Paloma Faith on Imposter Syndrome, Brits Wins & Surviving the Music Industry

0:00Mo Gilligan: Hey, what's up people? My name is Mo Gilligan and this is my podcast beginning, middle and end. Now, our guest this week is a singer, songwriter and all-round creative force known for her big voice, bold style and soulful pop sound from chart-topping hits to acting roles and her time on The Voice UK. Honest, theatrical and never afraid to speak out. She is definitely one of the most distinctive artists in British music. Please, welcome to the podcast, the amazing, the fabulous, Hello My Faith. How have you been? You alright though?

0:35Paloma Faith: I think so. I'm just, I mean obviously I'm quite heavily pregnant, I'm very preoccupied with that. I feel like I'm just verging on feeling compromised for the first time. I keep losing my grip on things. I've got this thing called Carpool Tunnel and I dropped the dinner on the floor yesterday. I thought that I I thought I was gripping it but obviously I wasn't

1:00Mo Gilligan: the last time I seen was at your house in Hackney you're from Hackney right because I remember you telling me you grew up in Stoke Newington

1:06Paloma Faith: Stoke Newington and Dalston because you said you're like

1:09Mo Gilligan: I know you're really close to your mum you were telling me as well and you were saying to me like what I was surprised about is how you were very much like

1:17Paloma Faith: yeah everyone knows me around here do the school run and boom boom boom boom boom

1:21Mo Gilligan: also being in the public eye as well but you seem like when I was at your house you seem like a cool vibey mum do you know what I mean

1:27Paloma Faith: I like to think of myself as a cool vibey mum no you're a cool vibey mum

1:31Mo Gilligan: I feel like you're one of those mums where it's just like it's just like

1:34Paloma Faith: I'm in there doing finger painting yes making stuff out of cereal boxes

1:40Mo Gilligan: yeah I feel like it's one of those mums where it's just like listen I don't mind you smoking but just not downstairs alright yeah I'm not sure

1:46Paloma Faith: about that with a nine year old and a five year old not yet

1:50Mo Gilligan: no but you know what I mean though innit

1:53Paloma Faith: Yeah, I'd rather it was in front of me. We can talk about anything. Age two with a cigarette.

2:02Mo Gilligan: Let me tell you about nursery. No, yeah.

2:05Paloma Faith: No joke as well when I was growing up. We're starting with that Miss Rachel, eh?

2:08Mo Gilligan: She's all right, isn't she?

2:10Paloma Faith: No joke. I remember going to someone's house when I was, I think it was like my first, my friend was working in the Safeways in Barbican and I went to pick her up and she was like, let me just stop by my friend's house. I went to this housing estate and this lady was sitting there and she's sitting on her sofa, I'm not even exaggerating, and she's like, she's like, Terry! She goes, spark that up for me. And Terry was literally a three-and-a-half-year-old child. This is tragic. But he went up to the oven, he did the ignition, he put the gas hob on and he lent in, sparked up a fag for his mum, three and a half years old and brought in, where you go she went, good boy, eh?

2:59Paloma Faith: I was like stunned. I didn't know what to say because I was like 18, 19 but if it was now...

3:06Mo Gilligan: Put that on Jeremy Kyle! We need that on Jeremy! Jeremy! Talk to the youths! But like, you've always been quite creative. You went to Central St. Martin's College of Art and Design?

3:20Paloma Faith: Yeah, just after my degree to do a Masters.

3:24Mo Gilligan: What is it that made you... Because you've done your Masters, but what was the vibe and the shift in going there?

3:31Paloma Faith: Well, I always was really good at art in school and I went to dance college for my first degree because I thought in my head, youth lends itself to physicality.

3:43Mo Gilligan: Then I thought,

3:44Paloma Faith: because I'm 18, I'll go to do dance training. But then I spent my whole time just pining for art school. And then I just went straight to art school to do like a one year master's. And I got all that stuff off my chest. I did something in time based art. So sort of directing, designing for theatre.

4:04Mo Gilligan: So you've always been quite a creative person because even in your house, it's like it's very, it's very vibrant, very colourful. it feels like you know like your personality is in your house does that make sense

4:17Paloma Faith: it's my identity

4:18Mo Gilligan: yeah but I see that in terms of the pictures and the wallpaper and the vibe and stuff do you know what I mean so like where does performing and singing growing up in East London

4:26Paloma Faith: as well you get teased for that like she's off key she's so off key

4:36Paloma Faith: what for singing though not so I didn't sing back then it was always just like just art Yeah, she's cool, but she's so off-key.

4:45Mo Gilligan: Yeah, that's cool, but she's drawing, you know, bro. What were you drawing back then?

4:51Paloma Faith: Loads of stuff. Just everything. I mean, my projects were quite advanced, I think. For A-level, I did a whole piece on sex workers.

5:03Mo Gilligan: That's what I mean. And I was 17. We're meeting them with empathy. All the way, I'm like, what are you drawing? you're like everything but the first piece was about sex workers no it's because we went on this

5:15Paloma Faith: art project with college um i was 17 and everyone was sort of you know like young and silly and it was in paris and we went to red light district and there's this big sign for a peep show and i thought that i had seen a peep show before because madonna's music video had the screens going up and down and i was like it's that so everyone was like we're gonna go picho it's five euros each if we all chip in there was six or seven of us from college and we went and um i was like i don't want to do it and because i was a bit prudish and they were like no come on come on and so we went into this place and this lady took us up in the lift she started sort of talking to me in different languages because I spoke different languages and they didn't, the other kids What languages did you speak?

