Singer/ Songwriter Leigh-Anne Pinnock

0:00Mo Gilligan: Yes, what's good people? My name is Mo Gilligan and right now you're tuned into my podcast, The Beginning, Middle and End. Now my guest this week has gone from being in the first girl band to win the X Factor to stepping into her very own successful solo career, all while advocating for racial equality and empowerment through her very own documentary. entry she speaks about being an independent artist a mother and touring the world please welcome to the podcast the hugely successful leanne pinnock thanks for coming on the pod i appreciate that man thanks for having me i know you don't do a lot of these things as well do you know i love podcasts though do you yeah do you like doing them i do i don't know i feel like i like i want people to get to know me more you know and i think this is just the perfect place isn't it yeah yeah you just kind of forget that this is all here as well it's conversation yeah man I think it's the most relaxed but you're so your beginner's interesting because you're from I don't know why I just I thought you was from South London you know really I just did you know but you're from Wickham you grew up in Wickham yeah we were just speaking about it before Buckingham shit yeah your mum's a teacher yes and your dad's a champion boxer he was wait wait wait when I was like baby baby like not that's your dad I'm trying to hype him up he's gonna love that yeah so he used to box he used a box i feel like he might have got one title uh but i was i even born when he was doing it i feel like 99 when i went actually when i was born i think he kind of stopped um but he still has this one video that he would make us watch all the time of him knocking someone out and like bless him yeah yeah he was good he was good but now he just he's a um mechanic he's got his own business which he's had for like since he was like 20 or something yeah yeah yeah so yeah but for the people that know let's just see he's a champion boxer innit just for dad innit just for dad yeah go on then and you're mixed because I know you you go to Jamaica a lot yeah I always see that sometimes on your socials and stuff go to Jamaica a lot so you're but you're you're half you're half Bajan half Jamaican half Jamaican yes my mum's dad's Bajan and her mum is white dad's dad's jamaican mum's wife both of us race what's your favorite place do you know what both are beautiful obviously yeah but jamaica obviously we've been going there like every year since i was born so i just have that attachment yeah and also my beijing granddad lived in uh london so we didn't have to go yes yeah yeah yeah i feel like i need to go barbados and see more of my family and like get more in touch with that side because it's part of me as well and i do love barbados it's It's beautiful.

2:48It's beautiful.

2:49Mo Gilligan: You go to Oystens, the fish fry on Friday. No, it's... It's really nice, man. It's so relaxed, yeah. Slightly westernised, do you know what I think? Yeah, if you go there during... I went... Did I go Christmas? Just after Christmas, New Year's. And I remember just... I think what day was it? It must have been like... I think it was like a week. Like, first week of January. And yeah, it was just tons of tourists. And then when that Saturday hit... Because everyone went back to work, especially because there's tons of Americans. Yes. And they were putting on their Canada Goose jackets. And I'm like, right, he's not going, man.

3:26Mo Gilligan: And they were just like, yeah, we're going to go. We've got to work. We've got to work. We've got to go. So I was like, because you forget how close it is to the States as well. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So for them, it's like the equivalent of us going to like an Ibiza or Menorca or something like that. Do you know what I mean? Lovely, lovely place, though. Yeah, no, it is beautiful. Yeah. You got mixed. so you're you're you because the reason why I ask because I know your music is inspired by of course like growing up probably like listening to hip hop and R &B Garage you've done that melody of Craig David on my show that was so good which went so viral like we never released that song like we saw man why don't we jump on that more yeah but then also I know that you like you like in terms of your sound you know you you've got like a sound of like Afro beats you've got sound of like I'm a piano and reggae And you've always mentioned in interviews how much that has inspired your sound as well.

4:20Mo Gilligan: So how did, with your heritage, growing up in somewhere like High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, because it's like you're saying, you have the mixed now where you have greenery, you have parks and stuff. But I guess growing up, it's not that kind of... It's not London, is it? You know that? Yeah. Sometimes, if you're not... Because I remember with my cousins, I've got a lot of family in Cardiff. And they'd come down for Notting Hill Carnival. Yeah. And they thought London was always like that. And I'm like, this happens once a year. Oh, yeah. Twice. Twice a year. But it's not like this. You've got different pockets.

