GBEMISOLA IKUMELO

0:00Mo Gilligan: Hey, what's happening people? My name is Mo Gilligan and this is the Beginning, Middle and End podcast. Now this is where I'm going to be asking some of my favourite people about how they started, where they are now and the legacy they want to leave. Now this week's guest is a fiercely talented actor who has won an RTS award for her role in the cultural phenomenon which is Famalam. That's right, she recently starred in the TV show based on an iconic film which is called A League of Their Own and she is also an acclaimed writer who has two BAFTA awards under her belt. She joins me today speaking about everything from going to university in Edinburgh to starting her own production company and her own drama school to talking about the new series of Black Ops which is going to be hitting our TV screens any moment now.

0:50Mo Gilligan: So please, welcome to the podcast, Bemisola Ikumelu. thanks for coming on the pod man the pod is very chill it's just in the title basically we let it go wherever it wants to go and um the last time i seen you was uh uh i gave you that award was it last year 2020 no december was it this time i literally had to run from there to go on stage so it was definitely 2020 no 2023 yeah congrats man yeah it was the end thank you women in television award yeah yeah man some big hairs in that room you know it was crazy to be honest you were a big hit i was like wait wait mo's gonna mo's gonna do it because i had some names and they were like yeah give us some names and i thought it had to be women so i was giving these names so oh don't worry mo gilligan's gonna do it so i was like they chum all your names out of the i'm like okay okay thank you for that but like your career is is interesting because even just like researching about you i didn't know you went to university in edinburgh is it in edinburgh what was that like because obviously my experience of edinburgh is the fringe festival yeah and it's a different i know edinburgh the fringe is different to living there so what was that like i left edinburgh every fringe so everyone was coming in i was like yeah yeah yeah but um it's such a beautiful city and sort of looking back on it older now i can sort of i'm i appreciate i'm appreciative of my time there.

2:21It was beautiful. It was nice. I think I was like the first time I'd really left London for a certain amount of time. And I grew up in the ends, East London. And so it was a culture shock.

2:34Mo Gilligan: Were you from Dagenham? I'm sorry. I thought you were from Dagenham. I'm sorry. I said East London. I didn't say Essex. I'm from Newham. It's next door, slightly. No, it's not. I'm sorry, if your postcode doesn't have N-E-S-O-W, you don't live in London. And I mean that to the Croydon Massive too. I'm sorry, what's C-R? No. It's funny you say that because I moved to that side of East London, didn't it? So you see for me in South, it just felt like it was all the same, didn't it? So I moved to like, I was near like Canary Wolfside, didn't it? Yeah. So I am in, what was my borough? I'm in the borough of Noom, I think I was.

3:16Mo Gilligan: You were in Noom? Was I in Tower Hamlets? so Canary Wolfe is Tower Hamlets no actually was I I don't know what borough I was in you know I might have been Tower Hamlets that might have been the borough how do you not know what borough you live in no because I didn't you know like when I moved I didn't know the area at all I was only there for like two and a half years I don't care you should know what borough you live in but at the same time it's like I know the area but I don't so my whole geography of the area you know like when people are like no like Isle of Dogs is different to Canary Wolfe and I'm like for me it all looked the same you know So I'm like, yo, I live in Canary Wharf.

3:49Mo Gilligan: And man, I'm like, yeah, that side is Isle of Dogs still. I think you're in Isle of Dogs, you know? You're in Isle of Dogs. No, bro, I'm in Canary Wharf. No, you're in Isle of Dogs. You're near the Asda. Sorry. So guys, sorry, going back to Edinburgh. How was Edinburgh for you, that study and stuff? It was, yeah. So going from East London, where I could just roll out, get my cocoa butter, get my plantain, do all that. And then I was, and at the time I was there, it was, I'd never been around. I'd never been that much of a minority in my life. I'd never, you know what I mean? Like I grew up in neighborhoods that where people were brown and black.

4:33And so I never really, I went to college. I went to college in Havering. So I definitely had a diverse group of friends and people from all backgrounds. but I was the only black person in my year. And I think the year above me, there was no one black and the year below me, there was no one black. And so I was like, oh, and it was, we weren't using terms like microaggressions back then, but I was like, ah.

4:58Mo Gilligan: This is old school. They're racist. Yeah, it was. Oh, and not even just micro, there was not micro racing, there was racism racism. I remember being called a black on the bus, just walking. And I remember getting a stick and chasing the people who got like i was i you know you know it's mad that you say that is that because i remember back in the day it's like now luckily enough we have like camera phones so people can see it yes but back in the day you would tell this to somebody go no way that happened and you're like yeah like i remember once i was like 13 years old standing at denmark hill train station this guy was on the other platform just shouting raise it was you know when it's so racist i'm like Jeez.

5:40Mo Gilligan: I'm like, I'm 13. Cause I want to have my back here. This guy was, go back home. And I was like, brother, what? And I never forgot, never forget. I got on the train and I gave him the middle finger in it. I was back giving middle finger. I never forget this woman looked at me and she was like, well done. And I was like, where the fuck was you man? Well done. I needed you on the platform man. Oh man. Yeah, I was with three of my friends as well from drama school when that happened. And it was like 10 youths and they just wouldn't let me pass. They were like pretending they couldn't see me. And I was like, excuse me, can you move, please?

