Ep 107 - Chip on 20 Years of Grime, Clashes & Becoming a UK Legend

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0:40So whether you're looking for barely there coverage or full glam, Sephora can help you find your match. Hey, what's up people? My name is Mo Gilligan and right now you're tuned in to my podcast, Beginning, Middle and End. Now my guest this week Who's one of the youngest rappers to ever hit A number one in the UK That's right, from Grime, Pirate Radio And clashes as a teenager To studio sessions with the likes of Chris Brown, T.I., Meek Mill, Kerry Hilson, Movado The list goes on We talk about being famous when you're still in school Becoming a McDonald's Happy Meal toy And how the internet is killing clashes Please welcome a man who cannot run out of bars It's the one and only The UK's finest Shit But no thanks for doing the pod man Yeah naturally Appreciate it man I know we tried to make it happen Before and stuff Yeah yeah yeah So it's great that we was actually Able to make It happen Do you know what I mean Yeah yeah yeah Man's a fan still And no likewise man Yeah It's mad because Every Whenever I'm gonna do the pod I always Try to find The thing That made me discover that person Does that make sense So it might be a film Or TV series Because it's kind of also how I had the idea for the pod Beginning, middle and end If that makes sense, doesn't it?

2:04So I always like to go to people's beginnings Okay, yeah And we're similar ages Where are you born? So I'm 88 Yeah, same kind of window So When I was listening to your freestyle today Which one? Westwood one Yeah, with you and the last kids I was listening to that today And I had listened to it in a while But I was like, bro, like 16 Like, you're 16 Was it 2007? 7, yeah Yeah You're 16 16, 10 and 17, yeah I remember that moment Because I felt like I was in it at the time Which is interesting now Because I feel like for Maybe young people now Watching their favourite content Creator or musician or movie star And if they're of a similar age It can then sometimes make Especially if you do that thing as well Thank you It might make you feel like Oh right I need to I need to be better at what I'm doing man Does that make sense?

3:02Yeah for sure You know what's the matter with that Even when you were saying like I was thinking of like how I first Come across you What happens with me now Yeah Is when I move around People have come across me At different times Yeah yeah yeah yeah In my life You get what I'm saying So like I might meet Like A mum and a daughter And the mum Is Trying to tell her You like You don't understand Like my man's been hard For years But the youth is saying Nah I found him at When he was clashing Bugsy Yeah Like you get what I'm saying And shit like that be happening But It's kind of why Like I got like a A nickname amongst my friends And like Peter Pan Just like forever young But I just think That comes with just like Like being a, having a true passion for like culture and craft.

3:55You know what I mean? I feel like if you really, truly like study to like master craft in music, sport a bit different. But like you can create that like forever type vibe feeling. But yeah, the Westwood is crazy because I remember everything like yesterday. Yeah. So it's mad. We're actually talking about, well, I'm going to be 36 this year. So like 20 years ago, once I licked. Nearly 20 years ago But it's like It feels like 20 months ago I remember Everything I remember the car journey I remember asking Saying like Nah I'm not going first And then me thinking like Nah I'm going first You get me like Alright cool That kind of works out Better for me I remember Why are you telling us Like What it will be like And just make sure you work I just remember So much things That were like Decades or two ago Like Yesterday Doesn't feel like 20 years That's interesting Because I feel like Sometimes you I can sometimes Meet musicians And they can often say like Oh it feels like a blur Because so much has happened Do you know what I mean Your career has Spanned almost We're talking almost Close to three decades now Yeah yeah yeah Do you know what I mean Literally but I feel like I don't know I think part of the gift Is memory Do you know what I mean So I remember things From when I'm like Three Okay Four Yeah yeah Like yesterday So maybe it's just a me thing Do you know what I mean But I remember Nothing Feels So long ago And that's kind of scary In a sense But I guess I was watching something Some podcast the other day Like a clip came up With Lil Wayne It looked like it was in something Like some type of Big Brother Something And you were saying like He said that he got from Drake Like when he goes to a show Now He has like a prompter Like with his lyrics On The screen Yeah And then I was reading the comments I was thinking like Reading the comments Let me see if that's allowed And everyone was like No when you got that many lyrics Like for that Duration of time Like Lil Wayne's been here Similar time Age wise Yeah yeah yeah Do you get what I'm saying Like He was really young He was a teenager Big inspirational man But I was thinking like Yo is that allowed Like He was like Yeah I got it from Drake I was like oh I wonder if I'd be allowed that now Yeah Like you got You got freestyles From when you were a kid But also I guess When you're an adult I'm like right Would I be allowed to have Or would they be like No look see see We knew you were I think you know I think it's the artistry Of like It's like it's still my song I still made it You still love The song Yeah But also If I'm doing it off of memory And I get your favourite line right Then you're going to be like How come you don't know Now I've got a prompt I just want to make sure it's right So I get it I think it's the illusion of music Right You see me I think I have like A section in my notes On my iPhone That has like I don't know Like the first three words Yeah Of like lyrics I know will kill a rave Just the first three words Once I remember The first three words Then the whole thing Comes back But other than that I can't imagine Doing a show Of a prompter still Who knows Who knows I feel like the I have notes There's no rules There's no rules in music Can it You get me But it was It was refreshing For me to see Lil Wayne say that Yeah You get me Because that's someone That lyrically I Used to look up to you You get me Some comics will put the stuff On their hands Have a little glance If I start a tour On I have a piece of paper And it's just a bullet point I can just glance at On the floor Like I know it But also the show is so fresh That I might need a little Where are we in the show Are we in that bit Alright cool Then after probably Let's say 10 shows I don't need it anymore Okay But yeah as a stand up comic I need to know where I'm Yeah yeah yeah Does it like vary Dependent on that audience and stuff Sometimes I feel like What I've found is Sometimes you If I do a show here in London It's home There's so much I can talk about Transport Where's everyone from And stuff The minute you might go Further north Glasgow Or somewhere like that I've found What I've noticed is When I adapt to their culture And I'm like There's this I remember I said this bit in the show where split the audience.

