Chaos or control? Take aways from the Premier League weekend and more

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1:05Musa Okwonga: Hello and welcome back to the Stadio Podcast. I'm Misukwonga. I'm Ryan Hun. Ryan, how are you doing? Doing all right, thanks man. How are you? Good, I'm good. Not that keen on the change of seasons, but otherwise, otherwise well. Actually, can I say on a positive, on a more positive note, Bavaria was like Portugal this weekend. I was down there and I could have been in Lisbon. amazing town called starnberg i was very enthused about and someone said i watch out for jens layman and his chainsaw and i was like chainsaw and apparently the view of lake starnberg was so good that when jens layman's neighbor blocked the view with his with his apartment uh jens layman attacked attacked the offending part of the apartment with a chainsaw 135 000 euro fine i think i remember that yeah i mean so obviously look it's a hell of a view i'll say that much maybe not chainsaw worthy but a hell of a view but yeah gorgeous gorgeous part of Bavaria shout out to gorgeous countryside down there great people too good vibes

2:00Ryan Hunn: lovely yeah

2:02Musa Okwonga: did you go and watch any football while you were down there I did not it was Oktoberfest it was very hard to do anything other than gotta say Bavarian drip you should dust off your lederhosen I was tempted the Bavarian drip hit different but not always in a good way either I was a big fan I was a big fan

2:18Ryan Hunn: well we hope everyone else is staying safe and well wherever you are a couple of bits of admin don't forget London live show at the South Bank Centre tickets are on sale go to the link in the description and get tickets for our first show at the South Bank first of a like a quarterly run of shows that we're doing the first one is December the 4th we're very excited about that we might have a look and see if we can get a guest or two in but maybe like a secret yes yes we'll see we'll see but yeah check the link in the description and go and buy tickets for our first ever show at the Southbank Centre with the bits of admin.

2:54Ryan Hunn: We hit a thousand members on the Stadio Patreon. So thanks to everyone who's signed up already. Amazing to have you. If you want to sign up, go to patreon.com forward slash Stadio. You get full ad-free shows of every single show if you're a podcast member. And if you're a Stadio Social Club member, you get all the podcasts plus access to the Stadio Discord, all other kinds of perks. And coming up this week, we'll have a show about Liverpool on Wednesday. We're going to have a special guest joining us to talk about Liverpool. One of the very best guests, yes, esteemed. Yeah, if you want to come and sign up for Stadio on our membership, patreon.com forward slash Stadio.

3:31Ryan Hunn: And I think that's all the admin. So today we're going to touch on some Premier League stuff quickly. We'll do a roundup and then we'll touch on a couple of takeaways. I think especially from Manchester United, Chelsea and Arsenal, Manchester City. And we'll do a roundup of some other stuff after the Premier League. Is your cost of home insurance increasing? Get a quote online today with Arizona Home Insurance Company at ArizonaHomeInsurance.com. Arizona Home Insurance Company is a direct local home insurance company, is A-rated by AM Best, and has an over 90 % customer satisfaction reported. We are Arizona-based since 1990 and part of the Regional Western Mutual Insurance Group, which has been insuring homes for over 80 years.

4:14Ryan Hunn: That's ArizonaHomeInsurance.com. Direct. Reliable. Affordable. Do you keep hearing podcast ads? like this one, for example, but always wonder how you actually get involved with them for your own brand or organization? Well, it's easier than you think. We're Acast, and we give you the platform to do it all yourself. Browse thousands of popular podcasts, choose the shows that match your perfect audience,

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4:55Ryan Hunn: Let's start with the Merseyside derby. Liverpool 2, Everton 1. Not as comfortable as Liverpool would have ideally liked this to be. And also a derby. A derby.

5:04Musa Okwonga: Against an Everton team in form. So just on balance, just a really good result, I think. But the key to this was the fast start. Gravenberg. Huge fan. Listen. What a goal. Definitely a Gravenberg fan account. And I have a slight bitterness that Gravenberg and Pedri are now being appreciated because they're on the score sheet, whereas they've been doing incredible work for like 18 months now. But Gravenberg, tremendous really, again. And I love this finish, this like almost forehand slice, I think we can call it. It's amazing. Beautiful touch, yeah. And they're doubling the lead, Liverpool. Grealish, instrumental in the build-up for Everton's goal they pulled back.

