#273: Attachment & Conflict (Part 2): Avoidant Attachment

0:28This episode is brought to you by Palmolive. Want to be the one who's always in the know about the game, the scores, the plays? Here's a tip. The Apple Sports app. Just pick your favorite teams and get automatic live updates without even knowing their schedules. And when your team scores, it shows up right on your iPhone lock screen, making it easy to check in anytime. So rule the group chat and download Apple Sports for free on the App Store or find it on your new iPhone. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. In today's episode, we are talking once again about attachment and conflict, and we're focusing today on avoidant attachment and how those with avoidant attachment patterns are likely to experience conflict and how that shows up in a relational context.

1:13So this episode is going to cover both dismissive avoidant patterns around conflict and fearful avoidant patterns around conflict. I decided to lump them in together, even though they can be quite distinct when it comes to conflict in particular. Just because I recently did a four part series on fearful avoidant attachment and we talked a bit about conflict in the context of how that tends to play out relationally there. So in the interest of brevity and not repeating myself too much, I'm going to put them in together today and I'll just call out where they tend to be different. But we're going to be talking about it.

1:48If you missed part one of this series, which was focusing on anxious attachment and how that tends to play out in the context of conflict and communication, you can go back and listen to that if you want to. I think it was episode 267. And as I mentioned last time, I'm then planning to do another episode where I'll talk about tips for each partner in what you can do both in the moment and maybe some self-work so that you can shake some of these cycles, that you can move away from the patterns that have always gotten the better of you during conflict. conflict is for a lot of us, the way we do conflict is sticky and, you know, we can see ourselves doing it, but in the moment, it's so enticing to just say the thing or lash out or shut down or do whatever we've always done to defend or protect ourselves.

2:40Even though we know that it doesn't really get us what we're wanting, it doesn't get us any closer to resolution or repair or, you know, finding our way back to connection, which I do think is ultimately what we all want. And then I'm also planning to do a part four, which will be all about what healthy repair looks like, because that is essential as well. It's not just about, you know, how do we avoid conflict? It's recognizing the inevitability of conflict and then, you know, having the tools and the skills and the commitment to finding your way back to each other when things do go sideways.

3:13So that's what we're going to be talking about today, the avoidant experience of conflict, what that feels like on the inside and how it plays out relationally. Before we get into today's episode, I wanted to share a really exciting announcement, which is that my Secure Self Challenge is back. This is the sixth time that I'm running the Secure Self Challenge, but it's actually totally different. If you came along to my free workshop last week, you will have already heard all about this, or if you're on my email list. But I've decided to build the Secure Self challenge out into an eight-week program rather than its original 28-day format.

3:51Just having finished writing a book, which is also called The Secure Self and which is really built around the themes that we cover in this challenge, I felt called to flesh it out a little to make it into a more comprehensive program akin to my others' healing anxious attachment, higher love, secure together. This really feels like it's the heart of my work and where my work is moving to. And so it felt right to really give it the space that it deserves. And so I'm building it out into an eight-week program. So we'll still cover the same four themes of self-compassion, self-regulation, self-advocacy, and self-trust, which I refer to as the pillars of a secure self.

4:36And the idea behind that is really that we're laying the foundations to create security and safety from within such that we can then go to relationships and experience them really differently. Because when we try and fix the relationship problem head on, we're often doing so from a place of fear and insecurity and that can actually lead us further into our patterns. You probably don't need me to tell you that because you probably know it anecdotally and experientially. That's certainly what I did for a really long time before I, you know, turned the spotlight back on myself and decided to just focus on my own work and really reaped the benefit of that.

5:16And I've seen that same transformation in literally thousands of other people who I've supported over the years. So there is an early bird price available for the next week for the Secure Self Challenge. We are kicking off on Monday, the 27th of July. So there's still a bit of time. As I said, it's an eight-week program. There'll be not only pre-recorded video modules and notes and teachings and all of that stuff. If you've done any of my other programs, that format will be familiar to you. But there's also four live group coaching calls with me. And there's a community space for the eight weeks of the challenge.

5:52So you can ask me questions, you can connect with others, share wins, you know, all of that added benefit of feeling like you're walking the path with other people who really understand it. And historically, that's always been a really beautiful part of the challenge is the community space. And you get lifetime access to all of the materials. And as a bonus, you also actually get the original 28 day secure self challenge. You'll receive that as a graduation gift at the end of the eight weeks. So you can have those 28 short daily lessons as a bit of a parting gift if you ever want to revisit the content in bite-sized format.

6:28So it's a really great deal. If you're at all interested, I would really, really love to have you. We've already got, I think about 50 people signed up. So there's a great group forming. And so if you're someone who knows that you really want to work on your self-worth, that feels like a bit of a missing piece in the puzzle for you. I would love to invite you in and to support you as you do that work. And of course, the link to all of that is in the show notes. Okay. So let's talk about avoidant attachment and conflict. So as a bit of a refresher, Last time when we talked about anxious attachment and conflict, we were talking about how the anxiously attached nervous system in response to a perception of threat or fear or pressure tends to go into overdrive.

