How Sophie Willan Turned Her Life Into a Hit TV Show

0:00Hey, it's Paige from Giggly Squad, and I want to let you know that if you want the newest and hottest beauty products, you have to go to Sephora. I'm obsessed with the One Size Liquid Blotting Paper Spray. It's the first of its kind blotting spray that mattifies for up to eight hours. It's unreal. There's also the Summer Friday Shade Drops SPF 50, which basically lives in my bag at this point. Oh, and the Kayali Eden Plush Pear smells so good. It's sweet, warm, and addictive. like people literally stop me and ask what perfume I'm wearing which you know I love so if you want the makeup skincare hair and fragrance products everyone's about to be obsessed with shop only at Sephora hey what's up people my name is Mo Gilligan and right now you listen to my podcast beginning middle and end now today we have a BAFTA winning writer she has turned her incredible life into tv gold with her show Alma's Not Normal we get into her first taste of performing at the age of 10 in an ibiza hotel how she invited her head teacher when she got her phd and how motherhood has changed her life please welcome to the podcast the one the only sophie willin how you been in yourself though man good i'm well four months old my baby oh no yeah so four months so wait when i seen you that time we was at the bbc we did that was you pregnant then when was that that would have been i think maybe last year possibly i didn't i actually found out a year ago today that i was pregnant oh because it was the rts awards and then the next morning i did a test and i was pregnant oh it's a year today yes how are you finding it for so you're four months lovely i mean he's wonderful yeah i'm finding it how to go back to work yeah because actually i just realized i don't care at the minute yeah that's a strange thing isn't it I just want to be with him I've never been good at multitasking I'm quite tunnel vision so I've done a few little bits of filming and I'm just doing little projects like entertainment stuff but I'm writing a book so I'm just doing that but I think I'd rather just be with him how do you find that?

2:11I guess it's different for me as the man now I think the work has to mean something so I think that's what's changed of like now having children is like well i to wake up in the morning is it used to be just for me so i was like i want to try this thing and let's go there and yeah i'll do the show here where now it's just like okay there's so much relying on this job and it has to be a thing if it's not it's taking up my time then i'm like that's how i feel if i'm not enjoying it as well i'm not going to put myself in a stressful position yes yeah yeah because actually you're just taking away from him then yeah yeah yeah so did you buy a lot of um like because no one tells you this but like the amount of random baby stuff we bought that you realize we don't even need i didn't buy anything more really i went full gifting i just got on the hustle now i've never done that i really went for it i don't do it normally for myself i never did it but for the baby i just thought i'm doing it yeah everybody i've got free prams i've got free all the furniture in his room everything oh wow yes i think i bought well nothing actually no i got tommy tippy for free is it yeah the sterilizer and all of that yeah i did do the breastfeeding for a few i did about six weeks it wasn't for me well as you know i don't sit still very easily yeah yeah yeah and i just found it very hard to be tied you know it's a lot isn't it yeah i know it's better if there's two of you yeah but otherwise it costs a fortune doesn't it oh my god man what did you buy then that you thought so i'm like a gadgety person so the minute i could see that it was baby gadgets i was all over it oh my god like there was like machines that can make the bottle for you and then that That is good, though.

4:04Yeah, but the thing is, the problem is, is that you get a bit reliant on it. I wouldn't know how to do it without. Yeah, but then I think doing it without, you realise, you're like, this is actually a bit quicker, you know? Is it? Yeah, because, you know, you've got to put in the right amount, and then it gives you some hot, and it gives you some cold, and you're like... But then after that, it gets to the point where you're just like, all right, let me just pre-make these, just put in some hot water, put the powder in. Yeah, that's... All right, that's clever. And then you get to the point where you're like, oh, it's this easy.

4:31oh okay it's almost like a comfort like a security blanket yeah because the only other babies I've probably been around were my nephews who they're one of them's 18 now and one of them's like 11 but they're like the only other babies I think that I like really grew up with do you know what I mean yeah yeah like I didn't grow up because I was the youngest so I didn't grow up having no you were the one you were the baby yeah so I was the baby with a family but like yeah when it comes to you know you're counting and you're like okay how many is that four Yeah. All right, start again. I know. Oh, that's a nightmare when you get that wrong.

5:06Oh, my God, man. Well, I've been surprised because I've not grown up around loads of kids at all. Carnell's a massive family. So he's had loads of experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he thought he knew it all and he was quite cocky. But it's very different when you've got your own, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So actually, we're both learning. But I was very nervous at first. And then as soon as he arrived, it just comes naturally, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, of course. Are you still doing stand-up? No. I would like to. Yeah. I miss it. I've not done it for years. Do you remember when I first met you?

