Chelsea, Arsenal and all the smoke at Stamford Bridge

0:22Hello and welcome back to the Stadio podcast. I'm Misukwong Konga. I'm Ryan Hun. Ryan, how are you doing? doing all right thanks man how are you very well indeed no you are manchester united won a game stop stop trying to get excited don't give the reasons for my happiness otherwise they'll fall away we hope everyone stays safe and well a very very quick reminder up top we are a few days away from our first show at the south bank center in london if you are in london and you want to come along there are some tickets still available but get them quick because uh we've seen a few the rest of them are starting to well not exactly fly out that's a bit that sounds quite dramatic but they're moving they're moving and it's a bigger it's going to be our biggest Stadio live show ever so far so if you want to come and see us Thursday night at the Southbank Centre we're in the Purcell room come along tickets are available the link is in the podcast description other couple of bits of admin if you want to sign up for the Stadio social club or listen to every single Stadio episode ad free in full as a podcast member you can go to patreon.com forward slash Stadio we are going to do a little free week soon as well for people just to see what the Patreon is like so if you want to go and sign up as a free member ahead of time you can also do that patreon.com forward slash stadio anything else admin wise no that's about it other than that we hope everyone's staying safe and well wherever you are and today we're going to do a bit of a roundup-y thing kind of there's some interesting stuff going on around Europe at the moment in terms of the leagues that I think at this stage of the season is fairly surprising.

1:58Actual title races in more leagues than we probably thought there would be in terms of how condensed they are. And we'll obviously talk about the Premier League because there were some interesting results in the Premier League this week. But I reckon there's only one place to begin. No, I'm not going to get drawn in. I'm not going to do this. It's actually a monumental place to begin. Yeah, so that is true. that is true good let's start with the Copa Libertadores final Flamengo beating Palmeiras 1-0 at the Monumental quite possibly the best location for a game this season mind-blowing epic I mean that's something out of a computer game generally like it was it is stunning stunning actually it's a bit of a deep cut but if you fly into Seattle and you see the Mount is it a Mount I'm not sure which mount it's Rainier or St.

2:54Helens apologies but you come out of the Seattle airport and there's like this vast mountain just right there and it's like that almost this maybe actually maybe maybe the setting actually overshadowed or overawed the game because every time you look up you saw that but it was not unfortunately necessarily a spectacle worthy of the surroundings but I think that's because of the nature of what was at stake so to be clear there were not many points separating Flamengo and Palmyra in the actual lead table the time of this game. Only a few points separating them. Panamera second, Flamengo top of the Brazilian first division.

3:27Those teams have a lot of historical needle and if Flamengo won this as they go on to do, a single goal by Danilo, second half header from a corner, won a very few attempts on target. It's the first Brazilian team to win four Coppola Bertadores titles. Wow, they're third in six years as well, right? Incredible. Coach by Felipe Luiz, who is his third title with them two as a player since returning to Brazil and a very and a young dude like yeah yeah he's not unbelievable it's an incredible achievement from him and a club legend on and off the field he's not long turned 40 it's unreal it's absolutely unreal I was thinking Vincent Kompany and Filipe Luiz like but Vincent Kompany is 39 and he's coaching Bayern Munich and Filipe Luiz is like in his early 40s and he's winning a couple of Bertadores under that pressure.

4:21I mean, the game itself, just to be clear, quick recap, in terms of the actual game, there was an effort by Enrique in the first half, sliced high and wide, and that kind of was, that summed up really, the anxiety over the chances and both teams, I suppose, almost like kind of like a mid-block and were afraid to really break just because the stakes were so high. And this is, it's a pattern we've seen in this, at this stage, the couple of birthdays before, just, it's so clear how much teams have to lose when they play this fixture. It's hard to overstate the intensity of the feeling around the final.

4:55I even get nervous watching it sometimes with just no stake in it at all. You feel like it's a... More Jeopardy. It's more Jeopardy than the Champions League final, actually. When I watch this, I feel like more Jeopardy than the Champions League final in terms of the caginess of the fixture. Anecdote, and I know there have been multiple winners, especially quite recently, but it sometimes feels like the pathway back there isn't so clear cut as it is sometimes for some of the top teams in the champions league do you know i mean it feels like when you drop off for that cycle of getting back into there it can be really really difficult to go and do it again it feels like a real slog of a tournament i just think as well like the geographical variables like the amount of geographies you play in and the distance you travel between each of these like you have a bigger range of climates you're going to you're going to ecuador you're going to all over like you don't have that range of like travel and scheduling and overlap and league formats like it is every knockout tournament is a crapshoot but this i think even more so than the champions league um and again like you say to find your way back is a really really tough thing like look at santos 40 years in the wilderness like it's not a and that's a giant like a if you look at what inter had to go through to find their way back to win the champions league in 2010 and you triple that for some of these clubs like look at independiente right they've won they still won the most but they've not won it for a while like it's a long yeah what's that thing that there's a line by kano um in the most recent tune he was chapter 16 with dave this game ain't for the thrones and kings are checkable and i think kings are absolutely checkable in the couple of bird stories like anyone can get got so congratulations to flamingo and my friend Pedro he's been celebrating Fernanda too over in New York they're going to be vibing I know they're celebrating because I haven't replied to their messages so wherever you are enjoy responsibly and hydrate yeah alright man should we go to the Premier League let's do it where do you want to begin in the Premier League because I feel like we have to begin with Chelsea Arsenal yeah yeah I think we have to the scrap at the bridge the scrap at the bridge and Chelsea won Arsenal 1 Chelsea won Arsenal 1 Chelsea showing they were good value for that decisive victory over Barcelona.

