you I feel like it's similar because I've seen you over the years obviously I've watched your specials I mean so when we probably did meet for the first time it didn't feel like we didn't know each other yeah yeah yeah we've seen each other at like Halloween parties yeah yeah yeah of course of course events and moving similar circles yeah yeah yeah I think that's I don't know I like that though you're from Bradford right yes that's your hometown yeah yeah i remember when we sat we sat down at the the event and you was telling me about um one of your favorite magicians and how you got into magic because you remember i started asking you questions like this yeah and it's hard because i don't want to feel like i'm interviewing you if i'm just like if we're just sitting there but i'm so intrigued when it comes to magic listen a lot of life's an interview in it yeah but like magic for me is like one of those things that i'm so intrigued i love the illusion side of it there's a part of me i I hate that I don't know how you do the trick, but it's the thing that makes me keep wanting to come back.

4:47Mo Gilligan: Do you know what I mean? Yes. How did you do that, man? I want to know how you've done it. And I think it's still one of the art forms that it, you know, it goes back hundreds of years. Do you know what I mean? And I remember asking, how did you get into magic? And you said that your, was it your nan? My grandpa was the first person who got me into magic. That's it, yes. Because he used to perform, like, he used to do tricks. He didn't really do the magic like I do. But, you know, he'd do stuff that, you know, would get him a free drink at the pub. He introduced me to it, actually by accident initially, because he showed me some techniques to scare away some people that were giving me trouble at school, right?

5:25But then my Nana was the one who really nurtured it. Yeah. Because, so an example of how she nurtured it, right? Where I grew up, right, in Bradford, there wasn't like really any magic like there wasn't any places to collect magic books or anything like that right um so we found this place in wakefield called merlin's right which is a magic store it's a magic and they do fancy dresser they do all sorts of stuff um and and it was like you know we're talking like you have to get three buses to get there so every fortnight me my nana and my gramps would get go on three buses all the way to wakefield it's mad because it feels like so far away when i was little but like now you know you can do it 15 minutes in the car from bathroom but you know going on the buses it was long um and it was like an adventure you know and we'd go to his place called merlin's and then um shout outs to mark and phil who run that place um they're still going which is amazing it's amazing you got to support pick and mortar stores these days you know i mean um and there was these tapes called the encyclopedia of card slights by this expert card guy called daryl um he's not alive anymore unfortunately and these tapes they weren't cheap they were like maybe like 25 pounds for a tape so i would spend you know like a month or two i'd spend a lot of time you know like washing cars in the area you know just doing things to save up enough money to buy one of these tapes yeah and i'd get it and i'd just devour it and then I ended up that it got to the end of the year and I think I managed to get three of these tapes then for Christmas um my family like my nana and my grandson you know everyone else family they chipped in and they got me the whole set there was eight in the set of this encyclopedic like card slides series I got all of them and it was amazing like you know I literally like that was it it was what I lived for it was the thing I did every night you know I didn't go out and play on the streets.

7:29It was a bit dangerous where we lived anyway. So I'd stay in watching these tapes with my grandpa and just trying to learn these cards. I didn't really have them. It's so difficult. Some of them I'm still trying to master now. And that's the good thing. It's like a lifelong pursuit, trying to achieve greatness in a field. Yeah, of course. And so I heard that Daryl was coming to Bradford, of all places. He was coming to Bradford to do a lecture. me this year right he was doing a lecture at the bradford magic circle right and i really wanted to go but my grandma looked into it and it turns out it was taking place in an over 18s venue and i wasn't able to go i was like you know maybe like 14 or something time maybe even younger than that to be honest and so i was gutted and anyway that weekend comes up you know i knew i was in town but like i couldn't go to a lecture um but it's sunday we're in the white lion pub were getting the Sunday roast, right?

8:27It was a ritual, you know, Yorkshire puddings, the lot.

8:30Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah. And I get a tap on the shoulder and I turn around and Daryl's there and my nana had secretly arranged for him to come and have Sunday roast with us whilst he was in the UK. And he's from like, you know, he's from America. Like, you know, it's not often that he would come to the UK and he spent an afternoon with us. He had food with us. He gave me a masterclass on card slides that I still remember to this day and I'm still trying to perfect these skills and become as good as maybe he was one day. And yeah, that kind of just shows the lengths that my Nana would go to help me realise my dreams and my passions.

9:10Yeah, man. So yeah, and everything I do, it's because they gave me the inspiration and the spark that I needed. What was it like in terms of growing up?

9:19Mo Gilligan: Because if you're spending your time watching VHS tapes at home, what's going on like outside of the home in terms of your environment when you need to step out and go to the shops or go to school and stuff like this the estate i grew up on at the time was quite notorious like there was i was a really skinny kind of not the sort of kid who could defend myself um so like for example if i went out you know if i ever had anything decent like you know i remember i once um remember when like when rollerblading was like the thing yeah yeah and I'm you know we'd saved up and I got some rollerblades they weren't the best ones but they were you know I loved them I remember going out rollerblading and then coming home without my rollerblades because they just get jacked off me I even I even once had a had a snake board do you remember snake boards?

10:10yeah yeah yeah they were really hard to ride they're like skateboards but you kind of wave with them yeah yeah yeah and I had one of those and then I remember that that I got pushed off of that and then and then when I tried to get it back the person threw it into the road and then a bus ran over it and like destroyed it and you know so it was you know in some ways i was small i was an easy target for people to kind of you know take advantage of um also you know i didn't really have like the the family around me all the time to to protect me so like my dad went to jail when i was four and he was pretty much gone like distant for most of my entire life.

10:53And then my mum had me, she had me when she was young. So, and she was still like a, you know, a teenager when she had me and she was still figuring out her own life. So like she needed, you know, my grandma gave her a lot of support.

11:09Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah. In raising me while she was out, you know, sorting her, she was going to be training to become a hairdresser and she's been a hairdresser ever since. And she's done amazingly well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the hard work paid off. I think almost maybe seeing the discipline that she had for her craft, you know, it definitely must have instilled in me a little bit to understand, you know, by practicing something a lot, you know, it's the way to mastery. Yeah. But, yeah, like, and also you've got to think it's Bradford. It's, you know, the 80s, you know, it's kind of, there's a lot of racial tension in the area.

