Oscar History Lessons with Joyce Eng, Plus Phil Lord and Chris Miller on Project Hail Mary

0:00The 15th Annual Montclair Film Festival, presented by Volvo Car USA, takes place October 16th through the 25th, featuring over 160 films and events, including celebrity guests and the season's most talked about films. Discover the full schedule and purchase tickets at festival.montclairfilm.org. But I was like, what if Indy Navarrete is Jennifer Lopez and Hustlers? and it's just like totally fake, a fake, like not materializing. A mirage. A mirage and she doesn't show up.

0:36Hi everyone, I'm Katie Rich. This is the Prestige Junkie Podcast and today it is time to go super Oscar nerdy with one of our favorite people to go Oscar nerdy with. I am joined as always by my colleague, Chris Rosen. Hello, Chris. Thanks for being here. Hi Katie, how's it going? So psyched. And bringing back one of our all-time favorite guests, Entertainment Weekly's Joyce Ng, also of the Awardist podcast. Hello, Joyce. Let's talk about Oscar season. We've been waiting for this all year. Thank you so much for having me back. One of the bright spots of my year, of the season. So it's an honor.

1:08Absolutely the same. We're going to do something we did last year on Prestige Junkie After Party and do what we're calling historical comps for this year's Oscar race. because this is what Oscar nerds do. We say, hey, this campaign is reminding me a whole lot of this other movie or the way to know what's going to happen with this is to look back at 1965, which is something I'm actually going to do in a little bit. We're going to talk about what history can tell us about this year's Oscar race and maybe some surprises therein. After you hear me and Chris and Joyce get into all of that, you'll hear my conversation with Phil Lord and Chris Miller, the directors of one of my favorite Oscar contenders this year, something I'm sure we'll be talking about, Project Hail Mary.

1:44All of that coming up. Welcome to the show. So, Joyce, we brought you back to do the same thing we did last year. I didn't really go back and listen to much of our historical comps. I remember your take that Hamnet was giving Killers of the Flower Moon, which turned out to be a pretty good prediction. Except for Jessie. It's true, but the vibes, I think, were correct. But I think I did say that. It was outside of Jessie. Because I think at that point, we knew that she was going to win that Oscar no matter what. Did you find that exercise useful last year? And do you feel like it's simple enough to do it again this year?

2:18Yeah. I mean, I think, like you said, everyone does it naturally because this is all just a guessing game. That's all predictions is. We don't know anything. No one knows anything. It's important to remember that because some people seem to think they do. Yeah. And we don't have any data yet because no one's won any awards. No one's been nominated for anything. So all we can do at this juncture is just to look at past data. and try to comfort ourselves and make ourselves feel better, especially if we're standing something or hope-dicting something, that this is the path for our fave. Or if we hate something and are anti-dicting something, this is why this is not going to work out for Digger.

2:57Yeah. Oh, wow. You just really said the quiet part loud about what you're anti-dicting in this conversation. I didn't say I was anti-dicting. I just know a lot of people are doing that. I think we're going to start with Digger, but I want to go to you first, Chris, because your like glorious take last year was that one battle after another was Paul Thomas Anderson's The Departed, which was right on the money. Do you have anything good that good up your sleeve this year? No, I don't think so at all. I think what Joy said there is exactly right because like we are totally flying blind. Like we and we all are talking to the same people, right?

3:29It's like we're all talking to the same publicists and the same people doing the predicting. So it's like it's an echo chamber. And then we get to these like awards like when we're going to see like where rubber meets the road and you're like oh this is actually what's happening so it's like you really are at this point it's like specifically when the industry chimes in because like speaking of one battle like last year's like we're all about bdt like benicio and then and like especially online the very online people are like anti sean penn because reasons but the industry's like i don't give a fuck like an extremely every single award and like this is the time of year where we completely forget all the lessons we learned from that being like well everyone online like hates digger it's a bubble everyone is trying to bring digger back and you're like the reality is going to reveal itself to you in mid-january and really no sooner and until then you're just guessing which is the fun of it and also makes you totally insane um we should start with digger because as we're recording this it is the movie that everyone is still talking about even though nobody saw um which might have been predictable i think it kind of bombed harder than a lot of us thought it would.

4:33But I think, Chris, when you and I had the best actor conversation a couple of weeks ago, the early word was kind of murmuring around on Digger and I was feeling pretty down on Tom Cruise. And now the backlash to the backlash has started. There will be another cycle of it in the future. It feels like a really open question of which direction it can go. So I wonder if either of you has a Digger historical comp that predicts the future of what's going to happen here. I have multiple Digger comps. Oh, my God. Okay. We're going to go to you. Joyce, you have thought this through. Please, please kick us off.

5:00Well, after Chris and I saw it at the screening, like one of my first comps was like, it could be this year's Smashing Machine. Like a Best Actor play, presumably, but then it floundered and it just got the makeup nomination. Right. And it's Kazuhiro. Who did the makeup for Digger? Is it Kazuhiro? Oh, my God. He's just the one guy who just makes those transformations happen. Yeah. He's the guy. Yeah. Um, and R.I.P. Warner Brothers, but it also just has, like, a feeling of, like, being, uh, you know, a misfire, like Joker 2. Mm-hmm. You know? Um, I do think Digger can get below the line stuff, like, makeup and, like, maybe production design, too.

5:46Um, I think it's, I know Chris has a different take above the line, but I do think it's in play for Tom Cruise above the line. Yeah. Maybe not Best Picture. But speaking of Tom, it could be like Blonde, you know, which was reviled, especially online and like obviously pans critically, but still got Ana de Armas nominated. Granted, she was playing Marilyn Monroe. Not Digger Rockwell, that character we all know and love. The iconic oil tycoon, Digger Rockwell. I mean, great name. It is a great name. And then, I mean, you know, in the last, as we're recording this, the last couple hours, Digger could also be like to Leslie and Tom Cruise could be like Andrea Risborough because the Digger hive is coming through of A-listers and blue checks and Hathaway on Letterboxd.

6:41His Days of Heaven 2 stars. Days of Heaven. Days of Thunder. She has skin in the skin. I'm sorry. God. I wish it was Days of Heaven. It would be great if it was Days of Heaven 2. It really would be. That's next. Yeah, I mean, you could say, you know, Anne knows which side like that truck is buttered. So she had to do that, even though she evaporated in a plume of smoke, you know, I mean, she's gonna come back on Letterboxd to do this review. She's gonna go have that baby and be firing up takes on Letterboxd. I didn't know she was on Letterboxd. This is a great way for me to learn this. She apparently created an account months ago, but never wrote a review until now.