8:16I say, you lot against you lot, we're going to do an old school clash. You lot are going to call them pussy-holes. You lot say suck your mum or whatever, innit? And it used to be a really fun part of the show that I'd done on one of my tours a couple of years ago. And then I said, oh, what's that? Is there a Scottish word? And they were like, I think the word was like fanny balls or something like that. Anyone who's from Scotland, they will understand what I'm saying. I think I'm saying it too English. I'm not too sure in it. And they were like No Fanny balls And I was like Alright cool So when I got to go back And I was like Yeah you lot don't play up here Da da da da da You lot were cool man Fanny balls They were in hysterics Because they're like Oh Gets us As opposed to me Trying to implement What my humour is on to them At the same time But It does definitely vary I feel like Further north They're a bit more They're much warmer London Is like Anywhere in the south as well It can be like Alright come on bro Like I'm on the clock People always say Like London's like A tough crowd I think it is But I think Do you know what it is I feel like London We have so much going on I remember doing a show once There was five big things Happening During that evening And I knew in my audience's head That they knew That those five things Were going on Does that make sense Yeah yeah yeah Because you're thinking You're looking at them like You might be doing a show And everyone's checking The England score or something Yeah Like I've had that I've had that man I remember when we done the special A couple years ago Or like last year Champions League final Mad And this is when Arsenal Was in the semi-final Against PSG Uh huh So I was like I'm conflicted Because I'm like I want us to go there But I can't have a final On the day of my special At that time Because even I'm like I want to know the score Luckily enough Obviously I say lucky We didn't make it But it helped in the sense of For the show You know what I mean But I just think When you're from home There is a pressure On you Which If I bring that question Back to you Was there a pressure On you at 16 To deliver Or was it just like You know what Just go and have fun And do your thing You and Ice Kid And Wiley Was it just like Just do you Because Yeah I would say I felt I always say like There's two ways You can look at pressure And it's either like Pressure bus pipe Or pressure makes diamonds But I've always been like I don't want to do nothing If I'm not good at it Do you get what I'm saying So I think Just the other day I was in my My garage And I've got like a Pile of like my lyric books From when I was a kid Like in order Yeah And I said to my boy Like look Opened it and showed him The first one And he was just like Bro do you know how mad this is That you have all of these I was like Yeah like if you go through You'll find like Big lyrics Like lyrics that became big So I always keep them Sometimes I just like Touch them for memorabilia Even though I don't really Write as much anymore now But the pressure for me was From year nine Couple man was already on telly Do you get what I'm saying?

11:15They was in like foundation cruise And like the grime scene You get me? Like they was already on telly before me They was like making noise before me And I just didn't really know Or see how I was going to get there Like I used to think like Nah man like I'm as good as you guys like If not better But from where I'm at Like North London We never really had Like a Inroads To like It's gonna sound mad But The grime scene Do you get what I'm saying So like If you're growing up In North London Well when I was growing up Like my first Like you see So Solid crew on the TV Big them up naturally You get me They set up presidents So Solid felt like They were just It felt like Watching Americans Yeah If I be honest Yeah no I agree The whips the chains The this the that's It didn't feel like they were Even I knew they were from South Yeah But they were so big They just felt International But that's what I'm saying Like But at a time in life Even to this day Like I'd be in South If I got work to do But That's unfamiliar Waters fam Like It's the complete Opposite end You get me And it's so big as well But obviously like When they're busting I'm like yeah 6 So All my lyrics is just So Solo Crew lyrics That I see on telly Or rap songs that I know XYZ ABC But in North We had like Heartless crew Where If you're from an estate And you got some olders And then some A-Rexes And some mopeds And some Galuana You know that okay Heartless crew are from Your part So it's just like Cheering for your football team You get what I'm saying So big up Mighty Mo Buskin And Fonty Sedway You get me But I'm Transcending out of that The North link To the Grime scene If I be honest Me I was in a crew Called Shoddy Crew Based in MPK and Tottenham But I had like You get me just About 10 There was quite a few of us In the crew You get me But One of the members Was cousins With Rest in peace Scholar From Rough Squad So when we're doing our thing When we're doing our thing on Heat FM Like We're thinking like Yo DJ Limit I'm sure it was We would think like Yo man like Maybe we could get enrolled And then like On Heat FM We ended up getting a set That was like a good time It was like after Roll Deep So they would say like Stay tuned There's some sick kids coming Rare, rare, rare But like The enrolled for Grime To me Was when like Meridian crew members Like Skeptan I'm sure it was Skeptan Jamie Or maybe just Joined Roll Deep So now there's like A bridge link Where like North Grime Is like Working with the East Grime And Frisco clashed Wiley And I am Napa When Wiley's like Wiley But you're in Napa with like The Tottenham and them So You're going We're getting in this way But you're going to do the thing Do you get what I'm saying?

14:20Like these are key little moments That a lot of people may know Some may not know That helped bridge The North London link Into the Grime scene Yeah They're like an older generation to me When I come through I'm bringing that Almost like a I don't want to say a resurgence But like a fresh wave to Graham Like who's the kids Do you get what I'm saying? Because there was a set of people that was like Young a lot to like the Graham scene that was happening at the time Like there was like fire youngers There was aftershock youngers But I was younger than them But I think kind of what separated me was like my work rate I had a CD like a mixtape for sale from young, big up Swaygy put me on.

15:03But the pressure was because man was on TV already, so I wasn't taking that lightly, you get me? So any opportunity that man got, it was like a pressure but a good pressure. It was just like this, I could feel that these are all steps to making everyone know I'm one of the hardest from my generation at MC and the music, you get me? So that day, it didn't feel no different. It kind of felt better because like, hi at radio, sometimes you got to like fix. You might be MCing Through the headphones People don't even know You can use headphones As a mic You might have to Climb on the roof You might have to Hide in a fridge If feds and DTI come But here we are At like BBC There's headphones The mic's dropping down It's got compression And that Nice Man was nice This is one extra Before it was at Portland Yeah yeah yeah Where it is now basically It's the little side one Where you have to go Downstairs Yeah yeah yeah A little side bit Yeah legendary It's a matter What's his name He used to do the security Over there Billy If you're a real old school Remember you'd know One extra They had a security man Called Billy And you just When you're working The circuit You just become Like part of the furniture You get me So I was like Billy He was over there Was it also Did it help a lot At that time Because I felt like Grime had went through Such a wave Where sometimes You could hear someone Before you got to see someone I prefer that time in music That's why I say Like did that help you A lot Because I felt like With you then being on Like you know One extra And freestyling Yeah, when they saw me Yeah, but also when you were like Bro, you sound like a grown man And you're 16 Like, you don't sound like someone who's 16 And that's me listening to it today No, yeah I look back and I do think like I don't know, I think There's a lot of talented young MCs for sure And there's some 16 year olds, 17 year olds coming through now And they got skills, you get me This ain't me sitting on my uncle chair But forget me When I look back at even Ice Kids lyrics Yeah At 16 Both of you yeah Yeah yeah yeah yeah I always I don't play myself down Like I get who I am But I find like solace in Never Trying to give myself too much Always looking at The strengths in Other MCs Because it keeps me hungry Like I feel like the second you're like You're the best It's like Well where'd you go after that then You know what I mean So if I look at Ice Kids lyrics from them times there at 16.

