Brian Cox

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1:08Welcome to the Off Menu Podcast. Taking the wine of conversation, pouring it into the blender of the internet, hitting the blend button of friendship and pouring it into a lovely big glass of podcast, James.

1:20James Acaster: That's a gamble. My name is James Acaster. Together, we own a dream restaurant. And every single week we invite a guest and ask them their favourite ever start and main course dessert, side dish and drink. Not in that order. And this week, our guest is... Our secret guest is... Our secret guest is... Brian Cox! A returning guest. No, not a returning guest, but our first same-named guest, James. Because we've, of course, We've had the scientist Brian Cox, but he would never come back because we upset him by asking him questions about science. We now have the wonderful actor Brian Cox, James. What an actor, what a career, what a man.

1:53James Acaster: A national treasure, of course. National treasure. Absolutely love Brian Cox. I was a fan of Brian Cox for a long time, and then he did Succession and went to even higher heights. The stratosphere. So quite excited and intimidated, a little bit nervous about interviewing Brian Cox. What characters this man has played, James? Logan Roy of course Logan Roy of course but you've got to be looking at Hannibal Lecter yes well you pointed out this off William Stryker this is our first Lecter of course it's our first Stryker and our first Stryker yes our first Lecter not our first cannibal really Sebastian Stan did he play a cannibal of course he did play a cannibal yes he was trying to be Daisy Edgar Jones wasn't he little rascal yeah but well we can maybe ask Brian about human flesh yeah we have to yeah Got to ask the cannibals then.

2:42Yeah, we always have to ask the cannibals about human flesh and we always ask people who pick iced tea if they've met iced tea. Those are the two rules of the pod. We're bound to those and we can't help it.

2:51James Acaster: I have to tide when that happens. William Stryker, does he eat stuff? Not sure. I don't think he sees Stryker eat. Not really. Doesn't like mutants though. Doesn't like mutants, which is a shame. We'll probably drill into that. We'll drill into that because he should... Yeah. But as far as I'm aware, James, Brian Cox does not play a cannibal in his new film, Glenn Rothen. Lovely segue. Thank you. He's directed it. It's a directorial debut, which I'm always excited about when actors direct a film for the first time. Yes, you can get into the nitty gritty with him about the directorial process. Yes.

3:25And I'll just wait for the food stuff. Okay. Yeah. That's your prerogative. But interestingly, James, he plays in this film part of a family business. Alan Cumming is in this film, but they run a whiskey distillery. The family business is a whiskey distillery, which is a drink.

3:45James Acaster: Which is a drink, and this is a food podcast. So will he choose whiskey as his dream drink? Human flesh and whiskey.

3:54Not sure he does that in Manhunter.

3:57James Acaster: He's going to say human flesh and whiskey and then do that. Pretty sure he doesn't. Glenn Rothen comes out in UK cinemas this Friday 17th of April 17th of April it comes out we'll ask more about that get to speak to Brian more about that yes if of course he hasn't said the secret ingredient by then and then we'll have to kick him out we will have to kick him out yes and this week the secret ingredient is boar boar succession maybe specifically if he wants to eat it on the floor yes boar on the floor boar on the floor one of the most iconic scenes from succession which is let's face it a series of iconic scenes it's iconic scene after iconic scene and they all make sense in order crucial that's good writing yeah that's what I struggle with sometimes when I'm writing yeah sure I write iconic scenes yeah yeah but they don't make sense in order that's the thing with us stand-ups man yeah we write all these routines iconic scenes I call them which is iconic scenes yeah and then we have to like put them together in a show yeah but then you sit down and write a script that approach doesn't work doesn't work just go from that that idea to that idea willy nilly yeah you really appreciate there's people who write Succession yeah they really know what they're doing yes I'm going to ask him a lot about films and then tell him what he's been in give me a break I tell him he's been in so much stuff Super Troopers well done thank you it's a new one coming out really yeah pretty cool and this is on YouTube as well you're probably watching this on YouTube if you are watching it on YouTube or you're listening to it why not watch it on YouTube?

5:33James Acaster: Yeah, yeah do both see which one you like the best If you are just listening to this you do want to watch it because James got a new t-shirt on that I like Yeah, yeah, yeah this is fresh fresh on today Fresh tea, baby I saw Paul Mescal wearing something similar I don't think ever say that as a man never say you're wearing something because Paul Mescal was wearing it Really? Yeah Why? Because A you sound like a little bitch and B B no one looks like Paul Meskel apart from Paul Meskel I look pretty similar to him because of your lovely little earring well that's that's in the post I'm definitely going to do that you should dress more and more like Paul Meskel every episode yeah more and more like if I don't sit in it yeah until the inevitable Irish accent yeah but I'll never do like the exercise or anything or get buff no no no I'll dress exactly like him and do the voice yeah we've got to get him back on Yeah, tasting menu for Paul, if you're listening, Paul.

6:31Tasting menu for you, Paul. And don't be shocked when you arrive. James is going to be dressed exactly like you.

6:37James Acaster: But in which film? I'm glad I ate it. Glad I ate it too. This is the oven menu menu of Brian Cox, the actor and director.

6:56Welcome, Brian, to the dream restaurant. Well, so far it's nice to be here

7:02James Acaster: Welcome Brian Cox to the Dream Restaurant We've been expecting you for some time Can you say that again in English, please? Welcome Brian Cox to the Dream Restaurant We've been expecting you for some time I see, okay, bye James is a genie, so he's welcoming you to the Dream Restaurant Well, do you rub him up the wrong way? I rubbed him up the wrong way, yeah It's always good to rub the genie up the wrong way Because then he can shut the fuck up You know what I mean? Feel free to swear, by the way. Oh, I can swear. Yeah. Yeah, well, I never used to swear until I did this TV show and it's affected me.

7:36Now I'm telling everybody to fuck off on a regular basis. And people love it, right? People want me to tell them to fuck off, and it's the easiest thing to say. And they come up to me and say, can you tell me to fuck off? Fuck off. And they go, oh, no, wait. No, you've got to fuck off now. Fuck off.

