Barça's La Liga win, Premier League drama and Venezia’s parade

0:22Musa Okwonga: Hello and welcome back to the Stadio Podcast. I'm Musa Okwonga. I'm Ryan Hunn. Ryan, how are you doing? I'm alright thanks man now how are you how are your jangled nerves I am very well indeed

0:35Ryan Hunn: yeah I'd rather not do that again don't worry you won't have to you won't have to oh no I probably will that's the thing yeah I probably will at some point oh goodness I cannot wait for this season to be done man honestly it's too much but anyway we hope everyone's staying safe and well wherever you are a very very quick bit of admin shout out for our next live show at the South Bank Centre in London. It's the Thursday after the World Cup final in the summer. Tickets are in the bio or the podcast description. Come and see us and Nish Kumar at the South Bank Centre. Very much looking forward to that.

1:12Ryan Hunn: Also, patreon.com forward slash stadio. There'll be one more podcast this week on Thursday. So if you want to sign up, you get every episode ad-free in full on a podcast membership. If you want to sign up for the Stadio Social Club, you also get access to the Stadio Social Club Discord and loads of other perks like merch discounts etc. There will be some stuff going up from Venezia this week as well on socials as well as Kickback Soccer. So check kickbacksoccer.com for our little partnership with Kickback and that is all the admin. So today we're going to talk about Barca winning La Liga. The first time they've ever done it by winning the league with a classico we're going to talk about venezia winning the league and getting promoted back to seria b and the title parade on saturday which i was at wild thing to witness unbelievable yeah yeah um so we're going to talk about that and we'll talk about some other stuff as well but there is only one place to begin actually yeah Actually, I was going to say

2:16Musa Okwonga: Mainz 1, Union Berlin 3. And it's not the Drissoliga. No, no.

2:24Musa Okwonga: I thought, well, actually, Marie-Louise Etter taking Union 2-3-1 win over Mainz. The Urs Fischer derby. That is absolutely incredible.

2:36Ryan Hunn: Isn't it so perfect? To win that one, it's amazing. That specific game against that Mainz team.

2:41Musa Okwonga: Who have been on a tear since the last year. It's so perfect. And also like Mainz with a history of great coaches. All of it's perfect. And the look on her face at the end, I mean, that's just gold. Wonderful all rounds. Yeah, incredible. Incredible.

2:56Ryan Hunn: Great win. We weren't going to start here, but while we were in the Bundesliga, narrow win for Bayern over Wolfsburg on Saturday night. Michaelise Banger. Leipzig with a narrow win over St. Pauli, which means that St. Pauli following Heidenheim's kind of wild win against Köln yesterday St. Pauli are bottom the three clubs bottom of the Bundesliga are all on 26 points Wolfsburg Heidenheim St. Pauli St. Pauli face Wolfsburg at the Millentor next week and they have to win and hope that they either win by a bigger margin than Heidenheim or Heidenheim don't win in order to escape automatic relegation and qualify for the relegation playoff against It's the third team in the Zweite Bundesliga who, again, that's up for grabs and that will be up for grabs on the final day next week.

3:48Ryan Hunn: So a wild end to the season at the bottom end of the Bundesliga. We're actually going to start with the Premier League. All right, so Arsenal securing a 1-0 win away at West Ham followed up Man City's impressive win over Brentford, I thought.

4:04Musa Okwonga: Yes. Against the very good Brentford side who defended very well, had a lot to play for themselves, playing for a European place. So they really brought it. And Jeremy Dock, who again, the game breaker.

4:18Ryan Hunn: So basically, short story, as you were at the top, no need to talk about anything else, move on. Fine with that? Fine with that? We good with that? No?

4:28Musa Okwonga: I just think, someone said it best, there was a comment from someone on Instagram that really summed up the nature of what they had to deal with in this game. Arsenal to come through. So someone said, Master Ragebait, which is the title of the account, by winning tomorrow, West Ham can potentially avoid relegation, stop one London rival from winning the league, relegate another London rival, and save football. They've never had more incentive to turn up for a game in their entire history.

5:00Ryan Hunn: And yet, I think the first 20 minutes or so, Arsenal were as impressive as I've seen them for a while.

5:07Musa Okwonga: Right, exactly. Which is why I said all that, because a lot of people watching this performance might be like, oh, you know, Arsenal should... No, like West Ham optimised Nuno, optimised everything, I think, put out the best possible team he could. Even the subs available, the best available subs, I think he started the best line-up he could, I think he made the best adjustments he could and Arsenal was still superb in the opening stages. Myles Lewis-Skelly, the passes into feet for Myles Lewis-Skelly, these long raking... Yeah, Myles was good again. Ripping into feet, 15, 20 yards. and the Ben White injury completely destabled I think the Arsenal starting 11 it's a very fragile ecosystem in the sense of everything is in exactly the right place like the dynamics all the dynamics the combinations everything's set up so precisely and you know Arsenal I don't know what it is with the injury stuff but they cannot afford to keep losing I think

5:58Ryan Hunn: I think the Ben White one was just one of those it could happen to anyone at any time and it looks bad it looks bad don't get me wrong of course it can on a personal note for him though yeah this was someone who looked like he might have been going to the World Cup and I mean unless I haven't seen any updates yet but it looks like a bad one and he he looked straight away that he he knew it wasn't exactly chill but it completely changed the dynamic of the game yeah well I think I think it did I think also the substitution from Arteta changed it and I think it was a real wobble that he put right at half time yeah but I think some of the football Arsenal played was absolutely incredible in that first 20 minutes or so and it won't get credit because people will just probably complain about what happened after that and they should have been probably two definitely one up had it not been for some really really good West Ham defending some great blocks of some Mavropanos block that was amazing he was immense a couple of great saves as well and so both teams early on were deserve a lot of credit for different reasons I thought West Ham you could tell this was such a huge game for them and they defended really really well despite Arsenal playing some of the best football I've seen them play for a while and then yeah the the Arteta the the weird choice from Arteta to bring Zubamendi on move Reister right back following Ben White's injury and then correcting that at half time by bringing Mosca on and taking off Calafuri who Arteta said afterwards that he had an injury so I'm going to see I'd be interested to see what that's like whether it was an injury or whether it was a natural injury but still

7:34Musa Okwonga: I think it was I think it was bad because what he did by putting Rice Rice at right back took the dynamism away from the centre of the pitch it then meant that Arsenal were managing West Ham right they were managing the West Ham counter but they were also inviting pressure which was not good because West Ham the moment that happened you saw how good they were on the counter all of a sudden they were finding space everywhere and it felt like this kind of inevitable at the chance they got the brilliant save from David Riot with two elite saves. Elite. It's absolutely incredible. Just exceptional.

