Kane Brown: Resilience, Real Talk, and the Art of Reinvention

0:00Mo Gilligan: Yes, what's good people? My name is Mo Gilligan and if you're listening right now, you're tuned in to the podcast The Beginning, Middle and End. Now my guest this week is a personal comedic inspiration of mine. Bursting onto the black comedy scene and soon becoming one of the most recognisable faces in the game. He has gone on to achieve huge mainstream success with live shows, TV work and most recently mentoring and producing new comedians. Joining me today to talk about his brand new up and coming tour, which is called Crowdwork King, which he's going to be making up the material on the spot.

0:38Mo Gilligan: Please welcome to the podcast, the goat himself, Kane Brown. So you're from, you said you're from South, right? Yeah, Lewisham. You're from Lewisham? Yeah. But did you grow up in, did you grow up in West London? No, no, no, no, South. So I'm from like Lehigh Road. Yeah. so I grew up yeah I was born Lucian Hospital grew up Lehigh Road and so anyone on Lehigh Road knows my family oh yeah so my mum's side of the family Lehigh Road my dad's side of the family was Broccoli wait I didn't think I didn't know you was from south like that yeah I'm south south I don't know why I thought it was from like Hammersmith or Acton or somewhere like that in West London nah is it but I never grew up with them type of money there oh right nah nah I didn't know you but you don't come across as a south south a south Londoner I'll tell you why.

1:26Does that make sense? It makes sense. I'll tell you what happened. I did move to Shepard's Bush when I was 20. Okay. 20. So with my ex, she had a place in Shepard's Bush. No, actually, she was in Camden first. Then she went to Shepard's Bush and then we moved to Shepard's Bush. So since 20, I've been out of South.

1:47Mo Gilligan: Yes, yeah. I think that's why I think of West because I think one time you dropped me home from somewhere. Okay. And I think you dropped me in Central because you were like, I've got to go West. Yes, that would have been it then. Yeah, I think it was like, I ain't going South, but I'll drop you somewhere in Central or something like that. Yeah. Yes. So that's the reason why. So, yeah, but and then we moved to, where did we go to? Then we went Central London. So then I was like, Kings Cross area. So I was there for years and then we split up and then I went back down South again. So I've been back and forth.

2:16But what I realised, you see, when you move out of your area from wherever you grew up in, that's the best thing you can do, you know?

2:22Mo Gilligan: yeah yeah yeah it's the best thing it opens your eyes up to just a different pace a different lifestyle it's like with me now like I live in North London so I'm around a lot of parks and greenery and like I go for walks like I didn't used to do that stuff exactly because I was like what am I walking to I know this area I'm bumping to everyone exactly from old school friends to people that live around the area whereas now I go for a full on walk you know

2:53Mo Gilligan: I say to myself I need to go for a walk Who am I? And then I'm walking looking at the trees and the birds I'm like where the fuck is this man? It's age bro Yeah yeah yeah It's age And you know what though yeah I'm so grateful like I know it's mad you know like when you look at your life and you you sometimes think about the negatives and think about all of the down times or whatever but those down times make you who you are. So when I was going through, brother, I've been through some things in my life because I had my first son when I was 22. Then about a year and a half later, then we had twins.

3:31So I had three kids. Oh yeah, yeah. I met your sons. Yeah, yeah. Lovely boys, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really nice boys, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm 24 now with three kids. I had a lot to deal with at a young age. And so it was kind of, I don't know. it kind of shaped me who I am because I've been responsible since I'm quite young. My parents went back to Jamaica when I was 19. So I was left there by myself. Like no funds, no nothing. They just like, yeah, we're going to Jamaica. I said, alright, nice. So I'm like, because what are you not doing with the house? No, we are selling the house. I said, okay, Ross.

4:09Mo Gilligan: Did you have to like, kind of learn to be an adult then quite quick? Because normally you have that safety when you're like 18 19 to like stay at mum and dad's house yeah no so when i was i think i was probably about 18 and my mum said i want to go back to jamaica so at that point she was i was 18 so she would have been she had me at 18 so she would have been 36 37 so she's still young yeah that's when the idea was born for her to be like oh do you know what i want to go back to jamaica she was working housing in southwark first black woman in southwark to be like a manager but the stress that she had and the responsibilities and whatever else and people speaking to a certain way.

4:47Back then, they could get away with a lot of things, with being discrimination and whatever else. And so she was just like, I'm doing all this for what? And then she decided, okay, I'm going to go back to Jamaica. But at that point, my younger brother, there's eight years between us, so he went back with them. And then, so I'm like, so what's happening with me kind of thing?

5:11Mo Gilligan: You got a younger brother? Yes. Did you have any older siblings? that's a mad one no so I'm the oldest okay I'm the oldest but I'm the eldest grandchild on both sides ah I see so my dad's side and my mum's side so all of my cousins are younger than me um but so I grew up with my uncles and aunts they were like more like brothers and sisters because my youngest uncle is only four years older than me ah yeah so I grew up with my uncles like they're my brothers yeah do you know what I mean and my sisters that situation's mad isn't it yeah but it's nuts when your uncle's like see me yeah so either someone was fucking too early or someone was fucking too too late or a combination of both so my mom got pregnant with me at 18 and then my grand had one when like four years before my mom had me so it's like yeah someone should have stopped or someone shouldn't have started

6:05Mo Gilligan: so like where did where did comedy start playing a role in your life because i feel like when I met you you was always a comic that I used to look at and be like bro man like Kane is just cool man like you'd always dress well you always had a nice car and you was mad cool so you never gave off a vibe of a comic that was like fucking hell struggling man do you know what I mean and I from what I remember you used to you used to have properties and stuff you used to tell about and you speak about on stage and whatnot and stuff and I used to be like does Kane need to do comedy because feels like from the outside anyway when i was quite young i was like feels like things are going all right for him man so like how did comedy start playing a role into your into your life of like your your first year how did you start yeah so basically so obviously like i was like i said i was responsible for when i was young so i had three kids at 24 didn't know what i was doing i first started doing sales i remember my first job after having kids i was doing sales or selling cleaning chemicals on the phone and um i don't think i sold one thing brother yeah and i was on the phone all day and i'm thinking brother it's commission-based you know so i'm like oh the way brother how these people making money the guy next to me everybody because they'd ring a bell when someone's holding everybody this brother next to me is ringing a bell but i never get i didn't even touch the bell once the whole time i was there yeah so i'm like I need to try and do something else to try and make money because I've got kids now.

7:39So I got into property. And so basically I had a little bit of money saved. Didn't know what to do with it. And I was like, right, what do I need to do long term for my kids? So I put it into property. And back then you could get self-certified mortgages. So that meant you didn't have to prove how much you earn or show anything. thing all you have to do is say you have to put down the percentage deposit so like 15 or whatever and you'd be approved um so i had the deposit and i was like right put down the deposit bought a flat i bought a flat and a house first the first purchase the flat needed to work the house was a new build anyway did the flat out by the time i finished the flat like i made my money back on the flat I said where else go out oh the way I said this is free money it's like you know what it do with you I said oh no because I pulled my money up but I said I'm not moving from this property thing so then I started buying some properties like and I had to get to know all the estate agents get to know the solicitors but things were much easier back then where there was this guy who I used to go and see who would talk my mortgages out you'd pay him a percentage I think it was like 1 % of whatever the mortgage was.

