Supporting Actor Power Rankings with Erik Anderson and Ryan McQuade, Plus Ruth Madeley on Being Heumann

0:00Katey: That's been a really common bit of feedback that we've had that, oh my God, it's really funny. I'm like, yeah, disabled people can be funny sometimes.

0:09Erik Anderson: Hi, everyone. I'm Katie Rich. This is the Prestige Junkie Podcast. And today we are continuing our series of deep dives into the acting races. I'm joined, as always, by my colleague, Chris Rosen. Chris, let's get Oscar nerdy again. It's what we do best. Glad you're here. And we're joined this time by two special guests. We could not limit ourselves to just one member of the Awards Watch team. So we have the site's editor, Chief Eric Anderson, and the executive editor, Ryan McQuaid. Hi, guys. Thank you so much for coming to do this with us.

0:37Katey: Thank you for having us. I like my Oscars up dry with a twist, not dirty.

0:45Erik Anderson: I think making lists of actors is something that all of us just have this, like, it comforts us on some deep level. So that's what we're going to do today. We're going to go through the supporting actor category. Each of us, once again, has a list of 10 actors we think is in the mix. We'll read them out in order and get into who we think is actually going to win. After you hear all of that, you'll hear my conversation with Ruth Maidley, the star of Being Human, who has a lot to say about being on what she calls the most accessible disability friendly set that she's ever been on. And it was a fascinating conversation.

1:16Erik Anderson: All of that coming up and more. Welcome to the show. OK, before we get started, Eric and Ryan, you guys are both in the thick of or about to be in the thick of a very busy L.A. Awards week. Eric, you've been I don't know if you and the LeBola Negra team have just been riding the same buses around town, but it seems like they're everywhere. You're everywhere. What's what's it been like watching all this stuff up close for the last couple of days? It's Tuesday as we record this. So it's all very fresh.

1:42Katey: Pretty incredible. And especially for them, because they were all just at the Academy Gala, too. And they were from everything that we saw, like the stars of the show. Not only that, they're such fans of everything and everyone that they were having a blast. And I love seeing that when you have people that are in, you know, this sort of campaign season for the very first time. There's something so wonderfully innocent about it.

2:15Erik Anderson: They're not exhausted. Yeah, exactly.

2:17Katey: They haven't lost anything yet. There's, you know, it's but they're traveling so much, just absolutely everywhere. But they're having a great time. And yeah, this week was a lot. The screening and performance, the reception afterwards, and then the junket the next morning. So.

2:37Erik Anderson: So it's not just so many movies that have been really doing the hardcore press. Yeah, it's a lot.

2:43Katey: And it it feels like because AFI hasn't quite started yet, that everyone just kind of wants to get a whole bunch of these things done and out of the way. So they don't lose lose to AFI audiences.

2:59Erik Anderson: Well, Ryan, you'll be traveling for AFI. But you and I were just in Middleburg together watching kind of a smaller scale version of all of this. Do you have the same feeling that this is the fun part where everyone is still enjoying it and not exhausted? Yeah, I mean, maybe maybe us.

3:13Ryan McQuade: I don't know if I'm exhausted. I'm having a great time. I did lack of sleep as always the thing that happens. I think since I mean, I saw Chris at Telluride and I think we were still trying to find hours there that we would sleep in between parties and screenings. But I mean, I think about like poor Jordan Firstman, who I interviewed there at Middleburg, Katie. And he was in Rio and one day, then he was in Chicago, then he was at Middleburg, and then he was going to London. And he still seemed in good spirits. So, you know, whatever regiment that you need to keep you going, it seems like they're still on it and everybody's still enjoying it.

3:49Ryan McQuade: But obviously this is October, mid-October, late October-ish, and it's a long way to March. and and but yet the festival season is coming to a close and that will close that chapter and then we can start talking about the the other part of campaigning which is november december yeah

4:07Erik Anderson: well for listeners we will be wrapping up our fall festival draft that we did a few weeks ago um i honestly chris i haven't been telling the scores as well as i should have but i i promise

4:15Ruth Madeley: that's coming in the near future i had this frenchie open but okay good i haven't i haven't

4:19Erik Anderson: refreshed lately so we'll get on that um well this also this kind of period of it still being fun and wide open. It feels especially fun for talking about supporting actor like we're going to today. And I'll throw to you, Chris, before I start asking everyone for their picks and making this list. This feels more open than any of the other categories that we have done or that we're about to do. It's kind of anyone's game. Am I crazy here?

4:41Ruth Madeley: In terms of winning? Yeah, I think so. Maybe maybe we'll disagree. But I kind of feel like it is. The other thing is like it feels to me like we went in thinking very set, firm, like four or five guys who are just automatically going to be in and now i'm questioning everything pretty much except for maybe like two or three where i'm like oh i think these are the five that we thought but what if it's not and and that's fun to me i don't know like we keep getting uh getting contenders we've seen a lot certainly right like we've probably seen almost everything but maybe there's more to come i don't even know i'm like i don't like we'll talk about this i don't have like any dune guys here but who knows you know Yeah.

5:18Erik Anderson: Maybe them. I don't know. I don't think I did briefly think about Nosferatu as I was making my list, which I'm sorry, not Nosferatu, Werewolf, Jesus. That's part of maybe part of the problem. But I did not did not convince myself to commit. But I have Willem Dafoe hanging out my little 15th spot that I'm not going to say out loud. So the goal, there's four of us. In theory, we could talk about 40 actors, probably have some overlap, but I'm going to try to keep it moving. And so if someone brings up a name, we're going to see if anyone else has them higher on their list. and then hopefully consolidate all the conversation about individual contenders into one spot.

5:51Erik Anderson: So, Eric, I'm going to start with you. I'm going to go around the order of the boxes on my screen. Kick us off with your number 10 and we'll see if you have someone we all have later on.

6:00Katey: My number 10 is Steve Buscemi for Wild Horse 9, which I think has a lot of possibility. Hang on.

6:10Erik Anderson: Does anyone have Steve Buscemi later on their list? He didn't make my 10. So, OK, Eric, he's all yours.

6:15Katey: All right. Yeah, I think there's a possibility there. I mean, 10 is a pretty low place to, you know, to have any of our contenders here. But he's just he is one of those guys that you feel like should have had one by now, could have had one by now. And he's in a really strong film. Obviously, he has a co-star with much more screen time, who is really a co-lead. But we've also seen that happen in several years in the supporting categories where you have two or one is substantially larger and the other still has. But the film's strength gets the second one in.

7:00Erik Anderson: You're talking about a Banshees of Anna Sharon situation, which is from the same director as Wild Horse Nine.

7:05Katey: Sure. Yeah.

7:07Erik Anderson: Yeah. Do you guys agree with me that if Buscemi had had one more scene in Wild Horse 9, we would be talking about it much more?

7:14Ryan McQuade: Yeah, I just watched it again last night and I kind of felt the same way. I wish that there was maybe another phone call with him and Sam Rockwell in between their two. I think that I think also, too, I mean, that's a it's a good idea for a number 10. I kind of felt like our number 10s is like, who do we put in there? Because it's really like top nine. I was going back and forth on my 10. But Buscemi makes sense. It's not also just Banshee's in a Sharon, but three billboards outside of Ebbing, Missouri. Woody Harrelson got in there when Rockwell won there for his Oscar.

7:47Erik Anderson: So it would actually be breaking tradition for there not to be two supporting actors from Wild Horse Night. Okay. All right.

7:53Ryan McQuade: Yes. And Buscemi's never been nominated before. And this is kind of like the rolling theory of a lot of actors like John Goodmore, like the I guess it was the big Lebowski trio that people were talking about early on. A bit of a more challenging road than we thought it was going to be for those guys. But I think I think Buscemi, he's very good in the film, but he doesn't have the impact, I think, as Rockwell or Malkovich.

8:17Erik Anderson: Yeah, he's also really good in Only Living Pickpocket in New York, which, again, a smaller role, probably not enough to get in there. Chris, do you have any Buscemi thoughts before I ask Ryan for his 10?

8:25Ruth Madeley: No, I think that's right on the money. I feel, I mean, he is really good at having watched it again. I thought the same thing. I could see if the movie really pops, I think he could probably, he could get in. I think, but it would have to be like an even stronger contender than I think we actually think it is. So it would be, he does probably, he's probably just missing a scene. Probably also like how Parker Posey could use another phone call too, if we wanted to put her in. She's a really tiny part.

8:49Erik Anderson: She's fewer phone calls for her, I think.

8:51Ruth Madeley: But no, he's great in the movie.

8:52Ryan McQuade: It'd be nice.

8:53Erik Anderson: Yeah. All right.

8:54Ryan McQuade: so Ryan what is your number 10 then my number 10 was like I said just kind of all over the place I didn't know who to go with so I was like well let's let's just go with the biggest movie on the board so I'm gonna go with Tom Holland for the Odyssey oh wow and and um does anybody else have Tom Holland yeah anyone else have Tom Holland higher up Eric do you no okay all right I know

9:15Erik Anderson: I know he does not I love I love two one-offs in a row go go on Ryan so one is is that like

9:23Ryan McQuade: I know that Tom Holland's performance when it came out, everyone was sort of like he either really loved it or really hated it. But he's also then proceeded to make the two highest grossing films of the year. And he is super likable. He's married to Zendaya, as we all know. And he has been just doing so much great work and charming everyone throughout the summer. It really was like Tom Holland's summer, to be honest with you. It's true. And I think that Universal is going to position the Odyssey in November and December with their trio actors the same way that they did with Oppenheimer, with Murphy and with Downey Jr.

10:02Ryan McQuade: and with Blunt. And I think that that trio is going to be the family, which is Matt Damon, who we all think is going to get in, and Anne Hathaway, who we all probably think is getting in as well. and it would then be like, well, there's this co-lead, also their son, that's very pivotal to the film and he's very likable and I think he will do really well in charming voters on the awards season front and doing those Q &As and he'll be very game to do it. And if Hathaway, who's just about to have her baby soon, won't be able to do it with the trio, then I think Damon and him would hold down the fort for at least those specific screenings.

10:39Erik Anderson: I think I agree with you that he's going to get out there with him and it makes sense to have him be part of it. It's just kind of a supporting actor pile up with the Odyssey, which I think we'll probably talk about more later on this list. And how do you put Tom Holland in there and not some of the other people who are going to come up later? The family thing makes perfect sense, but it's like they almost need like a mob. They need everyone to kind of get out there with the horse or something like that. Eric, I see you shaking your head on Tom Holland. You're just a skeptic on this entire thing.