7:10So Digger's her first one. Sure. And then Jane Fonda's Instagram post, you know, just raving. She missed, like a lot of people, misspelled Jesse Plemons, but, you know. Puts some respect on his name, Jane Fonda. And then Mandy Patinkin weighed in. Yeah, Mandy Patinkin on TikTok. Great. Yeah, the Too Leslie thing for Digger is so completely insane because the whole thing about Too Leslie is a small movie with a big heart. This Digger is an enormous movie. feel like I thought that more of the Joker folia to like stink bomb everyone wants to run away from this as fast as possible was going to be more of the effect of this um but Chris I think you you threw out the two Leslie comp when we were talking before this so why is Digger getting this treatment I think because like we could people haven't seen it but I'm just going to spoil it I think the idea that he's playing I'm spoiling Digger if you haven't watched it yet like I mean it's out you live in the world I think that fact that he's playing an actor who is like in the movie.

8:06You know what I mean? Like, I do think that really matters. I just do. I think that like that is why performers are responding to because it really does speak to the idea of what they are hoping to achieve with performance. And like, I just find all of that, like really, that is what separates it from like Joker Foley and Do to me. And I just think that the actors are going to respond to it. There was an idea, certainly I think, where it was like, if Tom is going to get nominated, he would have to win and it would have to be best picture. This was like maybe like a couple, maybe like a month ago, right?

8:35Before people started seeing it. And like maybe Tom would be like, and if it just flops, like he's like Samuel Jackson from Piano Lesson or any number of like front runners from the summer who end up not even getting nominated. But I do think the idea of the movie will really speak to the Hollywood community. And then on top of all that, where you have like these luminaries like saying how great it is and how Tom is great. I think the fact that people don't like it so much is a feature and I do think in the industry that's going to be like they don't like being told what to like 100 and I think the idea that it's the last Warner Brothers movie really and that Mike and Pam are not at Warner Brothers anymore not that like I just think all of it's put together it's like a protest vote too uh-huh and like I don't think it's gonna get Leslie thing was too like I don't let them tell you what not to pay attention to and i i don't think like i don't think it would get in for best picture just because it's so polarizing i could it like it certainly could we've seen like unliked movies get in for best picture but i do think that below the line stuff and cruise it kind of stands out now to me and on that best actor list because it's just like what a weird performance and playing an actor i don't know i'm like i'm like still weighing on it i don't it almost feels like kind of cool and like rebellious that they spent they literally just burned 250 million dollars on this un unmarketable art film that no one likes yeah that is like the dream digger didn't kill the studio like you can imagine like in 50 years of being like wow i guess digger really sang horner brothers like they're not related but it does they're gonna make a play about that so yeah they probably are we'll all be wearing our gas masks to level fossil fools to go in and see the play.

10:20That's like maybe the one good joke in the movie. I mean, like, that's a great title. It is. They should make a playbills. I would actually watch that. Well, you know how they made the fake playbills for Nosy Neighbors for the debut? They should make one for Fossil Fools for it. We might get that in the mail in the next two months. Yeah, that's true. I think the Cruz question, I don't want to, like, diverge too far and just talk about Tom Cruise, but, like, the actor's branch unpredictability is kind of the question here, and I've been thinking about the international effect of it. I would imagine internationally Digger is less interesting.

10:50Maybe it's more. Maybe they like love making fun of Americans so much. I mean, it didn't do well internationally either. Yeah. So I'm curious. Like I imagine the acting branch being more local than like the director's branch or something like that. So I'm just curious how much that to Leslie style, like all the luminaries rallying around their guy effect can still have an impact in the acting race. The International Academy. I think like, well, I mean, to get the nomination, he just needs number ones. Right. because it's preferential for the ranking, for the nomination phase. And so he can get enough number ones and meet the threshold because it's only like 100-something.

11:26God, that's so sweet. That's how you guys broke on it, right? That was it. And so he just needs... He's got three right now, right? Anne Hathaway, Jane Fonda, Manning Patinkin. Assuming they'll actually put their money where their mouths are. That's true. Well, there's months to go still. Like having this kind of like, we're all rallying around you thing now. Yeah, because like to Leslie was happening in January. Yeah, exactly. Like this is like, you know, the weekend or like the week following opening weekend. So like, I think like he can get the number ones again. It just really depends on how the race shakes out over the next couple months.

12:02And we see like who's actually in and out of those like 12 contenders that, you know, we're all looking at. And I don't know, because like, I think like, you know, like when this movie was first announced, like a year and a half ago, whatever, everyone was like, oh, like, this is gonna be it for him. He's like out of like franchise IP stuff. He's working with an auteur. And, you know, like people were penciling him in for the win and he gets the honorary Oscar. And it's like, also like, do people actually like, like want him to win? This is a great question. I think like publicly, we all think that, but like he couldn't even get a SAG nomination for Top Gun Maverick in a very week year like they nominated Adam Sandler over him for that and that was like a very open spot for him to get in just as a filler nom like you know he hasn't been nominated for for a movie um released for acting for a movie released in the century yeah Magnolia was the last one Magnolia yeah um I like I don't think he'll get into SAG just because like it's way too divisive for SAG okay so then what's his path to nominations right like he can get globe I like that's not industry like globe and critics choice are not industry but i think he'd get those so that like that gives like the visibility for him like bafta like i don't i don't know that's what i'm gonna be watching like he's got him like we remember like in terms of like a-list snubs it's a different movie but i was like we knew angelina jolie was like dead in the water her campaign when she missed like the bafta long list for uh maria right and it was like oh this is bad like and then she's just done yeah and like if that happens to tom cruise i would be like you know good night i think because like the sag word's not actor or it's not happening yeah that's not like he i don't think he would have the popular vote for bafta so he'd need to depend on the jury to save him oh that seems like a lot to ask about although you know maria got that soul craft nomination so that could be diggers pad get that makeup uh in there and uh and call it there yeah um i i when i was looking at comps i wind up on the best actor race a lot because i'm just i think it's a fascinating lineup this year and i guess i'll throw out something that i've been thinking about which i think chris you're the person who told me about this stat that forest whitaker is the last person to win best actor as a sole nominee for his movie and we've been thinking about that in terms of andrew scott like what if elsinore is a sole nomination um but i also kind of threw it out like what if john turturro is forest whitaker this year and he gets in for the only living pickpocket in New York.