8:10Musa Okwonga: This is honestly, the performance he had, but back to West Ham for a second because Bowen immediately looked a thousand times more dangerous when Rice was not in a central area because he was like, oh great, I've got space I can play into. And Zubimeni looked a bit tired, was not fully sharp, was not on it. Saka as well looked a bit leggy. Saka never really got his rhythm. I would say.

8:32Ryan Hunn: Played a lot of football for someone who's been out for a while. You could see it. No, you could see

8:37Musa Okwonga: just looked a bit leggy. But Mavroponis as well, back to him, just his numbers, right? Two clearances off the line, three blocks, four header clearances, two interceptions, two ball recoveries, like just everywhere. This West Ham team, and it'll sound patronising because obviously he lost the game and it puts them more in relegation trouble, optimised everything. One Bissaka down that flank just was a clamp. And that was a key battle actually because as good as one Bissaka is, Calafiore was finding really so much joy. And when he was taken off, Miles Lewis Skelly, when he was put to left back, he chose the path of defensive responsibility.

9:19Musa Okwonga: And so he wasn't giving that thrust. Although he was appearing high up on the pitch, he wasn't surging. He wasn't making those runs and cuts. So his positioning was high, but it was quite static.

9:28Ryan Hunn: On Miles, I know we've praised Miles Lewis Skelly quite a lot in the last couple of weeks and I think deservedly so I think without kind of wanting to sound like some kind of like hmm well actually I even though it was less eye-catching I think this performance is probably the most impressive of the three that we've seen him come back in for recently the Fulham game he was in midfield it was a clear stable thing that he had to do he had Declan Rice there and he had quite a lot of experience around him you could say the athletic game because it was a champions league semi-final and he was completely unfazed he had to do quite a lot of and i know i talked about it in the athletic game where he had to kind of shift roles a little bit but within that midfield setup this was a really tricky game because there's a lot going on there's a lot of change there's a lot of shifting from an arsenal point of view and he had to then go from midfield to playing with someone in midfield that he's never played before to then going back to left back that he's not featured a huge amount in for a while another real real positive in a sense of like it's a quite a big job to do to me i can't

10:33Musa Okwonga: separate from it letty i can't separate from it letty i know what you mean in terms of the level of difficulty what west ham brought and also that stadium was loud that was loud honestly they you couldn't have asked i mean of course i mean some will say well look they didn't get a point out of it but in terms of what Somerville brought escaping pressure um and he was superb throughout I mean some of this some of his movement the thing I love about um Crescencio Somerville's

11:01Ryan Hunn: movement is it's so unorthodox like there's a thing that Doku Jeremy Doku used to do this thing

11:06Musa Okwonga: where he would put the full foot on the ball and drag it back it seems like he hasn't done that since he explained it on TikTok it's like he stopped dribbling since he said but um Somerville has this ability to go either way unpredictably off the dribble and you saw him do that like as West Ham were heating up they're attacking like him and Bowen are an absolute nightmare like that I reckon they're one of those attacks that comes up quite often among defenders in the Premier League going actually Somerville and Bowen are a nightmare like when they're in those central spaces so they really really brought it and you know Lewis Skelly had to watch all of that had to monitor it and I thought that to Arsenal's credit in this context this performance this is as tough I think this is one of the performances they'll talk about at the end of the season if I have to name I think a lot of people name this as their top 10 victories because West Ham really needed this and you saw them like grow in confidence throughout that save the late save from Raya and then obviously the disallowed goal let's talk about this before we move on because we should move I don't we

12:07Ryan Hunn: don't need to go too much longer on this horror show but I was loving it. Yeah, well, I'm glad one of us is. Right, let's talk about the decision that was felt all over the world.

12:22Musa Okwonga: Yeah, so Pablo puts his arm across Raya's neck. And holds his arm. Yeah, the ball comes eventually to Wilson, who smashes at home through a crowded box. And it was funny because at the time when it happens, I was like, oh, no. No, that's, that's, that's an equalizer. And then you see again, you're immediately like, oh, that's a foul. Like immediately that's a foul. Um, it was just so clearly obstructing everything, but weirdly enough, I just felt somehow it's like, oh, but yeah, I think it's a foul, but I also weirdly don't think they're going to give a foul because it felt like this is just stuff that happens in the penalty box.

13:03Musa Okwonga: Come on, it's rough and tumble. And I I just felt like that was the thing that was going to be given, not given, sorry. But yeah, a clear foul. Arsenal get out of there with a one nil victory and the substitute changes worked really well. I thought like Martin Odegaard came in and was crucial. Declan Rice again. And I've said like my player of the year, but also congratulations to Bruno Finanj for winning player of the year, because to win player of the year in a year like this just shows how brilliant Bruno Finanj has been. I voted for Rice because Rice has been doing it in all these tournaments and just shows up every single time including the decisive goal but yeah for me it was a clear foul and a bit south of West Ham in that sense

13:43Ryan Hunn: The timing is so key to this I think if it happens in the first 20 minutes no one's really talking about it today even if the same decision's made the context makes it feel like a bigger decision than it is I think he's actually been fouled twice I think Pablo's got his arm on him and his arm across his neck and he's also having his shirt pulled by Tadibo. So it's just a foul. And I think there are other fouls going on around the box as well, but because Raya's challenging from the ball, it's a real gut punch because when you have something like that, especially when you're fighting for survival like West Ham, I think it's going to heighten.

14:17Ryan Hunn: There's that sense of desperation. And it's the same from an Arsenal point of view, right? The Arsenal side of it is desperate for it to be ruled out. Yeah, look, I get the frustration, but I think it's a foul and I don't think it's really that deep.

14:29Musa Okwonga: to be honest. No, I agree.

14:31Ryan Hunn: And we rumble on to the last few games this season. Before we move on from Arsenal, we need to shout out Leandro Trossard, who, that was his first goal of the calendar year, which is wild. But he also

14:43Musa Okwonga: kind of always comes up clutch for Arsenal. Just as a value for money signing, I'm going to say something which Manchester United fans might consider sacrilegious. In terms of value for money, I think he's delivered alongside Ronnie Jonsson. but Manchester decided Ronnie Jonsson for like maybe a couple of million and what Jonsson delivered how much is it

15:04Ryan Hunn: in today's money

15:04Musa Okwonga: was always always there like Trossard just popping up with these moments of absolute brilliance at key points and just raising it like defensively good goal as well man it was a great goal it was a great like just the space that he found and like this thing that Martin Odegaard does so well just like finding his little pockets the Pauza they call it the Pauza Declan Rice burst into space as well as he'd done all game like he was instrumental in this he had I suppose a key pass they would call it but Trossard just defined the corner and I always kind of felt there was something I felt actually Arsenal would score but also in a game when you know we mentioned before like some of the attackers weren't fully feeling or were receiving great supervision from like Tadibo who had a fine game along with Mavroponis as well but he just Trossard time and again.

