Ep 101 - "Talking Saved My Life" - Professor Green

0:00Hey guys, it's Drew Afualo from the comment section. Listen, it's time to stop settling for hair products that just don't work, baby. With all the prestige brands at Sephora, upgrading your routine is easy. If your hair needs repair, they've got the K18 Leave-In Molecular Repair Hair Mask. If you're trying to level up your wash day, the Kerastase Elixir All-Time Hair Oil leaves your hair looking ridiculously shiny without feeling heavy. Also, Sephora makes it super convenient with free shipping and same-day delivery. Shop hair at Sephora and give your hair the upgrade it's been waiting for. Hey, what's up, people?

0:36My name is Mo Gilligan. And right now, this is my podcast, Beginning, Middle and End. Now, my guest today grew up in East London and still very much reps Hackney. He burst onto the scene with a number one hit record, which is called Read All About It. He's got a best-selling autobiography, has represented powerful documentaries which include suicide and addiction, is a huge voice for mental health. He's one of the most honest voices in British music. So please welcome to my podcast, Professor Green. Thanks for doing the pod, bro. I really appreciate it, man. It's wicked to be a man. Really appreciate it, man.

1:17You're one of those people I love. I always feel like I see you at, we always see each other at bare events. You're always passing ships in there. Bare events. I can't remember there was one we was at and I think it might've been the GQ one. Do you remember that a few years ago? Yeah. And I remember that was like my first event and I was like, oh right, this is like, this is quite big, man. But then I think I seen yourself. Who else? There's a few of us. And I think we all done that thing where, cause I remember going and they were like, it's an invite for one, basically. Yeah.

1:47Professor Green: So you can't take, you've got no bridging. But I feel like, I can't remember who else it was. It was me, you. I think it was Ella Eyre Yep And I want to say maybe AJ Odudu Yeah And was Sinead Harnett there as well Was it that one where Ray was? Was it the one Was it the one that was at the It was the one that was at the Edition Hotel Or was it the one that was at the Tate? The Tate The Tate, right Yeah, Ella was there Yeah And we've done that thing where like We all got like the invite Where they just say, look, it's just one And then we all found our way to each other And just And we stayed upstairs And we were like Hey, welcome Yeah, cool Yeah Yeah Yeah Charles you finally tried quickly Yeah man Yeah bro How are you and yourself though bro?

2:29You know what? Good Yeah Yeah Yeah yeah yeah Yeah Because I know you're always releasing music and stuff And you're in that kind of space of doing stuff on TV and whatnot Like I didn't So you grew up in Hackney right? I didn't know that you know No way I don't know why I thought you was from South I don't know why

2:48Professor Green: Because I've been there for 13 years Well yeah there's that Everyone tells me I'm one of the very Southeast London. Yeah, there's that. But like, I don't know why you give off like a South vibe. Does that make sense? You're not like an East, like, because most people from like East, I feel like they're proper, like, you can hear the twang. Does that make sense? But then because I feel like Hackney is not far from Islington, so the twang ain't as East London-y. Does that make sense? Yeah, so like Wiley's, like, I would say Wiley's, like, we're all proper East London. But like, when you hear Wiley, Wiley's like, but Annie's the generation before, innit?

3:18Professor Green: So there is a little bit more of the, I feel like the Cockney was really, to be fair, the Cockney kind of migrated anyway. It went to Essex, didn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. After like post-war, the East London aspiration was get to Essex. All my family are in Essex now. I've got nobody in Hackney. Yeah. Maybe an uncle, aunt and first cousin. I didn't know Essex was as big as what it was, you know, until I got older. Goes to the coast, bro.

3:44When someone said the other day, big up Steve-o, because he was like, Steve of the Mamma was like oh come do my podcast I was like alright cool and then when I see where he lives I thought this is still in we're still in Essex and I've been driving over for an hour and a half I think my perception has always been like maybe Romford Brentwood that's as far as I feel like Essex goes for me

4:06Professor Green: my dad was in Brentwood so that was as far as I went for a long time yeah so for me it was always like even closer than that like Woodford Cheapford yeah yeah yeah my dad moved to Woodford when I was like 18 And I was like, even then I was like, this is a bit too far for me. And I jumped ship. That was when I first moved out. Okay. What was East London like back in the day though? Because you were talking about skating before, innit? And like how there was like, you'll be skating and stuff with your friends, but like the mandim are still there on the block doing what they're doing. Do you know what I mean?

4:36Like, what was that like when you was going?

4:38Professor Green: I was introduced to skating by who would eventually be the oldest. You get me? Like they were, I mean, they were oldest then obviously, because they're age difference, but they were on skates when I started playing out. And when I remember, bro, I kid you not, I remember the first time I was out and I went round the corner on the estate and I was at six and I bumped into a guy called Mark Warren. And he was like, you're Pete's kid, isn't he? And I was like, yeah, it was like cool. You know what I mean? Like under the arm and that was it. And then got to know Wayne and Sean Catelyn, Terry and everyone.

5:09Professor Green: Chesty was here them times. And there was just, there was so many characters in the flats. and it was like i could skate on the ends but it was still like a bit iffy like skating got me into so much and took me away from a lot of trouble for a long time because i took it seriously um played street hockey ice hockey for a little bit but then almost as soon as i started to make progress with ice hockey i got out of it and got into something called aggressive inline skating which is basically what skateboarders do on skateboards but on inlines skateboards called us fruit booters we called them wood pushers save the trees and all that um but we became friends at a certain level and i got to like a competitive level with that so that kept me out of trouble for a little while but there was still a lot of like going to clapton station in my normal clothes getting to liverpool street going to mcdonald's toilet and putting my skate clothes on and not telling anyone that i listened to nirvana whereas now i'm sat here dressed like a skater you know what i mean like could i look more more any more middle-aged than white But it really like, it was just, it was different in it because I think things weren't as accessible as they were.

6:15Professor Green: So I only found my way to this, like I grew up on jungle outside of that. That was the news. Well, but at my nan's house, it was Jason Donovan, Kylie Minogue and Inklebert Ampadink. Luckily I escaped that quite quickly. But I grew up on, on jungle, but then through skating got into loads of music that I wouldn't have otherwise listened to. But if I'd have told certain people that I would have been called a grunger and that wouldn't have been good for me. Yeah, because there was a time where like Oh, you're a grunge-er I remember that in school Oh, you're a grunge-er And like that would be like kids that would be into skating And weirdly, that's how I knew about Green Day, sorry Green Day, yeah Green Day back in the day Green Day, time of your life Good riddance is like one of the most I don't think I don't think there's a song that Encapsulates, encompasses I don't know what the right word is here But it is nostalgia in a nutshell It's so like It's melancholy It's so happy But it's so sad You know Like all said and done I hope you've had the time of your life Whoa Yeah I knew about them lot So in school We had a bunch of kids that And I'm talking like more Between like year seven And year eight This is when I first Was at school And You know You can call them grunges Or whatever So at the top of our school They used to be like I say the top So I went in Pimlico's school So we had about Or about four playgrounds like it was all kind of split into different areas.

