Marian Keyes

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3:07Welcome to the Off Menu podcast, opening the food delivery app of conversation and ordering a Chinese takeaway of friendship. It's come to this. It's a lazy night. it's a lazy night sometimes you don't want to cook order a Chinese takeaway

3:21James Acaster: that is lazy lazy Ed Gamble I'm lazy James Acaster and together we own a lazy dream restaurant in lazy town in lazy town where that guy does keep fit stuff yeah yeah Sportacus Sportacus shout out together we own a dream restaurant every single week we invite in a guest we invite him in and we ask him their favourite ever star Sportacus has fried me off we invite him in we ask him their favourite ever star and make us a side dish and drink night in that order and today our secret ingredient fuck me Sportacus is really throwing you off Sportacus man what was the name of the bad guy Benito I wasn't Sportacus no he wasn't the bad guy Sportacus but the guy with like quite an imposing face Robbie Rotten and this week our secret oh fuck me I've done it again this week our guest our special guest is Marion Keys Marion Keys sorry Marion if you're listening that is the worst we've ever done an intro and we should re-record it but it was a laugh how bad it was.

4:22James Acaster: Yes. I don't think she's listening to this. She's going to be here in a minute. Do you think our guests listen back to it? Not many of them, I'm sure. I wonder. Because it's an awful, awful experience. Yeah, they don't like it. De Niro, yes. De Niro definitely listened back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. De Niro definitely did. A wonderful writer. Yes. A smash hit author, James. Yeah. So good. Very excited to have Marion on the podcast. We don't have enough like authors on the podcast. That's because they're not normally a laugh. Yeah, sure. And I've seen Marion on a lot of stuff and she's definitely fun and she knows how to do a good interview.

4:57Yeah, she's fantastic. And a lot of authors

5:00James Acaster: just sit in a little room and they're up their own arse. They are a lot of authors if you're listening, which they won't be because I bet they don't listen to anyone else but themselves waffling on. Oh, I don't need to listen to anyone else. I've got all the characters in my head. Give over. Yeah, yeah. Give over. Benito whispered give over yeah yeah Marion's new book My Favourite Mistake is out now it's already a multi-million copy bestseller that's it's mind-blowing right yeah like especially like this day and age it's got to be even harder like to sell a physical book yeah yeah yeah millions of times yeah that's got to be good that's got to be a good book and what it's a 16th or 17th book she knows her way around a novel man yeah big time and I'm happy to say that to her when she's in and of course Marion has a podcast with Tara Flynn called Now You're Asking which is available on BBC Sounds and the Walsh Sisters is currently being filmed for BBC at the minute we don't know when it's coming out but it's being filmed in Dublin right now based on one of Marion's novels very excited to see it yes she's got a lot going on she's incredibly talented she's incredibly busy so we are very grateful that she's given us some of her time to talk about her dream menu yum yum yum but before we bring her in there is a special guest that if she says it then she gets kicked out.

6:15James Acaster: Oh no, sorry. There is a secret ingredient and if she says it she'll be kicked out of the dream restaurant. Yes. And this week the secret ingredient is Timento. Timento. Yes, Timento from Robert Popper's episode. Robert Popper invented this. Yes. So the likelihood of it actually being chosen is none really. What was it again? Huh? Timento. It was like tomato juice with creme de mante or something wasn't it? That's it. It was tomato juice with creme de mante. invented it. Yeah, yeah. Revolting, fictional, doesn't exist. But then, this is where Marion lives, is the world of fiction. Yes. So maybe she will pick a fictitious drink.

6:56James Acaster: Maybe her author's brain will conjure it up out of the ether. So if it's not conjuring it up if someone else has already conjured it up, right? Yeah, but like, it's not in the zeitgeist, she doesn't know that. It is in the zeitgeist. To Minto. It's on the Off Menu podcast. We are the zeitgeist, James. Oh, yeah. I forgot that we dictate the zeitgeist. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Fair enough. We're really excited to speak to Marion. I think we should just get on with it, James. Let's just get on with it, Ed. This is the off-menu menu of Marion Keys.

7:32Welcome, Marion, to the dream restaurant.

7:35James Acaster: Thank you for having me. Welcome, Marion Keys, to the dream restaurant for spending you for some time. Did you enjoy the genie the genie welcome there? I did. I loved it. It was quite good. Yeah, multi-sensory experience. Thank you. Do you want to list the senses that you experienced it on? Touch. Yeah. Psychic vision. Yeah. Yeah. Astral travelling. Yeah, a lot. It was a lot. It was beautiful. Yeah, it was intense and fabulous. No sound though. No sound, no. And couldn't see anything with my actual eyes, but in my head, I saw a lot. yeah mainly emotional yes yes yes a psychic spiritual all of them things yeah that's a big experience for the beginning of a podcast isn't it yeah think you'd ever write a story about a genie write a book about a genie I haven't yet but after today there's every chance yeah I could inspire yeah we could collaborate well I think half of that book would be unreadable yeah my half yeah yeah we'll bring you in to polish it and tidy it and do all of them things yeah yeah yeah yeah I don't know what I'm doing You just turned down a collaboration with Marion Keys, man.

8:41I thought it would have ruined it. Yeah, fair enough. Are you kidding me? Okay, we'll park it, but it was a lovely idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

8:47James Acaster: No, we could, that's bad, that's bad on my part. I should just accept it. To be honest, no, I'm an awful collaborator as well. Yeah. I'm too much of a people pleaser. Also, a secret control freak. So I would say yes to everything you suggested, but then I would go away and I would stew with fury. And, you know, let's not. Yeah. we won't would you make the changes I'd suggest or would I get it back and it would be the same as when it was before and you would just hope that I wouldn't notice yeah and I would yeah I would send it back to you and I would say thank you I have inputted all your changes all your suggestions you have made this a million times better than it originally was and you'd feel great yeah hopefully and I probably wouldn't know you probably wouldn't know people do that to me a lot yeah you know they say you know thank you for that suggestion I'm how do you call it I'm an executive producer on a TV thing at the moment that's been made of my books which means that I can make suggestions The Walsh sisters Yeah but they don't do anything you know they go thank you Marion that's great that's really really good we're going to incorporate that we'll bring that up at our next meeting and then nothing changes but I feel kind of I get the warm glow of yeah the TV people value me you know so I still feel good Yeah even though you know that they've done nothing based on your suggestions I know that I am being humoured.

10:08Yeah. But they're being kind about it, which means a lot, really. Is that how you work with your editors as well when you're writing a book? Do they even, do they meddle at all now? Oh, they do. Oh, no, they do. They do. I have a lovely editor and she's been my publisher for like, I don't know, 27 years or something like that. But I do as much as I can. I don't kind of give them bits and pieces as I go. I, you know, give them the final book and then she will come back with, I mean, But she does that snow thing of kind of like, oh, my God, you have surpassed yourself with this one. And then there's about three days and she goes, we're just going to tinker around to do a couple of things.

