Ep 104 - Dizzee Rascal

0:00Summer's supposed to be the easy season. So why are so many people quietly googling a therapist between summer Fridays? Because more daylight doesn't fix the hard stuff. Sometimes it just turns the volume up. Grow does therapy differently. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality, licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow helps you find therapy on your time. The therapist you want takes your insurance on Grow. Grow accepts over 125 insurance plans.

0:37Sessions average$21 with insurance and some pay as little as$0 depending on their plan. Visit growtherapy.com slash ACAST today to get started. That's growtherapy.com slash ACAST. Growtherapy.com slash ACAST. Availability and coverage vary by estate and insurance plan.

1:27Mo Gilligan: NDE and opened the London 2012 Olympics. Widely credited as one of the founding fathers of Grime, it's the one, the only, Dizzy Rascal. Do you remember the first time I met you though? When was that? When Posty'd done the Rated Awards, but it was me and Julie doing it. You performed, do you remember? Rated Awards? Yeah, it was a Rated Awards, but it was like indoors. Remember before it used to be like outside, like... I don't think I've done the Rated Awards. No, you performed at it because you got the honorary award. Oh, you're right. Fucking, I've still got that in my studio. Yeah, right. I forgot all about that.

2:02You know, I feel like the pandemic has like been wiped from my...

2:05Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. You're one of those people. I didn't think I'd ever actually meet, you know. Why? Because I feel like whenever... You don't go out. You're not at events and stuff. You're never there. So I didn't think I'd ever actually... Like I knew we would cross paths. At some point. But you... Like, there's always people that you always see, innit? Yeah. But I never thought I was like Am I ever going to meet Dizzy? Like Is it ever going to happen? So when I did get to meet I was like Hey bro Hey he's there What's good man? He was like Yeah I hear that bro I'm trying to perform innit So Let's keep it brief bro I was like Alright take care man Nah I felt like What's it called though?

2:41I was intrigued by you as well Yeah I was afraid No no no I felt yeah yeah The feeling's definitely neutral No no I think

2:48Mo Gilligan: Whenever I meet musicians And I'm out to perform And you lot have got The in the ear stuff Yeah And the packs And everyone's like Cool you got Bunch of people Stylists Makeup artists And everything And you know what it is With comedians yeah I think people Are quite afraid of us Because we're always On banter innit So I could imagine A lot of musicians Are like Hey you gonna take the piss bruv Like I'm ready to perform No they're afraid of you Because you're from the NAMM That's what I mean

3:16Mo Gilligan: But how did How did Bo Like Because I've read DJ Target's book Grandkids Okay It's one of my favourite books and he mentions you in it and how you used to go to his house. Pester him. Yeah. And how you used to take, I say used to take like you would, that's how you kind of learned to DJ by using the records and then kind of mixing and you knock his door again and stuff. So no, I already had a pair of decks because one thing there's a DJ culture around London, but definitely on my estate with guys that were jungle DJs already. Cause I started off as a jungle DJ when I was a kid. I wanted to be Target innit I wanted to be Chrissy Chris Chrissy Chris I think it was on Kiss But back in the day He was like this kid DJ Yeah That was like Wow there's a kid like that And then we used to DJ At the youth clubs Like the bedroom set up Like Mad people used to come to my yard Everyone obviously storming I was storming's DJ Nasty Crew That's how I ended up around Nasty Crew But even people like Kiz from your hands Like Kiz Somehow ended up At my house Where we were kids Yeah And I was a DJ And then he started Like it's fitting.

4:22So it's random. Like people would be about. And then, so I used to go to Target because he was like my favourite DJ on Rinse.

4:31Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a product of like Rinse FM. I'm a Rinse baby. I listened to the Rinse. I wanted to be on Rinse. Like I listened to Wiley, Double, D-Double, X-Man and all them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rico. Like that's what I aspired to go on and be in it. So that was like my pipeline. so I wanted to be like Target and then eventually somehow I found out that he was that he lived over there like across the road like yeah I found his house it was his nan's house as well yeah but so much people were local to me between between Tower Hamlets and Newham yeah and Hackney yeah it's just it's the circle Bo's in kind of in between them so in that way I was lucky all the stations were kind of all the pirate stations plus all the youth clubs All these things played a part in it.

5:23But yeah, I used to go target. So I used to have sometimes like£12. And like, how much records could I get for£12? And he was just passing me on the records that he didn't need no more because he was getting the exclusives and the dubs, him and Trend and all that.

5:34Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they were making tunes as well. And then one day I went there and he's the one who introduced me to Wiley, obviously the book says that as well, isn't it? Yeah. But obviously Wiley was around Iria, who was like an enigma. He was a myth everyone knew Wiley was. And sometimes you see genius about on his head as well. Genius owned Ritz FM at that time as well. He used to run it. So yeah, one day I went to Target's house and he just gave me like boxes of records. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's when his nan died. I didn't know because I didn't understand, didn't it? He just gave me everything.

6:05I was like, rah. So I went home and he nice me. I remember there was a party where I didn't really have enough records. It was just like a, again, youth club thing. And he came and blessed me. He came and gave me Chopper. He came and gave me that record. like in the middle of my set, like that was like a big thing. Them man, yeah, to me, meant as much as Snoop Dogg or Tupac or Jay-Z meant to me as well. And I credit Jungle and obviously Jungle first, but Garage as well as being so important because of, they were spitting in our accent for a start. Like these, these man sounded like they were from down the road.

6:47Mo Gilligan: Yeah. Like you obviously had to, that kind of style but then you also add Unknown MC who in my head is a super important segue from rap to Garage who kind of people don't lock in on that enough because he came from Hijack which was the UK answer to I don't want to say public enemy but that era at the time and transcended into Garage and that kind of style of MCing I feel like he brought that Yeah Into it And then it was more Exaggerated versions of it I don't know who did Like the DTs or whatever But I credit Jungle MCs And Garage MCs For like Making me Feel like it was normal To rap in my own accents I never So I never rapped Like Americans Even though I was Into American rap Yeah I find that mad interesting Because I think I grew up Listening to Garage And Grime So it was Kind of It was already there Yeah.