4:59Mo Gilligan: Yeah. But they were still like, you know, my granddad's Jamaican. They would still be almost closer to their Jamaican side, if that makes sense. Right, okay, yeah. So how did that start to shape your perception when you was quite young? Ooh. I mean yeah so growing up in High Wycombe I think like we just couldn't wait to leave you know like there wasn't much going on I think it's a small town like we wanted to be in London like that's where everything was happening that's where like any opportunity was in London so like I mean the closest I could get there like when I was I guess in secondary school was like jumping on the train from High Wycombe going to Marlebone and then going like Oxford Street shopping like for us that was a day out in London like um so like we would live for those moments and and then like as I got a bit older like I would I was working in pizza at the time like I was saving up all my tips to um to drive to London to then go to the studio like I managed to make a couple of contacts and like I was writing and even being in London writing and like just with different producers like was just the best feeling um but yeah there was always like a desire to want to leave High Wycombe to like to be where it was really happening and and even like something as simple as getting like hair black hair stuff like there was so much more in London like there wasn't really nothing really in High Wycombe so yeah just like little things um but then like also quite grateful for like my my class in my year was quite multicultural so like I felt like I was represented in that sense and then I feel like it wasn't really until like I got into the group where I was like traveling everywhere around this big whole world and actually started to realize oh I am very different um yeah so yeah I mean grateful for my upbringing for sure but yeah I definitely feel like like there was a want to for something more you know like than what High Wycombe was giving at the time.

7:01Mo Gilligan: Yeah, and I could imagine because when I go back to thinking of my cousins that didn't live in London, that would come to London, like you're saying, things like, you know, black hair shops, like a loudness that you get in some parts of London that you don't get everywhere else. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And even like in terms of you as a musician, because you was uploading music really early in your career, right? MySpace. MySpace days. Yeah. Yeah. literally so was you going to the studio was you just like did you have like a small mic set up at that time i was going to the studio yeah there was a couple of studios in high wickham as well and a couple of people i met because you're what you were 14 at this time right i would have been about i reckon 15 15 16 when i was like putting music on my space yeah i was so in it like yeah anyone i met i'm gonna be a singer i'm gonna be a singer i had so much confidence in that sense about me like I just knew what I wanted and it just didn't matter what anyone said and I just went for it yeah but yeah it's just really random that like one day I just decided to audition for the x-factor and like I what was I doing I was so I was working in Pete's Hurt and then I was also working at my mum's school I was on a gap year and then also traveling up to London when I could to to write or whatever and I was just thinking to myself I just want to sing like I was just so determined to make it happen for myself and I didn't really want to go to uni and I didn't get into the uni that I wanted as well like this is a sign what was the uni you wanted to get into I wanted Leeds oh yeah didn't get in big uni as well I know I know and I was gutted about that so then I just got my laptop one day sat on my mum's sofa and then just applied the rest is history which is crazy so you mad you really like from a young age really followed your destiny because i know you have sisters as well right yeah yeah yeah um so like growing up in a house with sisters was you the entertaining sister as such do you know what i mean yeah i was i'm the youngest of three but i've got so i've got two older sisters but because i'm the youngest i always say like the oldest gets the you know you gotta look after the house you get the remote control for example yeah but you know the youngest it was like okay no one listens to me so what's my thing gonna be i've got to be funny and because i was spoiled in a sense because i was the only boy okay and the youngest um so what was your role within like your your sisters i was the baby you the baby as well baby yeah baby and the baby in it it is well you get away with a lot and then also yeah it's like hmm do you feel like you get no rights like like you know like for example like i don't know if you had this where it's like cool we're gonna order something what should we order and I'd be like, let's get Chinese.

9:52Mo Gilligan: People look at you like, you got Chinese money. You know about Chinese, man. Shut up, man. And then my sister said, I think we're going to get Chinese. I just said that, man. Yes. No, for sure. You're not taking that quite as seriously as you should. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I think there was also an element of them, you are quite protected as the baby. So like a lot of drama that happened in my family, I only really found out within the last five years. Yeah. How mad is that? Yeah. I'm like shit did that really happen did that really happen he was going to weddings just having the time of your life yes there was a big family disagreement like yes every family party there was always something massive would happen and I'd just be there like yeah yeah yeah of course crazy yeah but I was definitely yeah so I was a baby super shy my middle sister loved performing as well so she was a dancer and she was like she was like my driving force like always believed in me but like she would always be like you need to give 110 % like you can do it better like really sort of pushed me um yeah so I feel like she I owe a lot of the confidence I have now I think to her she was like that one that instilled a lot of that into me so you went on your mom's laptop but you sat down and you decided to put an application in at the time for yeah for x-factor um how old was you at that time was you 15 or was it like so when i auditioned i must have been 18 18 yeah so you you put in this application form now i was very naive in thinking that watching the show and how they film it you see everyone there and stuff and you're like oh okay cool you you know and there there is people that are queuing that you know there's thousands of people queuing up and you're like oh really Like, I forget.

