Tv Presenter Extraordinaire, Angellica Bell

0:00Mo Gilligan: Yes, what's good people? My name is Mo Gilligan. Right now you are tuned into my podcast, The Beginning, Middle and End. Now, this episode's guest has been on our screens as a television presenter for over 25 years. She is widely recognised as the face of CBBC, but has evolved beyond that era to become a much-loved household name. She's been on everything from children's TV to primetime television. She's done everything from paper rounds to going to the Arctic. Here to talk about her 90s TV heyday and what she's doing right now. Please welcome to the podcast, Angelica Bell. It's Mo. You doesn't even know who I am.

0:47Oh, don't do that, man. You're big time, man. Don't do that. Literally me, I'm like... Don't do that, man. Literally, I was like, okay. Nah, man. Who pulled out? I've been on the one show with you. I know, but... Look, Mo, you... Even though... Yeah, literally, I'm much older than you. You still are an inspiration. Even for people who've gone before. No, because you've come out...

1:16Mo Gilligan: But you've done stuff. I know we're giving each other... But you are like... You've got to remember, yeah? There's a generation of us as kids, especially black kids, that you was our first face on television growing up to the point where it was almost like is this a real person because i've only known i only know my memories of them as a child like that that's like a whole generation where we sit there and we're like raw like growing up that was a person i've seen maybe in the morning or in the evening and the person that i related to the person that i feel like i know that person and then you get older and you're like oh right like i'm doing one show what angelica bell oh right and you want to hold it in it's like your inner child wants to like come out and say like oh i grew up watching on tv by the way yeah of course man a hundred percent 110 000 i'm not coming on here for you to make me cry no no but i promise you i swear to you but But it's weird because I, at the time, I guess it was strange for me because I didn't really have anyone before me.

2:25Yeah. So I was just trying to like navigate all of this on my own. When you say that inside me, it's almost I find a peace because it thinks, you know what, it was worth it.

2:38Mo Gilligan: Yeah, 100%. I had to hold in when I went on one show and it was like, hey, what's happening, Mo? You're right. And I'm like, Angelica really knows me. like right like but also i grew up watching you on tv like i remember like watching you on cbbc and stuff and i'm like right uh okay let me let me hold it in there's one which is like an age thing which is like growing up but there's also it's just another black face where you're like oh my gosh like this is someone i felt like i knew in my house as a presenter but also is like for like i know this person like and it's the same i guess for like sir trevor mcdonald yeah You know, it might be like an Ian Wright.

3:17Mo Gilligan: There's some people that are held in the hearts of the black community where it's just like, that person was responsible for like 15 years of my life as a person where I was like, cool, there's a black person on TV. It's proof I've seen it. It's not an imagination. Do you know what I mean? So, yeah, man, 100%, man. Listen, even to have you on the pod, it's the first thing I asked. I was like, yeah, please come on the pod. Not in a sense of like, but you have a story that's so fulfilling that we also would never know. Do you know what I mean? And I think I'm in a different generation of doing TV where people are like, yeah, it's normal if you have a Saturday night show.

4:05Mo Gilligan: And I know all of my elders are like, yo, we didn't have no one saying pussy on Channel 4. Yeah. You are a different generation. And that's why for me, you're a G. Oh, big ups, man. Because I was told to my face, we would never have a black person on primetime. And, you know, sometimes I think, I can see myself in this meeting where I was told that. It wasn't like they were just crediting what I was doing because it was like, you're brilliant, you know, on CBBC. I was, you know, I was there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But they were like, but, you know, when you make that step, it's not it's not that space for you so for me to see you do that I'm sitting there going yes because that almost helps me carry on I can still keep working I think there's still dreams and possibilities for me because I think you always need to have dreams and possibilities whatever stage you're at whether it's you're 10 20, 30, 60 you know the world's your oyster Yeah, man.

5:10So that's why I'm like, I'm gassed.

5:12Mo Gilligan: No, man. Listen, man. The feeling is mutual. But let's go to your, not your beginning. I didn't know that you're St. Lucian. I didn't know that. Yeah, man. I'm St. Lucian as well, you know. Lie! Yeah, man. That's from St. Lucia still. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got bare family in Castries. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I knew there was a synergy. Okay. So your parents are St. Lucian, yeah? Yeah. So Castries, Souffre. I love it. I know it's a small island, but we represent. Yeah, yeah. You know, and I love that I've got that history. And in fact, I'm going to be going back to St. Lucia at some point this year just to reconnect.

5:49I haven't been there that many times, but I love it. I just love the Caribbean. It's got a role with nice calmness about it, I think.

6:00Mo Gilligan: Not to say that other islands haven't, but it's got a stillness about it. I don't know if that's because it's it's a volcanic rock do you know what I mean like you know but it has a real nice stillness to it like I remember going to the Sulfur Springs I was just about to ask you about that yeah my dad went because my dad goes there to wash his locks and stuff innit and I remember just going in there and just sitting in there and I was like I'm like this is so boring man but then sitting in there but the minerals babe no no no but then sitting in there how I left afterwards I was like I get it yeah and it's like after that the way you just have to I don't know if that's a Caribbean thing though the way of life is just like yo chill out relax it is on a different pace easy yeah I don't know if that if that if that is it but I'll never forget that I remember going after the Sulfur Springs and just being like oh my god I feel so at ease now I feel so relaxed man it's a great pace of life so you grew up in West London right yeah Would you say like in terms of early on, did you want to be a journalist?

7:10No. It's funny, growing up in Ealing and West London was interesting because all my gran's family, she came over during the Windrush era, they all moved to South. Yeah, yeah. But she got a job in West. Okay. So we were like the only black people on the street. And I always just wonder why she never, the neighbours next door never chat to us.

7:30Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But in my head, I wasn't thinking, you know, deep. I was just like, we're nice. Yeah. We're cool. It's different now because I feel like now you kind of need to know your neighbours. You need to. Community is everything. Yeah, yeah. Now you need to know who your neighbours are. Hello, how you doing? How you doing? People watch out for each other. But yeah, so I loved it. I loved where I grew up. I love my gran. My gran was just the life and soul. She had energy. She was cooking the Caribbean. And then she came over here and she got a job cooking. and she would cook in offices and schools and stuff like that.

8:05And that's how I learned to cook with her, you know. And we used to get the bus from Ealing, the 607 or the 207, to Shepherd's Bush Market. Our food, ground provisions, yes.

8:21I'm like, bring it. And she used to barter with the people. I'm not paying for that. That's too expensive. So, yeah, love West London vibes.

8:31Mo Gilligan: because your first job was a newspaper round listen yeah that's why I asked about journalism and I didn't know if that was like a routine or something no no I just wanted the money and that's like those cashing hand jobs when you're young as well and there came a little envelope yeah yeah I always wanted one I never got one but then I lived on an estate in the 90s and like no one was really getting newspaper you can't you can't deliver people just take it they're just yeah give me that paper man take that out literally I was just walking the street doing that The paper arm was good, actually, because it got me out.

9:05You know, and you see your environment.

9:09Mo Gilligan: So I quite enjoyed it. And you get to know your community. So that was my first job. And the feeling of earning and getting my own money. It's such a nice feeling, isn't it, at a young age? you feel you feel like empowered yeah you feel like you can buy the house yeah you live in there you go and then i also used to in the summers wash people's cars okay yes i do rate it though when i see the young kids i'm like it's good to see the hustle man yeah do you know i mean and that's it that is what i think i had from a young age the hustle did you work at mcdonald's as well yeah yeah so you've had proper like those that was not yeah like hard graft jobs do you know i mean not in a sense of like bricklaying or anything but like having to front well no so not so much but like front-facing jobs where you gotta give someone a newspaper knock on the door leave it there or mcdonald's do you know i mean serving people fast food you know i've never thought about it like that and you're right there were jobs where one you had to graph because i remember it was the free paper in ealing so there was loads of them and go back and get them okay and then with mcdonald's it you know the shifts i used to do the early shift the shifts that no wanted to do.