7:11If you look at Barcelona the last couple of games and Chelsea the last couple of games, in terms of what Chelsea are as a collective, they're just the cut above, I think, at this point. They're such a great solidity. And they're actually quite well suited to going down to 10 men because they have players like Gerard Pedro dropping in. Pedro and Etta do a lot of work defensively. So they cover a lot of ground, even with 11. So when they go down to 10, it's a credit to them. They don't necessarily do the difference. And this is the one connective tissue, I think, between Thomas Tuchel's Chelsea and Mareska's Chelsea.

7:44And the one thing I would say, the one reason I compare it is the ability to close gaps, their ability to seal gaps quite effectively when under pressure and to break with a bit of enterprise. And I think you said in the chat as well, the Discord, this is a team that's broken up play against Arsenal as well as you can remember this season. Yeah, I mean, I think it's hard to say stuff like that without it sounding disrespectful. And I don't mean it to be disrespectful, but the opening, what, 15 minutes or so of that game, yeah, I haven't seen a team break the game down like Chelsea have against Arsenal this season so far.

8:23And by that, I mean the physicality side of it, the, you know, deliberately kind of targeting certain players to kind of impose that physicality on them really, really early off and kind of like try and throw the, like all perfectly legal, not me complaining by any means. There was definitely like a, right, we're going to come out and we're going to kind of like F you up a bit here. And I think it really worked. But at the same time, both teams were looking for something definitive from it. And I don't think either side got much from it definitively. and I think a lot of fans were trying to put some quite big statements on the game and I don't think it was quite there because I mean the red card was part of that but I also I think that at the end of the week what it happened I think context was such a major part for both sides right and I think that from Chelsea's point of view I said in the Stadio Discord that even though they clearly had the better of the open in 15-20 minutes or so I think Saka had the first chance or the first shot on target and that was a really good chance actually to be honest I think he should have done better he should have done better and I think he probably should have given Arsenal the lead and around about five minutes before Caicedo got sent off it felt like that tactic that Chelsea came flying out with was Arsenal was starting to get a handle on it a little bit more and Chelsea were losing a little bit of focus you know Caicedo I thought was quite lucky to escape a yellow before that apart from the Caicedo Red which we'll talk about Chelsea only had one other booking whereas I think Arsenal had six I thought it was very strange refereeing I thought look I think I felt like Antti Taylor sometimes you see a referee that decides how they want to referee a game before the game starts I don't think he was penalising Arsenal over Chelsea you start the game going okay look it's going to be a high intensity game I'm just going to like not let stuff go early on but then it was like oh I've I've gone too hard on stuff.

10:24So I can't go on the other things. And it just happened that the Arsenal players were the ones that infringed early on in a way that he had in his head. And this is the problem. This was, this game was a classic example of the perils of pretty much discourse. Rice against Caicedo. How was that? That wasn't even a thing. Not being funny. Where is that? Where does that come from? Can I, can I, can I sound really mean? What, what is that? Like, where does that come from? Like for me, watching Chelsea, Chelsea, what is most impressive about them is how they fit together as a unit. It's not actually, when I look at them, I don't think, oh, it's an individual that stands out.

10:59It's a collective effort, right? In the same way that they can have Gittins and Garnaccio, and they've got fairly interchangeable wide forwards in certain areas. Apart from Neto, basically, everyone else is kind of interchangeable for me at Chelsea, right? The whole point about Chelsea for me is the collective. When you start making conversations about individuals, it just makes a focus that doesn't exist or belong there. And I think Rice can handle that. I think, well, clearly can handle it, but I think Kaiseido can. And it's not a knock on Kaiseido. It's just a weird, it was such a weird discourse and it felt like it warped things because everything that Kaiseido did with the ball, I thought was really impressive.

11:34And I said this, like I was saying this earlier, I felt like a yellow card early would have saved him from himself. And while we're doing that, let's come back to the positive stuff. Esteval looked really, really good. again and I just think there was that that chance he had the one that like sat up and he hit it over if he scores that maybe it's a different outcome for Chelsea I don't know but at that point with Rhys James switching it really well Gusto tucking him really well alongside Martinelli up against Martinelli difficult matchup and also Saka I have to say what they did with Saka was he wasn't quite in his rhythm.

