Best Actress Power Rankings with Jacqueline Coley, Plus Rosalind Eleazar's Fight to Play Misty Green

0:00But I was sort of semi-meditating, trying to talk to Chris Rock across the pond, going, why I think I'm right for the part, you know. And at some point, I genuinely thought I had made contact.

0:14And when I got set, I said, Chris, did you at any point, you know, feel me talking to you? And he was like, no.

0:27Hi, everyone. I'm Katie Rich. This is the Prestige Junkie Podcast. And today, a sequel to last week's Best Actor-focused episode. We're going to take a deep dive on Best Actress once again with two guests joining me to share our list of 10 actresses we think are in the race. Christopher Rosen, my colleague here at The Ankler, back again for this. And joining us this time is the awards editor at Rotten Tomatoes and host of the Scene on the Screen podcast with Jacqueline Coley. It's Jacqueline Coley. Thank you so much for being here, Jacqueline. Thank you for having me. and I pity that you had to say that.

0:59That's the name of the show. Look, I just say your name twice. We need all of our guests. We need to say their names twice. Just make sure it sticks in the brains of the listeners. Thanks. Happy to do it. Happy to be here talking about all this. Obviously, it's a word season. What else are we going to talk about? So after we do our Best Actress Countdown, you're going to hear a conversation with probably someone whose name is going to come up. That's Rosalind Elazar, the star of the new film, Misty Green. I'll be talking to her afterwards. So much coming up. Welcome to the show. Okay, Chris, I once again jumped right over you in the intro with the excitement to welcome our guests.

1:32I'll go to you first, Chris. Best actress. How are you feeling about it at this point? Pretty good. We were talking about this a lot over the summer, and it was like, what did we say, like a flexible field of contenders, not as like top heavy or filled with. Not weak. And I'm looking at it, I'm like, man, there's so many. I have like a long list of 10 here, and I kept knocking people off. And so I'm like, I don't know. I'm encouraged by this. I think the issue is probably a lot of these movies are not like the big best picture contenders. Right. But there are so many like really great performances this year.

2:03That makes it kind of fun for me, because I think you even though we maybe all have the same number one, I don't know. I think it'll be flexible without throughout. And I'll be curious to see like how this race actually shakes out. Jacqueline, how was your experience making your list of 10? I mean, I hate to be like so like contrarian about it. But I honestly felt that like as I was looking at some of the other sites and seeing where people are, that it is so wide open that I feel like even the folks that are in the top 10 of what you would assume, like there's people down in like the 30s and 40s on some sites that I'm like, I think that's like much more of a thing.

2:39And it's still crazy to me how much I feel we have a bias against international performances. Maybe they just haven't been seen as much yet, but I'm just kind of like, girl, what's the tea? Are you making a bias like in general or just this season in terms of how we're looking at the field? When it comes to predicting acting performances, I think we all now know that there will be a huge portion of international representation in Best Picture. But when it comes to actress, it almost feels like we spend four months reminding people that these performances are really good. And then then we finally start predicting them where they should be.

3:13It is interesting because the history of international features in Best Picture obviously is relatively short as the Academy's got more international. but you've got international performances winning Oscars going back to the 50s. Like, it's not that uncommon a thing. And I think you're totally right that we forget that they don't have to go hand in hand. And you can have an international film that gets that one nomination, but that's enough. Jacqueline, we haven't had you on the show yet this season. So how are you feeling about the season in general? Like, is this going to be a fun Oscar race for you?

3:40I actually do. And I will not say, but I've heard from a couple of people that the Governor's Awards, which is always, I think, a very good indication of how I would say deep and heavy the season is going to be, is going to be quite the affair this year. And of course, with the Tom Cruise of it all, I'll never forget when Top Gun was in the Best Picture race that year. That added a heft to the season. This year, you look at it, it's like Tom Cruise, Robert Pattinson, Zendaya, Taylor Swift. Like these are going to be people that we're probably going to see. And because of it, I hate to say to quote Gary Oldman, they're bringing everybody.

4:18When did Gary Oldman say that? What is that? Yeah, everyone. Like they're bringing everyone. You think Taylor Swift going to the governor's awards? She must be, right? Absolutely. I really do because I think she wants it. I think she, in some ways, depending on how you read the press, you may need it. But yeah, I think she does. I think she's very happy to just, she went to the VMAs, y 'all. to digress on Taylor Swift for a second you know as people are hearing this VMAs have been a while but Chris do you think that Taylor Swift has done enough to beat Jesse Eisenberg with his songs from the debut that most people have not heard at this point so we won't go into it in detail but is Taylor really in it to kill Jesse Eisenberg in the process?

4:56I mean I don't know about killing Jesse Eisenberg but I think like she's definitely in it I like I just don't believe I don't know what their appetite will be for Taylor Swift and I like Jacqueline's point like not her not the greatest buzz right now in terms of like the tracks the new tracks and like all of it it's just like not a great vibe i think she could turn around certainly the song is great from toy story which really helps i think that's great the movie is going to be like a big contender for animated feature probably but i don't know i don't know what's going to win i've been like is jesse eisenberg going to win what if it's the song from la bola negra i mean we'll we should do a whole episode on we'll do we'll do we'll have diane warren on to come yeah get diane on what about diane by any means oh diane has she's got a song everyone she's got a song it's she also adopted a pig like a famous pig in west hollywood jacqueline do you as someone who goes to a lot of these events do you think diane warren's bringing the pig to one of them diane saw the news clips and saw the little pig running in west hollywood um and she just called me and said please get the pig get the pig wilbur will be calling a seven acre animal sanctuary in malibu home marcia says wilbur will be living his best life along with other animal friends and eating gourmet salads every day.

6:11Honestly, depending on the accessibility rules, I wouldn't put it past it. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know how that pig is in her life, but maybe it's registered as a service animal. I'm not here to say. That's her journey. But I wouldn't mind seeing a pig. By any means, she will get that pig into it. But if she does it, it may cause consternation. Because remember, the last time we put an animal on the awards campaign with Messi for Anatomy of a Fall, people were calling the next day being like, you can't bring out the dog. So then like Diane Warren might be accused of tampering. I don't want that for her or the pig.

6:45I think if Rocky the Puppet can do it, then the pig has an AI, I assume. James Ortiz, shout out to that man. I'm so happy for him in the voice community. That is just such a cool moment. Anyway, back to this. I know. Okay, so yeah, we're on Digression City, which is obviously where all these conversations go. So let's talk about Best Actress. So what you were saying, Jacqueline, about the star quotient of the Governor's Awards, I think is totally true. We did Best Actor last week, talked about a ton of really huge A-list stars. Best Actress isn't really like that. There's a few in there, but there's a lot of discoveries, which I think is so fascinating.

7:17Best Actress is a category where we often do discover people. I mean, Mikey Madison, not that long ago. So I'm curious about how many names we're going to get into here that maybe we've only seen one performance from them. Maybe they haven't spent any time in L.A. and see how they kind of win the circuit over. But let's start at number 10. I have a list of 15 I managed to do, so I'm curious about how many of them we get to eventually. Jacqueline, I will go to you first. Who do you have in your 10th spot for Best Actress? Okay. Well, first of all, I will admit that with some of these, I think we have official notification on who it is, but I'm going with Jung Doyon from Possible Love.

7:53I personally feel that it is a cusp nomination right now. I feel any one of the 10 that I'm about to name could be that starting five. And she is that one that I was speaking to where I'm like, I don't know if people are going to get this. It's a subtle performance, but I find it to be devastating. And more so than some of the other names that have put forth in this one. I'm actually later today going to be talking to the cast. Burning, I remember the disappointment that happened with Steven Yeun around that performance. He eventually got there with Minari. I hope that we correct it this time around and realize that the subtle filmmaking of someone like him is something that we actually want to reward because those acting performances are so much harder than the broad Robert Pattinson in prime time type stuff.

