Nick Helm: From One-Star Reviews to Rock Star Comedy

0:00Mo Gilligan: Hey, what's happening people? My name is Mo Gilligan and this is the Beginning, Middle and End podcast. Now this is where I'm going to be asking some of my favourite people about how they started, where they are now and the legacy they want to leave. My guest this week is a force of nature in British comedy, a rock star to stand up. He's a musician, actor and a writer from his breakthrough in Edinburgh to starring in the BBC free hit comedy Uncle and directing a BAFTA award-winning short film. He's skillfully blended music and comedy together, shaping an unforgettable comedic persona. Please, welcome to the podcast, Nick Hale.

0:44No, thanks for coming on the pod, bro. I really appreciate that, man. Thanks for having me.

0:47Mo Gilligan: Yeah, no, no, I really appreciate that, man. So you're from North London, born and raised, yeah? Yeah. Well, we moved when I was about seven or eight to St Albans, but I didn't, yeah. so you see like in terms of stand up yeah like for you like because I love I love like a comedian to comedian chat when it comes to stand up because you were just talking about about Edinburgh and stuff like that like you said you like Edinburgh yeah yeah yeah what is it you love about the Edinburgh man I feel I feel like it's hard it's hard work but I've also had a lot of good Edinburgh's yeah so it's so yeah it's good but I've done it since I was about 16.

1:30Mo Gilligan: Yeah. So, yeah. But we did like, you know, we had a really good drama teacher when we were at school and she took us up when we were 16. We did a school play. We did three school plays. 1997, 1998 and 1999. And then in 2001, I wrote my first sort of play. Yeah, yeah. So I did plays up until about 2006 and then I did comedy. What was it like going to Edinburgh in the 90s? that makes me feel really old like grandad yeah I mean because it was it was weird because it was really good training because we went up and we had to look after our own we did Romeo and Juliet and I was the prince in Romeo and Juliet and we had to look after our own costumes and we all stayed like students like in student accommodation but we were all 16 well it ranged from ages I guess there was sort of like year 11 to upper 6th form we had to fly we had to do all that stuff but I think I can't remember how long we did we either did two weeks or one week but I just remember at the end of it just absolutely being fucking exhausted and I remember I washed my hair and it all came out black because I hadn't showered when I was 16 and it was just sort of like you know we went to see stand-up comedy we went to see Jason John Whitehead at the Tron and went to see Al Murray in the courtyard at Pleasance and yeah it's really good you haven't done it much so have you i've only done it once um and you know i have this love and hate thing for edinburgh i love it in the sense of when you're there and you're gigging it's very much like you know you're gigging back to back every day you know i mean you don't know who's coming a lot of people who normally come might be for a recommendation or just some tourists who might just be walking around and was like oh we'll check this out I find I think that's when you're very new you know I think when I went there me and another community called K-Card we were still quite new within our comedy journeys so you know having seen Edinburgh I think the year before you know it was like oh wow this is okay this is this is where you want to be you know because you have actors there you know you have everyone there yeah so it feels a lot of jugglers oh yeah there's loads of like real street performers isn't it yeah so I think for me the love I have for it is the craft of just entertainment and creatives that are all all types you've got burlesque people there you've got like everyone I think everyone's there yeah but I think where the hate comes the hate for me is the weather yeah of course because you like nice weather I love nice weather but you know what's what's annoying about Edinburgh weather is the fact that it's August and it feels like winter weather.

4:20You get a bit of sunshine, but you get three out of 26 days. Yeah, that's what I mean.

4:24Mo Gilligan: Yeah, and I think that for me is like, knowing that back down here in London, it's like, oh man, it's like hot every day. Yeah, but it's humid, isn't it? Yeah, it is quite humid actually. Because you dress for rain, but then all of your body heat gets contained in whatever you're wearing and then you go and see shows. Lots of people get ill during Edinburgh. Oh yeah, everyone gets a cold. Because you're kind of like hot and cold and you're sweating, but you're freezing. Yeah, it's difficult. There's also, when you go into the caves, everyone used to say that there were loads of plague, people that died of the plague buried in Edinburgh.

5:01Oh, really? And when it rains, all the plague water comes down.

5:04Mo Gilligan: I didn't know that. I don't think it's true. Oh, wow, I didn't know that. But it's horrible, isn't it? Oh, that's disgusting. So when you're watching an hour of stand-up, you're getting the plague. I didn't know that, man. But yeah, I have this love and hate for it. But I do appreciate what it does, I think, for the arts. To have something like that in our own backyard is still a privilege, I believe. And also, when I started doing stand-up in late 2006, when I started doing stand-up, there weren't that many gigs in London because I was living in St Albans with my family because I moved there in the 1980s.

5:45and I'd come into London but like when I did my first gig it was just after I wrote I wrote a play started writing it when I was in school and I finished it in 2006 but the way I do Edinburgh is I book it in I come up with a title come up with some blurb I book it in and then I write the show and then every time I get lost on the way to writing the show I just remember what the title is and what the blurb is and if I've got a really nice poster I look at the poster and say, I've got to deliver that poster. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there were hardly... So I spent ages writing this play. And then it got one star in The Scotsman.

6:26Oh, really? And it's fine. But it was a printing error and it should have got two stars, right? Yeah. But the thing is, it's like no one goes to see a two-star show.

6:34Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah. But loads of people go and see a one-star show, you know? Oh, really? Because it's terrible. I didn't know that, you know? If you've got a five and you've got a four or five and a one, I think those are the must-see shows, right? Oh, really? Yeah. So when something is bad, people want to see it? Yeah, it's cruel. I didn't know that in Edinburgh. Yeah. So it actually benefits you not to even have a show sometime. Because everyone's like, well, why is this show so bad? Is that the logic? I guess so. I guess so. My show, it wasn't bad. Yeah. But, I mean, whoever it was hated it. But, yeah, so that was my thing.

7:04It was just like, oh, right, it took me nine years to write this one-star show. So I'll just do stand-up. and when I first did stand-up, it was like you were writing stuff on the way to the gig or you were saying stuff spontaneously on stage. It's just like where you don't have to, you know, spend months and months and years writing it and rehearsing it and previewing it. You can just get up there and kind of like do it with stand-up. And then there were so many, there were so few gigs, you could do like one gig every two weeks. You didn't really learn anything in between the gigs.

7:32Mo Gilligan: Yeah. Because, you know, you'd get so nervous by the time, you'd do one gig, two weeks later, you'd get so nervous that you couldn't learn anything. So it was like really slow progression in the 2000s. Yeah, yeah. But when you do Edinburgh, you have like a year's worth of gigs in one. And so you always, especially when you're starting out, you always end up like much better than when you started, you know? Yeah. So I think Edinburgh is way too expensive to do for most people now. Oh, it's so expensive, man. And it just cuts out a huge kind of demographic of comedians, you know what I mean? You get like posh, rich people doing it.