5:42Musa Okwonga: Also a great goal. Yeah, Gay ripping it into the corner. Just some, yeah, some really nice football, actually. And again, look, not the easiest procession for Liverpool, but they haven't had necessarily the easiest opening to the season in terms of the games. They had some difficult, yeah, some interesting match-ups like Newcastle, St. James' Park, rowdy as hell, a derby early on. I think it's a good, well, they've won five straight. And you wouldn't necessarily know that from, I think, some of the lack of fluidity in the play. it hasn't been the most I think it's been quite stop start for them in passages certain games I think they haven't necessarily controlled games but they've managed to find a way to punch through and get crucial results so yeah strong start to the season despite things not necessarily clicking but then again look a lot of new arrivals so it'll take a time to gel but yeah a good derby win We'll talk more about

6:37Ryan Hunn: Liverpool on Wednesday but yeah good derby win so you can kind of especially that that lunchtime Darby on a lunchtime kickoff never great exactly especially post Champions League yeah yeah who knows who knows who knows

6:48Musa Okwonga: what Klopp was thinking in his dressing gown muttering away yeah

6:52Ryan Hunn: just quick shout outs for some other results late Spurs equaliser thanks to Van Hecker own goal against Brighton 2-all at the Amex Burnley with a great point against Forest going 1-0 down very early on not a great start for Ange no really not speaking of not great starts another defeat for West Ham at home. This time to Palace. Could have been more. I think 2-1 was quite generous actually. Glasner coaching the lights out.

7:22Musa Okwonga: What's new there?

7:24Ryan Hunn: What's new there? I have a feeling we might have to talk more about West Ham in the next week or two so we might park that. Yeah. Leeds with an amazing win away at Wolves. Calvert-Lewin's first goal for Leeds.

7:36Musa Okwonga: Listen, never selling my Calvert-Lewin stocks.

7:39Ryan Hunn: Never, never. But I actually thought Wolves, it's funny, I think second half Wolves were pretty good, but by that time they were already 3-1 down, basically. So I do worry about this, because didn't Pereira sign a new deal last week that apparently had been agreed in the summer, but it just looks really bad when they've lost every game so far this season? Your manager signs a new deal. It's a bit like, oof.

8:01Musa Okwonga: Yeah. I mean, by contrast, Leeds with a useful start. Bounce back really well. Look, credit to Leeds, because talk about bouncing back from the Arsenal defeat and coming back really, really strong. Since then, 1-2, drawn one, lost one. Really, really good. Really good resilience there. Decent side down. I think teams like Wolves, they'll struggle to get back above water because those teams that have come up are really quite resilient, actually, particularly like, you know, sort of Sunderland in particular, Sunderland and Leeds.

8:30Ryan Hunn: Yeah, I mean, the sides were in the bottom three.

8:32Musa Okwonga: None of them came up. Right. And you look at, I mean, Villa in particular, Villa who've fallen the furthest. And look, they're going to get sick of us mentioning the sliding doors moment of last year and the Champions League stuff. But I don't know if I've seen a team that has so quickly lost confidence. What I will say in Villa's defence, a point at Sunderland is a good result. Like if you're trying to turn around a slump in form. Down to 10 though, is that a good result? I don't think it's a bad one. I think if you get out, look, I think anytime you get a point, I think any point you get at the Stadium of Light this year is going to age well, actually.

9:03Musa Okwonga: I just think it's a good place to...

9:05Ryan Hunn: I mean, they're off to a great start, Sunderland. Exactly.

9:07Musa Okwonga: I just think if you're going to panic about Villa's prospects, this isn't the game to do it in. But yeah, great, great for Sunderland. They're up in seventh and looking strong, looking resilient.

9:18Ryan Hunn: Shouts to Fulham, 3-1 over Brentford in the late game on Saturday. 0-0 on Sunday between Bournemouth and Newcastle. I don't think that's a bad point for either, really. I think it wasn't a great game. To be honest, there weren't a lot of unbelievable games in the Premier League this weekend. There were not, no, no, no. But let's talk about one that was an unbelievable game. Manchester United, Chelsea.

9:40Musa Okwonga: Great game is strong. It was unbelievable. Great game is strong. It's unbelievable. It was an unbelievable game.

9:44Ryan Hunn: Speaking very much like someone who had an invested interest in the game. As a neutral, I think I said in the Stadio Discord, which I'm under obligation, thanks to someone mentioning it, that I have to say it was popping off this weekend. The Stadio Discord. Sign up as a Stadio Social Club member on patreon.com. if you want to join in with the popping off Discord. I was just glad that the team that I support wasn't involved in a game like this because it looked... I think I said in the Discord actually that it's rare that you see a game that entertaining where literally every player on the pitch is having a dribble time.

10:20Ryan Hunn: But as the Manchester United fan, where are we on the it's over, we're so back scale?

10:29Musa Okwonga: I think it's the only game I've ever seen where rain stopped play and the game continued for 90 minutes. The conditions made it difficult to assess, quite honestly, what was happening. But I will look, United, credit to them for starting with intensity. I've got to say the stand-up player for me was Zumbumo, not because he was the best player in the picture, but because he was the one player who never looked despondent at any point. I think he's the one. The thing I love about this guy is his character, and they talk about him and Bruno, actually, in terms of the emotional core of this team. I think he very much occupies that place.

10:58Musa Okwonga: and I think he's the one player for United who consistently made I would say the best available decision in the conditions where everyone else is basically just aquaplaning. I'm concerned about Seshko who went off at half-time and I feel like this is a player we've signed him without a plan.

11:16Ryan Hunn: Yeah, I mean we can talk about him if you want because I think it's an interesting theme of this season for Manchester United but I don't know if you want to talk about Manchester United win with a potential negative. I think we should probably talk about the positive.

