Arsenal and Crystal Palace’s late shows, Atleti win the Madrid derby and more!

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1:09Musa Okwonga: You may have heard something somewhere about the crisis of recycling and the problem of microplastics. But have you heard about how scientists are discovering very cool and creative solutions to fight this problem?

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2:32Musa Okwonga: Hello and welcome back to the Stadio Podcast. I'm Misok Wonga. I'm Ryan Hunn. Ryan, how are you doing? I'm doing all right, thanks, man. How are you? I'm good, I'm good. I'm bearing up. I've seen better days, but I'm good. I've got some allergies going on. Yeah, yeah. Put it this way. It's the biggest audio podcast.

2:49Ryan Hunn: Allergies are three points. That's what's going on with Misok Wonga.

2:58Ryan Hunn: Oh, goodness. Sorry. Where's the line? I shouldn't take the piss. Poor thing. Are you feeling all right other than that, though? I'm good. I'm good. I'm match fit. I'm match fit. Well, honest boss. He's good for 10 minutes at the end. It's just a flesh wound. We can probably get him on 10 minutes at the end. Hey, we hope everyone else is staying safe and well, wherever you are. And a couple of bits of admin. changing the schedule this week so we've recorded a thing actually last night with Seb Stafford-Blur about Harry Kane getting 100 goals for Bayern in record time in record time we're going to put that up on Tuesday as a Patreon episode so we're going to do today the show you're listening to we're going to do Tuesday and then we're going to do Thursday so we'll do one Champions League show this week as well so if you want to listen to those in full sign up for our membership on Patreon if you want to sign up for the podcast membership you get ad-free podcasts in full every single episode six quid a month or less if you sign up for a year or if you want to sign up for the Stadio Social Club you get all the podcasts plus access to the Stadio Discord loads of other perks and that's a little bit more patreon.com forward slash Stadio and you can listen to all of our podcasts in full ad free all of the time all of the time if you like yes other bits of admin our London live show at the South Bank Centre tickets are on sale link in the description if you want to come and see us in December go and buy a ticket for the first of our quarterly Southbank Centre shows, which is really cool.

4:30Ryan Hunn: The tickets are also on sale for the second one, which is in March. So you can also buy those in the link in the description. So yeah, today we're going to talk about big weekend in the Premier League. We'll talk about the Madrid Derby. And we'll also touch on a big result in Serie A. But should we start in the Premier League? Let's do it. And I think we should start at Selhurst Park because it set the tone for a big weekend, really. Or I suppose, to be honest, you could say that what happened at Bremford set the tone for the weekend, but I feel like, no disrespect to Manchester United, a little bit of a different story.

5:01Musa Okwonga: I mean, look, look, Crystal Palace, if someone had said to you at the start, no, put it this way, if someone had said to you two seasons ago, if someone had said to you at the start of last season that a season from now Crystal Palace would have won the FA Cup, the Community Shield, and would be the only unbeaten team left in the Premier League after six games, you would have said absolutely no way. Having lost Ebrecht Eze. In having lost incredible.

5:27Ryan Hunn: And then last season winning the FA Cup having lost Michael Alisa.

5:31Musa Okwonga: Alisa gone Eze gone and Crystal Palace are absolutely flying. It is it is incredible what they are achieving over there what Glasner has achieved with this group of players credit to all of them because they have also not to patronise them some superb footballers. What I loved about this performance this 2-1 win over Liverpool was they maximised everything. They maximised to have 28 % possession and to create that quality of chance. So it wasn't like they were just like smash and grab. They were creating beautifully worked opportunities. There's a moment actually in the Newcastle Arsenal game, it's already one of my favourite counters of the season when Trussard hits the post and the way they work the ball across.

6:13Musa Okwonga: And actually Crystal Palace worked the ball through the Liverpool lines in similarly effective fashion. Wharton was spectacular, a player that Liverpool are looking at actually. he was sensational Mateta was outstanding leading the line and it's a credit to Palace and Schlott was great with this he was very gracious as he often is he made a point that actually Palace could have had more oh god they could have been like three up at half time and should have been should have been actually yeah

6:39Ryan Hunn: yeah yeah yeah completely wild I was really impressed with Palace because before the game I felt like oh this is going to be one of those that Palace might go ahead but Liverpool will win it you know and then when Liverpool equalised late on You said it, you said, yeah, let equalise that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the response to that was really, really impressive because most teams in the league would have then held on for a point. Because a point at home against Liverpool, for most sides, is a really, really, really good result. I think the fact that they were so proactive after Liverpool levelled, it shows you a little bit more of a glimpse into the mentality at Palace now.

7:15Ryan Hunn: They went and won their first major trophy. They've got a coach who won the Europa League a few years ago. They've got some really good players. They're now progressing and they've equaled a club record unbeaten run, which goes back to 1969. If they're unbeaten in the next game, that's a new record for Palace in their entire history. Bear in mind the wealth that is in the Premier League at the moment and the teams that are in there. That's an all competitions run as well. And they are third in the league with the joint best defensive record along with Arsenal. They're the only unbeaten team left in the league and we're heading into October.

7:50Musa Okwonga: You've just got everyone, Matt. you know what it is what i love about this is you have a a group of players technically gifted tactically very smart and a coach who is exceptional who transmits calm who they know is capable of outwitting anyone in a head-to-head like anyone like glasner on his day coaching his team to the edge of their potential is good enough to like defeat any team like in in if they if they someone like Pino brought in, um, very young player. He's a bit of a gem as well. So I think slightly underrated because he spent time at Watford and Marseille and these players, they're all very, very good players.

