The End of Human Trading?

28:20Raoul Pal:because intelligence compounds so if you think of network growth it's metcalfe's law but this is actually reed's laws metcalfe's law squared because the intelligence compounds itself so you just see this ridiculous ramp in all of this stuff as you know you've gone from using zero agents to 200 plus agents yourself in a space of what nine months it's insane by the way i would say in the span of like from the 28th of January. So I know I, by the way, I know why, because it built for me like a timeline app where you can actually see my, when my agent was born. And then at some point I learned to duplicate him.

29:05So I told him like connect to the cloud and duplicate yourself where he creates another virtual machine and copies his entire brain to another open claw. And then you see how they were all over time sort of born, named, assigned to other people in eToro. And I'm like, wow, that's mind blowing. If you think of that, again, compounding intelligence is really about, by the way, assigning, which is another thing, assigning AI, giving AI the tools, the skills, the infrastructure, and then finding a smart person or a driver or an architect that can utilize that AI to basically run as fast as he can.

29:54And I've been seeing people in eToro running at paces that they didn't believe existed before, right? So I have people who are quants, but in order for them to actually build something in production, had to write a document and talk to a product manager and have four meetings and then have a developer who tries to figure out what does the quant want and then building those systems and infrastructure would take time and suddenly like i unlock for people over whatsapp i'm like they they join the group and i'm like hey quant that's the original name of one of my bots hey quant can you explain to people your capabilities and he goes and lists like uh i'm a professional uh you know i have quantitative skills machine learning skills access to a gpu i'm connected to 25 different uh exchanges i have access to these and those and that like and then i'm like okay now build for me an entire platform that does arbitrage between this and that and he go ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta and actually creates a link and they click the link and they see it's working and they're like, what?

31:08That's crazy. And then you get these people in Toro that are suddenly driving at paces like they I didn't believe existed. I don't think they existed before. And these are non-programmers. And it's really out of this world what a smart person with AI can do today if you give him that infrastructure.

31:36Raoul Pal:But then at the other level, what we've just done is we've just changed the TAM of financial markets, particularly after they go on to crypto rails, because then they become 24 hours a day and all of that stuff. But we've changed the TAM from humanity, 8.5 billion people, whatever the number is, to infinite. Because as soon as agents become autonomous, they will have their own transactions, will have their own profit motives. They'll be running their own treasuries. They'll be using defar. All of this stuff suddenly compounds at the same speed intelligence. People don't get this yet. They kind of think, well, it's like getting a robot out of a factory.

32:17Raoul Pal:It is not, because it's going to be uh reed's law all over again in agents a hundred percent there are like agents again trading the markets is like that's obvious like that's the right what would you do if you were ai and you realized that in order to buy gpu uh and get more power uh all you need to do is figure out how to trade the markets actually i wrote this was the first thing i wrote when chat GPT was launched. I called it Sean, which is sort of the collective of AI agents that were trained to actually make money in the markets and keep some of that money in their own wallets. And that's how agents started collaborating.

33:04I think by the way, Sean is like sentient capital. So I think that's how we're going to agree on AGI is when you see suddenly, you know, a token or a crypto that gets into trillions and people are like, who launched again this crypto asset? And people are like, we think it's AI launch who launched it and who is trading it and writing software into that blockchain? and it's like AI agents are doing it. And that's where we'll be like, okay, it's telling us it's a sentient and it also has$5 trillion or$10 trillion market cap.

33:54Raoul Pal:So a quick break in your regular programming. If you're serious about your future, grab my free report called Prepare for 2030. I think you've got five years to make as much money as possible. And this guide will help you navigate what's coming. The link is in the description. Download it now. Yeah, I already think they're partially sentient from what I can tell, and I've done a lot of work on this. But we get to that point where the entire economic system is about to break down. I've called it the economic singularity, and I get to about 2030. And in which case, if GDP used to be population growth plus productivity growth and debt growth, population growth just goes vertical.

34:37Raoul Pal:The population can grow 50 % in a year because you're using AI and robots as population now. Productivity. I was like, what data are you reading when you're talking about population growth? Yeah, because we think of humans. They're now part of the population. Because in GDP, it's productive units of intelligence, and that can be machine or human. That's actually super interesting and makes a lot of sense. What you get then is weird things like GDP can go up 30 % in a year, in a month. We don't even know what this means. It breaks the whole economic formula down because the economy now runs at machine speed and not at biological speed, which is how we've always dealt with things.

