From Shakespeare to Black Ops: Hammed Animashaun on Craft, Comedy & Carving Your Own Lane

0:00Mo Gilligan: Hey, what's up people? How you doing? My name is Mo Gilligan and right now you are listening to my podcast beginning, middle and end. Now today we have a truly versatile actor from award-winning turns in Shakespeare roles to fantasy TV, The Wheel of Time on Amazon, to playing the lovable K on the BBC's fantastic series Black Ops. He's here to speak about everything, from whether he goes to stateside, his love for Shakespeare, and how he may do stand-up comedy. Please welcome to the podcast, Hamid Anamashan. Are you from East London? Yeah. You're born in Whitechapel, right? Yeah. But have you lived in that part of London your whole life?

0:43Mo Gilligan: Yeah, my whole life. Oh, okay. I always ask that because sometimes someone is born in a place, but they didn't grow up there. So I'm born in King's College Hospital, which growing up, I was like, this is in Camberwell. Camberwell was in Southwark. But technically, that hospital, I think the side it's on is classed as Lambeth. I could be wrong though. I'm not too sure. Oh, okay. So then it was only until I started doing an interview and people would be like, so you're from Lambeth? And I'm like, the borough of Lambeth is huge, bro. Brixton or Kenyon. You've got to be more specific, man. Yeah. there's better people in Lombard I said I don't know about this one you know oh man and your your your cultural side your background is Nigerian as well right yes so like you see from like a young age like performance would you always say that that was your thing I think it was definitely a form of escapism so I've got two young brothers and it was just myself my brothers and my mum and my mum was working countless jobs to take care of the three of us so when she'd come home and then when I'd come home from school I would like perform for her just to cheer her up because she's had such a tough day oh wow so it would be a thing where I'd be like and I'm sure she's like I just want to go to I just want to sleep but I'm like do you know what I mean just to try not just for her as well but for my brothers as well I do like weird voices or I like recite like scenes from films that we that i'd seen or i was a i'm a massive fan of disney and have you been to disney world yet no never been but like in the films i think i think the what they did like impacted me so like lion king and um aladdin those those two films like had a huge impact on me growing up ethnic minorities love them too so i would So I would like to recite them for like my mum or for my brother sometimes.

2:45So I didn't know at the time that performance was such a big, was a huge part of like my growing up. I just did it because I just thought it was fun. Never thought for one second it was like a thing that I was meant to do.

2:57Mo Gilligan: For sure. So when you started like performing. Yeah. When was the time would you say that you really started honing into like a more of like a, I wouldn't say a craft, but almost where I know from an early age, like you know you're part of like a like a theater theater group i was yeah yeah so did you have that quite early on in terms of like knowing that this is what you really like doing because you it's like you're saying you do it at home you know but then turning it into a thing where you're now with other young people yeah it becomes like oh this is a thing now that's a really good question um it was it wasn't then so when i so i i went to this um young people's theater called Half Moon.

3:38Half Moon Young People's Theatre. It's in Lime House. Amazing building. They do amazing things for kids from toddlers to 18 now. I think for me, the reason I was going there was because I was such... I was such a nuisance in school.

3:55Mo Gilligan: Okay. And my drama teacher, who's instrumental, Fran Servi, she... It was my first parents' evening. You know when you go around and they all say, yeah he's lovely he's such a nice boy buddy however and it was just that all the way around and I could see my mum's face was going like you know getting more and more disappointed and then we got to drama and Miss Everett was like he's got so much imagination and it was that thing of like she just lit up and she was like I know that he's having trouble here send him here I had no idea you know like growing up you don't really know who you are. I feel like it's so difficult to be a young person because you're trying to figure out who you are, trying to find your identity.

4:42And Half Moon was definitely that place where because I was on stage, I was building, I was finding who I was. And like where it finally clicked was when I was, I think I was around 13, 14 and I was waiting for my friends. They were practicing music. They were playing steel drums. And I was waiting for them outside. And I remember the tutor came out and was like, who are you waiting for? his name's Karen character love him when he came out I remember he's this big figure and I'm only like 13, 14 he's like who you waiting for and I was like I'm waiting for Cordon he's like come in and I'm going in and learning this music on the steel drums and that was when it unlocked it was music really that kind of like unlocked the thing but specifically the steel drums where I was like oh so you don't just have to stand on stage and like say these words you can actually play stuff because I loved music as well growing up.

5:37Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Loved Michael Jackson, pretty much just Michael Jackson, Usher, Chris Brown, but it was like, it was music that kind of, it was like music plus performance equals. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean? And I was like, oh yeah, this is it. This is what I want to do. I want to perform. I want to be on stage doing this. So yeah, that was kind of the moment where I realised that performance and performing was the thing that I wanted to do. And then I just stuck with it. So it was steel drums all the way through school. Oh, sick. And then also doing performing arts. Yeah, yeah.

6:10And then learning that craft in school and going into college and then being like, I think this is the thing I want to do. I'm not sure, but I think this is it. This is it. But that was definitely where the click happened.

6:21Mo Gilligan: You know, it's so interesting what you say about music because I was listening to something recently and they say that when you're young, there's a frequency that music has that you it's something that you've never heard before so you're introduced to a frequency of sound that you don't know that and they say it like in terms of the brain it kind of it's like you're saying like wakes you up or like gets you on to something yeah there was something about the steel drums and about the all of us that were playing at that time where we were all learning new music. So it was like, you know, growing up those times we were listening to the thing everyone was listening to.

7:03But we never really paid attention to the sounds or anything like that. There's something incredibly universal about the steel drums. You can literally play anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we learnt Rondola Turco.

7:14Mo Gilligan: On the steel plant. Yeah, we were learning Mozart, Bach. We were learning all these songs and then we'd go home and then try and find it on like LimeWire or something and I listened to the original and we were like oh yeah that's what we're playing but it was that sort of thing and also what you were saying before like having no fear we had no fear whatsoever and we were like we want to play everything we want to learn as much as we can we can take it all just show us and we'll learn and we'll be there like even after we left school and college I joined the Metronome Steel Orchestra who I'm still with and we'd go all the way to Notting Hill so I live in East London I'd get on the I'd get on two buses to go all the way to Notting Hill and then I'd be there all night with my friends we'd just go just playing just playing playing playing and now we still do like in our mid-30s Is that your hobby outside of like what essentially like acting is your profession and that your job now in some ways but is that also like your kind of outside hobby-ing To call it a hobby kind of I kind of feel like I'm doing it a disservice but it's definitely something that I do when I'm not working.

8:23I try as much as I can. I haven't really been around as much because I'm so busy. But when I can, I do like to go over there and show my face and support them. I mean, I haven't played Notting Hill Carnival in a few years, but I'd love to go back and play again. But yeah, definitely growing up, I was there all the time. I played every carnival. My first carnival was 2007 and I played every single one after that. And then it was one of those things where it's like, yeah, this is what I'm going to do. This is what my kids are going to do. Do you know what other things were like, still drums, music.