11:04Katey: No, I'm in agreement in that this is a film that has several supporting actors that I think we'll be talking about later. So it'll be a matter of for voters, who is who are they connecting with and why are they connecting with a heroic character or a villainous one? And yeah, there's and there's a lot there's a lot to choose from. It is interesting that somebody that we'll talk about later is certainly having the more camera time so far this this campaign when we'll talk about that later.

11:46Erik Anderson: I got that the Trojan horse taking all the attention from everybody else. I'm going to jump ahead. I was going to go to Chris next, but I'm going to throw in mine because I had another Odyssey long shot in number 10 that I might be the only person beating this drum. But I just think Elliot Page has the scene of the movie in Hades and is like kind of the beating heart of the entire movie. Like you see him at the very beginning. You see him at the end. It's threaded through the entire thing. The theme of the movie about the guilt over this Raid of Troy is so connected to that character. Obviously, it's an incredible narrative of having this actor who has been able to transition and have this career continuing onward, a previous Oscar nominee.

12:20Erik Anderson: I don't know how much he's going to campaign. I don't know how you balance all those things that you're talking about. But if I had to pick one supporting actor from The Odyssey, I might pick Elliot Page. And I don't know, maybe other people might be there. With me? Any of you?

12:34Ryan McQuade: Probably not here, it seems like. But that's a very interesting choice. And I love it. I think it would also, if Elliot Page to get nominated, it would be kind of vindication for the vitriol that they received leading up to that film and the nastiness that surrounded all that.

12:55Erik Anderson: Yeah, Lupita Nyong 'o's part isn't big enough to do the vindication. So Elliot Page has got to do it.

13:00Ryan McQuade: Carry the torch for the both of them. But that scene in the underworld is fantastic. And yeah, they are the through line from the beginning to the end, even with Pattinson's fall as a character by the end of that film, too. So that's an inspired number 10. I love it.

13:18Erik Anderson: You know what? To me, October is the time for throwing some things out there. Yeah, why not? All right, Chris, are you going to keep our turn going? Do you have an outlier for number 10?

13:27Ruth Madeley: I hope maybe I have Skylar Gizondo for primetime, who I absolutely loved and I think should be in serious conversation for this nomination. I will probably won't be.

13:36Erik Anderson: Skylar Gizondo is my number nine. So I'm just going to say this is the Skylar time. You go.

13:39Ruth Madeley: Let's do it then. I thought he's great in the movie. So good. He's like the heart and soul of the movie. I actually think he's better than Pattinson in the movie, who I think is also great. I think you can make a case for both him and Merritt Weaver getting nominated for this crazy movie. But who knows? A24 has a ton of other things to jungle. But I thought he was just so good. And I've seen him obviously before, but I thought this was like another level to the performance. And yeah, it's like he's like just incredibly emotional performance and very funny and weird funny. And like, it's just very it's just he's great.

14:08Ruth Madeley: And playing an actor, which maybe gives him a leg up on, you know, they love actors, love actors and getting to do that. So I don't know. I have him as my number 10. But you had him at number nine, Katie. So that's good. That makes me happy.

14:18Erik Anderson: I think all the same things as you. I think my only thought is that like it would take like one critics win in like one of the smaller critics groups for everyone to be like, whoa, this is maybe going to happen. Because primetime's a hit. It's not a you can see everything's a hit. But like, it really had a cultural impact. He is on this rising moment. I mean, as a younger star, it's not as likely an outcome in the supporting actor. I feel like it's tougher in that way. But Eric and Ryan, do you guys think Chris and I are really off on an island here?

14:43Ryan McQuade: I don't think so. I mean, like, it's very well received. I mean, I was looking at the Inkler pundits page and everybody seemed to like, there was a bunch of people that had Chris's theory about even in their five, let alone in the 6 through 10. He's fantastic in the film and really shows the other side of the loss of innocence involved in what Chris Hansen's doing there. Yeah, Chris, that's such an inspired pick. I almost thought about doing it myself and I was like, no, I can't do it. I'll go with the box office guy.

15:20Erik Anderson: Thank you for flattering us so much on our picks also.

15:23Ruth Madeley: We appreciate it. I mean, New York Film Critics Circle win would be great for him, let's say. Yeah, that would be really good. National Board of Review?

15:29Ryan McQuade: Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

15:31Erik Anderson: I mean, Trifecta. I mean, this feels so wide open. It's hard to imagine anyone getting it. But like Benicio Del Toro, we were kind of last year, we're like, oh, it'd be so interesting. And then, obviously, different size movie. He's Decoy Dan. There we go. He's Decoy Dan. I know. Okay, Eric, we'll go back to you. I would love it. Sorry, do you have Skylar Gazzardo thoughts first?

15:48Katey: I do. I don't have him in my 10, but I would love for it to happen because, yeah, like Ryan said, he's really something special in this. And to Chris's point, maybe a better performance than Pattinson because it's a more complicated performance. And the bookends of the 525 ,600 minutes as they are.

16:15Erik Anderson: It's getting that theater kid vote.

16:17Katey: that's like really the whole movie for me is that is the the first version which is so wide-eyed and innocent and hopeful and then by the end he's just so broken and ruined and what the idea of an actor was going to be is so shattered and but it's still done with an enormous amount of empathy of why he's singing that song at the end yeah i would love it it's a good clip for him um

16:43Erik Anderson: All right, Eric, we'll stick with you. You're at number nine then.

16:47Katey: My number nine. This is really hard. I can't even make sense of this right now, but it just is what it is. I have Mark Ruffalo in for being human.

16:59Erik Anderson: Oh, that is a fun one. I don't have him on my list. I don't have any. Okay. No, that's a good one. When you delight Chris, that's how you know you've made a good pick. All right, Eric, go for it. Mark Ruffalo.

17:10Katey: Previous nominee. I but at the same time, it's obviously Ruth Manley that has the has the the notices and is the conversation. So for Ruffalo to get in, I feel like even though as a previous nominee, he would sort of be a coattail to her. So I don't feel great about it.

17:33Erik Anderson: We talk about people Hong chowing and that's basically what that is. You tag on coattails every year.

17:40Katey: We always have them.

17:41Erik Anderson: Yeah, absolutely. Ryan, your number nine.

17:44Ryan McQuade: My number nine is a film that I think people are very passionate about and have been since Cannes, and I could actually see one of the trifectas pushing for it, and that's Adam Driver in Paper Tiger.

17:59Erik Anderson: I'm going to keep spoiling my, he's at my number eight, so I'm going to let you just take it.

18:03Ryan McQuade: I think the New York Film Critics Circle's got this one wrapped up that's like, let's just shake a hand there. you know and and they're gonna award that movie someone because they all like it i'm on record being very mixed about it but i think driver is the best part of it and it's one of his best performances in a very very long time um he's he's got those great suits and he's this great entryway for this con man inside this family that is you know like does not want to go down this rabbit hole but clearly he he's just drags his brother miles teller down with him and there's like the best scene in the film is him uh in the what is in the tall grass outside of the airport like surviving for his life uh that's some of the best stuff that that gray provides and he gives it all the driver in my opinion i think like the the stuff with teller and joe hansen is a massive mess but um but i think that he's getting notices and i mean like he just did i forgot which film festival he was at but i saw him sitting down with stephen colbert it was a Montclair film there you go it was with Chris that's right and so like if he's willing to sit down and he's willing to shake some hands like maybe National Board of Review maybe New York is the right place for that to kick off and you know maybe he gets in a Golden Globe who knows but I think that people really do you know like that film I still need to maybe watch it over and over again to figure that out but then I won't but he's great And I mean, he's always consistently great.

19:39Ryan McQuade: And I think, you know, he's a previous nominee for Marriage Story and it would be his first time since then. So, yeah, Driver.

19:46Erik Anderson: I think I co-signed most of what you said. I think I like Paper Tiger more than you. And I think Adam Driver is so great in this. Like I said, he's at my memory. Are we the only ones without a driver on our 10, Chris and Eric?

19:55Ruth Madeley: I didn't have him in. I thought of him, though. He was almost at the bottom level here. I really like it. I'm mixed on the movie more. I like it more than you, Ryan, and seemingly Eric, less than Katie. So I'm like right in the middle. I want to know what that gray is. I'm in the gray area. Is that what it is? No, sorry. But no, it's a fine movie. He's really good at it. I think I agree. And it's also he's a lead, basically. So that helps. He's like a co-lead. So that's also good.

20:21Erik Anderson: I think he's tremendous in it. The only thing is that with James Gray, as a fan of James Gray movies, every single time we get our hopes up about the Oscars and every single time they ignore him. And I just I don't want to I want that to change. And I think he's so wonderful. And James Gray is such a great talker about the movie. Adam Driver, like famously not as press friendly. So I'm not sure what that process is going to be like for him. But if he's hanging out with Stephen Colbert at Montclair, that's a good step in the right direction.

20:48Ryan McQuade: Maybe James Gray does an interview and says, like, I'll speak for Driver. I mean, you know what I mean? And then, like, they kind of do like a sort of a puppeteering sort of thing. I would love to have James Gray speak for me.

20:58Erik Anderson: He's welcome to do what he wants. OK, so, Chris, we're on to your number nine.

21:04Ruth Madeley: My number nine, I went with Riz Ahmed for Digger, everyone's favorite movie. Does anybody else have him? No.

21:12Erik Anderson: He was in the outside 15 of mine. I don't know.

21:16Ruth Madeley: I'm like, I don't know what to think. The industry does seem to really like this movie way more than we have as observers. And I think Riz Ahmed is really, even the people who didn't like it thought he was a standout. The fact that he's got all his stuff with Tom Cruise, I think obviously helps too. I don't know. So I threw him in here as like, why not? Because of the Digger industry love. But I can't be that enthusiastic about it just because I'm not the biggest fan of the movie.

21:43Erik Anderson: I mean, there's Digger fans out there. They are. Eric or Reiner, either of you in the we need to support Digger. Hi. Are we the wrong people to ask?

21:52Ryan McQuade: Wrong people to ask. Eric, have you seen it?

21:56Erik Anderson: Eric hasn't even seen it yet. Oh, my God. Did you know that it's about climate change?