8:08Mo Gilligan: But all the working class kids can't do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So for me, it was just completely invaluable. And also, there'd be stuff like I wasn't any good at comparing. So then you'd go up to Edinburgh and you'd go, I'm going to do comparing for a month. And by the end of the... You know, you find your weaknesses. And then you kind of like look at Edinburgh's way of strengthening that. Yeah. So, yeah. I mean, I love it. But also, it's given me so much. Yeah. you went to Edinburgh before you done stand up comedy yeah so you went there with the play of was it Romeo and Juliet Romeo and Juliet so would you say that acting was like your first love for wanting to like perform as opposed to comedy um I didn't know really what I wanted to do I knew I wanted to be creative and I knew that when I was at school um I did loads well I mean I didn't really find myself until about year 11 I like you know I didn't have a good time at school and then uh and then when I did you know So end of year 10, 11, I started hanging around with all the cool kids in the art block.

9:11And then I started doing all the school plays. And then I was in a band and I was good at art. I loved doing all the creative stuff. But in terms of kind of like sitting down and learning stuff was terrible. So in terms of acting, I knew I wanted, I thought I wanted to act. But then I was really terrible at learning lines. And I'd get so nervous at getting on stage. so then that's why I started writing because I was writing my own stuff so I could act that and I'd have more control over what I was doing and then that was like 2006, one star show and then I was like when I first did my first gig I was like

9:51Mo Gilligan: oh right, that's the missing piece and then it all just made sense after that and through stand-up I've gone back and I've done acting and I've written short films and I've done a few films and you know, I've done poetry and done some do you know what I mean? It's sort of like stand up has given me loads and Edinburgh is kind of responsible for that but you know I was happy before anything happened Are you dyslexic? No, I think I'm dyspraxic What's that one? That's like spatial dyslexia. Oh is it? But it's got nothing to do with what you're talking about Only because what you were saying before sounds so similar to myself in terms of comedy's given me a lot and it's the one thing that I really honed in on.

10:36Mo Gilligan: Like I liked anything, like I liked going to art, I liked music. Do you know what I mean? I wouldn't say I was, I'm not great at drawing, I'm not great at music, but I always liked any of the creative stuff. And once I was able to hone in, but also what you were saying about learning lines and like where I remember when I first started doing TV and I was just like, well, I've got to remember this whole paragraph. Yeah. Like, and say it to a camera. Terrific, right? I'm like, and everyone's watching me without an auto cue. I was like this is barbaric he didn't give you a normal take so it was so we was filming something what was we filming we was filming something this wasn't in a studio it was something outside and it was like you know like where a director would say yeah just say that and da da da da and you're like okay like but you know when they say the whole but say it in your own way and I was like alright cool so I've done what comics do you say it in your own way a little comedy twist and then they say yeah now if you can do the one just the lines there it is so I'm looking at this and I'm like alright cool and I'm copying a line I'm saying it and it's like yeah you missed this word and I'm like bro do it your way but do it the way we want it yeah yeah I was fighting for my life oh my god man and I kept saying it and saying it um and but again like learning lines like I'm a lot better at it now because I've found techniques that work but very early on whenever I started doing all of this stuff it was the one thing where I was like mate this is a struggle man yeah like real real real struggle yeah um so like comedy you honed in on comedy you went to Edinburgh you said in 2000 and 2006 how do you learn your lines I think now what I do I write it you know one thing I do I learn it and then I write it out I say it and then I say it with writing it out so I say it I learn it I visualise it then I write it out and I'm like cool and I go back and I keep going and I keep going and I keep saying it saying it and then I'm like I've got the line and then once I know the line then I can I try the line in different ways.

12:32Mo Gilligan: So one way that I learned how to learn lines is if you say them in different accents, because you then get to have fun of... Oh, right. Because then all you're memorizing is saying the line in an Australian accent, say the line in an American accent. But the focus isn't on the words, right? Yeah, it's now focusing on doing the accent, doing it angry, doing it happy. And yeah, that worked really well. And one time I'd done this film and we had to film it in Estonia. I learned the lines and the director was like, yeah, great. If you just do it in your own way. And I was like, oh, bro, come on, man.

13:07Mo Gilligan: I've learned these lines for three weeks, bro. So, yeah. So I think that's one trick that I learned. So anytime I meet any like young actors or I always say, look, try that. It worked for me. That's really good. I think that's really good. And it allows the brain to focus on another part. And you always know the line, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you kind of remember it in like a flat way. where you're kind of like blah blah blah blah blah blah and then sort of like the character comes in after I think um and that is not a very good way of doing it yeah but if you're kind of like learning kind of like the tones of the voice as you're coming yeah that's a brilliant idea yeah I'm gonna do that no I'll take that man take that tip anyone listening take these tips man you know I mean so you went to Edinburgh in 2000 your first show is 2006 Was that your first show?

13:53Mo Gilligan: Stand-up. Stand-up show. My first stand-up show in 2007. I started, my first gig was September 2006. And my second gig was February 2007. Oh, okay. And then I did a three-hander in Edinburgh. What, your first time doing stand-up was 2006? Yeah. Rah! So you've never done any stand-up before Edinburgh? No. Rah, that's crazy. That is crazy. because most people do like some open mics and stuff or just no i don't i don't i don't stand up like uh you know i i was doing stand up before edinburgh yeah okay yeah yeah yeah sorry yeah did you do any of the competitions because i've done a few i don't like laughing horse amuse moose laughing horse i did i do amuse moose i worked for amuse moose that's how i started i used to put out chairs for hills jay yeah big up hills man yeah yeah yeah yeah and so that's Well, on Saturday nights, I'd come into London and then I'd be part of the Amuse Moose team.

14:54Oh, yeah. We'd put out chairs. Where was it? Moonlighting, just at Great Street. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you'd just watch all the comedy for free and then you'd meet all the comedians. But yeah, that's how I started. And then I went over to do... Maybe I did the... Yeah, I did the Amuse Moose competition. I was in the same year as Catherine Ryan.

15:14Mo Gilligan: Oh, wow. Yeah.

15:18Mo Gilligan: isn't it interesting when you are in that competition because i feel like when i've done competitions i remember they would they would have a prize i remember one time the prize was like a thousand pounds and in my head i was like what if i win this i can buy a car fiat punto i said i'm gonna buy a fiat punto um and i can drive to the gigs so i'll be able to because that's a big thing when you first start doing comedy yeah i didn't have any money i had no money i had holes in my shoes yeah like i did yeah just before i did my i had like quite a big show in well the show that kind of changed my life was in 2010 and just before that i uh uh i had i didn't have any money at all like literally i mean the week before edinburgh and i ended up getting an advert and i did this advert and it was a gambling advert yeah and i felt really bad about it but it literally it was back in the days where they did repeat fees so they'd pay you loads of money for the advert for the day and they'd pay you loads of money for the photo shoot so they could promote the advert and then uh and then what you'd get was you'd get like 200 quid every time it was on tally and uh and because it was a gambling advert they showed it during the premiership and so there'd be an advert before advert in the break advert during like the chat in the middle so it was like there was so much it was absolutely ridiculous it completely changed my life but it was this gambling advert that I was really ashamed of and the whole concept of it I think it was Betfair and I think the whole concept of it was cut out the middle man so you don't have to go to a gambling shop you just go ahead and do it all online but then there was a problem with the advert because they realised that Betfair were the middleman so they deleted the advert so I got all the money but there's no proof that I did it it was great it was like the perfect crime so you get the money and then before you know it it's just wiped clean just erased trash bag empty that's cold man because I know like I've only ever done one TV advert and yeah like tv adverts especially i think for comedians as well like they are the thing where it's like you're saying it's like financially because we when you when you start doing comedy you look for avenues of like okay cool i would love to i don't know be in a film or but stand up on the circuit doesn't pay well in terms of like you can make a bit of money that can get you through maybe the week if you are even one of those paid comics but it's still a struggle do you know what I mean?

