OTI MABUSE

0:00Mo Gilligan: Hey, what's happening people? My name is Mo Gilligan and this is the Beginning, Middle and End podcast. Now this is where I'm going to be asking some of my favourite people about how they started, where they are now and the legacy they want to leave. Now my guest this week is a triple threat. That's right, she's a dancer, she's a choreographer and she is a charismatic TV personality. She's going to be talking through her journey with me from studying engineering in her native South Africa to winning championships on the world's biggest stages. And also turning Bill Bailey into an unexpected winner on Strictly Come Dancing.

0:39Mo Gilligan: That's right. We speak about everything. Her family life, her new book and her up and coming tour. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the podcast, Oti Mabuse. How you been though? You alright? I feel like I ain't seen you in time but I've seen you in everywhere the last time we saw each other Brits was it the Brits the Brits and you were like hi Oti nice to see you bye and I was like where are you going come talk to me yeah it was the Brits the Brits or the NTAs somewhere I don't know I was having a good time couldn't remember it might have been the NTAs you know I love the NTAs see the NTAs is I like the NTAs but there's so much going on man you know you got to do that red carpet that's what i told you you're right ot okay see you later yeah the red carpet is so stressful because it's like like everyone's trying to get their picture in it and i get it yeah i i get it i don't really like doing interviews if i got nothing to promote yeah so if i got nothing to to promote they're like come and talk about this i'm like i really got nothing to talk about you know i don't want to waste your time i appreciate it because you know what it was like there was a time when you've done it you're like i want to speak to everyone everyone and then you're like i will wait in this two hour queue for that one photo yeah and then and then when you get to a point you're like no i'm all right you know when you when your pr person is like yeah so oh she just come over yeah yeah if you just stand right there yeah yeah yeah and you're like oh right this is what it's like yeah but you can skip the queue my pr is literally outside she's like arrive at this time we'll do the right couple for five minutes and then you're that's me that's why I love the events I must think it must be so much harder though for women when it comes to like the red carpet because it's like you know outfit makeup hair I've been on some of them red carpets and I'm like hey my face is cream my hair's brushed I'm good to go let me tell you I intentionally so have I I've literally I've had one incident I think it was the Brits because I love the Brits because it's a bit wild yeah yeah yeah the Brits is a vibe and I was doing the red carpet with Ashley Walters and I was getting warm and slowly but surely I could just feel the wig slipping back.

2:53How was it slipping? Slipping back. And then I sat on the ITB table with Joel Domet and Joe. And you know, Joe, when he talks to you, he looks a little bit up.

3:03Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, why is this guy looking up? And I feel a draft. Yeah. I checked my phone. It's here. It's here. Halfway. And I'm like, these white people will never tell me my workers fall in on they're too polite in this climate right now there's no chance boy they don't know if that's the style or not yeah they were like are we gonna save her or did she do that because of the break just ran to the toilet so yeah now i'm i know what you mean now i make sure that i'm put together yes yeah i'm late but i'm put together yeah and you know what i've always about you ot yeah from the moment i met you yeah god you was like like don't get me wrong you're always yourself yeah but like you know you meet someone and you see their real authentic self from day one sometimes even for me yeah like it might take you a couple times you meet me that you really see the real mo yeah like i give everyone the same like oh what's good man nice to meet big oh yeah yeah yeah yeah and then after you know me you're like oh yeah most chill man Yeah, yeah.

4:05Mo Gilligan: It'll be like, yeah, Mo, set in five minutes. I'm like, nah. Allow me, man. I'm coming, man. Allow it. Yeah. And then people are like, oh, okay. I thought you was, I thought you was one of them teacher pet guys because you're looking at the scripts and that. I remember I'm going to dance and then I have to give you a call time, like 10 minutes before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just to get you moving. Yeah, man. Everyone I work with, they're like, right, you're so laid back, man. But then you're also like so on it. And I'll be like, yeah, okay. Can I get green tea, please? Okay, great. And so I say that a bit.

4:40Mo Gilligan: And people look at me like, hey, bro, why are you doing all this, man? And I just get there and I'm loud. I'm like, hey, bro, we're late. There's no African timing. But then the first time I met you was when we'd done Masked Dance Up. Yeah. Yeah. And I never forget because around those times it was... Lockdown. It was lockdown. We was in Wembley Arena. Yes. I'll never forget this. And I walked in on the job. And I had only just done a little bit of like Masked Singer at that time anyway. But even when I'd done it, it was still like lockdown. And I walked in and I could hear Cardi B. And I was like, Rob, who is blazing that?

5:19Mo Gilligan: Who's blazing Cardi B? And I was like, okay, it's definitely not Joel. It's not Joel. Because Joel was like proper professional. He's on his team. Yes, he did, right in the script. And I was like, oh, is that Davina? And like Davina's vibes, isn't it? We know Davina's good vibes. Like, like Jonathan, he plays like, he'll play like some, some James Bond theme music or something more. Yes. Soul or like proper old school. Like he brings a vinyl player into his dressing room. So what was that? Right, is that Ozy? I was like, right boy. And then like, it was, it was loud. What song was it? I think it was WAP.

5:53Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. WAP, WAP, WAP. It was such a weird experience for me actually Because I had just left Strictly No, I was still in Strictly And I'm so used to Once we do the show We celebrate We bring a speaker We bring a bottle of wine And we have a good time after the show This was my first ITV experience And I got there I was playing the music I had my little bottle in my little fridge

6:23Mo Gilligan: After the show I was ready for a good time. By the time I was done with my hair and makeup, everyone was gone. Yeah. Everyone was out. I was like, listen, bye. I'm gone. I was like, wait a minute. I thought this was ITV. I thought this was where the party's at. I went in Davina's room. It was clear. You wouldn't think anyone was there. You were the only one left there. You were laughing. You're like, Oti, what's going on? I'm like, I'm confused. Yeah, yeah, because you were like, hey, what's going on, man? And that was that Me after the show I'm like Alright but let me just sit down For a piece Just chill out Relax You was like Yeah what's good I remember you said Do you want some wine And I was like I said I don't know If we're allowed to do that I was like I'll pour it to you I'm still outside the room I'm still two metres away from you But let's have a drink And then I remember We got told off And then they were like After the show No talent is allowed to stay You're supposed to all go home Yeah yeah yeah Never brought it again Until the final though No, but it was good, man.

7:25Mo Gilligan: It was a great introduction to meeting you, man. I was like, yeah, boy, yeah, big Oti, man. Yeah, Oti's vibes, man. She's good vibes, man. Speaking of vibes, you grew up in South Africa. You know what, weirdly, I love about South Africa. I think when I went, I went around, I want to say August. So am I right in thinking, oh, I think we went 20... Oh, great. I thought you were going to say pre-1994. oh, that was going to change the whole direction from the conversation. Not them times, bro. Yeah, I was like, oh, wow, you made it out. Well done. But when we went, so I was only there for two and a half weeks, went to Rustenburg, and we was in Cosmo City.

