TV Stand Up Comedian Emmanuel Sonubi

0:00Mo Gilligan: Hey, what's happening people? My name is Mo Gilligan and this is the Beginning, Middle and End podcast. Now this is where I'm going to be asking some of my favourite people about how they started, where they are now and the legacy they want to leave. Now my guest this week is trained in musical theatre and also starred in the West End's Daddy Cool. He worked as a nightclub bouncer for many, many years and then went on to an open mic rookie at the Comedy Store winning the Gong Show to Edinburgh nominated headliner and international performer performing at Austria, New York and Montreal to be exact.

0:38Mo Gilligan: Now, this episode, he tells his amazing story of how he literally nearly died on stage and how that experience has shaped his new life goal. please welcome to the podcast Emmanuel Sanudi thank you so much for doing the pod man I really appreciate you doing the pod bro I'm a big fan man you're set at Apollo where you talk about being what is it again? where you say you was about to yeah I was banging Jim that bruv you know how many people have been Jim hey bruv it's one comedy you know comedy right you see my man I said yeah yeah you know him I was like I know of him I feel like we're black so we just know each other but bro yeah man very very funny man that's it and uh so that's I don't make stuff up so that's pretty much exactly what happened with my friend Leon yeah and it was the first night we worked with him it was like we had this new club and it was in Loughton so proper Essex boys and we took this club over because the door team were put it this way people were doing coke on the bar.

1:48Mo Gilligan: Oh, shit. Not even bothering going to the toilet. Oh, boy. I was like, if I'm coming down here. No, have some class, man. Yeah. So I was like, if I'm coming down here, I'm coming down with my people. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So me and my mate Phil went down there and then we put the feeders out to a couple other people. I was like, who can we trust to come down with us? It's my pal Leon. Leon's from South as well. And Leon crashed up because Leon's like proper yard man. You know what I mean? But he's, but he was a primary school teacher as well so he stayed so calm and he had such good patience but as soon as that temper went the yard come out and it was hilarious and then he was standing talking to one of his pals and he'd just gone yeah yeah you still banging Jim like what what was that and it just and we just stood there laughing at it and it just stuck and that's the thing like with it's one of those stories where they're my favourite because you haven't got to change nothing yeah yeah yeah yeah because you know it's like with comedy there'll be sometimes you'll add a little season on something just to make it you know you get make it a little pop yeah and this is why I'm just gonna literally wrote this down the amount of times something's happened I was like right where's I need to write a voice I need to write a voice bro I got hit by a car right when was this about a year ago yeah and literally I was like I've got to find my notebook this is hilarious because I came in I was like I've just been hit by a car they're like you alright I said yeah I'm fine the car's fucked.

3:15Mo Gilligan: It's how you find the humour in the stuff that is dark where you're like I could have really got hurt you know but this is going to give me a good 15 minute bit. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I've done that before. There's loads of bits and it's hard to take that situation seriously because in your mind you're already on stage telling the joke. Yeah. It's fucked as a comedian because we kind of look for that the tragedy to happen but also knowing that you're like it is tragedy. I can turn it into joy but I do need some drama going on. Do you know what I mean? I need a little something. When life is getting a bit I'm like, I need to spice it up, man.

3:57There's times I find myself following my kids around going, can you just fall over? You're being selfish, aren't you? Just do something. And the way I describe it, I heard this photographer say this. He was like, I don't see life how it is. I see life how I would take a picture of it. And it's the same for us where I don't see life how it is anymore. I see how I would tell it as a joke on stage. Yeah, man. So it's kind of hard to take everything seriously. But then the stuff that I don't find fun that I do take serious is the one that will hit home more and takes a lot more to then go right about.

4:34Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, of course. I met you very briefly in Edinburgh. I don't know if you remember this. This, yeah, it was a couple of years ago. This was the first time. Yes, yeah, yeah. Joe, this is only the third time we've met. The third time? This is the third time. We did Edinburgh. No, it was Edinburgh. I met you in Edinburgh. And then Backyard, what's it called? Comedy Club. Backyard? No, no, Up The Creek. You did a, you did a, you were hosting a show and I came down and did 10 minutes. I was there for like 20 minutes. I don't remember that, you know? That hurts. Sorry, bro, I'm not going to, I'm one of them people, I can't hide my, You know some people are like, yeah, of course, man.

5:14Mo Gilligan: Because you'll be like, what do you think of my set that day? And I'm like, oh. I've got a picture of us two. I've read it down in my journal. At the creek? Me and Mo met today. No way. He said we're like brothers. He promised he'd call. This is at the creek? Yeah. This was ages ago. Wait, no. Hold on. Wait, wait. Did I have a high top? No. No? Short hair? Yeah. Fuck. I'm sorry, man. I'm sorry, man. I'll be real, man. I can't remember. I was literally there for about 20 minutes. This is a while ago. Yeah. This is a good couple of years ago. I found on my phone because I kept it. It's on my Insta.

5:56It was definitely a couple of years ago, but I was there for like 20 minutes.

6:00Mo Gilligan: Where did we take the picture? Upstairs or downstairs? Downstairs. I can't remember, you know. That was ages ago. Yeah, but I normally remember though, man.

6:14Mo Gilligan: I'm so sorry, bro. At least you know I keep it real, though. Yeah. Because you see what it is, yeah? Sometimes you meet people and you say, yeah, yeah. Bro, I've seen people lie to my face. I say, yeah, man. I didn't do that time. And they're like, yeah, I remember, man. Yeah, you did it. And I'm like, I know you're lying now because we've never met, bro. So, yeah. No, no, but, oh. Oh, hold on. No, that's, oh, my God. It wasn't you. It was Andy Peters. I'm like, oh, come on, man. Do you know what I said? This is the thing. And I was going to record this and put it out. You see, the worst is when...

6:50So now I've got to the point where I've started getting recognised. Yeah. But not enough for it to be frequent for me to not have my guard up.

6:58Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because now I'll get people going, no, I recognise you. Yeah, yeah. And then I have to wait to see if they do recognise me or they're just secretly racist. I still get that now, though, bro. I know you. Where'd I know you from? I don't know, you know. I do comedy. Comedy? Yeah. What's your name? And you say your name, you're like, ah, ah, okay. And you're like, I'll look out for you. That is one of the most awkward interactions I have. Have you ever been somewhere and someone pulls out a phone and they're like, wait, wait, wait, stay there. I'm going to call. Blah, blah, blah.

7:30Mo Gilligan: Have you ever had that one? Yeah. And I'm like, I'm not, I can't wait for this. Like, it's weird. The most underwhelming feeling that the person gets where I've been on a train. One guy was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm with him now. Look who it is. Oh, hey, all right. I was like, please, man. I felt so embarrassed for me and them and everyone involved. But your beginning is quite interesting, right? Because you teach dance, right? I've done so many different types of jobs. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So before, even before being a bouncer, my thing was musical theatre I love the theatre and so when I came out of college that's what I wanted to do what college did you go to?

8:17I went to Barnet College

8:19Mo Gilligan: you went Barnet? yeah you're really North London through it man who's your football team? so here's the thing I don't have one you don't have one? I play rugby okay but even still Saracens North London oh they're North London yeah okay I didn't know that I know the name but I didn't know they're from North London yeah Saracens North London okay I tried to get into football, but I was so bad at it. And there were so many players, I couldn't remember everyone's name. And then when I was at school, it was either Tottenham or Arsenal. And I'm just hearing people arguing, and I'm thinking, you've both got valid points.

