Best Supporting Actress Power Rankings with Tyler Coates, Plus John Turturro on The Only Living Pickpocket in New York

0:00Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for$15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do at mintmobile.com slash switch.

0:30The subway is the perfect place for that because there's so many people bumping into each other all the time. That's right. And so, you know, I practice on people that wouldn't arrest me.

0:43Hi, everyone. I'm Katie Rich. This is the Prestige Junkie Podcast. And today we are concluding our four-part series, Diving Deep on the Acting Races. Joining me as always is my colleague, Christopher Rosen, calling in live from the Denver Film Festival. Hi, Chris. Thank you for taking your time away from the beautiful mountain. So come podcast. You're truly devoted. I got right off the mountain and came. I appreciate it. Also joining us, not from his usual location, on the film festival circuit as well, filmmaker, magazine, columnist, Tyler Coates. Hello, Tyler. You're calling in from Virginia.

1:14I'm, yes, Charlottesville, Virginia for the Virginia Film Festival. So thank you for having me. What a wonderful time of year to travel to beautiful locations and sit inside and watch movies instead of teasing at them. So we're going to talk about Best Supporting Actress rounding out our series. And after you hear us dive deep with our 10 picks for that category, you'll hear my conversation with John Turturro about his new film, The Only Living Pickpocket in New York. There's so much coming up. Welcome to the show.

1:42So, Tyler, when I was asking you to come on the show for a couple of different options, You seemed by far the most excited to talk about Best Supporting Actress. And I know you love actresses, but I wonder if this race in particular had captured your imagination. Well, I think this is a fun one because we have a situation where I think we could have two nominees from the same movie and also two nominations for the same actor, actress. For the first time ever. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So it could be an interesting category where we just see like domination completely happening and like a very small group of people can actually get in.

2:19We also have, I should say, from the very top, there is a contender we're going to discuss from You Can See Everything. And if you don't want to know why that is, you don't know why, you don't want to hear us talk more about it. You have our permission to skip over this. We're going to talk openly about it when the time comes. And that is all I'll say. We're trying to get better about spoilers. Chris, I know you don't want to spoil things for people, but it seems like you just say you have such a passion for spoilers that we have to get ahead of it. Well, I was going to spoil Digger again, Katie, but people were so mad about it last week that I won't.

2:45I won't do that again. People being mad about Digger. I just I'm unfamiliar with this. I didn't think that was a movie that had sparked a lot of passion. I don't think we'll be talking about Digger in this conversation, but there's a lot of other things to talk about. So I think I won't waste any more time. Once again, we have each body list of 10 ranked in order of how likely we think they are to get nominated. The goal is absolutely to have a wide range of people, probably some agreement toward the top. Tyler, I'm going to start with you and your number 10. Who is who is your pick? You know, I'm going to throw out the name that I want to see more attention being paid to, which is India Amartifio.

3:25I think that's how you say her name from Clarissa. Yeah. She plays the younger version of Clarissa, the title character played by Sophie Okonedo in this Nigerian set adaptation of Mrs. Dalloway, which I found so beautiful. I thought Sophie was incredible, but India really, really blew me away. I had not seen her in anything before. I knew she did Queen Charlotte, the Bridgerton spinoff a couple years ago for Netflix. but she really, really captured my attention in a way that I like, I want to throw that name out first because I am rooting for her generally now. But I know it's, I think she's low down on the list of contenders here.

4:04Well, but Clarissa, see, it's been playing all over the place. I didn't even realize it was at Middleburg until I like saw pictures later afterwards. So it's doing the circuit. It feels like a lot of people when they see it are really blown away by it in the same way that you are. So I think, I don't think that's a bad call. Like we could get, you know, she or Sofia Canedo could get the surprise globe nomination. We're like, oh, wow, Clarissa is really breaking through. Chris, you haven't seen that one yet, right? Not yet. No, but I can't wait. I've heard it's good. So there you go. It's really like beautiful and striking.

4:32And like, there's not really anything else in that vein this year. So I feel like it's got potential to keep going. Chris, I'm going to go to you for your number 10. Similar to Tyler, I'd like to go for some long shots here at the end. So I'm going to stick with one I've been talking about. But I think at least with you and who knows, but I have Merit Weaver for prime time because I just love Merit Weaver. I think she's fantastic in the movie. She's so, so good. So fun. And like, just like really kind of steamrolls the movie in a way that I found just wonderful. So I don't know if she'll get nominated, but I was like, people love Merit Weaver.

5:08She's won Emmys for nothing, basically, you know, and I'm like, maybe the industry goodwill for her will carry her even if prime time is like on the lower rung of A24. priorities. Yeah, where are we on primetime now? Like, it's not even the most popular Lance Oppenheim movie that 834 has in awards season. And I think it had this big pop moment, but we talked about Skylar Gazondo last week as a supporting actor. It really feels unclear where primetime is going to land. What do you think, Tyler? I had her as, like, my number nine for Merit. I also think, like, kind of really popped from that movie for me as well as Skylar.

5:45I didn't love that movie as much. And I think my, you know, it was it wasn't like a big hit out of the gate. Right. Like it did fairly well at the box office and then kind of has petered out in terms of buzz. But, you know, I repeat myself all the time on this podcast. I'm always thinking about the international voters. And like, that's one where I'm like, is this too American pop culture like moment in time or does it transcend like a cultural thing? I wonder if it's like so American that international voters are like, what is wrong with you people? Like they get like a, like a gawking aspect to it, which we have Fjord, they have primetime and that's how.

6:24That would be a real bummer double feature to put those together. Do you think that primetime would be better off if it were only Skylar or only Merritt? Like, I wonder if like, if you want to put something toward that, people might pick one or the other and then neither of them gets it. Which would be a bummer. I don't know. I feel like they, they, those two performances, you know, I think Pattinson is obviously the star and he's who you come for. and that's who, you know, he's on the poster, it's his film. But they really bring, I don't know, they grounded it for me in a really amazing way that it didn't feel like this kind of like skeezy, exploitative, I mean, it kind of is an exploitation film, which is kind of fun about it, but I think that they bring it down to such a real level that like, that I feel like is what boosts them is that they kind of, they are the human heart of that film in a way.

7:13Heart of the movie. That's how you get out there. Maybe that applies to my number 10 pick. And I feel like I'm kind of stealing from Chris here and you might come up later. But Chris, I think you were the person who proposed to me that if Elsinore might be the whale, then Billy Piper could be Hong Chao and get in that coattails Best Supporting Actress nomination. It's tricky with Elsinore because Olivia Colman obviously has a supporting role. She might come up on your list. But Billy Piper has that. She's got the more emotional part. She is less famous than Olivia Colman. And like, I know Doctor Who people know her, but I wasn't honestly the first time I think I'd ever seen her was in Catherine Coldberti with Andrew Scott, which they are so wonderful together in.

7:51It's so nice to see them together again in Elsinore. And I just I would like to see her get out there. I think she and Andrew Scott could like kill it at a bunch of Q &As as a double act. So I would love to see momentum for this. If Elsinore continues to be big, it seems big right now, it continues to pop. I think she could ride right in there. I'm so upset that I did not put her on my list. Katie. Well I did it. I took care of it. I think that's a great idea because I'll have you were saying Olivia Colman I do I think she'll come up later but Billy would be great and she is like again the heart and soul of the movie a little bit in terms of it so I love that and and they are I interviewed them at TIFF Katie in our studio and they were a great double act there.

8:30They're just like they I kind of really do seem like they get along. I assume they're friends and that's why they continue working together. Yeah. So Merritt Weaver is Tyler's number nine. Who is yours, Chris. Well, I teased this before we started recording and Tyler was like, who on earth would you pick from I Play Rocky? But I have Anna-Sophia Rahm. Oh my God, Chris. Yeah, the one, the one woman. The woman, name a woman in I Play Rocky and it's Anna-Sophia Rahm who plays Rocky's girlfriend, Sylvester Snow's girlfriend, later wife, in the movie. And I thought she's just great. Like I'd only seen her really in Rebel Ridge, I guess.

9:03I think she was in, wasn't she in Silver, not Silver Surfer Soul Surfer I think she played the lead of Soul Surfer she was she was like a teen actress like I saw her and like not maybe she isn't printed Terabithia like that era children's movies and it's like again not the most complex role I would say it's like the girlfriend part in the movie but she's incredibly charming uh really kind of like does enough with Anthony Ippolito that I just found him like really I like seeing them together on screen I liked her in the And I was like, if the movie becomes like a thing, what if she gets in like at SAG or like, you know, whatever golden globes and all of a sudden we're talking about her as a potential nominee.

9:44Is she like the Monica Barbaro of this year for that movie? I don't know. Monica Barbaro, Hong Chow. We're just on all the supporting actress twists today. Can you, my question though, can you name her character's name? Not a, not a, not a, name you can kind of name a woman. Sasha, Sasha Sack. Right, right, right. That was her real name. No, I know. She's a real person. That's right. She's real. Yeah. You know, but anyway, I have her. You know, it didn't occur to me watching this movie, like, Sylvester Stallone is someone I imagine has been married many times. How long did that relationship last after making a Rocky?