11:26Musa Okwonga: Yeah, so we'll start with the positives. The first thing is like United claiming a deserved win from two of their, let's say, veterans. I mean, Casemiro, he's a veteran player, he's not a United veteran, but he is a veteran player. So that's the headline really. And it was a deserved red for Sanchez. And I suppose it was strange because actually United were managing the conditions very well and they were managing the extra man very well in terms of having the extra man. They were spreading them. And then the Casemiro red was bizarre, I thought. I thought it was a bad decision and I thought it actually ruined the game Bad decision from the referee Yeah and I think the thing about the game the sad thing I think it saddened me because even though the conditions were terrible Manchester United are playing the kind of football which if things have been kept as they were maybe they get a third and the conversation is a much more positive one whereas I think taking it down to 10mph both sides you saw the spectacle change the players are struggling in those conditions I suppose there's maybe some credit to be given from the fact that like they got the game over without injuries but yeah as a spectacle it was it was a lot of fun there's a lot of banter about it but

12:32Ryan Hunn: oh there's so much banter i mean um the thing about the casemiro yellow is that it's you just can't make that tackle when you're on a yellow because it's only ever a yellow when you're already on a yellow interesting okay yeah you know it's too it's not cynical enough or deliberate enough it's a duel they're jostling a bit and then he kind of eventually pulls them back it's one of those that having having already sent someone off i think referees are just way more inclined to level it up if there's an opportunity there this is very easy like from a referee point of view this very much is in the why you're giving the referee a choice section yeah no totally yeah totally totally i personally don't think it was a yellow i can understand why the referee has been inclined to give it i think it's really really silly from casemiro especially that close to half time to even remotely get involved in something like that that close to half time there's just no point no

13:22Musa Okwonga: and look and actually on Chelsea as well I think Amorim managed the conditions really well but I don't think I don't think Chelsea helped themselves with the Maresca substitutions after the red card

13:33Ryan Hunn: I don't think Maresca handled this game well

13:35Musa Okwonga: I think he handled it badly I mean bizarre really to withdraw as you mentioned Pedro Neto who is one of the best on the counter-attack for this team and just he's an absolute lock the thing about his play I'm biased towards him because I think he's I think he's an amazing footballer because the thing I love about Pedronetto, you talked about this in the chat actually, about how it's very difficult to get a seven out of 10 player every single week. And Pedronetto for me is, you know, it's just seven and a half every week at least in terms of defensive consistency, efficiency on the counter, and just the player you want breaking all the time.

14:09Musa Okwonga: He's so smart. He can run a counter by himself. He can finish, he can assist, all the rest of it. And to see him drawn off after like, what, six, seven minutes, to me was odd and then it's compounded by the Palmer injury which you know you can't account for that but it basically meant that Chelsea were there for the taking you didn't see the outlet was Gerard Pedro is a fine player but couldn't do himself and so really United had their pick of it and with some better I mean I think the one concern for United I would say was this was an opportunity for Seshko to really maybe get on the score sheet or get involved and you know he got withdrawn after the Casemiro red when i actually think a player like maybe amad could have gone off he wasn't having the best game actually and never really found his groove to be honest uh in the 90 minutes there were a couple of decisions where i felt given his quality he can do better whether it's an assist or or getting a shot off or scoring i i felt like this was a game where i was hoping seshko could really get his reps and get into his his flow yeah i mean especially because of

15:12Ryan Hunn: the conditions right and you felt that some someone with that physicality could have had a real advantage with those kind of conditions. I feel like it's... I think that's... From Manchester United's point of view, I mean, backing up a little bit with the substitutions from Mureska, I feel that the only thing I felt about that was, look, I get people saying, look, he switched to a back three. But I don't think he necessarily needed to add an extra substitution in to do that because you only really want... Because you needed to counter-attack, right? And I think there were players in there that, for example, he could have potentially just moved Rhys James inside, moved Kaiseido into like a right back just in defence, right?

15:47Ryan Hunn: Because then I think Casado's ball carrying in transition and leaving someone like Neto on the pitch would have been really good for a break. Not only that, I think it then affected all of the substitutions that Maresca had to make afterwards. It just massively limited his options, I thought. From Ruben Ambrim's point of view, he would have looked at those substitutions and been like, sweet. Because you've already taken off Esteval and you're taking off Neto. you've got no real outlet yeah yeah yeah yeah like because it was so it was so clearly not a game where you're going to have to like pass your way around it it was going to be scrappy it was going to be breaks it was going to be a little bit of luck and you know if you're if you have someone like pedro netto who you who can just like run in behind defenses totally and in conditions like that someone slips someone makes a mistimed tackle i think it would have benefited chelsea way better and also finally that when the game does get leveled up in terms of players on the pitch.

16:44Ryan Hunn: Again, they can't really capitalise on that from a substitution point of view because they've already made too many

16:48Musa Okwonga: in a stability sense. Well, not a great day at the office for him. Much better for Amirim who's had, of course, rumbling questions about him. I'm content but then again I'm biased. On another game because there wasn't... Was that it from Manchester United?