11:46My father was Pakistani. my mum was English so you know it you got to think my mum at the time found pregnant with a Pakistani man in a time when Bradford was incredibly volatile and you know some of my family shunned my mum and she was brave enough you know in spite of it to bring me into the world a mixed race baby in a world that didn't really want me at the time yeah yeah of course um you know i think definitely a lot of my family were happy that my dad was in jail and wasn't around um because they didn't really want me to be in that life but at the same time you know i've never known what it's like to be properly raised by a father you know the closest i've got to that male role model um someone i could really look up to is my grandpa and I'd seen him maybe every second weekend so yeah but yeah it was it was lonely but I think I in order to stay safe I would lose myself in books and in once I found this world of magic I died

13:03Mo Gilligan: you was doing magic as like a teenager right? I'm really intrigued to know what that's like because you know sometimes I meet people in there uh you know they might play football at a young age and everyone has this kind of protection over them of like oh you know he's the person that's gonna make it as a footballer so we kind of look after and protect him or if someone's an actor they go stage school with other like-minded people what's it like being young as a teenager and doing magic and you know are you going out in the streets and doing it are you doing it at family gatherings are you going to the pubs or like how did your journey like start of you really taking it outside of your your house the first places i ever performed for public not for family for public was in the school playground okay but it wasn't to entertain the people who were my audience my audience were the people who were trying to stick me in the wheelie bin okay so like it was the first ever technique was a way for them not to be able to pick me up oh my grandpa saw he picked me up from school one day he saw what they were doing to me and on the way home he said i'm going to teach you some skills to stop that from happening to you in my head i'm thinking wicked mr miyagi i'm going to learn karate but it wasn't karate it was these techniques um that were old carny techniques you know the old like vulnerable performance techniques that I learned from my gramps to be able to like stop people pushing me around.

14:35So like when you used to go watch these performances in, you know, hundreds of years ago in the big tents, right? In the big circus tents, you would have like a hundred guys, muscle bound guys lining up, trying to push over the small guy and they couldn't move him because he's mastered these techniques. So I learned some of these which stopped people being able to push me around when i was a kid so initially the magic i was using was to protect myself yeah and it worked you know i got through my school years and then i left school and went to batley school of art and design uh at jewsby college okay and it was there that i actually started performing magic for entertainment purposes i on the first day they're going by the table you know introducing in your new form, your new class, right?

15:25And there's like, hey, I'm Gary. I'm into football. I'm Paul. In my spare time, I ride BMX. I was like, I'm Stephen. I do magic. Yeah. And everyone looked at me excitedly. They're like, wait, you do magic? What do you mean? Can you show us? That must have made you feel quite cool, no? Very cool. Because I was nervous to say it, to admit it at first. because my experience with it prior to that was not, it wasn't a cool thing. It was a thing that helped to isolate me from the people that were doing bad to me. I never realised it could be a thing that could bring people together. I remember performing magic on that day and suddenly it became everyday.

16:18Performing for people was this new thing and it gave an energy and this like adrenaline rush that i couldn't shake i could not like i i became addicted to that rush um and my confidence grew and you know i'd be on the way you know on the bus on the way home and people get on who don't even go to my college who'd heard stories about the magic i was doing and they're like can you do us some magic yeah and i was like um all right take the cards mix them up um think of one of them and i'd take the cards i'd form up the bus window and their card would be stuck on the window. I remember that feeling like they're so strong.

16:55I'd started to get asked to do performances at out of college events, but were organised by the college, student events. And they were paying me as well. It was actually how I was paying for my courses. It got to a point where I remember on that bus thinking, you know this feeling i want this feeling forever you know i want like and i ended up dropping out of college and just going going all in on the magic um that year my my my grandma who i was talking about earlier is my great grandma it's my mom's grandma okay so my mom's mom actually lives in america moved there when i was when i was quite young um due to my granddad's work right a different granddad so my great grandpa it's gonna get confusing sorry guys my great grandpa and great grandma are the ones who nurtured the magic in the way they're the ones who lived in in bradford with us right and then my uh you know my actual grandma my mom's mom uh they lived in america and for my 18th birthday they got me a plane ticket to go out and stay with them and they organized like a three-month visa so so i got to go out there and whilst i was in america right my nan who lives out there she's got 18 award-winning golden retriever dogs oh really yeah they actually breed she breeds the dogs like um you know my granddad he's got a different you know more regular job yeah um but and he they ended up out there because his company got bought up by an american company and then they moved him to the states to open up branches yeah yeah yeah um and so so he's got all these dogs and most of my time whilst i was in america i was helping her at the dog shows grooming the dogs right we had this one of my favorite my favorite dog right called tomba golden retriever it was a puppy when i first got there but it was massive right and sleep on the bed with me right when we're there but also we'd go in the rv and we travel across america yeah basically doing dog shows we'd go to new orleans we'd go to vegas we'd go all over and you're 18 yes i was 18 at this point yeah right and and like in the day times right i'd do the dog shows and i'd earn some pocket money off my grandma right and in the evenings we'd find local magic clubs or if we're in vegas we'd go to magic shows you know i mean and it was crazy because I got an education.

19:33You know, I got to meet people like David Copperfield, David Blaine. Like I got to meet all of these people when I was young. And I was asking them like, I was making notes, like making like advice on how they made this into a living. And then I came back from America after that three months. Like I came back from there and I had this master plan. I was like, all right, I want to do magic. I'm going to make this into a business. but my original plan was to go back to Vegas with it because that's the home of magic right you've got all the big performers there Penn and Teller you know like like and and I thought that's where I needed to be as well so I ended up doing my research and how you go about getting there and the way the easiest way is to get a gaming license okay so then I went and took an apprenticeship at gala casino in bradford um which was an 18 month apprenticeship um where i got paid for it but i also would learn the trade and by the end of it get a gaming license so i learned how to be a croupier yeah yeah um which was weird because when i was doing my apprenticeship nobody uh we some of the apprenticeship you're actually you're dealing with real people in the casino yeah right but nobody would play car to me so um so i can only deal roulette they don't let me deal roulette because the i had a little bit of reputation for my magic so they didn't they didn't want to yes because that's what i was going to ask you

21:00Mo Gilligan: so can you count cards yeah is it yeah so if you go to vegas and you play blackjack you can count if it's a single deck definitely eight deck blackjack which is a lot harder yeah if i practiced a lot you know if i practiced a lot then yeah but it's a lot it's hard work have you ever been banned from like a casino or they said like you can't play here or anything um there's in certain casinos certain parts of the world they have my picture and they won't you know they like i'm not allowed to to go to the tables and play really yeah yeah oh my gosh yeah so because they know i'm allowed to go and eat in the restaurant yeah right but i'm not allowed to to play yeah and that's because they know you're a magician and you can count cards yeah yeah they know the the techniques like I said I spent my I spent my primitive years learning the encyclopedia of card slides you know which most of the card slides back then were used were gambling techniques to cheat and stuff you know not that I ever I didn't learn it for that purpose can you count poker as well you can deal poker hands you know if I was dealing I could do a lot more damage really yeah so have you ever been invited to these things of like you know, there's this poker thing and we want you to play as like a, you know, celebrity poker player.