7:48Mo Gilligan: If that makes sense. Plus hip hop was there as well. So I had choice of, don't get me wrong. I feel like hip hop, I'd say probably hip hop, R and B was always kind of the, the more popular music being played on the radio. But I also grew up in an era where I was like, Oh, I've got this garage thing to listen to. I got, I'd say jungle, but I was still a little bit too young for jungle. But as much as I remember it, I feel like garage was, was probably there during the time I was growing up. And then when Graham, that's when I was a teenager. So then That's what I I wouldn't say ran with But I'm like Ah Like You know like When you're young And you're a teenager You kind of Also listen to What is also cool As well So if like If everyone's listening to that I'm going to listen to that too Do you know what I mean You also said that like Music Was Was the only option In some ways You was quoted as saying that Why do you think that was But And also Why do you think That area of East London Is so Like And I've said it to a few other people Like Growing up in South We always used I Anyway you would look at East And be like How does everyone know each other man Like It was almost like a jealousy Because Like for example Like South East London And like Let's say like Peckham and Brixton Is so close But it's so different To what's going on in Battersea What's so solid about doing If that makes sense Even though it's still South London Was I felt like East London As much as Like You know Hackney is You know about 15-20 minutes from Bo But at the same time It just felt like Everybody knew Everyone's on the right frequency If that makes sense Yeah Yeah But Bo's next to Hackney So it's like See like Victoria Park Yeah yeah yeah It's Bo and Hackney That's how close it is And then Stratford's next to Hackney Then Bo's next to Stratford Yeah So it's that close It's like a nucleus But South East Is next to us too Yeah yeah yeah So I'm gonna answer all that I'm gonna remember everything you said Yeah yeah yeah But just in my own mental sense Go for it Yeah yeah go for it So Boy in the Corner All that Esky stuff Wiley Everything First of all We all made that in the same Computer Same studio But it was in Bermondsey Ah okay So I started off In Deptford Yeah Remember it's there Yeah Rother High Tunnel Rother Ave Yeah yeah Exactly Rother Ave And then Blackhall Yeah Bunch of people from my area Went St.

10:11Joseph's Academy Like Greencoat So Like I said It's right there anyway It's as close to us as the North London part of Hackney. Because Hackney's east, then you get to one bit, it's North London. So that's to say it takes so much time. There was a lineage. So say like, I don't know the full answer anyway, but say like with the pirate stations, let's say for like Deja for a start. Deja was, everyone's seen the thing with me and Tisha on the Roof here. So that was on top of,

10:48on top of, it was Club EQ at the time. But before EQ was called EQ, it was called Powerhouse, I think. And maybe something before that. Just that spot alone has got a history of music, raving, culture in itself. So, and I think, because a lot of that area, especially a lot of just East, within those three zones, Hackney, Bowtiles, warehouses warehouse parties and just it was all quite derelict so there was it was like I guess a breeding ground an easy place to put on these shubs and put on these raves and put on these like again even with the flats put on the pirate stations so I think that hub was always was always there I think obviously in south you had these stations because obviously we started off in east but but what separated us When I say me Again me Myself Wiley Nasty crew So We Went We basically toured London at first That was the wicked thing About Graham It took me to Other areas I learnt about my city Through that So We went Brixton So On top Was it on top FM That was in Brixton On top On top FM One of the stations So they had their stations Definitely in South London So that's where RA and that was I'm sure it was on top maybe on top was in Sydenham there was definitely a station in Brixton and then oh there was other stuff I think I can't remember what it is I know Delight was in South but I don't go on that Flashback yes Taste all these other stations and then oh let's not even forget the link went with like Garage Essentials so when I came out when I went over the water that's who I went to link first that's who I was around any Remedy and big a younger big nasty who was Eni's cousin.

12:42So he always winds me up to remind me about how I used to come over there. There was a youth club. We used to go, Depth of Youth Club. I used to go there by myself and see that. But he always reminded me of these orange jeans. I think they were orange or these bright blue jeans. He likes to remind me of every time we're there. All right, cool. But I know him from young as well. Again, through the youth clubs and the Pirate Radio. And so we, again, I think we just always had that rich history from, it obviously would have started actually with the jamaican sound systems and the jamaican pirate radio stations which have been running for whatever and jamaican community caribbean community in those areas but obviously south had it too so i don't know what differentiated it even though i went around to south but i even i remember in peckham going to link too nice and going to the like go and cut dubs which is not yeah it was a cutting house in dubs so even though it was East yeah I think that's what I'm getting to I'm trying to put the shit in order as I remember it yeah

13:44Mo Gilligan: you're paying the pincher yeah the it was a London thing very quickly it was always us we're from East obviously but like I said the studio I might have made some of the first ones in East but like I said eventually I was making the studio was in Deptford I had to go there then it was in Bermondsey there was always a link and then North Heat FM so I was over that way and West eventually Northwest we've got there but I'd say the nucleus was East North and Southeast parts of the East so everyone was involved early really it's just the prominent people we remember would have been from East and I think the style of music here I think because we had more pirate stations more established and was willing to kind of accept this new sound that we were doing because again, it came from Deja and Heat FM really and obviously Rince as well who were letting us kind of do that.

