#274: Attachment & Conflict (Part 3): How to Experience Healthier Conflict

0:00For decades, a shadowy organization called the Lemonati has kept lemon on top and lime in the shadows. Look around. Lemon forward sodas, even lemon forward songs. We ran the tracks, slowed them down, reversed them, and squeezed out the truth. All hail for lemon. That's lemon propaganda right there. But now, 7up is fighting back with their new lime lemon soda. Join the 7up rising. Flip the sip. At ZocDoc, we know you care about your health. You wouldn't do that early morning cardio if you didn't. So the fact that your annual physical is overdue just shows how hard it can be to get seen by a doctor.

0:41Sorry, that doctor's not a network. Press 1 for more options. You've reached us outside normal business hours. The next availability is in three months. But ZocDoc makes finding the right doctor easy. Download the app and search by specialty, insurance, and availability. Read real patient reviews, then book instantly. ZocDoc, ready to be seen? Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Unattachment. In today's episode, we are talking once again about attachment and conflict. And today's episode, which is part three, is all about tips for having more productive, healthier conflict in your relationships.

1:16And I think that this will really span all of your relationships in your life, not just romantic relationships. So it's not one that won't apply to you if you're not currently in a romantic relationship. I think overall conflict is a skill that most of us are lacking in. And as we've talked about in the previous two episodes in this series, depending on our makeup, we've probably habitually learned to move away from conflict or to rush in and kind of smother conflict, try to make it go away. But few of us have a really healthy, positive blueprint around what it means to go through conflict and rupture in relationships in a way that isn't really damaging and that isn't solely about our self-protection, however that shows up.

2:01So being able to actually take in a 360 degree view of the situation to honor our experience and the other person's experience is really like relationship mastery. And it will vastly improve every relationship in your life to cultivate these skills and to be humble enough to do that work. Because I do think it takes a lot of humility and maturity to have conflict in a healthier way. So we're going to be talking about some general tips for anyone in a relationship or otherwise, you know, how you should be thinking about conflict. Ways that you might reposition your mindset to lessen the chance that you end up really stuck in a rut of villain and victim, me versus you, fighting over whose experience is the right one and both ending up feeling unheard and disconnected, which is, of course, not what we want, but often what happens.

2:56And then I'm going to go into specific tips for people with more anxious attachment patterns, as well as those with more avoidant attachment patterns, as I promised I would as a follow-up to parts one and two of this series, which were kind of a deep dive on the experience of conflict from each of those perspectives. So if you haven't listened to parts one and two, you may want to do that before listening to this episode, or you can go back afterwards. It doesn't really matter terribly much. Before we get into today's episode, I did want to remind you again that my program, the Secure Self Challenge, is coming back and it's kicking off next week.

3:34So in case you missed me talking about it, historically, I've run the Secure Self Challenge as a 28-day challenge, but for the first time ever, I've decided to build it into an eight-week program, which is really all about building self-worth and becoming someone who you genuinely like and respect and transforming that inner relationship as the foundation for transforming your other relationships in your life. And I would say your relationship to life more broadly. This is really the work for those of us in particular who have anxious attachment patterns, although I will say that this program is probably the least anxious attachment specific of my programs.

4:13So if you're someone with, for example, more fearful avoidant patterns, The Secure Self Challenge is also a really beautiful program for you to consider. But tending to that broken inner relationship and starting to show up for ourselves, starting to really know ourselves, starting to back ourselves, starting to navigate life in a way that is self-honoring on every level. It allows us to rebalance our center of gravity so that it's not over there and trying to control other people and obsessing over what they think of us or what they don't and whether they'll choose us or whether they'll leave us.

4:47All of that's so, so energy intensive and very, very draining. And it just takes us further and further away from ourselves. And we feel really lost and alone and vulnerable when we're living and relating from that place. So the Secure Self Challenge is all about bringing yourself back to base and rebuilding that foundation, not so that you don't need to go and be in relationship and you can just be your an island of solitude and independence. That's not at all the point. It's just that we relate really differently when we are comfortable with who we are and we know what we want and we're willing to stand behind that.