6:09Paloma Faith: I was speaking to her like Italian and Spanish a bit of French, like a mixture Where did you learn this from? Well I'm half Spanish but then once you know one Latin language you can kind of muddle through So yeah, so we were up and looking back in hindsight at that point I didn't realise but she was sort of flirting with me Anyway, the woman who took us up in the lift led us into this room and there was like six or seven of us 17 year olds, boys and girls and she was the woman who was going to be the peep show but it wasn't a peep show, it was just us in a room and she started taking her clothes off and touching herself with a selection of vibrators and dildos.

6:53Paloma Faith: Anyway, she asked if she wanted to join in. I was shocked I was 17 and then Join in? Yeah, and everyone ran out of the room like all the other kids and me being me like i've sort of stayed the same person was really worried about her feelings like the shame of all these kids going so i was like you can stop but i won't run out like i'm sorry they did that and she was like okay and then i started asking her lots of questions like you know what's that she was like are you were you here to explore all your sexuality with your friends or whatever and i was like no i actually didn't really want to come but they did and now they've run out and I'm sorry that they degraded you or whatever and I was like why did you do this job and she started saying oh I'm a single parent and I can't fit like can't make enough money from other work and pick my kids up the hours are right and you know I need to I've got two kids support but she told me like all this stuff about her and she started like saying like she started welling up because it was so vulnerable it's almost it was actually sort of conceptually more intimate than just somebody putting a tilt up inside themselves and I had this conversation with her and I was like I'm so sorry that people disrespected you or whatever and she was like you're a good person you're gonna go far and then I left and I gave her hug and it was almost like she was my mother like she was really maternal she was like really kind and then i left and then i did this whole art project about her and her field and looked at it with empathy oh wow that was me and all that when i got out everyone's like oh my god oh my god what happened that i was like you look you look out of order man and they're just still there all just like oh my god what did you do did you lips her did you lips her i was just like no i didn't i

8:50Mo Gilligan: sat there and talked to her we went to the natural history museum boy that is not a school trip

9:04Mo Gilligan: so how did singing come into your life then and performing well performing from day really i

9:10Paloma Faith: I started ballet classes when I was four. And it was because my mum's dyspraxic. She didn't want me to be awkward on the dance floor like she was. Singing was just because I just used to sing along. My favourite singer was Erykah Badu in the 90s. And I sort of used to kind of try and like copy her a bit.

9:31Mo Gilligan: Why don't you call on Tyrone? Yeah.

9:34Paloma Faith: I was just working in bars and I was singing along like... and then someone heard me and said, would you like to write some music together? And I just sort of fell into it. I was like, yeah, okay. And so it started like that, but I never thought it would be anything.

9:56Mo Gilligan: Sorry, you can't just sing that note and just go back into a normal conversation.

10:04Paloma Faith: Why not? Open your mind, Mo.

10:08Mo Gilligan: It was so seamless.

10:13Mo Gilligan: and then yeah you know like when early on in your career when you would sing would you like shock rooms when people would hear you sing no i wasn't very good i was rubbish

10:25Paloma Faith: and then i took some singing lessons from someone who was like you're you're actually better than you think you are and i and i was just like no because all the people that i held in high esteem was so much better than me i was like i i'm not the singer i'd want to be and i think when i kind of stopped wanting to be someone else and just accepting who i was was when i started to take it seriously but i but i actually got a record deal and booked a tour before i even thought i mean i thought it was a bit of a joke because you were signed to epic records yeah um sony i've been on sony since the beginning and different guises but um yeah i just thought i after my first tour i started losing my voice and i was a bit like

11:12Mo Gilligan: i better do some lessons i bet if i'm going to take this seriously yeah yeah yeah i was a bit

11:20Paloma Faith: like oh i'm a bit of a chancer i still feel like um i won the lottery like a bit of an imposter really yeah it's just sort of thing how did i end up here when people are like on comments on instagram and stuff they're like yeah she's just trying to save her finished done for career like oh trying to make herself relevant again whatever i'm like babes i've been irrelevant my whole career what are you talking about this is fine yeah i'm doing fine i've never actually had anything that feels like a job well i have because i did like tell i was 27 28 i worked in retail and bars and all that that felt like retail do you know one day i seen you in in in top shop

12:07Mo Gilligan: in office street i walked past you really but i wasn't working i was well you was paloma faith

12:13Paloma Faith: from oh just shopping yeah but i remember walking past i was like that's paloma faith

12:19Mo Gilligan: you know like when Topshop I think it was at the time where like people would like hang outside like you get models that hang outside to get scouted and stuff

12:27Paloma Faith: and you were standing there just like

12:29Mo Gilligan: waiting

12:30Paloma Faith: looking like just doing your best Zee Land

12:34Mo Gilligan: is there any French models here

12:38Paloma Faith: I'm just casually this is where I always stand what are you talking about

12:41Mo Gilligan: is there any French models here no you miss out today

12:48Mo Gilligan: So you get signed and you, so you, do you like, would you say you suffer with that kind of imposter syndrome then? Yeah, but I think most people who have, most creative people do, I think.