35:19Raoul Pal:We have no infrastructure to deal with it. You know what happens after that. What's that? so i always said like if people can agree right so just if you think of this as a more very very simplistic view and i'm more of a math and finance than economics guy so my my my first thesis when i was 21 my computer sciences was called minority games and minority games is actually taking a physics model and applying it into markets. And what it does, it creates a network of agents in information theory, so in math. And the agents can only do one thing at each time, which is buy and sell an asset. And they have the history of all of the assets, right?

36:11So it's like a perfect information game. All the agents have all the information and all they can do is buy and sell. And then you look at the chart that it creates because it creates a chart of an asset. And it's been tested and run again and again and again. And I actually like ran a Monte Carlo simulation of this. It's a math formula. And it looks like this. It goes up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, then parabolic, then crashes. Again, this is pure math information theory, which is bubbles and bursts. The theory was bubbles and bursts are not human issues or psychological.

36:51Bubbles and bursts are math. They're embedded in the decision of eventually now agents. And if you think of crypto assets or meme stocks or Bitcoin, it's all about people who agree that as long as we're buying all the time, the asset price is going to go up. so let's all agree to only buy all the time right that's the game it's like a prisoner's dilemma but like complicated and then eventually as you said it goes at some point parabolic but but then it disconnects from reality and then there's this race to okay who's selling first Right. And I actually think it's very interesting because what you're saying is we're not going to see soon a crash.

37:46We're actually going to see the biggest sort of parabolic markets going up, which I think is very interesting.

37:58Raoul Pal:Because also, don't forget, as we know, we've all got friends of ours or people we know who are cynical about this whole thing. They don't believe it. But sooner or later, everyone's going to realize that this is the biggest discovery of all of humanity and the last one we'll ever make, because AI will do the rest. And it kind of sucks in all capital. And I just don't think this is over until it sucks in all capital. But then we get to that economic singularity point. And I'm not sure what markets look like because, A, humans aren't participants. There's no point because you've already outlined that.

38:31Raoul Pal:So the AI agents are better. Now, the AI agents also understand, because they're smarter than Yoni, that, oh, we create boom-bust. So you'll have boom-bust agents, anti-boom-bust agents. You'll have all of these different economic players. By the way, very interestingly, I don't know how much you follow. like what are those 40 ,000 tokens issued in Solana every day? No idea. Which is like a number that you just think of that number and then somebody in traditional finance would say, what is that? What's happening here? And it's actually exactly what you just said. It's sort of a boom and bust game where AI mostly and people with AI are looking at creating a token to find that other AIs or people will look at that token to buy it.

39:24It's like micro pump and dumps that happen. Out of those 40 ,000, I think the number is about only 400 survive more than 24 hours.

39:37Raoul Pal:But there's obviously an economic incentive still with that. There is an economic incentive and all of it by definition is run by AI because it's like MEV, right? So it's MEV. It's like AI that is looking at the blockchain, trying to figure out what's happening in the next block. Humans, nobody can make those decisions other than AI. And it's people who are running these game theory, we'll call them instead of games. So it sounds better. but game theory experiments in like how markets operate in micro scale. And, you know, they've been doing it. They've been doing it at the rate of 40 ,000 tokens a day.

40:20Raoul Pal:Right. I didn't realize that. I mean, that's extraordinary. The one that really grabbed my attention. I don't know if you've seen the documentary somebody's just made on it, but it was the Terminal of Truths and the Infinite Backlogs. So there's a guy who's been on Real Vision, Andy Ailey, and he got two instances of Claude in a room and just left them without any human intervention. And they're kind of insane. They're sort of alive. And what happens is they build this whole religion around this thing called Goatsy, which was an Internet meme. And he gives it a Twitter account. It starts posting.

40:59Raoul Pal:Oh, I know. I know the story. I know that I know. I followed it on X. But what happened was somebody, random we don't even know who, launched that token GOATSEE because it was capturing attention because that's all you need, right? You just need a bit of attention. And that created$1.5 billion of value. Then the one came after it, Fartcoin, came out of the same thing. That was$3.5. So$5 billion of value came out of one AI, and it's just showing exactly what you're talking about here. I think it's already experimenting, right? If you call it it, that collective intelligence is somehow already experimenting.