18:01To do a gig like just South London on the outskirts of South London takes about an hour to get to and then you're there beforehand and then you do the gig and then you're there a little bit afterwards and then it takes however long to get back again so sometimes you look, even with a gig in London you're looking at like maybe five or six hours to just kind of like do a round trip and so the money that you get for that you get paid for the gig but in actual fact it's taken like a whole evening to do it yeah yeah and if you're traveling outside of london you know like in manchester or somewhere you've got to go all the way there you've got to stay overnight you've got ken buck again do you know what i mean it's kind of like the the money is great from the gigs that's great but if it was just the gigs it'd be perfect yeah but it's all the time it takes around it yeah you know because people go oh you only work 20 minutes a day but sometimes you're

18:49Mo Gilligan: traveling for eight hours to do it just to get there do 20 minutes yeah hoping you're like and you know what it's like when you first are on the circuit especially that because there's that there's i always say there's like two circuits you've got your kind of mainstream london circuit where you might be doing a weekend at a club where you're like cool i learned about maybe five six hundred pounds that weekend doing a friday saturday shows your two shows and then there's that other circuit which is doing shows in the arse end of nowhere where especially if you don't drive i think people don't realize that if you don't drive which means you have to then get a train to a most randomest remote part of the country there's no uber there might be a minicab they're telling you oh no it's all right the promoter will pick you up so you gotta have this random conversation with the promoter you get there and it's it might be a pub it might be upstairs in a social club there's another comic yeah and it's it's and then it's like you've got no idea what you're walking into you have no idea but then you ever had the stress of when you're gonna get to this gig and they've you've agreed the fee and they're like oh it's it's like 150 pounds and you're like all right cool i'll do that your train ticket might have cost you 30 pounds already you know your return is at 9.30 you get there at 8 o 'clock and like yeah we're going to start a bit later wait for a few more people to come and you're like I hear that but my train's at 9.30 and they're going to pay you cash but the gig is started late the person promoting it is hosting the gig he really wants to get the gig going and make it really fun he goes on at 8.30 you go on at 9 o 'clock knowing you have a train at 9.30.

20:34Mo Gilligan: And then you're like, oh God, you're like, bro, I need to go in half an hour. You want me to do 25 minutes? It's all right, I'll drop you off. It's okay. And then you're just thinking, cool, I need to get paid cash though. Yeah. Yeah. It's a stressful life, man. It's really stressful. So stressful, man. It's really stressful. I got diagnosed with bipolar last year and at the end of the year, I got diagnosed with ADHD. Oh, boring. But that's the truth. And I didn't realise, but I can't do anything. I mean, I think that's the problem with line learning. So I can't do anything unless it's an emergency.

21:09So I do get that stress coming back from a gig, but my main stress is getting to every gig. I get so panicky that I can't read numbers or words.

21:19Mo Gilligan: Oh, wow. So, yeah, I had a gig in Crawley once, and I'd just missed my train. And I just couldn't read anything, and I couldn't read any numbers or anything. So I just had to get an Uber from fucking London Bridge. I just had an absolute meltdown. Yeah. But yeah, the travel is the most, you know, well, the travel is the most stressful thing and then the gig is stressful. I think the last five minutes before you get on stage is just the worst. And then as soon as you're on stage, it's either an amazing gig or a terrible gig or somewhere in between. But I think knowing what sort of gig it is, is just a relief.

22:01But just like, you know, coming up with, you know, I sometimes come up with like plan Bs. If I forget that bit, then I'll do this. And then you end up learning the plan B. You go, just learn plan A, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I just find, yeah, I find it, I find the whole travel and everything around the gig really stressful. But actually being on stage, I love.

22:21Mo Gilligan: It's like a relief sometimes. You're like, oh, I'm on, finally. Cool. And then sometimes the problem can be is like when the show you didn't think was going to be good actually ends up being one of your best shows in terms of, oh, this is really nice, good vibes, man. But you're like, I've got to kind of wrap this up, though, but they absolutely love me here in this small town in Folkestone. Do you know what I mean? Like, this is absolutely amazing. So you've done this Betfair advert before you went to Edinburgh in 2010, right? Yeah, I had no money, and I had loads of credit card debt, and everything.

22:58And then basically that advert paid off all my debts. And then I was debt free. I didn't really have any money, but I was debt free. And it was such a sigh of relief. Because you don't have any money and you go over your overdraft and they charge you 20 quid. And it's just like...

23:11Mo Gilligan: Listen, I've been there, man. I remember I was borrowing off a credit card lender. I used to borrow money from Wonga. Do you remember Wonga? Yeah. You used to have the adverts. Bro, their one was crazy because they would have this thing online, yeah, where you could see how much you wanted to borrow, right? And then it would calculate the interest of when you want to pay it back. So I would say, you know what? I'll take£150, but I'm like, if I pay it back this time, I'm paying back the£150. Pay it back a bit later, what,£175? What's£25 if I get another week? Oh my God, man. I started borrowing money from them.

23:52Mo Gilligan: And then there'd be times where, you know, sometimes waiting for an invoice to pay doesn't come. So I'd have to borrow money from another lender, one called Sunny. I don't remember. Have you seen that? Their adverts are crazy. They got some old Motown mutes. Sunny. I remember that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought, great advert. Borrowed from them to pay back Wonga. Yeah. And then there was another company. And then it's like, I was so young. I didn't understand all this APR stuff. Oh, yeah, me too. So they're like, yeah, man, like repayments is like 200 % APR. I'm like, should be all right, innit?

24:24But when you miss a payment, oh my God. You're just shuffling money from account to account.

24:29Mo Gilligan: Yeah, it's the worst places to be in, man. Yeah, it's awful. 100 % man, I listen. Yeah, and it's weird, like, I don't know if you had this, I remember when I paid off my debt on the credit card I had, it was such a relief for me. But doing it on the phone and being like, yeah, I'd like to pay this off and also counsel my account, it was like, all right, great. Thanks a lot, mate. All sorted by. And I was like, I wanted him to say congratulations or something. Well, you've got to do that for yourself. But yeah, it's an amazing, yeah. And I've never heard a credit card since. No? I think they're evil.

25:07Mo Gilligan: Credit cards are evil. Yeah. Do you know what it is? I think when you get a credit card, when you don't have any money, it's one of the worst things. Well, you're vulnerable, aren't you? Yeah, because you're desperate. Yeah. And it feels, I don't know, I remember when I first got one, it felt like free money. it really feels like free money I got my first one when I was at university and it was just like yeah you're like this is great man what is a swipe that's it free money it is yeah it's very dangerous man very very dangerous man so then in 2010 when you go to Edinburgh like you do this show that you say essentially like changes your life was it the show Keep Hold of the Gold was that the show yeah that's right it brought you a lot of like widespread notoriety and stuff how did it change your life?