5:33Yes. At the Amuse Moose. You were very calm. Oh, thank you. I was panicking once I got stuck. You calmed me down. Do you know when I remember when I first met you was when we was backstage on the stairs? Yes. And I was just, I think for me, I was just so happy to be there. I was like, oh my God, I'm in Edinburgh and I'm doing this. And it definitely was the moment where I felt like this goes well. Yeah, and you were brilliant. Thank you very much. Likewise. Likewise. i remember telling polly about you oh did you because i remember and nothing to the other comics but i was like oh like i remember leaving and i was like you like it seeing seeing it means so much to someone else yeah just gave it a level of perception where you're like oh like oh like it meant a lot to sophie's it meant to me and i remember he was very nervous i was very nervous backstage i used to get very nervous with them competitions and actually edinburgh the whole thing yeah i used to be quite a worry part i mean i still worry but not the same actually i don't have that um but then i haven't done live gigs yeah so it's different isn't it yes yeah yeah you know but i love that atmosphere yeah even taskmaster when they do the live studio bit that was my favorite bit yeah because you're just showing off yeah yeah i guess because you've done the thing so now you've got the live audience to kind of play around with and stuff because i remember that very very vividly because i've generally thought at that stage of doing stand up i was like oh my god my life will change but also you went on with a very much a star quality oh thank you very much thank you i think i i didn't it was weird because they'd done that thing where they do like a first second third yes um there's some great comics in that as well yeah there was an ian smith hosted it didn't yes i remember thinking he was brilliant yeah because i now remember him because i think he was on the tv doing like a voiceover something so i'm like oh he's he's on the tv thing yeah some big shots here man yeah but i remember what was interesting about that it was able to what i was thinking about today i mean he was a guest it's like mapping out your journey in some ways and not to say that i've been there but it's like oh i remember doing a gig with you at the same time and we're both trying to make it on you know television and stuff.

7:45On the same generation, isn't it, of comedians, I suppose. But then also, the 360 for me was when I was at the BAFTAs and you picked up an award and you won. Oh, yeah. I was there that day as well. Were you there? Yeah, I was that day and you ran, you walked up, you weren't sure where the stairs was. I didn't have a clue. I got overexcited. I always do and I always think, you know what, next time I'll be graceful. You can't. And I don't know how to control myself. Last year at the RTS, I talked to myself before, I was like, if you win this time, so if I want you to go up and you know do your thanks and you know no titty shake just be really before not I'm running away away it's the adrenaline can't help her yeah it goes crazy and yeah I we've seen each other probably about a year ago and yes what really struck me is when we were speaking about scripting and stuff at the BBC yeah and you said about how like your your grandma's a huge inspiration yeah she is yeah and that kind of is where your journey starts in some ways because didn't she take you on like a she took to ibifa she went to you went to a drama club right she was at cafe del mar partying all night i joined the drama club yeah i loved it yeah you know that was my first kind of taste and then i just became obsessed with with writing and performing from a young age i used to read plays because i found it hard reading but actually reading plays was a lot easier they were where they were sort of set out on the page so you could see who the character was and what yeah and reading out loud i found easier so it helped me with my reading.

9:11Oscar Wilde, I loved Alan Bennett. I was quite an odd child really. Did you struggle with reading like material? Just attention. I've always struggled with my attention. I mean, everyone's got ADHD now. But actually, what I found with plays is I just could hold my attention more and I found reading out loud and maybe a kinetic learner yeah someone who's more you know physical it works for me and and i feel like you're always repping you're always repping bolton do you know i mean it gets a bit boring it don't i don't think it does no because i feel like it gives it if i talk about pasties you've got to stop me though i am a northern cliche yeah because i do love my past but you know why i think well it doesn't get boring because when i think of i go to manchester a lot i've got quite a lot of friends there.

10:03Yeah, Manchester, fabulous, yeah. But like, and it's not to say, Manchester's, it's like, you know, you've got clubs and you've got great nightlife there, the people are lovely, but it's until I go outside of like Manchester and I'm like, oh, I feel like I'm really up north now. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, you feel like you're in the country, it's weird. Bolton's a town, but it's a big difference, isn't it? Have you been to Bolton? I've not been to Bolton. I can't imagine you'll go. I can't. I might go there, you know. What for? If I had a gig there and there was enough people to come. If you have a gig there, I wouldn't go.

10:36I wouldn't go. No, it's all right. It's a lovely... I love it because it's my hometown. I took Carmel. He was like, fucking hell, this is awful. He was not impressed. He's grown up in London all his life. It's a different... But you've got people like Peter Kay from Bolton as well. Yeah, we're funny in Bolton because you've got to have a sense of humor to live there. Is Paddy McGinnis from Bolton as well? yeah Sarah Cox is from Bolton yes yeah yeah Ian McKellen I think is from Bolton Ian McKellen is it Ian McKellen one of them like proper actors you know like read minds Ian McKellen oh no we're talking about a guy from from X-Men sorry no who are you talking about Ian McKellen he's from X-Men no he's an actor Shakespearean actor he's an actor yeah I thought you meant a psychic yeah yeah yeah no I'm thinking of the other guy Paul McKenna I think it was I don't know who that is yeah I think he said read minds and do magic he could be from Bolton that sounds about right yeah but like what was he like in terms of how did that start to build your character for you to become like who you are now in some ways because you're very bubbly you're very humorous you're very honest and like you also like have this really like charming way of like like you care but you also have a party so I don't really give a shit I just want to do what I want to do do you know what I mean I don't know I don't know if I don't give a shit I suppose I've always known what I wanted to do so that determination is always quite good because you're focused on that yeah yeah and I've always had self belief in that area that I'm you know I'm a creative person and I never feel that that'll run out I think we're lucky as creatives because if something doesn't quite work there's always another avenue there's always different options yeah you know not many people have that in other careers but what I mean by you don't give a shit you seem very no nonsense you're very much I remember doing shows with you you're like come on alright alright let's go come on more we've got to we've got to do it because the people are waiting there.