10:28Yeah, you have to get your customer service skills, talk to people. I used to love being on the tools, just chatting to people and with then fries and being on the station. And when it was busy, it was like, come on, come on, come on. It was full on, but I enjoyed it.

10:44Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you're right. It's that idea of a notion. I'm working hard and I'm going to get paid. And I think when you do it with people, when you're interacting with them especially for me because i worked in retail a lot the minute i started having to do let's say television you've got to read or autocue in front of a live audience you're like this is just like reading the returns terms and conditions to someone who is annoyed that they can't get a return it's that's how i would kind of envision it would you process it like that yeah because i'm like this is very daunting i'm talking in front of loads of people and i've got to deliver this down the camera and I know everyone's watching and especially I don't know if you've had this where where you know like you're talking like let's say like down auto queue and you've got a guest on and the guest is really watching you present and they're like they're really looking at you like they're looking at you intently and you're going are you looking at me because I'm doing a good job or are you trying to psych me out because I don't know what you're doing you're looking at me they're looking you in the eye you'll be like reading something and then literally yeah you're like why are you looking at me man yeah and you've got to look down the barrel like okay alright cool cool especially when you mess up in front of people and you're like oh okay alright no if you can you try to do yeah sorry if you can just slow down a little bit quick yeah yeah no that's going to finish up yeah alright alright you ready okay in three two so guys that draws us to a close but what a pleasure it's been and that's goodbye from me and everyone else here at the one show go bye

12:24yeah you're right

12:26Mo Gilligan: because you know you're like see I fucking you were watching me you were waiting for me to stumble it's so true especially if it's like a big star a big star and that's why whenever I go obviously I've you know presented for a long time so whenever I go on someone else's set I purposely don't look at them don't look at what they're reading and stuff Because it's the worst thing. I try my best to just look at, because I don't know when I'm on. If I'm being interviewed, I'm like, oh, okay, cool. And they'll be like, oh, so coming up, we have a man who is about to do a world tour. And I'm like, oh, right, that's me.

13:04Mo Gilligan: That's me. And I'm like, well, I'm looking. Oh, all right, cool. But I know what you mean. That intense look is, yeah, it can be a lot, man. Do you like being interviewed? I don't mind it. I think because comedy, I'm used to having a conversation with people I don't know. So an interview is the same, but it's like, well, this person knows about me. But that's because, you know, they say, obviously from my perspective, they always say, when you interview comedians, you know, you don't know what you're going to get. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because obviously you can hide behind the jokes. Oh, yeah, 100%.

13:35Mo Gilligan: And then people laugh, yeah, and stuff. But then when you've got to talk about yourself, it's like, do I have to be funny or not? Or do they want the straight me? or do you know what it is i think whenever i do an interview and i kind of tried my best to get a sense of i'm like okay this is live so i know we're on the clock so i've got to push the tour be funny and be charming they're the three things i've got to push let's say it's like one show for example i know i'm there to push the tour but i might be looking next to me and it's like you know music legends and i'm like if anyone's tuning in right now i feel like they're probably tuning in for this legend.

14:10Mo Gilligan: So I also want to find a way to like, oh, how can I get you involved? Because you probably don't know who I am and that's fine. But I know that I've got a Porsche tour, maybe, I remember when I was on with Whoopi Goldberg. And the day... I wouldn't have been able to meet you. Listen, the day before, I'd just done the O2 in it. So I was on a high. Yeah. And I'm like, right, it's Whoopi Goldberg. Right. And like, right. So I was like, it's Whoopi, innit? Like, like I want to I want to fan out yeah but also I'm like I'm here to also you know tell people about the tour I've got coming up and she was so nice and she was like ah you know she didn't say a big fan but she was like how'd you done the O2 yesterday and I was like what whoopie knows so when I went on the show I was at ease because I've had a little rapport but some people you don't get to meet so I try my best to just get them in the conversation and say oh yeah you know I'm on tour we're going to be going to America oh you're from America man you're from New York if you want to come you can come yeah I might come yeah I know she's not but I think I learned that very quickly on like in in in a sense of doing TV stuff when you're being interviewed where you're like this is a couch so let's make this a conversation that everyone can feel involved in yeah yeah it's whenever I do an interview and it's like maybe like a podcast for example and it's it's like cool if you want me to get deep I'll get deep but it's like what do you want?

15:36Mo Gilligan: Do you want the bants? Because we can do the comedy stuff but if it gets deep this is going to get very deep and I think whenever it gets deep people are like oh oh it's a bit deep you're talking about being depressed oh okay yeah so what makes you happy in life then Merle? I'm like what do you want man? Do you know what I mean? Yeah yeah yeah yeah so you didn't do journalism but you went into politics yeah I went to university and I did a politics degree what made you go into politics? I just was really interested in the world. I like watching the news. Politics is every day. It's all around us.

16:10And I really like that it was something current. And I could use past experiences, but think about the future. I just thought it was a really good degree. I mean, I did A-level politics, history and English. And I just like essay based subjects. But I just thought it'd be a great, great degree to do because I was thinking of doing law. I was going to do a law conversion. I had a family member who was a barrister. I think it was at Middle Temple or something. And he said, you know, I can get you work experience. And he was black. So for me, I was like, oh, my gosh, there's somebody who could help me in this career path.

16:47But he died when I was young.

16:50Mo Gilligan: Oh, wow. Yeah. And he was going to sort out my work experience. And then he died suddenly. And that really rocked me because I was like, oh, my gosh. you know most people have connections and i loved him i loved him so much and i thought this was going to be something i would do and he'd help me but then he was gone and then all of a sudden i was like okay i don't have a connection into that world so i still had that place to do my law conversion but i deferred it and was trying to work out what i would do and stuff so politics was a means to an end. Yeah. But it was also about the world we live in.

17:29And it really helped me sort of try and think about what I wanted for my future, politics, people, why people do the things they do. So yeah, I really enjoyed my time at university as well. I was the first person in my family to go to university.

17:48Mo Gilligan: Oh, wow. So again, I was just trying to work it out, navigate that yeah did it feel pressure to to to some degree because you are the first person to go to university and i think it's also i feel like now university just feels like a path for a lot of young people now yeah whereas i know when you probably went to university it wasn't the norm as well i remember even when i went university in like and I got like 20, 2010. And even then it was still some people's that I could just get a job. You know, it's only I feel like after that, it was like, no, no, you go to college, you go uni, it's easier to get in.

18:27Mo Gilligan: There's a lot more different universities. You can find your way around what you want to, you want to study. So did it feel pressure to some degree? The pressure was on myself. I'm one of these people like, likes goals. And if something isn't meant for me, I'm like, I want it even more. I just thought I need to I want that goal I want to try and better myself I want to break cycles so I thought just do it so yeah there was pressure on me to make sure I got there yeah yeah and I now I think back I'm like I'm really proud I did that and I wanted that for myself that was right for me so I'm not saying that everyone needs to go down that path but it was right for me at that time whether it was breaking the cycle of just staying at home or breaking the cycle of the past but i just wanted something for myself yeah i don't know what it was how it would come i don't know what job it was you know because again people say oh you know do you know what you want to be when you go i don't know what i wanted to be you know sometimes i still say i don't know what i want to be now but it was it felt good it felt good to go and also as well we hadn't didn't go on holidays you know back then it was just like you either went back home or you stayed in your yard yeah one of your early jobs was uh working on a big breakfast i am so fascinated with the big breakfast because for me, I remember growing up and having to get ready for school and seeing this show happen.