15:58Musa Okwonga: I think he now goes on the list of best all-time value for money signings. Not a video podcast but I'm doing the binoculars. Pedri does it as well.

16:10Ryan Hunn: I love that. Pedri.

16:13Musa Okwonga: Pedri who I love in all things. What a great human. But yeah, congratulations to Trossard on another fine intervention.

16:21Ryan Hunn: Let's segue on to Barcelona winning La Liga with a 2-0 win over Real Madrid in El Clasico on Sunday night at Camp Nou. Back-to-back league titles for Barca. Hansi Flick lost his father the night before. To go and follow up with a game of that magnitude while you're dealing with that, you could see before the game the emotion in him when they paid the tribute.

16:43Musa Okwonga: Before we get into the game, actually, just while I remember this, on this, because Hansi Flick's bereavement is relevant to something else, Elliot Anderson, quick shout-out for him, late equaliser for Forrest against his boyhood club Newcastle after his mum passes. Oh, that's so sad. So, I mean, like, bless him for all of that. Like, the journey he must have been in emotionally recently. And, like, what an amazing footballer. And Eddie Howes had a really lovely thing going, like, this was such a gut punch having to sell this guy because we loved him. Such a great player, like, homegrown player.

17:12Musa Okwonga: And we had to sell him because of the PSL requirements. And so, like, everything that... Bless him. He goes through on goal. He looks more like Tony... He looks more and more like an English Tony Crows with every, like, movement. Yeah. Goes through on goal, plays a one-two, and gets like, bless him, gets cramped up. So like, he's getting like, they're giving him like sort of, they're celebrating with him. One person's like holding his leg for the cramp. The other person's going, yeah, great goal, Elliot. So bless him. But yeah, on that, yeah, I would like to talk about the game, the Classico. Obviously it was 2-0 Barca, but it was 2-0 after 18 minutes.

17:44Musa Okwonga: And it looked like it was going to be an absolute shellicking at that point. And the football Barca were playing. The wild thing about this is that Marcus Rashford scores a banger against Courtois and it's arguably not even the goal of the game. As brilliant as the free kick, I think it still is the best goal, but like the Danny Olmo flick for Ferran Torres is second. But yeah, to reset. So talking about this game, I suppose it's all about the highlights of it. So the Marcus Rashford free kick, putting Barthes on the way to his first league title. Wild. As a professional, which is incredible. I mean, this free kick, let's just get into it.

18:20Musa Okwonga: so he's so good he didn't want to shoot then get this pedri and someone else i think pedri and danny olmo were like you have to have a crack which is amazing because what i love about that detail is the amount that they love and trust him if pedri is telling you to shoot you shoot no disrespect danny but i mean pedro is the guy pedri tells you to shoot you shoot and the free kick the thing i love at marcus rashford the thing i've said for many years is his ceiling like almost there's very few other footballers in world football that have the ceiling that he has like if you had to have a list of people that could beat Courtois from there with a free kick and could be considered as likely to do it it's a very short list it's a very short list and this is what I was saying in the chat in the discord actually like he is good enough Marcus Rashford his ceiling is so high that he could go on a late era a late career run like Dembele or Benzema he's that good and you know hansy flick said it he said in training this guy's finishing is so good that basically if he catches fire we're unstoppable and they all the way they celebrate with him the way they encourage him they know they're like this guy is basically he's like an f scott fitzgerald like he's got a classic novel in him this guy has got an all-time campaign we just have to coax yeah sorry sorry only because he wasn't like a volume you know he was yeah yeah you know those artists that don't put out a ton of material but when they do it's like

19:53Ryan Hunn: sorry it just reminded me of something I meant to say in the Arsenal bit which was which what do you think is going to get the most well actually style of debates this year is it going to be the VAR decision between West Ham and Arsenal or is it going to be the Odyssey? I think the Odyssey is about to be the most 10-minute VAR review style decision film discourse potentially of all time. Of all time. Of all time.

20:24Musa Okwonga: It's going to become, it's literally going to be like, well, Odyssey. It's going to change the world actually to Odyssey. Well, Odyssey. It's going to be, well, Odyssey, that's going to be the thing. Like if you're trying to like nerd check something, well, Odyssey, it's going to be that. Shout out to her.

20:38Ryan Hunn: did not know Odysseus was from Boston.

20:43Ryan Hunn: Absolute wild thing to learn. I was one of those, like I was today years old.

20:47Musa Okwonga: For anyone fortunate enough to be on Blue Sky in the era of Nikita Gill, brilliant poet, writer. If you, if you enjoy, if you want to know more about what Odysseus was really like, go and read what Nikita Gill said about him because I was howling with laughter. Look, as a huge fan of Homer's Odyssey, as a huge fan of Christopher Nolan, I had to accept all points were accurate. it there were no she told no lies nikita told no lies about how chaotic odysseus actually was like he's basically you know that you know the title race you know as frustrating as arsenal fans to fight this title race odysseus is comfortably 10 times as frustrating as arsenal have been in this title race like if odysseus was a footballer his entire career would be played on an existential he'd begin every single game on a yellow card and he would get he would begin every every game on a yellow card and he would spend the entire 90 minutes desperate to be sent off.

21:39Musa Okwonga: How many times has Odysseus quote unquote got away with one there? Yeah, to the point where the referee will be like, Odysseus, I can't send you off. I know you want this. I've never read it.

21:50Ryan Hunn: Never read it. I've just know. I've just heard this. This is all secondhand Odysseus knowledge.

21:55Musa Okwonga: But comfortably, I mean, if Odysseus was a footballer, it's a good question. Like, who would he be? I don't know. But who would be, here's the thing, who'd be in his crew? Definitely Pepe's in the crew. do you know which pepe as well you know the funny thing is you know which era of pepe do you remember when pepe the game was so chaotic that pepe was the voice of reason

22:14Ryan Hunn: i knew i knew at that point the game was gone we were fully in the post-woke era when pepe

22:19Musa Okwonga: started becoming the voice of reason that is how chaotic odysseus ship was that pepe was a sailor on it and was the voice of reason going everyone just needs to calm down odysseus ship with more

22:34Ryan Hunn: leaks in the Real Madrid dressing room.

22:41Ryan Hunn: How many more of these could you think we could keep doing?