12:28You just crack on. What's that? Have you been watching Emmerdale? Yeah. That's what I'm saying. That's my Manchester default. It's not bad, actually. It could be worse. Whenever I've got a show anywhere up north, that is my default to be like. Do you do that to them? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they've let you come back. Oh, no, they absolutely love it. Because I love doing shows up north. I love doing shows here down south, but up north, like, the audiences are so, they give it to me and they take here and they're so fun. They just, yeah. Manchester's a particularly good one, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

13:02And Newcastle, actually. I find that. Yes, I've done Newcastle a few times. Yeah. Why, I, man? Why, I, man? Up to the time, are you? That's terrible. I wouldn't be doing that. I've tried that. When I do that one, it's like, all right, you can chill out. You did all right when you got to Yorkshire. I wouldn't go above. Why, I used to always say, my line, whenever I go to Newcastle, there used to be a footballer called Shola Amiobi. So whenever I do that in an accent like why hey man fucking fucking sure i'm you but i'd say it the whole day and my friends are like bro chill please stop it's not funny sometimes you get one word don't you yeah yeah yeah yeah why do we all do that why do i always go i think it would do it on biker grove i don't know what i know they probably don't even say that no in newcastle but for me it's like that and trousers.

13:51Your man can't frankly fucking trousers. Fucking trousers? Everything's got a foot in front of it. I don't know where it comes from. It's weird. But like you also got expelled like. I did get expelled. You got expelled in school. Yes I did. I was quite naughty. But I always had the plan was that I wanted to be an actress and a performer and a writer. So I think I was almost a little bit cocky really. I thought I don't need this. So you knew from early that's what you wanted to do. I said I'll get a calculator. I was quite and I had a lot going on at home so i think i wasn't very good at focusing i used to find it very difficult to sit down in a classroom you know i've never been good at that yeah um i used to wander around the class even when i was little you know in in primary school they we used to play games and i think it's because the teacher wanted a break so he'd do wink murder with you oh yeah yeah you know you'd be winked and you'd be dead and i'd hate her you'd be sat there for dead for ages so i used to get a sign that just said dead like an out of office sign and i'd just go for a walk yeah yeah i think that sums it up i thought the educate you'd sat all the time and i didn't like it yeah so i was out so i'm skiving off a lot so yes i did i did arrive drunk in a bikini that is true so you arrived drunk in a bikini well it was very hot day in bolton okay they only come months a decade you know it's funny isn't it with things because they become a tagline but it was a series of events that at the time felt very logical yeah it's a sunny day yeah we were having some beers on the field.

15:20How old are you this time, roughly? 15. Okay. The batteries in my stereo ran out and I knew that in the tech block they had batteries. So I just thought, I'll leave my sunbathing for a second and I'll just nip in, steal some batteries for the stereo and I got caught in the middle. That was how that happened. So... We were on the school field at the back. Okay, yes. Having a sunbathe, you see. Yeah, yeah. Sunbathing at break, I'm guessing break time. No, no, I was not in... The field's here and the school's there, they can't see you. So I just had my own day. So you just bunked off, basically? I used to do guest appearances by that point.

15:56Oh, really? I was just quite naughty. I mean, it wasn't for me. But you're 15 at this point, right? Yeah. When I left school, I was all right, actually. As soon as I left and I could focus on what I wanted to do. Yeah. You know, I just needed that focus. But you know what? It's interesting you say that because at 15, I feel like it's weird because sometimes in school, you kind of know what you want to do. I always knew, yeah. Do you know what I mean? You're like, oh, let's wrap this up, man. I know, I did the same. And I thought, this is a waste of my time. Yes. I think I had an entrepreneurial attitude.

16:27I was like, hours could be doing other things. Yeah, because I got to like 16 and I knew I wanted to do performing arts. Yeah. I liked drama. I liked science. I didn't want to pursue it, but I liked it. What kind of science? But just, you know, anything like practical where we get to get a Bunsen burner and burn it. Any of that stuff practical, I was here for some stuff educational I loved Ari I loved learning about different faiths and religions and stuff yeah I loved Ari I loved the philosophy side of it yeah and I think everything else I struggled a lot in school so for me you know at that point 15 yeah and my dad would also give me a lot of you know when I go to my dad's on the weekend he'd give me his version of yeah you know history and where I'm from and stuff like this and you know he's and then he's telling me about books I should read and explaining it.

17:16So by 15, it wasn't so much I felt like I knew it all, but I definitely was at a point where I'm like, I know what I want to do after this. I've only got a year left. And I'm sitting in an exam being like, I know I'm not going to take algebra to anywhere with me in life. Have we ever used it? I still don't even understand it. Was it Pythagoras theorem? Something to do with an apple. I don't know how many apples Sam's got. You know what? It's like, I respect it. And I'm always in awe of people that are great with maths. I always sit there and I'm like, I wish I was really good. But also I know I'm like, well, it weren't ever going to be my calling.

17:48No, I think you kind of know, don't you? So in a way you just want to go, you know, just focus. Yes. So why did you struggle then with school? I think for me, I was dyslexic. I didn't know what dyslexia was. I think back then it was just like, you've got learning difficulties. But at the same time, I was like, I just, I was also in denial of like, I don't have learning difficulties. I just don't like this lesson. Yeah. Yeah, well, if there's nothing being, like, there's no solutions, that's really frustrating, isn't it? Yeah, because I think for a lot of young people, especially at 15, 16, they get to a point where they're like, I don't know, but no one was able to break down what dyslexia was or give me a way to explain it.