7:14It ratchets up and it really propels you to just do something, right? There's this flood of energy and activity and mobilization and all of that just says, oh, we need to do something about this problem. I can see that something bad's going to happen or it's already happening and it's my job to sort of scurry around and fix it. And that fixing can take all sorts of forms. We talked about this in my free workshop last week around protest behaviours. We can try to smooth everything over or we can kind of blow everything up in the hope that we'll get someone's attention and get their engagement and ultimately solve the problem.

7:49Now, all of that is really diametrically opposed to how the nervous system, the attachment system of someone with avoidant patterns responds to a perception of fear, threat, stress in a relationship. Their attachment system essentially goes offline. It really dials down. It pulls back. it's the default response is to turn away from the thing that feels stressful or overwhelming rather than to kind of rush in towards it which is the more anxious response and so we need to understand that at a nervous system level you know as part of the deep imprint when we're looking at avoidant attachment and responses to conflict is that you know there's really strong wiring there that says like this is not going to end well this feels overwhelming and when something feels overwhelming, I return to my safe space, which is disconnection.

8:43I return to my island because there I feel in control and I feel competent and I feel like I can manage this. And I think it's important to acknowledge as well, I feel like I often give this advice to students in my programs. It's like, we need to remember that going into these conversations, if you're the more anxious partner, there's a good chance that you've been like rehearsing the conversation. You've had, you know, all of the different versions of it, you know exactly what you want to say, you know what you're going to say in response to what they might say. Like you're so ready, you're chomping at the bit to have these conversations.

9:17Whereas someone who's more avoidant is not likely to be at all rehearsed. And because their system tends to kind of shut down in those moments of tension or conflict or pressure or accusation or all of those things, they can almost lose access to their ability to speak very clearly or cogently, to know what to say. They can look a bit like a deer in the headlights. They can be a bit frozen. And you contrast that with a more anxious partner whose system is just like going at a million miles an hour and they're saying all of the words. And, you know, we kind of get entrenched in our extremes and it just keeps going further and further in those two directions because of the way that that tends to unfold.

10:02And I think oftentimes also someone with more anxious patterns is likely to be more, I don't want to say emotionally literate, but probably have more comfort and capacity in talking about stuff, even if it's in more of an analytical way, because I think it can be a bit of a blind spot for us anxious attachers. We think we're talking about feelings, but we're actually just talking about our analysis of feelings and situations. But even still, I think a lot of avoidant people would come to those conversations and feel like they are just vastly outmatched in terms of their ability to articulate themselves, in terms of how ready they are for those conversations, particularly if they've come out of nowhere or they feel a bit ambushed.

10:45And so I think the overwhelming experience for a lot of avoidant people is like, I don't want to go anywhere near that because I know how it ends. It doesn't end well. I can never say the right thing. Anything I try to say apparently makes it worse. or if I say nothing at all, that definitely makes it worse. And so it's like, okay, the best thing to do here is to avoid that scenario, whether that's by pulling away as soon as the conflict starts or dismissing it. Like there's lots of different ways to do it, but that's the overwhelming imperative is like, just don't go there if it can be avoided.

11:17And I should say like that, which I've just described, I think is more typical of someone with more dismissive avoidant patterns. As we talked about in the fearful avoidant series recently, I think folks with fearful avoidant patterns tend to have a much stronger fight response. They won't always reach for that, but oftentimes they will. So if, for example, an anxious partner, you know, through some poison barbs or snide remarks or something at a fearful avoidant partner, you're much likely to get like a big fight response back. Whereas for a dismissive avoidant partner, you're likely to get something that's, you know, dismissive, invalidating, like, you know, maybe an eye roll and walking away or something, just a refusal to engage.

12:01So I wanted to talk about a few key strategies that I think can come up for avoidant folks when it comes to conflict. And again, these can span more dismissive avoidant patterns and more fearful avoidant patterns. and you know big disclaimer none of this stuff is going to be universally true for every single person with avoidant bans obviously everyone is their own person but these tend to be the the broad shapes and contours that that you'll see for avoidant folks when it comes to conflict so I think one strategy or one response to conflict can be appeasement and this is maybe a little more surprising than some of the others that you might have come up against but I think this can absolutely be part of the broader response to conflict is like, I'll just say whatever I need to say in order to make this stop.