10:17You know what? I looked this up. She does not have her own Wikipedia page. Although she, you know, obviously, they were married for 11 years. They divorced in 1985. Okay. And that's when he married Bridget Nielsen. Obviously. That's in the sequel? That'll be I Play Rocky 2. You know, they had their first son, born in 1976, the same year. You had the son that she's pregnant with. Oh, yeah. Sage Moonblood, which is not a vibe I got from them based on I Play Rocky. Fascinating. No. Chris, I admire you sticking by I Play Rocky. I don't know how far this is going to stick around. I really don't think Anna Sophia Robb is going anywhere, but I admire.

10:57I don't think so. Tyler, you've seen I Play Rocky? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I liked it. I just saw it and enjoyed it also. But it's a great movie about a better movie. I mean, I think it's, you know, it's a choice to make. Put that on the poster. I mean, we didn't talk about... Remember Rocky? Wasn't that great? Yeah. We didn't talk about Tracy Letts in our supporting actor conversation, but I do. He might be the performance of the movie for me. After we recorded that supporting actor one, I was like, we should have done Tracy Letts because he has all those paramount zingers in the movie. I still think those are going to play really well for the industry.

11:30Oh, yeah. I mean, if he had a bigger part and there were fewer guys in that movie, we might be able to talk more about it. OK, I feel like I'm on the real opposite end of the spectrum with my number nine. And this might be this might be hope dictating, which is I always say is perfectly valid this time of year. But I put Tao Okamoto for all of a sudden because I think Virginia Fira is going to stick around the best actress conversation, maybe even more because of the way best actress is shaking out the way that there's kind of fewer like big overall best picture contenders. I don't know that all of a sudden is like that strong is best picture thing, but they are such a double act.

12:03They won best actress together at Cannes and it's kind of hard to want to celebrate one without the other. And I think if all of a sudden has even like half of drive my car's sickiness in the Oscar race to get in there. I think Tao Okamoto and Virginia Fira both have the potential to get to get some votes in there. I don't know what the campaigning process is. I think Virginia Fira has done more at this point. I don't know what Tao is up to. She might be working on something else. But I would just, you know, love to keep the conversation going, at least, because I think she's very deserving. I almost had her.

12:35I have her like I had her in here and then I was like, I'm going to do the goof and have Anna Sophia Rob. So that was good. I'm glad you have her in there. I think that's a very legitimate potential. We're really balancing it out. Oh, good. That is why we do 10, so that you have room to go off on a wild hair. Tyler, let's get to your number eight then. My number eight is Scarlett Johansson in Paper Tiger, which is my number one movie of the year. I love James Gray. I love this film. I think she's really, really wonderful in it. People are being weird about, we've talked about this many times, Katie, people are weird about James Gray.

13:11They are weird about James Gray. But, you know, I think what is so wonderful, but she grew up around, you know, she grew up in New York. I think that these are women that she knew very well growing up. And I feel like also it's weird because like she and Miles Teller are so young to me. They're both younger than me. And so they're playing like parents when they're so younger than us. Exactly. Disgusting. But they, you know, they bring like a real interesting like she's aged up. It feels like in a way or maybe it isn't. It's just the hair makes her look old. That's what 30 year olds in the 80s wore their hair like that.

13:47Scarlett Hesman is 40 also. So you can give her some credit. I was going to say late 30s and give her a little bit of a break there. But no, I love that movie. And I think it's interesting because like, you know, reading more about how it was supposed to be made, you know, originally an Armageddon time sequel with Anne Hathaway and Jeremy Strong. She may have made the right choice to make different movies last year. And I don't know if Jeremy did. But, you know, it's interesting because Anne, I think we'll be talking about her later in this episode. So no, Anne and Scarlett is like the like, I don't think they've ever worked together, but they're just these fascinating parallel tracks that got famous around the same time and like different but similar veins.

14:29And it would be super interesting to see them in a lineup together. I don't have Scarlett Johansson on my list. I kind of wish that I did because I also love Paper Tiger. She did the New York Film Festival premiere, right? Like she's been because I just feel like she has been kind of absent from what promoting this movie would be. And I think that given James Gray's history with the Academy, which, you know, I feel scarred and I don't want to try to root for anything because it feels like it never happens. She would have to get out there so big to make it happen. And it's unclear to me if she's going to do that.

14:59But, you know, I think when you think of like talk about someone who's been a double nominee before, I mean, Marriage Story and Jojo Rabbit in the same year. Like she is someone who has she's kind of like that Bradley Cooper kind of star who like keeps getting. Yeah. You know, some some things kind of tossed her way, but never really goes the full circle. She's in the conversation. The full way. Yeah. Yeah. But she was everywhere in that marriage story. Yes, that is true. Yeah. But like, you know, she is like truly I think of the list that we're going through other than maybe Anne Hathaway. Like she is like kind of the top like A-list star in this group, I would say.

15:36uh yeah well yeah yeah i mean she's been the highest paid actress in hollywood there's there's some other stars we're gonna get into but yes of course but now it's interesting because like you know she this would be her second supporting yeah because marriage story and jojo rabbit yeah jojo rabbit was supporting i don't yeah i couldn't remember uh because lost in translation i think she was yeah jojo rabbit and marriage story were her first nominations because it took a long time to get there. So yeah, I don't know. We could see maybe people coming around to her. But yeah, I think that she needs to kind of get on the ground, do some campaigning out there, Scarlett.

16:13Pound that pavement. Okay, Chris, your number eight pick. My number eight pick is Olivia Colman for Elsinore. I went like, tried to be a little safe after going crazy with Anna Sophia Rahm. I think Billy Piper is phenomenal in the movie. I think maybe she would be the nominee. But on paper, it makes sense that like Olivia Colman is like got this kind of, you know, stoic-ish role for her. It has like a little nice emotional moment at the end of the movie. And if Andrew Scott's going to be a steamroller or get into best actor as a nominee, at least, one of these actresses probably will come along for the ride.

16:46And we talked about this in your newsletter you wrote about like Wicker, right? And we talked about this a little, I think, with David Canfield a few episodes ago. I never stop talking about Wicker these days. What if she's a double nominee for Wicker and this movie? Would that be so cool? So yeah, I have her in my number eight spot. Tyler, where are you on Elsinore, its strength right now? I don't think we talked about this with Billy Piper a few minutes ago. I really liked it. I went into it kind of expecting it to be one of those movies where it's a perfectly fine movie with a really, really strong lead performance.

17:17And that is what it is. I think it's a much better movie than people were leading me to believe. It moved me in ways that I was very surprised by. and I do you know Olivia Coleman is it's not a very showy performance she's kind of you know it feels like kind of she's there to do the one job which is to be the stern doctor who saves the day in a way and also has like her heart touched in a beautiful way by the experience of watching Hamlet I guess can we just also say that focus has tricked me into watching Hamlet two years in a row and I'm still kind of annoyed about this. Did you watch the the Riz Ahmed Hamlet also just for good measure?

17:57No, I've never seen nor read Hamlet Hamlet, Jesus Christ, all the way through. So like last year's Hamlet, I was like, goddammit, I can't believe they're tricking me and this year once again. I feel like generally you know what happens in Hamlet. I get the gist. I kind of, I got all the reference points that they talk about in Elsinore. I didn't really need, I just didn't know what Elsinore referred to until I saw the film. I'm sorry we were spoiling Hamlet here. in addition to potentially other things. We didn't mention Hamlet spoilers. But no, I thought she was really good. That's my take. Yeah, I agree.

18:33And we're recording this before Wicker opens. I'm still holding out hope that Wicker is just the smash success that gives us all Olivia Colman fever again. I think it could be. I'm saying, although at Verity Money, those people have all seen Verity now, and now I'll go straight to Wicker and see what happens. Okay, my number eight might be my trolling moment because I didn't mean to make this so low, but I feel like this is a time to talk about how you deal with someone who has two performances. This is where I put Penelope Cruz for La Bulla Negra. I know that is the stronger Best Picture contender.

19:03It is a huge movie. She has a huge moment. It is showy and fun. And as an experienced actress, when you've been watching these guys who are less experienced and she kind of pops in, you're like, oh my God, here's like a real problem. Not that I think Gutierrez is great in it and is great in his scene with her. But it's small. It's a small part of the movie. I think the guys are the main show of that. And I will talk about her other performance a lot higher on this list because I think it's hard to imagine someone with their ballot picking her twice, even though they're now allowed to. I mean, and like maybe enough people will and it'll be a split and it gets in there anyway.

19:38But I don't know. I just I think the invite to be coy about it is just a bigger showcase for her. And that's kind of your chance to say, I love the invite. I want to give it one nomination. it's her whereas with Labola I think Eterica is more likely to get that part of it so this is not saying I don't think it'll happen it's just kind of where she landed I imagine you guys have her higher on your list I have her higher I have her four oh man okay we'll get to that in a little bit Katie I to troll how about troll further I don't even have her I went with another Labola person that we'll talk about later and I think exactly to your point like I mean I I like she's not real.