6:25After like five times I was saying, they were like, oh, sorry, we didn't see you there. And then as I walked past, he yelled. And I just turned back and I just saw red. and I just so so my experience was interesting in Edinburgh and it was one of those things you know when you talk about the black nod when you're like you see someone like it really was I was like oh my god there's another one hi hello hello black sir man

6:48Mo Gilligan: the black nod is so international isn't it you can be in the most remote part of the world and see another black person I've done it in Japan and I was like and he was like will you say it I was like yeah oh gosh so it was a bit and i i kind of i think it was the first no i think i code switching was probably a thing but i really realized i need to take some of the ends out some of the base out of my voice yeah yeah yeah and uh and even when i did that i mean there were times when there was a whole period where they were accusing people there were a lot of people doing drugs and things like that in drama school and it got around and i remember this i've never done a legal substance in my life and i'll never forget this teacher going looking straight at me in a going if we hear that you've been doing drugs you're out of here and i got so i was like what do you who are you talking to you do you mean me no we just mean everyone you're talking to me If you've got a question, ask me.

7:56So there's a lot of that kind of nonsense. But I'm so grateful for the experience because, honestly, like I learned a lot. And even that stuff, even that stuff kind of set me up in a way to know how to move through this industry and through this business. And it's definitely gotten better, you know. I'm not having random people like drama school going, hey, you got any weed school? I wouldn't even know where to begin, madam.

8:28But yeah, I'm glad I went. Beautiful place. And I wouldn't not do it again, even with all that. And I made some great friends and had a laugh. And it was good to be out of London.

8:39Mo Gilligan: I think that's so important when you're studying and you're young, just to get a taste of being outside of your surroundings. I feel like it helps you focus more. I've done it a little bit for college and a bit for university. of just and I wasn't very far from where I was I was living but at the same time I was like oh bro this is different surroundings people people queue up for the buses around here do you know what I mean say thank you driver yeah small things like that man and then you set up your own drama company as well yeah young people around that time as well what made you want to do that I it was a it's an organization called Faith Drama Productions which we've kind of gone dormant but It doesn't not exist.

9:19We're in a sort of transitional period. But I set this up, I think, before I went to drama school, really. But it sort of started up as a sort of drama youth group in my church because I saw, actually, no, it was just after I came back from uni. And I saw a lot of young people who were just uncomfortable in their own skin. And I remember coming out of drama school with all the stuff I just said, feeling like I had tools to at least pretend I was confident, right? and we play drama games a lot and there's something about a drama game that can get you laughing get you sort of breaking the touch barrier in a way that feels safe and all that and I wanted to just do drama games with these young kids from ends who were just like you know too shy to even look you in the eye when you talk to them so we started up this sort of drama group in the youth church and then by the summer they were so like glowing that I was like let's put on a play should we do a play?

10:16let's do a play and we sort of I wrote something um packed out this um this space um in the basement of our church like an overflow and uh after that I think some of the guys are like I think should we do this every year should we do something and then eventually I wanted to kind of bring it out of the four walls of the church and be um so yeah Faith Drama was born and we'd sort of been doing productions nationally we've been as far as Birmingham we've done national tours we've produced amazing pieces we've done short films and so it's it and it's the stuff even though it was me just hustling trying to scramble money from the arts council wherever that was i didn't realize was my training for writing for writing comedy i didn't even realize i was writing comedy do you know i mean that was the base ground doing that just because we had to do a play every summer we had to get plays on and no i don't afford to get anyone else to write it so I guess I'll write it and direct it and produce it so that was my my my film school

11:18Mo Gilligan: as it were you know ain't it so nice when you start working like with young people and especially when you see like their creativeness come out in ways that they're not able to express in sometimes school or around their friends when you look at someone you're like wow that person is very good and some people don't even know it all it takes for users to say to them hey man like you take this serious man and you know that is i think it's one of the coolest things you get to witness of the space where we get to a company where you're like there are people now that were in that collective of young people who are now in the business artists and i'm like proud mum going yes yes I see you I told you you were really good didn't I and so that makes it just it makes my heart swell and I actually really that's this thing I'm craving I sort of miss that you know the more I kind of I'm working in different spaces and you know with more suits for want of a better word I kind of just miss the scrappiness of working with young people and you know what someone did that for me when I was young and one in as a Nigerian kid who there was no outlet in a Nigerian diaspora and home to do drama.

12:35So, you know, I had a teacher and someone who sort of was like, you're really good. You should, you know, you should go here. You should join the National Youth Theatre. You should do these things. And that made me, you know, that gave me the confidence to do that. So someone did it for me. So it was nice to be able to do that.

12:51Mo Gilligan: How did your parents react? Like when you said you wanted to do drama, because you kind of said it a little bit there but my my dad raised me and he bless him um i think it was not very easy for him as a man of a certain generation raising a girl alone and then also raising a girl who wanted to act it was like i think unfathomable my dad's very smart phd proper like education is king you know i literally was talking to him the other day and i was trying doing maths I was so bad at maths it's kind of I remember it being a bone of contention in our relationship like are you dumb this is the you know I did I was doing a sum and I went is it I think I was converting Naira to pounds and I was like is it and he on even on the phone he went ah still I said dad I said I'm an I'm an actor now okay you can't let's let's not go there yeah so So, yeah, he was not, he at one point forbid me from doing anything drama related, anything acting.