12:12Some of the passing wasn't the best, but I think that he was, I think they dealt with him pretty well, actually, Chelsea. So all in all, their matchups, they were just, they were executing. And I think maybe they'll have a frustration here because they thought if we could have gone in and dialed it back a bit, we could have got more out of this game. Because Arsenal, having had these two huge games back to back, I think there was an element. I think the frustration from maybe Chelsea's perspective was there was maybe more yeah I think that's the thing here I saw a lot of stuff afterwards from an Arsenal perspective being like hey we've missed a chance to open the gap here and I was like yeah but the red card will switch that performance for Chelsea and that's a good point right I think actually to be honest it's a really really good point for both sides in the context of everything because you know for Chelsea going down to 10 after playing Barcelona at home in midweek and putting them away comfortably.

13:12Barcelona also down to 10 men. I think Chelsea taking the lead with 10 men and then hanging in there. And to be honest, I think a point was fair. I don't think either side really did enough to win the game outright. You can take a huge amount of positives after playing for an hour nearly with 10 men. There was an opportunity there. If you look at the week that Arsenal have had, very emotional week with the North London derby and then the Bayern game at home. the first time that Saliba, neither Saliba nor Gabriel have started a game in the Premier League for over three years, I think. And you could see that, actually.

13:47I think that you could, as good as Incapié and Oskara were and are, that was a centre-back pair and starting its first game together in the Premier League. And... You could see that, absolutely. Like I was saying before, I think that when Caicedo got sent off, I think it refocused Chelsea because they were starting to lose that focus of the opening period which they, shouts to Matt who's a Chelsea fan in the Stadio Discord, he was kind of saying a similar thing where it's hard to like maintain that, it was quite an emotional start. It's too much. And I think it's quite hard to maintain that for a whole game and I think that there was a couple of things afterwards being like, you know, Chelsea were like, if it was 11 v 11, Chelsea probably going to win that game.

14:28I understand that thinking but that kind of emotion is hard to maintain. Yes. So I think that having a clear plan, having a clear focus and being like, look we're actually got this is has to be really really structured now and disciplined I think helped Chelsea and they did really really well with it like getting the goal getting ahead Rhys James in midfield I thought was very very good he it was something interesting going on it felt like Declan Rice dropped into a much deeper pocket than he has had to recently in order to get on on the ball but at the same time he ended up I think with only Mosquera had more passes and more touches yeah but then rice in the game yeah what rice did there was a lot of work actually went throughout both halves where he would do this kind of caretaking role picking up like he would cut off not only counter-attacks but like he would just snuff out so many things he was just cleaning up all the ends actually almost like a kind of not like quite an extra center back but doing a lot of that defensive work uh it reminded me a lot of um you know when crows was effectively playing left back but you had people sort of tucking in defensively to let him do that.

15:35And I think that was a key part. A lot of Rice's best work, and this is credit to James, a lot of Rice's best work was getting back and snuffing out that because James was switching so well. They were almost like mirroring each other. And so, yeah, a lot of the work that Rice did, I think, you know, I was saying in the chat as well, defensively I thought he was exceptional.

15:56And fascinating, you look at the contrast with the game he put on against Bayern. and you have two very different midfield performances in the space of a week. And that's something that James can do, do. Rhys James. We're really just spoiled for talent with the England midfield at the moment where you've got players that can have completely different guises. Like what we had, like Jude Bellingham, playing right wing back at one point last year for Real Madrid. Right wing back, right wing. Yeah, right wing back, right back. Or then playing as a nine, as a 10. So yeah, some great options in that.

16:29We haven't talked about what this means for England as an option, but... We can wait. But what a nice problem to have, actually. With Rhys James looking like this, and you've got Anderson in the middle too, and a ton of those others. I mean, it's, wow. Good times. Two pretty good goals, actually, as well in this game. Both headers. Chelsea from the set piece. Chalabar with textbook movement for that. Yeah, it was really good. That's where you see the missing celebrans in Gabriel. Yeah, I agree. and also movement if you get the movement from Moreno and Moreno for his goal was wild because as soon as the ball goes that wide there's a real kind of like wrestles someone you see him just make that run into the box like right into the middle yep yep he he continues to do kind of amazing things playing as this number nine you think they have us and look if you look at like Arsenal previous seasons the lack of a nine or the loss of a nine has felt fatal and what Havertz has been out for ages Jokoros is like in and out and it's not really a thing it's not a problem position for them Havertz hasn't played since the first game of the season Unreal Before we forget while we're talking about all of this which one of the goals but goalkeepers huge shout actually Raya made a great save from a header at the start of the second half but Robert Sanchez made a couple of brilliant stops Good performance from Sanchez It's fantastic and actually somebody who Shout out to him as well like because when he came there from Brighton, I think he was one of the more, one of the less heralded players.

18:03I think Cucuré came with a big rep, but Sanchez I don't think necessarily had the same fanfare. And again, look, it's not, if you're a Chelsea, you know, player, you've got a lot of people coming for your spot at once, and he has fought off some tough challenges to get that role, and he looked really assured there, really assured. Either one of those two low stops, and Keepers of a slightly low quality don't make those saves and arguably kept Chelsea right in it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think it's one of those. Such a fair result. This is such a fair result. Yeah, and I think in the context of both sides' weeks, both clubs' weeks, both sides, anyway, the context of their weeks, I think that's, they'll both be pretty happy with that.