17:02Ryan Hunn: Are we not on the we're back thing? We're not back. It's a good win. We're not so back. Were you 11 points for Manchester City? We're not back though. It's a good win. It's a good win. It's narrative, isn't it? maybe people expect more from Manchester United

17:15Musa Okwonga: well do they? not this year they don't anyway look Arsenal Manchester City the highest profile game of the match day calendar Arsenal won Manchester City won and dare I say it a good result for both teams a good result for both teams and in the context of where this game was going 10 minutes from the end I think a very good result for Arsenal in terms of getting that draw back. City, interesting, quite resilient actually after they took the lead. Not necessarily venturing a huge amount, but I think knowing that coming to the Emirates and trying to boss a game against an Arsenal team this resilient, that doesn't concede much in open play.

18:00Musa Okwonga: First concession open play this year. Great goal from Erling Haaland. And I think this is an interesting case of Arsenal being a home side against a very well-disciplined City side who they couldn't really overwhelm. There's some real quality in that Arsenal squad, as we know, and in that Arsenal team. And against most other teams in the Premier League, they turned them over. But City, impressively resilient. And I've got to give a shout-out to someone like Khusanov, who went off at half-time. I don't know if it was an injury or something, but really had a very good first half against quite an enterprising Trossard.

18:36Musa Okwonga: and I thought City managed the game well. I think for Arsenal this season, it's going to be a question of small margins and how they manage the small margins. And it's going to come down to like, I think 15 minute periods of games like this where it's a question of can they press home the advantage? But overall, I mean, it's not, I don't think the game has great rewatchable quality, but I think fundamentally a good, I think it's a good result for both teams. How did you feel about it?

19:03Ryan Hunn: I found it more interesting from a Manchester City point of view than an Arsenal point of view because I think that this was a real eye-opener for Manchester City it's clear that Pep's been trying to figure something out this season because he doesn't have the personnel to play how Manchester City his old Bayern team or his Barcelona team have played and I know that all three of those sides have played in various ways through various iterations but this was I think the clearest indicator of where we are with what Pep Guardiola thinks about this Manchester City side in that I don't think I've seen them commit to absorbing and containment to a level like that.

19:39Ryan Hunn: I can't remember a Pep Guardiola side doing it to that degree, to the point where apparently it was the lowest possession that a Pep Guardiola side has ever had in his managerial career, 33 and a bit percent, I think, or 32 point something percent. This made me understand the Donnarumma signing a little more. Because if they're leaning into this style, which I think they did really well at, by the way, but I don't need to sit here and criticise how Pep Guardiola is going to line up against a title challenger away from home because I think that he knew that if he'd committed to being a little bit more expansive and tried to play Arsenal off the pitch I think Man City get torched bear in mind Man City committed to a 5-4-1 and ended up taking off Erling Haaland and putting Jeremy Docker as the centre forward playing the deepest block that I've ever seen a Pep Guardiola side play and Arsenal score from getting him behind now from an Arsenal side of that so many people will be focused on this conservative quote unquote thing from Arteta I think from Arteta's approach to this I completely get the game plan for the 90 minutes as a whole and it works if they bar one break a lot of things have to go that way for Haaland to be the one that gets that and scores Miguel Delaney wrote something really interesting about how a lot of teams have clocks at Man City start to get tired under this new way of playing after about an hour or so so it's about hanging in there or kind of wearing them down to then introduce players.

21:04Ryan Hunn: We were talking about closers and stuff the other day and we talked about it with Lotto and we talked about it in terms of Arsenal's game against Athletic. I think Mourinho and Trossard are really good at wearing opposition out. And I think that bringing Martinelli in when they did is perfect. I think that's the kind of bringing Eze in for the second half. It's a real shame Maduecki had to go off with an injury because I thought he was probably Arsenal's best player in the first half and looked really, really good again. But you then bring Saka around. Do I wish that Arteta was a little less conservative sometimes in games like this yeah because i feel like arsenal now have the personnel to be able to to be able to afford to do that am i angry or frustrated with the way that he set up and then made the changes and what the game plan was for this game absolutely not because i

21:50Musa Okwonga: actually think it was pretty good it was i feel like i felt like it was one tweak away from being again, small margins. This is why I'm hesitant to be that critical. I wonder about the fitness of Saka and, well, I wonder about the fitness of Saka in particular, because I felt like in those situations, like for example, this is me, just my thought process on this. When City had that thing where City were just grinding out results, and some weeks City weren't even at their very best, but they're still grinding out results. The reason this discourse happens, and the reason we're having this conversation at all about who plays where, is because I think people already understand that this Liverpool team has a certain ability to grind out results and the small margins matter like again like my first thing my headline on this is it's a good result for Arsenal I was delighted for Martinelli um I think against you're up against one of the best tactical minds in football who is shuffling the pack who is missing Ryan Cherky who only has two wingers that he really trusts at this point like Dokku and and Silva so in that context actually.