8:05Mo Gilligan: And what I liked about it, the authenticness, going back to, it's just like, the sun was out, but people had woolly hats on and jackets. And I said, I said, what's going on here, man? Why has everyone got a woolly hat on and a jacket? it is baking outside it's 22 and everyone was like nah bro this no this ain't hot you know listen 22 is attempted murder for us you're trying to kill me at 22 but also it's just like it's only i only say until it's until you go there you understand it as a place because it's like the community that it has like the people there where people can smile they will smile at your face and they'll be like yeah like when you leave we need your shorts yeah we'll rob you yeah yeah and i'm like what you're not joking like no like how many times did i say to you you look like a walking atm oh yeah yeah fair times i was like that that necklace i wanted but the authenticness was amazing that i got to experience that and i knew obviously that you're from south africa you grew up there but then i didn't know that growing up like when you went to university you studied civil engineering yeah yeah and that's so different away from the dancing what you do now and stuff so what made you kind of pursue that i mean my parents you know coming from a real african household in the history of south africa really where my parents grew up in the era where they had to fight politically for their education so the only thing they know where you want your kids to go further in life is through education system and they're like you have to study you have to study either engineer doctor accountant and anything else you're just a failure to life you know you're an embarrassment to the family so that was something or a lawyer actually because my dad was a lawyer that was something that my parents felt really passionate about that you need to go to school you need to go to university we know you dance because my mom got me into dancing when I was four.

10:08But they were like, that's just a hobby. It's not a real thing. And in South Africa, in their defense, it's really, really tough. It's really tough to say I'm a professional dancer. That's it. And they were like, you don't have an eye out of the choice. You have to study. And you have to study something that you can support yourself once we're gone. You know how African parents are? They always threaten you with death.

10:31Mo Gilligan: And literally go, when I'm gone, what are you going to eat? so you have to go to university and so I was like yes they're right I have to go to university I have to be with the boy that I was with for four years I have to get married I have to have three kids and so that for me felt like the road the route I was going to take then I started working and I just didn't like it I really did I was like in the middle of nowhere it was hard you had to wait for projects projects take about one two in Africa sometimes three years to develop and I was like I can't this can't this can't be my story yeah yeah yeah and I was in a place where I was starting out as an intern and I wasn't getting paid enough so I was teaching dance on the side to be able to pay for me to go to work and I was like that's not my hobby my weekend job shouldn't pay for my actual career that's not that's like it just feels weird to me and I was like well if I'm happy here and I'm making money here and I can survive with my dance money let me do it full time and then my mom was like you can't do it in Africa I was like fine I'll leave and she went what I'm like I'll go to Germany and I'll do it there full time and they said if you leave we're not helping you we're not helping you financially we're not helping you with anything if you decide to leave the house you're not gonna get the car they bought me a car I had my own room that it had all tv in it as dstv i had all the channels i had everything you could dream of in the house and they were like once you leave all of this is gone and you're gonna have to fend for yourself and i was like okay cool but then they bought me my flight they bought me my flight yeah yeah um and then that was it and then i was like okay i have to do this on my own and why why germany of all places my sister was there already mutsy had been in germany for 10 years so So it felt...

12:24Mo Gilligan: Oh, okay. So your sister was there. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. It felt like if I was going to fail, I'd have someone to catch me. Because Monty's always been that, I would say that landing board for me. When I just feel like I'm at my worst, I can't do this. Or I'm in our family, we're very competitive too much. Where, you know, when you start to see the crazy Oti come out. Yeah, yeah. She's like, calm down. Like, it's not that deep. Calm down. So she's always been the oldest sister, mother figure in my life. And so I knew if anything went wrong, I would always go to my sister. But also Germany is one of the few countries in Europe where they see dance as a sport, which means as a professional dancer, you get financial, like you get sponsorship, you get endorsements, you have your apartment paid for, travel.

13:12So it's seen as a job. You're seen as an athlete and you're trained as an athlete. Where in most countries, they see it as an art. So the government doesn't invest in it.

13:20Mo Gilligan: They don't fund it. And that's why you have so many artists who are failed artists and don't achieve their dreams. But because there's just no funding, there's no help. And as an artist, you need help. Yeah. So Germany felt like the right place. That must have been so good at like, you know, leaving South Africa where they don't look at what you do as almost as like a job or as a career. To then go to a place where they actually support it openly. You've got your sister there as well. What part of Germany was it? In Nuremberg. Oh, right. Yeah. But I also have to say it was a timing thing. Because Germany is quite, it's a unique country culturally in itself.

14:02I would say the time I moved was a time where the country and the people were very receptive to black people. There's a lot of black people in Germany as well.

14:12Mo Gilligan: Yeah, but especially in television where they start to go, diversity is a thing. We need a black dancer. We need someone to represent. And I felt really lucky that I came at that point where the doors opened because of that. And so I learned a lot. Whereas when Mutsi came, it was just very like, no, this is new. She came 10 years before me. So it was, no, this is too much. This is extreme. This is a risk. Where I came in, they were like, we need this. It makes the show different. So did you just start learning the language from the off? No, so the deal was, I leave engineering, but I continue studying in Germany.

14:53And so I learned for a year. I went to school every day to learn the language German, to get into a Langen university to study civil engineering there.

15:04Mo Gilligan: Oh, wow. So that was... That's like a good uno reverse. Yeah, I know. Wow. But it didn't work because I was like, I have to go to practice. Like, this is not, this is taking my money. it's not giving me money it's wasting my time it's delaying my dream and the dream is to be a champion and i feel like plan b is taking too much energy and effort from plan a yeah so i was like i'm gonna stop what's the black community like in germany because i know it's mad because i think sometimes it's in london we think that like oh yeah there's because you know if you go to paris you see a lot of black people um it may be i'd say the other place i've probably been um i've to lisbon yeah quite a lot of black people there um but i know in germany i think i don't know if i'm right but i think it's close to like either the first or second biggest population of black people in europe yeah i think it's either germany i think it might be berlin or paris that london's like third or fourth yeah in that list yeah it's a it's a because germany it is a really big country and there are a lot of villages if there is a black person there's one black person in that village so there's not really like a collection but in the main cities when you think frankfurt is the main city there's a lot of diversity in it it's different parts of africa and you know what it is when you see another person from africa you're like yeah we made it we're safe i mean some place in the world as soon as i see one person i'm like it was good man yeah i see you you see me we're family we're family now we're meant to be together so i i mean when you're in a country like that when they where there's not so many people that look like you you are automatically put in that position where you represent a lot of people not just your family now it's black people and then not just black people then it's african people and they're not african but that is black women so like you're just catapulted into that position so very early on because muts is really really famous in germany i knew i had to respect that and protect that for her and when it came to me i wanted to emulate that in a way because we we mean a lot to that community and we represent a lot so germany became where i learned kind of like how to deal with this world did it feel like you had to work a bit harder because you know your sister's well known there yeah so you had to be like well you know when it's whenever someone has like a relative or you know their dad or their mom and you're like like and it's a family name do you know what i mean where you're like oh you got big shoes to fill because who your sister is do you know what i mean no i didn't feel like that i felt like my sister kicked down all the doors and i just pranced through really it wasn't it wasn't difficult because people love her there and they trust her and she's been a part of so many people's households that when i came through they were like what there's more than one oh sick yeah yeah yeah yeah that's wicked yeah do you know i mean to any event it's like we've not got one mabusa we've got two and they're funny and they're loud and they're proud of being South Africans and they speak German.

