Ep 95 - Femi Koleoso on Success, Faith & Building Ezra Collective

0:00Mo Gilligan: Hey there, it's Wayfair here, where delivery and setup are as easy as a few taps on your phone. You're relaxing in an old hammock, scrolling Wayfair's app, when you spot it, a brand new patio set. Next thing you know, Wayfair delivers it right to your patio and sets it up. Oh, you need a new grill too? Alright, Wayfair's got you covered. With Wayfair's room of choice delivery and fast experts set up on qualifying orders, life gets a little easier. Visit Wayfair.com or the Wayfair app. Wayfair, every style, every home. Hey, what's up, people? My name is Mo Gilligan. And right now you're tuned into my podcast, Beginning, Middle and End.

0:37Mo Gilligan: Now, my guest is a drumming powerhouse behind one of the most exciting bands in British music. He's a band leader of the Mercury Prize and Brit Award winning Ezra Collective and a man who's taken jazz from the underground to the main stage. We talk about how the band came together at a youth club, the realities of tour life, and his most humbling experiences on the Brits red carpet. So please, welcome to the podcast, Femi Collioso. Femi, thanks so much for coming on, man. I know we crossed paths on Monday. Yes. At the Emirates and stuff, which is an interesting way to cross paths because normally, like, when I go to football games, it's probably like the opposite of what people know me as.

1:23Mo Gilligan: I take it very seriously. For the 90 minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The game before, I'll have a drink and I'll vibe, but I really enjoy the switch off of watching football. I love the shouting. I love the moments of anger, the moments of joy. People I don't know, you hug each other in 90 minutes and then I'm back in the room. It's my favourite escape. Especially live. It's the best hobby. I didn't enjoy it live until I got a bit older. Right. Because before I would go to a game of a friend and stuff. So, yeah, like, it was an interesting place to meet you because normally I don't go to the box and all of those things.

2:01Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I do generally like being with the fans where I say stuff. Yeah, so me and TJ, we got season tickets. Yeah, that's what you were saying. We got them this year, blood. Yeah. Can you imagine that? So, like, the email of emails came through in August and it was like, you know, you are God's favourite. You have been chosen. And so we, and it's just like the whole routine of it. Like link up with my brother. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go pub before. Yeah, yeah, same, same, same. Same, same, same. Same, same, same. Sit down. I'm good friends with all my seat neighbors. It's mad because like, don't really eat pie and mash like that, but when I'm at the grave, if they've got those pies that they do, why are these pies?

2:44Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So then, yeah, pause. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no, I'm on the, I'm, I'm in the right place. You know what I mean? any other context I would ask you what's good but like yeah but no it's my proper like escapism so it was great meeting you there but it's like I was saying to you when I seen you like I'm a fan first appreciate it 100 % bro I'm a big fan first man and you don't even know it bro but your music has got me through a lot of times where like music has always been as a performer my escapism which is so different to football but when I'm on the road and I want to listen to music and just also listen to music.

3:23Mo Gilligan: There's one thing where you have music on that you know, but you're like, I just want to listen to this. I just want to let it play. And that's what your music provides. Honestly, I swear on my mother's life. I'm not saying it because you're here. So I really thank you for coming in. no, honestly, likewise. And do you know what? My own anecdote, I remember when it kind of, it's probably about 10 years ago now when your video started to kind of Yeah, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Big ups, bruv. But me and my housemate at uni, Rosie Judge, I was studying drums. She was doing violin. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we would just kind of like finish these days in orchestra and rehearsal and watch your reels, bruv.

4:04Oh, big ups, bruv. So I watched you in on the creek. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like five pounds. I was like, I was there, man. Do you know what I'm saying? Thank you, man. So yeah, yeah, yeah. It's full circle.

4:15Mo Gilligan: Oh, thank you, bruv. So you started playing, because you said you went uni, but you started playing like music when you were like three years old. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. My mum and dad bought me one of them Argos My First drum kit toys. Oh yeah, I was one of them. It was just a toy. But I think from the outset they were like, this is more than a toy to this boy, like he's in love with it. And then whatever kind of like community Enfield kind of like bring your toddler music things there were, they would just try their best to try and because I just loved playing with these things and then I was able to get I was given a drum kit by the drummer at church and it's moments like that I didn't realize that I'd completely changed my life forever but I get this drum kit and from that moment on I'm just cooked never stopped I feel like playing the drums in church is like being the lead singer of a rock band.

5:12Mo Gilligan: Oh yeah. Probably slightly better. Yeah. Because it's like, you're the heartbeat of the church. You're the chosen one. Yeah. It's why the church drummers be causing so many issues. Like the ego is well swollen by age 11. When they just got the, they just have to stick. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, exactly. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm on drums. You get me? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? And then they're like, what's your name? Femi. And they're like, I know exactly who you are. I know exactly who you are. The church drummer is... You can't talk to the church drummer, you know?

5:48Mo Gilligan: No, no, no. Especially when they really go in. And you can tell I'm like, you wasn't meant to do this. This solo, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I can see the bass looking at you like, hey, brother, chill out. It's about the Lord, big man, not you, Femi. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I was, I was chugged. Yeah, I just, I felt incredible about it. But then you know what it was? I was playing the drums in church, loved it. But I think in my school, very, very state school, black and Caribbean, African and Caribbean primary school, it just felt very normal to go to church. Very normal. One of you kind of play an instrument in church or whatever.