22:22Mo Gilligan: Or was it just like, oh, he's a magician, he can't. I've been asked by people, there was this guy back in Bradford, back in the day, who would frequent the casino. And he was like, no one has been like, you know, a really good player. Yeah. I remember being asked by his people if I would deal a game for them, but deal a game, controlling the outcome. Yeah. There's definitely been offers, you know, when people who understand the game and understand the skills that you have see that, you know, obviously it's going to spring to mind, you know, like, you know, maybe we could do something with this.

23:00Mo Gilligan: Yeah. Oh, that's crazy. So is there a game that you are allowed, like roulette, for example, I guess that's different because it's just... I mean, you play, you know, you play the numbers, like you play, you know, like, but like, you know, there's systems but there's so many variables in that so will they let you play roulette because I feel like that's just like the lottery almost you pick a number and if it lands it lands some places probably I mean you know some places Vegas is so big right I reckon there's some casinos I can walk into there and go up to a table and just have a quick game and then walk off and no one's going to you know no one's going to even notice but after a while like if you're talking like you said the MGM but yeah it's weird I have more trouble I have more trouble in the casinos in the UK really yeah i think because it's a different culture of casinos here oh yes yeah it's not like you know in in vegas right it's like literally like they're just open you can just anyone just walk in yeah open right whereas here it's like it's like it's like a members club you know you go yeah yeah you sign in you know you you you know i mean you have to go through the security you know to get in the place in the first place you know it's a it's a different setup yeah of course and i think you know if i walk in and i've got to go straight away and speak to the person on my desk and say hey coming in or you sign your name in steven fane oh is that steven are you dynamo you know i mean yeah yeah so like you know if they know that then they speak then you usually get someone come up to me and say um say oh we're very happy for you know to be here but if you could um not pick up the tables oh man it's weird like i i get it on their part but also it's a bit unfair because it's like that yeah and also i mean the thing is ultimately it's all a game of look there's skill involved but still it's a skill that is it's like I feel like you should be commended for that skill if you were able to beat the house you should be commended for it yeah yeah yeah oh that's it so what's it like when you went to America and you met Penn and Teller and David Blaine because I guess like you know to even meet them must be like almost something that's almost like oh my god this is like blowing my mind but as a as a magician yeah it must be even better you know i mean i mean my idols do you know i mean i'm meeting people who are examples to me of what you can achieve and the fact that it's possible yeah you know when i met them i was like i i was so kind of impassioned about wanting to do this for the rest of my life but i think that that took over so i wasn't nervous speaking to them yeah because i was like a sponge trying to soak up this knowledge i knew i knew that i was in a room full of wisdom full of greatness full of like people who've lived it they they've done what i want to do and i thought well this is an opportunity to learn from the best of the best and I just kind of soaked it up, you know.

25:56And yeah, it's amazing to like, you know, like I've met loads of people over the years, you know, like famous people to like, you know, but the craziest thing, you know, like people like say to me, oh, like, you know, like, you know, you've got like some cool people's numbers in your phone book. But I'm like, yeah, man, I've got like Penn and Tellers, you know what I mean?

26:14Mo Gilligan: They're the cool ones to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you know, like. Who would you say is your top five in your phone book? Top, oh man. Oh, it's just popping name dropping now. I wasn't even going No go for it man Like top five Where you're like Top five We're talking magicians Or talking just Just Just Yeah actually Non magicians Where you're like Top five Who you have in your phone book Right Non magicians One person Who was massively supportive of me Early on in my career And was on One of my first TV shows And on You know My most One of my most recent TV shows You know Is uh is it's the whole band is a co-player um so yeah like i remember i remember meeting chris first at coco in camden i managed to like get tickets right um and i was doing magic to this lady right um she's a lovely little old older lady right and she was like yeah i was i wasn't in like a vip or anything anything i was just in a normal area right and then she goes oh you've got to show my you've got to come show my son chris come show christopher some magic i'm like all right i'm thinking i'm going to get taken she's we're going for his back rooms i'm thinking we've got like i'm thinking who is this lady because we've got a lot we seem to be going in places i've never even been to in coco before right and then she's she's like chris chris have you seen chris i'm walking i'm like it dawns on me her son's chris martin and then we're in there walking and at the beginning um chris is like chris is kind of like appeasing his mum his mum's like um i've met this lovely young man steven he's going to show you something um and he's like all right all right mom all right i'll watch it and at the beginning you could yeah we've got fingers we've got all this on film yeah yeah in the beginning he was a bit like you know i feel like he was just you know being polite yeah okay but then when he saw the first piece of magic suddenly everything changed his whole demeanor changed he stopped the room they were all packing like guitars away they were all like packing stuff away because it was the end of the night right and he went and opened the door to another dressing room and he goes guys guys guys come in here and literally in pause like this is when he's married to gwyneth parter she comes in the room you know you had like guy you had well like yeah like literally like just the whole band and the team behind them yeah the manager was a guy called Dave at the time like there was like you know they just loads like just I'm backstage with Coldplay and their crew right and I said uh they said he goes right can you do some more magic I goes I goes can I can I film it all and they goes of course yeah and then literally I uh perform my little heart out and the next thing they says oh we're doing shows in Crystal Palace next week would you come and do backstage magic at the after parties each show I was like yeah and I did that and then they said yeah if you ever need us to do anything we love you and we don't support you and you know people say that you meet a lot of people and they say that but then my first TV show they came on it and then Magician Impossible they came on that and the thing is they only got bigger and bigger and bigger and then fast forward to you know like to 2023 for dynamo is dead show i was making and i'm in america filming that show and they said yeah come through to come through to um to san diego and film there yeah and it was crazy because we're backstage hanging out but then i got to go they do this like i got to be part of the huddle before they go on stage we get like you know like in a team talk let's do this you know what I mean and it was amazing like they were like yeah to like to kind of to get to the level they've got to but still kind of maintain the relationships that they do it's a testament to to them so so yeah so that's a long story a long way of saying but yeah I guess the co-player co-player is probably the you know they're up there um dave chappelle is it yes i ain't even got dave chappelle's number david chappelle's my guy man like i was out i was out in ohio yeah yeah we thought some cool stuff at his house um and yeah man he's uh he reason why he's super like means a lot to me is that so this is going to sound crazy but it's true and if you ever ask him if you ever see him he'll tell you he'll back it up true right I met Dave Chappelle at Banksy's right oh what what so hold on hold on you met hold on wait wait wait wait you you know Banksy yeah right Why don't you just go there?