8:42And I do feel like they should be rewarded as well. So that's my 10. Well, Impossible Love is such a great ensemble. It's about these two couples. It really thrives by seeing all of these people bounce off of each other. But you do kind of single her out as a lead. Like she is. She feels like the person to single out from that group, which is not always easy to do with those ensemble heavy films. And I think Netflix knows it. Like, I mean, you're about to go work with them, but it does seem like they know that her performance is the one everyone's been talking about. Absolutely. It reminds me similarly of Sally Hawkins and Happy Go Lucky.

9:12with Lee, obviously, just that happy melancholy that you see, jovial sadness, as I like to say. And I hope it can lend itself to that. If the people of Possible Love who are in a similar type of movie don't take that from her. Yeah. Sally Hawkins, a famous Oscar snob, right? So we're going to hopefully, we're going to correct history. Hopefully it goes, yeah, it goes better. Yes. Hopefully it goes better. Have you seen Possible Love yet? Regrettably not yet, but I do have Gian coming up in my picks as well. All right. Well, then we won't spoil that yet. So let's get into your number 10. My number 10, I just went like big star here for just number 10.

9:51I have Zendaya for the drama, which I didn't love when I first watched it. And then I rewatched it specifically because we were doing this episode. And I was like, what if that's the best she's ever been in anything? I thought she's so good in it. I think it's like a really tricky part, obviously, because of like the twist. But you're really she really gets, I think, to the heart of that character in a great way. Pattinson's fun in that movie for sure. But like, I think she's like the whole thing. And I don't think she'll get nominated for it. But I have her at 10 just because I was like, I was really impressed with her in the movie.

10:20And maybe I mean, who knows? Are they going to run that as a Golden Globe comedy? I guess you could. And maybe she gets in there. But like, who knows? But I thought she was great. I thought she's really great. And definitely like we've talked about like with Pattinson and Sandra Huller, who maybe we'll talk about in a little bit, probably. and Anne Hathaway, a person who's had so many great big things this year, right, for Zendaya. But like, I don't think she's probably going to make it into the Oscars for any of these. But I do think the drama was like her her peak of these performances, having not seen Dune yet, but assuming like I kind of could I get I get the Dune thing.

10:53So she's great. She's great in Dune, no doubt, no doubt. But I'm like, I get it. I really like it. You know what you're in for. Yeah, it is. Of all those people who've had these banner years, she is the hardest one to come up with the obvious nomination for. And I do think you're right that it's the drama. But, Jacqueline, I don't know where you are and how people are talking about the drama. A24 has so much. That movie was a hit, but it's spikier and harder to wrap your arms around. How bullish are you feeling on Zendaya? Well, always I feel very bullish on Zendaya, if I'm being honest. I may have her a little bit higher up on my list.

11:25So, listen, this is a homework call. I think the way that she has been able to navigate Hollywood by finding interesting roles, despite the fact that they have been desperately trying to pin her down to one. And I think the drama is an excellent example of her doing just that. I agree with Chris that I don't know if they're going to get behind this performance as her best actress moment, but I love her being in it as sort of a precursor to it because I think we all know that I believe she's going to start soon with the Barry Jenkins Renette's feature. Oh my God, I hope so. And to me, I'm like, make it happen, kids.

12:00Yeah. Like this one needs to, this needs to, it works for Regina. It needs to work for our girl. Well, and we talk about how people like have their Oscar buzz. It doesn't quite get them there to kind of lay the groundwork for the next one. Zendaya doesn't have to lay groundwork. She's an enormous star. That movie will be an event basically no matter what, but it couldn't hurt. I mean, I do think laying groundwork with different people. I will always say it's the difference between Taylor Swift and Billie Eilish. That songwriting branch we all know is quite prickly, has always seen Billie Eilish as a songwriter, like through and through.

12:30and for whatever reason with like bigger pop stars. They've always seen Lady Gaga as a songwriter through and through and less so with Beyonce and Taylor Swift, who up until the point that Beyonce got it with King Richard, every effort that she had made to get into the best song category was sort of like left out. And I think there's a little bit of that with Zendaya and the Oscars because she, let's be real, her biggest amounts of success have been on television as far as like prestige. And inspiring movies. Yeah, and prestige. And then her biggest moments in film are all popcorn blockbuster, you know, sort of like the difference between Robert Downey Jr.

13:05campaigning for Endgame versus Oppenheimer, like that kind of thing. So I will see. I feel like after getting my heart broken about Challengers where just for months I was like why wouldn't we nominate Zendaya she is amazing in a hit movie put her in there I think it was a week best actor's field I can't even remember and then it didn't happen and ever since then I've been like oh spring hits are so hard but maybe in a post sinners world we can get more of the spring movies attention that they deserve okay so I'll go with my 10 I put Carrie Coon on here for oh my god I forgot the title deliberation thank you It didn't have a title until like a month before TIFF, so it's not so crazy.

13:44I saw this movie at TIFF. I do think she's pretty terrific in it. She's someone who's also been more of a success on television. She's been nominated for The Gilded Age. I think she got nominated for The Leftovers also. That movie is small. It is a Bleecker Street release. Bleecker Street also has another movie we'll probably talk about that may be more of an Oscar thing. This is the 10th slot. It's a real, like, I don't know how this movie is going to pop. But I think for a lot of these actresses who might be the sole nominees for their movies, it is a question of like, can they get it in front of people?

14:11And we might not know until the Globe's nominations or Critics' Stories nominations come out if these movies have the staying power. But I think if people see the liberation, if people have liked Carrie Coon on The Gilded Age, that they would see this and be impressed with her. I definitely agree. Also, White Lotus, she had one of the best parts of that season. Of course, I said, right over White Lotus. No, no, but I mean, but she's such a chameleon, you don't even like recognize her. Like people forget she's an Avenger or a villain from the Avengers movies too. It's crazy. I absolutely did forget that.

14:38Which one? She's like one of the kill people that are like trying to kill Vision. I don't know her name. She's a witch, like legitimately. Like that woman is just able to transform in a way that really defies the acting profession and not with even makeup. She just does it with her face. Yeah. You just need to get enough New York Oscar voters who have seen her on Broadway and admire her for that to get it in there. So I'll be rooting for it. OK, Jacqueline, you're number nine. Okay. On my number nine, I'm going a little bit more traditional, but also outside of the American indie space. And that's Gentle Monster with Lili Sadeau.

15:15I will go ahead and say, I actually think this film is a hard watch. It's about pedophilia and online communities. And in just in our current climate, it just literally feels like there's that French story of the woman who was abused. It feels very of that ilk. And so it's not like a movie that could be like, you really need to tune in for this one. But her performance in this is absolutely layered and difficult and captivating. And considering, I think, what her body of work is this year and the incredible sort of decisions that she's made with this. Yeah, I particularly feel that this one is something that needs to be recognized, despite the fact that she's got several performances that people would also agree are going to fall within that category.

15:55This is the one I feel, I don't know, I just I felt it was the harder performance. Well, Netflix is very high on it. They picked this up at Cannes. I remember being at Cannes and seeing Netflix people being like, you gotta see it. And I was like, okay, I can see the passion here. I mean, it's interesting you've not picked two Netflix movies that are international with this actress. I don't know. They have a lot of resources. They might not have to choose between them. But I am curious if the possible love momentum for that movie overall makes it harder for Leia to do somehow. I mean, this is what's so weird.

16:24With Netflix, they start with a lot and they go to a little. But I always find that they're better served the more they have. It's worse when they only have three because then they may be pushing one thing to the other. At least with this one, you might end up with the All Quiet on the Western Front situation where that movie was maybe not their dog in the stable the first time when they were looking at phase one. But at the time you got to phase two, it was like, this is probably number two in the best picture voting. I kind of like it better that way. I feel like they're more successful. Well, it feels like they try to learn that lesson and now they know LaBona Negra is their guy.

