Ep 108 - Fatiha El-Ghorri on Taskmaster, Divorce & Accidentally Becoming a Comedian

0:00Mo Gilligan: A beautifully designed Squarespace website is the difference between thinking about photography school and selling your portraits online. It's the difference between giving away those cookies you just made for free and running your cookie empire. A beautifully designed Squarespace website is the difference between having a movie reviewing hobby and a movie reviewing career. Squarespace, because no matter what you're into, a website makes it real. Use offer code THE DIFFERENCE for 30 % off every plan. Terms and conditions apply. Hey, what's up, people? My name is Mo Gilligan. And right now, you are listening to my podcast, Beginning, Middle and End.

0:39Mo Gilligan: Now, what a treat of a guest I have for you lovely people today. She clicked on a pop-up ad for a comedy course and then went on to become the breakout star of the hit TV show, Taskmaster. We talk about doing pub gigs as a Muslim woman, her debut UK tour, which is titled Cockney Stacking Doll. And we also speak about her up and coming novel, which is titled The Peaks of My Hijab. But word of warning, if you ever see her, don't give her any comedy advice. Listen, welcome to the Beginning, Middle and End podcast. It's Fatia Elboy. Doing all right though, isn't it? Bruv, I'm so busy. Come on, come on, come on.

1:24It's a lot. I'm grateful, but it's a lot, isn't it? You know what is that?

1:31it is a lot I'm like busy that busy you know how

1:36Mo Gilligan: I knew you're doing well because I heard your I heard your code switch voice yeah is it alright can I put my water down please

1:46Mo Gilligan: I said you mean it's some different rooms you know morning you alright yeah yeah get a coffee is that alright yeah yeah thanks a lot thanks a lot fucking I'm hot in here you know bruv well thanks for doing the pod man no thanks I appreciate you man you're one of my favourite comics you know say that again you're one of my favourite comics oh thank you I swear to you you're so funny I find you so funny you know you're the best so anytime I can get you on a show or anything always make sure so I appreciate you doing the pod do you remember that time I did your show in Shoreditch and that woman was recording my whole set on Snapchat and I blasted her and then it what show was that do you remember it was in Shoreditch it was in one of those basements downstairs yeah this was years ago really this was ages yeah and then the woman was recording us and I was blasting and I could hear my voice back when I was blasting I'm like what is going on?

2:34Yeah Then I come out and you were like oh dickhead she had Snapchat on I was like oh Oh shit

2:38Mo Gilligan: that's when I used to do the cracking up comedy shows Yes In Shoreditch downstairs at Ace Hotel Yes Rated I don't know if that's still there that room I know I think it's I don't know what to use it for it might be like a bar or something now Yeah But yeah Oh rar It was good man it was a good gig Yeah yeah yeah But yeah, people just don't know how to behave at gigs, innit? Yeah. Are you from East? Yes. I'm from Hackney and Bethnal Green. Oh, is it? Born and raised in Hackney and then crossed over into Bethnal Green when I was about 12, 13. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And been there since. Oh, is it? You're still there now?

3:16Yeah. But people are like, oh my God, Bethnal Green is so nice. I'm like, I live in the hood part of it. I live in the hood.

3:22Mo Gilligan: Away from the high street. Yeah. You know what I like about East London, yeah? is that I didn't know this until I started like properly going around East London where someone would be like oh yeah like you just want to go like honestly Hoxton's great on a summer's day go to the park one time I parked up and I was like oh there's some states here boy and then there must be about 14 guys walked past and they was like I was trying to park a car and I just got a car innit and they're like right boy my man's really trying to power a little part the thing innit so I'm like and then they've clocked me hey man like more yeah hey what are you saying bro I was like yeah this is so everyone that's one thing I like about East it's like as much as you might have the little bakery yeah take a left there's a steak right there you know oh I've got a lot of time man but you've got a lot of brothers and sisters isn't it I do I've got there's there's um 12 of us no there's 13 of us I've got 12 siblings but all together with me it's 13 easy it's a lot I'm like where are you in that are you one of the oldest or are you middle no I'm the one of the youngest I'm the 12th one.

4:25Is it?

4:27Mo Gilligan: So they're a lot older than you? Yes, a lot. I've got nieces and nephews older than me. Is it?

4:38Because my mum and dad, so my dad was married before my mum and he had eight kids. Yeah. And then his wife sadly passed away. And my mum was married before my dad and she had three kids. Yeah. And she got divorced.

4:50Mo Gilligan: I see. Okay. Got together. They came to the UK, London Yeah And then they had me and my sister Yeah So there's age gaps between us Oh, okay Stuff like that, so yeah So what's the age gap between you and your sister? Is it far? No, it's just three years Oh, okay, okay With the little ones So family gatherings must have been a vibe, no? Let me tell you They must, I feel like they were Family gatherings are like a business It's like a business Yeah, yeah, yeah Some of us have to go from like 10 to 12 Yeah Then like another three will go from like 11 to 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah No, the other ones will go from like two to five.

5:25Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't find anywhere to sit.

5:28Mo Gilligan: Yeah, because it's mad. I don't, I have a big family, but not like immediate big. Does that make sense? Yes. So it's until like everyone's at one function, barbecue, you're like, right, there's a lot of us. But like the main members are not even here. Do you know what I mean? You know, in every family gathering, you've got the main core members. Like, yeah, you always bring a bit of money, like a bit of food. like and they're not even here with their tribe as well yes ah what was it that made you get into stand-up was it like something you've always liked was it just like look done it's the force I just want to get on stage and just not even talk about it but just like go in a different direction do you know I mean because most people will start being like oh I was young and I watched Yves Chappelle and do you know I mean like what was it for you so for me it was a bit of a coincidence i don't know you know like we in islam we say if something's meant for you it'll never miss you yeah so i was just like i remember after my second divorce i was looking for like a walking group around my area because i'm a 95 year old woman walking group that is a that's a that's a real group there you know can't be late so i was looking for that and i was you know do you remember in the olden days we used to go online and pop-ups would come up yeah so i was on that on the web on the internet looking for a walking group and then a pop-up came up and it said try stand-up comedy and that is it really yeah man i tried it what was it when you said you tried it what was it you do like a course you went straight to the stage which one i did a course but the course because people a course can't make you funny you either are or you ain't the course teaches you like confidence it gives you networking because you meet other comedians, gives you stage time.