8:51I don't know who to pick. So I thought, you know what, I don't care. I went with Arsenal because those are the players. This is like Ian Wright days. Ian Wright, Sol Campbell. Ian Wright, Sol Campbell, David Seaman. Thierry Henry are the only players I could probably tell you that I could recognise you're probably an Arsenal fan if you know those names but not enough the only time I've been to an Arsenal game I went with I went with my pal Huss and we it's Arsenal versus Galatisseroi I remember that and we had box seats and I'm used to the rugby where we can drink everywhere football I literally took a step out everyone swarmed I was like it's only Budweiser it's not even a real beer do you know what I mean and then because I play rugby I couldn't take the game seriously because someone would like trip over and start rolling around and I just got stuck I was like oh my god is he okay

9:48Mo Gilligan: I was like everyone stop is he going to be okay no this is too far we all need to calm down he just got hit on the shoulder I don't know if he's going to make it so like you're from you're from North London yeah yeah studied at Barnet College you studied you studied musical theatre at college? I did maths, I did sports studies, I did geography and then on the side it was all musical theatre. Then I came out of that and I started going to Pineapple Studios. I thought that's where everyone goes to. Yeah, that's around the corner from here, right? Covent Garden. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then a friend of mine, he left college and went into IT and he was saying to me, dude, go IT.

10:31You'll never be without a job. There's always going to be computers. Yeah. So I've had so many different sales or consultancy roles within it just back and forth all over the years because you're always

10:42Mo Gilligan: going to need it yeah you're always going to need a computer yeah and then in between in between like doing dance contracts or shows and then i did one in the west end so i was out for like two years i lived in berlin for a year doing that so i've i've gone around everything but in between contracts you've got to try and find work. So because you know that that's your goal, you'll do any job. Yeah, yeah. So because of that, I've had so many different types of jobs. I used to be a hairdresser.

11:16I used to... I used to... I used to... I used to... I was a barber.

11:25See, it's different now you say barber.

11:27Mo Gilligan: We're using a hairdresser. I said, imagine it. Sit down, I'm putting layers in. She's a hairdresser. So where does this hustle come from? As much as I know, like the artistry of like the job that you do, so you have to find it. But where does that, where does that stem from for you? The hustle, I believe, comes from necessity. like i when i was 18 i had this job going door to door selling um loyalty cards and it was commission only and you learn a very big lesson then because if you don't work you don't eat very very simple yeah yeah and your pay is directly relative to how hard you worked and that that taught me a lot and like when we were kids we didn't we didn't have loads like we weren't we weren't by any see when um dave chapelle he's gone we weren't we weren't poor but we were poor we looked poor around other other families that lived there yeah yeah yeah it was very much it was very much like that so and i've got five older sisters as well so there's a lot of us in the house so everyone had to contribute if you wanted something i i didn't have the the luxury of going to my mom saying can i have 20 pounds for this and plus nigerian i've got to explain why I need that 20 pound on what purpose this is going to have and then I would get to sit down and explain to me why Jesus was all I needed you need God yeah that's it you need Jesus I hear that but I'm trying to go outside you know you just want to go and play I just want these jeans yeah but you you you have jeans like I want new jeans I don't even want them anymore that's fine I wear shorts it's good yeah and it but because of that you get this sort of self-aligned that if you want something you have to go and work for it so even as a kid I'd find any way that I was able to go and earn money so like I think I could only be like 12 going around my neighbours washing cars for a very I remember £2.50 I used to £2.50 listen man of course they all said yes yeah yeah yeah I was an idiot yeah I'm like please sir can I wash a car for£2.50 £2.50 £3.50 for the inside as well.

13:45Yeah. But at that age, you're sort of making a little bit of money. And plus it meant that I wasn't bothering my mother for money because she had her own stress. She didn't need me asking for stuff. So because of that, you build a work ethic. If you want something, you have to go work for it.

14:04Mo Gilligan: So where does then the love of musical theatre come into this? Because you mentioned you've got five older sisters as well. did that play a part in your love for musical theatre oh god yeah all of us so Sound of Music was probably the first film that I can remember going this is amazing and I think because they had so many kids yeah and we were like oh it's us just yeah Wyatt and Usherin like that you sort of you see yourself in that family and we knew the dancers we knew the songs and then you had things like Annie that came out Little Shop of Horrors Chitty Chitty Bang Bang all of these things that came out and you just sort of lost yourself in the music and the hilarity of what was going on and plus like um little shop of horrors had people like steve martin in it that i thought i'd followed um rick moranis in it who's honey i shrunk the kids so it had all these people that you'd watched doing other comedies because i've always loved comedy yeah and then you get to see them doing this and it sort of just kicks off that that not so much need to perform but you you love it because you're imitating what you're seeing.

15:12Mo Gilligan: Yeah. And where does that come into you now wanting to then study it? Because I know you like, I grew up loving rap and hip hop, but then I never done, I don't do that as a profession. You know, just that I like it from the outside. Yeah. You know, where did that then come in for you to then say, well, I want to pursue a career in this? Because I always say with musical theatre, it's like, one you have to act but then you've got an hour to dance and you've got an hour to sing as well it's very demanding and like when I've done performing arts but I'd look at that side of it and I'm like bro that's tiring bro you've got you might not even be the lead bruv like you might just have one part sometimes the lead's the easiest part like if I was to pick a role now I'd be Mufasa in The Lion King because that's nine minutes of work every day then you get thrown off a cliff you can sit in your dressing room yeah nothing so you have to bow

16:14like but you get ensemble or you get swing who have to learn everybody's parts so it is it's it just because you like the main role you might not have to work as hard as someone like swing who has to learn six different people's roles yeah yeah it's nuts but yeah it was the buzz of performing and i i remember i played i think the first time i played rivers of babylon on piano at a school concert and i mean i look back now it's terrible but i remember at the time like that

16:50Mo Gilligan: buzz of performing i was like this is amazing yeah and then i i could dance so you took that and then you'd you'd go out like we go clubs and this is like women like kid and play they're like oh we've got some moves for this one yeah this was like the original like oh we're gonna have a dance off we're gonna we're gonna have a bell yeah it was step up era i'm gonna go out and there'll be another group of people that were dancing then you'd go over then you do your thing and it would be like that even like that that buzz of performing there where everyone's watching and i just i just loved it yeah i just absolutely loved it so can you dance yeah like that so you can really throw it down.

17:33Mo Gilligan: Yeah.

17:38I don't know why I'm not... You can't see it, can you? I can't see it. You're like, how? I'm trying to see it.

17:48Mo Gilligan: Because it's like when you said the hairdresser, I was like, a hairdresser? But like, so what? Like, if we was in a club right now, and it was a circle, you're like, I can fucking take him. Even now, there's certain jams, if they come on I'm like I've got to it's not my fault I need you guys to move swear yeah my niece's wedding and Ethan all of her friends all dancing they start putting some old school songs on and and I do you know what and I hate that fact when they say old school songs because I'm sitting there going I remember when these were just songs yeah that was an old school why you bait me up like that but they were all two-stepping I was like you're not doing it wrong I was like I can't have this and I was like you've got to move.