17:31And not just his lyrics, his status. Like, let's be real. Like, why didn't it pick two kids doing nothing? Like, them two, we was warranted. You know what I mean? There was me from North, him from West, Grim from East. You get me? They're the first ones that come to my head of like, we'd really set a precedence in our generation. You get what I'm saying? I was actually doing some serious work As kids Do you get what I'm saying? I had a CD In HMV Loading Do you get what I'm saying? I'm selling CDs in the playground My friends are selling other stuff But We was actually making Serious noise I can't I don't know what everyone's situations were I know Ice Kid had a sister That was in like Big Brothers the group You get me?

18:19But I didn't have no one in my family In music or none of that So it's just like when I look back and think what man was actually doing I remember one time in like year 10 or something or year 9 I went to a show in Scotland my parents don't even know where I am you get what I'm saying and Pharrell was in the crowd mad story you know what I mean but the things man was actually doing constructive things at such a like subtle age I look back and it don't make me think like what are these kids doing today what are these kids doing today because like bro like I was in school in South Tottenham Making things happen fam Like actually Working like a man But was just a kid Yeah yeah And it didn't even feel like that at the time But when I look back now It allows me to give myself grace Like wow like you actually really done Have done And doing A lot of amazing things for 20 odd years That's such a blessing Like that's Something that And I proper truly appreciate it as well I don't think anyone understands Like how much I actually Genuinely feel like So blessed and so humbled that Even to be in this chair now with you Do you get what I'm saying?

19:36It's like The lifespan of a Rapper Artist MC or whatever Isn't supposed to be So long Without naming people I can name people that have Come and gone You know what I'm saying? So to survive the music business as a child and come out on the other side with your hairline and your smile is a blessing. Yeah, yeah. Everything else is just such a great bonus for man, so. Some of those bonuses, though, were things like winning, you know, MOBA awards at such a young age as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, crazy. How did that start to help your career? Because, you know, there's one thing getting, let's say, like a kind of underground buzz.

20:16Yeah. And there's a pressure that probably comes with that. Mm-hmm. but then we both know that, you know, you can be, you get that hood love and it feels great. Yeah. But there's also a part of you that's like, hood love is great, but I'm still. Yeah. I got some goals. Like, yeah. Yeah. I want to, I want to see the world. People start telling you stuff like, oh, you know, when this person performed and yeah, I remember doing standup once and someone saying to me, um, yeah, you know, when you get your own show, you get, get this thing called Ryder. I was like, Ryder, what's that? What's that? So yeah, you can get whatever you want.

20:49I said no way They said yeah If you want a drink The drinks are your dress I never Do you know what's magic? I remember the first time Getting a rider And realising I was like Rah So what you're telling me Before every show And I didn't want nothing I just wanted Haribo Some fruit Yeah I wanted some water And because I was like What water? I was like Yeah it's a pick It's a Fiji water Did you get the Vos? Did you get the Vos? Did you get this Fiji one still? Fiji yeah come on So when it finally got to happen I said this is the thing And knowing it can get better than this I couldn't believe that What was that like for you With some of those bonuses of like You know winning a MOBA at such a young age And now you're in A kind of mainstream sport Do you know what I mean I think Yeah like winning a MOBA I think I felt The one This year More than My first one If I be honest Because the first one Like everything's just Happening so fast I'm like No one's not understanding It's like I remember like My mum plaiting my hair And watching the mobiles And like Beyonce And that's on there You get me And then Two twos now I'm winning one But I'm still in college In Tottenham Do you get what I'm saying So it's like So why are you doing music You're in college Yeah I didn't I kept I kept I went up to college Like by like uni It was just like Nah Was you a celebrity in college?

22:20Yeah I was a celebrity in school Like It was peak Like by the end of Finishing year 11 A lot of my teachers Don't call me Magavi anymore They call me Chip Because it's like MTV might call the school Remember I didn't always have Management and stuff It was just me So like People were trying to get hold of me If they couldn't catch me On like MSN MySpace They would get in touch With my school Oh my gosh Yeah do you get what I'm saying And big up the teachers in Glazemore, they used to actually let us MC. We had a year room. So like lunchtime and surrounding the school is like yard food shops, patty shop, wicked chicken and chip shops, bear things, you get me.

22:59But close enough for you to get out, get your grub, come back and MC like youth club. Like you're the gallums in the year room. Yeah. The pretty johns too, you get me. The man, the man, the man of like, but I was in there from like, yeah, From like year nine I'm in there MCing with the year 11s They wouldn't let everyone in But I was in there You get me Then gradually man Get to year 11 Like yeah bro Serious sets were happening In school So I big up the teachers At Glazemore Because I think they They realised Obviously I was naturally Academic So they wanted me To stay in school But I think they kind of Realised that By towards the end They didn't really Have to be there Yeah You get me So it's so much changed By one summer holiday When I'm starting college And I'm same again Like My miss I can't be here Last lesson car Gotta have a meeting Because Labels are trying to sign me I don't really know what's going on But I gotta be in Kensington But That's fine As long as you make sure You get your coursework done They're proper workative man You get me to give me the freedom That's good man Because I guess I guess they felt like It would look good on The college The school The borough If someone can like Complete their studies and have a career that's like showing a good example in it so yeah life was a bit different looking back but at the time it's it's just happening i'd say one of the perks of like going from like local buzz to i don't know like a mainstream buzz is i've met some of the best people i've met in my life like in my life i cherish these people so dearly i'm i'm hoping intend to keep them in my life forever yeah from my talent taking me to some different environments you know i mean it's like yeah i still got my friends from my estate where like lots of bad things happen and most of us are just kind of like very normalized to like stuff that other people look at like super traumatic you get what i'm saying which is sad but from getting from My area to T4 on the beach Or guy number one at 18 Or whatever I got to meet like People like Pixie Lott and her husband And they're like Some of the best people I've like Ever met In my life bro Like you don't understand Like these people are just So warm So caring So kind And I would have never got to meet people like that Like do you get what I'm saying Like just examples Even big up Rochelle Humes and Marvin Like They're just not like She was in S Club Juniors bro Like I don't That's mad to me Do you get what I'm saying?