10:45Me and Grace, who is her assistant. And then it comes back and it's pages and pages and pages of stuff. And then I am in a blind fury and I stomp around the house and I stamp up and down the stairs because they're wooden and they make a lot of good noise. And I say, if they're so feckin' fantastic at writing feckin' books, why don't they feckin' do it? and then and then I process it and I think well they want it to be as good as it can be so then I kind of go okay I will do two-thirds of what they've suggested but they will never get me to do the blah blah blah and that's fine because they put in more stuff than they actually want because they know I won't do it all and it's like yeah we have a really lovely working relationship because we understand those unspoken bits yes that like they know that I won't do it all and I know they've given me more things than they actually want so it's good but you'd never say that to each other because no they might know now um but um but but we still wouldn't say it some things don't need to be said face to face yeah it's like it really it works really well they're very kind to me and like I want my books to be as good as they can be and like you have to have somebody from the outside saying do this do that and oh Christ that doesn't work but in a way that kind of saves face yeah yeah and saves the relationship you still want to think it's all your own thing that's it but yeah because it'd be awful if they came back and said a massive change oh god yeah and then that was the thing that made it your best book yeah exactly i mean yeah but it's almost as bad when if they came back and said thrilling thrillingly perfect not a single word needs to be changed because that can't be the case you know there has to be some pain with

12:32James Acaster: the praise there has to be and when when you've uh you've turned in a book and they've been like oh we think this may be these fix in here of all the little mistakes you may have made do you have a favorite mistake haha nice one segue very very good a segue that's a good that's a good it's Excellent. It was good. It was magnificent. Come on. I didn't see it coming. Yeah, yeah. I don't think we needed a segue like that necessarily because we were already talking about writing books. But we moved from the general to the specific. Yes, yeah, yeah. Come on now. Yeah, yeah. I would have just gone with, well, this new book.

13:09Okay, also nice. Also nice. Yes, yeah. We know where we are with that. Yeah.

13:15James Acaster: You see segues. But his was seamless. Yes. Yeah. James was seamless. You wouldn't describe what's happening now as a seam? well that's because you created the scene yeah we've turned a page with you speaking of turning pages he's done it now you have it fantastic that was seamless there we go no notes that was good exactly that was good it was brilliant it was beautiful is what it was we should talk about the new book my favourite mistake alright how do you even begin writing a book like this yes oh god alright okay I am And I started with, I always do, I started with one character. It's usually a woman and I usually want to write about whatever is kind of affecting women in the contemporary world.

13:59So this is about a woman who did a post-COVID midlife pivot. She was working in New York, had a fabulous job doing PR in cosmetics and had a lovely boyfriend who was way too nice to her. And she was living in New York and she decided that she didn't like any of it anymore. but she's 48 and well she decides she's going to start life again and so she moves to a small town in the west of Ireland and it's okay it's about lots of things it's about what it's like to be in midlife and kind of all the things you've done as a younger person that you just wish that you could go back and change I mean I spend an awful lot of my time especially about four in the morning just time traveling and wishing I could literally go back and just undo a lot of the things I did and it's painful kind of learning to live with the things I can't change.

14:49But yeah, her name is Anna. And there's this man that she's had this kind of 20 year kind of on. Well, it was never fully on off, but they were always kind of in love with each other. But at different times, they both got married to other people. Now, neither of them are married and they are working in the same place. And then it's also about female friendship and the mythology, the kind of the feeling that like a female friendship can never, you can never not be friends with your best friend, that like you are obliged to be friends with them from the day you were born to the day you die. And that if anything goes wrong, you are a freak and a weirdo.

15:25And why are you so terrible? So it's kind of about all of those things. And it's, I mean, I wrote it because we were just coming out of lockdown and then feckin Russia invades Ukraine. And I just thought, oh Christ, the world is just going to continue to be off. for the foreseeable. So I wanted to write something hopeful and comforting and kind of, you know, about people being nice to each other and about community rather than people being awful. So that was kind of, I wanted to kind of create a happy safe because it takes me two years to write a book. So I needed a nice place for the two years for me to spend my time.

16:02So that's kind of it. It's really interesting, that thing, isn't it? That you can see what people really enjoy and what people crave from literature and you know all media when what's going on in the world is absolutely horrendous they they're drawn to something more comforting that they can just lose themselves in yeah well you see i i mean i read an awful lot and i was thinking well what am i reading what do i like what kind of gives gives me escape and comfort and and it was that like it was love stories of stories about family and it was you know there can be no novel without some kind of profound unpleasantness because there is no point otherwise.

16:38But I wanted to write something that just generally felt positive or hopeful or just kind of acknowledge that human beings, although we are fundamentally awful, that we are capable of kindness and and, you know, comforting each other. And I think definitely nobody wants to read about how the world really is. I mean, I'm in profound denial about how dreadful it all is, but still it just leaks at you, doesn't it? But yeah, you're right. I mean, I will seek something uplifting rather than the grimness. Because all I have to do is look at the headline of a newspaper and it's like, thank you, that's the entire month ruined for me.

17:16That was a terrible mistake looking at that. You see, and I do sudokus in the Times every day. And so, like, I have to do this thing where, like, I'm tapping, like, you know, like putting my finger on the machine. And I'm trying to get into the Times, but like avoiding any of the actual news. Trying to find the bit where it says puzzles. and then once I get to the positive I'm going okay girl I'm safe I'm safe I'm safe but at the same time words have jumped out at me like Trump you know Putin awfulness terribleness and I think that's enough to kind of rattle me for the entire day

17:47James Acaster: now we're talking about books but now you're talking it's the name of your podcast oh no no now you're asking fuck shit no it's fine fuck no no that's great because we can make a thing of it no I was really pleased with that segue I knew I was going to do it and I actually formulated it in my head. Now we're asking about books, but now you're talking. That's what I was going to do. You're asking. I've fucking fucked it. Do it again. Do it again. Do it again. Here's what you don't know as well, Maren. Before you came in, I messed up the intro loads. Like I was messing up my words in the intro. So clearly something's happened in my brain today.

18:22No, I love you. I'm like that, you know. And look at how you berate yourself. No, no, no. You have to be nicer to yourself. We're all doing our best and you are brilliant. your head moves so fast you are so clever and so witty and this is what happens sometimes that like when you're like that just the words are all coming too fast and it's like a bottleneck trying to get them through your brain and out through your mouth and they just get mixed up it's like people trying to leave a stadium with James the words yes that's exactly what it's like it is exactly what it's like although if you are me and you travel with the Irish team or you know when you go to see the Irish team like in foreign places They lock us in till the local teams have left.

19:04Yes. Which is so mean because Irish football fans are delicious. You know, there was one place, where was it? Slovakia, which is on my list of like no fly zones forever and ever again. They locked us in for hours afterwards and then they left us leave. They let us leave. And there was like men with machine guns watching us. We're like, excuse me, do you know who we are? We're Irish fans. They're treating you like you're English. I'm afraid so I think they got us mixed up so anyway how did we get on to this the bottleneck yes the foot bottom

19:36James Acaster: yes the bottleneck and then before that we got into that because of the Now You're Asking podcast yes yes Now You're Asking is a podcast that you're doing with Tara Flynn yes do you know Tara she's a comedian we've never met Tara no never met Tara of course I'm aware of Tara absolutely I've heard her name many many times but tell us a bit about Now You're Asking Okay, it's sort of, it's a problem show. So people write in with various kind of dilemmas. Like, so to be like, I have just met a new fella and I am less young than I used to be. And what's the story with pubic hair? Like, for example, would be one of the questions.

20:14That's a lot in one question, isn't it? It's a lot of backstory in the question. I know, I think it kind of gets straight to the heart of the issue. But then others would be like, how many minutes should a teabag be left in a cup before you have the perfect cup of tea? This kind of business. And what's the story with pubic hair? Do they all end with... And yeah, and also, yeah, P.S. Yeah, because that's what they really wanted to know, but they had to disguise it because they weren't as brave as the first person. Yeah, things like that. And so, and like, it's a mix of kind of fun stuff and really dark stuff.