12:59Paloma Faith: Just like, oh God, when are they going to work it out?

13:02Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

13:03Paloma Faith: When am I going to be discovered? I think the ones who don't suffer from that are usually really untalented and terrible at what they do. And cause a lot of problems and have a very large rider. what do you have on your rider what do you have nothing really just like water hummus and carrots yeah my best friend's mum that she's from liverpool and apparently she came back well she came backstage to one of my gigs and she called her daughter and she was like the veg katherine the veg they had on for her she had every raw vegetable possible it was so impressive I was like the gig was good as well was it mum

13:56because I feel like

13:57Mo Gilligan: when I got into entertainment I didn't even know what a rider was I was like one of my mates who's my tour manager Jovan he said what do you want for your rider and I'm like what's that what is that

14:08Paloma Faith: I actually had a moment in my career where I asked to look at my ride and there was stuff on it I wasn't asking for that wasn't making it into my dressing room. And there was this brand of wine called Oyster Bay. And for years, apparently, it was on there. Crates and crates of this wine. I don't really drink. I was like, who's drinking this? Does a brand like Oyster Bay? Anyway, I found out my tour manager, the production side, was an alcoholic and was ordering it and just smuggling it into his room anyway. where we had to get rid of him.

14:45Mo Gilligan: Is it? Yeah, we were like,

14:47Paloma Faith: how many years have you been drinking me out of Oyster Bay?

14:51Mo Gilligan: Oh my God. And it's not even very nice.

14:54Paloma Faith: It's just really high percentage alcohol. I don't know if it's expensive because I don't know.

15:00Mo Gilligan: Oyster Bay.

15:02Paloma Faith: Oyster Bay. Now, every time I see a bottle of it, I just quake.

15:07Mo Gilligan: When you go in odd bins. I've never been in odd bins.

15:10Paloma Faith: I won't go there. people look at your rider and judge who you are yeah yeah yeah like what do these people think

15:18Mo Gilligan: i'm like i feel like amongst musicians that and anyone listening that the rider is basically what you have in your dressing room in terms of like what i don't know a certain water you might want or drink or sweets or anything which i come to found that find out once i started touring that I'm paying for this. So as much as I might sit there and be like, I'd love a bottle of Jack Daniels. I don't drink myself, but if I say I want a bottle of Jack Daniels or whatever, I am paying for this.

15:48Paloma Faith: Unless it's a private gig.

15:50Mo Gilligan: Yes. Then they put it in and you can up the ante.

15:53Paloma Faith: You can have the private gig rider and then your rider.

15:56Mo Gilligan: What's the private gig? I've never done a private gig. I've done like a corporate gig.

15:59Paloma Faith: Yeah, corporate, same.

16:01Mo Gilligan: Oh, okay, I see. Yeah. Have you ever heard through the grapevine of other musicians that have got crazy riders?

16:07Paloma Faith: only ones that i read in just 17 when i was a kid like madonna's everything has to be white

16:18Mo Gilligan: yeah do you think it's like a folklore thing with musicians though i do you think it's like a the more exaggerated it is the more like you hear it through the grapevine most majority of the time

16:28Paloma Faith: i think it's the teams around these people that are making it so yeah and they're probably walking and then going, oh, wow, this is amazing. They've done it. And then they're like, she likes it. Let's just put it on again. But I think if you actually ask them, most artists would be like, oh, that's cool. Not to cover the walls in sheets. I don't mind.

16:50Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah. Because I've gone to like, you know, music festivals and I remember once going to Lovebox and the backstage area, they were like, yeah. Because Frank Ocean was going to perform. And I was like, yeah, we're closing it all off. Frank wants no one backstage and you're like mate I've got a pass

17:06Paloma Faith: did he really ask that as well? but that's what I always think

17:08Mo Gilligan: that's why I wanted to ask the musician do you think that some of these musicians are asking for this or it's their management?

17:13Paloma Faith: I really doubt it I was at Lovebox once and they said Grace Jones had ordered like a hundred oysters backstage

17:23Mo Gilligan: that's so much oysters man it's a lot of oysters

17:27Paloma Faith: and if he just only takes one bad one and Grace's show's not happening yeah she's in that port-a-cabin

17:44Mo Gilligan: it's risky so what's it like when you sign with a big you know you sign a record deal you put a tour on your first album is do you want the truth or something beautiful what's that what's that feeling like i signed a really shit deal my first record deal was terrible why what because nobody else was offering i just thought i sort of thought it wouldn't last

18:07Paloma Faith: i didn't really think i mean they signed me for five albums and for context of anyone listening

18:14Mo Gilligan: what is it like signing for five albums is that is that a bad deal well you have to make five

18:20Paloma Faith: albums which takes quite a long time if you do one every two to three years so there's a time span on it yeah so you're looking at like whatever they've offered you financially to live on for the rest of your life and i i i signed like for five albums for like between like 20 and 60 grand an album if you think about if i did one every two years two four six eight ten like it wasn't in It wasn't a huge salary. So I didn't even buy a house until I came out of that deal because I didn't have enough money to...

18:57Mo Gilligan: I was renting and people would walk...