6:31It was only when I went to secondary school and then people were like, no, it's like, I can't play drums, man. That's sick that you can do that. And that's what made me feel like, oh this is really cool and that kind of like when you make a child feel cool about something they become bulletproof that's like the main substance to be like okay I'm doing this forever do you know what I mean yeah

6:51Mo Gilligan: especially the drum kit though it's not easy the thing is I remember being quite young and I always wanted to play the drum kit I feel like a lot of kids want to play it because it looks really cool and you can hit different instruments you know the snare and all this kind of stuff but then it's actually very hard to play yeah in terms of I feel like you know like when you see like a guitar you're like wow that looks great but I can see just physically that you have to learn how to play this does that make sense? yeah understood well I feel like the drums is like oh you get oh hold on what the why is this rhythm not going with do you know what I mean?

7:25it's a bit like ice skating when you look at it it's like it looks simple enough just once until you're on the ice so you're like oh bro when you're trying to do

7:34Mo Gilligan: there's a little vibe here this ain't working out so like being from Enfield How did you, because I'm trying to get the link of like, you grew up in Enfield, you play the drums, but then you have like, you start playing jazz. Yeah. Because I feel like North London, especially Enfield, if I'm thinking Enfield, I'm thinking like Edmonton near to Tottenham. And you think of the people that have come out from Tottenham musically, especially let's say like, you know, Skeptor Boyd and all that kind of stuff. so how was like jazz the transition does that make sense because I know you like you guys all met at like the youth club as well so I would just assume that youth club is like pair of decks everyone's emceeing well I tried to emcee it just flopped oh yeah fair enough we all did we all did we all dabbled you know what I'm saying we all downloaded the instrument and gave it a shot yeah but you know what it was as simple as that moment when I went to secondary school and I'd been playing drums in church, the school had like a drum teacher that would come in weekly and just teach whoever wanted to play the drums.

8:45And he was a jazz drummer. Oh, okay. And I think I just kind of got fascinated and obsessed with this thing I didn't understand. It was as simple as that. And it's kind of like, I don't know, it's almost like a similar appeal to when I see something that doesn't quite make sense to me, I get a little bit like obsessed with understanding it. I like to understand why it was like that. I want to understand why you think like that. And all of those different, it's why traveling is something that I love doing so much because I see all these things that I don't quite understand and I want to work it out.

9:22And jazz, it was just kind of like, I don't really understand this. It doesn't sound like anything I recognize. And that was something that I became fascinated with. at the same time I got obsessed with trying to become the greatest drummer like of all time I was practicing like a lot at school and like a lot of the direction that my favorite drummers were speaking they would be like oh if you want to be great at drums learn to play jazz and so it was that kind of like teenage curiosity that was playing in my mind I kind of think it's probably similar to what someone like a wiley would have gone through when he was listening into like jungle and garage and working out what can I do that would be slightly different if that makes sense yeah yeah yeah I got into that bag and then from that kind of obsession I found this youth club that had similar people that looked like me spoke like me went to schools like me and had the same obsession and that becomes community okay and I think when you kind of fuse a passion with a community suddenly it becomes a movement yeah like being an Arsenal fan for for example.

10:27Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

10:28Mo Gilligan: And you guys met at the youth club as well, right? Exactly that. So, yeah. So like when I'm thinking, cause I always think youth club has got two, maybe three kinds of people in there. You've got people who are like, I'm just trying to get off, trying to get off the roads. And this is where I can play, you know, play a bit of PlayStation, play some table tennis. But once they leave that place, they go back to doing what they're doing. 100%. Then you've got other people in the youth club, which is, oh, I genuinely like playing pool and, or table tennis. and even when I used to go to youth club there was a part of me that was like I'm really good at table tennis I could maybe be international but there was no one that's there's no one from I don't know Team GB coming to the youth club do you know what I mean and I think the other set the last set of people that would go to the youth club would nine times out of ten people that would like work there but they're part of the community and some people that would just like you've got some of the older boys and you're just like right you lot you lot are just why are you lot still here so it's this melting pot of everyone that's in a youth club and some people want to be really productive.

11:26Mo Gilligan: They want to, like, I want to play football, but I don't know how to get into it and I'm not on the roads. Do you know what I mean? So how did you guys meet? Was it like, because I'm envisioning like you lot are at youth club and you all play instruments and then did it form organically like that? Does that make sense? Yeah, no, it's such a good question. So to kind of go back onto how you described the youth club, I actually have started to see the youth club as far more broadly than that. And I'm starting to see it as a gathering of young people for extracurricular activity. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

12:01And so even something like your football academy, your tennis academy, scouts or pubs or whatever. Do you know what I mean? I see them all kind of like youth clubs. With this particular youth club, there was no table tennis table or pool table. Oh, right. It was sit in a circle and play instruments. Okay. That's what it was. Oh, right. So it's like, I would turn up to this basement in the Southbank Centre on a Saturday at like 11am or whatever. And there's all these bedrooms that just had like, one had a trumpet, someone had a guitar. And the youth club leader was a musician who teach us all a song.

12:40We'd learn to play the song and then we'd play together in this circle. And at lunchtime, you break off and you've got like a specific bedroom that was like, oh yeah, it was sick when you played this and you hear me trying to do a ting and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that's like what James, the saxophone player, was to me. He was just coming from Catford. I was coming from Enfield. And we would try and learn the same tunes because I wanted to play with James. Do you know what I'm saying? And then I was like to TJ, like fam, I found this youth club is hard. Like just bring your bass. And TJ's kind of like initially was like, oh, but I'm dry at bass.

13:15It's like, bruv, my bed and my dry. It's fine. Like I'm dry. Do you know what I'm saying? he came through and so yeah that's kind of how it worked and then like every kind of musician in this big circle of 25 of us playing we're like let's the best mates that you have let's make a band out of it and that's how Ezra Collective was born yeah so it was like this big group condensed into a smaller group and we called ourselves Ezra Collective and then from there

13:42Mo Gilligan: oh wow that it's mad that you say it like that because I feel like I can see that in like the biopic film. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100 % that'll be the first scene in it. You know what I mean? Me on the Victoria line and then just like walk in and there's other bedrooms. Yeah, exactly. You play violin? Yeah, literally. I play. Yeah, run a thing, man. Yeah. The only one I didn't want to meet is like another drummer, innit? Because then that's the op. Do you know what I'm saying? But yeah, it's like, what do you play? Trumpet. All right, hard. Yeah, that works, that works. Sax, all right. Cool, cool, cool.