22:52Musa Okwonga: Okay, we'll get to Madrid in a second. I wrote this in the Stadio Discord last week, but you know when

22:58Ryan Hunn: from the trailer when he's just like, I remember having a son and a wife and I was just like I remember there was an overturned penalty a contentious VAR decision

23:11Musa Okwonga: anyway anyway back to Barca before we get to Real Madrid shout out to the classics heads shout out to the classics heads shout out to the classical heads listen it was not necessarily a classic classico Barca playing some fantastic football the thing that gave me the greatest joy was watching Pedri and Gavi in the middle of the field again I loved this and I was saying you know the Barca bench Cassado Bernal Rafinha the quality that's there and not for the first time I think we've said this but the financial constraints under which Barcelona have operated have actually forced them to find some of their core identity again

23:45Ryan Hunn: they got a bit sensible again they did

23:47Musa Okwonga: they had to and look for football this year the joy I've had watching Barca Laminia Mal obviously on the bench loving it watching it and some fantastic drip by the way it must be said Laminia Mal

23:59Ryan Hunn: the pink stone iron jacket

24:00Musa Okwonga: three league titles.

24:04Ryan Hunn: La Liga has more La Liga titles than Cristiano Ronaldo, which is a wild sentence.

24:10Musa Okwonga: It's a wild sentence because in the era that Cristiano was there, Zidane was really trying to win it. He was really trying to win it because the thing I love about the three league titles for Pedri, for La Liga, is that Pedri's career has been beset quite a bit by injury. But his body of work, as time goes on, will reveal him as being the best midfielder this generation I think I love about the league rewarding consistency is the Champions League now it's such a crapshoot and this will sound like a bit of a dig at Real Madrid it's such a crapshoot that they've won it twice despite being in disarray for the latter part of that run we'll get to them in a bit just in terms of the report from the Athletics superb reporting by the way from the Athletics yet again on Real Madrid and what was going on in the dressing room it's absolutely wild spoiler it's a total mess but Barcelona how often have we said that teams need you know trophies to mark the era something to show for and the hansy flick era of barcelona if someone has said to him and hansy flick joined barcelona that his reign would be or his tenure would be um defining it wasn't a given not just come off just come off the germany job but people forget this and i like people when he came off the germany job and you know the amazon and the documentary and everything you know he'd lost a bit of aura and everyone's like this flick actually that good was he ever that good a lot of conversation but Hansi Flick has gone in with such a kind of care almost a tenderness in some cases and there's been a lot of conversation about the high line and the defending and everything else and I get that we're not here to really indicate all of that it's just that if someone can look at a highlight reel of the football Barcelona have played over the last three four years when he's been there it has been an absolute delight.

25:55Ryan Hunn: What I've really enjoyed about Hansi Flick as well though is the fact that he's listened to certain problems from Barcelona players or listened to certain concerns let's say that some of those players have had at various points throughout that time because there have been bumps. I can see him developing into like before our very eyes very much Barcelona's answer or version of Carlo Ancelotti to Real Madrid. Different managers, different personalities obviously but that same kind of aura, respect but knowing how to, I think he's really got a grasp and I think this is probably the thing that he got quite quickly of what not necessarily just the tactical side of it but what that club needs in terms of a manager and also someone who has the gravitas to command a little bit more because I think Barcelona, the hierarchy there would have looked at what he did at Bayern especially that treble and they want that you know this is a side who hasn't won the Champions League in 11 years it's the thing they want the most and I think this season that's probably the major blip on the season from Barcelona Can I give a compliment to Barcelona?

27:10Musa Okwonga: A compliment to Barcelona? Yeah. When they win the Champions League it is the accumulation of everything being in place. If you look at 0-9, 11 and 15 they won those Champions Leagues when all everything they'd taken care of the league the infrastructure like everything was aligned Real Madrid would win and it'd be like this ad hoc you know Roy of the Rovers adventuring yeah okay we screwed up the league but we won some knockouts Barca winning the Champions League if and when they win it again in the next 10 years will be as the result it'll be the culmination of a process right and I know they get a lot of knocks for like oh more than a club but actually I will say this whenever they've won the Champions League or the European Cup as it then was in 92 even that was the culmination of a philosophy and it was like building towards building towards and they can say that all four of those trophies came in that way but i do think that hansie flick is

28:02Ryan Hunn: trying to restore that no no i agree i agree you know if you look at some of them this is someone who managed robert levandoski at bayon and he's not been remotely bothered about being like actually i'm going to drop him he's not going to play as as as much of a role as a starter i think understandably at his age but also his desire to field La Masia graduates. What Barcelona have in Hansi Flick to me is the kind of statesperson in charge of like a Valverde or potentially even a Pep, like someone with that kind of gravitas, right? They need to be careful of not wasting that this time. They really messed around Luis Enrique I think Valverde was really disrespected and that was when the club just decided to descend into absolute chaos.

28:46Ryan Hunn: and Javi was mistreated as well I think was he the best manager in the world? No but I feel that he deserved more respect from the hierarchy

28:57Musa Okwonga: I tell you what this Barcelona feels different for several reasons the first is for all our talk about Barcelona's defence it's actually been really quite good in the league less than a goal a game conceded and not a settled line-up either a lot of turnover a back four shout out to the pastoral care of Hansi Flick and his coaching staff because Araujo took some time off for like mental health issues right so Kibarsi in and out Koundé coming in and out for Garcia Cancelo coming in and out there is a lot going on in that back four and yet extremely resilient and we've seen that Madrid, I mean Madrid have shown not the worst defence but I think failing at crucial points Madrid have shown how defensive turmoil when in terms of like injuries players coming and going can really affect you.

29:46Musa Okwonga: But Barcelona actually have maintained pretty good defensive consistency apart from key points. The youth of this Barcelona core, I think, is another thing that makes me feel those old mistakes won't be repeated because they're not just young, they love playing at Barca. Gavi is a veteran and he's 21. Gavi's 21. It's wild. He's played an absolute, like, he's played a universe of football and he's 21. Like, his experiences, and he's coming back now into a side that's quite fresh. And I said before, Casado and Bernal are there. Frenkie de Jong is there. So you've got this brilliant senior midfielder who I think, I think it's fair to say now, Frenkie de Jong, we were worried with him mid-career that he wouldn't hit some of the heights.

30:27Musa Okwonga: I think he's got another rung to go, Frenkie de Jong, but he's now on course. He's back on course from where he was when we first saw him at Ajax in terms of the figure that he can be. Olmo's in the mix and Ferran Torres and a half of him who I love, by the way. Ferran Torres in the attack. I love because gives you everything. And Furman Lopez. Furman Lopez is the guy that like, he's like the fourth musketeer. He won't get the hype. He'll never get the hype because Rafinha's there and Rashford's there and everyone else. But Furman Lopez is low key. He's like, what's that guy? Is it Joseph Gordon-Levitt?