9:00You know what I mean? Just being in the midst of that, being around that. And I joined a family over there. So I do consider them like an extended family because I learned so much about myself, but also about music. And yeah, and then it definitely plays into me being an actor as well and being comfortable on stage and all those different things. So yeah.

9:20Mo Gilligan: it's so interesting where like you you have that as something that you do which i feel like playing steel pans or steel drums yeah same thing basically yeah um where you have that where you kind of work as a team essentially because my mum used to play it back in the day and i know like you've got there's the the kind of bass yeah yeah and then you've got the ones at the front which are very like the high kind of notes and stuff yeah yeah and we used to do it in primary school actually there was a music teacher who used to teach and he used to sound like just like a vibe do you know what I mean yeah like it's the one thing that when I first went to St.

10:01Mo Gilligan: Lucia I thought would be at the airport yeah I don't know why I just thought when you get to the airport these guys are going to be there clink clink clink clink clink you know like in Hawaii where they got the ting and they give you the the settlement like I thought when I get to the Caribbean in i'm gonna hear clink clink clink clink clink clink um never happened um but i think it's so interesting how you have something where you work as a team yeah but also something where you can be super like exposed and be quite vulnerable when you're by yourself as an actor especially with stage acting because like you had one of your breakout roles um in a midsummer's Night Dream at the Bridge Theatre.

10:41Yeah.

10:42Mo Gilligan: So what's the transition like for you at that point where, you know, now you're on stage and there isn't the bass behind you, you know, or like you're saying it's the tenor at the front. Now it's like I'm on stage now. And I always say with theatre acting, I'm such a fan of the craft of theatre acting because when you're on that stage, them lights are hot and brighter than you could ever imagine. but then knowing that like it's so quiet in the UK they're so respectful do you know what I mean I'm not too sure everywhere else but I know in the UK it's a silent and it's like we're all looking at you at this point but knowing that someone's phone going off can fuck up the whole scene do you know what I mean but also you've got to kind of play to that a little bit it could be a deep a deep monologue you're having so how was the the transition then like to stage at like quite a young age for you I've always felt comfortable on the stage I think theatre is one of those things where I've always, I've just been forever fascinated by it.

11:43To watch an ensemble of people put on a production and then find out that they do it eight times a week.

11:52Mo Gilligan: Yeah. You kind of go, that's crazy. You know, some of the things that I've seen, I literally go, there's no way you do that eight times a week. Yeah. And I think I just, I hold it at such a high regard. I've got so much respect for stage actors because it's just not an easy thing. And I've always wanted to be that person that when people, I think inadvertently, when they're like, I want to be that guy that's like, oh yeah, that's the stage guy. Because I love the theatre, I do. And I've always said, if theatre paid like TV and film, I'd do stage forever. because there's nothing beats it I mean you can attest like when you're on stage it must be the same thing and you're in front of all these people and you've got to hit those punchlines and you've got to you've got to tell these stories and you know and like I don't know how do you feel like when a phone goes off yeah I had a show on Monday and a woman just was on the phone talking at full volume and I'm looking at her like I'm like you don't see this as a fucking comedy show like who speaks at full like I'm always used to it going left anyway.

13:05Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, the things that can sometimes throw me off is when it's like, I get you need to answer your phone. Yeah. I know it's going to go off. But for you to be like, the woman, yeah, no, no, no, he's on stage now. Huh? Okay. No, I can't talk right now. I'm like, you know you can go out. Yeah, yeah. But I think, I'm fortunate enough to know that I have the mic. I can stop this. I can literally press pause and be like, is everything all right on the phone which I've done I was like is everything alright and she was like yeah my son he needs a cab I said alright so fuck the show is what you're saying yeah like but like I know I can do that with humour and it can disarm it and I don't want to embarrass this person but it is the elephant in the room right now I could have done the same with Miss I'm Night's Dream the part that I played gave me the freedom to be able to like chat to the audience so if something was happening I think there was one I think there was one performance where a couple was having an argument and I because it was fully immersive so you had people sat all around you and then you had like probably like six, seven hundred people stood and then they were just like there and I was doing stuff and then they were there and I kind of just went like you know you kind of just like acknowledge them and it's like we all good?

14:18You could just the part gave me the freedom and I think the production gave me the freedom to be I guess in a way you know no disrespect like some form of stand up comedian because I could I could talk to the audience and be like what are you doing? Why are you doing that? And that was fun to be able to like stretch those comedic

14:40Mo Gilligan: muscles and attempt it. And most nights didn't work. Do you know what I mean? And I just sticked with the script and I was like don't try and improv because it's not for you now. Don't do that. Don't do that. But then other nights I was feeling myself and I would try it and then it and then it would go down and I'd be like oh okay maybe I'll try that again tomorrow. And that was really cool was just finding new ways to interact with the audience with that character and in that production. Because it was so immersive, the audience were involved the whole time. So it never once felt like I was alone, especially with the company of actors that I was working with.

15:16They were incredible. So there was not one moment where I ever felt alone. I felt so safe. Even when I was on stage by myself doing, you know, huge Shakespearean speeches, I never felt like, oh. It only would ever happen just before I'd go on. I'd have a little panic attack and go, I can't do it.

15:38Mo Gilligan: Do you get nervous before? Yeah. What kind of nerves are you? Are you like, because I've got some friends and people I know, they do shadow boxing, some people do press-ups. Some people are probably too calm. I like to have my friends around me, if I can, before a show, and then it's ultra, because it sets me up to be like, this is very natural. And what I'm going to do is what I've done before and I need to be around people that make me feel this is a normal thing I'm doing. But when I jump out, it's going to be absolutely insane. But it brings me very grounded, if that makes sense. Yeah, for sure.

16:15No, with Dream, we would like dance around backstage and like play music. I mean, there's videos. I've got videos on my Instagram of us like dancing to Michael Jackson and just like marching around and being silly just before we go on. And I think it depends on the type of show that you're doing. I did a play earlier this year at the Donmar Warehouse where it was very wordy for me. And my character had a lot to say. And his emotional journey in the play is very up and down. And also, it was a while since I'd been on stage with that sort of play, that type of character. and um i got it was one of the first times in my career where i got really nervous before like really really nervous i put a lot of pressure on myself in that production specifically in dream it was just fun i was just having i was just having so much fun it was that part has always been my dream the dream role to play for me and i didn't realize that the the magnitude of it until afterwards and then um going forward in my career and then doing this play early this year i was like I think I put a lot of pressure on myself no one else did the director was like what's your problem yeah I was like I don't know I just I just want to do a good job he's like don't worry you're fine I'll never forget that first preview I was just like in the corner it's like this how many are you ready to go yeah yeah yeah yeah and I was sweating like standing completely still

17:44Mo Gilligan: and I was buckets and I go on look like I've been in the shower in my world of doing stand-up we don't have a preview you just do the show and then you get the review afterwards but like I know in the world of acting especially stage you see that when you're doing those those previews and you've got and sometimes I've been invited to some of those shows and I sit there and I'm like oh man I can't imagine how nerve wracking this is for people seeing something the first time where yes we've rehearsed it but we've not really got to flex our muscles you know I'm very fortunate enough that if I go on stage by the time there's you know my manager will say oh this person's coming in to review the show it's like months by that time and I'm like okay I know they're in the house today I'm going to put on a really good show but I have that luxury a little bit so what's it like on the side of of the actor side do you know what if I'm honest I personally I've never thought about it because for me a preview is a chance to do the show all the way through with lights, sound, costume, everything's there properly.