18:50And it meant that Arsenal are five points clear at the top now because Man City they had a bit of a struggle on Saturday but they won against Leeds 3-2 to go second. A late Phil Foden winner in stoppage time at the end of the game. So he basically bookended the game and the goals. Funny game this because... First minute. Funny because City made hard work of it despite being a couple of goals up and were good value for it and it still was close. It was an onslaught in the closing minutes. There were 10 minutes at a time. They actually scored quite early in two at a time. It's not like they did it right at the very end.

19:33But yeah, it's good to see a range of goal scorers for them. So much talk about Haaland dominating or holding the strike. But he didn't get that much out of this game. But the thing about him is, again, when he's not scoring or getting real looks, he's causing trouble just by virtue of the presence and the movement. Great to see Foden looking happy and amongst it. leads will be frustrated uh they've lost several on the bounce now but it's this this isn't this isn't this isn't the defeat you catastrophize over the german comms were like oh my goodness questions for daniel farke and i'm like no this isn't this isn't the game like you yeah the defeats have come what brighton forest away brighton away forest away villa at home city away there aren't any howlers in that and actually even at two nil down they kind of played with a lot of freedom they looked really good they looked really really good at 2-0 and even at 2-1 Lucas Mett just going against his old team a follow up from a penalty and I don't know actually it's one of those there's no good defeats but there are less bad defeats and there's a lot they can take in terms of positives from this one so Leeds fans you know hang in there hang in there Chelsea next for Leeds at home on Wednesday let's talk about Liverpool quickly they won a game they kept a clean sheet good win there And they looked much better with quite an interesting selection.

20:57No Mo Salah in the side. No. And look, small sample size, one game, but looked a little... probably the most balanced I've seen Liverpool look so far this season in terms of how those new players fit into that side didn't feel like anything was being forced really for the first time Gomez Soboslai infinitely more solid right side than than before because you have Gomez who is a natural defender and Soboslai who gives you far more defensive intensity than a conventional winger would give you on the right flank. So that sorts out a lot. And then having them alongside Canate, it cauterizes the wound, actually.

21:47It means that that flank is one that you look at and go, that is just solid. And it gives someone like Vietz, who should have scored a bit tentative, but looked good in combination. I think that the best parts of his game, the link-up, we saw more of that. The structure on the right side is really good. And it creates an interesting question for Salah's return. actually I think because this was it just looked like solid actually down that side in a way they haven't really the season so far Well they're getting used to him before well they're getting used to that selection before he goes to AFCON right so they're going to have to play with this for a little while Comes at a good time actually weirdly the AFCON in a funny kind of way Yeah and I wonder whether Fasala just stepping out of the Premier League for a bit might be a help as well I think it's a win-win I think it's good for him and I think it's good for Liverpool just to like lock down some part of the pitch and get things working.

22:41Again, not blaming him it's a systemic issue but just I think taking some of the drama out and just closing some of the gaps because with the new signings with some of the absentees and the sales there's just so many holes at the moment. Yeah, but a good solid win and Isak with a lovely finish. This goal was sick. I think kind of like I don't think enough was made about this goal to be honest like the calmness of the finish. It felt very training ground almost like last kick of the game on a Monday night five aside it was just the way it was constructed like the passing by Witts cuts it to Witts great cutback from Gakpo Gakpo loves this kind of inside left spot but like Iketike and then the finish he like was it Ozil's first goal for Arsenal like the side foot finish against Napoli the Napoli one it was like that he likes to sit a bit was it a bit fade listen steady on here the side foot cutting across with the side foot as it goes across I'll allow a lot but like look steady let's go calm down a bit what Viz what what what what Isak does with this is just cutting across with the instep and finding the bottom corner so the ball almost like bends in slightly just inside the post such a nice finish obviously he was very relieved by that and then Pakitar with slightly weird red yeah and then the statement afterwards so he gets booked and then like says a lot more and then the ref was like okay like I think he gets booked initially and then like says a lot of the ref is like actually just get out of here right so put it this way because i i was watching the game on mute and i turned away and i turned back and i saw pakatar going at the ref and i was like oh he's been sent off and he's just kind of giving the ref you know a load of shit because he sent him off and then i saw the second yellow come out and i was like oh no like what are you what are you doing yeah and then he came out with a statement online about like you know this is the lack of support from the authorities and all the rest of it um look it was a bad second yellow it just didn't need to happen right regardless you have a new coach who's giving you an identity you're still only a goal down and that's just not when the card's meant to happen and look we can talk about especially that self-inflicted dude i think it's one of those ones that you look at and go i let myself down i let everyone down um and then gap post scoring very late on to take the two nil and that's just a look a two nil away at a Nuno coach team is a good result at any point in world history.