13:59Mo Gilligan: Because I know for an Nigerian household from a lot of my friends, it's normally an accountant, lawyer, doctor. Disgrace to the family. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So your dad, so what, he forbid you for doing acting? Yeah, I think he thought I would grow out of it and da, da, da, da. But then I think when he was seeing my maths, I wasn't doing great in maths. And I was all right in science, but not great. And I think he was just like, maths and science and English, those are the subjects that are going to get you ahead. And that was a very, there was only one way. It was like education, and that's the way forward.

14:39And it has to be these kind of, you know, these STEM subjects that will get you there. So arts for him was just a nonsense. And so when I was doing it, I actually lied about all the subjects. I told him, yeah, I'm doing double maths, double science. So he thought I was doing it. I was not. I was doing drama. I was doing expressive arts. I was doing all the arts subjects. So I had to be really secretive. It was a real bone of contention growing up. And kind of cool looking back at it that I kind of stuck to my guns and, you know, my dad was terrifying growing up and I sort of, there was something.

15:24That's why I feel like it's a calling, not just a gig, like a job. Because as a kid, I just was like, no, this is, and I had no frame of reference. I had no people to, you know, who were telling me, oh, I want to be like this actor or that. I didn't really have that. So the fact that it was just in me and I was so defiant that, or maybe I'll just stop it. maybe my dad said no and I just was like yeah I want to do it because he said no but I yeah I was really committed so but now my dad is like at one time it was a friend I think it was the closest I got to an apology was like you always knew didn't you I'm like yes dad I did

16:02Mo Gilligan: so how did your dad react in 2015 when you got like the call up to do uh Sunny D on 2015 because that was like one of your kind of breakthrough that's the first time i had witnessed uh witness you on screen so how did your dad react to that i didn't really i don't think i told him i didn't know what sunny d was i didn't really know it was the beginning or something you know it's one of these things now i can look back and go that was that was my introduction to comedy i i before that i was very serious and yeah and i was going to tread the boards forever and i was going to do dark you know stuff and uh i doing sunny d i i get i get told you're a natural you're really good at this and did it and i just and that's when i met akemji uh devonian like yeah yeah he was saying that he's on the pod recently so i met him doing that and you know he basically changed my life and so that i it was one of those things i didn't it wasn't a thing it was another job that I got as an actor and I don't really tell my dad of all the jobs I get so I didn't think I told him about it but yeah looking back now I'm like that was the sort of the catalyst that started off a chain of events that's kind of How was it being on there?

17:28I loved it like I, to laugh every day on set is a thing that's lost on me like but I know you say laughter is medicine but it really is it really is to be in a job where you can just make jokes and make people laugh and make yourself laugh and be like and be affected by something someone else has said and dame was brilliant and it was such a cool knit close-knit of people it was sasha frost don warrington it was um liz there was like lots of really amazing actors and and funny people and it did feel like a real close-knit group of people and and i loved it and speaking of a a close like kind of group he was in famaland and i know a ton of people in famaland

18:15Mo Gilligan: tommy moochie and samson yourself famaland for me i absolutely loved it because one i felt like for our generation it was you know in terms of black sketch shows you know the one that's always like looked up to is obviously the real mccoy but that and then you know there had been others that had come as well but famalam i think one because i knew so many people in it and also it's just the pressures of just like oh there's a sketch show for us a lot all right cool but it was so funny to this day i still quote stuff i still watch like i still watch stuff and see and see sketches from it and stuff and it was some of the stuff was so like i was like that's so good man what was it like for you being part of that because it felt like from judging from the outside i could see there was like as watching it i was like there is a ton of amazing actors in here and doing some of these sketches because i'm sitting here cracking up and i'm like how are you lot how are you lot being serious we're not they're using the best takes they're working around us laughing they're working on samson laughing but it was honestly that's still a highlight of my career doing that it was it was special then and it's still special now like it felt in the moment i was like this feels special and uh akimji has had assembled such an amazing a bunch of performers who brought different things to the table and and it kind of yeah it was like alchemy it was really really special i loved i loved doing it it was not always easy but yeah but i i enjoyed it and and sometimes someone said this i think it's such an interesting thing like comedy like you could say the same things you're saying in a drama and people won't get offended but if you do it in a comedy people can and so there was a lot of as well there was a lot of love but sometimes like you know if a sketch went viral and it was like you're making fun of this and it's like no when we're no we're holding up a mirror to the world that we live in you know and so people you know there was there was that and i'd never been exposed to to like virality on on social media and people people with their opinions about your work and stuff so that was that was an interesting part of it but yeah you then win an award you win an rts award for for best female um for best female comedy performance in family land how was that because there's there's one thing of like being in stuff but once you start getting the recognition because i know the feeling of like oh it's nice you're nominated i get to wear a nice outfit and then you and then you win something you're like uh gosh raw yeah yeah how did that feel that first one and i think that might have been like the first ever award i'd won for performance and like i think that was that was it that was i think it was 2020 i think it was so it was a weird time anyway.

21:41Mo Gilligan: That was a pandemic time. Yes, it was. And I was, so I was, I was in the computer screen and I think, I can't, my memory fails me, but I'm not sure if it came before or after the BAFTAs, but I definitely remember that with the BAFTAs, you get nominated and then, because this is all on screen, when you didn't win, they don't, you don't just hear that you didn't win, you just get locked off the Zoom, bro. you're like, I'm like, oh, oh, I'm not on, I'm like, hello, you've gone, and then nobody, and nobody comes for you, nobody says, thank you, say goodbye or not, just like, I'm like, I guess, I guess I didn't win that, and then, that was the 2021, I was in that same Zoom, yes, they just locked you off, because I won that year as well, wouldn't it, no, I lost that year, did you lose that year, yeah, that's what I'm saying with the batter I lost so the RTS I was like ready to get you know you know I was okay like whatever it's fine ready to just sort of smile and then Jonathan Ross called my name and I was just like I just remember going oh my so that was the first thing I'd won and like off the back of a yeah of a performance last with Afterworld they were hot They locked people.