20:01Mo Gilligan: And it was like, this is bonkers. It just seemed like adults having the time of their life, but doing breakfast TV. And I was like, what? Because the only comparison I could make at the time was GMTV, which is in a studio, nice pastel colours. But also you change the channel and you're like, sorry what what's this stuff this is mad it's outside and you've got a band on there i remember seeing people like shaggy on there i'm like shaggy mr lover man oh my god and i'm like oh gotta go there was no catch up it was just it was on and it was until i started like doing television and i'd meet people and they execs commissioners producers and they'd all say yeah yeah i started off there yeah one of the best things i've ever done and i say oh wow i'm i am i am fascinated with nights tv in general 90s and early 2000 tv there's any documentary i just want to watch it and also meeting people in television and they tell me what it's like and it's just like wow it was like that what was it like for you especially working on you know the iconic big breakfast i remember thinking what are my options going to be am i going to go into law am I going to be in TV?

21:16Because I did a lot of student radio and I did drama at school and stuff. I just liked that world of putting on a persona. And also entertaining people. It's a bit like I liked making people smile. And those are great mediums to do that. So when I finished university, I was like, when I was at university, I was like, if you're going to know what you want to do, you've got to explore it. So I just remember writing all these letters to people going, can I do work experience in the summer holidays? and when the big breakfast got back to me I was like oh my gosh planet 24 back then I was like whoa because you're right I used to watch it it was iconic you know the anarchy the like laissez-faire we're making TV we don't give a monkey you know it was that sort of energy

22:01Mo Gilligan: yeah yeah yeah I mean it was hard because obviously it was early mornings you had to get there the crack of dawn work hard it wasn't the greatest jobs teas coffees you know you were a dog's body but if I was going to be a dog's body I was going to be the best dog's body ever yeah everybody says this as well everybody that I've met that was a runner was like if I had to just do anything I would just do it anything I remember clearly the first time I went to the house because the offices were I'd say yeah a bit a bit of a distance from the house in Stratford when wow it's like I'd climbed Mount Everest and I got to the top If you'd have said that was my only experience of TV, I'd have been like, great.

22:47It was massive. I remember they had different teams on and I'd work with different teams. Now, obviously, it was hard as well because I had to prove myself. Again, there wasn't, you know, many minority people working in TV. So I had to be on it, make sure I was on time.

23:04Mo Gilligan: Yeah. But it was amazing. And it gave me a real insight into what was out there. I remember once they asked me to dress up. They were like, you can go on camera. I had to wear some latex nurse outfit. I don't think anyone's got that footage. That is what I loved about that time. There's no footage.

23:26No one needs to see that. But I was there strutting it, strutting around. I don't know how I got into that with a lot of talcum powder. But that was like my moment on TV. But I was part of the process. I was helping them. So it was a really good experience. I think once I'd done that, I was like, okay, maybe this is an option. But again, you never know. And people are hustling. People are writing all the time.

23:51Mo Gilligan: Yeah. And even though you have a dream, you never know if it's going to happen. So maybe it wasn't a dream. Maybe it was just something I was just taking the moment, enjoying the moment, and just waiting for the next opportunity to come along. So I think I did that for two weeks, and then that was that. Yeah. And I know, I think they had a policy where if you did it, that was it. Just to get more people in and stuff. So it was a great, a good time. It was amazing. And I think whenever you want to do something, to see how it works behind the scenes is always important. Yeah, it gives you a sense of that.

24:32Mo Gilligan: I think because whatever people see on television, any show, any TV show is to finish articles, to finish products. That's a gloss. Yeah, it's the meetings that you didn't see. It's the changes. It's something going on at the back that you have no idea it's going left. And then what you're seeing is this like calmness. And sometimes you'll never know. A hundred percent. And it's even like if I present the one show now or any live show. Because what I did for most of my career was live TV. Yeah, yeah. Even like, you know, working on CBBC when you had network. Because I have open talkbacks. You have open talkbacks.

25:11Yeah.

25:11Mo Gilligan: everyone you see open talk okay anyone listening open talk back is where the exec or the director you can just hear it everything you can hear someone walk you can hear someone walk into the gallery yeah everyone I know who works in TV like especially people that have been doing it for years like yourself Derma Davina or who else is like Reggie Yates and I always ask that's the one thing I ask you open or closed because a lot of us now, we're like, yeah, no, close that. Lock that off. Lie. I don't need to know. I need to get a show with Mo. He's going to open. So you have open talk back. So that's the earpiece is in your ear and you can hear what's going on throughout the entirety.

25:58So I could be talking to you and I can still hear full on conversations. That is crazy.

26:04Mo Gilligan: That is mad. I'm like a meerkat. Yeah. Wow. And if I have clothes, I feel naked. yeah I feel alone does it make you work better knowing it's open because you know the madness of what's going on but you have to concentrate of what you're looking at and seeing it and then playing to camera yeah it makes you well it makes your brain work hard yeah and you're in the moment also it gives you that three second buffer three to two second buffer should anything go wrong so for instance if you're presenting and you've got to link to a VT but you can hear in the gallery we haven't got the VT we haven't got the VT because if you're on clothes by the time that person tells the director there's a problem that's two seconds and then he opens the talk back and goes oh by the way you haven't got time to think so it gives me thinking time I mean trust me when I first started on it I was rubbish yeah yeah yeah or I'd be on TV and be like repeating what was said to me I'm like we're talking about something and I'm like yeah and we're having Chinese tonight

27:17Mo Gilligan: literally I'll just come up with random stuff and I'll be sweating going I'm going to get fired

27:25Mo Gilligan: so to this day you still have open talk to this day wow I can't work like that maybe I'm nosy maybe I'm a control freak I don't know what it is, but I need to know what's going on. Okay. Yeah, I have it closed. But I guess for me it's different because I've only done a little bit of live TV. But also knowing that I think with me, I just need to, I always have the pleasure of going to comedy for something. Yeah. So I have the pleasure of like, this is going left. Let's bring it back to a bit of comedy, maybe calm it down. So if someone tells me, yeah, Mo, ask them about that. or okay that clip isn't working but we're gonna go with that or okay we've got someone coming on i'm like okay i know that now it's almost like how comedy works is like it's a heckle cool let me okay also um now we do have your clip unfortunately because of copyright we can't show it oh that's how famous he is everyone yeah so that that luckily is my saving grace so it It gives you time to ad lib, do your thing.

28:32Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. So maybe you're a control freak as well.

28:35Mo Gilligan: No, definitely with TV. In a different guise. There is ways that I like it. Like, for example, I like to go through every part of the show on autocue. So if it's like we're putting it in autocue, then before the show, I'll then sit down with the person in autocue, go through it again. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, let's take that out. Let's shorten that. Because, you know, they'd be like, okay, you've got to say that. I'm like, yeah, cool, cool, cool. I go to the autocue person and be like, listen, cut that all out. Say that bit. We don't need that quick. And they look at me like, are you sure? I'm like, listen, I'll take the flight.

29:08Mo Gilligan: But cut that out. And we go to that bit and that bit. And then there's a way that sometimes I don't, I just need to see what the line is. Then I think that that's because you know you. And I don't think there's anything wrong with knowing how you work best. Yes. Yeah, yeah. whereas sometimes people think well that's control but it's not actually you've you clearly spelt out that that is how i get my best performance and i know yeah well i can go from a to b yeah yeah yeah and i think that's another thing even in life if you know how you work yeah what works for you go with that yeah no i think it's always been the key to my success to one also work with the people behind the scenes that i work really well like that well with so i work with an executive producer called rianne archibald so she was one of the first execs that i'd work with on like the big nasty show and in my own show and we have a great synergy of someone that knows me yeah and like doing things like the brits which is like oh my god this is live you've got a lot of egos different musicians that was a massive gig but at the o2 but also for me it was just like okay i just want to do myself justice whether people like it at home or not that's up to them but i need to know that i say this link how we've written it with my friend david the joe who i work with as a writer and it comes out because if if people watch it and they're like i don't believe that's you you know mo i feel like you're just saying the line yeah yeah and i don't know if you've ever had this year you ever like you know when it's because you've done a lot of live TV, right?