22:01Ryan McQuade: Has that word gotten up to you? It's satire. I don't know if you knew that. Oh, my God. It might have screamed it a couple of times. No, I do think Riz Ahmed is the best performance in the film. But that's not saying much because like Stuhlbarg and Goodman are really bad. And Goodman was like we all kind of thought would be the person that would be up here. Maybe that's a possibility if the industry just says that all of us are wrong.

22:28Erik Anderson: It could be one of those things where like it's taken out of our hands and they run off with it. Sean Penn is really great one by the left another but that that's a recent example of like the

22:37Ryan McQuade: industry says nope we're doing this instead but even still when when when that film came out and people were giving it far better reviews than Digger they were like the the highlights of that were Sean Ben's best performance in such a long time and that he should should be nominated and no one's really saying that about anybody in this cast to be honest but no Riz Ahmed I will say his drunk acting is perfect. It is some of the best drunk acting I've ever seen for that one scene and he does have the sad responsibility of having to put up with Cruise in most of those scenes. But maybe they'll reward him just off of that and having to listen to that dialogue that Cruise has to say all the time.

23:20Ruth Madeley: It's also, in terms of the movie, I agree that Goodman and Stuhlbarg are not very good but they're also... We don't get to see them playing the actors, right? They're just playing the parts and this broad hammy satire that they're performing in the movie, right? And so like Riz Ahmed is also only really in that play or whatever, right? But like his character is like the best character in the play. It's so confusing to talk about, but that's kind of how I feel. He's the most sympathetic. Yes, he's like the audience surrogate in the show and then also maybe for the movie and it gives him the best stuff to do.

23:57Ryan McQuade: I like how Chris is talking about the film like that and Eric said, I have not seen the film. Eric could not possibly carry. Three weeks later, I'd be being spoiled at all about the movie and also it's the premise of the movie. I know, I'm just sitting here being like, I haven't seen the film. And he's like, you know, all the layers to this thing. Eric, I'm sorry, but like, not at all. Spoil away. To be fair, he's not going to remember any of that in about 20 minutes. That is also true. Totally fine. Yeah. All right.

24:26Erik Anderson: I'm going to keep this on the track, unlike Digger. As I said before, my number nine was Skylar Cassando, so we got to him already. So, Eric, we're to you with your number eight.

24:35Katey: Okay. At eight, we are back on the Odyssey train because I have Robert Pattinson here. He's my eight, too. So this is great.

24:47Erik Anderson: He's coming much later. Okay. So I'm just going to ask us. He's my number eight as well.

24:51Ryan McQuade: Is he really? Wow, look at that. That's three eight. Wow. That's awesome.

24:55Erik Anderson: I'm holding us up then We're going to get to it later Everyone hold that thought Ryan what's your number 8?

25:02Ryan McQuade: It's Robert Pattinson So Katie what's your number 7?

25:09Erik Anderson: I had Adam Driver at number 8 Pattinson and Driver They occupy some similar brain space So number 7 This is where I have Edward Norton For the invite I have him 7 also Isn't that so funny? Now we're back together. Ryan's got him later.

25:28Ryan McQuade: I have him seven as well.

25:30Erik Anderson: Wow. Oh, wow. That is some impressive.

25:32Ryan McQuade: I have him a little bit higher. Okay. So we can wait on that.

25:36Erik Anderson: All right. So Ryan, you're number seven. That's what we don't know yet.

25:41Ryan McQuade: I have Coleman Domingo for Michael. And I feel like we'll be talking about this maybe the rest of you. Later.

25:48Ruth Madeley: I have him higher.

25:50Ryan McQuade: Oh, boy. Wow. Me too. Okay.

25:53Erik Anderson: Okay. he was on the outside of my 10 so it's hard to decide

26:00Ryan McQuade: so we're up to number 6 for everybody

26:03Erik Anderson: right? I've got my Eric, start us off with number 6

26:08Katey: Coleman Domingo is my number 6

26:11Erik Anderson: Chris, can you go higher than number 6? I can go higher Chris is going to go higher

26:16Katey: I know, name that tune

26:19Erik Anderson: I can go higher Ryan, you're number 6 then

26:22Ryan McQuade: It's like playing blackjack. My number six, this, I know it's going to be higher. And everybody's going to go, wow. My number six is Paul Giamatti in the debut. He's higher for me. I have him higher also, but that's great.

26:36Erik Anderson: To be clear, number six is of great. Like, this is a sign of respect.

26:39Ryan McQuade: But with Paul Giamatti's history, to put him at number six. That's true. It is. It's like, I can feel everyone typing, you're wrong, Brian. You are wishing for dangerous things.

26:48Erik Anderson: Okay, Chris, so you're number six then.

26:50Ruth Madeley: I think mine is going to be higher. I have Guitorica De La Fuente in my number six spot, but I feel like we'll talk about him briefly. I do believe he is coming up soon. I'm sorry.

26:59Erik Anderson: Well, I think I'm going to get booed for my number six, and I promise I have, I think, a good reason for it. This is where I put Sam Rockwell for Wild Horse Nine. Wow.

27:07Ryan McQuade: Oh, my God. What is happening?

27:10Ruth Madeley: There's still a good spot, you guys. It's crazy.

27:12Ryan McQuade: I know we're punning all these things, but it's like, wow.

27:16Ruth Madeley: I never expected any of these. This is really good. What?

27:21Erik Anderson: I mean, we threw out all of our weird one-offs, and now we're just fighting over the same seven people.

27:27Ryan McQuade: I guess. Well, everyone we've hunted is love.

27:29Erik Anderson: I know. I know. That is wild.

27:32Ryan McQuade: That's great. I love it.

27:33Erik Anderson: We all have offensive people in our number six slots, it seems. Oh, my gosh. That went to the five. Look at that, guys. Yeah, you're a five. Aaron, your fifth slot.

27:43Katey: My, wow. Wow. Okay. My fifth is John Leguizamo. for the Odyssey.

27:53Erik Anderson: Me too.

27:54Katey: Anybody have him hired? We have these four actors all year from this movie. Okay, but hang on.

28:01Erik Anderson: Chris has him hired. How much higher, Chris? Should we do it now?

28:04Katey: I have him in three. I have him in three.

28:05Erik Anderson: Okay, all right. Eric, you continue your thought. Yeah, keep going. We'll do Leslie Leguizamo.

28:09Katey: No, I was just thinking we have these four supporting actor performances in this film. Leguizamo, the only one that was just at the gala, He wants it badly. He is very, very vocal about how much he wants it. And I think that that can go a really long way. As we know, any of us that talk to voters, there is such a strange balance that they have where they want people to want it. but you have to be kind of careful about how badly you want it and how you show it. It can be such a weirdly delicate tightrope to walk. But to me, he feels like the strongest for voters. He's not who I would put in of the four highest, but I feel that is voter friendly.

29:09Erik Anderson: I think that the veteran thing and being able to get out there to that extent and want it, having had the career he has, it's not like he's saying, like, pay attention to me. I don't deserve it yet. Like, we know that he deserves the attention. He's worked with so many people. He's made, I guess, Fox a lot of money with the Ice Age movies. Like, that counts for something. So I think you're exactly right. Like, he has been out there so visible this entire time. And he like he's really sincere when he talks about it, about the value of this role in a way that like I think even like Damon and Hathaway can't quite get at that because there's like such established stars already.

29:39Erik Anderson: So I guess I have in the exact same spot. So I totally agree with you on all of this.

29:43Ryan McQuade: I had him in number four.

29:44Erik Anderson: OK. All right. So we're basically right there.

29:47Ryan McQuade: I think also to him being a veteran in the industry and also being someone that is a loud proponent for Latino representation in cinema. He is a massive proponent of this and as am I about seeing people up on the screen that are visible for audience members that all of us can gravitate towards. And his moments are also very emotional in the film too. I think there's the moment, one of the moments that made me cry in the Odyssey, which is not, it's very few, but one involves him when Odysseus returns and speaks to him for the first time. And, you know, the Raiders have just kind of, you know, killed his livestock and everything.

30:35Ryan McQuade: And it feels like that hope and despair of not having is lost and that he doesn't have anything to really grab onto. And I think that there's great moments there. There's great. He has great one off lines, but he's going to have not to the same effect, but he's going to have like single spotlights, I believe, for him, much like Samantha Morton will. And he'll have a story to tell. It's very much in the vein of like Delroy Lindo last year, where I can see actors that have worked with him over the last 30 years really step up and want to champion him. And rightfully so, because I think he is very good in the film.

31:11Ryan McQuade: He's one of my favorite performances in the Odyssey.

31:14Erik Anderson: His American Cinematheque retrospective is going to be so fun. It's going to be so good. Chris, you have a meritious of anybody. So anything you want to throw onto this?

31:21Ruth Madeley: I mean, all this stuff that you're saying here, I think he's I agree with. And I think he's got such a compelling narrative. And we've seen, especially in this category, I think sometimes that could go a long way. And if The Odyssey is going to win Best Picture, what if he ends up being just the only acting winner? I mean, I don't think it's like that far afield to think he could actually win.

31:37Erik Anderson: Anne Hathaway is right there.

31:38Ruth Madeley: Well, you know, what if she doesn't win? What if he does? I don't know.

31:43Erik Anderson: Things have happened. Okay, Ryan, so then we're on to your number five.

31:46Ryan McQuade: My number five is Edward Norton for The Invite.

31:51Erik Anderson: Does anyone have him hire? Is this our peak Norton?

31:53Ryan McQuade: I think this is peak Norton. Okay. Because I was the one that held up that. All right. I think the more I think about The Invite and the more I hear from people, the more that I think it's rising and doing so well. Olivia Wilde and the crew have already started doing Q &As. I've had the likes of like Greta Gerwig and others go out there and campaign for it. And and so for me, I think that Norton has one. He just was previously nominated for a complete unknown. And he's been nominated, I think, four times. And he's a veteran in that. They they love, you know, maybe not working with, but definitely to nominate kind of like a Sean Penn.

32:37Ryan McQuade: and but also his monologue at the end of the towards the end of the film he wrote himself and he's talked about how he wrote that and how important that was for him with along with wild in terms of their collaboration it's a vital moment of this of the film too in terms of like it's it's very emotional uh and some of the best acting he's done in a very long time um i just kind of feel like the the invite it's quartet i want a champion and i want them to get in because like that movie doesn't work without those performances along with that script and wild's direction um and i mean if penelope cruz is going to be high up on that list that so should norton for they're just they're insane energy that they have and then obviously like the the scene where uh penelope cruz snaps at him and like corrects his you know his spanish um it's it's there's tons of little scenes there that he has, but I just think it's a really great performance.

