Inside a DeFi Hedge Fund: Risk Management in a 24/7 Market ft. Evgeny Gokhberg

28:56So we try to look at fundamentals, which frankly is not very hard given that everything is on chain. Like you look at something like Aave, it's, you know, fundamental KPIs are doing this and the price is doing that. So if you see a business like that and you believe that trajectory is sustainable and you know the founder and you believe the founder is high quality, then, you know, you have these alligator jaws and at some point, you know, they have to close. and as long as you don't use any leverage, then you don't get stopped out on the way. And then there are more speculative things, right? So you look for esoteric small things where you put them in your portfolio with the expectation that they'll be worth exactly zero because these are venture-style bets.

29:39But if you're right, it's 50 or 100x and then you try to manage this in parallel. And we have had our fair share of disappointments as well as quite a big share of wins as well. So you're kind of running a barbell of... like concentrated risk where you've got something measurable that's understandable that has some network effects and is not correctly priced according to your view, taking into account the macro and the cycle and everything else. And then you've got the other side, which is more power law driven, which is like, we'll have a basket of this stuff because we like the opportunity set.

30:14We don't know which ones are going to work and let's just let it work out, play out. That's exactly right. and do you then trade around a lot or you tend to set it forget it or as a combination of the two so you know our approach has evolved quite a bit uh over the last few years we spent a lot of time trying to optimize you know let's say there is a category and there are two players in the category holding one you're seeing the other is starting to help your form so you try to be smart about it and you know in some market environments that works very well and then in a bad market that works very badly.

30:48So we have shifted to a completely different approach where as long as everything is holding structurally, i.e. on the technical level, on a fundamental level, and we have a good line of communication with the team to make sure that there's no hidden skeletons in the closet, then we'll just keep holding it. And if there is something else that's outrunning it, so be it because we came to a conclusion that in this market which is extremely unforgiving is better to be very very patient and not trade around these things because you're trading in a very p2p environment and it's just not it's not a sustainable way of delivering pnl it's really not easy to run kind of altcoin risk.

31:39It's just a very difficult thing. But when it works, it really works. And you have to have a lot of patience because it tends to work in very concentrated periods, generally late stage cycle. Yeah, you can be lucky with some things in the middle. We've had the hyperliquids. We've had the SUI did pretty well for a while. We had a bunch of those but really you need the the last part of the cycle to kick in exactly and you know when i was back in my tradfire days i remember looking at the data point if you know if you were long smp from let's say 1980 to whatever it was like 2015 at the time and if you would have missed you know top 10 days in the market what's the impact on european now and that was like very very substantial so just 10 days out of 30 years and in kripa i don't think anyone can capture that and i remember very well the days in 2020 and 2021 where you know if you're not in the market on like specific three days you miss out on half the pnl um so i think it's very important and people i think the main reason why people get stressed out in the space is the sizing issue right i think it's very important to walk into this with your eyes wide open and be very clear about your expected you know var and level of risk is because if someone comes to you and says this is a trade where you can lose 80 % of your money or 10x it okay yeah that's great you can just size it accordingly but if people think that oh my god you know I'm gonna lever up and like gamble my way into into freedom but that obviously doesn't work and do you tend to think of your portfolio in terms of the full cycle or do you move around more than that?

33:22Or is your mental framework is, we need to capture the full cycle gains of this? So we think we want to optimize for the least number of actions. So when we're putting on a name, we want to hold it till the end of the cycle. Yeah. And then we may change your view and take it off. Exactly. And then we will stop holding it if something breaks, whatever it might be. but our preference is not to overtrade because again like when i think back to my you know almost 10 years of being in the in the crypto investing game time in the market beats timing the market i mean i've said i keep trying to explain this to people endlessly but they're like why didn't you get out here and do this i said that that's not what you do the actual way to compound gains is do nothing you know at a simple you know for a retail investor i'm like hold a basket of bitcoin and ethan solana do nothing they think they need to you know every big draw down oh my god it's gone down 30 40 i'm like it's just noise what you're trying to do is where you bought it and where you sell it at the end of the the cycle and i think that's where a structure of philosophy comes into play because we think we truly think of these things as liquid venture yeah right so if you're making a venture investment you you at least should be making it with a view that you will never see your money again unless things work out yeah on the liquid side you have the temptation uh and the pressure of choice because every day you're not selling something is equivalent to you buying and under re-underwriting that every day and it's the same thing we've seen with stocks obviously uh but here it's much more extreme due to insane leverage and volatility and just the kind of the ethos of the space.