25:09So yeah, you take that. Yeah, and congrats to Liverpool. It's nice to see them kind of stemming a bit of the stemming a bit of the negativity that's been around them the last... The clean sheet was massive. Big look for them. Absolutely massive. Just one more thing on this game before we move on. Tributes were paid to West Ham legend Billy Bonds before the game who sadly passed away this weekend aged 79. Won two FA Cups with West Ham and returned as a manager as well. So yeah, love and thoughts to his family, friends and all the West Ham family. All right, let's talk about Manchester United. Yes.

25:44Came from a goal down at Palace to win 2-1. Can I say this about Palace and well, Mateta specifically, what is his ceiling? Because I feel like it's high. Like I know we know how good he is, right? But I look at him and I see his poise, his play. he did miss a good chance before he put them a goal up with a twice taken penalty but I look at his goal output but not just that the link up over the last few years and his evolution as a player and I just think this guy could play for see how Bayern picked up Nicholas Jackson right you see I was like he's going to say Bayern or Barca yeah but I really think that like this guy's ceiling is because he gave us an absolute chasing He gave us a nightmare, United.

26:34And Palace looked really good in the first half. They just couldn't put United away. That was it, really. It felt like they had a ton of chances. Yeah, one thing I'll say about United, there's some players there, there's some real resilience in that team. Not the best performance by any means, but Ziyechse with a nice goal and Mount with a great finish, Bruno with a couple of assists, he's just been exceptional again. A slight note of caution, Amorim made some comments about how you can see Dorgu's anxiety with every touch of the ball he makes and I just don't think there's any place for that I'm really confused by some of this I've got to say Manchester United's last two coaches Ten Hag and Amorim they have had failures of communication communication is not a strong point for either of them now I'm less surprised by Ten Hag than I am by Amorim but I think this is a thing he has to get a handle on because if you're saying that every single time your player gets the ball you see the anxiety that you're putting you're putting you're giving a talking point that they don't doesn't need to be out there but you're also giving the opposition a target yeah totally totally which I don't think was warranted but looking at it positively this is a fantastic when you win away at Palace who are surging yeah United up to what seventh now not far off the Champions League spots which sounds ridiculous given everything that's going on so far Yeah but it's not though because if you think that I mean we talked about this in a Liverpool sense a lot this season and why for example all of the talk about firing Arna Schlott to me seems absurd because Liverpool are I mean if you assume that the Premier League is going to get a fifth spot and even if they don't they're still only three points off the Champions League spots but if there's a fifth spot they're a point off so so united so yeah that's yeah i just think like the way through the season you know totally i would just say to round up on united very quickly a really good win more really a triumph i think of resilience though than he considered a great fluidity but great to see mason mount among the goals um a player who i i love and it feels like every now and again with united you get a glimpse of the future and it's something not to get too overwhelmed or excited about because, you know, let's not get ahead of ourselves, but you see some benefits actually.

29:03I don't think, I will say in this, in the defense of these players, I'm not sure how much better this collection of players, this collection of players, given their age profile and their positional profile, I'm not sure how much better they can perform. And so I just want a bit of grace extended to them, not only by some of the pundits, but I think by maybe Amarim himself, I would say. Yep. where do you want to go next can we go to like sunderland yes oh my god this game first of all okay tyler adams with one of the goals of the season can we just oh my god like tyler adams the funniest thing about this goal if you watch it back like when sunderland have a corner you're like within a few within five seconds the ball will be in sunderland net this is what i love about this league anyone can get got um that finish is an absolute worldy it's almost and i I blame you for this because ever since you nominated the goal of the season, players have just been going, oh, really?

30:04You say it like it wasn't deliberate. You did it on Berth, you've unleashed, you opened the hell mouth. I'm sure it was, knowing you, I'm sure it was deliberate. I want to be entertained. Give me more goals. Listen, we've got them. We've got more than we can handle. Tidellas will take that, Stadio. Yeah, tune a lot, Bournemouth. But do you know who else listens to Stadio? Who's that? Troy Parrott. the parrot door Troy Parrott someone hipped him to the parrot door he listened to Stadio and this is what I'm convinced this is the timeline he listened to Stadio he was like oh these guys are like mad on Penenka's right got a penalty was it the last minute of the Alkbar game on the weekend and tried a Penenka oh no what happened went over the bar oh no did they win still no they were 1-0 down to Twente oh no listen it's a circle of life this penalty by the way was in the 99th minute Do you know what though?

30:55I respect it. I respect it more for doing it then than if they were 3-0 up. Live by the sword, die by it. Listen, you don't get anywhere and let you take those risks, man. Got to take those risks. Listen, he's still goated, man. He's still goated for that. I respect him even more. Yeah, but like Sunderland did so well to come back here in this game against a really good Bournemouth side. Well, we say really good. I mean, they are really good, but they have had a couple of slides of late, uncharacteristic slides. But Sunderland in sixth. what a story that is they're going to go into that derby against Newcastle like decisively that is that is wow