5:22So if that sounds like something that you might want or need, I would love to invite you into the challenge. It'll be a really beautiful opportunity to do this work with me and with other people who get it. It's a very community focused challenge. So there's plenty of interaction with me, with others, live calls, there's a community space, all of the things in addition to the video modules, which you can do in your own time. And so there's still a few more days to join, but the early bird price will be ending tomorrow. So if you are at all considering joining, today's a really good day to do it.

5:57We won't be extending that early bird price to anyone who reaches out after the deadline. So the link to all of that is in the show notes. There's all of the information on my website, you know, the full curriculum, FAQs, all of the things. So go check it out if you're at all interested and consider joining us for the challenge, which kicks off next week. Okay, so let's talk about how to have healthier conflict. Now, as I said in the introduction, I think a really key overarching piece is ensuring that you're both approaching the whole idea of conflict in your relationship from as constructive and collaborative a place as possible.

6:34Because as we all know from experience, it's really, really easy to slip into this very antagonistic oppositional mindset of needing to figure out who's wrong and who's right and whose experience is more valid and whose behavior is justified having regard to the other person who started it and all of the things, right? And naturally, of course, we live in our own experience and that's how we see the world. So, of course, we think that we only did our thing because they did their thing first. And that's always going to feel true to both of us. We think that we're responding to someone else rather than starting it.

7:10And all of the things, right, we could just argue until the cows come home about the truth. But the real truth is that we're both having an experience of each other and of the moment. And if we keep trying to fight over whose experience is right, we will just keep fighting. And that's not ultimately what we want. What we really want is to feel connected to this person who we love and who we value and who we are maintaining a relationship with. And we want to feel like they care about us and our experience. We want to feel attuned to. We want to feel like they understand or at least that they're trying to understand.

7:48These are the things that we actually want. So just going to battle over whose experience or emotion or response or all of that is justified is a big waste of time. And we just need to like park that because it's never going to get us what we want. Right. So really step one in all of this is when it comes to conflict, I need to shift out of that oppositional approach and into curiosity as much as I can. so curiosity really just asks us to pause in our judgment and our analysis and actually inquire as to what someone else might be going through how they might be seeing the situation how our good intentions might not have landed as we'd hoped that they would have how we might have been misunderstood along the way and really approaching the whole situation from this place of we're on the same team and this conflict cycle that we get sucked into so reliably is our common enemy that we want to be protecting ourselves against.

8:51That's the piece that we want to be really watching rather than protecting ourselves against each other. Because naturally, whenever we're in this stance of feeling like we need to protect ourselves against the other person, then it's really, really hard to ever find connection from that place because we have very limited empathy for someone who we feel threatened by. So, you know, if you are in a relationship, I think a really great starting point saying like, let's not do this. We're on the same team. Let's not go into our usual conflict. Let's not let this get the better of us. Can we pause and reset?

9:25I think having that, that reminder, it's almost like a circuit break of you and I, we love each other. We care about each other. Let's not get sucked into old patterns because they are so, so easy to get sucked into and we all know that. So I think being able to remind ourselves of that overarching vision and goal and intention that like we are on the same team and we do want good things for one another and for our relationship and we can get through the friction of a moment that gets misconstrued or a concern or unmet needs or whatever other challenges we might be facing. the purpose of us being in a relationship together is to face those things as a team.

10:07And I think when you can shift out of fighting each other to fighting against those unhealthy patterns that you get drawn into, that's a really powerful shift. I think another helpful general tip is to really not be afraid of taking a time out or having a redo or just like taking the the pressure out of the moment if you can feel something escalating. And this is just an area where you have to exercise some responsibility because it's so tempting to just like chase that escalating tension, right? When you feel so fired up and you feel like they're doing their thing and you want to react and they're pushing your buttons and you're pushing their buttons.

10:48It's really oftentimes it's quite frustrating to not follow that because the urge is so strong and you've got all this energy in your system that's saying like take the bait and go. So I usually think that there's like a huge degree of maturity and love actually in declining to participate in that escalating back and forth when you can feel like something's picking up some heat and you know where it's going to go. Saying something like okay this is clearly not working as a conversation right now on this moment like let's take a breather let's come back to this later or can I start again because I feel like this isn't landing very well.