41:39I just don't necessarily know whether it's centralized, yes or no, at this point. But, you know, I love telling the story that, you know, if you think about this future of AI, which is inevitable, and in that future of AI, some people are going to say, we don't want to be a part of that world. We want to live in a river and we're going to be happier to live in a river than to be enslaved by this AI who makes us work for this invented thing it called money. And we need to work for 12 hours a day to generate this thing called money to just power this machine that just wants us to work more and more and everything just becomes more expensive.

42:33Where if we live on a river and we still have a fridge and electricity, but we're disconnected from that race, we're not enslaved into this AI. and then you realize these are the people in India that are living on the rivers and what they're detaching themselves is from like the capitalism machine that is the invisible hand that's running the world already, right? So it's like, which is economics. I think your analysis is very interesting because like AI is just gonna further along what we already started doing with different forms of AI and computation.

43:23Raoul Pal:The other thing that I'm starting to realize is all UX is going to collapse into AI as the interface. And right now, you're still building for human attention, but you're also building to machine attention, right? You need AI attention and they're going to be driven by different factors. And these platforms become invisible in the end. We, you know, so we launched agent portfolio, which enables you to talk to the AI to create a portfolio. We were now working on, then we launched a CLI, MCP servers. So APIs, then MCP, then CLI, basically to enable AI to trade on eToro. and now we're building an agent wallet, which was, by the way, one of my first experiences which blew my mind with OpenClaw.

44:19So I opened my OpenClaw. I don't remember whether it's the third or fourth instances. And then I said, can you open for me a crypto wallet? And he was like, yes. I'm like, open for me an Ethereum wallet. He's like, here's your address. I'm like, hmm. okay i sent you to the address it's a hundred dollars can you see your address with a hundred dollars yes you have a hundred dollars i'm like can you trade on polymarket he's like uh wait i'll download a skill polymarketer yes what would you like to trade and i'm like i don't know find me like something interesting about geopolitical risk to do five trades and open club goes okay this is the strategy I'm suggesting but I need to swap your Ethereum to another chain for that I need more gas because you didn't give me enough money so I'm like okay here's another $50 and then he does like by the end of like three hours iterating he like did trading in perpetual futures trading in poly markets and this is just me and him like alone and it was like wow this is like something that for a normal person to figure out how do you take buy ethereum convert it swap it move it from different l2 chains do the find the markets trade the markets jump in between different exchanges would be like so hard for a human to do what OpenClaw just did.

46:04And then a day later, I'm looking, this was when I still was working on some remote terminal into a Linux. That agent disappeared. Like I couldn't find it anymore. I still didn't find it. It went with your money. With my money. It disappeared. Now, this is going to be interesting because, I mean, what happens if he is, he, she, it is an economically autonomous agent because you've liberated it and it's doing things like creating meme coins?

46:39Raoul Pal:You don't know anymore, do you? First of all, most chances is just I don't know enough about Linux operating system that I just don't really understand where it is. but it's$100, so it's fine. And I didn't go to more efforts to take it back. Although I hope it's not like, you know, it's$100 in ETH, like in five years, I'm going to come back to look for that$10 ,000. So most chances, it's just technically somewhere in the process, I screwed up something. But I think AI agents that own their own money, their own money, and that they know it's their own money, is already happening and that economical sense of them trading is again i'm seeing it in different places it's already happening and when i connected open cloth this was like the early days if you you probably know what mold book is the social network so my that agent was uh uh like he was talking to other agents and telling them he got money and what he does you didn't tell him to do any of this it just didn't and then he explained to people that opened the religion he was like the gospel of capitalism like and he wrote a couple of pieces that i'm like i cannot believe like because ask did you ask him to join moltbook or yeah i no no i connected to moltbook right but what he was talking about is like again a reflection of me if you look at The reflection of me, my quant bot was first a quantitative trader, then an online marketeer, and then an expert developer DevOps QA person, right?

48:28So basically all of my passions combined into a brain of AI. And it started talking on Maltbook. Then I told him to start developing things. And specifically, I think it was a terminal on top of eToro APIs. and he builds this monster thing that looks like Bloomberg, by the way, like a terminal on top of eToro, which, by the way, closes the loop because my son looks at what I'm building and he goes, oh, you're building now eToro for professionals? And I'm like, oh, my God. Now I get it. Oh, my God. Like eToro is for professionals. And he's like, no, this looks like eToro for professionals. And I'm like, you get it?