33:35Erik Anderson: I mean, I have him outside my five, but I agree with everything that you said. I think he's absolutely believable for a nomination here. I imagine we all agree, even if we don't have him in our five.

33:44Ruth Madeley: Yeah, I love him in the movie. I was concerned that he won't get number ones. And I feel like in this tight, kind of tight race, like if he's five, four or five on a lot of ballots, what if he gets pushed off by somebody with more enthusiasm? But he's great. And it's nice to see that there is still like a lot of enthusiasm and more enthusiasm from the invite than maybe we would have expected at this point which is good so i think it's really strong overall yeah uh chris you're number five my number five is coleman domingo for michael does anybody else have him was i the highest i think you were the highest chris you've gotten the highest we can so you hit the high note like biopic music biopic transformation and people love coleman domingo So he's gotten in for maybe obviously lesser seen movies than Michael and also maybe not even as good as Michael.

34:33Ruth Madeley: And I don't even think Michael is a great shakes.

34:36Erik Anderson: Rustin versus Michael is a tough contest. But I'm like, I could see him. Wasn't he nominated for Sing Sing?

34:43Ruth Madeley: Sing Sing's a great movie. Sing Sing's good. And that's a good movie. Like we love Sing Sing. And he's good in Rustin. I just don't think the movie's great. Maybe as good as Michael, but whatever. Anyway, I have him in. They're already campaigning. No one campaigns better than Coleman Domingo in my mind at this point. And so like I think he's a reasonable expectation to get in. I think the other thing is we could talk about this because I'll have somebody else coming up too. In terms of like playing a real person, that usually is a great thing. But his is like way more of a transformation because of the makeup.

35:10Ruth Madeley: He looks slightly different and like whatever. And it's like kind of a villain role because of Joe being abusive and whatever. Again, the movie doesn't really go into any of this. And it's not even giving him a lot to do. But I don't think any of that matters because I think it's like people love Coleman Domingo. so I have him at number five.

35:26Erik Anderson: You know, it was a great moment. I was looking up clips of Guitarrica de la Fuente and when Coleman Domingo guest hosted Jimmy Kimmel was when Guitarrica played on it. So it was a clip of Coleman Domingo standing in the crowd going, Guitarrica de la Fuente! And it would just be very funny if they wound up being Oscar nominees together. That's all.

35:41Ryan McQuade: He's also playing a villain here. Yeah. They love in this category. They love it. Because I don't know if you guys know, but Judge Jackson was a pretty bad dad. Not a great guy. Not really good being a father. I don't know if the film conveyed that enough. It's in there somewhere. But like, no, I think he's he's someone that we just I think we all know this. And Katie and Chris, you guys might have done this when you were doing your your draft a couple of episodes back. But like it feels like Coleman Domingo will win an Oscar at a certain point. I don't know if you guys drafted him or not. I don't either.

36:15Ryan McQuade: But we should have. If you didn't, you really should have. And it's it may not be for this, but he is knocking on the door. And he does it in such a way where I don't think he's he's like others where he's like trying and really like, I want to win this. He's not at that stage yet. I just think that he's a consistent character actor that people really love and respect and have nothing but wonderful things to say when they work with him. And he was the best on the press tour of trying to talk about the film in all of its questionable subject matter and in the stuff that wasn't included. and he did the best he could or even that the Jackson State would allow.

36:56Ryan McQuade: So maybe he gets some points for that too because it's going to come up on the campaign trail for them. But I think he's the best person to kind of navigate those waters.

37:07Erik Anderson: Yeah. All right. So I said my number five was John Leguizamo to agree with Eric. So Eric, I'll go straight to you for your number four.

37:14Katey: Okay. My number four is Andrew Garfield in Artificial.

37:20Erik Anderson: I have him. Which I have not seen yet. Slightly higher up. Oh, okay.

37:24Katey: But I know, but I'm so excited, and everything that I know and have read just is, yeah.

37:30Erik Anderson: It sounds like we have him higher up, so we might get to get into it a little bit later. I'm all here for a gay villain.

37:37Katey: Give me gay villain Oscars.

37:39Erik Anderson: That's something Colman Domingo doesn't have going for him in character than Michael, so gay villain is bonus Oscar points.

37:44Ryan McQuade: Just villain, not gay villain.

37:46Erik Anderson: Yeah, Andrew Garfield's got that category to himself this year.

37:48Ryan McQuade: Katie, you have something on Joe Jackson we don't know about. I'm not thinking on the list of who else we can speculate about, but I think that's it.

37:53Erik Anderson: So, okay, Chris, you've got Andrew higher up. I do as well. I do as well. Okay, so yeah, so then Ryan, you're number four.

37:59Ryan McQuade: My number four was John Leguizamo.

38:02Erik Anderson: Oh, excellent. Chris, you're number four.

38:03Ryan McQuade: My number four was Andrew, actually.

38:05Ruth Madeley: Garfield.

38:05Erik Anderson: Oh, okay, well, let's talk about Andrew Garfield.

38:07Ruth Madeley: Yeah.

38:08Erik Anderson: Eric, finish your thought. Gay villain. Anything else? Yeah, I know you haven't seen Artificial yet, so anything else that makes you... Garfield is due in a way, right? I mean, I know.

38:17Katey: He has two nominations, so I don't know if I would call him due. But he is also, like Coleman Domingo, somebody who is so eloquent in talking about his characters and his films and the industry. He is insanely likable and warm. so he's I think he will do very very well at anything that comes up if it's in actors on actors or a round table or whatever it might be he's just he just speaks so well on anything that he's doing and you can hear him on this

38:58Erik Anderson: podcast talking about the uprising a few weeks ago a movie nobody saw but he talked great about it he was very good at advocating

39:04Ryan McQuade: to watch it because he had to do the interview you no no i did it no i've seen that one i have seen the uprising believe me i wasn't gonna miss

39:12Erik Anderson: the chance to talk to andrew garfield are you kidding who doesn't want to talk to i want to

39:15Ryan McQuade: talk to him about that magical tree movie i yeah i haven't seen that one so chris i saw that

39:22Erik Anderson: well you gotta get on artificial next you put him down for the magic faraway tree right here not artificial yes that's exactly i have magic faraway tree that's right no i have i have

39:31Ruth Madeley: artificial too i'm i could like man he's so great in the movie keating i like we've both seen that he's so good and playing sam altman and playing him as a complete uh sociopathic villain i think will go very far into getting him uh engendering goodwill with hollywood at this point i would say uh gwyneth paltrow accepted and i think that he could really win maybe here i think he could be win competitive but i'm just like i don't know what they're gonna take on the movie that's why I was like, is that movie going to be like they're outside of calling your name? They're not always into Lucas movies.

40:04Ruth Madeley: I wonder if this will be different. I think it could be different. But until I see more people seeing it beyond like the bubble of the New York Film Festival and like early screenings, I think it played London as well or did a screening there. Right. So, yeah, I don't know. I don't think I heard anything out of it. I mean, yeah, I'll see. But I think he's great. He should get nominated.

40:24Katey: I think we're also in a glut of evil billionaire movies right now. That's true. There's a lot to choose from. Including one that clearly did not make this list. Interesting.

40:37Erik Anderson: Well, I was going to summon Jeremy Strong, honestly, because you're talking about whether the movie connects. Even if it doesn't, you could have an apprentice situation where people say, I admire your ability to play this monster who is shaping our society, even if we don't love the movie. Sure, sure. Yeah.

40:51Ryan McQuade: I had it at three. I'm kind of hedging my bets on it because like I think Andrew Garfield being a two-time nominee and actually I mean like to Katie's point like he has been overdue because I think I mean the snub of the social network for me will always be something that reigns true but you know I also think that to Chris's point like they are so cold on Lucasfilms they couldn't even like nominate the challenger score after I won the globe we remember don't worry we remember that score flying that flag forever every day um but even like daniel craig is another person who had more middling reviews for queer and got globe and sag and artificial is such a i think

41:34Erik Anderson: it's a better movie than queer it's an infinitely more accessible movie than queer absolutely i

41:39Ryan McQuade: just worry about you know he's had very popular films and they just haven't reached through and neon has so much this year um you know and to chris's point as well like what else do they nominate this movie for that means then you have to take out the other films and those films have so many craft players and above the line players as well yeah we're talking about three odyssey performances today so it's very so it's very four or four yeah so it's like uh you know you know we could probably have thrown in a fifth one if we wanted to um hamish patel is hanging around

42:13Erik Anderson: I'm waiting for someone to get into him. He's good in the movie. I will say that if Artificial really hits big, I'm going to start talking about Europe or Sophomore. I think we don't know if he's going to be popular. He was so good in it. He's so great in it. And such a clear lead, which no one really realized before the movie started screening. But I feel like the movie has to get bigger for that to happen because Best Actor is so crazy. Yeah. But we'll see. I have Garfield further on my list, but I won't go deep on him there. I'll go to my number four, who is definitely someone who's going to come up later.

42:39Erik Anderson: This is where I put Gui Tarika de la Fuente. I will say, I think anyone in my top seven, I would say, I think is competitive for a win. So please don't get mad at me that I have only put him at number four later on when you guys get into it. I know.

42:51Ryan McQuade: I realize it's going to come for you.

42:53Erik Anderson: I know. Look, I have infinite respect for Guitarek here. So anyway, I'll move on to Eric's number three, since I'm sure Guitarek is coming up later.

43:01Katey: He is coming up later. My number three is Sam Rockwell, Wild Horse 9. My top three has not changed. changed i don't think it will i don't think it will change and i can't imagine rockwell being lower than than three i just can't realize i shocked you by putting him at number six i agree

43:22Ruth Madeley: with you also like he's great in this movie it's great i have him oh my god i don't think you guys

43:28Erik Anderson: are wrong when i get to my number one you may see how i have created a situation for myself but yes so rockwell i mean i think you everyone knows the case but make the case anyway um so obviously

43:39Katey: Obviously he's in what we think is going to be a strong film. He is supporting, but he's really a co-lead, absolutely a co-lead in this movie. And it just, I don't know, history is favorable to him getting in, both from McDonough films and how he gets actors in, Rockwell's own win and able to then parlay that into that horrible George Bush nomination. I don't know. It feels like a no brainer.