8:58So, Doug, all of it was like cash. You have to pay him cash. Dodgy. But he will say anything to get the mortgage over the line. I don't know if we can even put this out.

9:06Mo Gilligan: But anyway. So, he put me on this scheme where there was this company called, there was this mortgage company anyway, and they were doing, you can buy up to 10 properties. It was 10 tillet, it was called. As long as you had to deposit. so I'm like okay then how do I find the funds to buy these properties and at that time you could get 90 % mortgages you get 100 % mortgages you get 110 % mortgages so you get a mortgage for more than the house is worth so what you'd say is is like oh yeah the property has got furniture in it so you're buying it with the furniture in it and as long as the figure stacked up they'd give you a mortgage on it so i didn't get ever get any 100 mortgages because the rate was higher so i just kind of like scrimped and scraped managed to buy my properties first of all and then started renting them out and then i was like rah okay this is so i was good then when i reached 30 30 my dad died like deep vein thrombosis blood clot in his leg just died 51 he was yeah and i was like rah life is so short.

10:15So I said, you know what? I don't love, I like doing properties, but I don't love it. It's not, it's not a passion. I love properties, but it's not like a, it's not, and it was difficult. Bad tenants and dealing with the headache and whatever else. And I always loved comedy. Always, always. But I didn't think I could do it. And I thought, my dad was a plasterer his whole life. And he was miserable. He hated what he did. And I said to myself, do you know what? Let me try comedy. Because I liked, I liked, I like Oliver Samuels you know Oliver Samuels I used to love the tapes I used to watch loads of comedy when I was growing up and then I did Keith's comedy school so I went to actually I went to comedy store and Ava Vidal was there oh yeah yeah Ava Vidal she was headlining and I spoke to her afterwards I was like hi like I've never done comedy before but I'm interested she was the one who said to me go to the comedy school so I did that for six weeks and then you do a five minute set at the end of it and um yeah so i did that and i was like nah i i caught the bug bro it was like you can't beat that feeling of being on stage and people laughing that you don't know you don't know them yeah and i was like nah i've got to keep doing this and then um but i had a rough time in the beginning of comedy because i'm i've always been a confident guy so i used to do sales before so i did sales after that sales job that I couldn't sell anything.

11:40And I did really well at it. So I've always been confident with strangers and whatever else. But then what was happening, I was going through a tough time with my partner at that time. So we were like on the verge of splitting up and whatever else. So all of my material was just about relationships. And so, but it was coming across like I was just angry. You know, like when you don't know how to deliver things, like the passion was there, but I didn't know. it's like Mike Tyson in his early days he's just swinging if he never got taught by a customer at all he's a brawler he's not a boxer and that's what I was when I first started and so I didn't know how to kind of I was getting laughs but I was riling people up people like right he's a bit this or he's a bit that or whatever else and then I had to learn after a few years okay this is how you say things so you can say things the same thing but if you do it in this way it will land and people take it in the way you intended and so I kind of I went away from comedy for about a year and a half 2008 2008 yeah 2008 that's when the credit crunch happened so obviously the property market that imploded so I went from being nice to having no money no money I couldn't even give my baby mother money every week for the kids which split up I had properties but I had no cash I was out on my face worst time of my life and then I was like right how do I keep what do I do with the properties because I had to sell my car I weren't making no money at comedy tenants stopped paying rent I had a credit card the bill which was like 33 % once the brother listen but I had to take it was 0 % at first but then I'm thinking

13:27Mo Gilligan: the 0 % feels like free money at first it feels like free money yo bro you see the 33 % come in I said oh god I started looking at my account just to pay the interest every month was like a mortgage. So I was like, oh my, I'm finished. And the bank's calling me all the time. So I remember this Irish woman, Mr. Brown, how are you doing? I said, yeah, not too bad. Because they rang, they used to ring like daily at one point. When you owe your credit card money, they call you. It's like, it's like if they go for the money at like 6am and it's not there, they are calling you at 8.01 on the dot listen this will be carried out like I owed her money personally I said alright I'm going to pay it off within I forgot when I told her what time frame that time frame came and went and they called me on the day and I was like look I don't have it and I remember I ended up borrowing some of the money from this stripper yeah what the hell is that

14:33this girl i knew at the time yeah because they got paid cash in it and i was brother i was desperate so i said look i can give the money back in a couple months but she was like okay look i'll lend it to you whatever so and what happens is with credit cards they started to say look you owe us this much but if you pay this much by this date then we'll forget the rest so I'm doing any brother I nearly started stripping

15:06so if you see any footage out there with me skinning out brother listen I have to pay my credit card so I was like and then so I paid I think they ended up taking a third of what I owed them so I was like so that was a credit card that was cleared off but I still had like no no money at all and um and then um as time went on um i went i got a job what's i doing i had a job in property so a friend of a friend he had an estate agents in south end and then because there were so many repossessions um he had a contract with halifax with all their repossessions for someone to go out do reports on the properties and um yeah to do the reports on properties to see what they can do with them, turn them into flats or how they can get their money back because obviously people had borrowed up to the hill on them and they wanted to get their money back.

16:01I only lasted like two months in that job because I weren't used to working for nobody. So I've gone to work for him now and he worked there and his mother-in-law and so I'm in the office, I'd be on the road four days a week looking at the properties, one day a week I'd be in the office writing up the reports. So I think this was like the second week and I was no second month I'm in the office and this woman because she talks to everyone like shit but because I'm not there all the time I don't see it yeah yeah so I got in the office this woman was being so disrespectful to me I said I said nah and I had no money you know brother when I say I cuss her I cuss her I cuss her I cuss her I cuss her because I'm not taking violation from nobody like yeah I needed the money but I'm not gonna take violation from now so I cussed her cussed her she was being rude and everyone was like oh that's just what she's like no not with me brother i'm the only black person in the office and she's saying it in ear shot of everybody so i said no no no no so that job finished so now i'm back on skid row now with no money i said you know i'm gonna throw myself into comedy again and then so that was probably a year and a half would pass and i said right i'm going back into comedy work back into it and i said no matter what happens i'm never giving up because this is what i love doing and so yeah so the journey started there and it's been what 20 years now what was your first gig like um very first the very first gig was um the five minutes at the comedy school um which was yeah it was good um it was good and i knew i had potential because when you do the comedy school um you they put you in the position they think you deserve to be in so if you're a headliner for example they see you they can see the potential they'll put you in the position they think you're in.

17:46So they feel like, oh, you open up because we know you're quite, you know, whatever. Or you close the first half. And I went on second to last. There was a guy, there was a girl there, actually, who was really good. Never saw her again. There was an Asian boy there who, he still does comedy now. I forgot his name, but he'd been doing TV and whatever. But he was young then. He was like, he was underage, so his dad used to bring him.

18:09Mo Gilligan: Okay. I can't remember his name, but he was really good as well. But it was a really good, and it's you think it's I can't talk for five minutes five minutes is too long but but it turned out really good and I was like yeah this is yeah this is it but I had some tough gigs man what was it like going from that gig where it's kind of like orchestrated in a sense of where they put you on where they think you're where they think you're supposed to be going to progress at essentially to then going on you know at a set at a black comedy club. Rated. That's a leap. You know why? That mashed me up. So how was you when you first done stand-up then?