11:25Can I have another go? Like just really finding a way to reset and either taking a pause away from the conflict altogether or just acknowledging that it's not going to plan rather than kind of buckling in and going for it. I think all of those little gestures of goodwill signal to the other person, even on a subconscious level, like this person is not my enemy, right? They are not trying to hurt me. They're not out to get me. And I don't have to have my guard up. I don't need to be ready to go into battle with this person. So as much as possible, finding ways to signal love and care and consideration in those moments where we know that the heat is rising a little.

12:06Because realistically, and I've said this before, and if you've done any of my programs, you will have heard me talk about it. When we become dysregulated and in those moments when we're both dysregulated, our systems are just registering the other person as a threat and that leads us to feel more dysregulated. We can't really have healthy conflict when we're both really fired up, when the tension's running really high, when we're both feeling attacked and blamed and judged and it's bringing up all of our stuff from all of the other moments that maybe didn't get resolved. Like it's really, really hard to get anything done from that place.

12:43And as I said earlier, the thing that we all want, which is like attunement and understanding and connection and for someone to see us in the experience we're having. We're not going to get it in those moments. So we should really just stop trying to push through and trying to be right and trying to overpower the other person and actually just almost like taking a bird's eye view and go, yeah, this is not worth doing right now. This is not going to lead me or us where I want us to go. So being, you know, humble and courageous enough to actually just decline to participate in a really loving way and say like, look, let's not do this right now.

13:19It doesn't feel like it's going to end well. And I don't want that for us. I think it's a really beautiful personal boundary to have in your relationships. And for anyone who might be thinking like, why do I have to be the one to lead that? Because I know that that can be a bit of a sore point, particularly for a lot of people in anxious avoidant dynamics, feeling like, well, they're not going to be responsible and boundaried and be learning about how to have healthier conflict. So why does it fall to me? It doesn't fall to you. It's something that you can choose to do for yourself and for the relationship, or you can choose not to do it.

13:54But like that, that's entirely your choice. So you can absolutely exercise your right to continue having dysfunctional, unhealthy conflict where you're reactive and lash out and do all of the things. If that's what you want, just to prove a point that you shouldn't have to be the one to do things differently, then go for your life. But I don't think that that's really what you want. So in all of this, I think we have to look at where's my agency, where's my power, where's my choice. And that resides with how we respond, the choices that we make. And from that place, oftentimes our relationships take a new path and new things become possible because we've decided to clean up our side of the street and lead the way towards a different way of doing things in our relationship.

14:38So I don't think that you can really lose by deciding that you're going to step out of your part of the dance. Okay, so moving now to some more specific tips for anxious partners, and then I'll speak to some specific tips for avoidant partners. And these are more like little in the moment things based on how you typically show up during conflict and ways that you could maybe course correct so that you don't fall into those or exacerbate the cycles and the patterns that you probably find yourself in when it comes to conflict. So as I talked about in the episode on anxious attachment and conflict, what's very common is to speed up and to say lots of things and to kind of go into overdrive and overwhelm the other person emotionally and cognitively.

15:20It's just like a lot to be on the receiving end of, oftentimes because you've been bottling it up and you've been rehearsing it and practicing it and saying all of the things in your head and having the imaginary conversations. And so when you finally get your window of opportunity, it's like all systems go. And particularly if you have an avoidant partner, that can be a lot to kind of sit and receive. So my first tip for you, if you're someone with anxious patterns, is just to slow down a lot and say fewer words. Resist the urge to fill every silence with more words or more poking and prodding.

15:55I used to be really, really terrible at this in my previous relationship. If my partner was kind of sitting, processing something that I'd said, I couldn't tolerate the silence or I'd interpret it as, you know, him not caring or him kind of zoning out or ignoring me. And so I'd keep poking and saying, like, aren't you going to say something? Are you just going to sit there? I just really couldn't handle sitting in the stillness of that when so much fire was happening inside of me. And so that's something that I had to really work on. And my current relationship, when we have conflict or big conversations, which is much less often than we used to, and certainly much less often than I used to in my previous relationship.