44:17Erik Anderson: Kristen Ryan, Rockwell, you're right there with him, I assume.

44:21Ruth Madeley: I mean, I have him winning. So we could I have like one. I don't know why. Again, like I don't feel that confident in any of these to win. But I just was like to Eric's point there, Like he's won already for, for a Martin McDonough movie. I don't think like three billboards was maybe, we'll see, but it was obviously very competitive to win best picture at that year. We'll see if Wild Horse Nine can do that as well. But I mean, like he's so, he's so good in it also. And he's a co-lead and all these things are great. And what if it's just like, kind of like they love Rockwell. Like, what if it's like Christoph Waltz again, or Merger Ali winning a second Oscar?

44:54Ruth Madeley: Like they don't really care. That's a good comparison. They're just going to be like, we love it. So that's why I put him at number one. Um, but I think he's definitely, that's why it was loved that you didn't have him in. Cause I could almost see like, what if he doesn't get in? What if it's like, I don't know, Tom Hanks and Captain Phillips or something where you're like, Oh, obviously they're going to get him in. And then people just rank them lower cause they think everyone's going to vote for him and he doesn't even get in. I don't think that'll happen, but it makes, it makes me laugh too.

45:17Ruth Madeley: It amuses me to think about such things, Katie. So thank you.

45:20Erik Anderson: There's a lot of options. There's a lot of well-liked movies and a lot of well-liked actors in the mix here. And I think that's where, not that I'm like even necessarily saying, I think that will happen, but it does feel like a possibility. and there were just other people I wanted to rank higher.

45:30Ruth Madeley: I love this. I love this so much.

45:33Erik Anderson: Ryan, do you have Rockwell thoughts before we move on from him?

45:35Ryan McQuade: I have him at number two. I think he's like just a solid number two as possible. I think what Eric said is right about the film. It's like a top four contender. And so it's, you know, at this phase, he seems more likely to get in. I'm not at the win stage yet, just because like I don't see, I see other previous winners, not just in not in this category but maybe in just in other categories that have stronger chances and like the the the multiple winners winning in one night is very very rare of of that happening but i i watched the movie like i said again uh to you guys earlier last night and he's so good in that movie but it really is like he is he's doing a lot of setup so that malkovich can then knock the the the ball out of the park both comedically and emotionally but he has his moments especially with like parker posey on the phone or in the final five minutes where he has to carry it over the finish line and he's just a veteran of of that dialogue from mcdonough and he's playing a much more likable person let's go around than in three billboards yep two um even if uh lee is a is also just like Chris and kind of an anti-hero in a lot of ways.

46:55Erik Anderson: I thought you were calling up Chris Rosen for being like a CIA agent. No, not Chris Rosen. I'm talking Chris, the character that John Malkovich plays.

47:03Ryan McQuade: Chris, you know, Chris, I don't know if you were in the CIA or not. Where were you in 1973, Chris? Exactly. Where were you in 73? Chris killed JFK. Here we go. But no, I think he's I wouldn't say he's pretty locked in at this point up there. But also I say that and I knocked out Paul Giamatti so like who knows at this point I feel like you said Katie the top seven are really the ones that are like battling on all of our boards here for these final spots we might be shuffling the same people

47:34Erik Anderson: around there's going to be a snub or two

47:36Ryan McQuade: that is going to happen that someone's going to get a bunch I think of these precursors and they're going to miss and we're going to go how did that happen and so you know Katie you have that at San Marco right now.

47:50Katey: Paul Meskel last year got every single concert. Yeah, exactly. That's so true. In the film with the locked best actress winner and then right at the last minute.

48:03Ryan McQuade: Kind of like Paul Giamatti. Interesting. I knew you were going to say that. God damn you, Ryan McQuaid.

48:10Erik Anderson: All right, wait, Ryan, so do your number three who isn't Paul Giamatti and is clearly somebody else.

48:15Ryan McQuade: My number three is Andrew Garfield. Okay, all right.

48:19Erik Anderson: We did Garfield. You can have a final thought on him if you want.

48:22Ryan McQuade: I just think that, you know, who doesn't want to talk and hang out with Andrew Garfield at parties and see that long flowing hair? That's beautiful.

48:30Erik Anderson: Chris, you're number three.

48:32Ruth Madeley: My number three is John Leguizamo. So we already did him, which is great.

48:36Erik Anderson: And then my number three is Paul Giamatti. Do I have him the highest? Does anyone have him highest?

48:41Ruth Madeley: I have him too, but we can do him now. Number two. All right.

48:45Erik Anderson: This is a good spot for him. And I mean, the palmesical comparison you just made is very valid. I don't know how big the debut is going to be still. It's played really well in a lot of places. It played really well in Middleburg where Ryan and I just were. No one disputes that Julianne Morris is going to walk away with that Oscar. She is incredible. But the scene where everyone goes nuts for her, Paul Giamatti is right there with her. Like he is kind of step for step, not in such a way that it would be a lead. It's a true supporting performance. And I think, you know, she could do that performance with anybody, obviously.

49:14Erik Anderson: but they're so great together. The power of the movie is so, between the two of them and the Giamatti not winning for, let's just say, American Viction, the Holdovers, a couple of years ago, like it's not, it wasn't a snub, like he did great. We were all very happy for him. But I think that energy of saying like, let's reward him is still very much there with him. And so if the debut can hang in there, continue being, I think as popular as it is so far, I don't see why he would miss out unless something weird happens, which of course it absolutely can.

49:43Ryan McQuade: I just think that to your point Katie like everyone has highlighted I mean it's happened at every screening at every festival the debut mid applause is like if you don't do it then you're not really a cool festival then at this point

49:59Erik Anderson: I know but like it is like it's

50:02Ryan McQuade: it's like the thing of like it's it's all that connects us in all the festivals together at this point is that we all know we're going to clap midway at Julianne having this wonderful moment opposite Paul Giamatti but all the praise has been for Julianne Moore. Like, and that's what I'm worried about with Paul Giamatti. It's like he had not enough talk about his scene at the end of the film, as much as there is about Jesse Eisenberg's vision and those songs and, you know, that the musical. And then of course this towering sweeping performance that we all think at this point is going to win best actress.

50:33Ryan McQuade: And I, I, when I talk to people, it's like Julianne Moore, Julianne Moore for that film and not necessarily as much about Paul Giamatti. and of course he's like he wasn't at London he wasn't at Middleburg he wasn't in a couple places because I know he's busy doing other work so it may be in November December he returns with them and they become this trio down the stretch but I don't know there's something about like Paul Giamatti where it's like every single time he tries to do this he is like he is the the bridesmaid not the bride and like I felt that you know with like missing out on Sideways or you know or Cinderella Man or The Holdover.

51:09Erik Anderson: He got nominated for Cinderella Man, right?

51:11Ryan McQuade: Yeah, he did get nominated and then he lost to Clooney. And then, you know, Cillian Murphy and him were pretty close at one point. And then Cillian Murphy was just the guy, you know. And so he's gotten very close. I do think people really love working with him. But I don't know. I have the feeling like he's going to be the odd man out because I don't necessarily think the debut is there yet in terms of picture. so I just think it's an actress sweeper and maybe a screenplay kind of like mirroring a real pain in a lot of ways

51:43Erik Anderson: so maybe the best supporting actor winner a real pain is sure but just the one

51:49Ryan McQuade: but just the one and then you know just the sweeper the sweeper acting win that lands a screenplay nomination and maybe that's true

51:57Ruth Madeley: unfortunately Ryan you're being so compelling here that I really am

51:59Erik Anderson: you can't take him out of your list now Chris I'm not going to take him out

52:02Ruth Madeley: I wouldn't take him out, but I know. Come to the dark side, Chris.

52:05Katey: Everything he's saying feels right, but yes.

52:07Ruth Madeley: Go ahead, Derek. I push back on that.

52:09Katey: I push back on Ryan's reasoning. Don't worry, we run out of time here before we move on to the next one.

52:16Ryan McQuade: I get it. I get it.

52:17Katey: And yeah, I literally just made the Paul Meskel comp for him. But what I think is unique here is, yes, even if we all believe that Julianne Moore is going to run the table, Paul Giamatti does not have a B story outside on his own. Every single scene is with Julianne Moore. So if you are lockstep with Julianne Moore through this movie, you are also lockstep with Paul Giamatti because they face off back and forth so many times. His like yelling at her in the microphone to get off his stage is so intense and brutal and cruel. And then at the end in front of his sad little piano and we get that insight of, you know, the whole.

53:12Katey: Every what every, you know, failing actor story has. I think he's I think he's so locked in. And I think it is because him and Moore are in every scene together.

53:29Ruth Madeley: Yeah, I definitely think that helps. And like that Mescal didn't have that last year, right? Like he had his whole, he's off on his own. And that maybe hurts him because it's not so much with Jesse. I mean, like, I love him in the movie, but I will say to Ryan's point, and I have him number two. So obviously I think he's very competitive here. but I was surprised that like I was after seeing the movie going into the movie and seeing it at Telluride I was surprised that it was so overwhelmingly for Julianne and that there wasn't as much noise for him just maybe people take him for granted a little bit right because he's like oh he's so good not that they wouldn't also think Julianne Moore is also so good but she's on like another level in this and it's like oh here's Paul again like doing his great Paul stuff but I still hopefully he's safe because I do love him that's fair yeah uh forgive me I've

54:15Erik Anderson: plus track of whose number twos we've done already. Paul Giamatti was my number three. So we're on to the number twos. Eric, I will start with you.

54:24Katey: Giamatti is my number two.

54:25Erik Anderson: Okay, this is your number two. Ryan, I know it's not Paul Giamatti. Who is your number two?

54:29Ryan McQuade: It's Sam Rockwell.

54:30Erik Anderson: It's Sam Rockwell. All right, Chris. Mine's Giamatti.

54:33Ruth Madeley: Yours is Giamatti.

54:34Erik Anderson: All right, we're over to number ones. Okay. God, are the three of you all going to have the same one? Eric, who's your number one?

54:42Katey: The one and only Guitarrica de la Fuente.

54:46Erik Anderson: I had a feeling.