31:35actually that's let me be clear let me be clear they may not go into the game against Newcastle ahead of them because they do have Liverpool and City next those aren't easy ties by any stretch but wow if you're going to begin a stretch of games Liverpool City Newcastle I mean this is dreamland for them it also feels like Bournemouth and Brighton neither of them can operate in the top six at the same time when one goes out it's like they're a tag team they have to tag yeah for sure because Brighton kind of crept up while Bournemouth were hitting their slides so Brighton beating Forest 2-0 away that's four unbeaten now three three wins in the last four and they're up to fifth and they've got Villa next week at home which feels like a massive game because Villa beat Wolves in the Derby 1-0 and our fourth another cracking winner as well yeah I think Villa Villa have figured out they're like everyone's like oh your forwards aren't scoring Villa are like we don't care like we're just going to score goals whoever gets them but look I'm really happy for Villa I know that's my bias showing but I'm happy they've figured out why is that your bias what's your I just like to see I just like what they're building over there and that lack of qualification for Champions League knocked them sideways is a bit and I was worried it would take me a while to bounce back from that but they've really done that.

32:57They've done that really, really well. We need to talk about Newcastle and we need to talk about Spurs because they play each other next week. Newcastle beating Everton 4-1 away. 4-0 up and then Keenan Dewsbury Hall with a goal that will be what did you say the other day? A goal that will be lost to history. Yeah. And we've seen so many goals that are going to be lost. The Richarlison one is gone. uh it's going to disappear like tears tears the tears in rain goals we're gonna have to have like the stadio archive which is basically just there to remember goals that were so good to call it just got lost streets streets will forget because the streets really do forget some of these like streets will forget the streets will forget museum they will yeah the streets will forget like was it um stephen camden the beloved polar bear uh said was it this channel is bird camp 998 bird camp that first touch is it was three touches isn't it and they're all perfect the ball just comes over his shoulder kills it dead between the defenders just like it's like the badger amazing goals that he's had in a row badger against uh juventus for breccia the pierlo long ball yeah when the first touch basically takes it round incredible buffon it's that it's like similar to that it's so so good but it's it's going to be forgotten because newcastle was so good in this and Tiar with two goals he's looked fantastic since arriving from Milan.

34:18It's a great get. Such a good get. Such a good get. And then Volta Marder just looking incredible. Again like every week you see why Bayern were just desperate to get this guy. You see it. Good goal for Luis Miley as well. Yeah. He's still only 19. Weirdly it feels like he's been around for ages. Another one of these players that can just sort of tuck in. Yeah. Feels like he just randomly tuck in. If he had to like tuck in wherever he would do it like tactically so smart and a great finish from him as well yeah right let's talk about Spurs Spurs one Fulham two Fulham two nil up after six minutes yeah yeah do you know what after six minutes two one looks good for Spurs because it does I thought that was going to get away from them that game because there was because Fulham had a couple of other chances before half time yeah where they really really could have put Spurs away and I think that I do wonder if this is just like another slow start to Thomas Frank.

35:11And it is quite early. And I wonder if Spurs, it feels like a change in manager would not be wise for Spurs, I don't think. I really like the appointment and I really like the collection of players. They've got really, really good tools. I think it's a question of what do they, it's identity, isn't it? What do they want to be? Do you want to be a team that sits deep or do you want to be a team that goes toe to toe, almost like sort of like they did against PSG, where they showed the kind of enterprise that I think a lot of their fans would have liked to show against Arsenal. And what happens, you get cooked for your trouble.

35:43The problem with this is Spurs now have a collection of defeats that are all in their own way equally agonising. A game where it didn't go for it and got found out for the trouble. A game where they kind of went for a bit more against PSG and got found out for the trouble. And a game where they were rigid in their ideology of let's play out, let's play out, and then got absolutely cooked. So you stick to your guns or you don't stick to your guns and you get done either way. And we always say don't draw the wrong conclusion from a bad result. The problem is when the results have been this diverse in their disappointment, what drawing board do you even go back to?

36:19Now, you can put it down to individual errors, yes, but you could also argue that Vicario was empowered to be as far out of his box than he was. You can argue that was part of the overarching philosophy, where players are encouraged to take responsibility and play out wherever possible. Again, I say this with all possible sympathy for Spurs. I loved the appointment. I think it's a great look. I really like their profile of players. I just think it's easy. It's a bit like when Virgil van Dijk said, let's not panic, and then they lost three more on the bounce. I think they should be doing better than they are they absolutely should I think they had a good transfer window in the summer I also kind of feel like justice for Ange a bit Thomas Frank was supposed to be the sensible one and I know that look they've played some good teams but they've conceded 11 in the last they've conceded 11 goals in a week and they've conceded 13 in the last four you know I'm like I kind of I'm a bit and they aren't super duper entertaining either right so I think it will be fine I think Thomas Frank is a very, very good coach.

37:27I think he needs time. But I'm just saying that I know that Antipas Toglu Spurs divided opinion, let's say, but they won the Europa League. And also, at least they were kind of, they gave you something emotional to grab onto, you know? I think that's right. Look, I'm just a bit baffled because these are good football. footballers they are good footballers they got newcastle next they go tost james's park which in a weird way might free them up a little bit their way records been pretty good like we said last week they had the best away record in the premier league until the arsenal game so i'm wondering if maybe just like away from home at newcastle if they get a result there first of all that'd be massive for them and also i think it might start help like start to either confirm or understand some of the nerves that are going on when they play at home because I think it got like it felt like it got it can't be fun to play in that atmosphere when it got that gnarly after six minutes.