19:01Paloma Faith: I was quite sort of famous already and people would walk in to my rental flat because it had a shared entrance with someone else and take pictures of my stuff and then post it online and be like, this is Playman Faith's flat, like her bedroom. And I'd sleep in this double bed with all my clothes around it because there's no space for anything. Yeah. Like, basically sleeping in the wardrobe. And, yeah, and I was getting, like,£20 an album. But then I got out of it, and then I was like, I now would like to own some security. That was the most amazing feeling.

19:40Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah.

19:41Paloma Faith: And I also think, as well, I attribute... Even though sometimes I think, oh, I got ripped off, sometimes I think I wonder whether I would have had the career that I've had if I hadn't had that motivation to keep going to get to the point where I could make some money out of it because sometimes you hear these deals that people do from my peers or whatever artists that got signed for like two million pounds or whatever and then they just disappear and you're like well maybe they'd lost motivation because they just thought I've got a house yeah yeah they got everything this is really hard whereas like i was like well i've not got any stability i have to just keep plugging away and then but i do also think it's work ethic but yeah if you're like i was raised by my mum on her own and she was so such a workaholic that that was my example so i sort of copied it and

20:38Mo Gilligan: And I guess as well, it's like if you have that when it's your passion as an artist or a performer of anything of like, well, I have this of where it's taken to come from this. And now I'm here. I can only just keep working.

20:53Paloma Faith: Yeah, it's like your driving lessons, isn't it? You fail your test. You've got to keep going.

20:58Mo Gilligan: Great analogy.

20:59Paloma Faith: You can't keep failing.

21:03Mo Gilligan: because it's true because i remember when i done my driving lessons and we had to do reverse round

21:08Paloma Faith: corner oh my god you up on the curb oh that is that one used to haunt me and you couldn't put

21:15Mo Gilligan: a miniskirt on to pass i remember i just got that i was sitting there like yeah you couldn't but i remember doing that and you sit there and you're like what is the point of this reversing around the corner i'm never gonna do it and i remember doing a test and my instructor was like don't worry this will never come up and i had this one instructor and i tried to like do the whole i'm gonna book this lesson somewhere a little bit just out of london i've done it in sutton we drove all the way there and then i was like cool here we go i'm gonna definitely pass quiet area and then they're like okay great uh quick maneuver just something simple if you can reverse around the corner i said oh man have you ever reversed around the corner in life sin no i don't think i ever have but now it's different because i've got cameras on my you know reverse cameras so when i reverse i can see everything don't even need to look backwards but back then

22:14Paloma Faith: you're like i had a really good driving instructor i hated it he had like loads of gold rings he used to lean out if it was sunny blaring garage is it yeah and we'd just be like

22:29Paloma Faith: in the car. I don't think he did any teaching whatsoever.

22:33Mo Gilligan: Yeah, he's going where you want to go. Actually, if you drop me off to baby mum's, that'd be great. So your second album, they'd be the number two on the album charts and it earned you two Brit Award nominations. What was it like when you started getting that recognition as an artist, that kind of industry recognition? Because I feel like we all get to points in our career where you're doing the thing that you love to do and you earn a bit of money from it and you're like, oh, this is nice. I'm earning a living of doing what I get to do. But then you start getting recognition, whether it's from your peers or like Brit Awards.

23:08Mo Gilligan: How was that for you?

23:11Paloma Faith: I just never thought I'd win. And I thought, oh, sweet, they're acknowledging me. I just thought I was nice of them. But I never thought I'd get one. I think it wasn't until I got one. I was so shocked that night. like when I actually won the award I just was so overwhelmed I couldn't believe it I genuinely didn't think that I would win so I didn't prepare anything I talked for ages I mean like some people just when they've not prepared something do the sensible thing go thanks and sit down but I think i took off a half an hour show everybody just was on about the underdogs and all sorts and then forgot even to thank the most important people as well but like is that important though that

23:59Mo Gilligan: you thank the people who make the albums and stuff because some of those people like to be

24:03Paloma Faith: in the background i think all the background people secretly really wish that they were acknowledged at the front yeah because you everyone looks at you and you get all the accolade but really people work people work so hard like every behind every successful person there are people just really plugging away yeah and like it's really important to me to acknowledge that and i think when i did my speech that was what i wanted to get was like not just the people behind me but also i was i was thinking like the the waiters that night the people were going to clean afterwards i was thanking everyone and then the next day it was quite sweet because um i took my mum to spain for like a free like a long weekend and we were in the um in the airport and went through security and security guys putting all the stuff in the trays just went thank you i said what what for and he goes giving us your award last night the underdogs and i was like oh my god you watched he was like yeah a lot of us talked about it today and we feel seen thank you i was like i was just like but it's true there's so many people you know we've worked in retail i've done other jobs as well that like don't go acknowledged so yes to me that's probably the most important aspect of winning an award would be to highlight the work that goes on around you rather than you getting it because I get the privilege of every night walking on the stage and hearing the claps and seeing the seats full and all of that and I feel like I've kind of very much full of that feeling of like wow there's a reason to keep going I think a lot of the people who work behind the scenes don't really ever get that they're like is this worth it especially if you're just going out and everyone's like she's amazing and then you're like well i've been doing this for 16 years yeah i wrote the bloody song

26:16Paloma Faith: it's kind of more for them i feel

26:22Mo Gilligan: does it matter in terms of like because having hosted the brits