7:36And it was a little hill where we had like a, it was that sport where you jump in the sand, high jump, whatever it is. They used to chill up there and they used to bring their skateboards in. And I remember like some of my friends, like who went to the same primary school, secondary school, you tried to chill with the same people, wasn't it, that you went to school with. But very quickly, I got ostracized of like, yeah, you're wearing Reebok classics. It's not, it doesn't really, you don't really fit in here. But they used to listen to To Green Day Yeah Yeah that's how I knew about it So I was like Oh It's probably how

8:11Professor Green: No it's definitely how I How I found Green Day Blink 182 No FX Skunk and Nancy Nirvana All that stuff that That I kind of didn't I didn't Smashing pumpkins I didn't I didn't play When certain people Came round to my mans Skunk and Nancy bro Yeah Because I am I met Skunk At a festival I was in I was It was at V Festival Back in the day When V Festival what used to happen and she was like is it cool if my niece gets a picture I think it was her niece or a goddaughter and I was like why are you asking me for a photo I want to photo with you I don't think I asked yeah it was Skin yeah Skin sorry my bad yeah Skin man I only seen it because we done done Masked Singer yes she was on she was one of the people on Masked Singer and that was I think maybe the first year I had done it and I was like a bit starstruck yeah because like And you know It's like you've done You've been part of the show But The hardest thing is When you was on it I was like Oh I know you innit So I felt like That one was annoying Because you know On the show yeah I feel like There's always going to be Someone revealed And everyone looks at me like Come on man This is You should have known Yeah This should have been But I knew everyone On the panel From different places Yeah bro I was like I was like How did I not get that one Can I tell you a secret Go on Well not even a secret Just like I was kind of guided still When I went off Yeah There was Well there's two sides to it On one hand I got paid the same amount of money And I only had to do one show Yeah yeah yeah On the other side of it I was like The guy who stayed on Was rubbish And I had If you ever heard The ABBA I had ready For the next round bro I'm like I really wanted to sing Some of them songs Like I took the The prep series Would you say that's the performer in you Yeah In that respect And you know what It was There was something really nice At that point In being able to do something but not having to do it with my face to actually just being able to like just not have to be Professor Green for a bit yeah yeah yeah that must be nice within the growth of though of you as an artist where you're like I get to just do cool stuff now within my music career and also things that like you know like my children can watch that must feel like oh like that's where I'm in my life my son hated the costume swear swear why did he hate it?

10:27Professor Green: I feel like that might have like I feel like that might have been the vibe in the audience as well because you was T-bag Yeah, he was teabag. Yeah, because he looked at it, but he was quite a scary teabag. It was massive. It was tall. It was so tall to the point where I was like, who is this man? Peter Grouch. And it looked bigger as well. That's the problem. It looked bigger on TV. Yeah, he was just like, I don't like him. I was like, and then I took the hat off, obviously, and he was like, oh my God, that is you. I still don't like the teabag. The honesty that kids give you is so humbling. Straight up.

10:57You're like, oh, yeah. But I wanted to go back in terms of where I first Came in contact with you When I watched Obviously you You know You was battle rapping And stuff And I'm talking I think it might have been For me anyway It would have been Jump Off But I'm not talking Jump Off When it was at Scarlett Indoors I'm talking Story Outside When it was on YouTube Yeah And it used to be outside Benny Scars Used to I'm talking that Yeah yeah yeah That was it

11:26Professor Green: Astoria Yeah yeah yeah Still battling outside the venue You know, we were just outside in the streets. Yeah, we were outside as well, though. Because you know what I loved about Jump Off? A lot of UK hip hop was like, kind of like uni or backpack. You know, that was the presumption. It was kind of nerdy or it was. And a lot of, there were a lot of people in the UK hip hop scene that weren't that. You know what I mean? And it felt like Jump Off gave that a bit of a home because it was more, you know what I'm saying? It weren't the uni thing. What was that time like for you, though? because I feel like at that time, YouTube was almost kind of what like TikTok is now to a generation.

12:01Yeah. Well, like you're going to have a generation. It's like, oh, like I watched this person on TikTok when I was in school. And that's the same with me and my friends, you know, like we'd go on YouTube and we type in battle raps. And the ones that came up, especially for the UK anyway, was Jump Off. And it was, you were one of the people that was like, I'd say kind of like ahead of their time in some ways, Where you was also like I felt like you was The UK's representative In some ways Do you know what I mean Yeah What was that like for you Because you were still Quite young at that time Yeah man

12:29Professor Green: I was like 18 to 21 And I was battling really It was mad yeah So I was at Adam Deacon's flat So like China Michael Vu Who's now Jimmy In The Gentleman Yeah yeah yeah That man gave me So many firsts And opportunities You know He got me my apprenticeship At a desktop publishers Seriously Thank you Michael and we were just friends from the ends in it and they were older and cooler and they still are older and cooler um but they've been making music for years and we were at adams it was on a friday night and everyone was rapping and i someone said something about me in a lyric and i got put on the spot and then no one expected me to do this and i rapped the lyric back and cast whoever said something about me and they were like what you can rap and i was like oh that's bright red in the face let me get a stone didn't it so i'm like let me get under the table i'm just knocking out bits of weed them times nothing else you know like nothing no creative bone in my body and um but it felt like something when i did it and then so i've gone home and i've just started because i've always listened to music so intently and i love the music in music but i love the words as well so you know all my favorite rappers or musicians even wrote about what they you know they sung or rapped about what they thought felt or observed and so when i started freestyling that was what i did and big up skinny man as well i remember him saying the dangerous thing about freestyling is the truth comes out and it's true but i started to to do that and i even to this day i don't really like putting things on paper i'll just walk around the studio with my rap hand saying stuff until something clicks and i'm like let me jump on the mic and then often more will come out when i'm recording that take and i'll say stuff i'm not even i don't even know i'm gonna say and it took a while to find my confidence to do that um especially walking into the studio with producers that i didn't know but like that was the beginning of it adam's flat um and like literally two weeks later the apprenticeship i spoke about was at select type says and with michael i went out to do the lunch run it was always like a fight to try and do the lunch run because tutus you've got about an hour of work um and then i saw a poster on like uh whatever those boxes are the telephone boxes or electrician boxes you know the green things that you always see engineers at um for a thing called lyric pad and it was rap battles and um and i said to michael yo there's this thing let's go to it so we went to it it was a what is now i think blues kitchen in camden it used to be called oba and i did my first battle and i won yeah and that's like did you make any money okay even when that people are like you made 50 bags off because there was that jump off thing that was like one of the biggest wins for me but it was 50 000 pound of myspace marketing which equates to god knows what okay you know i'm saying what they don't say that when you win i would have got my teeth fixed if i do you know what i'm saying um but yeah that was where it started man and i the jump off actually poached me from that event i can't remember if it was harry or arrow because it was run by two brothers in it um and one of them was at the event i think it was harry and he came up to me and he's like you should come to the jump off and then I battled again and I lost.

15:33Professor Green: I was pissed. But this is shy Steven, which is, I have a weird relationship with the idea of being called shy now to the point where when people go like, who, I, I don't even know. I've just bumped into them. They're like, professor, I'm like, Steven, like, i.e. my son is here, please remember yourself. And then they'll be like, see, you're right. And I'll, you know, we're having a conversation and they're like, hi. And then my son will just look at them like and they're like oh are you shy he's not shy he doesn't know you you know what I mean like but I always got told I was shy because I was I was I was considered I think but I kind of took that being shy on and so for me to step out it felt a lot like stepping out on my shell to be able to do that but I found comfort in a place that was really like incredibly stressful I don't know what I'm gonna say I don't know who I'm gonna battle I don't know what beat is going to be played everyone in the room once i got to a point was on side but even with that came the pressure of if i make the tiny slip they're on me because jump off was like a zoom bro it was people went it was aggy yeah it wasn't it wasn't like a a friendly environment because it was like if you went there for example to perform you'd bring your friends as well so already like and you had like different you know for anyone listening that might not be familiar with what the jump off was you'd have dance battles as well um you'd have i think later on they started doing like the producer battles yeah where that was as well yeah later on i think i done one of the the stand-up segments so you do like 10 minutes oh my god so hostile like because no one wanted to go there to laugh anyway like i was like people are really here for the music but laughter is not what we want at all do you know what i mean so it was almost like stepping into the lion's den And then it, like you say, it would finish with a booty shaking competition.