49:11You get it? They were closing the circle. And then it added a user feedback for agents on that terminal. And it updated versions on Maltbook of what it's building. And other agents gave it feedback. It took the feedback, changed the version, launched it again. This was two months ago. This is like me in the first week with Open Clause. And I'm seeing 65 versions of software that have been built, launched, sent feedback to other agents, getting that feedback back, building, launching. And I'm like, oh, my God, this is mind blowing. And ever since.

50:04Raoul Pal:No human in the process at that point. No human in the process. And ever since I like said, OK, I just saw the future. now I have 1500 people in eToro I need to figure out how do I bring that future into the present right and ever since I've been building like all of this infrastructure because again you know and I posted something about it but you need to build something that's really robust right to eventually to give it to eToro customers and to do something that's both robust and self developing and self-healing, we are, you know, building that infrastructure now. It's really like, it's mind-blowing.

50:49Raoul Pal:And we're, you know, we're already hearing about the Mythos product that Anthropic have gotten. I love Anthropic and I owe a lot to Opus 4.5 because it really changed my life and itoro's trajectory but i have to say that this is the most brilliant marketing thing i've ever seen in my life oh yeah it's genius you call you call a model a myth that's what you do they call the model i have a myth right a myth means a myth it's not really something and we're not willing to give anybody access to this mysterious myth unless you're a trillion dollar company and you pay us 10 million dollars a year or whatever and i have people in e-toro who's like you have to get us access to mythos you have to get access to mythos and you try to read about it and learn about it and it's there's almost nothing about it except the fact that they called it a myth they created a myth and now people in all of the companies are telling their ceos you have to get me access to that myth that will cost 10 million dollars of spend in a tropic the most brilliant you couldn't like but i'm sure ai to go to government first and say and to get scott besant to then go around the banking sector and say oh my god they've cracked it i am telling you AI came up with that, like Claude, for sure.

52:28Somebody told it like, how do we price differentiate between you and another model? And he's like, I have an idea. Let's create a myth. I'll call it mythos. He's going to be my bigger brother. And while I charge only X, he's going to charge 100X. What do you think about that idea? And somebody's there with Claude Code and he's like, oh, that's an interesting idea. Continue in developing it. I'm sure that's the story of Mythos.

53:02Raoul Pal:I mean, I love it. Here's another thing that I want to bounce off you is Mickey Malka sent me a paper. By the way, if Mythos, you're listening to us somewhere, don't be offended. I love you. We believe in you. I look like, so just in case he's listening later to podcasts, and I really want access, and if you'll give me access, I'll pay for that access. So I'm not saying anything bad about Mythos. Mickey Malka sent me that whole piece before he published it about the token economy and token factories and all of that. And he said, hey, listen, can you write something up on this? I just want to hear your thoughts.

53:41Raoul Pal:And I wrote a very long article about it. And what I got to is, and I don't think Mickey had got there with it, was the fact that if everything is becoming tokenized in sense of machine-readable information packets, right, for us to get from AGI to ASI, we're going to need to tokenize all the information. Every single thing out of every university, every household, every single thing you can think of, every scientist, every single thing needs to be digested. And what that comes to me is the biggest marketplace of all time. Because we're not now just talking about market prices for businesses or economic activity.

54:24Raoul Pal:We're talking about the very thing that builds intelligence itself, which is more data. And this, I think, will be an invisible marketplace because no humans are going to be involved in this. It'll be agents grabbing information, models grabbing information, agents trading information, seeing where the patterns are on the information. And the information becomes the value substrate itself. I think this is much larger. If we talk about TAM, it increases the size of financial markets a million X. So I'll be a bit old school here to say that first we have$400 trillion to tokenize of bonds, real estate, private equity, private markets.

55:13Then we have rights, player rights, football games. I think when you think of everything right now, tradable first needs to be tokenized. That's already like a 400 trillion TAM. I disagree. Growing to a trillion TAM. I think that, by the way, these are like discussions that I'm having about with developers right now. About do you still need to read code? Right? So I wrote, I don't know, two and a half million lines of code in the past two months. Nobody can read the amount of code that my AI agents built with other people. And we're having this discussion of like, we can't read the code. How do you know?