20:54I mean, this poor woman wrote to us, I mean, she had been groomed by, I don't know what they're called in the Church of England, would be a vicar or a reverend or I don't know. Anyway, when she was a child and a teenager, she was groomed by their local, whatever he was, vicar man. And as soon as she was 16, like he waited until she was 16. And it's just, it's horrific. And she had never told anybody because her parents, her family were very into the church and to be trusted with her story. I mean, it was a huge privilege. So we're very, very careful and very aware of how vulnerable people are who write in.

21:33So it is a mix of the dark and the light. And Tara is very funny. She's also very, very kind. And we record it in my front room. So it's very intimate and chatty. And maybe you know the producer. He's Steve Doherty. And he put me and Tara together. And the whole thing. You know sometimes something beautiful just lands in your lap. That's that. So we've done four series now. And we're hoping that we'll be asked to do a fifth one.

22:03James Acaster: Well, what would you, if you had a question, Ed, that needed answer? Because we can do one now. If you had something that you need in your life. What is the story with pubic hair? Oh, Ed. Not even giving the context like the first person did. No, I'm cutting to the heart of the issue. Come on, two sentences before. I don't think I have anything to ask. Ed's actual thing with pubic hair is that he does trim his pubes, but he lets them grow out to a point where he just says he looks like a woolly mammoth before he cuts them again. Is there a way that Ed can motivate himself to keep on top of it more?

22:40James Acaster: That's a good question. yes that's a very good question don't ask me how I know that I treat it like a sheep yeah alright then so it's kind of seasonal yeah well I mean you can't be shaving the sheep the whole time you know I mean there's nothing there yeah you know I would and I dip it in iodine I do a job lot yeah yeah that's exactly what I do yeah but James is stressing this as an issue well you've expressed it as an issue in the past well I don't know whether you know it's difficult to know what's normal with that sort of thing is it because people aren't as open as as us three you could ask somebody not me not you yes that's a that's a great response to a question yes you should ask somebody not me we're moving on yeah yeah we have lots of questions for you marion of course but they're all food-based questions oh yeah it's rare we get to the pubes before the food so hopefully when we ask you would you like still a sparkling water you don't say you should ask someone that not me not me also we're now in the dream restaurant and the last question you want to hear in the dream restaurant is what's the story with this pubic hair yeah that is true yes I don't want any pubic hair with my stiller sparkling water if that's okay of course that's fine I mean I know it's an added extra but yeah thank you thank you just let's keep it simple someone came to my house the other day a much older person and they left a pube how?

24:03James Acaster: on the toilet seat and it was the biggest pube I've ever seen Lord God I thought that do your pubes get bigger when you get older I don't know ask somebody not me really long he's long but undeniably a pube yeah are you sure yeah 100 % much older person much older person how old like 70s yeah longest pubes I've ever seen

24:32still a sparkly water Marion I don't know it depends I mean okay I'll have sparkling because it's a it's a special time because I don't drink so I have to kind of take my my thrills where I get yes so yeah we'll go sparkling I know I heard Emily Campbell saying that you're a psychopath if you pick sparkling water but if I'm a psychopath then bring it on so be it so be it give me the sparkling water

24:56James Acaster: do you want to look at the rest of your I'm always doing quizzes to see if I am and yeah I do a lot of online quizzes I could easily be. I could. Yeah. But what do the quizzes say? Yeah, they're saying, yeah, you could be. Yeah. I say you could be. Yeah. I think it's because I don't like dogs. It's not that I don't like them, but I'm afraid of them. But if you say that, people are so judgy about the non-dog lover. Yes. Yeah, they're really quick to shunt you into the psychopath category, which I think is unfair. I think it shows insecurity on their part. Yeah. I think, you know, like, each to their own, whatever people love and like, great but as soon as you like something and you say anyone who doesn't like this thing there's something wrong with them you're like okay they're a psychopath they're psychopaths for saying I'm a psychopath yeah or they're worried that like dog lovers get because like dogs get viewed as more basic than cats and all of this and that's just you know I've got cats but I'm not thinking that that makes yeah that's better I don't think oh cats are this for sophisticated people and dogs are for idiots yeah and there's a coincidence there that I gestured towards Ed for cats who has a cat yeah and Ben, who has a dog for the dog.

26:07James Acaster: But like, I don't think that. But I think some dog owners, like Ben, think, oh, everyone must think I'm a right dummy because I love dogs so much because dogs are so easy to get the affection from, you know, but we don't think that. No, she said uncertainly. No, nobody is a psychopath for liking or not liking cats and dogs. Yeah, yeah. It's when, yeah. It depends why, I guess. Yeah. No, I'm just, I'm afraid of dogs. I'm afraid of most things. psychopaths aren't afraid psychopaths aren't afraid but they are what's the word superficially charming and I think I think I fall into that category you're charming you're very charming thank you but it's superficial yeah I'm awful that's big that's a big thing to find out at the top of the interview yeah straight away it's all been a lie so far it's all a sham do you like other animals I don't like any animals no wow are you scared of them all I'm either scared or I don't like them I'm I am sort of scared of cats I'm really sorry but I don't like them either it's okay yeah and they don't like me yeah we have a mutual antipathy have you had experiences where they've been shitty to you they give me looks yeah kind of they look at me and go I see you yeah oh yeah you and your superficial charm yeah you're full of me cats often though if someone doesn't like cats I've certainly found this with my cat oh yeah that they'll paw you then they'll be like they'll be like well I'm sitting on you then yeah they do And sometimes they sit on the back of the couch and then they jump onto my shoulder.

27:36And if you're afraid of things, that can be unpleasant. Yeah, something coming from behind you and sitting on your shoulder. Yeah, and then they turn around and they give me the look kind of, gotcha. No, they're awful. Sorry, sorry, sorry, cat lovers, sorry, dog lovers.

27:50James Acaster: Please don't apologize. Sorry, lizard lovers. You don't like lizards? Oh my God, no. No, I don't like anything like that. No. A single animal you would like? No, no. I like babies. with that too yeah yeah that would do they're basically pets if a baby crawled onto your shoulder you're fine with that oh I'd be thrilled no I would I'd love that I'd love that yeah really oh god I'd love it yeah oh I love babies oh yeah I'd love a baby who could talk yeah yeah I would yeah a child well no a baby yeah yeah because then you get to snuggle them yeah yeah anyway a child isn't a baby that can talk yet well there's probably a point where a baby starts to talk before it's, you know what I mean?

28:35Yeah, I do. Like there's a crossover point, isn't there? Yeah, it's an almost toddler. Would that be kind of where we're at? Yeah. You still might go, look at this baby. Yes. Infant, child, toddler. But also they're saying some little words. Yeah, I love when they start talking. Yeah.

28:49James Acaster: Pop it on us on bread! Pop it on us on bread, man! Oh, bread! You looked so shocked at me. That's the first time you've not been able to get through it. Because you looked at me like, what has happened? what have I done? Yeah, because I didn't hear I didn't know what you were saying Pop loves all bread, Marion Keyes Pop loves all bread Bread Bread Bread, James You looked genuinely I've never had someone look hurt by it before No, no, I wasn't You looked like I'd hurt your feelings No, no, I was confused But also you said you were scared of a lot of things I thought you were just I thought you were shouting abuse at me like people sometimes do in the street So what?