14:53We would have been on the Nasty Crew show with the first gram tune. The first gram tune that I'd done was with Storming Armor and Sharky on it and that would have been on MAC-10's set that were the first tunes I would have given to would have been Marcus Nasty and MAC-10 so it started there because I guess they gave it a chance same with the Shubsies it was so underground the garage was so popping like to try and even get a look in Like it would have Again it would have just been Those few people Who run those stations That could have been Like a genius Like a diesel Who would have give you A look in in the first place I think that's why It dominated in East And to an extent Again What you were saying about Felt like everyone in East Knew each other To an extent We kind of did Yeah So like Kano I knew Kano From Flavor FM In Canning Town Before we was in Nasty Crew before anything He was like He's good you know He's a good MC as well He had his own set Whatever time he was on You know what I mean Because you know They used to do it in two hour sets

16:06Mo Gilligan: Yeah yeah of course So that's how I knew him And again through the youth clubs So some of us went to the same schools Yeah Like I went to the same school as Chronic I went to the same school as Target as well We were there at different times So I guess it was like Happened accidentally But also It was just like a mutual But it also sounds like I also feel at that time It was just word of mouth If you were listening to pirate radio You were just like Oh that's that person from that crew That's that person from this crew And because you had to record the tapes And you know You share a tape with your friend And this was also that time Where you're like Hey let me get that tape back though Right Like I need that tape I remember borrowing a tape to someone And going to Cardiff Got a lot of cousins in Cardiff And they used to listen to Oh I can't remember what type of music It's like drum and bass But it's that kind of Really fast one That you hear at Funfaz Like It's like hardcore Yeah yeah yeah yeah But that's the Oh The Amen sample No it's not even That stuff Yeah yeah It's like It's almost like You know when it's got That kind of like Not like donk music Kind of actually Yeah Okay Yeah kind of Kind of a little bit like that And I went up to my cousins And I was like I'm going to really introduce these man to what's going on right and it's so funny because they because what i remember one of my cousin's friends he was really like oh it's all right like yeah i was like yeah but the rest of them were like hey what's this this is yeah and it's interesting though because after that my cousin's friend was just like hey like can i get a copy yeah of that tape and that's why i say it was that kind of word of mouth so i could imagine for yourself growing up at that time Where you're hearing about another MC Was there also pressure?

17:54Mo Gilligan: Yeah, I always wanted to ask you this Because you spoke about Titch there And how you lot clashed And I remember that But also, was there also pressure to be like People telling you You need to clash this person Or like that person said They want to clash you Does that make sense? Like if everyone knew everyone was good Was there like You need to clash Wally was an instigator of a lot of that But there was a competitiveness Just in general Especially when people thought They were rougher than people Yeah So you had that as well So the Titch thing came from Wiley and his brother Already going out Going at it Yeah yeah yeah But me and Dougs were friends Yeah And ironically like I was very tight With Titch's cousin Yeah yeah yeah They're from Bo innit So I grew up with him So when he came out It seemed like a kind of Natural thing For him to go at me innit Like And so just That's what that was But there was There was always this Thing It's like In those days yeah To get Say like I said Say it was a youth club rave Or any kind of rave Like You have the MCs Who are just MCs And then you guys Sometimes the goons Who pull up 30 men But they've got their MC And when these men Get there Yeah Like they're bullying Onto the mic And they're getting across Yeah So that's where And that's like But basically The point I'm making is yeah In those days yeah You had to Really make your mark Okay If you was on the mic You had to like Kind of Make yourself Yeah You couldn't really be too shy Yeah Was it ever a case of you're there And you're not involved But everyone's there And someone just calls you out Does that make sense?

19:26Mo Gilligan: It's a lot of subliminals Yeah, yeah, yeah In those days He's talking about me But everyone's talking about everyone, isn't it? Yeah, I mean I'm not talking directly You're just bigging yourself up I'm the best I'll badge you up I'll fuck your girl I'm the best What you can do about it That's the Basically what everyone's talking about Overall, isn't it? And some people do it With a bit more aggression Like a Tracy Titch I remember when I When I used to do Sunday's show And Napa used to tell me About You know When it came to reloads And he was like Let me tell you something There's one thing about It was clashing But getting those reloads Was like Like Almost like It's weight in gold In some ways What was that like for you When you got your first Ever reload Like Because you're still A teenager as well It got too easy I don't remember It got too easy I don't know Ain't it like You know what's about I was so locked in To what I was doing That When that stuff Started happening If you see my reactions To the reloads Like yeah yeah yeah Is that Do you want to know something though I feel like I was As much gassed about Hearing MCs On my beats That's what I cared about Are you producing as well Yeah yeah yeah yeah So there's a 20th anniversary version of Boy in the Corner came out like last year I think it was last year so we put all those tunes that people a lot of people know but don't know that I made we didn't really have tags at the time producer tags that come a bit later some people might have had them or maybe Da Vinci but I didn't have them but I've got tunes that just go off like I said that people didn't know I'd done but it meant as much to me to hear about on my tunes I cared I don't know if I cared as much about being an MC like I said I started as a DJ it just I just saw the reaction that the MCs were getting I think I just wanted to express myself I just needed to express myself in general summer's supposed to be the easy season so why are so many people quietly googling a therapist between summer Fridays because more daylight doesn't fix the hard stuff sometimes it just turns the volume up Grow does therapy differently Grow connects you with thousands of high quality licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends.

21:52There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow helps you find therapy on your time. The therapist you want takes your insurance on Grow. Grow accepts over 125 insurance plans. Sessions average$21 with insurance, and some pay as little as$0, depending on their plan. Visit growtherapy.com slash ACAST today to get started. That's growtherapy.com slash ACAST. growtherapy.com slash ACAST. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. I think that's what it was.