18:51Mo Gilligan: I was, how was I? No, how old was you? How old was I? I started at 30. Because the only reason why I asked was when I started I was at, I was like 19, 20. Yeah. So my age mates, we was all the same age. Yeah. So like me, let's say Baba, Ori, Travis J, London Hughes, like Jamie Howard. Okay, yeah. Kevin J. We was all kind of the same age. Yeah. So it felt like, oh, I'm going to open. You're probably going to open too. What was it like for you? Because I feel like the age you're at now, when I look at yourself, like Richard Blackwood or Slim, similar ages. Ten more years deep into the game. Yeah, so how does it feel being in that kind of middle space?

19:37Mo Gilligan: You're not like young 20 where you're like, all right, these are at uni. Do you know what I mean? you've you've left a job you've got children yeah so it must feel like the jokes have to hit yeah quick yeah it was it was different for me it was a proper leap because for me like you said it felt weird because i didn't come up like the uni route like where it was like i'm at uni or i've just started my first job and or this could have been like a um like a hobby yeah i never saw it as that i was like this is my work so even when i weren't making money i'm like this is my job and um i'm big up to to be fair big up to my ex who she did support me because she looked after the kids when i was on the road yeah um but it was yeah it was tough because i've got all these responsibilities i've got financial commitments but yet i'm on a stage where i'm making like maybe 60 pound and i've got to do as many shows as i can to try and just pay bills let alone even making any money yeah so it kind of it was really strange for me because like you said i already had kids i already had a life so i was a dad i was a partner my son was my youngest son was eight by then and so it was like trying to juggle all these things so what what they were negatives but the advantage was the things i had to talk about were real life things because those were my experiences so i'm I'm glad I didn't start when I was young because I don't think I would have really found my groove and I wouldn't be the same type of comic, but I came in with experience, life experience.

21:14So I felt like I had a lot to talk about. So I did resonate with the audiences because they were like, right, that happened to me. Oh, yeah, I know someone who's been through that. You know what I mean? Like bad breakups, kids, then stepdads and all of that. I went through a mad... I was getting mad at one point, you know. I remember walking around BAQ one time, brother. and I was just like I was in a daze for about two hours and the stress that I had on me I don't think people understand they think because you're a comic it's like you're supposed to forget your life and just be on stage and just give us what we want it's like no matter what's going on you have to be our relief but where's my relief yeah

21:51Mo Gilligan: you know what I mean and I remember going through some times and feeling like fucking heck man I know it's something I've got to go through and I'm going to grow through it but it was tough at the time. But I do, I'm grateful for that experience now because I know I'm Teflon now. I know that nothing can really faze me. Nothing, you know, nothing at all. So I guess like now where you are, cause this is like where you're in your middleware, you know, I remember seeing you on the circuit when I was like in my twenties and you were shutting down shows then. Do you know what I mean? So for me and a lot of other people, comics it's no surprise to see the heights you're at now in some ways no thanks man but one thing i definitely commend you on which i think the way you've done it in the sense of with your you know your instagram lives yeah and you know you're interviewing people who have just come off like i don't know um married at first sight or you know it could be an incident that happened and you interview them and you're able to be a comic uh you can interview them and you you what you're presenting yeah but you're also you have this audience that tune in that it's you know it's it's like the way you've done it in a sense of like it's just like yeah i'm just gonna i've got i've got this phone yeah yeah i can jump on live yeah we're gonna do this thing yeah and building that and then especially building out you know what you're doing in terms of stand up with your podcast with christopher savage and stuff yeah how are you feeling it now where you're you know I think all comics we get to a point where we're like yeah I want to chase that mainstream and then you get to a bag where you're like this is I'm doing this all myself do you know what I mean like I don't even need to and then you get the notoriety from other comics of like yeah Kane like when I was in Florida and I told you and some a guy said to me he's like yeah man like I watch your stuff man you gotta get Kane Brown out here man I'll be watching his stuff man tell Kane and I made sure I said I need to tell Kane this I'm not gonna gate you here and say no yeah yeah yeah because it's like it's important that you know that there are people around the world that watch your stuff you'd only ever know unless you ever went there of course of course so how does it feel now within this middle where like you've been on tour for almost two years yeah you know is there still that hunger and that pressure where i felt like before the jokes have to hit because you're like got stuff going on yeah i've got kids and i don't enjoy doing the sales job but this is what i love is it harder to to create the material or do you find it easier now um it's a good question i'm finding it like i'm in my i feel like i'm in my element now and one of the things that has taught me such a big lesson is the industry mainstream didn't give me an opportunity to express who i was yeah so what that did was either you have you die out or you fight so i decided to fight lockdown was the best thing that happened for me lockdown was the best thing i wasn't doing socials and um you were the template really for a lot of us where you took out your phone you went online and you just did your sketches and it was just like bro I would see you like very infrequently.

25:21But when I saw you, it's like, you just leaped. Like you was like from here. Then I saw you the next time with Mo's here. Then I saw you again in your head. And I'm like, okay, this is Mo's route. Mo's done it in such a way that we haven't seen before. It hadn't been seen. So it kind of felt like, okay, what do I need to do? Not to replicate that because everybody's skill set is different. I can't, I'm not a sketch person. I feel like an idiot and my kids are old enough to cuss me out and look at me you know what I'm saying

25:53Mo Gilligan: like shit no have you done sketches kind of brother back in the day you'll never see them brother I had to I had to get them taken down I said nah this is not me so it's a different it's a different skill set and so for me I was like I need to do something that feels comfortable for me and so So I did try going down the mainstream. Because I did the mainstream circuit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did the mainstream circuit. You've done all the clubs, the junglers. I did all of them. All of them. All of that stuff, yeah. I did the military gigs. So all the CSE gigs. I was doing the cruises. I was doing comedy stores, the junglers.

26:34I did all of them. But what I found was, yeah, you was making a living, but you weren't progressing. So nothing was happening from it. You just ended up just being on the circuit and just doing as many gigs as you could. And I'm like, hold on. Where's the growth? And so I didn't know a way out of it. And then that's when you came in. And I saw you, I was like, blood clots. I said, you know what? Mo's done what he's done and showed everybody, like, this is possible. This is possible. And then I said, right, so during lockdown, I said, I'm going to focus on myself, self-growth and my socials. Because I realised having your own audience, we're the product now.

27:15so it's not about having you don't have to do um live at the apollo 15 times before people say right this is the household name you don't have to do that you can be a household name by doing um a couple of cans and so i said right let me just tip my toe in and just do stuff that's comfortable for me so that's when i started doing the lives um because i can talk to people so it's like a sales thing anyway so i'm getting people on just busting joke and whatever then i had a um Then the Married at First Sight lot came on. So I started doing that, like, okay, this is the thing. And then, so we did, because I did a podcast before, and there was five of us, and that didn't work out.