8:34Musa Okwonga: Actually, Crystal Palace remind me of, how do I say this best? They remind me of like a really good world cup team, no, like a world cup dark horse, like Senegal in O2. They're kind of like that where they've played in, or maybe like Greece in O8, where they've played, they've got players in their squad who've trained against, been, battle-hardened against elite players in other squads. So now you've just got a bunch of really, really smart footballers who just all have responsibility and respect. So someone like Kamado, for example, who bounced around a bit after leaving Eintracht, where he was working so well with Glasner, didn't really find his place.

9:08Musa Okwonga: Now he's in a deep-lying role, playing on the counter alongside Wharton. You know, you've said this so often on Stadio, like just square pegs and square holes, and how it's not deeper than that sometimes.

9:20Ryan Hunn: the Kamada one's interesting because it took him a little while I think at Palace at first it was like alright yeah Deichi Kamada's back this is great and then it kind of it stalled a bit it felt like to me and it's really felt like he's now grown into his role within that Palace setup having more creative chops I think helps him yeah and I think being alongside Adam Wharton

9:39Musa Okwonga: is a real big thing in midfield right yeah yeah I think it was difficult with how Eze and Elisa where the creative reign that he had when he was at Eintracht he was given that opportunity at Lazio, but it never quite cohered. You see that a lot, actually. You've seen that before, transitions to other leagues, which are so different. But I feel like now, if you even look at that back line, for example, Chris Richards, and this guy was at Bayern. This is the thing. These aren't, these players, I think a lot of them have been underrated in many ways. Chris Richards was unlucky at Bayern. There was a lot of churn at the time.

10:13Musa Okwonga: It wasn't quite the right timing for him and all the rest of it. And Bayern's a tough place to make an impression early on. And there's a couple of young players that went there at that time that didn't really get their due.

10:25Ryan Hunn: Maxens Lacroix. Glasner had him at Wolfsburg. Fantastic player. You know, just a great signing. Getting people who know, I think having a few people within that side who know his stuff. System. And the system too. Yeah. And then I think the rest of the, because if you think about how Palace have struggled over a little while with managers, even having had some positive moments, they've struggled to maintain that full belief. You know, there was a real buzz about Patrick Vieira. When it fell off, it fell off fast. And I think this summer, a lot of people saw the stuff around Gaye and Eze leaving.

11:04Ryan Hunn: That felt like the moment where this Palace project was going to fall off. And now look, we're only heading into October. The season is long. But it is beyond, I think, what most people would have expected from Palace in terms of a start, especially after losing someone like Eza. I think the thing about Eza, which was interesting though, and maybe that can help us transition onto Arsenal in a sec, it was such a goodwill departure and I think that can actually really help the atmosphere around it. You know, he won the FA Cup. He scored the winning goal in the FA Cup final. If they'd lost Gehi that late in the window, I think that one would have felt sour.

11:39Ryan Hunn: And I think it could have changed the mood around the place. I think keeping hold of Gehi and then him, you know, just being very professional about the whole thing. I think he actually deserves a huge amount of credit because, you know, it looked like he kind of wanted that move. Yeah, yeah. And probably still does. Probably still does. Yeah. But he was like, actually, I'm here. I'm not going to make a noise about it. I'm just going to keep going. And I think the whole place is better for it. And Glasner's management of that, I think it was so, deserves a bit of credit because he sounded like he flexed when he needed to flex a little bit.

12:08Ryan Hunn: And was just like, look, if gay he goes, I'm gone. Yeah, because he knows,

12:11Musa Okwonga: look, you're playing a 3-4-3 in the Premier League and everyone knows that's your system. and we know you know from other from other clubs that you need very specific pieces to make that work gay is a key part of that and actually if you think of that he's fact he's lost elisa lost as a but he has the core if you're playing a counter you're playing a counter attack where you want the back three solid enough that you can have people playing progressive passes wharton is in a position where he knows that behind him it's solid enough that he can actually just like be a proper playmaker that is such a specific configuration that you need and of course like glasner's going to be like you're taking this for granted to sell gay like this is a bit of a hot take but in terms of palace gay would have been a bigger loss in terms of how they set up danese structurally not because he's a better football necessarily

13:00Ryan Hunn: i'm not saying that but structurally yeah just a lack of replacement because glasner's teams are

13:06Musa Okwonga: built from the back they've always been like that from the walsberg days whatever like they've They're built from the back and even before that, obviously. So I think they're just in a fantastic position. I would only say, and Palace fans will know this better than anyone, this next window feels so important. It feels so important. Like a couple of pieces might be necessary because Liverpool, you know, Neil Atkinson mentioned the Anfield, from the Anfield wrap, they're looking really at Wharton. Gay looks like he might go in the summer and they need to get another creative option. the good thing is playing like this they're going to put themselves on everyone's radar and they'll be such an exciting destination

13:44Ryan Hunn: I think they're going to go far in the Conference League they could potentially win that if they're in the Europa League next season or even better potentially you never know it's a long season I think they'll be fine like that

13:54Musa Okwonga: an incredible record of developing players for sure yeah

13:56Ryan Hunn: from a Liverpool point of view though ironically you did see the impact of losing Hugo Eketico you did I think it then meant that what Vietz they had to shift stuff around a little bit And while I think they did enough to maybe nick a point, Liverpool, because they really ramped it up when they were chasing the game. Eddie Nketi were the great winner. Yeah, fantastic. And I thought Arna Slott was pretty... Fair. I think he's rarely not, though. I mean, because if you just looked at the stats, you would have been like, oh, well, Liverpool dominated the game. They should have won something. But I feel like a lot of that was game state related, right?