14:29I have him in currently. I do, too. I mean, I think Ethan Hawke is, of course, the logical comp for that as you from Blue Moon last year. He gets that nomination from Sony Classics. But I just I think the Forrest Whitaker thing is interesting, I think, in this kind of pile up of big stars and big movies like something like that could go through. I don't remember 2006 that well. You guys might better than me. It felt like Forrest Whitaker was kind of anointed from the beginning. He dominated. It was just him and Hal Amir and all the way. Yeah, so it's not going to be quite that situation. But I wonder if you guys had other comps in the Best Actor race that kind of tell me where you're thinking.

15:02Chris, I'll go to you. I'll just stick with Ryan Gosling as Margot Robbie. I'll stick with that one. Oh, I had him that too. I had Project Hail Mary as Barbie. Yeah, I think that's going to end up what it is too. I think overall the movie, but there's no America Ferrara or Ryan Gosling, unfortunately, in the supporting categories. I thought we thought Sandra Huller was going to be America Ferrara. It could be America Ferrara. And I still think she could get in. Yeah. But it's not like she doesn't have like a speech. Right. She has this song, which I think is helpful. I think singing Sign of the Times is like a great moment in the movie.

15:35And she's like the heart. Is she the heart and soul of the movie or is it the alien? Who knows? It's the alien. It's Rocky. That's okay. But yeah, no, I think Ryan Gosling is Margot Robbie. I just think like, unfortunately, he's almost under, like, there's nothing. He's great in the movie. It's like, it's still one of my favorite movies the whole year. And I love Ryan Gosling, like truly. and deeply. But I just think it's like so similar to like stuff we've seen him do recently that it's not going to like generate a lot of like got to put him number one. And I think if he's like four or five, that's going to like knock him out.

16:04So I'll do Margot Robbie comp for him, which we did last year, I think, for Michael B. Jordan. We see how that worked. And then we were 100%. So whatever. Yeah. I mean, why wouldn't I mean, my kind of grand unifying theory is that this year is 2015 and I can go down a real rabbit hole there. But why wouldn't Project Hail Mary be the Martian? Not a Best Picture winner. So you're saying he's going to miss SAG and get nominated. Sure. Although he does seem like more likely to be in for SAG. You know, I was going back and looking at the Globes where Matt Damon wins that Globe for comedy. We don't I don't think they've announced where they're putting Project O'Meara.

16:34I would very much hope they would put it in comedy. I think the comedy actor race is more competitive this year. But if Ryan Gosling is Matt Damon in The Martian and Matt Damon, we can talk about what his comes might be. I just don't see why it wouldn't be more of a one to one for that. I guess I just think that that year was just so much weak. I mean, if you look at the best actor race that year. It was Leo's. Really weak, right? Like it's like Bryan Cranston for Trumbo. Okay, maybe that's like John Turturro, right? Like that's kind of coded like that maybe a little, even though I think Pickpocket's much better than Trumbo.

17:04Yeah, Fassbender for Steve Jobs. Sure, we could pick one of these biopic transformations where maybe he's like Andrew Scott or something. Oh no, he's in Supporting Never. And then like Eddie Redmayne for Danish Girl. It's just like, this is a real weak field. And so like, even got in for concussion at the Globes. I just learned that. So like in a different year, I think Ryan Gosling would get in, but I just think this year it's too competitive. Like the it's it's the quote blockbuster performance, but that's not the only one in contention. Like Matt is Matt is right there. Yeah. For the best picture front runner, you know.

17:34And yeah, I just I don't really see him getting loud. Number one. Like, I think he'll hit precursors like he did. Like he might hit everything and then just miss Oscar. so who wait Joyce who's in your best actor five then right now I can look it up on inklerpundits.com but I can't just ask you oh is that live yeah inklerpundits go right now see all of our I just updated um I saw Wicker and put it in my makeup list uh yeah I mean Wicker should be nominated for makeup that's a separate podcast um I have like the consensus three obviously the the trio who've played Tom Ripley yes um Matt uh John and Andrew and I have John Turturro like I said and then I have Anthony Polito Wow Joyce you went Anthony and Polito?

18:17I played it for a couple weeks it was like was I talking to you about this like I was like debating between him and Jafar Jackson sure oh man you went for the newcomers yeah I did so I just feel like I mean there's like a world where I think like both of them can get in for their biopics their basic biopics yeah but right now I just went with one of them so I haven't seen I play Rocky yet so I need to see the light of Anthony and Polito it's great you know it must be great if I love it obviously right like most things and then you change your mind like well I didn't put Anthony and Polito in yet but I have Tom I have the same like Tom Cruise in and Totoro so like I'm still going on Cruise we all have the same thing except I have Ryan Gosling instead of Tom Cruise or Anthony and Polito so there's not a for a race that still feels super competitive There isn't actually as much wiggle room between us as I thought there would be, which is interesting.

19:13So my other like granular defining theory is that it's not necessarily 2015, but that the Odyssey is Lawrence of Arabia, which means that it goes and wins everything. But Matt Damon doesn't win. I don't know what's going to happen in supporting. We can talk about that. But, you know, Robert Pattinson or Anne Hathaway winning does feel like enough of a strong possibility that it probably won't turn out. But I do think Matt Damon being Peter O'Toole in Lawrence of Arabia is a solid comp for what I think is going to happen in that race. But who is Gregory Peck then? Is it Andrew Scott or John Malkovich?

19:44That's the question I asked myself in like August before I saw any of these movies. And I think it has remained true. I mean, Peter O'Toole was a newcomer for Lawrence of Arabia, so it's not quite true there. And I think Damon is still a strong contender because he's such an icon of the industry and doesn't have an acting Oscar. but I could absolutely see the Odyssey winning picture director, you know, five other awards and Matt Damon somehow blanking, which would be a real shame, but that's the, that's the race this year. I have a comp for the Odyssey. Okay. I think the Odyssey is Saving Private Ryan.

20:16I think. I mean, I think we talked about this a couple months ago. This is Joyce's favorite movie Saving Private Ryan. One of her favorite movies. And I know, I just think like when I talk to people about the Odyssey, I just remain steadfast in this and it's all anecdotal. Hey, it's great, but, or like, I liked it. You know, there just doesn't feel like there's a lot of that return passion. It's like you, like, I mean, I feel the same way. Like, I prefer Opi to the Odyssey, although I've met a few people who prefer Odyssey to Opi. And I was like, who are you? They love Trojan horses. I guess they do.