18:55I mean, we've done run-throughs before and you might have had an invited audience, like friends or family or whatever. But the first preview is literally a real chance with a real audience who've never seen it before to just see what we've done so far. Right? So I've never... I've never really thought about who we might be in or... I think it's just a chance for us just to go through it. Let's just get through it. And if you can get through it, that's the job done. Do you know what I mean? Because then it gives us like five or six more performances to really work on what needs to change and what needs to be different, blah, blah, blah.

19:31And, you know, how do we get to that bit quicker? How do we slow this bit down? So it's more for us as a group of creatives just to really fine tune it. I think that's a, you know, I guess that's the advantage. Whereas you have to just go straight on. Yeah, you go in, yeah. But I guess, you know, for like, when you're about to do like a big show and stuff, before then you do like a...

19:57Mo Gilligan: Oh, yeah, yeah. So I had the pleasure of doing like the work in progress shows. Yeah, so I guess those would be like previews, wouldn't they? Yeah. In a sense, because then you do it... Yeah, kind of, yeah. Yeah. I guess the luxury I have with the work in progress is though, is that I tell my audience some of this will work, some of it won't. Yeah. And I think they know they're on board with that. Yeah. Which I guess is what's a little bit different I guess for I guess stage because you know once you bought your wine that cost six pounds and the peanuts and you're sitting there and then to see something obviously we won't know if someone's got the line wrong but if you see anything go wrong it's almost like I think that's the best bit about theatre though is it?

20:38yeah I love it really? yeah I love it when things go wrong

20:41Mo Gilligan: I feel so nervous you know if I see something go wrong I'm like oh rough hey is my man alright? oh no as long as no one's hurt it's cool but like when things like if you're if there's people coming to the first preview they're coming to see something very very rough oh okay fair enough that's what I've always said so I'm like guys don't so all of us will be like guys don't worry yeah if something goes wrong it's cool they know it's the first preview okay okay fair enough do you know what I mean ah okay I'm mixing it with is it the press night press night yeah press night yeah yeah yeah it's where everyone's like oh so-and-so's in oh so-and-so's in and it's like don't worry about that don't worry about that oh no the door didn't come down and then it's like don't worry just keep going oh no I forgot my line and then they're staring at you like what's my line what's my line go on keep going have you ever been on stage and seen someone in the audience like who's worked that you like and you're like oh my god that person's in yes like who's been that person I think there was one time when there was a there was a director in for Dealer's Choice came in and I was like ooh he's just done Macbeth with David Tennant why is he coming to see this okay alright is that hard as an actor because are you thinking like he might be scouting but he might just be also be watching yeah do you know what I mean so you kind of you got to get out of your head you just got to do the job man or like when you see an actor or when you see like an actor in like a you know big time and you kind of go I remember when I did Barbershop Chronicles and I looked and it was in the round and I looked and I saw Letitia Wright and I went mm-hmm mm-hmm and then and there was another night where Damson Idris was in and I went uh-huh you just gotta get out of your own way and just do it because like but then I read the oh yeah and Idris Elba came to see Barbershop Chronicles when Idris Elba came yeah that's when I was like I don't get starstruck really yeah but the times when I spoke to him yeah the first time I ever spoke I couldn't talk he's mad cool Idris I couldn't talk he came up to me oh man I went no words came out of my mouth so when I saw him in the audience I just went oh and he was in with his wife and I was like oh okay, just don't forget your lines.

23:17Just don't forget your lines and you'll be all right. Just make sure you hit your marks and don't forget your lines. And I think that show was quite crazy and it went down pretty well.

23:25Mo Gilligan: But yeah, you just got to get out of your way. Do you think that's an actor to actor thing though? Knowing that when you're performing it's like an actor you admire and you're like, oh, he knows this world. So if I fumble a line, he knows as an actor like, oh, he fumbled that one. Because you know, yeah, if you especially if you see another actor who does stages well it doesn't matter really but you just know you just know it's like oh that went wrong alright well write that down in your head it's like oh it's fine it's just how they pick it up because people people drop lines all the time I dry all the time do you know what I mean I think it happens more as I get older but it happens it's just about how you get around it yeah yeah that's what that's what you know I think that's what makes you like a performer or whatever it's just how you get out of your way yeah yeah out of your own way because you know you could be nervous you can be all these things but it's about how you just get to the other side that's what that's what you know builds you where you are right now in terms of your career of you know you're in a high profile show that you know Black Ops and the success it had very early on yeah do you know what I mean of getting nominated for BAFTAs and stuff like this.

24:45Mo Gilligan: And you find yourself now in rooms with the same people that have watched you, not even on screen, but also on stage. How do you navigate some of those spaces now where I remember watching you do the interview for when Black Ops first came out and it had a press person asking questions and stuff. And you have a very natural ability to be funny. It's very natural to you. Do you know what I mean? Oh, cheers. So like seeing you on screen to then when you was being interviewed, like it was just, I think there was a question. I can't remember the question, but it was along the lines of like, you know, it was like, oh, you know, what do you want to get out of this or something?

25:34Mo Gilligan: I can't remember too tough. And it was so funny because you say, yeah, I'm trying to get paid. You know, it was something like that. But it was so funny because it felt like, you know, in those moments where, you know, and I remember there was press there and stuff. Yeah. It can just really disarm the situation in a sense of like, I know we're all here to do the reviews and you've got actors coming in, like first opinions and stuff, where it just, you really set the room at ease in a sense of like, oh, oh yeah, let's all loosen up, man. Yeah. You know, because I know what it's like when you're in the room and it's tense and it's like so tell us you know what made you come up with the thing and you're like oh man can we talk about some fun stuff yeah so what was it like backstage and vibing and stuff but you have a very cool natural ability to be funny and like whether that and that translate on screen and off screen so what's it like now being in you know situations where you're like oh we're on the red carpet now and this is like i'm doing tv like you know as me you know um how are you how How are you navigating this world now?

26:39I'm not going to lie to you. I don't go to them too. Why not? No. You do, man. Not really. You went to the BAFTAs, no? I went to the BAFTAs because I was nominated.

26:47Mo Gilligan: Yeah. But still, you was there though. I was there. And I was like, where's the food, man?

26:57Mo Gilligan: Were you there that year? Were you there 2024? 2024. I don't think you were. I wasn't there that year. I was, I was, I say I meant to come, but I was on tour. Okay. but you know right you've been to more of them than I have right you sitting there when your categories come and gone right so then you're like alright cool so I got it yeah

27:24and then you gotta wait right so obviously now when my category come and then Mawaan got it well deserved because he's wicked right and I loved that show. So I'm now sat, my category's gone now, so now I'm like... Did they have the camera on you? They had the camera on me, so I had to stay like,

27:47Mo Gilligan: I had to stay like that until they left. When it left, I went, I'm hungry now, man. So hold on, when they was doing your category, they come with a camera, innit? So what was going through your mind then? Because I've been there, I've been there, you know? Yeah, I love you. When the camera came out, I was like, okay, cool, the camera's there. Because this is my first time at a major awards. That whole experience was surreal to me. That whole experience was surreal. Because I was just like, for me, Black Ops was one of those jobs where I was working with people I hugely admire. AK, Bemi, those guys I've watched and been like, I want to work with them one day.