14:32Ryan Hunn: Yeah, and he said as much. Yeah, and he was just like, Palace were better than us than they deserve to win. and I think sometimes that's just it that's not a I don't think this is from a Liverpool point of view results like this are going to happen I think the way that Liverpool have been playing this season so far a result like this was going to happen and I'm surprised it's taken actually this long despite getting a late equaliser it's hard to maintain that run of kind of getting late winners and Palace is a difficult place to go they are a really good football team that's a tricky away day and yeah many many teams have have have struggled at Palace.

15:08Ryan Hunn: So not anything to get too kind of introspective about. They'll have Hugo Eketike coming back. Alexander Izac is still getting used to playing in that Liverpool side. Should be fine. I think so, yeah. Yeah, I mean, but then weirdly it kind of put the pressure all on Arsenal because Arsenal go into Newcastle, a place that they've not got a good record in recently. I think only... Mikel Arteta has only lost away at City more times and he's lost away at Newcastle as Arsenal manager. And I have to admit, I was dreading this game. Rightly so. Just a few games, genuinely watching the game, few games that I enjoy less as an Arsenal fan than Newcastle away.

15:51Musa Okwonga: Which is funny because they started brilliantly. I thought they had, ironically, they went a goal down after half an hour and they'd done very little wrong until then. You know, it's so interesting. The only mistake really in the first 30-odd minutes that was significant was Mosquera giving away a corner under vertical pressure. That was really it. It was really it. And this is the fascinating thing in terms of what they were punished for. Two very good early efforts. And I mentioned earlier that the counter, the counter attack that Arsenal created that led to Troste hitting the post was absolutely elite.

16:26Musa Okwonga: Every aspect of that was executed perfectly. You have players that haven't played that many games with each other moving in perfect sync. like Saka combining really really well should have been a penalty for Jokeres as well that to me is I don't understand that decision at all

16:41Ryan Hunn: Saka should have been No I don't and I know that a lot of people will probably like disagree I'm really glad I'm really glad that it wasn't decisive wasn't about that I don't have a dog because it actually allows you to then like criticise it when even though it wasn't decisive Totally yeah I have no dog in this fight but that looked to me like a clear penalty Even with the touch

16:58Musa Okwonga: I think it's a penalty Even with the touch absolutely So then Newcastle going in, a goal up. Volta Marder, just a wonderful footballer. Really good header, that. Love his skill set. Yeah, a great header, but also just, I love that. The presence of the penalty, but also the way he drops out wide, as quick feet, can receive the ball in traffic, take into traffic and emerge with it. Just a great proposition, great feet. Funnily enough, that was the first time Arsenal were really tested in that area, in the game.

17:26Ryan Hunn: When they were wobbling a bit.

17:27Musa Okwonga: Yeah, absolutely. second half Newcastle actually again acquitted themselves very well and looked like they were seeing the game out and listen put some respect to Marino's name a great header from him can we stop

17:39Ryan Hunn: talking about Marino as like a defensive player because he's just not he's not

17:44Musa Okwonga: what he does is again and we'll keep saying this until it sinks in he's a tactfully intelligent player that observes whatever brief he has given if he's told to play as an out and out nine he'll do it if he's told to play as someone like a Ayah Tharbell who drops a bit deeper and combines he will do that and if he's told to have a defensive brief midfield he'll do that as well like he will play however he's meant to play and it was interesting because the goal that was constructed well we first of all three headers in this game which is also an oddity I think but the ball in from Rice for his header was beautiful yeah and then Gabriel with the main character energy and again shutting down a really good header that because that is a busy box it's a busy box and And look, can we just look at the context of what Arsenal have done?

18:29Musa Okwonga: They got a point against City that Arsenal in previous years might not have been expected to get in that context. And they got this win at Newcastle. And a win at St. James' Park has been a good result since the beginning of time. Since the first, you know, since they first started putting up the stands at St. James' Park, it's been a great result. And even more so now, because there's something about them matching the Liverpool result. I think psychologically it's quite powerful and that was a tough Arsenal a difficult first run of games and emerging from that at Liverpool's shoulder it's super impressive it's super impressive that

19:09Ryan Hunn: I wouldn't have put Arsenal down to come out of those games with 13 points I don't think

19:15Musa Okwonga: dude I think it's a really impressive start for them yeah I agree

19:19Ryan Hunn: I think that it felt like a big weekend or it felt like a really big result for Arsenal in the sense that I don't think they could have taken another week of discourse. I agree. And I know they've got the Champions League on Wednesday which would have shortened it a little bit but until then it would have been PGMOL and Arsenal kind of can't do it in big games or bottled it again or Mikel Arteta's doing this this and this. What I think people saw in this game which I think is really important this is probably the most obvious example of it this season, you can see how many ways Arsenal can hurt you.

19:54Ryan Hunn: Yes,

19:54Musa Okwonga: definitely, definitely.