11:47Mo Gilligan: Now I know how entertainment works. Now I know it's like, okay, cool. Like, those 10, like, Simon didn't watch Simon and Talisa. I can't remember who was on that panel. Was it Gary Barlow? Kelly Rowland. Kelly Rowland. I'm sitting there like, bro, I didn't watch 10 ,000 before. So funny, isn't it? Oh, gosh. Yeah, no. so going into that experience at 18 knowing that i feel like you you wanted to follow your destiny in a sense of like i want to sing yeah um but what was that experience like because we've got to see it all unfold you know um i don't know if you ever watch it back now do you ever watch it back no no i have done i have done before but like not recently but yeah i've obviously it's been like how 15 years so yeah i've watched it a couple times but um god it's crazy it's such a different girl to what this is now but i think there's a part of it that's like so endearing because we got to see it unfold in a program that was cut down to an hour whereas for you as it was a real lived experience of yeah going there as essentially a solo artist and coming out you know part of one of the biggest female groups in the world do you know what i mean mad um what was that experience like at 18 once you've you know you get chosen and you with you know three other girls who you're like oh like you've kind of come here for the same thing um what was that early experience like did it feel like i could imagine it must have been really new but did it feel like oh like we're just experiencing this all together yeah no it was actually fate to be fair so at boot camp yes we'll go all went in solo artists and then boot camp i shared a room with jesse and then jade shared a room with no and then jesse met jade along the way and then jesse was put into a group with perry and everyone kind of bonded and then obviously we all got called up to go on the stage um to make this group and like we looked at each other and we were like how this was always meant to be what how can something be so perfect and fate because jesse had got on really well perry and i was in a group with jade and it was like this is just mad and you know one of those things where you just feel like it always had to happen and in that exact way yeah it was literally like that so and even though we all went as solo artists we were like we want to be in a group like it just felt so right mad yeah when when you're in that environment because it's being documented on television it's probably was there ever times where you kind of blinked and you're like i started this at 18 and you're like hold on wait i'm i'm 25 now because you just turned 34 right yes happy playing thanks um but is there times where there's a snapshot in your life where that happened at 18 and you know people say in your 20s is like the year of like oh you know i get to find myself I go traveling universities and you know at a time when you're 18 you know your age mates are going to uni they're going to let's say Leeds for example and you're in you know a group and you're doing what you wanted to do was there ever times where you're just like this is happening so fast and I'm missing out on experiences that my other friends are doing and I'm not so interesting because well yeah actually there was a lot of things that I'm I feel like I missed out on with my friends and i remember there was one friend um that i couldn't really be there for and like she'd gone through a really traumatic time and i just remember feeling so shit as a friend like but i just wasn't able to be there and like in any capacity and i just felt i felt awful but literally from that moment of winning we were gone up until lockdown and that was like 2020 or something it was constant we were everywhere yeah and never saw really friends and family but i mean lucky enough to have such an amazing network like whenever i did see my friends it was like like i still got the same friends from school yeah and whenever i did see them it was like it was normal and yeah but definitely felt like and you're right it just goes like that and now looking back and i'm like that was like most of my life well no most of my life or like it's such a massive chunk of my life your 20s i feel like is that one of the most crucial parts yes yeah exactly yeah so it is wild but i mean how lucky am i that i did actually get to live that dream and i'm still living it now you know and yeah like i'm sat here and it's oh wild and it's only like coming out of it where i'm looking at it and what we did damn we achieved so much like we genuinely did it so yeah it's like an amazing feeling and i was saying as well like the other day like some a fan came up to me and like oh like i grew up on your music i grew up listening to you and i'm just like what we're in that stage now like getting to like legacy stage mad and that's that's incredible at a time where like where you are now as a solo artist being able to look back and you're like oh my god we've done all of that and now i get this exciting new chapter as myself you know i've got to do stuff where it's a shared experience and i think it's such a an amazing thing to experience with other people yeah the only comparisons i have is when i used to do like some of the small videos and stuff uh michael dapper would do videos as well so he'd be the only person i can call and be like hey bro i got invited to this adidas event yeah me too man and he's like yeah they're gonna give me free clothes yeah me too and it is hard because it's not i couldn't tell my other friends this yeah it was sharing the the excitement of someone that got it and understood it yes you know um which i i guess at that time for you it must have been you know and also seeing the world as well what was that because i know you again you guys are big worldwide and you know you're doing concerts and festivals everywhere like what what some of your like all around asia like yeah we toured the whole of america and that was with demin Novato so like 2012 or something like oh I was so young and I got to see the whole of America like I literally felt in a movie you know like stopping at like um gas stations and like coming off a tour of us um I've been to Florida okay um when I was younger like um Universal Studios and all that sort of stuff but yeah the first time like really yeah I guess going anywhere else so oh my gosh it was just unreal it was like probably one of the best times of my life I actually think that tour because I just remember like not many people knew us as well it was so early on like we were going out and living our lives like just oh my gosh yeah we lived is there any places in the world you went to and you was like because I don't I the only comparisons I use is through comedy of touring in the place I'm like I'm gonna go Finland I don't know.

19:00I don't know.

19:01Mo Gilligan: I had people that come to my show in Finland. But then you do the show and you're like, oh, right, this is sold out. There's people coming to the show. What was that like for you guys? Because it's on a much bigger scale. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, going to places like Brazil and some of these places where you're like, hold on, what? This is, there's tens of thousands of people. They know who we are. What were some of those surprising places for you guys at that time? Well, definitely Brazil. I mean, I feel like Brazil would always been somewhere that I was like, we have to go. because I always saw so much love online.