18:32And I just let loose. I was like, this is how you do it.

18:34Mo Gilligan: I swear. Yeah. See, now I think I can, and I can dance, but like, I've tried, I've gone in the middle and I've, I remember one party, I was like, yeah, man, got in the middle. And I was like, right, this is, this is getting real, man. People are, people are really expecting things from me. And I was just fucking around. Yeah. So like, you ever do competitions, like breakdance competition, anything like this? So we went to, well, no, not breaking, not breaking, but we've gone to, they weren't like official, because there's not so much competitions, it's like dance meets. Yeah. Like Justin Boom in France, I don't know if they still do it, they did that every year, and it would just be, it'd be battles the whole way through.

19:15Mo Gilligan: And it's like everyone's sitting around the corner, and they're like, just clapping and stuff. No way, I can't picture you doing that. Yeah. And you just come in, what was your kind of dance like? If it was hip hop. Yeah. You remember like step up and you got served. Yeah. That was us. Yeah. That's all we used to do. But are you like a body popper? Are you a great beat? Body popper, popping, locking, hip hop. Really? Yep. Contemporary. I did a lot. We need to go after this one. I need to see this. You see, I'm from the group Flawless that did Britain's Got Talent. Yeah. So a lot of those, I taught them when they were kids.

19:57Really? yeah yeah fucking hell I saw Marlon a little while ago like because he used to come down to Pineapple and he's kept that going like he's sick yeah yeah I can't do what he does like anymore like he's because he's he's kept that he's kept that going so are you quite respected in the dance community then there's loads people of that era

20:16Mo Gilligan: will know will know me really yeah wow is this like a you say for you because I can't lie I'm sitting there just like I need to see it you know after this is done i'm like i at least see some videos man so that love of performing on stage and i say anyone who dances in that you know because you know it's center stage do you know i mean you go into a circle you're like cool i'm here to be center stage yeah so that love of dancing you know how did that become a love of then doing stand-up because i feel like oh that was an accident that's a vulnerability as well i mean so how did that happen so um people have always asked me have you always been funny have you ever had that question from people yeah you always been funny yeah and it's like i've not i don't think of myself as always been funny i've just always enjoyed making people laugh yeah yeah yeah and this like i've always loved the comedy and i remember watching so this is where it started and i was thinking about this the other day remember um the first time you watched beverly hills cop and then you saw like well even before that the golden child yeah like first we saw eddie murphy at that point i had no idea about stand-up and it was only years after that when i was sort of like i reckon maybe 12 13 that some someone showed me the delirious video and i was like oh he did stand-up yeah and i went and watched delirious and when i watched raw and i was crying i've still i still watch it now like all the way through and then that sort of gave me love for telling jokes and seeing just how how making someone laugh can make that person feel and then even after that it was when i saw raw and that's when i learned that richard pryor was a stand-up because i didn't know i just knew he was a comedy actor he was yeah the guy's superman and then i went back and watched all of that and i started seeing all of these people and i started looking into stand-up and really not even studying it just I loved stand-up and I loved what a joke, the energy a joke can bring to a room to change it.

22:23So if it's an awkward, awkward, awkward evening, a little joke would just flip that switch.

22:28Mo Gilligan: And just change the mood. And it would just change the mood. And plus, little things, it got me out of trouble. It worked when you're trying to sell something to someone, you crack a little joke and all of a sudden they're laughing. It worked as me being a bouncer. how easy it was to de-escalate a situation you can't be angry and laugh at the same time yeah you look weird yeah it followed through all of this and then when my son was born i i thought i quit entertainment because in my mind i was like he's not going to have the same upbringing i had with the uncertainty so i need to have a stable job to look after him and i was good with it.

23:10This wasn't like, damn kids, I've got to leave my dreams. It felt like that chapter had stopped now and I'll start a new one. That's when I went back into IT. And then there was a friend of mine, Christina Camby is her name. She got given a comedy course for her birthday and we went to watch them do stand-up. Five minutes of open mic per person. She was really good. She's a funny person anyway. And afterwards, she was like, yeah you should do it well i'm not getting up there i'm not doing a course she was like you don't need to do a course like there's loads you can just go and sign up to an open mic she was like try it because you've got so many funny stories you're always making us laugh so i was

23:47Mo Gilligan: like i said yes because i had a drink yeah and it was um it was a place in liverpool street dirty dicks sign up to do an open mic night and i had like three weeks to come up with five minutes and literally that first just from the first hit of laughter i was like oh this is this is the one yeah i was like i live here now and literally it felt like everything that i'd ever done now made sense because still i've never had to make anything up they're just stuff they're just that happens yeah yeah of course that's been amazing and that was only in that's 2015 right Yeah. So that's not, that's what, 10 years ago.

24:30Yeah. And it was, that first year, if I gigged more than once in a month, it was a lot because I was still working. I had a newborn. So I couldn't be out every night going to do gigs.

24:43Mo Gilligan: How was that for you? Because I feel like once you start doing standup, there's this really cool bug you get of like, I want to do it again. Yeah. You're performing one place. I'm ready to get on. how was that for you because did you still have that while also just having a child or would you quite did you kind of go with the mode of like i've done the show get another one next month i'll get another one next month yeah because i had the bug and i had that buzz um but my child very simply so it it didn't bother me to not go and gig because at that point i wasn't expected to take it as a profession at the beginning i was just getting a that buzz from performing again in a very easy way where i could just go because i didn't really gigged in london as well because i was i'm not going to travel up and down the country i've got i've got a newborn yeah oh wow and then what was actually pretty cool was the the power of saying no to stuff because people would offer me gigs i'd have to say no to them because i had the child and it's like when you said no to someone all of a sudden they want you more yeah to come back and then and one thing that i did um because again coming from a consultant's in background or i knew how the game was from me being in theater um a lot of it is optics yeah do you remember when you first start all the gigs like what are you looking for comics that have got 30 gigs under the belt yeah 100 gigs i'm not gonna write down all of my gigs i'm going to so that's long yeah yeah so i think my fourth gig was the gong show at the comedy store fourth yeah brav listen anyone listening the gong show is it's an open mic night yeah you walk on stage and in 10 seconds if they're not feeling it then you're off so you've got to survive until the gong you've got five you've got to last five minutes oh brutal i've done it once and i was like wow you went four gigs in yeah and the best thing is i couldn't get gonged off because um i again i played the game in any comedy bill the the the thought process is whoever's on last is the headliner is the best oh that's how you done it which is it's just how people think yeah yeah yeah even though you go to when you go to a pro club the whole bills headliner so it doesn't matter yeah but in most clubs especially like open mics or you go anything below a pro level the the closer is who you imagine is going to be the best okay so when i got to the store that's really smart yeah i said to them i was like and it was it was all bullshit as well yeah i was like i've got some friends coming down tonight if possible yeah can i go on as late as possible because i don't want to miss it no like yeah it's cool and they put me on last.

27:40And I was like, yes.