22:53Musa Okwonga: Look, this is not a disastrous outcome. I think a defeat would have been a nightmare, actually. I think it would have been really, really bad because just the conversation and all the rest of it. It's only a point. It's only a point, but just the context of everything. I think City have adapted well to the loss of Ryan Cherky. I think that's such a big, big thing for them. And I think the failure of some of their wingers to kick on. O 'Reilly was fantastic at fullback. I thought he was excellent. So I think there's lots for City fans to look at and feel encouraged by?

23:23Ryan Hunn: I think that's the most encouraging City performance from the season because it's completely like, okay, if we're not going to pass teams off the park now, we're in a different position than what we were three or four years ago where actually Arsenal and Liverpool are probably technically way out on their own and we can't match them for that. I don't think Manchester City are going to get hit with the how can you go to the Emirates and play like that stuff.

23:46Musa Okwonga: And nor should they. Especially when they were so open last year.

23:48Ryan Hunn: They lost 5-1 at the Emirates last season.

23:50Musa Okwonga: They got cooked last year, City. Like you look at the Champions League and all the rest of it, they got absolutely cooked. And he looked at those results and he studied the shortfall and a lot of that play. So he's thought about all of that. And he's like, whatever happens to us this year, it's not going to be that. And look, fair enough. I mean, I know I compared them to Atleti in Jess, but it kind of is the setup. And there's no shame in that. I know Rodri as well, having played for Atleti. And it's like, oh, I've seen this before. But yeah, I just think the one thing I would say with a for this to reach its final form I think I mean Doku has already taken off if City can get another one of those wingers flying and also Cherky to come back the one thing I would say with this team was I would have liked to see Foden play a little bit closer to Haaland I just think if we're going to play with this 4-1-4-1 with the wingers high and disciplined well not in the discipline but on the Silva's case but if we're going to play with two wingers

24:47Ryan Hunn: I think he would like to stay on the face to buy I agree

24:48Musa Okwonga: I agree I would like to see Foden slightly closer to Haaland, just my own personal preference, because this reminds me a bit, I've compared him to Erling Haaland to Christian Vieri in the past. And I feel like Foden's not Del Piero, who is, but I think as a 10, as a more conventional 10, I think there's a bit more joy to be had there. But I'm sure, look, I'm sure Pippa's figuring out these details. And I think that's actually what Cherokee's meant to be. I think Cherokee is meant to be a conventional 10 in that sense. But yeah, time will tell.

25:19Ryan Hunn: yeah man I don't think many people should draw massive conclusions from this result from an Arsenal point of view to be honest in terms of I don't know maybe what it means for the title race as a whole because they've done really well in these fixtures over the last few years and it's been their form in the games that they feel like they should win that has really made the difference so yeah we'll wait and see they have the Newcastle game and then they have a slightly less hectic run if you look at the amount of points based on the fixtures and the two away trips that they've had you'd be fairly close to 10 points I think but yeah talking of Manchester City let's quickly go to the WSL because Manchester City beat Spurs 5-1 on Friday night and Grace Clinton scoring on her debut for Manchester City yes London City Lionesses got their first win of the season they beat Everton 2-1 at Goodison Manchester United 0, Arsenal 0 in not a classic Chelsea beating Leicester 1-0 Brighton beating West Ham 4-1 and Aston Villa's game against Liverpool was postponed because of the news the terrible news that former Liverpool boss Matt Beard had passed away on the weekend aged just 47 he won back-to-back WSL titles with Liverpool in his first stint and got them promoted back into the WSL in his second stint a very very popular figure in women's football and yeah sending love and condolences out to his friends family and all the women's football community who knew him yeah really really sad

26:53Musa Okwonga: it's a deep grief for the Liverpool family so young as well 47 you can tell by not just the range of the well not just the spontaneous nature of the tributes but the range of them it felt like everyone had a different story about him so yeah just terrible news and all thoughts with his his family and loved ones

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28:22Ryan Hunn: Should we get back to some football? I think we should probably go to the Bundesliga. I think there's only one place to start in the Bundesliga, actually.

28:33Musa Okwonga: I was there was there was look okay Eintracht Frankfurt three Unian Berlin four Eintracht look in their in their defence big rotations after the Champions League yeah which they had to but Unian to their credit I mean needed this result and got it because you know slightly wobbly start to the season but strong strong outcome for them they actually were 4-1 up at one point Chanazun making it respectable adding to his burgeoning reputation you know Eintracht every year have like a breakout player and it's definitely him this year yeah just just a lot of fun

29:09Ryan Hunn: this is a really really important win for Union because they'd only they were on three points for this apparently it was the worst start to a top flight season also Oliver Burke became the first Scottish player to score a Bundesliga hat-trick well technically not a hat-trick drier pack because it wasn't in a row in the same half but it was in a row but not in a row in the same half, unfortunately. So not technically. That's wild. You think he's been like

29:37Musa Okwonga: Alan McAnally and all that. That's like a big, that's a.

29:41Ryan Hunn: Yeah. But I mean, Oliver Burke with, very much in the class of, the current class of Walcott's Law candidates. 28 years old now.