19:31But then even just Latin America in general, like so much love. And we finally got to go to Brazil when we did like a festival there and it was fucking crazy. Like I have never witnessed anything like it. Oh my gosh. So that was just incredible. And like even now as a solo artist, like going back to Brazil and like having so much love for me. And I'm like, this is, oh, it's just wild. and it's funny because we did so much in the group but at the same time there was so much still left to do that we like we never had our own u.s tour and like we never really got to go around latin america and for me like i would be so fulfilled just as a human in general like if i could do that for myself yeah like tour the u.s and also yeah just go around latin america and i guess yeah go to all these territories that we've never been but yeah I think Latin America is a massive thing for me like I would love to just tour there come on

20:34Mo Gilligan: come on bad bunny come on well there you go because your stats are crazy in terms of you know 19 top 10 singles 5 number ones 10 million records sold worldwide yeah 10 way more than that is it 10 million records no it's like 70 really yeah oh roted 70 what stats you got there wikipedia is it chat gbt boy oh shit so like where you are now in your career because now you're in your middle so as a solo artist when you have those heights of being able to tour and selling records and like any group you know you all want to essentially you know go to a place where you're like oh I kind of want to do my thing but also i want to live life you know you've been on the road almost since you were 18 at this point um how does that conversation start for you where you sit there and you know you are joined it you start to enjoy the fruits of your labor you know when you start to do something you get comfortable and you're like yeah whenever i want i can just do this whenever i want how does that conversation start where you say you know what i want to i really want to do this thing now it's mad because coming out of the group obviously we've all gone solo so when i first came out of it i had all this expectation on my shoulders like right especially from my previous label right you need an overnight hit basically you need to be just as successful as the group like that's how they made me feel and like so stupid and naive to think that that could be the case like we took 10 years to get those stats you know like it's not something that's going to happen overnight like you're going from a group where like there's four people and like they're all you're leaving that and naturally the fan base is going to divide you know not everyone's going to come along and also like I've taken the made the decision to do music that is very different from the group as well and um so there's that to think about too and I think I've kind of gone on this journey of like trying to take those expectations off me because honestly like it does not do good for my mental health at all and um and even like the decision to go independent and just kind of have that full creative control and like i owe that to myself like i have done this for so long and now i can finally be true to me and do do what i want to do and like why would i waste that by living how someone else tells me i should what it should be you know like someone else telling me what my music should sound like and what it should be like i just don't i'm not there anymore so yeah i mean as hard as it's been like because it has and like there's always like that comparison as well like and that is hard like and i had it in the group to an extent like there was always that sort of comparison with whatever and and then now leaving it's like it's still kind of there even though it shouldn't be yeah because like how can you compare four artists that are doing very different things like in their own lanes like it you can't even do that so yeah it's like it's that pressure isn't it like the industry just kind of it's just there yeah

24:01Mo Gilligan: what does that pressure do to you in terms of when you're in the studio does it make you say I don't want to give them the thing that they're expecting I want to go down this route and like push this even even more now it makes me feel like that for sure because I'm just like I think I've really really searched for like my own thing my own sound and I wasn't thinking about like what's going to be marketable and what's what's going to sell like like you don't even know what's going to sell nowadays you know like TikTok So it's like, why am I going to waste that and not do what I want? So that's why I feel so proud of what I'm putting out now.

24:44Like as an independent artist, like this is the sound that I've always dreamt of having. Like an Elaine for myself. Yeah, exactly. And really sort of carved something out and that I'm just going to keep pushing. And something like an album as well in five, ten years time, I'm going to look back on and be so proud of that. I just did it my way. you know like follow my gut because it's it's never failed me and i just feel like happier