23:11Mo Gilligan: Because I was in my house. And I remember I had some shorts on. And I put a shirt on. Because I thought, if I do win, I don't want to be, not in a t-shirt. But I was like, and I'll never forget that when everyone was on Zoom. And I just remember to see him bare familiar face. I'm like, right, it's Jodie Coman. I'm looking at their houses, isn't it? Trying to look at the background of their houses. I'm like, right, people got some nice cribs, boy. so I think I was up first and we done a little rehearsal they said this is what will happen when I'm in they said brother I blinked everyone was locked off I said these men are on the clock oh man but you won up after them yes because I got nominated for two and I lost the performance award because this is kind of like where we are now in your career in some ways now because i feel like since like the bafta your rise has been like yeah in some ways it feels quick but in other ways i feel like i've been out in these streets like yeah yeah yeah of course um um doing bits and being a jobbing actor so i don't i don't know but i know what you mean like in terms of the period between sort of fam lam and now although actually fam lam was even a while ago yeah yeah yeah yeah speeding up but it did that that when the recognition came it did come like oh wow okay oh oh you okay great what was it like when winning that bafta the bafta the first time i remember because i'd lost that i found out i'd lost and i went and i took off my dress i went to go and put on my trousers i'll order some pizza and i was like whatever I'm done like it was lovely and then and then it went live because we were shoot I think we we'd done that bit ahead and then we watched the rest of it live and it was for a short program it was for a short that I'd made and they did that bit at the end oh and all these other people won as well and they sort of listed you know so it was like and this one and this one and so I was eating my pizza and I saw and we had to make pre-acceptance speeches so I did we wrote a sketch for it and did a sketch and they showed a clip of the sketch and I just remember pizza I remember screaming I didn't know who his voice it was and pizza was all over the floor and I was in my pyjamas and I was calling my cousin I won!

25:41I won! So that one was because I actually I actually remember after losing and being locked off that cause I'm not going to win anything it's fine

25:51Mo Gilligan: it's like that though I know what you mean when sometimes you're like you know what let me just chill out now innit I can fucking relax yeah because it's a lot it's a lot from nomination and the thing that's frustrating because I've been I'm sure you have been on the panel for these things I've never done the panel you've never done a thing no no no I find it hard to judge my peers because it's like it's if I've if I've got to judge something that's so far away like news or something like this and they do do that yeah so it's like you're not necessarily always being asked to do like yeah the because I remember thinking doing something like entertainment or comedy entertainment or something like that.

26:28And they've already made the decision. So when you've been nominated, the panel, the winner's already been, that decision's been made.

26:37Mo Gilligan: It's done. Everyone knows apart from you. Exactly. So the slog of being nominated and then months to the award and clothes and whatever is a lot. And even though it's a joy and it's really great, it actually does take a little bit of a mental toll because it's like all you can sort of think about and do and all that. And then this one moment, this one second in your life, it determines, and then it's sort of over. It's a really weird build up to it being over, especially when you lose. It's like, oh my God. So there is a kind of relief when it's done. Do you know, I feel like when you lose, sometimes it's like you can be in a category and you're like, I know this person's winning this.

27:21Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the last time I went, I was in a category and I think Claudia Winkleman was in it for Traitors. That show was blown up at the time. So for me, I knew I spent that day like, it's good to be here. Let me just enjoy the vibes, all the interviews. That is definitely like I would have been shocked if I had won that because I was like Traitors is a bad boy program. Claudia Winkleman is one of the nicest people as well. And I was like, no, man, that's her time. Do you see what I'm saying? But I think when I went for the first time in 2019, the big nasty show was up. And that was my first time just going to any award show.

27:53Mo Gilligan: So I'm like, nah, bro. We should win, bro. It's me, nasty. It's for the culture. What do you mean? And then they brought the camera. The camera. Oh, the camera. Listen, the camera was in my face. So I was like, what? That must mean. And then giving out the award, I think it was David Schwimmer. And he was previously on the Big Nasty show. So I'm putting all the dots together. I said, what? The camera's there? David Schwimmer is giving out the award. I was like, all right, let me, all right, Vaseline. And the winner is... Not you! A League of Their Own. I said, blood fire. But now I've got a clap.

28:32Mo Gilligan: I ain't listening. I said, yo, why they got the camera? The camera's so full on. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. So what was it like that time when you won now? You're at the awards show now. That one was crazy because we've done one the next year. I got nominated the next year and it was a bit like we were in the war, but it was like distancing everyone. So it was like half the audience. But then. So what year is this 2021? Oh, I think so. Yeah. 2021. Yes. 2021. So I think there was. And then. Yeah. And then the one that I won last year. Was that last year? Because years and days are all. Yes. Yes. That was last year.

29:17Yeah.