19:55Ryan Hunn: Because they didn't rely on set pieces to create in this game. They absolutely kind of tore Newcastle apart at certain parts in that first half. And Eze was dropping into pockets, had a couple of really good opportunities.

20:07Musa Okwonga: He looked really good in that first half in particular.

20:08Ryan Hunn: Trossard kind of coming a little bit more central. They had like Rice, Supermendi, Eze and Trossard, and it just gave Califuri that whole left side. This is

20:16Musa Okwonga: my favourite configuration of Arsenal.

20:18Ryan Hunn: But then switching it again, because this is, and this is where I think I defended the Trossard starting last week because I do think he's a problem for defenders. He's not going to beat people on the outside and he's not going to beat people massively for pace, but he creates problems and he does wear defenders out a bit. Arsenal knew they had to go and win this game and it was evident from the jump that they were going to go and try and do it. They weren't going to try and keep it tight. They were going to go and win the game. But yeah, I think the way that Arteta changed it, it benefited Arsenal again he changed it last week it benefited Arsenal yeah just being that visibly proactive and obviously proactive I think was quite good for just the Arsenal narrative in quotation marks

21:00Musa Okwonga: also just as for Trosso because I thought he was actually really good last week against Kusunov in that first half and I thought he was defended really really well I thought he made a lot of the right incursions and I like him against a deep lying defence to be honest as a starter

21:12Ryan Hunn: I'm interested to see what Mikel Arteta does you know potentially with Ezzet and Perdigo on the pitch

21:18Musa Okwonga: in some games he could go to two eights and just one six. In some games, he can go for that, I think, where you have teams just like lying deep for extended periods. I think Zubemendi is absolutely good enough to shut up shop and they can just rotate. And I, look, I mean, joke in the pack, but just throw Rice further forward at some stages as well. Let him, because I think Rice, if you're going to unlock some of Rice's goal scoring by the pitch, then I think, I think it's quite an exciting opportunity. But yeah, that's two great games at the top of the league. And also, Shout out to Sunderland, who've had a lot of changes in the summer, brought in new players.

21:54Musa Okwonga: Alderete, one of them, getting the winner against Nottingham Forest. And just great to see them mix the Champions League spots. Incredible start. And look, we've talked before about the three teams that come up struggling, but I think we've got a really good crop this time, a crop who've adjusted well. And I think it's credit to those three clubs to understand the adjustments you have to take coming to the Premier League.

22:17Ryan Hunn: barely become the first newly promoted side that drop into the relegation zone yeah

22:23Musa Okwonga: well can I say the other end of that result before I forget this point Nottingham Forest Ange has had a difficult start there they go to Newcastle next week yeah that's not that's not a place you want to be going if you're struggling for form I mean going out going out in the League Cup to Swansea not you know they're not not catching a break and i i don't know i didn't like i didn't like the sacking at the time i like it like even less now west ham obviously nuna is taking over there it's taken over yeah weird signing weird timing i've seen some stuff going around that potter

23:02Ryan Hunn: was asked to continue until the international break where he then was going to be replaced and he was just like no i'm good i'm out like yeah yeah fair play like yeah yeah definitely

23:12Musa Okwonga: hope he got his payout well no reason why he wouldn't have done and yeah just yeah tough times for Forrest I'm not quite sure what's going on there

23:22Ryan Hunn: let's pick up Man City very quick because they beat Burnley 5-1 great result for them commanding result

23:27Musa Okwonga: smooth smooth smooth progress for City in this game and that front five they've got there Savino, Reinders, Foden, Doku and Haaland and Savino getting a new contract which is a really great point of confidence yeah it is actually we've talked about

23:41Ryan Hunn: I think that little wobble for City might take the heat off them a little bit while Pep's trying to re-figure them out. I don't think it's necessarily a massively bad thing in the long run because they're still only five points off the top, despite having back-to-back defeats a few games ago.

23:59Musa Okwonga: There's an element of this being Pep's new team. Savinho, that's such a huge rate of confidence. He's 21. He's super young. So Pep saying, look, he will go on and be absolutely what we need him to be. That's great for him in terms of voter confidence. And City just looking really, really smooth. Burnley are not a team that others have put away easily so far this year. So this is one of those results where you look at it and go, like, no, this is a side that Liverpool really struggled to break down, for example. And City absolutely cooked them. So yeah, full respect, full respect to City for that.

24:36Musa Okwonga: that's a great result. Elsewhere, Brentford beating Manchester United 3-1. There was a lot right, this is interesting because Brentford first of all, a result they really needed. They've had a bit of a struggle, a slightly different start to the season. A great win for them and they were very good value for it obviously. In terms of United, the thing about this was, this was kind of, there was a bit more riding on this for United than there was for Brentford because there'd been a lot of talk about, well, actually the teams that United have played so far have got like, you know, it's a really tough start for them statistically and all the rest of it.

25:13Musa Okwonga: But in terms of the eye test, United looked like they were in disarray. They looked like a bit of a mess, to be honest. There'll be a lot of talk about Bruno Finanj not scoring the penalty at a crucial stage, but you shouldn't be relying on that stuff at that late stage of the game to be like that was the turning point that wasn't the turning point the turning point was that Brentford basically just took the best adventure opportunities and were the better team so shout out to them Brian beat Chelsea that oh my god Danny Welbeck look Welbeck for Brighton obviously a superb result and we've talked before about you know a couple of times end of last season where Brighton weren't getting it over the line and they just feel like they've got that.