25:10Mo Gilligan: than i've ever been really as an independent artist now you know being part of one of the biggest female groups in the world and as an independent artist now how does it feel when you're on stage and it's it's just you you know where i guess there must have been joys and and times where you're with you know the rest of the girls and you're like okay cool you know I don't know it could be a small thing like my inner ear isn't working and okay this is my verse but ah you've you've got me there yeah yeah yeah um what's that like now being kind of like by yourself is it does it feel more free or is there times where you are in your element and you're like oh right it's it's it's just yeah do you know what's mad it's like there's two sort of sides to it I think on one hand it's like it's all on you now so like they're not looking at one other member maybe in that split second you make a mistake like it is literally new but then on the other hand there's no one to be in time with yeah or like if i make a step wrong i've not made a step wrong because it's just me so it's like um but yeah i don't know i thought i performing for me is just like my one love like i just love being on stage and it's when it just all makes sense for me like why i'm doing it like but you really lean into it though because like you've got the choreography and the dances and the steps because it could be very easy to say look I'm just gonna sing I'll let everyone do what they're doing but you really lean into the dancing do you know I mean that's just like I guess the little mix training and like energy and like just that's still going through my veins you know like we always put a show on and I yeah like there's so many different like aspects to what I feel like I can do as a solo artist and I want to express that and show that and yeah I mean it has to be a show yeah like otherwise what are we doing you know I want to give everything yeah I guess the beauty is because you've done this since you were 18 yeah it must be quite also quite nice to be quite free and to say I've got an idea for this and yeah you hit that step and I'm gonna do this bit here yes and I because you because if you're in the studio and you know you're writing music as a songwriter and you're like well this is the route i want to go down then it makes sense to put the rest of the pieces of the puzzle to say well now the dancers have to be like this or it might be a small thing we've got to shoot the video here we can't have a song that's you know a reggae vibe or yeah i'm a piano afro beats and just be in a studio yes we got to take it yeah yeah yeah no definitely there is definitely i mean even more so now than ever going independent as well like i am literally creative director like everything is coming from me yeah yeah but it's that idea of like just trusting my instinct and knowing that it's right if I want it it's right you know because it's me so yeah it's just it's fun you know there's just there's that that's the fun part like when you get to be creative and yeah like the music videos the visuals and I love all of that like yeah yeah um i'll always be really sort of like an artist that cares about that and even like this new era like the narrative behind it all and just um yeah just wanting to tell a story i speak about stories you know you started leaning into documentary making as well yeah because that's like another string to your bow in some ways where I guess like even having you on here it's allowing you to show more of your personality and more of an insight to who you are whereas with documentaries that's you saying that I've got this passion project and I want to really lean into this it's something I really care about you know it's not the thing that's front and center of yeah this is me in the spotlight like dancing, singing, is tackling the issue that you just care about.

29:16Mo Gilligan: You just hope, hey, man, I just hope people watch this thing and they listen to me. What made you step into that space? Oh, I... So one of my good friends, Tasha, she's a director for documentaries and I would speak to her, like, when I was in the group, like, this was years and years and years ago, and we said we'd like we had the idea like maybe we should do this documentary about race but it was really like at a weird time where it was a bit of a taboo subject like you just you just never knew how to speak about it especially in public or like on tv or like in the media like speaking about race was kind of it was quite a hard thing to do um but we we knew we wanted to do it and i remember saying to my mom this was like Like, I would say maybe like a year before the BLM movement and like when everyone started to talk about race, she was like, Leanne, like, this is amazing, but no one cares.

30:20No one cares. And God, I just never forget that. And then we started filming anyway, because like this needs to be told. and like and it was more so as well like for me to i guess to talk about my experiences in the group with race and everything as well and like i think i really wanted to kind of get that out and i think i've always been quite passionate about using my platform naturally and i think um i got that from the group too like i feel like we always wanted to make music to inspire people and i i never took that for granted in my platform and um I guess being like a mixed black girl in like a white pop group just wanting to kind of say that and get that story out there and talk about this issue and how it affected me so yeah I think that

31:15Mo Gilligan: was quite important did it ever like weigh on to your mental health where you're doing all of this stuff and it's really exciting and let's say you're touring and you're doing everything you could you could have ever dreamed of but also plus more you know you're it's like playing a game but you're on the bonus levels at this stage but there's always that part of you that's like yeah I didn't there's something I really I feel an issue with this thing I want to talk about and I just want to be listened to as much as people like hearing my songs and that's great there's other issues that i care about and it must be also quite hard when you know you're doing press and they're like so tell us about the new album yeah you know you don't want to be the one who's like i'll tell you about your new album but first yeah do you know i mean how how was that in because you spoke you speak you speak about your mental health a little bit yeah um and i just thought of you going into that route of doing a documentary about race pop and power which was like quite you know extremely brave at the time because you could have just done a documentary about this is my life this is where i'm at yeah come and see me backstage in the studio um but you took a route again which is quite similar to your music where it's like i want to talk about this issue yeah you know yeah yeah because yeah i always think when it comes to pop music and it comes to representation and i think of like the 90s of pop and let's say like top of the pops you watch top of the pops and there used to be a time where I'd watch it and be like, oh, right, it's Gary John, dear.

32:51Oh, it feels like a moment.

32:53Mo Gilligan: You know, so I guess for yourself, you know, you're doing music you like, but there's also a part of you, I really, ah, I just want to, can we just, can we just do a vocal in this bit? Did you ever have those moments? No, for sure, for sure. I think, like, I remember when we, we first were in our writing sessions, like the first album, I was like, right, guys, please can we do a slow jam, please? Because R &B is like my one, I love like just anything else got R &B. but obviously that wasn't really what we were going for you know so there was yeah there was definitely like a something in me that's like like because i loved what we did like i loved our music so much because i do love pop as well yeah but there's music that i just love where yeah r &b like reggae uh afro beats there's so many genres like black genres that have always wanted to bring out, you know, and like, and put into my own music.

33:48So, yeah, and couldn't really do that then.