31:27Mo Gilligan: Why don't you and you should have went straight there? Who's the top female? You know, Banksy. That is crazy. Yeah, yeah. So Banksy was doing this. So he bought the old pub in his old estate that he was living. Banksy, yeah? Yeah, and he regenerated it. And he brought me, Damien Junior Gongmali, and Dave Chappelle to Bristol, to this pub. Yeah. Right? Yeah, yeah. And we're all there, right? And I'm like, literally, he goes, oh, this room's, this is your room, right? This is where you can, you know, like your dressing room sort of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. right um dave chapelle's just next door um you know like and then um so then i'm literally just like that whole day like because the dressing room was tiny so outside it there was like a little like set up with like drinks and food and stuff so i'm just sat there chilling with with chapelle and and his son sulle for the most all day oh my god and we were doing magic and everything and just hanging out and then you know like and then we were on stage and stuff like that um because they did like it was all like it was like a mini carnival festival vibe right um and yeah so we became really good friends there right but then and this is what i'm saying like it's kind of crazy how the relationships maintain because like the people i'm saying they're people that i've remained long-term relationships with of course right so i've got some numbers in my phone book but like since they gave me the number I haven't called them because I don't know what to say to that person because I met them briefly and it's awkward you're just like so hey mate yeah right but then Dave came through to London and he was doing some shows that week and then he invited me down to the shows and I was there I was at the shows like you know we were hanging out with like Dale Asol was there I've known Dale Asol for years and Kano was there we went for dinner and stuff like that and then we're partying after and then dave flies home and i didn't think you know i i thought this is cool like but i never thought you know i've when he'd gone i was like i'm not really sure like do i text him do i keep in touch i mean give me a little bit like i kind of you know still it's like you know people of that level like what what do i have to say to someone like that you know what i mean i mean maybe that's an toss us into one thing but it's like you know it's kind of like these these people are like the toppiest level of their game they're the goats right yeah yeah no but you i think you are as well bro like you know to do what you've done and sustain it for such a long period of time that you're almost like a brand if that makes sense when it comes to magic i think what you do is more than just this is a card trick do you know what i mean yeah when it comes to television shows and that's what i hate i want to be great in in this i i'm i'm a student of it i'm never there's not a chance in my lifetime that i will ever get as good as i can ever be because the history of magic there's so much to study there's so much to kind of learn but like I will never visit magic books right I've got more magic books in my library that it's possible for me to read in my entire lifetime yeah right that's a lot but I try and read a little bit of everything you know I mean I try and because I study this stuff because you know I care like I love I love magic so much and I and I'm I think it's important that you know I create the right legacy for magic you know because i think it's very easy for like magic to be trivialized you know because i think it's just tricks of art whereas i think it's not i think magic is a it's a feeling that you can create in somebody you can create that feeling through comedy you know through performance right um and for me it's important to keep that going i think that's probably why i gravitate towards people like dave and coldplay and so that because they create a magic when they're performing.

35:53When you watch them, you're not just watching any other performer, right? There's something about them. They've got that thing. So when, so I got sick, right? I'm bringing it back to a, I'm doing a callback, you know? Bringing it back to the Dave story, right? And why he means so much to me. I got really sick, right, in 2018. it was highly publicized in the papers and stuff yeah i've had Crohn's disease most of my life but but i was out of action right and then it taken me you know right through to like i'd say 2020 2021 in fact 2021 really 2021 really to kind of get myself back to a good place you know yeah yeah and there was a period right where i wasn't performing i didn't perform for like eight months I didn't touch a pack of cats I was mentally Unwell and I was also Physically unwell And I kind of I was going through a period where I hated myself Because I was on so much medication When I looked in the mirror Or if anyone saw me I looked like a different person I was on 28 tablets a day And infusions at the hospital I was at the hospital Like two or three times a week right um it was a dark period in my life you know like part of me thought i was so highly medicated that if i kind of i didn't feel like i was myself so i looked at myself i didn't see myself and when i thought and i didn't feel like myself either yeah and part of me didn't want to be alive if i wasn't myself if i wasn't doing magic but i didn't know how to get it back yeah i get a call from dave and he's like yo i'm i'm coming to london this was like five or six years since i'd probably last seen him yeah right and i'm like oh sick he goes you gotta come through to my shows man you gotta hang out it's been a while i'm like all right cool so go down to the shows and i'm kind of sat like he obviously got me the best seats and something i'm just sat like right near the front and halfway through his performance he stops looks at me and he goes you guys like magic and he look and he looks down he goes because my my boy's in the car and he i want to get him up here to show you some stuff yeah yeah and in my head i'm like oh man like i was i was nervous for two reasons first off i've got to get on the stage with the gut yeah right like so i've got a i've got to represent for him right yeah but also i hadn't performed yeah in like eight months like i wasn't like i wasn't active i was you know like i was definitely rusty do you know what i mean and i did but and at that point as well like i didn't really know my place in life because i i knew i couldn't perform to the capacity that i had been performing but I knew I didn't want to do anything else other than that so I was I was lost as a person right and those eight minutes on stage performing it knocked me out of my funk in a good way you know like suddenly I realized what I needed to do with my life and I knew that I had to get back on back to performing right and that week he kept inviting me to he was doing like a lot of different shows right and he kept inviting me along to every single one and he kept like bringing me on stage or like getting me to perform so every night i found myself going home staying up till like early hours in the morning which i'll stay up late anyway i normally stay up till like four or five in the morning writing and working on stuff right um but i was writing new material because i knew that if he got me on stage i needed to be ready yeah yeah and he he got me out of my almost like i'd like the equivalent of i guess magic writer's block and he got me out of it and forced me back on stage for he forced me to do something i couldn't force myself to do and to do it for him you know it was such an honor and for me you know that's why i hold him in high regard because i feel like he gave me a new lease of life and reminded me of why i'm here and you know to give me a platform like that yeah some of his stature in in his industry you know in the entertainment world you know it's like you know and also i'm i'm going i'm going to each of these shows i'm getting to see a masterclass before i even go on stage i'm learning from from the gut you know yeah man um so like so yeah like he's up there um uh you wanted five didn't you i thought i'll go quicker on the other ones no we got who we got we got chris martin we got banksy dave chappelle oh yeah so so two more yeah two more i'm gonna go for a good one relevant right now but he's but he's just a g anyway in general um stephen graham oh wow yeah man he's he's a g like bad boy yeah he's amazing so nice as well he's such a cool guy man yeah yeah like years ago I was I was touring I was doing an arena tour yeah and I ended up doing shows in Liverpool normally the promoters you know they invite people through and that lot and then after I do like meet and greets after and I walk in the room and it's Stephen Graham and his family you know I mean and like first off like I wasn't initially expecting him I didn't know he was going to be there I know that they were bringing people that throughout the week they you know football has come through and so that you know um and like i'm a badford city fan so like you know uh we're not really we're not in the premier league so like you know so i don't really follow a lot of the premier league players yeah i know the obvious ones right yeah so so like a lot of these football players coming through from the port i didn't really know how half of them were right um but then i saw steven graham's face i was like why i know you man you're sick um and yeah like uh and then we we stayed in contact we became friends you know i mean and and he's a you know yeah he i love the fact that he used to watch my show or i've still watches my shows but they watch it as a family you know like and i think that was that's the one thing about magic that i really love is that you can appreciate if you're 60 years old you can appreciate if you're five years old you can appreciate if you're 15 years old do you know i mean it magic has no age barrier and it also has no language barrier yeah um and you know so like to to to have the whole family as fans is awesome and like you know like it's like you know like steven graham's been to my house and stuff do you know i mean it's kind of like it's crazy because like you you forget sometimes when you're around because it's so cool yeah yeah yeah how epic and iconic the stuff he's done is you know what i mean like like you know you'll be at your house but then at night you'll be watching something you're watching a scorsese movie like oh there he is yeah i mean no i mean and like you know i'm so happy of all the accolades that you're getting because it's long overdue you know i mean like that guy's he's been a legend for for years i met him at the uh the baftas he had this