12:53You know, I'll say, okay, I'm sorry. Okay. Yes, I hear you. Okay. Yes, I understand. I'll just try and like come up with the thing that's going to make this be fine again. Because again, I feel really ill-equipped to be in this moment with you. I don't know what you want from me. You seem very angry. I don't really understand why. Maybe I can't, you know, if I'm being honest, I can't really empathise with why you're so upset about this thing. And so I'm just trying to problem solve and appeasement feels like a way of problem solving that. So I'll just try and like make you happy again. So whether that looks like, you know, cowering and just agreeing, apologising without much substance, all of that can be part of that appeasement strategy that some folks will use.

13:37Again, I think that's probably more of a dismissive strategy because fearful avoidance tend to have a bit more fight in them. And of course, like if you're on the receiving end of that, you can usually feel it and doesn't feel very satisfactory. You know, particularly if we consider that folks with anxious patterns tend to struggle to receive an apology or an acknowledgement or something at the best of times, because, you know, our baseline is to not really trust that. When it's kind of insincere or manufactured or forced and we can feel that, it's really easy to just keep pushing and saying, you don't really mean that, or you always say that.

14:12And then the fight just keeps going. And of course that wears the other person down because they feel like I tried to say the thing I'm meant to say and it's not working. What do I do now? So I think that can be a really easy spiral to get stuck in. Another response to conflict that you might see amongst avoidant folks is defensiveness. I've done whole episodes on defensiveness before. Actually, relatively recently, I think I did one on defensiveness. Of course, being in relationship with someone where you feel like every time you try to express a concern, a worry, a need, some feedback, and you're hit with this wall of defensiveness, that is painful and it feels really invalidating.

14:54and you feel like you are maybe unimportant to them, like they're more committed to self-protection than to their relationship, all of those stories are really common and can spring from this experience of defensiveness. But we really need to put that in context and understand that for avoidant people, you know, shame can be a big thing and feeling successful, I've talked about this before, feeling successful in themselves and in the relationship is so much a part of their identity and their relationship satisfaction. And it's really easy for them to receive your complaints or your dissatisfaction or your needs.

15:35It's almost like that's filtered through the lens of things that I'm not getting right and ways that I've messed up, ways that I'm not good enough for you, ways that I'm a disappointment, ways that I'm a failure. And so sometimes the defensiveness is coming from a place of, I need to push that back because I actually have to push back the shame or the sense of exasperation or overwhelm that I feel and that, you know, you being unhappy evokes in me because I feel like a failure. And so it's not that I'm actually trying to push away because I don't care about you. It's just like, I need that to not be valid or not be true or not be right so that I don't have to sit with whatever that evokes in me.

16:17And of course, that doesn't make it any easier to be on the receiving end of, but I think again, it's always helpful to look under the hood and go, why does this behavior keep coming up? What's driving it and what is it protecting against? Because there's always more to the picture than just like, oh, they're so defensive, they can't take any feedback, of course. okay another sort of related response to conflict that you might see amongst avoidant folks is dismissal um so whereas defensiveness might be like really actively batting back um you know feedback or needs or something like that denying something saying i don't do that or defending yourself against someone's perception of you defending your intentions um dismissal I think is another branch off that tree and is just like a brushing off, um, a, an invalidation, you know, the sorts of comments, like, do we really have to talk about this again?

17:17Or are you kidding me? Or give me a break. Things like that, that just feel really upsetting. Um, and particularly if, you know, you're someone with more anxious patterns who naturally like plucking up the courage to say the thing is not easy, even if it comes out in a bit of a fiery way. And oftentimes it will, because that's your way of protecting yourself against the vulnerability of self-advocacy and self-expression. Having someone just, you know, because the anxious tendency is to invalidate yourself so much in your own experience and, you know, I'm an R over, am I being too needy? Am I being too demanding?

17:55Am I too sensitive? Am I overthinking this? to finally say the thing and have someone mirror back to you all of those insecurities that you were already harboring, that's really painful. And that really entrenches that wound and that insecurity. It kind of collects more evidence for, yes, I am all of those things because anytime I try and speak up for myself, that's what I'm getting back is being told that, you know, I overcomplicate everything and why do I have to have so many feelings and why do we have to talk about this, all of these sentiments that can just feel like your experience is kind of tedious almost to me.

18:31Like, do we really have to do this? And of course, if you're feeling something big and you're wanting to take that to a partner, being made to feel like a nuisance or a burden is obviously not a nice feeling. And again, I think if we walk over to the other side and go, well, what's underneath that? we can see that for someone with avoidant patterns, feeling like their partner is bringing to them all of these concerns and complaints and worries and feelings. And if that's happening often, I mean, there have been times in my own relationship, even my current relationship in trickier seasons where I feel like I was bringing things to my partner, you know, at least once a week and we were having these big, heavy conversations.