7:12It teaches you how the circuit works and stuff like that. A couple of like joke writing techniques and stuff like that. And then, and then, yeah. And then at the end of it, you get to perform in front of an audience. They get you an audience. And I remember shitting myself thinking, I had my paper up there and everything. I was like, it was really tough, but I just, I liked it. I don't know what it was. I liked the like, you know, we're all in there together. like when we're even when we're doing like your shows everyone's nervous because you want to do well yeah yeah yeah yeah of course 100 only we know what that feels like do you know what i mean and then you know like the nervous poos the burping yeah all that shit no one toilet yeah

7:51Mo Gilligan: yeah all that stuff where you'd be like why do i need to go toilet now of all times and you're like oh i gotta go this is nerves there's nerves yeah and all that and you know like you're all in it together you know i might go out and then you might come out after me and i go oh mo there's a guy on in the second row oh yeah yeah what his name's this i just spoke to him a bit he's he's up for a laugh if you want to do crowd work you know all that kind of yeah it's proper team and start and only you know what's going on the people in that room at the time and other comedians will understand how you're feeling and yeah yeah yeah and i and i like that i like that sense of community and i just kept on doing it you know what you say it's interesting what you say about team there with like stand up because feel like that might have only happened recently i feel like back in the day it was like you was on a lineup you know i've got the ethnic minority booking today boy like all right but it's you know what's really interesting about that i feel like when i would be on a lineup and i'd be like all right cool predominantly white audience and i'm the only black guy here i used to actually just go into it and i was just like i've literally got nothing to lose yeah and sometimes it'll work in my favor because i feel like for the audience they'd see something that there was a bit different for them.

9:07Mo Gilligan: Do you know what I mean? If I'm all the way out in, I don't know, Slough, and they're like, oh, I like this guy. He's cool, man. He's got some different stuff to talk about. Do you know what I mean? And I think sometimes a perception might be like, oh, it must have been terrible doing those gigs. And you're like, nah, bro. They used to love me when I'd be like, yeah, man. So like, you know what I mean? My dad's a Rastafarian. Rastafarian. It used to really work in my favour in some ways. Do you know what I mean? How was it for you? like so sometimes it would be like that people would be interested and then other times i guess and then because you've got the privilege of being a man so this is another you know yeah a woman that already like our women are not funny yeah yeah yeah all that kind of stuff yeah yeah i remember once going to on stage and before i even got to the mic yeah this geezer was like get your tits out and i'll turn and i switched and i said to him is that what your mom says is that what your mum is that why you say to other people like in public and I didn't even do comedy I just did 20 minutes of cussing him and his mum but people loved it you know like so you get all that you get oh what's she doing here like what's the woman in a hijab you know being a woman being ethnic all that so they come in so hard so I have to be this is why I have to be a bit tough on stage but don't get me wrong I don't take any shit I'm tough in real life as well I'll punch you in your fucking face I believe that I believed it when you, I was like, you're not you.

10:31You're not you. Not you. But, you know, so I have to be tough. Otherwise, because you have to command the stage. You have to have, you know, you're there to perform. I'm there to deliver something to you. You have to, and I need you to listen.

10:46Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, you know, because this is what people don't realise, I think. I don't know if you'd agree with this, but you know, like, for example, crowd work, you have to be careful, man, because they can fuck you. Oh, bro, listen, yeah, like, listen, Sometimes when it comes to like crowd work, you have to be in a place where you're like, I know even if this goes left, I can still make it go right. Do you know what I mean? Yes. Because very quickly, you got to remember, we see the crowd work clips online where you're like, it's a finished article. Yes. But we've been in the room where it's not always worked like that.

11:18Mo Gilligan: And we're at the back like, crap, man. It's not, it's not banging, man. Or like I've seen people like Trying to get at people. And then afterwards, I'd be like, what's going on, man? It's like, yeah, that guy's outside for me. And I'm waiting. People don't know this happens. Listen, I've only been threatened once. And that was when I'd done crowd work. And it was like a joke which wasn't even really aimed at him. And I said something like, listen, I'm not one of these comics that are going to cuss you or anything. Like, let's say, for example, I'm like, what's your name? And I went to this woman.

11:50Mo Gilligan: Let's say your name is Clarissa. And I go, no, it's not. It's Chlamydia. That was the joke To say I'm not gonna do that So that's what I've done Isn't it Everyone laughs Cool The gig was finished The guy paid me And I could see this guy Just looking at me And I was like Why is this guy Still looking at me Anyway it's done I've done the show Probably two weeks later I finished And it was like a You go through a door It's a bit of a You know like a corridor And another door When you get into the gig So I've walked in He's come in So we're just in The confined space He's like Oh what's up man Yeah he was at the gig Two weeks ago So I'm like Who's this guy And he's like Yeah he says something to my fiancee.

12:25Mo Gilligan: And I was like, fiancee? I said, what did I say? He says, something about like, something like kind of chlamydia thing, innit? I said, no, no, no. And he goes, no, no, no. I'm not hearing all that, innit? Hear what I'm saying? If you ever say that again, I'm going to smash you in your face. And I was like, all right, man. And then he was like, no, don't get me wrong. I like what you're doing, innit? Sit, sit, sit. I don't want to run with those jokes still, innit? But yeah, have a good gig, innit? Oh my God. I've never felt my heart beat because I was like, there's nowhere to run. There's nowhere to go.