7:54James Acaster: Do they ever interrupt you while you're trying to enjoy a meal? No, no, I wouldn't let them near me, no. I have strict instructions for restauranteurs to not allow anybody in. It's like the worst time is when you come out of the... Like, I went to the theatre to see this... Oh, God, what's the play called? I can't remember the title of the play. It was brilliant with Rosalind Shanks at the Wyndham's last night. It was a really excellent play, a really great play. But you come out and all these... You know, they're, could you sign this? Could you sign the next one? You know, you don't know. You could be signing a cheque for all your money.

8:25A lot of money could come at you. You just don't. and yesterday I finally had to turn around and said, well, you just all fuck off. And they go, they're like rats, they scamper away. But delighted as well. They got the fuck off, yeah.

8:38James Acaster: People shout poppadoms or bread at me and stuff like that because of this podcast. Do people shout fuck off at you? No. No. Because it wouldn't be more than their life's worth if they did that, quite frankly. Too scared. Yes, because I have a lot of equipment around me. Yeah, of course. you've just directed a film for the first time it's very exciting I love it when actors step into the director's chair I never expected to do it it was the last thing in the world I thought about I've acted for 65 years this is my 65th year of acting congratulations I'm dreading it so I've never really bothered about any of that and then finally my friend Neil Zyger came up and he said, David Ashton, who I've been doing, because I love the radio.

9:34The radio is my passion. That's the great thing about coming back here because they still do radio and they still have radio drama. You know, if you two have a problem, you should get yourself with the BBC drama rep because I'm sure you could do very well.

9:51Anyway, just giving you advice for the future. Thank you. I'll take it. Yeah, yeah. Keep it coming. But no, the radio is great. So he wrote this series called McCleavy, which I've done for 20 years, David Ashton. And then he wrote the script. And then Neil Zagas said, and you're directing it. And I said, what do you mean I'm directing it? He said, no, you're directing it. You're going to direct it. I said, well, that's the first time I've heard of it. He said, no, you're directing this film. So I said, oh, OK, I'll direct the film. And it was tough. But I loved it in the end. Because I realized that so much of what goes on in the cinema, especially with it's all about directors.

10:25and their concepts. And I can't fucking stand concepts, quite frankly. I want them to go and take their concept and shove it out their you-know-what, most of the time. But with somebody who just comes and does it, and especially when you've got the actors, you just let the actors do the job. And when you've got people like Shirley Henderson or people like Alan Cumming, you don't have to stand there and tell them what to do because they know what to do. Let them do it. But I think too many times we're all, James Cameron bound and there's always to be plastic but plastic that moves pretty well you know what I mean

11:03James Acaster: Now, we've been asked you a lot about food You had listened to the podcast but you have a few notes for us Yeah, I just think it's a wee bit bourgeois I really do think you're talking to a sort of middle class converted or even people who haven't quite made middle class who think, oh, this is another programme I can listen to about food aspiration So I'm going to talk about what it was like in the 50s. I was a child of the 50s. So I remember rationing. I remember when I did my sweetie ration. And my dad was a grocer, ironically. So I remember that there wasn't everything. And that's actually the interesting tradition about Scotland.

11:46Food is on hand. There are things that you, of course, prepare. But basically, it's what you've got. You deal with what you have, and that's why porridge and oats has been the biggest thing. I mean, they used to keep porridge, actually, in the old days, they would keep porridge in drawers so you could cut it and serve it, preheat it up. I didn't know that. I wouldn't think it would be a very nice porridge, but they did that in the past. So it was just ready to go. Ready to go. So it was a ready meal. They baked it, kept it in a drawer, and then you cut your slave, add your hot water, and there it was.

12:23And then usually they recommended, well, always it was honey because there was never any sugar. So honey was a very healthy aspect of it. And the food really fundamentally was a quite healthy food in that sense. And the same way that, for instance, I'm like the lunch that we would get. But that was the other thing. Lunch is a completely English concept because we don't have lunch in Scotland. We have dinner or dinner or dinner, depending which side of Scotland you come from. Where I come from, it's dinner. Where are you going for your dinner? And the dinner meant that that was your lunchtime. But lunch was never, so there was dinner, there was tea time, and there was supper.

13:09So you had dinner, tea time, supper. So dinner was a lunch, and that would probably be a soup of some kind, usually a ham broth soup. That was very popular within the working class community, that you got ham broth and you add vegetables to it and you cooked it up and it was delicious. Because it had all the natural ingredients from the bone, from the marrow of the bone, and that was your lunch. Or dinner, sorry. See, I've got some anglers. And then in the evening, you'd have your tea time and your tea time would be anything really. Sometimes it was usually bacon, you know, bacon and eggs for tea.

13:46Not for breakfast, but for tea. And then supper time was late at night. And then you had your fish and chips. Nice. So you had your fish and chips before retiring, which was always a bit odd, but it's true. And the great thing where I came from in Dundee is all the fish and chip shops were owned by Italians. They were all Italians. And they had these Italian Scottish accents. So I was a wee boy. I would go in there and I'd be mucking. And the guy would say, if you want the fish and the chips, eat the fish and the chips. If you don't want the fish and the chips, don't a muccaroon with a sack dish, which was the salt dish.

14:22And I said, sorry, sorry. That was the sort of, and it was this kind of accent that you could introduce. So you had the Esposito families, the Suavis, the Del Nevo's, the Pachones, all these Italian families cooking the best ever fish and chips ever. You know, they just had the right amount of batter. The haddocks were just incredible.

14:45James Acaster: Well, we always start with still sparkling water. Do you have a preference? You see, that's how bourgeois you get. We always start with still sparkling water because this is such a vital... You mean water with bubbles? Yeah, yeah, sorry. Would you like still water or water with bubbles, Brian? Water, yeah. Well, the problem is nowadays, because what they do, and everybody doesn't realise this now, fluoride is terrible. And there's so much water. There's fluoride in all our water now. And we should stop it. Because fluoride causes the deterioration of the brain. It's one of the things that contributes to Alzheimer's is fluoride.

