Nick Offerman on His Double Emmy Nominations and How to Find the Nice People in Hollywood

0:00Nick Offerman: And so getting to play Jinx the wrestler. Any questions? I didn't think so. They even covered my tattoos and made versions of them that were 30 years fresher. Wow. Hi, everyone. I'm Katie Rich, and this is a special bonus episode of the Prestige Junkie podcast. Today, I am so excited to share my conversation with Nick Offerman, who is a double Emmy nominee this year, both for his role on the Netflix limited series Death by Lightning and on the Apple comedy series Margo's Got Money Troubles. He's also an Emmy winner for The Last of Us for that one really incredible breakout episode. You remember the one and obviously a TV icon, thanks to Parks and Recreation.

0:48Nick Offerman: He's also just very busy. You really never know where you're going to see him pop up. So it was exciting to get to talk to someone as prolific as him about how he chooses his projects, who he wants to work with, what he wants to do with himself at this point in his career, and also what he can bring to these shows that really I don't think anyone else could. He is lovely to talk to, as you might expect. Hear all of that and much more in my conversation with Emmy nominee Nick Offerman.

1:17I honestly wanted to start by asking about this play that you've been doing this summer, because it seems like, I mean, I guess I'm thinking of it like summer break, even though it's a ton of work, but given how many screen projects you've done over the last couple of years, what is jumping into something like this alongside your wife and doing something? It feels like it must be totally different.

1:35Nick Offerman: It is. I mean, we both started in theater in Chicago, in fact. And so there's a wonderful sense of coming home. And it is like a fun sort of being away at camp feeling. We've come to Chicago to do a musical of all things, which is very much Megan's bag, but it's my first big professional musical. So it's been super fun. And the show is just wickedly funny. Like the audiences are just eating it up, which makes it really fun to do, which is nice because it's also really exhausting to do eight shows a week. Because my memories of doing theater here in my 20s, of course, involved youth. And I was like, this is going to be great.

2:20Nick Offerman: I'll have one pitcher of beer and two pizzas every night. And it turns out my body has changed a bit since the 90s. Well, looking back at, again, like your last couple of years, I was kind of blown away by just how much you've been working. Like the amount of credits is kind of staggering. And I wonder if you and Megan are kind of the same of just this like, well, take on the next thing, move on? Like there's a workhorse energy that feels like it's coming from both of you, where if you, if you stay still for too long, you'll get bored and have to find something else. Well, I mean, we do enjoy having time off as well.

2:54Nick Offerman: And, um, these days because we, we get lucky with our jobs. I mean, I think what we're guilty of is, uh, having, we have a hard time saying no to really good writing. When these projects come our way, like Death by Lightning or Margo's Got Money Troubles, I say, okay, this is my dream. This is why I went to theater school, was to try and be involved in this kind of storytelling. And so then we have to learn to say, okay, I'm going to work on this thing for five months. Then let's take September for ourselves and go go canoodle in our airstream by the ocean. That sounds amazing. Is that what you're going to do when this show is over?

3:44Nick Offerman: It is, yeah. We have some canoodling lined up on the calendar. Congratulations. I believe the order of things is that you're on the set of Death by Lightning when Margo's Got Money Troubles comes along. So maybe it makes us start talking about Death by Lightning. Because I do think that question of like, this script is great, but you've got to move to Budapest for five months and have all that hair on your face and all these other things is, maybe it's an easy yes, but it seems like a lot to sign yourself up for. Well, I mean, I love having facial hair because it's a very effective part of what Mother Nature has given me that requires no effort on my part.

4:23Nick Offerman: I could just show up and that part of the job is already done. So I'm grateful when I can have evocative facial hair. And that's a great example. Mike Makowski adapted that show from Candace Millard's great book about President Garfield. So when that job came in, it just was this killer role and this wonderful historical piece produced by Bernie Caulfield and the Game of Thrones producers. It just was a really lush production, working with these actors that I admire and with Matt Ross, who directed it. So it was kind of a no-brainer. But what happens then in our household is we have a two-week rule.