27:42Mo Gilligan: That is so smart. And then when I came out, like literally, I was all in black. I looked, I was wearing the same clothes as the bouncers that were working there. Yeah. So when I walked out, the guy that had the card was sat center stage. And what actually happened is I forgot what I was going to say. But I just glared at him because he caught my eye. Yeah. So I'm glaring at him now. Yeah. He's trying not to eye contact. Everyone else starts laughing at him. I didn't speak for like 30 seconds because everyone's now laughing him getting just more awkward and he just went nah fuck this and he gave me the card I was like right now we've got rid of that shit we can start and then I just did five minutes of just calm comedy because I was like I can't get gonged off now but the best thing I did is at the end of the night when they took the sign down that says gong crow I just got back on stage and I got someone to take a picture of me with a mic with the logo behind me and then that's what I would send to promoters.

28:42They were like, oh, we need someone who's got 50 gigs. I went, don't worry about that. I'll play the store. Just send them that.

28:46Mo Gilligan: That is so smart, bruv. That is so smart. Four gigs. I mean, how long I was doing comedy before I'd done the gong show and then I got to the end and it was a cheer-off between me and, you know, Najeeung. Yeah. And at this point, we're both still early in our careers and they're like, all you want to do is just perform at the store. Because that would be the prize of just like, if you win, you get to perform on an actual night. Yeah. And me and Nigel just like, hey man, you're really good, man. Well done. Yeah, you too. And I'm like, I just want to win, you know? And then in the end, they just like, cool.

29:24Mo Gilligan: Like you've both gone through, you've both won. Yeah. But my God, that is one of the toughest shows. That is so, I'm so pissed I didn't do that. oh man so like you go from from doing that how was that entry then into comedy because it sounds like you then have the tools that most comics kind of wait to get after they've had maybe a hundred gigs in that you've got the confidence you've got the the aura but you're also you've got the likability well so touch wood i've never had a bad show i've never died on stage and I know it's going to happen and this makes me really nervous now because before every show in the back of my mind I'm going is this going to be the bad one even to the point right when I was on Live the Apollo the first one right my agent if you look at my face if you watch that and watch my face as I walk out because what happened moments before that because me and him used to joke what if I don't have a bad gig and then we get to the Apollo and that's the first gig I die at yeah yeah yeah is that the guy i met you with in edinburgh yes yeah so we used to joke about this but because he used to try and send me to gigs that were notoriously hard for new acts because he was like you've got to get that feeling i was like yeah i know let let so but all it did was it gave me a good work ethic because i'd get there early and i'd watch the crowd i'd see how they reacted to other people's jokes and then we kept joking about it what if you get to lie the apollo and that's that's the one that goes bad forgot about it fast forward we get to lie the Apollo I'm getting ready to go out and he's gone remember that time when you joked about you getting to the Apollo and that's the first bad gig have a good one and I walked off I was like and welcome to the stage you're making us to do me see I walk on I was like the nerves on that day was you nervous mate I was back do you know when you're behind that sign my legs were going I was like all you've got to do is walk because you don't get to see the crowd or anything yeah you see nothing and that's especially when you walk through that smoke and your brain starts messing with you goes you know you're gonna trip over oh bruv you're gonna trip over you're gonna look an idiot they're like stand on this spot and action they got the smoke you're like i can't see nothing i can't see a thing yeah yeah yeah what did that moment feel like for you it felt like um it felt like making it that was the first time that i worked for something and got exactly what i'd work for and it spurred me to want to do more yeah because that was the goal i said from the beginning i want to do live at apollo because you think i was what 30 33 when i started and again the the good shows have come because i had a lot of my bad shows doing theater i learned a lot of my stage mistakes doing theater i learned about um timing and presence All of that I learned in another industry that I could literally just walk on stage.

32:27And plus being a doorman, it's all about presence. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So all of these sort of, I think that's the difference. If you come into something later in life, you're coming with experience of other things that a lot of comedians will have to learn. You think a comedian that started when he was 17 is not going to have any of that. They've got to learn through that process.

32:45Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was lucky enough I got that somewhere else and I was able to bring it to the stage here. but now this was like I got the thing that I worked for and in a short space of time because if you started 2015 we're in 2025 now that's like 10 years within the journey you've done Just for Laughs for example in Montreal Adelaide in Austria New York's Soho Theater Residency like some comics can be gigging for 20 years before they've even left the country to do stand-up. How do you find when you do stand-up in other places in the world and you're getting that reception because not everyone does just for laughs.

33:33Mo Gilligan: Do you know what I mean? How do you find that part of the journey? It's amazing that you've gone somewhere else and they get you. And it's like, I used to have this whole joke about when you're working full time, if you're working any job, You're not the real you at work. Yeah. Like, you're the office version of you. That's not... You come out of work, take your little mask off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You crack on with who you really are. Yes, yes, yes, of course. And comedy was... It was like this opening where I could literally just go and be myself. And it just felt amazing, especially when people get you and they go, do you know what, I see you.

34:13Yeah. Like, New York was a trip because I was playing New York comedy clubs and I called them up and was like, look, I'm in town. Can I come do it? I literally was doing unpaid open mics. I thought, let me just go and see if I can be around that crowd. And I walked on New York cat baggies. The moment I spoke, you could see all of them going, what? I was like, look, I'm going to give you a minute to get used to this voice coming out of this face and this body. I was like, it doesn't match. I get it. It's not what you're expecting. and they were just that surprise meant I could play on it and then again the theatre comes out so you just you start being a character character troll of yourself over it and then I was just saying words there was no comedy I was just going bottle yeah yeah it was and then I was accustomed to their faces but we're already laughing now so it becomes fun you could do that in the States as well

35:10Mo Gilligan: you could get away with just like yeah you guys are going to be weird you know but I feel like in America they love that they love the interaction I feel with comedy do you know what I mean yeah like how's it been for you when you go to places like Austria and stuff like that as well so I find myself working on my timing better so the good thing about Austria Paris well Copenhagen so many different places where English is the second language it was and I'll tell you the first time I learnt this it was the Rotterdam Comedy Festival and I'm I was still quite new I had like 20 minutes max all the planes were messed up so the promoter was like look can you do me a favor can you do a bit longer because the other acts not going to be here I was like yeah cool and he goes and the other acts actually the MC here's flies been cancelled as well so do you want to do the whole show and I'll pay you for all three all I heard was I'll pay you for all three spots yeah so I was like yeah I'll do it and it was literally as I was walking there I was like I've got 20 minutes and I got to do an hour and I got on stage and I was like look I'm going to I'm going to be real with everyone thank you for coming but there was meant to be three of us MC middle and then me at the end I was like now here's the thing those people can't they're not going to make it the flight's cancelled so I'm going to do the whole show but there's a problem I've only got 20 minutes so I'm going to do my set half the speed I need you guys to laugh for twice as long and we just made a thing out of it yeah and literally I tell a joke and I just stand again no bit more bit more bit more okay let's go and because that became a thing but in my mind I'll go you've got to slow down yeah because one they need to understand everything you're saying hmm and and two you ain't got that much material yeah yeah so my timing became better then I just used it when I went any other country like Paris is have you ever done you done comedy in Paris I done a show last year in Paris and I was I'll be honest when I've gone to Paris just for like a trip I was always a bit like it's all right here yeah but it doesn't look how it does in the pictures that was my first time I ever went there do you know what I mean yeah and also like Parisians are very direct direct but yes they're like you'd be like oh where is this place i don't know if you look you can find it and you're like uh okay uh that's extremely rude like they don't but they don't get it we don't know i don't know yeah i don't know if you look can find it i don't know and you're like all right cool bro like so like i kind of went into the show being like and one before i do shows i don't i don't really check up on how many tickets are sold how many people come in because Because I also know like you can do shows where you're like, it's 50 % sold and on the date it's sold out.