15:25So you shouldn't drink anything with fluoride. Drink bottled water, but not fluoride in water. Okay. Because all the dentist people are going to say that. Because my dentist always gave me fluoride toothpaste, which I, and of course I'm now mentally deficient as a result. which you can tell by sitting here

15:43James Acaster: this is a podcast about the news you keep talking about food we keep on asking you about current events you keep on talking about dinner it's very concerning I didn't want to attempt the accent do you have a preference do you want fluoride free water fluoride free water is very important in a bottle yeah bottle of water Scottish water famous Scottish water but of course they put fluoride into the reservoirs you know and it's not good right and it was a big thing about the teeth and you know your teeth are fast even a corpse has good teeth the old phrase and when you find a skeleton it usually still has its teeth oh yeah skeletons say what you want about them fluoride is not a problem yeah Get rid of the fluoride and you'll be fine.

16:39James Acaster: We haven't had much fluoride chat on the pod. We very rarely have a corpse brought up at this point. Yeah, actually, it's the earliest someone's brought up a corpse. Especially in a positive. Yeah. Yeah. Pop-a-dum's on bread! Pop-a-dum's on bread! Brian Cox! Pop-a-dum. Pop-a-dum's nice. Pop-a-dum. I mean, that's the other thing, too, that the great thing about growing up is you get experience of other people's food. Yeah. You know, and I love that. I mean, for instance, where I live now is in Primrose Hill. And there's a wonderful Cypriot restaurant called Lamonia, which I recommend to anybody.

17:12It's probably, it's a Cypriot restaurant, which is Greek, but it's a family restaurant. It's been going for nearly 50 years, the people who run it. And the food, the kleftiko, is just, they have this lamb shank that they cook all day. It's a slow cooking lamb shank and it's absolutely delicious. And the other thing is, what's the famous cheese in Greek? Greek cheese. Halloumi? Halloumi. never touch it you never touch it no the best cheese they have is called Saganaki oh yeah have you tasted Saganaki I've had Saganaki have you had Saganaki no I've not tell us about Saganaki it's less squeaky than Halloumi it doesn't have the squeak yeah it doesn't it bakes very well you bake and it's hot you eat it hot it's absolutely delicious it's got more of a sort of stretch than Halloumi that's right yeah it's delicious it's really really good really really good oh I love it and so that's that's very good and then we have a very good fusion restaurant where they do a lot of stuff.

18:08So, you know, your food, that's why I couldn't say, oh, my ideal meal is this. I mean, my ideal meal is the one I eat when I'm hungry. We are going to force you to give your ideal meal, though, Brian. That is the format. Yeah, we're naughty boys. Yeah, we will. We understand it's an annoying question, because if someone asked me, what's your dream meal? I'd be like, well, it depends on the day. Well, it depends on the day. I like loads of things. Yeah, no, no, no, you can't. Actors have tried this with us in the past, and we know now we're going to have to nail you to the wall of course.

18:38James Acaster: You want all the dips for the poppadum? Yeah, I love poppadum. I love them. I love chapati and I love poppadums because the thinner the bread, the more purchase you get. Whereas the thicker the bread, it sort of absorbs it too much and you never get that extra thing that you get for me with a chapati or a poppadum. A dream starter for you, Brian Cox? Some kind of soup. Probably, I mean, this would, you know, different seasons. But the ideal soup for me is gazpacho. Oh, nice. We're going cold. Yeah. Lovely cold soup. Lovely cold soup is a great way to start the meal, you know. And it's healthy and it's vigorating and it sets you up.

19:20I think gazpacho is a great, great meal. But, of course, you would think more in the sort of summer season for gazpacho. Well, yes, it's more or less a summer thing, but I take it all the year round. I mean, you can get it all the year round nowadays, you know. And some of these gazpachos that they sell as gazpachos are really quite good. They're really quite good. When you think about your dream restaurant and the dream meal, do you have a particular place in mind or a particular season? Well, it depends really on the restaurant. You know, I mean, there's a wonderful restaurant now in Primrose Hill called Michael Madra.

19:56and that restaurant is just brilliant because the Sunday roast there is to die for. To die for. Their Yorkshire pudding, Michael's Yorkshire pudding is beyond a dream and if you ever want to have a really great good Sunday meal, can you travel? Oh yeah. We're allowed.

20:15James Acaster: I can travel. I'm allowed to Primrose Hill. My mummy says I can go there. You're allowed to go to Primrose Hill. I have to take the lamp with me, of course, because he's a genie. so I would have to go on go to Primrose Hill with a lamp and rub them up the wrong way but that Michael Nader is just I mean I've walked past that restaurant for 13 years and I didn't go into it and now I go there every Sunday it's just incredible this guy doesn't like Yorkshire puddings he always slags Yorkshire puddings I don't like Yorkshire puddings there's nothing to be said I mean I can't I'm speechless What makes these Yorkshire puddings special?

20:54Do you think even I, as a Yorkshire pudding denier, would like them? It's the Yorkshire pudding, but it's with the gravy. That's the thing that makes Yorkshire puddings. It's not just Yorkshire pudding on its own because it's too dry, but if you eat it, if you cut it and have it with the gravy, it's delicious. It's delicious. My issue with them is they take up too much real estate on the plate. It's laughable, isn't it? He's doing a cooking programme. It's too much real estate on the plate. It's too much real estate on the plate. Is this the right pursuit for you? I question that. I question your career choice.

21:30Good point, Brian. Look, they're huge and they taste like plate. Get a bigger plate. That's all you have to do. No one's said this to him before. Get a bigger plate, you moron. Get a bigger plate. If you're worried about the size of your... Just say, hey, chef. give me a bigger plate because I love your yours and pudding I don't want it to shrink so I'll I'll have in a bigger plate okay thanks Brian I'll ask for a bigger plate next time good that'll solve you

22:00James Acaster: a problem Brian before we continue I've got to tell you you're in three of my favourite films of all time can you guess just by your experience of me so far what those films are I have no idea you wouldn't even be able well I've done so many of them yeah I've done so many 65 years I've done over 200 movies. You have? Yeah. Well, I'll maybe ask you questions about them as we go on. Okay, okay. Then you don't have to reveal it and they'll guess from your question. Yeah, okay. So guess what film this is from this question. Yeah. Who do you think is the Zodiac Killer? Oh, the Zodiac Killer. Yeah, who do you think the Zodiac Killer was?

22:41James Acaster: I have no idea. Oh, come on, Brian. You were in the film. Yeah, I played the guy who defended Jack Ruby, by the way. Yeah. And he failed there. Miserably.