12:59Mo Gilligan: We're confined by two doors. I'm like, this is it. But yeah, I think people don't realize that when it comes to crowd work, but also I feel like one, when you're, you're a standup, you got to come on the stage. And if there's one thing you are brilliant at doing, you come on that stage. I think that's why I like watching you so much because you, you go on and you want, it's like you don't take no shit yeah but you have a really like nice unique way of like all right are we on board with what's what's happening here yeah yeah you lot know what's going on yeah all right well listen up like and i think i really i really like seeing that from a comic do you know i mean i get what you're saying when you say you have to be tough but you have a really good way of like it's very endearing do you know i mean because some comics can do that and you're like oh oh all right very comfortable but you you have a way of making it very like endearing you know i mean like it's a really really nice quality that you've got what was your first gig like though after you've done the course and like wow you're on the circuit i can't remember but probably lots of i can't remember i can only remember the one in the course i can't remember ones after that but they lots of nerves really nervous um and i find that i don't know if you find this as well because you're different you have to address that like you can't yeah yeah you know because people are like are you a character act i'm like are you on fucking drugs of all the characters i'm gonna dress like this yeah are you crazy

14:35honestly muslim hijabi women are the second target group in the whole country really you think i'm gonna fucking dress like them and like pretend like no yeah yeah so um you you always yeah you're you're you have to explain that if you don't explain that they're like oh now it's i don't have to do that as much but sometimes because people know me now yeah but at the beginning i had to you have to address because i've seen it with other comics i remember once i was doing a gig and this geezer had a an accent and they weren't listening to a word he was saying Because they were trying to work out his accent And he came off and I said to him I never like to give people feedback or anything And he goes to me I felt that was a bit dead And I said to him You know what I think it is I said it's your accent You need to explain why you got this accent Like otherwise Because they're like Was you born here?

15:26Did you pick that up? What happened? Was you born here and then raised in a different country? And then I think he was like Icelandic or something like that So you have to address these things Because they don't listen They're trying to work you out

15:38Mo Gilligan: And also they're like I want to hear the joke, but I can't get past your accent. Yes. Do you know what I mean? Yes. Yeah, yeah. And a lot of it is, people don't realise it's like connecting with them, innit? You've got to make them feel safe. And you're also, like, you're giving me all these compliments, but you're also, like, so good at doing it. Oh, I appreciate it. Thank you. No, honestly, you're so calm. Like, so people trust you straight away on stage. Yeah, no, I think that's something I've built up, though. Yeah, it's like you're saying, I've had to definitely, it wasn't like that back in the day when I got 10 minutes.

16:07but definitely I think if I'm hosting like a show like one if I do like Mo Gilegan and Friends

16:13Mo Gilligan: I do want to set the tone for comedy and be like look this is the tone it's going to be vibey I'll talk to you I might take the piss but never enough that you're like I feel so embarrassed in the break when I get a drink people are going to be laughing at me and even then I'm like all right cool I'll bring it back and I will be like look you get you get some free drinks or whatnot and stuff but also knowing that like the show ain't all about me if that makes sense so it's having enough laughter but you're like I gotta leave some for all the other comics as well do you know what I mean and be like alright look we've had a good laugh the room's up let me bring this person on do you know what I mean and a lot of people don't see that's the good that's the good back in the day I didn't know I can't lie to you yeah but even that realisation there's a lot of comics that don't they're like you know well this is my show this is what I want it's called you know So I'll talk and do whatever I want.

17:07And I'm like, you do realise this is a gig. Like it's not. It's to have that much like awareness is a credit, man. That's growth.

17:15Mo Gilligan: Do you know what I mean? A lot of people don't. Yeah, it gets there though. You know how it is. It gets there. It gets there in time when you're like, do you know what? Yeah. I've got my other thing, but you are going to really enjoy this person coming up. Let me just save that. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. How are you finding it now where like, you know, you're transitioning more on TV. Recently I was watching Channel 4 He was on Last Leg I see you on Last Leg a few times And stuff as well Taskmaster as well How are you enjoying those kind of moments? Because that was one of your breakout moments On Taskmaster How was that for you?

17:51It was so Doing it was so fun It's exactly how you see it on TV They're all so lovely Behind the camera and in front of the camera like Greg and Alex, the producers, everyone, the people that make the things that you're, you know, using. You know, we had one, that monster challenge. Those people going around work dressed as monsters. They're from production, you know, and they're so nice. I really enjoyed it. But I was like, during that time, I was going through a breakup. So in between takes, I was crying. I swear to God. Were production worried about you and stuff as well? No, but I had to tell them.

18:27They were kept on coming in and checking and saying, You're okay to carry on and stuff like that. But in between takes, man, I was like... And the makeup artist must have hated me because every five minutes I was like... But she was nice. She was like, it doesn't matter. Cry as much as you need. That was tough. And I started filming it on my birthday and he broke up with me a week before. Yeah. And I was like, what? Like proper, like, bye, like, block everything. I'm like, what is going on here? Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, it was like tough. But this is it You have that thing That you turn on and off Yeah

19:01Mo Gilligan: That you That's always why I say like Being a comic in some way Is very close to almost Being a superhero in some way Yeah Because you will have Real life stuff going on And you're like Alright Alright And action Yeah man Yeah And when them cameras stop I've just been on my phone like You alright Yeah it's dealing with something Yeah it's It gets like that man It's definitely like a It's almost like Like, you know, I think there's a phrase, tears of a clown in some ways, where like you can be going through something, but then also on the other side, you've got this happening. Do you know what I mean?

19:36Mo Gilligan: Do you ever look at that moment of taskmaster of like, rah, like... A beautifully designed Squarespace website is the difference between thinking about photography school and selling your portraits online. It's the difference between giving away those cookies you just made for free and running your cookie empire. A beautifully designed Squarespace website is the difference between having a movie-reviewing hobby and a movie-reviewing career. Squarespace, because no matter what you're into, a website makes it real. Use offer code THEDIFFERENCE for 30 % off every plan. Terms and conditions apply.