35:14But all the smartest people I've met in this industry, they've delivered P &L without getting anxiety attacks by being very calm and very patient. Yeah, I just think FOMO is one of the biggest destroyers of returns. I see it time and time and time again. And just not doing anything is generally the better way of doing things. so what the fuck is going on in the market we're recording this on february the 4th it's a it's a shit show i mean you and i caught up in dubai talking our theories through some of this which i still think is probably right but yeah it's still i mean i still think it's liquidity related but who the hell is selling and why i uh well i think if if we knew then you know the world would be a different place, but, you know, it's really hard, right?

36:11Looking back, it's easy to say, you know, that, you know, October 10th and, you know, CZ or, you know, whatever broke the market and we're paying the price. Okay, fine. Then, you know, what's happening over the last few weeks? Well, maybe it's, you know, like you mentioned in one of your, you know, posts recently that, you know, US liquidity is going down, having deviated from the global liquidity. So maybe it's that maybe it's a shutdown risk maybe it's people getting worried about quantum which i don't think is really the case and like i've spoken to some threat five people who are holding ibid and they're like oh what do you mean quantum risk like i'm sure you guys yeah exactly um it's honestly i don't understand and so the way how we're thinking about it at this point because i feel the market is beyond understanding right now.

37:06You can have conspiracy theories that some exchange went bust on 1010 and now they're somehow dumping the inventory, but who knows? And you just don't know. So we're taking a very different approach where we're just zooming out completely. We're looking at multi-year, multi-cycle kind of charts on BTC, Heath and Sol in absolute terms and relative terms. And then BTC versus NASDAQ, BTC versus gold. By the way, if you look at BTC versus gold, it's at the bottom of a multi-year channel. So we're looking at those things and everything is testing its critical levels. So over the last year, I probably said 10 times that this is the bottom.

37:51So I will not be saying that ever again. But I've been there too. It's not unreasonable to assume we're closer to the bottom than to a bottomless pit. And so therefore, as long as we keep holding these levels, then, you know, there is hope that we, you know, we can have something positive happen this year. And if we just break through these levels, then it's going to be, well, very, very bleak. But what's giving me hope is the market is behaving very differently from, let's say, a year ago. So a year ago, Bitcoin is down 1%, Sol is down 3%, and your average altcoin is down 15%. And then it's very scary to be holding alt because you're just getting destroyed every single day.

38:40It's like negative convexity. You pay to wait, which is horrible. But now, well, firstly, there are some names which are actually doing very well, and they're up, even though Bitcoin and everything else is down. But obviously, there's like two of them. So, you know, you can't do much with that. But lots of alts are actually not breaking down on a relative basis versus BTC. That's right. It looks like I use others on TradingView versus Bitcoin or Tote. And there seems to be some stability or outperformance coming below the surface. It's kind of like how I think about this as well is it took a while for the Russell 2000 to start performing.

39:23performing and it's the same thing it's small caps versus the majors it's the same process driven mainly by the same business cycle as far as i can tell and it feels like the signs of something reversing there yeah and and kind of that's the hope we have but realistically like every week we're approaching we're literally at critical levels right i mean solana you know broke down 100 and is now like at 92 as we speak which is beyond uh beyond my understanding So, yeah, I'm curious how you think about it at these levels, because, you know, do we do a stop loss at some point? Do we just keep holding?

40:00That's, I guess, the tricky question. But so far, when you look at, you know, there was a great print on ISM and, you know, we need good ISM to actually have, you know, what we need to have. I'm not a macro expert, but I don't think that we need to, you know, panic sell on the back of who's going to be the new Fed chair. If anything, it's probably the opposite. it so if everything is this cheap and this distressed why would you sell and you know this is i think where interestingly you know asset allocation comes in because if you're already fully invested you're like maybe i need to just get out before it goes even further down but then if you're not invested in the space this is when you start allocating because blood is not just on the streets it's up to your kneecaps quite literally so yeah i mean you know as you know i use my macro framework liquidity framework all of that and all of that looks great yes we need some more liquidity in the us the shutdown's just ended there's still a bit of part of it there's still a little bit left but really they've announced the funding it all looks fine we've got besant telling us he wants to hypercharge of the economy.