23:00Your dream main course, Brian. My dream main course. Ah. Well, I have two dream main courses, really. It depends on what I'm feeling like on a particular day. But I love lamb. so anything you know a lamb biryani or an Indian lamb I just absolutely adore and then I love the Greek thing is to go back to the fish the seabream I love the Greek seabream which is absolutely delicious and you get you got to bone it because it's quite bony but it really is a very very very tasty fish I think it's more tastier than the Dover Sol which is incredibly expensive but the seabrean was manageable. That would be grilled, like sort of barbecued.

23:47You'd have that on. Yeah, absolutely delicious.

23:50James Acaster: Yeah, really good. So you probably aren't going to enjoy us trying to make you choose between those two things. No. No.

24:01Should we do a few takes of each and then we can pick one later? It's up to you. I'll never listen to this.

24:08James Acaster: You will listen to it. I think you're going to listen to this. I think you'll listen back to this a few times I'll get my lawyer to listen to it that's what I have to do now all the time Brian you know you went too far you've got to learn to behave yourself I don't think you need to learn to behave yourself Brian fantastic we're loving it you've delivered my favourite monologue maybe in movie history adaptation? yeah when you play Robert McKee when I play Robert McKee for the listener you're giving a seminar and writing yeah about life you know he knows nothing about you know fuck all about life it's so good I mean when I blame Nick Cage by the way Nick Cage is such an undervalued actor he's amazing because in that film the way he acts with his twin is incredible yeah I mean to see what Nick does in that movie it's just it's an incredible performance yeah and it's not given the due respect that it deserves actually, because he's so eccentric Nick Cage, but he's one hell of an actor Oh, I love him Everyone's performances, I think Chris Cooper won an Oscar for that film Yeah, he's a wonderful actor I didn't know who Robert McKee was when I watched it I didn't know he was a real guy who gave these writing seminars Robert was very funny, because I remember when we were doing it and Robert was very nervous because they included them and they thought they were going to he was worried that they were going to humiliate him, but not at all.

25:41They had huge respect. And I said to him when we were, we did the scene when there's a scene in the bar between Nick and I afterwards, we were talking quite quietly and I said, and the guy came, the first assistant came up to the director, which was, what was it? What's his name? Lovely guy who directed it. Oh, Spike Jones. Spike Jones. Yeah. Spike came up to Spike and he said, well, finally, you've got your Obi-Wan Kenobi character. and I said, you know, and I told, I told McKee, Robert, I told him that and he went, oh, thank God, thank God, because he thought he was going to be rubbish, you know.

26:20Yeah. So he thought, oh, I'm Obi-Wan Kenobi, that's good.

26:24James Acaster: Do you remember much of that monologue? Yeah, yeah, if you ask me a quitter, I'll kill you. I'll reach out my long arm and scramble you. I don't do any do you remember much of that monologue do you remember it and why the fuck are you wasting my time with it I remember that line that's not quite the rhyme but I understand

26:52James Acaster: I can tell by the way you said it a child watches his mother beating to death on the steps of a church yes you did it in your own style I'd say you made it sound like you're stand up I would do it in my own style if I was playing that role I'm not going to nail it I'm going to do it how I would do it and the film probably wouldn't do very well different film Robert McKee wouldn't be as I don't think anyone would be calling that character Obi-Wan Kenobi if I performed it more C-3PO I would have thought so now go on no no

27:25feel free bro

27:29James Acaster: we can go half and half lamb and sea bream if you want yeah I mean that's fine I thought you'd be okay with that So it's a biryani, you want the lamb biryani Yeah, sort of lamb Yeah, with one of those exotic Indian sauces Do you have a particular go-to Indian restaurant that you'd like to go to? Unfortunately, no because we used to have an Indian restaurant up in Primer I tried to travel nowhere else but in my local area So we don't have an Indian restaurant, which is a great shame actually, there used to be one but there isn't one anymore So I have to go to Kensington or somewhere like that get a bus pass

28:13your dream side dish well I love peas I absolutely love peas I think peas are very underrated like Nick Cage the Nick Cage of the vegetable one that's very well put you know you're working with somebody very intelligent You should really be very thankful. Yeah, I have. I say this to him, Brian. He should be very thankful.

28:37James Acaster: He should thank me every day. I do thank you every day. No, that's right. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely that. What did you just say? He said the peas were the Nick Cage and the vegetables. Peas are great. I love peas. How do you want these peas prepared then for your dream meal? Just simple, soft, not too hard, and well-cooked in salt. and yeah, and then, because the gravy, you know, when you have a piece, the peas attract the gravy and that works very well. One of my other favourite films that you've done is with another director, I'm interested to hear what you're thinking because he's very particular and precise, is you and Rushmore.

29:20James Acaster: Oh. With Wes Anderson. Wes Anderson, yeah. Who you've worked with twice, is it? Twice, yeah. Yeah, you did Fantastic Mr. Fox as well. Which must have been very different, although he had you, when you were doing Fantastic Mr. Fox, he had you acting it out still? Is that right? Unfortunately, Michael Gambon was still alive then. So that sounds rather wrong. No, no, we're all... We've all got a lot more work now. Gambon's no longer with us. Why did I say it that way? Michael, he was very funny. He was just one of them. But I remember I played Iago to his hotel and he was just so naughty. Because in the mad scenes, he used to go, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you.

30:00You know, because nobody would understand that he was saying, I love you, yeah, I love you. And I'm going, Michael, don't do that to me when I'm on stage. He's going to be throwing. You know, and he'd stop acting. He'd build up to something and I'm going, oh, yes. And then he'd stop. And I said, where have you gone? He's notorious, but brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. So you were both in Fantastic Mr. Fox doing the voices. Yes, I did. Well, I actually originally was playing that part that he played. Oh, I see. And then I was replaced. Oh, got it. So there was a lot of bitterness about that. Yeah, yeah.

30:32Well, he didn't replace you in Rushmore, which you were fantastic in. No, he didn't place me in Rushmore. Well, Rushmore was the first film, so I couldn't have been replaced. Because the only one he made before that was Bottle Rocket.