38:06Mo Gilligan: Or shows where you're like, cool, it is sold out. And then you get, you turn up and you're like, right, there's like 20 empty seats. Yeah. So I think for me, Paris was always the show that I've done in Europe. I was like, I don't know what they're going to be like. Do you know what I mean? How, how was it for you? It's their reactions that crept me up because, because they're translating what you're saying and then figuring out if they find it funny, they sit on every word, but from the performance point of view they only laugh at the punchline and it's hilarious to watch like when you're on stage like you can't take it seriously because it's too funny like I'm literally because they sit there like that you tell a joke and they go ha ha ha ha and then go back to nothing it's like that's like when I was in Copenhagen yes Copenhagen's very much like that and I'm like they reset I'm like you don't fucking like this or not because I don't get it man yeah that was for me Copenhagen was like did they do this thing where i had this in in helsinki yeah where like you're telling the joke and as you're telling it they're almost clapping at the setup before the punch yeah did you have that yeah how weird is that bruv so your journey of comedy is really interesting because you played a lot of like festivals and how come you never really like delved into that the black comedy circuit i'll tell you i'll tell you exactly why knowing who to go to oh okay and then it was sometimes it would be um conflict and diaries but it's like because i'll play any room yeah yeah i love comedy and the thing is when i go when i go to shows and and i see myself in the audience yeah makes me so happy yeah yeah yeah like because that's that's kind of like a lot of the jokes that I'll tell, because I never really go into race, but I'll touch on it.

39:55Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah. I'll touch it in a way where you've got the black people in the room going, no, no, no, he's right, we saw that. And then you've got the white people in the room going, oh, yeah, yeah, no, I get it. But sometimes it'll be for the, because you know, like in America, a lot of black comics are very, black people do things like this, and white people do things like this. Yeah, yeah, of course. Well, over here, it's very different, because I could do a whole set on North London does it like this. South London does it like this. I could do Nigerians do it like this. You know what I mean?

40:22You could really, you can separate so much more. So sometimes I'll do a joke which is based on the ethnic minorities in the room as a collective. Yeah, man. So there's been so many places I've gone to go and gig, but then it's who's, because I get put up for stuff, but it's like who's doing the, who's booking?

40:43Mo Gilligan: Yeah. Because all of them I want to go and do. Because again, I love seeing myself in the audience. Yeah. And it's so nice when, oh, God, there's this lady threw me, this Nigerian woman. She came with her. Her daughter brought her. The moment, and this will be the hard thing, the moment she brought her over to see me, like I went into the eight-year-old Nigerian kid, I was like, I don't want to swear in front of her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, I don't want to do that. I was like, I might change this show. I was like, because she's going to be looking at me. And she definitely doesn't. But what if she tells my mom?

41:19Mo Gilligan: I feel like your route is really interesting in a way that you went to things like the Gong Show, Four Shows In. Yeah. Which is like, I remember starting off on the black circuit and looking at a show like that where you're like, oh, can I even do that? So I didn't know there was a black circuit when I started. I didn't know anything about stand-up in the UK when I started. it was for me stand-up was stand-up i had my goal of what i wanted to go to which was and i see you think i must have been going for maybe two and a half years at this point and again gigging once a month if that yeah and then um i got with i got with my agent around about that time and i was like this is what i want to do i want to do love the apollo and i always said i don't mind how hard i have to work but this is what i want to do and we worked it backwards how do we get there yeah so i literally followed that route and it was only along the way because i did the i did the kobo night up in birmingham oh yeah man yeah this is this is birmingham glee yeah and i was just i was there for the weekend and someone i think it was um nabil wasn't able to make it as i said oh manuel's in town and i and that was like one i think that was the first sort of black comedy night that I did.

42:42This was a few years ago now. But at that point, I didn't know what was out there. Because sometimes it's not what you're looking for or it's not what comes to find you.

42:51Mo Gilligan: I feel like for a lot of comics, especially on the black circuit, we can have this fear of like, I don't know if I want to, there's a hundred people and it's a gong show. Where it's like playing at Hackney Empire, 1 ,500 people would feel very normal. So there would sometimes be this fear. And I'm only talking just regarding myself where it was like, oh, like, can I play that room? It's the mainstream room as well. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And there's lots of mainstream rooms and there's certain things I hold issues with. There's certain clubs that have annoyed me as well with how they carry on. And there's certain clubs that really make you feel welcome, which, because I wanted it normalized.

43:37Because you know how most bills you're going to have, if you've got four comics, you'll have the black guy, the two white guys, and the woman. Yeah. And for years, it was like that. And I hated it. Like, I wanted it to be normalized. And so, like, trying to, when you do find a club that does that, because I didn't want to come out and go, I want to be a black act.

44:01Mo Gilligan: Yeah. I want to be a great actor despite where I'm from. Yeah, you just want to be funny. I want to be funny. And I think with that example, the people on the mainstream, I want to use that so you guys start looking at everyone and going, ah, we can relate to that too. Yeah, yeah, of course. Because there's, especially in a place like, well, you think of all the big cities, London, Manchester, Birmingham, they're so mixed. Yeah. They're so mixed. And again, I want to see more black people going to these mainstream clubs. You have to take yourself to the people. Yeah. 100%, man. I totally agree.

44:37Mo Gilligan: I think once I started doing some of those mainstream rooms and I guess it's also like, you know, I think sometimes for the audience, I just wear a hoodie and a pair of jeans. And I think sometimes, I don't know if you've had this where you go on stage and an audience member, they kind of look at you like, oh yeah you're gonna kind of have a feeling what you're gonna do yeah and i think the minute where i used to be like yeah like you know like love my mom like my mom dances like this it'll be like oh i thought we'd do the older you know african jamaican thing and you're like no i'm gonna talk about you know my mom my dad my upbringing my name and i started realizing very quickly that you know and slim slim said he's like funny is funny wherever you take it funny is funny but also realizing that the world that I had started off in and doing these big shows and I was like, hold on a second, if I performed, you know, very early on to like a thousand people at the Indigo, I can really do a show too.

45:38Mo Gilligan: And I think it's interesting because I feel like you've done it almost like the other way of like going to do the smaller shows and now you do like the live The Apollos, you know? You think if you, when you go and play, like you see like how big, well, hammer smith apollo you see the size of that place yeah energy spreads when it's packed yeah that's i find that easier than going to a club where there's 30 people in there and they can all see you do you know what i mean like that that's the that's the difficult part yeah yeah yeah it takes you back to like because doing a dance show dance show theater is easy there's 25 of us on a stage i can hide yeah yeah yeah i mean you go to an audition where there's you and four people staring at you going let's do this dance yeah yeah yeah that's nerve-wracking so it was like the i was sort of used to i'd already played those rooms so now me coming into this it did make it feel a bit easier but one thing i personally think that when you go when you go to a black night I think they're harder because especially like you think Nigerians one I can only speak on behalf of my lot I don't give a shit if you're not funny I am not going to laugh and they will judge you with your eyes as you're talking to them looking around like someone's going to come and rescue them that's every black comedy show so I'm like you've got to be good from the get-go.