20:17She's great in her two scenes. And it's like basically, though, an extended cameo. And I think it's great for the movie to have her in the movie as like an ambassador for the movie. I think it'll help, you know, people who are like, I don't know any like you can imagine being like, I know Penelope Cruz. I'll put this movie on that kind of thing. And I think she's going to be great, like promoting the movie, like cheerleading the movie and getting people to see it on the campaign trail. Now you're saying she's a Jamie Lee Curtis, in which case we should say she's winning. I was like, I just think like, especially because she has this other performance in the race that's like incredibly powerful and bigger.

20:49I think that maybe she won't even get it. So I took her off my list completely because I was like, I think you're right. Like, I don't think they're going to go to for her. But to the other point, like Tyler has her in. I'm like, I wouldn't be surprised if she got in. But there you go. Yeah, I think I mean, I I I'm sort of colder on the Bollenecker than most people are. I think it's really, really good, but it doesn't really totally work for me. But I saw it again, I think on Tuesday or Wednesday. I don't know what day it is, but I saw it this week a couple days ago. It's part of their barn burner tour of Los Angeles?

21:19No, I just went to an AMC. Oh, right. I forgot. It's just out and release. Yes, it's out and release. People have access to see it. What's stopping them? But no, I was really, really taken with her performance the second time around because, talk about heart and soul of the movie. I mean, it really does come at the midway point of the film. And it really also, I think what her scene really does is connects the, especially the 1937 storyline with our present. Sure. Which is, you know, and again, like the thing, kind of an issue I have with the movie is that it wears a lot of its reference points on its sleeve.

21:57And like for her, I think she's kind of, she's kind of the Sally Bowles of this, of this Spanish world. And, you know, she's had the experience of, you know, she tells this beautiful story about a drag queen. She has this great line about what, you know, transgenderism can be. It means possibility. And I think it just, like, it hit home, you know, what culturally was lost by the Spanish Civil War. And I think that that, I think, is what moved me a lot about Elsinore is just culturally what was lost. It's kind of been a while since we've had that conversation about just like a generation of artists who were just completely wiped out from whatever, you know, fascist reasoning.

22:43So I think that that's why it sits with me a little bit stronger than maybe you guys. But and also I think like she is again, Penelope Cruz is beloved and an international star. So I think that like I think the invite is the better film and the better performance. but I do think that like it's a really strong one here. And I think I can see people if given the chance to vote for her twice, they would. Well, and also if like so many different years of like people want to vote for the same movie over and over and over again, if they love it. And so if La Bola Negra is really, really strong and it's going to pick up like the Wumi Masaku nomination or, you know, something like that just as an overall juggernaut.

23:19Yeah. I mean, I think that she could be the only acting nomination from La Bola Negra. Honestly. I had that thought too. And then I said this last week, I saw it a second time at Middleburg, and I thought Guy Chorica was more impressive than I had remembered. So I felt more bullish about him after my second viewing. Okay, so Penelope was my number eight. Again, we'll talk about her later. So, Tyler, up to your number seven. No, my number seven. Another name I haven't said out loud yet, so I'm going to have to slowly pronounce it. Mariana DiGirolamo? Giurlamo? Oh, Chris, you met her. I did. Mariana DiGirolamo.

23:53And she's my number seven, too. Way to go, Tyler. All right, there you go. um yeah you know I think I love that movie that I saw that movie very early um and I remember walking out being like okay that's that's Martin Madonna doing Martin Madonna and then but I really really thought a lot about it um over the next few days and she really stuck out to me I mean I love Parker Posey my one note about that movie is it needs more Parker Posey which is most movies to be honest but it's also kind of fantastic to set her up in that amazing house and have Parker Posey and just do that little. And just be top tier, just out of 10.

24:30Well, and not to spoil too much, but like hammers home the danger of the movie. Like the stakes of it are elevated by having less Parker Posey. That's true. That is true. Ugh, I will admit. I'll concede that. But yeah, I think that like just, you know, I think that the relationship between her character, Mariana and John Malkovich, it tracks so beautifully. It's really surprising. And yeah, I mean, I think that she is a standout in that film. I'm very curious to see if, again, like an international boost could help her get in there. She's such a discovery, too, which I think in this category can be a really strong thing.

25:05We're just like, oh, my God, I've never seen her before. If the emotional impact of the movie gets you, I think you go for her. Like when we're talking about coattails, like if she comes along with John Malkovich in a similar way. Like not that I don't think Sam Rockwell is competitive also. But I mean, Chris, you saw her in person. You can see how she can work her room. She's pretty stunning. I mean, she's obviously very stunning, but she's incredibly charming. And like to your point, I think the discovery aspect is always nice in this category where they're like, oh, I get to know this person who I had not seen before.

25:32And the fact that like Tyler's point, like all her scenes are with John Malkovich, who we think is like a front runner to to maybe win. And it's like if you like the movie, like I don't know how you wouldn't like her. I just worry that there's so many other people in the cat. Like this is a pretty crowded category. So yeah, that you might get pushed out. But I could see her definitely getting a lot of consideration, maybe like BAFTA. Who knows? Like we'll see. but she's great in the movie so well it's a crowded category but i don't know about you guys like i think my top eight or so all feel plausible like there's only really one person i think is locked in and then everything else could shuffle around does it feel as flexible to you guys i i feel like i have three that i feel are pretty strong okay all right so we'll get we'll get up there we'll get to there well i'm gonna do my number seven but i'm pretty sure it's coming up later on chris's list so i won't i will save it for later but this is where i'm going to spoil you can see everything warning this is where I have put Amanda Seyfried at number seven it's still kind of a live ball like I don't know where this movie is going to land I don't know what people are going to think about it we're recording this early so by the time it comes out there might be eight more rounds of discourse there probably will be but it just feels like a real possibility but so much mystery around it that I'm keeping it out of my top five but Chris am I right that it's going to come up later for yours?

26:47It's definitely coming up later for me Tyler is it coming up later for you also? No no No. Okay. All right. Well, I'm going to table more because Chris, I think, is going to make a more powerful case for why this could happen. So, Tyler, then your number six. My number six is Kato Flynn in Tender, Love, and Care. I put her here. Look, I think that, you know, Mike Lee has not performed with the Academy as well as he did, you know, since, I guess, is another year the last movie he got nominated for. Did he get nominated for that? I think he had a screenplay nomination in the 90s. Yeah, that's probably right.

27:22But I think that like this movie, you know, he said it's his last, whether or not that's true. Great PR move. So and I think this movie, you know, obviously she's coming off such a strong year with Widow's Bay. I mean, she really came out of nowhere, at least to me. I know that she's been in a lot of Mike Lee films already. But Patricia in Widow's Bay was just I mean, she was just a steamroller of a of a character and a performance in that. And I think that what is so beautiful about Tender Loving Care is that the first hour or so is very light. It feels a little frothier than most of Mike Lee's stuff.

27:58And then the second hour comes around and knocks you on your ass. And I feel like her final scene with Marion Bailey, and I can't remember the lead actor. Alice Bailey Johnson. Oh, the actor. Or the actor, yeah. Paul Jessen, I think. That sounds, sure. That sounds very British. And I think that, you know, I think that she could kind of ride the wave of Widow's Bay. But also I think that I think tender loving care will do pretty well because I think that people are just really enamored with it and are really delighted by it. And it's just so moving. And I think people just love Mike Lee. At least I do.

28:34Maybe this is my rose colored classics where a Mike Lee film sweeps. But I think I mean, I can see it happen. A lot of us have been rooting for that. And it's just so hard to know because it's a quieter movie. Like it hasn't been getting like audience awards or big standing ovations or all the stuff that gets everyone talking about it. But I do think it grabs people who see it, like maybe even more so the Paper Tiger, another person who we worry about, you know, the Oscars not recognizing properly. And I do think that Widow's Bay bump is huge. Like everyone knows who she is. Maybe the same thing we were saying about Penelope Cruz, like they'll put it on because they want to see what else Kato Flynn can do.

29:06And she's so winning. It's so different from what she's doing on Widow's Bay. And yeah, I have her at my number six also, like I said, because I don't know how to predict or hope for the future of tender living care. But I just think she has a strength to it. She worked. I watched her work rooms for Emmy season and I feel like people would be similarly excited to see her again. So I'm hopeful. Yeah. Chris, is she on your list at all? She's not on my list, but you guys are making me feel bad that she's not on my list. So hopefully that makes you feel better. I think you should. Oh, well, then who is at your number six slot?

29:37My number six spot is Lola Duane. That's for La Bola Negre. Which is completely maybe deranged. Oh, that's not the one I thought you were going to say. But OK. It's not Glenn Close. Wait, who? Oh, God. OK, if you were thinking Glenn Close, I would. That's insane. But the reason I put her here is because I think, like, I was thinking about this and like she's not really gotten a lot of the noise so far for the movie, obviously. And maybe and I personally think that's my that whole section is my favorite part of the movie. So that's my rose colored glasses, perhaps in this movie, because I love Carlos Gonzalez in that in the modern day part.