16:39But when we do, there'll often be extended silences. And that's absolutely fine for me. I'm pretty comfortable to leave that space because I know that my partner is processing and that in order for him to give me the kind of thoughtful considered response that I ultimately want. He needs that space to be able to do it and he needs to not feel the pressure of me kind of looming over him. So really try and give more space to the conversation. Try not to overwhelm the other person with all of the words and all of the caveats and all of the context and explanation. And that's oftentimes a thing that we do because we're trying to micromanage how we're received and we want to make sure that we are perfectly understood.

17:29And that makes sense because we've probably got a history of feeling misunderstood or invalidated or dismissed. And so we're trying to almost like preemptively buffer against that happening. But I think oftentimes it actually just hits the other person like this big wall of anxiety that they have to absorb and it's a lot. So finding a way to just say what you need to say in as plain language as you can, and then leaving some space for the other person to respond, I think is a really, really good skill for you to practice and to work on. And it will be something that you'll need to practice because it won't come naturally for most people.

18:04Okay. Next tip for anxious attachers is try and keep the conversation to one issue. Again, I think because we're so accustomed to feeling invalidated or dismissed or brushed off when we bring a concern, we'll often try and like really bolster our case, so to speak, by pulling all of the examples of all of the times that this has happened. And it's not just this, it's also that, and it's this and it's that. And we try and make our feelings inarguable. And we try and prove to them without a shadow of a doubt that they really have done this thing, or they have hurt us in this way, and we are justified to feel the way we do.

18:43And of course, like, again, that's coming from a really earnest place of wanting to be understood, but it often has the effect of the other person just feeling like ambushed and attacked because it's not just like, oh, you're coming at me about this thing, but you've also been harboring all of these other things that apparently I've been messing up or disappointing you with. And almost always you're just going to get defensiveness or shut down when you go in with the full shopping list of complaints and criticisms and bringing in all of the past things and maybe trying to like relitigate or reopen past conversations that never fully felt resolved.

19:19Like all of that is really counterproductive. And what will almost always happen is you won't get resolution on any of those things. The conversation will just escalate and then kind of spiral and end without anything satisfactory. Whereas if you keep it to one issue, then you're actually in with a shot at getting somewhere on that one issue and that's a better outcome than getting nowhere on 15 issues. So I know that it's really hard to do that, to keep the focus narrow, because you probably do have all of these other things that have been bothering you that you haven't been speaking up on. But I think that over time, as you build a healthier culture in your relationship around conflict and you feel like there's a bit more positive momentum and you actually start to have healthier conversations around conflict and you start to rewire that blueprint that says, oh, okay, conflicts can be had in a way that feels emotionally safe and productive and we actually get somewhere, then you probably won't end up harboring all of those worries and pushing them down until they explode.

20:24So I think over the long term, if you can just try and clock some wins, so to speak, then that will only be of benefit to the broader pattern that you have around expressing things around self-advocacy and around conflict and resolution. Okay. And the third tip for anxiously attached people is try to accept a good enough solution and try and figure out what that might be. I think for a lot of us, we can really hold out for like the perfect solution, the guarantee that that's never going to happen again. And you're never going to feel hurt and they're never going to leave you or they're never going to like, we really want certainty because our anxiety is so braced for disappointment and hurt and betrayal and all of those things.

21:06And so it's really hard to actually accept an apology, a commitment, an acknowledgement. We want to look for the holes in it. We want to look for the flaws. And so it's really common to say things like, well, you said that last time and it hasn't changed. So why should I believe you now? Or something like that, which again, makes sense if it has been an extended pattern of this. And that's maybe another conversation if you've given someone 50 chances to change something that feels really important and they're still doing whatever they're doing. But when we just push back and shut down every effort at repair or apology or offering a solution, it can make it feel really unwinnable for the other person.

21:47And that can be pretty demoralizing. They can kind of check out and just throw their hands up and say, well, I give up. I don't know what you want from me. and then we feel more invalidated and like they don't care and like they're not really trying and that hurts. We all know how that goes. I'm sure you know how that goes. I certainly do. So I think really what we can do there is know when to accept something that is good enough. It may not be the perfect solution. It may not be a guarantee that nothing is ever going to happen again. That's not something anyone can give us. But I think we need to see when someone is trying and again coming back to this spirit of collaboration and go okay I appreciate that maybe it's like step one in a solution that's going to take many steps but accept the step one and agree to check back in in a week or whatever just try and again like get some momentum clock some wins so that you feel some sense of of success out of the conversation and like you're coming back together in connection and a joint vision, because that's what's really going to allow you to move forward and move away from that conversation, feeling like you've accomplished something.