47:11You don't get that bit of grace to start warming up with. And your content, it needs to be clever because some of those... I talk some horrible shit about my kids because they can be idiots, as all kids can. But when I'm in... I did this fundraising night for my sister and I think we had two white people in there. And when I started talking about my shit about kids, you could see the mums just like...

47:43Mo Gilligan: the disapprove yeah yeah yeah i used to have that when i spoke about my mom yeah and it wouldn't be bad about my mom yeah i'll be like oh you know like all moms are dickheads and be like yeah no you can't say that about your mom no and i was like it's just jokes auntie man yeah yes so you're ready to go up to edinburgh yeah um by the time this comes out you'll be in edinburgh you'll be at the festival right what's edinburgh like for you because i've done a small part of edinburgh i've done a half build show for like you know two and a half weeks how do you find edinburgh all right i'm the wrong person to ask about edinburgh because i've only had an awesome time yeah like i see you in edinburgh it's mad yeah yeah yeah and and this is the thing so do you know, normally at the Fringe, about 10 days in, people start getting the Edinburgh Brews and people start moaning.

48:36Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

48:37Mo Gilligan: Right. So I grew up doing two years of somebody else's show where I had to say the same thing that was written for me every day. Whereas now I get to go to Edinburgh for one month and do my own show for only an hour. Yeah. This is a holiday for me. Yeah. This is, I get to go to one place. I haven't got to drive up down the country. I get to be in one place and do my show for the whole month. And then, so this is my third time I've been up to Edinburgh. The first time, I went up there and I was nervous because they put me in a 120-seater room. Really? Yeah, yeah, for your first room. Fucking hell, 120?

49:16120-seater.

49:17Mo Gilligan: Just for context to anyone listening, is like, the Edinburgh Fringe Festival, I'd say the average size might be 50. Yeah. Say about 50? Yeah. That's like the average. And most comics, first room a comfort is alright yes because you get a few maybe standing yeah so you had 120 120 and in my mind I was like do you know what if I get 20 people in I'm good it's fine and that first night we had I think about 90 people in shit so that feeling became addictive because I was like I don't want to go backwards now so literally every day I went out flyering I was talking to everybody and I sold out the entire run.

50:00Mo Gilligan: Wow. And then I got nominated for Best Newcomer. Best Newcomer, yeah, yeah, yeah. So then I went back the next year, and I was like, they put me back in the same room, and I was like, I want that feeling again. So again, I went out flyer, and it sold out a little bit easier the second time. We did about seven extra shows they sold out, and then I got nominated for Best Show. So my experience of the Fringe... That's your first run? These are my first two runs. Wow. I got the number four best newcomer and then the year after best show and that is like that is huge because there's four people that have done it in the whole of Edinburgh that's sensational in like 40 odd years back to back and that's what you kind of work for is getting that nomination yeah do you know what I mean as much as you if you obviously financially if you can break even or make a profit it's great but the nomination is like what really really does it So this year now, I'm so much more relaxed because I just have to focus on the show.

51:03Yeah. Because I've done that part now. So now it gets to be just me and the audience.

51:09Mo Gilligan: Yeah. So I'm going out there with so much little stress. I'm going to go up there. I'm going to go fly in. I'm going to do all of that again. Yeah. You still do that stuff? I love it. Really? Yeah. Because now you're at a place where you can pay one of the students, man. I'm not doing it. I'm like, it's my money. fair enough fair enough man like and plus the audience get to know you before you've gone on stage yes it's like emceeing your own gig before you've even done the gig and then the nice thing is do you know like you'll see some comics where how they are in real life is not how they are on stage and people want to know are they are they like that people have people have asked me about you they're like is Mo what's Mo like when he's off stage I'm like Joy it's got terrible memory you might meet him and he'll he'll say you're best friends he'll say you're best friends you're like we're like twins we've got the same beard and I'm like yeah cool we're going to be best friends and then he'll just he'll forget you no I remember as we've been talking I do remember now I swear it was a it was a Mogilligan and Friends yeah I wasn't going to say Mogilligan and Friends because clearly we're not Mogilligan and Friends and this guy this guy from North London but is it so like because I meet so many comics and they go to Edinburgh and you know there's a lot of comedians now that use social media and they're very much like against you know things like Edinburgh I'm not against it or for it I've gone there because I was like I want to try it and see if it's for me I just realised that that stage in my career my audience wasn't there but I feel like for you it's probably the most perfect thing because I feel like you are really an architect of your own design.

52:55Mo Gilligan: You want to do the things that are the front-facing things, whether it's flyering and having your own show, seeing what people think about it. But also, Edinburgh is such a tough experience and you can go in it and it can spit you out. You can just be like, I don't know if I want to do comedy. I've seen it break people. I've seen people quit. like it is and the people that like a lot of social media comedians yeah they are kind of right because the industry has changed like before you went to Edinburgh to get discovered yeah that's what would happen whereas now you don't have to do that yeah like you can be discovered online and the audiences I find are different okay like I've seen I've seen comedians that have come from TikTok that will sell out a run yeah but the people that come the people that come to their shows are tiktok fans so they haven't got the they haven't got the patience to sit and watch something for an hour they're 30 second people okay and then also as a comedian like the way that you come through where you've got work from a five to a 10 to a 20 to to 40 and then then to an hour you can hone that so you know how to go on and do an hour show yeah Whereas a lot of the social media comedians that start on social media, it's an edited three minutes, which you can't do on stage.

54:24And all of a sudden, like a long-form joke, they don't get, I need quick punchlines. Now you've been talking for 12 minutes and no one's laughed. But it's because you haven't gone through that or have someone teach you this is kind of what you want to do with that kind of long-form stuff. the comedians that have got podcasts that works really well because your audience are people that can listen to something for an hour I find that works a lot better

54:53Mo Gilligan: and I guess that audience through podcasts they're the ones that are listening and they're not expecting a laugh but they're also like you have those private in jokes that if you're a fan of the podcast you know and fans coming to see the show are like we're kind of kind of waiting for that yeah like where's Gary Gary the cameraman you're sitting there like what's going on who's Gary the cameraman oh it's really interesting because I've never like again I've not been to Edinburgh for a while so like it's really refreshing seeing someone talk about in the positive because you know I know so many comics who are like no fuck Edinburgh man there's so many negatives though the money it costs the thing that has that does piss me off and it's the thing that i'm that i draw my line at is that it seems like everybody makes money apart from the act okay which i think is bullshit you think the venues are putting their costs up they're making money the amount of money they charge for like you you go for travel lodge at any other time of the year and pay your 65 pound a night for your room you go up in the fringe and now all of a sudden it's 500 pounds that's wild like that's mad that you're allowed to do that yeah that is fucked so you're you're kicking out a lot of like real working class comics who now can't afford to go up because people are it will stop at one point i was like i don't know if it will it will just be full of people that can afford it yeah yeah so it's going to be a lot more highbrow stuff and and i'm like you're missing out on a whole group of people that have got funny stories to tell yeah i think it is definitely that's my that i agree on that in a sense that I think Edinburgh, when I think of other festivals that happen around the world, they seem more accessible.

56:39Mo Gilligan: I don't know if it's because of those places are bigger places and they can spread it out a bit more. But I feel like with Edinburgh, it's in a place that you would think, it's not hard to get there. You can get there through train, coach or plane. So we can all go there and get there. I just think that because that one, how much they charge on, you know, even getting there. You're like, I remember going there and a friend of mine gave me discount because he works for the trains and telling comedians that, yeah, I got a train up. He's like, the train? Wow. My God, you must be doing really well in your show.