20:51Yeah, like, I think there's like, you know, like, nothing wrong with the Odyssey, right? And it's like something you really respect. And it hasn't bounced back yet. Like, they're going to come back around in a way. Right. This is, it's mimicking Oppie right now, obviously, because they both released in July. And it's in a lull right now while like all the fall movies are premiering and like they're just taking all the oxygen, which is great because it's like it takes the target off Odyssey's back, even though everyone knows it's a front runner. But it's not front of mind, you know, and then it could come back in at the end of the year when like everyone starts announcing stuff.

21:23When Anne Hathaway's done with her maternity leave and can go back on the press store. Exactly. So, yeah, like, I can see it, like, losing. Yeah, I think we did talk about this last time. Like, I could see it, like, winning director, right? Like, I really don't see anyone beating Nolan. So. Right. And it's so, splits are, like, really not as common as you think or as we want. And, like, it does feel like that's less and less common. But if there ever was going to be a year where I think there is a split, like, Nolan, it's, like, so far ahead. But the movie, I think, could get snuck up on. And I don't know what the Shakespeare in Love is.

21:53that's the other part of that Shakespeare in Love because I think like last time you talked about like Coda and Power of the Dog so like obviously Odyssey is not Power of the Dog so you need something like small like a small movie a big card like Coda or like Digger Digger or you know something you know without Harvey Weinstein but like Harvey Weinstein has backing like Shakespeare in Love something that has that like Blitzkrieg power because like part of the thing about Shakespeare in Love is that no one really realized they were being wooed away from Saving Private Ryan until all of a sudden it didn't happen.

22:26I love Shakespeare in Love. I am also going to win. It's so good. People don't believe me when I say I'm not angry that it won. No, it's so good. Elsinore, I don't think, has what it takes to be Shakespeare in Love. I like that movie a lot, but I don't think it's there. It's not uplifting Shakespeare in Love. If we're looking at this race, Elsinore, to me, is Life is Beautiful, and then Andrew is Roberto Benigni, because I just think it's beautiful. People really responded to it emotionally. but he's not gonna campaign the way i don't know i think andrew scott's gonna be at every thing he's not gonna jump up on the seats when he wins he doesn't have that personality thank god i don't think we can do that again so i don't know what could be i i truly like we'll see i i don't like la bola negra is like not it to me if we're talking about shakespeare in love because it's so it's very obviously like it's very yeah and netflix says number one right bp so but i do Yeah, it's really good at getting nominations, but not converting them into wins, especially above the line.

23:24And all of their above the line winners so far have been sweepers. And I don't think La Bolla Negra is going to sweep. Yeah, I mean, we've talked about this so many times, but Project Hail Mary, La Bolla Negra, probably Dune 3, all of these are in this like in the same space as the Odyssey thing. And nothing is quite occupying. Like Wild Horse 9, I think, is the closest thing to occupying like a different lane. But I'm just not sure. I love that movie, but I'm not sure it's going to be as universally loved. I hope it doesn't go home empty-handed like Banshee's, Evan and Sharon. Yeah. That's my only hope.

23:53Well, no, on this podcast, we believe that Colin Farrell had won that Oscar. That's the alternate history that we're... What is the whale comp this year? Elsinore, right? And then my other deeper thing for that was... How dare you, Chris? Well, I love... I really liked Elsinore, and I don't love the whale. But I think the Elsinore whale comp is, to me, like Olivia Colman, then, or Billy Piper, or Hong Chao, right where they're just dragged through with andrew yeah and i kind of and then i was also i do have a really hard time filling out supporting actresses really interesting race i'll give you another one a couple of supporting actresses a i was like what if olivia coleman is like the hong chow of this and just kind of brings along with andrew alternate is it's not a great it's not a perfect comp but what if billy piper ends up being like judy dench in belfast and and olivia is katrina boff where you're like oh of course it's going to be that one and then it's like the billy piper one gets except it's like the opposite you need to assume that olivia's hitting everything i know in the runoff yeah but also like that's a veteran taking it from a young person it doesn't mean i mean i'd be i think it's great nelson or i would be the last one i have and again it's not a perfect comp but i could see this because we were saying like we've talked a lot about how best actress is like obviously very wide open and there's like it feels like there's a lot of flexibility there beyond julianne moore you could fill out any number of four other people behind her and supporting actors were like and at the top probably samantha morton maybe one or two penelope cruz maybe sandra hula but it also feels like really like deep and weird where you're not sure where they're gonna go yeah and i was like what if merit weaver is like brian tyree henry for merit weaver for prime time where it's like that movie i don't think it's gonna go anywhere but it's like she's so good in it and i think people really love her in the industry and what if she just is like sneaks in as a fifth She's an Emmy queen.

25:40What if that's Cato Flynn for Tinder to Living Care? Okay, or that. Really sane theory of sneaking in for a movie that's not going to get anything otherwise. I would rather that than Penelope Cruz twice. I do not have Penelope twice. I think that's really... Her role in La Boliniga is very fun, but it's just a real big bridge to cross. I think it's just harder to do than people are expecting it to be. I'm going through our pundits page. There's some real flyers in the supporting actress. Eric Anderson has Esme Creed Miles for Sense and Sensibility, a movie I haven't seen. Christina Biro has Tao Okamoto for...

26:19I have her, too, because I needed a body. I love that movie. I would be delighted to see that happen. Who are some others? Scarlett Johansson from Paper Tiger, coming from Greg Elwood. Paper Tiger. Let's see. Who's called it? Tyler Coates also has Merit Weaver, Chris. So you're not on an island by yourself. Mariana DeGirolamo from Joyce, Chris's favorite interview of all time. I loved her. She was great. Do you feel good about that at this point, Joyce? I don't know. But I just, I hope. Gave it a shot. Yeah. She's so good in it. I don't know. She is really good in it. I'm hoping maybe she can be like Carrie Condon.

26:57Yes, it's not quite as big a role. Yeah. Actually, I have her in mine as well. So we're on the same page there. Chris, you mentioned Julianne Moore, and I had two Julianne Moore-related thoughts. So I think I agree with you that Primetime is not quite strong enough to get Pattinson in, but what if Pattinson is a double nominee for Primetime and The Odyssey, but then he's Julianne Moore in 2002 and doesn't get in for either of them? He has a big Oscar breakthrough and then loses both nominations. I can see it. Maybe. But then he'll be considered overdue and win for his Still Alice a decade later.