26:06Musa Okwonga: They've reconfigured a little bit. This is a great result for them. Well-baked looks superb. Chelsea, there's some concerns now. There's conversation in the league. About Mureska, yeah, back-to-back red cards. So a loss of discipline there.

26:24Musa Okwonga: Struggling to see the plan at times with Chelsea. I see the talent and I see the quality of the individual performances and I even see great passages of play. but the overall structure sometimes I find a bit confusing I have to say and it looks like a lot of Chelsea fans do too to be honest so we'll see how that plays out Mureska not doing himself the greatest number of favours with some of the it's a bit noisy at the moment some of the conversation it's a bit noisy in terms of some of the comments yeah

26:54Ryan Hunn: just very quickly Villa followed up their first win of the season midweek with the first league win of the season they beat Fulham 3-1 on Sunday so Wolves got their first point of the season could have been all three but a 94th minute equaliser from Jaupelinha got a point for Spurs at home that's a really really good point for Wolves they were much better I thought in this game gutted not to win it to be honest yeah definitely and then Everton West Ham Nuno's first game tonight that's the final round of the Premier League final game of the Premier League weekend final game shout out Leeds-Bourmouth 2-0 great game would have been a fantastic win for Leeds that that's still a good point for Leeds they're picking up points and they're just kind of ticking over responded well to defeats for example after the Arsenal game they got that really good point at home to Newcastle they lost away to Fulham then they went and beat Wolves

27:40Musa Okwonga: they've recovered so well from the Arsenal defeat

27:42Ryan Hunn: I think so yeah they just moved on one that I think is just putting it down to you know like the NBA have those like schedule losses right they're just like yeah it's the fifth game on a road trip we're going to lose that one probably and just be alright with it I think that was just sometimes teams just get hot against you and that's the way it is yeah move on we don't expect anything from that game if we pick anything up it's a bonus we've got to focus elsewhere I've been quite impressed with Leeds actually so far this season overall yeah no me too me too that Everton game on the first game of the season for them just really set the tone I think

28:12Musa Okwonga: and if they'd had better finishing earlier in this game could have the points should have been out of sight but yeah all good all good they go again

28:18Ryan Hunn: on the West Ham thing I think we'll try and do a bit of a deep dive on West Ham soon they strike them as someone that we'd like to do same with Palace actually but we'll have to space those out a little bit and find the right people to get on. But yeah, so that'll do us to refer me like. Hi, friends. Sean Linda from Two Black Guys with Good Credit here. Whether you're running a non-profit, a school, or a small business, Walmart Business is here to support your mission. They make it easy to order what you need, from tech and cleaning supplies to everyday essentials, all at low prices and with helpful tools like spend, tracking, and tax-exempt purchasing for eligible organizations.

28:54Ryan Hunn: Because when your operations are smooth, your impact can be bigger. Visit business.walmart.com to get started.

29:28Ryan Hunn: Thank you. Terms and conditions apply. See offer page for details.

29:34Ryan Hunn: Let's go to La Liga and there's only one place to begin. Betis. Instead of having the kids as the mascots this weekend, they had some of the club's oldest members as mascots this weekend. Never too late to dream.

29:50Musa Okwonga: Never too late to dream. It was so lovely.

29:53Ryan Hunn: If you haven't seen it, go and just check the highlights of them walking out. It was so lovely. they got a 2-0 win over Ross soon which was a good result but the main game in the weekend of the weekend in La Liga was the incredible Madrid derby straight banger on Saturday Atletico Madrid 5 Real Madrid 2 Atleti took the lead early on with a Robin Lenormand header Real Madrid came back and it was actually 2-1 up great goals from Kylian Mbappe which seems to happen in an instant yeah it just came out of nowhere it felt like and a really really really good finish from Mardegu later and Atleti were in trouble actually it felt like they were in big big trouble it felt like the atmosphere had kind of gone quite flat they'd started to wobble as it turned out it was very much calling ambulance but not for me which is just like the kind of the Atleti that is the Atleti meme

30:52Musa Okwonga: oh totally do you know what's interesting do you remember when they destroyed um rail on the pre-season was it seven three or something i always think about that result because the biggest full stern in terms of the season atleti played and the pre-season they had and look at you know in terms of what it could have went for felix and all the rest of it but this this was like it's such a strange result because you look at atleti so far this year and the challenges they've had and the performance they put in they've been good in patches but overall disappointing i think it's fair to say But in this game, I mean, let's first give credit to Atleti and then critique, I think, Real.

31:28Musa Okwonga: I think it's only fair to do it that way round. If it struck me about Atleti in this game, they were always dangerous. And they were dangerous because they targeted a key strength, which was Carreras. Well, a key strength of Real. Carreras has been great so far this year. But Urente, who's really had the hot hand since his showing at Anfield, really went at that flank. and I just don't think they were expecting that level of intensity aggression down the flank Real Madrid particularly against a left back who's been very very good this year so that was a key part of it other aspects other elements unfortunate injury to Militao but then also like what they also did Real and this is maybe I don't know if Xabi Lanzo regrets this bring in Jude Bellingham as the 10 for this game when Bellingham's been out for a lot of the time bring him back in but Arda Goulet has been playing really well defensively as the 10.