30:47Mo Gilligan: Where it's like, okay, that's the link we're going to go in with that. Sticking with that, yeah? Cool. And you say it and there's that sigh of relief where you're like, the way that that joke or that thing was meant to be said went and now I'm like, ah. Listen, 100%, right? So my thing is, yeah, even now, Regen, I get nervous. Really? Babe! I didn't think you got nervous, you know? Get nervous. So you hear a theme tune, you're working on something and you hear a theme tune, you're like, okay we're ready we're going we're going and if you start thinking about the amount of people sitting in their sofa at home ready for you to come on screen you will just crumble yeah 100 % so my thing is as long as I get the first line out and I sit super slow slower than my because I speak quite fast anyway so most people at home won't know I'm speaking slow anyway because it's probably normal speed as long as I get those first two or three lines out it's plain sailing there we go here we go let's go

31:52and then you then you can fly yeah and then you get comfortable innit exactly but if you summon the first one you're catching you're chasing

31:59Mo Gilligan: it's done you're chasing it's finished yeah it's finished it's finished because I feel like afterwards after you're comfortable you can make a little I said that line wrong be like that's alright we're halfway in now yeah yeah yeah and also then you can just even if you make a little stumble or you say something differently no one at home knows but you can style it out and you know what I'm saying they're thinking that was part of the script so but then you so after that after Big Breakfast you done Children's TV on CBBC and that was in the early 2000s as well up until 2007 how was the shift change from doing Big Breakfast to now Children's TV how was that different for you?

32:44I mean obviously Big Breakfast is more risque. CBBC it was, I call it school it was like being back on campus. The first few weeks it was life changing remember we didn't have many channels then so for one minute I was Angelica just doing my own thing, living my life all of a sudden everyone saw me oh wow people stopped me all the time and I was very well I was acutely aware of what I was doing having the BBC brand associated with me and that responsibility to young people

33:19Mo Gilligan: yeah and I took that seriously and I took it seriously as well for myself because it was an opportunity that I never thought I would have me why me yeah did you ever say that to yourself yeah around those times yeah of all the people that wanted to work at CBBC and get that job you know I knew I was lucky. So I didn't want to mess up, you know, because people say, oh, you'll be really good or you can't do this. You can't do that. I was like, well, that wasn't me anyway. Yeah, I like life. I like to party. I like to have a good time. Yeah, you're an adult. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. But I also am aware of consequences.

34:00Anything you say, anything you do, do it. But no, think of the scenarios that could happen. I did value the job. and what it brought. It gave me an income. And I saved, going back to what we were saying, earning the money. You know, I didn't come from much, but I had, you know, that's fine.

34:21Mo Gilligan: That was my lot. You know, I'm not one of those as well who's like, oh, woe is me, the glass is half empty. The glass is always half full. But I remember I lived with a lady and she's sadly no longer with us, but she had this house, she'd paid for it, but she needed company. and I thought I'm going to live with her this is while I was on you know I lived with her just before CBBC and then when I got my job I stayed and you know it was nominal she just wanted company and I saved every penny oh wow so it was as if I was back at home living with and she'd be like why are you coming back you know she used to tell me off I was just like do you know I'm going to sacrifice even at Otis who I did shortchange with, he would be like, Jelly, at the time he'd be like, Jelly, come on, what are you doing, man?

35:13Let's get a place. Let's go, you know, let's go. I'm like, nah, I'm saving my coin.

35:21And that's how I had this job. I was saving my money and I was just learning new skills. So we do the afternoon. It was, like I was saying, it was like school. And then we'd sit down with the producer and they'd be like, okay, let's talk about, you'd look back on your tapes to look at yourself. How could you do that better? It was proper learning your trade. Why did you say that? We don't say that. How could you have said that better? How are you standing? Because I can stand and present and just be still. Where some people can't do that. But that's because you used to watch yourself back. No one likes hearing themselves or watching themselves back.

35:59It's just like cringe, isn't it? But that's what we had to do every day. So you're critiquing yourself.

36:06Mo Gilligan: It reminds me a little bit of like the process of drama school in some ways. Yeah. Friends have gone drama school and how heavily they're critiqued on acting is like such a brutal crash course in learning a trade that, you know, friends of mine who have gone to some drama schools and they're like, bro, like for days I will come back crying because I didn't think I was good enough. but now I'm the best actor I can be because I went through a process that was so detrimental for my mental health that it made me stronger and I think if I would have went into acting straight away I would have just crumbled because I didn't have that resilience you do build up yeah yeah yeah yeah 100 % because there were sometimes you just inside you're like I am rubbish not that anyone said that to me but if you're having someone tell you how you can be better or critiquing you that's what you think you know you second guess yourself that training was invaluable every day watching yourself back watching the tapes we also had to watch all the shows before they went out we'd have to come in so i'd go on at 3 25 whatever but i was in at 10 watching every single program before we went out on air the whole thing the whole thing oh right not even like a quick highlight or no just skimming through fast forward none of that oh raw yeah and that's interesting in itself because that meant say the show the take you know something happened with Network and you're in the middle of the show and it came off air you could be like you could almost fill in the gaps I remember there was a time when there was a I think it was the Twin Towers and in one of the programs there was something that could have been triggering And if we hadn't watched that show, we couldn't have flagged that and they could have changed the episode.

38:03Yes, yeah, yeah.

38:05Mo Gilligan: So, you know, there was method behind the madness. Yeah, yeah. Even though at the time you'd be like, oh, gosh, I've got to watch these things. But again, it was going back to taking the responsibility, you know, for your audience to make sure you knew what they were seeing so you could flag anything if you needed and just be across it so that you didn't look silly on TV. So you're right. it's building those defences those walls of resilience to overcome anything thrown at you especially with live TV and also because all eyes are on you yeah if it goes left you'll be the one well no one's remembering the producer no one cares about the producer's name yeah yeah you'll be the one that gets blamed yeah why did she say this on TV yeah and you're like I'm just reading autocue you know yeah can I say there was no autocue with me though you didn't do autocue on CBBC you had no autocue really no oh my god so you you just had to look down the barrel down the barrel and wing it is it yeah so I'm guessing you had notes though or anything like cue cards and stuff no cue cards we had a bare script and it depends who you presented with how much script there was I I know some producers even now are messaging me say we didn't really write much because you used to see or I'd rehearsed yeah And depending who I was working with, I'd just say anything.

39:28But that's how you got the laughs. Okay. Just springing things on your co-presenters and stuff. I see. Okay. But I always knew what we were coming out of, what we had to plug. If there's a competition, what we had to get across. And the show, the next show.

39:45Mo Gilligan: Yeah. So I always knew the arc. I didn't know how to get there in that time. Yeah. So even if I was just being a bit silly or we were coopsing You all make each other laugh. I feel like children's presenting is such a, because you don't have the luxury of going off the cuff. You can't say anything that might be a bit, oh, they said this, or you can't swear. It's such a skill as a children's presenter because one, you are the face that some kids disconnect from, you know, school, what's going on in their life. And they're like, for this, you know, for some kids as well, it'll be a treat. Like after your homework, you get to watch TV.

40:28Mo Gilligan: And there'd be some kids who was like, I had a miserable day at school, but I know I'm going to go and watch CBBC. And these are like my friends. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Do you know how many people now have come up to me on the train? I'll be on the train, walking in the street, in my pyjamas in the Sainsbury's. Yeah. Come up to me and be like, oh my gosh, I used to run home. after school to watch you. And I'm like, really? And they're like, yeah. Just, you made me laugh. You made me smile. And when I presented, to get over it, because sometimes I'd be thinking, what am I doing? This is nuts.