31:03Musa Okwonga: Like he's very rarely the headliner on a movie, but if he's in it, the movie is always 20 % better just because of his presence. And I just think like what he's built at what Hansi Flick's built at Barca, it is the key thing for a Barca fan. It's sustainable. I don't see an end to this for the next three, four years. What do I mean by that? An end to it. I see them playing football that's exceptionally exciting and successful at league level for the next three, four years at the very least. And I think that can be a springboard in the Champions League, which again is a crapshoot. And it's key to say this, if Barca don't win the Champions League in the next five years, it is not a failure.

31:41it's just because

31:43Musa Okwonga: it's very hard to win it's very hard to win yeah it's really hard man shout out to Andrew Beasley fantastic writer in Liverpool who posted a video from 2018 of Liverpool just destroying like peak Man City in 2018 like you know Oxlade-Chamberlain just going absolutely ham that's the Champions League a couple of geniuses are going to run hot on you over two legs and then you get knocked out simple as that there's not a single there's not a single person in the world that will tell you right now that Real Madrid are a better football team than Man City and yet look what happened in the Champions League it's just it's funny you said that because during

32:19Ryan Hunn: the game last night I thought that this is probably one of the more under-talked about things of the season from the Champions League oh really yeah the Man City really shouldn't have gone out to Real Madrid no not and I know that and I know that we often say that in Europe sometimes it's kind of if you go out to Real Madrid you go out to Real Madrid right it's just a thing that people have just accepted. But in terms of the actual quality on show, and it's interesting with everything that's going on at Real Madrid, maybe we can, do you want to switch on to that a bit? We should give more props to Hansi Flick in a bit, I think.

32:52Musa Okwonga: Yes, yes.

32:53Ryan Hunn: You look at that side, and I know it's missing Valverde, it's missing Mbappe, it's missing a few other players as well. But the more notable ones recently, Valverde, because of this fight that happened in midweek, allegedly taking place, and him falling and hitting his head in a dressing room after training, going to hospital. He's out for two weeks because of that, apparently. Chumain is starting, though. Yeah. Which I thought was quite pointed.

33:22Musa Okwonga: Yes, although...

33:24Ryan Hunn: A lot of the reports coming out from that situation were saying that a lot of people said that Falverde has been acting like this all season.

33:31Musa Okwonga: Yeah, it very much was this... Yeah, very much... as the saying goes, try something and found out. Look, so on this game, look, Real Madrid, yes, you have to mention the absentees, but also a pretty bleak performance, an absolute mess. And I think Manchester City, funnily enough, I think this is one of those ones where they benefited from not having a bunch of ex-players being pundits because when they lost to Real Madrid, I think there would have been a lot more conversation if they'd had those pundits, ex-players pundits, talking about, like, did they play this shirt? did Manchester City play the aura of Madrid as opposed to what was actually there on the pitch before them because this game they look like an absolute an absolute mess shout out to Thibaut Courtois who was a class act on and off the field even to the point where after the game he's straight over to Hansi Flick to congratulate him and I thought he conducted himself so well I think this season he emerges with so much credit but Real because we've got to talk about them really the reporting about what was going on behind the scenes around Madrid Ryan it's even worse than I thought it was it's wild look Real Madrid have always had an element of chaos in that dressing room right they've had that period like in the 80s the 90s but this I mean when Nicolas Anelka got signed by Real Madrid there was talk that like other players wouldn't pass to him this is that was nothing compared to this like a fight that rages over 48 hours allegedly instigated by one player and the other player then responds and that altercation results in Valverde not being available for selection for a Classico.

35:13Ryan Hunn: Not the only fight or argument that emerged from that week or two as well. Yeah, yeah.

35:20Musa Okwonga: There was talk about the mood in the dressing disintegrating the season after the Champions League which we could all see with our own eyes. I was looking at this report and going half of this team needs to be sold or cleared out. Half of it has to go because not only have the feuds and the egos. Well, when I say half has to go, I mean in order for them to win the prizes they want to win, half has to go. Because something that's caught up to them very, very fast, this thing about, no, we can't be coached. Do you know who they remind me of? The Brooklyn Nets. Then the Brooklyn Nets assembled all those players.

35:50Musa Okwonga: They're like, no, we're going to coach ourselves. We've got James Harden, Kyrie Irving, and Kevin Durant. We're just going to coach ourselves because actually we don't need to coach anymore. And look how that worked out. They tried to coach themselves. And this idea that, yeah, we can just wing it. No, you can't. The thing about the Champions League is that it gets exponentially harder, right? And the thing is, they won those Champions League at a time when I think some of the teams they were beating were kind of reconfiguring and retooling and working themselves out. But now, the final stages of the Champions League are as solid as they've ever been.

36:21You look at those four semi-finalists, any of them that walked away with the trophy would

36:26Musa Okwonga: have been a worthy winner. If Atleti had gone through Arsenal and gone on to claim the title, you could have said the addition of Lukman, all the rest of it, the use of Llorente and this kind of roving centre mid, right midfield, right back role, this kind of amorphous Luis Enrique regeneration. You could argue that Atleti had the tools. They're so smart, the teams in the last four now, they're so well prepped. I don't think you wing it. I don't think this Madrid incarnation wings it to another title. You can't do that again. Actually, here's the thing. You have to be coached. You're not good enough.

36:59Musa Okwonga: The Madrid players I'm watching right now, and I'm not going to name names, watch them going, you are not good enough. You do not have the attacking tools. You do not have the defensive tools to do anything other than come in second place. You're just not good enough.

37:12Ryan Hunn: There's a lack of seniority there as well, right? And there's a problem that emerges at clubs like this and Real Madrid are probably the biggest example of that, I think at the moment where they're like a turbocharged Chelsea in terms of just a lack of authority where there needs to be authority. And when players consistently know that whatever happens, they can outlive the manager. It never ends well. What's interesting at the moment is that Real Madrid have always dined out in the last decade or so, maybe 15 years, since they won Le Decimo actually. They've dined out on the Champions League being the thing.

37:45Ryan Hunn: People go to Real Madrid to win Champions Leagues, to put in Ballon d 'Or runs. Trent literally said he wanted to win the Ballon d 'Or. And a lot of those Real Madrid moves, I think, to position people into a place where you can go on a Champions League run and therefore potentially go on a Ballon d 'Or run. What Real Madrid are in danger of, and I think the 2024 win against Dortmund has masked a lot more of what potentially has been going on there, is if you lose the Champions League aura, you lose a massive part of the club's identity and you lose a massive reason of why people move there. I mean, we talked about it numerous times.

38:23Ryan Hunn: The win against Arsenal last season, I think, spooked them. hard because if you look at where Arsenal were six years ago, five years ago, there was no universe that you could have seen Arsenal beating Real Madrid comprehensively over two legs. Not one. We were in the trenches of the Puma years. Yeah, yeah,

38:45Musa Okwonga: Oh my God.