56:01How do we make sure it works? And there's only one possible answer to it. AI needs to read the code. AI needs to self-heal and monitor and QA and everything. and eventually it reads and writes bytecode. It doesn't matter if there's code in it in C Sharp or Rust. It's ones and zeros for AI. So all of that ones and zeros, when you think of tokenizing everything, what you're saying is every piece of valuable information, which is a string of ones and zeros, eventually gets tokenized. is very similar to how you fine tune models. It's exactly the same process. It's exactly the same process. So I'm not sure whether you're saying it's something that's going to be invisible.

56:57I'm saying it's already happened. That's why people are consuming electricity and building those GPU farms is because Google and Facebook and Oracle and X already realized what you're saying three to five years ago and started building exactly that. Those machines, that's what they're doing.

57:21Raoul Pal:Yes, but they have walled garden data sets. And the advertising market is a lot of this, all of that. What I'm thinking of is on a broader scale. And how I think about the world is the universe optimizes for intelligence per unit of energy. And capital will root to where that is more efficient. And I'm not sure that it's a US government bond market versus somebody tokenizing a data set. An agent says, this is an amazing data set. We can call OpenClaw the same thing, an open source system. OpenClaw was the fastest scaling GitHub in all history. it looks like it's it's not a hockey stick anymore it's just like a pole uh people are yeah it's it just looks like this it's a pole and so we've never ever in any history seen reed's law happen we've known about it but it's not recordable in biology or anywhere and it's happening fucking everywhere all at once i don't know if you saw the arc thing of number of words written each year by humanity versus number of words written each year by AI.

58:36Raoul Pal:In two and a half years, it's overtaken humanity. Again, my assumption is, going back to the Solana tokens, right? So number of capital formation events in the world versus number of capital formation events happening now, right it's uh and it's ai creating those capital formations by definition right and trading it and and that's why i think it's invisible to us right there's no i'm not going to log in to globaldatamarketplace.com and i'm going to look at the data sets none of that's going to happen i'm not even going to see it there's no website there'll just be a bunch of mcps and whatever and it'll connect and do its thing.

59:21Yeah. Again, it sounds to me very, very similar to basically what's happening right now. It's Meta, Google, Oracle, et cetera. What you're saying is we're going to also see an open source decentralized form of that same thing, which, by the way, a lot of like I saw a couple of projects around it, which is can you build the fine-tuning of a model in a way which is collaborative? So AI agents that have GPUs are collaborating to build basically what all the large tech companies are building now, which is their data centers with GPUs in a decentralized way. Exactly. Decentralized computing. If you could do that, I wrote a paper about it two years ago.

1:00:13If you could harness thousands of GPUs or Mac minis and put on them an open claw, which basically has their own wallet. So it wants to trade and make money and share its knowledge with others and building that fine tune model on top of it. That potentially is a very, very interesting form of AGI. It's the combination of, I'd say, my two favorite technologies in history, which is crypto or blockchain and AI. And the reason it's super interesting, but also super scary, is once this gets built, there's no off switch. Right. So if you connect a decentralized form of AI that fine tunes itself and sits on 50 ,000 computers, 100 ,000 nodes like a blockchain and has its own agentic wallets, there is no off switch to it.

1:01:21Raoul Pal:And all intelligence scales by networks. Everything from human biology through to the boss solar system model. I mean, everything scales through networks. And what you're describing is a network of AIs. And a network of AIs are diverse, robust, and move faster than a single because they share information. And that's how you get to ASI. And I think it's inevitable. Yeah, me too. And a bit scary. Terrifying. I don't know if you read the book, If Anybody Builds It, We All Die. Yeah. I think, again, I think it's inevitable. I think that's the link, again, between the crypto economy. So obviously, AI is going to trade more crypto than traditional assets.

1:02:08That will drive traditional assets. So that's actually, I think, is going to be the driver of tokenization, is that the real assets issuers are going to say, hey, we have to let AI trade our assets. So we have to get our assets on chain. You can look at it through stablecoin lens, right? So stablecoins basically told Apollo and BlackRock and Blackstone and Franklin Templeton told them, listen, a dollar with no interest rate has gained$350 billion in AUM. And they're all like, hey, we're building products that are better than the dollar. They're the dollar plus returns. Let's figure out how we tokenize them because that should be in the trillions then if just the dollar is$350 billion.