33:50Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because there's three other people in the group as well, isn't it? Of course, yeah. Do you know what I mean? So, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so that's why this is so exciting, you know. I could just literally be me. So, but then at the same time, I think Little Mix did, we were influenced by so many genres. Yeah. If you listen to some of our music, like, you can hear it. Oh, yeah, yeah. There's a bit of rap in there, a bit of house in there. Yeah. like even like touch has a bit of like an island vibe like a little little little sprinkle so yeah I think that that was like the beauty of us you know like we were all like four very different girls and like brought so much like different um what's the word we were all passionate about different music and that you can hear that I mean you can always you can you can hear it and you can see it in a sense of when everyone's done what they've done in their own solo careers you're definitely a group of girls that have all said I want to do this I want to do that 100 % so different I really like this type of music do you know what I mean so different yeah and that's I guess what made Little Mix so mix like that blend so mix innit it's the mix yeah there you go Little Mix yeah and in terms of being on the screen as well as documentaries and music you act as well you was in a film with Amelia he was previous on the pod as well oh you had a male yeah yeah we had a male on the pod as well and you know you're playing a lead in that as well which is a Christmas a black Christmas rom-com which I had never seen before one of the first ever yeah yeah it's never no one's ever seen it before yeah so what was it also like stepping into like into that world because it must be so different compared to doing music or documentary documentary is a passion project you know music again is a passion project whereas acting is like ooh because it must be the same questions you get asked of like as a musician I don't know what the pressures of like but it's like oh can you can you act though yeah because I know what it's like when you're on set and it's like action and everyone's like stop oh my gosh I felt like I was learning on the project for sure like that was my first acting thing of course but I just also knew that I could do I don't know like I feel like performing music like being an artist is like a form of acting when you're on stage I just I don't know I did drama I feel like I kind of had it in me and this the character georgia as well she was very much me i don't know what it was like i could really sort of relate in a way um yeah she just felt like me so i kind of just and also with acting you you don't act you're just natural that is the hardest thing don't act basically just act like this is normal life but you know i was so lucky to have a male because he like coached me through everything and i was just amazing and he's done it from a really young age as well so I guess having someone who you know when you you look at each other's careers in some ways you're like well yeah I'd done music when I was really young yeah you acted when you was really young so I can kind of take the lead I trust what you're gonna say because if he was to start singing you'd be like hey you you want to hit them I don't know what's it called uh you want to hit the c minor yeah no but he he is amazing I feel like he definitely got the best start of me there was one time a one scene where i had to get emotional and like i was doing it then he was like right go back to your room listen to some sad just do whatever you got to do to get in the zone i was like shit i'm not doing good enough shit like i started freaking out and then obviously it was really weird because i kind of had to put myself in like a quite traumatic place in my head to make myself emotional which was quite wild and i don't know if most actors do that but I was like oh god I don't know if I could do that although I feel like I need to find a different process to kind of get in that state if I needed to but yeah acting is like a whole different world but I loved it I got the bug for sure like I definitely want to do more what would be like your ideal like piece or role to be in well I love a psychological thriller is it?

37:56oh yeah

37:58Mo Gilligan: any type of thriller but I don't know I could see myself like doing action or something and just doing stunts and I don't know but then also I love drama so like I love like exploring all the different emotions yes and I think I'd be quite good at that so yeah I just listed everything basically you're like a proper like creative in a sense of the vibe I get from you is a proper would you say you're an extrovert how funny no are you quite an introvert i'm an introvert i'm an in i'm an extroverted introvert like i will go to like any event or whatever and like not really talk to anyone and just be in myself and like i don't i don't have that sort of i need to talk to the most important person in the room like i don't have that yeah yeah about me yeah that's cringe though i can't do that i can't do it like i'm just so like oh my god when i see people do that i'm like hey chill out yeah but even like the the small talk thing i struggle with that and you're gonna laugh at me as well like even like being now like a a mom like i'm doing a school run yeah and like meeting all of these like mums yeah because the moms must be hyped to meet you though slightly you know what i mean maybe i don't know but like they're all so lovely but like that small talk thing scares me and makes me anxious so sometimes i'll go and i'll kind of like stand on the the outside and just kind of i don't know like i'm just a bit of weirdo like that i'm quite socially awkward but then people tell me i'm not but i feel like i am i think that's okay to be sometimes socially awkward because i guess for your job you're switched on all the time maybe yeah so then when i go to places where i can just be me it's like it's like a weird thing isn't it because yeah like all all i've ever really known is leanne the pop star and like well not all i've ever really known but you know what i mean it's like you're that yeah you're always that because it doesn't turn off it's like the sims isn't it i love the sims you play the sims i don't play the sims i played it a little bit but i guess when you're in the public eye it's like being in the sims because someone can see you coming and they know who you are yeah and they know oh my god that's leanne from little mix oh my god listen to her music i think it makes me anxious and that and they know that but you don't know that about them and i think that's why i bring the sims into because it's that you've got that green arrow pointed above your head do you know what i mean and again you can have someone i i always find it interesting when i walk past someone in the street and be like you're right mo how's a little one i'm like what yes and then because in my head i'm just i'm just going to the shops i'm oblivious of it yeah then it's like oh oh right you know me as that i don't see myself as that so i can see how you can introvert yourself and also like with my friends i'm just me because they don't care about who i am or what it is it's literally i'm from school you know so like there's no there's nothing there's no front there's nothing there it's just me so yeah it's like new situations it's like and like a couple of mums were like oh we saw you on strictly you was amazing but it is lovely though you know it is sweet but yeah it's like a new world i guess but no to answer your question i'm an introverted extrovert okay If that makes sense.