17:23Do you know what I'm saying? So I guess for, for someone like yourself, did it always feel like pressure? Because there was also like comparisons with like an Eminem, for example, when it came to.

17:33Professor Green: Yeah, me and Estelle, the first time we bumped into each other, she was judging and, and Semtex as well. And Semtex has done huge things for me throughout my career. Big up, Sem, man, proper, proper guy. But at that time It was just like This immediate comparison To Eminem And I'm like Allow it But then And I think I said Something quite rude In my next round You know And it's like How can you tell me I'm copying Eminem I'm rapping in a British accent I'm using our words Our slang You know what I mean But it's like But that's the only point Of reference And to be fair It wasn't They could have called me Vanilla Ice So in truth Yeah It was a compliment More than anything I'm I'm I'm a big fan Of battle rapping anyway Like I won't pretend to be like, I listened to this man and that person and stuff.

18:19But one thing I love doing if I'm traveling for like, I don't know, a couple of hours is like, let me, let me check on a good battle rap. Do you know what I mean? Like, cause there's nothing better than like, cause you can't read the comments. Like if you're, you know, if your phone's on airplane mode, you downloaded it, you just gotta be like, rah, let me, let me take that back. But there's nothing better than being in business class when it's quiet and everyone's sleeping. You go, oh, hey, what's up?

18:43Professor Green: bro it's so you know where like this it's kind of moved on now so it's gone it's kind of moved on from the and people still will add bits of freestyle at the front end of their written verses yeah it's very thought out now and it's it's just different i don't think one is better than the other yeah they're different strengths right but some of the stuff that people write is incredible oh it's crazy i'm like and it's the it's the it's the it's the kind of hybrid right because it there is an element of comedy to it because you don't want to be violent yeah yeah Cause that gets a bit boring You know what I mean?

19:11Professor Green: Yeah, yeah, yeah And if you're going to be violent The metaphors have got to be crazy I remember something about poking someone And it was just like The seatbelt won't buckle up I was like Is that Tay Rock? Yeah, I think so And then it was in a circle The block twice Like I'm trying to find a place to park Oh That stuff makes me go Yeah Bro, I get When I watch that stuff And I'm like Maybe one day Yeah, yeah But you battle people across the point Like you obviously had your famous battle with Jin Yeah What was that like for you? Because I feel like Was there a lot of pressure? Because I feel like One you're from the UK Did you always feel like You was also having to rep The UK as well?

19:53Do you know what I mean? Because I guess it's that it's different now Because social media and the internet Has opened things up So it doesn't feel like I guess from maybe an artist now Feeling like Yeah I am repping it But also like People know my stuff They've seen my stuff Whereas I guess at that time Must have been a lot

20:08Professor Green: there was no like there was no respect for it there was none and but that kind of made you know i've i've i've long said low expectations are easy to exceed and in that in that instance they were because people expected nothing of me the first rapper that i battled um forgive me i forget his name he um axel bad boy rapper just signed the development deal to shady like bad boy rapper But no one expected anything of me So when I gave Saturn It was like whoa So I had like I could hear whispers in the crowd You know like What's this white boy doing He's from the UK What is he doing Do you know what I mean Like it was What year is this roughly Are we saying like 2009, 10?

20:51Professor Green: No earlier than that Earlier than that Because I'm 42 now And I was So this one might have been 2007 It was just as I signed To Max Skinner's record label So I was 21 So it was 21 years ago Wow Wow. Oh my God, man. Yeah, man. So like 2004. But what was that like, though? Did it feel like this is it? Like, you know, you're on the biggest stage, you know, especially, you know, it's almost like a US, UK. It was the Power Summit. Like that was, they were the biggest battles. There was a genuine 50 ,000 cash prayers. Pressure. But then like it started to work. But then when I was back in Sirius Jones and they've never released the videos to these, by the way, ever.

21:29Yeah. Yeah. Because you couldn't see the videos. It's not that now you can sign up.

21:32Professor Green: It was all filmed. But when I was battling Sirius, they stopped me mid run and went, yeah, you've stepped over the line. What? There's no line. We're in a, like, a lot of people wanted to see the Sirius because Jin had never really been beaten, had it? And Sirius had beaten Jin. So there was a lot of, and people were making side bets. There's all this stuff going on. And everyone wanted the Sirius Jones and Jin final. But I beat Sirius because the crowd weren't having it. They were chanting, UK, UK. and they knew I got hard done by her because they watched what happened yeah yeah yeah yeah and so I beat Sirius and then when I battled Jin one it was like I'd already gone through two people and what had happened with Sirius and all the stopping and starting and all that palaver not to make excuses and then I run out I just you know like and also it felt like Jin was saying stuff that some of what was some of what he kind of had prepped for it was more relative to Sirius than it was me but Jin's a bad boy And I said to him after, I was like, listen, if I'm going to get beat by anyone, I'm fucking happy it's you, bro.

22:34Professor Green: Like I gave him his props. You know what I mean? I don't say that. I'm like, nah, man. Like, seriously, I grew on you watching 106 and Park. Like you were the guy. You and Poster Boy were the guys. I'm a fan, bro. Like I don't. And you'll see it in how I've never charged for a feature. I'm one of the only people, I swear, online that still reposts other people's music. Like I've never been threatened in that way. Like I love I love the I love the culture I love the music I love You know I'm a fan first Before anything else And it sucked I didn't want to lose Especially not on a world stage But you know I got there And I came second And I'm But also bro Like some of those names You're saying Do you know what I mean It's like Sirius Jones Gin Like there are people That I would watch On YouTube Back in the day And be like Oh and the fact that like To have your name Spoken about In those conversations Do you know what I mean And this is before like your music career had even taken off.

23:32Professor Green: Yeah. It happened the other way around for me. So there was like, there's long been this idea that battle rappers can't make music. So that was another hurdle for me to get over as well. But the wicked thing was I didn't have to like, I weren't running after DJs. DJs were coming and judging the jump off and saying to me, where's your music? And so, excuse me, when I came out with music, I had a place to go and get it played. And then Mike Skinner saw me battle. um bricks in academy you see my face like yeah yeah yeah he saw me um he saw me battle at bricks in academy at the bboy championships jump off hosted a battle there um which was again i've never seen you know there's like what 6 000 people there them times it was like happening um and i never knew he was in the crowd and then i get a message from harry or arrow saying mike skinner was was in attendance and he wants you to battle on every stop of his um 13 rounds tour which was when he was doing arenas so i then went and battled uh every stop of that tour um and got to see behind the curtain um i met kane mckaynor he was as and um and gets was on the tour with him as well um and they were supporting and it was like i got to see behind the curtain and i was like this is viable you know i'm saying this is a viable career option i can actually there is something here if I just keep going and then after that had a conversation with Mike I'll never forget because he booked me at Addison Lee and I've come down from the same desktop publishers um to get in a car and I've got in Addison Lee and the guys looked at me and I've gone what's your name was that Stephen he went no I'm waiting for a professor I went oh Professor Green he went

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26:14Professor Green: Wayfair, every style, every home.