25:50well loads of people can see it I've done Edinburgh, how many shows had I written? I did a show in 2001. I did Air Freshening in 2001. Christmas Tree in 2002. Love Life in 2004. Nothing in 2005. 2006 I did my show Stroke. 2007 I did a play called A Third of the Way Done. And my first stand-up show. Where there was three of us. and in 2008 I wrote a musical and I did my double act and I did and I compared a show and then 2009 I was meant to do a three-hander with Sean Walsh and his friend Robin Buckland and they dropped out right at the last minute and it was for PBH and I tried to like go, well I can't do the show because the two people I'm doing it with can't do it and he said you have to fill the hour otherwise i blacklist you and i was like oh and i was what 28 and um and i didn't want to be blacklisted from the industry because i didn't realize the power of pbh yeah but um so i had to do an hour and i just scraped together a bunch of like songs and poems and stand-up that i'd been working on and i took it up for the month in 2009 uh what was that called bad things happen in trees and literally first day there there was like three people in the audience and then after about a week it was standing room only and I didn't even have any flyers and I didn't have any PR or anything it was just word of mouth but you don't really know what word of mouth is when you're in it because people start coming to your shows and you're like how did this happen and so 2009 I was like fine and then 2010 I got a paid venue which was for the£5 Fringe at the Tron and I was literally I was going to do Edinburgh one last time and then I was going to take a break and when I did that same thing I went up and there was like eight people in the first day and over the first weekend.

27:53And then it built and built. I did a thing where I'd get people out the audience, where I'd get people on. And it was literally going to be one person at first. And I'd get people out the audience and I'd sing a song. And nice to meet you. Nice to greet you. Nice to meet you. Nice to greet you. Nice to meet you. nice to greet you nice to say hello hello right and I'd get someone out of the audience and I'd make them do it to me right but there were so few people in the audience just got everyone on stage and then the next day there was like 10 people and I'd get them all on stage and by the end of it it was standing room only and I was working with my friend Rob who was a guitarist and an actor and and it was just standing room only there was just sort of like I think Jimmy Carr was in and And my mate was like, what are you going to do with the audience?

28:48I said, well, just get them all on stage. So I got everyone on stage. What I would do is I'd get everyone on stage except for one person. And I think that that, it wasn't a stunt. It was just sort of like it happened quite organically. But I think that kind of like was something that people hadn't really seen before. And then everyone was sort of like talking about it. But then, yeah, Jimmy Carr came to see it. And Daniel Kitson came to see it. And based on that show, I got Russell Howard's Good News, which turned me from a middle spot to a headliner. And then it was just like, well, I have to do next year, because that went well.

29:25And then I always wanted to do The Pleasance, because I saw Al Murray at The Pleasance. And that was 2011. And I got nominated that year, and I won Dave's Best Joke. And the prize for that was£1 ,000. So I bought a laptop. And then that changed my life.

29:38Mo Gilligan: What laptop did you buy? I got an Apple. Come on, bro. I got an iMac. In 2010, that was a staple laptop back in the day. It was an investment. But yeah. Yeah, so it changed my life like that. And then it actually made me realise that, you know, I was literally going to take time off from doing Edinburgh and stuff like that. And then it was like, oh, right, it gave me the encouragement to keep going. And then it kind of built my career. Edinburgh built my career. Yeah. And in 2011, Channel 4 came to see me and they said, you know, they do the Channel 4 comedy blaps. And they said I could work with anyone I wanted.

30:20So I worked with Baby Cow, even though Baby Cow didn't really work with Channel 4, they were mainly BBC. And then because of that, the pilot for Uncle came into Channel 4, which went to Baby Cow. And then I got cast in that because we'd all worked together. Yeah, yeah. And then that was the sitcom I was in. Yeah. oh that's cold man but it's like literally it's just one thing led to another thing led to another thing you start with nothing you start with no because all the way through the 2000s didn't get any audiences really but I loved doing it so that's why I did it and I didn't have any expectations on career anything like that but then as soon as it was taking off I was like oh right well I'd like to do an album then so I did an album and I'd like to do a short film so I did a short film so it just gave you all these opportunities that you never had before with stand-up comedy.

31:10Mo Gilligan: Isn't it amazing sometimes how like with stand-up comedy and the perseverance of just keep going and before you know it, everything will kind of happen all at one stage for you, if that makes sense. Well, yeah, but it's a complete leap of faith. And it doesn't work out for everyone. And it's not necessarily a fair industry. You know, there's some really funny comedians that never quite make it. And there's some people that you don't really rate that do. Yeah, yeah. And so, but then again, And if it happens to you, it is fair because you've worked really hard. Yeah, yeah. So it's completely justified.

31:45Mo Gilligan: Finally, they've noticed. What's that feeling like of going from being a middle comedian to a headline where you've, you know, you come from Edinburgh and you have this show that everyone's talking about. And you are, you know, someone that's going on television like Russell Howard Zower. I've done some stand-up on Russell Howard Zauer and it was at a time where I was like, cool, I've got something that can go on YouTube and people can watch it. It's like a professional audience. I know this audience don't really know me or get me because it's Russell's show, do you know what I mean? But it's still a, I remember that opportunity at the time was like watching other comics.

32:20Mo Gilligan: I think it would normally be Saturdays. It would kind of air. So I think, I can't remember. I think he shared with it on BBC Three, but then they have the longer one that would have some of the stand-up on it. but I'm not too sure because I think I'd done it when he went to Sky so I'm not too sure I can't remember because it was like the extra bit at the end he hadn't seen me when I did it I don't think he'd seen me to be fair either he really distanced himself from me a few of my friends went to see him in Edinburgh they said he's good let's see what happened but that was incredible that gig was absolutely incredible because they didn't know me going on and by the end of it they went nuts and I had to do a pick up because they didn't get a line or whatever and I went, so I was off and they said you've got to go back on and do a pick up and when I went on the noise was like they just roared and I was like you know I'm just going to do the same stuff again and it was just like that was just completely Was that your first time doing stand-up comedy on television?

33:25Yeah, was it? yeah I think it was I'd done a little I've done some uh sketch stuff uh uh probably 2008 2009 but um I didn't write them and I was just part of this group but um uh yeah that was that was

33:43Mo Gilligan: the first time but obviously when did you start oh I started um I don't even know I just remember I was 19 but at the time I was just trying to do open mic stuff wherever I could just get a gig basically but i think i done russell howard's hour in may i feel like i want to say 2017 i think i might have done it right 2017 i think i've done it yeah well you know also uh you grew up in a different time to me yeah definitely which means we didn't really have uh youtube i mean we had youtube but it was like over there it was yeah you'd watch like i don't know i don't Like when I look back at YouTube, what I used to watch, and I was like, wow, this was rogue stuff, man.