28:30Mo Gilligan: and so when I got the opportunity to do it every day it never felt like work I was having the time of my life so to get that accolade that recognition I was like mind blown even the RTS nomination I was like what is happening yeah yeah so then cut to the BAFTAs the actual day and then my car comes and then the then the guy came like ninjas bro yeah yeah yeah ninjas bro I was like where did you come from and he's there bang and I was like oh okay just look cool so I'm just sat there and then obviously Mawaan gets up and he goes down and you think you was going to win when the camera comes no okay see I thought I was going to win now first time I went there yeah so they had what's his name David Schwimmer yeah so he was on the big nasty show just a few months before yeah yeah so I'm sitting there at the link it makes sense he's given out the award I met him before of course when he come with a camera now I'm like yeah I'm like here we go this is it bruv in my head I'm starting imagining me I'm like this is it this is the start it's going to take off from today yeah there's bare people that obviously didn't know me there but I was like you're going to know me you know what's when I go downstairs I'm looking at the route I'm like what's the fastest route some people went that way but truthfully I might go this way and then I'll get on the stage quicker quicker yeah yeah ah brother so you said you didn't think you was going to win no I didn't think I was going to win no okay no no no so I didn't think I was going to win the RTS award and I did and I didn't write a speech.

30:00So I kind of just went up there and also I was quite, I had a bit of champagne.

30:04Mo Gilligan: That was vibe-y though. The RTS one is a vibe-y one still. In the round, and the groving is, come on, man. So I went up there and I was like, yes, yo, this is good. I think I thanked everyone that was at the table and then I was like, yeah, this one's for my teacher. And I walked off. So then, obviously for the BAFTAs now, they were like, you gotta write a speech just in case I was like I ain't gonna win man like not because I didn't believe in myself I just thought like the nomination's enough for me do you know what I mean like that's crazy if I win that'll be a bonus but it's not gonna happen so then when they didn't call my name they called Moan and then I was like perfect he deserves that because just by talking to him about the show and everything he's had to go through to get the show made and da da da like he's worked so hard on that and I was like Yeah.

30:58Mo Gilligan: He's been around for a time. I remember. Did you stand up comedy? I know. And I remember, I don't think he even remembers this, but it was very early in my career when I was auditioning for a pilot for BBC Three and he was there. We were both going up for the same role. Oh, easy. And I remember we sat down in a room very similar to this, waiting to go in. And we were chatting. And I remember going into the room thinking, he's really cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, if I don't get it, he gets it, bless. I don't think he even remembers this. What was the pilot for? Did it ever come out? It never came out.

31:32It never came out. I ended up doing it, but it was one of those things where, again, it was so much fun. And you know, you hope that it comes out wherever. But it was very early in my career. But I remember meeting him at the chemistry. I remember thinking, oh, he's so cool. So then fast forward. I was just so happy for him.

31:49Mo Gilligan: I was so happy for him. But then the guy was still there. He didn't leave. You're like me, man. He didn't leave. and then do you know what's bad as well he was there for time because then the next one was Bemi's category so he stayed there because Bemi was sat behind me so then he kind of just went like that and then when Bemi went down the camera went back here so then I was like he's a skit skit skit friend's reaction yeah they don't look at you either no they're just alright brother man it's crazy but yeah that whole experience was surreal surreal but I enjoyed it but I was hungry the whole time alright brother it's so do you know what I think I realised the first time I ever went to the award show I'd never been to no I'm lying actually I did go to an award show before but then it's like it's BAFTA isn't it yeah it's just like rah I've got to make sure one I look good on the red carpet yeah the first time I think I met I met Lenny Henry and I'd never met him before and I met Attenham Deck as well so in that setting I was like that was my that was my joy that day yeah yeah I said rah I met Attenham Deck you know and he was so cool I was like I was like, bro, you might not have a dick.

32:57Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you know when you meet people, you're like, I don't know what to say. That's how I felt when I saw Trevor McDonald. Oh, you met him? He was sat like two rows above me and I looked up and I went, oh man. I went, yeah, mama, I made it. Do you know that feeling? It was like, I'm sharing the room. Did you say anything to him? I couldn't. I was too scared. But he's like one of the senior, older, oldies. Yeah, yeah. So you can't like, you can't get like, hey, hey, hey, Mr. McDonald, but like Trebs yeah I'm such a man I can't go screaming in his face I was like no no let me just admire him from afar but it was just the fact that I'm just sharing a room with all these people people that I watched on TV growing up people you know even some of my friends were in there and I was just like this is crazy this is a feeling that you just it's one of those things you just want to bottle up and sell because you can't replicate that do you know what I mean and also my wife was there so I had my wife there and my agent me and my agent we've been together since the beginning of my career do you know what I mean when you get them self tapes you've got to do in 24 hours no but I rate it all the same but it was just the fact that those like those two people were there do you know what I mean I was just like yo this is crazy if you could bottle that up and sell that you'd be a millionaire yeah it was that sort of feeling it's definitely a feeling of like I think once you you're able to go to any of those things and you're nominated and you're like, rah, like I'm part of history that I'm even in this room, but also that I'm nominated.

34:32Mo Gilligan: And then you sit there and you're just like, look at the people that I'm in a room with for this moment and what I'm witnessing. It's like, I always sit there and I'm like, if people could buy their way into this, like people would buy and just be like, I will spend whatever just to be here and put on the gown and everything else. And you realise you're like, That's how much this is a privilege. I didn't understand it until I got to go. Royal Festival Hall, you've got people outside. It's always on a sunny day. I don't know how they do it. I know. Every time it's sunny, you know. Bro, God is good, man.

35:05Mo Gilligan: Yeah, every time the sun comes out. What was it like for you also as well, seeing your friends win and also being in a room with your friends at that moment? Crazy. I joke about how long the ceremony is. But like, honestly, when you look to the side and then like, friends that you've known for years, they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean? All of us in our tuxes and gowns. Yeah, yeah. And all of us like, yo, what are you going to do after? You're going to go, we're going to the after party. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, it's weirdly amazing. Because it's like, there was a time when we weren't in these rooms.