22:30Mo Gilligan: Was there ever an MC that, like, started spitting on your tune and you was like, had to really hold it in for the excitement? All of them. Yeah, all of them. Like even Titch Yeah The crazy thing We talk about the Titch thing Yeah Everyone like Acts like Even while it was like All that was going on We don't need to We know what we're talking about It's on my tune That's my tune That he was spitting on Like No one mentions that Man I got things in the Yeah The rhythm Even if it's a rejig Or a remix of my tune It's my tune That we're out there Arguing over But yeah So anyway The double A bunch of people There's a bunch of people On that tune especially It's called Ho It's the one that's got Yeah That tune Yeah Like Banging tune Yeah You know what I mean Banging tune Yeah Anyone I really cared about that Like I made those rhythms To get reload For the band of Tafair So I cared much about that Probably more than I cared about Getting a reload Yeah Yeah Yeah So when you make Boy in the Corner right And that album is It's legendary I think like In years to come Like You know When we're When we're speaking about UK music I feel like I can't imagine the amount of people That even probably even have that Just Album cover wise There's so You know when an album It It explains so much But also shows so little Does that make sense?

23:58Mo Gilligan: The name The title The colours The Air Max You went Air Max Night 90s I remember You see as you're saying this yeah I just want to be real I'm like It's like Yeah you know We just needed to I don't know what the fuck Was going on bro Really I'm 18 yeah Yeah They've got Ben Drury A couple other people And that They've got me in this fucking In this room I don't like photo shoots I didn't even want to be I didn't want to be In the fucking Like I didn't want to be seen Remember we're from the era Of people didn't see MCs Yeah yeah yeah We didn't Yeah so I wasn't used to I didn't want to do my own first video So we're going in to do I used to go and do these magazine shoots and sit about and do interviews and shit.

24:41Mo Gilligan: I found like I would mainly see an MC from like a Rewind magazine. That was the first. Yeah, that felt like the hood publication that felt mainstream like where you would see your artists that you might get into you. Yes, exactly. Yeah, those are our first opportunities really like that. So there would have been a few before Pay As You Go was so solid that would have been on because they crossed over more fire and all that. But Rewind was that thing we were still under you know what I mean? yeah, of course. So, yeah, A lot of that stuff for me was just like, okay, I'm just turning up then. Like, I'm just doing a bunch of stuff.

25:12Ah, do, do, like, because obviously they're trying to make the thing interesting. First of all, there was no yellow board. It was like a white, two white things. Oh, really? Yeah, they've done that with graphics afterwards. Oh, okay, okay, okay. Am I giving away too much? So I'm sitting there trying to find loads of different things to sit there and do for this picture. I'm doing everything. And then, like, then I've sat down, yeah, And then I've just, I've done that, yeah. And for some reason that's the one they picked. And I've never lived it down since, bruv. I remember I was sitting down eating some, like some Jamaican food over in East, yeah.

25:48And someone's like, they generally come up to me, like, yo, yo, man, Dizzy, what was that devilish thing about? Or you don't know if it... People really think like, like they'd like, some conspiracy devil. Like the amount of times I've had to explain that for you, I'm tired of explaining it, but I was like, really? I wish they didn't pick that one. I'm tired of asking that, bruv.

26:05Mo Gilligan: Do you find then Because obviously That's why I think With the cover That's I feel like you can frame that Like especially if you know If you got it as a vinyl But do you find This is like Because obviously you know You won a Mercury right You know you won a Mercury award For you a teenager Did you feel at that time There's this side of it That's like You've got this industry side That are like Trying to find the nuances of Oh you know Like he's saying so much I understand that now We're this age Yeah But what was it like at that age I don't know what the fuck They were talking about I don't know How can I I lived I lived on the estate I took the Mercury Home to the To the flats bro Yeah yeah yeah I don't know I don't know What's going on Did you not know What that award was Because I feel like I knew about that award Once you had won it At that time When I was that age I knew about it When Miss Dynamite won it I was in Napa Yes yeah yeah yeah Because she had won it before Yeah Yeah so this She won the Mercury Like she won No I remember she won it I was like I still didn't know What it was But that's the first time I heard about it Okay And obviously I rate Miss Dynamite I rate Miss Dynamite Like I rate Any MC Because I watched her At EQ Buss it up Yeah With the best of them And it wasn't Ah she's a sick MC for a girl No she's That's levels It's when she's on that track It was so solid Why am I watching me She hold her own On anything Mean I have no ting She's the queen She's the queen Cold Cold Cold Cold man You can't fuck with like A live presence Yeah yeah yeah Yeah I got a lot of time Actually if you're watching Hey feel free to jump on This time of mine Feel free And what was that time like for you man Like when Boy in the Corner Blowing up because Like I remember it like it was yesterday It just felt like You looked like you was having The time of your life Did I?

27:59Mo Gilligan: Yeah because bro You're on the Thames On a boat Okay yeah yeah yeah Do you know what I mean? Just being like Like it's seeing stuff That we had never seen I had never seen this before I didn't even know I'm like how did this How is this possible Like what we could Get a boat and go on the Thames You know it's so interesting Every time someone Like not to interrupt you Every time people say this to me Yeah It blows my mind Nah I'm as intrigued About that As you are about When it happened Because I didn't get to experience it Like everyone You know what I'm saying So when I'm hearing it It's like Right yeah What must that have looked like Like, I didn't think of it.

28:34I was like, I was going to work. I was just trying to make that moment. And again, credit to everyone that was around me, my manager, the people directing the field, the label, Excel, all these people that were, I mean, I couldn't have done it myself as a kid, innit? It's easy to take credit. Yeah, man, well, you know, I was just sick, innit? The older you get, the more you're in the industry, the more, especially when you're independent, you're realising how much, how many moving parts there are. like right fucking hell that was going on there was a lot of forward thinking people around me yeah as well you know what I'm saying so even with that that whole thing was like it was I guess it was trolling it was one of the early versions that's because of our generation of this of going viral because what the reason we went on the boat to do that was to to direct Rex's idea to go past David Blaine because David Blaine was in the box remember

29:30Mo Gilligan: yes he was in the box he was in the box So it was the night that he was going to come out of the box Yeah, yeah, yeah And we were supposed to go past and interrupt it and make noise And if you go and watch the video of David Blaine coming out of the box We are there in the background That was the whole point Oh really? Yeah, yeah That's the Easter egg Yeah, yeah, yeah Oh, we're hearted That's what that was about, yeah What was it like though going to things like the Brit Awards and stuff? Because we had seen like, you know, things like So Solid at the Brit Awards before, like, or everyone's dressed up in white.