20:12Mo Gilligan: Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie. When you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well. Roof repair? Done well. Kitchen sink install? Done well. Deck upgrades? Done well. Electrical upgrade? Done well. Angie's been connecting homeowners with skilled pros for nearly 30 years, so we know the difference between done and done well. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find a pro for your project at Angie.com. What was happening there, and I still managed to pull out the bag in some ways. Do you know what I mean? Yes, yes, I did. Honestly I was crying on the way home And the car And the driver was like Do you want me to stop?

20:56And I'm like No it's okay And stuff I do think When I look back at it I do think Like yeah You know Sometimes we have to give ourselves credit And you know what I mean And be like Do you know what I'd done that And I was feeling like this So yeah I do look back on it and think Yeah You a bad bitch honey

21:18Mo Gilligan: Yeah I've had better One time I went to Parliament to talk about mental health. I'm sitting there talking to MPs, everything, going through it, you know? I said, I'm lying, you know? I shouldn't be here. We was like, yeah, we need to discuss what's going on, mental health. I look back at them pictures, I was like, I'm a fraud, you know? I was fully sitting there talking about what we need to do and I was going through it, man. Yeah, but then you're best placed though, isn't it? Your best place because you know what's needed. But also I feel like sometimes comedy, I don't know if you've ever had this as a comedian where you can be going through something, but going on that stage for 10 minutes, you make people laugh and it just, it's like the energy of laughter.

21:58Mo Gilligan: It's very hard to explain where you're like, oh, right, I needed that, you know, I needed to get that out. Or, you know, like where you might get a heckle and you really, it's real. You're like, shut the fuck up. Everyone laughs and you're like, I meant this one, you know? Do you know what you were saying about like people waiting for you? I've had geezers wait for me. Really? I was like, yeah, man. I was like, what? You want to fucking go, bro? Let's go. You want to have it? Say sweet. I swear to God. He's sick. Because they wouldn't shut up. I was at the gig and the MC was telling them to shut up.

22:33Everyone that come out was saying, can you be quiet? And they were just like, every time someone would say a joke, they would just say something. They weren't necessarily, so they were just like replying. And I'm like, what? Oh, that's the worst. This is, and everyone was getting so pissed off. People pay to come and watch, do you know what I mean? and you're there like so i just went in on them i went ham in on them and then they wanted to have a go out and i was like oh you want to go and the friend's like trying to stop him i was like no fucking let him go yeah come on you want to go and there's like these comedian male comedians around me you just see him disappearing to the background i'm like it's all right guys i've got this it's all right i swear to god not even to be like no come on like no i was like this is this This is why it's me for me.

23:18This is why I'm like, I look after myself. No one looks after me. Everything I have, I've got myself. Like, I don't rely on anyone, which is not always a good thing and stuff like that. Because are you mad? These two geezers. And you know those ones that have all the arm tattoos and that? I'm like, oh, you want to come on now? Come on, Terry. You want to go, Terry?

23:40Mo Gilligan: I bet they probably liked you more after that. No, she's fucking about it. I'll give it to her. you know i was like fuck you know i'll fucking give it to her man like how do you find stand-up as one as a woman but like as a as a muslim woman as well where like do you ever feel like sometimes there is pressure though that comes with that sometimes from your own community reason why i ask is like i remember like when i got to do television and stuff and you know people are asking me questions like oh what do you think about diversity in tv and you know doing things that people hadn't seen and there was an element of pressure in that of like bro i gotta represent like where i'm from and you know and i was quite fortunate enough to do a show like a big nasty that we really got to do that do you know what i mean but also what came with that which would some corners would say yeah but now we've got to make it a bit more professional do you know what i mean we can't be always saying it's like my more blood clots and do you know what i mean but i was like yeah but there's some people that want that And then it's the pressure that then starts to then intensify in some ways where when you go on a TV show, you know, you have a community who are like, oh, that represent us.

24:50Mo Gilligan: And some are like, represent us like that. But don't do it like that, but do it like this. Have you ever felt challenges yourself with that? Yeah, absolutely. I get a lot of like from the Muslim community, I get them being like, you're not a proper Muslim because you swear and stuff like that. So yeah, I get that And then I get the You're not British You're not from the East End You're not a Cockney You're not this You're not that So I get it from both sides Sometimes I don't feel like I really fit in anywhere Yeah, yeah, of course And people with representation I feel like groups want you Whatever community you belong to Everyone wants you to represent them In their way Yeah They're like, oh, you're not a proper this Because you don't do this You're not a this You're not that And so I've tried to I look at it now I say to myself like Yes I'm Muslim But I'm also Fatia I'm a comedian I'm all these other things as well And I can own And I've got a personality So I can only be myself You know Like I've written like a teen book And I did an interview for it It hasn't come out yet And I did an interview for it And the woman interviewing me Was also a Muslim author And she released the book And she got a lot of shit because she was talking about taking off her hijab and now she's wearing it again, which is her choice.