41:14Why the ISM is important is because that's economic activity. And that means people have more money and they invest in riskier things. And it's all there. The levels are key kind of levels. The technicals for me, I use a lot of DMARC indicators are bloody close, not on the weekly charts, but on the daily charts. But you don't necessarily need the weekly charts to stack up. We've got the potential for this Clarity Act to get through. It looks like they're really fighting to get it through because don't forget the crypto crowd were the biggest donors to the Republicans. So they owe them something.

41:46So they owe them this. So on a risk reward basis, it feels like it's a good trade. Yeah, I'm fully invested. And, you know, for me, how I play it, because I don't think this is the end of the cycle because it's not the end of the macro cycle. So that would be weird. So I just don't do anything. And if I get more cash in and I can spare the cash, I just keep adding because over time, if you think that tomorrow is going to be more digital than today, blockchains will have more value over time. And you don't have to go wildly far out the risk curve to capture any of that. And so therefore, it just doesn't worry me.

42:26But it worries everybody else so much about the ups and downs because I understand people's hopes and dreams are in this whole trade. It's a lot more than just an investment. Well, it's a lifestyle. And it's like Ethan Solana are lower than where they were five years ago. So there are people who bet their careers and lives on this, ourselves included. And it's not fun. But what really amazes me is the disconnect that we have between the fundamentals and the price. so we with with my partner uh whom we're running this fund with we uh we run a very simple exercise we looked at last year we picked what we believe to be quality defa platforms and you know like okay what's the average growth in revenue over 2025 and it was on average for that basket about 30 percent and what is the price performance for that basket is roughly minus 50 percent so that feels a bit weird and then you know every day you have uh more stable cause launching more people more banks and traditional institutions using on-chain products more integrations more more more um and yet that doesn't seem to matter so it's like fundamentals are completely disconnected from the price which then brings me back to you know maybe it was as simple as you know october 10th just structurally breaking something in the market and maybe it's taking longer than we hope to recover from that it's just very hard to explain it otherwise i had a weird thing happen to me i was writing global macro investor over the weekend and a client of mine who's a pretty well-known uh hedge fund manager sent me an email said you know should should I buy the bottom in software stock, in SaaS companies?

44:15And I'm like, well, you know, Claude Code, Claude, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. The answer that the narrative, right, the market narrative, I said, I'm not sure. Let me go now. Let me go and have a think about it. And if we think the narrative in Bitcoin is 1010 broke things, blah, blah, blah. Then I overlaid the charts and they're literally identical. And I'm like, okay, this is telling me both narratives are wrong. And there's another dominant factor causing this. So, you know, I spent a bit of time with AI chatting through this and thinking through it. And the answer was U.S.

44:57liquidity. And because what had happened, and this is my understanding of this, But as US liquidity, because of the complications, everybody's heard me talking about all of that because of the TGA rebuild and no reverse repo, and then the shutdown, US liquidity shrunk. These two, SaaS or software and crypto, are the furthest out. They're the longest duration assets of all. So what happens is they get hit because the marginal liquidity is not available. There's still liquidity in the system, which is why NASDAQ's going up, blah, blah, blah. or Nasdaq stopped going up, but there's still enough momentum in the market.

45:37And then the one key variable that changed a lot was gold. So gold starts going up. It's a big asset, and it sucks in attention and capital. So the marginal assets get hit. And so nothing else makes sense if SaaS stocks and Bitcoin are identical charts. So therefore, it's not an esoteric thing, a single factor individually to those things. It has to be something bigger. So that's what I got to with that is maybe all of our narratives are wrong. It's explained by there's simply not enough money in the space right now to maintain that. It's the same if you think through the altcoin space. There's not enough money for the million altcoins for them all to run.

46:26So what you end up with is some runners and a whole bunch of stuff that doesn't ever perform. And so that's because there's not enough liquidity. If you put a trillion dollars of liquidity into Bitcoin, into crypto tomorrow, everything goes up because then there's enough liquidity. It's as simple as that, right? And what needs to happen for that U.S. liquidity to come back and become the marginal buyer? So firstly, it was this shutdown because the TGA has been – they wanted it at$850 billion, which is high anyway. It's at$900 and something billion. So there's about$100 billion too much in it already versus what they wanted.

47:01But they've had to hold it because of the shutdown that's going on that's just ended. So that should start withdrawing. So that's Fed net liquidity going up. We know the balance sheet is also growing. So then, OK, now we've got a tailwind. The next step is the issuance of bonds and bills and who absorbs them. So they've just changed the ESLR, which is the risk weighting on treasuries, reduced it, which means the banks can buy more treasuries. Today, they announced the funding schedule. It looks like because of how it's structured, i.e. they're not going far out the yield curve, they're keeping to bills.