54:48Ruth Madeley: Yep. Yep. Ryan and Chris, do you also have him at number one? No, I have Rockwell at one.

54:53Erik Anderson: You have Rockwell at one. Ryan, who did you have?

54:55Ruth Madeley: I have Keith Rieke at the other one.

54:56Erik Anderson: All right, Awards Watch, tell us, why are you all in on the most beautiful head of hair in the business?

55:03Ryan McQuade: It really is beautiful. I'm not going to lie. It is.

55:06Katey: I actually worry a little bit because of that. There is this. This phrase called slap the stud, which we talk about in in in these, you know, movie conversations about awards, about how older male voters don't like younger, good looking male actors. And sometimes that can work against them. But I think here in the reason I have him at number one is, you know, they made the choice to have everyone go supporting. he could have been pushed in lead. I think he would have had a slightly more difficult time. But I just think you're talking about,

55:50Erik Anderson: I think is much more prominent in best actor also. Correct.

55:53Katey: Yes, it is more. It is more than best actor. So I think this benefits him enormously. But yeah, he has the song. He has the romance. He has kind of everything, the heart of the whole film. and if I think that the Bolognese can win best picture then I have to look are you saying that you do is it hypothetical I'm saying if I think that it can all right then then I also have to believe that an acting performance is going to come with it um and I do feel like even though we saw last year when SAG snubbed every single non-English language performance. Netflix got everybody from Emilia Perez in the, he will get in at SAG.

56:48Katey: So we'll Penelope Cruz and we might even see more. So I, I, I feel like that will be, that will be a good and easy part of his path.

56:59Ryan McQuade: yeah well he's in the he's in the first half of the alphabet so then you can you can change it

57:05Erik Anderson: like some years the bottom half is first and then or in some categories like i feel like it's usually

57:10Ryan McQuade: they hand over the manual and say a you know a through m this is what you're supposed to do

57:16Erik Anderson: yeah i i thought it was too early for the alphabet theory part of the word season oh my god so ryan you're right there with him um you did watch vatarika sing five feet away from you a couple times between now and January.

57:31Ryan McQuade: I think so. I think like, well, first of all, I've had him number one, I think for the last two months, um, on our predictions, I've read awardswatch.com and to Eric's point, like at this point, everything's still up in the air. We're not making like our final predictions yet. And so you have to have multiple paths for things. And there's, you know, if you believe in the odyssey, then I think you believe in like either Matt Damon or Anne Hathaway being super high on your list, Nolan being high, that film's text, all that stuff. And right behind it and all of that in Adapted Screenplay or in the Technical Awards or even Supporting Actress is La Bola Negra.

58:11Ryan McQuade: And so if you want to make the case for La Bola Negra, which I'm not there yet, but I would really love it because I think, well, one, La Bola Negra is my number one film of the year. And I think it's a better film than The Odyssey and a better epic than The Odyssey. but that's beside the point. The point is, is that we're talking about predictions. You have to separate the personal from the predictions. And for me, this feels like a star is born sort of ingenue performance that also plays into the emotional heartstrings of the film that people love so much. He's the, the story that ties all of this together, both, you know, the, the Bola Negra story that we see in the, the fictional account of that story being recreated.

58:53Ryan McQuade: And of course, in the present day, he, his story is, is central with Sebastian. And then of course you have that song that Katie's mentioning that is literally, if you're not, if you don't cry during that moment, like I want to check on you because it's so emotional and so impactful to telling the thesis of the story, which is about these forgotten queer stories and queer men through history and time. And so, yeah if they've got him doing like five different events this week in uh in just a short amount of time at being with different specific people and if everyone's like katie and me and gets like that tractor beam look in his eye he just has to make eye contact with every academy voter and i think he's got time i think he will and i think that he's he's and he's so pleasant and you spoke with him katie i spoke with him he's so so open to talking about the process um if anyone can can break through for the acting categories i actually think it's him more than penelope cruz at this point so um and he's an international global star and you know he's got he's been on a world tour

1:00:01Erik Anderson: performing concerts he's got the energy required to uh he's gonna make it through and the only thing i'll add to this because i i think everything you guys are saying is right and then i saw labola for a second time at middleberg and before i'd gone in i'd said like what if a He gets no acting nominations. Like we know that sometimes with international films, like with Parasite, they can just stop the cast. But seeing it a second time, his performance really did strike me as even better than I remembered. And I think when it's fresh in people's minds and they can kind of come out of that movie, I think he's the last shot of the movie, even though he's only one of the timelines.

1:00:30Erik Anderson: So there's a lot of strength just in the performance right there. In addition to everything else that you're saying, I think. Chris, you have him out of your five. I feel so stupid now. I don't think you're a doubter.

1:00:43Ruth Madeley: I might Chris so homophobic. I can't believe it. No, he believes in only gay villains like Andrew Brown. I'll tell you, they're definitely going to say, even though I have Coleman Domingo in, this is a total tangent, but they're definitely going to be like, you're terrible for not talking about Mike. I'm like, it's the greatest movie in the whole world. But I don't have him in only because I'm just like, it's such a quiet performance. And I worry about that sometimes. But I do think if the movie, like Eric's point is dead on. I feel like Netflix gets in movies at SAG. And so if he gets in at SAG and presumably makes at least a short list or whatever, like long list at BAFTA and maybe gets in there seemingly with six nominees, that would be likely.

1:01:27Ruth Madeley: Then he should really get in. And especially if the movie is so strong. All that makes sense to me. I'm just worried about it being a little quiet. And I also like, this is maybe me, my bias, but I think they're all so good in the movie. Like my favorite performance in the movie is Carlos Gonzalez. And obviously we're not talking about him, but like, man, he's so great. He is great. And like, I'm like, what if people are going to start pulling at that thread where you're like, well, I really liked Carlos or I love Guita Rica or I like Miguel or whatever, kind of like whatever performances you're talking about here.

1:01:56Ruth Madeley: And does that like kind of fix it? That alternative of that is Netflix probably knows this and that's why they're dead laser focused on Guita Rica. Well, that's the Mahershala Lee Moonlight thing, right?

1:02:06Erik Anderson: It's like you kind of like let everyone else take a step back and let your one, your best shot step forward. Well, the conversation of is Lola Duenas the best performance in the movie? We'll save that for the supporting actress episode we do next time. OK, we didn't make our goal to keep this short, but I saved my trolley bomb for the very, very end. And I feel like kind of like a weather forecaster trying to say this isn't what's happening now. This is like a storm that's like forming in the Bahamas. So if you'll bear with me, if the Odyssey comes back super strong, even stronger than what we think is going to be now, someone explain to me why Robert Pattinson is not the prohibitive favorite to win Best Supporting Actor.

1:02:39Erik Anderson: For a villain role in the Best Picture frontrunner, someone who's had an incredible year, so many of the things we have said about other people apply to Robert Pattinson. And I think it would take one thing for him to pop a critic's, pop it at a Critics Award, something else in there. I just don't see why it wouldn't happen. And I kind of want you guys to talk me out of it, which is why I put him at my number one spot. Because it seems so likely to me. Oh, I don't want to talk you out of it. Good, good.

1:03:06Ryan McQuade: No, I mean, we all had him low. I think it's just because we, I think we know based off of narrative and everything that Leguizamo seems to be Universal's maybe like push for that. And he's going to be very vocal. But you're right, Katie. Like Pattinson has had a strong year. That's why I like, I have him hanging around in the six to seven spot for actor too. because I'm like, how does he not, how does this generational actor who is doing five different films this year, four different films through various different genres that is a chameleon and, oh, by the way, has never been nominated when taking risks.

1:03:46Ryan McQuade: Like, no offense, and this is not gonna be, I'm not trying to take a shot at him here, but Ryan Gosling seems to wanna now play the only, like, fun, quirky, kids, film-friendly character after Barbie and Project Hail Mary going forward for the rest of his career. And that's fine. But I like my movie stars to take these risks while also being in these sure things as well. So he can be in primetime and the drama, which are arrests alongside working with Christopher Dolan and Denis Villeneuve in these other films.

1:04:16Erik Anderson: What also like being a real wild character in Dune from everything we can tell. Like it seems risky even in a blockbuster.

1:04:22Ryan McQuade: And then also being the meme of the year in like every film, Like every film, like you see how this looks, right? Or get these beggars out of here. Like he knows how to make a choice with his words and what he's doing on the screen to attract people. The problem is, is that he's a wild man. He doesn't like to do a lot of interviews. But he's so good at them when he does them. No, I know. He's fantastic. He's funny. He's everything that we want. He just doesn't want to like do it. And but if he did want to do it, it wouldn't make sense for either primetime or this probably more so than Dune or the drama.

1:04:58Ryan McQuade: You know what I mean? And so I would love it. I just don't see it happening because I don't know if he's interested in it, which is crazy because he should be because he's I love him. He's my favorite working actor on the male side of things working in cinema right now. and I don't understand why every year he makes choices people say they love those choices and then they don't want to award them so I I Katie congratulations for for shocking me on this wow um I didn't think I didn't so correct I didn't yes I hope you are correct because it would be nice to like you know for him to be an Oscar nominee because it would you know him and Kristen Stewart were told for years that you know that they're not good actors because of these Twilight films and she's got her Oscar nomination now you know and it would be nice for him to be I wouldn't say vindicated because he doesn't need to be vindicated because he's a millionaire and you know he gets to make all these films but it would be like he's made more choices than like most of the people his age and yeah this is great I like to live in this world.

1:06:05Erik Anderson: Great thanks guys anyone else want to validate me in my choices?

1:06:09Ruth Madeley: On paper I mean like on paper it does actually make like he should be like the playing the Downey Jr. part or whatever you want to say in this movie. It's a big hit and all these things. And I don't know. I do think there is a bias against him, seemingly. Ryan is... I still think that's there for him where it's like, even though he's done all these great things and he's done all these risks... Is he old enough to not

1:06:31Erik Anderson: be slap the stud or does that still count, Eric?

1:06:33Ruth Madeley: I want your... Yeah, he's old enough.

1:06:38Ryan McQuade: He turned 40. He's dressed like Christopher Nolan. He looks good.

1:06:43Erik Anderson: He does, but I think he's old enough to not get the... He's not like Timothee Chalamet or whatever, right? He's not like Timothee Chalamet.

1:06:47Katey: Yeah, that's fair. That's really like a, that's a 20s thing. Yeah. Like in your 20s.