26:10It's got nothing to do with you. Why are you giving this woman shit? That's her experience. She's sharing it. And other people have a similar experience. Let them, you don't have to read the book. Who's making you read it? Like, are you unwell? Like, do you know what I mean? Like, what is wrong with, like we're putting you in an asylum and going, you have to read this book and do everything it says. So, and she said something to me. She goes to me, I'm a Muslim author. I'm not an Islamic author. and I was like yeah I just happen to be a Muslim that's a comedian but I'm a visibly identifiable Muslim and I guarantee you they're not going after Muslim men like who do the same thing that I do I guarantee you there are Muslim men that have sex on telly and all that kind of stuff they don't say shit to them I'll go on telly with a vape that has got 0 % nicotine not that it's any of their business and then I'm getting like death threats

27:02Mo Gilligan: You know You're on tour Yes How you feeling about this Is this your debut tour right Yes How you feeling I feel a lot of pressure I've never It's my first tour Because And I'm going to Edinburgh as well This will be my first time I've ever gone to Edinburgh Yeah but just I'm only going for the last two weeks But I feel pressure you know Because like People see you do all this stuff on TV And all that And they're like And I've been going 10 years Yeah And they're like I heard comedy you better be banging and I'm like you know it's my first show yeah so there's pressure in that that it has to be good some so it's a bit yeah some I'm like stressing yeah I've done the first leg of it I've done like 10 days so far and then I'm having a little break and then Edinburgh and then I'm getting back on it but it's um and it's gone well so far it's been really well received it's difficult when you do a show in it because you're like you you do it and then you're like I want to add this, I want to add that, I want to change this.

28:03I'm like, oh, I'm trying to do like a tight 50 and then have 10 minutes to, if in case I want to add anything, but have that tight 50, the core of it. And this is what people don't understand as well, how hard it is. And stuff.

28:16Mo Gilligan: One thing I definitely learned of doing my first tour was almost like, for them, this is their first experience of seeing me live. It's not the clubs. It's not the TV. They're seeing me live. So it's weirdly okay Because you've got this room for error Because they know it's the first time I think I felt more pressure Doing the second tour Because now they're like Oh I missed out on that one Now you've gone on to do this Now it's the second one The rooms get a bit bigger More people coming That for me felt like the most pressure And also I don't think I was the comedian That I thought I was So like And what I say by that I was like More interested of like Okay I want to look like this or I want to wear, you know, I want to make, I've got a nice little chain.

29:00Mo Gilligan: I want to wear a nice watch and all that stuff. Whereas by the time I've got to the third tour, I'm like, I don't even need that. Like, because now my audience know me. I don't need to be the comedian. I think I am. I feel more comfortable just black t-shirt, black trousers and go out there. Do you know what I mean? How are you feeling about Edinburgh? Because this is, Edinburgh, I feel like is where kind of like the industry's at. Do you know what I mean? For us as comics. Yes. Do you know what I mean? How are you feeling about doing your Edinburgh debut? Nervous Very nervous Again there's that pressure of She better be good This better be good So I'm nervous I'm nervous also from peers You know like your colleagues Yeah yeah yeah Other comedians come watching you and be like Is that it?

29:44You know all those comedians used to cuss And be like shut up bruv You gotta write I think none of your jokes Yeah yeah yeah Like all that And then you're there like

29:51Mo Gilligan: Yeah Doing some shit joke And they're like oh is it like You can see them And they don't laugh in the audience Like brother why are you coming man? exactly why are you trying to like like ruin me so i'm a i'm i'm um yeah i am nervous i'm not gonna lie i'm i've never been able to go edinburgh because i won't be able to afford it even going now i don't know if i'm gonna make any money from it oh no you're making money but i don't know man i'm just like you know why you're making money because you've got one you've got good credits but also like you're at a place now and stand up where you're going to be the person that's like Like, oh my God, I've seen her on my task monster.

30:27Mo Gilligan: Oh my God, that was, when you done that thing, I brought my friend and he was great. I swear that's the audience that you started getting. Even for myself, like, I don't think I'd go back to Edinburgh, but there is a part of me that's like, oh, like, maybe I could run a two weeks possibly. The only worry for me is with Edinburgh, it's always been the weather for me. Oh, really? The weather. Have you ever been to Edinburgh before? Yeah, but I like the coolness. man. Listen, Edinburgh, it's like being in October every day. I love that. I love the cool weather. Oh no, I can't. For me, it's like, and the weather isn't a big factor.

31:07Mo Gilligan: I think it's that is the price, but also I'm quite fortunate enough to be like, I'm able to tour and I don't want to feel like I'm going up there on like a flex of like, can I go? And I want people to go and discover those comics who you're like, oh, like I've heard this person's really great. I don't want to be that person Putting on a show For like 20 pounds And I don't want to feel like I'm taking money Out of another comedian's pocket Do you know what I mean Because I want you to Go and check out If it's a show at 8 o 'clock Go see This wicked up and coming comic Do you know what I mean Yeah Because it's not fair That I didn't go And be like Well I'll be at Amersmith Next month Yeah Do you know what I mean I just feel like There's a level of balance That you need to have It's different if you go out For like a three night special Gonna do a show there And then cut But I'm not Yeah for me I'm like, look, give that to the comics that are out here really.

31:57Mo Gilligan: Do you know what I mean? That's very thoughtful. I think the only reason why I say that, because I've been able to go and experience it and having done a bucket show where you're like, boy, if you enjoyed it, put whatever you want in the bucket. That experience is so humbling that I was like, okay, cool. This is like when people are putting euros and you're like, come on, man, that's not even, you can't even use that here. Do you know what I mean? Packets of Wrigley's. you're like are you taking a fucking piss i'm gonna steal your car yeah yeah so you i've heard that you give yourself a bit of a pep talk yes before you go on stage because i've been with you before stage like before we've jumped on stage one thing i do i did love about it i don't know if you remember this when there's another comment that gave you advice and you was like no i'm all right, you know, bro.

32:46I remember, I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah, people had a...