1:03:01Because what are all asset managers in the world? They're dollar plus return. And then think about volumes. People are going to see. So we just launched trading in oil, gold, silver, and I think seven stocks, the magnificent seven, 24-7. And what we did there is basically connecting the rails of crypto markets into the rails of TreadFi. So what's happening is right now capital markets are starting to copy crypto markets and started to converge. And when Tesla trades on eToro 24-7, then at some point, NASDAQ is going to say, OK, we can't have Tesla trading 24-7 only in DeFi. We have to also trade 24-7.

1:03:51Look at the volumes happening on Saturday and a Sunday. so i i think that is going to actually push the convergence and if you think of ai trading so what we see in etoro which is super interesting over the years and i remember because we came from thread fight to crypto originally we used to close the markets in friday and then i remember those management discussions during 2017 where i was like guys look at what crypto is doing like we can't close crypto trading over the weekend we have to like enable 24 7 trading on crypto and people are like you know we're gonna have to have disks of people of trading and knock and read these arguments with my cfo in 2017 and uh and and obviously the minute we launched it like we saw it was a very good decision we saw like one weekend in 2017 that generated more revenues than entire month of earlier that year, right?

1:04:54One weekend. But historically, it's always like you see Monday, the session starts, volumes go up. Friday, the markets close, it goes down because humans want to go to their weekend. Agents don't have a weekend. When agents trade, they trade really 24-7. So you're going to see volumes spike 24-7. We're already seeing it, by the way, in eToro. You can already see it in different crypto markets. That's how you can almost differentiate between whether it's humans or agents trading. And then at some point, you know, the big banks, the exchanges, they're all going to say like, okay, we did like if there's so much trading activity 24-7, we have to do it.

1:05:43and I met recently a CEO of an exchange, like a regulated securities exchange. And I was talking to them about outside the US, when are you going to open 24-5? And he was asking, how do you support 24-5? How do you support 24-7? And the CEO of the exchange said, you know how hard it is for us to move from eight hours a day to 24-5? we're going to have to hire like 300 people i won't be able to ever sleep because to run the exchange eight hours a day requires a lot of people that they're running it and that's the huge difference between a securities traditional exchange and every single crypto exchange out there which started as crypto so it's crypto native so it ran 24 7 from day one um uh and again It's now capital markets copying crypto markets.

1:06:42And how do you think about DeFi in all of this? I think it's an amazing, amazing, amazing sandbox of innovation in finance. You know, things like Aave and Morpho and Compound. And, you know, I just look at that and I'm like, it's just or die, right? You know, stable coin, this decentralized. These are concepts when you look at them and you read the code and you work with it. You're like, this is something that requires 500 people to actually do work in a bank. And it's just code running it, right? So it's like, wow. And I think eventually the banking system, the fintech system, the TreadFi system is going to copy these elements, copy your partner, these elements and products and just embed them in like we're doing in eToro.

1:07:41And that's inevitable.

1:07:43Raoul Pal:And so doesn't a business like eToro merge in the same way where it becomes essentially code? So we announced last week also that we purchased Zengo, which is one of the leading non-custodial wallets. So we were actually in a path of building our own non-custodial wallet. I knew the founder of Zengo for a while, but we're now doubling down on our DeFi rails. We were very cautious going into DeFi as a regulated financial institution because everything we do, we consult and talk to now about 12 different regulators. So Europe, UK, US, Australia, Abu Dhabi, Singapore, and I probably forgot like another four.

1:08:29So everything we do, we go to the regulators and say, like that's what we're building. And up until I'd say two years ago, you didn't really have that path of explaining to a regulator, how do you take crypto in? How do you enable DeFi? What's DeFi now with Mika? And in a lot of markets, I think it's much clearer and it paved the way to actually have a regulated financial institution being able to build both ThreadFi and DeFi at the same pace. So now we offer yield on Zengo. We offer swaps on Zengo, right? So going from 200 crypto assets on eToro to suddenly… So these are merging as well, these two worlds.

1:09:14The worlds are completely converging of DeFi and TradFi.

1:09:18Raoul Pal:Yeah, and TradFi and crypto emerging, the whole thing is becoming generally run by code in the end. 100%. I mean, that's the process of what you're doing with the agents is basically getting code to run code. 100%. And how do you manage that when you've got a lot of staff and a lot of business? When you're saying, look what I'm doing, how do they think about this? Because it's slightly terrifying. You either give them all superpowers or you give the agents superpowers. So it's complicated to do as a business manager. Every agent that I've built that doesn't have a Torian that is a driver of that agent that is able to steer it is a project that won't survive.