38:48Ryan Hunn: Look what they made for Santi Cazola wear. The tightest, the tightest with the bag of here, the shorts. Yeah. And you could see it among, I think, you could see it amongst people like Bellingham. You could say it was like, we want to be serious. We want to be a serious football team. And I don't know who was on which side of the divide early on in the season. I think it's becoming clear. They were being turned into more of a serious football team. And not a lot of them actually wanted that. Not a lot of them liked that. And they're in a mess to a point where I've not seen them for a while. If Jose Mourinho is the answer, the guy who blew it up a decade ago.

39:24Ryan Hunn: Oh my God.

39:24Musa Okwonga: You know what? Thank you for saying this, right, because what concerned me so much about the reporting was, I thought until I saw this deep reporting, and it's amazing how much little you get if you're not inside the club. I thought Valverde was, look at me for a fool. I thought he was one of the voices of me, reason, moderation. Yeah. I thought that Mbappe actually was one of the people you can necessarily sort of build around. but the thing for me the refusal to do the Guard of Honor in the Spanish Super Cup that's when I thought no this guy actually needs to really step back and have a think in the off season about like direction conversations about being rude to members like training staff the fact that's getting out now that never got out with the dressing room before so that whole place just feels like an absolute roiding mess you've seen the TV series Chernobyl right of course you know when like you know when the court explodes yeah You know, when the core explodes and you look down into the core and just see that like boiling fire and it looks so angry.

40:26Musa Okwonga: That's what I feel like this dressing was like, it's just this kind of like unstable, exploded core. And it's a total, you know, that they've got to sell four or five huge players. And when I say huge players, I mean players that have won one or two Champions Leagues. Can I say this about Florentino Perez? Because I don't think this is getting enough analysis.

40:49Ryan Hunn: He wasn't there for the Classico.

40:51Musa Okwonga: The decision to bring in Jose Mourinho, after what's just happened with Prestiani and everything else and Vinicius, the decision to bring in the chief enabler of that whole mess to then take care of a team which includes Vinicius, which includes players who've spoken out about racism. This feels like, you know what it is? I'm just going to be straight about it. It puts everything else in a very bleak light. It's like, I will back you on anything as long as you're winning for me. And while, you know, Vinicius was surging, and I think, I don't think that Bandor campaign was, I think it was a bit of a catfish as a campaign, but anyway, but while Vinicius was winning, it was all good.

41:34Musa Okwonga: But now that things look like they're not going to go that way for a while, I will throw you under the bus because Mourinho is not being brought in, in my opinion, this is my conspiracy theory. He's not being brought in to restore Madrid to winning ways. He's being brought in to fall out with players so drastically that they get cleared out, that they basically want to leave. I think that's what's happening. There's no other way to look at it because this is a, you could not, if you asked footballers to name, a more antagonistic manager in the Real Madrid context, in that dressing room, Mourinho's name would be top 10.

42:04Musa Okwonga: After the Benfica affair, to bring him in directly afterwards, it's one of the most cynical acts of corporate relations of HR that I think I've seen in absolutely ages in football. It's disgraceful. And to be honest, it puts, it kind of puts the late era Perez tenure under a real cloud. Because you're bringing in somebody and not this, I've not heard a single person say, Mourinho coming in, oh my God, the expansive football they're going to play, restoring Madrid to their values. All I've heard it about is antagonistic. To be honest, it sounds like a threat. Okay, I'm going to bring in Jose to sort you lot out.

42:42Musa Okwonga: That is like, it's pretty damn grim actually.

42:45Ryan Hunn: Dude, it's just, it's really bad. It's really, really bad. And if you look at where Barcelona were in their chaotic period, and they're not fully out of that yet, I think they're still, the effects are still being felt by what was going on through that period. But in terms of what it looks like, what they focus on is just get that young core, build that identity. They've let those players emerge and it's no coincidence that you're reaping the benefits of that with players like Pedri in there who wasn't a La Masia graduate but very much feels like a Barcelona because he's joined so young. Him being captain, for example, until Frankie Dion came on last night in a Clasico where they win the league.

43:29Ryan Hunn: The first time they've ever done that in their history. The only other side that's ever done that was Real Madrid in, I think, Real Madrid's first league title, it said in the Athletic Peace, in the 30s where the rivalry between Real Madrid and Barcelona was nowhere near what it is now. Back-to-back league titles, they've won it comfortably this season with three games to go. They're kind of like that girl in front of the house on fire meme in a football sense. That's basically their energy at the moment because they've actually been sensible. They've got a sensible manager who responds to his players really well.

44:01Ryan Hunn: He said that thing, it was an amazing quote, where they draw up Ryo. And he says like, egos are the enemy of success or something like that. Shout out to Rayo, by the way. Rayo went to a European final. That's amazing.

44:13Musa Okwonga: Palace Rayo.

44:15Ryan Hunn: But yeah, anyway, I think that this to me feels like the most, and they're not quite fully there yet, but they feel like the closest to a Barca that I recognise for at least, I don't know, man. Probably the early Valverde.

44:33Musa Okwonga: Do you know what's funny? There's something else with Barca I want to say on this, because... this is the part, the part, if there is a path back for Real Madrid and there's always a path with a club with those resources, it's the humility actually. Like Barca really, they had to get humble. The one time they looked, I think, a bit closer to themselves apart from the Valverde years was that Barcelona authentic club, I think 2021, Copa del Rey, when you had Eli X in the mix, you had Pedri and Messi combining really well. Ronald Koeman,

45:02Ryan Hunn: was he wearing socks?

45:04Musa Okwonga: Sockless loafers, yeah. But yeah, but look, Barcelona humbled themselves and that's why they are where they are now, I believe. Whereas by contrast, Real Madrid remind me of what the joker said. He said, like, I'm like a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what I'd do if I actually caught one. And Madrid are basically the dog that caught the car. If you think of how much they've been baiting this moment for ages, starting with the Ballon d 'Or campaign, it started kind of there, I think.

45:29Ryan Hunn: That feels like the point for me because that was so weird.

45:33Musa Okwonga: So weird.