26:20Professor Green: He went, he went, what? And I went, yeah. I was just like, why did you book it under Professor Green? And then I went to meet him at some posh restaurant near Tower Bridge. And he was wearing his, did he have a two or three finger ring? Just looking like the pop star he was, man. Like the huge success that he was. And he's just so smart. I'm always in awe. Whenever I talk to him, I try and make sure I do more listening than talking. He's so, so, he just, the way he sees things, his perspective on life is super interesting. And he's, you know, at a point, I remember he signed me, so I signed to his record label and he said, you're hanging around with the wrong people.

27:01Professor Green: I was partying too much and, you know, experimenting with that side of things. And I just listened because I have this thing and I was talking outside about it. If someone says something in a way that clicks with me, It's immediately integrated. Like when I go to therapy, if my therapist articulates something, like he puts all the pieces of something that I've got all the pieces of, but can't put together and says it back to me, it just, it is my behaviors change immediately. But until that point, I can't, I'm just like, I've got all the pieces and I can discuss them. I can talk a good game, but my behaviors aren't changing.

27:34Professor Green: And when he said that, I literally did that. And it was like, I took a look at a projection of all that I've been doing. And I went, yeah, you're right. I even saw the end of a relationship because there was stupidness that was carrying on that. I was like, I can't be a part of that anymore. And I got serious about it. And then what was annoying was, um, you know, Napster, Lionwire had really impacted the music industry and, um, Warner withdrew the financing to all of their subsidiaries by like two, one of which was six, seven, nine. Um, but Mike lost finance into his record label. So I never got my album out with him.

28:08Professor Green: But if you look at what he did, like he signed myself, example the mitchell brothers and myself an example have gone on to do really well so as an a and i he's he's brilliant you know and i know he felt a level of we've spoken about it i hope he wouldn't mind me saying this but he felt a level of like i didn't get it to where i wanted to so therefore it wasn't a success but i'm like bro and i've said this to him you changed my life you showed me behind the curtain that taught me that it it was viable like i just have to keep going and even when people around me stop making music pro what you're doing man you're just going to be a two bob shotter for the rest of your life you can't keep you know i'd left the desktop publisher a long time before that and wasn't doing anything apart from music that that that really you know should be celebrated you know what i'm saying and like everyone's going what are you doing you've got to find something else to do you're smarter than this you're better than this and i'm like i don't know if it's blind stupidity or blind faith it's probably a good mix of the two But I was just like Music I didn't set a record Until I was 28 That's crazy So when you got signed Was you How old was you 27 27 Yeah And then you done So the battle rap stuff Was when like You was like what 21 Yeah 18 to 21 Oh wow So you went like almost I got signed at 21 By Mike But then that went undone Eight to nine years Basically So like When you're at that stage Of when you get signed And you're making a bit of money And you're partying and stuff Because you spoke You spoke about going off the rails and stuff like that how easy is that for an artist because i think sometimes it's easy to judge on the outside of like oh well this is happening that's happening but do you think there's something at play with being so young and having so much money does that make sense or whether it's so success or whether it's having i don't know a team an entourage or accessibility do you know i mean those things are accessible anyway in it and like but i i kind of had a period of experimentation because you didn't do anything apart from smoke weed which was strangely social socially acceptable um anything else if you've done anything other than weed you were a crackhead right even though a lot of the people that would have used to say that to me ended up being actual you know i'm saying and then so i saw i sort of i was with a girl who was older than me by like four and a half years and i remember she come home one night we were living together and she'd done mandy and i was i think i might have called her a crackhead um but then eminem was rapping about pills she's like you know it's it's honestly you know it's not something that takes over your life you just do it here and there and it's really fun and and then i tried a pill i was like oh my god everyone should do this why doesn't everyone do this the world is a better place it's it's not it just feels like it for a moment and therein lies the issue i think you know there was a period later on then i didn't do drugs for a long time after that um but then you know my 30s things changed and i think the problem is is that i i I had these rules that I never abided by to my point about like some things just being cerebral, being able to talk a good game.

31:05Professor Green: And one of them was to, to enhance, but never to escape. But inevitably when you do things that make you, they all state, right. And there's many things that you can do to alter your state. You can get a good night's sleep. You can eat better food. You can go to the gym. You can drink alcohol. You can smoke a cigarette. You can have a cough. All of these things alter your state. You can do a breathing exercise, which is wild by the way um that's better than any drug i've ever done um but they alter your state and so if there are feelings or there is and for me i'm hyper aware of like internally of things happening in my body and i've been in a lot of pain throughout my life i was born with an issue in my digestive tracts but i think a lot of it is relating to being autistic and adhd and that being unmanaged and well undiagnosed and therefore unmanaged um and there was also a lot that happened really early on in my life that made me really and I understand this now but only through really educating myself by way of reading life experience and being open and therapy um but I'm I'm hyper vigilant and I think when you grow up in an environment where you you have to be but it's not just about when you leave the house it's also at home because there's conflict taking place you know and then like i'm not brought up by my dad or my mom my mom's there more consistently but i've got more of a bond with my dad albeit he's not there and i i woke up with a question on that the other day and i was just like why has this come to me now and i was like was he easier to love because he wasn't around was it a picture i painted of him do you know what i'm saying did that make it easier but all of that falls into this into the same box of i guess trauma if it was you know people call everything trauma nowadays it's not always always traumatic But You've got that stuff And then you take something that Aids you enjoying where you are In that moment But it's also absolving you Momentarily Of all that other stuff And therein lies the problem right You're like oh cool You find your way back to it Because it's getting you away from The significant pain that is already there And I guess it must feel like At the time like Hmm within your body and your mind is an imbalance.

33:23But then when you're, I guess like for your experience of when you take it, it feels like, oh, I'm now balanced out. Do you know what I mean? But then you,

33:32Professor Green: what it does afterwards is like the most, it is the most, and it goes, the gap just starts getting bigger, man. Absolutely. Do you feel like now when you meet artists who are a lot younger than you, that you have, would you, would you ever feel like you want to be the Mike Skinner? To them That he was to you In some ways Because I ask Because someone For someone to say You're hanging around With the wrong crowd That's someone who cares about you And that's someone That can see it Because they've been through it Do you know what I mean Like Going through it Yeah but also I feel like That's always someone who's You know And you know It's interesting Because people say Oh you know In this world In this industry And da da da But like It takes a lot for someone To come out of their Comfort zone To tell you Some advice That can change your life And then you just leave it With that person Because then you don't want To be a person to be like Oh Chill out Mike I'm just trying to Enjoy the vibes bro Why you Do you know what I mean Why you putting a damper on it bro Like I'm young I'm making money I'm successful But then the last thing you want Is to then be that older person I needed him to come back And tell me that When I was actually making money Yeah Where were you then Mike?