30:06Mo Gilligan: And, you know, you're, I felt like, for me anyway, seeing you in them spaces was like, oh, rah, like, you know, we've got someone in these spaces doing the music he wants to do. But also you're so, you're so young at the same time. And we weren't winning Brit Awards back then, do you know what I mean? It was even to just Know that we was nominated Was like Oh right Like fingers crossed You know Like One of the mandem Or galdem Can win And bring it home Do you know what I mean But I can't imagine What that must have been like For yourself Being in them spaces Only saying that Because I'm quite privileged enough To be able to host it And When I'm there And I'm hosting it And I'm seeing People who look like me And I'm like What's got It was bollocks Till I won it Let's be real Yeah Who gives a fuck About that shit man I just hated awards anyway Really?

30:56It was all about being in Do you think no Because you were young

30:58Mo Gilligan: At that time though? Because it was shit That's where it was And I was young yeah But so And remember With the Brits yeah They give you The participation Award Categories first Ah Urban award It wasn't until They When I finally won one It was the Best British male Award So it's like Okay I got the big one Oh okay that matters once I won it. And people have won it since though. But before that, yeah. So the awards did, used to do weird stuff. Like I got a joint MOBA award one year. They gave me a joint award. I've never - A joint award? Yeah, with Jameelah. Really? Yeah. So at that point I was like, I don't know.

31:41I've never been given a joint award. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So again, so I just looked at awards. Like I didn't understand the MOBAs when, no the Mercury when it was happening. So I've just never been in front of the awards. now don't get me wrong the awards are all they're all up now innit so don't let me make me think that I don't appreciate and I don't think that I'm just talking that I'm taking you back to where I felt you know what I mean early I definitely appreciate I definitely I definitely let my kids say yeah yeah the kids see the awards and that yeah nah so it's a blessing and that's it now older mature I appreciate all the effort that went into organising these these things and someone again obviously the Brittle Wolves but someone as dedicated as Kanye King and in a way in a way it's sad because it's like I'm finding out more about why she done it and what she had to face yeah and her courage to step up and do it it was before my generation you know what I'm saying so it was already on the telly so not understanding like it's so much that you understand more as an adult you know what I mean than appreciating And respect it So rest in peace to her man

32:52Mo Gilligan: When you started to like You know You make music You make money Because obviously like You started doing Night collaborations and stuff And I think Even for me I was like Bruh They didn't give me no pee for that It was the privilege If you still got Because I've seen a video You posted not so long ago And I swear you go into like Your shed And you've got Bare unreleased Yeah yeah yeah Like Because you're Air Max 90 guy right Yeah yeah yeah yeah Definitely And you were doing collabs Where like I feel like now Collabs are like Everyone's doing it Not everyone gets a collab But do you know what I mean Like There's definitely more I was the first I feel like you was the first Oh I definitely was Yeah yeah yeah The Air Max 90 Is it the And the 180 Yes Yeah yeah yeah Tongue and cheek The tongue and cheek Was the 90 And I did one before It was the 180 Which had the All the The train stations In East London In the In the Seoul Did you ever Did that ever like Make sense to you at that time Because I feel like Growing up at that time All we ever wanted was Do you know what I mean Tracksuits and And what not And you know what I mean Nike fitted hats Looking back at it now Stock jackets Avrocks Yeah but looking back at it now It does make sense Because Everything that you named Like I said We're from the same generation Basically isn't it Yeah So That stuff was I don't know if it was even marketed To us Yeah yeah yeah As blacks, as inner city, whatever you want to call it, the urban community.

34:23But we, we stamped it.

34:26Mo Gilligan: Yeah. And gave it that extra push and made it cultural. Everything that you just named was cultural, nice, cultural, whatever, from Jordans to airwaxes to Harachis. Yeah. To all this stuff, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Academics tracksuits To the Adidas tracksuit Later on With Stormzy The next Connecting Yeah yeah From the Gap drill All this stuff That we set At Avrex's Like come on Yeah yeah So Yeah damn right It's just Yeah You better have Known it Yeah All the way down To Clint's generation Like Clint from Clint 419 Yeah yeah yeah Yes Yeah yeah Exactly So Yeah Yeah yeah Yeah right Yeah Did you go on tour As well with Neptunes Is that right?

35:14So Pharrell and Neptune Brought me on a few times I went on tour With Justin Timberlake

35:18Mo Gilligan: Ah yes Open for Jay-Z And you're doing this In the States as well I took us to the States Yeah Yes I've seen clips of that Yeah All this talk about No What was that like Performing in the States Back then Because this is not The internet generation That we know of now That's why You know what's my idea People missed so much of it So it's obviously It's my personal journey Yeah yeah yeah But it's like It's yours too It's yours too So when you're talking about We finally making Like we got to America Whoa Let me tell you something Let me tell you something We were there Like I took grammar around the world We was there All around the world Australia I've seen some of the clips Of you before Like I'm talking like We're talking like festivals here This ain't like Coachella in 2004 Yeah yeah yeah 2004 bro Yeah I've seen that You know what I mean Like when it was really Some hippie shit Dusty Yeah it's not the Coachella now No no no You've got the Soho house tent Right right Even wireless At home Like I'm 2008 wireless Kings of Leon wireless Yeah early The band them weren't there Foo Fighters Bro I was What's the other one What's the one in Vicky Park I feel like the band them Started going to festivals Yeah Yeah because it wasn't We didn't go to festivals We weren't I think when I used to think of festivals It was really like I used to just think Glastonbury And festivals was just not something We were going to I put us there I put us on the stage Grime Rap whatever you want to call it There's one Is it There's V Festival Reading the Leeds There is Party in the Park Party in the Park I think there used to be Hyde Park And stuff like that Yeah yeah What was it like doing it in the States though?