18:22So it was really, really nice to have that blanket that she was when I was there. It got scary for her when I left because the only thing I felt was when I was in Germany, and this is something that the UK strictly don't do. If you have a certain type of partner, they keep you with that partner forever. So if they They go, oh, Oti is really funny, so she'll be with comedians. They just keep you with the same type of personality. Where I was like, this is my ambition, my craziness. This is not going to work for crazy Oti. And when you come here, they change people. They go, oh, you've had a presenter.

19:04You can have a comedian or you can have an actor or you can have a singer. So they change you. So you get opportunity.

19:09Mo Gilligan: Yeah. And so it was like, it's just not working. And Mutzi was so big in Germany. they were a little bit scared of letting me rise a little bit as well because the audience would just turn against us they would just be like this is not fair she shouldn't she shouldn't get that and so I wanted the opportunity to just grow on my own and be with the show that I felt would just give me more opportunity to be myself not underneath my sister's name yeah yeah like you can just branch off and yeah have your own thing and do the worst and then she followed me because then you come to the uk but like when you kind of so here it's like i'm reading here and it says you rose to prominence in professional latin in the latin dance circuit winning titles as germany's champion making a name for yourself in european dancing um so when you start winning like things and titles and stuff you know because now you you know you've left south africa your sister's there and you like you saying you're like well i don't want to be on the the coattails of my sister i want to do my own thing so when you start like winning you know like these professional dance titles especially as a black woman in latin let's say latin dance few of us that must be such a flex because that's like yo that's i'm let's take it over your team you know like you need to recognize and i'm speaking the the the german as well so so how did that start to feel now that you start to like gain your own kind of success as well within that that community i think it didn't it didn't get it was just something that i think a lot of dancers we struggle with when you're in the moment you don't appreciate what you have so i the time i left south africa i was already 10 times South African champion.

21:07And so to get to Germany, whatever accolades or achievement or prizes I got were irrelevant if it wasn't the goal. So it didn't matter if I was vice European champion. I just wanted to be European champion. It didn't matter if I didn't qualify for the world championship because I wanted to be a world champ. So I didn't really reflect on any of that until older really until I stopped dancing and people were like that was amazing what you achieved because you're so focused on what's next and I was definitely I'm guilty of that that I don't really appreciate the moment and stop in time so a lot of those years I like the first black dancer to be on German television dancing didn't take in that moment the first black dancer to be on strictly and win it twice you know especially as a woman didn't take that

22:03Mo Gilligan: moment in now i'm going yeah i did it yeah but now it would have literally life would have looked completely different for me had i done that in the moment it must be it must be quite like pleasing like being in germany you have you like going from south africa you've got your thing you go to Germany you got your thing when you come to the UK you joined Strictly Come Dancing in 2015 yeah so when you join like because by then the show had been going on for quite a bit for quite for some time so did you feel like you were stepping into an arena where you're like it's like because you just said there where you was just like well yeah I didn't really take it in was it just like yeah man i'm doing this thing in the uk just to see how it bubbles in it yeah do you know what i mean as opposed to i feel like like now strictly is at a place where it's like it stands amongst saturday night television as like one of its own i would say probably on saturday it's probably one of the biggest television shows yeah in the country um but then i'm not saying at that time it wasn't but you had a bit more you had different shows do you know well i think like now you're like yeah it's just strictly on a Saturday or the news other than that and Saturday night takeaway you're like yeah man that's just the ones run the ting so like you know you joined the show 20 December sorry on December in 2015 yeah um what was your thought process going into it so it was so I do this thing in life where when I'm doing something and I've done it for a couple of years I feel like there's nothing left for me to achieve like I've achieved what I need to do I need to move on so South Africa was winning the championships moving on Germany I did what I wanted to do moving on again my family at this point had come around to me living in Germany and then I go oh I'm leaving Germany I'm going to the uk and they were like what no way no way we just got used to you being in germany we like germany for you what do you mean you're going to the uk no one in the family has ever lived there mutsy was upset my parents were upset and it was my husband who was really like look just give it a year just try it if you don't like it you can always come back to germany it's here we have the school we have the house we're settled we have our life and your husband's a dancer as yeah he's a dancer as well moving his hips wear on instagram

24:42yeah and so he was really supportive of of me just trying it out and i knew the uk because we were training and competing and in my mind london was croydon because that's the only place where we went oh really and and up north was just blackpool because everyone goes to blackpool

25:05Mo Gilligan: I know about Blackpool but what's going on in Croydon? In Croydon is where the top dancers train. Oh really? And there's a really big dance school there called Semli and they had a room and all the top teachers were there and like couples from all of America Russia Ukraine South Africa everywhere we trained there. So in my mind that's all right? Yeah. And over the years I kept thinking this country is nice. I'm seeing so many black people like and Like my shade of black, you know, and they're mixing and I'm seeing Caribbean, I'm seeing Nigerian, I'm seeing Ethiopian, Eritrea. So I'm just seeing everything, all the colors and I'm loving it.

25:49So why not give it a shot? So I moved my first year and I was like, I got this, you know, it is what it is, but I got this. I've done the previous Let's Dance Strictly in Germany. I was semi-final. How hard can this be? And my first year, week two, I was out.