35:46100%. Do you know what I mean? And we will be looking from afar. like I remember the BAFTAs being there and like walking past on the South Bank just like walking past being like oh what's going on over there no idea do you know what I mean I remember I remember those times do you know what I mean and so to be in now to be there it was crazy man crazy it's not something that I'll forget in a hurry

36:11Mo Gilligan: but also it's a very it's a very very small part of what we do do you know what I mean everything we do is like in the studio or in the rehearsals. Locations when it's cold and you've got to do another take and you ever had times where you're filming and you're fighting for sunlight come on guys we've got to film it the sun's going we've got 10 minutes and it's like and it's so that being as much as it's great being in those rooms it's not everything do you know what I mean like it isn't the best times I have is when I'm on set or when I'm on stage and I'm you know making a whole making audiences laugh or trying to make the crew laugh or whatever do you know what I'm saying like you know working with Bemi me and Bemi working on black ops together is just a joy because we're just having a laugh man yeah and then we're all all of us the crew as well we're just having a laugh we just get on and we just do the job and that's the that's the that's what I enjoy the most it really makes you excited to go to work when you know you're doing something and there is camera people or whatever tour managers or people that put up lights and you sit there and you're like right boy we're all in this together you know everyone has to play a part in this and then to be like you know there's times where I'd sit with someone and they say oh like mate I really like your stuff man yeah I told my mate I was working with you and I'm like right you man build the set I didn't think you lot really were that interesting and he's like no man do you want to get a picture?

37:41Mo Gilligan: yeah bruv cool man yeah so like when you're filming black ops yeah and what i really liked about black ops it felt like our comedy in a sense of it's it's showing different facets i think to what we're able to do in our culture where you know yes we have i know crime dramas or whatever you know i mean that you know people that can identify fight with us and stuff but also seeing comedies now in those spaces that look high end and feel high end i think that was the most thing that i was so pleased to see like not that i don't always think that you know you can make things lo-fi as well in it but i also feel like you know going to that screening that time in soho and watching black ops for the first time and not really having much of an idea of what it was about i remember akengi was telling me that he was he's i'm working on this thing but you know you don't want to be like so tell me the script let's go page one and two i'm like oh sick man wicked man he's like yeah almost done it and we filmed and everything so then getting to see it i sat there and i was like oh this is cold man because it was filmed in such a high-end way yeah but also yeah it just had like a chemistry amongst the actors that you sit there and you're like yeah you can't just create this overnight it just really felt like something you'd watch and you're really immersed by that you're acting performances what was that process like for you on being now because you're on screen as opposed to stage yeah I guess the you know the initial reaction must feel a bit different when you know you're on stage and there is someone talking but you can say something you can get the laugh yeah whereas on screen it's like cool all right and cut again to the point we've done it five times you're like I mean how was that now for you like to be on screen?

39:37In series one, that whole experience of, first of all, AK asked me to read the script to then shoot in it. I always thought I was a placement for somebody else. So I always thought, oh, I'm just helping them out because they're going to find somebody else who's going to do it because there's going to be somebody. So for me, I was just like, no way they want me to do it. I had no idea until AK was like, no, we want you

40:04Mo Gilligan: do it? Do you want to do it? And I was like, no, yeah, I do. I do. I was just making, I just didn't know. So I was kind of like on cloud nine in series one. I was just like, yo, I can't believe I'm here. And then for series two, I really wanted to be involved in not just on set, but behind the scenes as well, because I want to make my own stuff one day. and so for me I was much I was in on set but also having the chats where I was like how does that work and what do you do when you do this and how do you I was asking more questions this time rather than being just blissfully like this is amazing and it's always amazing do you know what I mean like shooting series 2 was again so much fun but I was asking a lot more questions this time because I want to be learned in this world.

40:58Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I think I was asking a lot more questions and I was hanging around

41:02Mo Gilligan: a little bit more. I think I was like... It's so important. Yeah. When you start asking those questions of like, okay, well, let's know how this works. Yeah, exactly. Because if I get into this space, I want to know that, okay, I know what you're doing, isn't it? Exactly. Cool, because you see a lot of things happening, but you're like, so what does that person do, man? That was me when I was shooting, I was on a show called The Wheel of Time and that was me when I was doing that like it was so big it was an Amazon massive show and I'm coming in young sort of I have no idea what's happening there's like 200 people on set and I'm like and everyone's got a job no one's doing the same thing so I was just like what is going on but it's it's like a sort of weird sort of what's the word nucleus like everyone everyone's just moving in like in the same like synergy yeah it was just doing everything together it's just flowing so naturally and I had no idea what anyone was doing all I knew was like that's the director and that's the DOP that's it the manager and assistant manager do you know what I mean that's all I knew so then so for me now because I want to again because I want to make my own stuff I want to know what everyone's doing I want to know what everyone's doing so I was just asking a lot more questions this time so So when you say you want to make your own stuff, what is that stuff that you want to make?

42:27Mo Gilligan: Because I'm intrigued to know as an actor where, you know, a lot of actors, they like being on the screen. Yeah. But a lot of them will transition behind the screen in director roles or producer roles. So where do you start seeing, like, yourself in that kind of mould? I feel like eventually I might start going into the director sort of realm, especially when it comes to the theatre. I directed a production or co-directed a production of Miss Someone That's Dream in Prague with the Prague Shakespeare Company a few years ago. And that was an incredible experience. that was so we did it outside in the gardens of Prague Castle and that was you know that was an experience I'll never forget so I feel like that's kind of the realm in which I'll be going later directing for sure especially with specifically with stage you've got the man named in Prague you know just doing Shakespeare yeah hey that sort of happened again that was like completely by accident one of the cast one of my castmates in the show Wheel of Time we were shooting out there and he's one of the he's the artistic director of Prair Shakespeare Company and he had seen my production of Miss Summer Night's Dream at the bridge so he was like oh do you want to do you want to direct the production I went yeah I'm not saying no to that and then it just so happened and I didn't know I thought it was going to be the theatre I was like no no no it's going to be outside I was like okay cool yeah yeah yeah yeah Prair Castle yeah and the Royal Gardens cool it was just getting bigger and bigger and bigger but yeah that was so yeah directing definitely and then with TV and film I think I mean writing is I've always been writing whether it's like on my phone or like weird like ideas that maybe I'm in the back of an Uber I'm like what if do you know what I mean I don't know it just starts just like what if and then question mark and it just starts from there so what if there was a world of foxes you didn't know about and they got their own community underground and it's like his own little thing you tell your brethren he's like brother what do you think about that and he go yeah you know what no no do your thing innit yeah and then you walk away and be like oh we need to we need to help him man intervention I just used to hey let's do a meeting bro let's go and sort a house we need to chat to him man and then you go and sort a house hey guys what's going on yeah you find you find yourself cutting the burger in half you're like oh what are you saying bro no no no we're just writing bro your brother's got a coffee you're like he didn't get no writing no yeah right no I've always used to do that like short stories when I was younger do you know what I mean so writing I've always been really interested in writing so yeah but I think more specifically it would probably be directing as an actor how hard is it to that stay like focused because I, the reason why I ask because there is that thing with acting where, you know, you, you can, you can film something in, I don't know, now and it might come in two years time.

45:50Mo Gilligan: Yeah. I remember seeing Samson KO in a festival and this would have been, what were you in 2025, 2022 maybe. And I was like, I have things, man. He's like, yeah, no, I'm shooting this film with Damps and Idris. And it's about like formula one. and we've been going all around the world and stuff. And I was like, oh, sick, when's it come out? And he's like, oh, 2025. And I'm sitting in that 2025. And like that film only came out this year, F1. And I can't imagine what that must be like as an actor where you've done the thing, you've got paid for it. But it's that, it's the waiting time. It's the limbo time that it's, you know, it's knowing that, okay, cool.