29:19James Acaster: I did hurt your feelings That's what No, no, I'm always interested I want to know what it is that they're saying No, no abuse So that we could have a conversation No, no, no Bread, thank you very much Who's shouting abuse at you in the street? just people we'll beat him up oh thank you we're pretty tough I stood up to Stephen Graham recently on the podcast when he came on the episode he came on who's Stephen Graham he's an actor he's like a real tough guy or so he likes to think and he came on here is he from Liverpool yes oh yeah I know he's great I stood up to him yeah stop yeah it was on the podcast everyone's heard it James got torn apart everyone's heard it I stood up to him on the podcast yeah good good good good good yeah thank you you know the phrase he tore him a new one yes you know that phrase He didn't.

30:00Well, it was my pleasure. Stephen tore James so many new ones. He was covered in bumholes. No. I wasn't covered in bumholes.

30:07James Acaster: What? It was the other way round. Yeah, it was the other way round. He was like a colander. You would like some bread? Bread. I'd like lots of bread. Thank you. Lovely. Any particular type of bread? If I only have to pick one, there's a hotel in Ireland called Hotel Europe. It's in Kerry. and they have a treacle and Guinness bread and I swear to God I mean I would just eat that for my entire dinner but I realise I have to say other things as well I really like bread I really like bread and I really like butter, bread and butter together like you see I have a funny relationship with food in that I don't enjoy being hungry and I like to move from the state of hungry to not hungry as quickly and efficiently as possible but I am the absolute opposite of a foodie.

30:59Like my idea of abject misery is, oh Christ, being like trapped in a restaurant, having signed up to a nine course tasting menu. It's like being taken hostage. Like it is like, you know, and I just want the people outside to pay whatever the ransom is so that I can be allowed to go free. Because when the bread comes, I eat so much of it that I've lost all interest in whatever comes afterwards. yeah alright so we'll stick with one one bread for this because I have I have to say other things as well afterwards isn't that correct yes so when we serve you the bread do you want us to try and sort of keep an eye on how much you're having limit it yeah only maybe bring one piece okay

31:41James Acaster: yeah and where's this place again it's in it's in Killarney in County Kerry it's called the Hotel Europe I go every Easter with my brothers and sisters and their babbies and my mother and they have an Easter bunny hunt on a Sunday. And it's just, it's lovely. It's my happy, happy time. How do you feel about the Easter bunny though? I mean, it's funny because the younger nieces and nephews cried their eyes out whenever it comes near. But it usually has a basket of cream eggs and kinder eggs. So I like it for that. I think I will make eye contact with it while also trying to steal some of the things from the basket.

32:20Anything where there's an opportunity for chocolate or sugar, I embrace yeah so the Easter Bunny is grand because although it is an animal there are nice things associated with its arrival

32:33James Acaster: so if the Easter Bunny just you turn around on your shoulder I wouldn't be delighted but then I would look down to see if the basket was there and if the basket was there then I would feel calm calm calm yes it scares the kiddies really does it's so weird they're terrified yeah like they cry like I've loads of photographs of them like with the Easter Bunny bunny with his arms around them and they're crying their eyes out. It's weird because what would they imagine the Easter bunny was like because smaller. Like an actual bunny size thing. Yeah, definitely. Not this huge yoke with like ears that are like eight feet high and it's all a bit mangy the costume because it's the same costume every year.

33:15You can't be buying new ones. Like Easter bunny costumes aren't cheap I'd imagine. And also there's something weird going on with the eyes. I don't think the eyes on the bunny is where the eyes are on the person I think the person is looking out to the mouth it's all a bit odd when you think about it yeah but then they get the chocolate as well so then they stop crying yeah

33:35James Acaster: but that's not it's not nice in the meantime no it's not I mean we sort of find it cute and funny but it's not nice for the children no that's why you're taking photos because it is funny that's it it's traumatising for them it is a bit I suppose yeah but good for them toughens them up yeah is this bread warm oh god yes please yes thank you and what sort of butter do you want with it just ordinary Irish Kerrygold butter thank you yes that's our test to check our guests are actually Irish if they don't say Kerrygold we know they're lying yes I am a fraud I don't know how many guests from Ireland have not chosen Kerrygold but it's not many yeah okay that's good do they really say it that's so sweet oh yeah Kerrygold comes up a lot with our Irish guests yes nice like you know I'm as English as they come but I'll lose respect for those people when an Irish guest comes on and doesn't choose Kerrygold I think you should be ashamed of yourself you should be ashamed of yourself hey it's Paige from Giggly Squad you know when you finally get started on a project around the house and then five minutes in you realise you're missing one thing somehow it's always that one thing that sends you back to the store that's why I love this from Lowe's if you're a My Lowe's Rewards or My Lowe's Pro Rewards member you get free same-day delivery.

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37:47James Acaster: Your dream starter. Okay, right. My husband makes it. I don't really know how to describe it. He's in the building, shout out. He is. I have actually come with it written down somewhere. I might have to refer to my notes. It is... You'll be able to hear this as well. Yes. He's in the next room, you can hear it. Okay. It is called a tomato and ricotta salad with coriander seed and lemon oil. But that sounds really kind of dull. These are lovely tomatoes. They're heritage tomatoes. Like they're funny round colours, purple, yellow. And they taste of things. You know the way like most tomatoes taste of cotton wool.

38:23These actually have a flavour. And it says ricotta cheese here, but it's not. He uses, oh God, manchego, manchego. which is a hard Spanish cheese and then he does sourdough croutons soaked in olive oil and they're honest to God and he does some funny sort of tomato-y reduction business and it's so delicious.

38:47James Acaster: What's the is there lettuce in it and stuff? No it's just the tomatoes and the croutons and then the other things thrown over there's basil and maybe spring onion sometimes but he's one of these people who does he does things with whatever's in the fridge you know. Great, you need someone like that in the house. Because it's not me it's really not That's brilliant, it's like a fancy elevated caprese salad It is, it is Yes. I love the coriander seed in there sounds incredible Yeah, because he toasts them He's one of these people that does all those things where it makes me really anxious if I have to do more than two things at once I just kind of short circuit and I can't do anything and I have to sit and cry while the people who are expected come over and there's nothing for them to eat.

39:35I'm just not that person. Also, I love a salad where every ingredient I'm like, I'd look forward to eating that bit. Yes. Because so many salads sometimes, if there's cheese in other salads, I'm like, let's be honest, I'm picking through and finding the cheese. Yeah, exactly. You're exactly right. It is one of those kind of, it's like a jewel box and everything is delicious and fresh and tastes of things. That sounds so good. and good tomatoes are very hard to find. They are. They are hard to find.

40:04James Acaster: As is a fella, how did you meet? You're gorgeous. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. You're on fire now, mate. I loved it. I loved it. Another seamless segue. There's a queue in the stadium now for people to get out. It's gone very ordered, hasn't it? It's really... People are so... One quarter at a time, lad. That's it. And everyone is just so happy to do it as you say. Yeah. Okay. My flatmate worked with him. This is 4 ,000 years ago. This is a very long time ago. I'm with him for 30 years and he is lovely. He's really, really nice to me, which is rarer than you might think. And we have great fun. And when I met him, he had a fabulous job and I had a crappy one.

40:43And then my books got published and he gave up his fabulous job. And he is my assistant, also my chef, my personal chef.