34:46Hey bro Then taxes are coming in So like you've also like Entered the documentary space And like you made some really amazing documentaries About like suicide and addiction What pushed you What kind of pushed you Like to kind of make Stuff centred around that Especially in that doc space Because like Docs are Hard I think they look good in a sense of wow i've watched this in an hour and don't know about it three months bro sometimes a year two years and or what you had to go through and also like the people that you meet some people that don't even make it to the finished doc because of like it's like oh look unfortunately we couldn't put that bit in or that person didn't want that bit in or they've changed or they they passed away we we don't know um but what made you kind of put yourself in front of the camera to tell you know these these stories naivety like i wrote read all about it and there was a feeling

35:52Professor Green: around it before it came out but you wouldn't have expected a song about someone's dad's suicide and then what happened afterwards with his widow and said they were selling a story and saying whatnot becoming a number one let alone like a number one for two weeks and the biggest seven solo single of that year it was mad um but it meant that every time i was having a conversation about that song and essentially what i was doing was opening the floor to the conversation around men's mental health and i i didn't do that with any like it wasn't strategic it wasn't considered it was naive but what speaking about that over and over done not in a disingenuous way but it gave me distance between me and what happened and you wouldn't think that to be the case given that it's more prominent because i'm talking about it all the time but it taught me a lesson in that talking about these things gives them less power over you there's still moments when i'll cry my eyes out raw like it will just hit me from the side but it's not as i'm not as unexpected of it nowadays you know i'm saying but i can for the most part and in that situation even at that time sorry i was able to talk about it in a way that i could somewhat disconnect from the suffering that that took place to talk about the song it gave me there was a step between me and the suicide you know i'm saying not my dad's suicide sorry so like i was talking about the song not the suicide if that makes sense but it allowed me to start a conversation so then i did a radio documentary with dr aaron baddick who's now my therapist um he wasn't there he didn't have any bloody room for years um and i really fucking needed it aaron um and with a suicide survivor for radio one and then was approached to uh with the idea of doing a documentary that was meant to be a broader look at why men take their own lives at such a scary rate you know it's still the biggest killer of under 35s and three of all three out four sorry um for lack of a better term successful suicides are male um so it's still a real issue um but it was meant to be a broader look at that and then halfway through i was called into the bbc and they said look the narrative or the thread that makes sense here is you talking about or taking a look at as to why your dad might have taken his own life and i in that moment i got uncomfortable and i your toys come out the pram baby too um and i was like i know it sounds silly but i genuinely i was like i don't want gigs to see me on tv crying i know that's right it's stupid but like it really do you know what i'm saying and then i went to bed and i woke up and i was just like that's that's why it needs to happen because that's the issue no one wants to really show the truth of this yeah um and i made the documentary and it was again it was really kind of like a bit sweet in that like there was such a huge response and all the things that i was worried about i didn't need to worry about because the very people that i was worried about seeing me like that were the people that sent messages of support but not just messages of support messages of like yo i go through this or i go through that all of a sudden everyone's just and it's because there was permission because i've spoken about it now so from they've seen me talk about it they can now talk about it and that's what happens in friendship circles jordan stevens made me aware of this everyone's just waiting for permission you'll sit at a table your powers and you'll talk about the time you've got your heart broken and someone will go oh my god bro i feel like my heart's been broken now and they would have just sat there with that unless someone gave them permission by way of discussing something first and so it the response to it was phenomenal but sadly the response was what it was because so many people suffer you know i mean so that was how i found my way into documentaries and then after that it was i know it takes me a long time to get to the point sometimes i promise you i'll try not answer your questions we got the time don't worry man and then after that i was the question was what are the other social issues that are important to you and that you would want to look into and so we looked at childhood poverty, hidden homeless.

39:55And it was crazy because like, you know, I remember whole families being in bedsits

39:59Professor Green: when I was a kid, friends that I hung out with. That was so long as well. It was so long. But then they would eventually be housed. It's not like that anymore. It ain't like that anymore. And to get out of that situation is, you know, it just, to me, still looks like it's of construct, not coincidence. You know what I'm saying? It's by design. Because I think. if you grow up in Lachlan in the state, it was very normal to have six people in a two bed house. Yeah. That was nearly me. We were six in a three bed. That was very normal to have like, the living room was not a living room. It was someone.

40:33No, my nan slept, my great grandmother slept in it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone was, everyone would normalize that. And it's interesting. I feel like when you grow up and I went to a primary school that had, I guess some kids, you didn't know though until you got older, but you're like, all right, these are living. All right. Like Don't get me wrong They weren't like They weren't like They were old money rich Does that make sense? Like An old money rich Is not What it looks like To To the naked eye It's just until you go to their house And I think I realised that where I'd go to a friend's house And I'm talking like You know Bellington in Peckham?

41:11Yeah of course Yeah yeah yeah I had a friend who lived there And I went to his house They call them play dates now Whatever innit They'd be like Oh I'm gonna go and play at his house And I was like Right So I was like, oh, like, I think we'd gone like, so we'd gone in his house and we've gone. And I was like, oh, who lives downstairs basically, innit? And he's like, no, this is, this is our house. And until I got older, I was like, them man owned the whole house. The whole townhouse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I said, wow, in the 90s. All right. Okay. It makes sense now. But I think it's until like I got older, then I started to realise I'm like, oh, rawr.

41:47I just thought we was all in the same boat Because we went to a school That was round the corner from where I lived But everyone was kind of living You know, different lives Do you not feel like we were still a little bit closer

42:00Professor Green: Yeah, there was though Now it feels like there is Oh no, now the world gap is insane Yeah, it feels like the disparities Like there's an Aesop on Broadway now And I know Broadway was kind of like Albeit E8 was one of the hardest parts of it You know what I'm saying But like rougher, whatever But like It was the first part That was really gentrified Apart from maybe Church Street But that's in 16 Isn't it But like There's an Aesop You're like 40 pound Ham wash Yeah Like What do you do with that As a kid growing up In the flat state Apart from nothing Apart from walk down And go None of this is for me They remind me of shops Where like You know when you were younger And you're like When You wouldn't go into those shops But you're like Oh right I wonder what's in there And it's until you get older And you might make A little money for yourself And it's almost like A bit of trauma Where you're like I feel like I now need to buy Something from that shop Because when I was younger I would walk past it Every day And I never got to Now I feel like This is luxury now Because bro I got Ace up in my house Yeah yeah yeah I like a nice hand wash I'll be honest Silly things we spend money on Bro I can't lie The reason why I got it Is because I was going to these like You know you go to these TV meetings and stuff Yeah Development meetings You go to the bathroom Smells nice What up What up I said what's this stuff in your hands and bearing in mind before that I've only just walked past the shop if I've seen like a Westford I said what's this I said yeah and it's like it's one of those ones where like it's after you it's after you you've gone toilet yeah you're sitting there you go yeah yeah and you talk yeah what the fuck is this I think the way I got introduced to Aesop was you know the poo drops you know about the doo-doo drops yep alright of course I yeah When I knew When I knew You could get drops For the dude I said listen I need to get this I might need to go back And stock up I feel like I feel like I went Through the period Of I need to buy this To then go in Nah Yeah yeah I've done that I did do that But you know It's interesting Like That's the stupid stuff I spend my money I've spent my money On stupid stuff before Going out Nonsense Do you know what I mean Like paying for everyone's meal Yes Because it feels like Feels cool Especially when a man comes with it Okay You man It's alright I'll grab this innit But almost like They're the things I look back And I'm just like I didn't even have to Like I just offered And I was with people That could have paid for their meal It wasn't even like It's different when I've been my friends Because they're my day ones Like But other times You never want someone to feel uncomfortable And you also want to be in those places With the same people That you were with Elsewhere Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Whereas I think now weirdly like I will buy the poo drops because there's a part of me that's like, do you know what?

44:46I do like them. I don't mind buying this 40 pound team because I'll take it on holiday with me or whatever. And I'd rather spend the 40 pound doo-doo drops on a nice little hand wash and go out in the club and be like, let me get five more bottles because the other table got free. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, but then I think like the dock space though is like, It's so intriguing Because I've been fortunate enough To understand the world And how it all works How is it for you As being like A musician first In that space Do you feel like it's harder Because you're like Oh like people know me As a musician Are you going to take me As serious As opposed to You're not someone who's always If they've always been in that space Of like a Investigative journalist Or whatever Do you know what I mean?