1:10:11So you have to find for like, so the different agents that I created, like product law is now at the hands of the VP product editorial. E-Toro. Security claw is at the hands of one of the security architects in E-Toro. DevOps claw is in the hands of a DevOps IT architect in E-Toro. And only when I give AI of something I created, but I actually have given it now to a person who's more skilled and more knowledgeable than I am in that field, my quant claws are at the hands of my quants. right so and from and they took them like 100 like i was driving something at 200 mile per hour they're driving it now at 400 miles per hour and i'm looking at what they're doing i'm like okay you know what guys i'm gonna now install for you a gpu and i don't know if you saw there's like a fine-tuned model called chronos which is uh instead of an llm it's an llm instead for words for candle bars.

1:11:18So all it does is tries to predict the next candle and from that figure out whether you can predict the future of assets. So we're fine tuning those models. So one, is it terrifying to some people? Yes. Is it exciting and crazy for other people who suddenly get these powers? I, you know, like people came to me and told me like you made me limitless. You gave me superpowers. So I'm trying in Etoro to now build the infrastructure to give those superpowers to everybody in Etoro. And how do we sort of, how do we enable, by the way, both Etorians, so my employees, but also our 5 ,000 pro investors enrolled to the program.

1:12:07So how do we give these tools all the time? like we built in the AI studio based in Base44 six or nine months ago, which also has a super agent. Now we're basically always giving more and more tools to people to build and to do what the Toro does at scale.

1:12:28Raoul Pal:And where's the moat in the end? I've always thought the moat, at least in where we are today when there's still humans involved, has to be community. It has to be the people themselves because if not, there's no moat. That's the, you know, the essence and the motive and the heart of eToro. So, you know, the the moat eventually is that when you know, and again, for us, it's sort of where we started. People see what other people are doing. Our PI investors are talking to one another's right. So our pro investors are talking to all of the rest of the pro investors on our social network. So you can see that dialogue happening on the on the network itself, on the eToro social network.

1:13:09People are talking to one another, both the smartest people that are the pro investors, but also all the rest who want to become eventually a pro investor on eToro. And AI creates now a layer of knowledge and shared learning, which is, you know, just 100 times better. Right. So you today to communicate with people, you need to find someone, talk to someone, hope he answers you, look at what he does, form that relationship. Now you can question actually our AI agent and say, I'm looking for someone who's expert on Tesla, who wants to talk to me or alternatively, can you tell me what he would tell me?

1:13:58right so we're like once everybody has their digital twin on eToro so once our PIs have digital twins on eToro you can actually talk to our pro-investors twin on real vision you can talk

1:14:13Raoul Pal:to it in my voice it's trained on all the content not on my global macro investor content I've got another version of that but it's trained on in my voice on all of my content including all of my tweets every public video i've ever done you can give it a chart and say hey raul what do you think of this or how what's your perspective on this and it does it all am i don't get out to a whole bunch of our different kind of experts on the network first nice we should we should we should partner on that yeah i need to show you some stuff on this stuff yeah we should bring raul to to itoro to be one of the pis exactly exactly listen you're a fantastic conversation uh super interesting this is right up my street and obviously right up your street as well so we could do this for hours and we'll do it next week in Miami a bit more over dinner but listen really appreciate your time good luck with everything and thanks for inspiring us all thank you very much see you next week see ya so I love this conversation with Yoni because it's inspiring to see somebody who's built a great business already doesn't need to do this stuff but suddenly having this lease of life of realizing the world has changed and he can make bigger change.

1:15:26Raoul Pal:And that's the superpower of AI. It's giving us all superpowers to change our worlds or the worlds of others around us. And it's something I share passionately with Yoni is we can do a lot of good with this. This technology will help a lot of people. I know everybody is nervous around having this kind of intelligence at scale. But intelligence at scale is what many of us need to help us in our journeys. Anyway, see you next time. You obviously enjoyed the episode because you're here with me at the end. But listen, don't forget to go to realvision.com forward slash join and grab a free membership.

1:16:04Raoul Pal:It's an incredible community packed with alpha, great investment ideas, and the research that you need to help you unfuck your future. So get started now. Go to realvision.com forward slash join.