40:52James Acaster: Yeah, great. You can have those salads whenever you want. Whenever I want. Exactly. Yes. I ring down in the morning and I say my order for the day. Yeah. And then he goes to the shops. He doesn't. And buys the things. No, no, no. It's not like that. I used to think I had my dream job. But now I've realised my dream job is my wife becoming a worldwide smash novelist and me becoming her personal chef. Yeah. That's it. You'd like that? That's what I want to do now. Do you have any advice for Ed's wife how to become a renowned novelist? well if she could write some books that would probably be a start that would be a good start wouldn't it ask somebody not me no I mean yeah like anyone who wants to write there are no kind of you don't need anyone's permission I think I just want to cook more I think that's what oh really yeah I think that's what it is yeah I'll just cook for her more yeah doesn't matter if she's a novelist or not yeah it doesn't matter it doesn't yeah it's true she's got a hot up her end of the deal yeah a bit novelist does she have a job yes she does oh but this is fine this is fine yeah you cook yeah I just and she'll do her job yeah yeah that's fine you gotta quit your job oh yeah good point I've gotta quit my job would you mind you can do it now to Benito I guess yeah how did you notice now I think I would mind maybe quitting my job okay then don't don't quit yeah just cook more just cook a bit more yeah yeah yeah yes we don't have to go to the extremes every time no no we can just do things in a small way we can just find our own way we don't have to do exactly what you and your husband did we don't we don't exactly I thought I was going to get him to quit I thought I could do it yeah yeah I thought I could get him to hand his notice oh no come now no the pair of you are beautiful together the three of you not the three of us he's fucking up all week he's been fucking up all week Maria

42:53James Acaster: your dream main course okay I don't eat meat and or fish not for any reasons other than they give me the ache and it's very very difficult you really you're holding up this thing about animals here yeah which yeah across the board yeah anything that reminds me that they were once alive and swimming around or running around just distresses me terribly but it's really hard to be a vegetarian because the only thing they ever give you is mushrooms. And I also hate mushrooms. They taste like death. They taste like sort of mulch and like they've been buried in forests with rotting leaves above them.

43:31It's just miserable. Anyway, there's a place in Ireland called Woodruff. It's a place, it's a restaurant in Dublin and they do a thing with butternut squash where they roast the butternut squash in a sort of a dry stew with chickpeas. Now, I know this sounds maybe not thrilling, but it is delicious. And they use, hang on, Tlay Cino, Ras el Hanout, some sort of collection of Moroccan spices, I think. And it is on it. They roast the squash so that it is almost sweet and it's all gone sort of caramelised. And it's honest to God. And it is so soft and fabulous. It's a pleasure to eat instead of kind of the misery of vegetarian food, which is usually such a kind of an afterthought.

44:18And this place, this Woodruff place, they also do meaty things like, I mean, you see, my husband will eat anything. And kind of the more awful, the better. Like we were in Estonia and he ate bear. And we were in France and they had this thing on the menu that we eventually translated as cock's comb. You know the thing on the rooster's head? Oh yeah. A chicken hat? A chicken hat, exactly. I didn't know you could eat the chicken hat yeah well neither did we until we saw it there and so he ordered it and it caused like a sensation in the restaurant like all the French people came out to talk to him and you know first of all the maitre d had to come out and persuade him not to have it and then the manager of the hotel came out and tried to talk him down and then when it finally came and he was eating it like everyone like the kitchen porters like people came in from the streets to watch the roast beef eating the disgusting French chicken hat.

45:16But anyway, Woodruff, they don't exactly do that, but they do other things like, well, duck, I suppose, doesn't seem that kind of revolutionary, but it kind of is repulsive to me. Or what's that other thing? Venison, you know, they do that as well. They do nice things for meat eaters, is what I'm trying to say, but they don't leave the likes of me behind. So what would we call it? Squash with chickpea soup. it's stew yeah

45:44James Acaster: with rass and hanout with rass and hanout roasted because the whole thing is roasted I haven't mostly a butternut squash in a while I used to be doing that pretty regularly and having a good old time they're a bugger to chop up though and to peel initially yeah they are that first cut into a butternut squash is it's really difficult yeah which is why you should go to Woodruff I am not in the pay of these people at all they're just they're nice it's a nice small restaurant where they do like lovely lovely food and they're nice to you and they play lovely music. What kind of music are we talking?

46:17Well, the jam and that sort of thing.

46:23James Acaster: They play the jam. Yeah, the jam and kind of 80s, good 80s music, you know? Is that important to you in a restaurant setting, the music? Well, yeah. I mean, it's awful to have sort of muzak on, but it is really nice. The Cure is another one they play. You know, you're sitting there, oh my god I remember this and yeah it kind of adds to the whole it uplifts me you know I remember what it was like being 20 and yeah I do do you ever listen to music when you're writing I'm sure you've been asked this a lot yeah I don't does it ever inspire you sometimes depends on what I'm writing not really to be honest with you it's not it's just that I don't really notice it I just kind of go into my own head like I don't need silence or anything like that but it's not really part of the experience either.

47:14James Acaster: So when it comes to something like The Walsh Sisters which is going to have music in there somewhere for TV shows do you think like oh okay that book that I wrote what music do I think would fit with that world and can I like you know throw some ideas in? There was a little bit in both My Favourite Mistake and the previous book again Rachel because both of them featured these men who used to be they called them the real men who used to listen to a lot of Led Zeppelin and stuff because they were just, you know, that type. Stuck in the past. And so I did. I listened to some and to some, who do you call them?

47:49The Doobie Brothers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it did kind of conjure up like what they looked like. But I would really like to talk about the music for the TV show if you would be interested. Yes. Do you know C-Math?

48:01James Acaster: Yes. We had her on the podcast. She's sat in this podcast. Sat in that C. Oh my God. And did she choose Kerrygold? Of course she did. She may well have done. I'm sure. That woman is a goddess. Yes. Okay. She wrote a song and one of the lines in it was the Marion Keys of it all. And I am a not young and she is a young. And I was so thrilled that she knew about me. And then I listened to her. And like, I just, I love her so much. I love her attitude and I love her energy and her. And she's positive and she's fearless. And I mean, she's an absolute star. But anyway, so they were talking, the producers of the TV show, about, you know, using music for the episodes and hopefully Irish musicians.

48:46So she and I had become pals. And so I asked her if she would allow one of her songs, maybe the Marion Keys song, to be used. And she said she would be thrilled. And now there is talk that she might write an actual special new song for her. I know. I know. That's not really what you asked me, but it was something that I really enjoyed. yeah like talk about yeah it's so exciting because she is just she's just remarkable she's a complete one off and I love her and and kind of anyone who has encountered her in any way seems to love her she's just beautiful energy

49:23James Acaster: did you see Seema on the George Holland hootenanny I didn't because I didn't yeah because it's on too late and but like yeah I didn't but I'm so glad because that seemed to have converted an awful lot of people who didn't know about her. Well, I mean, we were watching it and we knew, obviously, we interviewed her and knew her music anyway. But this is going to sound like I'm slagging off everyone else on the Hootenanny and I basically am. She was so much better than everyone else in a way that was quite embarrassing for everyone else. She is. That's what I'll say. And if Bob Geldof wants to come at me, he will.

49:58Never mind him.