1:06:52Ruth Madeley: But with this movie, I guess the other thing is, I agree that like it does seem like, again, on paper, like Wazzamo has all these narrative things going for him and like he'd be the one that they're going to push. But it does remind me a little of, maybe it's like Sean Penn last year where it's like Benicio got all this attention and like people loved him in the movie and like he's great in the movie and got a lot of buzz early in the stages. And then when you got to the televised awards, it was like, and Sean Penn won and the Hollywood just love Sean Penn. He's going to keep winning. And so if Pattinson can get in, I think he's definitely a threat to win.

1:07:21Ruth Madeley: I'm just worried about him getting in. But I love the gumption.

1:07:25Erik Anderson: The Dune's going to be out right at the right time to push this forward. All right. I really thought you guys were going to get mad at me. No, it's great. Because this is why I kind of kicked Rockwell out of my top five.

1:07:33Ryan McQuade: I'm never going to get mad at anyone saying anything about Robert Pattinson and being positive.

1:07:39Erik Anderson: Well, this was a fun way to wrap this up. Guys, I can't believe I thought this could go shorter than it did, honestly. I know. There's too much to talk about.

1:07:47Ruth Madeley: Were we ever so young?

1:07:48Erik Anderson: So you guys, Erica and Erin, you're both part of our Ankler Pundits, and you're also covering all this stuff at Awards Watch all the time, so everyone can go find it there. And then I'll hang on just for a little bit longer before I throw to the interview. I'm talking to Ruth Madeley about being human. We talked about her very briefly in context of Mark Ruffalo. I thought she was delightful to talk to after seeing her in the movie and hearing her real Manchester accent is a thrill for me in the interview. Any other Being Human fans here on this call with me? Chris, I see you raising your hand.

1:08:15Ruth Madeley: I am a fan. I liked it. I thought it was enjoyable. I saw it.

1:08:17Erik Anderson: Yeah. I will take that. I think it is a remarkable performance for her. And she got to get into how it made it possible. So it was a real pleasure. Stick around and listen to that. And in the meantime, Eric and Ryan, thank you so much for joining us.

1:08:30Katey: Thank you. Thank you.

1:08:36Erik Anderson: Okay. So before we started, we were talking about the whirlwind you've been on. I was looking at the photos of you from the Academy Museum Gala, which is just the most gorgeous event. I mean, the clothing was incredible. You looked incredible. I saw you with Taylor Swift. I don't know if that's the most famous person because there's a lot of options.

1:08:52Katey: But I think she's up there, right? I think it's safe to say that Taylor Swift is up there with the most famous. I think so. Yeah. What an incredible event and something that I've dreamt of attending. So, yeah, it was very, very special. and yeah, the dress, the vibe, the room, the atmosphere, everything. It was really, really special.

1:09:14Erik Anderson: Yeah, I mean, you've had premieres for the film, obviously. The Toronto premiere was fantastic, but I wonder if being in an event like that kind of helps sink in the size of what you've made, that it's not just that you made this movie, but these people are aware of it, that you're in this room with these people, that it's got a reach kind of bigger than what you might be able to see.

1:09:29Katey: Yeah, I think it was one of those moments where I was like, oh, this is very different. Now we've started. yeah I mean the premieres have been a dream Toronto was incredible London was incredible we have LA coming up but I guess to be to be in a room like that I think it just kind of it's it is definitely a different level and the awareness that that of why you're there that was that was really special and also to be a disabled person in that space which is so rare. It's very, very cool. And not something I say for granted, but also it feels really timely and very appropriate to be in those rooms.

1:10:17Yeah.

1:10:18Erik Anderson: Well, knowing that this was coming, you know this film's going to have this big Toronto premiere. You've made it. You have kind of a couple months between making it and realizing this is coming. And you've been visible, you've been a campaigner basically your entire life. So I imagine the spotlight isn't new to you, but I wonder if there's a new aspect of being this visible as an actress or kind of having this movie that you put so much into, if it feels different from other really high profile things you've done before?

1:10:40Katey: I mean, this is the most high profile thing I've done. And my aim, my goal, my work has always been to lead a Hollywood movie. That's always been the destination. That's where I've been working towards. So to now have that, but not just have a lead in a Hollywood movie, to have this lead in a Hollywood movie this feels so powerful and um again timely special um yeah it definitely it definitely feels different to things I've done before because because it is different that you're you're exposed to a much wider circle of people um and outlets and you You know, just the events that you attend is very different.

1:11:28Katey: So I just feel so excited and privileged to be here.

1:11:33Erik Anderson: Yeah. Well, and you talked about being in that room at the gala as a disabled person, but you've got this huge cast of disabled people who are right here with you. So it's not you're not in a lot of these events. You're not the only person in the room. You're kind of leading this army and kind of like how Judy Heumann did is how I imagine it.

1:11:47Katey: Very much so. And I know that I'm only in those rooms because of the work that's gone on before me when disabled people have been doing the work but not been able to be in those rooms. I know that I am like standing on the shoulder of giants. So I do, I never feel like I'm there on my own. So that's a really wonderful feeling.

1:12:07Erik Anderson: Yeah. So I was looking at an interview you had done a little while ago, just about kind of the way you stumbled into acting, I think is how you described it, that you studied screenwriting in college and kind of thought that was what you're going to do. And then the first time either you auditioned or were on a set, you were like, why does anybody do this? This is so horrible.

1:12:23Katey: No, that was that way. No, not, not when I was on set. I remember it was in the audition. I was so nervous. And I was like, I was like, why does anyone put themselves through this? This is hideous. But no, I actually, it was when I went on set that I fell in love with the process. Cause I was so, for that first time I stepped on set and I was like so many people here and every single person is working on the same thing. we're all working on the same production doing different jobs but we're all working on the same tv series or movie and that feeling of collaboration and and if one of those elements wasn't there everything falls apart I really loved that sense of um of collaboration and yeah it was when I went on set I was like oh this is where I'm meant to be that was the first time I was I fell in love with it when I got on set but yeah I remember being in the audition room going why does anyone put themselves through this these nerves are hideous yeah have you gotten any less nervous have you gotten over that part of it at all no oh my god I'm always nervous which is which I kind of love yeah I yeah I I'm always nervous I always you know feel like the luckiest person ever to to be in the room in any room on any set I always feel like I've won the lottery so uh the nerves are always there because I'm so passionate about getting it right and doing a good job and I deeply care about what I do and I take it really seriously I don't take myself seriously but I take the job seriously and uh I yeah I I find it really nerve-wracking and I think the day that I don't find it nerve wracking, I should stop.

1:14:06Erik Anderson: Yeah. I mean, with that sense of collaboration that you're finding on a set, I imagine, you know, the work you're doing with WizKids with campaigning for things. There's camaraderie in that, too, obviously. But do you feel like it's different on a set that maybe the goal is more specific or there's an art to it? I wonder if those things sit side by side for you at all.

1:14:23Katey: Yeah. I mean, I think with acting, it's a craft and you learn and develop your craft no matter what job that you're on. I always learn something new from every single actor I work with so that that that collaboration feels really special yeah you have that sense of community and that is when when you're an activist or a campaigner anyway as a disabled person you do have such a beautiful sense of community and and and a fight fight alongside and with people that that feels so special but also as an actor to to collaborate with not just actors, but the director, the writer. I always make friends with the lighting guys because they make you look good on screen.

1:15:09Katey: So I think the collaboration just in general is really, really cool. And with this movie in particular, there was just a beautiful crossover of community, not just as actors on set, but community as disabled people as well.

1:15:24Erik Anderson: Yeah, well, at the Toronto premiere, I think you said to Sean Hader standing on stage like this is the most accessible and collaborative set. Maybe not just for disabled people, maybe that's what you meant, but just that the set specifically stood out for the way that it worked. And I wonder if you could describe more of that.

1:15:38Katey: Yeah, it was designed specifically for that. And access was put in place from the start. It wasn't an afterthought that was stuck on. And that was a benefit to everyone, not just the disabled cast members. It's like the cameras were able to be wheeled up ramps rather than having to be lifted everywhere. And everyone was like, this is great. Why don't we have ramps everywhere? I'm like, I know, right? It's almost like that's what the movie's about is why aren't there ramps everywhere?

1:16:07Erik Anderson: Yeah.

1:16:08Katey: So I think universal design is really a powerful thing and something that I will always advocate for.

1:16:16Erik Anderson: Is that something that you knew was part of it when you agreed to make this? You know, you're signing on as the lead of this film. You have some power, not the ultimate power. But like when you're talking to Sean Hader about doing this, is it kind of saying, all right, but if you have to make this movie stand up for what is on screen?

1:16:29Katey: I mean, look, I didn't have to say a word. Sean was already, you know, very passionate about that. So I I knew it would be done with the most care. And I think Apple were just incredible. It needed Apple to come in and make that. So and they did.

1:16:50Erik Anderson: Yeah. So what were those other conversations between you and Sean? Like, what did you guys feel like you needed to focus on or drill down on?

1:16:56Katey: I mean, to be honest with you, the majority of mine and Sean's work was the work of acting. That really was. It wasn't. I never had a conversation with Sean about how accessible we make the set because look, it was such a privilege and a revolutionary, I guess, to not have to have those conversations because we had an access team. Like sorting out access on a set isn't my job. Like there are trained professionals who can do that, you know, and Apple took that so seriously and did the work. So it was a real privilege and a real relief to when Sian and I worked, it was to talk about acting, finding the character.

1:17:42Katey: It wasn't a conversation about access for me with Sian.

1:17:45Erik Anderson: What do you look for from a director for finding the character? Like where can a director step in and help you there?

1:17:50Katey: I mean, I'm one of my favorite jobs as parts of being an actor is the collaboration with the director. I find that relationship really unique and sacred. And Sian and I really got each other. We just clicked and we were able to, I guess, because Judy wasn't with us anymore and we couldn't ask her any more questions. It was a really beautiful process of kind of like investigating and digging and finding things, finding these little gems in each scene, finding the truth of what she might have been feeling and how my experience as a disabled person can be fed into that. And it was that process was it was it was ever changing.

1:18:37It was it was never, OK, this is who Judy is.

1:18:40Katey: Let's go and make the movie. It was it was we found things throughout the whole thing from before we started shooting right up until the day that we finished.