45:34Ryan Hunn: it all felt a bit kind of like I don't really get what the point of this is and no one came out of it looking good and it has been since then it's kind of been you know I mean just one quick thing on that it also makes you realise how much work Ancelotti was actually having to do to keep that all together you know

45:56Musa Okwonga: people there are listeners that will hate this comparison and call it pretentious nonsense but I've started so I'll finish this was actually that was actually their Brexit it. It was a campaign based on a series of assertions that collapsed immediately on contact with reality. And it broke that club's relationship with truth. It was a post-fact campaign. And it was a total disaster for them. It was a total disaster. They burned all the goodwill that they had. I mean, in boycotting a ceremony that was basically like one where you were beloved, you had the team of the year award and the coach of the award and you boycotted it like your own banquet it was it's one of the most bizarre things and all the goodwill they've been carefully assembling the Ancelotti era was just gone and I think this is the beginning of it because now what's that thing about be careful on your way up because on your way down you're going to meet all the people you screwed over on the way up and I think and look there's the Madrid they're going to be back because they've got the aura they've got the trophies but my goodness they've made it about five ten years harder for themselves than they should have

47:02Ryan Hunn: it's sad but there you go anyway let's round up this section on one final shout out for hansy flick who yes looks like he might sign an extension at barcelona he's already come out and said it'll probably be his last job i love that for him somewhere i can imagine him retiring in barcelona oh my god i'd love that and uh just really really happy for him is hansy flick going to end up beloved at Bayern and Barcelona.

47:28Musa Okwonga: Do you realise how hard that is?

47:30Ryan Hunn: Yeah, man. I think Hansi Flick just gets it.

47:33Musa Okwonga: He's the new Yacht-Pinkus. He's the new Yacht-Pinkus. Yeah, yeah. You bring someone in and just fixes everything, takes no credit, super humble, and you look at how the players surround him. I mean, I don't like to too much do all these comparisons like family and football, but it's like an uncle.

47:50Ryan Hunn: No, Pedri's come out on the record and said he's like having a father figure around as well as a manager. He's the ultimate, he's like Uniqlo dad. When you have that many young players come through, there's a responsibility there that you have to be aware of because it's a really tough environment to put very, very young people into. The really, really good managers, no matter if they're fighting for titles, they understand that duty of care. And I think he is one.

48:17Musa Okwonga: I want to end with this because I think something that's been so impressive, his handling of Lamin-Yemal this year, that has not been Laminio Mahler has had a very difficult season it has actually for a player of his quality you could argue it has not been a vintage season it's a season when he really struggled early on I felt like he was forcing I've said many times trying to adjust I think to this like full superstar status that is now on him some missteps off the field the way that Flick has navigated all of that has been absolutely masterful and it wouldn't have been like that we can't take for granted how hard that transition was for Yamal but also for Flick to handle as the coach and to allow that situation not to get out of control because I think with different coaches absolutely it would have absolutely it would have he would not have protected the player from the scrutiny or from himself and to see them come through it like this unified and stronger than ever and Barca fans might be nervous because whenever Barca feels stronger than ever, it's normally catastrophe around the corner.

49:27Musa Okwonga: But I don't think it's like that this time. I genuinely believe, and it's not a hot take to say this, we have not seen anything close to the ceiling of this Barcelona team. If you look at the players and what they're capable of, Ferran Torres has leapt on this year. If you think of the questions over him now and where he is now, exceptional. Dani Olmo has more to come. Marcus Rashford has another level to go to. Gavi's going to have hopefully a full season ahead of him. Pedri is just Pedri. He exists in his own universe. It's just, I don't know. It's nice to finish this segment on a happy note and it's nice to finish it knowing that like you're seeing someone at Hansi Flick is like, I think one of football's good souls.

50:10Musa Okwonga: He's a legend, man, as well. It's nice to be one of football's good souls actually prospering. That's not always been the case in recent years.

50:17Ryan Hunn: Yeah, I agree. Props to Barcelona. Yep, absolutely. And also, props to Venezia who beat Palermo 2-0 on Friday night to win Serie B amazing I was at the game it was kind of amazing because it was a pitch of an invasion the first time I've ever seen a crossbar being broken in real life which was great Kike Perez by the way he was the first one on the crossbar and he was having a great old time but yeah great result for them to secure not well to cap off not just promotion to Serie B but winning the league and then the great incredible run

50:54Musa Okwonga: can I say before we get into it they've only lost one game this calendar year wild one game like Moderna 2-0 that's it they've been on a run and the game before that was Inter that's they've been lights out they could argue they've been the form team in Italy just in terms of the quality and Frozanone were an incredible competitor and Monza as well shout out to them an incredible competitor for this title and looked like the front runners until venezia just went into like a sixth gear and just moved through the pack absolutely incredible but yeah you're saying it wasn't only being man's over five nil on friday

51:31Ryan Hunn: as well to at one point they were going to put the heat on the title yeah um but then saturday one of the more unique things in football the the parade through venice's grand canal flanked by boats full of fans the all the way through fans just lining all over the the the bridges everything one of the most kind of unbelievable things i've seen and i think this is tradition for venezia you know this is something they've done previous previously and it's it's a really really great tradition much like athletic clubs you know get on the barge when they win it's just amazing to experience that in person and so they come all the way up to the piazza san marco that's where this the presentation was and the stage and stuff like that and uh yeah really amazing I got shouts to Nick and the team at Venezia who we went to visit earlier in the season those fans

52:25Musa Okwonga: are incredible man the way they were just all the way through so after

52:30Ryan Hunn: the game they went all the way through Venice and then into the piazza and just let off fireworks it was a full blown firework display at like 1230 I don't know because it's really weird when you kind of see a city a place that's so unique and so globally renowned and it's also the Biennale going on at the moment as well. I think the opening week of the Biennale last week, so there's a lot more going on in Venice than when we went in December. Yeah, and then you have just this complete gridlock of the canal as the parade floats through. But it was just really, really cool seeing how fans were in their boats and they were interacting with the players and I took a load of photos that will probably go up and I put some videos up as well.

53:22Ryan Hunn: I'm going to put some stuff up this week similar to the Copa del Rey final in terms of that kind of vibe. But there was an amazing elderly couple, let's say, who were, he was wearing a full Furnessia kit.

53:33Musa Okwonga: Amazing, amazing.

53:35Ryan Hunn: And they were just paddling their boat down past us right at the end. And just a really good vibe, you know, loads of chants going all the way down. And you could tell as well that there were clearly loads of fans and tourists who knew what was going on, but loads of, I assume, tourists who didn't know what was going on necessarily and then were like, what the hell is, what is this? What have we stumbled upon here? And as you came out to, when the parade kind of ended, there were just a load of water taxis who had clearly been waiting to get down the Grand Canal. And just a lot of what looked like quite rich, pissed off people who were...

54:11Musa Okwonga: This is what I signed up for. We didn't pay for this, sign up for this. Can you imagine? Can you imagine? Can I just say, Can you imagine playing football for Venezia? The type of like dinner parties you get invited to.

54:22Ryan Hunn: No, I can't imagine that. I can't actually imagine it. No, I can't. I genuinely can't. I can't imagine.