27:30What is Pattinson's Still Alice? the Batman the Batman 4 when they finally get that one made the other Julianne Moore thought I had and this is a flyer but like what if Julianne Moore is Cate Blanchett in Tar where we assume it's a repeat victory happening everyone is watching it happen and then the steam builds up on something I don't think there's anything everything everywhere all at once size that's going to quite do that I mean that's the problem and that was out first yeah well yeah if the Odyssey had a lead actress if Anne Hathaway had a lead lead uh maybe we'd be talking about that but i don't i don't think she would win and lead like it's just not a lead i i think i agree with you i think she made the right choice but it would have been fun to watch sorry chris some people may be listening to this are like it's gotta be indy navarette then or something but i was like what if indy navarette is jennifer lopez and hustlers and it's just like totally fake uh a fake like not materializing a mirage and it doesn't and she doesn't show up it's a different category it's going it's going comedy at the globes which is a choice because it's robbing her of giving a speech.

28:32She would win. Don't you think Best Actress in a Drama at the Globes is a wild category to think about. And I do think like we've said, I've definitely said this to you, Katie, in our group text and choice. But I'm like, I think the negative take on that movie is like that it's incredibly misogynistic and really like treats her so poorly, the character. And I think putting it in comedy actually just makes it like if people start noticing, like, I don't know. I don't think that was like a great POV or like for optics to put it in comedy because it's not really funny and it's actually really upsetting.

29:04It needs to be a tragedy about her. I think you'd have a better shot of this instead of just being like, ha ha, we're going to laugh at this woman who is being held against her will. It's weird because it's like, I think like on paper, it's like they're trying to mimic the substance. It's like, this is not the substance. It's a very different movie, a different tone. So it's like, I completely understood why substance fun comedy. Yeah. Yeah, it's a weird choice. And Joyce, as you said, it gave her the chance to give a speech. Like, Julianne Moore, I think, has that Globe in hand for sure. And I don't know.

29:37Who wins Best Actress in a Drama at the Globes? It might just be one of the non-English performances. It could be like Sandra Hewler. Or like Virginia Fira. Yeah. Or Jean Doyen for Possible Love, which I would love to see that movie go really far. It's hard to know how the Globes are going to respond to it. And whoever wins that Globe drama and then his position then is Wagner Mora. Is Wagner Mora. Or Frenantor. I mean, it is like a weird tradition at this point of like an international performance that seems on the bubble, wins a globe and then has a guaranteed spot. And then like gets their movie into BP.

30:10Yeah. I mean, why wouldn't we? We should probably get toward wrapping this up. Do you guys have remaining hot takes that you want to make sure and get out before we end? Oh, I have an artist social one, which is kind of like silly. Ooh, fun. Which Chris has seen, but you and I haven't, right? Yes. Okay. Yes. So actually I have two. Yeah, right. I have two. So I'm like, so it premiered at NYFS and, you know, got a great response. I also thought it was hilarious that that same night was the embargo lift on Social Reckoning. A bunch of people saw it like back to back as a double feature. Yeah. And, you know, starring Anora Stars.

30:46So and the response to Artificial Dog reminded me of like the rapturous response to Marty Supreme's premiere last year in New York. And it's just like, of course, like everyone here is going to love it. And, you know, it's not coming out till Christmas. So we have to wait a while. Exactly. And like everyone was slotting like everyone already had Timmy and everyone was like slotting Josh and like all these other nominations. like and like now everyone's like sawing an Andrew you know and like I don't I haven't seen a lot of Yoroborosov predictions but I'm sure he's like you know on the fringes of well I think we didn't realize he was the lead until people saw it yeah on Monday so it's a lot of changing assumptions yeah um so but I was just like what if this this is just like another like you know festival goggles type of reception to it and it just kind of not dies off because obviously Marty didn't die off but just you know like the excitement kind of lowers to a simmer later on with the industry folks with and it's luca because like luca doesn't have a great track record with the oscars in the first place yeah um and then my other one with like the placements for andrew and yura since people thought it would be the other way around what if yura gets like keith stanfielded into supporting.

32:02That would be so good. Oh my God. I love that as a verb also. It's very important because I know exactly what you meant as soon as you said it. Well, Chris, you've actually seen it. Like, would that be possible? I mean, anything, I guess. Anything is possible. Anything is possible. Oscar voters can put people where they want. They do what they want. I think you could make the, you could justify that they're co-leads. I think Andrew in supporting makes a lot of sense to me just because it's like a robust supporting performance but it's clearly more sense than judas and the black messiah is he as much of a supporting player as daniel kaluuya is and judas and the black messiah i guess i mean probably i'm trying to think back to just about black messiah and i'm sure we'll get like the screen time it's like the movie is from the ilia which is the euroborosov characters pov and then sam is like kind of like in the background for the first like 25 minutes and then he's like in the movie as like the main driver with ilia is this like a real pain i i actually had that as a comp maybe i think it's a little bit like a real pain so it is a bit of a fraud but not really but i do think the only i thought of marty supreme too and i will say like it was a rapture response but marty supreme had a much better response to me and nff than our official did but that said the only reason i'm like not ready to say that is i just think that the time it's so timely and i do think that aspect of it and people like you could like ai is bad and so you're going to be like i'm going to like kind of like again approach like you thinking of how you're voting and being like i want to stick it to sam altman you know whatever and maybe then like that helps andrew get in but i do the apprentice then right it could be the apprentice and i was thinking that actually too and what if you're just the two acting just the two acting get in yeah again it would be kind of the best actor is so crazy but at the same time a year of or some is obviously has that oscar nomination for a Nora and was kind of like carried in with Mikey, but they were so good together.

33:57He's so good in this. Like he's shockingly good. I thought, and like, it's a really great performance. So I think if he does, if this, we see best actor like Anthony Abolito or Jafar Jackson are not as taken seriously and Cruz falls off and Ryan Gosling isn't there. Like maybe your Warsaw has enough to get number ones. I think people will really respond to that. and they both get in as playing like these, you know, like the only difference is you're not like a villain like Trump was, obviously. So you have Trump and Warren Cohen, which I think was like a great two for villain. But we'll see. I think those are both really good comps.

34:32So if in early January, the headlines about AI are even worse than they are now, which is very easy to imagine, that would be a big boost for artificial. I think so. Bad for the world, good for the Oscar chances of artificial. Great news for your Oscar campaign, bad for artificial. There's also, I mean, we have so many um like bad media tech guy movies yeah too well i i don't i'm not assuming the social reckoning is going to be a major part of the conversation going forward but i don't know if you guys are feeling differently at this point no unfortunately i do not have it anywhere i believe i gotta see it what would if jeremy would to get in as like the lone nominee like what is the which jeremy jeremy's strong i think jeremy allen white is not likely to happen um i mean the comp as kind of The Apprentice again.