29:17Mo Gilligan: Yeah. so that one is that we had like the kind of is it like a bow tie or tux yeah yeah yeah bad boy outfit I see it come on I was like I'm in a suit era I was feeling that whole season I was like I'm wearing suits I don't care I'm the only woman amongst everyone because everyone with black ops is all sort of I'm the only woman here I want to just rep like with the dudes and wear suits like they get to but um 2021 so they they brought that camera 2021 they they I kind of didn't think I was going to win So it wasn't But it's still a disappointment You feel it You feel the disappointment of it And this is the second time now So I'm like God Stop bringing me out here I'm getting tired But it was nice to be outside So And I got to wear a frock Because we were all stuck inside And then this one I was like Bruh Like honestly It's okay You don't need to keep nominating me Because I'm tired Actually it's expensive to keep buying, getting outfits done and stuff.

30:18Really happy and nominated, but flipping heck. And then they did that thing with the camera. But I'm well versed now at losing. So I'm just like...

30:27Mo Gilligan: You practice your... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, you know what? It's a lot of... And we'd had a good season, that season of Black Ops was winning a lot of things and I'd won an RTS already and I felt vindicated and blessed. And I was like, I've had the appreciation, so I'm happy. and it was Hamid's first nomination. So I'm like, I'm here with my bro. He's sitting in front of me. Like, it's... And it was so... It was like BAFTA proper because there was no social distances. It was over a thousand people in that place, I think. Royal Festival Hall, innit? Yeah. So the vibe was... And the walk from where we were sitting down the steps, I was like, it's...

31:09I said, they put us at least near the front if we want.

31:12Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, you start doing that. I'd be like, why would you put us all the way at the back if we're going to win? Yes, they do that still. They've done that where I think the first time it was like, oh, we're near the stairs. We're near the stairs and in the middle. And I remember in front of us was Phoebe, Phoebe, Phoebe, what is it? Wallerbridge. Wallerbridge. Wallerbridge. Yeah, she was in front of us. So I was like, Robert, look who we're with. Hello, you all right? What are you saying? Well, she always wins, so. Yeah, and I'm like, well, I'm going to be in the front. I've got my ting there.

31:41Mo Gilligan: She's got her ting there. So you know that when they do the cutscenes, you see me holding the BAFTA. Listen, we didn't win. I said, I'm done. Is this come? Is this come? What was it like last year though, man? But winning, I remember going, I actually look back at it and I think I went numb. I went a bit numb because I look vexed. Like when I win, I know, yeah, yeah. And I think when I got down and then I heard the screams back, that's when I woke up. And it was, it was a really, really beautiful moment. It was such a beautiful moment, but I think there was a moment of literal shock. And then you do the backstage award tour, the winner's tour.

32:22We're going into this room and they're asking, interview. All the press is there.

32:26Mo Gilligan: Then you've got to do a little photo shoot. All of that. And I was like, so this is what they've been keeping from me. That's what's been the service. When I've been losing, they're doing all that. I didn't know. And random people just come up to you as well. When you hold it. When you're holding it. Oh my God, congratulations. Yeah. You're like, who's that? Who's that? Someone say, yeah, that's the person that owns that. Oh, is it? Thank you. I remember you.

32:51Jennifer. Yeah, great. I remember I was going down, we're going to dinner after the thing. And the scooter guy goes, do you have your invite? And someone went, that's our invite.

33:04Mo Gilligan: The BAFTA, innit? Love me, bro. You don't see this. when you went did they have the you know the the plaques already there sometimes they'd send them out afterwards yeah for the for the for the for the covid times they'd done it already i think for whatever reason but this last one yeah i had to wait for that you had to wait a couple months yeah please i need complete i need it the infinity just give it to me man and i was a bit annoyed because i didn't want to do it myself because i'm not good yes yeah yeah yeah yeah but it's a bit off and someone comes there right your thing's a bit like why is it like this why is it yeah so like you've gone on to so what that's three baftas now isn't it is that three that's two baftas i'm i'm chasing you but not quite no no listen man this is i'm not i'm not here to compete man i am i want ikea to give me my own shelf But my bath is...

34:01That's what I want, man. Okay? What are you talking about? What are you saying? I'd be like, yo, can I... How many?

34:11Mo Gilligan: Two? Get out of here, man. I can't lie. I was being mad cheeky, you know. I was like, yo. Hey, hey, kid. They got back to me. I got a whole shelf in my kitchen. A little cabinet, boy. Oh, that's so funny, man. I forgot. I didn't know anyone knew that. Oh, please. i knew i knew they knew it

34:34Mo Gilligan: but then obviously like where you are your middle now because i came to i was saying this to a kenji i came to the um the press night the press screening of um of black ops and i thought it was amazing man i really did i really enjoyed it and i feel like it's so important for us to support each other in those moments where you got like the press in the room and like because they they want to hear what we have to say when there's a Q &A and stuff and whatnot. But also like your performance in it, like as a comedy piece, which was, I sat there and I was like, oh, this is, this is, I was like, hey, run, run, run the other episodes, man.