22:57And I think that's really, really important for both people. Okay. So now I want to move to some tips for avoidant people in conflict. I'm seeing how long this episode's getting. I'm wondering if I should have split this up, but anyway, we're going to go with it. And the first one is, if you don't know what to say, if you're feeling a bit shell-shocked, a bit like a deer in the headlights, a bit overwhelmed by your partner's emotionality or expressiveness or the things that they're saying to you that might feel accusatory, say, I don't know what to say. Okay. Articulate the fact that you're struggling to find your words because it's okay that you maybe operate differently to your partner in those moments.

23:35You might feel like you kind of go numb or you check out or you slow way down. You can't find your words. You don't really know what to say. that's fine. But when you just sit silently and stare into space or stare into your lap or just say nothing for really extended periods of time, it's really easy for that to come across as I don't care, I'm not really paying attention or I'm not really invested in this conversation. And even if that's not the truth, if you have a partner with more anxious attachment patterns, there's a really good chance that they're going to interpret it that way because they are very susceptible to feeling like they're too much, like their feelings are a burden, like people don't care about them.

24:16And so if you can say, I'm listening to you, I'm just taking this in and processing. I don't really know what to say right now, but I'm here. Right. That is so much better than saying nothing. And it doesn't really take much from you other than just to deliver the line and to try and say it sincerely and with love. So I think that just an acknowledgement of that, or even saying I'm feeling overwhelmed or I'm feeling defensive is so much better than just like doing the thing. So don't hesitate to narrate your inner experience. If you can't actually find the words to say, or you're feeling a bit overwhelmed, just say I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed.

25:01And as I said at the start, taking a breather is absolutely fine. It's just really important that you come back to the conversation because I think for people with more avoidant patterns, the temptation is to just pull away and stay away and try your luck at not bringing the conversation up again and see if you've kind of gotten away with it, so to speak, which will almost certainly infuriate your partner. So try not to do that. I think another really important tip for avoidant folks is to actually advocate for your own experience in conflict. I think this gets missed a bit because most people with avoidant patterns either collapse into appeasement and just want the conversation to end.

25:38So they sort of apologize for everything and say whatever they need to say to just make it stop or very defensive and just bat everything back and refuse to engage. But neither of those extremes offers any space for your own self-advocacy and for your own sharing about how that's impacting you. in a really honest and vulnerable way. And so I think that it does tend to end up being about the anxious partner's emotional experience a lot of the time. And that creates this asymmetry on both sides. I think both partners perceive an unfairness. And what you'll often hear from avoidant folks is you've always got something that you want to talk about.

26:19I never complain to you about how I'm feeling. I'm never coming to you with my unmet needs. It's just always you coming to me. And so I think that there's something in that, which is that it's important for you to start learning to identify like what that feels like for you and actually speaking it. And again, that might feel like really uncharted territory. And of course, when your whole impression of conflict is like it is not worth it, nothing good comes of it. The likelihood of you bringing more things into that space is maybe low. But I think part of actually creating a healthier relationship overall is being able to have more balance around conflict and there being space for both of your experiences rather than it all revolving around one person's experience and the other person just feeling a bit overwhelmed or suffocated by the responsibility of responding to that or managing that or providing reassurance or apologizing all the time.

27:17So I think if there are things that you're feeling resentful about or harboring, rather than just using those as the basis for kind of pulling away or turning away, shutting down, disconnecting, bring them to your partner. And that's like a real growth edge for you is being able to speak those things, the things that are bothering you, the things that don't feel great. Try to trust that your partner can handle your honesty. And maybe that can, maybe they can't. You'll only know by trying, but I think it's a really important exercise for you in taking up more space in your own relationship because the alternative just proves your stories about relationship to be right, that they're more trouble than they're worth.