5:05Nick Offerman: So we say, okay. And Megan, we made this whole plan where we picked a beautiful apartment in Budapest. Megan picked it. And we were going to have this lovely sort of European vacation while I shot this show. And then, of course, once everything was all lined up, then she got cast in the Righteous Gemstones for the whole season of that show, shooting in Charleston, South Carolina. And so suddenly then it becomes very arduous where we're commuting to see each other to maintain our two-week rule. And so, you know, there are real pros and cons. It's very dreamy to get to work on things like that. But then to maintain a healthy marriage and household, it requires a lot of hard work and maintenance.

5:54Nick Offerman: Otherwise, you just get lazy and, I guess, start hugging the costume ladies. I know that Charleston Airport, I know there are not a lot of huge jets landing there as a small place. So not the easiest to get to from Budapest. It is tricky. Yeah. I mean, from what I've heard from other people who've shot in Budapest is that you kind of are in like a mini L.A. because there's so many productions going on at the same time. I don't know what that was for you, but it seems like an odd little Hollywood outpost. It is for sure. And it's it's beautiful. I mean, the cruise there, the filmmaking history is really rich, and they do a really nice job.

6:32Nick Offerman: And it's a beautiful city, very cosmopolitan, wonderful to walk around in. But then at the same time, you know, while famously nothing, so little is being shot in Los Angeles, it also begs that question of like, really? It's really cheaper to bring us all all the way here to Eastern Europe. But it is nice to see familiar faces around the Danube. Yeah. I mean, I was looking at some of the press you were doing for Death by Lightning, and I think you went on C-SPAN or like an event hosted by C-SPAN or something like that. I'm thinking about all the history nerds who you encounter when you make something like that.

7:11What kind of education is that process of like meeting a whole bunch of people who know way more about Chester Arthur than you ever would have thought a normal person would?

7:18Nick Offerman: I mean, I find it fun. I love history, but I love to consume it. But fortunately, I can immediately take myself out of any debate because I have terrible recall for granular facts. And so I love to be part of something like Death by Lightning. And actually, that was at the White House. uh candace millard and i did a a talk um to a to a bunch of congressional staffers and and it was very uh tony and sort of uh it felt like a great privilege to get to yeah to speak on the subject but i can the thing is i say look we've got candace millard here like you you are all the smarty pantses and i'm the i'm the clown so i can talk to you about the clowning part of things and make you laugh, but then let's turn to Candace for some actual information.

8:14Nick Offerman: So I love being involved in the retelling of history, but I also love to ask people a lot smarter than I am to keep me straight on the facts. Yeah. I mean, is that the process on the set as well? You've got this script that's got all this great research in there, but are you kind of constantly learning on a daily basis when you're taking part in something like this? Kind of, yeah. I mean, we're all, It was a bunch of sort of theater nerds, Mike Shannon, Matthew McFadden, Betty Gilpin, Bradley Whitford, Shea Wiggum. We all read extra books about our characters and the story, and then we all share that information, as well as with Mike Makowski, who annoyingly was only like 30 when he wrote this thing.

8:59Nick Offerman: He's way too smart. Don't like it. Yeah, it's not cool. nothing before 45 years old please um but and so then it becomes really fun like the you know just little anecdotes of oh you guys this is the do you know about this you know this thing that happened um and we have these other actors showing up jelko evanick uh as a guy named dr dr bliss his parents named him Doctor and then he became a doctor so his name was Doctor Doctor Bliss but yeah that makes it really it breathes life into history it makes it really fun and human yeah when you get weird names like that how can anyone think history is boring America especially is so crazy it's true to this very day one of the I think the best scenes in the season it's not third or fourth episode before Garfield dies it's just when you know your character is trying to get out of this relationship with Garfield and he's like is rejected and like just the basic human kindness that Chester Arthur encounters that it seems like he never quite believed could exist and I liked thinking about Shea Wiggins character Roscoe Conkling how it might not work on him like if you were just nice to him he probably wouldn't become a better person but I love just the belief in what kindness can do that comes out of that character and how it affects yours.

10:25And I'm just curious what it is to play that because kindness can be a tough thing to show on screen sometimes.