25:46Just like really good Caring decent people That don't really have like A vested interest Or like trying to get something from you Just like you can just feel The love and the care And I would have never got to meet people like that If I didn't I guess there's also something that feels relatable Because you've all started really young as well Yeah yeah yeah Facts Facts Facts You all understand like Oh I know what you're going through Yeah So you're kind of You'll gravitate more to that person Yeah and also The only slight difference to man Is I'm coming from Raw Now man definitely told me Put your phone on silent My bad That's right But I'm I'm coming from like A scene That is like Associated with Being like Underground So I have The differentiation Of how people are In both You get me Yeah And this ain't me saying There ain't mainstream bumble holes But it is me saying that I met some of the best people I've met In my whole entire life From Crossing Waters Bridges And stepping out of my comfort zone And being in Different environments With different type of people Not just like ones that I Grew up with From the block I'm just being honest Yeah yeah You get me.

27:10And I cherish all my friends dearly. You get me and people that hold me in high regard dearly. But I just think like, wow, man. Imagine if I never got to meet some of these people. Like, do you get what I'm saying? And like I'm saying, it's not me saying that. I don't know, like global superstars that are like a bit tapped. But I got to meet some of the best people I have met in my life. When you say meeting people as well, at 18. Yeah. What's it like meeting people When you're You know You're gonna sign A record deal And a contract How much of that Do you know And don't you know Because I guess at that age You know You can hear Life changing amounts Of money At an 18 year old Yeah Which You know as you get older And it's hard as well It's hard as well Because it's like In I don't know for other people But in like Rap MCing Like the community Small and it's like Everyone hears how much you get signed for and it's like like I said I'm in college in the hood you know I'm saying like it creates something you know I mean like I'm in first year college with a submariner like it creates something but it's just like in your head I'm working hard in my head I'm working hard I do what I do I'm not bothering no one like but it definitely creates something Living through All of that Now when I look back It's just like Yeah like I might not have The most Normal Idea of what Becoming A young Adolescent Teenager Into a man Looks like I wouldn't change a thing Yeah Do you get what I'm saying It was just I guess we had to like Learn on the fly So like labels and stuff I would say Are they At that point in your life Are they just like Giving you what you want I'll be real Like there was Labels I probably found like Some like Other echelon restaurants Through them first Like they were trying to woo you And it's like Oh can you meet me here And that also made me meet Some good people That I've kept in my life For the duration You get me Yeah But I would say What I would want to say On labels is that like Something I wasn't prepared for was...

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30:23I don't know if it's the same in what you do but I went from like a team of people that I'd speak to like every day, like every single day, morning, night, the old, even when you're not meant to be bothered, they're bothering you. You get me? You see them every day, a press day for me. I remember at Sony when I was a kid, there was a woman called Safia. Now she's like a top head at Spotify. But at Sony, them times there, like social media is not a thing. Like a press day, I'd sit in a room Like this Drunkets And people after people After people Would just come And ask me the same question Questions Over and over And I'd just be like My head would just be rattling But long story short I just remember Safia would always say to me Are you alright Chip?

31:17Do you need anything? Like she would be the person That tries to make my day Go smoother You get what I'm saying? Big up the All the team that was behind All that music At that time God bless you all. I don't, I'm not someone that looks at labels. Oh, don't do this. Don't do that. There's many ways to skin a cat, go and find out and then figure out what works for you. But when you come out of these situations, you kind of never speak to these people ever again, but me, I'm good in it. I'm from like foundations where I've got my people that are going to be in my life forever. But I think there needs to be some kind of, I don't know if it's some kind of like, like mentorship or like what the right technical term is, but there definitely should be something that like helps young people with transitioning from being in a major record deal situation to coming out of one.

32:17Yeah, yeah. And that's mentally, financially, and it's going to sound mad, But emotionally as well Because I've got a very like Resilient mindset Like I like to pride myself like I think I'm a nice guy But if push comes to shove Eventually I'm going to push back Do you get what I'm saying? Because sometimes It'll feel like This is bigger than me And God will make me do it Do you get what I'm saying? But Not everyone's like that Like not everyone has thick skin Not everyone's mentally strong Not everyone's built for No matter what you come at me with I'm just gonna keep going Not everyone's built for If these people are so in your life Then they're just removed How to handle that How to deal with that A lot of people don't actually have like God as an anchor Parents to fall back on A cousin that's gonna say like It's always gonna be alright And I think that That is across the board As you've got to remember I know a lot of talented people They don't just stop at music Like even through sport I know niggas that was at Arsenal From school Yeah And they just treated like Pro clubs from school To An age where Income starts to play A part in your life Through to about 21 22s Wherever it was Your knee went Or a bad attitude Or whatever It just didn't work out That That final bridge Of like Being the Young talented Prospect Into seeing it All the way through And it's always As an adult It's like a window It's so close So close It's just The door is right there It's heartbreaking Yeah It's not like when it happens But I'm going to giggle you But that's because How my body reacts To things sent to Destroy you Like do you get What I'm saying But it's It's gut wrenching fam You get me And I put myself in the minds of those people Do you get what I'm saying?