35:13Right. I mean, I think he'd be a solo nominee. Yeah. That's the thing. Brian Tyree Henry and Causeway, Chris. The Causeway was so good. Similar, I'm sure. Okay, we should bring this to a close as much as we could do this all day. Joyce, we'll come back in a little while and see how wrong these are. How wrong they are. That's the whole point. It's a time capsule to see what we're thinking at this point. So for those of you listening, stick around. I'll be back in a moment with my conversation with Phil Lord and Chris Miller talking about Project Hail Mary and very important topics, to me at least, like why is Sandra Huller wearing the most comfortable sweaters I've ever seen on screen?

35:50They gave me a great answer for that and a lot more. Stick around, I'll be right back.

35:58The 15th Annual Montclair Film Festival, presented by Volvo Car USA, takes place October 16th through the 25th, featuring over 160 films and events, including celebrity guests and the season's most talked about films. Discover the full schedule and purchase tickets at festival.montclairfilm.org.

36:25So I want to start by rewinding a little bit, but not that far, just back to the spring, because this movie comes out in March and we're now at this point of really celebrating a really good box office year and kind of having this relief that people want to go to the movies. But in March, it was not that obvious. And I'm wondering what kind of pressure you guys were feeling at that point of like, all right, if this movie doesn't do well, is this going to be another time where people say movie going is dead? And how do you remember feeling about that opening and the pressure there? I think we had, you know, we knew the movie was playing with audiences.

36:59I think our preoccupation was to make sure enough people saw it. That they would then, that the word of mouth would spread. But not so many people saw it that everyone saw it. And then didn't need to see it. Like you didn't pre-screen it to so many people that like the entire audience had been fathled. Like everyone in America already saw it for free. So it's great. It's over. How widely did you pre-show it? Like, did you do more of that than you usually do? Yeah. Not more than we usually do, but we definitely, we showed it early. Yeah. Because the studio was very confident that it was going to connect with audiences.

37:40And we tested the movie a lot as we do for most of our movies, just to make sure that nothing's confusing and everything. it's as engaging as it can be. I would say the nerves started like a year out trying to figure out how to bring the movie to market. And by the time the movie got released, the work had already been done. Like the folks at MGM had worked really hard to make it. It's a movie that you can't pitch in two sentences. It takes like four or five, which meant that like, oh, we're going to need a trailer one to tell you that the earth is in danger and Ryan wakes up in space and then something unusual happens.

38:21And then we're going to need trailer two to tell you that this movie is about a friendship with this beautiful creature. Who you weren't really revealing for a long time. Yes. We didn't want to give away everything, but the movie is so much about their relationship. So it was hard to not to leave that as a twist when it happens, you know, a third of the way into the. And one of the things that we were so happy about working with everyone on the team is that this is an original movie that is expensive. It is the rare thing. And so we all understood that there was a lot riding on its performance.

39:00And I would say top to bottom, everybody worked their tails off to make sure that the audience were ready to see it. I think not just MGM, but every studio was worried. Like, if we can't, can we sell an original movie to audiences? Isn't a sequel or a reboot or a massive IP that everybody knows? Yeah. Well, you're saying there started a year out when Sinners came out, where you're like, okay, there's someone there. Like, not to say you're Ryan Coogler, but yeah. Yeah. And the audience, you know, I think the thing we're all learning is to trust them. Mm-hmm. that they will find the good stuff and that they're here for things that are original.

39:42Well, and you have had that ability throughout your career. You know, you have the, it seems like a bad idea to make a Lego movie and here it is. You trust the audience to find it. But I wonder how those assumptions shifted with putting out something like this, not just because Project Home Mary is a different movie, but the perception had been the audiences had changed so much and what you can assume people know about and what interest you can find. Like, did it feel like a dramatic shift for you guys and what you expected of audiences from the last time you had a, I guess 22 Jump Street a long time ago.

40:07Audience are still made up of human beings. And the brains of human beings have sort of settled into this kind of form for the last 10 ,000 years or so. So we're confident that like, if it plays, it plays. Right. Yeah. So the other, I thought it felt like an open question going into this, said that this is movie is an optimistic movie and all of your movies have been optimistic to some extent but sometimes optimism and comedy don't necessarily go all that comfortably together and it seems like you guys were confident that something that had this idea of like we're not necessarily screwed we can fix this was there but I'm curious about how how that balance between comedy and optimism has happened for you guys over the years and your relationship with just like real sincerity which is such a huge part of this and has to I think be deeply felt for it to work the way that it does.

40:59Yeah, I think that's why we really connected with the manuscript for the book when we read it, that it was, you know, it was about the end of the world, but it was hopeful, which you don't see very often. There's a lot of movies and things in the culture out there reminding us how bleak things are, and the world is pretty messed up. And we were always thinking about, well, what's next? What do we do now? And I think our lived experience and the lived experience of a lot of people is that your day-to-day is full of cooperation and people doing mitzvahs for one another and people getting on an airplane peacefully and off of it.

41:47Not that that's relevant to your life right now, traveling around. Yeah, so I'm always amazed that the world, so many things work. And I sometimes wonder if we want to make sure that we put... I want people to walk out of the movie more optimistic than they felt when they walked in. And it's not enough to say the world's broken. It is broken. What we want to try to do is say, well, so what do we do now? And I'd say that, like, over our career, one of the things we've learned is watching people watch movies. The thing that is spectacular is not necessarily watching people in conflict. The thing that is spectacular is watching people get along.

42:36And so, like, we made this movie Mitchell vs. Machines. And for, like, the longest time, the second act of the movie was, like, a father and a daughter arguing. And we made a very slight adjustment, which was it became a movie about a father and daughter trying to get along. And so the fact that they were both at, you know, this movie is similar. This is like two people who desperately need each other, do not speak the same language, are not sure if one another is a threat. and slowly figuring out how to accommodate one another and seeing one another's point of view. And if they can pull it off, it will save the universe.

43:17You did just call Rocky a person. I assume you do that a lot. I've always struggled with what they call him. A being? Two beings. He's a person. I wouldn't say he's not a human, but he is a person. Does that make sense? Yeah, I mean, I call my cats people, so I feel like I'm right there. So it sounds like maybe the assumption that it's hard to be sincere and be funny at the same time is not actually true. I mean, your careers have been evidenced at that, but it doesn't sound like it's been a struggle for you guys to balance those things. No, I mean, I think that's sort of who we are. You know, I don't think it would be we just have to be true to who we are.