16:59that's the uh maybe i like when they change course and then they're like no we've you know what i mean like i hate to say it but be like what are you talking about we've loved this girl since the start i don't mind that either because it's sometimes just as successful yeah that's true i mean well if you can follow the puck where it's going right that's that's the way you do it smart because some people can't some people it's too late i look at um what was the paramount movie september five like oh sure like maybe i think it was me and scott firewood were the old people that were homer in for that movie.

17:28And I was like, listen, I actually think this thing could win. Chris, I don't know how you were on the September 5th at all, but that to me is like a perfect example of like, some people can't get it together in the end. I mean, Netflix is really, always really good at pivoting. I just love that they're always able to pivot. And so like, and I think that's a strength that they show every year where it's just like, if this is the one, like whatever is going to be the one, they'll end up being able to be on top of it when it happens. And that's not an accident. That actually means that they actually, at the beginning of it, put a lot of effort into it.

17:57Because trying to do that midstream is difficult. That's exactly right. Chris, have you seen Gentle Monster? Boy, Netflix is going to be so mad if they're listening to this. God, Chris. I can read the subtitles. I haven't seen it yet. But I do agree that I know she's supposed to be incredibly good in it. And so I think of her, like you were mentioning, we rarely even mention Lea Sidhu. And we were talking about like Pattinson's and Zayas's, Sandra Hulers, but she has so many things this year. I do think it would be like, that does feel like the one that will take probably attention for her as the season moves forward and will get a lot more of the oxygen.

18:29So I think that's a smart bet. When I think about how she's not that old, but she's worked with a lot of people and has worked for a long time. She's made a lot of people money. If you're in successful movies, we always think of that as a staying power. So unlike John Doe Young, who might be a full-on discovery in an international film, let's say it was a face that people know. They may have worked with her and like her, and that helps too. Absolutely. All right, Chris, your ninth place contender. Number nine here for me is Rosalind Elazar, who's your guest on the pod here for Misty Green, which I think she's absolutely awesome in the movie.

19:01It's like she's literally the whole movie. It feels like to me. I mean, no disrespect to the great supporting players that Chris Rock include and put in the movie, including himself in a surprisingly big role. I was kind of shocked. Big role Chris Rock has in the movie. But Rosalind Elazar. He's third build and in the hat he wears is fourth build, actually. But I thought she's really great in the movie. I think she could call even though she's been a successful actress for a long time and is on slow horses. I think she qualifies as a discovery or like a breakthrough for people because they haven't seen her previous work or don't recognize her from her previous work.

19:34Yeah, I just think she's great in the in the movie. And like the only reason I have her down here and I'll be curious to see where you guys place her is I'm just I think people watch the movie. I do think they will because like you get to say like I'm going to like I think as your screeners are piling up or in your inbox, you're going to be like, I want to watch a Chris Rock movie. That seems like something I would prefer to watch over maybe some of these other more challenging movies. That said, I don't know if the movie itself is going to be strong enough to carry her all the way through, but I hope I'm wrong because I do think she's really great in it.

20:03You can definitely imagine someone seeing Possible Love or Misty Green on their screener pile and going for Misty Green because it's shorter. It's in English. It has funny moments. Rosalind Ellsworth is later on my list. I won't go too deep. Jacqueline, is she going to show up later on your results? Yes, definitely. All right, so we'll save it and move along. So in my number nine spot, I feel like a lot of these I could have put them in ninth place or fourth place. And it's a coin flip. So this is where I put Sandra Huller. And I guess it's for Rose. This is a fascinating situation for someone who's been in a bunch of movies.

20:32Personally, I think maybe her best shot at a nomination might be Project Hail Mary in Supporting Actress. We'll get to that eventually. I've seen Fatherland. That movie is quiet and really restrained, even by the standards of Paul Polakowski, the director who's been nominated in Best Director twice. or at least his movies have done well with the Oscars. I remember Cold War was the lone director. So maybe it was. And then Ida also, I feel like maybe it got anyway. He's done well. He's on their radar. And I haven't seen Rose yet. So this is really a flyer I'm taking here, but she won best actress at Berlin.

21:03And she feels kind of like Zendaya. Like, how are we going to let her get out of this year without a nomination? So it does feel like movie is really going hard for Rose. Again, I haven't seen it yet, so I don't know how that bears out, But I think she's really competitive for that. Have either of you guys seen Rose? Yes. OK, Jacqueline, tell me if I'm if I'm on a limb here. Absolutely. And this is that performance that they love to reward. First of all, it's got that black and white grittiness. It's just like it just screams. Yeah, give me a nomination. And not because she's doing anything less in it other than being Sandra Hewler, who, again, I feel even in Digger where she barely has anything to do.

21:40If they were like, yeah, we're going to nominate that. I'd be like, yeah, you should. You know what I mean? It would have been so easy if she was in Digger more and people liked it. It'd be like, there, there's her nomination. We figured it out. But even if they didn't, I'm just saying, like, she's just so believable that I'm like, not going to be mad at it. Like, it's like when they nominate, you know, Meryl Streep for like Ricky and the Flash or something. Be like, yeah, but she's Meryl Streep. Just let her do it. Let her cook. Let her cook. Yeah, no, she's brilliant in it. And I do agree with you, though, that Project Hail Mary is probably her better shot.

22:07I hate to say that. I know that people think I'm strange considering everybody in The Odyssey is a sporting actress. but I feel how I feel. I mean, God, we'll get into the Anne Hathaway of it all. It's supporting actresses. So interesting. Chris, you haven't seen Rose yet either. No, but I have her coming up on my list too. And I agree with this stipulation that I think it is the one over Fatherland, but who knows, I guess. Okay. This is us just guessing. And also on my list, I might add. Also on my list. Yeah, great. Well, excellent. So let's go to you then, Jacqueline, with your number eight.

22:33Okay. So my number eight pick, again, you can call this one a homework call. I have two homework calls on my list. You could be mad about it, but I like that this audience. We support who we want to support right now. Olivia Colman in Wicker. And this is a flyer. I have not seen Wicker. I'm actually seeing it on Friday. I have read the seven page short story that it's based off of. And I don't care. I have never rooted for a movie more. I am such a big fan of the romanticcy genre. I feel like it is one of the most underserved parts of Hollywood because it speaks directly to women and their desires.

23:06And and they all try to hallmark the hallmarkification of romantic genre. But, yeah, I want to see her and Alexander Skarsgård go through it. But I do think there's emotional resonance to it because it really talks about a woman of a certain age trying to find her happiness in an unconventional place, which I think is a very unifying thing. So I don't think I had any idea this was based on something or that it was even romantic. Like I knew he he's Wicker and he turns into a man. Yes. I mean, that's as far as I got. Okay, so I'm going to let people a little bit into my reading habits right now.

23:39Please do not judge me, people. I'm Prestige Junkie. But that is a huge part of the romanticcy genre, which is that these men are, for better terms or whatever, monsters, either because they are part dragon or because they are made out of clay or wood, or maybe they're an alien or a cyborg. And there's an entire like tomes that could fill libraries of women falling in love with various orcs and like everything else. And it all speaks to this idea of somehow that's less scary than the idea of a contemporary romance with a real man where all of the things that may come into that play. It's basically you're you're literally dating a fantasy and you're making it as most as fantastical as you possibly can.

24:21I love the idea of romanticity having an Oscar breakthrough moment. And I can't wait to see Wicker. Chris, have you seen Wicker? I'm sorry, Chris. I feel like I keep putting you on this. I'm just getting, I'm just striking out left and right. I know. But I have the net coming up on most of these asses. No, nobody's seen it. Like, I'm literally, like, again, this is a straight Homer call advocating for Olivia. We love Olivia. And we would love. But I'm sorry. I want this to be, I want this to win 20 Oscars. Let's see if we can make it happen. Chris, your eighth spot then. I'm going another. I'm going to go a left field one here for as well.