27:58Me and Chris were the only ones who never had conflict on the show. So we said, look, should we do our own thing? And we're like, yeah, maybe, you know, see what happens, whatever. and coincidentally i'd started doing um my tour um with a promoter sometimes you know things are blessing in disguise so i'm doing a promote uh my tour starting my tour did like 10 days i'm gonna just build my own thing now so that's i leaned into my podcast um i leaned into saying right i'm gonna do a proper tour and then i've been doing a tour for two years now almost two years yeah so it's been it's been i'm not gonna lie to you it's been dope what's it like touring

28:39Mo Gilligan: compared to clubs because i feel like as a club comic yeah i'd always say there's for me there's always three comics you don't want to go after because you're like they are going to shut it down so like yourself slim and richard yeah it was always like go after them it's gotta work especially on the circuit when it's like a bunch of comics because most of the time you know as a younger comic I just feel like it's just like a level of respect to just be like well you know this person's older than me so yeah they should go after me but yeah but also there's like like the way that you can control a crowd whether it could be a heckle or the way you interact with people your material it's like you've got this really nice nature as a comic where you come on stage you know you might have a drinking hand you're smiling you're like what's going on you alright you alright brother you alright cool cool you put your drink down and you got this such infectious smile and when it when it goes well it's like yeah you know you're watching it backstage watching you know watching you work and he's like yeah yeah yeah you got you guys a couple and people will open up they're like yeah cool man you know you always you always dress well you're good looking you're very like you know you can draw people in it's like yeah okay cool very nice hair very cool cool cool this is nice yeah it's like you have a really nice nature of like from what this is just my perspective from watching you you're not like okay who let me have a look let me i'm gonna get you we spoke it's almost like yeah you know you get something back yeah and you have a way of kind of being warm with an audience that you know you you can banter with them but it's also like just just let it know let's let it be known though yeah don't disrespect yeah i can turn this up and when i mean shut it down it's like wow like i i remember when you done my show in cardiff yeah and i i headlined and i know you went before me and i was sitting there and i was like oh man I'm going after Kane man let me just make it wasn't even like I need to have better material because I was like Kane shuts it down but in my head I was like I just want to be good today you was dope bro no but that day I was like I want to be good because I know already innit and I'm never one of those comics where I'm like yo bro if you do some of the material I'm going to talk about this yeah I would never do it that's the cringiest thing ever I was like just do your thing innit do you know what I mean and I've got to figure it out when I go on.

31:23Yeah, but I'm never like

31:24Mo Gilligan: sitting there at the side of the curtain like, this guy, man. I wanted to talk about the Caribbean.

31:34Mo Gilligan: Nah, man. Pacing up and down. Oh, bro, man. Like, but also at the same time, it just, it makes me up my levels of like, cool, this is a leader in the field. This is someone that I admire and watch and I'm like, cool, I just need to make sure I'm on par in it. Do you know what I mean? In the sense of like, I want to have a good set today. I'm not trying to compete, but I definitely want to have a good set. Just represent yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Massively, man. Yeah, it was a wicked night that, man. I really had a good night. I had a lot of people from that show actually come on my tour. Cardiff is a really nice place to do comedy, you know?

32:10Mo Gilligan: I'm telling you. Cardiff is, I wouldn't even say it's an untouched gem, but they are one of the nicest audiences. Yeah, they are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If they follow you, they follow you. Yes, yeah, yeah. You can put another show on. I'm going to go and see him again. Yes. One of them once. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100 % man. So like where you are now because now you're doing like more mainstream gigs just doing stuff you know like BBC and stuff like this and you know you've worked with like your lots of your BBC One extras or MTV's and stuff back in the day and like Comedy Central and stuff. How do you feel it?

32:42Mo Gilligan: How do you feel it is now where you know the cameras are on and it is essentially this you know a big company for example where it's like Like, oh, I don't have the pleasure of tapping into this audience. Because you're on the clock. It is this. Yes, yeah. Okay, just let you know. It's going to go like this. We're going to bring you out. And now you're like, oh, I'm not. This isn't home crowd anymore. Do you know what I mean? Because I feel like when you tour, the pleasure I can have sometimes is that this is home crowd. Yeah, of course. And the minute I do something else, I'm like, oh, right.

33:12Mo Gilligan: Is this? Yeah, yeah. What's going on here? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean? How do you find it now? You know what? I've realised. And this is the issue that I have. And so I know that all of the different platforms who put on comedy shows and have comics go on, what I think they fail to do is replicate a night out of live comedy. I feel like what they do, they take away some key elements. So the lighting's always wrong. It's bright, isn't it? It's just too much.

33:49It's so bright. I can see everybody.

33:55Oh, man. Yeah.

33:57Mo Gilligan: I thought it was just me. It's so bright. It's too much. It's too much. There's people pacing up and down. There's cameras swinging in front of people's face. That is not a good replica of a live comedy night. And so what happens is the energy is different in the room for everybody. So you're going to react to that. So what I noticed when I was watching Live at the Apollo, for example, some people would do well, not necessarily because they did well on the night in the room, but because they did well down the camera. But I know the audience weren't reacting like that necessarily. So what I realised was, it's like you've got to forget what's in front of you and play the camera.

34:40And Kerry Godlem is really good at doing that. So she does her material, and it seems as if no matter what's coming back from the audience, she's doing it how she would do it if it was a comedy night, proper comedy night. And so I feel as if that nobody quiet does it correct. So when I go to these spaces, I'm like, all right, it's going to be shown on TV. So forget the audience in front of you. Yeah, they're there, but I'm not playing to them because I realise if I play to the audience, sometimes you see, I saw a really good comic. I forgot his name do Live at the Apollo and it's a great comic but it didn't translate down the lens and I was like it just didn't land nothing landed down the lens but I know on the night maybe he did well in front of the audience so I feel like the dynamic changes when you're doing some of these spaces because on a live comedy night I can feel free they want to know what you're going to be talking about exactly what you're saying don't come off script you've got your 8 minutes and so it kind of that freedom don't feel like it's there as much and so that's where the magic is the magic is in me being free and you being free on stage

35:49Mo Gilligan: and I don't feel like the people who are the production I don't feel like they're comics so they don't understand what it feels like when you're in that space to be like it's not the same yeah you can know what my material is but how do you get the best out of it you get the best out of it when you replicate what I'm used to and that's not what you're doing because everything's wrong like it's like you've got people like I said people walking around the lights it's just like then what they'll do the night's long as well oh yeah yeah yeah the night's long and so it's I don't know how you get around it I don't know how you get around it because I felt like back in the day they used to Live at the Apollo used to feel more like a comedy night and I don't know what's changed but it doesn't feel like that now when you watch it it feels like you're just watching something else it doesn't feel and it's nothing I don't know what they can do I don't know how you can change it but I'd like to start putting on something that's produced in a way where people get that experience at home.

36:50Mo Gilligan: Yeah, it's like a rawness.

36:54Mo Gilligan: I know what you mean because I feel like I grew up watching Def Comedy Jam. Right. So that was kind of my route in. Exactly. If I'm honest, when it comes to watching live comedy where I know it was produced but it felt like what was happening in the room was a reflection of it wasn't the camera, it wasn't the crowd. That's right. And it's interesting you say that about the audience because I think the first time I ever done any comedy to a live audience in front of camera was Russell Howard's Hour. Ross. Where he'd put people on and you do some stand-up. So he'd do the show and he'd introduce the audience to a comic.

37:29Mo Gilligan: Now I know that that wasn't my audience. That's right. But I remember just playing down the barrel of the camera. The first thing I asked was, okay, cool, the camera's there, the camera's there. But what I realised, when you play the camera, you're like I know I'm gonna get laughs I know I'll get laughs but as long as I play the camera you're not gonna see it in my eyes when it doesn't feel like I didn't get the laughs exactly and I think that's it's a hard way to play comedy because we're so used to reacting off the room if it is filmed we don't know it's just at the back of a comedy club we're not even we don't even acknowledge the camera we're just like it might be on it might be off sometimes they record it and you're like, oh, cool.