29:51Musa Okwonga: Who are suddenly, these players who are like these prodigies who are suddenly like old. Although, I don't know what the reverse of that is, but Harry Kane is still only 32. People talk about Harry Kane as if he's like 38.

30:02Ryan Hunn: I know. but yeah wild game of football and Stefan Baumgart got sent off and I think a little a little bit harshly he was I mean he was he was acting up a little bit but I don't think it was that that bad also Eintracht got awarded a wild penalty in this game Jonathan Burkhart gets he's so he's got his back to goal and there's like arms around him but he does this thing where he feels the arms around him and he basically just like jumps in the air and pulls his knees up and like barrel rolls and goes down as if he's been picked up and the ref completely bought it like completely bought it and i i thought it was like there was i just thought i'm not i'm not i'm laughing at the situation no no no it was ridiculous like it was ridiculous because it was one of those as well like on the replay when they slowed it down the actual like action it was on a loop right so it looks a little bit like it like he's completely sold it it was a wild man i I mean, fair play to him.

30:58Ryan Hunn: He then scored the penalty, but like, it was just so silly. It was so silly, man.

31:04Musa Okwonga: I don't know how I feel about the level of deception. Do you think the goal, do you think the referee sometimes feels they have to because they've gone to so much effort?

31:10Ryan Hunn: Yeah, I thought it was, because I saw it and they were on commentary, they were kind of laughing a little bit about it and they were just like, based on what the ref said when he announced the decision, it didn't really line up. But at least Union escaped because I think if that had been the difference between them winning the game or not.

31:24Musa Okwonga: Right, particularly in the context of their season so far.

31:27Ryan Hunn: Also, just a shout out to Elias Anser, who scored the first and another great goal for him. Yeah. Well, speaking of Union, actually, shout out to the Frauen, who got their first Frauen Bundesliga win on the weekend. They won 2-0 against Essen. Four teams are currently level on points at the top of the Frauen Bundesliga. Thanks for Parkwood draw.

31:44Musa Okwonga: Yeah. Who? Bayern Frauen against Jena.

31:47Ryan Hunn: Yeah, not amazing for Bayern, but also pick points. I think that the strength of teams that have come up this season, I think is far greater than it has before. And it's also the first year that more teams came up. So yeah, I think this Fraun-Bundesliga is going to look a lot different to seasons in the past. Yeah, very much so. Yeah, four points currently, 11 points at the top. Freiburg lead on goal difference and they go to Bayern tomorrow. Elsewhere in the Bundesliga, very quickly, Harry Kane. Just another hat trick. As Bayern beat Hoffenheim 4-1 at home. Hausfrau got their first win of the season.

32:18Ryan Hunn: They beat Heidenheim. They escaped a late scare by beating Heidenheim 2-1. Mainz beating Augsburg 4-1 away. Freiburg beating Werder Bremen 3-0 away on Saturday and RB Leipzig beating Curl 3-1 on the Saturday night game. Great win for RB Leipzig. Yeah. Dortmund beating Wolfsburg in not an amazing game.

32:40Musa Okwonga: But bangers only at Eimi.

32:42Ryan Hunn: Great goal. Yeah. Another one. Leverkusen drew 1-0 with Gladbach. That's a great point for Gladbach.

32:48Musa Okwonga: It is. It is. It is a bad result for Leverkusen in the context of it all. But actually, well, no, let me be more charitable. Hulmand with a good start actually and Leverkusen look good I think this is more credit to Gladbach for showing some late resilience rather than poor play by Leverkusen who I don't know they've got a coach who they seem to play well under they look good for large stretches of this so yeah credit to them

33:11Ryan Hunn: Quick shout out to Stuttgart beat St. Pauli 2-0 on Friday very good indeed I thought quite disappointing for St. Pauli yeah good result for Stuttgart they kind of needed it they've been a bit wobbly two wins two defeats in the Bundesliga but yeah Where else do you want to go? Where next?

33:27Musa Okwonga: Oh, I would say quickly jump across to La Liga. Let's go for it. Yeah. So what are the headlines there? I mean, Real Madrid staying top. 2-0 win. Kylian Mbappe looked great again. Littau with a banger from distance. Barcelona 3-0 over Guatafé. Ferran Torres with a couple of lovely goals. Beautiful assist. Backhill assist. Donneilmo for one of them. Other news. Athletic Club losing 2-0 to Valencia. Bad loss for them. a bad defeat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Girona succumbing in very chaotic fashion to Levante. This is the gnarliest result of the weekend I think. Oh, yikes. Some of the challenges in this match.

34:08Musa Okwonga: If Girona take anything positive from this, it's they only lost 4-0 I would say because I mean down two players and the second red was that was a bad foul. Really bad thought that one. Levante's first win I think that was. Yep. Real Betis strong win 3-1 over Real Sociedad that is definitely

34:26Ryan Hunn: hey shouts to Hector Bellerin assist for Pablo for and else that is the food

34:31Musa Okwonga: derby for sure elsewhere in La Liga Atleti stuttering start won all against Mallorca down to 10 took the lead though Mallorca pulled one back and Atleti just struggling for identity when a team that grinds out results and you're not grinding anymore and again we said this so many times Atleti like the depth of attacking talent and they can't make it click. And we keep saying like, is this the year that it costs them? I am actually beginning to wonder that now because I look at that side and what they produce and the sum is now so much less. The sum of the parts is so much less.