43:18Mo Gilligan: speech and always stuck with me where he said along the lines where he's just like you know this isn't you know this winning this isn't the isn't the prize being here and getting to do what we do that's we've already won do you know what i mean it was that speech where i was like yeah i'm sitting there and i was like it's true man yeah i can't allow it was that i hear that i still want a window yeah yeah i hear it man um so you you know you had your show in like around about the in the 2000s i'd say that mid 2000 you had like your kind of breakthrough in terms of television my first tv spot was in 2003 2003 um i did a show it was 2003 or 2004 like my first ever bits on tv um uh was no sorry it was 2004 i got my uh i got my prince's trust business style blown 2003 oh wow i remember i did this spot um which the pinch just helped me get um to do my first ever tv appearance um and that was a show called terry and gabby which terry wargan yeah and and gabby was in like and that that was like my first ever show it was a chris evans actually his company made that tv show back in the day yeah um what's it like doing tv is a magician because i feel like magic is so um what's the word i'm looking for it's like the thing that you want to see there and there do you know i mean like where i guess i i have grown up watching magic on television but i guess there's something really really special about being there in the moment where magicians are okay cool here's the card everyone look at the card but don't show me um what's it like when that kind of starts changing when you're on television at this point initially i think naivety helped play a little part in me not noticing a difference i didn't treat it differently as a medium right um as i i went on i went on that tv that tv show and i just performed the same magic that i performed in the playground you know i mean that I performed anyway.

45:37But when I watched it back, I was like, ah, it feels flat. It doesn't have the same energy that it does when I'm on the playground. Because first thing is, I noticed that people on TV who are professional at it, they leave gaps for you to speak. You know, when you're talking normally, you might cut each other's sentences off. You jump in, you know. Whereas it's almost like a dance. So, and I think where I've evolved in the way I approach TV is I approach it with a choreography state of mind. Yeah. Which kind of helps the fact that when I was younger, I used to like be a B-boy. Really? Yeah, yeah.

46:25More body popping. Yeah. Can you still do it now? I could do bits. Is it? Yeah, yeah. that's how that's how the whole dynamo shuffle that i do my famous iconic card shuffle was created because i combined my love of body popping with my love of card skills yeah yeah yeah but yeah so like mapper youth club right mapper youth club was a place is a place in badford it still exists right and west bowling estate and it was one of the places where you would go after school whilst you were, if you have single parent families and their parents are working, it was a safe place for you to go after school and wait there and then your parents would pick you up later, right?

47:07And there's, you know, people in the community center who run it, who look after you, make sure you get fed and, you know, help you do your homework and stuff like that. And they do an amazing job, right? The guys there, they also have, like, there was a recording studio for people to, like, aspiring musicians. There was a dance studio, you know, and there was these guys who used to come and dance called Cash and Jimmy. And they were sick body poppers. And they did this class and I used to go every week religiously. And then there was a guy called Dennis John from Huddersfield and I travelled with them to go to his dance classes and I started learning all this stuff.

47:43I had these Mr Wiggles DVDs. Mr Wiggles is amazing. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. He was in the Missy Elliott videos

47:49Mo Gilligan: back in the day. Yeah, yeah. I know that from back in the day. YouTube times. Early YouTube times. Yeah, yeah. So I learnt all this stuff and then when i was kind of i was once showing some of my magic to cash and jimmy right and they go some of my cards goes um and they goes oh what if you like put like some of your popping into it you know that sounds sick and then i was started to add all these card moves and the body movement at the same time and that slowly evolves is what's become known now as the dynamo shuffle oh wow so so i've always because i've had that when i was younger had that kind of that nurturing in the choreography aspect of you know learning how to dance when i started to use that in my approach to television magic then it changed everything you know like that's why i think there's a uh hopefully it comes across but there's a fluidity in the tv performances that i do nowadays um and also because i'm because i'm from like i'm from that grime era right i'm from the i've learned body popping you know through mapper you know the people live there you know like like i said there was a lot of mcs you know yeah like we grew up you know um and our heroes like were like dizzy rascal do you know what i mean we haven't been to london we heard about this guy from london dizzy rascal yeah you know boy in the corner yeah like when i first come to london right you think of like you know now i think about who if i could meet anybody who would it be right but when i first come to london the only person i cared about meeting was dizzy rascal oh wow yeah and what was it like when you finally met dizzy rascal i phoned with him for my first tv show oh is it i phoned with him for my channel and that's when you first met him um yes yeah yeah that was my first time meeting him i met him dwe i met the new york generals right yeah yeah yeah I did the refutters, right?