26:10Mo Gilligan: Really? Out. Now you have to think the show is 15 weeks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I left Germany. It runs for long, man. Oh my God. I went to the jungle. I came out. It was still going. So it's like it is a really long time to just be there in the idea that you left Germany. You left comfort. You left a career that already is growing. in you came here and then you're out so to me i felt like a complete failure and my husband was like uh so do you want to come back and i was like yeah i'll give germany another shot went back to germany and then i got a celeb and i was like you know what let me see i feel like i've unfinished business in england one more series one more because i really liked it yeah and then i went back and I got an amazing celebrity Danny Mac and it's that year is really when everything just started to take off and just completely change for me and I love the show and I became one of the pros I became friends with them we started hanging out after the show having our bottles of wine um and and just really being a part of the uk and understanding the cultures learning different accents different types of black people different types of white people up north like just learning and i think the second year was just a lot more open-minded to the fact that just because you've achieved stuff in the past doesn't mean you know everything and you can do everything just calm down ot and take it all in yeah and things start to change from there because i've been to the set in l street and i think i went there for the final maybe and i had to read terms and conditions what happens in strictly stays i'd i'd i'd never been to the set before yeah um i didn't know how hard it was to get on the set yeah i didn't know it was like you have obviously like the audience people have to come and apply but I'm you know sometimes my mum will be like oh I'm more like you know people man you can probably and listen in our world there's some sense you can get on do you know what I mean if you work within television like for example us doing like the mask the mask dancer yeah some people will be like oh like can I bring my kids and their kids will come you know comedians actors and stuff they'll come to the show and watch and whatnot but then yeah like it was like yeah no like if you want to come on yeah you got to do something on the street i said i said what do you mean like what there's like yeah you got this come on and watch like with your mom like you need to do so they tricked you they're like you got to come on a come on a friday show oh yeah it takes two they said you got to come on that and then we might let you come with your mom i said yeah I didn't know it was like this man so when I come on I think I came I've never done It Takes Two but I read the terms and conditions and I'd seen the terms and conditions and I was like oh this is a big deal isn't it I didn't know it was such a big deal and I remember doing it and it's when I got there and I'm watching it and I was like wow because it's until you take it in and you see it like don't get me wrong like we now we we work in television and we know we're like okay you know you can tell what's a big production yeah they're like okay that's a big deal or okay there's they put a lot of money into that you know you're seeing like a little bit i'm seeing a lot of cameras there oh there's one at the top you know oh they're going outside yeah yeah that's that's that's a big production boy they're going outside all right fair enough that's big but um when you're on there as a program how much pressure is it as a dancer because i've you know eddie caddy who we both know who was on the show he was telling me how hard it was but how much is it like in terms of like your physical ability because i guess for you as a dancer it just you know it comes natural but then you're kind of having to teach someone who's never probably danced before in their life How much is that a strain?

30:28I think it's not so much a pressure problem. It's more an ambition problem, right? Because the blueprint of the show is a non-dancer learns from a professional how to dance. And so sometimes you get people who can dance already. And so life is fun. You know, I mean, the difficult part is trying to convince the audience that they've never done Latin and Borum and it's really, really tough for them. But like they can receive that. They've got their concentration span. They've got that ambition. They've got that vision. And you really that's really important. And on the other side, you get someone who's never danced before.

31:13Like, or you get the ones who goes, I never cheated. I never took one lesson in dancing. And all the pros are like, oh, my God, this is just a lot of work. This is a lot of work. I'm so happy for you, but this is a lot of work for me.

31:32The thing is, these two people who are competing for this thing called dance are competing in the same competition, and they have to be judged. So as a professional, you have to really, really, in your head, get this non-dancer to dance like someone who's got experience or create such a vibe around them that people love them so much for the fact that they can't dance and that they are non-dancers and then they really try. So what happens with the show is that people fall in love with the ones who are really trying and then they don't like the ones who can do it already. So you get two different types of ambition.

32:15You get, I really want to win with someone who's never danced before. And that's amazing. But this one is like, I really want to be remembered and create some iconic routines with you because I can. So it's different types of pressure. But either way, usually by week one, you're like, okay, I know who's winning. And I know why who's winning. But for me, my pressure was because the first year I was out, I hated that feeling. I was like I never I never wanted to be I know you dancers don't play around no

32:48Mo Gilligan: Eddie said like yeah man you got back straight all of that you can't you know Eddie was like yeah I'm moving my hips they're like nah bro none of that stuff yeah Eddie was so much fun because Eddie was like I didn't dance with him but he was he's got rhythm you know he's got that African rhythm which is so good but that African rhythm don't work for Borum he doesn't we're like no not for the Pasadena but the neck the neck I was like put shoulders down head And he's like, this is, I remember doing it with Malvin. And Malvin was like, this is, you're like a drill sergeant. This is hard. But because it's so foreign to us, to everything that we do.

33:25My pressure came from every year trying not to be the first out.

33:30Mo Gilligan: That was it. But it never really came from the show. You get to a point where the production is like, guys, calm down. Like, no one's getting fired. It's a good time. Because I always think with dancers, you guys just in your, just by nature, you are just competitive it's like whenever i've done um like soccer raid us as celebs are just going in and out it's a bit of football but the guys who have actually played football they're not playing around because listen this is we've done this for a living this is our thing yeah this is our thing and we know each other and that and as much as and it's almost like i guess it's like i can't really let for i guess for a sport where you're like i can't really let you have one up on me yeah do you know what i mean yeah so it must i don't know if it feels the same where you're like yeah like i kind of do take this serious because listen when i see them put up them flaps them them paddles i it's the pressure i'll be watching the tv like no i couldn't i couldn't hack it it's getting criticized in your face but i think we're we're used to it i started dancing when i was four and a lot of the professionals as well have been dancing their whole life it's what we do but that competitiveness I believe that it creates magic as well because unless you want to be better than your previous performance you won't grow you start to resent where you are it's it is the biggest show in television and everybody wants that job if you don't have that competitiveness I feel like like you're you're wasting an incredible opportunity so you have to be ambitious you have to be driven you have to be creative yeah but then with the judges i know a lot of the professionals say we we're listening but we're not taking it in you know because the goal is not what the judges think or the goal is what the celeb think that is the person that we're trying to help them with their confidence help them with the dancing that is not for me yeah i can't lie I see you like, were you like, yeah, people were like, okay, no.

35:31Mo Gilligan: I'm like, yeah, I could, I'm looking at your eyes, I'm like, do they care? Or do they not care? No, it's not even a care thing. I think it's, you get so, so you, you really care about the person that you've been partnered up with and you want to protect them. And so, like for me earlier on, I was like, look, they're going to have their opinion and everybody's entitled to their own opinion. Of course. I need you to just focus on the journey that we are on. They're comparing us with other people, but when we're not competing against other people, we are just trying to get you to dance. And in my Dululi world, everyone I dance with, I try to turn into a world champion in four days.