43:50I also think that like in comedy, you know, the thing the opposite of comedy is shame. and if you're sitting in an audience and like people like there's so much a ton of yelling and and people being crummy to each other eventually you shrink and you start to like not feel safe in that place and I think the part of it is feeling like we're comfortable even if people are doing transgressive things that you're on their side yeah yeah um I love that you you guys said in an interview that you quoted Sidney Pollack calling all your collaborators at the start of this saying, like, do you want to go be scared of something?

44:29Which you can tell that they trust you, that they said yes. Or that they're equally sickos. I guess that's true. But you have to say that. And but then also when you're on a set or even beforehand, have to have the confidence to get everyone to move forward. So how do you embrace what you're scared of and then make it so that the people you're working with are scared in the actually functional way, not in the we can't get through this day kind of way. Right. You're talking about some of the great filmmakers alive, you know? And so when you pull in somebody like Greg Fraser, you know, the confidence is like, Greg, I know what you do.

45:04You are one of the most poetic shooters that is also the most kinetic, right? You know how to make things really immediate. And Greg is a problem solver. So we have total confidence that his soul is the right soul to work on the movie, right? And everybody that we're bringing on are people who, you know, are passionate about doing something they haven't done before and doing something new. And that is scary, but it is also exciting. And Greg thinks that's fun. Right. And Paul Lambert and Mags, like, who are visual effects supervisors, they think it's fun. Both of those people looked at us and said, you know, this is the most complicated movie we've ever worked on, and we just finished two dunes.

45:47Yeah, it's nuts. But yeah, from department head to department head, everyone's excited the chance to do something special. And when they feel like it might be something special, then they put all their passion and ideas into it. And we're all building off of each other and going in the same direction. And that's when you get something that everyone can be proud of. Well, I remember seeing A Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs. And it says at the beginning, a film by a lot of people. And like you've been doing that since the very, very beginning. And I think everyone who does interviews, like, we'll talk about the team that goes into it, but it feels so front and center for you guys.

46:23And I don't know if you think that other directors don't think that way, but why is it so present for you in a way that it doesn't feel like it is for others? Part of these, I think, is because there's two of us. We know it's not a cell operation. We know it's a team sport. Filmmaking is a team sport. And you have to bring on collaborators that you believe in and that you trust and that trust you. And the building block of our work is the conversation between us. It's not like just that something came down from heaven and I was a vessel for it. That may be, but Chris is also a vessel from Zeus.

47:02And then so we have to navigate like the two different points of view. And in the conversation comes something better, which is something neither of us would have expected, a third thing. And so now you're compounding that by bringing on other teammates. Like Charlie Wood is the production designer who's like an amazing guy who does incredible interiors, right, which this movie needed. It had spent a lot of time on a spaceship. I need somebody who's going to – we have to shoo Charlie off the set in order to shoot. But the other thing about it, and when we first met him, is he had the best ideas.

47:35And not only that, when the three of us talked, the best ideas came out of that. Yeah. There's like people that we've worked with before, like Glenn and Dave, are the costume designers that did these incredibly insane things. Not the least of which was this insane Xenonite suit that Ryan had to get into and walk around to be on Rocky's ship. um and we try to privilege you know when we can working with the same people because it's not just that they're incredible artists is that together we have a productive conversation and that conversation is fun and buoyant and exciting and so that thing is really unique and special so um we try to really um prioritize that and value that do you guys feel like you have to work out any of your points of disagreement before you get on the set so that on the set in those other conversations you operate as one mind or can you work it out together okay yes it happens naturally because we talk about the scenes and every moment and every prop and every everything uh for months before before we get on the set and we've we've talked to ryan and we've talked to james or sandra or everybody about about each scene so we've we all have a sense of what it's going to be, but we don't show up on such a way like, oh, wait, I thought they were supposed to be yelling at each other and I thought they were supposed to be in love.

48:57I mean, the thing about spending time together, every movie crew is both an army and a troop, right? Sure. And so a troop meaning an artistic troop of performers. And so you flushed out in the conversation a lot of the different points of view and hopefully synthesized them. Chris and I drive to work together in the same car. That's cute. And it's like an hour to the set. So we work out a lot of stuff and we usually show up. A lot of times we're like the first people on set. We show up easily an hour early and we just kind of walk and kind of get it all in our bodies. So that's one uncertainty that doesn't hit the set.

49:38But then what happens is you prepare, prepare and plan and especially a movie like this, which shows wires for zero gravity and puppetry and all these very complex things You can't just sort of like, I don't know, we'll figure it out on the day. It has to be very precisely planned. But then you have to be flexible to new ideas and to what comes from the magic of when it starts to happen. And that was one of the real joys of working with Ryan is that he is a very intuitive filmmaker and performer. And when you get in there and you start rehearsing the scene, he would think about new things. and his ideas, his instincts are always spot on.

50:20He's like, I want to fight a robot and I want to be reborn at the beginning of the movie like a baby that doesn't know how to walk. It's so gross. And I want to be in a placenta onesie. It's really awful. You know, and just like, and that's the thing. It's like, we knew when he called, like, this is going to be different because Ryan's in it, at the center of it. And it's going to be different because we're part of it. And that's beautiful. So Ryan has an idea on set. Does he track down one of you and you know that the other one would agree with it? Or does it have to be a three-way conversation?

50:53No, we're all together. You're always standing next to each other on set. We have sort of like a wallet chain between our guests so that we can never separate. And so we'll run through the scene and we're like, here's what we're thinking the blocking is. And then it comes as we sort of experiment with, let's play around with it. Ryan will say, well, what if we did this? And James will say, well, you know, I could do this. And then and the magic is being open to that sort of thing and going, actually, that's a really good idea. What if we did it this way? And then and then as a team, like finding the best version and then getting iterations of it that we can then mess with in the editorial suite and figure out how to tell the story.

51:34Yeah. I have so many like specific detail questions for a movie I've not seen several times. But the one that's been with me the most, Sandra Huller is the most comfortable leading female star of a big movie that I've ever seen. She's wearing the coziest sweaters every person has ever had. It's so aspirational that you can be like a female lead of a blockbuster and never like show your neck at all. How did that become her costume? A lot of conversations about what do people in power actually like? Do they have a pencil skirt and their head in a bun and everything's uptight? Or if they're really powerful, maybe they carry themselves really casually because the power comes to them easily.