32:23Musa Okwonga: So he's your first line of defense. You take him away and Bellingham is match fit, but is he match sharp? And then you've got Mastantuono and Goulet that had their really good chemistry. So you're taking away not only the defensive heft or intensity, but you're taking away the attacking chemistry. Like the best attacking, the best attack behind Mbappe this season for me has been Rodrigo, Goulet and Mastantuono, right? And now you've only got one of those starting and that person's out of position. I think this was a mistake. Especially when Rodrigo defensively gives you a lot more protection against Llorente marauding than Vinicius does.

33:00Musa Okwonga: So you're almost giving them a roadmap. And the moment Simeone saw that, he must have thought, do you know what? Even when we're 2-1 down or 2-0 down, I still fancy us to create opportunities because Vinicius isn't going to cook us defensively. And that's as it transpired, really. That's really... And Leti just kept hammering away. Not just at the flanks, but a lot of it came down there and they were really really good value as time went on I mean Alvarez has been spectacular

33:25Ryan Hunn: can we talk about Alvarez a little bit yeah let's do it he feels like he has now I wonder if this is also a timing thing because of where Antoine Griezmann is now at in terms of the stage of his career but Julian Alvarez strikes me as he's already become what I think Xiao Felix was supposed to become at Atleti yes but he's obviously more of an out and out striker than or more of an out and out attacking goal threat than Jao Felix was but he had a similarly big money move yeah and a lot of people like oh okay let's see and there were clear pluses from the beginning but they were also a bit like oh okay this season specifically already I mean to be fair it's been going on for a little while but now after the hat trick in midweek and then his performance this weekend in like such a seismic fixture like this is the biggest game of Atleti's season the derby is the game right and to drag and I think he did drag I think he dragged Atleti back into the game yes and just his all-round performance but the two goals as well it just struck me as this is a guy who now thinks that this is his team Totally And I don't think Xao Felix not wanting to compare and contrast directly but I think for Xao Felix it almost felt like a little bit too early if you look like Julien Alvarez went at 23 I think

34:56Musa Okwonga: And also having won a World Cup a Libertadores Yeah You know and a Champions League like had done and had done that in multiple positions you know Xao Felix his footballing education was not fully rounded. He kind of went there as a second striker for a huge amount of money after one brilliant breakout season in Europe. That was really the extent of it whereas Alvarez basically... For the same age by the way. Alvarez, the difference is that Alvarez was a superstar in just who deserved a stage. Yeah, but that's what I mean. Who deserved a stage. Yeah, totally. Jao Felix went when he was,

35:29Ryan Hunn: what, 19? It was a very unfair burden.

35:32Musa Okwonga: We were worried about it at the time actually. Well, I thought

35:35Ryan Hunn: there were signs like there were signs where he felt like he was becoming less of the Xiao Felix that we thought he was going to be when he was at Benfica and becoming more moulded by Simeone. The protagonist, yeah. That look, there was a period of about six months in the season they won the league, I think, where it looked like... That first half of the season. This is a different Xiao Felix that we thought he was going to be, but this is actually quite a scary proposition. and then after that season it just never it never really materialised it was so disappointing because the ability is so clearly there for Charles Felix and will always be there

36:15Musa Okwonga: yeah

36:15Ryan Hunn: yeah they're different players you don't want to kind of directly compare and contrast but like the thing that Julian Alvarez Alvarez is such

36:21Musa Okwonga: he's a such do you know what he was he was a lot more box fresh like he as a fit for Atleti was so much more a natural fit being from Argentina not that that's the only thing but there's a there's more of a connection there with Simeone immediately immediately the style of play like actually there's a lot of similarity between Atleti at their best and the way they move the ball at their best and the Argentina team that won the World Cup there's a lot of similarities but also the

36:49Ryan Hunn: the 100 games for City the 100 games for City I think were massive like just playing in that system and playing like not being

36:55Musa Okwonga: self-sacrificial

36:56Ryan Hunn: playing as a second striker

36:57Musa Okwonga: playing as a winger playing as and was at one point taking all the set pieces yeah I mean just an incredible incredible

37:03Ryan Hunn: The free kick he hit in this game was

37:06Musa Okwonga: unbelievable. I think with Courtois as well, given their specific relationship, the fact that they had that horrible shootout, him basically fumbling the shootout, not even his fault really, kicking it twice.

37:20Ryan Hunn: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

37:22Musa Okwonga: So all of that is there. He came into this game ready and I think that I just don't think Real were ready for the intensity of what was unleashed. I don't think Xabi Alonso was quite ready either, despite his history as a Real player and having played in La Liga. I don't think he was necessarily ready for this intensity because I don't think if he was fully ready for it, he picks the team he does. And that's not a knock. That's not a knock on him. It's more that that's a lot of moving parts.

37:50Ryan Hunn: It felt like a lot of change for such a big game.

37:52Musa Okwonga: Do you know what I mean? And I'm not, it's not a knock on him. It's more like, it's more like if he could go back and who knows, people don't second guess themselves that much, but if you look back and go, maybe he picked the same team again, I don't know, but would you have a different conversation with yourself about the type of intensity and chemistry you can expect from your Real team facing this Atleti? And I think as well, the challenge now is it's not just a defeat, it's a humiliation and you lose your aura. And Real, I think at this point, they started the season quite business-like fashion.