38:35Right, right. Totally. I mean, Newcastle have been quite good at home. I would say that. Yeah, yeah. So I suppose you won't necessarily have, I think, it won't be rich. It's not going to be chill. No, but again, it's a game I'm really looking forward to. I'm really looking forward to. I have to say that much. I suppose the one thing you could say about both teams, Spurs and Newcastle, maybe they're both similarly struggling for identity. If I look at the teams above them in the league table, funny actually, if I look at the teams above Spurs, I think only, funnily enough, United and Liverpool are struggling for identity, I think, to an extent.

39:14I think everybody else kind of knows who they are, or you can see the direction of travel pretty clearly. So yeah, just stuff for Spurs to figure out. but I don't think they've even, for them, there's a couple of crucial injuries, I think. When they get some players back, I think then we can really, we can really judge them. And the thing about Spurs, the important thing to look at with Spurs is, you know, Kulosevsky is one of those, obviously, and Romero too suspended. I think the crucial thing with Spurs is, injuries have been such a big part of their story in recent seasons. I almost feel like, just give yourselves a clean bit of health.

39:49Look at the players like Kola Mouane, who have had a bit of a turbulent last couple of years and are still slowly finding their feet, just take the PSG performance and think actually that's what he's capable of and go actually okay, let's judge this guy again in three, four months. Yeah, and also Javi Seaman's just struggling with the added physicality and also I think just the depth of defences in the Premier League. Yeah. When you come from the Bundesliga, it's so heavy on the transition that you can find spaces a little more and I think that it can be very, very difficult to get to grips with the Premier League.

40:22I mean, you've seen how tricky Florian Vietz has found it and he is another level. So, yeah, I think patience is very, very key. Totally, yeah. Yeah, we'll see. Final game for the weekend in the Premier League, Brentford 3, Burnley 4. Good win for Brentford again. Three goals, well, all four goals in this game came after the 80th minute. Wild, absolutely wild. Any reflection? Sorry. maybe maybe maybe UEFA were right you know maybe we just need to show the last 15 minutes of games or whatever it was do you remember that who was it oh is it was it Angeli who's did that from Juve Carmen from the Wild kids only watch they just want to watch oh yeah he's pitching the Super League wasn't he yeah yeah all they want to do is play Fortnite and TikTok

41:15oh what an era that was goodness me Anyway, a good win for Brentford ahead of the Arsenal game on Wednesday. Solidly mid-table at the moment, which I think if you thought they were a lot of people's favourites to go down. Yeah, they're a bit like, do you remember Bielsa's Leeds that didn't have any draws? And whenever you'd won or lost, you were like, we've been in a game. And that's what they are. Interesting one about this as well. They've conceded and scored the exact amount of goals that Manchester United have. Wild. God. Not a lot of great defences in the Premier League this season, weird after me just bigging up the Premier League defences.

41:53Maybe Premier League defences are a nomination for Catfish of the Year award. Now that, that's a great shout. I would say attackers, frankly, but anyway. No, no, anyway, moving on. All right, speaking of nominations for Catfish of the Year award, did you talk about Real Madrid?

42:13No, let's start around. We would have loved to have spent a bit more time on this, but it felt like the Premier League again was just kind of... Look at me, look at me, look at me. Yeah. Guys, don't forget about us. I think we hold the Bundesliga chat maybe for Wednesday's show because there's an English revokera in Germany this week with the Pokal. I would like to chat a little bit about St. Pauli. they they have a cup game on Tuesday which I think is quite key for them so maybe let's skip the Bundesliga in detail but very very quickly Bayern came from a goal down against St. Pauli actually St.

42:54Pauli this was probably their best performance for a long time Jackson Irvine back in the midfield again now I thought he was brilliant against Bayern still a bit too soon to last 90 minutes after coming back from injury but I thought this was probably the most solid that St. Pauli have looked for a while. Hutanji got the goal early on, gave St. Pauli the lead and then went off injured, which was a real shame. And then Bayern levelled it just before half-time with Rafa Guerrero and then two goals in stoppage time at the end of the game, which was really harsh for St. Pauli, even though Bayern completely dominated possession and chances and all that lot.

43:28But I think St. Pauli did really, really well. And in my opinion, I think deserved the point, actually. It's the kind of result that can like not turn your season but be a real milestone in terms of you have that resilience yeah but still maybe they can take that from that they can still take some strength from that Gladbach's research continues to go draw against Leipzig which is really really good for them incredible the run they've been on Dortmund beat Leverkusen in the top of Budavocca Saturday night Greg I really enjoyed this game Adeyemi the aerial master now he's got the headband contains multitudes yeah look yeah really impressive Adeyemi again and a great win for Dortmund really against a surging Leverkusen side we mentioned before they're being coached really really well at the moment yeah I mean speaking of surging Hoffenheim 3-0 against Augsburg and they're up to 5th because Haas Vail beat Stuttgart last minute winner for Fabio Vieira who wasn't the Haas Vail player who got sent off this time and took advantage of that by scoring the winner at the end of the game see what happens when you hang around I know right but yeah Mainz continues to struggle losing 4-0 to Freiburg they are bottom of the league St.