35:06Ryan Hunn: I'm actually a little bit like, this year, I think it's a bit different because I think that they've, I think this is a new, this is a new Atleti, right? Or it's in the process of becoming a new Atleti. I think they're in a bit of a weird place at the moment. I don't think they're quite, I don't think they fully let go of the previous iteration of Atleti, which even then I don't think was fully, it wasn't the fully grind it out and shit out of your way to victory like it was in 2014. They were way more expansive and actually to a point where it cost them quite a lot, I think. You know, if you think they started this game with Julian Alvarez up front and Raspardori who came in in the summer.

35:44Ryan Hunn: And so that's a new look attack for them that they're trying to figure out. They've been so reliant on Griezmann who came off the bench on the weekend. Koke and Barrios are in the middle of midfield and I don't think Simeone's quite figured out what he wants them to be this season now I don't think that means that they shouldn't be picking up points and winning games I think they should be I think they should be beating teams like Mallorca I think that's only what Mallorca's second point of the season

36:07Musa Okwonga: Well I look at the line-up and I sometimes see multiple identities in the same team and I look at the profile of player they have they've got someone like Raspidori who, great goal scorer hasn't always been a key starter but is a great contributor from the bench Alvarez who I'd like to see as the kind of out and out Mr Penal in this game as well I remember yeah like fantastic player I just again yeah I look at the team and I think I don't see a cohesive identity from week to week

36:33Ryan Hunn: they remind me very much of like one of these like legacy groups who decide to not make an album for eight years because they all want to go off and do specific kinds of music that they don't do together as a band anymore do you know what I mean? he did a what? he did a what album?

36:50Musa Okwonga: but yeah I think that Atleti an enigma and I think it doesn't help that those two teams traditional rivals are setting such a strong pace Barcelona and Real Xabi Alonso who is absolutely settled in you talk about identity Real haven't even hit their full stride yet and it's already very very clear what they're about and they're looking and Mbappe is absolutely flourishing in that team it's just really impressive already

37:15Ryan Hunn: let's go France quick yeah very quickly well I'll say PSG was postponed to tonight due to the bad weather so that didn't take place but Ansi Fatih in among the goals again

37:27Musa Okwonga: yeah he got himself a couple against bottom place Mets 5-2 win for Monaco puts them up to second place just happy to see him happy I think he's just one of those players that brings joy and Pogba still to return as well so Monaco looking like one of the sourciest teams I just if you offered me a ticket to see some to see one team tomorrow I think that'd be one I'd go and do. Pogba's return, yeah, just for the vibes of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

37:52Ryan Hunn: Quick shout for Roma winning the Derby della Capitale. Two red cards for last year.

37:58Musa Okwonga: Pellegrini with the winner, his fourth in the fixture. Oh, wow, yeah. Derby legend. The Guendouzi red card was funny because it was like, he got it for talking back by the looks of it.

38:11Ryan Hunn: Yeah, I mean, this is very much like a classic of the Guendouzi genre where it's like I haven't really been able to affect the game so much here we're deep in stoppage time I gotta do something

38:20Musa Okwonga: it's such a grand doozy coded red card it really really is classic Musoguanga existential red card I think he was trying to feel something for sure 100 %

38:30Ryan Hunn: two late red cards 12 minutes apart the reds at the end of the game but yeah good win for Roma who are fourth currently great start to life in Rome for Gasparini they only lost that game against Torino which was a bit of a blip for them to be honest Milan beat Udinese and a third Napoli are playing tonight they're hosting Pisa so you would expect them to win that game if they do they go top of the lead because Juve dropped points they drew one all the way at Hellas Verona back to back wins for Atalanta 3-0 over Torino saw them go up to 5th where else do you want to go anything else you want to shout out very quickly I think

39:13Musa Okwonga: I am good.

39:15Ryan Hunn: Can I shout out Benfica? They won 3-0 in their first game under Marino away at AVS. So he's very much back.

39:22Musa Okwonga: One of the few, yeah, after the third goal they got Benfica, he smashes the ball up towards the stands.

39:28Ryan Hunn: Yeah, he's so back.

39:29Musa Okwonga: And it's one of the few times where you'll see as much time spent in the highlights package on the manager's reaction as the actual goal. I mean, just these box offices.