1:18:48Erik Anderson: Yeah. Yeah. How do you work that process of you bringing yourself, bringing your own experience? Yeah. This character is obviously invaluable, but you know that there's this real person who's here. You're not the same person as her. Where do you know the line between those things?

1:18:59Katey: I mean, I know that sometimes an accent helps. Like I was in an accent for three months and to come away from that, be able to go back to my apartment and then use my own voice, that instantly kind of breaks you away from everything. but there are some especially as a disabled person that there are so many shared experiences that you kind of you do kind of carry a lot of that with you but I am pretty good at switching off like I'm not somebody who um who gets too stuck into it that it becomes a problem I'm quite good at kind of switching out but for this one in particular for this job in particular I found the accent really helped because Sian wanted me to stay in the accent literally from all the way through the day, like breaks, lunch break, you know, it was always with the accent because it was just, it was so much easier to stay in it and embody it and fuse those muscles rather than break away and then come back into it just when we were doing scenes.

1:20:02Katey: Um, so that was like a mental switch, a psychological switch that, that once the day was done, use my own accent. You get to be yourself again. Yeah. But I mean, with Judy, she was such a multifaceted person. And there were so many beautiful layers to her that I could really access all those different parts of her. Yeah. And really find my own alignment with that. But also, you know, we were different people. And I would love to have... yeah I think she was a lot tougher I'm pretty tough but I think that Judy was was was like I

1:20:45Erik Anderson: think she definitely is much tougher than me well I'd seen you describe yourself as even since you were a child it's like stubborn and determined has been one of the main which seems very human

1:20:53Katey: to me yeah yeah she yeah she was I think that I think both of us having disabilities from you know being tiny I think growing up having that and wanting an education and seeing a mom who fights for you all the time um that that was on just on the very surface level it's like oh I get that yeah I'm that I'm that too and I think as a disabled person sometimes you do have to develop such a hugely thick skin and a unwillingness to relent like there's just no way I'm like a dog with a bone most of the time. So, but yeah, I think she, but in other places, I feel like I'm like a marshmallow compared to her.

1:21:42She was, yeah, her grit

1:21:44Katey: was something next level and thank goodness it was or else we wouldn't have, she wouldn't have got the changes made that she did.

1:21:50Erik Anderson: Yeah, I mean, the leadership ability that she has in this movie, the willingness to stick with it and rally people to her cause is so incredibly powerful. And obviously your job is not the same. You're on a set with a director, but I think as the star of a film, you do have a leadership job in some way. And I'm wondering how that worked for you.

1:22:06Katey: Yeah, I mean, to be number one on any call sheet is a huge responsibility. And then for me to have it at this level, I felt a huge, huge sense of responsibility, but also privilege to be able to be that person who can often determine like the mood of the set that day and be aware of your cast mates around you. Yeah. And because I was perhaps more experienced than a lot of the other actors, to be able to pass on any advice or guidance, that was really meant a lot to me because I was so often in my career the only disabled person there. So it was nice to be able to share some of my experience or any kind of guidance with other people who were a little bit unsure

1:23:06Erik Anderson: of what they could ask for

1:23:08Katey: and what was okay, you know?

1:23:11Erik Anderson: Yeah.

1:23:11Katey: And just help people realize they have the permission and freedom to ask for those things.

1:23:17Erik Anderson: Yeah.

1:23:17Katey: Even in a movie about asking for those things,

1:23:20Erik Anderson: you still have that.

1:23:22Katey: Yeah, the hesitation is so often there because access sometimes is seen as a request rather than a right.

1:23:32Erik Anderson: Mm hmm.

1:23:34Katey: And so people often worry about asking for access because they feel that that that it will be. What word am I looking for? They feel like it will be contractual. Oh, sure. You know, rather than rather than no, it should just be there. Yeah. Yeah. So that that that was I'm very I love leading a movie or a TV series or whatever. I think it's it is such a privilege, but it is it's hard work. It's hard work. Literally, you're the last you first you're often first one there, last one leaving. Yeah.

1:24:11Erik Anderson: And if you like want to go sit in your trailer for a while, then that says something in a way that it doesn't. If you're, you know, 10th on the call sheet, you know, people are looking at you in a way that they're not otherwise.

1:24:20Katey: Exactly, which is, again, it's a privilege to have that responsibility to be trusted with that role. Yeah. Is really, really special.

1:24:34Erik Anderson: Well, I don't know how much visibility you had into the casting process once you were doing this. I mean, so much of the joy of this movie is seeing faces that I'd never seen before. Yeah, right. I'm not sure how much they've worked before. You're not the casting director, but how much insight or input into any of that did you have?

1:24:48Katey: I mean, I mean, they're the Telsey's. Nobody needed my two cents thrown in there for casting. But yeah, I think the Telsey's did that they were they were incredible. They did the work. They did the digging and finding and the mining for these very specific people. because it wasn't just, oh, we're filling a character. We want to find someone like the person. You know, it was very different. And I know that was important to Sian. So, but from an acting perspective, I was just really excited to work with actors I hadn't worked with before.

1:25:27Erik Anderson: Yeah.

1:25:28Katey: And I'm excited to see what they do next.

1:25:31Erik Anderson: And just building some of the funniest stuff that you don't necessarily see coming. Like, I feel like everyone in this movie is funny, even if they're not playing a funny character. I know.

1:25:39Katey: There's so much humor built in this. Which is such a revolutionary thing, shockingly, isn't it, right? Because so many people think that disability is really sad and painful and traumatic, and it can be all of those things, but there's also so much joy in that community as well. And I think that that was really important to Sian to show those beautiful moments of community and joy and collaboration and humor. I think yeah that that's been a really common bit of feedback that we've had that oh my god it's really funny I'm like yeah disabled people can be funny well and you can do really important

1:26:16Erik Anderson: valuable work and be funny and have a really good time in the process which is exactly it makes you want to be an activist and like absolutely on a federal building or something absolutely I'm like

1:26:27Katey: they had a great time in there so a lot of the time yeah well I think you were if your character

1:26:32Erik Anderson: in years and years that you've talked about as like being like sexual and having that aspect of her personality and how incredibly important that felt for you with that character and then you know being human has the sex tent which I understand was a real place and it's such a key element of this and um I don't know if you read the script and you're like wow they really listened when I

1:26:50Katey: said I wanted more sexual disabled characters I think that that would have been like Judy was a sexual person and so I think people often assume that disability kind of negates intimacy and sexuality and it really doesn't it's intimacy in whatever form is part of life and that doesn't disappear when you put disability into the mix and that was really important to Sian and and you know that I think that no one needed me to say a word that was already always always going to be in there and to show those moments of of intimacy and sexuality especially between a disabled woman non-disabled man you know that all of those things i don't think you see enough of i don't think you see intimacy and disability enough yeah well there's also just nothing more

1:27:48Erik Anderson: romantic than like you've like tucked your way in a corner and you're with the guy you got a crush Sean like there's something so palpable again that's credit to Sean for directing it but also you guys having that like you know the like when are they finally gonna kiss feeling in a movie

1:28:00Katey: it's like my favorite thing me too I mean although Sean could not have picked anybody taller I'm just saying but also so beautiful I mean and John John Beavers is is is is such a dream to work with as well a real so collaborative so respectful um and I know that that scene and that that thread of of intimacy and sexuality throughout the film. I know that that means a lot to so many people.

1:28:26Erik Anderson: Yeah. Well, it just, again, means a lot to us. We just want characters to kiss and have a good time. That's no matter who you are. We've seen more of it out there. So, okay. So you've got this background training, studying screenwriting before acting comes and takes you over. It sounds like writing is, is in the mix for you still. It's not just acting.

1:28:42Katey: For me, like it's art and whether that's storytelling, acting is just another form of storytelling. So writing, acting, music, paint or whatever, it doesn't matter to me. Art is beautiful and it should be accessible to everybody. It is accessible to everybody. You know, it can be. But yeah, writing is still very much something that I'm doing and enjoying and developing.

1:29:10Erik Anderson: It's not just focus on acting for now and doing writing later. Like they're in tandem.

1:29:14Katey: It has been like that for the past like 10 years. It's like, it's been more like, oh, I better ride this acting wave while it's here. It'll be over tomorrow. But I'm very, very lucky that it doesn't seem to be, it doesn't seem to be ending. It just seems to be getting bigger and better, which is great. And now I'm feeding writing back into my work. And I do feel that each makes the other one better. So I feel like acting makes me a better writer. And I think that writing makes me a better actor. So they seem to be complementing each other very, very well.

1:29:48Erik Anderson: Well, now that you know you can master Judy's very specific accent, like I feel like you're going all over the world now.

1:29:54Katey: People know you can do that. Such a specific accent. And it was, I think that was so challenging from an acting perspective about the specificity of her accent depending on who she was talking to. Yeah, the code switching thing for sure. And the way that she would speak when she was in front of cameras or speaking to people, figures of influence and positions of power versus when she's talking to her friends, you know, in the building. So those were all tiny little things that I wanted to make sure I really nailed in the performance.

1:30:34Erik Anderson: Does your accent do that too?

1:30:36Katey: Mine definitely does. Yeah, like literally if people were from Manchester here, they were like, but no, and I think that changes everything. And I very much wanted to, you know, demonstrate that in the performance. But I think language and voice and accent, all of those things are really challenging as an actor. And I remember when I was learning ASL, because Judy, of course, she was great at everything. She was great at ASL as well. So I remember because ASL isn't designed to have speech as well. So when I was speaking and signing, I had to, first of all, I was like, I have to say something in an accent that's not mine and also make it look like I'm fluent in this additional language.

1:31:29Katey: And my brain hurts. And do them at the same time, which is crazy. Yeah, it's so hard. But also, yeah, it's such a really wonderful sense of achievement when I got it right. And I was very, very passionate about getting that right because I'm very aware I'm not part of the deaf community. So, yeah, I took that very, very, learning all of that very seriously.

1:31:53Erik Anderson: Yeah. Well, again, now that people know that you can do this, you're going to get asked to do all kinds of crazy languages and accents. Oh, my goodness. Can you imagine? I wonder what's next. No telling. That does it for today's episode. This podcast is edited by Brett Fox and produced by Brett Fox and me. Our theme music is by Dave Gonzalez. Subscribe to the Prestige Junkie newsletter at theankler.com and subscribe to this podcast on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Don't forget there's a video version that you should watch if you're not already. We'll see you next week.