18:28Only until I left, went uni, and I'm like, oh, I get why my brain reacts like this when it sees numbers or words or retaining information. so then I started to understand but I think what's really interesting of what you were saying about you know you're 15 and you're like well I'm making an appearance but then where did you have the kind of because I'm so intrigued to where you are able to be someone who's on stage but also someone who's able to sit down and write and you know create a script yeah well I love writing it's hard isn't it i've always been a hard-working person i've just needed to channel it in the right areas yeah and i think what for me school didn't fit but i was really keen to get going as soon as i left school do you know what i mean i just wanted to be in the right environments and also i had a lot of stuff at home and things that i needed to work through yeah it was when i went to contact theater in manchester when i would have been about 19 18 19 that's when it really happened for me yeah so i joined a youth theater there and then i set up a theater company and then we looked at getting funding and then i did a course in being a producer and then learned that sort of skill so i think it was probably there i got to fine tune it yeah yeah you know but i think the discipline i've always had with writing yeah you know because i used to write even as a kid so it's not you know it's not that the thing that makes you sit and go oh this is i've got to write this thing two hours a day is the best i think you just do two hours a day they say that's your best two hours don't they and then after that leave it alone leave it alone for at least for a bit or have a break and then you can go back to it but a minimum of two hours a day and then you should be pleased with yourself yeah yeah so how was it for you because like i feel like we was on this we was on the circuit at a similar time yeah and i remember you very vividly being on Cirque we've done shows together and we were at the creek or whatnot and stuff and then you get into a place of writing and you know you write armor's not normal and what was that feeling like when you're finally like oh someone likes my script or my thing or I think what was fab was when I moved to stand up because I realized my voice fitted a lot better in that world rather than theater but also you know you do so many hours at something and then finally what you imagining your head comes off on the page which was a whole thing yeah because often i'd make things and it becomes something completely different because so i think that's like when you're starting to master the craft of what you're doing yeah yeah and then with the pilot i was very pleased with how that went but right in the series the first series i'd never done that before that was very hard work because you i think obviously you know because you've written one i you write your independent individual storyline of each episode but then it's got to thread all the way through and i'd have millions of drafts of that and then the second series it didn't take me as many drafts i noticed there was a you kind of knew the patterns yeah i think so you get there quicker don't you when you know you know so would you say that the pilot is sometimes a bit harder because you're kind of putting all the eggs into one basket and then also you don't know what you're doing you're creating something for the first time aren't you the whole world and everything you know and the tone of it you know it's completely up to you which direction you're going yeah and that can actually be more difficult i found i had loads of versions of that i think i was quite lucky with expectation you know and polly was very helpful with that as well just making sure it was my vision and i got to stick with what i wanted and not having too many people feed in too early because i think that can really break a script actually if it if it's because then it's just too many voices it has to be your voice first yeah and then it you know gets honed down doesn't it what i've always thought is amazing is that like you've always like you've received like grants like you know like theater collective where you know they help you learn about you know how to apply and stuff like this how has that been beneficial to you in your journey as well because you know sometimes they're the things that happen in the background and you only see the you know the the end of the light or the the trophy at the end yeah yeah uh so i used to write like arts council bids for if i was doing a show so the good thing about that was that actually you'd have to explain what you wanted to do in detail and then you'd have to justify it so actually by the time you got to making the show or being creative you were coming from every angle of it you know what's the social implications of this show what's the political what's the you know so actually gives you a really wide understanding of what you're doing creatively which I think really does shape it so when I think of Alma actually for me it was always like what's the social point that I'm trying to make especially each episode has its own social point or question not telling people what they should feel but a question and I think that's coming from because I did arts cancel applications you'd think in that way you know differently to just all right this is a funny episode and i'm just gonna explore this thing it's got to have a point for me you know so you think that people know that information is available as well for them to get funding to help them make i don't think so and to be honest i did arts council funding a long time ago you know if i look now at people doing grants it's really hard i mean there's hardly any money left and they make it so difficult to get that funding.

23:58I was in a lucky time, really. Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, what's really cool about what you've done is that it's such a 360-like thing where, you know, seeing you at the BAFTAs and, you know, winning, but also knowing that, like, when it's come to your journey, you've done it very organically as well. Do you think? Yeah, because when you think of, like, a lot of people don't know that they can even get funding for a project. No, that's true, yeah. You know what I mean? Well, it was theatre first and that world, and then I went into stand-up. You went in quite late, didn't you, to stand-up, were you?

24:33Well, I was 19, but I think... Oh, were you? Gosh, right. Yeah, but the thing is, it's weird. When I say I started at 19, it's just doing open mic gigs. How old are you now? 38. So you're my age. Just turned 38. So we were starting at the same time. I think that was quite late, though. Or did you start before that, then? No, 19 was when I started, but like when i'm started i think for me it was definitely just open mics and just right yeah like i knew i was doing stand-up but i didn't really have a usp of really who i even was no i didn't have a clue of any of that i mean like the first couple of gigs i'm just talking about yeah you know you go to the bar and you've got no money so you've got to drink ice cubes and like it was funny to my peers and for me it was definitely like a way to build my confidence on stage yes so you did your hours doing it like that oh yeah but i was definitely winging it sometimes sometimes i turn up and i'm like i don't know what i'm doing it's quite amazing that isn't it yeah yeah you know i wished it like yeah i don't wish that there was social media because now you can be a comic and you can create your social media have your clips on which i think is amazing for comics now the gatekeepers you know don't have as much power there isn't there isn't that power anymore but there is also you know comics still going to edinburgh which i still encourage a lot of comics to do i'm like go there like even you might not need to put a show on but just experience you want to see yeah you just want to see that this thing is available because sometimes i've gone to other countries and that doesn't exist in any realm yeah i mean you have to look for to find i want to watch some theater i want to watch some comedy and yeah sometimes there is this conversation of like do we still need it and like i do think there is a purpose out there for some comics and I think for some comics it might not be where you're going to find your audience I think it's just it'd be nice for the pressure to come off it that I think it got to a point where it was so much pressure on people and it was a lot of money I mean I remember going up there you know it was like come on every day I've got a yeah you felt like a marine you had a show on there as well and everything I had on record there and then branded um and actually I look back now and I think god that was so stressful why why would we you know at the machine you know I just think, no, I don't fuck off, actually.