34:25Mo Gilligan: I was watching battle raps to like, I don't know, man, cats juggling or some shit. It's just like, well, now it's like, YouTube is like, okay, I want to watch a deep podcast. I'm going to tune into it. Or sometimes if I need to learn how to do something, YouTube's become a huge tool for that. Yeah, absolutely. It's great. Yeah, yeah. I made some lamb chops over the summer. And I was like, I really want it to be tender and juicy. And I was watching these people and was like, okay, what do you want to do, man? So, you know, I love those YouTubers. Hey, what's up? So you want to make South lamb chops?

35:01Mo Gilligan: Great. And I was like, all right, cool, follow this. I use YouTube so much for, and just, you know, I don't know if you do this as well, where, you know, you're going to buy an electrical good and you're like, okay, let's see the reviews. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it's always the thing. It's incredible. Or you put on a five-hour podcast in the background. Yeah, yeah, when you're cleaning. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's incredible, man.

35:25I mean, the difference really is that, you know, in 2011 when I did my show, I think it was like a 70-seater. And so you do that for a month. So really by the end of the month, one and a half thousand people have seen you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that got me a sitcom. But now it's all about social media. And if you don't have a certain amount of followers, they're not interested. That's it, that's it. And it's like, I got my career of 1 ,500 people coming to see me.

35:51Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And everyone was like, well, this is a secret that we've discovered, you know. But now it's like, you've got to do it all yourself. Well, I mean, I was doing it all myself, but it's just different. You know, the business side of it is different. Yeah, I guess it's how it changes. Because even for myself, social media helped me find my audience. and I always feel like my audience helped spread the word of what I was able to do, whether it was sketch stuff or they might see some stand-up stuff. But it allowed me to do so much more than just stand-up comedy. Whereas even now that's changed.

36:27Mo Gilligan: Like you can't just, yes, you need a presence on social media, but I didn't really even use to put up too much of my stand-up. A lot of my audience didn't know I was a stand-up. They was like, oh, he does like these really funny videos of characters and whatever and i was like yeah i do stand up as well i've been doing this for like absolutely years so until i done my first show it was really i had to feel i felt like i had to prove to people that i do stand up comedy yeah because they were like oh you're gonna do some of the sketch stuff that you've done and i'm like no i'm gonna do straight stand up whereas now i think the way it's evolved of you know comics having that side of their stand up of you know I might do some sketch stuff and I have this.

37:07Mo Gilligan: I also have a podcast and I have this as well. But I also have to put up my stand-up clips as well because I know that my stand-up clips might do really well. But the stand-up clips are mainly crowd work as well. Well, that's, I mean, that's the best way. I mean, you go and see a lot of gigs and a lot of gigs are crowd work now. And it's kind of like, that's what audiences expect. And it's kind of like audience, well, younger audiences, is their relationship with stand-up is that it's mainly going to be crowd work. And when you don't do crowd work, it's kind of... You know, like when you're doing crowd work and then you slip into material and then the atmosphere changes.

37:46You're like, oh no, they don't like the material. So, you know, that's kind of...

37:55Mo Gilligan: So, like, you're in your middle, like, where you started. and you starred in Uncle on BBC Three in 2000, was it 2004 it aired? 2014. Sorry, 2014, sorry. I think maybe the pilot was 2014, 13. Hmm. Pilot was 2013, series was 2014. How was it, what was it like being part of that? Because, you know, it ran from 2014 to 2017, but did it also allow you to give you other strings to your bow in a sense because people knew you as a stand-up but you're also in this acting world as well some some people knew me as a stand-up but um but you know i i didn't have that much stuff on i don't know like it was that period of time was is a blur i can't remember what happened what year what was going on so uncle was it opened me up to an entirely new audience and also stuff like 8 out of 10 cats did that but your 8 out of 10 cats, my 8 out of 10 cats audience was different from my stand up audience and my uncle audience was different from my stand up audience so my stand up is kind of like quite, well it used to be a lot more aggressive than it is now and it used to be kind of like almost like a character on stage and now it's more kind of like I've got better at letting people in on the joke and it's more of like just like a little persona that you put on when you kind of go that you naturally sort of slip into Do people think you're a character?

39:41Mo Gilligan: Because they've seen your work so when they actually meet you as a person They're always surprised that I'm nice and they're always like of course I'm fucking I'm not him, right? yeah yeah so like yeah they are but also that was that was my that was my act and it was you know I like but that was my act from my very first gig which was I was always like I'm going to do a stand up show but as if I've just had some really bad news before I went on stage and then you've got to reluctantly see through your contractual obligation with the audience until the end of the show and I'd have like a breakdown on stage and all this other stuff and and obviously you know I just think that there's lights, you sell tickets, there's seats, there's a stage.

40:28What about this is real?

40:30Mo Gilligan: You can say stuff that's real, but it's a show. So I've always kind of seen it as a show. And when everyone takes it at face value or serious, I just find that bonkers. But people think Jimmy Carr's Jimmy Carr offstage. Harry Hill's Harry Hill. so yeah but now what I do is at the end of every gig I go out and I sell merch and I sign stuff and I have photos, no one has to buy anything I just stand out the front at the end and then they queue up and I meet everyone and it's really important to me to be kind of like to get across the fact that the show is meant to be fun and it might be a rollercoaster and you might feel a little bit scared at times or whatever, you know, because I like making people feel but because my new show is called No One Gets Out Alive and it was like it sounds threatening but it's actually a really positive uplifting show about making the most out of your life but yeah I think people, I like that I like that element where people feel like they don't know what's going to happen next but it's also really important to me to let people know that they're all safe and and that it's a show and it's an act and that's what I do on stage and off stage I'm like this and I find, you know I talk about mental health and stuff like that on stage but I never try and be preachy and I always want to feel like people can approach me and, you know, it's really important and I love my audience and, you know I like doing the merch queue almost as much as I like doing the show because you get to meet everyone.

42:14And what I would say as well is when you do a tough gig in Exeter where no one laughs for an hour or two hours and you do the merch queue afterwards, you do realise that they all enjoyed the show. They just enjoyed it differently. Because the temptation is to run away and go like,

42:33Mo Gilligan: Oh, no, what show I've ever done? But I think it's quite, you know, I'm quite proud of myself to like even if the gig is tough, I still go out there and I meet everyone and you know I love all that but I don't know if this is even answering your question but like the difference between me off stage and on stage on stage it's a show and off stage I just try and be as boring as possible really as well because back in the day you know like 10 years ago I didn't everyone liked me as a comedian and so I felt like I had to bring a bit of that into my real life. So when I was out, I'd be like, I'd say outrageous things and I'd act like an animal, which wasn't really me.

43:22But I was sort of insecure about why people liked me because I'd been doing shows for such a long time and my personal life was really up and down and all this other stuff. And so when all of a sudden you get this spotlight on you and get all this attention, it's confusing at first. And you don't know why people, you don't know what it is that people have hooked in on, you know. And so, yeah, I was kind of, you know, I was kind of like trying to be everything for other people and I didn't really know who I was. And like the last 10 years, I've kind of like really kind of got back in line with myself.