14:13Yeah. So that's how it works.

14:15Mo Gilligan: Because you mentioned that in your Mercury Prize, when you won your Mercury Prize in 2023, you mentioned youth clubs as well. But then like where you are now in like your middle, like winning like that award, how significant was that like for you and the guys? Because I kind of like, I know what it's like to win the thing. But I also know what it's like after you win the thing and it's like, oh, okay, cool now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean? A hundred percent. It was, it was seismic. Like, I remembered just really my dream was if one day we can get nominated for a Mercury Prize, one day we can be the token jazz nomination, that would be the top of the mountain.

15:05And then when the day came around, you kind of wake up in the morning and you're like, well, you know, it is one out of 12. Someone has to win. But I mean, the year we did it, the year we won, Ray, Olivia Dean, Arctic Monkeys, Fred again, Jay Hustle, like it was, it was really, really strong. Yeah, yeah, I remember that year. But yeah, the moment we won, it was, it was, it was genuinely life changing. It was like overnight, Ezra Collective became, it was this secret that me and my bedrooms had, and like my mum and her friends, and my dad and his friend, like it wasn't and then overnight it became everyone kind of knew to a degree about this first jazz band to win the prize and i think one of the best decisions i'd ever made is that the following album um had been written before we won the mercury prize meaning i wasn't writing under this enormous pressure yeah it had already been done i'd already spoken my truth it was just not out yet.

16:09So I think that was a real kind of managing tool. I can't even envisage what mentally it would have done to me if we'd won the Mercury Prize and hadn't written any music because then writing under that pressure would have felt enormous.

16:22Mo Gilligan: Because I guess it's like you have to now live up to one, it's the, you know, like whenever someone wins something, it's now, I don't know, you want to say like Grammy nominated or Grammy award winning. So now the next one always is going to have that Yeah, exactly. Next to the name. Exactly. I mean, right on the sticker, it'll be the Mercury Prize winning Ezra Collective. So you wrote the album before. Yeah. And that album is... Is that where I'm meant to be? Was it that album? So where I'm meant to be won the Mercury Prize. Dance No One's Watching had been written... Before. Before. It'd been written before we actually got the award.

17:02Mo Gilligan: Yeah. So let me get my bearings. Dance, where I'm meant to be would have been released 2022 around September, October, November kind of time. And then I think it was 2023 Mercury Prize. Is that right? Maybe. It's all a bit blurry. But anyway, when we'd won that Mercury Prize, we'd already just recorded Dance No One Was Watching. We recorded that in August, actually the day after Carnival, which in hindsight was a mistake. But after Notting Hill Carnival, went to Abbey Road. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, first day wasn't that productive. The next two we clawed it back. And then, yeah, so when we'd won it, we'd already made the record.

17:41So that kind of heavyweight feeling, if you like, wasn't really there. We'd already made our piece, if you like.

17:50Mo Gilligan: Did it feel like a blur after you won that? Because, you know, you guys played with everyone, in terms of Georgia Smith, Gorillaz. I've seen the clip with yourselves and Kano and Fred again. and that just looked mental. Like just seeing big tubers on the stage. It looked, but I think why I say did it feel like a blur? Because I guess it's like, does it feel like a blur, but does it feel like pressure? Because when people are thinking of mainstream jazz and they type in, you know, like jazz groups in the UK and you come up, for example, does it feel like a bit of pressure in the sense of, oh, we're the, I don't know, the Guardian reader who, not just to use it as an example, I don't know, I'm a Guardian reader, why are you using me as an example?

18:42Mo Gilligan: But you know, like, what can happen over a dinner table when you win something like a Mercury Prize and people go, oh, let's check these guys out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then does it also feel like a blur because things are moving so quick? Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Absolutely. Feeling like a blur. Absolutely. Absolutely, because there's always the music industry, and to be honest, the Western world has a real lust for what's next. You have someone release an album, and within a month, people are like, what's next? Every time we announce a tour, people will comment and say, what about this city?

19:23What about that city? But I'm always like, I've just announced 25 different cities. Like, can we not just breathe and be grateful for just the 25? And maybe we'll add later on. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, of course. So it's like always rushing, always what's next. Even like this moment right now, I'm so grateful to be speaking to you. But then I've got like eight other things I've got to do straight after this. Really and truly, it should be speak to you. Then we have lunch and then we have dinner and we just spend the whole day together. But that's just not really reality anymore. So that's what causes the blur, if you like.

19:58But at the same time, there's definitely a degree of, I guess, responsibility that is attached to success. And I genuinely, I feel responsible to prop other people up. I feel responsible to say thank you really eloquently to the reasons that I think have contributed to this moment of success.