10:30Nick Offerman: Well, it's interesting. I mean, that's what I love the most about Chester Arthur's story is that he started out his career as a really good guy and he passed some different sort of civil service reforms in New York City. He famously, there was a sort of early,

10:54Nick Offerman: discrimination case with a lady of color on a trolley car that he came down very much on the right side of equal rights and matters of equality. And then he was tempted into the dark side and became this much darker character. But all along, people like the Garfields and other people that he was in correspondence with always saw this good in him and would say to him, like, you used to be, there's a good guy in there. We know there's a good guy in there. Why don't you get your stuff together, pull yourself up by your own bootstraps? And so then when Garfield died and suddenly Chester Arthur found himself leading the country, it was really interesting to see him influenced by these people that never lost faith in him.

11:47Nick Offerman: And it was really very generous on their parts, you know. And Mike Makowski wrote a lot of that story into the act of Betty Gilpin slapping me across the face. Like, that contained all of these people saying, quit your crying, get it together, like, you know better than this. get it together and become a leader. And he did. And it was a really cool story. It was, it was great to hear, you know, in the light of how much corruption there is in politics, there was then and there is now that you can say, hey, you know, better than this. Like, why don't you, why don't you be decent? You know, why don't you think, why don't you think of everybody for once?

12:30Nick Offerman: And for a minute, he did. You ever encounter anybody like that in the entertainment industry who you know, knows the right thing to do and maybe could be capable of doing it again? Well, fortunately, it's interesting. I've had really good luck. I think because my big break, as it were, was Parks and Recreation, all the shows around Mike Schur are so good-hearted. I sort of, I don't know, I got in bed with people who were making storytelling for generally the right reasons. Like they were driven by the sensibility of like what is life all about, taking care of one another, you know, things that are – I don't – I'm not attracted to the sort of sex and violence or the more superficially attractive parts of the business.

13:23Nick Offerman: And so I – it's been a long time since I've run into anybody that's unsavory in that way that I'm like – And honestly, you know, when I'm lucky enough to get offered jobs, sometimes a name will come up and I'll say, oh, no, no, thank you. I do not want to. I know about that person and they are they're on the bad side of Chester Arthur. So give that to some other lucky plumber. Well, I mean, speaking of Parks and Rec and Betty Gilpin, she should have been nominated for Death by Lightning. But the fact that she got that nomination for Widow's Bay, I feel like it's some kind of justice for all the great work she's done this year.

14:02Nick Offerman: For sure. I mean, the whole there's so much really great stuff being made, TV and film. And so it's gotten, I mean, during Parks and Recreation, like 15 years ago, I remember reading Alan Sepinwall saying, I'm getting paid to watch all the shows. He was a critic for Rolling Stone. And I can't see everything. It's my job. I do it full time. And I can't see everything. And this is 15 years ago. So by now, there's so many great shows, there's so much good work happening that I feel just, you know, like Parks and Rec, for example, also never really got much awards attention. And so I learned to live outside of that mentality where I'm like, well, what matters is people really love this work.

14:57Nick Offerman: And so I am thrilled for Betty because, I mean, there are five other titles that she's been so incredible in. And Shea Wigham as well. I mean, he's one of my favorite actors working. But his career is perhaps could be considered too smart to fit into the popular culture of easy award nominations. But, you know, I'm just happy to, like, be on a show that makes it all the way to people's screens. And they say, hey, you guys should check this out. It's about a real historical president, and it's quite interesting and funny. Yeah, or even, you know, about OnlyFans and single parents and wrestling and Vegas, and there's a youth pastor in there.

15:49When you kind of realize how much Margo is about, it's almost like, how can something like this even get on the air and pull all of those things off in one's place? It's kind of a marvel.

15:59Nick Offerman: It really is. And that's why my wife and I both just really focus on the writing. Because, you know, now there are companies that are like using the algorithm to to figure out, you know, OK, here's what we need. Two superheroes, you know, a topless lady, whatever this and this. And there are all these shows that are trying sort of for the wrong reasons or by the wrong algebra to come up with a hit, as it were. And Death by Lightning never should have been greenlit. It's crazy that Netflix let us make that. Four one-hour episodes about this slice of history that is incredible. but I've been involved in pitching a lot of shows recently and that show never should have seen the light of day.