30:07And I love her in this. But my thing is, if Penelope Cruz was playing that character, she would maybe be the frontrunner to win the Oscar. I think it's that good of a performance. And so the only thing maybe holding it back is that Lola Duenas is not super well known to American audiences, right? Or like, you know, United States audiences. And so if the movie is this big powerhouse that we think it is and it could win Best Picture, like maybe we're – and like I know Penelope Cruz, obviously we just talked about it, incredibly famous. But like why wouldn't she be a nominee maybe? and if Ghidorica is getting it, I don't know.

30:39I'm like, she could also just make it in. I really do believe that. And I wonder as this movie kind of starts steamrolling a little more, more people seeing it, if that performance will start getting the attention that maybe it should be getting. So it's more of like a hope, but I have her number six. Yeah. No, I was really taken by her, especially the second time. And look, I love, I mean, she and Penelope, both Pedro alumni, they played Sisters in Volver, which is my favorite Pedro film. and so I think it's an interesting reunion for them even though they're not sharing screen time at all but it would be fun to see them out doing stuff together now I'm like oh wow why didn't I even consider her at all I'm glad that you did it sorry Maren I feel like I lost my nerve because I've been talking about her so much too and I had the same thought that I was saying about Penelope about like watching a veteran come in that like lunch scene that she has with her son is like so incredible.

31:36She is running away with it. She is doing so much building of that character with even the second fight. I mean, oh, my God, it's so powerful. That feels more shocking. You know, she's such like a weird, challenging character. And just again, in this movie with like people who are less experienced actors who are like captivating and beautiful to watch. And there's the obvious are doing so much with like glances and imagery and just watching an actress who knows what she's doing. Just tear into this stuff is so thrilling. I mean think about Roma where we thought it had like the one thing and then Marina Ditovira just shows up because people love that movie.

32:09It feels totally plausible. Okay Chris I love that. I'm so glad you did this. We're in through the five. We're just cruising along guys. This is great. I know we're doing so well. This is when it gets really complicated right. This is when we're going to start yelling at each other I'm sure. Tyler who is in your fifth slot? I put Sandra Hewler for Project Hail Mary. Me too. So did I.

32:32are the best. I'm so glad. If you sing Harry Styles in a movie, you're going to get in. But I feel like we all have a like, oh, is this really going to happen? Yeah, I mean, tell me. I mean, to me, again, I think I feel like I feel like really strong about my top three. Maybe in top four, I mentioned that Penelope for La Bola Negra is my number four. Sure. I feel like the fifth, this is the tough thing about this category is that I feel like fifth is just a wild card. The fifth slot. I feel like I know you know at least three probably four I mean well really three because I have one person twice and I think it's just like it that might be just it's so early and we haven't seen anything really shake out yet here and it is there a lot of there are a lot of contenders so it could go in so many different ways this feels like the safe pick for me I mean it is you know I'm very curious to see how well Project Hail Mary will do overall I think I can see it being a best picture contender and then obviously tons of crafts and stuff um ryan gosling i don't know but i think again like sandra hewler is like penelope cruz has like so many movies out um she could is she lead in she's lead in rose and she's leading fatherland supporting in fatherland it's okay so i thought i don't know i thought she was well because movie has both of them so i'm not sure why they would yeah that's true yeah yeah yeah um and so then she's does she have four movies?

33:59Yeah, Digger, of course. Yeah, Digger, remember? You said we weren't going to talk about Digger. Oh, sorry. Weirdly enough, my least favorite performance in Digger, even though she's one of my favorite performers in Digger. It would have been so much easier if Digger had been a success and she was great in it. We could have said, great, we're going to reward her for her full year and now it's more complicated. Yes. Yeah. Well, I don't think it's her fault. I mean, I just think that she didn't have that much to do. No. She did a lot with it. No, I love Project Home Mary. It's like going to be in my top 10 of the year.

34:31And I'm like, I was saying, telling Chris beforehand, like I'm holding the flame alive on it because I think it's really easy to underestimate it right now. It has the challenge we've been talking about all year that like it is in the Odyssey's lane basically everywhere, including for in supporting actress. And I share the dubiousness about Ryan Gosling, even though I had him in my actor lineup when we did this, partly out of stubbornness. But I kind of wonder if she's a more likely acting nominee than him because of the way this category works because of the year that she's had. and it's like a place where you can reward it where it's more complicated and best actor.

35:03Right. She also has the, like yours, like the Harry Styles thing is like one of these scenes in the movie. I think it's like incredibly memorable, her singing that. And I was just like, I don't know. I'm like, you know, is she, if we keep talking about this in Barbie terms, or at least I do probably to death, but I'm like, if Brian Gosling is Margot Robbie in Barbie, then why isn't she America Ferrara in Barbie, right? And she's got also added this whole big year on top of it. I don't know. And I just I agree with you, Katie, like the movie is great. And I know people love it. Like they just love this movie.

35:32So like if they're going to, you know, like it's easier to vote for her for this. And certainly Digger being a flop for her only helps more because then you don't even she's not even really competing with herself here. Right. So I was like, I'm like, I was like, oh, I should really take her out. But I'm like, I think I'm just going to keep her here. Now we're validating you. Yeah. Like, I mean, it's like great. Like, she's so good in it. So like, why not? And I think it's an interesting character, too, because she's the antagonist of the film, but she's not a villain. It's a very interesting relationship between her and Ryan Gosling's character.

36:05There are no real villains in that film except for this extraterrestrial light thing. I don't really understand. It's an amoebas. I don't get it. I liked it. It was cute. The Rock is fun. We love The Rock. The Rock is great. I couldn't tell you what that movie was really about. But yeah, but I thought she was great. Well, and I keep going on about this, but she's an aspirational figure for women in positions of power, just wearing giant sweaters absolutely everywhere and drinking giant coffees and not giving a shit. It's perfect. I love it. OK, so we all had Sandra Hull at number five. Incredible.

36:42That makes it so easy. And Tyler, you have Penelope and La Bola Negra at number four. Yes. I mean, I feel like we've talked about it, but it does sound like it sounds like you're gearing up for double Penelope's. so we'll yeah I think it's right now where it stands I think it's a good chance okay all right so um Chris who do you have a number four I have uh Samantha Morton at number four from the Odyssey all right the only one with her in the top five she's my number three no I've so she's my number three okay great okay well uh I thought she's yeah let's do it she's great she's got her great scene it's an incredibly memorable scene which I think really helps here and she's an actress who's worked forever worked with so many different people and like getting this moment here and I I think they'll bring her back, obviously.

37:22But her story was so compelling, even at the time of release, when she was like, you know, no one calls me. Like, you know, she's got a really great working actor story that I think will really speak to a lot of actors in the industry. And, yeah, like, again, like, if you're talking memorable scenes, like, her scene in The Odyssey is maybe the most memorable, I would say. Just because of, like, the terror and the body horror and the way it's done. And she's so good in it. So I have her at my number four. It is much smaller than Penelope and LeBola Negri, I will say that. Is that true? It is. Penelope has three scenes.

37:54Penelope has three scenes. She has two musical performances and then in the middle, that scene where she kind of has her monologue. So I think it's like, but again, like Samantha Morton, you know, coming out of the gate, everyone was like, Anne Hathaway's got it. And then like Samantha Morton kind of snuck around to the point where people were like, can Anne go lead or she's still going to be supporting? That was, I was on the, should Anne go lead? I understand why it happened the way it did, but yeah. Right, yeah. But no, I agree. Like, she is someone who's worked, she's been around for a long time.

38:26She also has a daughter, technically, in the race, I would say, Esme Creed-Miles. I really thought about putting Esme Creed-Miles in my number 10 slot. Like, I don't think that movie is strong enough to power through an actress who nobody's seen. But like, she's wonderful in Sense of Sensibility. If Variety's not doing an actor-on-actor with the two of them, then people should be fired. Then we'll do it. We'll have a prestige Jackie actor on actor. There you go. This wouldn't be her first nomination. She was nominated twice for Sweet and Lowdown and in America, one that we really forget. Odd year.

39:02That was the Reese Witherspoon year? No, that was the Charlize Theron. It was one of those steamroller years. It's going to be like anyone who gets nominated against Julianne Moore this year where you're like, who else was there? But anyway, it'd be great to have her back. I have an Actors and Actors for her that we could do. Okay. Tom Cruise and her for Minority Report. Oh. Of course. If Tom Cruise starts doing Actors and Actors, I mean, again, I said we weren't going to talk about Digger.

39:29So I would love for him to just get out there and do it because the vibes would be crazy. Yeah, why not? I had Samantha Morton at number three, as did you, Tyler, right? Yes. Okay. So Chris, right back to you for your number three. And my number three is Penelope Cruz for The Invite. Aha. I have her number two. I have her number one Wow That's awesome Should we do this now then? I guess so Let's let Tyler make the case for the win For the invite I had her at number two I've lost track of where we are now Tyler we're at your number two now My number two is Anne Hathaway I guess that makes sense She's my number one We'll scramble a little bit longer Chris your number two is Amanda Severin for you can see everything.