49:44And I filmed them. But you know what? I was gutted, right? Not by meeting them. I filmed some amazing magic with them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know what? No one's ever seen it. Why? Because this was my first TV show. I didn't understand the process of TV. I didn't have no control over anything. Oh, okay. And the people, the TV company making the show, they had Final Cut on everything. and they they he wasn't in it they edit they didn't use any they used a tiny tiny snippet um but it was like a two second flash up on screen in the opening credits right and they never they never used the bit with him in i was gutted because he wasn't in it because i was so happy that what we'd film with him right but then i'd invited him down we had like a screening and i'd not seen it yeah yeah so i was seeing it for the first time and we had this screen and he and he came down and at the time this was when he was I think he'd just won the Merger you know it was a big deal at the time right and we watched this thing and he wasn't in it and he came up to me after and he's like oh man that was good but you could tell he was a bit like miffed but he wasn't in the show and I like I don't even think I even ever got to explain to him but I didn't have the control I didn't have final cut I mean luckily like he we're still friends to this day you know what I mean like we so you know it didn't affect the relationship and if anything, you know, relationships as strong as ever been.

51:11And I guess he's a good person to say as the final person for my phone book because that's five, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because, yeah, like, you know, Dizzy was and is a representation of, you know, of someone who does what he does and is unapologetically himself but has managed to make his own lane. Yeah, yeah. You know, and he's stayed authentic throughout. And I think that's why people, that's why I relate to him. Yeah. You know, although I wasn't from Bowie 3, I wasn't from East London, I was from Bradford, West Yorkshire, right? You know, but I could understand him easier than I could understand the people running the country and stuff like that.

51:55Do you know what I mean? Because he kind of spoke my language in a way that I could relate to. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. I think representation is important, you know, across the board. like for me right i've been so lucky to get into rooms i've got to to perform to people i've got to perform for but now right i don't think all right i've i've got ambitions to do stuff right but my ambitions have been way surpassed like i've achieved way more than i ever expected to way more than probably i was ever supposed to now my main ambition is you know can i inspire somebody who is doubting themselves who comes from a similar background who maybe thinks they don't know what their place in life is to believe that they're good enough yeah to go on and achieve what they want to achieve without having to you know without having to like become something that they don't really relate to do you know i mean yeah like you know i think you know one of the

52:58Mo Gilligan: hardest things in life is to be yourself yeah and and i think especially like for young people i I think when you're in a place where you're still discovering who you are in the world, where you're no longer a child, you know, you're a teenager or you're in your 20s, it's a time of self-discovery. And I guess people look at outlets like yourself where they're like, oh, wow, he does this thing and he dresses as him and he talks like me and listens to music I listen to. And having that relatability, I think I've realised that more than ever, a little bit because i think sometimes it can be easy to go to a nice event and you can kind of normalize that a little bit do you know what i mean where you go to a thing hey you could do the red carpet go upstairs if you want to go out through the back go through the back so you don't get bothered and people will make certain adjustments for your life that you don't even know you're getting used to if that makes sense yeah and i guess it's the relatability of you're like oh no that's don't do it for that that's just a bonus that happens i do it for when i guess someone might stop you in the street and say bro fucking love what you do man like big fan being watching this or i don't know if you've ever had someone where they like they start listing off things that you've done and you're like literally on the way here yeah when i was i was walking when i was walking here like genuinely i walked to the podcast right from home today right and a guy stopped me and he was just saying oh he literally is reeling off things he'd seen me do like and his favorite things yeah yeah and it's you know it's them moments you realize like wow maybe you know what i'm doing is is impacting someone yeah yeah you know like it's a purpose his face absolutely lit up when he saw me and that's like that's magic that's where i feel magic yeah yeah yeah like because i think you know what i've been doing this for so long now like you know like I said my first ever TV store for my first ever like real my career properly started you know in like 2003 right and that's like 23 years ago to have like to be to be 23 years deep and still not had to get a proper job you know what I mean like that's a testament but at the same time I feel like I finally I'm starting to understand what magic is because I used to think it was about the tricks I used to think it was about the slights you know I used to think it was about probably think it's more about me than it was about the other people because it was it was my way of feeling good and feeling like I've got a place in this world right over time what I've realized is that magic is making someone believe in something yeah right but what's the best thing you could do what the best magic you could ever do is magic that makes someone believe in themselves.

55:57And that's what I try and do with all my magic now because I think, you know, if you, you know, it's all well and good, you know, learning these skills, having the ability to move a crowd. But if you can move somebody to take action themselves, to believe that they are what everyone else sees, because more often than not, you know, we don't see ourselves the same way other people see us. No, no. But if you can, you know, give someone that confidence to go out and find their own magic in their own special way and share that with other people, then that's magic worth striving for. And suddenly, like, you know, once I realized that, it changed everything for me because it made, it gave me a purpose in every decision that I made.

56:45You know, when I do things like this or when I go on stage and perform, you know, I'm thinking about in 100 years from now, when I'm no longer around, will a relative of an audience member who's been here or somebody who's watched this podcast, will something that I've said will have maybe trickled down to inspire someone from that person's life that's then been passed on to that person? and will the magic keep spreading yeah you know 100 years from now will a little inkling of the magic that i've shared with the world still be spreading its magic

57:20Mo Gilligan: you talk about spreading your magic across the world what's some of the most obscure places that you've been to where your magic has been received in a different way because i remember you said that you went to i think it was a wedding or something like that in nigeria oh yeah i did i I did a performance, got flown out to Lagos. And it was an incredible experience. Like, from the minute we touched down, the minute we landed, right, the airport is like North Airport I've been to. A guy came up to us, and he had, like, our borders with our names on, so we assumed that, I mean, he was fair for us, right?

58:02He came up to us, and he just took our passports off of us, and he goes, right, I'll be back. And then he disappeared for like an hour. Oh, man. And we were like, we were panicking. But like there was no, we were in a place where we were still kind of like at customs. And like he was, it was all official, I think. And then eventually he came back and then he walked us past all these rows of people. Like we cut loads of queues, took us to the front of this. We got in this really beautiful, like fancy, like, you know, car, like, you know, nice Mercedes, whatever it was. right and then a police convoy drove us through through lagos to this incredible hotel and then i performed at this party um forgive me forgive my ignorance i can't remember the name of the person whose party it was but at the time he was a like a president of or a very high up like How did he see your stuff?

59:01Well, my TV show, so Magician Impossible, that series was seen in 183 territories around the world. Oh, okay.