16:52Nick Offerman: And the subject matter that you just rattled off for Margo's Got Money Troubles, same thing. If you get in the elevator or by the water cooler and you're like, okay, we've got a single mom, we've got OnlyFans, we've got, you know, it just sounds like, oh, sure, that sounds like a lot of popular culture. But what it requires is the genius of our novelist Rufy Thorpe, who wrote the book we adapted, and then David E. Kelly and Eva Anderson and our other writers to then take that and see how to turn it into this incredibly gripping television, which David is, you know, so historically amazing at. Yeah.

17:31Well, and the way you described, I think, getting the script sent to you is being like, why isn't everyone trying to get this role? Like, this is such a meaty thing. And I wonder how often that feeling happens to you being like, wait, I'm going to be the one to take this on. It's like, what are all of you missing?

17:46Nick Offerman: Yeah, it's, I mean, when it comes my way, like, I think of three roles. One is The Last of Us that Craig Mazin called me. And that was just the one episode of season one of The Last of Us. But they sort of, they needed a guy who could use a shovel. and I wrote a joke about it at the time. There are only three of us in Hollywood. Harrison Ford passed and Jane Lynch was not available. Who could like convincingly use a shovel and look like they've done it before, yeah. Yeah, so I mean, and there are elements of that. Like Mike Makowski said that he only thought of me the whole time he was writing Chester Arthur, which could be a pretty left-handed compliment when you look at what he's writing about and like what I'm being asked to portray.

18:43He knew you could do the facial hair and like you just go from there.

18:46Nick Offerman: I did. I've got enough narcissist in me that I can turn that into a compliment where I'm like, I believe that's praise you're slathering on me. But for that and for Margot, I mean, the writing is so good I just, when something like that comes my way I just think, man, why isn't, why aren't the top movie stars like wrestling over this part? And for whatever reason, you know they didn't want him to be that appealing, you know what I mean? Wherever I fall in the spectrum I keep my mouth shut and I'm like great, however However, however I ended up here, I'm going to mind my manners and do my job as well as I can.

19:34I think minding your manners and doing your job is a big heart of why you get invited to sets, right? You know, you have that reputation. People are going to invite you back.

19:42Nick Offerman: Perhaps that is my that's my secret recipe. Yeah. Well, you're talking about the facial hair and as part of acting for Death by Lightning. And the first time we meet Jinx or I guess see him on screen, there's this insane eye makeup with like the black eyeliner and studs glued to your face. It's so, you know, high level of wrestling. What does wearing something like that do for you as finding a character, finding your performance, anything like that? I mean, for me, I've seldom I do a lot of I've worked a lot with like prosthetics and both on stage and on camera. but it's rare that I've gotten to play someone that's flamboyant.

20:21Nick Offerman: And so getting to play Jinx the wrestler, like in the ring, in flashbacks from 30 years ago, it was so much fun for our Emmy-nominated makeup department and hair department. I mean, there were like eight people creating that guy, that look. Erin, our head of makeup, did that eye makeup freehand. Now, she's been Elle Fanning's personal makeup person since she was like 11 years old. So she comes from the world of fashion. And there was a real element of like, you know, the flourish of the runway or something where I was just like, I've never felt more gorgeous. That's great. The wig that Jamie Lee made.

21:09Nick Offerman: They put extensions in my beard. They even covered my tattoos and made versions of them that were 30 years fresher. Wow. They covered these and then went over them with new, crisp, clean versions. That's so cool. Makeup artists see everything. That blew my mind. And so the whole thing, and of course, Marin's costume as well, just create like turning me into a circus like superhero was so much fun. And I don't know yet what all season two holds. We're starting in a few months, but I really hope that there's more of that. Yeah. Well, where does that fall in production with, you know, you're doing the flashback version and then you're in the ring.

22:03as the present-day Jinx wrestling Nicole Kidman, who has all the flash still intact, and Jinx doesn't exactly. Did you do one of them first, and how did that work?

22:13Nick Offerman: Ideally, it's nice to do it at the beginning or the end so that you can do something drastic. Like if you finish all the season, then you can shave your head, or if you do it first, you can have a huge beard, and then you can shave it off or whatever. it didn't work out for whatever reason and so we had to do it kind of right in the middle and so I think we did the wrestling stuff with Nicole first I trained for a few weeks with some real wrestlers Chavo Guerrero who's become kind of the Hollywood wrestling guru and John Epstein our stunt guy I had wonderful weeks of training in the ring and I'm an old fight choreographer from the stage from Chicago.