47:41There's about$150 billion of extra liquidity coming from that. The difference is now, because they've changed the regulatory requirements, the banks can do more with those bonds. So they will recycle that capital and create money because the banking system can print money in its own right. So it has a multiplier effect. So that starts really kicking in in sort of March, April, May. But we've got the TGA beforehand. Then we've got the fiscal stimulus. We've probably got some rate cards. So it feels like it's all there, but it just needs to happen. Meanwhile, the Chinese are extending their balance sheet.

48:20They've been the driver of global liquidity. So that's good. So the conditions are in place. Are we going to get a nuclear bomb of liquidity? I don't know. But I know that the banking system will re-leverage it. The big thing is if Steve Mirren gets through what he wants to do, which is reduce all risk weighting on government bonds for banks. So that means they can create$5 trillion of leverage. And that's a big deal because, A, it goes through to Main Street because they lend money. That gets the ISM screaming high, the business cycle, recycles capital through the system, finances the CapEx spends that are required for all of this data center build-outs and all of that.

49:09But it also creates money, M2, all of that. So I think that's what they're going to try and do. And Scott Besson knows he has to have liquidity if he wants good markets. And the market's showing you right now that it doesn't have enough liquidity. NASDAQ's been sideways for two months now, three months. Everything feels a bit heavy. The gold trade is gone now for the time being. And it will never suck in as much capital again. Even if gold takes to new highs, it won't get that amount of attention again where it sucks in everybody's attention. I mean, you and I know every single crypto trader became a precious metals trader.

49:45That's exactly right. And then also there is this anxiety on AI capex, AI spend, which is, yeah, further pushing. On one hand, it's further pushing down kind of the risk appetite. On the other hand, it means that someone will look and say, well, I invest a lot in AI. I should probably go back to crypto a little bit. And maybe that helps as well. Yeah, I think so. And I think there is a, you know, we tended to see when gold peaks, gold generally is in line with financial conditions, which leads everything. So gold tends to peak and then Bitcoin really tends to perform. Now, it's not a prerequisite, but it's kind of of that.

50:24You know, what you'd like to see is the ISM going up, liquidity increasing, gold sort of topping out. And that gives you generally what the structure is. Then you want to see what you mentioned before, altcoins starting to stabilize versus the majors. You want to see Bitcoin dominance coming down, all of those signals. So it feels like they're very close to a lot of this right now. Yeah. And the only thing that's causing anxiety on my side, it feels we've been very close for a while. And then yet every day we're just getting kind of breaks. Yeah. I mean, it's surprising to get every day the market's down 6%.

51:02I mean, it's like, and I've not really figured out who the sellers are of all of this. It's fine to have no marginal liquidity, but who's the seller and why? I don't understand. I mean, there's obviously a lot of players in the market. I hear it's a lot of miners, miners who are switching to data centers. So they're switching use case, and therefore they just liquidate their Bitcoin. because there seems to be a lot of selling coming from the Middle East and Asia, China. That's what I hear, but who knows, right? Everyone's got their own theories right now. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then, I don't know, over the last 24 hours, we have this kind of coordinated push where people are hoping to cause a bank run on Binance, which, well, first, I don't think they'll succeed.

51:52But secondly, it's not like they're helping anyone. but you know maybe that is partially it as well uh it's just very unclear and as per usual we will only know in retrospect but then you know we have to everyone has to make decisions today uh you know waiting for the explanation later and what do you think for people watching this you think people should just be closer into the risk curve right now so stay in the majors uh and wait for a better signal if you're in the market i mean how should people think about it or Or should they be broadening out a bit because this is the opportunity set? It's very hard, right?

52:30Because everyone has their own, you know, as a classically trained kind of, you know, banker, it all starts with risk tolerance. That's right. And allocation. So, like. People don't understand risk tolerance until they have a 40%, 50 % drawdown. Well, until they can't sleep, basically. Yeah, exactly. like that. So, okay, if my personal approach is, okay, like, how much am I willing to lose, right? So if let's say there is an asset that I think in the worst case scenario can go down 80%, and I'm only willing to lose$80, then I should only invest$100 and no more, right? And if someone has invested that already, and obviously most people unfortunately have in our space, then it's very hard.