32:53Mo Gilligan: Do you know how funny that is? That was so funny. You was like, yeah, no, I hear that, but I'm all right, you know, bro. And he was like, no, no, but what it is, no, I hear that, but no, I'm good, you know. Yeah, I just think, who the fuck do people think they are, Dan? I can give you I know a way to make that joke better I'm like do you want to keep your teeth I know a way that you can keep your teeth And not go see dentists Shut your fucking mouth That was so funny Because I was sitting there And I was like Probably she knows what she wants You know Fair enough man Because sometimes I think It's a flex thing as well Like we're sitting there There's about 10 people I don't know all these people And you're telling me straight up In front of all these people That you want to tell me some shit About my joke You lost your fucking mind Like I'll burn that place to the ground are you crazy ain't no way ain't no what's the pep tool that you still give to yourself to this day i'm just like i do a little prayer i just say bismillah which means in the name of allah and we i say that all the time entering rooms leaving rooms going up the stairs going out of a door in a door whatever before you drink um it's just something we do muslims do and i do all the time and i just say to myself like i don't just like we're gonna have a good time don't forget who it's about you know like what you were saying i'm very much like that these people have paid to come and laugh um you need to deliver that to them this ain't about you a lot of people have ego it's like this is my safe time i can talk about whatever i want but is it relatable are they going to understand are they going to laugh are they going to enjoy it yeah do you know what i mean it's different if you're maybe talking about something that's heartfelt or a difficulty or something like that that's different but you're going to lace it with something funny you can't just like yeah you know are you just talking basically is that what it is because that's not comedy so so yeah i just i'm just like do that prayer and and then i just assume it's funny that you get that rush of adrenaline and you're like shitting yourself the minute they say your name and you step out it goes it goes you just have to walk out you just have to walk out and you're like well i'm on stage now here it is there's not i can't go back like i can't i can't re-walk out although i have done it if someone has introduced me and it's been a bit come on bruv like come on man don't do that man or sometimes you know sometimes if a host don't set you up right and you're like oh i have to rework everything yes you've just undone like i've done a show the other day just popped into top secret and lovely guy but it's like for me i'm just trying some stuff i'm like i'm gonna go there do some 10s do some 20s put some stuff in there And I know it's a Friday night So for them it's like Oh bro Mo's coming Oh sick Here is one guy Alright so next coming on Is Mo Gilligan He's going to be great isn't he Alright so You guys ready for that I said bro don't do that Say it before Come on man Because now people are looking They're like Where is he So when I've walked out It's like Oh he's actually here I said bro come on man I think that's also my ego though If I'm honest as well So do you feel like It's helped you like starting comedy like with that life experience does that make sense because i feel like you've always been a comic like you know who you are in it like from when i first met you i was like oh yeah you're gonna be an absolute star and i really you know i say that because one you're like your material was sick the delivery was cold but you knew who you was do you know what i mean you was like and that's a comic that's like i'm a bit nervous but i think this might go well i'm gonna tried i've got this new bit like i think even one time you come off stage you must have a new bit but i was like no no you you smashed it though but you have do you know i mean has that has has that aided your your um your stand-up in some ways of having life experience for sure because i think it gives me loads of material but also just knowing how to behave i know how to behave in a green room knowing how to behave with other comics yeah yeah how to behave with promoters a lot of it it's not you that's obviously the going on stage is a big part but it's also about how you interact with people how you talk to people and also for me it's always been about the audience it's never I'm never like I'm up here you know I'm talking about myself and you're all listening yeah like it's not an ego thing it's like I see it as a job I'm here to deliver so I've got to make sure they're my clients and I've got to make sure they're happy and like you know they get what they've come for you know yeah so that's the way yeah but definitely life experience gives you material for sure yeah not like some this is why a lot of these other young ones and that they all have writers because they don't have shit what do they have to talk about like nothing yeah do you know what i mean so when i was young i was talking about raving that was that was my life experience that some of them don't have they don't have struggles they don't have anything like that so what what are you talking about that's why they you know i can tell when someone's got a writer or had a writer i can tell yeah because sometimes you know what it is is like you know when the jokes are just landing too smooth like like you know like when someone's doing this the the lead up and you're like that's that's smooth you know you know you're like right that's great writing you wrote that right you know what i always know when someone's got a writers where someone tells a joke and you go i wish i would have thought that you go oh okay it was too smooth bruv how you got this is your this is your 10 minutes and you didn't start or have like a crowd work but i was like no that that that middle bit was smooth bruv exactly and then you've got like they'll they'll start off and they'll do really well and you're like oh my god this is so good and then they'll go into the material they've written and it goes or like someone in the audience would be like, next!

38:47Mo Gilligan: And you're like, ooh. Ooh. Yeah. That's where comics go.

38:56Mo Gilligan: A beautifully designed Squarespace website is the difference between thinking about photography school and selling your portraits online. It's the difference between giving away those cookies you just made for free and running your cookie empire. A beautifully designed Squarespace website is the difference between having a movie-reviewing hobby and a movie-reviewing career. Squarespace. Because no matter what you're into, a website makes it real. Use offer code THEDIFFERENCE for 30 % off every plan. Terms and conditions apply. Hi, it's me, your gutters. I want to start by saying I'm fine. Everything is totally fine.

39:33Mo Gilligan: There's just, there's a lot of debris up here and I've been managing it mostly on my own for about eight months now and I just thought maybe you could find someone on Angie to clean me up. You don't have to make it a whole thing. It doesn't need to be a whole thing. I just, I could really use your help. Your gutters have waited long enough. Find a pro at Angie.com.

40:01Mo Gilligan: How was it? You're right. Yeah. Guy threw me off in the front row.