34:24And I just wish that there was something across all boards Where my brain went to say like young black people But all people man Do you get what I'm saying? Obviously my brain goes to say where I am first Yeah yeah But just like some kind of like care help window Where like people can get the guidance they need On how to like Transition Through that stuff Just in case You don't Go all the way Like Do you get what I mean God that's That's like That's like real pain man I feel like that's also a point Where that can make and break you Not even whether you End up being a footballer But whether you just like Do you know what I'm gonna go and do I'm not a footballer I'm gonna go into coaching Or Suck Bro Working with young people Or whatever Whatever it is fam It's such a You know what it is I feel like It's to be so close to the thing And it doesn't work out So now it just feels like Life in general Pain bro Is just not worth I wouldn't say worth living But It's like There's so much more potential Even to the point Where like Like you had a scholarship You broke into the first 10 years Getting that first big woo woo And now you're just released It's like There has to be someone that comes Or and you ain't invested yet or you go from, I don't know, making 100 grand a year, 200 grand a year to not making that next year.

35:56Like, bro, someone might buy a box. Like, there has to be some kind of in-between reality that allows people to transition, help with transitioning in the directions that life can go when you're looking like You're going to be the prospect of A star in whatever field you're in Yeah I agree To it not possibly working out like that But obviously being a music man My heart firstly goes to the people That seeing it happen to people in music Because it happens a lot man And a lot of people just look past it Like music you drop a good song People say it's good You drop a bad song They'll tell you it's bad Never feel you're above the people Because they'll actually tell you what's going on When I'm not getting hard Or like If I see a comment saying No man this ain't it Chip I don't think like Who are you to tell me?

36:49I think like I can make you write something different next week Yeah yeah Do you get what I'm saying? So It's all hand in hand Point and parcel But I definitely think about The transition part a lot And the people that Never really got to Reach their full potential Hey some people might even look at me like that Yeah But I'm comfortable knowing that if you look at my career over a 20 year span, there's moments with an S and I said, man, as long as I got my smile and my hairline, I'm all right, man. You get what I'm saying? But I do think, just think a lot, man, about everyone. Some of those moments that Oopsie Daisy, there was one of your massive hits.

37:35Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was there a part in that where you're like, wow, This is my chart topping hit Can't talk to me One I'm the name on everybody's tongue But also was there also a part of you That was like oh Because you're saying like You got to listen to the people Was there part of you that wanted to listen To outside voices of like Oh this ain't what he was doing Do you know what I mean? If I be honest At that stage in my career I'm four years in with a pen all together And I had that song so long before it came out Shout out to my boy Parker He made the beat, obviously rest in peace To Lee Riley, he was one of the writers on the record as well But I had that song so long before it came out I think that now that I've gone through my span in music And survived this long People look at me like he's versatile Yeah But if I didn't do stuff like that They wouldn't look at me like that Yeah Do you get what I mean?

38:43And you miss every shot you don't take I look at that song like Revising for an exam and getting an A star Like I hadn't heard of

38:56National Radio If you're from the hood you know Pirate and Choice And it stops there You get me? I remember speaking to Sway And just At this time it's like Where we're figuring how do we get to the next level and I always say it's so easy to like look at people on the pitch and say whatever you think but you ain't on the pitch though you get what I'm saying that there was a time in life where Wrigley's believe it or not a collective of us were the first black boys breaking down mainstream doors like when we're first going festivals when people ain't even heard of festivals we're going with a band we're putting on a because we have the responsibility of yo it might be a rock band before us or after us like we have to present this properly like we have to leave a good impression of young black boys all together yeah rather than like just like yeah man just run my rhythm and i'll just talk over it like do you get what i'm saying like we're from that era like there wasn't a collective of young black boys licking down festivals Before that That we could look at And learn and see I might be wrong But I don't remember seeing It wasn't So solid crew At festivals I remember them having Six shows I've studied the Ali Pali set With Pay As You Go And everyone Like There's things I go back to But Yeah Breaking those mainstream doors I don't remember Like if I For festivals We're talking like Party in the Park Yeah yeah yeah Like wireless Yeah But it was the old wireless Film to Park It's not wireless now Wireless yeah I'll be real I grew up next to there I'd never heard of it Until Yeah yeah yeah They used to do it I think it was Hyde Park There was Hyde Park And Frenzy Park But I'd never heard of it Until I got called to do it When the first time man's going I can't believe this stuff is happening So to say the example At the time BBC Radio 1 Like radio's not pinnacle in I don't want to say it's not pinnacle In people's careers now But as you can see Sometimes radio ends up Playing catch up to artists Because social media and the iPhone is a real thing.

41:05Those days, there was a structure and an order of things of how things go in the process of becoming an artist, bro. And if you listen to Radio 1, which is the station that goes to the whole of England, you're hearing a certain type of music. I don't know about everyone else here, but I've always wanted as much people to be into me as possible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when I'm getting told, All right You can go on that station At like Nighttime And do a freestyle But If you want to get Played continuously On that station You need a song That can work On that station Like No one's putting a gun to my head And telling me to go and make it I've already had this Like I want To be bigger Like I want to make more people Into me So I can make them into What I'm into Yeah yeah So So I could always hear, because obviously I know that I've done so much on the scene, on the circuit of like spitting bars, Graham.

42:10Of course, I knew that someone might say like, yo, but we like you for this. But it doesn't mean you have to stop. Yeah. But just in this moment, a lot of people are liking me for this. and in my own time these people might do their homework about me find my story and get to figure how i got to this point so in the longevity game now obviously like i can tie all things together and if i get called for a certain show i got called um what was it ministry of sound there's there's staff party or something other day and there was like um members something and it was like can we request your pop songs i was like yeah of course so i've done it you get what i'm saying yeah yeah but it's like if i got it's just like if i go to a grime rave i'm not going to perform every girl but i also understand that every girl is probably going to be the song that plays eternally even when i leave this physical realm you know like i weren't raving to No, no, no.

43:15I just know it. You get me? Or, I don't, like these are not my, I know these songs, yeah? And I don't even know why. I probably, I still don't even know music them times. You get me? But I understand all the different angles and areas of music that I want to exist in. If you don't want me to exist in them, I feel your business. But me, I never like to limit myself. I look at it like, don't try pigeonhole an eagle. Like I have so much to offer in terms of music and a microphone. I know what to do and when, but at that time, I truly do understand why my core supporters might've been thinking, what's going on here?