53:13And then the question is, you know, how do you go after or, you know, around that how do you manage that and again just thinking logically i remember in 2017 um i said no to like most icos because i thought that eth is like the nasdaq and all of those things are like small caps trying to outperform it and i missed out on a lot of winners but on average, it's been okay. And my thinking hasn't really changed where I feel we have the benchmark, which could be a basket of an EBDC soul, for example. And you can just hold it and go to sleep and know that most likely it's going to be okay in the end with a long enough time horizon.

53:58Or you can try to be more active, but then you need to realize you need to manage it more actively and you take idiosyncratic risk, right? So you may say that instead of holding you know, even Sol, you want to hold Sui, for example, for a variety of reasons. And in a specific market environment, it will do phenomenally well versus the other ones. But then you will wake up one day and, you know, it's going to be down more than the majors because it's higher beta. And then you need to be able to ask yourself, you know, why am I still holding this? That's right. Keep holding this further. And then if you can't answer why am I still holding it, you will most likely sell at the worst possible time.

54:38Well, because people also confuse why am I holding it with price action? Exactly. And, you know, you have to ask yourself, has something changed in my assessment of this? Is it acting in line with where it should be on the risk curve? You know, you look at it, if Bitcoin's down 30%, it's going to be down 45%. Solana's going to be down 55%. Sui will be down 75%, right? That's the normal risk curve. Is it doing anything different to that is the question you have to ask yourself as well. Or if not, it's just it's beta. Exactly. And then, you know, people would need to spend time thinking about it.

55:17Then they need to adjust for the fact that they'll be wrong, let's say, 50 % out of time, which means you can run a portfolio and then an end, which usually should lead to the conclusion that, you know, just take it easy unless you're highly specialized or, you know, well-trained. but that's not how people operate in in crypto naturally uh so i think it all starts with asking yourself you know what are you like if whatever you're holding goes down by x are you willing to you know to bear that and then even more importantly you know on the way up is it likely to make new highs or is it going to go down 90 and then double from there right because that's another complexity And I feel unless we get like a COVID bazooka, then it's reasonable to assume something good to happen to the majors and the quality assets.

56:09But, you know, if something hasn't made a new high since 2017, you know, it's like the death, kind of the death spiral. It will probably make lower lows and lower. But you know what they're all going to do? They're all going to look at the chart of Zcash and say it's possible. That's what happens, right? You screw your whole thinking because you're like, look at Zcash. This could do it. And that's the main challenge with the space because we've seen so many people get wildly well off on the back of taking very large, very concentrated bets. Obviously, we see the survivorship bias. right there is this uh you know twitter thing uh coin fashions where people like anonymously write their confessions oh yeah uh and you read that it's like it's pretty pretty bleak um what people are actually experiencing so there is this temptation you know it's like there is um you know there's this joke that the first the worst uh attack on education came from the zuckerberg story because now everyone thinks if i'm a dropout i'll be a billionaire great that's not really how it works and it's also the survivor bias is let's say you get a room full of people who've had a good career they've got a million bucks in investment portfolio one guy happened to buy ethereum at the ice at the ico he's now a multi-billionaire there's 10 of them who did other ICOs and they all went to zero.

57:46You don't see those stories. You just see the one person who got it right. Exactly. And that's why, you know, like any, you know, coach or, you know, psychologist will tell you it's important to look within and understand what you're willing to live with, because ultimately, you know, we'll need to acknowledge that, you know, we might all be wrong and maybe we've just been delusional for 10 years. None of this makes any sense. And like, you need to be able to survive in that scenario it's very nice to have a story where you go you know all in you know you're back to the wall and it's a dramatic story of how you know you can you make it but uh life is not as dramatic and uh you know if um i don't remember who's one of the twitter personas said that that you know if you don't manage your risk then the market will manage with for you exactly right so final question for you do you think is this the i know it's a weird question when asset you know bitcoin's down 40 or whatever but is this a bear market or is this a mid-cycle kind of weird thing what's your mental framework so that's a that's a great question so we try to think in cycle terms and then we're looking for a signal that the cycle is broken yeah tell us we're in a different regime and last well last 12 months have 13 months now have been absolutely brutal and you know an average altcoin is down 80 percent and the majors are down a lot.