50:06James Acaster: Your dream side dish. Oh, OK. Right. How do we... Hassle... Hassleback potatoes. Yes. I nearly jumped in and said hoff and then I thought... That's what I nearly said. No, I nearly said Hasslehoff. Yeah. Thank God I didn't. Yeah. Hassleback potatoes. Now, do you know what they are? I think you do. Great. Please, for the lesson of that. Yeah. OK. Right. They are a potato and they have loads and loads and loads of tiny thin slices cut into them. But the bottom of the potato is still intact. So it's kind of like a little fan, a little accordion. And into the little pleats, you put like tons of butter.

50:45Kerrygold, of course. And you can do, I mean, you can do other things. You can do beetroot like that as well. But like, I mean, why would you when you could do a potato? I would love that so much.

50:56James Acaster: Heavily seasoned? With salt. Yeah. Tons of salt. Thank you. Yeah. There's no need for the pepper. Thanks. Okay. Not a fan of the pepper? I don't mind it, but I think potatoes leave them alone salt and butter is all you need you know why ruin something that's already magnificent perfect yeah what sort of size potato are you oh very big one very big massive one massive massive but a foot long if at all possible and very very very slender slices yeah if the Hasselback potato comes along I want to see the seasoning on it I want there to be the more slices the better yes and I want there to be crispy little bits of seasoning all over those crystals of salt not the kind of the minuscule mingy table salt you want some of that Himalayan pink salt yeah you know great big handfuls of it yeah that's it with the colour so you're having Kerrygold butter in every little slit every single one thank you so you can get a pack of butter in there easily oh easy that would be the dream yeah well this is the dream is there a place where you've had the best Hasselback potatoes I know this is going to sound and I'm really sorry Ed my husband is fantastic at this sort of thing going to have to do make one tonight this guy keep up with this guy this guy's leaving me in the goddamn dust no it's just it's inspiration yeah come on tell us about some of the things you've made please come on yeah come on I don't know chicken I don't know chicken say it again chicken chicken what way roast roast chicken you cannot beat a lovely roast chicken so I'm told lamb lamb lamb can be lovely so I'm told slow cooked lamb yeah slow cooked lamb what about some of your veggie stuff yeah but like now you're asking yeah oh yeah we talked we talked with Mira Soda about it loads from Mira Soda's book Denise the tomato curry tomato curry yeah tomato curry yeah tell me yeah it's tomato curry how do you do it come on now don't be shy it's quite a complicated recipe because you have to have two pans going at the same time and then mix them oh there you go but yeah it's delicious it's delicious not everyone do that yeah dandan noodles yeah yeah yeah with a lot of tahini and black vinegar and soy.

53:03You're really good at this, aren't you? I love tahini. Oh God, tahini is the most wonderful thing. But to have two pans going at the same time, I mean, that's elite stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. Could your husband do that? I don't think he can, you know. I don't think he can. He's a one-pan husband. He's a one-pan man. Yeah. See, and you're a two-pan man. Yes. You see?

53:21James Acaster: Yeah. You're fabulous. Thank you. Thank you, Mary. If I was, I would trust a one-pan man more than a two-pan man. What are you talking about? I think one's not enough for this guy. no I love the show of dexterity with the two pan man I think he a two pan man might get bored in a monogamous relationship I'm a two pan man one man band do you want David Hasselhoff there? oh god I'd really rather not do you mind? I was in a room with him once yeah he was singing a song it was very odd is that the one about his car do you remember that one? did he do that on the Berlin Wall? did he do that on the Berlin Wall?

53:56well he played on he played in Berlin the day the wall came down right? because he's massive in Germany I forgot about that Massive in Germany, yeah. I shouldn't be mean about the chap. No, no, no, no. It's fine. I wish him well. I wish him well.

54:07James Acaster: Yeah. But no, I'm grand. He doesn't have to be there. No, just the potatoes themselves are fine. So you're singing one of his own songs in a room with you? Yeah. Where was this room? Oh, it was a TV. Was it a gig? Did you go to a David Hasselhoff gig? No, I did not. I thought we were friends. No, I was in a TV studio and we were on a show in Ireland. and then the show stopped running you know the camera stopped it was the end you know and the next thing he grabs a microphone and has some words with the band and he's up singing and again it was a hostage situation it felt like you know that we were all trapped and we all had to kind of look delighted and I just wanted to go home because I was tired but I had to look delighted and wait for the song to end there was nothing against him in particular it's just that I didn't grab the mic and have a word with the band and start singing.

55:00Yes. You know, you have to, you have to make it okay with people if you're going to do that, I think. And sense the vibe in the room. Read the room. The room was tired and wanted to go home.

55:11James Acaster: Did he think the audience was tired? Oh no, he thought the audience were delighted. Maybe the audience were delighted. I think with that stuff, like I think that I would never do that because I would think of it as like, you've already done your interview, James. You don't need them to pay even more attention to you. Just get over it. also it's self-awareness isn't it yeah he should be thinking i'm david hasselhoff i'm not bruce springsteen maybe yeah yeah he should do people want to hear this yeah yeah but then i think if i'm in the audience and i'm not in this world all the time and i've gone to see the tv show and i didn't know there'd be so much stopping and starting with the tv show and wait wait a second everyone and the warm-up comes out again and you're there for hours and then david hasselhoff got up and sang with a band, I might be pretty delighted with it.

55:57James Acaster: You might be delighted. Yeah, they probably were. And I'm just a curmudgeon. No, I'd feel the same as you. I'd be like, oh, fuck this guy. I'd be worse than you. But like... I think it's a really good point, though, that the audience probably were delighted. But then I'd think, if he thinks the audience would be delighted about this, even more egotistical. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but some people do. I mean, yeah, it takes all sorts. see and the thing is Bruce probably wouldn't no because Bruce is sound Bruce knows who Bruce is I love Bruce he says Bruce says the best place is the best place his favourite place to gig in the world is Ireland Bruce says yeah stop it favourite place in the world to do shows did you know that I didn't but I'm very very pleased the boss

56:47what would you do if you met David Hasselhoff and he turned around and he had loads of slits down his back and there was stuff with butter and covered in big salt crystals yeah no i'd leave them to it say you do you david good on you

56:58James Acaster: yeah imagine that as i've seen in baywatch where it's like running down the beach and then they show it from the back yeah and they go what the fuck yeah then he runs into the sea and it's the most painful thing in the world yeah yeah because he's all hassle back to his hassle off yeah yes it could happen it could happen

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59:10James Acaster: Your dream drink. Right. As I said, I don't drink. And this makes me sound so joyless, but I'm really happy with water. You see, when you don't drink and you say to the man, sorry, I'm fine, I don't drink. And then there's a kind of a weird moment and they're like, what's wrong with her? And no, like always, you know, and then I have to say, it's all right, I'm a recovering alcoholic. You know, she said it. And then you see, because the poor feckers, like they're trying to upsell, like I am no good to them with my tap water. I mean, it doesn't have to be tap water, but whatever. And so we can do some lovely mocktails for you.

59:52And I don't want a mocktail because I just, I'm happy with my water. But I usually let them do it because I don't want them to be down a tenner, you know, or whatever. So they usually make me something with ginger or what's that other thing? Rosemary. I'll say words. I'll say words or they might say words to me. And I don't really listen because this is a done deal. Whatever is going to happen, you know, they're going to make me a mocktail and I'm going to drink it or some of it anyway. So they would bring me a mocktail with things hanging out of it, like a sprig of rosemary or maybe like, you know, some sort of branch, you know, part of an ash tree and fruit, maybe some melon, maybe or things, you know.