24:52I have Mason Reeves for Josephine, which I don't think would ever happen because she's obviously a child actor. But, and I don't even particularly, I think the movie's good, but anything I think about the movie is really good because it's such an incredible, like undeniable child performance. I think it's incredibly complicated. I know you talked to the director, Beth D 'Aulio at the TIFF, right? Didn't we have Katie? The whole cast, yeah, Mason Reeves was there. The whole cast, and Mason Reeves was there and she was very sweet. Incredibly charming, yeah. And I just was like, I think it's an incredible performance.

25:20I just think like the whole movie rests on her shoulders and the fact that it's she's able to pull it off with so well. It's just it's a really, really great. So I don't know that she would ever get nominated. Hopefully a Critics Choice Award like Young Actor win or something. Right. Like category there. Very nice. Really great. She's stuck with me the whole year, even like since I saw that at Sundance. So that's my number eight. She's amazing in that movie. I mean, we're talking about Gentle Monster is a tough watch. Josephine is absolutely a tough watch also. But I do think if people watch it, they kind of won't be able to ignore that performance in some way.

25:52All right. I'm going to speed us up so we don't run out of time because, again, we like to take detours. And I'll go quick on mine. This is where I have Jean-Doyan for Possible Love. It's kind of the same things all that we talked about before. She is really tremendous in this. I think people who are more familiar with Seth Green Cinema have probably seen her before. And that's not an insignificant part of the Oscar voting body at this point. But hopefully the fact that they're about to go talk to Jacqueline in L.A. means that they're in L.A. and they're meeting people and getting on the circuit.

26:20And that is huge for for breakout stars like that. So moving on for me, Jacqueline, your seventh place pick. I'm an ex-Homer call. This is Zendaya and the drama. We've talked about this. I just again, imagine having the gumption to do this as America's sweetheart to play a would be suspected school shooting. It speaks to thought crimes and the almost like prosecutorial nature of our of our discourses now. And she just had like kind of a pitch perfect performance. People will argue about whether or not it felt culture is so specific for her as a biracial black woman. But girl, it was it was so awesome.

26:58I don't know what else to say. And like every single one of her features this year has been certified fresh high audience appeal. And I just doing that this movie and Spider-Man in the same year, like, girl, that's enough. And speaking about performances, not to take away from Zendaya, but the girl who plays the younger version of her who is in way more of the movie than you would think, like their performances together bouncing off each other are fascinating. Absolutely. And again, like it's it's such a an interesting thing. I really, that filmmaker, I find him to be great because he did the dream scenario movie with Nicolas Cage.

27:32I know he kind of had some press that wasn't great. But in general, like, it's an interesting mind and movies that you would want to talk about later. And we know that it kicked off discourse. The discourse around that movie was long. Yeah. And at times. That happens when you have a hit. Insufferable. That's why it's insufferable. Don't worry. The discourse has barely been begun to get insufferable about some of these. We're going to be losing our minds for months. Chris, your number seven pick. Mine is Jeon Doyeon from Possible Love. I agree with everything we've said. I think she's going to keep moving up.

28:03I do think that people really respond to that performance and she could get in at the end here. Now I feel bad that I didn't have her hire. I feel bad now that I didn't have Zendaya hire. I was like, yes! Let's get Zendaya off the nominees. We're the girls in the corner being like, you're fabulous. I know you're fabulous. Well, again, us saying this is the week's Best Actors year we haven't even gotten into our predicted actual five and we're so excited about these performances so it's proof that you should take a little more um i guess my we're number seven um my number seven pick is my homer and i can't tell how much of this is just wish casting for me but i put virginia fira for all of a sudden which i absolutely love it is a challenging three and a half hour movie that's in french and japanese and she and tau okamoto won the best actress prize together and can um i imagine they're going to put virginia fira in lead and tau okamoto in supporting because it really it's really a two-hander but the first hour is pretty much entirely about virginia fira this woman running this uh nursing home in france it is so empathetic and thoughtful and emotional even though it's also about like capitalism and the care economy and you know i didn't know that much about virginia fira before but she was like a comedian in france she's from belgium she was kind of known as like the busty blonde who was in silly movies and for her to pull off this career transformation and have this incredible lived-in central performance in a movie that's so moving.

29:26You know, Rai Tsukuhamaguchi, the director, he got into best picture with Drive My Car. The acting in his movies hasn't gotten awards attention. So it might be a long road to climb. But I think she's terrific. I interviewed her in TIFF. I think she's really fun to talk to. She could do a lot of that campaigning. And so I have my hopes high for it. Chris, I know you haven't seen all of a sudden. Jacqueline, do you have thoughts on it? I haven't seen it. And I'm like, I can feel the people. I think Divergent may have that one. And like they know that I'm trying to see it so I'm gonna see it really soon I feel sad that I haven't caught it yet it was gonna be a time of year where people specifically are like I know you haven't seen this because stop ignoring my emails and they're getting mad and they get so mad because they don't want you to watch it on the screen or they want you to watch it in the theater before and don't watch this on the screen like I realize how obnoxious it is but I saw it in a theater and was just so lucky to do it so yes so I'm like also like I didn't realize this podcast is good I'm going to get calls from publicists.

30:17I just don't have seen that. Yeah, no. Well, our primary audience is publicists. Not primarily. They all know. We love them all. But they are listening, and I just realized I'm like, ah, dang it. And we love them, and we appreciate them always. Yeah. Okay, Jacqueline, what is your number six spot? So now we're at the last spot outside of our predicted five. So this is the last spot out of my predicted five, and this is where I'm going to go ahead and put Misty Green. I don't think that it's not that it's not possible for her. In fact, I would be very happy to see that I'm proven wrong. I just think there are more compelling names that are above her.

30:48And the fact that theater people know who she is. She's done a ton of West End stuff, but not Broadway stuff. And so I do think this will be a moment for her, but I don't know if it'll be the moment to break through at six. Although she would be the first person for me to love to see it because Misty Green is fine. She's amazing. She's absolutely amazing. Well, I don't watch Low Horses much, but I assume everyone else does because it keeps getting nominated for a billion Emmys. so people must know from that right but she doesn't even look like the way she does in this in Slow Horses I watched Slow Horses and I didn't realize until afterwards it was the same actor in a like Nicholas Gallat scene in that sheep movie type way I'm like that's He-Man oh I never recommend him I can't he is completely invisible to me don't you feel that as a slow host just watching she's so different in that yeah she is yeah that's great I did not expect Nicholas Gallat to come up in this episode it's great all right Chris who is in your sixth slot I have similarly like Virginia Virginia Feria for all of a sudden.

31:47I also think that is a very possible nomination and I loved your interview with her and I can't wait to see the movie in a movie theater and I apologize to everyone that I haven't watched it yet. Look guys, we are only human and can only do so much. My Sixth Lot is where I put Lea Seydoux for all the things I was saying about how I think Netflix is really bullish on it. I think she can get out there and I mean Best Actress History is full of movies where people walk out saying the movie's fine, she's great. So Missy Green in a really similar situation. I think Gentle Monster is better than Missy Green and probably better than some of these other historical movies I'm coming up with.

32:21But even if it's not your favorite, again, people love Lacey Du. I think she can do it. Jacqueline, let's hear your fifth. Okay, so for my fifth slot, this is actually where I have Fjord and, oh my God. Renata Rinesworth. Yes, Renata. But yeah, no, for Fjord, it's a hard one. again, like I feel like a lot of the movies were saying this one, but this one in particular, it makes you ask questions about where you fall on this. The director of that does an incredible job of, I think, putting audiences right in the middle of their moral quandaries and then just being like, now sit with it. And she very much plays.