36:16And so you just tell them, you're going to get criticized, but you need to have a little bit of hard skin because it is tough, it is hard, and you will get told by Craig that you're boring but you go it happens not everybody's gonna like it and sometimes when they love it that also happens it's not a reflection on news it's reflection on the dance or the moment or how they're feeling and I guess it's also letting

36:36Mo Gilligan: people know is that it's just entertainment isn't it that's that's the thing it's just it's entertainment and it's hard I guess it's hard with anyone trying trying something that is at their comfort zone yeah and taking it really seriously who come from entertainment but it's like yeah but i actually i actually kind of want to be a bit good yeah but and it's also really exposing because you you're essentially getting to know someone and you're being cut or videoed in it for them for a lot of presenters who are used to speaking they're not used to like communicating without using words actors as well you know they're used to talking and being other people it's very exposing for them because now they have to be themselves and they have to discover who they are comedians like one thing i learned about comedians comedians always ready with the wit yeah but when you're dancing it's like this is hell man i do a two-hour show and i'm talking people love me here i'm dancing seven days a week and people hate me it's really really tough and it's really exposing and you have to have thick skin and i think the people who rise come out like shining stars and then the people who don't learn a huge lesson was it like being judged by a sister because it's that must be quite hard listen if you have sisters or brothers you get judged all the time anyway but having your sister have the pad will be like no six I'll be like yo watch in the whatsapp group watch I'm gonna tell mum what happened bro how dare you exactly all the time and my mum is also such a huge Strictly fan but not just like I watch the show and I enjoy it she is the I'm in the face group chat groups if you guys come for my daughters I'm coming for you she's that mom but if Motsi would be like five she's like what are you doing literally in the group and I wouldn't say anything I'd be like yeah mama she gave me five you know and I work so hard and then she goes these judges they're just jealous and my mom was like Motsi would be like you're talking about me and I would write her privately I'm like I guess you're not coming home for Christmas yeah because because I guess it's like there is a part of it you're like you leave what you leave yeah on television but family's family so there must be a bit where you're like yeah yeah cool cool cool let me ask you something what happened with that that score seven though let me just no do you know what happened I think it was really good actually for me and Mutsi to be on the same show because and this is not just my look at me my media trained answer for her she came onto the show and it was her first year and she had to prove that she was good enough so me being there had to elevate her because now people are watching us and they're thinking oh you're scoring her because she's your sister and for me I didn't have a choice but to be amazing so that if she gave me a score people wouldn't be like why would you give your sister a nine obviously it's because she's your sister Do you know what I mean?

39:43So it really put the pressure on both of us to just elevate ourselves beyond anything that we could imagine. Because it's not like Germany where she was first. I was here first. And also it's a bigger show with bigger focus. We had to be at peak performance every single time so that people wouldn't think it's unfair. I didn't want to put her in a position where she had to score me a score that I didn't deserve. and she didn't want she was like girl you better dance because yeah people are watching us so it brought the best out of both of us i have to admit i never pushed myself that much to a point where i won both years because it was like if you're bad it just looks bad on both of us and and we we didn't have that we couldn't relax and i think the first time she relaxed was when i wasn't on the

40:32Mo Gilligan: show anymore and i moved on she's like oh finally i don't have to judge my sister people aren't really gonna criticize my scot like now she can just enjoy the show and so can i now i can just sit at home and enjoy the show and be like oh shoulders aren't that yeah no and i'm like i would never yeah and then obviously that you you won as well so i could imagine obviously you know you've won things in the past yeah through dancing but you won with um you won here with kevin Fletcher and of course a fellow comic Bill Bailey so like what's it like winning because like I've seen it on tv and it when it starts like when it gets to the crunch of and the amount of viewers that the BBC gets is insane like you're talking like you know especially at a time when it when was it at 2019 when you won at 2019 you're talking like six seven million people watching so what does that feeling feel like because is it a feeling of okay we won it must be nicer that we won we're the best here amongst everybody but it must be quite nice endorsing because it's the public yeah doing that do you know i mean it's not down to the judges and i guess within your your field when you're doing it professionally it's like a judge it's a judge's vote you know do I look the part?

41:58Mo Gilligan: Did I turn the right way? Did I smile properly? But this is the public endorsing you. And how does that feel? Does it make you feel more at home? I think that is probably my favourite part that the final is determined by the audience. And the effort that you put in throughout the show is split between you and your celebrity. They're taking on a new skill that they've never done before, but they also have to be likeable, which is very sometimes difficult if people connect to you they connect if they don't then they don't and I think the fact that I don't necessarily think the best dancer always wins but the one that people connect with wins and I think that's the part that I love that people really connect with you they they pick up their phones they vote they call they make emails and then they vote online like they go on iPlayer they're invested they go on youtube and they go oh i want to watch that again you've connected with over 10 million people enough for them to say that you're our winner you're the one that brings us the most joy on saturday that that isn't that must be a nice feeling it's an incredible thing and also there's not at that point 15 weeks later there's not a lot of self-belief you know you don't know who's wedding we don't see the vote so in your mind it's not you it's just never you and why would it be you um and when the moment comes when they say your name you're just like wow this is this is unbelievable first but the realization later is like people really really enjoy just you your celeb they really connected to them i was really lucky with the people that i was with and they worked hard and it showed and it paid off so when you decide to when you decide to leave yeah you know which was only not so long ago it was what 20 20 20 20 22 yeah when you've done the mass because you was on the greatest dancer as well as a captain but in 2022 you was a pandas on the mass dancer we were speaking about earlier so when you leave a show that i guess can feel very you know like quite comfortable oh yeah yeah it's homes comfortable also people you know you know it's a bbc audience you're like you guys know me for this and they love you for that right so then how did it feel because we you know we speaking about how you know what you was like in terms of in your dressing room and feeling comfortable but then what was it like then joining a show on a panel where because i remember my first time of doing the master answer where i'm sitting there i'm like right you got davina there rita's over there joel and i'm the new kid and i'm sitting there like is anyone really gonna like me because i i can understand how exposing it is but also you're joining the show where you you your people know you as a dancer and i feel like what's always really nice about um strictly is we kind of have an image of the dancers in some ways like we don't know them but we feel like we know them but we just know them as a dancer we see them at a certain time of the year so it could be odd to even see them like oh summertime you're doing that thing so how was it for you because now you've got to show us your personality you know um how was that for you joining uh you know the the mask the mask dance i was i was so so excited You know I love that show.

45:32I mean, I was so... You was good, man. I know, I love it. Put a challenge in front of me. I'm like, I get so into it. Even like TikTok put a finger down challenge. I'm like in it, you know? And I felt like, again, a thing that I do. I had won twice at that point. I had been on the show for seven years. If you win, that is the goal. and I reached the goal twice and it was like oh now what's next and this amazing opportunity came to do the mass dancer and I was like I have to prove myself

46:13Mo Gilligan: it wasn't like do people like me it was like I have to earn my place here so I have to be good at everything anybody who walks out I'm like bite the walk I know it's you so I was like maybe even overcompensating to prove that I deserve to be on the panel and I talk you know I talk a lot I talk non-stop it was also that this is the first time people are going to hear me speak non-stop you could be like I'm not keen on her this is too much or you could be like I love how enthusiastic she is about the show but I that didn't even play my mind I just wanted to prove that I deserve to be there because it was my one chance dancers don't get that opportunity to go from shut up and just let your celeb shine to now we're actually putting you in that position you are the focal point and it doesn't happen to a lot of dancers no not at all like i'm so so lucky like i'm really really grateful for itv and i still say that to this day because at a moment where i thought i was gonna leave a lot of dancers disappear, especially as females, you know.