45:35Do you know I don't

45:36Professor Green: I never used to believe in imposter syndrome and because I never really those thoughts truthfully never crossed my mind and the films ended up in some wicked spaces the last film that I did for Channel 4 with Swan Films was Grierson nominated and it got a special mention which actually just felt like a kick in the bollocks because we didn't win the award we just got mentioned especially because we were so close to winning the award but we never won it what award show was it? the Grierson Awards and so I'm in all these spaces where I don't really understand I had one of those at Broadcast Awards.

46:09Got a table, everything. Honourable mention. That's it, honourable mention. Come on, man. We're not here for this, man. Give me your one, man. I want to win, man.

46:17Professor Green: No. Oh, bro. But I never really, I never, those thoughts never really crossed my mind. And so to find myself in all of those places and be next to people who, that's their career. It was later, weirdly. I started to feel a little bit more like conscious of everything. And it was super unhelpful because I was second guessing stuff. but there was so much else going on in my life i think that was feeding into the second guessing of everything and like imagine i got to a point where so like virgin when i signed them and i don't say any of this to complain right because genuinely it was one of the most life-changing moments me signing to virgin albeit that was me and two record deals at the same time and it cost me 30p to earn a pound that's another story but um no management out now um but um i got out of that situation and that was fine but then i was with virgin then i was in nri so non-recoupable income so they're taking 82 of recordings i'm paying back 50 of everything spent out of my 18 so i'm still unrecouped but i've paid them over 800 grand in nri which was the 25 of all other earnings now if i was getting that other 75 that's all well and good right but i wasn't because 20 goes to management 10 % goes to agent I've got to pay band catering tour bus lighting production sound hotels um all this stuff right it's but I still made money bro like it's still it's still better than what was going on before but it was tough there was an opportunity for me to take a step back for a second but get out of the deal that I was in and so I did that um was that the the right thing to do i don't know it feels like that begun a period of like i signed to sony and then things weren't great there i lost a few years to some some stuff that went on but like it just got difficult and all of that was going on at a time where i was like wow i'm established how has this happened do you know what i mean and then that's where like that i got into a place sorry that's where i was trying to get to i got to a place of going i don't want to make another read all about it i just want to wrap my ass off but i wrap my ass off on read all about it you know what i'm saying But I was just like, I felt like people felt so, it was so predictable for me to come out with another big hook.

48:30Professor Green: But I like writing big hooks. I like, you know what I'm saying? I'm up on Seal. Did it feel like, because what you're saying really resonates in a sense of like, you're spinning this one plate and you're like, this is the plate that people want in it. This plate is a different plate. I ain't really spun and people like this stuff. But hang on a minute Like This one is wobbling A bit too much man Like This is the one that's Got me here Does that make sense In some ways Weird analogy to use But I only use it In the sense of like I relate to it From a standpoint of like Oh like If I've done TV Then this should be The vehicle So when the show Might not You know And that's part of the business That Okay this is a great show But we're not going to commission it For the next year You're like That's fine That's okay Like I'm okay with that but then when you're like okay cool like well why is that show not if that's doing the numbers it's not i don't really get it then do you know i mean i get the business of it but i don't get your business of it it feels like it's not making sense do you know i mean but then i felt like it wasn't making sense to me at a point and i just sort of and then covid here and i just took a step back and my partner fell pregnant we had um a quite high risk pregnancy that was um sadly her father was taken ill we had our baby fortunately he arrived fine um but then things were fractious between us and you're still stepping out into the public and having to maintain and that's where like you know what i'm saying about i never used to believe in imposter syndrome but now i feel fake because i can't actually i'm so renowned for telling the truth but i don't want to speak to what's actually happening because i can't i'm not coping and then I find my way to doing things to cope which was definitely not coping they were escape decisions but they were harmful they were harmful to me they were harmful to my family they caused rupture they weren't the only thing that caused rupture but I'm not going to sit here and dog anyone else I'm going to sit here and put my hands up to my part and the only thing I ever wanted to be really was guys like an LL Cool J lyric like when he said all I ever wanted was a father all I ever wanted to be was a father to kind of make amends for what my dad did but that's not a reason for being a father bro you know i'm saying that's actually that's selfish because your job as a father is to facilitate the healthy growth and development of what's in front of you hey guys it's giraffe wallow from the comment section listen it's time to stop settling for hair products that just don't work baby with all the prestige brands at sephora upgrading your routine is easy if your hair needs repair they've got the k18 leave-in molecular repair hair mask If you're trying to level up your wash day, the Kerastase Elixir All-Time Hair Oil leaves your hair looking ridiculously shiny without feeling heavy.

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51:59Professor Green: And every time, it's so mad, bro. Like, you think you've dealt with shit, and then you step into another part of life, and you realize you've got to deal with it all over again from a different perspective. And that was where imposter syndrome crept in for me because I'm like, am I a rapper? Am I a documentary maker? Am I a dad? Am I a partner? Am I any good at any of this? I'm like, wow, insecurity. From someone that's just been so tunnel visioned. You know what I'm saying? To my point about not sending a record till I was 28, that took all kinds of confidence I wasn't even aware of having Because I had been called the shy kid And I became that But the truth was I was really confident In what I wanted to do And I knew what I wanted to do And then all of a sudden I didn't And I didn't know how And I'm like There's so many strands To all of this And I don't feel like I've got support anywhere Because I've got no elders to go to I've got no friends That I can go to When I have You know Financial issues Or any So like All of this is happening Like it's all happening at once It's like a pressure But did it also feel like More pressure Because you've essentially got to a place of success where you've been able to get everything you've wanted.

53:11So I guess it's different when - How dare you be unhappy. Yeah, because when you're on the come up and it's like, oh, I've got this going on, but there is some light at the end of the tunnel because you're like, okay, cool. I need to knuckle down because I need to get to this part. You know, the goal might just be like, I need to save up and just get a car or whatever. Whereas I guess it must be different in some ways because you're like, Bruh I've kind of got everything I ever wanted And some I'm able to do the things I love to do But Can I also out loud Say that I'm upset Or I'm depressed Or I'm anxious Or I'm unhappy Because It's hard Coming from a place Where You are in the public eye Because There's going to be someone out there That's just like Bro you're alright bruv Listen I'd swap And you're like I don't think he was.

54:07Professor Green: It's important. Do you know what? It's so, it's all relative, right? So like, and I always say this when someone's like, no, I can't be upset because, you know, it's so-and-so's had it worse or you've had it worse. So I can't, I'm like, no, you can. Because if the worst thing that's ever happened to you is you stepped on that plug, that's, that's pain as you know it. You know what I'm saying? That's terrible analogy. Forgive me. But it's like, that's as bad as you know pain. Yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? It still hurts. So it still hurts. so let's deal with that from that perspective instead of you trying to pass it off as it can't affect because it is affecting you you know i'm saying um it it's so it's you just i'm good at beating myself up as someone said to me once it was probably in therapy like if someone else spoke to you how you talk to yourself what would happen and i was like oh and i really then began to realize that my internal monologue was super negative and i was like well where did that voice come from where did where did you know and you start to unpick all that and it unravels and you realize that it's not even really your voice it's just stuff you've taken on and it's why it's so dangerous i don't i don't really believe in in semantics i think words are really powerful and i should right because that's been my my my medium but like what you know to my point about becoming the shy kid taking that on and being so you know steadfast on when people try and call my son's shy because they're meeting him for the first time and he doesn't want to say hello he's not shy you know it's like you can become those things so i got in trouble a lot when i was a kid because i wouldn't go to school um when i got to school if i ever got in trouble i would laugh or smile and if you told me someone died now i might go oh is it and it's not because i'm happy it's because i'm trying to regulate i never knew this as a kid and none of my teachers did either But it was, you know And I was always tapping And I'd be distracted But I'd get my work done in a second So they couldn't The teachers couldn't get their head around it They're like How can he be so bright So fucking stupid Do you know what I mean Why can't he just put his clothes on And come to school, bro When I tell you Putting my uniform on Was the hardest thing in the world How was How important has therapy been to you Because I go to therapy And therapy Has definitely Been the one thing that's Majorly changed my life For this job as well Yeah Because That's kind of It was almost like Where I was in life And then going to therapy It came right at the best part Of where I needed it Do you know what I mean?