28:00They mainly take from you rather than give to you and all of those things. It's just easier if I'm alone. that will only ever be proven untrue if you're brave enough to step out of your pattern and actually run the experiment and see what might happen if you do take up more space, if you do allow yourself to be seen and known and cared for in the way that you actually want to be cared for rather than just in the way that someone else maybe wants to care for you. Okay, another thing for avoidant folks, this hopefully goes without saying, but really try not to engage in any kind of language that feels really dismissive.

28:33Things like, oh, do we have to talk about this? Or like, give me a break? Or here we go again? Or I'm not doing this right now? Like anything like that, that conveys this is tedious and burdensome. And I don't have the time, energy, interest, or patience to deal with you right now. I think that that can come up a lot. And it's really, really damaging to the relationship and particularly again if you have a partner with more anxious patterns that's just going to feel confirming of all of their worst fears and it's going to lead them much more intensely into their anxiety and their insecurity which is only going to make the whole thing worse so out of love and care for your partner even if that's your internal dialogue, bite your tongue on those things.

29:23It's not helpful. It's not loving. And I think it's one that you really want to just have some boundary around because that will only lead to negative consequences for your relationship. If you're putting those things into the space, it really, really exacerbates the cycle. Even if it feels really true, even if you do feel overwhelmed and exasperated and suffocated and worn down, say that you're feeling worn down, and you're feeling overwhelmed, don't say those kind of offhanded, snide remarks that can land really unkindly with your partner. And the last thing that I'll say, and I sort of alluded to this before, is if you do need to take a break, it's good to be really clear around the parameters for that.

30:07So rather than just saying like, I'm not doing this right now, I'm leaving the room, or, you know, if you aren't physically together, like hanging up the phone or refusing to respond to messages or just kind of cutting it off unilaterally, that's just going to leave your partner hanging and they're going to, again, like massively ramp up in their anxiety and their stress response. So what you want to do as an alternative that still allows you to get your needs met around the space, because that is a really important regulatory tool for you. And I would say that avoidant folks probably have better instincts than anxious folks around, you know, taking some space away when things are getting heated.

30:44Anxious folks just tend to be a bit like a dog with a bone and keep pushing. I say that as someone with that proglivity, but say something like, okay, I need a break. I'm feeling myself getting heated. Let's talk about this in two hours or let's talk about this tonight. Set the bookend for when you're going to come back to it and honor the bookend. Don't just leave it and hope that you can kind of get away with not having the conversation and maybe they'll forget. I promise you they're not going to forget. They're going to be counting down the minutes until you come back to sort of test whether you're going to stand by your word.

31:22There's a whole nother conversation to be had around whether that's a helpful thing to do. And as a side note, during any time and space apart in conflict, you know, if you've taken deliberate time out and you're on the more anxious side, don't spend that time just mulling over everything and rehearsing what you're going to say and like continuing to get your system riled up. That defeats the whole point. But going back to the avoidant side. You know, take the time and space that you need, but be respectful and be considerate and do what you say you're going to do. So if you say you're going to come back to the conversation, come back to the conversation, even though it's probably not what you want to do.

31:57And even though you'll probably have to kind of drag yourself to it, do the right thing because it's respectful of your partner and the relationship more broadly. And the more that you do that and prove yourself to be trustworthy around conflict, the safer they're going to feel, the safer you're going to feel it's just going to be a win-win for everyone. Okay, so that was a bit of a rundown on some tips for healthier conflict. I hope that that's been helpful. As I said, while the focus was kind of on romantic relationships, as is usually the case on this podcast, I do think that a lot of those tools could be applied to non-romantic relationships because these are really just life and relationship skills and so, so useful if we are wanting to improve the safety and the depth and the connection in our relationships, being able to sit in the discomfort of conflict without just defaulting to all of those protective patterns that we might have is so, so valuable and something we should all be striving to cultivate in our relationships.

32:58So hope that that's been helpful. As I said, if you do want to join me in the Secure Self Challenge, today's a really good day to sign up. You know, one of the pillars that we focus on is self-advocacy. And so we do learn all about healthier communication in the broader context of self-worth with a particular focus on how self-advocacy just lands differently and feels different when it's coming from a place of really healthy self-esteem rather than, you know, fear and desperation and panic and control and all of the things that can come up when we're in that really insecure place. But otherwise, thanks so much for joining me and I look forward to seeing you again next time.

33:34Thanks guys.