38:13Mo Gilligan: You hear the sound and you're like, didn't it sound like that, man? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Whereas now it's like, cool, we got the microphones. That's right, yeah. Even on the last tour I'd done, I said to my friends, I was like, look, let's just not even film it for anything. I'll always like to see it back. But I said, yeah, let's film it properly. And then I was like, how are we going to, I said, the sound though, the sound's got to replicate what's going to be in the room. My friend said, yeah, well, we'll put some microphones onto some chairs and stuff. even when I did it back with the microphones under chairs I was like nah on the night it wasn't that and I think that's one skill that you know when you watch some of these superstar comics and realise you're like oh wow like there's playing the room then there's playing the camera and then there's doing both it's like I think another level of comedy that you're like it's until you've done it or you see it and you're like I get it now Yeah, I get it.

39:10100%. Yes. Because as well, like you said, it's funny because that's one of my, one of the things that as well, that I always look at when I'm watching live comedy and I'm like, why? I know the audience are killing themselves, but it doesn't sound like it. So even when I listen back to some of my stuff, I'm like, I know what it was like on the night. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But they need to have the audience. It's mad because you've got like a blues break, you're waiting, the laughter's going up for ages. But you're loud because you're fed into the system. your mic's fed into the system but they're not fed into it so their laughter doesn't sound as if it was what it was on the night and so it is hard it is hard but i would like to try and figure out how to get something which replicates it as much as possible i think like live at the apollo i think it should be in a smaller room um maybe a 500 seater comedy club um low ceilings dark dark dark walls and then it's like and the cameras are not moving around a lot

40:12Mo Gilligan: because I want it's the audience that you're trying to you want the comedian to feel as comfortable as possible and you want the audience to be as relaxed as possible when you've got that combination now we can do our job yeah yeah when the audience don't feel relaxed the light's on them the room's not the right temperature or it's like there's a long wait or they've got to watch like because La Vida Paula they film two shows on the same night. If you're in the second show, it's a long night if it's the second show. So it's kind of like, I know you've got budgets and whatever else, but I think that there could be a more productive way to do it where everybody enjoys the experience more.

40:50And it will come off, you'll have a better product at the end. Because I don't feel like stars are made anymore from TV. Do you know what I mean? I don't feel like there's, there's no one like on the come up where it's like, right, this one's going to be a big star now. I don't feel like that TV thing's not really there anymore. everyone's online now yeah yeah so it's a different space

41:09Mo Gilligan: do you feel like with TV because I feel like when I used to see like I don't know a show like 8 out of 10 cats yeah mock the week it would feel like even being a comic on the black circuit you'd be like I'd love to go on that one day yes yeah yeah do you know what I mean just to have that quick comedy and you sit on a panel yeah yeah you know it definitely especially if I've seen someone that I knew on the show as well of course you know if I see like Nabil or Ola and you're like oh right we can do that we can fill that space you know what I mean yeah um I just also felt that like with TV at that time where you know someone would do because when you realize how they got onto the show you're like oh so you you know you do Edinburgh yeah then maybe a producer might see you and then Channel 4 and then you get on to do that show yeah and I didn't even know that you have to do um what's it called again you got to do auditions yeah and you have you done an audition Mo brother who did you do an audition for brother I did it for 8 out of 10 cats listen I don't know it's in West London isn't it listen in Bush listen Mo I don't know who was representing me that day when I sat in that chair but it wasn't me I said brother I walked out there with my head down I said I said what was that Mo I didn't know you done an audition for that listen someone saw me from production saw me do a set somewhere they saw me do a set at White City House Soho House okay and they went oh my god it's fantastic blah blah blah whatever I was like yeah yeah it's nice they said look tomorrow can you come down and do in this shit there's a blood cloud I said this is me brother I was like they're gonna cast me to be like one of the team captains

43:08so I've got there now and it's like so it was just a weird environment it's just a really unnatural environment yeah yeah and I'm on the panel now and they were doing I'm good at maths I'm good at maths so the maths one but I'm taking shit too seriously and I'm like I forgot the money

43:27Mo Gilligan: yeah yeah you gotta be funny you're not meant to play the game

43:34but I got a maths thing I was the only one that got the maths one and there was some other things that they were talking about like I was being yes I was like but it was so foreign to me and and this is one of the things it taught me is sometimes you have to do something a few times for the space to feel comfortable for you for you to show who you are and I don't feel as if sometimes we get grace to be able to build because I know I can do it but it's having the time you get your shot

44:06Mo Gilligan: so they're oh thank you so much Kane that was fantastic I said you lying bitch

44:18I knew I weren't getting a call back

44:20Mo Gilligan: you knew in your heart didn't it in my heart I'm not coming back in my heart and the thing is it's like how you think it's going to go and how it feels when you're there, it's like, it's two different things. It doesn't go. But also, those people that do panels a lot, they know how to do panel shows. It's like a skill in itself. It's like doing auditions for, you know, like if you're acting auditions when you're doing it down camera and you're doing like a self-tape, for example. That's a skill in itself. You might be able to do the acting job, but you need to be able to showcase yourself in the audition for them to say, yeah, yeah, yeah, they can do it.

44:56And I know I can do any of the panel shows. like I can do it like in my sleep but when you're in that space it's so unnatural it's kind of like I know I didn't represent myself really when I was there but it is what it is and I took it on the chin and I thought alright maybe in a couple of months they'll be like oh Cain

45:17Mo Gilligan: do you want to bread I ain't heard nothing from there do you know what it is also I think when I realised when I started doing TV and I go on a panel show I was going out to an audience he didn't know who I was as well so trying to get a laugh from an audience who they're fans of the show. That's right. They're fans of maybe the comics that are on the panel. And then there's me already. They're like, yeah, I don't really watch much black comedy. I don't watch a lot of UK black comedians. I don't know any. And you're like, that's all right, cool. And then you start telling material and you're like, they're not even writing this.

45:48Mo Gilligan: No, nothing at all. It's like, nothing is popping. Brother, you're just laughing to yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You just have to laugh at everyone else's stuff to be like, you're having a good time. yeah that's right yeah do you know what I remember doing big fat quiz of the year okay the first time I done it and I was told it's going to be a long record it's five hours Jimmy Carr's hosting and I don't know if you feel this but I feel like in the black comedy circuit when it comes to like like comics getting each other it's like a you got me alright cool but you know I'm going to get you back yeah yeah that's right but it is it's friendly fire both ways 100 % but there needs to be something to just spark the friendly fight of course if i've said something and he said what yeah then you're like oh yeah yeah and you can do that back and forth yeah i remember saying something and jimmy carl said something and he was like yeah i was like i never met like that i didn't i didn't do anything but i don't i don't i'm not used to that yeah i wasn't used to that so i was like that but then i knew i think quickly i was like he's the star of the show that's right this is a mainstream show this audience don't even know me so I can't even be like alright well I'm gonna get you back because the audience are like we don't know you that's our guy yeah yeah yeah and I think once I learned that very quickly I said oh I understand how the panel shows work because I'll be honest there's a lot of panel shows that I've been asked to do and some of them I'll be like that's just not where I'm gonna thrive I don't know if my comedy is gonna come across and also like I know on certain shows it's like cool I can lend myself to that will I be that funny I don't know you know like and I sit there and I do some like some shows I've done and I'm like okay cool I get how this works I get how this plays and different shows whether it's like a league of their own you know that's very much sport and stuff and you've got a sports star and everyone gets them and you're like oh this goes anywhere innit kind of thing so you have to hold your own amongst different people or whether it's something that's more witty would i lie to you yeah and you know you've got to tell a story and that you know you're like all right come on mo let's so tell us was that was that what what no i don't and you have to you have to find your way of like i i get this i get this show that's what it is you know i mean that's what it is and what you find is the people who have had the opportunities a lot to go on there like the team captains they get it so it's like on my podcast or show that we do online.