47:21And here's this channel going, come on, we really, really love you and we'll put you on every show under the sun, whatever you want. We want you. And I was like, yes, I feel like I was really, really lucky. And so I really wanted to prove myself. And so when I got there, I thought, I'm on Strictly. I know big shows. I'm used to big production. The Mars Dancer was huge. It was nuts. it was wild I was like this is the best thing ever even I look shy like in that set around you guys and I was like I'm doing a show let's do Jonathan Ross Davina Mo Joel and also the producers of Strictly were very supportive as well because I did both

48:05Mo Gilligan: oh yes yeah and they were like get Jonathan to do the show get Mo get Davina like I pitched all of you for the show and you all went oh no I had the call I was like you were like too much work I was like I don't know you know too much work weeks i don't know it's mad because i don't dance a little bit when i was in college i know you did study dance did you yeah so we we done bob fossey and all of that stuff you know i mean listen we've done all of that stuff man and then we've done some contemporary and so i know it's that thing was like oh come and you know come and do it you'll be great on it it's just five hours a day and they're like have you done dance before nah man listen you'll be alright the dancers will teach you everything you know I learnt this on when have you done bake off yet yes yeah so bake off it looks easier than what it is right oh my word there's so much pressure listen I've done bake off I was like listen I don't bake you know you don't bake it's gonna be fine listen we basically teach you how to do everything you know all the things are there Listen, we get in the tent.

49:15Mo Gilligan: I'm all vibes. What's going on? You all right? Good to see you, Noel. Yeah, all right. Paul Hollywood. And bakers, stop. I said, so what? What's going on here? If you watch my back here, there's a part where I had to cook these biscuits and make an apple jam. They're like, what would you like? I said, I like apples. I like apple juice. They're like, well, great. Make an apple jam. Yeah. With like biscuits and cream. I said, yeah, man. Listen, there's one part I'd never forget. I was sipping, I was sipping, what's it called again? I was sipping cider on the side, yeah? And they were filming. And it was like, yeah.

50:01Mo Gilligan: They said, Mo, how are you getting on? I said, yeah, man, great time, man. I said, my apple jam is simmering. It's jamming. I was chilling. They said, bakers, one hour. And the producer come up to me and she was like, yeah, if you can get going. Because I said, I thought someone was making it. He said, nah, listen up. I've never been more stressed. Listen, I'll never forget this, yeah? I need to speak about this one day. I'll never forget this. The next day, we stayed at a hotel that was close by. Yeah. I was online on YouTube looking at how to bake properly. I came in early they was like okay great we're going to make jam scones I was so serious OT I swear to you so I said listen whatever you think you're going to do to me on this strictly no be fine you don't need to learn it I said no no no I've had that before already I've learned my lesson you cannot trick me but nah I think what I loved about you on Dancer OT you was one you were like obviously you know dancing like you really do know it but like you was able to like really show your personality in a show that people just know you for dancing you know i mean you you blended in so quickly by the time it's like it finished in terms of like by the time it recorded i was like like you know when you you see someone you're like oh otis has got it man you know i mean well we all know in this field we're like that person's great you're good to go man so then you went on from that and then you've done uh dancing on ice as well yeah so then how is that because do you still have to put the the same ingredients in in terms of like showing your personality but it's on ice do you know what i mean what i really loved and i had this conversation with katie rocliffe yeah head of entertainment is i was i was very nervous about big up we love katie people's man katie loves dance she loves dance she used to be a dancer before and i was like I'd really love to present I'd really like to to be able to do both really and and I feel like I've known her now for years she slowly transitioned me into doing the things that I that I love to today right so I started with dancer which is something that is in my field the expert I named the steps and everything dancing on ice was was the same thing where even though it's not skating it's art it's partnership it's connection it's movement it's entertainment it's just an entertainment show right it's not that serious it's just there for people to sit on a sunday night and enjoy it um whether you like someone or not just get involved just get invested with it and so all of that i feel like katie was like i know i know you want to do this thing but let's do it slowly and I was like no just like slow down Oti we're just gonna transition you into it because nobody's ever just done the leap like that especially outside of the brand and so we took a couple of years to to get to a point where I go I really want to be a broadcaster and presenter but with the dance and on ice and and must dance I've learned so much about how to communicate with people how to i'm south african we're so brutally honest like we're too much so i'd head to like yeah i remember that time i tripped over never forget that boy you let me know you do

53:35let's let's listen i sensed myself on camera let me say that yeah off camera i'm a different person

53:42Mo Gilligan: i'm gonna tell you about yourself what did i see you it was the the thing the itv thing and I see you the ITV palooza palooza and I think they announced there was like and we got Mo doing the Brits woo then it basically in this palooza they announce all the new ITV shows so anyone who's ITV talent you go and like first row you got like Ant and Dec yes Harley everyone's there then first then first six rows yes you've got everyone there and I remember I was yeah they announced that I was doing the Brits and I was like proper nervous really i was so nervous i didn't look nervous i was so no not when i think when i'd done it i'd got i'd got time to kind of get used to it but no what nobody knew so i was holding on to this information i was nervous so when there's like yeah most in the i was like oh you know i'm telling everyone yeah oh i love that man chill chill chill chill so then i remember i think that's the first time i went to the palooza yeah and i was there and you just you just look for your people when it's done you're like who do i know it oh i see aj no it's my friends oh we He's saying Judy Love.

54:48Mo Gilligan: All right, cool. Oh, Ashley Banjo. Jordan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, Oti. And I walk to you. The trip. The trip. Never fall in front of me. The trip was tripling. Listen. You know what's funny, yeah? Why people be like, hey, are you okay? Oh, my God. I'm going to make sure that they move that speaker. And I tried to pass it off. and you were like, oh, you tripped. You tripped. I was like, yeah, yeah, you're right, Oti. You're right, yeah? Yes. But the trip, don't, don't book a flight because you might trip. I said, Oti, like, chill, chill, man. It was so fun. Oh, it was too much. And then I see you somewhere else.

55:40Mo Gilligan: Hi. I see you at another event and you said, oh, I was like, what's going on to you right i'm good don't trip again remember the trip i said oh love me man let me live oh man oh i'm sorry i just for me i love it sounds bad but i love when people fall especially in front of me oh my god it was the best it also is because i remember you were wearing like the suede suit it looked nice and you kept you kept doing this and I and then you made my night it made my night if anyone would have seen that trip you would have been like no really tripped you know but everybody went are you alright everyone's like are you okay and I was like cool man cool cool was it like the trip the trip I said allow me man allow me man you're like Oti calm down calm down I couldn't I couldn't let it go.

56:39Oh, man.