20:28Mo Gilligan: in an old hammock scrolling Wayfair's app when you spot it, a brand new patio set. Next thing you know, Wayfair delivers it right to your patio and sets it up. Oh, you need a new grill too? All right, Wayfair's got you covered. With Wayfair's room of choice delivery and fast experts set up on qualifying orders, life gets a little easier. Visit Wayfair.com or the Wayfair app. Wayfair, every style, every home. and that's why for a lot of people they find award speech is tricky when they win but i find them like the easiest thing in the world because it's like say thank you to everyone that caused this moment to happen yeah and you've done your job you know so yeah that's kind of you guys feel like you get a sense of freedom as musicians that are making music of an art form which is so freeing and you know you you're you're hearing the instruments almost first as opposed to the harmonies or the lyrics no absolutely absolutely there's a freedom to it and we earned that because when we started the band if you know how many opportunities came towards us but it was with the caveat you can only do this if you bring a singer you can only do this if you bring a rapper some of the things we've declined opportunities that felt like they would have changed our lives but they'll be like you can only do that if even one of the like really really bait so not tiny desk but like another kind of tiny desk if you like they were like you know we want you to do one of the the the sessions yeah and we were like life-changing this is going to be our moment on the internet they're like but only if you bring like you have to bring one of the singers or the rapper and we were kind of like oh no but they were just feature tracks on the album this is who we are it's five brothers you know i'm saying and they said no they came back crawling later on you know what i'm saying and we did do it eventually but was it was it yeah it was yeah it was man they were like we're not having did you see i tried to do the media train thing and not say like protecting them as if well anyway yeah you know i knew it was colors yeah yeah I love colors I think it looks great same yeah me when I first started in stand up everyone was like oh the geezer team is popping up man yeah yeah yeah so I was like I think I should do the colors that would be cool like comedy oh yeah music couple of cans yeah yeah I messaged them that every time I've got yeah yeah yeah I can't lie I held a grudge for like two years you know but then as I got older I was like okay this is a proper yeah this is serious yeah yeah they take it seriously out there yeah man but you know what in their in their defense yeah the the powers that be that were there at the time they just couldn't envisage how it would work without someone fronting it like that and that was the case for so many things so much radio was just like no one's singing like we can't play is that mainly because people hadn't seen it before yeah so they couldn't grasp the concept of just having musicians play.

23:38Mo Gilligan: Does that make sense? Absolutely. I think because I think the thing with Ezra Collective, which is so precious, is we very much are in love with jazz, love that tradition, everything about it. But the media, the music, and the way that we consume things isn't in a traditional jazz way. So I love Jazz FM, but I listen more frequently to like BBC Radio 6 music, or I listen more frequently. I grew up on Choice FM. So I'm here thinking I want this jazz tune to be on Choice FM. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jazz FM's amazing and I love it but I want it to be on Choice FM and so what is happening is you're approaching these people that are kind of saying to you but the jazz corner's over there.

24:21Why are you asking us over here? That's like, do you know what I mean? Like the festival for you is Love Supreme, big up them, love that festival. Aim for Montreux Jazz Festival, love that festival. Aim to play in New Orleans, But we were kind of like, but I love Glastonbury. I want to play Glastonbury. Do you know what I mean? And I think that's where the clash happened. And that's where, musically, I don't know if we're like the very first to do a bunch of things. But I think what we are is the first to do it in a context that just didn't recognize it. And that's why it's so many like first jazz act to win Mercury Prize, first jazz group to win a bridge.

24:58You know what I mean? All of that kind of stuff.

25:00Mo Gilligan: I wanted to ask you about that. How did that feel? because I was fortunate enough to host the Brits. And seeing the behind the scenes of even just the O2, it's insane. Goodness me. Do you know what's crazy? I've gone to the O2 many a time to watch people and then luckily enough to perform myself. But when you go there for the Brits, it's like nothing you've ever seen. I'm talking like trucks of trucks. Every band's got their, you know, their whole, whatever it is, they're performing. Every dressing room is full. there's like it's it's absolutely insane i remember before i think i can't remember the year i hosted it but i remember i was i turned up to the point where this guy was like excuse me got a pass yeah that month and i was just like such in a shell and i'm like oh no like i'm hosting in it he goes all right you're gonna need a pass until one of the manding was that brother he's the host of the show yeah yeah yeah but again i was so much in a bubble because i'd never been around it and then you know they have the show and you do the red carpet you have the tables so like for you guys there did it feel like oh we can win this or did it feel like going back to the mercury prize we're like oh we're just you know we're happy to be nominated and to be in the room does that make sense no a hundred percent i think like so half of the band myself included are Christians.

26:25So we're going with that kind of like, I've prayed about it. I've got faith. So like the spirit is feeling strong. The flesh was weak. Do you know what I mean? Like I just remember, I just remembered thinking, I feel so out of my depth right now. Like, cause even, so the story of the Brits, our manager, Amy, love her, like big sister, best friend, everything about her is amazing. but she had just gone on maternity leave and the decision we took was like you know what I'll just kind of manage the band for a bit while you're out on maternity leave you know don't worry I won't crash and burn it it will be relatively simple famous last words in it and then a few days later we get nominated for a Brie Award so now this is my first day at the office is getting this over the line you know what I'm saying and then on top of all of that three days before the Brits so you know I've called up you know stylists like we need to look fly man we can't look like a small band you know what I mean like you can't have one looking hard and the others look dead like we need to look hard like cool everyone do you know what I'm saying and you know you hit up the big brands they're like who are you blah blah do you know what I'm saying so she managed to make we look so cold and then it's like red carpet we're just trying to be fly man how did you find the red carpet

27:56Mo Gilligan: it's hard it's hard bro it's intense blood it's like bad questions man you know what I've heard about the red carpet is that before you know this when you go you've got the Brit school kids there yeah yeah yeah yeah and big on the Brit school kids there because they really give you that alright yeah yeah I'm gonna be alright yeah yeah yeah they really it's a real false sense of security yeah and I think there are a bunch of them who are like I don't know you you know but I'm part of the Brits and I'm a musician or an actor so I get it but it's until you're on that red carpet and the reason why I say how was it because I was hosting I remember the first year I got to host and bro like I'm like oh Rala let me do a little press innit and my publications are like nah and I'm like bro I'm the host don't want to speak to the host do you know what I mean I said wow the most humbling thing that can really ever happen to you And I genuinely want everyone to go through this and experience it.