54:27Musa Okwonga: What I love about Venezia's ascent and like having me able to witness just one game of it when I was there, how differently you see Venice through a football lens. It was not my first trip there, but I saw it in a completely new way. And not better or worse, but just like beautifully illuminated a bit like you know a bit like a stained glass window it was like that um and just even the kind of the pre-match ritual the walk up to the game and the dispersal people arriving on foot and leaving via water this is something well this is the only way

55:02Ryan Hunn: you can access it is by making your way without a vehicle or or by boat watching venezia at home is like a magic realist experience it is like magical like when i came away at the end like

55:13Musa Okwonga: taking pictures of the moonlight on the water yeah and like after football i'm also i mean they do i've got to say the football has been like artistic quality like if you look at that young core of the team busio dumbia stankovic brilliant young players who i hope they hang on to because there's gonna be a lot of interest especially some of the older members too those are players now that they'll be coveted even more across europe and on a lot of radars i hope they can keep that core together because the football they've played this is the thing they've really um they've entertained their way back into Serie A they haven't ground out results they've really like picked apart even in this game um the victory at the weekend they had to be really really patient actually and both the goals like lovely lovely finishes and the way they were built so they're going to grace Serie A uh I just hope they can do so with much of the much of the existing squad.

56:08Ryan Hunn: Yeah, I mean, it's a big season for them next year because they got relegated the season before last and they've yo-yoed a little bit recently. The goal this season was to get promoted. Next season will be key to solidify their position as a Serie A club because it's the final season, final full season at the Penso, the stadium that they're in at the moment, which is the second, it's worth remembering, it's the second oldest football stadium in use in Italy. And, it's hugely historic it's just wildly a wildly unique footballing experience and I would encourage anyone who's listening if they can to get to a game there next season because it's not a modern football stadium, the seats are tight and everyone's kind of like boxed in and it's not a huge capacity it's not got the kind of VIP stuff and all of the new things that in the modern reality for football, clubs need to expand to survive and to generate more income and to move into the next, you know, the next era.

57:12Ryan Hunn: And I think, for example, we've looked at some of the, you know, we've seen some of the, you know, you can look at some of the plans in the new stadium and I think it's going to be really, really good but it's going to be on the mainland. And so you will, you naturally are going to lose a bit of the, that magic that makes the trip to Vinetsia like so special and replace it with something else. You know, they want to, obviously, something that's I think most of the people do live on the mainland most fans so it's not you know it's going to be easier for a lot more people to access but yeah just in terms of I talked about it with Susanna Fuller on the episode of Kickback Committee I did a couple of weeks ago where just footballing experiences that are so unique to their environment and comparing very very different footballing experience but talking about the Vermont Green game and go into a game at Venezi because they're not interchangeable.

58:09Ryan Hunn: It's not going to just a brand new stadium that is like many other stadiums and it's in a big city or it's outside of a big city. Look at Paul West Ham.

58:17Musa Okwonga: Look at West Ham. Look how much their aura is shaped by environment and geography. And the London Stadium, the relationship they have with Upton Park, a symbiotic geography. What do they call it? It's a psycho geography about how, you know, your mentality and your personality develop based on the area that you're in. It's a huge thing, like, you know, place and location. I'm just, I'm really glad that we and you to a greater extent got to experience, you know, everything in its right place.

58:46Ryan Hunn: We will go to a game next season as well because we will probably do something else around it. But yeah, I would just say that if you are the kind of person who gets to be able to go to games or likes to go to games in Europe or travel for that stuff and you can do it next season, I would thoroughly recommend putting Venezia on... This isn't a... This isn't a blog. But like, just genuinely, because it is so... It is so unique. As a footballing experience, yeah. Yeah, and it's at the very end of... The very end of the island. So you have to make your way either around the island on the boat or go through the island.

59:27Ryan Hunn: And, you know, so you get to experience that real...

59:30Musa Okwonga: Oh no, oh no, having to cross Venice on foot. Oh no, oh no.

59:33Ryan Hunn: What a shame. Yeah, and I think also if you are looking to go to places like that, you know, this isn't, not working for the Venice tourist board or anything, but because so many low-cost airlines fly there, and outside, like last, because of the Biennale thing, like there are obviously peaks and troughs, but do you remember when we went in December, it was so reasonable for, you would imagine I always imagine I think when we went actually we were quite surprised at how how much we managed to do it for because if you are looking to go somewhere on a budget there are times when you can go to to Venice you'd think that it would be super super mega expensive and it's actually it's cheaper than getting a train to like Hamburg

1:00:14Musa Okwonga: can I say this can I say this actually I think if you're going to do it and look I think what we did we obviously caught the Venezia game and then caught the train over to Milan

1:00:23Ryan Hunn: which was also very reasonable

1:00:24Musa Okwonga: actually yeah well i would just say if you're looking to do it almost be a bit like adventurous maybe catch one game or even a couple yeah if you can yeah yeah also because i will say this and i i hesitate to say it but oh my god the food oh yeah yeah also reasonable another that yeah the food absolutely of course absolutely reasonable that is a podcast in itself

1:00:45Ryan Hunn: in itself but we that's for another time so yeah it's uh kind of amazing and yeah just the experience of seeing that like I think I talked about it when I went to the Copa del Rey final just it's there's something really special about being able to witness something that's so personal to those kind of like fans and that's such a unique thing for them that's like a custom and a tradition you know you know I think I talked about it in the Real Saucy that episode like seeing everyone the players and the staff and the fans come together to sing Churi Achiri when the Atleti half was empty and the noise I said like the noise that it made reverberating around the stadium is something I would genuinely never forget and likewise here like when the players and the fans were all singing something and you went under the Rialto that's something that's so specific you cannot get that anywhere else I don't know that sounds too wanky but it feels like such a privilege to be able to witness that do you know what I mean yeah of course yeah really amazing man really amazing I'm glad they got it I'm glad they there would have been celebrations anyway but I'm glad they got to the little cherry on top of promotion by sealing the title as well yeah of course but yeah man that's that's the Venezia trip oh man hyped for it alright everyone I think that will do us for today we hope you're all staying safe and well wherever you are and don't forget if you want to sign up for Stadio go to patreon.com forward slash Stadio you can sign up as a podcast member or a Stadio Social Club member if you want to listen to the Champions League podcasts from last week and you're not a member they're all up there there's an episode on Arsenal there's an episode on PSG you get every episode ad-free info and you help to support Stadio it's much appreciated don't forget to check the tickets for the live show reminder as well link in the description if you want to come and see us in London at the Southbank Centre in July and until Thursday don't forget to check the Stadio Watchers place on Spotify speaking of which we're going to play out on Angels of Venice by Le Allo anything you want to add Musa Gwanga?

1:02:53Ryan Hunn: Nothing further. Alright everyone, much love, have a great week, we'll be back with you on Thursday. See you then.

1:03:20Thank you.

1:03:51Thank you.

1:04:23Thank you.

1:04:50Thank you.