1:00:32A whole melon. A whole melon. And a straw because I ask for a straw. Because you might as well, like if you're doing it, do it properly. And so they would bring me it and I will drink it. But I have no interest in it, you know. But I will do it because I don't want them to be short of money. I don't want to be that, you know, because everybody comes in and they think they're going to make X amount of money out of each person. And then suddenly you have like the non-drinker. And like suddenly all the calculations are thrown into disarray. so I know my role in the whole the restaurant ecosystem so yeah so I will have a mocktail but I don't really care what it is because I'm only drinking it to be polite well you don't need to do that at the dream restaurant okay well then I won't have any if that's okay with you I'm happy with my water I'll put the melon away

1:01:20James Acaster: I'll put the ashtray away thank you but the ashtray might be nice in the water oh yeah yeah okay yeah no I'm really really happy with the water I mean I know it sounds odd but I like water I think it's odd because you can get alcoholic drinks that aren't too sweet. Non-alcoholic drinks are all pretty sweet. You don't really have ones that aren't crazy sweet. And you don't want to be just constantly drinking sweet drinks all the time. Yeah, like I don't. It does do your head in. Whenever I have a break from alcohol, I'm like, these soft drinks are really... This is getting ridiculous how sweet all this stuff is.

1:01:55James Acaster: Yeah. It's so sugary. And what about the non-alcoholic beers and wines and that? Do you drink them? I haven't found a good one, really. And in the past, I've said it on the podcast before, when people have sent me alcohol-free stuff, I've chucked alcohol in there. I've added whiskey to an alcohol-free beer. And that's one of the things I did during lockdown. One of the nicest drinks. I loved it. But I knew that I wasn't really playing the game as it's intended to be played. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I haven't found a good alcohol-free beer. Have you? You see, I don't. I can't. like even anything that replicates the drinking experience isn't good for me so I don't but I'm happy with my water yeah well look this is going to be your drink in the dream restaurant thank you so you're sticking with sparkling well I change just to mix it up a bit yeah after my main course yeah I'll go on to my dessert water yes we'll have it still yeah do you want tap water at some point as well not really to be honest I mean I do have kind of aspirations I would like it to be like proper mineral water would that be alright of course of course it would be thank you we did one tap to not get a shout out a wedge of citrus oh god some lime some lime some lime would be lovely some lemon absolutely not really there's a huge difference I don't understand when people say they're the same they're not who's saying they're the same loads of people yeah well they're ridiculous you know you ask for lime and they give you lemon it's like no yeah lemon is cruel and harsh and lime is friendly and sweeter and just better.

1:03:28James Acaster: People think they're the same. Sorry, I went all high-pitched there. Yeah. What a wonderful moment to be here when your voice broke. Yeah. Finally, it's happened. My voice broke. Maybe that pube was yours. I wish. That's next. Next, I'll start growing. That's why it looks so big to me. I ain't got none. I never got any. Nothing to compare it to. Nothing to compare it to. I was like, what a huge pube. And everyone else was like, it's pretty normal to us. It's a normal size. It's pretty normal size. oh yeah I meant normal I'm trying to pretend well I've said this on the podcast before a number of times but I always like telling guests one of my earliest bits of comedy material was I used to go on stage and say hey do you remember when you you didn't have pubes yet but you told everyone at school that you did and got nothing gently silenced nothing every time I thought it was a worldwide I would have thought that was a great icebreaker I thought it was an observation I thought it was universal I thought we all lied about having pubes.

1:04:26But it's still a good bit because it tells the audience something about you rather than being a universal observation.

1:04:31James Acaster: It wasn't something they wanted to know I don't think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know. They were just too ashamed to admit it. Do you put things into your book sometimes where you think everyone does this this is universal and then you discover when the book comes out maybe in interviews oh that was just me. What's that all about? Yeah, that's mortifying. Are you able to just be like well that was the character. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's exactly what I say. Yeah. I mean they develop a life of their own, I say. I mean, I'm really not responsible for most of their actions or words.

1:05:05James Acaster: We arrive at your dream dessert. Now, I feel quite good about this because you said earlier that anything chocolatey, you're all over it. So I know that we're going to have a sweet dessert. We're not going to have anything sat there just like a cheese board. Okay, no, God, no, no, not a cheese board at all. Okay, it's an unusual one. it's the trifle that my mother makes the only thing is she only makes it once a year now and she makes it at Christmas and she puts sherry into it just to be cruel so that I can't have it so I would like to have the trifle without the sherry I mean they have about 40 desserts at Christmas all of them and they're all langers by 10 o 'clock in the morning and like and I come and like I am in good form I am completely sober and And they won't even let me have one thing, the trifle, for me.

1:05:57So that's what I'd like. I would like to have my mother's trifle specially made for me. What would be a good, there must be a good replacement for the sherry in there. Like a non-alcoholic replacement. Surely. Yeah, like fruit juice or something like that. I mean, they're all so drunk it doesn't matter. They can't taste it anyway. But she just does it to be defiant. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And also it's like in her mind, she makes this thing every year. It's her special thing. Why don't she change it? Yeah. And she only makes one thing a year now, you know. But yeah, that's what I'd like. I'd love it because I miss it because it's like really delicious and really comforting.

1:06:36Like, you know, there's got a love custard, you know, and I love cream and jelly and like all the things, the cake, everything. I would really, really like it. And then maybe some chocolate sauce.

1:06:48James Acaster: Oh yeah, just drizzled on top of it. Yes, yes. What's your favourite element of the trifle? The custard. Oh yeah, sorry. No, go on. I'll ask the next question afterwards because I want to hear about the custard first. I mean, I love, love, love. It's the ultimate comfort food. Set custard, runny custard, hot custard, cold custard, any custard. Yeah, it's just really, really nice. And if you could be any element of the trifle, Which element would you be? Maybe it's the one that you relate to the most. Maybe it's the one you aspirationally would like to be. Okay, I'd like to be the cream, I think.

1:07:27Especially, you know, that squirty cream that comes out of a can. You see, like, the way it would go on the top of the trifle and it would look kind of very decorative immediately. You're not just, like, putting it on with a spoon and then trying to smooth the surface and all. You're already getting peaks and valleys and it looks like a snow place. I'd like that. You'd like to be the cream. I would like to be the cream because it is superficially attractive.

1:07:49James Acaster: so let's see if this it's the psychopath of the trial it's the psychopath aspect yes exactly we've had guests choose Trifle before have you? Harry Hill Jamie Oliver Jamani Maddox and some other ones can you just remember this off the top of your head yeah this is insane I can't remember this remember those three yeah Armando Iannucci stop it Steve Coogan Aspacar Amy Gledhill oh my god so normally I'm in good company yeah you are that's a very very good company yeah I'd ask people if they were layered up like a trifle with the other people who had chosen the trifle what order would they be layered up it's quite a weird pervert question yeah who would you want to be in between if I layered all those people up like a trifle including yourself but Marion's the cream so she's on top no no I'm willing to change okay I'm fierce fond of Steve Coogan and I can't pronounce his name Iannucci yeah I love his work I just think he's I think they're both It's so clever.

1:08:49I'd be delighted to be a sandwich with them.