48:23I know how to fill that space really well because I know my role. And so I can take criticism on there. I know how to play down. I know how to be big. I know how to navigate the space. So I feel as if I do start doing panel shows, I know where I fit in now. Because I've been doing the live, I've been doing the podcast for so many years now. It's like, I get it. Everything's about transferable energy. everything's about bouncing off of each other so you just tiptoe into it and then and now i can build up a rhythm with somebody yes i know i'm with you but i feel as if if you're in a space that you're not 100 comfortable it just takes that split second for you to doubt yourself and say should i say that should i not say that or something actually coming to you yeah where you're like right so for them they're in a space they're so comfortable that it's just it falls off their tongue so yeah when i'm on my show like on rated 18 it falls off my tongue because it's my space yeah yeah and so i understand how the dynamic of being somewhere that you're familiar with you know the rules of the game because every space is a different rule and once you realize that and you figure it out now i can thrive in that space yeah but it's getting the opportunity and getting it a few times so you can learn like you know fail fast let me fail a couple times and then let me build into it.

49:46And then you'll get to see the real side. But I don't feel as if we get the opportunity. And I'm not saying necessarily black people, but I'm just saying the space now, they want people who are already in it. They're not saying, oh, let's build this person. Let's bring him in and let's see how he goes. Let's give him a season. Whereas on Taskmaster, for example, you're on it for a few shows, for a few episodes. So you can kind of build into.

50:13Mo Gilligan: Do you know what I mean? you're there so it's like you might do six episodes and it's like okay by the third episode now you're going to see the real me yes yeah yeah I don't feel like you get that on panel shows sometimes it's you go in and then they'll get someone else in yeah yeah do you do you care about wanting to be on TV because I feel like yeah I always feel like Kane you have so much going on that I feel like you've created do you know what I mean you've planted all these seeds in your garden and it's almost like I'm not really bothered about what's going on over there if it comes it's almost like a bonus yeah essentially do you know what I mean 100 % I've actually turned down work I've actually turned down work they've offered me TV work and I said no I don't feel like doing it and it's that's a nice power to have isn't it listen yeah I'm not going to lie to you it's it's quite emotional because if I didn't do what I did I could still be in a place where I'm not making no money or I see gigging comics who are just on the circuit, not really making a decent living, you know, living hand to mouth.

51:18And I could have been in that space and TV didn't want to give me an opportunity. But now people are like, oh, what do you think about it? Do you want to go on this show and whatever? So I'm like, actually, I don't want to.

51:27Mo Gilligan: I don't want to now because my audience now, I've got my audience and I can keep growing my audience. If I go into a new space, yeah, you're being shown to different audience, but I don't necessarily mean it's my audience. And so just for example, years ago, obviously, Axl won Britain's Got Talent, for example. Now, that platform, for me personally, I would never feel comfortable doing it. And I don't knock anyone for doing it because it's done amazing things for people. But I see myself as a comic. and so if I go on there with how it is now especially maybe back in the day it was a bit different but now I don't feel it's for first of all an environment for a comic and also I don't feel like they're trying to progress your career I don't feel like it's for my benefit yeah so make a bit of tv you know if you win or you get far that's still for their benefit and I don't want that old school TV audience because they're not necessarily comedy fans.

52:43They will come out to see you because they've seen you on something. And there's no... I just feel like there's no longevity in that. People who watch TV now, they're not young anymore. Really, no one watches scheduled television, really. You know, everything's online now. and if it's not online people might watch one or two shows there's one show you might watch you might watch the traitors and say that's my thing no one's sitting down

53:12Mo Gilligan: do you think you could be your unfiltered self though because I feel like you definitely I feel like you've always had the pleasure of being super unfiltered yeah do you know what I mean whether it's your podcast or your audience and you have an audience who are used to that yeah and seeing you on a Britain's Got Talent yeah you'd be like yeah that's you're not going to get me yeah It's like, for example, sometimes people say, Mo, man, like, you should talk about this and be a bit more raw. And I'm like, if you've ever seen me from my 20s to now, I've never been that comic. You've never been that.

53:46Do you know what I mean?

53:47Mo Gilligan: So if all of a sudden I start doing material where it's just like, you know, you lot would see, be like, oh, right, Mo's got down this lane. That's not him. That's not you, you know? I know that's not him. Yeah, yeah. So someone's in his ear. Yeah. And I think that's the thing when it comes to stand-up. It's almost like when you have mouths to feed and bills to pay, you're like, I need to play to my strengths. Because I'm not, yes, you want to definitely push the boundaries, but I just feel like we as black comics don't get the chance to push the boundaries and wake up and say, well, I'm going to do some political stuff today.

54:24Mo Gilligan: Yeah. Because you're like, people are paying£20 a ticket. I can't just change it up overnight because I feel like I want to. Because you're like, yeah, no, people will go and be like, yo, Cain, I bought my missus here, my brother. I know you want to change your thing, but obviously... £40? Yeah, you know what I mean, my brother? I thought it was good, like, it was good. But yeah, you know what I mean? Like, people won't say it's bad, but they're like, okay, a bit different. Yeah, exactly. Okay, okay. I just don't think we get the flexibility to... We don't. ...have a chance to experiment or try a thing.

54:56Mo Gilligan: Hence why, like, you're saying about panel shows, going on there, knowing you're like, if this goes well, yes, if it doesn't go as well I'm not getting that call back again do you know what I mean yeah 100 % it's mad because this is one of the things this is one of the reasons why I stuck with being as authentic as I can with myself because I realised Jimmy Carr there's a Jimmy Carr Jimmy Carr is hilarious and he said some wild outlandish things I don't know one black comic that could get away with that I don't know no one black comic and so it's like hold on so there's a space yeah for that comedy there's a space for you know outspoken authentic comics but not with us and i'm like why is that why is it that i have to be sanitized for you to find me palatable enough for you to say i'm going to give you opportunity for something and i always understand that everybody's got their journey so i know you might see me when years ago now i'm i'm different but years ago i know maybe you might think bro came to some mad things but i'm learning as well i'm still learning to do this craft yeah and so the opportunity sometimes you know he's really funny but fucking oh it's a bit that's what i used to get a lot years ago now i've managed to still have that rawness with the likeability and with the keeping people on side.

56:34So there's no pushback from anybody where it's like I've found my groove. And so I know if I didn't have that journey where I was saying what I wanted to say, I wouldn't be where I am now. I've had to learn to navigate that space where I don't feel as if I'm in competition with anyone. I don't know any other comic that's like me. Not saying I'm better than anyone else, but I know that if you come to my show, you're not going to feel as if you're at somebody else's show. This is my voice. This is who I am. And that's really important to me. That for me is what I love about my journey is the fact that I know all of the knocks, all of the knockbacks, all of the no's have been to mould me who I am now for my audience to see.