26:45A little bit. And I think there was just too many people with too much power. So I think what's great about the online stuff is it just redresses a bit of balance. There are options now. So it's great to have Edinburgh, but it shouldn't have the control and power that it had. You know, people are having nervous breakdowns up there. Oh, no, people are losing it. And it's hard because it's like... I was talking to myself going for a swim every day. You're all right. It's going to be... You know, it's too much. I wouldn't put myself through it now. I look back and think, God, no. I do think, though.

27:15Your galley knows, don't you, galley? It was hell on earth, wasn't it? I do think it was a very serious time. Do you know what I think? What is good for Edinburgh is weirdly going there just to find out if your audience is there. Yes. And I think it's different. And it's lovely because actually what it should, I think it should be, is a chance to perform your show every day for 20 days and that'd be a fabulous experience. Because it is, it's wonderful being in front of an audience. but I think we just need to take that pressure off especially new comedians you know even now they're going up new comedians and they're getting so like their life depends on being nominated and it's all those things you think actually let's just I think it's that it's that pressure but it's also knowing that yeah it's like well if this goes well it could change my life yeah and it's just like hey it's Paige from Giggly Squad and I want to let you know that if you want the newest and hottest beauty products, you have to go to Sephora.

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29:18I don't, it's not, I never want to say to a comic that that's not what it's going to do. Yeah. But it will definitely let you know if you're cut out for it. Absolutely. And I think that's stand up. I don't think it's just Edinburgh. I think that's about doing the hours of the gigs though. It's not about the politics. it's about being on stage being with an audience every day and that's fabulous and that's what needs to be the focus every day just in a room and there might be 100 people one day might be 10 people the next day that is where you have to work and you're like I've got to work I've got to entertain them and not looking for overnight success that's the thing isn't it if you're rushing too much the impatience the biggest lesson I think I got from Edinburgh was going there and we had to essentially work for our food I just quit my job.

30:05I think I was at Rees. I quit my job at Rees, handed in my notes. I said, because I couldn't get the whole month to go. Yeah, the menswear shop. So I told them, look, I'm leaving. Because I couldn't get the whole summertime is when sales on, left. But the biggest lesson, I had to work for my food. So when I say that is I didn't have any money. And literally, we're doing a show. whatever we're making our bucket is the money that we would eat like I didn't have oh mate can you borrow me£100 because I didn't have the money to borrow to then pay back and then I'm waiting on like maybe an invoice to clear in two months but it was quite good when you were doing it yourself wasn't it the flyering yeah I did the same did you do it yourself flyering not on record and branded before that I'd gone up with the solo show and what I used to do is frog march people literally up to the to buy tickets for the following day okay and if i sold 30 tickets for the following day i'd let myself go home because that was half the amount it was a 60 seater so i'd do that most days you know basically that is a hustle well you had to because i thought i don't want to get tomorrow stressed because my i had an early show it was 1 p.m so i thought you know you fly you in but who's around so i'd stay after the show and do that for hours and hours so i got my 30 people and then on the day if you had minimum 30 that's alright and then often more and I had to sell out run actually it was not bad yeah so me and Kate Curd we split an hour I done 30 minutes he done 30 minutes oh yes but yeah going up there and handing out flat because we had a 12 o 'clock show so we're just literally getting the tourists that wake up and just want to go to something and the old ladies yeah we had people that were just like well I'll go and check these guys out bearing in mind Kate does 30 minutes so I do 30 minutes.

31:56Yeah. How was that? It was interesting, you know, staying in a hostel and there's one guy, he was a shared bathroom and he left a poo in the toilet. Never forget that. And it was like... This is an Edinburgh story. Yeah, I was so disgusted. But it let me know that this is... Like, I get to go home after this. But also it was a crash course in realising I've got to work for my food. my audience's not here i'm enjoying performing i'm just not enjoying this level of performing that's it and also you can enjoy the performing it's all the other added pressures i think they could just relax yeah and i think that's happened a little bit now with yeah there being other avenues it's not the only avenue and i think that's always helpful isn't it so like because it gives if it's only avenue it gives it too much power yeah and i think now for comics it just feels so much more like there's a bit more choice out there.

32:54I hope anyway, you know, for the comics out there, whether it's a comedy club that helps you and you're there every week. It just feels like there's a bit more choice and it isn't just, oh man, if I go on this I might get 8 out of 10 cats or mock the week. And if that goes well, I can do it all. And that's not really artistic as well. It's not being, you know, because you want to be in your creative element, thinking about being creative, not, oh, I'd love to sit next to Jimmy Carr. Nothing wrong with him. But, you know, that shouldn't be the ambition, I don't think. Yeah. You know. Yeah. In terms of ambition, I'm so happy that things are working out for you.

33:30What was it like, though, when you won your first BAFTA? Because you won it in lockdown as well. And I won one in lockdown as well. Yes, you did, yeah. Yeah. So how was it for you? Because I don't know if you had this, but I remember being on a Zoom. It was weird. Everyone's on a Zoom. Did you have that as well? Yeah, and it popped up. Yeah. I really wasn't expecting it, because I wasn't expecting to be nominated. I didn't even know I was in the list. Yeah. Did you not know? Well, I've nominated... No, I think... I didn't know I was in... I think Polly might have told me. I didn't know I was in a long list or anything.