57:19Mo Gilligan: I was like, how the fuck did you get? We saw the night coach. And I was like, oh, rah. Yeah. The hustle is that deep. do you go to that bar afterwards what's that which one they got a little fancy bar you gotta be a member or something oh there's the abattoir yeah that even sounds fancy doesn't it yeah so that's for anyone listening that's basically like the soho house of the edinburgh fringe yeah yeah you gotta have a pass yeah or be with someone that's got a pass yes yeah yeah And that's where a lot of people go to do the networking. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's, I mean, I've gone there. I've gone there every year.

58:02But again, it's like you said, you make your own. I do think you make your own environment. So I was like, wherever I'm at, it's my house. Yeah. So I'm just going to go and sit and I'm going to chill and do my thing. Do you do the networking stuff? Yes, but not in the way. I think I believe in relationships. like have good relationships but I think that relationship should be genuine like if you're talking to me just this is the worst when you go you'll be in and you can spot these people a mile at they look over your shoulder you'll be having a conversation with them and someone will walk past and they're like always looking for the next person they need to go and talk to so what I love doing anytime someone does that to me I turn around who are we looking for yeah we can both go and talk to them who are we looking for

58:49Mo Gilligan: yeah it's like hey how's he oh yeah yeah like man just you can go you know yeah you can just say bro listen I'm shouting a bit I'll get some drinks yeah cool man do your thing you don't need to stay here tell me how hard your run's been man yes it's fine bro I want positivity in that so with anything like I generally just keep myself to myself I'm like that in green rooms and and a lot of it as well is because it's hard to trust people in this industry yeah because the amount of times there was this one time I was in a green room act come in and everyone was like oh hey how you doing what's happening how you been well what you been up to and then they left I can't fucking stand her and I'm like wow blood fire out in the open land and a couple of things annoy me one that's how you act so in my mind I'm like what are you saying about me when I'm not in this room and two the fact that you said that around me we don't know each other we're not bridgings yeah yeah yeah so either you think I'm that guy as well that thinks like these people.

59:52Or you care that little about what I might say about this. You're happy to say anything you want in front of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So now I've done it for a while so I do find it quite hard to sort of... I don't know that many acts because I keep myself to myself. Yeah. Just purely because of that because... And you see that in the abattoir. So if you start telling... I've literally seen someone get drunk privately and then the next day everyone's talking about it. I'm like, just let them do their thing then.

1:00:23Mo Gilligan: Yeah. Like, it can be a bit of a chatty-patty industry though sometimes where you're just like, what's what this person's doing and that person and you're like, I got my own vibes going on outside of this, you know? I got my own friends, my own family. Yeah. I think you need it. I think that's important. You've got to have, you've got, I think we've got to have one foot in the real world. Yes. Because what we do, this is not the real world. Like, if you break it down our job we go to work and every 30 seconds someone's a group of people tell us we're awesome like if you let it that will go to your head yeah because especially when you're doing your own tour or it's your show people have come to see you like it's easier to be great in front of your own crowd yeah to go to another crowd and be good is much harder yeah so when you're constantly getting praise you believe the hype and you do need someone to go jaw like my friends are like that they couldn't give a shit what I do yeah like you're still an idiot yeah yeah yeah you gotta have your friends to hold you down 100 % man you know I think your friends are so important to like where where you are in your journey but also just detaching yourself away from yeah the job you do you know I mean having conversations that are not to do with stage time and this is going on and oh how's that thing for you it's just like oh what's up man didn't you have a heart attack on stage heart disease heart failure heart failure was he on stage?

1:01:49this is that 2019 right? I was in Dubai really? doing a show? I was doing a show it was for the Laughter Factory and it was the last show of like a 10 day run we're flying back the next day and I didn't feel great that day anyway and then I got to the end of the joke well the end of the set at all the sudden I just couldn't breathe

1:02:12Mo Gilligan: i couldn't get words out that is mad ironically it made the joke better because the timing in between the first part and the last part i was telling the banging jim joke yeah and so i just got to the part where i was like and i've just normally i'd go i just bet um i'm gonna make you so wet and i'll just bang jim i did it as one hit yeah but then because i was i couldn't breathe i was like i'm gonna get you so wet and they just laughed i was like right i've got a second it's and I just banged him and he got another laugh. Oh, shit. So you're killing it on stage and almost killing yourself on stage at the same time.

1:02:47The thing that I think saved me is I didn't know what was going on. Because a lot of times, you ever seen a kid where you go, oh, you're bleeding, and they go, oh, now I'm going to cry. Yes, yeah, yeah. If someone had gone to me, oh, yes, because you're going through heart failure, I probably would have panicked and died then. But because you don't know, I had asthma as a kid. So it kind of felt like an asthma attack, but much, much worse than I ever remembered it. So I was like, right, just relax and just try to breathe slowly. Just be as still as you can and breathe slowly. And I was like that.

1:03:21But a few lucky things happened. When we got on the plane to fly home, I was sat next to two paramedics. And they were like, he's not okay. Because they wouldn't move me. and the paramedic's like, no, you need to give him, if you've got oxygen on this plane, he needs to be on oxygen. So what? After the show,

1:03:41Mo Gilligan: you start feeling bad? No, during the show. During the show? Yeah. So then you leave, what, the next day? Yeah. So what happened on the plane? I was on oxygen the whole way back. But what happened before you had oxygen? You just collapsed or something? I was on the plane. I was literally, I was towards the point of being comatose. Like, I was just nothing. Really? It started to deteriorate really quickly once I got on the plane. And it was because of the paramedics that were like, yeah, he's not okay. Oh, shit. Yeah, he got really bad. Oh, my God, man. That is so scary. Yeah. And having it on a plane as well.

1:04:22Mo Gilligan: Yeah. So then what happened after the plane? They gave you oxygen. What happened after that? I got off the plane and they sort of will. I think the plane staff were just happy I didn't die. And they sort of wheelchaired me to like, literally like, gone by. Yeah, yeah. And got me out of there. And then I got picked up and I went to the, I went to the hospital. Because here's the thing. Here's the scary part, actually. So I knew I had a throat infection because I'd been to the hospital the week before. Yeah. And they've said, you had a throat infection. And I, as you know, the week is a few days before.

1:04:55but I'd felt crap like for a couple of weeks this just started to spiral and I never got it checked out because we're guys and we're idiots

1:05:03Mo Gilligan: yeah yeah we're like oh take some man up pills mate you'll be fine so I didn't bother and then I knew I had the infection and I didn't have time to go to the GP before we went to Dubai so I thought it's a throat infection it's a cold in it I'll get over it so while we were out there I used to smoke and I couldn't smoke because it felt like inhaling glass it was so painful and then the night before this happened i started coughing up so much blood oh that in my mind i was like they're gonna tell me i've got lung cancer and that's it i was like i'm dead now and at that point i'd actually just given up which kind of relaxed me because i was like in my mind i know what it is see when i'm on the plane i'm like i know i know what's gonna happen so when we got off and they were like taken to the hospital in my mind i was like what's the point they're just gonna tell me i've got lung cancer and i've got a few months to live so i was so blase about it.