28:52Is being on a red carpet and someone's like, you know, let's ask you a question and that. You look at the little paper and it's like, oh, right, like, sky or do you know what I mean? BBC, like the news news. I know you're going to follow up. And they're talking to you and then they see someone they care about more. It's like, it is the most brutal, normalized thing. This is why I think everyone should go through it because if you ever need a reminder that you're not that important, I remember like... Who was in that game? I can't even remember, but like we are in a conversation. They just looked in the horizon.

29:29They basically said, move, like, hurry up, move, move. And it was like...

29:34Mo Gilligan: Well, that guy, sorry for coming. Okay. Yeah, like mid-arser. They're like, thank you so much anyway. And it's like... Brutal. It's like, and you're stood there like, rawr. and it's like you know what I mean and you're kind of begging and hoping if the person says hello to you you might get your interview back but if you don't get that hug like you know what I mean forget about it then you're done and it's it's brutal it's brutal bro and then you go and like watch the news and you see like your shoulder in like the frame and you're like that's because I was talking before innit you see the clip of the person that they wanted to speak to and you see like you you and your friends walk past yeah exactly you're almost like the frame of the picture like you're just outskirt decorations yeah oh my god so yeah you go through that you know and like I said they so on the Wednesday they had a dropout so someone dropped out performing okay so we only got asked to perform with 48 hours to get it together oh is it yeah like and it was too seismic to say no it's like this is a life changer they were like someone's dropped out can you perform last at the Brits yeah and it's like okay cool there's no budget like so you're about to minus your bank in a different kind of galaxy but you don't want to come across like thin and weak you're looking at all the production from all the other bands and artists yeah yeah and it's insane as well yeah that's when I just called pyrotechnics and stuff Uncle Ian and I was like the only idea I have is if you introduce us that will just look sick and then like Georgia could do it so we could do a tune with her as well and called up like a youth club because I wanted it to be Ezra Collective and real so they all performed with us but we yeah we managed to get that together in two days it was it was a mad week man that must have been stressful man I literally didn't sleep like from Wednesday to about Sunday morning because I was just it was a lot man and you know when a woman goes on maternity leave the one rule is you can't call them for work that's the rule but I'm looking at her number like Amy please please come and save me man I can't do this getting emails you fully don't understand and they're like I need an answer in an hour but I need to learn I need to study before I understand what you've asked me but got it together it was a precious moment so do you guys have a table there and stuff right yeah that's a whole yeah we had a table yeah yeah yeah I'm still I'm still paying that back you know you know what I mean so and then halfway through you're thinking if we don't win like we have put a lot into this blood like that's when winning becomes like almost like actually like do you know what you know when it's interesting yeah because I remember being in the same place of like I just want I was so happy to be nominated yeah but once I've got the suit and I remember I was in LA for a comedy show.

32:41Mo Gilligan: So I flew back. Now, I thought that the Brit, sorry, not the Brit, sorry, the BAFTAs would be in the evening. Okay. So I booked a hotel in Waterloo being like, you know what? I'll get back morning time, have a snooze, get changed. You know what I mean? Go to the BAFTAs. I've got back. All the guys are like, oh, cool, cool, cool. So guys are going to do a little after party as well. Like everyone's there. But bear in mind, I didn't know I was winning, but I was just like, I want to do a little party just for everyone to be there. So that's all happening in the background. But then we get there.

33:14Mo Gilligan: No, the day before, it's like, no, no, no. The events in the... Because I'd never been to it before. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So they're like, no, no, it's happening in the afternoon. Yeah. So I remember flying back, got changed. You're trying to get everything together. You're like, cool. It's like you're saying you do the press. And then it's until I was there and I was like, everyone said, hey, you've got a party, ain't it? I said, yeah, yeah, yeah. you've got my shoot. Now I'm like, I need to win. Now I actually need to win. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's mad because when the camera's on, I don't know if they, if they had that for when you guys were, you know, when you do it and the nominations are, did they have a man with a camera?

33:52Yeah, fam.

33:52Mo Gilligan: Oh, I didn't, I've never seen, so I've seen it, but I didn't know if they bring it around. So I got told, if someone told me, if bare cameras come to your table, that's because you're about to win. Is it? So like, fix, you know what I mean? So then when they were like, and the nominees are for Group of the Year, the cameras, they were just running different directions away from us. So I'm just thinking, I remember just thinking, fix your face. Do not be that person there vexed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Smile, clap, and be respect. Make mum and dad proud. Yeah, you're lost with dignity. And then they said Ezra Collective.

34:33And I'm like, but the cameras, they run away, blood. And that's when I realised it was TJ that told me this. This is why you don't listen to your younger brother. He ain't been to the Brits before. I ain't been. Why would he know that? Do you know what I mean? And so, yeah, it was definitely like a... We kind of need to win at this point because we've just... It's such a massive gamble what people put into it. But then the reward of that precious two minutes when you have, you know, what felt like the entire country listened to what you've got to say. And you get to say those thank yous with integrity and properly.

35:12And it put us just in a completely different place. I was speaking earlier about how we wanted to be in these different spaces and we grew up on these different things. Winning that Brit, it really did. And suddenly out of nowhere, this whole you need a singer, you need a rapper. It effectively disappeared overnight. And it was like, there's a collective song with a three minute trumpet solo. Yeah, man, play that on the radio, be fine. Like, and it's exciting because now when I listen to the radio, I'm even more powerful than the radio. I went to, I love going to like secondary schools, doing assemblies or whatever, and I always watch the kids play their instruments.

35:53And back in the day, it just would be all rock and indie bands. and I went to Elam, East London. Oh, yeah, man. Music and Arts. Loved that school.