34:03No, no, no. So when the shortlist came out, I was shocked, because we'd only done the pilot episode of Alma, and I was currently filming the series. Yeah. And we found out on set, so I thought it was a joke. It was weird, because my grandmother, who's a big influence, and she'd passed away the night before. No, actually, it was the same night, wasn't it? I was filming Alma. We were in week one of filming a six-week show. It was 9pm. It was a super pink moon, which Grandma loved. She thought she was some sort of, you know, witch. She was like, oh, these are my moons. And she died on this moon, which was quite a thing.

34:37And then I got a phone call at 9. She died at 9 o 'clock. And at 9.02, I got a message saying, like, congratulations. I didn't understand that. I thought someone was being really weird, you know, congratulating me that grandma passed away. I didn't get it. The next morning I realised the moment that she passed away, I'd been nominated for a BAFTA, which was just bizarre because she'd always been so positive. So that felt quite, you know, it was quite magical, really, quite emotional. And then when we actually sat down, I dressed up for it, even though we were in lockdown, we were filming, I put a sequined dress on in this barn I was staying in.

35:16And then they said, my name, I couldn't believe it. I just went absolutely nuts, actually. I kept running around. We were staying on a farm. Yeah. And I ran around a tractor. I woke all the neighbours up. It was wild. But were you the same? I mean, I just couldn't. You're very relaxed, aren't you? No, I didn't think I would win. I remember the people in my category, I think it was entertainment performance. Yes. It was for your show, wasn't it? yeah so the first one was n10 performance and i was i didn't even get the category so i'm like so this is my performance in my show yeah i'm like well of course i'm gonna perform it's my show i didn't know there was a category for it so i think it was graham norton frankie boyle and lee mac and i remember just being like look at this category i'm like and i was just so happy to be nominated i was honestly like i was just like wow i'm nominated i was just like couldn't believe i've been nominated i couldn't believe it and magical and because it was in lockdown you know i remember the night before and i never think i never forget this i remember going to the bathroom just before i was going to go to bed and i was like i'm not going to dress up i'm just going to wear a hoodie on i'm not going to win anyway so you went down the defeatist dressing But this was when I was in the bathroom just ready to go to bed.

36:40And I looked in the mirror and I said to myself, I think I might win. You had a feeling? I had this weird feeling. And I was like, no, I'm going to put a shirt on because I feel like I might win. I think I might just win. And then I've always had this weird premonition of whenever I've done like any award show and I'm nominated, you know, when they do the VTs and coming up, we had to do a rehearsal of it. But they don't say who wins. This is in the afternoon of the BAFTAs. You mean you have to do a thank you very much, like accepting of your... Yeah, so they say, oh, guys, we're on Zoom. So basically, we're going to show you BT, and then it's going to cut to who the winner is.

37:18Now, when they show the highlights, I was the first one that they show. So I was like, this happened before another award show. The first one that came up, and I was like, I'm not going to win. I don't know why, but I was like, this happened last time. And already, I'm like, no, it happened twice. I was like, I'm not going to win this. I'm not going to win now. Because you were on first. You thought. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we'd done the Zoom. Like you said, everyone was on the Zoom and you had like, you know, Jodie Comer there and everyone else. And I'm like, oh, everyone. I'm looking at everyone's house.

37:48Yeah, yeah. I was like, let's see everyone's house. It's like. Well, I should have done that. Then they called my name. And I remember because I was wearing a pair of grey shorts, but I put a shirt on because I wasn't. No one's going to see. That was the lockdown way, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just a shirt here, pajamas. It's when Zoom was new. Yeah. Yeah. you know it was a zoom it was skype before yeah but um yeah i remember i jumped for joy but i couldn't tell anyone because it was in the afternoon couldn't tell them until the live show went out so then um i remember just telling all my friends i was like guys like tune in for the baftas like and all my friends were like yeah did you win and i was like i didn't but just tune in and i'm nominated so you couldn't say i couldn't say i didn't want to spoil it for them right but um it was exciting wasn't it feel like your life when you won that was gonna change or things might happen for you i think it did it did feel like that but it was the biggest thing that had ever happened to me i suppose in career terms yeah and i was currently filming the first series of alma and my grandma passed away so it's like a massive transitional period everything was shifting yeah you know you have those moments in your life don't you i think we're just you know it's like every seven years or something there's a big shift and that felt like the kind of beginning of a new chapter very much yeah yeah it was it was amazing actually i've got three now you've got four aren't you i've got three you've got three yeah come on yeah oh i'm gonna mess Let's do that again.

39:13Let's do that again. It's quite short. You're supposed to look at the elbow. That's better. People are going to be like, he can't even high five. Well, third time looking. Three bastards.

39:34But in 2000, is it 2022? You got a honorary doctorate? Doctorate. Doctorate. Yeah. from the University of Bolton for your contribution to television and comedy how does that feel? because you're someone that got expelled from school but then you get this honour from Bolton University yeah, it was nice actually well I prepared my speech because I wanted it to be for the young people because they were all going to be there so I think that was what I wanted to focus on really it was kind of the speech I did was a love letter to writing and love letter to young people of going, once you find your thing, you know, you keep hold of that.