38:25Mbappe up to speed, nice rotation of the attackers,

38:29Musa Okwonga: and now all that's kind of gone. Like, it's only one defeat, don't get me wrong, and they're still doing one in the league. What it does very crucially is it's like, oh, this is how you get at these lot. This is how you disorientate them. And Bellingham's face on the bench after he was subbed was like, it wasn't like a kind of, a negativity, it was more like, this was, it's a real hurricane out there. So yeah, some disappointment for Real, but incredible win for Atletian. Also just, what a game of football.

38:57Ryan Hunn: And they've, Turned it around. Yeah, they really have. After that really troubling start, you know, they've now gone back-to-back wins. They've won three of the last four in the league. There's still seven points off Barcelona, but where they were, the noise around that has now kind of gone, especially since the Liverpool game.

39:17Musa Okwonga: Yeah, it's funny. There could be such a thing as a good defeat. Them clawing back those goals actually in the second half, them having that strong second half, I think, laid the platform for a lot of this, actually. because it was the first time maybe they'd shown I mean it was a big game that Liverpool won showing that level of self-belief in the second half when it looked like they were just going to get absolutely worked and then Liverpool clinching it late but still Atletico take so much that was positive from that so yeah a great game anywhere else in La Liga

39:47Ryan Hunn: two undefeated sides left in La Liga this season can you name them off the top of your head

39:54Musa Okwonga: er yeah

40:00Ryan Hunn: Well one of them came from a goal down to beat Real Sociedad on the weekend.

40:03Musa Okwonga: Oh they're unbeaten still.

40:05Ryan Hunn: Barcelona are unbeaten.

40:06Musa Okwonga: You know what's so weird about Barcelona? I assume they've been beaten. I just assume because of the chaos. Can I say in this, before you name the other one, who's the other one before we go on?

40:16Ryan Hunn: Elche. Elche are unbeaten this season. They beat Salto Vigo 2-1 on the weekend.

40:21Musa Okwonga: That's fantastic. My God.

40:22Ryan Hunn: Yep. Despite missing the penalty as well, Rafa Mir missed the penalty. but they love Rafumir one of my favourite nines wow it's great but yeah just Elche doing unbelievable this season and do you know one of the reasons for that Andre Silva three goals in six games this season for Elche

40:41Musa Okwonga: that's awesome yeah really good signing I think

40:44Ryan Hunn: but let's go back to Barcelona

40:45Musa Okwonga: just before I forget on that they need to sort out that finishing they need to sort the finishing out because they created a lot and yeah they left Pedri was spectacular. You can't keep throwing away Pedri masterpieces. Another standing ovation for him. Laminya Mal coming on in the second half as if he was in Ballon d 'Or revenge mode. This man was on a mission. He looked spectacular, but this Barcelona do this too often. They, when they should just take, take things, they should take games away from teams. It's going to be a long season and they have to get a lot better at putting games away and managing them because Real Sociedad still could have got something late on.

41:22Musa Okwonga: even after like Lamin-Yama went into the stratosphere so yeah that's that's something to keep an eye on I know I said this last season you know Barcelona they're brilliant but I also don't know if they're going to win everything or win nothing I feel similar again this year Rashford look good by the way yeah looks really good keeping eyes on it

41:40Ryan Hunn: but yeah so it sits from the corner for Koundé's goal yep yep yep but also just shouts to Drogh Fernandes making his debut 17 years old making his competitive debut

41:49Musa Okwonga: it's adorable he was so excited when I heard the call up I got so excited

41:52Ryan Hunn: he did pretty well I think but yeah so top of La Liga Barcelona are point clear of Real Madrid now they would go top and Villarreal are third they won again beat Athletic Club on the weekend only the one defeat for Villarreal this season which is against Atleti and then Elche are fourth they're a point ahead of Atleti who are level on points with Betis and Espanyol talking atop of the league segue to Serie A let's do Serie A Milan

42:20Musa Okwonga: defeating Napoli 2-1. They were really good Milan as well. They were brilliant, particularly the first half hour. Surprisingly, I mean, Allegri had been criticised a lot of the time for the more defensive nature of his football, but they were thrilling. It was almost like, I mean, Allegri, I think sometimes unfairly maligned in that sense. Really, I think, in this game, a question of, start faster Napoli, like put your foot on the pedal and just go at them. And their transitions were spectacular. Pulisic, you know, He was brilliant, man. He was really, really good. Exceptional.

42:54Ryan Hunn: His assist for the first goal was incredible. It's one of the moments of the season. At one point, it reminded me a little bit, do you remember of Gareth Bale in the Copa del Rey final?

43:01Musa Okwonga: Yes, yes, yes, yes.

43:02Ryan Hunn: He didn't go quite as far off the pitch, but there was one point where I was like, there's no way he's going to keep this in. There's no way he's going to keep this in. He also had more traffic to get through. Yeah, and he got down the byline, crossed it in, great putt, squared it across, great assist. But his goal, his finish was great because it just kind of

43:21Musa Okwonga: with the layoff who looked great as well. He was excellent.

43:23Ryan Hunn: Wasn't a lot of time to do anything. It was a really good finish.