44:05and I think there's a thinner line between me on stage and off stage now. I'm a lot more calm and relaxed but on stage I'm a lot more kind of open and I think like before I was kind of writing I was taking my life experiences amalgamating them and turning them into fiction you know, so it might be like I'm talking about a breakup but it might be like five different relationships rolled into one and then you're telling a story but now I'm kind of like just more like this is what's happened to me this year and making a show out of that and I much prefer it this way I think it's kind of like I'm much more relaxed I write on stage but I think you know with the line learning and everything like that I think that must be, looking back at my life you go I think that's you know I was diagnosed with depression my whole life and then last year they were like well you got bipolar and then they gave me the medication for that and then like all my depression went and then you know 44 43 i was then and then at the end of the year it was adhd and they gave me medication for that and it was like oh my god i can concentrate and the noises in my head have gone away yeah yeah and um and i think that you know i look at i used to have to learn my lines for uncle scene by scene as we did them so i and something happened with my short-term memory where like um after like a few days you could look at a page and you'd get the gist of it and by the time you know you got the lights and the cameras were set up and you'd kind of done a few takes then it was like like perfect and then you've done it but um but it was a nightmare because because you need to be it needed to be an emergency before i could do anything yeah and um and and looking back on that you know you can kind of like go i'd have done things differently had I had known.

45:59But now it's kind of like, it's sort of like informed me that those are my weaknesses and those are my shortcomings. And that means that I can kind of like take a run up at that rather than leaving it to the last minute.

46:12Mo Gilligan: You said how you got diagnosed with bipolar. And you said, did that make it easier to write or was it harder? What were the meds? Yeah. Well, that's the big fear, isn't it? It's like, I know lots of comedians that have depression. There are lots of creative people that are scared about medication because they think it's going to change their brain and how it works. I think there's good and there's bad things to it. I think, but I think the good outweighs the bad in terms of I'm not suffering for my art anymore. I don't have to be suicidal in order to write something. Because I was, you know, I had suicidal thoughts in my head the whole time.

46:54It's just a bit heavy. go as heavy as you need to so I had all these suicidal thoughts in my head and I used comedy as a way of you know dealing with that it was not like oh it's therapy I'd always like concentrate mostly on the entertainment value but that depression kind of like funnelled into everything that I did and it's like and I used to write songs when I was depressed and poems when I was depressed and you're like channeling that depression into something and I always thought that as long as I'm doing something creative with it, then it's not a waste of time. You're not wasting your life kind of like feeling terrible.

47:37And now it's like I'm sort of the happiest I've ever... I mean, until last year, I don't know if I'd ever really experienced happiness before. And so I'm sort of like now I'm the happiest I've ever been. and rather than kind of needing depression in order to write and scraping by you know just getting what you can and doing a show every year and getting through it um it's like um you know i'm i've got i've got complete control over myself in a way and i'm writing shows about stuff that um I'm happy about I'm trying to make audiences happy and I want to make audiences happy without going like A to B so I like people on a rollercoaster and taking them down and then bringing them up again at the end so they all leave feeling incredible and that was what was great about my first few shows was that everyone always left incredible it was like being on the saw ride but by the

48:39Mo Gilligan: end of it you're like oh well and so So, yeah, I think the good outweigh the bad. The bad side of it is that I don't have that immediacy. I don't have that emergency factor where it's last minute and I don't know what I'm doing until I got on stage and then all of a sudden I've got a show where I'm slightly better at prepping stuff, but I don't have that emergency level which I kind of used to rely on to get stuff done. and it's almost like I have to be right there in front of the audience in order for it to kick in, you know, my stage persona to kick in, because I'm not like that anymore. But the good stuff is, like, I'm happy.

49:25My relationship with my parents is better. My relationship with my sister is better. I can turn up for my niece. I'm a better friend to people. I look after people. I try and use kind of, like, whatever I've got in order to, you know, help other comedians up through the circuit or whatever do you know what I mean you know I just feel like I'm a better person now that I'm on drugs than I was before you know yeah yeah it's because it's because I'm not in my own head all the time you can see out of the windows you know and be like oh right and windows are eyes yeah yeah

49:58Mo Gilligan: you know it's interesting you what you're saying because a lot of comics myself included we can often write our best stuff when it's fight or flight mode where you know when we say you know we're going to go on tour we put our tickets on a year in advance we put the title out tickets are on sale and nine times out of ten if you ask a comic if you got your tour ready like or your show like nah i'm ready yet yeah but then we know like when it gets to the crunch of like i've got four months to do this tour but also you you know what the show you kind of know what the show is going to be and you don't want to be ready too early yeah i was talking to my dad last night because i've had some really good previews and i had a couple of weird ones over the weekend and uh and i you know and me and my dad don't talk about comedy or work really but i just was sort of like i've been on my own all day and it was the first person that phoned me and i was talking to him on the phone and i was like saying yeah it's like this and he goes yeah well you don't want it to be ready yet you want it to be ready on the day of the show and you go out and it's got that energy and that spontaneity of it.

51:05And your tickets might be on sale for a year and you think about the show for a year and you're kind of like going, I could do that, I could do that. You start trying stuff out. But it's not finished until you do it. And I think that's good.

51:19Mo Gilligan: It's weird. It's weird as a comic because it is the better way to write because I've written shows where I'm like, I've got the show in the bag and you perform it and you're like, this wasn't it. wasn't it the two times I was nominated the two times I was nominated it was I'd do previews with people and they'd have finished shows you know and then and I didn't and my show came together within the first three days of the festival but I got nominated for both of them and it's kind of like I don't think you know sometimes doing all your homework and being completely prepped and you know having everything ready in advance isn't great you want to build up to the point where you're match fit and then you can do the tour and then I think after the tour you've got a two week period where you match fit and then you forget how to do it again oh my god it is it's so weird where you know like the tour is kind of coming up to a close and you're like I feel like the strongest I've probably ever been as a comic where I feel sharp I'm coming up with new stuff and that moment where you're like okay well that's it show's done now I'm gonna I don't know if you have this but I do this thing where I'm like let's chill out for a bit now yeah I might I might go on a break for like a year yeah I might go travelling and then like you you miss it and you're like nah man can I write another show again and it for me it's always the I don't know if I can do it again you know I don't know if I can write a show of that level that I've just finished again yeah but something always says to you let's give it a go yeah but every show I do is the best show I've ever done yes until the next show and it's just because you love the show and you're addicted to it and you've been living in it for such a long time yeah but yeah i like to just kind of like keep moving um but yeah i but i don't write stuff how do you do it do you do you like writing paragraphs with sentences and full stops sometimes like i think once i have the material once i've got the material like there in my head i'm like ah we can expand on this now i think going into any show like recently i started doing some work in progress shows and i drive i just try my best to hit a few bullet points of like i've got a bit on this let's see where it goes we've got a bit on this let's see where it goes and it is essentially like writing and directing it on stage yeah i think what i've what helps me more now than ever is listening back to it because it's so different when i'm like i listen back and i'm like ah you could have said that because then i start feeling like the audience and watching it now I think once I watch it back, it's like, you know what?