59:09Mo Gilligan: And it was four seasons, but it was 16 episodes of TV that was dubbed in every language as well. Oh, okay. So that show was everywhere. A lot of my shows, all my shows kind of seem to go in, you know, get picked up in lots of different places. so yeah you know I get booked to perform all sorts of different places but that one was that one was crazy because the reactions were very different from what I normally get like I remember I was performing on one table right with the president's here the person whose party is right and then there's like T-Pain is sat here right because it was me and T-Pain who'd been flown in to perform at this party just you two?

59:54Just us two oh wow right um and like he's there and then there's like just loads of just loads of people but it was like i don't know who invited people to the party because it was like a super secure party but then there was just there was no spatial awareness okay everybody was just like it was like it was like they just let people in from the streets just to come in yeah yeah yeah um to just

1:00:22Mo Gilligan: to experience it wasn't like a wedding or anything it's just like a party no it was just some party um and like so i'm performing and then i did this piece of magic with the cards on the floor right and i left like left the cards there at the end right and something happened with the cards and it was a prediction type thing right and they reacted to the magic right first first they went their jaws dropped then they brought this will make sense when you if you saw the decor the decor there was like you know like leaves and stuff everywhere there was like you know big big massive leaves you know yeah the sort of leaves you could sometimes you can use them as like a brush like you know to clean things oh yeah yeah yeah type of big them big massive kind of um leaves right and they got loads of leaves and they basically spread them in a pattern around the cards and said we can't move the cards now they're sacred like we had to keep so is it yeah like so it was i've never had that experience anywhere else oh my god like i don't know like i mean i guess it's a testament to my work because yeah yeah yeah they believed in the it was like this is real magic yeah yeah this is this is black magic yeah um but also in terms of magic it's like you've now received honors you know you've you've got an obe as well and in uh 2013 for your services to magic um are you in the magic circle as well yes yeah yeah yeah for anyone listening what what does that mean when you're in the magic circle is it is it a club is it is it a place you go to is it like a membership is it what like it's a bit like a fight club about the fighting basically you can't talk about fight club oh you can't even talk about it like it is it's it's what you know about is what you know about it it's i know that's what i'm saying i don't know it's it's a it's a secret secret well not so secret society for magicians oh wow you have to be at a certain level to get in you have to be like a big audition to get in you've got to audition yeah yeah yeah oh yeah you have to audition to become a member and you're not allowed to like expose any of the things that goes on there secrets can you get thrown out of the magic circle yeah yeah is it is that for exposing tricks yes oh wow yeah people there's people like Like Penn and Teller were kicked out of the circle because their performances often part expose some of the...

1:02:49They expose things to still fool you and make it better. Do you know what I mean? They have a different performing style. Oh, I see. But then recently they've been allowed back in. Loud back in. Legends, you know what I mean? How can you... They only do good for magic, you know what I mean? Is there a card you have? Is there a location? Is it a location? It's in Houston. Oh, is it? Yeah, it's in Houston. In America? No, Houston, as in Houston. Oh, is it? Yes. Not Houston. If it was in Houston, we'd have a problem.

1:03:24Mo Gilligan: Shit. I said to myself, oh, that's a long place to go for magic. Oh, so do they have them all around the world? There's an American society, Society of American Magicians. Yeah. There's also the International Brotherhood of Magicians in America. Oh, wow. Yeah, there's different sites. I was in New York in 2002, right, for the joint IBM SAM 100 Years Centennial Convention, right, back in 2002, right? And that's when I first met David Blaine. There was this big conference in the Hillen Hotel, right and the avenue of the americas right halfway through performing some magic there i was flown out there as like i was there to you know to be there as a young up-and-coming magician as stephen the magician yeah yeah and it was there through one of my performances um uh one of the guys jumps up and he goes this kid's uh dynamo and that's when i got given the name dynamo oh okay that's how you got the name yeah yeah yeah and the people who said it they're not names that you necessarily know but they were you know a guy called paul wilson and aaron fisher who are like legends in magic you know they write some of the best books and that sort of stuff they're behind the scenes guys yeah yeah yeah um but like they're very well respected and they were they were the ones who shouted it so like from the off like i you know meeting those guys i was already buzzing the fact that they played they gave me my name yeah yeah yeah i'll be honest when they first said it i didn't really know what it meant but but they said to me no it's a good thing it's a compliment um and you know i went i remember going and getting a dictionary when i you know when i left and kind of working out what it is and it kind of yeah i thought oh you know i can see that it makes sense do magicians hang out with each other some magicians yeah yeah like like i i've gone through phases so i have a small i have a small circle yeah small magic circle of people that I speak to regularly.

1:05:32I used to speak to a lot of magicians. I used to hang out with a lot of them. But then as I become more successful and a bit more private in what I'm doing, like two things. I don't want to be inspired by, I don't want to accidentally like be inspired by someone else's magic and interpret my magic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I want to create original, like I want to do like original performances and presentations. Yeah, of course. and it's very easy to emulate when you're around it when you see someone in it so it's easy as well to like to not always remember exactly where you saw something you know um but then also it's also very easy for other magicians to maybe see what i'm doing who have an understanding of magic right and then maybe take something of mine that i'm working on maybe i'm working on something new for a new tv show i don't want anyone else seeing it until it's until it's cooked yeah yeah yeah ready or going out and you know doing a rendition of something yeah because that that that's the part where you've got it's similar to comedy right you know yeah yeah i guess so it's interesting i

1:06:35Mo Gilligan: think with with comedy i don't watch a ton of comedy but mainly because i detach myself away from it when i'm at home or and i've and i'm doing stuff that's not attached to my life that is stand-up so i tend to watch a lot of documentaries love wildlife documentaries um that's just my main thing like movies i listen to music i listen to probably everything apart from comedy mainly because it's not so much sometimes it is that i don't want to be like it's like inspired but like i like to laugh i love laughing do you know what i mean but sometimes i'm like i've got this bit and now here's something and i'm like oh that's like the bit that i was gonna write but now it's like all right i'm throwing that out the window now that's the thing as well i don't want to i I want to create from like a unique standpoint and yeah like I've got you know like you might I don't know if you work with like if you have any like people who help you write stuff yeah yeah yeah I work with a writer or like all friends that you might share stuff with first and define it so like you know I've got like some of my inner circle like you know like I've got you know friends like you know like like Robert Pound and Darren Sarsby and Pete Turner you know Lloyd Barnes like these are people that are like incredible magicians behind the scenes you know they're like magic writers do you know okay if they're like my producers you know if i like you know if i was a musician and i want a good beat yeah i go that's like your producer oh wow i didn't think of that they're like people you know i work with but like because of that i can i kind of even for their sake as well if they have good ideas that they input into my stuff i don't want other people seeing that and stealing their ideas you know yeah yeah yeah yeah so like we keep it we keep it quite tight but at the same time you know So I think in order to perform to the best of my abilities, I think collaboration is hugely important and valuable.