40:14It felt like a real celebration of that because I'd been expelled and all of that. But actually what I'd had is always had this passion for writing. So it felt, you know, really celebrated. I took my old headmaster who'd expelled me, actually. Oh, really? So that was quite fun because we do get on quite well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I put him on Would I Lie to You as well. Oh, really? Yeah. He's a right diva, actually. He loves all the showbiz. she's like yes i expelled her actually he loves that yeah what would you say to like a you know a younger sophie that wanted to you know get into the world of you know script writing and creating their own series because i think for anyone one is a lot of people are like can i write the thing and i've written and you must meet a lot of people you know we we've done a talk together at the BBC and you know I had people asking me and I'm like bro I'm just I'm in the same I know I'm in a different place but I'm still trying to get my thing on the ground as well as your thing so it's very difficult I could definitely not advise them you know in terms of where to go now because I think everything's really difficult isn't it you know I think probably your route that you did online and building that way is probably yeah and I feel like the industry's changing so much.

41:34I mean, I actually went to go and do a talk in Oldham at the college there and a lot of these young people were saying, how do we get into the industry if we've no money and, you know, times being as difficult as they are. What I don't want to do is say, well, what do you need to do? You know, because actually times are really difficult and different for young people now, aren't they? I suppose the only thing you can talk about is the creative process and kind of, you know, inspiring. Hey, it's Paige from Giggly Squad, and I want to let you know that if you want the newest and hottest beauty products, you have to go to Sephora.

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43:14I suppose, you know, sticking clear to your own vision and things like that, but actually saying logistically, I think it's very, very difficult, isn't it? because I guess it's one thing to be a stand-up because you can just go to where the stage is or you find the night in school and it's the hard I get people ask me all the times oh I want to write a film and like how do I do it and I'm like I don't know I don't know where I would go if I had a film do you know what I mean and who do I take it to how do you get it um yeah and so do you find that now you want to be positioned in a place where you are able to give people you know advice because you know you've done it in a way where you have been able to get funding from places to help you know other projects that you've had i mean i used to do a lot of mentoring particularly with care experience people who wanted to go into our industries and i still do a little bit of that and obviously that talk we did at bbc was great because we've got people who are really new and working in the industry they're getting these you know it was a bursary scheme wasn't it training scheme yeah and they're asking you pragmatic practical questions yeah you know that i feel i've got i've i can be helpful you know would i know where to send someone for the first time now wanting to become an actor i wouldn't actually that's the the sad thing isn't it i'd probably say get involved with your youth theatres you know contact theatres gone but if you're in manchester home mti it's just more difficult isn't it yeah yeah of course i think because i i think that's my biggest worry for the newer yeah younger generation where it feels like instagram and tiktok are great to build a platform on yeah but i think it's getting to the next level yeah it's the hardest it must be the hardest thing ever because you know now you do have these you know instagram influencer agencies which are great discovering talent but i guess it's the development of you know the person that's doing sketches and like i want to do a sketch but i want to write my own you know my own film and stuff and that feeling like that's achievable as opposed to i hear that but let's just do the brand stuff yes i know that is really difficult it's a completely different industry i think to what we started and even just 10 years ago yeah yeah yeah yeah you know yeah so yeah it's very difficult i mean i do work with care leavers still but i think you also have to be careful not taking on too much and offering too much and then not being able to deliver do you know what i mean yeah yeah what i'm really pleased with is is when you can offer actual practical support so we did a paid training scheme for on almas not normal on the pilot and then on the series we did it bigger and then on the second series we did it even bigger and i really pushed for that especially on that first series and i think that's great because rather than you just telling people what they should and shouldn't do and spouting off you know actually giving pragmatic yeah opportunities so they worked in different departments you know some shadowed a director or some shadowed set design and skill sets i don't have you know especially for up north as well because sometimes people feel like you have to come especially for up north as well yeah well i think now there's loads up there you know it's probably and bolton they filmed everything up there peaky blinders everything was filmed in bolton because I thought I'd be going back to Bolton being the star.

46:37Yeah, yeah, yeah. And actually there was like four other productions when I got this. I was like, oh, great. You know, it was ridiculous. Yeah. Because it's quite cheap to film up there and they've gotten on. So, you know, it really is the Hollywood of the North now, Bolton. Do you miss it now that you live here in London? No. No? No, I don't miss the North. I love going back and visiting, but I like being in London. I also like the anonymity a bit because you know up north when you've got a TV show that's northern and you're from the north there is an ownership and that can be a bit exhausting whereas down here they couldn't give a shit do you know what I mean like Liz Hurley lives around the corner they're not bothered about me I was in Bolton and it's like can I have a cell phone and it gets really like that and I find that quite claustrophobic yeah you know do you feel like with the show that it's been able to really connect with people because i feel like people can probably see themselves yeah in the show as well you know that i love you know i really wanted the social service system to have more empathy i even said that to my mum's social worker i was like what is you've done all this training and yet you lack empathy like what is that and that was something i was really passionate about and now they show calmer in the universities across the country to social workers to training up oh wow they show it as part of their kind of education on how to deal with people and i love that you know that for me is a in a way bigger than a bafta yeah you know i think that's you know and so i know it's connected with a lot of people and that is wonderful you know people who are like my mother people who are like myself who's grown up with a mum like that and you know and also just women and and and families intergenerational trauma you know you can see it in the three generations in alma yeah and actually you know that connects with most people really and and now you're in a place where like you know you've won the baftas and you you live now here in london and you're writing a book got a book coming out as well um i've never done that before you've done it haven't you i have it is one of the best things I think I've ever done.

48:48Really? Right, okay. Because I didn't realise how important, I know literature is important, but when you write a piece, and you know, you get it checked, and you write and you look at it, and realising, I think it really made sense to me when I seen it in a bookshop. Not when I went to visit it when it first came out, I just went into a Waterstones once, I was like, I wonder if they sell my book here, let's have a look. And I seen it there, and this was about a year or two later and I was like, oh, it's still here. Did you go and sign any copies? You can do that. You're allowed, aren't you, just to pick one up and sign it.