30:41James Acaster: Yes. Yeah. He got to do a bit more of his own thing with Rushmore. Was there a sense of like... Well, Rushmore, I think Rushmore is good. I think he's become very fantastical, you know. I mean, he followed the fantastical Mr. Fox. Yeah, yeah. He's become more Mr. Fantastical than Mr. Fox. so I still like Wes but it's an acquired taste shall we say yeah he's got more and more precise and being able to do whatever he wants just in terms of his visual sense and he always has great actors he's lucky that way he worked with Bill Murray did a lot of his films and then Rafe Fiennes has done the hotel Grand Budapest Hotel which was really excellent really excellent is it true that Bill Murray financed a lot of Rushmore as well I don't know about that so I wouldn't swear to it I know it could be possible it could be possible but he probably needed the work so he probably needed some kind of you know something that could show his craft so he probably may have decided to finance it chuck a bit of money at it why not I might start doing that oh yeah yeah buy myself parts in films that's pretty good yes but it's a sticky end you know because they always go that's the guy that's parts of the film too late I'm in a film yeah yeah they can't do nothing about it I've been in a film with Bill Murray of course have you?

32:10of course Brian doesn't know this have you seen Ghostbusters Frozen Empire Brian?

32:14James Acaster: what? Ghostbusters Frozen Empire no no well James is in that I'm Lars Pinfield you probably know the character no I have no idea who you're talking about what is it? you know Ghostbusters Yeah, they still make them. And there's Ghostbusters. Well, there was the female Ghostbusters. Yeah, after that. So then they made a couple more. And there's one called, the most recent one is called Ghostbusters Frozen Empire. And James plays Lars Pinfield. Oh, right. Scientist. Yeah. Is that made here? Yeah, in Redding. Yeah, we made it in Redding. Yeah, yeah, mainly. There seems to be an act of desperation about that.

32:51No, no, no, not desperate. No, not desperate. No, not desperate at all. Do you mean making it in Reading or casting James? No, no, no, not casting James. Sorry, I didn't mean that, James. I meant making it in Reading. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why? Because Ghostbusters was originally set in New York.

33:07James Acaster: New York, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But, you know, Reading's very similar to New York, though. You've been there. No, I've always tried to avoid it. Oh, well, you should go. It's like the New York of the UK. Yeah. Very New York, Brian. You must have missed out.

33:26James Acaster: your dream drink. Now, we're excited about this because obviously... Margarita. Okay. We were going to make a wonderful connection between drinks and the new film. Obviously, there's a whiskey. I used to drink a lot of whiskey. But eventually, you can't really drink a lot of whiskey you get to my age. Right, okay. You have to sort of temper it a bit. I mean, my favourite whiskey is still my favourite whiskey and I occasionally will... I'll have a smell of it more than even a drink of it Because actually even smelling whiskey is as good as drinking it. And people don't realize that. So it's called Lagavulin.

34:01Oh, yeah. And it's the peaty whiskey. It's an Eile whiskey. It comes from the same river as Eile. What's the other whiskey called? It comes from Eile. His name's gone. Anyway, it's the same. You should know that.

34:18James Acaster: My dad loves this whiskey. Yeah, it's the same river. It's the same river, but it's different. But one is, this is the peasy. It's the part of the river which has really got that peat taste. And it does that. When you drink it, it goes down, and then it makes a sort of pa in the centre of your body. It just goes pa, and it's wow. It's amazing how you can acquire that sort of taste, because my dad drinks that sort of whiskey, and I remember maybe when I was 16 or 17, he was like, have a taste of this. And I literally could not believe a human being was putting that in their mouth. He cried. It was mad.

34:50I didn't cry. You told me you cried. I've never told you this story before. We've done 300 episodes. All right, boys, all right. Sorry, Brian. I don't want to throw a bucket of water over you. We don't like doing this in front of guests normally, sorry. The peaty and just the way it feels in your mouth and it absolutely takes your head off. But now I would absolutely drink. Yeah, but the thing is, you don't let it sit in your mouth. You have to swallow it. So the thing is to breathe in, take it, and that's when it hits there, when it gets into the gut and it does that pow and it spreads through your bottle.

35:23Yeah. Amazing. In fact, you made me want to drink of it.

35:27James Acaster: It's one of my dad's favourite whiskeys. When I go home to see my parents, if he's got a bottle of that, we'll stay up and have a bit of a chat. No, it's a great whiskey. A really great whiskey. But I do drink margarita. A margarita is good. Well, tequila is really quite healthy because it's from the agave plant. So it's a very healthy drink, you know, actually, believe it or not. I mean, apart from any of the syrup stuff that they add to it. But actually, tequila itself is really good. And it's an upper. It's the only alcohol. It is an upper. Yeah, it is an upper. It's not a depressive. Yeah.

36:01No, you don't get very many tequila drunks falling off pubs. You do get whiskey drunks falling off pubs, not tequila drunks. Do you have anywhere that makes an amazing margarita that you go to? I haven't. Well, the guy who did it was a guy when I was doing Rat in the Skull in the 80s, and we went to New York, and there was a guy called Neville who was from Jersey, and he used to make them in the bar, which was, I can't remember the name of the bar, but they were the best I've ever had, and I haven't had any since. Because he was very special. He did them very special.

36:36James Acaster: Did you do the salt round the rim and stuff? Yeah, the whole thing. When you're drinking it with the salt round the rim, are you rotating the glass with every sip, or are you just drinking the same bit every time? No, no, no. You should rotate the glass. That's the idea, you know, and the salt. The salt sort of alleviates the sweetness. Yeah. Which is, and I, it's really, I love it. It's good. The salt around the rim is so important. I was speaking to someone recently who was like, I don't like the salt around the rim. So they have a sugar rim. No, no. Which is madness to me. Well, it's insane.

37:07It's not treating the drink properly. Yeah. I mean, you know, these drinks like margaritas, they've come to their own identity through years of refining and refining and refining, you know, and they know that that salt makes that egg. Because it's quite a sweet drink, but it stops it being overly sweet. And that's why the salt around the room is very important. And a lot of people, you know, if I go to a bar and they serve it without salt, I will refuse to drink it. I say, no, no, the proper margarita has to be salt around the room. I completely agree.