35:12Mo Gilligan: So what was it for you like being in, because I know like, you know, you've been in other things as well, but obviously when you're in a UK drama, a UK comedy drama, off the back of something like Famalam, which is again, back on the BBC, as well um well how was that working with a kenji again like i like if he'll have me i'll work for him forever like i'll work with him forever he's he's he's yeah i love working with him and now we've got a sort of shorthand where like i can cuss him and he can cuss me you know when it's like you can that kind of relationship where you it's just actually just really real and we can just bypass the politeness and just go like you know he'll be like baby can you can you trust me on this okay you know or i'll be like okay why where are you like i need you like you play the comedy so good you play it it's so funny it's so authentic do you know i mean when you play the characters you're like i believe this character like with sketch it's like you have two three minutes to tell a whole story and so it's not doesn't always leave enough time unless you're doing these recurring characters like the aunties to get into the fun of them but it is usually a lot more surface level with comedy but it's great to do narrative things where i actually get to act and and go oh no i i want this is who she is this is who dom is and and she's a little bit petulant but she's really smart and and i get to do that side of it and then do the comedy and sometimes the comedy is quite broad and quite silly and i'm falling over and we're doing really dumb stuff but then sometimes it gets a bit serious i can where we shoot in the you know we've shot the second series now we're we're um you know editing and some of it is like there's some real emotional heft in it and so it's lovely to play all that because that's what i want to do as an actor i want to be able to do it all i want to be able to you know do the funny and do the fun and do the silly and then do things that feel really grounded and feel weighty and yeah yeah and so yeah it's nice to be able to to to do that kind of stuff but i feel like you know there's some of the things you know using the amazon series a league of their own which is you must get it a lot but it's obviously it's so different from the sky one i remember you saying that you're accepting speech as well um you know which is about an american baseball team during the second world war going on things like amazon which is you know you're on amazon on a on a series that's because the one thing i always say about being able to work across the side of you know in america or whatever it is or like the way that they promote things is a different level where you're on a billboard and you're like oh my that's my hundred foot face that's mad yeah how do you find it over there and you're over there because you know what it's like when you there's because i always say there's american hollywood two different places where you can go around american you know something hey man I've seen you in it but what's it like for you when you're in LA as a black Brit because tons of black Brits are doing so well out there but when you're in something and you feature and you've got to do the meetings how does that start to change your life in some ways you know I I kind of just have decided that I'm gonna just go do the work and come home because I think it's really easy to get swept into the that even the British hype of it because you go there and you'll see the usual suspects there's like you there are Brits out there right you go to her house and you can't you can't go up the lift without hearing some Brit some obnoxious Brit it's like where the obnoxious Brits go oh my god yeah yeah how we feel about them when they're out here just loud if you need to find Brits just go downtown to her house or just go to that one in West Hollywood yes you will see someone yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so I kind of so and that stuff is fun and it's great and it's actually really nice to connect with black British people when you're out there because it's very lonely man it's a lonely city, it's a really lonely city I agree and there's a thing, there's a weird otherness that I didn't think I knew existed until which is being a black Brit with black amongst black Americans because your blackness isn't viewed.

39:38You're not viewed as the same. I'm like, not all the time, but there's a lot of the time when you get a sense of, oh, you don't see my experience and your experience in the same light. And so that otherness is interesting. When I'm on set, sometimes I just stop speaking with a UK accent and I just keep it American because one, the whole, oh, you're British, can get a little bit tiring. And it makes me feel like, oh, I'm different. And so I just, sometimes when I'm on set, I'll just be like everyone else and they'll forget. And then when we say cut and I'm, oh God, I forgot you were. Because they're so, it's so weird for them still to hear a black person with this voice.

40:26So they really notice it. And I'm, yeah, so that's interesting. But I love LA. I put on at least two stone every time I go out there. So I can't ever stay out there too long.

40:38Mo Gilligan: Listen, man, the vibes are vibulating out there, man. The vibes are vibulating. There's nowhere to walk unless you're a hiker. And I'm not a hiker. Yeah, yeah, yeah. London, you just walk as part of your day to day. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I'm like, I'm driving everywhere and I'm eating food filled with goodness knows what. And so I have to treat it like, no. Go out work and come home. Because if you start, for me, I think if I would just fall into the excess of it all. Yeah. And you'd have to like wheel me back out. Like, you know, my vice is not drugs and it is food. So you'd have to wheel me back on.

41:16I had to buy two seats for the plane.

41:18Mo Gilligan: Do you know what I always find whenever I'm out there is that meetings can be lunch. So, you know, here it's like, cool. A lunch is a lunch. And that's a catch up. and the meeting's a meeting, whereas they can combine the two. And it is, it's an hour. Like you've got - Three of those in a day? Four, five. And you're like, yeah, so we're going to go there. Okay, great. And it's like an hour or someone's like, okay, great. Well, I've got to run. It's been great. Let's catch up. And you're like, brother, I just got all this food, bro. I mean, brother, we need to finish somebody's - Finish the food.

41:49Mo Gilligan: What, he's going to leave the food there. It's okay. I've got the pill. Yeah, yeah. And you're like, okay, cool. And then you've got to figure out, okay, I need to get to Burbank. It's like pretty equivalent to anyone listening. It's the equivalent of being like, I'm in Central. I now need to go to Chigwell, Essex. I gotta go Chigwell for a meeting. And I need to be there 45 minutes ago. And they don't ramble. You get there and it's like, yeah, so you're 30 minutes late, but we can slash you in for 20 minutes. And you're like, what? I'm sorry, but I got stuck in traffic. because there's always traffic oh man what's it like for you when you're out there i i do really love it i do the what they call the water bottle tour you just sort of going in the in the car and you're i'm i i get hot if i'm one minute late to a thing like i'm like that's why i came to you i was here yeah i was in the fire i was waiting yeah i don't like being late so i end up showing up an hour early to all my meetings because i'm just and i'll just hang out in the street and then go in so that's a lot um traffic is insane but i love driving in america it's great in it i love they have big roads big roads you can go quick and then you're just driving and there's a mountain and yes just i just so that is and people think i'm weird but i love driving out there like i don't Get bored of it.