52:14And somebody like Sandra, who when you're in her presence, you want to drop to your knees. She's the most magnetic, interesting, captivating person. And so you go, well, that person, she holds that power like it was nothing. Because it just is, it's in, she just has it. And when, you know, when we were talking about the character, we all had the same point of view. So we really didn't want to do sort of the ice queen business lady trope. Yeah. And so what's more observational than that? And one of the people that we were basing it on was our fellow producer, Amy Pascal. Amy Pascal. Of course. Who used to run, like, a studio is now one of the most important producers in our business.

52:53And Amy's like, you know what? When I was running the studio, I had like five bags and three phones, you know? And all I wanted was loose fitting clothing because I just wanted to like not, I had too many things to think about. And comfortable shoes. And the last thing I want to do is like be fighting blisters all day. Oh my God. So smart. Very smart. I think Pascal's like onscreen legacy, like the amount of characters she has inspired at this point. Oh yeah. Yeah. The studio. Yeah. I know. Again, aspirational figures of people who you want to be. And Catherine O 'Hara has a line in that show, in the pilot, that's just like something Amy would say and probably did say, which is, when it's good, it's good forever.

53:35No. It's really sweet. Oh, that's a good thing to remind yourself, presumably in a really long day when you'd really like to get out of there. The other specific costume question, because I think, Chris, you tweeted this, that Ryan is the yellow guy of this decade. Like, it was the main thing's last day, and now we have this one. And color is so interesting in this, the Petrova line, the pink and all of that. But how did yellow become what this needed to be? Well, it's actually interesting that the yellow is associated with fear, cowardice. The most interesting part about it is that Ryan was gravitated to that yellow raincoat.

54:10We wanted to find something distinctive and iconic for Earth. But then also we had a color theory about the jumpsuits that he would wear in space and going from yellow to red to white. It had some symbolism. In the beginning, he's a chicken and he's yellow. And then he evolves. And so there was like a unified costume theory and like a murder perp chart with like yarn everywhere. Like, yeah, on Earth he's this and that. So there is a lot of intentionality about the color. The other thing I love about that raincoat is it's so noisy. It's so noisy. It's so noisy. And it's always making sound. And so when he, there's the big scene with him and Sandra, the last scene they have on earth.

54:53Yeah. Where he's telling her he doesn't want to go. And it's so, and the whole time it's making all this noise, like the way that you would be in an uncomfortable scene. And all you can think about is like the creaky chair. Yeah. And so on the mix stage, they cleaned it up. And we're like, no, no, no, no. They were like, we got rid of all that stuff with the raincoat. We're like, no, no, no. Go back to the boom. I want to hear every squeak. Yeah. You're making the drops a lot harder, but it's worth it in the end. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is kind of a big question to end it on, so apologies. But you make these Spider-Verse movies and you see the impact of them kind of translating visually into all these different styles of something.

55:37And, you know, we have yet to see what the impact of Project Hail Mary is going to be. But I'm curious about how that affects the way you think about it when you know you can make something that's going to have this long life. Kind of like the when something is good, it's good forever. Like when you watch your work have influence over the years, what does it make you want to do or push or think about differently that you realize you can push things forward in that way? Oh, man. Well, you know, you always are trying to think about like you have this opportunity and what are you going to say with this opportunity?

56:05Yeah. What's the Frank Capra? quote of like, you have unfettered access to somebody's brain for two hours. I'm sure he didn't say it that way. But you have to treat that, that generosity that the audience give you with great respect, right? So what are we going to leave behind in your head? And hopefully it's something useful, you know? Yeah. And you're saying that like, you know, these are problems for us to solve. If we work, come together and meet each other with empathy and openness, we can accomplish great things. And it seems like... And we do all the time. Yeah. You know, I was so struck by the Artemis mission when they went around the moon.

56:44Like, just listening to how affirming the language was over the radio between them. Well, they quoted the movie also. Well, there's that. It was a trip. That made us weak. Oh, yeah. But mostly, I was just like, wow, they're so polite. Yeah. I think everybody cries when you watch that. Just like the ending of Apollo 13 when you're watching a bunch of people who worked really hard. The things we can accomplish together. And the way they build each other up and how productive that is. You go to most movie sets. It's not like a bunch of people yelling with bullhorns. It's a lot of people going, watch your back.

57:20You're right. Do you need something? It's such a polite place. Not because people are nice, but because nice is productive. Right. And being able to like, stories of people who are connected with it emotionally. like still choked me up. And like, you know, even recently with people going like, oh, my father-in-law, we all saw it and he's in hospice and we all together are holding hands. When Ryan was saying like, I made peace with it. I got to do all this amazing stuff. Yeah, someone told us a wild story about a parent that wasn't very communicative, but they gave a thumbs down to say that they also were like understood and had made peace with, you know, their life, you know, passing on.

58:06We were just all crying together. So, like, it's those little things. You know, we always say, like, making a movie is really physical and you can really feel it. Your feet hurt. You know, you're exhausted at the end of the day. Releasing a movie is very abstract. You get an email, like, it's doing well in the flyover states. You know, it only becomes tangible in this, like, one-on-one, like, thing. People telling you about how much it meant. Well, then I will selfishly end by saying that I didn't bring the Lego Rocky that my kid built. That we had to jury rig because there wasn't an official one.

58:38I know there's a real ship now. My son and I built one of the Rocky mods also. Yeah, it's perfect. But yeah, we're going to get the ship. It's a very important part of our household, as was Mitchell's versus machines, honestly. Like you guys were growing up with your movies. So I got some space kids. It's like it was the best way to get ready for the Artemis mission. So thank you for that. Of course.

59:04That does it for this week's show. We'll be back next week with some dispatches from the front lines of the fall festival season. I'm heading to the Middleburg Film Festival. Chris will be at the Montclair Film Festival. We'll bring in some friends who are experiencing even more of them. It is the season for Oscar contenders to be crisscrossing the country. We're trying to keep our eye on it as best we can. In the meantime, this podcast is edited by Brett Fox and produced by Brett Fox and me. Our theme music is by Dave Gonzalez. Thanks again to our co-host today, Joyce Ng. Subscribe to the Prestige Junkie newsletter at theankler.com and subscribe to this podcast on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or anywhere else you get your podcasts.

59:40There's a video version. If you're not watching it already, find it in all those places. We will see you next week.