41:12I'm talking to a camera. Whenever I'd think like that, I'd make a mistake. I had to just be like, right, that camera is one person. and I used to say to the camera in my head I'm talking to one child sitting in their home watching me now and they're my mate exactly what you said and we're going to have a laugh and I had to do that for my own sanity because it was quite overwhelming but I also wanted whoever, you know, Johnny Michelle, whoever was watching me to enjoy the best two and a half hours of their day.

41:51Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah. And that's why I would laugh a lot because I wanted people to know that I was enjoying it. I wasn't just there for the money or just to fill the time. Yeah, yeah. I was there because this is good. Yeah, yeah. And these shows are brilliant. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Did you ever have any knockbacks? I guess not so much knockbacks, but I guess in terms of, like you're saying, you'd be critiqued a lot. on what you're doing was there ever any knockbacks or gatekeepers in the sense of when you wanted to break out from the mold of being a a presenter on CBBC and you're like I want to break out and I want to do this now you know did you ever find that in your career early on yeah I did when CBBC was amazing and I think it was ahead of its time in terms of diversity and giving people opportunities because if you look at the stable of incredible presenters there who are still my friends and are brilliant.

42:53Mo Gilligan: They're still on TV now. Still on TV. Yeah. Still doing their thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just think, oh my gosh, it was a great place, a learning curve. But to get out, it wasn't level for everyone.

43:10And, you know, they were champions. I had amazing champions, but sometimes they'd say, you know, you know it's you're not the right fit or you know I used to get a lot you're just a bit too CBBC too smiley and I'm like that's me but also if you're produced you don't smile as well that's what I was you know I remember once I was filming for a show and the producer you know I think I'd got onto the one show at this point. So I was doing little VTs for them. But anyway, I was making this film. And the producer said, could you do that again? But be less urban.

43:57And inside, I crumbled. But I had to, and this maybe goes back to the resilience thing,

44:07Mo Gilligan: I had to find something to just be in the moment. so I said what do you mean you know help me what do you mean what do you mean by less urban just you know just less urban so in that moment I was like this person doesn't know what they're talking about yeah so I said well this is how I usually do it you know I was already working on the one show and they was like no we did it again and then we were fine we went through the day and the whole day I felt awful there was a break in between filming and I was filming with this person again that's fine but to this person's credit they came up to me and they said do you know what I need to apologise to you because the camera was still rolling so they went back to edit and they saw themselves say that that made me feel better I didn't have to bring that to the table they had to see it for themselves and hear themselves say that But I know it was a different time because it was, you know, I was told you're great, but we will never put a black person on primetime television.

45:21And that's why when I say when I see you and I will say that again, it's amazing. You say you watched me and it gave you hope. But I watch you and I will say that again because I thought I would never make it on primetime TV. But I kept going, you know, and I didn't let those negative thoughts, negative comments. And I think some of those people thought they were doing me a service, telling me this is how it is. Rejections came all the time.

45:55Mo Gilligan: I was rarely first choice, but I was still there. So it goes back to the glass is always half full. I was still there. I was still in the running. I think sometimes that's almost more powerful to sometimes still be invited to have the conversation or the meeting or that you're like, oh, yeah, we thought of you for this project. And sometimes, you know, where you could be in a position where you're like, oh, that's great. Like, thanks for having me in. You can even say, great, you brought me in. I know I wasn't the one you wanted, but also I don't think this is the right thing for me. but I do appreciate you bringing me in and you might see someone do the job and you're like oh look they found a person I knew I wasn't that person exactly and also you what's right if he always comes to you so I'd never get stressed but it is powerful Mo and I think you've hit the nail on the head with something but also in another way because sometimes when you're not first choice you've got less pressure and I don't take it personally you can't take things personally because sometimes the people making the decision don't even know what they want themselves But when I've known I'm not first choice, I'm just like, yeah, come on.

47:07I am going to make you realise. You should have come knocking to me first.

47:16Mo Gilligan: Yeah, I know you think. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, I know you wanted someone else, but you've got me. And then you absolutely smash it. Smash it. And then they go, what are we going to do now? Exactly. Or they start saying, yeah, I wanted her in the first place. You know, whatever.

47:37Mo Gilligan: because now in terms of like you know you are a front facing face on our television screens you know everybody the one show you know you fronted things like the chelsea flower show um there is you know that the martin lewis money show do you know i mean these are shows that are like prime time sitting down i have you know my dinner and you are the face that comes on i don't we're We're not talking like, because sometimes it could be like, oh, prime time, 10 o 'clock. And it's like, you're still, even I didn't know that when I had a show at 10 o 'clock, there's some people like, yeah, no, I go to bed at nine.

48:11Mo Gilligan: I'm like, what on a Friday? You go to bed at nine o 'clock. But like six o 'clock, when I started realizing TV is that that six to eight period is like, no, this is real tea time, prime time. You know, when you think of like, not the London mentality of like, oh, people work till seven. yeah but like out of london where you're like yeah the corner shop closes at i don't know eight eight o 'clock and it's like yeah no no we're gonna watch the martin lewis money show because i want to know about how to save my money when it comes to energy bills and stuff and again it's like it it takes the notion of you know you're you're down the barrel talking to someone who is genuinely like I'm struggling to pay my bills and this is someone that I recognized from my childhood and now I'm an adult and I'm going to listen to your advice and hold on to it and take it into action how does it feel now where you are in your career do you feel that you are probably more comfortable where you can go on like a master chef congratulations obviously winning it and stuff thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you sir I didn't have to mention it myself but but do you feel like more comfortable that now that tv has changed somewhat that you can like i can be my true self and i can do different bits of tv that i can show myself cooking i can be a presenter that i can be comfortable or is it i i can't be comfortable because i want i want the next thing does that make sense yeah no totally i think now i'm so comfortable.

49:50Yes, it's taken time. Well, it took time because one, you're in your 20s, you're trying to work yourself out full stop in life.

49:58Mo Gilligan: Yeah. But also because I think there was a sense that I had to be grateful. When did that stop? When did you say, I'm not lucky. I'm blessed. Because I'd done the same thing once. I got a show. I said, I'm really lucky, man. Someone said, never say that. Never. Never say you're lucky because you didn't win in a competition. Yes, you are blessed. You have a talent that God has given you, but you're not lucky. You didn't win a competition. You are meant to be where you are. When was that for you? I remember my boss on the one show. Maybe that was like 15 years ago. Not that it happened then, but, you know, the seed.

50:48and he rang me up I was filming I was filming in Bristol actually I got off the train and he rang me up about something and I always had to do I always did this thing some of the times when my bosses ring me I ring up they ring me up and I see their number come up and I go what have I done wrong I'd automatically think no one why is there not ringing me they only ring me because I've done something wrong and my boss was like stop saying that and he goes stop saying that and then he was talking about some job and I was like he goes I want you to cover more on the sofa blah blah blah and he just went to me stop being so grateful Belle own it and it really took me by surprise you know like someone being that direct because sometimes in media you know people just chat rubbish and I remember I thought about that I was like actually I've drafted all that training sitting there watching myself back you know was that in vain and also I wouldn't be getting those jobs if somebody didn't believe in me and then I just started thinking you know come on now you've got to remember as well like we said CBBC I had to be myself what I love about a children's audience is they see the whites of your eyes they don't suffer fools they can see it if they know what they like they know what they don't like and I love that because it's not it's not rude it's just like nah or you get a letter to say you know we preferred that when you did that I remember I did 50-50 once and we used to film that in Scotland and I loved the schools I had to sit with the schools and chat with them bad boy show man Bad boy.