37:40James Acaster: When you're, this is what I'm thinking while we're talking to you, when you're improvising on the succession, do you think the other actors find it quite intimidating? Because you're playing Logan Roy, so you're even more kind of like an imposing figure. I didn't improvise all that much. You didn't that much? No. I felt, I didn't feel the need to improvise. You know, I mean, the genius of improvising who was terrified of it when we started was Kieran Culkin. Yeah. and Kieran became a genius. But he was panicked when he was first asked to improvise. I remember he said, what do I do? I said, well, you make it up.

38:19And he said, really? I said, yeah, it's fine. You just make it up. Whatever you feel is happening to your character at the time, and you just go with it. And then we couldn't stop him. He was like a tap that we turned on, and we couldn't turn it off. He was brilliant. He was brilliant. And he's got so much success now, and he deserves it, because he's a really, I mean, and that boy was, you know, he comes from a very troubled family. You know, they've had a lot of tough time, that family. And, you know, his sister was killed in a car accident. And they were a very close, very close lit father family.

38:55And, you know, before he came to do Succession, he had a really tough time. And now he's flying, and he deserves to, because he's a wonderful, and he's a wonderful guy too.

39:08James Acaster: Is there members of the cast who you still keep in contact with quite a lot? Well, unfortunately, no, because of work. You know, you move on to somewhere else, and you're not doing with your team. And that was a great team. I mean, working with that team for all the years that I worked with them, you know, five, six years now, over five or six years. It was four seasons, but it was over six years. And they were just divine. I mean, all of them were great, even Jeremy Strong. no Jeremy's a wonderful actor he's fantastic he's a wonderful actor and to play with he's great he has a lot of other stuff but the playing with Jeremy there was never a time when I didn't enjoy doing a scene with Jeremy and there was always an adventure in the scene you know I was thinking the other day about like just like the very few TV series that even have more than one good season let alone like four in a row wrap it all up everything's brilliant about it all the characters are memorable the writing like it's so hard to get so many people all working at that higher higher level that's Jesse Armstrong that really is Jesse Armstrong I mean he has that he has a unifying quality about him and people and we want to work for Jesse we want to do our best for him he's a wonderful producer wonderful and it was a great show and it was always an adventure you know some of the still my favourite line is I love you but you're not serious people It's still my very, and it says the whole thing, really.

40:40That was my only caveat about me, as I felt he put too much pressure on the young people because we'd had so much about what their debate was throughout probably, certainly the first, the last series of the third series. There was a lot of that, and then into the fourth series. but I felt that they should have killed me off one episode later because it was a burden for them to repeat, go through what they had to go through again. So sometimes, and I think Jesse agrees with me, I think it became a bit repetitive in a way. Really? Yeah, but it's still brilliant. I mean, it still stands brilliantly of any show I've ever done.

41:24I still think it's one of the best things I've ever done, just as an ensemble piece, just fantastic. but I think Jesse had he's just an extraordinary man to work with there's a sort of and the fact that he went only to four series I thought was incredibly brave I mean everybody thought oh we can get another series out of this I knew it was called succession and you've got to see a time when they do the succession bit but that was my only feeling just one episode later it could have been set off I mean, it's still the same idea.

42:01James Acaster: Yeah, I mean, that episode where your character does die, it's one of those few episodes of TV I can remember where I was sitting in my living room when I was watching it because it was such a... Shock. Yeah, I was like, I can't believe I'm doing this now. And in that sense, it worked brilliantly. I still think we could have had the shock, but I think we could have done one later. And it would have alleviated the stuff that the kids had to do afterwards. Uh-huh. How many different places do you sit in your living room? I could tell you where I'm sat in my living room when I watch anything. I would sit on the sofa because I've got cats, man.

42:36Oh, yeah. He's got a lot of cats. I've got cats. How many cats have you got? Well, sadly, Pichy, who is our eldest cat, who is... I'm not an animal person at all, but Pichy was just this extraordinary... I thought he was a bit needy for me, you know, but he's just passed away, and he was 19. Wow. Yeah, and he was just pure love. The Kelly's pure love. Because it was always, you know, there on your lap. At first I thought, because I'm not very good with all of that anyway. But then in the end, in the last days of his life, we used to sit on the sofa together and we'd talk. Yeah. I would talk to him and he'd go, you know.

43:24I mean, probably I would have been certified. I bet it would be when he discovered me. I talk to my cat all of the time. I think I know what he's saying. I'm like, yeah, I'm agreeing with him. Brian's had too much fluoride. That's what everyone's worried about. Exactly. Exactly. But the wonderful thing about cats is they're so self-possessed. Yeah. You know, they don't need anything. You know, they do that. You know, that's a problem with dogs. You've got to wipe up their shit.

43:52James Acaster: That's Benito's life. Yeah. He's wiping up shit all the time, that guy. He's a dog owner. I feel for you. But, you know, it's just, cats don't do that. Cats do their own thing, so when they're affectionate, it feels like a privilege. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. I know, of course, I took it for granted that, you know, with Pishi, I took it for granted. We've got another cat who's equally 19. She's still going, princess. Wow. And then we've got this little bruiser called Bowie, who's one of those grey cats. Yeah. I think they're a special breed. Yeah. I met a similar one in California, which was exactly the same looking cat with the same behaviour, very stroppy.

44:30Yeah. Very stroppy. A British short hair, maybe? Yeah. The grey-blue ones. Yeah, the grey-blue ones. Yeah, that's something. Yeah, beautiful cats. Beautiful cats, but they can be a bit, you know. For instance, she was a female, and she didn't get on with Princess. There was a lot of rowing between Princess and her. You know, the females, when they get together, they don't, the males, they don't bother, but the females, they get, ahhh! A lot of that goes on.

44:56James Acaster: we arrive at your dream dessert Brian my favourite course Kranichan okay here we go now you know fully well we don't know you're so happy with yourself that we don't know what that is you know what that is? yeah oh sorry I'm the ignorant one Kranichan is do you want to say what it is? raspberries yes cream yes oats in there as well yes a bit of whiskey maybe yes absolutely and honey and honey get in the fucking bin mate I know what it is call me off for the crowd I'm in the bin also now in itself you can now serve it semi-frozen so it's really cool oh nice and that's really delicious and that's that's a fantastic sweet and again it's the Scottish I mean of course the boys who went to Eaton called a thing called Eaton Mess and all they did was stole Kranachan and called it an Eaton Mess because Eaton is a mess anyway so it's understandable yeah I hope it burns to the ground I hope Eaton burns to the ground and then they can call that a mess I think you've gone a bit too far.