23:00Nick Offerman: So I know you don't go in saying, guys, I'm going to jump off of a building because then they're like, oh, he's a liability. We have to be very careful with him. You go in and say, let me learn, teach me your fundamentals. I want to learn how do I do this safely. And then I let them know, I'm like, oh, by the way, I can do a flip or I can do this. Can you do a flip? I can, but I mean, I can no longer do the tumbling that I did when I was young and spry. But I can do like handsprings. There's no longer any reason for me to do it. Like my joints, I can do it and then I'll be like, I shouldn't have done that.

23:43And then production shuts down for a week while you recover and it's not worth it. Yeah.

23:48Nick Offerman: But I know this and so I'm able to play it and build up with them. So I wait till about in the second week. I say, well, can I try? What if I get up? Can I just see what it feels like standing on the top rope? And they understand. I've shown them that they can trust me and that I'm not stupid. Or that I'm just stupid enough. And so then together we trust each other. And pro wrestlers are so amazing at helping each other look good. So usually if it looks like you're beating the crap out of somebody in wrestling, the victim is usually doing all the work where it's like it all depends on how well you sell things because it really does involve real athleticism and you really are like hitting the floor or hitting the ropes.

24:37Nick Offerman: so it just for me i'm like a kid in a candy store like when i get to learn a skill set like that it's that much fun where i get to fly off the top rope yeah does being in the ring with nicole kidman change the stakes at all when you you know realize who you're saying so i mean you yeah you definitely don't like you definitely are going to be a little more careful where you put your elbows when you've got like an inner an international treasure and like supermodel. Yeah. So we talked about Budapest earlier and now, you know, heading into Margo season two, going back to L.A., I assume, you know, as we start to wrap things up, just that ability to make a show in L.A., to have those crews there, to not just be in the, you know, everyone traveling across the ocean.

25:23What does that give to you guys? And what does getting go back to the set in L.A. kind of do for you? And just, you know, the feeling of making it work.

25:30Nick Offerman: You know, it's so funny about America and about capitalism that we're dumb enough that we go to all the trouble of making Hollywood. And so we've built this nucleus of the craft. That's where we have all the stuff, the stages and the cameras and the people and the infrastructure. But then, you know, somebody in Michigan is like, well, you can save$30. dollars and we're like we're moving to michigan and everybody in la is like we just built this whole thing and so you know i'm especially aware of all my friends in the community that that work crew or or uh filmmaking adjacent jobs people with like food trucks or you know artisanal uh bespoke like costumers or all these people who like who thrive are like barnacles on the body of the film industry that are like where's it like now what i can't pay my mortgage we have to move um you know it really was a hardship and so getting to bring the show home to la just feels incredible because you've got two, 300 people creating a family over several months of making this show that is so full of laughter and warmth and pathos.

27:01Nick Offerman: It just feels really good. Like we all love coming to work. And for me, you know, it's fun to go on location for months. It's more fun when you're young. I'm 56 and I love it. I love shooting on location but if you're going to be in a show for five months it's a lot nicer to go home and sleep in your bed at night and not have to be figuring out how to fly three airplanes to get to your wife in South Carolina because she's just waiting at home at the end of the day. Yeah, and knowing where everything is in the kitchen as opposed to having to start fresh. It's something to be said for it. spend all this money on these fancy pillowcases.

27:45Nick Offerman: I like to use them. You can travel with them. You can just put them in your carry-on next time. I'm a light traveler. They work better at home, probably. It's a different feeling.

27:58That does it for today's special bonus episode. We'll be back on Tuesday with a regular episode continuing our fall movie preview. This episode was edited by Brett Fox and produced by Brett Fox and me. Our theme music is by Dave Gonzalez. as subscribe to the Prestige Junkie newsletter at theankler.com. Watch this podcast on YouTube. You can also subscribe on Apple or Spotify or anywhere else you get your podcasts. We'll see you Tuesday.