40:10Mo Gilligan: so like where you are now in your career where you're able to do you know television now and you're going on tour and you got your debut novel as well yeah you know um how are your family with this because you've got a big family like does it feel like within the family you're like the chosen famous one does that make sense yes in some ways yeah like one of my sisters is always Messaging my mum Going She's everywhere She's She's on TikTok She's on She's always moaning And my mum's like What are you doing And stuff But But they They're very supportive They come to my show sometimes I've had to ban them Because they take the Fucking piss When they come to the show Because I'm on stage And they're going Fatihah Fatihah You're very funny I'm like Are you crazy bro 700 people And you're there Going Look at me I can fucking hear you I know it's you I hear you every day go away so um so yeah it's but they're very supportive even my family in morocco will be like oh we saw this on tiktok oh that was great oh we saw this you're wearing this dress oh and stuff so they're all very like proud and happy happy for me and that makes me happy you know they're behind me yeah yeah yeah it's nice it's not it's nice when you're able to give them things you know i sent my mom on like the islamic pilgrimage and that's no one in our family's Ever gone there Because we're Yeah Because we're working class That was a big Thing for me I got a bit of money And I just Blew Like Just put it all Into sending her So that was a bit I haven't even been But I was like She needs to go Because she's older And stuff You don't know Yeah You know what can happen And that So I was like So that was a big thing Being able to do Something like that And it's going to Going to Hajj right That was good She did Umrah Which is I couldn't send That to the Hajj one Because we missed the time Okay But she can't do Hajj Because she's in a wheelchair So she won't be able to do it But I sent her to Umrah Which is There's another one Which that's not obligatory But Hajj is But I sent her to that So people usually do Umrah And then they do Hajj Yeah So inshallah Soon Hajj And I was going to say next year But I haven't planned it yet It's vibing when you get to do stuff like that though Especially like Where your career takes you As much as You have your own little moments Where you're like Oh I got to go on this Or got to do that You know when you're like Oh like I remember taking my family to to eat christmas dinner once and we went to a restaurant on christmas and i was like mom don't cook man like you cook every year let's go out and like we went out to the restaurant was like hello madam okay and seeing my whole family just act a bit bougie was like i was like that you know my mom was like yeah yeah but like i think that's what it feels like sometimes you do it for as much as yes you do it for your own internal ego or you do it for you know i want to get far in this and i want to take it here there is a part of you that's like kind of need my family to enjoy this too otherwise it's a bit pointless yeah do you know what i mean in some ways yeah what would you say what's next for you as you kind of grow into your career because your career is flying do you know what i mean like when it's touring and and i said this from day and i'll also say on record I told people to sign you from early on I was like you need to sign this for me you know mad funny but like what would you say what's next for you within the next I don't know 10 years because there must be so many other female comics who are Muslim that look up to you and probably you know maybe ask for advice and you know you're gonna be that person now where as much as you're representing you know your community you're gonna get a new wave of female muslim you know comedians and and male comedians as well who are like wow like you like are really doing your thing especially where you're from you know morocco as well you know like that's gonna really start to change your life as you change theirs so so how do you start to you know orchestrate that within the next like 10, 15 years of your own career?

44:24God, I just, I think just carry on working hard. And when people come to me, like Muslim comics come to me for advice or people just say to me like, sometimes it could be because I'm an older woman. They're like, because I came into this, I started doing it when I was like 34, something like that. So when, so people come and be like, oh, because you're an older woman, because you're a Muslim woman, ethnic, hijabi, all those kind of communities will come and ask me and i just say to them like you know this is you just have to work hard you have to work hard like i used to work monday to friday and then i used to gig six nights a week and i did that for eight years you know i'm saying i did the shitty clubs where you perform into a dog yeah i did i did a work in progress one hour to silence do you know what i'm saying you can't i'm telling you and at the end they clapped and i was like no one's leaving this room because I'm going to kill every cunt in here like I was like no honestly I was like no one's leaving are you mad one hour and then you clap at the end and laugh at the end like this ain't Shakespeare bruv like you need to let me know

45:32Mo Gilligan: that was a mainstream that innit yeah I know the vibes I've been there I've been there yeah and I'm like and you know within the first 30 seconds innit that you're like this is going to be a shit show but then you change gear in your head because you're like I need to say this out loud. This is what I'm here for, whether they like it or not. Then you make it about you. And you're like, I just need to make sure I say these words out loud to see if anything clicks, if it works, if it doesn't, where the changes need to go and all that kind of stuff. So I just say to people like, you just need to work hard.

46:04You need to work hard. You need to put your hours in. You need to put the graft in. There'll be loads of people around you, even people that we know that have got to where they are, not because of hard work, because of, I don't know, loads of other reasons but they won't last they won't last you and then always have like integrity never you know and boundaries as well i guess like sometimes there are things you have to say no to and it's okay to say no um and don't do anything you're not comfortable with i don't know it's just i guess the the best thing for me to do is just carry on doing what i'm doing yeah do you know what i mean and then and then yeah and then just hopefully that inspires more and more people and i always say to people just do it if you if you want to do stand up do the course or just go to an open mic i'll say i always recommend a course because i think that helps you with your confidence um because you can do an open mic this is another thing you could be funny in front of your friends but that don't mean you're funny on stage this is another when you get on

47:01Mo Gilligan: that stage yeah and then them lights when you see the brightness of them lights when you first go up you know we do a thing you've seen at the show where i say to people come up and tell a joke yes the amount of people that come up and the first thing they go oh it's bright up here yeah yeah man it's very bright it's hot as well we can't see none of your faces yeah 100 exactly and people you know it looks good it looks easy because we're good at it because we've worked really hard yeah and then they think oh exactly and they're like oh yeah I'll just go up there and tell them that funny story I told my aunt Janet and everyone cracked up.

47:40I'm like, nah, bro. There's an art to this. This ain't just off the top of your head kind of thing. It's different when you're doing like crowd work or something. When ad-libbing is different, like you can't, and people don't want just ad-libbing as well, the audience. They want to know who you are. They want to see bits of you. They want to, you know, connect with you like that. So you can't just go up there and like, you know, ad-lib the whole time or do crowd work the whole time. I'm like, that's not how it is. Unless you're like the MC or something. Do you know what I mean?