40:15Here's my case for this. I agree. It's unbelievable on face value as we're sitting here in late October recording this because it's completely unprecedented. She's largely herself in the movie but also playing Elizabeth Holmes. And so it's like you could see a little bit of a threadbare case because she's not really acting at times. That said, I think it just takes one group or person to be like, she won. And if that happens, I think there's like, I do think people like Amanda Seifried, I know she only has the one nomination for Mank, but that was great. You see her in these red carpets and just in general, like people really like her.

40:53And I think that goes a long way here. She has an Emmy, but it doesn't count for nothing. Yes, yes. And then, so she also is playing Elizabeth Holmes in this, which is fun, like sure. But I think the stuff she's doing this about acting will really speak to actors. And while it is like a nonfiction film and it's like kind of playing herself in a way, I don't know. I just think everything about it feels like there would be at least a chance to reward her with a nomination for this. And I think people, again, if one person does it or people realize it's OK, the novelty of it will really help, too.

41:22Because you're saying like Los Angeles critics or someone needs to give it to any of these early groups like L.A., New York, whatever, like give her something. I think that will go a long way because then you could be like, I want to I want to be like, I like this. Like, it's cool to nominate her. And like, I like her in this and stuff like that. And I think people want to be part of a club and she would be deserving for a lot of other reasons, too. But I do think that part of it. So that's my case for her getting in. I think the movie is incredibly strong as well. So all of these put together.

41:50That's what I got for her. We're recording this at like peak. You can see everything right now. And who knows? Like I might have an even bigger opening second week and it probably will. And it will go on forever. But Tyler, you I asked you for your thoughts on this for the newsletter. And you said you'd save them for the podcast. So now. Yeah, look, I love I love Amanda Seyfried. So, I mean, she's the best. She's the best. Anne Lee was one of my favorites last year. I consider this justice for Anne Lee. I don't think that it's a performance. Like, the performance element of it is very minor. I don't even think it is elevated to the level that she brought to the dropout.

42:24It's like two or three recreation scenes. And then, I mean, look, when she yells the line, I think he was a pussy. I levitated in my seat. I was so, I was like, I can't believe. My crowd was laughing so hard I could barely hear it. It was amazing. Did she know that this happened? Like, has she seen this? Like, is she prepared? Like, it's going to get worse. Like, I was just like, oh, my God. Because, like, look, I mean, the movie to me is even less about Elizabeth Holmes and more about Billy Evans to me. My takeaway was, like, I'm watching a red-pilling happen in real time. I am very, very concerned for their children.

43:03that's I mean again but like and I knew I knew that Amanda was going to be in the film it was spoiled for me many months ago in a roundabout way that we could talk offline and so I kind of went in expecting her participation participation to be one thing and then it turned into something completely different but the parts that were completely different the parts that are memorable are not an acting performance to me. Or are they? Is anyone really being themselves? Then it's not a documentary. That part is... We have to figure out... Look, I mean, the genre classifications exist for a reason. We need to be able to...

43:47If she's reading a script, then it's not documentary. It's a mockumentary. I don't know if I think she's reading a script so much as everyone who is on camera is performing themselves. I feel like Nathan Fielder, we think of as Nathan Fielder as a character on camera rather than being Nathan Fielder, the actual director of You Can See Everything. Although we're not talking about him as an acting contender for that movie. So maybe there's a distinction there. I do like that messiness does make me wonder if people are going to hesitate. And if like A24 isn't going to lean too hard into the acting thing for her because then it's going to get the documentary branch all riled up.

44:19And then, you know, who knows what might happen from there. Right. I think honestly, look, I think it is I've said this to you for your piece that's coming out. I think it's an incredible documentary. I'm a little bit of a purist about these things. I think that documentaries and narrative features are very different. And, but, you know, I also, I don't care if it's nominated for Best Picture. If it is, great, that's cool. Wait, but you're making it sound like you think only narrative features can be nominated for Best Picture, which is not the case. No, but it's what has happened. Sure, but like, do you think documentaries shouldn't be able to be in Best Picture?

44:53I don't think, I generally speak, like even when I do my top 10 list, I do documentaries separate from my narrative features because I think they're very different. I mean, look, people are comparing Amanda to Maria Bakalova, who was in a mockumentary for Borat and was nominated, although she was in character the entire time. Even though it's improvised, there is a script. She was scripted. I think if Amanda Seyfried were playing herself in a being John Malkovich style movie, then absolutely she should be nominated for that sort of thing. if it's, if I should be a great, incredible, I think. But I think that like appearing in a film and only having two scenes being actually scripted, the rest of it's just like kind of talking head stuff.

45:36Not really talking head, but just like she's talking. I mean, there's not a performance there in the truest sense of the word. Of course, we're all performing. I know. I've got a camera on me right now. Where's my award? The fight scene with Billy, like you think of it as performance, not necessarily like a regular acting thing, but the way that you like go to dinner with someone you don't like, you're just like, fuck this guy. Like I'm, we're going into the arena. So I get like, I, actors don't see that as performing, but it's, you just can't stop talking about it. This is where Chris's argument adds up.

46:05I think. Yeah. I mean, I think you can, yeah, I think it's a documentary to me. It's a documentary. And I think it's a really strong documentary. I think if you think it's a documentary, like, like Tyler is saying, then I think it's not happening, but I think if there's any, I think it's a documentary. I think I, I am not sure what in the movie is legitimate. it honestly I don't think any I don't I think very little is I think very little of Elizabeth Holmes and Billy are I think very little of Nathan Fielder is I think very little of Amanda is wait do you think that like Elizabeth Holmes is performing as directed by Nathan Fielder or just like she is lying because she's a liar I think she's lying because she's a liar I think playing into it and I think Nathan like my thing when I watched the movie we're now going down this but I was like there's so many those those cut uh those those close-up close-up close-up close-up How do we know that's what Nathan Fielder was?

46:52How do we know that's not a reshoot of Nathan Fielder when she's talking to him? I mean, look, he does kind of cheat the scene of him in the beach with her. I mean, the way it's edited, the first time you see the shot, you assume it's Amanda. And then it's late. At least I did. Because I was like, oh, well, because she's already in jail and he's already started talking with Amanda. So this is a... But then it ends at the very end. And you realize it's him and Elizabeth. Yeah. So look, I mean, yes, he's he's a great director. He's you know, he's a manipulator in the way that every great director is, I think.

47:27But, you know, the rehearsal and if you look at the way the Emmys treated the rehearsal, Nathan, for you, it was not a comedy series. It was not a drama series. Yeah, it was a it was a reality or non, you know, scripted whatever. I think it gets very dicey. And like if and then and then because and I don't know how much you quoted me for my email to you, Katie, in your piece, but I will say this. I think it'll be I think that what we're going to see is that Naza is going to win Best Documentary. And I think that A24 sort of knows that Naza is the one that is going to be really hard to beat. So, well, Naza, if you can see everything is nominated for documentary, but loses to Naza, but is nominated for Best Picture and Naza is not nominated.

48:08That's a little weird. and then it's then weird if like you could see everything. I don't know. It's just like that creates a really messiness that then like opens up a whole new can of worms about like what this is. And so I think with Chris saying that like you don't know if any of it is real, then is it even the documentary? Can it be nominated for documentary? That's like, but that's every documentary. I mean, we have to trust that everything is real. That's the thing. I think it's so much more plausible that it doesn't get nominated and that's how NOSA wins. Like that's like, will the documentary branch just say this is too popular?

48:44We're out of here. Like that's when I wrote this piece that as people listen to this is like two weeks old. It was just the right. Is it too big to fail with this documentary branch that loves to make big things suffer? And we don't know yet. And again, I have to ask, like internationally is do people care about Elizabeth Holmes or Nathan Fielder? I mean, Elizabeth Holmes is such an American scammer story. I mean, like she kind of kicked off this era of like the big tech scammers and like this, you know, the the dropout is like one of so many scamming miniseries of varying qualities. I think it's the best.

49:19So but I'm curious, like how far that goes with people outside of the states who don't know who Elizabeth Holmes is. Well, if you think about like so often like a documentary wins because it's about Putin or it's about Gaza or it's like, you know, like having a big topic of being the thing that drives votes. But you can see everything is about documentary and ethics. And like that for this group can be just as compelling a argument as any of the other ones. Yeah, I don't see I definitely see it being nominated for best documentary. I think the document, the doc branch, well, the defectors are going to be on the lower end there.

49:54Because, again, like, I think, again, because what it does, what they hate are the celebrity produced vanity projects, which this directly challenges because it shows the sausage being made in which A24 is willing to offer Billy money until that they finally get him to stand down. That's explain how they get him to either, which is really interesting. Like, we don't know why he decided not to take the money. Right. Because based on everything we know about this guy, he would take the money. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Although another friend pointed out that like they owe so much money that like whatever profits this movie makes would not be enough to get them out of debt.