57:20Because this is what happens when you get, you know, it's like when you get a certain level of notoriety, people feel like this is how you've always been. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's not. you're growing into the space that you've been given so when you first started when you sometimes you get opportunities and i'm learning on the job i'm learning on the job like i've never done something before and i'm doing it now but because loads of people know me you expect me to perform at a certain level or a certain way and it's like give me a chance to grow into what i can become

57:49Mo Gilligan: yeah

57:53and so I'm now in a space where I'm 51 now my kids are grown up I've got a little boy as well and it's like I'm just in a good space I'm happy bro like I feel like this is the happiest I've ever been yeah yeah it's the happiest I've ever been I feel like I'm in control of my life I feel as if yeah obviously you know you can make more money you can whatever but I'm in such a good space now where I feel as if I deserve what I've got I don't feel like you know people feel like imposter syndrome sometimes you do feel like that during your career you feel like do I deserve it but I don't feel like that I do feel as if yeah I do deserve it I've created this, I've built this and I do pat myself on the back and say do you know what because as well I'll tell you another thing as well social media don't come natural to my age group it don't come natural I was born in the 70s brother listen listen I was a guy who I was not brother I'll post I'll post every three months a million likes come on man it's coming and you get like 14 likes and one coming and you've you kind of don't understand the work you have to put in for the output and you have to put a lot into the machine

59:13Mo Gilligan: yeah to actually see something you did it and you was just you was doing it organically and then it's like everything just snowballed and i feel as if my generation don't know how to navigate that space properly and i don't feel as if anybody is doing what i've done or taking risks like what i have you have to um take the risk on being a novice because in comedy i'm this year's old but in social media i'm this year's old it's not it's not the same thing and so we need to i had to get rid of my ego and say right i don't mind being shit at something for a little while to to get better at it because i know i can do it i've had to do the same process with stand-up where at one point i didn't know nothing about stand-up and and i've managed to navigate in that space okay how do i now navigate in this space and then everything's backwards now.

1:00:15Now you're making content for social media to bring people to see you at comedy.

1:00:20Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah. You don't get big from comedy. That's not how it works. And it's always been that, but it's like we've never seen it. In America, for example, all of the big comics, they acted as well. So that's how you'd know them. It wasn't social media so much. It was Richard Pryor. Richard Pryor was big, but he was an actor as well. Kevin Hart. he's an actor Eddie Murphy actor like all of them did acting Dave Chappelle he had his own show and so I think that people stand up comics there's great stand up comics and they don't realise your TV is social media yeah that's your way to draw your audience and then give them what your God given talent is yeah and so once I figured that side out I had to take a risk and say do you know what if I fall flat on my face I fall flat on my face but I know I'm smart enough to be able to make it work because I see things in it.

1:01:19I see how the industry is. I see opportunities or lack of opportunities. And I'm like, I have to do this myself. So I kind of had to force myself. All right, lockdown, like I said, if we went for lockdown, maybe I might still be not really pushing myself properly. But that kind of, you had to sit back. I didn't have excuses. I had a bag of excuses. Yeah, yeah. I had a bag of excuses. Nah, man, fuck social media. That's not me. I'm not doing that. I'm not being an idiot in front of the camera. I'm not doing it. That's not my thing. You've got to do it.

1:01:52Mo Gilligan: I think it also comes with pride as well. I think. 100%. Within our circuit, we're very prideful. Do you know what I mean? We want to come on stage. We want to dress well. Black people judge you. But also, we're also comics who, we don't want even the audience to see us. we're like yeah let me go through the back let's get a drink are you on yeah don't talk to me do you know what I mean once you drop that and you know you get to a gig and someone's like bro you're on you're like yeah bro yeah I'm having a quick drink man because now you don't have I guess it changes as you as you get older but also the more notoriety that you get but you think like does it really matter if someone sees me do you know what I mean it's like I'll tell you what it is it is like you said it's your ego but it's being vulnerable I'm so comfortable being vulnerable and so who has power over me other than me when I don't care what people not that I don't care what people no I don't care what people think but I care what people think if that makes sense so I'm not bothered what you think if you like me if you don't like me but it's nice if you like me but if you don't I'm not that bothered I don't know you I don't owe you anything and when you're in that space nobody really governs how you feel so like you said I don't go into a space now where I'm like like you know oh yeah yeah I'm on there don't talk to me whatever yeah whatever I'm vulnerable I don't care innit you're good yeah it doesn't matter nothing's ever that important and you kind of when you look at the grand scheme of things of life you know it doesn't matter like I just want to I want to bring joy to people I want people to feel something when I do my craft.

1:03:40I want you to walk away and say, oh man, it's such a good night. People are going through shit, man. People have got tough lives out there, you know. Really, real shit's happening. People are dying. There's things going on. Look what's going on abroad, like with all the wars and stuff like that. People are going through real things. And if I can have like, give them a half an hour, hour respite for them to forget their problems and kind of like laugh and just kind of feel joy, that's for me that's the gift for me forget the money and the notoriety and the numbers and whatever else my gift is for me that I manage to make people feel a certain way in a positive way and just have a positive

1:04:19Mo Gilligan: impact on people and you're going to go back on the road again after this tour yeah which is I feel like every comic probably has that thing where you go on tour you're like I'm having a break after this two years and then halfway through the tour you're like you know what I might go back on tour again, you know? But you're going to do a crowd work tour this time, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so I've been doing crowd work shows. I've been doing it like probably not every month, but I'd have a run of like four months in a row where I was doing crowd work down at Backyard Comedy Club. And they were selling out.

1:04:55I was doing really well with them. And I said, you know what? I really want to do a crowd work tour. I want to put myself under pressure. I want to see how how I navigate this space now because this is new every room is different with backyard I'm used to the same room so I know how to play it now I'm going somewhere else the sound is going to be different the audience's space is different the lighting is different so now I'm having to figure shit out there and then there's no second chances but what that does for me now I have to be in the moment I have to be present and nothing feels better.

1:05:32You know, it's like when you're on stage, brother, nothing feels better than when you're present. You know, like when you're there in the space and you're like, I see and feel everything. I feel the energy. I know my timing's going to be perfect. I know when I say this next line, what's going to happen? My body's moving. It's like everything's just fluid. And I like to put myself in uncomfortable situations where I, and that's where the magic happens. the magic happens when my back's against the wall and i've got the pressure on me and it's like right okay i need to figure out an hour's worth of material in front of an audience i don't know what's coming back at me i don't know what's going to be said i don't know what's going to happen but i'm going to react to everything as much as i can and create a night that people can be like

1:06:19Mo Gilligan: rah i've never because you don't know what's going to happen yeah and also it's like one of those unforgettable nights where everything you've done is happened in that way. So people leave and be like, if I see that show tomorrow, it won't be the same show. It's a completely different show. And so that for me, I don't think, I don't know if anyone has done that. I know that obviously Matt Rife does, but I don't know if he does just crowd work. Obviously, Nate Jackson as well, but I don't know if he just does crowd work. But nobody is doing it here. and it's one of my strengths i would love doing my hour where it's scripted and i've written something about a particular topic but i do love the space of let me do something that's now yeah and the audience feel it you can't replicate that and that energy in that room when they know it's like we both sometimes i shock myself i'm like right this is funny you know you know you know it's how it comes to you it's a blast hey I'm alright you know it's a great feeling when you're feeling your own shit yeah yeah especially when you've just made it up and you're like where did it come from I got a big laugh thank you it's almost like you justify it to the audience where you're like I told you right I told you that's why that's why you're here that's why I'm here yeah yeah that's why I'm here like Dave Chappelle said that's why I get the big bucks but that's the thing is when you're inspired so you got like you're in a space where you're you know everything that you're doing is going to land because the confidence you've got behind yourself is it's unshakable so if nothing's happening you create something from nothing so it doesn't matter I feel I feel a void where there is none so if there's not getting much back from the audience I know which direction to go in if I'm getting a lot back from the audience.