26:27Paloma Faith: it's it'll be so drop come on you know plug there you know twice let them know what was going on in 2022 2023 um but no you know what was interesting i think for me

26:45Mo Gilligan: is everyone kept saying to me oh you know like how are you nervous and stuff and i was like yeah but my job is just to just pull the strings of this i'm not sitting there on a table with a record label and a bunch of other artists knowing that you know when the camera's on because i've you know haven't when you go on the floor and you see the tables and there is the you know the record execs and it's you know you're sitting next to someone who's also nominated and i'm like well I've just got to just host the thing after this I go back but my arena is stand-up comedy yeah and in comedy there is no real award show like comedy's not based on the funniest person goes to and the funniest man of the year telling the knock knock joke it's mo and the winner that that doesn't happen and don't get me wrong there have been comedy awards in the past and I did with one of them which was and it was mad because I've done the classic I wasn't there to pick up the award did you do the video?

27:48Mo Gilligan: I've done the video I was like oh guys I'd love to be there but I'm currently in LA right now

27:52Paloma Faith: oh yeah I just want to like

27:55Mo Gilligan: this means a lot

27:55Paloma Faith: someone rubbing oil on your chest just at the moment just you know completely losing sight of what everyone's going through in their day to day life which is my general material

28:08Mo Gilligan: no I I really appreciate the award. But it was, because it's a comedy award as well. So it was like, oh, this is, I really, like, again, it was like a massive achievement and being acknowledged for, you know, the award was huge. Like my mum was there, my sister was there. I think whenever those moments happen, it's really for my mum and my family, where it's like, I want, you know, my mum picked up the award on my behalf and stuff. But also, yeah, it's that classic thing where you've got to pretend like you didn't know, but then you're on camera and you're like, hey, just... Sorry, guys, I can't be there tonight.

28:44Paloma Faith: I just want to say, like, this here?

28:49Mo Gilligan: Wow.

28:49Paloma Faith: It means so much to me I didn't get on the plane. What are you reading with that?

28:54Mo Gilligan: Hi, this is pre-recorded. I kind of knew about it two weeks ago. Knew I wouldn't be there, but you guys are there right now and I'm not. But what does it mean when you're in the room, though? I'd be really intrigued to know what that was like.

29:06Paloma Faith: I felt shocked and emotional and I was surprised at my reaction because I spent my whole life being not a very nice person, laughing at people for crying when they got an award. And then what did I do? I cried.

29:18Mo Gilligan: You won an award and you cried. I was like, oh, my God, you're a dickhead.

29:23Paloma Faith: But I have ways to sort of counter my overwhelmedness by justifying it. So my two ways to kind of get over it was, number one, going for a long weekend with my mum, because my mum doesn't really give two shits about things like that. So that kept me grounded. And then the second one was just convincing myself someone high up at Sony had paid for me to win it. Because I wasn't doing very well. so that's how I got through it and then I just started worrying about when the next check was coming calling management what we can do I've got to keep this career going does that happen? yes that's me that's a day and a day

30:18Mo Gilligan: no no I'm talking about like the record

30:19Paloma Faith: oh I don't know well is the Illuminati real?

30:24Mo Gilligan: I've never been asked to join them there's no black people in there boy I don't know why you're asking me boy I've never been asked

30:32Paloma Faith: my sister was so into it and then when I started getting a bit famous she was a bit like

30:37Mo Gilligan: tell me then

30:40Paloma Faith: and they called you

30:50Mo Gilligan: I had one of those it's weird when I hosted the Brits a second time I was wearing a red suit and someone said to me

30:57Paloma Faith: is like um red coats no do you know they said they said um they said can i ask you something

31:03Mo Gilligan: i said yeah what's up man um because this is at a time when i just finished doing a show in la as well it's like i've seen a picture of you online and have you have you been compromised i was like what i'm thinking like what do you mean like hacked or social media or something i was like so i don't know she goes no because like i think you might be compromised some people get compromised i don't know and i was like what are you talking about and it's like no because the brits he was wearing this red suit and i was like i just wore that because i wore it one because we've done a suit change so i had to go from a purple suit so i was like well i can't wear black because it's two things so i was like let me wear red and then i'll put like a nice uh black silk shirt basically in it and it was like yeah because you wore like a red well like a red red suit symbolic so you might be compromised are you i was like what me from south london from pickham i said come on man chill out man drink your drink man

31:59Paloma Faith: what's going on here man I just if anyone's watching from the Illuminati I just want to say the answer is yes

32:09Mo Gilligan: it's no from me boy Christ each and every time the Lord Saviour Jesus Christ not me you can you can drink the juice I'm alright you know

32:26Mo Gilligan: but um what what's the after parties like because that is i feel like as much as there is the occasion and there's the show what is the because i know i didn't know the after party was such a

32:39Paloma Faith: big thing it is it's such a big thing and you've got like also you've got to be sort of loyal to your label and go to your label one but then there's always a better one i had i had the better one one yeah did you who was at the better one everyone was at my one was it warner's no my one was my own one your own party yeah so i didn't know the after party thing was a thing where's my invite that was 2022 i don't think you were just anyway babes but you wouldn't have come though

33:09Mo Gilligan: you didn't know me them times like i would have come no i don't believe you know you'd be like

33:13Paloma Faith: Who's that? I would have. Who's that?