50:31So maybe it doesn't matter. Anyway, we went really deep talking about the documentary and not the performance. I know. But Chris, you think it's going to happen in conclusion? I think so. I think so. But let's see. So let's go to Tyler's number one, which has been L.P. Cruz and The Invite. Right? Yeah. Yes. I mean, The Invite's one of my top five of the year. I think all four performers in it are so strong in their own way. I think that she, I wouldn't say that she's the best of the four. I think she's just the best in her respective category where the others kind of fall. I think that she, again, it's like such a great comic performance that I think is unexpected from her.

51:12I mean, I've seen her do comedy before, but this is so funny. It's like I just I can already see her the clip of her squeezing the olives as being her like clip package. Just imagine your balls. I just I think it's so good. I think the parent like just the way that I think each character works with one another. She just like has this incredible chemistry with all the three of them. The three other characters, the actors. She's so, so good. So I don't know. It's just like it's mostly vibes for me. and I think that she's the best. Do you think, so my question on The Invite a lot is like, is this something that people love that they want to like find the spot where they reward it?

51:53Whether it's like nominating Olivia Wilde for best actress or best director, which is totally possible. Or is it just overall popular where like there's a lot of different places like Penelope Cruz getting in, screenplay or everything else. I think so. I mean, I think I could see it. I mean, I definitely think it's a best picture nominee. I think I could see, I think Olivia Wilde deserves to be nominated for directing. I think it, She's also one of my favorite performances in the film. I think Ed Norton definitely has a chance to get in because he's, again, someone who's been nominated a bunch of times.

52:22He wrote his own monologue. I think them talking about how much they wrote themselves or improvised probably hurts it as an adapted screenplay contender. But also this film has been remade five times. It's such a universally applicable film that applies to different cultures in so many different ways. it's the story, the original Spanish film that's based on. So it just feels like, to me, just kind of that perfect adult comedy that we all say we want more of that aren't made anymore. And not only was it made, but it actually made money over the summer. It opened well, and people are still talking about it.

53:02So I just think that it's got a lot going for it, to me. You have, I just went and looked at your pundits page as we're talking. You have the invite and they debut as the only two A24 movies getting into Best Picture. Because we've talked kind of idly, like they could have four. If you put Club Kid and you can see everything in the mix, like it could start going really far. I don't know if anyone thinks that four is super likely, but it sounds like the debut and the invite feel like the strongest ones to you. Yeah, and even the debut to me is like kind of on the bubble because it is, I think like Julia Moore is undeniable.

53:32She's going to win. I mean, I'm just going to say that now. There's like, I just don't see another situation, which she does. I've not heard a single person try to make the case for why it wouldn't happen. It's fascinating. I mean, the only thing I could see happening is that I've talked to you about this, Katie. She's a play in New York that she begins at the end of January. So, and you know, A24 does not have the money that Netflix has. It doesn't have the money that Universal or all these bigger studios have. So like, I could see a situation in which Focus spends so much money getting indie out there to get that attention.

54:07But again, like I just don't - But indie's gonna lose that Golden Globe. to Julianne because they turned into a comedy for some reason. Exactly, exactly. And then like, I think that bodes well for Sophie and Clarissa or the lead actress in Possible Love, whose name I can't pronounce. John Duane. Yes, yeah, yeah. Because I haven't written it down or thought about it yet. But I was just thinking about that this week, about how the best actress, like the genre breakup is going to be really interesting there. Yeah, best actress in a drama at the Golden Globes is super fascinating. Good thing there's no supporting actress in a drama or comedy, because where would we put Amanda Seyfried?

54:44The Golden Globes would break the entire season open. Yes. Sorry, Chris, you've been yapping a long time. You have Penelope in the invite. Are you number two also? I have her three, because I have Amanda in the number two. I love her. I think everything Tyler says is dead to rights, right? I feel like she's so great in it. I don't know if she's the best part, but she definitely is, like, the most, maybe most memorable, and she's just, like, kind of a firecracker in the movie. I mean, it would be a great win if she won. so like I'd love for that to happen I think she's so good in the movie and I'm glad it's like heartening that the movie is really hung around and I think that is helpful and I'll be curious to see if it extends like I think Olivia Wilde getting in for actress sure like I think that seems right but what if I mean like Seth Rogen we talked about this way back on the best actor race and like he's just hanging around I appreciate you holding that like he's so good in it too he's underappreciated as an actor I could see him getting something like not an Oscar nomination but like what if he shows Critics Choice might go for them.

55:36Or, like, SAG or Critics Choice or Golden Globe, something like that. Yeah, actor and a comedy. I haven't, like, looked at who the competition is for that. Oh, I mean, it's, I mean, Digger will be a comedy, right? Yes. I assume so. Michael won't be, which is... Michael won't be, yeah. So, I'm assuming you both have Anne Hathaway as number one? Yeah, I was going to say one more Penelope thing. Oh, sure, sure. I feel like Vicky Christine in Barcelona hasn't come up with good reason, but it is such a similar role. Yes. Like, Firecracker or someone who's coming in to mess with all of these stuffy Americans, which is, she's really good at it.

56:09So if she wins twice for bringing that vibe to a film, Christoph Waltz did the same thing. Why shouldn't Penelope Cruz? She also feels like, that character feels like the most level-headed of the four. I know that's a relative term. I even said that to Penelope during a Q &A and she looked at me like I was insane. But I was like, compared to the other three, you are the most normal. Shoot, but although I would also say that someone who is as smart and put together as this character is presented to be would never engage with these maniacs in the first place. Of course, yeah. Obviously, it has to happen for the movie to happen, but she knows better.

56:41Right. No, Chris and I both have Anne Hathaway at number one. I just, I don't see her not winning. Like, I've been, a staunch believer in the Odyssey is going to come back strong. I don't think there's any evidence that it won't. They will be everywhere. She's got to have that baby at some point, but then she'll be right back out promoting it. I was told she's back to work in January. Oh, goodness. So she'll be back in time for the Globes. Yes, Scott, good for you, Anne. God bless you. I could not imagine having a baby at our advanced age. She's better than me in so many ways. She's great in the film.

57:11She's had an amazing year. She has had an amazing career at this point. I think that her having two supporting actress Oscars is kind of wrong because she's a star and she should have a lead, which is part of why I thought she should go lead for this. And she, as I said last week, I stand by Robert Pattinson being a supporting actor, frontrunner until proven otherwise. but I do think logically like the odyssey is going to need is going to win an acting award it's going to be this when she's such a slam dunk space to acknowledge it um I mean I think the invite coming on strong and like wanting to have something to give to it is a good argument from what you're just saying Tyler but she's she feels undeniable to me as like a really strong performance and a really strong contender and someone who um we're all kind of grateful to have around right now yeah but again to your point like it's Penelope is also a lead actor to me so So like the idea that this would be her second supporting actress win if she wins.

58:04It has literally just now occurred to me that Anne Hathaway is playing Penelope in as a biggest Penelope Cruz. It's three Penelopes in your best supporting actress lineup, Chris. That's crazy. Sorry, Chris, you make your case for Anne. I mean, everything you said, I totally endorse. I think the fact that she's also a big enough role that we were like, is it a lead, even if it's really not, helps to. and I just think she had such a big year and it's such an obvious win you know like everybody else who's had like multiple nominations this year potentially and even Penelope you could say Penelope Cruz right for two like in there as well I just feel like this is like the most clear path to a win in my opinion like I'm just like you know she's it's a great way to recognize her for all the other things she's done and she has the great scene like I want Odysseus like that's that's like a great moment in the movie and you know like she just like chews the whole movie up I think I think she's great in it like it's so she's like really like it's not just that it's like a best picture front row she's like legit good also which I think is helpful so that's like another reason why I think she should win I mean I feel like it is kind of a toss up between the two of them in a way and I would be happy with either of them winning because they're both great yeah yeah I just bought all in on the Odyssey like Like, we've spent all these months talking about all these other things.

59:25Great movies that I want to be part of the conversation. But I just feel like in January it's going to be like, well, yeah, it's The Odyssey. Like, of course it's The Odyssey. I'm curious. I mean, I, you know, I feel like, I don't know. I feel like people are not as jazzed about it as they were about Oppenheimer. I actually like it more than Oppenheimer. I'm not a huge Christopher Nolan fan. And this one I feel like I really, really loved. um but also like i mean i loved it on paper but i don't know if it would crack my top 10 of the year because there are other movies that like stirred me in different ways and so that's sort of why i don't know i'm a little bit cautious on the odyssey steamrolling its way i think certain categories it's like gotta lock but i don't know i'm i'm excited here's how it shakes out oppenheimer lost a bunch of those craft oscars to poor thing so i'm excited for it to like win costumes because Oppenheimer did production design, all that stuff.

1:00:17Yes, yeah. As much as I want Project Hail Mary to win some of those, but different conversation. Here we are. We've gone, once again, long on our actors. I hope everyone's been enjoying listening to these epics. If you all sat through the Odyssey and you can see everything, you can listen to our long-ass podcast. That's right. And all of a sudden and Possible Love and La Bola Negra. I mean, all these movies are long as hell. Yeah, you know, credit to Wild Horse 9. It gets in and out. That's one of its many strings. The debut in 90 minutes. Love that. Fatherland in 88. That's true. That rose also really short.