1:08:53James Acaster: They do a lot of projects together. So they might be talking across you about a project they've got. They've just done Doctor Strangely on the West End. They do partridge together. Right, I see. Are you going to be able to put up with that if they're either side of you throwing back and forth ideas? I'd love it. I would find it so interesting. I'd be honoured. I'm like, I don't have to say anything. I can just be there. I can be like, I don't know, A thin layer of jelly. You know, I don't mind. I know my place in the ecosystem. Like, I'd be delighted. I think they'd be delighted as well. Yeah, yeah.

1:09:27So you want this trifle, but without the sherry. Yes, thanks. We know your husband's in the building. Yes. Shout out. He will now surely, as your personal chef, be plotting making a trifle recipe without the sherry. And if he did that, would you enjoy it as much as your mother's trifle? Probably not, to be honest. And this is no shade on him. It's just because it kind of it's a substitute for love. And yeah, it would feel like love if my mother made it. My mother is a school of tough love kind of love person. Yeah. And she mostly shows her love to me by suggesting I go to the doctor. And it's funny because, yeah, like, you know, with all the books and everything, it's kind of not anything that she's interested in.

1:10:14but anytime I have a cough or anything like that she's like oh Marion you have a cough do you want to go to the doctor with that and I think oh god that's lovely go on say you know so that she'll be nice to me so yeah but having the trifle would feel like another version of that so yeah yeah it's not really about the trifle it's not about the trifle at all you know

1:10:36James Acaster: you get enough love your husband yeah he loves me anyway I know he loves me yeah no exactly whereas my mother I would love that yeah Well there you go that was Ed there trying to set your husband up for failure because he's feeling so against I think it was just I thought it was a good question Ed feels like he's in competition with your husband he wants to try and take him down It was about family dynamics and the psychology of the relationship what does the trifle actually represent and we got to the bottom of it love and a husband a husband can't offer a mother's love That man is a genius you need a podcast doing that sort of thing on you know something a bit more serious he's quit he's quit yeah a different podcast to this one which is magnificent but another one where you would also be magnificent talking about family dynamics and love what people really want what people mean when they say what they're asking for when they ask for something what they're really asking for and it's going to be called Mummy's Trifle oh yeah that's beautiful yeah you should do it together no no ask somebody not me no no you work that out all by yourself you create that role for yourself all by yourself I would love Ed to do a really serious podcast about family do you produce it Benito it's shaking his head yeah I read your menu back to you now see how you feel about it thank you you would like sparkling water you would like treat and Guinness bread warm from the Hotel Europe in Killarney sorry I burped into the microphone Jesus with Kerry Bolled Butter.

1:12:10James Acaster: I'm going to read that again. You can't be on Mummy's Trifle. Why would I not be on Mummy's Trifle? You can't burp during Mummy's Trifle. But you've got to be a serious and empathetic guest. Yeah, but you could assess what it means. What does that burp mean? What does the burp mean? What are you trying to say? What in your body needs to come out? Yeah, what was it that I was struggling with? Well, then all the words are in the queue. Because I had to say the word Europe and it reminded me of Brexit. And I got all upset. Oh, you see, you see. I got emotional. Look where we are. Yeah. This got very deep, very fast.

1:12:37Yeah. thanks to Dr. Ed he didn't do anything you think I didn't do anything aha you're the facilitator yeah it's the facilitator's job to just be kind of invisible yes

1:12:51James Acaster: starter you would like your husband's tomato and ricotta salad or it's not ricotta it's manchego with coriander seeds and lemon oil main course you would like roast butternut squash with chickpea stew and Razzel Hanoush Hanoush from Woodruff in Dublin side dish your husband's Hasselback potatoes with Kerrygold again, making a second appearance. Drink, happy with still water at this time, with lime, with the wedge of lime. Dessert, your mother's trifle without the sherry with some chocolate sauce drizzled over it. Perfect. Thank you so much. That's a lovely, lovely menu. That does sound nice. That sounds very tasty.

1:13:28James Acaster: I'd eat that. Yeah. Can we request that you work into one of your books like a character having that meal? and then just as a little Easter egg for fans yes I can try of this episode okay I can try I can try so it could just be just yeah and then they ate this you know you know what's happening now is the exact discussion we talked about that you have with your editors yes that's happening now yes could you work that into your book and you've gone yeah yeah I'll try yeah yeah never gonna happen yeah and I've gone home feeling great probably not going to happen yeah in all honesty yes but thank you for asking yeah it was a pleasure now now you're you're asking now you are asking now I'm asking now he was asking yes I'm going to do my own podcast if I was going off and doing his own one I'm going to do my own called now I'm asking yeah where I ask the questions that I want you to answer on your podcast okay so it's just me asking questions for an hour okay and I'll put that out every week yeah I'll listen to yours and see if and see if yeah if we can okay yeah yeah and you'll answer a third of them yes and James knows that which is why he asks three times as many yes exactly yeah so we all understand what's really going on can't wait top of the podcast charts top of the charts number two under mummy's trifle Marianne thank you so much for coming to the dream restaurant it was so much fun thank you so much thank you for having me it was great

1:14:57James Acaster: well there we are James what a wonderful episode wonderful menu wonderful stories yeah I loved it I mean also I'd like to talk about Now You're Asking the podcast that Marion does with Tara Flynn and very much looking forward to the Walsh sisters coming out the BBC drama keep an eye out because they're filming it now we don't have a date they're filming it now as we're talking they're filming it in Dublin and of course go and get your copy of My Favourite Mistake yes absolutely we can talk about all that stuff because Marion didn't say Tamento Didn't say it to Minto, so we didn't have to kick her out at the restaurant, of course.

1:15:34James Acaster: And we had a lovely chat with her husband afterwards who we'd heard so much about in the episode. And Ed was holding on to him and going, teach me. Teach me your ways. I want to be like you. I want to cook more. Yeah, I want to cook more. How do you do it? Yes. Are you going to make that salad, Ed? Yeah, I think so. I need to go and find some really good tomatoes. Achievable? Yeah. I need to go and... I mean, I'm so bad at knowing when the seasons are for things. Yeah, sure. When are the tomatoes good? One of the heritage tomatoes. Yeah, baby. They are the best, but they look so great. I know exactly how Maren described it.

1:16:06James Acaster: I was like, oh yeah. Oh yeah. I want one of those right now. Oh baby. Oh baby. I want a tomato that's so good you can eat it like an apple. Yeah, that would be good. Eat it like a little apple, walk around. Would you walk around in public eating that like an apple? Maybe not. It'd be quite messy, I think. It's difficult to eat it. An apple and the rest of the hand fruits are, you can walk around, they're portable. Yeah. And then you throw away the core. Not everyone does. Not everyone. People eat the core. We've talked about it before. People eat the core and like, but I also, it's been a while since I've heard them all referred to as hand fruits and it was very nice to hear that.

1:16:40I think it's a bit in Family Guy, you know, and it's just really stuck with me. Something about a strawberry being so big. You love Family Guy. Is it like a hand fruit? First two seasons blew me away. Stand by it. I think I was the right age for it then as well. Yeah, no, it's funny. It's talking baby. Yeah. Yeah, come on. People forget that when that came out, that was wild. Yeah, we talked about a talking baby earlier in this episode. The Simpsons didn't dare make that baby talk. No, no.

1:17:08James Acaster: Family guy, they're crossing the line. They were stuck trying to think of what do we do with this non-talking baby we've got. Family guy, whole character. Give it a voice. Yeah. Thank you to Marion and we will be back next week. We will be back next week.

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