33:15Mo Gilligan: I'm not going to that. I didn't know the after party thing was a thing. And I think the first year, we went out somewhere in central London and everyone was there. And then the second year, I had my own after party because I was like, this is the thing. And it was phenomenal. Like, can everyone...

33:32Paloma Faith: Are you like, I threw this? I can't believe it!

33:35Mo Gilligan: I think what people liked about it is it wasn't bougie. because a lot of times you can go to these things and it's very much a yeah this is cool but we might go to, there's a private one happening yeah have you got the VIP to the VIP

33:50Paloma Faith: to the VIP to the VIP and then you're like no I wasn't asked for that one

33:55Mo Gilligan: and it gets a little bit like yeah okay this isn't, because people do that they get to one and like this isn't the one like I've been to one and I'm like this is cool my last one was not the one you had your own one?

34:05Paloma Faith: no not my own, just the one I went, the choice I made oh did you go to the label one yeah but the label ones are like i get it though in it

34:12Mo Gilligan: because i think is it you've got a guy say yeah you have to yeah yeah you've got to put an appearance yeah my one do you know how i knew my one was good because then after straight after party was on the sunday i flew to la terrible jet lag practically woke up kind of monday because i've been traveling on the sunday wake up i've got all these missed calls

34:36Paloma Faith: missed messages oh how come I didn't get invite oh man I'm glad I didn't come to your party it

34:41Mo Gilligan: looked so good I'm glad in retrospect oh man it was so good I was I was in the middle body popping I'm trying to clash people anyway anyway let's move on from me so don't like you just want to stay on that oh no listen that party do you know what it was though that party I genuinely felt like a superstar because it was my party if that makes sense and comedians we don't do these things That's not our thing to do parties and events and be the center of attention away from the stage. So to do the whole like, oh man, I heard you've got a thing like, yeah. And I was like, yeah, shut your van, you'll get the details.

35:21Mo Gilligan: Yeah, it was, yeah, very, very, very, very, very vibey. You're one of those musicians where I felt like you could stop doing music today and go into something else. and I feel like you've got one of those personalities where away from music, you know, because you've done acting and, you know, you've been a judge on television where, but you're also really funny. Like, and I remember saying this to you and I was just like, why don't you ever do something like a stand-up?

35:49Paloma Faith: I just think it's so much easier to be funny if no one's expecting you to be funny. But you're like a very... I don't envy you.

35:57Mo Gilligan: But you're a personality though, I think, because you get some people who are musicians. It's just all the trauma.

36:04Paloma Faith: No, but honestly, I mean it. It's true. It's just so much trauma. I don't even mean it.

36:07Mo Gilligan: I think when I first met you, we met at that event in Central and it was so funny because that's the first time we had ever met.

36:14Paloma Faith: Yeah.

36:14Mo Gilligan: And I was like, what's up, how are you?

36:16Paloma Faith: You're all right?

36:16Mo Gilligan: And he was just like, I don't know why I'm doing it. He's just here. And I was like, yeah, me too, man. But you're very much a personality in a sense of, do you find it like hard in a sense where like you know like when you walk into a room you you light up a room and you light up a space and do you find it also hard where you know you as a musician is almost like yes like i'm

36:41Paloma Faith: a musician and i have a bubbly personality but is it sometimes like a juxtaposition where it's just

36:48Mo Gilligan: like yeah we want you to go on the tv show and we want that paloma faith we want you to be bubbly and say this joke and do that thing whereas you're like yeah like i'll do that because i'm gonna be myself does that make sense um what what are you asking if it's a burden to be this charismatic

37:06Paloma Faith: god

37:12Mo Gilligan: yeah it's tough i mean you know what it is yeah because i feel like sometimes you can i can i've met musicians and they're like yeah like with my personality people like my personality but then my music they're like two separate entities if that makes sense yeah i do i mean it just is what it is i

37:31Paloma Faith: mean i think for the beginning of my career i was i i was struggling i tried to you know i'd go on tv and i'd sing and nothing would happen and then the first time that i ever did a show it was a panel show was never mind the buzzcocks and i didn't sing and my album went to number one literally overnight and it was like oh people are buying into like this person that they think put a lot of the comments are always i'd love to go for a part with her i'd love to go for nando's diploma or whatever and it's like um i don't try and overanalyze like because i just think if it is what it is i'm just grateful that i've got a job like i've got a career and that sometimes i get into spaces we all do where we think oh it's probably the end so you know like maybe i've like the the lucky road that i was on has come to an abrupt end and that's it and then something will happen where i'll just like go on tv and it will really have a great impact or i'll put an album out and it'll and i'll sell out a tour or whatever and i just feel so lucky that i don't really care what it is i think for some people it's one thing i mean there are people who write comments like shut up and sing so those ones obviously love the music

39:08Mo Gilligan: how do you find that with online like negativity how do you take to that stuff sometimes i feel like you've come from an era where social media wasn't at the forefront of you know of who you are as a personality where you didn't have an instagram where someone can

39:23Paloma Faith: leave a comment do you know i mean yeah well maybe for a bit but i did i was the beginning of it because it was my space when I started.