43:26Musa Okwonga: Yeah. So, so good. They were obviously delighted to have Luka Modric though as well, who was just an incredible get. And it's the perfect team for him, actually. It's the perfect team because you've got super smart attackers on the counter. You've also got a team that's smart enough to sit and control, and he can just control possession for them. There's a great video that AC Milan posted, I think on their Instagram, like a reel of Modric to Spacey with a masterclass and they've turned up the mic so you can hear the ball just pinging around and it's the most satisfying thing it's like football ASMR listening to Modric just like you know cypher the ball around and Money Mike was great in goal as well

44:06Ryan Hunn: very good

44:07Musa Okwonga: for Milan yeah and it had to be because Napoli I think they brought it once they went two down in the first half hour they turned on some intensity De Bruyne got a penalty but it wasn't enough and Milan top of Serie A and belonging there.

44:22Ryan Hunn: And they've got Juve on the weekend. Tasty.

44:25Musa Okwonga: You look at the core, the three leaders of that team were Teo Hernandez, Rafael Liao and Mike Mignon. Right. And now you have, so Teo Hernandez out the door, Rafael Liao is off the bench, but they're not the kind of, the leadership of Milan that was criticised much. And, you know, Matteo Benetti talking about this a lot last year in terms of Milan's got the wrong leaders. The work they've done now, Pavlovich is a really good option that side Estepenian who got a red card in this game but I loved the signing actually from Brighton it's a great get for them that midfield just looks so well balanced it actually reminds me quite it reminds me a bit of the inter midfield actually yeah you know like when Inter like having

45:05Ryan Hunn: when they get it right yeah

45:06Musa Okwonga: yeah Chalinole running the counter Chalinole sitting deep and you've got Mkhitaryan running the counter not so much now but and Barella it's a similar configuration there and it's just Looks solid. Looks solid.

45:20Ryan Hunn: Yeah, man. Elsewhere in Serie A, Roma continues to do well under Gasparini. They beat Helles Verona yesterday. Good week for them. So we've got Milan, Napoli, Roma all on 12 points. Juve on 11 points. They drew at home to Atalanta. Two points behind them, Inter who beat Cagliari. And yeah, they're coming up this weekend. Milan go to Juve. On the Bundesliga stuff, we're going to save the Harry Kane stuff for tomorrow. We're going to put that episode up with Seb. But very quickly, Bayern beat Werder Bremen 4-0 on Friday night. Dortmund continue to do well. They beat Mainz 2-0 and they're two points behind Bayern.

45:58Ryan Hunn: Those are the only two unbeaten sides in the league. RB Leipzig have kind of turned it around after that early Bayern result. I was quite worried about them. They've crept up. Good win for them. Admittedly, they've had not the trickiest run in the world. Next week's going to be really interesting because they go to Dortmund. So I think that's going to be... Is that a Friday game? It is the Saturday game. Sorry. It's on Saturday. So that's going to be a real kind of test for them. Actually, next weekend, there's a really good round of fixtures next weekend because Bayern go to Eintracht as well.

46:29Ryan Hunn: Union go to Leverkusen. Union, Juno with Haas Fou.

46:33Musa Okwonga: Oh, Leverkusen as well. Under Hulman looking good. Good win for them at Pauli. Yeah, 1-2 at St. Pauli, yeah. Good win for them at St. Pauli. And they're moving up well. And St. Pauli with a good start to the season all the same. A team that does not have a good start to the season. Borussia mentioned Gladbach on that

46:48Ryan Hunn: on the Gladbach stuff we talked about that with Seb so we're going to put that up Tuesday yes so yeah we'll leave the rest of the Bundesliga stuff until then just a quick shout out for the WSL because Arsenal big weekend again man Chelsea beating West Ham 4-0 means they're top of the league still by two points over Manchester United beat Liverpool 2-0 City beating London City Lionesses 4-1 commanding and it's Man City Arsenal next week Arsenal are struggling in back-to-back draws. They drew a Villa and they're already four points behind Chelsea. They're currently, they're also a point behind Spurs

47:20Musa Okwonga: who beat Leicester City. Some subpar finishing and this one cost Arsenal. Yeah.

47:24Ryan Hunn: Anything else you want to shout out while we're here?

47:27Musa Okwonga: No, I think that's it for me.

47:28Ryan Hunn: All right then, everyone. Yeah, don't forget we'll be back Tuesday and Thursday this week. If you want to sign up to hear both of those podcasts in full, ad-free, go to patreon.com forward slash stadio. You can either sign up for the podcast membership or the stadio social club membership and don't forget London listeners go and get your tickets for the Southbank Centre the link is in the description and until tomorrow why don't you check the Stadio Archers play us on Spotify and speaking of which play now on a tune that we probably should have played out on ages ago based on the title sounds like a sounds like it should be like Musa Kwonga's anthem

48:02Musa Okwonga: ha ha ha

48:04Ryan Hunn: tracked by Dream Team called there he is

48:07Musa Okwonga: ha ha ha ha anything you would like to add

48:11Ryan Hunn: Musa Kwonga what can I add to that nothing further alright everyone much love back with you tomorrow see you then oh there he is

48:21Musa Okwonga: there he is

48:22Ryan Hunn: looking at you across the road standing there across the road he's smiling now

48:44Ryan Hunn: I'm smiling back I look away

48:59So I turn my head

49:04Ryan Hunn: To look again I get you back

49:19Musa Okwonga: Every time we meet

49:24Ryan Hunn: I am so shy Every time we meet I pass him by Oh, I don't want to lose it No, I don't want to lose it No, I don't want to lose it He winks his eyes Oh, I can't stop

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