36:02Mo Gilligan: Was it Bromley by Bo just round there? Exactly, exactly. I love going to that school. And they're all making jazz bands. All of their school band projects have saxophone solos. And I'm just like, I think the EZ had a 1 % small part to play in that shift in how people see music, which is really special. How do you find touring? Because I guess now you're taking your sound and your group around the world going to different countries and different places. Fun fact, I think there was a time, I think maybe 2022, I was in New York and you lot was in New York at the same time. I didn't even know because I went to, I went to a little jazz club just for like a, just for like a drink.

36:46Mo Gilligan: I remember I was, I was out there on some, I need to write this tour and find myself vibe. Like I didn't, bro. Yeah, yeah. I was just chilling in it. Yeah, you do not find yourself in New York. Do you know what I'm saying? You find other people. The worst place to find you. Yeah, you find people to join you in your foolishness. I was trying to do stuff that felt like I was fighting myself. No, no, no, no, no. I said, I said, I'm going to go running. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Central Park. Yo, New York has the same effect on me. I don't know why. It makes you feel like bettering yourself but in a non-serious way.

37:17You think like you're in a film. Yeah. Yeah, it's because it looks like sex in the city or whatever. It's like, do you know what I mean? I want a latte. I don't drink latte you know what I mean outside with your legs crossed yeah exactly reading a book you don't really get yeah New York has a similar effect

37:30Mo Gilligan: I said I want to find myself man I'm trying to run in Central Park yeah man again on a Sunday night I went to a I went to a jazz a jazz place in New York I can't remember where it was but I remember what was interesting because they like it's like a you know he's got some people playing had a glass of wine chilling by myself there was a bunch of people coming in and some of them were from the UK I was like oh Mo I was like yeah yeah cool cool cool we just went to watch Ezra Collective and I think I'm not sure but they said you lot were going to be there later I'm not sure though you might have been in was it Fat Cats?

38:03was that the bar you were? it's quite small was anyone playing like table tennis or something? or was it Smalls? it might have been I know where you are it would have been Manhattan like Greenwich Village yes yeah yeah yeah

38:15Mo Gilligan: and then some people was like no they're coming here after they're going to play I remember just waiting just like oh no did it not happen? I don't feel you lot coming, eh? You know what it is? It's like I said, man gets distracted in New York. I would have had every intention of coming and playing. Someone would have been like... In that bar like, oh yeah, the man demar here still. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have a glass of red wine. You lot never came, bro. Yeah, man. You know what? I reckon what genuinely would have happened, I may have been on my way. But you know what it is? It's like at that time, you got to remember, it's like 10.30, almost 11 o 'clock.

38:49Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would have done the gig already. Yeah, in my head, I'm like, oh, they might come. Also, I'm like, if they don't, it's all right. I don't hold any... Yeah, yeah, yeah. I bought a ticket, you know. Yeah, man. Hey, bro, I bought a ticket. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So how is touring? Because when you're taking your sound around the world, you're representing the UK, you're representing where you're from. And also, like you're saying, like your faith in some ways as well. Yeah, man. So how is it for you guys, touring? Taurin is much like a muscle, like in the gym. The more you do it, the better and stronger you get at it.

39:24When we first started touring, I started touring in my career with other musicians before Ezra Collective got to that place. But I just found it brutal. I was unsustainably touring. I just initially, it's so much fun. And then it was dealing with the exhaustion. it was like I never would have said that I was feeling homesick, but I felt like church sick, football sick. All the communities that I had in the UK, suddenly I was taken away from them. FOMO started to really affect me and things like that. But as I've grown up, I've gotten more, I've gotten better at it and better at sustaining it and handling it.

40:07But, you know, when it comes to performing, I'm just trying to be as honest as I possibly can and we are trying to be honest.

40:17Mo Gilligan: Yeah, man. I'm not trying to play a New York show that feels New York. I might reference how much I love the city and how much they mean. Maybe we'll cover a tune from, I don't know, Tribe Called Quest or whatever. But we are playing an Ezra Collective show. Hey there, it's Wayfair here. where delivery and setup are as easy as a few taps on your phone. You're relaxing in an old hammock, scrolling Wayfair's app, when you spot it, a brand new patio set. Next thing you know, Wayfair delivers it right to your patio and sets it up. Oh, you need a new grill too? All right, Wayfair's got you covered.

40:55Mo Gilligan: With Wayfair's room of choice delivery and fast expert setup on qualifying orders, life gets a little easier. Visit Wayfair.com or the Wayfair app. Wayfair, every style, every home. and you know you can join the party or you might not but you have to just be because if you try and mold yourself for where you are and try and bend and flex it's just a means to an end you have to be yourself but touring touring is actually it's tough i actually find it tough at the best of times probably the the hardest times of my life almost mentally would be on tour on the road Some of these tours that I've done, we're talking two months, you're just back to back at it.

41:42And it's like...

41:43Mo Gilligan: Because I guess I always think of like, I'm quite fortunate to just tour, it's just me and my tour manager really. So we have, he likes to go to the gym in the morning, I like to stay in my hotel as long as possible and just eat junk food. Do you know what I mean? Wavy. Yeah, bro, you know, you just sit there and you're like, let's just chuck on, chuck on like everybody hates Chris, I'm going to get a pizza, the show's at night, there's no reason for me to go anywhere in the city. Do you know what I mean? But how is it for you guys? Because I guess you have to do soundcheck and you've got your instruments, you have to carry with you and all that.

42:14Yeah.