49:22I didn't know that. Well, I don't know if you are allowed, actually. My friend Lemsis does it all the time. He gets dead. He's 50-odd now. He's been published millions of times and he still gets so excited and he goes and signs it, which is lovely. Yeah, I didn't know that because I did do signed copies that people could buy. But I think the most amazing thing i've ever had is where i a lady came up to me in the street and she was like oh my god i your book absolutely loved it like it made me feel like i was a part of your journey yeah and it was like oh because i'm so used to instant gratification yeah so i'm used to going on stage getting a laugh doing a tv show did you like it comedy special goes out what's the reviews like you don't get that with any writing with a book it's different yeah yeah that takes you know a long time doesn't it and i think that's the beautiful thing with with a book that i realized and mine was also a selection of just memoirs that led me up to where i was at that point in my life i was i didn't want to do a biopic just yet i'm still really quite young and yes i've lived but not enough to put that in a book but um the the greatest thing i think i've ever done i'll always lay testament to that because it just means that that is that part of my life is just in a book Yeah, and it's great because you've had kids as well.

50:42So actually what's lovely is they've got this legacy. This is what I always say, yeah. Which is actually what I'm doing with my book. It's written for Elijah. So is that what you want your legacy to be in some ways? Well, this book I want to write for Elijah. So it's going to be a series of short stories based on my own experiences and think pieces. Yeah. Information I'd like to pass on to him as an adult that I probably can't tell him now because I'd like to have parental boundaries. Yeah, yeah. It's a beautiful name, by the way. It's a lovely name, Elijah. Elijah. I'm dedicating it to him and it's going to be a short story.

51:10So think pieces and they'll stand alone, you know, if you're reading it. But I know it's for him. You know, it's kind of my advice to him or what I've learned, you know, through my wild life, I suppose. Yeah. And is that what you kind of summarise your legacy to be in some ways to have stuff to leave behind? Elijah will be my legacy, won't it really? It's a funny one, isn't it? When you have a baby, because I feel like everything I've done before, now I'm thinking about in a different way. All my crude jokes even, you know, I was on like, nevermind the buzzcocks talking about, you know, cock eating cocks or something disgusting.

51:46And then I was like, oh my God, my adult son is going to see this. I really need to think who I want to be and how I present myself. So I'm in a transition at the moment, which is why this book will be quite good for me to do actually. I think, I literally think everyone is, once they have children, yeah you're like oh okay who am i yes yeah yeah yeah yeah i find myself on sunday at church just be like yes hands in the air and stuff wherever it's you know fast forward like me 10 years ago it would be like hangover being out in the club yes i'm like i need a dominoes at like one in the afternoon and that was miserable actually yeah yeah yeah when you look at it now you wouldn't want it now good times yeah yeah yeah i think it's the the things that life bring the unexpectedness is when you go, oh, this is different.

52:34I'm a parent now. I've got to wipe this child's nose. Yeah, and also you're thinking, I've got a little boy, and I'm bringing this man into the world, and that's a big responsibility. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, especially with all this manosphere stuff, I find that quite intense, you know. And also just thinking, like, what is your responsibility as a woman, you know when you're raising a son and also he's mixed race so there's a responsibility there to him you know about his identity and how he kind of sees the world and you know how he feels connected to both parts of himself and getting to decide who he wants to be on his own terms and there's just so much isn't that and we obviously are public speakers and we do we put a lot of stuff out there so it's also about thinking carefully about how that will impact him later it's a lot isn't it it's only been four months but it's such a pleasure to have you on a podcast it's lovely to be here to see your journey and I'll never forget sitting in those stairs backstage at the Amuse Moose yes I'll never forget that because I remember just me and yourself and I was like and I think you would come back because I remember you was pacing up and down I think I was asking for your advice I was so nervous and you were so calm I was like how do you stay so calm and you were really lovely and I'd never forget that but also I remember just being like this woman's going to do so well because she was so funny but just so like like your stand up was funny but also I felt like being there at that time I was like oh like she's going through what I go through and it doesn't feel like yeah but it doesn't feel like a single experience do you know what I mean so to see you winning BAFTAs being there at the same time as well you know seeing you collect the award and stuff you know i mean it's it's so amazing honestly sophie try another one but come on let's do it man come on man elbow to elbow

54:39no it's fabulous with you you've done amazing oh thank you so much sophie man but listen this has been your beginning middle and end thank you so much sophie really really really appreciate that Amen. Hey, what's up? Thank you so much for listening to the podcast today. Now, a lot goes into making each episode. I know you hear my voice, but there's a team behind the scenes who helped make it. And if you did enjoy it, I'd really, really appreciate it if you could show the love to them by giving us five stars. And if you also have the time, please leave us a review. It's always appreciated and we love reading the comments.

55:12And of course, we want to keep making it better. Thank you for listening and have a great day. Peace. hey it's Paige from Giggly Squad and I want to let you know that if you want the newest and hottest beauty products you have to go to Sephora I'm obsessed with the one size liquid blotting paper spray it's the first of its kind blotting spray that mattifies for up to eight hours it's unreal there's also the summer friday shade drops spf 50 which basically lives in my bag at this point oh and the K. Alley Eden plush pear smells so good it's sweet warm and addictive like people literally stop me and ask what perfume I'm wearing which you know I love so if you want the makeup skincare hair and fragrance products everyone's about to be obsessed with shop only at Sephora