1:05:54So when we got there and I just sort of told them my details and just sat there quietly, I've never seen anyone admitted so quickly into intensive care. So I was like, yeah, it's lung cancer. I've got days. So when they came in and told me, they were like, it's heart failure. I was like, yes. Oh, shit. Because what they told me was like dilated cardiomyopathy, which doesn't sound that bad when you first hear it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. oh that could be all right um but i was so happy that it wasn't cancer then they explained to me what cardiomyopathy was i was like okay so i'm not dying of that i'm dying of something else yeah and my my heart function was eight percent yeah it just it was not working so i spent like a couple weeks on oxygen while that sort of started to build up again and it took ages

1:06:45Mo Gilligan: do you ever think of how that could have ended if you was on stage and they said listen the headliner can't make it and we need you to feel like what happened in yeah in in rotterdam do you ever does that those things start crossing your mind everything crosses my mind of the what if now what if i weren't sat next to the paramedics yeah what if i didn't go to the hostel you could have been in business class by yourself i mean yeah yeah going through this man it was nuts it was so there's so many different times where i think where i think back and go there's so many things that nearly happened yeah but now this is what makes me more positive because now i know what worse looks like so this part feels like a sequel yeah because i wasn't expecting to go like i little things i haven't smoked since 2019 never didn't drink for a couple years either yeah i just went for a bit of a reset and my relationship with everything has now changed because I know what worse looks like.

1:07:49Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah, of course. How do you look at the future of the job that you do now as a stand-up? Because I feel like your route into stand-up was almost like you had been able to take what you had learned from the stage in some ways and other jobs like IT and being a doorman. And it feels like you've put this all into stand-up in a way that like sometimes people's stories are much different of like i done my first show i was you know not to say you was really nervous but i'm still nervous now but almost like there is nerves but there's a level of confidence that like you need for stand-up that just can surpass the nerves yeah i mean yeah i feel like you know any performer has nerves like i i have nerves i think if you're not nervous you're doing something oh yeah yeah yeah yeah it's some psychotic things still you gotta be nervous man but like having the confidence though to really like hone in on your craft but almost kind of you know to know that you're not feeling well on stage but you're like show's still gonna go on in some ways do you know i must go on yeah so like how do you look at your rent because you're saying like that you know you're a family man you've got children and you know it's interesting hearing someone say well when my son came I looked I said no to more things than I said yes to so how do you look at towards like where your career is now but also to the end as opposed to you know like is it looking at an end goal because one of your goals was to be on live at the Apollo yeah so do you think there is an end goal where you're like I want to get to that I have an end goal and that's the thing that a lot of comics don't know, we just keep going we just keep going, keep going I have an end goal I've thought about this there's a price to my happiness and it's 4 million yeah in one goal within a period of time so my goal is if I can do I want to work towards doing a 400 ,000 ticket tour over two years.

1:10:04You get a big tour like that. After that, I'd be happy to be done. Yeah. Wow. Because then I get to live.

1:10:17Mo Gilligan: No way. Yeah. You're out. But you could sell then a million tickets. Are you not fast?

1:10:28That's what I'm saying. Now that I've seen worse, like coming through that, your value of thing changes because there's going to be, after a certain, there's like, if you look at sort of riches and money and stuff like that, you'll start from having, like you're working close, you're living paycheck to paycheck. And especially with comedy, like one of my first goals was I want to get to a point of comedy where I can take the weekend off because I feel like it.

1:10:52Mo Gilligan: Yeah. And then I got there, I was like, this feels nice. Like bills are paid, kids are happy, belly's full, do you know i mean i'm good and then you get if you get to part where you're rich great rich up here yeah i'm liking that yeah but then you go past rich and you become wealthy and i think the difference between rich and wealthy is rich you can take the week off wealthy you're always working yes i mean beyonce don't get a weekend off yeah man beyonce is beyonce all the time bill gates don't get to yeah oh but i'm bill we need you but i'm on holiday it doesn't matter yeah yeah yeah This is your company.

1:11:27Yeah, man. And then past wealth, you go power, which is where you get into dangerous territory because that's the one thing you're not letting go of.

1:11:35Mo Gilligan: Yeah, man. And I don't want to be anywhere near that. Like, if I get to a place where I'm rich and my family's looked after and I don't have... Because then everything, if I want to go and do... If I want to go and do someone's charity calling I can do. If I want to go and do the store for the weekend I can do. So where are you now? Are you at Decent? Now I'm at Decent. Decent's all right. Yeah, yeah. So this is where I'm at And it's so weird to think when you come from sort of a background where you didn't have loads growing up, what you consider to be decent. Like now, and this is my brag, when I go to fill up petrol, I just fill it up to the clicks.

1:12:11Fill it up to the clicks and I pay it. Do you know what I mean? And then I'm like...

1:12:14Mo Gilligan: Hey, bro, I do that! That's the one, innit? Do you remember back in the day? You got£7.12. And you stop at£7. Have you ever been in a petrol station where you've gone£7.14 and you've had to go, look, boss man, look, I went to put 7.12 in, like, I went over, I've got no, I've got no, I've got no cash. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, now, clicks. And the first time I did that, I didn't realise, I was on the phone, I was on the phone and I was like, I sat my car after us, I was like, yeah. Oh, wow. Full tank, boy. Full tank. And I'm just like, yeah, done. Do you do that thing where it clicks and you still keep putting it in?

1:12:52Mo Gilligan: Yeah, yeah. until it can't click no more. Yeah, no, that's funny. I thought it was just me, boy.

1:12:59That was in my mind. I was like, I'm good now.

1:13:02Mo Gilligan: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, Emmanuel, man. It's been so fun having you on the pod, man. I think you're probably the first guest we've had on the pod who's just like, no, I know the end. Like, I know the end goal. And I really do hope you achieve it. And I can see you achieving it because you seem like the way that you're, like you're you're the architect of your own design where you're like i know i'm doing this and that's going to happen with that and this will tie into place with this and the fact that you're you know you're like i'm going to edinburgh i like doing it and you're you're you're someone who i've you know you know one of the first comics i've met in a long time that's like i like doing it i like you know getting to perform and if you're setting out shows and doing it it's a different vibe to if you're not setting out this is a privilege you know what we get to do you get to literally wake up and do your dream job i've said that on stage i'm like i'm so thankful that you guys have come like i never come to the interview work this is i'm at work now it's it's amazing when you get to when you get to have that so i'm like treat it treat it as a privilege yeah yeah oh man this has been a pleasure man honestly like so yeah that that petrol one every time I fill up now I'm gonna in my head I was just like I get a full tank innit ah but listen where can people get the tickets as well um for well actually everything emmanuelstandup.com okay I put all of my tickets on there all of the tickets are on there so if so so even if they don't go to the fringe they can find other tickets on there yeah yeah everything look all my Instagram everything is emmanuelstandup.com all of the stuff's on there ah Manuel it's been a pleasure my friend this has been your beginning bro middle and end thank you so much bruv I really really appreciate that hey what's up thank you so much for listening to the podcast today now a lot goes in to making each episode I know you hear my voice but there's a team behind the scenes who helped make it and if you did enjoy it I'd really really appreciate if you could show the love to them by giving us five stars and if you also have the time please leave us a review it's always appreciated and we love reading the comments and of course we want to keep making it better thank you for listening and have a great day peace