36:59Mo Gilligan: Especially with Grime as well Do you know what I mean? Bro people are people At that time People are people So when people come in to watch you As long as you give them the energy Like I always did It's the same Like they're just there They're just there to see you Like As like They're part of the culture On an international level Or they just like what you do And they want to come out For a good time You can treat it Some of them come there To chin and stroke Like it's like They're counting your similes And just the way Or there's some people They go yeah Fuck yeah They want to go mad And think Yeah because my Approach at first year Was I'm trying to Ribbity rap And say as much bars To you as possible Look I can Look how I can rap Early Yeah And what changed it Was the Justin Timberlake tour Once I went on that tour And again Boy in the Corner Was already massive I was on my second album By that showtime Which was even more Look I can rap That was my Look I can rap album Yeah yeah yeah 64 bars Yeah But now you're dealing with Whatever 17 ,000 Yeah yeah Screaming girls And everyone's happy you're there Oh it's Dizzy Yeah yeah It's a lot of bars Yeah, yeah, yeah.

38:11Mo Gilligan: They come for a sing song.

38:16And not a lot of movement. I'm in the same spot. Spray it away. Spray it away. You get a bar. You get a bar. It's bare bars for everyone. And as I evolved here, I started moving around the stage more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like the music started getting more, more hooks. Can I get another chorus, please? Yeah, yeah, of course. It evolved until when I got to dance with me bonkers and things like that. That's when we got into that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's when we got into that. We're here. Come on, everybody.

38:41Mo Gilligan: Come on, everybody music. Yeah. Cause when, when you like, when you brought out dance with me with Calvin Harris, cause I knew of Calvin Harris from his art. I think his, his album, was it called? I created disco. Yeah. Sick. Yeah. And it was like, it's kind of electronic, but it was like vibey and stuff. And seeing that collab come together. How did that, how did that conversation start? How does that start with you and him? Summer's supposed to be the easy season. So why are so many people quietly Googling a therapist between summer Fridays? Because more daylight doesn't fix the hard stuff. Sometimes it just turns the volume up.

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40:12I can't remember if the I wrote a beat to the To A Groove Armada beat And that was That's it They run one of the festivals I was talking about a minute ago It was Lovebox

40:26Mo Gilligan: Okay yes yeah yeah So they sent me that and I wrote to it So I wrote the lyrics to Dance With Me to that My manager said This is good But I think you could Get a different beat So that's when I hit up Calvin And I can't remember If I met him first I met him at Radio 1 Big weekend I think it was in Swindon But I can't remember the year But it was the year Where Umbrella was Number one for 100 years Yeah yeah yeah You know what I'm talking about So it was that time So I met him there And I was like Yo man I love your shit You're sick So I discovered him When you did Like when that album come out Was sick I get all the girls I get all the girls Receptible in the 80s And all that And then I think So I said it to him I think he was surprised Didn't he And I think What really pushed it over And made me think Definitely I need to do Something with him He done a tune With the Mitchell Brothers Oh okay They had a song called I wish I could dance Like Michael Jackson Oh yes I know this rap Yeah yeah yeah So that's the first time I heard anyone rap On his beats Okay So they set it They're from East as well They're from Forest Gate They've got the Mitchell Brothers Yeah, so when I heard them do it, I was like, right.

41:34So that's when I needed the beat, I asked him, I hit him up like, yo, have you got something you can? And he sent me that one. As soon as I heard it, I was like, what? Like, I remember writing it, putting the things together. Then my manager at the time and Chrome, they got in the studio and Calvin Harris wrote some other shit. It went between a few people. And then, yeah, we've done a cheap video, invited as many people as I could at that time because they have the budget. I was independent for that album. That was my independent album. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah. And it was number one for a month.

42:05I didn't know. I knew it was good, but I didn't know. And I hadn't done much pop music. I'd done something with Basement Jacks early, like in 2004. But I didn't, that was like a big, I don't want to say gamble, but it kind of was. Because I'd already veered away from grime and just the grime scene in general. I wasn't on Pirate Radio no more. so much of that early stuff was driven by a pirate radio and knowing that was going to go to a Shubs in Caesars or La Fez or just all those death spots you know what I mean? They're not there anymore and who do you think that's because of? Right well you know innit yeah but those were made for that and the Sidewinders and Young Man Standing Bling all those raves yeah so not that I was in No man's land But kind of To make that It was kind of All or nothing My deal was up With XL So I was just Kind of there With the option To like put this tune out

43:10Mo Gilligan: Yeah With no pop Did it feel like Pressure of What you thought People might think As well Because you You've had a wave Of being A young artist When you brought out You know Boy in the corner Yeah And now this is Like a different wave And there is Is there An element of pressure Of like Ah People are going to Think that Like You know I've sold out Or like Am I not I've been told that Yeah No but I mean like Already It's different in this aspect Because it was like To see you make a track like this And the track was a banger Do you know what I mean Like that goes off At weddings to this day To this day Do you know what I mean Yeah But was there an element of pressure Where you're like I'm doing this But It's like You know when you You hit the button And you're like Alright post it Was it Was it that I'm not gonna look at my phone And I've Ah I don't want to see it I don't want to know about it God honest truth bruh Anything I put out Is that Really?