48:08Mo Gilligan: I know what you mean in terms of like stand-up where we do make it look easy. And that's part of the craft and the allure. We have to make it look easy. We have to make it look like, oh, where are you from? Oh, you're from South London. But we know we got a joke about South London. Exactly. We just need sometimes the launch pad to get there and stuff. And I think sometimes it's like, oh, I could be. that he's just talking about dude i'm like yeah but you know there's a there's a callback in there you know that you know you know as much as what i'm telling you there's there's structure to it there's a pacing there's a timing that's different to get this laughter yeah and i think that's where you know us as stand-ups we sit there and we go yeah it's quite hard you know it's actually this is actually well you know when you deep it you're like hey this is quite hard yeah it is so hard When you have to do one hour, imagine you're doing that the whole hour.

49:03And that is hard. And keeping them on board, pulling them in, bringing them out, all that kind. And again, like what you said, we've got a callback. And then also, you've also got your B-side if that goes wrong. Oh, yeah. And all that with the interaction with the audience. You know, they don't understand. I feel like, I'm sure you feel this. Like in your head, what's coming out of your mouth? In your head, you're like 10 steps in front. Oh, yeah. You're like, if this don't work, I've got to do this. That person, why are they talking? I can feel there's a little commotion here da da da shall I address it shall I not and all this people don't realise you've got like two things going on at once you're proper multitasking

49:38Mo Gilligan: especially when you address sometimes the elephant in the room like I've done some shows recently on tour and I was in some sports halls and I had to just start before we got into anything in the crowd where I was like yeah this is a bit awkward isn't it this is where they do the voting like this is the polling station basically and everyone I think was like okay yeah he he gets where he is yes we get where you are yes so there's no because I think if you didn't do it the other way we're just like yeah it's lovely to be here man and people like really bro you're in a sports hall you do I didn't think I paid 30 pounds to sit in a sports hall but I think when you address the elephant in the room I've always felt like the audience respect you a bit more or even the way that you might tell someone to be quiet where you're like i could go into this yeah or i could just say i guys bring it down a touch yeah yeah because if i do that then i'm gonna have a conversation and then you want to have a conversation and that's not what i even want i just want to crack on yeah exactly i mean and just get on with it but then there's also other people you're like yeah no i gotta say something yeah you know i mean it's like a hard line to balance in some ways and you make these decisions in your head like it's split seconds this is what people don't realize like what's going on up there is not the same.

50:56Like these two are, they're connected. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But this one's light years ahead in what's coming out of your mouth.

51:04Mo Gilligan: Have you ever had that thing where you're performing there and you see a few people get up and they're leaving? You're like, well, are you going home? And I say, are you mad, bro? You want to say something? But you're like, I don't know if they're going home. And I've done it once and I was like, yeah, yeah, so are you going? And they were like, no, I'll just go in the toilet. And I was like, oh, all right, cool. Anyway, as we were saying, and I think everyone was like bro like it's not that deep you know but for me I was like no you don't find it funny how dare you bro it's weird I think now I've had people like I'm like look once you pay you do whatever you want if you don't like it in the first five minutes it's okay you've paid a natural ticket or if again if you want I remember once on the show there's a man sleeping in the front row oh that one hurt you know because I said brother am I not am I that funny you're sleeping.

51:54Mo Gilligan: But then also at the same time, I'm like, look, it's your ticket. If you want to sleep, maybe he's had a hard day at work. Maybe his wife bought a ticket and he didn't want to come. Because that's, you know, it's like when you start doing shows, you're like, that's just the vibes. I'm like, there's only much I can do. Otherwise I'm like, hey, tell that guy to wake up, man. Listen to this bit that I wrote two years ago. Listen to this, man. So yeah, man. But I look forward to, to the tour. Do you think you're going to film a special as well? If it's offered to me, Like I want to do it with something Or someone big So if you suffer to me Hello Netflix Yeah inshallah I think it's coming I'm telling you Bismillah It's coming It's coming your way I really want to see that honestly man Oh thank you And it's such a pleasure to have you here on the pod Oh thank you You know I'm a big fan of your success Honestly Fatih And I can't wait to see How else like It starts to pan out Do you know what I mean Especially when I've had comics where Like they've done my shows years ago So it's not even like a Nah he's only getting me now Because he's trying to He's trying to find his way back in With the younger comics No we go back from ages man So no honestly It's really really great to see man Oh thank you I hope the tour's a big success as well Oh thank you Honestly this means so much You know It's so hard for people Other comics to like Be kind Do you know what I mean Like honestly It means a lot Like I would cry If I didn't want to mess my makeup up Do you know what I'm saying You know I've been a fan from time man Whenever I've got the Mo Gillingham Friends shows I've always been like I love doing them as well Honestly I mean what I say It's so good to see And yeah Inshallah You're going to get That special Yeah Inshallah The next time I come here He's a Muslim Inshallah Trust me bro Trust me bro Actually I don't know You know I don't know about that I had to think about I was like Oh yeah I don't know No I'm joking And then your mum's Already on to me Gus keeps telling people He's like His real name's Muhammad I'm like Bro It's not my head, man.

53:51Mo Gilligan: But no, thank you so much for doing the pod. I really appreciate it. And this has been your beginning, middle and end. Thank you very much. Thank you. Appreciate you, man. Hey, what's up, people? My name is Mo Gilligan. I just want to thank you so much for listening and watching my podcast. Now, a lot goes into making this podcast, as you can imagine. I might be the person that's in front of the screen, but it's really about the people that are behind the cameras. And what I'd really appreciate what you could do for them is one, give this a like. That'll be great. Hype it up. That'll be amazing.

54:23Mo Gilligan: But most importantly, if you could subscribe, if you could just hit that little bit just there and subscribe. The reason why that helps is it helps us build a community, what people like, what they want to see more of. And most importantly, it gets these podcasts straight to you. So you don't even have to look for them anymore. And how cool is that? Now, listen, if you do want to watch any other episodes, you can check out this episode down here and this episode just down here. I need you, Mo Gilligan. Take care. Peace.

55:18Mo Gilligan: Learn why at tearthepaperceiling.org. Brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council.