52:14Mo Gilligan: I always wanted to go to that and my school, man. Listen, that was a G school. And I remember a girl going to me, are you going to wear that for this recording? And I was like, yeah, do you like it? No. You look better in colour. So I said, should I change this top? And I'm like, yeah. So I went and changed the top. Came back, I was like, what do you think? I like it much better. It's not rude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She wanted me to look brilliant on 50-50, which she was going to be on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Whereas if an adult said it, you're like, yeah. I'll tell you, can you believe what they just said?

52:47And we're like, here we are, peep, peep, peep. And in the first line, you're making a mistake. And I just thought, yeah, I've got to own it. There'll always be people in life who like you, who don't like you, whatever. But you've just got to bring yourself.

53:03Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah. So I think that was a seed. And the more I sat on the sofa on the one show, or did other shows, the Chess Flower show, whatever, ever worked on any show the more i could just be like hey it's me that's one of the reasons why i did celebic brother this year because i just wanted to be free yeah no scripts no earpiece no open talk back did it feel like when you went on a show like that it was like finally that i can be like my authentic self yeah i'm not my presenter self yes my cbbc self is that i can just be self a lot of people haven't seen self before yep just self, enjoying life no drama, I don't do drama I just want to have a good time half of that as well because I have had friends who've sadly passed away way too soon and I live my life very much as if we're sitting here now, you can see me you've got my energy, you've looked me in the eye if I were to die tomorrow you know that I died happy yeah yeah yeah yeah and that's how I want you to remember me that's how I want people on TV to remember that's how I want my family to remember me she lives the best life I wake up every day and I'm like this is me but that's why I want people on TV to see that as well and that's why I loved that sort of experience where it was just real I guess it must be like you're saying with you being comfortable now it must allow you to have a flexibility of going on a Big Brother or MasterChef or you know you went to the Arctic as well for like five weeks you know you raised a lot of money with sport relief over a million pounds for sport relief there must be a flexibility that's quite nice the minute you get to feel a bit more comfortable do you know what I mean it's like once you sit in a sofa and you say this is alright but if I pop this pillow up and then like this way I can put my feet up and it's even more comfortable yeah are you are you at a stage now in your career where you want to push the boundaries in some ways as well that's like going on things like celebrity big brother yeah I remember the beginning of the year it was a bit of a shock to be like oh my gosh I started on cbc 25 years ago I like writing like I say I like goals and one of my goals was I just wrote I'm ready I'm ready yeah so some of the jobs that eluded me before they weren't right for me then because I wasn't ready so now I'm like let's do this yeah maybe this is why I'm on the podcast now yeah yeah that was timing as well it was just like I was here and you was here for two completely different things I'm not even one of those like business people that's like oh what would I was like I'd love to have you on the podcast like that's a no-brainer the minute he was like yeah let's do it i was like right you're like okay all right cool let's yeah because i used to always very much hold back in a sense of like well did you yeah because i'd want to be professional and be like oh i'd love to get in a pod but like do it for your management because i don't want to feel like it feels like you must say yes now because we're in the same place do you know what i mean but do you we've chatted today do i look like someone who would do something they wouldn't want to do no but i think with having anyone's time as much as like sometimes it's easier to say yes because it feels less uncomfortable because you could just say look I just don't do podcasts I've met people that's like look don't do podcasts I don't do podcasts yeah no no but there's some people I've asked like do you want to come and they said bro I just don't do podcasts you know right and I'm like and I get that and there are some people that will say yeah yeah yeah I'll jump on man yeah yeah cool oh cool well listen I'll get them to shout your management and then we'll do it that way just so it feels professional and it's almost like, yeah, no, no, no, they've said no.

57:10It's so funny about the money. I know, that's awkward. I can see that hashtag. And it's all right,

57:16Mo Gilligan: but I'm always like, okay, let me do this professionally and properly. Do you know what I mean? But I just feel like you come from a time where it's just like, yeah, let's call, let's do the thing. And all right, just cool. If you want to shout my person or I'll give you my number, cool. I've met a lot of people that have been in the broadcast and entertainment industry who've, like people have done it for a long time. I like, yeah, cool man, take my number. Cool, let's just, you're the producer? Cool. Whereas I think there's a new, and I'd probably include myself in that where it's just like, okay, cool, well, this probably has to be done professionally.

57:50Mo Gilligan: I'm not trying to be a diva, but probably do it through the manager. Right. Then it just, it just works. Do you know what I mean? Okay, so this is a really interesting thing you've touched on here because I have not had an agent for years. Really?

58:06Wow.

58:08Mo Gilligan: No one gets the commission. Yeah, man. 100 % for me. Yeah. No commission. Yeah, I've managed myself. When I got my job on CBBC, my life changed. And one of the things I said to myself was, I need to remember who I am, my roots and stay connected. Yeah. Listen, people, I want people, if they see me anywhere to feel that they can come up to me and chat. Because at the end of the day, it's those people who were kind and invested in me and showed me love. That means I'm still here. Yeah. So that's how I've always wanted to roll. now I haven't had an agent for a long time that's for different reasons but you know there was a time where I was not making money so CBBC was great you know I was a face rolling contracts do all the shows short change 50 50 I'll do not everything and then making that transition was really difficult and the hustle was real and there was a time where I was like I'm gonna have to sell the house i wasn't afraid because i was like i've been blessed i had a good run i didn't know this was going to be for me it's happened you know i've done it for a good few years and the people representing me at the time i just thought i don't want to put that baggage on them yeah so if i'm gonna have to change course change jobs it has to be because of me it has to be because i didn't couldn't get the work if you've got someone a middleman there you'll always have to blame you can only blame them yeah yeah so i was on my knees and i thought right as soon as that happened and i was in control it started moving started moving though for me because i think i had the fight i was like i don't want to do that yeah it's fight or flight isn't it right i'm like yeah here this is me it's harder for somebody to say no to my face than it is to an agent or a middle man so I think I got more shots because they were like actually Angelica she's alright she's quite funny do you know what I mean because they saw me and you just go straight to the person listen yeah and also I always say listen I don't mind just get back to me if I'm not right right time most of the time they'll be like actually something's come up message me can you do this can you come fill in and it started moving I want people to make me direct and ask me I want people to I guess you also have the pleasure of being in the business for over like 25 years so you you know how it works yeah you know I remember when I was at the peak of my career that you know you asked to do all sorts of things and it is difficult because you want to help loads of people yeah you're on another level you do need to have that barrier and protection mode and you shouldn't feel bad for that.

1:01:09Mo Gilligan: Oh no, definitely not. You know, but I'm saying it for you because if anyone is saying, you know, you can't get access or whatever. There's a reason for that. You're another level. You know, that's not because you don't want to be, have that connection with people. You've got to protect yourself.

1:01:27Do you know what I mean? Literally.

1:01:35i'm just saying it for you so anyone listening i'm saying it for you yeah i think i think as

1:01:40Mo Gilligan: well i think for me my my relationship especially with my managers it's we've been we built each other up does that make sense yeah where it's it's a it's a relationship of you know it's not you work for me and how come I didn't get that job. It's never that. It's always looked up. I look at every job I do as a partnership. So it's like, this is a partnership. If I go into this job, I know I'm the front facing thing of this job and it goes left, it's a partnership. We rise up together, we fall together. But that's what the partnership is about. And that's a healthy partnership. It has to be. Partnerships in any walk of life have to be based on that.

1:02:22Otherwise, it's just going to fracture.