19:17And I could see that that was wearing him down, but I was fighting those fights within myself of like wanting to have the conversation, but also knowing that it was probably not that helpful and that it was backfiring a bit. So that tension is really real. And I think we do have to acknowledge that for someone with more avoidant patterns, whose instinct is to, you know, retreat in the face of all of this pressure and tension and heaviness, feeling like there is this near constant onslaught of serious conversations, you know, upsets, unmet needs can just feel like such a weight and it can feel like it drowns out the relationship and the whole relationship becomes about the hard stuff.

20:02And so sometimes those comments, even though they're, I would say a little tactless and certainly unhelpful and don't do anything for, you know, trust and connection in a relationship. They're coming from this place of just like sheer exasperation of like, I didn't even realize I was doing anything wrong and you're upset with me again. And so we can sort of see both sides of that as being really real and valid, even if the tactics that each person is using are not the most effective or skillful way of expressing the need or expressing the overwhelm that they're carrying. And the fourth strategy that I wanted to name is disengagement.

20:43And that might be just like, you know, basically refusing, refusing to engage at all in the conflict, in the conversation, saying, I'm not talking about this, maybe leaving the room, maybe, you know, if you don't live together, it's like just going AWOL, going silent and kind of almost stonewalling. And that I think sometimes is just coming from a place again of like overheating and overwhelm. And like, I actually just don't even want to be anywhere near that. And sometimes I think we can acknowledge that it's coming from a place of wanting to feel more powerful when you're feeling powerless. And again, I think we all do this when we're feeling powerless, we try and compensate for that.

21:29And I think for the anxious partner, the way that we tend to compensate when we feel powerless is to get really big and puffed up and, you know, escalate in our expressiveness and maybe we get nasty and do all of the things. That's just a way to convey like the immense intensity of everything that we're feeling and caring and worrying about. So we get really big. And I think that for someone with more avoidant patterns, the way that they might find their power when they're feeling attacked, when they're feeling blamed, when they're feeling criticized, when they're feeling, judged and disapproved of is just to withhold and to refuse to engage.

22:10Because as I've talked about before, the person who refuses to engage, to withhold, to deny a conversation and just says, I'm not talking about it, literally or metaphorically crossing your arms and turning away, that person holds the balance of power. And again, it's not fair. It's not conducive to a healthy relationship dynamic. But that is the truth. And that can be part of what motivates that kind of strategy is just like, well, this is the only way that I get to feel kind of safe and in control is to just withhold. Because if I go into that, if I go into the conversation, if I go into the fray with you, then I feel very out of control and I feel very outnumbered or overpowered by your bigness and all of the words and all of the things that I've done wrong.

23:00and so the only way for me to feel kind of in control is to actually just say I'm not going to talk about it and even though I can see that that enrages you my refusal to engage is kind of how I keep myself safe in this so that's a bit of a picture of avoidant attachment and conflict now I know that this is can be hard to talk about and hard to listen to and depending on what side of the equation you have been on, you might feel like really angered by those descriptions, or you might feel like so frustrated, or you might feel so convinced that your way is justified because you're only responding to their way.

23:41And of course, that feels so true on both sides. And I think the reality is, I'm sure I'll get comments on this video, as I always do, saying, you know, how toxic and awful avoidant people are. And again, as I've said several times in this episode, I'm not suggesting that any of those strategies are helpful, constructive or conducive to, you know, healthy, secure relationships. But we have to be willing to actually look at like, okay, where's this coming from within you? What experience are you having that I maybe can't see or can't relate to because I'm coming at this from a completely different place?

24:16and what is it going to take for us to step out of this cycle so that we can do things differently because this is painful and frustrating and overwhelming for us both. And I can guarantee you that, you know, an avoidant person is not enjoying that any more than you are. So really if you want to transform those cycles, it takes a level of humility and a sense of joint endeavour rather than fighting over whose way is the right way or whose response is more justified in light of the other person's behavior. You can just do that till kingdom come and that will never, ever get you what you want, which is attunement and validation and recognition and repair.

24:58So it does take a level of courage to step out of your protective stance and actually go, okay, where are we stuck here? How do we each contribute to that stuckness? And how might we start to do things differently? Okay, so I'm going to leave it there, guys. I hope that that has been helpful for you. And as I said, if you're interested in joining the Secure Self Challenge, the early bird price is available for the next week. You can have a look at all of the details on my website. And all of that is linked in the show notes. Otherwise, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for joining me.

25:33And I look forward to seeing you again. Want to be the one who's always in the know about the game, the scores, the plays? Here's a tip. The Apple Sports app. Just pick your favorite teams and get automatic live updates without even knowing their schedules. And when your team scores, it shows up right on your iPhone lock screen, making it easy to check in anytime. So rule the group chat and download Apple Sports for free on the App Store or find it on your new iPhone. Coca-Cola. For the big. For the small. The short. And the tall. Peacemakers. Risk takers. For the optimists. Pessimists. for long-distance love, for introverts and extroverts, the thinkers and the doers, for old friends and new.

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