39:31Mo Gilligan: So it

39:32Paloma Faith: was like a big launch of all of that. People's opinions. I try to take it with a pinch of salt but it depends on

39:41Mo Gilligan: the day doesn't it? Sometimes you're like oh no

39:45Paloma Faith: this person's confirming my deepest doubts about myself. Like all I see here is a little girl that didn't get any love from her father. yes

40:02Paloma Faith: then you're like shit you said the truth when they're like she's just da da da and they completely misunderstand you you think oh whatever

40:14Mo Gilligan: what made you write a book why did you title it MILF

40:17Paloma Faith: well it was a play on the word motherhood identity love and fuckery

40:22Mo Gilligan: was what I

40:24Paloma Faith: actually called it but I talk about that word because there's a lot of people who used to be like, oh, you're a bit of a milf, as if it was like, us as men have given you the badge of being fuckable despite having children. Well, thank you very much. We are so grateful.

40:45Paloma Faith: So I decided to turn it on its head and just be like, I don't really like it. Most women let themselves go entirely. You haven't. You know, it's just awful. So it's a bit of a joke on that.

41:05Mo Gilligan: What was it like in terms of delving into a different space, though, as opposed to...

41:10Paloma Faith: I wouldn't say I'm a great writer. I think I wrote how I think. It's more like anecdotal. And it was a joy to do. And it was at a time where I couldn't do loads because I was not in a great place. Well, my go-to thing's always been, like, when I'm in trauma, I just overwork. So I broke up with my two existing children's dad and I just went into, like, hyper-productive mode. I wrote a book, I wrote an album, I, like, learnt how to be a single parent, like, all these things all at the same time. I just went into hyperdrive and it was a consequence of that.

41:55Mo Gilligan: What do you look forward to in terms of like when you're away from the camera and the limelight? Because when we done your pod, you was like, yeah, I can do the school run. Like, yeah, all the mums know me and everything and stuff. And like when you when you are away from the limelight, the microphone and the cameras, what's the thing that keeps you ticking? and wanting, because I know you're a mum and you're about to have another child, got your third child on the way. But what is the thing that keeps you ticking? Because I feel like your spirit is so pure in the sense of, I can see why people would say, I want to have a drink with that person or a Nando's or I've got this coming.

42:40Mo Gilligan: And you know what? Yeah, it's true. But also I'm really blessed to be in this. So I don't really care. Like, what is the thing that keeps you ticking away from whatever we see online.

42:52Paloma Faith: I just really love, I like people a lot. I've really loved, I've always been like that. Like, you know, you said I've always been a creative person. My sort of endeavours of all, when I look at them all, like the book, the acting, the music, everything is sort of fuelled by this universal subject, which is about understanding what makes us like, what are the universal qualities that we all go through as human beings in spite of our circumstances having like been brought up in sort of one kind of way and then found myself like hobnobbing with people who've probably had money their entire lives and been able to sit in a room and think oh what is it that makes us all the same I'd say it's that like I'm just interested in chatting to people and understanding them and I'm also somebody who's quite sometimes management have to separate me from people because if someone tells me their life story I sort of start trying to figure out how I can help fix everything I'm like oh management are like get Paloma away from that person in the corridor that's telling because otherwise she'll have set up a charity for them by the next day and she's quite busy like they're just like so I'm sort of like I don't know I'm just I don't I think we're all the same and not to quote like try and you know

44:27Mo Gilligan: plagiarise John Legend but we are just

44:29Paloma Faith: all ordinary people and I do I believe that I think there's no difference between I think success is not always talent it's usually how to first of all recognize an opportunity and see it as such and then feel have the confidence to seize the opportunity most people that I know who um haven't maybe got success have regrets where they go I remember this time this man asked me if you know I wanted to go meet his office but I just lost I bottled it or you know or whatever they say like oh I used to do a bit of this and that but then I didn't go for it because I felt it wasn't safe and I and I know that happens because my mum's like super lights up a room charismatic and all that but like her thing from me like her from her perspective my whole career has been like stop now get a safe job the whole time she's like just stop now please get on a pay get your pension sorted you know like she's like you need to train to be a teacher and she still thinks that like she's like it's just too up and down how do you cope like here today gone tomorrow you know we worked in safety my generation that's what we went for and then we're just all going yeah I'm going to invest my own money in my business or whatever and they're like how much yeah you could have bloody put a down payment on a rental flat for that you're like well I hope it will accumulate more and they might have two that's just greed that's my mum's attitude I think that that generation especially I think it's just also

46:17Mo Gilligan: parents because my mum's the same when I said I told my mum I'm gonna buy a house she's like why I said well why not because no one in my family ever bought a house or owned any property and I said well mum I need to buy a house like I can't rent she goes yeah you can rent you know you can't cancel a house you lived in was rented and I was like I hear that mum but we didn't own it do you know what I mean before you leave you've got such an illustrious career of

46:45Paloma Faith: thank you for using that word oh yeah I pop out the big words every now and then listen that's what I'm saying

46:50Mo Gilligan: you don't get to host the Brits for nothing do you know i mean paloma the vocab that's what i'm saying i'm available 2027 let me know probably not i'm on tour um like in terms of your career because it's like you're in a space where you have a really successful podcast you know you're writing a book and you're very creative and you're a musician that you know can sell out tours and albums but you're also a personality which is very very rare how do you see like your career as you as you get older do you know what i mean and your your your kids might say hey i want to get into this too and what advice could you give me you sit here and you say you're very lucky i personally don't believe that i feel like you're very blessed and you you're a very good people person like when i came to your house you was like yeah come sit down chill take your shoes off but it's very rare that you meet people that still retain that energy once they've been in this space in this industry because you can lose that joy and you can lose that that people pleasure that you can get from people and just become very like yeah yeah cool cool cool I've got this happening but you still seem like you care the long and short is how do you still look at keeping that spark and the energy that you have for your career and just for your later life?