46:31Mo Gilligan: I've got the self tape coming for the thing. or you're like, oh, there's this and they want to meet me for the project. How hard is that for an actor? Because I guess for us who watch your stuff, we sit there and we're like, oh, that's great, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I guess it must give the perception of like, oh, man, you're doing great, man. Your thing just came out. You're like, bro, that came out, we've done that two, three years ago. Like, I'm waiting for the next job. I'm doing the promo so I can get the next job. Do you know what I mean? How hard is that for actors and for yourself? I found it quite hard at the beginning.

47:06I remember when I shot a film back in 20... I want to say 2017. And it came out a year later. And I remember the whole year, I was like... There's this film coming out, man. I was just like, I want this film to come out. I want to see it. Do you know what I mean? And I did ADR and I'd see little bits, but I never saw it in its entirety until the premiere. And I struggled with that because I was like, and then no one knows that I've done it.

47:35Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I struggled with that premise. I was like, why can't I tell people? I want to tell people. And I really struggled with that. But I think it was just understanding that my job has finished, but there are many other people's jobs that I just started. Okay. So like the editing, all that stuff. Do you know what I mean? So it was respecting the process. And I didn't do that before. Yeah. When I was younger, I didn't do that. So it was about knowing that my part in this project has come to an end. but then other people are about to take on the reins to make it better. Do you know what I mean?

48:08Because as an actor, I can only do so much, especially when it comes with screen. I can only do so much. But then once I had to learn how to let it go and let other artists and other creatives do their part to elevate it. Do you know what I mean? With theatre, it's about creating something in the room together in real time and then performing it as a company. that's you know and there's no there's no like one person not one person can make this thing i think it was just about respecting the process for me okay for sure because i struggled with the um waiting but i think as i've gotten older once i've done something i just move on to the next project respectfully i always you know always think back and but like it's about bro i need to eat man yeah so it's like it's about moving on to the next project and and trying to continue and do other things and other passion projects that you might have or anything like that so i think when i was younger and and that happened it was like i was just like what's going on why

49:14Mo Gilligan: can't why can't you come out tomorrow yeah sort of thing yeah yeah yeah it doesn't work that way do you know i mean other people have got stuff to do to elevate it yeah um and that's what you know the arts are about I always worry for actors in the sense of knowing that if you play the long game of saying well I just want to do the screen stuff because you've seen that thing but then it's also knowing that if I played a long game I also have to wait for the phone to ring or I need to go to the place to find the thing and whenever I'd go to LA there's always a lot of other actors that are out there predominantly a lot of black British actors in terms of the people that I connect with out there and you know I'd ask them and I'd say oh you know how you find that here and they're like yeah you know trying to whether they might be trying to find an agent or you go for auditions and stuff and like knowing that you have to uncomfortably take your place yourself to a place to find the work as well I guess because of the other outcomes of actors who were thriving in a place how do you see that for yourself whether that is being able to hone in on your craft here, have your ideas listened to and be on screen here but also look at that side of the pond where you've got like Letitia Wright and Idris Elba who transcended and went over across that side and they're doing Fast and Furious and the Wires or, you know, Marvel films.

50:50Mo Gilligan: What I'm saying is how hard is it to keep one eye on the thing that's there and be in the space of the stage and say, oh, you know, I'll go to Prague and this is an opportunity or say, well, I played a long game and I could go to LA for a month and do meetings, but also knowing that I don't know if anything's going to come out of it. Yeah, that's a really good question, man. I say this to my wife. I say this to my wife a lot where she knows she knows this I've I've been saying that I want to be the one black British actor that doesn't go over yeah so for a long time I just refused yeah and I'm like I'm not doing it I'm not going there I'm staying here why like and no disrespect to any others that I've gone over like we should do you know what I mean if there's like you know if there's space there and there is space there, we should go over 100%.

51:53But I'm quite stubborn. So I was just like, I'm not doing it. And I remember my agent was like, what do you think about maybe getting... I was like, nope, not doing it. Not yet.

52:03Mo Gilligan: Yeah. Not yet. Because I want to build my foundation here. We shouldn't... We shouldn't... There is space here. I believe there is space here. you know it's just about i don't know and i don't know how because obviously the industry changes and it gets harder it gets easier than it gets harder than it's like do you know i mean but it's like i feel like it's about believing in yourself and believing that it's possible you know i've been doing this for a long time that's that's not to say that i'm an expert i'm not i'm still learning i'm learning every day but it's about believing that i belong here do you know what I mean I shouldn't have to go overseas for my home to know who I am does that make sense yeah yeah yeah of course so and I always and the thing is I love looking over and seeing what people are doing over there I think it's amazing and I think long may it continue when I see people like Damson Idris and Letitia Wright and John Boyega, Malachi Kirby when I see all these people thrive I'm like yeah we should do you know what I mean we should Cynthia I remember watching Cynthia she did a Shakespeare trilogy and a friend of mine Sheila Atim was in it as well Shiloh Koch and I see all these amazing black women do these shows and then see them thrive and I'm like yeah yeah because they deserve it but me personally I'm like never I used to be like never not going over there no and the thing is for me it's like when it feels right for me and it's like when it feels right then then maybe I'll take that step but until I feel that I've made my mark here as an actor then I'll feel much more comfortable being like okay I'll make that step over because I know it's going to be hard over there because again because I'll be starting anew yeah I'll be I'll be the new guy I don't mind being a new guy not at all I'm not afraid of hard work but I feel like the hard work is like staying staying here and letting them know who you are here yeah yeah and then once you go over there then it's like yeah because you know does that make sense yeah no massively so yeah I think the whole that whole concept of going over the pond for me i've always just like said no to it not because i don't not because i like i've got anything against i've got nothing against it i'd love to go over there one day but when i guess it's just doing it like here yeah when i feel like it's right and when i feel like i've made and i don't know what that is i i don't know what that is do you have a fear that sometimes you could be you know doing something here that is like almost keeping you here but the more successful it is here then there's that like hey man we want you to be in this thing over here and one thing I always notice when they make stuff in the States you know it's not a TV drama of four maybe five episodes it is yeah no no we're doing 12 13 14 you're like what?