43:21I really love it. Never get bored of it.

43:22Mo Gilligan: Because it's sunny. They have valet everywhere. They have valet. So when you get to a meeting, you can just leave. Hey, what's up, man? Cool. Can I get your car? Can I get your name? Cool. And then you come back. Oh, that's my car. Beep. The car's there. On to the next one. And you're like, bro, this is great. I wish it was like this in the UK. But by the same token, I hate walking because it is not set up for walking. It is set up for cars. Like there'll be a time where you'll be walking on the pavement and then the pavement stops and then there's just motorway and you're just... You know what's mad out there?

43:57Mo Gilligan: It's like when you cross the road, you actually have to wait for the traffic because the road is so big. You're like, this is a long way. It's been here for like three minutes. And you can't jaywalk out there. It's illegal. They'll arrest you. So would you ever live out there if the opportunity was to come towards you? I never say never, but right now how I feel about it is I used to think, oh, I'm going to go to America and live there and that's going to be the dream. But now I've started to do it. I've gone, no, it's enough for me to go out there, work, enjoy my time, enjoy the people, made friends and people that I actually like.

44:33So that makes things a bit less lonely. I always want to come home. There's always a period in any job where I'm feeling that itched, get out of it. And there's something that, I don't know if it's, I don't know what it is about the rain and the concrete that makes me feel real.

44:50Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like after a while, I start feeling like it's Disneyland or something. I don't want to say artificial because it's a real place, but there's just something, it's just, there's no weather. Yeah. It's just, it's always sunny or a bit nothing. It's always sunny. It's always clear skies. It's all smoggy, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you get towards the airport side, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I just, there's a point where maybe the London in me just is crying out for grey and I don't know but there is always a point where I have to get home. Especially fresh air though. I think I've realised of being out there for quite a while that I come home and I go oh that's some cold fresh air man.

45:30Mo Gilligan: It's hard to describe when you've been out there but you're like that's just cold fresh air and grass. Real wet grass on the floor. I feel like they probably like painted their grass on this just like spray painted and it's like look at this wet grass with crisp mud. Yes. Yeah. You haven't seen Mudak, it's true. Yeah. It's true. So like where you are now in terms of the space you're now in as an actor and you've kind of been able to delve into, you know, getting your start from like, not like getting your start, but being on our screens in Sunny D and having those comedy roles in like Famalam, now Black Ops and Sunny D.

46:13Mo Gilligan: Is there a pressure that you don't want to feel like you're going to be typecast because the roles are always funny as well um is there like that pressure because obviously you know once you start winning things in that space people are like oh we've got an idea for you people like to put you in a box yeah that's what you do now yeah you can be like the funny black woman in this thing so it does that pressure kind of come to you in some ways where you're like oh does it change the way that you start looking at the opportunities for yourself as well yeah i mean i've always felt like i can't be one like like i i more than even an actor i just i'm a storyteller let me tell stories let me tell them how i feel moved to in the moment i don't want to be oh you're just a funny person because actually the funny thing feels really recent to me like comedy feels like a really new part and and a thing that i learned about in a much later I you know it was AK was the first person who said you should write on famalam and I said I don't write comedy and he says I think you do and then I started to write sketches and felt like oh wow there is a there's a rhythm and a that I that was in me that I understood and it was interesting and I run with that but I love drama I love dark stuff I love genre I love sci-fi i want to do it all i love horror so i'm like yeah don't don't sleep on me and think i'm just this one thing i don't know if it's a pressure but it's definitely a thing in my mind going oh no you're not gonna you're not gonna box me in yeah no no no so there yeah so i i i am always acutely aware because i know this business that's just it's just how it works isn't it because i think that's the hardest thing for any creative is where if you start getting applauded and things that you're like you're doing and then you can easily get pigeonholed in like because look we will have to pay pay the bills in some way and there are some opportunities where you're like okay that's a good opportunity I'm also able to I have to be conscious of what I'm also saying no to because I've still got bills to pay and this is a good opportunity if I would have looked at this maybe three years ago I would have jumped at the chance but where I am in my career is that the right thing to do as well and that must be so hard I always look at actors and like there must be so hard when like you're saying you want to live and you've got to work but you're like uh i don't know if this is the thing though yeah you know that must be very challenging for you i mean for me there's always this thing in the back of my mind going you can't be broke again you can't be broke again like that that that there's that because and then there's a part going well you can actually because you did it.

48:59So you know how to be broke. So I think if you take once that fear is taken off of actually, remember you always used to say you're not driven by the money, you're driven by the creativity and the art. And then they start giving you a little bit more money to do something and then a little bit more. And then you're like, maybe I am. And I think it's just for me having that conversation myself going, actually, no, you're here for this. Yes, you need to eat and you need to think strategically about how you're going to pay your bills. But when it's first and foremost about the creative stuff and what makes me happy and what drives me emotionally and spiritually and creatively, then I don't have a problem.

49:44when I start kind of getting that little niggly voice you can't be broke, you can't be broke then I think it starts being like okay well let's just, let's do this so for me I'm just chasing good stories that's it and I think if I am true to that I think I'll be okay but it is a little fight with a little thing at the back of my head trying to say, eat! Eat good food!