1:08:14I know where I'm going. If something mad happens, I know where to go with that.

1:08:17Mo Gilligan: You're very self-aware. Yeah. And I think that's, yeah, that's definitely one of my skill sets that I'm just, I like being present. I love being, like now, in this interview, you know, like some people come and you can see, they're like, right, I've got four jokes that I need to land. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't like being in that space because it feels like, all right, now's my opportunity now. Let me, you understand? And I don't like being there i want to feel like i want it to feel fresh for me and that's when you get the best of me yeah yeah you know but no it's been such a pleasure to have you on the pod man i think you're you're definitely i guess for me you're you're a comedian's comedian do you know what i mean i appreciate that being able to watch you as a stand-up of like on the circuit whether it's like back in the day like a sunday show or you know like at your own show seeing you headline you're one of those comics that you sit and you're like, oh man, like, yeah, that's, if I was in that crowd, I would be in hysterics.

1:09:21Mo Gilligan: But I've got the pleasure of knowing you and speaking to you and like being backstage and being like, oh yeah, I know how that one worked. Yes. I know. And you also like, you give, you give people a lot of your time off stage as well. Do you know what I mean? You know what I mean? You're, you're not a gatekeeping comic that would say, oh yeah, I've done it this way, but yeah, figure out for yourself. which I feel like I don't really feel like once you find a way to do it everyone's going to ask questions we're on the same circuit how did that thing go some people ask and they're not asking but also I feel like in the black circuit it's so big in the sense of the shows we do are big shows it's DJ, there's music it's on a Sunday night it's packed but also it's so small at the same time agree do you know what i mean and we're only going to be more powerful in numbers in a sense of like yeah like this this worked for me because of i know my age group they they want to watch this they will tune in to watch my lives they are watching married at first sight so that's the person that's going to come to my show do you know what i mean um having my own tours and being like there's no way i could do my own tours or and be like yeah it's just gonna be me headlining yeah and yeah if you man do this you'll be like are you fucking serious bro i'm gonna smash this gig even more what don't do that joke i'm gonna fucking murk it bro no crumbs will be left but also like it's very testament to like where you've come from in a sense of building it out as you know as a father and being like these jokes need to land do you know i mean because you could have just said look it's property team's working out for me and go from that lane so you're such a testament to what it is to be a comic that has grinded out from the mud do you know what i mean like i appreciate it no but bro the proof is in the pudding like seeing you as a stand-up and watching you it's like kane is like yeah kane shut that down bro yeah yeah it's like watching you work it's like no kane's cold I appreciate that because it's been a long road bro honestly it's great to see the tours and everything that you do whether it's television and I think that in terms of I feel like with you you've been able to craft out your lane so it isn't a surprise if I go to Florida and someone's like yeah you gotta get Kane Brown here man because it's like the world is watching it's a big place do you know what I mean yeah of course so yeah boy look forward to the crowd work tour man are you gonna take it abroad do you know what yeah that is the yes I'm going to take it abroad because it starts in March people can get tickets in March next year I'm going to release the tickets I don't know when this is out but yeah I think I'm going to start selling tickets end of this month okay starts in March but I'm going to I want it to go to America but brother Trump's made life difficult you know bro listen boy Trump's made life difficult bro I can't even say it to you you can't say nothing look off my visa you're joking hey I gotta be careful what I say these podcast things no you can't mess around don't say nothing so I was I'm gonna have to probably go Canada and then what I'm gonna do you'll love Toronto yeah I think Canada's gonna be Toronto like Toronto outside of London is probably top three places is it America's nice I've been able to go because it's different parts of America but like i've only done toronto but the nicest people bro like like afterwards i'll be like look let's do a quick meet and greet people take a picture you know when someone shakes your hand and they look at your eyes and they say yo bro so i say like you're really repping they they they they they'll be like yo bro you're really repping the caribbean man i really respect what you're doing i'm like i i ain't really repping it like that but for them for them yeah yeah it's like yo man like, done all bro, like, respect your ting, my gay.

1:13:32Mo Gilligan: I'm like, alright, can I get my hand back? But, I swear to you, one of my favourite places to ever do comedy. Yes. Oh, I'm 100 % doing Canada. you're really, really like Toronto, man. I'm definitely going to do Europe, definitely going to do Canada. If visas get sorted out and whatever else, obviously it costs a lot of money with the legal fees because, I'll tell you what my problem is. So now I can't go on to Esther anyway. Yeah. And if you're working out there, you've got to go on a working visa anyway. But one of the issues that I've got is I actually went to Somalia years ago, 2018. Did a gig for the military.

1:14:08It's on one of the seven banned countries, isn't it? So where? Yeah, so now I've got to do a proper application, go into the embassy. So that's why it's taken so long. So I'm going to do that. But I'm definitely going to touch America. I know I've got a big audience in America because basically our podcast, Big Up Chris, Christopher Savage, Big Up Percy, big up the cameraman big up our audience rated 18 and all the ratings that got big them up sorry yeah man

1:14:34Mo Gilligan: no of course man but we've got we've got a big following in America so like obviously with our Patreon we see like where everybody is and it's like they're like no you need to come over you need to come over when we realise yo Renna we was going to do a tour out there yeah Renna everybody need a visa yeah so what 12 grand a pop I said hold on wait a second man got us like Madison Square Garden to do I said nah bro I said nah bro Kane it's been such a pleasure man just knowing you was coming on the pod I was just so excited man so thank you I really really appreciate you coming on the pod man thank you for having me on bro and just as a comic like even when it's the small things of just there's times you just drop me home for a gig or drop me to London and stuff like those things I really really appreciate man so to see a success seeing you touring and like Like seeing you get like the fruits of your labor from you planting the seeds.

1:15:31Mo Gilligan: Bro, like, yeah, it's great to see. I appreciate it. I really, really appreciate it, man. And this, my friend, has been your beginning, middle and end. Thank you very much, my brother. Thank you, man. Appreciate you, bro. Thank you, bro. Appreciate you, man. Hey, what's up? Thank you so much for listening to the podcast today. Now, a lot goes in to making each episode. I know you hear my voice, but there's a team behind the scenes who helped make it. And if you did enjoy it, I'd really, really appreciate it. if you could show the love to them by giving us five stars. And if you also have the time, please leave us a review.

1:16:01Mo Gilligan: It's always appreciated and we love reading the comments. And of course, we want to keep making it better. Thank you for listening and have a great day. Peace.