48:11Paloma Faith: I don't sort of do it consciously. I just feel so blessed, so lucky. And I was raised by a woman who was like, literally force feeding me with gratitude on a daily basis. Like every night before bed, she'd be like, what was your favourite bit of the day? You know, like I'd have to acknowledge small pleasures, like as a child, she'd be like, we're so lucky. She'd make me watch the news. and back in them days it was like much more graphic I think than it is now. She'd be like, sit here, watch what's going on in this country and then tell me that you're not going to finish your plate. You know, it was like that.

48:52So I was like really raised to be like that and I still feel like that.

48:59Paloma Faith: But I also feel like maybe my wealth isn't financial. And I think that feeling, that kind of like what makes me a success, what makes me feel wealthy isn't to do with like material things or whatever. It's just to do with how much love and support I have around me. And like I've got so many amazing friends who I admire so much that I've known since before I did this job. And they're all just so incredible. And I just, and most of them, with the exception of maybe one or two people, aren't in the public eye. And I haven't met them. I met them before from school or whatever. And I just think, wow, these people are so incredible.

49:48Paloma Faith: And I just feel really lucky. And I feel lucky to have kids and be a mother. and I also have this privileged situation now where I've got to a point in my career where I do have long-term security because I live in a house that I own, which means no one can ever turf me onto the street.

50:13Paloma Faith: And I've got, for the first time ever in my life today, I feel like I'll always be able to make ends meet. I could, you know, my mum's always said, you should just do the pizza express jazz tour you know like she says i'm like i could always just do that though do you know what i mean it would be okay

50:37Mo Gilligan: because i didn't know that was the thing you know i know they do it in some of the restaurants yeah

50:41Paloma Faith: but you know i i could always just do a little residency at dalston vortex jazz It would be okay. I just, yeah, I feel like I'm not worried anymore. And I feel like I've been worried for years. So that's it.

51:02Mo Gilligan: Oh, blimey, it's been such a pleasure to have you on the pod, you know.

51:06Paloma Faith: Thank you. I know you're heavily pregnant, so I don't want to take up too much of your time. Come to birth, bring the camera crew. I'm inviting everyone. Third time round.

51:17Mo Gilligan: before we leave we always have an audience question um that i put my story and the question that we have for you today is a very fun question and that question is who is the most famous person

51:31Paloma Faith: you have in your phone book depends like i i always say i think samuel l jackson is because because he's the most famous, wonderful person that will respond to me. Really? Yeah, so like came on my podcast. I wouldn't do that to him because I don't want to abuse the contact.

51:51Mo Gilligan: Who is this motherfucker?

51:53Paloma Faith: Yeah. But he did come on my podcast because I was like, oh no, this is lame. Me asking you for something and I don't know what I've done for you. How did you get his number? Well, I did some, I met him at a BAFTAs thing and then he was like, well, I think you're great. And his assistant was with him. And then they asked me to do a charity job for him because he was doing loads of stuff to do with, I think, prostate or testicular cancer, like male cancers. And I was like, cool, anything for you, just to be in your presence. And then on that night, he, like, grabbed my arm and said, I owe you, and when I say that, I'm a man of my word, which is what I'm like.

52:33Paloma Faith: So, you know, you were saying about the podcast, Because if I say I'm going to do something, I always do it. And he's like that. So then he read something on one of my albums. And then years later, I was like, I've got this podcast. And he said to me, when I asked him to do it, he said, I've never done a podcast before. And I probably never will again. But as you know, I struggle saying, no, do you, Paloma. And he just came to my house and bloody came to Hackney and stroked the neighbor's cat in the garden, who still doesn't know to this day that their cat was stroked by him. and so he's my most famous contact I do have other contacts that of people that are quite famous but they don't always reply who are they where is Sam will

53:15Mo Gilligan: let us know Edem out on the podcast right now to bloodclare but sometimes they do

53:21Paloma Faith: and then you're like oh maybe they were busy yeah but I think Sam's like the Sam's like the most honourable, true as I said before, I think the most talented people are usually the most down to earth and nicest.

53:38Mo Gilligan: The ones

53:39Paloma Faith: who buy into all the flashiness and stuff, usually they don't last.

53:45Mo Gilligan: And he doesn't. They're the ones that don't do the podcast.

53:49Paloma Faith: Yeah!

53:51Mo Gilligan: Death to all of them! Thank you so, so much.

53:55Paloma Faith: Thank you for having me. and this has been your beginning middle and end hey what's up thank you so much for listening to

54:01Mo Gilligan: the podcast today now a lot goes in to making each episode i know you hear my voice but there's a team behind the scenes who helped make it and if you did enjoy it i'd really really appreciate if you could show the love to them by giving us five stars and if you also have the time please leave us a review it's always appreciated and we love reading the comments and of course we want to keep making it better thank you for listening and have a great day peace