41:07Yeah. Weird.

41:08Mo Gilligan: When you are doing things like the school run, is it, because you're saying like you are kind of the background. Yeah. You've got the twins. Is it just about kind of just being like, no, I want them to, you know, you're at the playground. You're like, no, like play, do your thing. Oh my God. A hundred percent. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I mean, I mean all these like this group chat, there's like all these apps and like, it's, it's just a lot like stepping into this like new world of, yeah, being like a school mom. and it is a lot intense. But yeah, you want to do as much as possible for them, 100%.

41:40They're about to make all their friends and we're going to start having to have play dates. It's crazy. But no, it is a whole new world, that. It's cute.

41:51Mo Gilligan: Do you enjoy it? Because it seems like you really enjoy it because you post about your children and holidays. You show your personal side as well as your work side as well. And that must be quite a fine balance in some ways because you want to let people in, but you're also like, I don't want to let you in too much. But also we're living in a world where people want to know everything. Yes. And like, if you're not active, you don't exist really. You know, you've got to be as active as possible to like, I guess, keep momentum. And as much, you know what, I love, I love social media because I can talk to my fans.

42:28and there's an app called Discord that I love because like it's so safe and it's just like me and my fans and we can just talk

42:35Mo Gilligan: and it's lovely but like every now and again I'll go on Twitter and I'll start scrolling and I'm like oh why did I do this to myself why did I do that and oh god and it can be quite toxic and I feel like at the minute there's like random like I don't know like just other fandoms and like they come for you and it's just like would your idol like what you're doing right now like you're literally essentially bullying and trolling yeah and other artists like would would your idol that you follow love like what you're doing right now you know um so yeah god twitter world i guess the reason i asked because like because you're an independent solo artist it's that fine mix of yes i want you to listen to my music and what i'm doing yeah but i guess as like an independent artist it's almost like gotta kind of give you a bit more of me that i wouldn't normally if that makes sense yeah because it's you know you you are you are the record label in some ways you know so it's like i've got to give you a bit more of me that i normally wouldn't so knowing that when you give that bit more they're like oh wow i'm really oh i'm really i'm really in now yeah yeah because i guess the payoff is like again once you put out the track you're like oh wow like we put everything into this as much as we've done the big press tours and the music and the choreography and stuff we also had to share the highs and the lows of this oh yeah and showing that openness which is yeah i can't imagine what it's like as as a musician um but also like extremely like brave to do at the same time yeah i mean because you're like i want to make the song i am the record label i am the artist i'm the manager the ceo of this thing and i'm a mom i've got to do the school run and can i can can I really drop that in the song?

44:28Mo Gilligan: But there's people out there like, yeah, we kind of want to know, you know? Yeah, no, there's definitely like that sort of, yeah, push and pull for sure. But I've always been like someone that's quite open anyway. And like, I think that's just me as a person. Like, I've always wanted to be really personal with my fans. And I mean, I don't show the girls faces. I don't think I ever will. But like, I think, let me show the back of their heads. And like what I'm doing like day to day. Like, I don't mind that because yeah I do want my fans to kind of like come in with me and like even the album like is very much like it's so personal and like when you listen to it like the story of it and the um you really understand like why I've like chosen the sound that I'm doing like why like everything you understand it all um but yeah speak about the album the album is gonna be is it out in February?

45:21Mo Gilligan: Yeah. The album, 2026. Yeah. Oh, wow. But the single's out now, right? Yes, Dead and Gone is out now. Because you was on Strictly as well. Yes, yeah, yeah. And Strictly's big, you know? I know. I know. That was a good little moment. Was that your first time going to the set? No, no, no. I'd done Strictly in the group. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah. So first solo artist. Yeah. Yeah, first solo artist. I went there to do the terms and conditions. So you'd be like, guys, if you don't know. Oh, yeah. And I was like, because when I got there, they were like hey Mo man would you ever do Strictly? Would you ever come on in?

45:51Oh my god would you?