56:40Mo Gilligan: But speaking of a trip, you took a trip last year. That was so smooth. That was smooth, didn't it? You go to Australia. Oh, my God. Yes. And you go into the jungle. Yes. Now, I only know one other person that's gone into the jungle, which was Baba Tunde. He told me all about it. How was your experience in there? Because you seemed so... Happy. But you seemed so comfortable. I was. For everyone who keeps telling me that, yeah, like, Baba, to this day, he's like, bro, there's spiders in there. There's real bugs in there. There's snakes in there. So how was it for you, man, when you're in there? Honestly, one of the best experiences I've ever had, really.

57:18But I was with a really good group. And I think the year before, maybe, no, it wasn't Babatunda's year, but the year before was such a hard year. And everybody who went in my year was kind of conscious of each other's energy. And we went out to create good television. we were just ourselves and it was i love rice anyway i could literally eat rice and gravy all day so when you're like oh to make rice i'm like i'm happy i'm happy um and so i learned so much about myself there was one time i don't sleep really well and i think i talk about it it's not a thing and i just had the baby and there was one night where we literally slept non-stop for about 10, 11 hours The whole cast And we took two naps Like the rest that you get There's no phone There's no TV There's no timetable There's no time So the days just feel endless I told you I talk a lot But I'm getting to know people Because I didn't personally know everyone And so I'm taking the time to get to know these people and they're just being really open with me and I wasn't doing so many challenges in the beginning so I had just time to just sit with myself and and priority and think about my priorities think about what I'm going to change when I'm on the outside deal with a lot of trauma that I thought I didn't have and when you're in there you go man I need therapy you know you you have time you have to like really reflect and and your thought you know sometimes your thoughts can can can either go really positively or really negatively and for me my thoughts were really negative and it was just good to be around a group of people that i could just talk about my negative thoughts and i mean we had a priest we had you know reverend should call i'm black you know i'm gonna talk to the priest so i would speak to to the reverend and and we would talk about god we We would talk about thoughts.

59:29We would talk about my baby, my daughter. We would talk about just everything under the sun. But then you also had people with their own issues. And you go, you know, I was thinking last night you said this. Do you think this would have changed? And we ended up as a group getting over so many hurdles together that it didn't feel anymore like we were on a reality show making television. it just genuinely felt like we were there to just fix our own childhood traumas yeah that must feel

1:00:01Mo Gilligan: nice with being in a place as well so confined even though it is on television but with people that are in a similar world to you or are in worlds that you're like wow i only know you as this person yeah i've only ever seen on online but like you're so relatable yeah i didn't know that yeah that must be quite refreshing it was nice also because with everything that we've spoken about today everything people have seen about me was hair done makeup done like oh it's just only talking about dance and this was the first time I feel like people just got to know who I was outside of we just like it when she's quiet and she entertains us and she makes us happy on a Saturday night it was just genuinely getting to know the person and I hadn't had that opportunity before because I didn't grow up here.

1:00:51So it was like a speed course into people getting to know me. And I had Melvin in there who was like my brother and he held me down and I held him down. And like today he's literally like one of my best friends and we continue to talk. But you need that. You need that when you feel a bit shitted and you feel tired and you feel like I can't do this anymore because there are spiders in the toilet. You do have to change actually the toilet where everybody goes and then you have to fetch the water. You do have to sleep with mosquitoes, frogs and spiders. Like it is hard.

1:01:25Mo Gilligan: That's mad. It's hard. But the gain, the reward after that is so much better. Like even Ant & Dec. Ant & Dec are amazing. We all know them, but we only see them for an hour. So they don't even become like the focal part of the show. It's just that time spent with people and learning skills of how to get through hard time that for me I'm like it was one of the best experiences best shows ever what was it like when your husband came in oh because I felt like that was like you know on the show everyone a lot of people have like their moment whether it was they're facing their fears but I felt like you know you you know seeing your husband after however long just felt like everyone could relate to that yeah you know I mean it was really because I left my daughter at that point I don't even remember she was just over a year and i'd never been away from her that long and i was it was it gets to a point where you go okay like i think i'm done now like like how hard how strong how long can i be strong for and they told us otis there's something wrong with your mic go please go check it and so they took me down a route and i'm like why can't you fix your mic this is itv why are we having my problems like I'm in the jungle you know I hate walking along why are you doing this to me and when I saw his face it just broke me and it made me like like you just need that comfort like my husband is my comfort he's my protector he's like my love and when I saw this person that I love so much that I was really thirsty for I mean I just broke down I cried and I just held him and then it it was so emotional because he even brought me our daughter's clothes to smell and like like it was just like the whole thing was like the most amazing feeling and then you know when you see you live with your partner you live with them every day you go hi hi you go to work i'll see you soon but like now since then saying hi to him and bye just means something completely different yeah because we had that three months three weeks apart it it now really feels special when we reconnect and with my daughter really because I feel like oh I missed three weeks that's a lot so I wanted to catch up and just the connection that we have now the three of us is is amazing it really brought it brought a lot to us I guess it's that classic phrase where like when absence makes the heart go fonder do you know what I mean where you realize you're like ah as much as I get to do this television thing and you know sometimes we can think oh it's a long day six yeah 12 and that's a long day I miss you but then you're like oh wow I've not seen you in two weeks and you might call them FaceTime them but it's not the same as being home and you're like oh I can be myself yeah oh I can relax I'm not on do you know what I mean and he was really like my motivation as well I mean when we were in there there was a game that I actually won right that meant that for two weeks you get to stay longer and he was just like babe go now this is what we call second gear like you've done well now we push now when it gets hard and everybody feels like just get me out of here and like i can't do this anymore this is where we as a family we push the second gear and we go yeah and he's like now set fire to the like set fire to these bitches and i was like yeah so and so for me when i was in there the hard times it was the letter it was the clothes it was him just saying you've got this go for it that really motivated me to to love it but to give it my all every single time and talking about second gear third gear or fourth gear like you're you're on tour right in june 2025 yeah how does that feel going back on the road because it's not easy getting back on the road you know i mean it's like listen i know boy it's not easy man but i guess it must feel like when you get to see the people that come and support you that that are phoning for strictly or for the jungle or you know like buying your new book that's coming out as well um how does that like it must be nice seeing the the faces of the the people that make your dream a reality you know 100 and i feel like in this country you really can't do anything without people by your side without people to enjoy your energy to enjoy your art and i'm really lucky that i get to do all these amazing things but also stay true to me and that's dancing and that is being in a theater seeing people entertaining them telling stories and seeing how dance can make you feel can make you want to dance it can make you cry it can make you frustrated it can you can learn a few things about yourself and when they were like do you you want to tour again I went what is are there people who want to see me tour they were like yes do you know who you are yeah and so I felt really lucky that I was able to tour but also that I'm still able to dance after having my daughter's mom you know new new challenges and now I'm gonna do it soon I'm very nervous but I'm I'm excited because I have the opportunity and I think every opportunity is an opportunity like even with the book where they were like ot do you want to write a book and because i've written four children's books i can't do children's book and they're like no for adults do you want to do that because you'll be working through your holiday and i was like oh my god i wanted for the opportunity but but it's a lot and i and i've learned so much again it's like another another side to me that i get to learn but whether it's dancing or writing the book it's something that I'm still very passionate about which is the dancing and and just discovering other sides again not a lot of people get to do the things that I've been able to do yeah and so I'm really grateful and I'm taking the opportunity as like I'm in a lucky position and I'm gonna do them while I still can you know I like about you OTA yeah you're such a you're like a proper big optimist and i feel like don't get wrong you have to be but like i think sometimes we can get a lot of opportunities and we're on to the next one we're on to the next one and sometimes we can do things that are big and we can do things you like you look at your career of like winning dance awards and becoming you know someone in germany to then the UK doing a book, doing a tour.