42:15Mo Gilligan: I can't imagine what that must be like touring. Yeah, no, no, no. It was, I mean, there was one tour we often make reference to as the tour from hell, but we did seven, was it 17 gigs in 18 days. Oh my God, bruv. Like, and this is like, we had the, you see that, it's like the Central Sea and Dave song Sprinter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where they really glamorized them big vans. It's not glamorous to me. They remind me of carrying drum kits around Europe. Like, do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, there wasn't like nine yelling the Sprinter. There was nine instruments and like five, do you know what I mean?

42:54Like, it wasn't fun at all. but like yeah we would drive get to the show at around 2pm or whatever we would in the early days we'd all set up everything sound check it and then we'd you know get some dinner we didn't have any money we really had no money all the money went into just survival so you're eating like the bottom of the barrel food that eventually makes you ill when you do it for four weeks in a row and you play the show and you're giving it your all some shows 15 people turn up some shows 100 people turn up you've just got no gauge on it finish the show you're hacking your instruments up you're going to a hotel sharing with basically it's like split the band in half you three you two wake up at 6am because you've got a 10 hour drive to another city in Germany do you know what I'm saying it was brutal man it was brutal but you know you learn a lot about yourself and we became like rock solid as musicians going through that do you know

43:58Mo Gilligan: it always reminds me of it reminds me of like you ever watch remember that show like Big Brother and they might have like the week where they ration you and you've got to eat rice and beans or whatever and then they have a week where they're like oh like you get to have like a really nice meal and it's like the same thing when you're on tour where you're like oh this show and then you do one show and you're like this show is good isn't it yeah yeah you know like when you look at your yeah yeah I'm having fun. Yeah. I'm allowed to have fun, but I'm really enjoying this. For us, it's like the backstage shower is good.

44:31It's like, yo, yo, yo, like look at the shower, look at the shower. Like it works. Like it's hot. It's like, it's clean. And it's like, oh, this is,

44:40Mo Gilligan: you know, if you go to the dressing room and they're like, oh, we've got a fridge and there's some drinks in it. Yeah. Hey. Yeah. And there's stuff in it. Put some drinks in the back. Put some crisps in it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I call it the dressing room sweep. Like, yo, don't take that, bro. Don't take that. Take that. Do you know what I mean? You might want it tomorrow. Yeah. No, to be honest, and like Ezra Collective, one of the most precious, so we've been together 14 years, but we came kind of, it came into prominence in the last two to three years, but we all went through such hardship.

45:17When we get to backstage and like they put a scented candle it's small for them but it means a lot like if you've seen some of the backstages

45:26Mo Gilligan: man has been in you know when the backstage is so bad you're like I'm not staying in there no no no there's that ACDC song Long Way to the Top if you want to rock and roll but there's one line where it's like hotel and motel makes you want to cry and I'm just like yeah I've been there I've been there do you know what I mean one hotel we stayed in in San Francisco was like it was just, it was like in a homeless strip, you know, in America, they got, especially San Francisco, really bad homeless situation. And our hotel... Union Square at night and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Our hotel was next to the Salvation Army.

46:03So where the people are trying to get their food is where the hotel was. But I remembered like pulling up in the car and looking, and I didn't see that the hotel was like slightly next to it. And I remember thinking, is that where we're staying guys and like you know you know that phrase like your heart sank like man wanted to cry blood like

46:26Mo Gilligan: do you know what it is is it worth it because it's like you're on the road and the one benefit you get is when you're on the road that some people don't see is that I just want a nice decent room to sleep in a nice comfortable bed yeah no like just it's that small thing it just that can give you the best day ever it's so honestly do you know what I mean honestly yeah yeah yeah when you go you know three weeks in a row and it hasn't happened for you yet I mean we we just didn't have any P's in it so like we would we would share single rooms like the Holiday Inn in San Francisco that's where it was yeah I think there must have been well it was band plus manager like one of us was in a cupboard head and tails on the bed oh right to the side of the bed and then another friend of ours was playing in San Francisco at the same time and I was kind of like are you okay and they were like I don't even have a hotel and being like you know them good Samaritan moments yeah where you feel like Jesus is looking at you like yeah do the right thing yeah yeah yeah so I'm like you can stay with us but you can't stay with us there was five of us in a single room and then I have to break to the rest of the band guys like three other people are company like where like where do you know i mean but you know make going through all of that it just makes those wins later on that much more precious yeah they're sweeter in it exactly i feel sorry for artists sometimes that like blew up to not even too early each to their own but sometimes oh man you don't even oh you don't even know no it's so true because if you if you start touring and you're already staying at five-star hotels and you've got good venues and you know things like transport like people don't realise when you get off a plane like you got you got it's like it's just like on holiday you go to the carousel you get your stuff where's the Uber alright cool we've got to go to I don't know 0.7B it's not on this floor and that's just like the standard stuff as opposed to when I see I don't know it's like you might see a video of a celebrity that gets off a plane and there's a there's a car waiting with this man with the name yeah yeah yeah I don't have that the first time man got the name that was with gorillas I didn't even know they were allowed to do it like do you know what I mean Robby take a picture like exactly exactly you go and you hug the cab driver like thank you and then you get there and then he already knows where you're going and you don't have to have the negotiation when you get there they take your stuff out for you that is like when you tour on a level because after that coming down from that oh yeah it's like business class innit once you go on the plane and you turn and right, it's very difficult to turn left again.

49:13It's a different level. Because when the food comes and they're like, 100 % bruv. Meat or veg, and it's like, but there's other things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know what's on the other side of that curtain.

49:21Mo Gilligan: Right at the curtain? And you want to use - Give me a real plate. You just want to use the bathroom then. Yeah, exactly. Because you know that the bathroom's a bit bigger. Yeah, yeah, 100%. And that look they give you, if you even get near the curtain, like, don't you dare. Do you know what I mean? Excuse me? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's bathrooms at the end. Yeah, that accidental upgrade to business class that I once got was the most devastating thing that ever happened. Because then every other flight, you know what's on the other side. Especially if you're going to Australia or something, and you're like, what, 17 hours?