55:17Mo Gilligan: and then again if you sit there and you're like okay let's do the calculations you're like alright that's life changing yeah do you ever fear that sometimes that with you putting all your eggs here in one basket there might be someone who's having a look and being like I see what you've done there bring that here in the midst of when your thing can get going do you know what I mean I do I do have a little fear but I've got I've got to stay true to my to my choice yeah right so it's like I the answer is yes I do have a little fear but I can't be I can't be swayed by that I can't allow that to to then you know sway or disrupt what i'm trying to accomplish here um there's there's always been a little part of me that's been like oh am i am i missing an opportunity by going over there yeah but i don't think i have because all the things that have happened to me have happened and it's been amazing do you know i mean so it's like of course i would never see that as a you know a mistake or or anything like that i feel like it's it's it's happened because it's supposed to happen yeah so i feel like so i feel that's how i feel about going over there when it's supposed to happen it will just happen yeah i just don't know when that will be that will be you you know as an actor also you're very you're very funny you have a naturalness to be funny which is and do you ever look at like doing things outside of the comfort zone of just acting and looking at stand-up because again watching you on black ops you're very funny which is a natural funniness it didn't feel like that stuff felt scripted if that makes sense yeah um but also it's like seeing you in the room when they're asking questions you're also very funny naturally so is there i guess for you like ways where you're like i want to do stuff outside my box whether that would be stand-up comedy one day do you know what i mean or you know have the script that is like i'm playing the funny character like you know the office for example yeah you know um and then being in those roles that you're like this is a very funny role and i know that you can get typecast in that role but you can also open up a bunch of other opportunities um do you ever look at stuff outside of your realm um yes yes and then I go oh no yeah yeah I get scared stand up comedy people ask me all the time people say to me all the time you should do stand up you know you should do stand up and then I'm like nah why not too scary I find that it's terrifying is it is it the thought of making people laugh though no I'll tell you a quick story I remember so there was I had a friend back in college he was like I'm going to be a comedian.

58:15And I was like, yeah, okay. Sounds good, man. And then he was like, no, I'm going to be the next big one. I was like, no, no, I believe you. And then he was like, oh, I'm going to do a gig at this thing. You should come and watch me do it. And I was like, yeah, I'll come. No, of course, I'm going to come support you. And then I watched and I went. And then the host was like, oh, next person's come out. So-and-so. And then he came on and he's like, hey, everybody, how you doing? And then something happened in the room. that I was so unfortunate because when he went on and went, hey guys, how you doing?

58:51Like, no one said anything. And then that's when I went, oh. Like, no one heckled him. Like, no one said nothing. And then I kind of just went, oh no. And then he, you know when someone starts backtracking? So he went, hey guys, how you doing? And I went,

59:11bosses man. and I was like oh no

59:20and then it was one of those things where he kind of you saw the fear the fear came across his face and then he kind of he did this thing where he went he stepped back and then he went buses man and then literally I heard one person go shit man

59:41and then that's when was a rap and I was like listen he hasn't even started yet and I think it's because the fear came across his face like that fear and I was like I never want to feel that and then he tried to tell like an actual joke yeah yeah yeah he said what do you call two pandas sorry I can't remember the joke man but I just and then he told the punchline and everyone all I heard was like a glass like clink and then he went yeah that's been my time and I was like I never want to experience that level of bombing ever. So, like, it's so nice when people go, oh, Hamid, you should do stand-up.

1:00:20I'm like, listen, I would love to do stand-up, but I don't think I can ever recover from that level of bombing. You just never see me again. It would be like some Mrs. Havisham thing. Has anyone seen Hamid? No. I haven't seen him in 15 years. Because it's just like, like, I don't think I can ever recover. That's too much for me.

1:00:39Mo Gilligan: But you know what, what I'd say to that though is that that's as bad as it will ever get but as good as it will ever get is the raw and every comic feels it and it's weird because it's like you have to weirdly sit with that because what will happen it might be the opposite and it might go so well that you're like rah this started off amazing this is my job and I was fortunate to do my first show and it went really well and I was getting these laughs and I was like wow wow wow but the minute I got that one it was like what the fuck has just happened like and I'm sitting there and it only it didn't happen you know I'd done shows when I was a bit younger at uni's but I was like it went and they laughed at the main bits but it's alright these are my peers but it was when I'd go to a show and I'm like oh there's only like 20 people here like I get in a room of 100 or 200 cool but I was like there's enough people 20 that but then at this point in my career and I'm a little bit older I've done a few shows I'm like fuck what's wrong with you people man why are you not laughing then I'm looking at the drawing board like it must be me I've got but I think that is like the worst it will ever get yeah but the best is like it's a feeling that it's like you're saying you know when you went to the BAFTAs and you're like wow if I could package this up and sell it yeah that feeling of getting those first laughs is beyond what you're ever imagine and it's it's this weird drug of like I want to do that again yeah like I can't believe I just done that in five minutes and I'm a big fan of me in comics who were very early and I'm like come do my show man like I've got a small show in Greenwich two hundred people just jump on because that audience doesn't know that they're new yeah but if you go into a space where it's like it's open mic and yeah you know everyone's a bit new already the audience are like I'm expecting that there'll be about two or three people that would be good yeah the rest nah so already they've set themselves up so i think whenever i meet comics that are you know i met one comic and she was she was an extra on something and she was like oh um you're one of the reasons why i've done comedy i said oh sick i said listen i've got a show do you want to jump on do five minutes and she was like what i was like that's the way you're going to be able to thrive yeah yeah yeah i i'm i'm fortunate enough to be in that position but I guarantee if you done comedy you would get big laughs because that story you told me if you told that on stage people would laugh at that.

1:03:13Mo Gilligan: You have a really good way of like how you project your voice but how you have like a line that's like a throwaway line and that bro there's comics that try and buy this stuff you know and be like yeah man so you know dogs what's the problem with them and you're like boo boo get this guy off the stage you know why because they've they've molded themselves on a comic that they know and they see they try to do the mannerisms and like but you it's like i always say like when it comes to the way your delivery is it will be so natural you won't even know you're doing it yeah and you know when i first started i wanted to be like the comics that i used to watch on death jam yeah and be like yeah what's going on people man and I'd be so energetic because they would be energetic but realised and I was like that's not me though is it this comic who I like is from LA totally different bigger crowds I'm from South London so the minute I found my thing and I was like I know how I can connect with my audience do you know what I mean I can be self deprecating I can be charming I can take the piss but also not go that far do you know what I mean I think that's the thing is like finding your thing yeah yeah it just comes from just trying but i generally think you'd be so fucking good no coming from you that means a lot honestly like you're very naturally funny but i definitely think like i i see that you know as we get towards your end i i can see you in those spaces because i feel like once you're able to unlock that space and whether you wanted to do it as like a full-time profession yeah it's always going to be up to you but like in terms of acting it's definitely going to give you the tools of the timing.

1:04:57Mo Gilligan: Yeah. You know, I weirdly have not done as much acting as I'd love to do. I love acting, but I always have the fear of like, I don't know, man. Like I would like the perfect role for me, but I'm not in the position to pick the perfect role. But when I do, I know how I can get my comic timing to come across. Do you know what I mean? What is the perfect role? I think for me, it's weird. Because I would love to do a really funny role that you wouldn't expect me to be in. Right. Like I don't care if I'm, I can be very self-deprecating about myself. And if I could do that in a film or a TV series, like one of my favourite roles in Succession is Cousin Greg.

1:05:37Yeah.