1:08:10Mo Gilligan: I see the brand deals as well. Come on, do it a bit. But no, you're such an optimist in terms of like, I feel like your future has no end. Do you know what I mean? In terms of what you're able to do and what you're able to achieve. And that brings me to my last question. In terms of your end, like in a short space of time, you've done so much. So do you start to like map out your future in some ways? And I know like your husband as well, your husband's a dancer so you're both within that same scene you're a household name do you know what I mean you're you're you're you're a brand yourself and your sister you're you're like a brand name which is quite rare in television you know it's not it's not every day that someone's brother and sister or sisters and they like each other how do you start to kind of map out you know the part of OT that is you know you start bringing them all together whether it's the brands or being becoming an author or television presenter and an author I know you've got your own dance company as well do you map that out now or do you or is it a thing of like you're saying where you're like well on to the next one i'm gonna put everything in it i'm gonna enjoy the moment and see where it where it takes me or are you in a place now where you're like yeah like i know i'm not lucky but how do you start to maneuver that now more for the later part of your career that's such a good question a lot of it is luck i'm i'm lucky that or let me say i appreciate that people connected with me that I was able to to be a part of this incredible show that launched me to do other things but the reason why I say I feel really lucky is because I can still see people still doing the same things who want to launch but don't have that opportunity or it's not the right time for them or it's just a no which is really difficult that they have to face that reality Whereas I have all these doors that are open for me.

1:10:03And so right now mapping my future is, and I remember talking to Alicia Dixon about this because I was like, what's next? And she's like, you do it again. Whatever you're doing, you do it again. You have your child and you focus on providing for her and doing whatever it is that you need to do to make sure that she's okay. but whatever you've achieved in your career and you feel like I'm content you're like no girl we don't get comfortable we do it again and we keep pushing so it's it's being open to choices is throwing myself in the deeper I do big brother and I put my opinions out there and I'm like people like it or they hate me but I still do it because I love the show but it's it's being open to every single opportunity.

1:10:52And what comes, comes. And what doesn't, then it wasn't meant for me. But at the moment, a lot is coming. I'm overwhelmed, but I love it. I want to be like you, Mo. Me? That's it. I want to be in America, touring. I want when people open their TikToks, it's me giving other people a chance to tell their jokes. I want to be on TikTok seeing some jokes. And on Instagram, be like, does this guy live in his car? does he live my life i want my life to be like you no my life is very normal it's not it's not no it is i swear to you you cannot say your life is normal no do you know what it is right you are

1:11:29Mo Gilligan: hit in two countries no but like i think with my life i seek out normality more than i ever have because i love the things that bring me back down to earth like i'm i'm allowed to do some some really cool stuff and there are times where i'm like rod that is crazy what's happening right now I really do see kind of normality because like I like just like I love spending time with my family I think more now than ever it's like you're saying like now when you go home my home is at my safe place I can be myself yesterday I fell down the stairs I wish I would have seen it listen the reality of me falling down the stairs it really puts life into perspective where I was like I could have died yeah all of this could end in one second I could have died right now but I do like I seek out those those parts of normality within our lives that you know one day we you know we're just you know with our family doing something very very normal taking the rubbish out xyz and then the next you you can be on a red carpet somewhere and you're like okay cool but also knowing when I go to those red carpet things I don't know what it's like for you now but I'm at a place where I'm like I just want to get some nuggets now and go home now you know I I love going to them, but it gets to a point where I'm like, I can't stop.

1:12:49Mo Gilligan: That's because you're famous, famous, famous now. You're like Oscar, Grammy, like you're Emmy famous now. No, no, no, I'm not there. I'm NTA, kind of Brit famous now. I thought I'd get my, what's it called? My Met Gala invite this week, but it didn't come in here. Not yet. One more talk. I was ready to wear some long shirts. And a suit. that's it with that head with a monocle that's what i was one thing i've always loved is like if i ever go to an event see someone like yourself there melvin and everyone else it's just that feeling where you're like yeah i get to do this but it's so nice when you get to to mix it with people you're like genuine you get into a room and you're like you know we look at each other like hey man you're in black ones here you know but no ot it's been a pleasure man to have you on the pod Thank you.

1:13:41Mo Gilligan: I genuinely mean that, man. Genuinely, I've never laughed so hard on the pub. No, thank you so much for coming on the pub, man. It's been good to, like, proper see you, though, man. Because, obviously, we always see each other in passing, innit? No, also because you're in LA. Do you know what I mean? No, I'm not in LA no more, man. I'm back out there soon, though.

1:14:02Mo Gilligan: I'm back out there June, July, innit? Yeah, come on. But, no, it's been good to connect with you, man. because like i'm so so proud of like what you do and also it's just like some people like forget it's like who you're representing man there's young there's young black women out there and i know the black women out there watching and you're really representing them in a way that's your authentic self do you know i mean you give your opinions on a big brother you can be like that kind of mother on the jungle where you know you are cooking people rice but also like you you are sent you're a very good dancer do you know i'm saying i see some of the small tiktok videos and stuff.

1:14:36Mo Gilligan: Oh, yeah. And I see you with like Ashley and Jordan and them lot. And I'm like, I can't. Listen, please don't make me do none of these. Hey, man, we've got an idea. So I do this and I'm like, 18, I'm not the one. I can't. Melvin will do it. I don't know if I'm the one. What's the one I see you do the other day? You hated Thomas. You done the other day with the lady. She's in the chat. I said, I did clashing. I said, I did. I said please don't don't hey man I've got an idea quick because people want me to do this you know hey I go this way listen now I can't do it I can't man but no thank you for joining the pod man thank you so much no thank you for having me hey what's up thank you so much for listening to the podcast today now a lot goes in to making each episode I know you hear my voice but there's a team behind the scenes who helped make it and if you did enjoy it I'd really really appreciate if you could show the love to them by giving us five stars.

1:15:33Mo Gilligan: And if you also have the time, please leave us a review. It's always appreciated and we love reading the comments. And of course, we want to keep making it better. Thank you for listening and have a great day. Peace.