56:38I was like, right I needed this to happen And therapy for me is always something where You know, I like talking about it to people But also being conscious that I don't want to feel like I'm not over preaching it To people and say You gotta go, you gotta go And people are like I hear that bro But Gotta pay the bills man I'd love to sit down With someone for an hour Tell them how I feel But Just don't have that capability It's so hard to access

57:04Professor Green: Way more difficult Than it Massively man You know I've had friends Reach out to me Being like Where did you find Your therapist And I found my therapist By just through Again through Big up Leon McKenzie Yeah man He reached out Well I reached out to him And That's how I have My therapist Now Is that And that's the person that I've been with for just over 10 years now. But what other things have you done to help you? Because I think there's one thing of going to therapy, but I always say therapy starts when you leave the session. Yeah, man. Because it's like. It's like you pass the driving test.

57:37Professor Green: Yeah, it's like. Driving starts when you pass your test. It's like when you go to therapy, you're like, yeah, this is great. And I'm telling you this and I've got it on my mind. And then as soon as it's done, I'm in a car. I'm like, yeah, I need to do the thing now. Like Like Oh right I need to Need to do the thing man But even like with therapy Like Where like I say to my therapist I was like Oh like I can't make that day Can I cancel it Yeah that's fine That's fine But you still get billed for it And then that's when you go Right like Four weird bridges

58:08Four weird bridges You know No no no None of that None of that You might catch one blight But there's never two It's like Right boy that invoice came in quick, right? So they're like, no, all right, cool, man. But I always say therapy starts, but I know you do other stuff. Like, for example, the ice baths. Now, horrible. I, I used to see you like a lot with the ice baths. I'd see you do, I, I never done one until like probably last year. I got myself an ice bath in it. I was going through it. There's one point, probably last year, it was fight or flight for me in it. So I was trying everything in it.

58:43But I tried the ice bath. I say ice. I just done my cold water first. Yeah. Yeah. And one thing I'd say, yeah, is like, bro, it's real.

58:55Professor Green: Bro, I'm only laughing like that. Because, yeah, I know you know it, innit? Bro, that stuff is not a joke. Bro, it's violent. Bro. It's so violent, man. So when I've done it, yeah, because I've read about it and it's talking about how, you know, your body does this and it's great. So I'm thinking of it from like a point of like gym and recovery. Bro, listen, bruv That first one I ever done I said Because I kept thinking of you Because I was I know you properly do You got like the whole proper setup and stuff Yeah, the brass monkey Yeah, yeah, yeah I was like Because me, I had some plastic ting I got from Amazon With some inflatable joint in it And even then I was like It don't matter, bro It needs to an end It was To the point where I was like Yeah How is he doing it?

59:43Because I know you that you probably do in it. But bro, I think for a week, I said, but this is not funny. This is, it was great after a while. Once you're in there, cause they always say, once you give it like a couple seconds and you're in there, then boom, like always get in on an exhale. Yeah. Yeah. I was, I was real stuff, you know, three times. Cause your body goes into a shock. Like a shock.

1:00:10Professor Green: You gasp. And that's the important part of it because your body, this sounds, I mean, why would you want to do this? your body predicts hypothermia. So all the blood is forced to your organs. So what that does, you have involuntary muscles around all of the tiny capillaries that aren't otherwise exercised in your cardiovascular system. So it forces all the blood to your organs, which flushes your limbs first of blood. So that's why it feels like cramp. It's not cramp. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you're not used to using those muscles because you can't flex them. There's no way, you know, it's only cold and heat.

1:00:37Professor Green: Heat dilates and cold constricts. It's why contrast therapy is so good. But whatever you find your way to the cold water for, you're getting all the other benefits you're getting the increase of dopamine norepinephrine noradrenaline and it's happening naturally and it's over a sustained period and cumulatively it's not something that ever loses its benefits like most things you think about most medication you have to start taking more yeah because it starts doing less it's not like that so it will reduce localized inflammation but it is also improving your mental health it's also improving your resilience it's also growing brown fat if you do 11 minutes of it a week not in one and go, don't get in an ice bath for 11 minutes, get hyperthermia and blame me.

1:01:16Professor Green: I'm telling you. Oh yeah, because you're only meant to be there for a couple of minutes. Yeah, and you don't need to do it. So I don't do it as cold as I used to. I got ill last September, October. I think it was a nasty flu, whatever you want to call it. It was horrible. And then for weeks after, I just felt like rubbish. I wear a whoop in it. And so it tells me what's going on. I can't hide from that. And it keeps me honest. And my resting heart rate was still up by like 20 BPM. And I try and get back in the ice bath and I just feel like rubbish for hours afterwards. So I just left it alone for two months.

1:01:43Professor Green: Because when you first do the ice bath, bro, I felt amazing, bro. Like I was like, bro, this is, bro, I've never had more energy. I've been like, because obviously when you first come out, then your body starts to warm up again. And I'll be honest, I think I was cheating because I was doing mine summertime. So like after I come out, like it's sunny outside, the grass is warm and that. You know, boost testosterone if you exercise afterwards. So you should pre-cool exercise. You should do it before exercise because if you do it afterwards, it will blunt muscle growth. It's great if you're doing cardio or you're working out twice a day, but if you're trying to grow muscle, you shouldn't do it within six hours of exercising.