39:39Ryan Hunn: Yeah, he's in that late era kind of like where an actor, a really really like you mentioned the al pacino thing it would be if like uh something that went and won the palm door or whatever or was up for the palm door just gave a massive part massive part to al pacino he basically just did what he wanted and ignored all direction in the movie yeah he just does what he wants yeah yeah i see that yeah you know it's funny with with uh with marino as well this is absolutely a weird thing to say but you know you spent so many years listening

40:05Musa Okwonga: to marino do interviews in english and the most iconic this is the most iconic things that like a manager's ever said, right? In the English language. And then to hear him speaking Portuguese throughout an entire post-match interview is like, oh yeah, Mourinho's like, it's like his third or fourth language. I've got a quick question

40:23Ryan Hunn: for you off the top of your head. What's your favourite era of Mourinho?

40:26Musa Okwonga: Inter.

40:27Ryan Hunn: Same.

40:28Musa Okwonga: Inter.

40:29Ryan Hunn: I was going to say same. Sort of all came together.

40:31Musa Okwonga: Inter. I loved it because it was his arc, like, it was perfect. All the conditions. What's his whole thing? Resurrecting a dormant giant. Bringing glory back because then he can bring everyone with him and then it was never the same after that never the same because Madrid just engulfed him because Madrid doesn't need it doesn't need a Mourinho I think that was

40:54Ryan Hunn: in terms of I think if he looks back on his career pure speculation I might be wrong I think if he could add one do over I don't think he goes to Madrid

41:03Musa Okwonga: then I mean that's the only thing is if anything just take the national team job because if you're going to like I mean it was too early for him to manage the national team maybe that was ahead of the curve but I don't think that Madrid is a step up from Inter. With what he did there, what he built, and I don't think that Inter team had much juice left in it. I don't think it did because of the age profile. But Madrid, look, you take the job because it's there but then you're running into that brick wall of Barcelona.

41:29Ryan Hunn: Do you know where he should have gone? He should have gone Atleti in 2011. Oh my God. There's a what if there, man. If Mourinho goes to Atleti instead of Simeone in 2011.

41:38Musa Okwonga: See that, that, that. Because that Mourinho that version of Mourinho now of course like Atleti fans would be like look what he did with us and no not of course look no one what Simeone did at Atleti the 2014 league title in particular is one of the greatest coaching achievements like in modern seriously could have had two Champions Leagues could have could have but yeah there we go look and that's not

42:03Ryan Hunn: I'm not saying that yeah I'm not saying Mourinho would have done better but I'm just saying from a kind of like Mourinho arc I think his I wonder if his aura lasts a bit longer. If he does, for example, if he does at Atleti or Simeone did at Atleti and then bounces after four years, five years, like say if Mourinho's there until 2015 and then he bounces and then he goes to Chelsea or whatever. I think he's, I think...

42:24Musa Okwonga: I think his aura is much better. I think he keeps his aura. I think you're completely right. That's a great shout. Anyway,

42:29Ryan Hunn: very, very quickly before we go, let's just shout out a couple of results in the Eri Divisi. Three all draw AZ Alkmaar against Feyenoord. 90th minute red card for Feyenoord. 98 minute penalty for Alkmaar absolutely unbelievable game of football and also PSV Ajax 2-0 on the weekend great game of football if you haven't seen it late equaliser for Ajax

42:50Musa Okwonga: providing my favourite actually the Eredivisie provided my favourite moment of the week this is a bit hipster but watching Christian Kivu and Heitinger embrace into Ajax because they had that amazing early part of their career together and that Ajax team had all those incredible players like not all of them achieved their fullest potential but Kivu absolutely was one that went off and just went and did bits and is doing, you know, a commendable job at Inter as well. And like, there's something about players that like, don't just put an entire, the expectations of an entire country on their back.

43:21Musa Okwonga: It's a really specific thing. Like, you look at what Luka Doncic has done with Slovenia and like Real Madrid and like, it's so, those countries that don't have like huge populations and the expectation, like all of it, it hits different because you're the only one. I don't think a lot of people appreciate enough what it is to be like the sole superstar of your era from your country and what Kivu carried and the way he did it was such class. Like, sorry, it's a Christian Kivu appreciation podcast. But yeah, I just, I just love what he's, what he's done and what he's doing.

43:53Ryan Hunn: All right, man, shall we get out of here? Let's do it. Let's do it. We hope everyone's staying safe and well. Don't forget, if you haven't signed up as a Stadio member on Patreon, go to patreon.com forward slash Stadio and you'll get to hear our full episode about Liverpool on Wednesday and maybe another show on Friday. oh yeah there will be actually because Europa League's back this week so we'll do a Europa League show on Friday in the meantime don't forget to check the Stadio Archers place on Spotify and speaking of which lost another legend this weekend JD Twitch from Optimo who a couple of people were posting about in the music thread on the Stadio Discord yeah an absolute legend of the Glasgow music scene, going to play out on one of his a track under his alias Tomorrow the Rain Will Fall Upwards and the track is called And I Tried So Hard

44:39Musa Okwonga: yeah quite a few on my instagram uh sharing really lovely memories and again like everyone having a different story which was lovely yeah man anything you want to add me nothing further

44:50Ryan Hunn: all right everyone much love stay well and we'll be back with you on wednesday see you then

45:12Thank you.

45:40Thank you.

46:12Thank you.

46:42Thank you.

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