59:25But if you actually zoom out and you look at the relevant macro indicators and you look at the majors, it doesn't look broken. It looks like we went through a very sharp correction within the bull market. This correction has then been extended in both duration and magnitude. But at this point, it doesn't feel right to say that the whole thing is broken and you need to get out because it's going to be two years of pain um that may change tomorrow if we go down you know more and more and more and more but as of right now it just doesn't feel like stuff has broken yeah i agree if you just look at the you know like the monthly chart of ethereum or something like that it just looks like it's a sideways consolidation since since 2021 yeah and it's like there's nothing scary on that chart yeah when you zoom in everything looks super scary but when you zoom out a lot it's like it doesn't look that bad at all yeah and then you have some other things which are either holding very well or are making, you know, higher highs, even in this environment.

1:00:42And then I think we need to take a step back. You know, I had an interesting call from one of my LPs around Christmas. And, you know, he's kind of invested on the long side. And he's kind of thinking whether he should, you know, increase. And one of his questions was, you know, do you, you know, again, do you think the industry is going to die? and I'm like why are you even asking that and he's like well you know when prices are down 80 % that's usually a signal that something is you know collapsing and I was like well actually you know stable coins banks again like blah blah blah blah and he's like oh wow because that person is not in the space at all uh and he's like oh I just looked at the market I assumed everything is dead So the question we have to ask ourselves, is ETH worth zero?

1:01:31Is ARMF worth zero? And if it's not, then we don't know what it is because we can't do a DCF. Not really. But we can have a mental model, right? Can you, if you really believe, well, the data is telling us that, you know, a trillion dollars of tokenized assets could exist on Ethereum in the near future. Could the security value of the network be lower than that? Doesn't really make much sense. You can argue both ways, definitely. But it's not unreasonable to assume that this is an opportunity rather than a sign to abandon all ships. Yeah, that's how I see it as well. All right, my friend. Fascinating conversation.

1:02:18Thank you. Hopefully people have got a lot out of this. And let's see where we go from here. I mean, I remain bullish. It was a pretty shitty year last year, but it is what it is. And, you know, I think it's, as you and I spent a lot of time talking about, you've got to have the right mindset and understand what risks you're taking and what your actual risk tolerance is. I mean, those of us, the longer we've been in this game, the more risk tolerance you have. You have the ability to take absurd risks. I mean, I've had two 87 % drawdowns in Bitcoin alone. And I'm having a decent-sized drawdown in Sui right now.

1:02:55Well, drawdown from peak, I'm still up on the trade. But yeah, I mean, this is how it goes. And it's not an easy game, which is why there are big returns when it works, because it's not bloody easy. That's exactly right. And yeah, let's see where we are tomorrow. All right, my friend. Good to see you. Thank you all. So let's see how the market develops. I think the opportunity set remains as is, and that things will continue back on the normal path. And a lot of this noise in markets will be just that noise. Anyway, I'll see you next time. Good luck out there.

1:03:44and crypto financial products like yield and lending through one full service platform. If you're looking to gain access to additional liquidity, Abra has one of the most competitive loan products in the market. You can borrow against Bitcoin, ETH and Solana at up to 50 % loan to value. Rates are in the 4 % to 6 % APY and are open term. You can continuously draw down against your collateral as the price appreciates. Abra has other strategies to add yield and their team is happy to help align your portfolio to your risk profile. Reach out today and get a complimentary consult in your portfolio.

1:04:14It's worth seeing if they can help you manage your allocation, reach investment goals, manage risk, and add additional yield. Go to realvision.com forward slash Abra and tell them I sent you. You obviously enjoyed the episode because you're here with me at the end. But listen, don't forget to go to realvision.com forward slash join and grab a free membership. It's an incredible community packed with alpha, great investment ideas, and the research that you need to help you unfuck your future. So get started now. Go to realvision.com forward slash join. Ever wanted to explore the world of online trading, but haven't dared try?

1:04:52The futures market is more active now than ever, and Plus 500 Futures is the perfect place to start. Plus 500 gives you access to a wide range of instruments, S &P 500, Nasdaq, Bitcoin, gas, and much more. Explore equity indices, energy, metals, forex, crypto, and beyond. With a simple and intuitive platform, you can trade from anywhere, right from your phone. Deposit with a minimum of$100 and experience the fast, accessible futures trading you've been waiting for. See a trading opportunity? You'll be able to trade in just two clicks once your account is open. Not sure if you're ready? Not a problem.

1:05:30Plus500 gives you an unlimited risk-free demo account with charts and analytic tools for you to practice on. With over 20 years of experience, Plus500 is your gateway to the markets. Visit us at plus500.com to learn more. Trading in futures involves the risk of loss and is not suitable for everyone. Not all applicants will qualify. Plus500, it's trading with a plus.