32:59I mean, she's literally like the tradiest wife to trad wife in this movie. Do you know what I mean? But she does it so well. And I think having the girl that did Worst Person in the World do this, is just like such, again, just shows her range. So love the choice. I didn't put her on my list, which I know is kind of crazy for someone who was nominated for Best Actress just last year. I cannot figure out where Fjord's going to land. I know it won the Palm, but we've been talking about all these other international features that have really grabbed people's attention. And Fjord feels kind of hovering in the middle of the pack right now for me.

33:28And I'm not sure if that's going to change or when. I don't know either, Chris. I don't know either. I'm putting it down because I also feel, I hate to say this, they like her a lot. Of course. They just like her on the team. She was in Back Rooms. It was a huge hit. Yeah. Yeah. I left her off my list too, but only because I wanted to get Mason Reeves on there, I guess. But it was like I had her in that like second tier for me. And then I was like, I really like want to try to remember Mason Reeves. So I was like, let me put her on there instead. Again, we are still recording in September. It is the time for advocacy.

33:59I'm here for it. So Chris, in that spirit, who's in your fifth spot? Well, then maybe this is also advocacy, but I have Ruth Madley for Being Human, which I absolutely loved. I thought it was like really good, much better than I think it has maybe any right to be because it's just like the story is so straightforward. And like I know people don't love Coda, but I thought it was just great. I thought she's really great. I think it could be a tough nomination only because I do think it's such a strong ensemble movie, even though she's obviously the lead character and the title character of the movie.

34:29You are you walk away from that movie impressed with so many of the other actors who at least I have not seen before. or previously so many actors with disabilities that get an opportunity in this movie to really shine. But I thought she's just great. And I could really see a, I could in my head come up with like a narrative of her getting a nomination here for this movie. But yeah, so again, advocacy may be early here in this season, but I have Ruth Madley at five. She was just outside in my top 10 for all of the same reasons. And I just can't figure out where that movie is headed also. I haven't seen that one yet.

34:59And so that's why I didn't include it, but I'm going to see it soon. Yeah, it's a, I mean, it's such a good, one to show anybody like anyone who's going to sit down with it I think is going to come out really impressed with her so again wide open field you just want to wait for something to pop and figure out how it's going to go um I went full advocacy for my fifth slot and I wonder how crazy you guys think I am because I put in Marian Bailey for tender loving care which is a movie I love it is Mike Lee's final film Mike Lee has been like traveling the world with this movie despite mobility issues and Marian Bailey is his longtime partner um and she is the she's been selected as the lead of this film.

35:33It's really a three-hander with Alice Bailey Johnson, who is her daughter, which I didn't know until walking out of like weeks after walking out of the movie, I think. Not Michael's daughter, but hers. And then Kato Flynn, of course, now popping for Widow's Bay. She'll be in supporting. We'll get to that. But I just I think tender, loving care is wonderful. I think anyone who sees it will be kind of swept up with it in the same way. And if it's a wide open field, why not? That's why I put her in here. Am I crazy? No, I just I don't think you're crazy. it's just Mike Lee's films have never done well in the acting categories.

36:06At least not since like what, 1996. It's been a while. Yeah. Recently. I know. I know. Happy go lucky. We were just talking about Sally Hawkins. Yeah, obviously. Yes. Oh no. Secrets and lies still. And I mean, and they did, they didn't get hard truths, right? Either. Oh God, no. I'm going to hold that grudge for the rest of my life. But part of me wonders if, and you never know how real this is. It's like, do people remember how badly they messed up? Not nominating Mary and Jean-Baptiste. to make up for it this year. They'll remember it that it did happen. People remember the nomination. They'll misremember it.

36:36Yeah, yeah. Because it was part of the season until it wasn't. I don't know who. What's her name from Crazy Horse knocked out the year that they did that campaign. Oh, it was Maggie Gyllenhaal from Crazy Horse. I forget who. Yeah, yeah. I forget who it was, but people will think that person was also nominated. It's probably someone we just assume was nominated and we don't remember. Okay, Jacqueline, who do you have at number four? Four, let me go back to my list. for number four. This is actually where I have Indy Navarette for Obsession. She is the Obsession. I've done a couple Q &As with her now.

37:09I don't think people realize the star power she is generating in a like almost heated rivalry type of way when it comes to these Oscar voters. They all want to talk to her. They all like, especially these actors, they can't believe she was as undiscovered as she is being able to do what she did. And so, yeah. She's so young. She has really a tie to be discovered. And it's not like a Maggie Madsen where people could be like, oh, well, she was on, I guess, Better Things with Pam. And, you know, she had some. No, I mean, like this really just like what we used to see when someone like Brad Pitt shows up in Thelma and Louise.

37:42Like this is crazy, but it's a lead performance of that level. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that Amy Madigan weapons is a reasonable comp or does it feel like a totally different thing happening here? No, I don't know if that's the right comp for it. And truth be known, obviously she lost, but it feels almost like Demi Moore in The Substance. Sure, sure. Like watching the woman suffer. But she's like Demi Moore in The Substance, bringing enough sex appeal and weirdness to it to make it good. And a movie that people just get obsessed with. Like, I mean, Obsession is a huge hit beyond what The Substance was, but that movie was so powerful because people are just like, you have to see this.

38:22And so much of the you have to see a power of obsession, which I think is a pretty good movie, is Annie Navarrete. Exactly. She's coming up later on my list. Same. Yeah. Okay. But Chris, do you have her next or do you have someone else? I have someone else next. I have Sandra Huller for Rose next. I went with this one as my Sandra Huller pick. I think she'll get nominated for Project Hail Mary, too, because I just think the more you sit with that performance, she's really great in it. And obviously, I think the movie is going to be a strong contender. But I do think this is her best actress play.

38:49And like you were saying before, like, it feels like it's the one for Mubi above. Like, at Telluride, it was like that was the tribute was for Rose. Not that that means anything, but it was like for Rose, not for Father Ellen, even though they were both at Telluride. And it was like at New York Film Festival, she's there with Rose and like doing intros for it. So I just feel like that's the one. And Jacqueline, like you were saying, it's like this transformative thing, like black and white. Like, it just seems like the Meryl Streep-y type thing that people would get behind. So I have her four for that one.

39:15Yeah. Four is where I have Rosalind Elisar. a lot of the same things that we've been talking about. And again, a real coin flip where she could be in fourth place, she could be in eighth place, and we have no real way of knowing. But I do think she does have a lot of people who don't know that they know her from Slow Horses, but do. And, you know, I'm interested to see how Chris Rock is as campaigning on her behalf. Like, even if the movie is not hitting as well with people, I would hope that he would kind of help bring in eyeballs and get people to pay attention to her. And that could be powerful because he obviously knows absolutely everybody.

39:45So I'm hopeful that it works for her. I also think with the movie, like, I feel like if it's going to play well anywhere, it will play well in L.A. with Oscar voter. It just feels like that is like it's made to play well. And it hasn't had a big L.A. like it went from Tiff to New York. Like, it's weird that it hasn't had an L.A. moment yet, but I assume it's coming. And I think that that'll really help, too, in terms of like like obviously critics were lukewarm on it, certainly at Tiff and like New York Film Festival. Lukewarm and it, but very strong on her. Yeah, everybody loves her, but I'm saying in terms of the movie, right?

40:15You know what I mean? And like, I think it's a good bet. Like, yeah. Yeah. You know what other movie people were lukewarm on? Judy, which won Renee Zellweger her second Oscar. So. I love the Judy for comparison. I love that one. I bring it up all the time. I think about that movie all the time. I mean, another example. Jessica Chastain for. Oh, sure. Absolutely. You could definitely say she was more due. But Renee already had a supporting for. I know. It's like you couldn't say that with her. So that was a wild year. Jacqueline, who do you have in third place? So in third place, this is actually where I have Olivia Wilde for the invite.