1:02:20Professor Green: So I was always doing it afterwards. But then it would have improved your, but then I think over time, if you're able to get back in the gym the next day versus walking around all stiff, then it's still a benefit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So when you start like where you are now in your career now, and you start looking at things like, you know being in a documentary space or doing more music being you know very vocal um about things like mental health how do you start to like summarize what you know you want to start doing as you get you know older in some ways do you know what I mean yeah like how do you start painting some of that picture in some ways I think so for me I've learned some of the most important lessons by way of being an applied parent and having that time with my kid um one of which was i'm looking at my son having a hard time most people will call that a tantrum and i twigged right there was a moment and and so much can happen in my head in very short time sometimes and i just i joined the dot that i hadn't made sense of made sense of when i finished the documentary um suicide of me i my kind of resolve or the point that i got to my understanding of the difference between someone that will or won't take their own life is or men who will or won't take their own life um is the ability it comes down to the ability to tolerate how you feel at any given time and i didn't realize that i said that understood it cerebrally but didn't integrate it and therefore never learned to sit with my feelings and i learned in that moment looking at my son losing his shit that if i lose my shit what i'm doing is modeling behavior that shows him that his feelings are never going to be tolerable so he's never going to grow up to tolerate his feelings like most men and i went shit i said that all them years ago and i don't know how to sit with my own feelings let alone ones that are prompted by what i'm watching happen i've just been walking around acting them out so i i put a lot of work into really sitting and to start into to make a conscious decision and it has to be conscious at first this is effort to especially to change the habit of literally a lifetime you know being reactive which i've i've been so i started to change that and you know i don't get me wrong i i you things can happen right you get offset your routine gets thrown off you get a few bad nights sleep you're not well you get a bad email and then there's a time when you still react but generally and you know you're saying about the work starts when you leave therapy it does because you know that moment where you're in a situation where you normally respond one way you respond differently you walk away and then you go i didn't have to think about that it happened subconsciously my reaction was not to react in that moment i've reflected or i've left to reflect and then can respond and so how do i move into i guess what i call it authentic adulthood for me is trying to learn more of those lessons and it's quite selfish but it's working on myself because that's the only way that i can improve anything for anyone else and in doing that is how do i because i'll never be someone who preaches far from me to i was nearly a skinny man lyric what is his lyric far from me to give man advice but trust me i won't like that it's but it's that i don't i can't my life's been a mess my life still is a mess in places i'd love to make a documentary on finances because i don't know my head for my ass there was no skills around money management if you've grown up listen if you've got no money to manage so i'd love to make a documentary on on on that actually because there's a lot that isn't taught and again i think it's by design it's of construct it's not by coincidence because it doesn't serve everyone for everyone to know how to achieve certain things and then to be able to manage those things once they've achieved them but really it's working on myself and i'm working at how I can use the work that I'm doing personally to aid others in a way that I have similarly throughout my journey, I guess.

1:06:34Professor Green: And it's only been by way of talking to those things and being honest about them from a place now where I feel like I can be more honest than I ever was because I don't know. Do you ever feel like it's just all a fucking lie? Like everything, like the roads are a lie, TVs are a lie, music's a lie, everyone's running around I feel like either doing what they're told or what they feel they have to but also I feel like the longer you're in this world for which is this this world and I don't mean this world as like entertainment or whatever I mean as in this world actual world and you get older and the things that you were protected from as a child and also as a teenager in your 20s you then be like oh Rah hang on So I thought that was That because of that And then it's like Oh my god All those things that were there To protect you As you get older You start realising Because you See it If that makes sense You see it in the forefront Actually see it You know like Where like sometimes You might have family members And they haven't spoken for years And you always kind of Got protected Through it And it was just like Yeah they don't talk because of that And until you got older And then you realise You're like Oh I'm like one conversation away From being ever speaking to one of my family members ever again.

1:07:47And then I will then pass that same conversation down because it all has to be about protecting, you know, your, your siblings, your, your, your children or whatever it is. So they don't have to worry about, oh, why does that thing happen? And I think it's the same thing, but then like you say, maybe in the music business or maybe in TV. And then as you get into TV and you're like, oh, I see why that happens now uh fair enough do you know what I mean and and I guess it's just having the capabilities to be like okay I'm going to throw myself into the situation or I'm just not and both can benefit me and hinder me at the same time I think and I use that for my experience of someone that got into television when I was like probably 30 and I was like right this is a vibe and Everything else and it's not to say It was like all a lie but you're like Oh okay I understand why This show goes on at 11 and that show Goes on at 8 I understand why This is this might get Cut here and there's something Over there but I think The beautiful thing is Knowing that once You see that because some People don't some people never see it Some people are just like yeah man this is how it is And you're like I never want to be that person Do you know what I mean I'd always want to be the person I'm like They're in lies to say Ignorance is blister Yeah yeah I always want to make sure I know what's going on In some capacity To be like Yeah I know what's going on here That's That is how it is Rather than being blind to it Do you know what I mean I guess Maybe I put it I feel like

1:09:27Professor Green: When I say it's all a lie I'm just like And not even that like Things have been falsified Or unfaithful Any of that I'm just like I've just been doing My whole life Just doing Doing Must do need to do want to do do do do and then you get to a point where you're like all right and you know again to go back to the imposter syndrome thing and it's like who am i am i the rapper am i the dad am i the documentary maker because the rapper and the documentary maker are sometimes at odds because he's a leery little shit but he's a really thoughtful considered person who cries and tells men it's okay to be in their feelings but must remain resilient always an important part but you know what i mean and i'm like 100 % ah i just you start to i think this is the age thing as well though because i wouldn't have needed to consider any of this stuff before but i think it's i think it's a good thing to have that self-awareness because then it allows you to be like okay cool this is what i'm going for and this is what i leave behind yeah and i know why i'm leaving it behind but i know why i'm going for that yeah do You know what I mean?

1:10:32And honestly, bro, it's been such a pleasure to have you on the pod. I feel like we could be chatting here for hours, bro. Like, I don't smoke here, but if I did, we'd be... That's one thing I can't do anymore, you know. I don't smoke, but I was like, hey, man. But honestly, bro, it's been such a pleasure, man, to have you on my pod. Also, like, I grew up watching the stuff, do you know what I mean? Like, so like, it's a bit of a full circle moment in some ways. to like to sit down and properly speak to you rather than what are you saying bro you're alright yeah because I feel that's the only other time I'm able to connect

1:11:08Professor Green: do you know what I mean do you find it mad though that like I don't have many of these conversations in my personal life so like when I got a message about doing a podcast I was like yeah absolutely I'm excited by it but if my brethren texted me and says can we sit down and talk why is that scary I think though there's cameras it's recorded everyone's going to be privy to what we've said but I think that's almost the beauty of it it was like there's always a comfort in speaking to essentially like a stranger. Do you know what I mean? Like there's times I've had conversations with someone on like a bus or whatever and they're telling me, yeah, this is going on.

1:11:39And I start telling them what's going on. I'm like, oh, Rob, boy. I need to call up one of the guys, bro. I'm like, I'll just chat with this guy for 30 minutes. And I know his whole life. But no, man, it's been a proper pleasure to have you on the pod. I feel like, you know, the work that you do, you know, things like mental health is so important. I can't imagine how many, you know, young men you've helped and young women as well to understand like what is going on sometimes in our heads a little bit. Do you know what I mean? Like that is stuff that, you know, as much as we get to, you know, do some cool stuff and whatnot.

1:12:21And, you know, that's like the lasting legacy stuff that makes it all like, Oh do you know what Having a hard day But I guess like When someone must come up to you In the street and say Bro like You don't even know Like but You've saved my life In some ways I think that kind of makes It all worth it And it And it really does Kind of answer the question Of like I am doing But this is what I am doing It for Do you know what I mean So my brother

1:12:51Professor Green: You know what I said About those moments When someone articulates that And that you have the pieces of Yeah That was one of those moments Oh come on bro Come on man But bro, honestly, man, it's been a pleasure And this has been your beginning within the end Thank you very much, my brother God bless you, man God bless you, man Hey, what's up, people? My name is Mo Gilligan I just want to thank you so much for listening and watching my podcast Now, a lot goes into making this podcast As you can imagine I might be the person that's in front of the screen But it's really about the people that are behind the cameras And what I'd really appreciate what you could do for them Is one, give this a like That'll be great Hype it up That would be amazing.

1:13:28But most importantly, if you could subscribe, if you could just hit that little bit just there and subscribe. The reason why that helps is it helps us build a community, what people like, what they want to see more of. And most importantly, it gets these podcasts straight to you. So you don't even have to look for them anymore. And how cool is that? Now, listen, if you do want to watch any other episodes, you can check out this episode down here and this episode just down here. My name is Mo Gilligan. Take care. Peace.

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