1:02:24Mo Gilligan: Yeah, and I think that's why I think when I was able to do television, I was always concentrated on like, cool, how can we collab with this? And knowing that what even, you know, you're like, oh, cool, there's this production company and they're going to work with another one. And that seems great because you've got two amazing people from two production companies going to come together to make this thing. like if it's successful cool if it's not it's all right but we brought like the the best of i don't know the best of a doctor and a dentist together all right like he might not be able to do open heart surgery but he might say hey you know what like in the environment of some of our patients we play a bit of like classical music it really calms them down you know i never thought of doing that and i think once i seen the power of collaboration i was like okay cool that's that's how this thing works yeah because everyone tells you oh you gotta play the game gotta play the game you're like what's that i don't get that what's that what's the game because in my head i'm like is that what is that like a tap dancing thing or what and then you're like oh i get how this person makes a film with that person and they've done 10 films and you're like oh because they collabed and now they're bredgins and they're like listen i want to make a hollywood film and who do i trust to have an actor on screen is i don't know how it works leonardo we work together.

1:03:46Mo Gilligan: Mark's called Stacey, you made let's do that again. And once you start realising that, you're like, oh the power of collaboration. 100%. You bring that expertise over here, that expertise over there, and it brings together. And I think that's why you know, I've lasted because sometimes it is give and take. And it's, you know, people I've worked with they're like, I'm working on something, haven't got much money. And I think about it, I'm like, actually, I'm not doing it for them, I'm doing it for you. But also, I think it will help me. Yeah. Tutus, then other running companies asking me to do things.

1:04:21Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah.

1:04:27Mo Gilligan: Do you know what I mean? It's blowing my mind here. You'd be like, tutus, now running companies.

1:04:38Mo Gilligan: I need to hear this on the one show next year. and we've got Tutu's girls in Berkshire right around the VT's and then Tutu's we're going to go to a live OB over there

1:04:54Mo Gilligan: but like you know like in terms of as a broadcaster presenter you know there's so many people that will be listening to this episode and watching it who are maybe behind the screen or they're in front of the screen and you've done so many things that are front facing to the point where now where you are in your career you're like oh like i feel quite comfortable i feel like i can pick and choose what i want to do but also show a side of myself you know there'll be some people listening to this and they're like right i didn't know angelica said tutus you know like because that for them feels like oh like yeah like you're from like you're from london like you're you're you are part of the culture and yeah like you are the person that i grew up because i think sometimes there can be a mister of facade like where you know people say to me like oh you're from south mo i'm like yeah whereabouts inside even somewhere nice in it i said no bro grew up in campwell and peckham bro really yeah how come you never got into any badness i'm like because i just didn't i just it wasn't about that life not everyone does exactly you know i mean but i think it's like that i think when you do tv tv there can be this mist or you know oh i wonder what they're oh what they're really like yeah do you know what you that's something that's so interesting as well i've never been asked this i used to feel like i had an alter ego and i was leading a double life yeah and it didn't used to sit easy with me because i like getting bush going to occhi get my Caribbean food my West Indian food I like going out you know running out of the place I love it but you don't see that and sometimes I'll be like am I being my true self am I fitting a mould maybe maybe I was moulded to a certain extent to sit in a space and you know people say you're very different you know in real life but like you said I feel now it's those two different personas are coming together.

1:07:01Mo Gilligan: Yeah. But I think if I had pushed against it or be like, no, I'm not saying that or not spoke, because people say, oh, you're quite posh. You know, I just know. He's laughing. He's like, yeah, I saw her out in the car. I can get that to this day. If I say a big word, people are like, oh, you're quite posh, isn't it? It's no big words, bro. I'm not posh. I'm just like, when I spoke to my gran, I spoke well I didn't speak to my grandma the way I speak to my brethren when I go into a shop if I need something I speak polite so I get good service when I'm speaking to Michael I'm running him do you know what I mean I'm like so when I'm on the BBC when I'm speaking I wanted to speak well sometimes people might be like what's she really like you know like missy elliot i'm like oh my gosh i love all different things like a bit classical like this like that i like being broad and having broad interests there's nothing wrong with that and i think i've had to sit easy with that as well now now i'm like actually if i want to get my freak on with missy elliot i will yeah yeah but then if i just want to go down and you know listen to a bit Mozart why not yeah yeah 100 % they they they live in the same space it's music innit it's music I know you mean yeah yeah so now I'm like this isn't him in our business

1:08:40Mo Gilligan: I can't wait till the next time you ever do heart radio or classic FM and now we are going to be listening to Handel's Messiah

1:08:54Mo Gilligan: run the ting steve run the ting bruv play it now oh man rewind how do you how do you start looking towards you know like the the latter part of your career in some ways of like your ends because come from very humble beginnings you know i meanst lucian parents and you know you you've done those front-facing jobs of like giving out newspapers working at mcdonald's to you know building yourself up which everyone says you know you've got start off somewhere big breakfast children's tv to then be in a front face presenter on our television screen so now you're at a point where you can be comfortable and if you want to go to the arctic to raise loads of money you can do that but if you want to go and celebrate big brother that's that's still good to do because you're like well i just want to show my original self it's just a bit of a vibe and yeah, I just want to be on TV.

1:09:47Mo Gilligan: Do you know what I mean? But how do you look at like your future in some ways? And, you know, there's so many. One, it's like, you know, you're a face within television as a presenter that's on mainstream TV. But it's like I was saying, within the black community, it's like, rah, like Angelica Bell. Yeah, I grew up watching her, you know, as a kid. Do you know what I mean? and there'll be so many people that want to get into this industry and you will be the blueprint to follow so how do you start looking towards how you want like your legacy to be shaped as you kind of get as you get older in some ways you know i always think when you have opportunities given to you've been blessed you should put things back in And that's not a cliche.

1:10:39That's me, but I think you should. And I've got better at talking and realizing some things that happen to you in life or things that people say to you, it is what it is. And it's how you make that into something positive, mold it into something positive and share that. So I become more vocal, try and give advice. The younger generation need role models.

1:11:05Mo Gilligan: Yeah. You, whether it's me, you know, everyone. Yeah. So I'm always open, you know, to give advice, talk in schools and stuff. I love young people. Yeah, yeah. And they really remember things as well. Yeah. People forget if you go into someone's school. Oh my gosh. Because that's also a lesson off. Listen, I went and doing a job the other week. there's a group of girls there and they're like oh I've got came to fame with yours I've got came to fame with you were involved in it I said what's that you came to my school when you were on CBBC oh wow and spoke to my school yeah and I'll never forget that wow I was like wow because most of the time it doesn't matter what walk of life you're from you can have an impact on somebody you don't need to be famous but just saying something giving someone time giving them a hook up to help them because remember there's enough food at the table for everyone it's a buffet it's a buffet I don't understand why some people are eating all the chicken for themselves but let's be honest if you're at a party and you're sitting there in the corner with your plate of food being like yeah I got the nicest pieces of chicken and no one it's like bro you don't it's not really a vibe you know it's not a vibe you're eating by yourself you can't tell people how good the food is just come come over here man yeah sit down let's eat yeah i love it yeah man so it's about sharing your story sharing your experiences helping people celebrating people's wins yeah i love it it gives me joy i'm sitting there i'm at home looking at people We're going, look at them.

1:12:51Mo Gilligan: I love it. You know, this year I was given an honorary doctorate this year. Oh, congratulations. I was like, no, I'm not saying congratulations. I was like, shot. I was like, whoa. But again, optics. I always say this to people about optics. Whatever you think about yourself or how you feel, most of the time it's not how other people view you. And you can't control anything but yourself. You roll with it. You celebrate yourself. you just say to do you say so i'm i'm great i'm good oh yeah yeah before i jump on stage yeah you've got to say that say it out loud yeah i've worked hard i deserve to be i deserve this space it's very very important like i'm i'm big into law of attraction and putting it out to the universe but also i think it's very important for people to say good things about themselves and it's not this whole oh i'm i've got an ego or i'm saying this it's like no no like we say more negative things to ourself and we can relate to the negative of exactly i'm not really good at this you know and we're used to hearing that to ourselves as opposed to saying no i'm really good at this and i'm smashing this live interview i'm smashing this this read or whatever it is that you're doing yeah it's saying that out loud to yourself and there's nothing narcissistic about that it's just about celebrating yourselves and your achievements and that way then you can help other people.