44:08Yeah I don't know But you give me a vibe of like You don't give a shit When it comes to the music I do I do give a shit Like Yeah I want people to like it innit But you kind of just have to go In general I'd like I don't give a shit It gets me in trouble Yeah yeah I don't give a shit in the places Where I'm not supposed to not give a shit Yeah yeah yeah yeah Okay So there's that But as far as the musical What it is I think In music they try and pigeonhole you so much Because I'm supposed to be Graham Some people weren't ready to understand I just like music And I'll try I'll try anything overall Some things work Some things really work I'm big on R &B I was an R &B guy I had Seduction Central I had my tape You never had your R &B tape You know what I mean Yeah But I haven't got a bunch of R &B songs My attempt at that was I Love You Remix I don't know R &B chords I couldn't do that stuff I Love You was meant to be R &B I Love You Remix Yeah that was my attempt at it And then even to the point where Jezebel I wrote that to Foxy Bran Oh really?

45:30Take You Home I wrote it to that To those Yeah with the Not even the instrumental That's how I used to write sometimes If I just liked the beat I could ignore whoever was on it Like Big up Foxy band obviously But I could like

45:39Mo Gilligan: I need to hear that on the original now Yeah someone should just put the vocals on it I did the same with I Love You I wrote it to Is that your Is that your chick That's what I wrote it to I think I've heard that remix before though I think I feel like someone Oh someone's put the lyrics on top of it Yeah yeah yeah It would make sense I feel like I've heard that before Yeah And even Fix Up Luxor I don't think I wrote it To write to that beat Sometimes what was on the tracks I didn't necessarily write it to that piece of music but yeah I've always experiment always try a new thing because I appreciate that someone can make some music and I might not be what I'm into but it doesn't mean I can't try it did that feel like a gamble that paid off massively though yeah because of how long it was number one that was on the news I seen that on the news when it hit number one yeah and it was also it was on the news mainly because you was an independent artist as well.

46:31Mo Gilligan: And I was like, oh, I didn't, I didn't really understand what it meant to be an independent artist at that time. I think it's a lot more popular now and how music's changed. But also back then, there wasn't that many independent artists as well. Especially on a main street. That shit was so big that no one would think of it as, if it would have been Boy in the Corner that got that kind of saying coverage and you saying it's independent, it's like, oh, cool. And it was on a cool independent... Label XL, we got Richard Russell, Ben Beardsworth. But that was a big, like the white stripes on the Prodigy and Adele were on that label and gigs.

47:07Yeah. I mean, nine's later too. But this one was like, nah, this is just like, this is independent. Me and a fucking distributor and about global, worldwide sort of, and then got me, that's when I won the Brit Awards. Ironically. So after all of that, that's when I won it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Performing with, Florence and the Machine Like that Legendary But in front of Jay-Z And like before Jay-Z and Alicia Keys Went on They got to see that Yeah

47:42Mo Gilligan: What reception do you get From those kind of people Because I have this thing Which is I have this kind of Imposter syndrome That I don't know if My peers Not so much know Who I am in the room But there's a part of you I guess for myself Anyway, I'm like, oh, I wonder if this person Has seen my stuff or knows my stuff And I only had this recently when I met Chris Rock and Big Up Tiny Temper Because he done the through ball, he's like, oh Chris, this is Mo, and Chris said to me He was like, hey, what's up, Mo, love to me I've seen some of your specials on Netflix And I was like, oh, right Like, I was oblivious that you lot Knew who I was Is that the same for you in music When you meet like a Jay-Z and Jay-Z's like Hey, like, big fan of your stuff Personally, especially when Chris Rock makes sense because in 2004, he wrote something about, ah, Americans wouldn't know the difference between this one, that one, and Dizzy Rascal.

48:34He knew then. And he also wrote something about, ah, the big mistake Dizzy Rascal made was not sticking to the grand thing and got to be a more of a... So he knew about the thing in 2004. Oh, wow. Same as Chappelle, all these big people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Remember, these are the open-minded people. So they can take some crazy sounding, limey shit from across the pond. Yeah. I mean, that's who was into it then, isn't it? Maybe parts of the hood In New York Yeah yeah In LA or that as well But then Someone like Jay Z Like I said I opened up for him When I done He did Wembley

49:05Mo Gilligan: Yeah So like I was the Fucking I was the Support So I knew that He Like knew Was where I was Because he Even come up to me And give me the nod Like oh man Keep doing what you're doing Like so that That meant a lot He didn't have to say that Yeah yeah yeah Jay Z yeah To me, yeah That's I've modelled so much Of like I don't want to say My mentality Or just Studied him I think he gave us So much Jewels In his music And the way he carried himself So he's always been To me He's the greatest Yeah Because of how he carries himself And even my interactions With him I've learnt so much lessons Yeah, yeah Like of Boundaries as well I'll tell you a few.

49:55So there was one time, see just before that album, yeah? The tongue-in-cheek album. It was a basketball game. And you know, when you looked over, he acknowledged me. So he stopped, like the big man does, he stopped. Like, as in say, you're welcome, you can enter the space. I've come in, I'm like, yo man, again, doing too much. The kid's like, yo man, I've got this new album coming man. Like it's gonna be sick like, and now we're older. Jay-Z's got no business on holiday and bonkers. But I've sent it to him and it's all gone well. All I needed to say was good to see you again big bro. Bless up man.

50:38So I said all that to him like, yeah man, he's gonna go and he's giving me that look like, you know he does pass to ask me that. You know what I mean? And I've taken it to heart. He's like, pardon me, pardon me. But he didn't pardon me, yeah. He just, just say hello, innit. It's all right. Big up, you innit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there was another time I saw him, yeah. Wireless, early wireless with Beyonce. And every time I've seen Beyonce, Beyonce to me, she's the goddess, bruv. Like, I've frozen in front of Beyonce. I saw her in LA once. I randomly ended up on the Destiny's Child video shoot for, what's that song?