53:58Mo Gilligan: I had a bit there. Maybe if I scrap all of that beginning bit, that didn't really go anywhere. But that little bit is a bit there, and we can see where that bit goes. And I think that's probably helped me the most. I think before I was always writing of, I was writing for so many aspects of like, okay, cool, this show's going to be this, that, and the other. And if I can take that bit off there, and the audience will like this bit there, we'll have a bit of crowd work here. and before I knew it I was like oh this is this is too stressful man it's like writing it's like writing an album and you're trying to write the song for the festival for the club and for the car at the same time and you're like the audience will decide what they want to hear at the festival and the club and the car at different times do you know what I mean you're not you're not in charge of your hit single yes yeah yeah yeah your favourite bit might be something that no one else likes and then they'll take this thing that you kind of like all right yeah but you're not in control of that it's kind of weird isn't interesting with comedy where you've got a bit where you're like i don't know if you have this as well i have this thing where i'm like i love like there'll be a bit where you're like i love doing this bit you do it and then i don't know if you have this one you're on tour but after a while you're like this bit isn't fun man i can't wait to get this bit over now because there'll be a bit where i'm like i love this bit but my audience aren't loving it but i am and it's the realization of like you you know what, I think I might have to drop this man because it's not working out and only I like it.

55:26Mo Gilligan: Yeah. Yeah, there'll be jokes or something that you really like. It might work in a preview as well or it might work in a few previews and then when you're on tour it doesn't work regionally. It's just a reference that people, not because it's region specific, but just like you go around the country and people don't like that. but I stick to my guns and I do it anyway. But yeah, I think... Because you do it, there's a part of doing it for self. You're like, listen, you might not get a big laugh everywhere else but I'm going to do this bit for me, man. But I also think that once you've nailed a bit and you've written it and you've performed it a few times and it's really great, then your mind sort of like goes to the other bits that you want to bring everything else up and maybe concentrate on some of the other weaker bits and then you get into them and then you really like them and then your shiny new thing that you used to have that you loved you've kind of replaced with some other bits yeah and then it's like i've got to trudge through this bit now i've got 10 minutes i've got to trudge through with mixed results and uh yeah you have a great ability of of bringing music into your comedy and blending that in um are there ever times where you you think like you'd ever wanted to be a musician because i again I like using music within my comedy to sometimes bring out more of the comedy, but just more of the act for some parts of my material.

57:00Mo Gilligan: And in the back of my head, there are times I'm like, I could be a musician, you know, I could, I feel like I could do it. But at the same time, I'd be around real musicians and I'm like, oh, fuck that. That's long, man. I ain't got time to do all that. How is it for you? um well i mean yeah i mean i always wrote songs i wrote songs since school and i wanted to be in some bands and i was in probably two or three bands and we hardly ever did anything we didn't really gig or anything like that um yeah so i always was interested in music that show that got one star i did uh there was like three or three or four songs in it and they were all really like sincere heartache you know it was yeah really i was a young kid that was writing from the heart and uh people laughed at them because they were so sincere and then i was like right they're comedy songs then and then that was like okay so i think my level of comedy my my style of comedy with songs i've said i have different styles where one of them is like i'm a guy that is singing something uh really rude but he doesn't realize it yeah um or there's one like like part of the joke is that you know i got a song called you make me sore right and it's about like flying but it's also about getting knob rot.

58:35But I'm singing this song like it's about flying but the whole chorus is you make me sore, right? And so that's like a song where I'm not in on the joke and then some songs are really rude and some songs... I'm just finishing an album on Monday that will be out at some point maybe before Christmas and some of the songs on that... That's songs from over the last 10 years. And looking at the last 10 years of what I've done, some of them are funny, some of them are not funny, and really sort of like some of them are sad. It's like a really kind of like downbeat album. But it's kind of like what I find difficult about, and I don't see myself as a musical comedian.

59:24I'm a comedian that does music, which is a bit wanky, but I mean

59:29Mo Gilligan: Take it man, I say that I say the same thing man I feel like you have to draw that line I'm not a musical comedian but but kind of like a lot of the songs kind of they go you can't just write a song there's got to be an element to it which is either kind of like humorous or just outright funny or it's got to serve some sort of purpose other than being a song. So it's difficult in a way because you write a song and you want the song to be a good song. It's got to be able to exist as a song. So you could put it on and go like, I love this song. And it's got to have some hooks to it. It's got to have a good chorus.

1:00:16It's got to have a guitar solo in there somewhere. And it's got to have all these bits to it to make it a real song. And then on top of that, it's got to also be funny or have some sort of justification of doing it on a comedy stage, you know, which is has good and bad kind of connotations. So, yeah, I mean, I did. I did kind of want to be a musician, but like I said, I wanted to be a musician, wanted to be an actor, wanted to be a writer, wanted to be all those things. And then comedies just opened that all up for me. and um you know because uncle was about a musician and um and but it was originally it was about an out-of-work actor and um uh and then they brought me on and uh they were like well why henry normal who's like my comedy dad he used to run baby cow um he was just like well nick's a musician so why don't you make the character musician and then nick can do a song in every episode and then i did songs in every episode and then people come up to me when i'm doing previews i don't really do

1:01:24Mo Gilligan: songs i kind of leave that for the tour so people come up to me at previews go you can do any songs it's like not today but yeah um so yeah but uh yeah i mean i would have been i think i would have been happy doing anything creative i've done office jobs and i've worked in pubs and my favorite job ever was working in a pub um but office jobs killed me yeah and um i always wanted to work in an office job you know oh really yeah oh yeah i just wanted to do admin it sounded like the most important job in the office i was like yeah i do admin bro i used to work at i used to work at business link in hatfield yeah and um and like monday to wednesday lunchtime you would have to get uh all of these handwritten forms that people had uh filled in and you would have to type in uh all their names they'd be in those tiny little boxes right you type in all their names and then you'd type in their postcodes and their phone numbers and then you'd have to do a little write up and you'd do that Monday to Wednesday and you couldn't do it with a hangover because if you did it wrong you'd have to do it again and you'd just do that you'd sit at your desk and you'd do that all day Monday, all day Tuesday all day Wednesday up to lunchtime and on a Wednesday lunchtime to Friday you stuffed envelopes and you were like thank fuck I'm stuffing envelopes but then by the time you get to Friday I can't wait to fill in those numbers do you know what I mean yeah that was really it was great to do that you know to realise it was like I don't want to do this it gave me the kick in the arse to do it and I was doing gigs in that was about 2008 I was doing gigs in London and the trains were always fucked so I'd do like a day at business oh my god I'm just remembering this I'd do a day at Business Link and then from Hatfield I'd go into London and I'd do I used to do I used to be like what do you call it I guess I was a showrunner for this show in Soho and so I had to be there for the whole show I did the tech box and everything like that and then I'd miss the trains and then we'd go you know I was like 27 I was like a little baby and I was taken out by the guys that did it and they'd take me out afterwards and you'd go like well, this might be good for my career.