1:14:14Mo Gilligan: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Most definitely. When you're in a good space, you're able to help others and your energy exudes to others. And you carry people along with that. Yeah. I feel really passionate about that. And I guess with being at ease with myself, there's not that need to necessarily, I don't need to be really famous. I don't need to be earning loads and loads of money. I just need to be happy and ensuring that I'm pulling other people up in the way I can. oh angelica man this is this has been such a vibe man this is probably one of my favorite episodes i promise you i'm not saying that to say it but it's such a pleasure one having you on the pod and just speaking to you like away from you know television in the sense of like just passing through and you're like hey was that yeah action um yeah you're such a credit to television in the sense of there is people from like my age group that would have watched you on television but then the way that you've been able to cross over and transcend and I think one thing I started to realize of once I was able to be on let's say television as such is one thing getting there but it's like sustaining it and it's only until you meet people and you hear of the hardships of what it was like when they first started or you know where they are now and like for example you saying now i feel comfortable you know and you like some of us would never have thought that because you're like oh right like you've been doing this 30 years must be must be well comfortable you've got an ass you're living like no but there's it's like everyone wants to go into work and feel like they're appreciated but you also want to go into work and know that when i have lunch and have lunch i can still sit there and feel like yeah like people want to sit next to me and they hear what i've got to say when the lights aren't on yeah cameras aren't on do you know what i mean yeah exactly and yeah no i think you're you're a massive credit to that and yeah it's it's nice to see you in this space now and you say like yeah like i just i just want to be comfortable can i just say i've loved it oh thank you so much man i've loved you having have this coming in the pocket I really really appreciate it I remember when I saw you at the NTAs I literally was fanning you going I can have a picture with you I swear and you stopped you had a picture with me do you know what's mad because when I used to go to any of those events back in the day I used to be mad shy so I'd meet people and I'd want to fan out and be like yo I used to watch you as a kid like I really but also I'd be like in a bubble because I think when I went to a lot of those events I was like am I ever going to come back?

1:16:55Mo Gilligan: I don't know, you know. Really? I just wanted to compose myself. Yeah. Because everyone, normally it's like you go to those things and everyone's a bit cool and also knowing I was looking around the room and I was like, I don't really know anyone here, but there's no one I feel like I can connect to that looks like me or sounds like, and nobody, also I'm at this weird juxtaposition where you're like, oh, you've done a bit online, a little bit of TV, kind of know you, but I don't know you enough. and but i want to say hi but i don't i don't know in it and i think you know it's really weird actually about that is because i remember going to that and there was a few actors and people behind the camera and it was oh we're going to do a picture the stairs we're going to meet the stairs um all the black and asian talent was like we're going to do a picture i'm going to do this picture and i missed the picture and i was like raw man like didn't get to be in the picture because in my head I was thinking it's going to be like an iconic picture and everyone looks back at it 10 years time and I was like I might never come back here again and I always said to myself if I come back I'm going to really just enjoy just being here so if I see someone and I want to say hey how are you love to meet you big fan I'm going to make sure I do that but then also I think the next time I did get to go to the BAFTAs I was like cool I'm going to do a big after party for all the people that don't get to come.

1:18:19Mo Gilligan: Right. That was like, I was like, I might just win this once, but I want to make sure that everyone who's here doesn't feel like how I felt. Right. And can I just say, so you had the table and I remember Judy Love coming up to me. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was wearing a yellow amazing dress, I think. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she's like, babe, you're coming with me to Mo's party. Ah, yeah, yeah. And I went, Mo's having a party. right? And she's like, yeah, he's having a party and you're coming. I said, nah, I'm not coming. I'm not invited. What? No, no, no. I'm just telling you what happened.

1:18:54Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's like, Mo would want you there.

1:18:58Mo Gilligan: I swear to you, 100%. And I was like, nah, he doesn't even know who I am, man. I said, I'm not going. She's like, come. I said, nah, nah. And she went to the party. She kept messaging me, come, come. I didn't go. You see the pictures afterwards, isn't it yeah I was vexed I was vexed but what I was screwing man I'm like I should have gone to that damn party the party was a but I don't want to be no but this goes back to what you were saying in when at these events I'm usually a plus one no I'm not invited I'm a plus one no no no so I'm going there the same you're I'm thinking exactly the same thing as you like oh my gosh I might not ever be invited to this thing again so I'm just gonna keep it low key I'm not going to be pushing myself at Mo Gilligan's party yeah nah so that so it's and so this goes back to the optics of how we see ourselves I'm seeing you going oh my gosh I'm in the same space you're seeing me going oh my gosh I'm in the same space but we're not saying that yeah yeah yeah yeah it's mad that isn't it because you know what's mad you know what also I've done it is because I remember meeting Rio Ferdinand oh my gosh I love Rio and Rio said to me he's like oh when we do our PFA event or something and he said yeah like Andy Cole would do his own party and it would be all like the black players and they have their own party upstairs and he was like yeah we'd have our own thing like this would be our thing innit and it's not to I always like look it's not to exclude anyone that's not what it is but it's making sure that there's someone who worked behind the scenes on a project who is going to go on stage and accept an award and be like, I stand at the back because I don't really, you know.

1:20:46Mo Gilligan: And it's like, bro, you was a producer on that, you know. You're part of it. You played a part in it. That wouldn't be winning if you weren't there. But it's also for that person behind the camera to then be like, oh yeah, well, listen, man, it's lovely because they don't know, am I going to go back on the next project? Yeah. I don't know, I'm not sure. But enjoy that night enough to be like, hey yeah what's good my guy you're right yeah yeah cool are you going mo's yeah and then oh can we come and him feel like now it's like oh i don't i don't know you know but i know i can go and i think that was what it was always about it's really making our see our culture feel felt seen at the biggest event for for some people even for myself i was like i might win i might not if I win it's going to be the best party ever if I don't it's still going to be the best party ever and I'm going to be surrounded by people that even next year there's a thing it's like oh great you're a direct I didn't know that bro nice to meet you man listen I've got this let's work man let's connect and I think that's what it was always about the connections and people knowing because sometimes you don't know who's in the industry you have no idea you have no idea and you're all in the same space so I love that Rio's a good person I remember I met Rio before I got my CBBC job and I think was he still at West Ham?

1:22:07Yeah I think he was or Leeds whatever he hadn't gone to Leeds yet anyway he's like what are you doing what are you doing and I was like yeah I'm up for this job you know maybe do some TV because I think I'd heard of it he's like you're going to get the job and I had a book and I said can I have your autograph he's signed my book I've still got the book he's signed oh really and then I interviewed him on CBBC and he goes I remember you

1:22:28Mo Gilligan: when I met you look at you and he did the interview because it was me yeah yeah and then I bumped into him on a plane he's like I'm still following you I'm still checking you I love that yeah big up real that's what I'm saying Peckham it's a South London thing you know I'll give you that I'll give you that I'll give you that but it's been a pleasure to have you on the pod Angelica and this has been your beginning middle and end thank you very much thank you hey what's up thank you so much for listening to the podcast today now a lot goes in to making each episode. I know you hear my voice, but there's a team behind the scenes who helped make it.

1:23:05Mo Gilligan: And if you did enjoy it, I'd really, really appreciate if you could show the love to them by giving us five stars. And if you also have the time, please leave us a review. It's always appreciated and we love reading the comments. And of course, we want to keep making it better. Thank you for listening and have a great day. Peace.