40:51Just I feel like that's the comeback story of the year. In retrospect, looking at how things went for her with Don't Worry Darling, it's just we did too much on that one. You know what I mean? Like everybody did. We were all in our houses and insane. Like that was a full COVID mania moment, I think. And I think in retrospect, we were all being like, yeah, probably not that. And she's a very gifted and talented filmmaker. And I think this film shows that the fact that she got drafted into it and made a really compelling, actorly performance driven, hilarious feature from that, like, bulletproof script.

41:24I think her, the screenplay and a lot of the other categories are very possible. I think it is super interesting that she might get a Best Actress nomination as a consolation for not getting a Best Director nomination. It's not really the kind of movie that breaks through Best Director anymore, but I think it's very likely to get him for Best Picture. and I think the directing is more impressive than the acting in it, but I really like the invite a lot and I'm not sure anyone's ever done that before, has been nominated for directing themselves in a movie that's a Best Picture nominee. I mean, I'm not going to lie to you.

41:51The comeback story right now is pretty miraculous. That would be like Jesus walking on water if she was able to pull a Best Director nomination after Don't Worry Darling with just one other movie. Hopefully everyone is not expecting that, but Best Actress feels, she's coming up later for me. Chris, you're number three. My number three is Olivia Wilde also. I thought she was great. I do think that's like everything Jacqueline said I'd co-sign. And so like we could just move on. I'm like, I mean, I think it's great. I think she could get a Best Director nomination too. I think I could see her, but it's such a weird branch.

42:23Who knows? But like definitely Best Actress, good. We're going to talk about who's weirder Best Director of the Music Branch one of these days. That's a whole separate sidebar. Number three is where I put Indy Navarrete, who has met over the course of the summer from, wouldn't it be interesting if that happened, to I guess she's in like her seeing her and curry barker going around tiff doing their um you know the session screening they were at the focus party I think there's a picture of her with Andrew Scott like they went around and met everybody they worked the rooms and I think exactly what you're saying Jacqueline that people can't they want to get close to her she they are in awe of her and it's kind of the excitement we talked about around Cato Flynn and Widows Bay of someone who is brand new and you can't really get over what they were capable of um it's pretty incredible for someone to go from basically unknown to this for a movie that, you know, it played at Toronto a year ago, but nobody knew it was going to be like this until June or something when it became so huge.

43:14It's very exciting. Jacqueline, your second place. So my second place is where I actually have Sandra Hewler for The Rose, because I believe that she, like, I really do feel like that international side of that branch, it's very possible, especially if she ends up having, like, like a good Golden Globes run, and then she could maybe, like, speak to some inevitability. I know it's a hard road, and it's a film that hasn't gotten seen, but she's feeling like this Meryl Streep level of, like, Jesus. Like, this woman just did Anatomy of the Fall, and she's just coming back with banger after banger after banger.

43:50So you think she's going to be a double nominee then? I would say that I think she will probably be for Project Hail Mary and Supporting, and then this for lead actress, but I don't think Fatherland gets in there at all. Yeah. Even though she technically could now have Fatherland and Rose. Placing a bet on who is going to be a double Oscar nominee. It's like it's some crazy math. You start doing Nick and Melby. Cruz gets involved. Robert Pattinson gets involved. It's wild. Chris, who's your second place? I have a guess. Indy Navarant for me in second place. I thought the Demi Moore comparison is really great.

44:24And Demi Moore was so close to winning, but it would be funny if this year, or funny, whatever. But like if like Julia Moore wins and then like Indy Navarrete is like the Mikey Madison who loses or whatever. Right. Like that kind of thing. But yeah, I think like the movie is obviously sensation. And she's so like I've said this before, but like she's so far and away the best part of the movie and no disrespect to any other actors. So I think we're all good. So much better than all the other actors in the movie. Like she is. It's like an elite performance for so many reasons. But I think that's cause of it.

44:51And I like I think the response to her is so is just evident that like people are really responding to her in these rooms. and in the industry. And yeah, so I have her at second place. And if she won, I honestly wouldn't be surprised at this point, but I'm still not going to go there. But I think she's a strong contender. It is incredible to watch a movie that's made, you know, on a low budget with relatively non-professional actors and then see someone who's operating on that level. It does highlight her strength so much. All credit to Andy Richter. He is a professional actor and is also in that movie, but not a big part of it.

45:20In second place, I have Olivia Wilde. For the placement, I kind of just thought about the strength of the movie. I think the invite is stronger as a best picture contender than most of the other titles we've been talking about here. And I think that boosts her. I mean, who is in second place is kind of a you never really know. But it wouldn't surprise me if she was in second place with the vote totals kind of competing in there with any Navarrete. So now we're at Julianne Moore, which I knew that we would all have in our number one spot on this list. Jacqueline, I'll leave it to you. I was like weird.

45:50It was like Zendaya is taking it. I mean, look, she's had a great year. There's an argument for it. I don't think this is boring. Next time I come in here, I'm going to just do that to mess with you. I'm kidding. We have a take purge coming up at some point where we're going to come in and say the absolute most unhinged ideas we have. So save it. Save it for the purge. But no, I'll go to you, Jacqueline, where sometimes it feels boring when we're in September and we think a race is locked up. I don't think it's boring because of all this uncertainty about nominations. but like is anyone do we want to try to argue for why julianne moore isn't going to take it or does us feel absolutely done to you did we argue against jesse i didn't i saw her tiff and i said y 'all need to go home i'm not arguing against lidwick listen i don't know maybe i'm wrong indy definitely has a shot like if that movie ends up feeling inevitable as more people start voting for her and she just continues to be this ingenue we love i could see that happening julianne's already got some hardware at home.

46:44But no. Did you see the debut at the TIFF premiere? No, I did not. Yeah. And no, I saw it later. But I will say, yeah, she's also just somebody that everybody loves. And I she hasn't even really gotten out on the campaign trail. But who doesn't want to watch Julianne Moore talk about? Yeah. When I was in Paul Thomas Anderson's movie Boogie Nights and just just go be Julia Moore for three months and then move the space on your shelf for next to where the other one is, you know? Well, I was asking about the TIFF premiere because, you know, Chris and I were there and that as just like one of the best movie going experiences I've had in several years.

47:21And I assume that that big scene and the movie isn't all overall will have that effect on people everywhere. Like she is going to be at all these regional festivals. She's getting an award at SCAD, I think. So it's just going to play and play and play. And it's not like you walk into it being like, all right, Julianne Moore, let's see what you can do. But she kind of exceeds her expectations somehow, which I did not know was possible at this point in her career. It's really amazing. It also is just like, Jacqueline, to your point there, like everyone loves like there's no begrudging her a second Oscar here.

47:50Like, I feel like when we've had these before, like you were talking about Renee Zellweger for Judy, like there was at least some like outward, maybe not outward, but like pushback on the like what like the movie's not any good or whatever. Even like Frances McDormand, when she was winning a third Oscar for No Man land. It's like, oh, my God, we're doing this again, like that kind of thing. And I don't feel like there's any of that with Julianne Moore. She is just like the like people absolutely love her. She's fantastic in the movie. And like there's no I like like again, like not to just wrap up this best actress in September, but like kind of like good luck.

48:21I hope all these other people get nominated and then like Julianne Moore will just win, which is great. So, yeah, I mean, a third Oscar is something where people can start really raising their eyebrows. But a second Oscar for Julie. If Emma Stone, her daughter from Crazy Stupid Love can have two Best Actress Oscars, then Julianne Moore should also have two Best Actress. I guess I just spoiled Crazy Stupid Love, huh? I think the Statue of Lamentations is a good one. It's a good girl. Yeah. Jacqueline, I know you've got to go. So we will wrap this up. And thank you so much for going nuts, getting some Oscar nerd energy out.