43:56But I also understand that it was all part of my long-term plan and being looked at and received as one of the best and most versatile MCs to ever touch the microphone from Great Britain. So yeah. But as a creative investment, it's definitely lasted the test of time Because you've got now A catalogue of music Yeah Different age groups But also It's like you're saying You're like Oh I can perform this For ministry And I can still Yeah the staff party Called me to do that Yeah yeah yeah And that's what I say as well And also yeah Like while we're on that subject Yeah I think my Like that song gets referenced to The most Because it really worked Like it made me a Happy Meals toy Like you know what I'm saying Like McDonald's Was so close to my block Like the last thing I was ever thought Was I'd be a toy That you get given in a box Like you get what I'm saying But I'm not gonna name names Yeah But if you name A go-to Artist If you're looking at Top 5 UK Top 10 even I'll play you their pop songs But It doesn't even work as well You get what I'm saying Everyone points at the one That really worked But if you go through A list of MCs But I could play you Their attempts At trying something different That didn't really work out That one just really went bingo So it kind of gets held as like A point to as Yo that's like a MC With a pop banger But you get what I'm saying It's like People just say anything man Everyone be acting like We don't really love Michael Jackson Like what did they call him?

45:31The king of what? Pop Right Do you get what I'm saying? Like pop's just short for popular man And the more further we can go like i said some people certain type productions just might not be in their taste bracket but what you eat don't make me shit and who i fuck don't make you bust do you get what i'm saying let everyone be who they want to be and become who they want to become and if they're destined to be a part of hey guys it's drew from the comment section some days my skin just needs a little coverage and other days I want to go full glam. For those everyday moments like running errands or grabbing coffee, I've been loving the Merit Minimalist Stick because it's a foundation and concealer in one that gives me a really natural skin-like finish.

46:19But when I want more coverage, I'm reaching for the Hourglass Vanish Concealer every time. I know I'm not the only one who struggled to find the right foundation or concealer shade, which is why I always shop at Sephora. They have the best brands all in one place with so many shades, coverage options, and finishes plus expert beauty advisors free samples and shade matching tools both online and in store so whether you're looking for barely there coverage or full glam sephora can help you find your match

46:49the longevity scheme of what represents our country under the umbrella of music that's how it was supposed to go but yeah man oopsie daisy i love that song to this day i love that song I think that when that song came out, you hit the nail on the head at a perfect time because MySpace culture, Bebo, MSN was in its vibrancy, but also the smartphone of sending a track on Bluetooth. Yeah. This is when young teenagers were having a mobile phone, play it on the back of the bus, Sony Ericsson. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you was able to have a track, send it to someone else. Bluetooth, infrared. Bluetooth.

47:28Everyone had the track. Like everyone, like I think no one was even calling each other because no one even had credit. But what you would, do you know what I mean? Like we didn't, credit I felt like was a thing. Five day pass, was it? Text pass to 441 or something like that. Yeah, five day pass, but like everyone had a colour screen phone that could play whatever tracks they had. Didn't have a lot of memory, but it was enough to be like, I'll send me that track. You've got that track. Play it at the back of the bus. You play it at break time. I know now they ban phones and stuff, but that was a time when you go school and you're like, got my phone on.

47:59I think my favourite My favourite under the umbrella of pop song That I probably ever made Like my personal favourite Was probably Diamond Rings I remember that when Like things kind of Like Oopsy Daisy had like a trajectory of It's going to go number one Yeah, yeah, yeah Like Chip Diddy Chip We done Completely Independent It went 21 My single before that was Beast It was like in the hundreds or something But that's when we got to understand how the charts work And what we're trying to do here And a few chats with people like Sway And how do I get things like a radio plug These times we're all still completely Always recording, it's fully independent So when Chip Diddy Chip went number 21 That was when

48:50Everything changed You know what I mean? Like labels are knocking, knocking, knocking Because it's just like, bro, your rappers ain't doing that And they got all you lot So it's just like We need to get in on What this kid's doing So we already had Diamond Rings Even the videos And all of that People look at Them songs and videos Like I don't know Maybe they guessed that Like Sony helped me Make the album And they helped me Make an album I walked in with it All the videos Was me and my team That we already had From Chip Diddy Chip To Diamond Rings Even down to Oopsy Daisy It was the same person Who shot The Who Are You video But people just Wouldn't know that Because they would Just assume that Once you're signed The label just does everything but my life's never been like that you get what i'm saying so it's like diamond rings went number six so it was just shaping towards going um number one and then um yeah people was trying to get on the song that were uh prospects to do like big numbers at the time like female singers etc but i guess we just had the buzz and the momentum and saw it all the way through but yeah I learnt a lot I would say Even my process of The level of Talented writers And producers That I've been able To work with Across the board Of all music Is why Because you moved to Atlanta As well right?

50:09Yeah yeah I was with TI You was on TI's name Yeah yeah yeah But some of those collabs During that time Mad Are insane Like Chris Brown You remember on On top of a Chris Brown was before That was before Was that before you moved? Yeah, yeah, yeah That was I was still in England I was just Spending time in America Like recording So Transition album Had Like Chris Brown was on there Trey Songz was on there That's the album That Every Girl was on With Movado Yeah, yeah, yeah Big Art Harmony and Dreddy They produced the album But then from there Obviously I'd open Global I tried I guess that was Like a first time Where It really got to seem I was not the first to have a big American collaboration I'd never say that because I was definitely A young boy listening to I don't think anyone expected that though Yeah I wouldn't say I was the first I would say Facts I was the first to have A top 5 hit As in like a UK US collaboration That's facts but I wasn't the first Rapper to have a UK US collab I remember Bronze and Black And Styles P That song was mad When everything that's right is wrong That song was mad I remember Yeah yeah yeah All of that I'm gonna lead into that I'm just giving the respect And flowers due to people that Showed me that the UK US thing Could happen early I remember Euro Gang And Dipset I thought ma just a little From your son Just a little You know I'm doing fine That song was hard There was a few, right?

51:52So, but yeah So after the song with Chris Brown Trey Songz Kerry Hilson I had done one with Dirty Money Movado That was like The melody angle Is secured Now Coming up as a grime kid Obviously I've always been able to rap But I want to do stuff with the rappers You get me? So the London Boy Free Mixtape That was the one that had like Meat Mills It was TI, Young Jeezy, B.O.B. Like Iggy at the time, me and her signed to TI around the same time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I literally just went on like a bucket list of the things that I want to do in music to be able to one day get to a point where it's just like, you know, I'm 150 million percent confident in what I - Did you live out there in Atlanta as well?