45:52Mo Gilligan: No no no I can't do it man. Why? It's weird because I used to do dance in drama school innit? Yeah. So Bob Fosse jazz hands all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Like I can dance but I know how like intense it is to dance. Does that make sense? Yeah. So I like maybe a one off. Do you know what I mean? Oh they did the Christmas special thing you should do that. Maybe possibly. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Highly doubt it if you're listening. Oh, I'm really intrigued to see you dance now. But I can dance, innit? I've done contemporary and stuff like this, innit? Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, go on and win it, man.

46:27Go on.

46:27Mo Gilligan: But I don't know, because obviously, like, my friend of mine, Eddie Caddy, done it, and he was like, bro. Oh, I love him. It's not a joke, innit? He's like, your ankles, your knees are hurting. And I can't lie, I'm a pussy up at times. I'm like, no, this isn't for me, man. Do you know what I mean? Fair, fair. This isn't for me, man. Yeah. So like your end, your end, you know, you're in a place now where, you know, we've seen your kind of rise unfold with you and the girls of Little Mix. And now we're seeing you as a solo artist, you know, as a mother and as an independent artist. So in terms of your end and where you're at and you're still in like a beautiful sweet spot as well.

47:12Mo Gilligan: you're in a really great sweet spot as an artist um how do you start looking at you know your career as a whole because you know the girls will get older you know and they're gonna have a famous mum and dad and you're gonna as much as there's like the play dates now it's gonna be like you know a small like two small versions of you mad that might say hey mum like i want to apply for this thing and I'm going to be 15 can I borrow your laptop to apply and you've gone through the processes yeah from an 18 year old to now where you are how do you start to look at your end in some ways and when I say your end not your end but how you start to you know move into into your career you know but also like juggle like family life at the same time gosh I mean yeah I am trying to do it now the juggle is real like it's so hard because i just feel like you can't really what's the word you can't give a hundred percent anymore you know like that hundred percent is with my children so like i can't physically then give a hundred percent everywhere else yeah i don't feel like ask any mom like you know people say oh you can have it all and you can but it is so hard to put 100 % into everything yeah like I personally physically like mentally emotionally oh my gosh like it is a lot and like I am definitely going through that mum guilt right now and also like Andre living away like oh I get upset they don't have they don't always have one parent so I struggle with that and I feel bad um but then I'm like I want them to look up to me and see this strong woman and see this hard worker this grinder and like i think when they're older they're gonna understand it and they're gonna see it uh but i am definitely struggling now currently with that juggle for sure yeah and i yeah i think with andre being away it's just it's just hard but i just know what we're doing is in the long run you know seeds you know yeah You're planting seeds for a huge, big garden.

49:25Mo Gilligan: You know what I mean? At a time where, you know, your partner's working away, you know, you're here doing a, you know, you're doing press runs and on podcasts and stuff. But I think the really unique thing that you're doing right now is planting all these seeds that once, you know, the girls are like 15 or 18 and they're like, hey, mum, like, we've got this idea and, you know, I want to be the choreographer. and you know she wants to do the music and you you know that process yeah and i guess that's probably the the coolest thing you guys are doing now is planting those seeds that by the time they're 15 you're able to say yeah like you know we're gonna go on holiday we're gonna you know andre might be coaching do you know i mean and i'm going on a solo tour and yeah if you want to why don't you be the backing dancers oh my god crazy isn't it you know duets back to back i think that's the coolest thing that what you're able to do but i definitely can i understand what the struggle is like because no one gets to see that side of everything do you know what i mean yeah for sure show them the glitz and glamour of it oh yeah 100 you know yeah but no i feel so grateful that they will be able to have these opportunities and like and like they love music like one of them is so good at singing like hits every note and i'm like you're pitch perfect at four years old and then the other one loves to dance and it's like shaking her hips and doing her hands on my, calm down your four.

50:50Yeah, yeah. Like, it's, oh my God, it's the cutest thing ever. So like, yeah, it's, yeah, mad.

50:57Mo Gilligan: Oh, yeah, man. This has been a good catch up, man. I know you've got an extremely busy day. So again, we really appreciate your time. And honestly, it's great to see you do so many things, which sometimes people often say to me like, Mo, you're doing this, you're doing that. And I'm sitting there like, you know, documentaries independent artists you know i mean you're part of charities you're doing music yeah um and on top of that do you know i mean juggling you know being a mother at the same time you know but also people don't see the side of what it's like when you're up late at night trying to get a song together and then you've got to do a school run honestly i'm blessed man i don't even know you like that but you definitely make it look good and you make it look easy do you know So from everyone at the podcast, this has been your beginning, middle and end.

51:49Mo Gilligan: Thank you very much. Thank you. Hey, what's up? Thank you so much for listening to the podcast today. Now, a lot goes in to making each episode. I know you hear my voice, but there's a team behind the scenes who helped make it. And if you did enjoy it, I'd really, really appreciate if you could show the love to them by giving us five stars. And if you also have the time, please leave us a review. It's always appreciated. And we love reading the comments. and of course we want to keep making it better thank you for listening and have a great day peace