48:51That's what we love to do this time of year. And for those of you listening, stick around. I'll be back in a moment with my conversation with someone we've been talking about a lot in this episode, Rosalind Eliezer, the titular star of Misty Green. We talked about how hard she fought to get this role, including a long audition process that is kind of reflected in the film itself. It's a movie about Hollywood, about an actress who had a big opportunity, won an Emmy in the mid-2000s, and then partly through her own faults and bad decisions has gotten to a position of struggle. It's a movie about class in Los Angeles, about how in Hollywood you can be up one minute and down the next.

49:27Rosalind Elazar is a rising star. She got her start in London theater. She's been on slow horses for a while, as you heard us discuss. But she also related a lot to the struggles and the kind of harsh realities of this industry that you see in the film. It's a really great conversation. I'll be back in a moment to hear much more from Rosalind Elazar.

49:48So obviously a character like Misty Green is going to come to you at any point in your life and you're going to say, oh my God, I have to play this person. But the way that it's so specifically about someone who has had a career behind her, who has seen the ups and downs of an industry. I wondered if if you feel like it's something you could have played earlier in career. Do you have to have had a career to be able to tap into the place that this character is when we meet her and when the movie begins? Yeah, I think you do. I think you have to have experience of, you know, the rejections and how the industry works as a business and understanding that it is a business.

50:25It's not just a creative endeavor. So I think it is useful to have, you know, a few years under your belt. I don't think I could have necessarily done this when I first started. But also it's not just about being in the industry. I think just also a woman experiencing what you experience over a course of your life and when you're approaching a certain age and how how you're perceived. I also think that is something that you need to have some years behind you. But it would have been actually interesting to see where we would have found Misty 10 years ago. Like, you know, what would have been the difference of her then?

51:07Yeah. Well, that's such an acting exercise, right? Like if you were in drama school, you would have like probably done a day of being like, who was Misty when she was 15? Like, do you think about that even though you're not playing it on the screen? Like, is that part of your thought process of the character? Oh, definitely. I go back as far back as I can. And I think particularly with Misty, someone that has so, so many layers of protection around her, so much armor, you kind of have to figure out what each of those barriers are and why. And so you have to start from her childhood and what are all the things in her life that have created such an abrasive sort of attitude towards things.

51:50Because I think with someone like Misty, it's easy to cast them off as someone that's just problematic. She is problematic. She's certainly that. But there are reasons why she goes out into the world punching, physically and metaphorically. And so for me, it was just, it was a challenge and it was part of the reason why I wanted to do it was unpacking who this person is and what has brought her to this stage where she's just got so much armor, you know, around her. How much time did you spend thinking about her show, the one that she won the Emmy for? We get this like perfect detail as it was on after Scandal where it's like, OK, I know when I am.

52:37I know where like I can picture it really well. But I wonder if you or Chris and Chris Rocker, anybody else kind of talked about like, what was that show? Who was her character? What what was it? Yeah, I think we did speak about it a little bit like Red Eye and, you know, the sort of name Red Eye. And I don't know. Is she a pilot? Like, is that the? No, she's an air. She'd be a terrible pilot, wouldn't she? I wouldn't get on that plane. No, she was an air stewardess. I see. And it was, you know, I think it had an air of sort of desperate housewives. That's what it would have been like. So, you know, a bit of fun, but with some meat there as well.

53:19Yeah. Uh, but yeah, yeah, we did, we did spend a bit of time thinking about what is, what, what are the sort of roles that she, she would have, she would have got in her time and what, and what has sort of annoyed her from the roles that she hasn't got over this period and what she thinks that maybe she's more capable of, but hasn't been given the opportunity to show and that sort of thing. I feel like I would have watched Red Eye. It sounds, I know. We actually have, we have a Red Eye in the UK. We have a, uh, a show called The Red Eye. so when Chris I was like you know that's already a show he's like that's all right that happens all the time titles can be recycled um I love the thing you said earlier about learning of the business as a business and not just a place of making art but it's commerce as well and I'm curious about what that experience was like for you you know coming from drama school I think starting an acting career in the UK I think is different from LA you can tell me if I'm wrong here but what was that learning experience like for you of understanding the business aspect of it and how to balance art with it.

54:19Yeah, I mean, I think when you leave drama school, you're sort of so naive in a way and you think that everything that you're doing is for art and you have these hopes and dreams. And, you know, I still do, but I think you learn quickly that there's money involved and it can be really beautiful, our industry, and it can have a real dark side to it. You know, both things do exist because I don't want to like sort of just crap all over our industry because it does sing when - Well, that's what Misty Green's about, right? Is that it can be horrible and it can be wonderful. Exactly. I mean, that's one of the things what I love about what Chris wrote is that she is as much to blame for her path.

55:11She doesn't hold herself accountable. And that's part of what the journey is for her, is getting out of her own way. And she's her biggest obstacle, more so than the industry. And I think that's one thing that the industry has sort of taught me is that the one thing that you can change is your attitude towards it. You know what I mean? That's the only thing that's sort of in my control is what I say yes to, what I say no to and how I respond to certain things, whether that's not getting apart or being frustrated about something. The only thing that I have in my control is my attitude towards it and how I digest it.

55:58And and and and for Misty, that is something that she, bless her, really struggles with. She doesn't quite know how to deal with the industry. So she so she acts out and she's railing against it. You know, it sounds like that you don't have quite the same personality of someone like Misty who would come in punching like that. But I wonder about the learning process of learning that the one thing you can control. I mean, it's it's a human thing. We all have to learn it over time. But is it do you have like enough failed auditions to say like, OK, this isn't on me or like what? How do you come across that lesson?

56:32And have you did you have to have someone kind of said pull you aside and be like, no, this is this is the only way you're going to get through this. I know I don't know that anyone's ever I think it's just something that I've learned that any time that you know you don't get something or you think or you're frustrated that it didn't go any further you you sort of have to understand that there's many moving parts uh to to a to a to any given show and you just you I I take it less personally now I just take it less personally And I think another thing that is interesting about our industry as actors is as an actor, you have to keep yourself sensitive and empathetic.

57:16You know, that's our job. And yet you can very easily start building up a lot of walls. um so you to try and separate those two things so that when you do get on set you're still available and you're still able to be present and you haven't built up all these walls around you because the industry can be brutal you know I think that's the biggest thing that I'm still figuring it out for sure you know and I think it probably would be a lifelong process but But I definitely felt a difference of, you know, when I first started to now, it affects me left. I have certain rituals that I do that once I've done a tape, I'll chuck those sides in the bin and I, the trash.

58:04I can figure that part out. There's some slang I can't get. That one I know. And I go, right, that's it. I'm not thinking about that again. You know, and that helps me just to mark that's done now. that I found out incredibly hard for Misty, though. That one, I couldn't quite rip up that that that script and go, right, I'll just see what happens. I was like, oh, my God. I was going to ask about that. You get that piece of being it's not about me. Things are going to be bigger than you. But then you get a script like this and this character who obviously you know that you really want to play. Like, what is that balance of protecting yourself and knowing it can go a lot of different directions and giving yourself over to it the way that you were describing?

58:44That one, I didn't protect myself at all. I, God, that was one of the hardest and most grueling processes I've ever been through because of the time it took and how many. I had like two Zooms and then I flew out to L.A. for a chemistry read with Chris. And then I did like loads of self-tapes in between because I wasn't happy with my Zooms. And I would just every single day and because we were on UK, I was on UK time, you know, I could be up until like 1 or 2 a.m. to see if the phone would ring. and I've got the part. So my day was so long, you know, I'd be like, because I, I, I fell in love with her.

59:32I fell in love with the script and there was something that I just so wanted to express with her. And, um, she was so contradictory and, and, and, and flawed. And I, I love being able to play women. And as you said, these parts don't come around a lot. Yeah. And it was just, I mean, there was, there was a point that I was just at my mom's house and I was just so upset because I was like, it's not going to happen. And I was just sort of so lame, but I was sort of semi meditating, trying to talk to Chris Rock across the pond, going why I think I'm right for the part, you know. And at some points, I generally thought I had made contact.