45:56James Acaster: Oh, sorry. Steady on, James. Well, is this the first time we've had it on the podcast? I think it's the first time we've had Kranican on the pod. Yeah. Do you have good memories of it? Do you remember when you first had it? No, I think I had it. I can't remember when I first had it, but I think it was in Edinburgh I first had it. At somebody's house. And I just thought, wow, what is this? I didn't know anything about it, you know, about Kranican. It's really good. It is a combination of some of the best Scottish products. And that's the other thing. It is Scottish products, and it's products of the ground.

46:32It's raspberries, and it's oats, and it's whiskey. And also, they insist, and I don't even know what that is, but they say that the best honey is heather honey. Do you know what heather honey is? I know it exists, and I could probably taste it and say that's heather honey, but I don't know how the heather's getting in there, or what stage they're putting the heather in. Well, the bees must screw the heather to get the honey. It must be what it is. Good on him. So it's randy little bees. Randy little bees, yeah. Screw the heather. Hey, guys. I think we've had it with the flowers. Let's go to the heather.

47:11We're coming, Heather. We're coming for you. We will be there very soon.

47:16James Acaster: These horny American bees. You should have been in that bee movie that Seinfeld made. you could have been a very cool horny bee character who loves the heather I'd watch that I'd watch that for sure we do have to ask you Brian this is very important if scientists found dark matter and brought it back what if it was evil what would you think what is dark matter finding the dark matter out in the cosmos they're looking for it aren't they they're looking for dark matter, a lot of these scientists, but what if they find it and it's evil? But they're in a ship. They're going to get out of their ship.

47:58James Acaster: I think they might have to get out of their ship to scoop it up maybe. Scoop up dark matter. Yeah, yeah, if they scoop it up. But like, they're so keen to find it, these scientists, but they haven't really considered like, what if it's evil? So do you think... Also, what if it's there? Yeah. Yeah, what if it's there? But like, but what if it's evil, Brian? I find it, I mean, they're scientists, so they should know what the constitution of dark matter is. But they don't because they've never found it before, is what I'm worried about. Yeah, but they're going to be interested. And you're worried about this as well.

48:32I'm worried about it. Are you worried about space? What's in space? No, I don't give a shit about what's in space, quite frankly. You know, it's there, you know. I mean, it's too big a concept. You go nuts. I mean, that's why people go mad, because they imagine what's going on out there, and they think instead of what's going on in here. I mean, that's the problem. Human beings are so incredibly stupid. Haven't you noticed? Yes. Oh, yeah, for sure. They are so stupid. And they make the same. All you have to do is sit in a car driving with people and you see the stupidity of drivers. I mean, they're like idiotic.

49:09Idiotic in their behavior, idiotic in the way they drive, idiotic in the way they park, idiotic in every aspect. That's why I don't drive anymore. where I stopped driving. Mind you, I did have a T-bone crash where somebody tried to kill me, but that was a different thing.

49:23James Acaster: Still food-related, the T-bone? Yeah, it was a T-bone. Yeah, yeah, so that's good. It still ties in with the pod. They've just gone around the other side of the moon. Have you been reading about this thing? Oh, yeah, yes, yes, yeah. I was thinking, why are we doing that? Well, I mean, the point is, they go around the other side, what they call the dark side of the moon, and they realise, oh, no, it's sunny. And you go... That's huge. I could have told you that. Ask Brian next time Because if the sun's shining there It's going to be hitting the backside of the moon It's only It's only logical No scientists Go, oh would you believe it The dark side of the moon isn't dark anymore It's got sunshine all over it Oh I find that incredible Don't you find it incredible too Nigel?

50:10Oh yes I find it Absolutely incredible This is it we've got to see a one man show from you Brian at some point about going to the dark side of the moon of course Pink Floyd may have to change that song but their career's ruined they're like a bunch of idiots now

50:32James Acaster: so just to conclude you don't you do think that dark matter is evil or you don't think it is I don't give a shit about dark matter don't give a shit about it that's the ruling I mean, really, I think there are other things in life to worry about other than the dark matter. Well, we had the other Brian Cox on the podcast, and he told us that it wouldn't be evil. Well, I'll go along with him. I don't know. Do you think that guy knows what he's talking about? Yeah, of course he knows what he's talking about. I'm not Brian Cox. He's a very nice and very intelligent man, far more intelligent than I am.

51:07You've hung out with him? Isn't that confusing? Yes, we've hung out together. That's confusing, isn't it, for you? That must blow people's minds if they see you together. Yeah. Because you've got the same name. Oh, that's right. That's why it blows people up. That's why they want to blow people up. Yes. Because we have the same name. Same name. Yeah, but he's a different Brian Cox. Oh, yeah. I mean, there are many Brian Coxes in the world, unfortunately. There are a lot of them. But, no, I have great respect for him. And he's usually very right about it. And there's something logical about Brian Cox.

51:41Not about this one, not about that one.

51:43James Acaster: We had him on this podcast and I don't know, Brian, if you heard him on this, you'd think like, we'd probably question his credentials. He got quite frustrated with us, I'd say, because we kept asking him if Dark Matter would be evil or not. And he probably thought that was a ridiculous question. Yeah, I think he did. So why do you keep asking the question about Dark Matter? Well, I knew that you'd take it more seriously and you did and I appreciate it. we really appreciate it. I don't give a toss about Dark Matter. Well, you know, You know, there are other things, there are other priorities. Oh, hey, darling, before we make love, can we discuss dark matter?