52:44Yeah, yeah, yeah, for a couple of years. What was that like? Different, very different. and very black self-empowering. I think if you want to be like, I've been all over America, but if you want to feel like, everyone's black in Atlanta. Say it loud. Yeah. Everyone is black in Atlanta. I remember one time I was in the lift. I went somewhere with T.I. I can't remember. Was it a video shoot or something? I was in the lift. It was me,

53:09T.I., Nelly. Who else? There was a few people, but Nelly, Mo. Yeah We're coming out the lift He's going to come to me He's like How old are you? I'm like I think I was Like 21 He's like Wait you're from London? I'm like yeah He's like You've been like Number one on the platinum in your country And I'm like Yeah He's like Man If he's like bro You know how hard that is He's like bro He's like you're a nigga from London Here in the lift with me T.I. And I can't remember everyone that was there at the time but it was just a star studded lifting it yeah you get me and he's just like yo that's amazing he's like i didn't have my first hit until i was such and such and such so he's like i don't know what journey you've been on to get here but like well done man and that was like one moment where i remember thinking like rah man everything just happened so fast when i was younger that was one moment i remember thinking like rah man that's kind of true because i'm looking at everything i've done in england and do you know what i mean i remember When I was a kid On my estate And I can't remember who I'd say something Like yeah One day I'm having a song With Chris Brown Everyone just laughed They laughed They laughed shortly after You get what I'm saying But my life has been A constant I picture something And then I see it through Like And With God's grace I'm still managing To Pull off more moments Was there ever a collapse out there That was so close to To happening Or artists That you were like Ah We were in the studio We worked on something And Just due to time frames It didn't work There's probably loads, man.

54:45I've got like thousands of unreleased songs. There's laptops that have gone missing, broken, disappeared, files. Even just the song I just put out with Spice and Idris Elba. I started that song four years ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Four years ago. The first bounce of that song is in 2022, just after lockdown. And I told my producer, nah, I need to go on a grind mission and then come back to this song. Yeah. And the mission you went on. He gets it now. You get me. But at the time, he was probably thinking like, You go to picture stations at 2am. He's probably thinking, why? You get me. But I just feel things.

55:23I know when it's time and I know when it's not time. And I think at this stage of my career, I ain't trying to be running around like no hot new artists. I'm not in that bag. I've been there 20 years. I'm just merciful and appreciate that I still get a handshake for being super talented and that there's still people That want to hear And receive my music man Yeah because If anyone doesn't know You don't run out of bars bro I try You don't bro You don't Like you You'll be clashing someone And you'll tell everyone Tune in at this time And the video That was funny Is done Yeah yeah yeah But that's what I mean That's the years of When I Even when I look now Yeah When I look back I think like Okay cool I know how MCs think innit So if you MC In my direction With a song and a video Precisely replying To whatever I've said In six hours That song and video And if I'll be completely honest That one was The song Dickhead It would have been three hours But my wifi was moving mental Oh yeah I remember yes My wifi was moving dark I remember you had everybody on Twitter Being like alright cool Like we're all tuned in Yeah you're locked yeah We're locked in I remember you saying We're trying to upload it But we're having some problems Yeah it was going It was moving flaky But it was like I think it's like You know those moments in music That just felt like So that you don't know What's going to happen next Like okay what's happening next And I think Now I feel like I don't know I don't know if you started off the whole We're going to do a music video At a petrol station But I do think like Yours was probably One of the most iconic ones Yeah yeah yeah 100 % I get I definitely get Worldwide Recognition For Being the person that Made the petrol station A thing Yeah Yeah yeah That's defo facts I get And you just what Was that just like a We're gonna go there or That we're shelling isn't it Straight gas Did you ask the guy Who works there No no no If I'll be honest They was trying to run Man out of that But I try and Even with like The off license Like I try and Bring things that are like Just normal to like Culture Yeah And I guess it's easier To shoot as well And make it a thing But it's like aesthetically Nice about it As well Does that make sense Yeah yeah yeah It's dark But it's I've been told like I'm not really one to like name all the time But like serious like visionaries And fashion designers and stuff Have had like

58:21Me and the petrol station on their mood board Of when they're like trying to create stuff And yeah some of the people that have actually stopped And come to me and really made me know Wow UK artists, American artists You know what I mean Like yeah like the petrol station thing It's definitely like Yeah yeah A part of Just MC rap Culture now Forever And I think that's amazing Do you know what I mean But when you're replying that quick And I've always wanted to ask this Is it like a I've consumed it Now I get to work Is there like a A time limit Because You're one Recording a song Yeah You're not just being like I've got a mic Yeah yeah yeah Run the track Yeah yeah yeah yeah It's like you make You have a music video And you've recorded the track I think the part that gets people is See with the visuals part Because like I said Everyone can write Yeah But memorising Is also a proper serious part Of being an artist And memorising to the point You can deliver something on camera And confidently Is in these times of like Online clashing Where someone's skirt might get pulled You get what I'm saying Because it's like

59:42You're forcing the other person To think how Because no matter what They got right after They have to think how Did you do that That fast And that's what I mean That's why I don't know The internet kind of like Stops people boxing At their weight class Metaphorically speaking About bars But between us Because it's different From my old school clash Yeah yeah yeah You said it You said it Yeah yeah yeah And I guess also Sorry to interrupt Sure There's a part of the The wheel up culture Yeah yeah yeah You don't really get that Yeah yeah yeah Do you know what I mean It's like oh I've said that Hey pull up that That's like in person You get me But I'm from that era Yeah Like I've done my 10 ,000 hours Across pirate radio I made my name In my borough For emceeing And being able to clash I wasn't allowed in a crew I had to clash To get in You know what I'm saying People I'm from the sport and the time where that was a thing.