1:05:37Mo Gilligan: That, for me, would be the perfect role. Because I find him in something like that. I love Succession, innit? But the fact that, like, he just pops in. Yeah. And I remember when I first watched it, I was like, who's this guy? He's not about the business life, bro. but then I was I couldn't wait for his scenes to come back so when he'd have his scenes and he's like the old one out of the family and like he's kind of understanding but then he's got this situation with his dad and I was like yeah that's that role there where you're not you haven't got the heavy lifting do you know what I mean where like you sit there and you're like oh Brian Cox imagine being in a scene with him but then getting to be cousin Greg who's like hey what's up okay I'll fuck off and you're like that role for me is one of my favourite roles so probably something like that but then it's interesting as a stand up and when I've done anything that's like I film something and again I'm like yeah which one I do my bit and it's like alright action I do my lines Derek is like yeah that was great but if you just do it to the script I'm like oh man get me out of here bro why are you telling me to read the lines man and you know when you're like that was a good take man we don't need to do no more is it and it was like yeah we just kind of need to like how the script is if you're like that and you do it and you're like there's no vibes bro there's no vibes you've basically given me a burger with no cheese no onions this is just playing really sort of crisps but it's knowing that like I guess I'm so used to the freedom of humour that I can take it wherever I want whereas knowing that you're like this person's written the thing and they just need to say that for the next line and I think that's where I probably I'm like okay cool let me just say the word yeah I feel like that's where the fun is like being able to to construct your own version of what this person is trying to say it's all about interpretation isn't it you know when you see like the best comedies on stage or whatever like one of them in my opinion is One Man Two Governors if you can find it it's worth watching with James Corden okay and there's something about that written by adapted by Richard Bean and there's something about that production where it's like, it's all written and there's some improv there, obviously, but the way that it's interpreted, it's just so brilliant.

1:08:02And it's like, it's one of the reasons why Miss I'm on that stream is one of the most popular Shakespearean comedies and, you know, because it's always about, you're always going to see a different production. You're never going to see the same production twice. And that's really cool because you're like, oh, we're going to see a comedic company try and make this thing funny in a different way than when I saw it last year or whatever. Do you know what I mean? I think that's where I find the fun in it. It's finding what, it's like, what do I think is funny? And then I try and put it within the lines.

1:08:30Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah. And then hopefully, fingers crossed, people find it funny. And it works sometimes. Other times, maybe not so much. Yeah. I think that's where I find, I enjoy it. When you're crafting it, when you're trying to work it out. It's just like moulding it. Yeah. It's not working, but I know it can work. and when it does work you're like oh so it's fine-tune it let's take that bit out exactly so so with your end where you're right now in your career where you're you know you're an actor who is on stage you're on screen you enjoy doing stuff um but behind the screen as if you want to call it that like when it comes to directing and you know writing and stuff where do you start to really like see like your career trajectory in some ways because i asked because a lot of my favorite actors they say that the prime is when they're in like their 50s and 60s and whenever i meet actors and and you know i'm talking about the the actors that i watch on like you know films and stuff but even me and actors who have you know they're on tv and they're constantly working they might not be as famous as your hollywood actor but you know someone told me so like a good actor is a working actor you know that's the actor who's a good actor because they're always working on something in a thing and to the point where you'll see them in the house you know that and you look at almost credits you know so how do you start looking at you know that part of your your life where you know there might be the decision to this thing happening in America mmm you know we want to come out and do the thing but you're also kind of working here though do you know what I mean yeah yeah how do you start to really like envision that in some ways and create like your legacy I've always moved in my career with gut feeling so whenever my agent calls me about a project if I if my gut feeling goes nah then I just want to do it and I feel like that's always been my my thing doesn't matter how much they're going to pay me doesn't I don't really care.

1:10:46If I instantly get that, oh, that doesn't feel right, then I just won't do it. And I feel like that's how I've always like moved forward. So I think, you know, I think with my career, I need, the moment it stops being fun is when I'll pivot. I think that's where it is. I think I'm having so much fun right now because I'm, incredibly privileged and honoured to be working with incredible people all the time to be meeting people who I never thought I'd meet you included I think that's man no I swear and for me that's just like that's that's the fun bit I'm having so much fun man I'm getting to work on these on these sets and be on these stages and have conversations with these directors and producers I'm having fun

1:11:39Mo Gilligan: and I feel like the moment it stops having fun I'll pivot and I'll do and I'll attempt something else. Yeah, yeah. I don't have like a set, you know, I don't have, I've never had like, oh, I've never had a dream. Does that make sense? I've never been like, oh, one day I'm going to, I think one time I did and it was like, one day I'm going to lead a production at the Royal Shakespeare Company. I haven't done that yet. I would love to do that. But I've never gone like, oh yeah, one day I'm going to be the next because I just I don't know I've never really done that I've always just gone by let's just see what happens let's just see what happens man and if it works out great if it doesn't well we tried do you know what I'm saying that's how I've always gone with my career and I think I'm going to continue doing that because I think it's worked for me so far so I don't want to fix anything that ain't broken so yeah that's how I'm just going to keep moving forward the moment it stops being fun every time I step on a set I have the time of my life whether I'm like in pain or like you know starving or whatever I know I'm having fun yeah yeah you know the show I was on the Wheel of Time I met and I met Rosamund Pike I remember meeting her for the first time and I remember when oh I'm on the same show as Rosamund Pike and now I can actually say I'm a friend of hers that's like whoa do you know what I mean that's crazy or like meeting everyone else on this production on this television show I've like made lifelong friends and had fun doing it do you know what I mean Black Ops as well I've been watching AK for years and then and Bemi and then all of a sudden I'm now sharing a screen with them and I'm having fun doing it you excited for season series 2 to come out oh yeah so excited I'm just I'm having fun and I feel like yeah the moment I keep saying it but the moment I stop having fun is when I pivot but until then it's going to keep going bro honestly man and also I can't wait for you to do some stand up so whenever you're ready to give me the call and you're like bro I'm thinking I'm going to do a five I'm going to hold you to that the door is always open man I feel like once I get over that hurdle of like that nightmare of bombing then maybe I'll give it a go but what will probably happen you'll probably do like a biopic of like I don't know Cedric the Entertainer life or something and you're like I need to do stand up now can I come down and I was like alright cool any roles for me do they need any other roles but no it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the podcast Black Ops is is out now on BBC iPlayer do they show it in the States as well right yeah Hulu on Hulu yeah that's a good one you know yeah bro that's a top one bro it's not to be it's not to be hey no disrespect to 2B 2B's great no no I can't disrespect 2B man 2B's great I don't know how my career could go one day do you know what I mean 2B's great I've seen some oh but I've seen some corkers but it's great it's great will it be available at the same time as well I'm not sure okay alright I'm not sure but you can catch series 1 you can catch series 1 on Hulu and BBC iPlayer oh wicked man bro it's been a pleasure to have you on the podcast thank you so much and this my friends has been your beginning middle and end thank you very much thanks man Thank you so much.

1:15:08Mo Gilligan: Respect, man. Hey, what's up? Thank you so much for listening to the podcast today. Now, a lot goes in to making each episode. I know you hear my voice, but there's a team behind the scenes who helped make it. And if you did enjoy it, I'd really, really appreciate it if you could show the love to them by giving us five stars. And if you also have the time, please leave us a review. It's always appreciated. And we love reading the comments. And of course, we want to keep making it better. Thank you for listening and have a great day. Peace.