52:19Because I'm really concerned about it. Are you concerned? I don't give a shit, Brian. Well, somebody's concerned about it. The guy on the podcast, he's really obsessed with dark matter. I didn't even know what it was. I thought maybe is it shit? Is it shit that somebody shits out in outer space? That could be dark matter, you know, flying turds. yeah it could be flying turds see this is good this is how science happens we're pushing the conversation forward

52:45James Acaster: it could be flying turds but I agree with you that if you bring it up as you're about to make love it is going to be a mood rooter especially if you segue to flying turds exactly I'd go post post-coital for that discussion yes post-coital post-coital you both collapse onto the pillow my head let me just do time I can't do any post-coital discussion

53:09save me save me save me save me you're you're our uh second cannibal we've had on the pod

53:17James Acaster: cannibal yes you had another cannibal we had sebastian sebastian stan played a cannibal once and now you are the second person we've had on who's played a cannibal it's the 40th anniversary of when i played that cannibal yeah this year that's amazing yeah 40 years still a better a film than the other ones. Yeah, the other ones are cack. Absolute cack. I mean, they're good films, but... Yeah. Look, Brian wouldn't like Sunless and the Lamb. I love both films, but... He wants his lamb sizzling and on his plate. He doesn't want it silent. Yeah. I had my revenge on that. Did you? Yeah, I cast the director, Jonathan Demme, in a TV thing I did.

54:01I had to have a director. and I was going for Jim Jarmusch to start with. I thought he's too socialist. And I thought, Jim Jarmusch. I thought, I know what? Jonathan Demme. And I can get my own back. And at one point, Jonathan Demme, I said, Jonathan, can I just say something? One of the things that actors don't do is look into the camera. It's very disconcerting when an actor looks into the camera. So could you please not do that? Because he did have a habit of looking at it. God rest his soul, because he's no longer with us. But I said, Jonathan, please, try and avoid that if you can. Oh, I love that.

54:44James Acaster: If at the end of your dream meal, say we had to send out some human flesh for you to eat. No. Which part of the person? I'm not a cannibal. But we have to. Our hands are tied in. I'm not a method actor either. We've established this. We certainly would not eat anybody. Yeah, no. We have to. What do you mean we have to? We have to send out some human flesh for you. No, you don't. We have to. Our hands are tied. Then you can't send if your hands are tied. You can send out from your flesh. Good point. If you had to be a bit of a person, if you had to be a bit of Ed. No, is he losing it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

55:23It's best to just let this ride out. It's best to answer, actually, Brian. So what part of me would you eat? No, I'm not. No, that's buying into his fantasy. I'm not fucking buying into his fantasy. His fantasy is his own fantasy. He should be hospitalised.

55:40Gladly. Gladly, yeah. I agree. Take me to hospital. Yeah.

55:45James Acaster: Right, I'm going to read you your menu back now, see how you feel about it. You would like fluoride-free bottled Scottish water. You would like poppadoms with all the dips. You would like a gazpacho for your starter. How did you get that so quickly? Huh? I was reading your menu oh really yeah yeah your main course lamb biryani with greek sea bream as well side dish peas of course drink margarita and dessert now I don't really know how to pronounce it Kranachan give it a good go Kranachan Kranachan Kranachan Kranachan Kranachan Kranachan Kranachan Kranachan yes yes you can by all means that's your menu you're quite impressed how I got it so fast well yeah

56:37James Acaster: it is impressive it's impressive isn't it you're going to reveal the trick you thought I should be hospitalised but look how clever I am well that still doesn't avert the need for your hospitalisation yeah fair enough Brian thank you so much for coming to the Dream Restaurant you're welcome what if we just sent you some of his earlobe Will you eat that? No. I'm not eating anybody's earlobe. I mean, I'll suck on a few, but I'm not going to eat any. Before making love. Yes. Instead of discussing dark matter. The earlobe can be a great tender place. Yeah. It's a shame we've got to end the interview here.

57:11Because we're going down a path that I did not expect we were going down. Well, there you go. Tender places. Tender places. Always end it tenderly. Thank you so much, Brian. You're welcome. Thank you, Brian. Thank you. This is one of the worst things I've done for weeks.

57:27But I'm very glad to have done it because I realize we'll never be doing it again. But thank you. You're both geniuses in your own field. I'm still trying to find out where that field is. But you are geniuses in your own field, I take it. So thank you for the lack of validity of this whole experience.

57:56Well, there we are, James.

57:56James Acaster: That's us told. Whoa, we got roasted at the end. We got roasted. Roasted on the way out. By Brian Cox. I'd moved the mic away from my face because I thought we'd done. Yeah, he wasn't done. And then he roasted us. I was like, I can't even respond to this. I absolutely loved it. I love being roasted by Brian Cox. It was good stuff. He didn't say boar. He didn't even talk about boar on the floor, actually. No, it didn't come up. Well, that would have been harsh for us to bring it up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been tricking him. We didn't talk about Autolab. Yeah. We didn't talk about the wine in the blender.

58:28James Acaster: Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of things that we could have brought up there. He's actually not in a lot of those scenes, though, to be fair. Sure, sure, sure, sure. So that would have been a weird thing to bring up. I think we learned so much about him, about not just his career, but his view on the cosmos, life, directors, what he thinks of them, what he thinks of people's work, what he thinks of us. We definitely learned. Benito came out of that unscathed, I'd say. The worst thing he's done in months. yes he did say that yeah he did say it's one of the worst things he's done in months it energised me I've never really been insulted like that to such an extent that it energised me yeah gave me a buzz Glenn Rovin is out this Friday go and see it Brian Cox's directorial debut Alan Cummings in it yes come on come on uh whiskeys you know maybe take uh a lager margarita yeah of course sorry margarita but a lager or than whiskey with you to the cinema yeah and watch it just drink and feel it pop from a little hip flask pop right in here I'm on tour at Gamble at Dakota UK for tickets my show's called Fresh Hell going all over the UK starting in late January 2027 come along come along go and see Ed do his stand up comedy I am also touring with my show James Acaster until August jamesacaster.com for tickets yes I'm in Blackpool tomorrow and Friday and I don't know I don't think they're sold out to be honest I think one of them is and one of them isn't so you know come along if you're in Blackpool it's actually the perfect location for this show specifically yes because James is on Strictly oh Ed we're not allowed to say that thank you very much for watching slash listening we will see you next week bye fuck off

1:00:52We'll see you next time. And I can keep track from my phone while I get the job done. No spreadsheet in sight. What a life. Do right by yourself and your business and search Xero for your free trial. Conditions apply.