1:00:50We support those as well. Tyler, this was extremely fun. Thank you for coming to do this with us. And thank you for being the most quotable person I get to quote in the newsletter. I hope you continue to do it. Thank you. Before I let you guys go, I'm going to be back in a moment with John Turturro for Only Living Pickpocket in New York. Any Turturro fans on the line with me? I think he's tremendous in this movie. Yes. I think he's a nominator. I think he's, I love him. I think he's going to be nominated. I love this movie. Also under Undy Hundy, as I like to say. A short, quick, quick film. It packs so much into.

1:01:25It packs so much. You get a bonus cameo at the end you weren't expecting. I mean, it's got a lot to give. It's a real gem. It was very fun talking to him about it. So stick around. I'll be back in a moment with my conversation with John Turturro.

1:01:40Hey, Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now, I don't know if you've heard, but Mint's premium wireless is$15 a month. But I'd like to offer one other perk. We have no stores. That means no small talk. Crazy weather we're having. No, it's not. It's just weather. It is an introvert's dream. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three-month plan, $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first three months only. Then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See MintMobile.com. To go back to when this movie starts with you and Noah Segan, I think you said it was really kind of four months of conversations between the two of you before the film really even started getting made.

1:02:23What was that process like? Well, I mean, I read the script a few times, and I thought it was a wonderful script. I read so many scripts, and I was like, they kept telling me, you're going to get this script. It's really good. and my agent and I both said, wow, let's read it again to make sure. But I thought just the structure and the maturity of the writing, the quality of the dialogue and the structure that, you know, it takes place almost in Aristotelian time, if not 24 hours, but 36. I like those Greek plays, that structure. I like it. Wait, did Aristotle write things that took place in 24 hours?

1:03:03I don't think I knew this. Those were some of the rules, the Aristotelian character, chorus, music, the poetry. There's like six things in it. I think I named a few. I think dance was part of it, or spectacle was part of it. Oh, sure. Yeah, but I just like the way those are structured. And I thought there's this extreme tension and then there's this tenderness that's juxtaposed. And the whole idea of a person that time has, everything has changed. Personally, professionally, the technological world is, it's not the world that he knew, you know. And he doesn't really, you know, want to understand it in some ways.

1:03:56And what he does is becoming smaller and smaller because people don't really carry cash. So unless you can open that technology, it's a different thing. There's watches. There's certain things you can do. This movie made me really want to start wearing a watch. Like there's just the admiration. Yeah, it's gorgeous. I mean, it's so classy when you see this. And it's also about clocks. and about wine. Yeah. And also the idea of someone, you know, I hate when people say, oh, the character has to change. I don't think people change. I think they either, they can enlarge or they can shrink. They can grow.

1:04:38And that he finally has realized within the last, I don't know, five years or whatever his life, what it is to take care of someone. Yeah. To use that word, that most ambiguous of words, to love someone. Yeah. It has to do with sacrifice. And he's never done that before. So I thought it brought up so many things of someone who's lived through a lot of loss and good times, bad times, being married, being a parent, you know, being surrounded by lots of ghosts. Being a guardian of someone. Also caretaking for, you know, for people. two different people in my family and just how solitary that is. Yeah.

1:05:29Well, it's, there's so much in it, the way that you're talking about it, you know, you can sit down and read something and it sparks all these different things. So do you then read it and then get on the phone or meet with Noah and talk about all this stuff? I had to meet him for lunch. Got it. Okay. He came to my restaurant, Bar Pini, which I go to. And that's a good way to get to know someone, see what they order, see if they have a three hour lunch. You know, that's, That's the way to do it. And then I liked him. And then I met everyone at T Street. And I thought they were very supportive. Because you don't know if you can execute what he wrote.

1:06:03Of course. And then he shared all these books about pickpocketing, including the one that was the most instructive was Whiz Mob. The guy who wrote The Big Con. And the guy interviewed. It's like an anthropological study. All these different people. Men, women, teens. their backgrounds of being, you know, broken homes, orphanages, growing up on the street, and forming these little groups that would bail each other out, would work with the police sometimes and say, hey, let me work this little shift, and I'll give you something from it. So I really liked that, and I met this guy, Apollo Robbins, which I read a profile in The New Yorker, and Noah and I contacted him and he helped us a lot.

1:06:56He helped me a lot, gave me all kinds of exercises. Was he happy to share his secrets or is there like a protection thing? He's a magician, he does cybersecurity. He's a brilliant guy. Yeah. And what he can do with his hands is he's like watching a concert pianist. He would take things off of me every day and I would be like, I don't feel it. And a lot of it's a trip, you know. But he showed me how to, you know, you're looking at it. It's like you're doing a psychological profile of the person you're going to approach, especially if you have two of you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes the man did it.

1:07:37Sometimes the woman did it. Sometimes because her hand was smaller. A lot of times it's about how you stick your, you don't actually take it out. Sure. A lot of times it's like you just hold it if you put it in the right. And if the person goes, it's gone. Oh, sure. But they never feel you having your hand there at all. Yeah. And there were different kinds of pockets. There were, you know, the vertical tight pockets now. And men, you know, carried cashier and diamond tie clips and pins. Sure. Push on it and let it drop. You could push, like hold the thing. you know the thing was not to jostle them but then we drop into like like a newspaper you know yeah well i mean the subway is the perfect place for that because there's so many people bumping into each other all the time that's right and so you know i i practiced on people that wouldn't arrest me so when i was on the subways i was interested in where i could do that and and i would get close to it and then i would say well i don't want to get arrested or yeah you know say is this yours?

1:08:48Does it change the way that you ride the train? As a New Yorker, you're on the train? Because the people watching is always great, but I imagine when you're in the headspace of this character, at least, you're watching people in a whole different way. Every day, I was like, oh my God, I could do that so easily. We're all distracted. Yeah. But I thought that's part of the movie, and then the other part of the movie is the people, they give the word to someone, and it means something. You know, they try to help each other out. and there's a whole element of what you would do if you care for someone and how much you sacrifice.

1:09:27So I found the climax of the movie, someone saying, well, I'm willing to sacrifice, but at the same time, I'm going to do something that's going to take care of someone. I'm going to play my hand. I'm going to play it well. I'm going to give myself away. and part of life is giving stuff away. Yeah, and knowing when to sacrifice and when to hold on. I want to go back to what you were saying earlier about you read the script and you think it's great, but you don't know if the person can execute it. And you've had a career long enough. Presumably you have read great scripts that don't get executed well.

1:10:05How do you meet Noah or the T Street team or get on the set or anything to kind of have that sense of, I trust you to bring this across the finish line? I think preparation. we worked all together with Sam Levy they storyboarded, we worked on the costumes we worked on the set I was part of the casting process also giving the script to some people that I knew Giancarlo and Steve and encouraging them to take a good read so by the time we hit it we were ready and you know right away if a director starts sweating But Noah's been on a lot of sets. He worked on crews and he was very calm and he was resilient and he kind of knew what he wanted.

1:10:51But it was very collaborative. Yeah. The whole like dance sequence, he gave me a whole compilation of music to listen to. And a lot of times I would say, play that song while I'm walking so I can walk to the rhythm. And then I realized when I was writing my own backstory that what did they do, Rosie and him? They went out shopping. they wore clothes, they went to eat, they would go out dancing. And I was like, this is like a scene. Maybe I could do something that she could hear me and maybe seeing me. And I know that for taking care of people. Yeah. Yeah. That you're acting as if that they are reacting to you.

1:11:34It's kind of like a love scene. And so I tried something in my studio, this studio and I sent it to Noah and he was like I love that if we have time I said well you have to buy the song because I know that song when it first came out so this is an indie movie the music budget probably isn't that big there was three songs they bought one I think they got for and then they had to get the right composer our editor Hilda who did American Fiction she was excellent but that's the thing of collaboration we had every little time to shoot that scene, but we decided at the end of the day to try to do it all in one.

1:12:14And I, we blocked it and I said, okay, just let me do it. And I said, I don't know what I'm going to do, but you just follow me and I'm going to go to the bed. And, and it worked out really beautifully. And I was hoping it would help. And I think it did. There's another scene that I wanted to ask you about that maybe it's kind of a deliberate mirror image, the one with Tatiana Maslany that comes later in the film that I think you've said, you know, you wanted to not over prepare for that and kind of be able to get into that moment and do that together. Can you, can you talk about how you guys jumped into that scene?

1:12:45Well, she's a wonderful actress. We were lucky to get her. You just worked together on stage, right? Earlier this year? No, just recently. Yeah, that's great. And then in the statement too. So I've worked together now three times. That was my first time. I had met her years before for lunch and she came prepared and I said, you know let's just block it and the way i was feeling i could see it in her face i said let's just shoot it i don't want to rehearse i said i know she knows a lot you know yeah and she said i agree and i said okay did she have a feeling of like i'm ready to go like i don't want to like make it stale you know i want to i it's an it's an encounter it's not like and so we did the master and i said we don't need to do a lot then we'll go on her and then you can go on me And it was like it really was in real time.