1:00:39I don't want to say it's not a thing anymore. Competition is always going to be a thing. I would say today when I look around, the internet, this tracking, this tracks clashing ETC, I'll openly say it's nothing I want to be a part of, genuinely. I know people want that from me more than I want to be that myself because it's changed. It's not about art form anymore Like deep down We all know who's better than who Like if I'm not the kind of person I will ever wake up And just diss someone For no reason Let alone anyone Who's ever helped me Like guys are different bro It's like It's not about who's better It's like It's like some weird Trying to Character assassination type Bad energy type where it's just like, bro, if you was that good, you'd just be so much further.

1:01:39Do you know what I mean? It's not about the sport or the craft so much anymore. Like people be saying like things and then someone will be like, we'll read, I don't know, 50 laws of power and be like, there's no rules in war. But it's just like, bro, shame is free and have some decorum. Like I'm not playing that game you are playing. It's like, bro, man's a big man. Like there's so much things I'd rather be doing in music than clashing. Especially me. Like, I think I've done enough guys. Like, do you know what I mean? Like you'll go petrol station. Now have a jolly up. Like I've had to deal with six at once, once before.

1:02:19Like I've, I've, I've proved that I can do that. I think there'll be more joy in seeing people who haven't proved that they can do that, doing that. but then again like if you want to show you're one of the strongest in the class go for the person who's the strongest in the class and it's i do get it but i will openly say like the way the direction that i'm seeing not even just in the uk worldwide i don't really want no part of that man that's not about that's not about sport it's not about who's the better mc that's some other stuff because in reality like between us mcs that we know who's got it like that and we know who's ain't so we gotta skip the foolishness and as you kind of get older now like you're saying you're a big man now and you're still releasing music you've got yeah yeah yeah H spices on there it just oh well on the EP coming yeah yeah yeah yeah and um what do you kind of turn your attentions into now where of course music is your love and your joy you know you've got Like you're saying Notepads from when you first started You know I know Away from music You're a big Arsenal fan As well Do you know what I mean?

1:03:34But We've had a good summer boy Yeah yeah yeah Let's just bounce on that Can you get me? Let's just bounce on that one Yeah for sure But what do you kind of like Turn your attentions to? Because there's a whole There's 16 year olds now Yeah yeah yeah Who are getting into music Yeah And You know what I mean? You are their blueprint My friend And my good friend, Vas, big him up. My Christian brother said to me, Chip, you know, like, I know sometimes, like, when you haven't been on it, and then, like, we're always like, right, but you're so good. Like, be on it. He said to me, you know, if I was you, when I would stop?

1:04:12Like, when I'd actually say, like, no, I'm going to allow it and go for something else now. He said, if I was you and I saw a 16 year old do anything as frightening and impactful as your Westwood Freestyle as a kid. And as groundbreaking as When you walked on water with Chris Brown At that time And have a song That Like whatever your original heritage is Whether you're Caribbean, African You know what I'm saying That connects from your country to your home country Like say every girl At those ages I'll allow it then And I thought Nah that's cheating man That's cheating Because like I say I feel like as technology improves Craftsmanship dips a bit So I don't look at no 16 year old like I've had this chat with Wiley A couple times When he'd be showing me About kids and stuff And he'd be like Yeah but you and I As kids weren't normal Do you get what I mean?

1:05:27Because I want to see The good in everything And I always try and encourage The youngers and the young jeez and that but when i genuinely look back or even like you you can tell me if i'm if i'm lying i'm flying then like have you seen something like that from 16 year old since like 16 bro like live kids you get what i mean but i get what he was saying but me genuinely like i was telling you before like like joy for me in life like more comes from like things not so much to do with music anymore there was a time where it's like i think tough most my bucket list by 21 i'd be so real that now joy comes from like having a better relationship with my mom i had a full-fledged career without like the best relationship with my mom i still struggle to like forgive myself for that part and time in life you get what i'm saying uh going football like rather just being free like Like, just even at a time in life, it's going to sound mad, but I couldn't just go Westford.

1:06:36I got called to open it. You get what I'm saying? Like, I'm not looking for no sob story, but I definitely. You can't just drop that. Sorry. Now, Big Bang Ting, you can go and watch it. Do you get what I'm saying? Like, yo, like I definitely missed a chunk of where my friends and peers were getting to do certain things. And I had to approach life and stuff a bit different. I wouldn't change a thing, but I get more joy these days out of like doing things that are like, it's my normal fam. Like going for a walk. Like it probably sounds mad But like I could have two shows in Dubai And someone could be thinking That's going for a walk Could be thinking I just want to go and do two shows in Dubai But you don't know the guy doing two shows in Dubai Just wants to go for a walk Mad But balance God is my nucleus That ain't too bad You know what I'm saying But I do look forward to seeing what the future holds Even for me Cause it's just like You get five years in music Nice one You get ten Yeah man You get fifteen Praise God You get twenty It's clearly In you Not on you Do you know what I mean So I look forward to seeing What I do In the future And next With God's grace You get me But yeah It's been a mad road fam Hey Chip It's been a pleasure To have you on the podcast My guy Respect man And a pleasure to be here It's been a pleasure To have you on Because I see that You know Obviously I check out All your stuff But that's get you done With every girl That was crazy stuff That was crazy stuff That was numbers man I appreciate you my guy Because it's Because it's a I think it was a You see me I get weird ideas In it And I always know The track Where I'm like I know the song And then my mate Ricardo He's a DJ He's a one touch I was like bro Like Just get that track And put this track I've got the idea And I'll film it And then boom But yeah That one done numbers bruv Yeah yeah Sick It's a pleasure to have you on the podcast No I appreciate it man I appreciate it I look forward to watching it And chilling out You know what I mean This has been your beginning Middle and end Thank you very much My guy Big up man Yeah God bless you bruv Really really appreciate you coming down Hey what's up people My name is Mo Gilligan I just want to thank you so much For listening And watching my podcast Now a lot goes into making This podcast As you can imagine I might be the person That's in front of the screen But it's really about the people that are behind the cameras and what I'd really appreciate what you could do for them is one give this a like that'll be great hype it up that'll be amazing but most importantly if you could subscribe if you could just hit that little bit just there and subscribe um the reason why that helps is it helps us build a community what people like what they want to see more of and most importantly it gets these podcasts straight to you so you don't even have to look for them anymore and how cool is that now listen if you do want to watch any other episodes you You can check out this episode down here and this episode just down here.

1:09:50My name is Drew Moe Gilligan. Take care. Peace.

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