1:03:45I love drinks with the people. Yeah, yeah. And then you'd miss your last train back. And so I remember I used to sit at Blackfriars Station until five o 'clock in the morning, get the first train back, have an hour's sleep, and then go and do a whole day at business. Fucking hell, man. It was like, yeah. Hardcore.

1:03:59Mo Gilligan: That's great. That's something for the autobiography. I forgot all about that. That's amazing. One hour's sleep, you know. Oh, mate. Yeah, man. So you're on tour, right? I'm going to be, yeah. You're going to be on tour. Next Friday. Where can people buy the tickets and all that good stuff? They can buy the tickets from nick-helm.co.uk. And, yeah, it starts on the 12th of September. You're excited about being back on tour? Yeah. Because it's 12th of September to November, right? 29th of November. 29th of November is Leicester Square. Okay. We're finishing London. And I've got one gig in St. Albans.

1:04:42And where we moved to and I grew up. And that venue was twice as big as any of the other venues for some horrible reason. Oh, right. It's like, not because we've sold it, just because they've gone, do you want to do the Auburn Arena? And it's like, it's an 850 seater. And I was like, oh, man. It's like, that's my hometown. I've never done a tour show in my hometown. No way. And I'm like...

1:05:05Mo Gilligan: How come? You just never came out before? I didn't want to. I was scared. And now I'm doing it. And it's like, oh, no, it's the worst possible. No, you'll smash it though, man. Yeah, I hope so. You'll probably get loads of, I don't know, maybe old friends and stuff that will come to the show. I think a lot of school friends. But then, you know, there's also people that come out the woodwork, aren't there? Yeah, sometimes that's good though, man. Yeah. Yeah, my last tour show was my favourite show that I'd ever done, just like the show before that. Yeah. And I'm really enjoying the previews. I'm really enjoying doing the show.

1:05:35I'm really looking forward to going on tour. Every show is going to be slightly different. there's a bit of crowd work and audience stuff some songs some stand up it'll make you feel incredible when you leave that's my goal and so the songs and everything else it's like I want to put on a variety show a one man variety show and you know just bombard them with all of these different things and by the end of it they all leave happy so yeah I can't wait

1:06:03Mo Gilligan: so you're Rend right you know you speak about you know writing from a dark place and now enjoying writing from a light place and i noticed you mentioned how you know you want to be the comic that can help you know up-and-coming comics you know especially working at like a muse muse where you see a lot of new people coming through and i feel like you've done a a wide range of like comedy in a sense of like you know you've been going to Edinburgh you've been on the panel shows you've been on a sitcom you you're a comic who is able to as well as do stand-up you can incorporate music in it in some some ways so so how do you look at your rend in terms of how do you aspire to be that older comic that becomes the quote-unquote uncle for the new comics you know how do you how do you envision that in some ways because your route is super inspiring in a way where you spoke about even things on the pod that one people will listen to, but other comedians will listen to and say, oh my God, that's maybe how I write or I write in a dark place.

1:07:16Mo Gilligan: And I think some people might think it's okay to write in a dark place because you get the results, whereas you can write in the light and get the same results. You can write about your experiences, you know, your dark experience. You can write about that. But if you're writing it from it in a place where you're happy, it's not like you're doing it for survival. You're doing it because you're creating something that you've got control over. Yeah. But what do you mean? Like what advice have I got? Yeah, because, you know, you're at a stage where your experience is so vast and you know you're going to be that uncle figure within comedy do you know what i mean so how do you um look at passing that that blueprint over to you know the comedians you want to try and help i would say most things i've done for the money have been my least favorite things oh wow and uh the stuff that i've done which doesn't pay that well uh is the stuff that i enjoy the most So there's that balance.

1:08:21But I would say that if you're doing it because you love doing it, I think people use it as a stepping stone, which is fine. But if you're doing it because you love doing it, then you can't fail. And if you're doing it because you love doing it, then you get good at it. And then once you're good at it, then it's almost impossible to ignore you, right? so whether whether it's to be kind of like a tv personality or a film star or just a really good stand-up comedian if you're doing it because you want to be a stand-up comedian or you you know if you're doing it for pure reasons i think that it's it's sort of impossible to fail and and and and i also think the thing is you need to know what you want because i think that in the industry you get swept along by just looking over the fence and seeing what everyone else is up to and you don't tend your own garden and I just think that it's good to have blinkers sometimes and to not be looking at what everyone else is up to and to just focus on what it is that you want because you can get lost in that you can get lost for years just like chasing stuff that you're not even interested in and I know that kind of like when I was all swept up in kind of TV and stuff like that it was just like what's the next thing what's the next thing wasn't enjoying anything and I think like in 10 years time I just want to be like a really I want to still be doing you know my comedy you know there was a point where when I was doing TV I kind of like was so relieved because I got so stressed about comedy I never enjoyed it I never enjoyed stand up up to a point and then I did TV it was like oh thank fuck I'm doing TV because now I don't have to and tv is the opposite of uh uh stand-up where stand-up is door-to-door sales and tv is like you get a wide audience but you don't have to travel anywhere and when I did tv it was such a relief and then during the pandemic I kind of like stopped getting any tv work and so it's like oh fuck I've got to go back to doing stand-up which I was terrified of but then I was like if I've got to if I'm making my living off of stand-up I've got to start enjoying it and so I just trained myself to enjoy it and I worked out the best way for that is for me to kind of like just have less to remember so I'd have like a couple of notes on my hand and then I'd go out and I'd do it and I kind of didn't want to think about the gig until like a minute before I had to go on stage.

1:10:57My dream was to walk to a club and they say my name and I'd just walk on stage, do my act and then I'd come out again but you know I had to train myself to get to that point and now I kind of think I feel like I'm the best comedian I've ever been and I just want to get better and that's it really if you know what you want and you work towards it then I think what's fair about the industry is that it is achievable you can see that it's achievable because it happens for other people but the other thing is there's only one of you so other people might be getting these opportunities but you're not that person do you know what I mean and you shouldn't necessarily compare yourself to those people you should kind of like just kind of work out what it is that you want and what you are and then go for that I think but and enjoy it because if you don't enjoy it what's the point

1:11:51Mo Gilligan: wise words from Nick Helm nah Nick man it's been a pleasure to have you on a pod man and that bit where you said look at your own garden because if what did he say if you don't look at your own garden I said what is it if you spend all your time looking over the fences then you don't tend your own garden hey that's a bar man because I'll be looking at my neighbour's garden sometimes I'm like right that grass is really green we all do we all slip into it and then you lose you lose time and you lose opportunities because you're chasing things that you're not even interested in you know so but Nick man it's been such a pleasure to have you on the pod man the tour is on sale now Nick Kelm no one gets out alive um available um online on your website and stuff right thank you so much for coming on the pod thanks for having me it's been such a pleasure man and this has been your beginning middle and end thank you very much appreciate you man appreciate you man hey what's up thank you so much for listening to the podcast today now a lot goes in to making each episode i know you hear my voice but there's a team behind the scenes who helped make it and if you did enjoy it I'd really really appreciate if you could show the love to them by giving us five stars and if you also have the time please leave us a review it's always appreciated and we love reading the comments and of course we want to keep making it better thank you for listening and have a great day peace