50:12Mo Gilligan: just order it now you're like I don't need it you do trust me bro you do man so like in terms of your end where you're at now well not so much where you're at now sorry but like in terms of your end do you look did you say in terms of your end where you're at now damn what I meant to say beginning middle end what I mean what I meant to say it's quite ominous now this this time flipping egg what i meant to say when you look at your end now like do you start picturing because you have you know uh your own drama company do you start looking at ways of how you want to start shaping like your legacy towards those things as an actor because i i see a lot of actors that have their own drama companies and i now in the business i understand that where you know it's a production company but a drama company and you're saying now how how you you do it for the love essentially you know you do it for the love there is a part where you do it for the money to to pay the bills but is your long-term love like helping the next generation yeah i've always been about building up other artists like that actually feels like a big part of my purpose it's just that's not as visible as the stuff I do in terms of being on screen or performing but for me like I yeah I have to nurture talent I'm I'm obsessed with other and community and creating things with other people and so for me if I'm if I'm building a legacy of anything I I think it's it's going to be in that I I want to create spaces for artists to who don't normally get their stories told I want I want to be able to be in a space where I can help make that happen I want to be in a space where we're also giving people skills and opportunities behind the camera because like it's all great us being visible but like it's actually you when you're in it and you're in decision over your work and over what you're you see when you start seeing this they're not necessarily looking you start going we need more people in the rooms like that that and and so i that's that's the thing that really excites me it's about um yeah not just not just opening doors but like breaking them down and reconfiguring them in in a different image and and having a massive effect on the industry.

52:57So I think to an extent, there are parts of that that I'm doing, but I want to be able to do that in a much more unapologetic way through arts companies and through my company. That excites me.

53:11Mo Gilligan: Yeah, I feel like the way that you collaborate with people has been so cool to witness on screen. And I can't imagine what that's like, you know, behind closed doors, we don't get to see the writers rooms and stuff but that just to see how you collaborate with people on screen it's like it's very cool to watch you're a very very good actress and i just believe that like i don't know you know like as i was saying it's like that kind of you're in that trajectory where you're in stuff and you're winning stuff and i feel like there's a glass you know we're all in this whatever career we're all in this kind of glass ceiling but it's it's whether we want to let that affect us in some ways where we're like cool there's a glass ceiling so I can only go this far so but also already hearing how you're like you know I like going to LA but I like coming home and it can be very easy to go and go where the grass is greener but knowing that that grass is only greener because it's mowed a different way and I kind of like that fresh grass back home that's got the mud in it and it's like you're saying to really plant and and grow out long term and take some of that stuff that they're using for their grass to maybe help our own as well yes because i do think that we've got a lot to learn from um what they do and the hustle mentality i know people aren't really on hustling anymore i think hustling that word has become a little bit of a dirty word i will always be a hustler um and so that mentality of people just making their own way and is only something that's new we're only just tapping into that in the uk and going, oh, that's the thing we're allowed to do that.

54:50And so there is stuff to learn. I think there's stuff they can learn from us too. But so I, yeah, so it's actually beautiful that I get to go and work there and see, you know, things that they do and on the level that they're doing it at and kind of hopefully nick some of that and make my own thing that feels like a bit of everywhere that I've been.

55:13Mo Gilligan: What's your impossible dream that you want to make your reality? I want to create an art space that never closes like a massive art space that there is space for people to make theatre. You can go there, you can watch the next round of plays that people are making. And then around the back, there is a place like this where you could record your podcasts and your music. And then there's space where there are incubator offices where people, creatives, are able to get three year scholarships where they don't have no money. They can just come, have this office and build up for three years with no bills to pay.

55:54And rehearsal space and studio space for dancers, this all encompassing art space. And it never closes. so you can go at whatever time and and and and do a do have a little rehearsal or have a thing or you know and and it be this and then there's around the back there's a there's a area where you can actually rent studio space and things and and stay there for a time as well i i really want yeah a place a safe space for artists to be able to work to collaborate to have community that is my big big dream yeah yeah oscar oh yeah that tune that was good

56:37yeah yeah yeah and then oscar he said hey hold on hey hold on hold on chop rice chop rice let's get a little after let's get the he got in there i call it a bigot right so we've got the b bigot uh so yeah i really see it happening for you i see i see

56:57Mo Gilligan: the fruits of your labor really come into fruition because just how i've seen how you are just your character but just most importantly like what you've been able to achieve on screen behind the screen the people you work with you know like kenji and samson like again it's like when you see how their careers are flourishing and like yourselves it's that's why people you you see people similar people work with each other and the same outcomes are happening do you know i mean and it's been a pleasure man it's been a pleasure to have you I know you've done my show as well it was on channel 4 as well I was so nervous doing that show I was like it's Ronan Keaton it's Ronan Gilligan and Ronan Keaton that was yeah that was great I like Ronan he's proper mad then he is he's really about this life man but it's been a pleasure man to have you on the pod thank you so much this has been your beginning middle and end thank you very much big ups man big ups big ups hey what's up thank you so much for listening to the podcast today.

57:56Mo Gilligan: Now, a lot goes into making each episode. I know you hear my voice, but there's a team behind the scenes who helped make it. And if you did enjoy it, I'd really, really appreciate if you could show the love to them by giving us five stars. And if you also have the time, please leave us a review. It's always appreciated and we love reading the comments. And of course, we want to keep making it better. Thank you for listening and have a great day. Peace.