49:50Mo Gilligan: And I can lie on a bed and sleep in the air? Yeah. Come on, bro. No, I mean, but then every time it comes, we're going to Australia at the end of the year, and I'm looking at the numbers, and it's like, yeah, but it's economy again. I'm sorry. it just it can't it can't run do you know do you know what I mean like it just can't run we're not there we're just not there yet you see the price of the seat yeah it's not that deep you know yeah yeah it's amazing when you actually see the difference how you can you know actually I prefer sitting upright do you know it's better it's a better view actually you can see the window do you know what I mean do you know if you sit at the back and you're one sitting there technically it's actually better than business cars and do you know what's better than business cars when like the person next to you don't turn up, then it's like, it's basically business plus, you know what I mean?

50:39So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So in terms of your end in some ways, like, because I know you're a youth leader at Jubilee Church and stuff.

50:48Mo Gilligan: So how do you start to kind of look at your journey from, let's say a holiday inn, you know, sleeping in a room with like five people to now, you know, headlining shows. You're talking like Glaston Breeze and winning Brit Awards and Mercury Prizes and stuff. How does the work that you do as a youth leader at Jubilee Church start to kind of define what you want to do later on in your career? Yeah, that's such a wonderful question. I think for me, more than I am determined to achieve material greatness with Ezra Collette, which is something that I am trying to achieve. I look at Wembley Stadium and I'm like, I want to play that show one day.

51:29And, you know, I look at Glastonbury, I'm like, I'd love to headline the Pyramid stage. These are all aims that I have. But I think the deepest aim and ambition I really have is to give it away, is to be in a position where you can, just like the person in church, Rob Bennett, that gave me that drum kit when I was eight years old and changed my whole life. if I can just go into an assembly and give them something that makes you feel like you can do this or give the youth club something that makes them feel like you can do this that for me is the most long-lasting legacy it's like what did you give away not what did you take and what did you win but what did you give away I'm the recipient of people gave it away Gary Crosby the youth leader at Tomorrow's Warriors he could have been playing gigs every night and just kind of absorbing all of that of all of those accolades but what did he do he decided to go to the south bank at 11 a.m and play bass while fermi played drums he gave it away to me and so that's really what i'm trying to do when i'm with the kids in jubilee youth i'm just trying to give it all away every tour i go on i want to come back with a story that's going to help them i want to come back with something for them to see and be like this is why i love those moments on television because it's like like girls boys I'm exactly the same as you you went N for Grandma I went N for Grandma you go Jubilee Youth I went Jubilee Youth but look at that Glastonbury look at that audience you can do that so yeah that's kind of the legacy I want to leave and that's really where my deepest passion lies brother

53:09Mo Gilligan: it's been such a pleasure man I've really enjoyed this it's been a really good 48 hours put it that way yeah yeah yeah from when I see you on Monday night to where we are right now so I just want to thank you lot so much for one coming on the pod, but also the music that you give to the world. And I mean what I say, brother, your music has got me through some exciting times in my life, but also some tough times as well where I can just let the music play and it's playing for so long that I've like, oh, the music's still playing. It takes, it transports me to a place which I'm just like, oh, it relaxes me.

53:45Mo Gilligan: do you know what I mean and also hypes me up bro but before shows I listened to is it Ajala Ajala yeah man brother that track before a show that will get you going listen bro especially even the intro and it's like no no no I thought it was going to happen organically can we do it again one two three four but nah man it's got me through some times man so thank you for the music that you give to the world and I really pray that one we see more of it but yeah I'm so excited to see like you know like the journey and I think you know you have your core fans who have been there like you're saying from the 14 years and the people that have joined the journey along the way do you know what I mean so yeah if anyone's listening to this the latest project when's that out?

54:36Mo Gilligan: It's it's out this year it's out this year when I don't when exactly I'm not too sure but I'm just excited for it See, that's what I like about you musicians. You're a bit cryptic. They're like, what is this coming out? When does this come out? Yeah. When does this come out? This will come out in probably a week or two, maybe three. So then it's like, I don't want to mess the announcement up. Do you know what I'm saying? 2025. 2026. 2026. We'll be dancing to new EZ tracks. Okay, say less. God willing. Yeah, yeah. I don't want to set you up to me. Hey, brother, come on, man. It's September. You said...

55:10No, no, no. Yeah, that's one of the... Do you know what I mean? If it was up to me, I mean I play on the phone but yeah do you know what I'm saying but yeah no no we've been writing we're always writing and we've made some music that I'm really proud of so looking forward to just getting that all happening and we go again back on tour

55:25Mo Gilligan: alright well brother thank you so much for coming on the pod thank you for your time and I've enjoyed this brother this is your beginning middle and end so thank you so much brother appreciate you man hey what's up thank you so much for listening to the podcast today now a lot goes in to making each episode I know you hear my voice but there's a team behind the scenes who helped make it. And if you did enjoy it, I'd really, really appreciate if you could show the love to them by giving us five stars. And if you also have the time, please leave us a review. It's always appreciated and we love reading the comments.

55:55Mo Gilligan: And of course, we want to keep making it better. Thank you for listening and have a great day. Peace. Hey there, it's Wayfair here, where delivery and setup are as easy as a few taps on your phone. You're relaxing in an old hammock, scrolling Wayfair's app when you spot it. A brand new patio set. Next thing you know, Wayfair delivers it right to your patio and sets it up. Oh, you need a new grill too? Alright, Wayfair's got you covered. With Wayfair's room of choice delivery and fast experts set up on qualifying orders, life gets a little easier. Visit Wayfair.com or the Wayfair app. Wayfair, every style, every home.