1:00:21As if I'm an alien. And when I got set, I said, Chris, did you at any point, you know, feel me talking to you? And he was like, no. I was like, okay, well, I was trying to control my nervousness. But maybe he doesn't know. Like, he just had the moment of saying you were right, and he doesn't know that was you talking to him. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. It all could have been there. I mean, I don't love that you had all these self-tapes in the process because it sounds so stressful. But this movie is so much about auditions and sitting in an audition room and these incredible images of you in a room with all these women who look variations on the same person.

1:00:56But I know that's not how it works that much anymore. Like there's that that's kind of the old school way of doing auditions. But it's like when you're trying to tap into that sense that Missy has in these auditions where it's like going really badly and then it's going well all of a sudden. Like, is that evidence that we need to get back to that of these in-person auditions? It just seems so powerful compared to the self-tapes that you're talking about. I completely agree. I don't think there's any substitute for being in the room. You can feel someone's energy. You can be fully alive in your whole body.

1:01:26You know, you're not cut from a certain and you can sense a person. And when you're reading with someone live, it's just it just has its own energy to it. And I mean, obviously, like after you get further down the line in Zooms, usually you will have a. an in-person meet but it's I I I definitely wish we could go back to that I I think it's I think it's so useful um and you spend like you know half a nap 20 to 30 minutes in there and it's on on a in a self-tape you could be depending on who you are you could be spending two hours on a tape and you're asking someone else to come and give up their time and film with you you have to to make sure the lighting's correct.

1:02:11There are so many things that, let's say, an actor doesn't necessarily have to think about once they're on set. You know, where's the light coming from and all of that's another department. But that's, and I also knew that there'd be a lot of people in LA that were meeting in person. And I was, I just really wanted to make sure that I was also there if I had the opportunity, you know. um what was your relationship like with LA before going into this again like you start your career in the UK it does to me it seems like a much more sensible place to try to build a career um but had you done work in the states but like what was that relationship before you go and make this very very LA movie yeah I mean I'd spent a bit of time out there you know but more for you know um publicity tours of a particular project but I hadn't I hadn't spent any length of time in LA.

1:03:04So I was very keen to come out before filming. And so I spent like, I think I came out about five, six weeks before I started filming. Yeah, just to just be around people in LA and sort of immerse myself as much as I could and basically trying to do as much of what I felt Misty did and had not everything day to day. Didn't go full method on that. but, you know, live, live as much of a lifestyle that I, that I could and, and, and obviously stay in the accent because, you know, that was obviously important. But yeah, so it was, a lot of it was, was, was very new to me in a way. And, you know, there are so many, as with every city, there are so many different versions of a city, you know, and there's very different versions of a people.

1:04:04And so, you know, what I was sort of modeling Misty on is a subcategory of a subcategory of a subcategory. You know, not everyone is like a Misty character. So it was fun, like picking and drawing and, you know, your imagination is alive when you're in the place that you're filming. And I just went to all the spots, like the Roosevelt, and I was learning my lines at the Roosevelt. And then I went to like Cedar Sinai. I think that's how you say it. Yeah, the hospital. Yeah, yeah. And I was just doing my lines and people were like, what are you doing? They've seen way worse. You're talking about Misty as being this very specific thing, but I imagine you're going to, if you go to a net club or you go to the Roosevelt, like you'll see a version of Misty.

1:04:50Like if you spend any time in LA, I think there's versions of her everywhere. So how, like, what is that like for you? Kind of seeing her alive, walking around? Yeah, I mean, it was great. I also went to the Equinox lot and there was one particular day that I was at the gym and this woman came in and she was fabulous. We were doing a workout class and she came in with heels and sunglasses and I was like, I am taking that. and it was i i also love what one of the things that i do love about la is that you have characters and people are them like allowed to be their full selves there's not like a median you know which you can sometimes get in in in other you know places um and but But yeah, there were plenty of Misty characters around L.A.

1:05:53And I sort of have a lot of respect for people that are just like, this is me. Yeah. You know, I wish I could have more of that. You know, it's... Spend more time in L.A., you never know. Yeah. What might happen to you. I mean, I also, I think you spend any amount of time at the Roosevelt or any of that part of Hollywood. and, you know, Missy doesn't live in Hollywood, but so much of the film takes place there. And that contrast between having and not having that the film is so much about is just so right there on the surface in front of you. And like, I don't know if that's something you and Chris Rock had to talk about or if it was just kind of evident from what the story was of the sense that like you can have everything and then you can have nothing and it doesn't take very long at all to go from one to the other.

1:06:35I think, I think you're right. It's just so evident. You walk around LA and, you know, it's sort of shocking the disparity. You know, you're walking down Rodeo Drive and there's like a surgery office with someone homeless. You know, it's it's you know, that's obviously not one of the biggest places of the unhoused. But it's still you just you see so many lost souls that are many of them are struggling with drug abuse as well. And it's just so forgotten in a way. And look, there's that in every place. But it's acute in LA, you know. It's some way and you are only a few steps from being homeless, you know.

1:07:32It's much closer than you think. And particularly in a precarious industry like our industry, where, you know, for the majority of jobbing actors, you don't know where your money's coming from. And if you also have, if you compound that with mental health issues, which Misty also has, and no support structure whatsoever, including family, you're more predisposed to potentially finding yourself living on the street. um but yeah it's it's it's hard it's it's hard to see and and and I love the way that Chris is sort of it's it's a constant feature in the background which is what it felt like in LA it's just oh it's a consistent at all times wherever you are it's just always there um and you can harden your heart too kind of like what you were saying earlier about like building up balls around yourself I think walking down the streets of LA can can force that into you and then you kind of have to force it out of yourself and that's feels like so much what this is about too.

1:08:35Yeah, you can get you can get really numb to it because you become so used to it. And that's that's that's part of the problem, isn't it? You just walk on by because you get desensitized. Yeah. Yeah. So I've been asking a lot of people this lately. And it's interesting answers of kind of the basic if you had to double feature this movie with another movie, what would it be? And I think it's really interesting for Misty Green, because the minute the title treatment comes up, you're like, Oh, this is a Pam Gray movie, I can see exactly where this is. So I'm curious about your take on a double feature, but also anything you and Chris Rock talked about, about the lineage of this, who this character is supposed to be like, or any films that you guys had as references for making it.

1:09:12We were, he asked me to watch two films, Bad Lieutenant with Harvey Keitel. Not a woman. Fascinating. No, no. Which I love. Yeah, absolutely. I absolutely love watching. It doesn't have to be a woman. It doesn't have to be a woman of color. Like it's, I love that. And Clute. Oh yeah. um classic uh complicated female character yeah yeah yeah exactly um so i watched i watched those two films and i totally see why the importance i think of bad lieutenant is is someone that is a functioning addict and that's what misty is you know it's an and a functioning addict can work its way and really it can manifest and permeate in a way that you don't realize until it's sort of too late um and so yeah i think those those are the two films that that uh i watched well chris wanted me to watch and yeah in prep for that um fantastic films yeah There's a new bad lieutenant that was at TIFF also.

1:10:25So who would have guessed? I know. I didn't get to see it. Me neither. I'm looking forward to seeing it. You can double feature that one and Misty Green. And I don't know if the character is the same, but it can just be a great way to spend a film festival if anyone gets a chance to do it. Yeah.

1:10:43That does it for today's podcast. We'll be back next week with more nerdy deep dives in Oscar season. Because again, it is the time of year to do it. in the meantime this podcast is edited by brett fox and produced by brett fox and me our theme music is by dave gonzalez thanks again to our co-host today jacqueline coley subscribe to the prestige junkie newsletter at the angler.com subscribe to this podcast on apple spotify youtube or anywhere else you get your podcast there's a video version if you're not watching it already it's a good watch we will see you next week