1:13:37And what she brought was really miraculous. That seems pretty incredible. That's hard to do. Yeah. You just show up and do that. And she was incredible. I mean, it was sort of, if you're a parent or whatever, it was because it wasn't just angry or whatever. There's all this yearning and like, you don't want to open up your heart to someone broken it. You know what I mean? And as other person knows, they know that's why they show up. It's like, I want to say something to you before I disappear. There's not enough indifference to have to. It was one of those kind of miraculous scenes of it just happened.

1:14:20And it was, it was really overwhelming. Yeah. to do it's hard for me to actually even watch it i'm like wow that's because a lot of people in different capacities go through something like that sure you know with their their parent of yeah you know they it's it's hard to be a parent definitely you seem to have done i mean better than your character uh the very least yeah well that seems sounds like you thinking like a director in that moment and obviously that's something you and noah had a you know good relationship to be able to do. Yeah, I mean, I would sort things out. And if you work in a collaborative way, if a director said, no, you got to do it that way, you know, then it would have shut you down.

1:15:02Sure. You know, the faucets were open. Leave them open. Let it go. And so you don't want to shut your director brain off when you're acting. You kind of have that. I do. Okay. But that's just an approach. That's not even a directorial thing. That's just saying, I think it'll be better if Tatiana said, I'm all for it. Yeah. Because it's the scene between both of us. It's not me just wanting to do it. She's got to want to do it, too. Yeah. Well, you've also, you know, when you're doing supporting roles where you might be coming in for a day or two the way that Tatiana was, you've been in that kind of opposite spot.

1:15:37If you have to come in there, you've got to be ready. You've got to jump into a production that's already underway. In this case, you're in the reverse. Yeah. I'm curious about what it's like, you know, being at the center of it. And if you kind of have moments like that. Okay. It's easier because you're there every day. And it's like when I was in Barton Fink, I was acting with all these great actors that would come in, we'd rehearse on the weekends or whatever. You're relaxed and you want the best out of your partner. You're on your home plate and they're all coming in to you. Yeah, that's right.

1:16:05Once you're connected and you're in it, you're, you know, I mean, maybe you might hit a speed bump, but it's harder to come in for a day, you know. Like a supporting role throughout, you just have to keep it in your head. Sure. You don't work. for a week or something like that yeah that always seems crazy to me if you're like on location and you don't work for two weeks then you got to come back and i'm sure you've made things like that that seems nuts that's that that's not good it's not but this movie is what 26 days total so we didn't really have that most people came in we shot their scenes yeah well that's good for them and good for me yeah and then what's you know when you're when you're number one on the call sheet when you're in that position you have the comfort of being you know on your home team like we were saying, but also what responsibility do you feel for the people who are coming in or for anybody else?

1:16:52Like what's the difference of the job? I feel it's very important to make them feel comfortable and to know that I'm going to work with them. And I would never, you know, and to be as egalitarian in your approach as possible. I think that's important. You are one of the leaders, you know, of setting the tone. Like when I did the night of, you know, I'm going to set the tone, You know what I mean? And if someone's going to get pushed around, then I would either speak to them or speak up for them. And that's happened. I've taken that position because early on I worked for very abusive directors and I was like, that's not good for anybody.

1:17:37And I think when people are relaxed, it's possible they can do more. Yeah. When you're tense, you feel a vision of expression is limited. But how does everyone stay calm when you're shooting on the street of New York, where famously someone's going to ruin your take by honking a horn? You've got to incorporate it. Someone says something to me, I'll go like, oh, that's one of my neighbors. Unless someone's a real, you know, starts filming you and stuff. And there are people like that, but most people aren't that way. Yeah. Most people. But some of these phones, these people will start, you know, doing that.

1:18:16And they would tell them you're not allowed to, you know. But most people aren't that way. But sometimes you got to take in, this is the world. We're on the street. Life is going on, you know. And I think the more grounded and connected, it's like you're taking an elevator and you're going down. You're not going up. You're going into the, you know, trying to land into the basement. and then maybe go into the sub-basement. You know what I mean? And maybe there's something underneath that basement. So once you're grounded and you're aware of the world around you and you're taking it in, but you know where you're coming from, you can do a lot.

1:19:00You can get energy from it too. And you guys shot on the actual subway, right? Yeah, we did some shots where we just, we rented train and then for the dialogue scenes, but then we did a lot of stuff. We just jumped on the train. Yeah. Well, I feel like I love that. I, I, I loved it. Well, I mean, everyone who's ever ridden the subway, you see the craziest stuff you've ever seen in your life and everyone just goes about their business. I feel like you guys can get away with anything. You could you could do anything. People don't even, you know, whatever it is, it's it's but it's invigorating in some ways because you're not with all extras and things like that.

1:19:36Yeah. It's part of the extras to have that very human, you know, behavior coming from somewhere, going. Sure. You're having to like, you know, figure out what to do with your hands and act like you're. Exactly right. That's one of the hardest things to do. Yeah. When do you figure that out as an actor? What to do with your hands? I try to figure out what is my character's center physically. You know, how does that person work? You know, some people are here, some people are here. some people their pelvis so once I figure out the physicality and I have the right costume then you'll figure out your hands well this character is so agile and you're talking about the fingers but also a dancer and those things so where does that center of gravity come in?

1:20:23does he think of his physicality different than maybe other characters you've played? he has a physical job when you have a physical job you know you you have to use your body yeah to you know skirt through slide disappear maybe jog away you know what I mean or look like you you're just walking away and you're going away yeah that's why I always wanted to do the action whether they saw it or not because the way I would walk away would be different if I had it you know so because movement I think it reveals things. Oh, absolutely. And it also brings kind of a joy when you watch someone like walk a certain way.

1:21:07You're like, wow, that's really cool. You know, like because they're going somewhere. And I think actors in the 30s and 40s, the cameras, the big Mitchell cameras were so big, they had that shield around them because they were noisy, but everyone had a great walk. Oh, yeah. If you look at it, if you watch Barbara Stanwyck walk, she has a great walk. You know, Robert Mitchum or James Cagney. Everyone came from vaudeville dancing theater and physicality is a big part of their repertoire, toolbox, their toolbox. That's right. Yeah. Talking about the responsibility of being number one on the call sheet, but there's I wondered if you felt a responsibility to the city.

1:21:55You know, New York movies, they've been around for decades, but it always feels like all movie productions are threatening to move somewhere else and you don't get to capture the city the same way that it used to anymore. Like, do you do you did you want to make sure this movie got the city right? Well, yeah, I mean, we all did when everyone worked really hard for that. I mean, that we wound up in the five boroughs. I don't know if that was the plan. We were trying to get the best locations possible somewhere in in boroughs that were supposed to be in the other borough. but I think what you see in the movie is sort of the underbelly of New York of the people who keep this city, you know, humming.

1:22:34And I love being in these neighborhoods which were full of different ethnic groups and different kinds of people. Like the pawn shop, for example, these two ladies run the pawn shop and, you know, people would come in to do business and we'd say, it's closed, you know. We broke the window and they were like, is everything okay? You know, is, I don't know, Betty and Susan all right? And it was kind of great. It was like a living thing and you were in it. So it's somehow through osmosis, you feel it maybe more. So, yeah. Yeah. A closing question for you that's kind of about New York because obviously the New York Knicks are everywhere this year.

1:23:20But I was thinking about how much basketball that you have been invested in following. And I wonder if you see any connections between basketball and the work that you do. If anything part of your brain sparks to basketball in the same way that it does to acting. I think when you watch a team that passes the ball and plays defense together, that picks up, that switches, especially when the ball goes back and forth and it's a collective, that's a beautiful thing. where there's not just one, you know, great player. Maybe in the clutch, that's the person who's going to shoot or whatever. And I think teamwork, you know, the collective isn't always celebrated.

1:23:58What's celebrated is individuality so much. So I love that, you know, whether it's the Liberty or the Knicks or whatever. But when you see them actually functioning together, it's a beautiful thing. It's like there's a connection. and I really, that's when I like basketball the best. Yeah, I feel like as a sport, it has the most in common with like theater where you're seeing characters and faces and you can get so close to them. Like there's drama in that sport in a way that there's not in other ones. That's right. Well, and I also feel like anyone who saw the Knicks, you know, in the finals, it's like been blessed for the rest of the year.

1:24:36So I hope that has felt that way for you. But the good karma will continue for the rest of the year. Yeah, it has.

1:24:45that does it for today's episode we'll be back next week in the meantime this podcast is edited by brett fox and produced by brett fox and me our theme music is by dave gonzalez thanks again to our co-host this week tyler coates subscribe to the prestige junkie newsletter at the anchor.com subscribe to this podcast on apple spotify youtube anywhere else you get your podcast there's a video version if you're not watching it already great stuff in there in the meantime we'll see you next week

1:25:42We'll see you next time. months only. Then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at MintMobile.com.