51:14Girl, da, da, da, da, da, da. I don't know what it's called. Oh, really? Yeah, I ran, we was in LA and I ran, we ended up, someone thought, I was like, oh yeah, look, they're doing it. So I walked on the set, yeah. And she was there and she looked at me. I looked at her, yeah. She might not have been looking at me, innit? But in my head, she was looking at me, yeah. And I froze. You see when the, it's like, it's like her hair went all wavy. You know what I see? I saw that. And I, you know, I can't. Wow, it's too much. But I saw him again anyway, wireless. And again, Jay-Z was by the side of the stage.

51:47I saw Beyonce was there. You know when she's too She's too long She's too long Look away Can't look at me She's looking again Is she looking again I don't know if she's looking again I thought she was looking I don't think she was looking anyway So then I said to Jay-Z Like yo I was with Risky Rhodes Who's the beat with? I'll tell you Did he have the camera? He had the camera bro Yeah He had the camera And he was then I was like Yo Jay-Jay What's going on about yo Can you give a shout out For Dirty TV And he goes Ha ha ha Don't do that You know the Jay-Z laugh You know Again I have to think about that That I'm older Of course you don't do that Why did you say that?

52:24Mo Gilligan: Yeah yeah Where you are at In your career now Where Like you've got hits You know Especially also like I feel like you've also got Because I know you do a lot of festivals This time of year In the summer as well And Like I've seen the The videos of like When you perform Bonkers as well Yeah That really Really goes off But I feel like What's been able to What's been really cool to watch Is being able to see how Like you've got different generations That are locked into your music Do you know what I mean? Like Dance With Me You play that at a wedding It's a floor filler Do you know what I mean? Bonkers Everyone's dancing to that The younger kids Gen Z's whatever But then you also have an older generation Who grew up like myself And things like Boy In The Corner Do you know what I mean?

53:10Mo Gilligan: Listening like To you and Wiley today You know he's around the corner Where you lot like perform together For me, and I said this to Matt 10, I was like, I didn't think, one, I didn't think it would ever happen. Do you know what I mean? And seeing it, it just looks like you're both really enjoying yourself. Like, it doesn't look like, oh, this will be good for social media. Like, it doesn't feel like that. It feels like if you were there, you got to witness that history. But it was just nice to watch. And even when I listened to it today, you guys have really seemed like you're really enjoying yourself.

53:40Mo Gilligan: And is that where you are in your life now? Where, you know, I see you go, you're into your cars and stuff. You go to the car shows and stuff Are you in a place now In your career Where you're just really starting to like Enjoy the fruits of your labour Musically Yeah Because the shows are popping I said Next Generation I'm doing so much tour I've got a UK tour You've got a new album out as well New album We Want Bass Australian tour Thing tour I'm out here I'm active I'm fucking Doing Up Daddy as well There's my kids out there Yeah man I'm doing loads Like I'm supposed to I can handle the heavy load You see your new album though If anyone who's into running Or this hip workout stuff This album is big for that I swear to you Because I said to you today I'm annoyed I didn't get to go running Because that is the album What's the track The Candy Shop sample you've got That one Yeah hit the spot I like this one still If anyone does all this Peloton running club stuff I feel like But also I could imagine Obviously festival wise Yep It's gonna hit I'm testing the tunes out That's what I think It's gonna hit I've got some mad videos As well You know what yeah I appreciate you Actually fucking listen No I have to listen Man I've fucking Interviewed the country Over the years yeah They don't even care About the music Yeah now I gotta listen man Yeah now they listen It's like yeah Okay yeah You know I've got an album Yeah yeah yeah Tell us about What you did when you was 18 Everything else is shit I'm not interested but nah I'm looking forward to it dropping it's upbeat it's energy and going back to what you was asking me about where I am jokes aside I just still just love it love experimenting just even with that album going in with the new people I was in with White Nerd Big Up Harry as well in the studio over in West London Wendy's House and just going in no conception about what I was going to do hearing the beat and just doing it there and then and again like I said It's dancey I've done obviously I've done some big dance tunes as well But this is more up to date Sound of today Like the kind of Tech housey You like bass as well innit I love bass I'm the bass life Also I say as well If this is for the car community Because I know you're into your cars If you've got one of these Little sitch and saxes With the massive speakers In the background In the back in the boot This is also I feel like For them lot as well Bro the way you're saying This is how I want people To know about the music You say it better than I could as well Appreciate it man That is that for me That's the first thing That was like Cool Hit workout people As I go to a gym And they do the hit workout stuff I like my running So I listen to a lot of like Jungle Like quick fast paced music And stuff But yeah Anyone who's into the car scene And I'm talking like The proper car scene The man got the lights Underneath And all that stuff Do you know what I mean Damn rookie mistake Man's got the real old school Not the old Not the old Not the old Not the old My bad Have you got a Nokia I said no way You got on Nokia, man Oh, you really hit The nostalgia right there Come on, man But listen, man It's an absolute pleasure, bro Thank you, bro To have you on the podcast I swear I'm not saying this To say it because you're on I figured you don't talk For your health No, no, but bro Like you're Like this for me Is a full circle moment I remember listening to you Like on Like talking sidewinder Tapes We could be here For another hour, innit We'll stay again, man I know you got the kids outside But thank you so much For doing this, Dizzy, man And this has been This has been your beginning in middle and end thank you so much my brother God bless you man hey what's up thank you so much for listening to the podcast today now a lot goes in to making each episode I know you hear my voice but there's a team behind the scenes who helped make it and if you did enjoy it I'd really really appreciate if you could show the love to them by giving us five stars and if you also have the time please leave us a review it's always appreciated and we love reading the comments and of course we want to keep making it better thank you for listening and have a great day peace Thank you.