1:08:30And it allows me to create things that I never would be able to create if it was just me on my own. Yeah. So it's any good project, making a TV show. I mean, everything from your directors to the researchers. you know yeah like i think there's so much goes into the bigger projects you know yeah i'm i'm getting to do things on a way bigger scale than ever would have done you know back in the day and with that you know comes bigger teams and bigger support groups yeah yeah yeah but it's about for me really maximizing the like getting as much juice out of that yeah opportunity as i possibly can because i'm lucky to get this opportunity yeah you know and i think i want to find the way to keep keep surprising people you know like keep when they watch a show they they they never watch they never come and see the same thing twice you know even if they see the same show like right now right i'm preparing to go on stage at the underbelly boulevard right in soho right um i did 50 shows there last year um and they want me back oh yeah you was telling me yeah they said we've got we've got a whole month that you can have so i'm like all right i'll come back but then like they want me to do i'm doing the same show but i've i've added like you know like 15 20 minutes of fresh material in there so that even if you've seen the show once you're going to see it fresh again but also yeah also like i try and be as present as possible when i'm performing because audiences can give you so many gifts you know they can they can say something or do something on a night that changes the entire feeling of the show yeah right definitely you know and I get that from watching comedians a lot of the time.

1:10:12Like the best comedians I've noticed know how to take a heckle or something and turn it into something that makes the show better.

1:10:20Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I've seen Dave do that on stage, I've seen people like Jimmy Carr do it, you know, yourself. You know what I mean? Like I almost try and orchestrate happy accidents that happen with the audience now. You know what I mean? I always like when they make the decision, not me, it's always better. but how can I get them to that point without me guiding it? Do you know what I mean? Because it's got to feel spontaneous. I guess, you know, but you probably have the same. The more you get into something, like, that's what I was saying at the beginning, I don't think I will ever learn enough about magic in my entire lifetime because every performance I give, I learn something new from it.

1:10:57Mo Gilligan: And there's always something new to learn as well. And your live show starts next week, right? Yeah, the 30th of January to the 28th of Feb. You know, you mentioned your legacy a little bit, but how does that start to look for you? You know, as someone who is a pioneer of magic in this country and around the world, and you're really like flying the flag for people that are from, you know, a council estate background, a working class and might feel that like, oh, maybe magic, that's not something for me. Do you know what I mean? Because sometimes it's easy to go into, I don't know, maybe sport or music.

1:11:32Mo Gilligan: and you know you're someone that is a british icon do you know i mean you don't get an obe for just turning up you're really like flying the flag and the fact that you have a tv show that's across the world in different languages and when people think of british magicians i feel like you're there and i think of british magicians i'm probably gonna it's probably you and paul daniels if i'm being completely real and there's other magicians i feel like i feel like both me you were probably we're of the age where we just missed the paul daniels era you know i mean like when i don't remember seeing him perform magic live much on tv when i was growing up but i remember seeing him host like quiz shows and game shows yeah yeah it was a personality it was a constant yeah most definitely um you know i only really got to know paul as an adult when i was when i was already you know making a name for myself yeah yeah of course across paths um he came and did a show in Bradford actually oh wow that was St George's Hall which was cool magic is something that ever since my grandpa first showed me it I thought it was the coolest thing ever yeah not everybody in my life at the time thought it was cool too but you know it wasn't probably the the most obvious path for someone to follow but I think if my career is a testament to anything it's that there is really no blueprint to life.

1:13:01If you do something one way, I believe that you obviously should do things that are positive. You should do things that help other people. I'm not saying go and live your life exactly how you want it and don't follow no rules and be a bad person. No, no, no, no. I'm saying if you can live a life that in one way, shape or form helps with the betterment of other people then that is a incredible thing you know i mean like you know don't underestimate the impact you can have by by helping someone with the most simplest of things you know um the world needs teachers the world needs you know people role models you know and not role models that see on tv doing crazy things like i might do on tv like we need you know like i i think the reason that um i've gravitated to so you know but i get i get inspired by so many incredible kind of you know um male performers like some of the people we talked about is that i didn't have male role models growing up yeah i only had the people on tv or the people that i read about in books or newspapers you know um and i think part of me wants to be that role model for somebody else do you know what i mean yeah wants to show that you know what i'm someone who didn't have the normal start in life didn't follow the normal path somehow i've turned out all right so you know maybe there's a little bit of hope for anyone else who feels maybe a little bit of loss or feels a bit like they don't really belong in the world uh in the way that they think they should yeah i think we all belong and every single person you meet knows something that you don't they all have experiences in life that you will maybe never get yeah so like value those experiences because they are what make you you and nobody else can tell you who you are you know no one can tell you what you can or can't do um i've done things that even i think it's impossible and i'm a magician you know i mean i do be impossible for a living but i don't know how i've ended up in some of the places i've ended up um i just know i've stayed true to myself along the way and i've done i've worked hard and i believe that you know if you put your right energy into the right things then the world will

1:15:31Mo Gilligan: kind of give it back yeah dynamo man it's such a pleasure to have you on the show i feel like we've always met in passing tv shows and stuff but to sit down and really like pick your brains and ask you these questions questions which i sit there and it still blows my mind it was like the way you dropped banks was like yeah it shouldn't be banks if dave chappelle honestly like when it comes to magic yeah i think you really do fly that flag do you know i mean you're an absolute like national treasure man i'm feel like we need to protect you at all costs oh thank you you know i mean man and It's such a pleasure.

1:16:06Mo Gilligan: It's been great. It's felt like just hanging out. Yeah, no, it's such a pleasure having you on the pod, my friend. And this has been your beginning, middle and end. Thank you very much, bruv. Appreciate you, my guy, man. Much respect, man. Thank you, Dynamo, bruv. Thanks for doing that, man. Thank you. Hey, what's up? Thank you so much for listening to the podcast today. Now, a lot goes into making each episode. I know you hear my voice, but there's a team behind the scenes who helped make it. and if you did enjoy it I'd really really appreciate if you could show the love to them by giving us five stars and if you also have the time please leave us a review it's always appreciated and we love reading the comments and of course we want to keep making it better thank you for listening and have a great day peace