44:39Pauli are now next to bottom because Heidenheim beat Union came from a goal down to beat Union two goals in the 90th minute and the 95th minute to beat Union speaking of Union I text you this so you already know about this but the weirdest thing happened so shout out to the good people at Football Manager who gave us a load of steam codes for Stadio Social Club listeners to go and get the new Football Manager game. And they flew out and they gave us a few more, which meant I was able to use one. I've not played Football Manager for a long time and I downloaded it and I was like, do you know what?

45:14I'm going to start a save as Union. And who the f*** do you think bought Danilo Doki? Manchester United. Yes, that's right. Has Musa Aguanga actually like... I had to double check who Manchester United's board and director was in the game and i was actually mildly surprised that it wasn't me i put it in the thing i was like because it was like magic knight had registered her in for interest in danilo doken i was like you have got to be kidding me even when i'm trying to get away from rusa i can't get away from the guy next up it's manu kone hey well let's use manu kone as a segue into our game of the week i suppose in what the big game in seri-r uh roma losing one nil to napoli at the stadio olympico and it means that the top four in seriat are separated by a point listen shout out to david neris because the knock on him i think at some point he was a career fantastic player but every now and again in certain contexts the finishing may be letting him down a little but he has been flying in recent weeks absolutely flying this front three that conte stumbled upon uh neres noah lang and rasmus hoyland looks really good and it's it's interesting that they've only really had to go there regularly because of lack of form and also injuries.

46:37Napoli got a ton of injuries at the moment, like key injuries as well. But yeah, I thought they looked very, very good, especially on the counter-attack. One thing Neres always gives you is great fluidity, great combination play. He's been doing that, you know, for a long time now. But now adding the decisive finishing in these huge games, got two against Atalanta a couple of weeks ago. The winner here, so impressive from him. and by contrast you know Neres getting it done in big games by contrast the problem for Gasparini is followed from Atalanta Atalanta in the last season could not get it over the line in the huge matches and we're seeing the same pattern again we're seeing it again I think we've got a big enough sample size now if you look what's happened they lost it into Narelli they lost to Milan they lost again to Napoli these are your rivals and this is not like a huge knock on Gasparini because they've lost the quality opponents the question is i suppose do you have do you have a collection of players that believe enough in these marginal situations because that's what it's coming down to at this point it's not a lack of quality that's that's stopping them getting over the line i firmly believe that because they were really good for stretches of this game yeah it didn't help that gasper was um suspended yeah kept cutting to him in the uh in like the box or whatever he's just losing his I thought that we were joking about Kone before, but I thought that he was central to a strong performance by Roma.

48:02But again, it was one of those ones where Conte, who's taken a lot of criticism in recent weeks, took some time off because Napoli had a bit of an indifferent form. He's come back strong. And I think a situation where Napoli didn't have the bulk of the ball, but got the looks they wanted, actually, and found the gaps they wanted. And you mentioned Hoyland before. He's just looked great. Just looks sharper. Yeah, so sharp. and he looks liberated actually it's just the food dude honestly yeah yeah getting that McTominay glow up but yeah great win for Napoli and they needed it because elsewhere Milan beating Lazio 1-0 yeah good win for them yes Manny Mike Mignon again with one of one of the saves of the season clawing a goal bound strike away in the top corner just unbelievable again and Rafael Leal Milan are going to be like, they're going to be the equivalent of someone winning a motor race while keeping their hands in the 10-2 position.

49:06Totally, totally, yes. Slow and steady. Told you before, slow and steady. There was a year when Chelsea won. Chelsea, you know, the absolute masters of winning while in transition. and who knows it's still a lot of season to go but Milan could do that thing where they've kind of they win while patching together the next stage or the next iteration they could do it yeah they could well yeah yeah yeah well we're going to be there in a couple of weeks yeah can't wait aren't we more news coming on that soon our little coucho weekend that we've got coming up Max and Paddy you mentioned Atalanta there Palladino yeah back to back wins in well he's up He lost his first game in charge as Atalanta manager.

49:50Won two straight now, beating his old club. Atalanta beating Fiorentina 2-0 on the weekend. They look useful, Atalanta. They look good. I think this could be a really good high. I love Kasunu and I think Lukman's fantastic. And he's looked locked in these last few games. His playmaking's been fantastic. He was a good value for his goal as well. Man, I like the setup. I like the energy they've got. Yeah, I like that. I like how they're moving. They're looking good. they're looking good it's about time they turn the corner as well frankly about time alright shall we go to Ligue 1 yes let's do it because oof Lens Lens are top of Ligue 1 defeated Angers 2-1 having gone tunnel up Thauvin back with a bang fourth goal for them well he's got is it 4 or 5 he's got now since returning to Ligue 1 and the first of these man he absolutely laced this he laced it and like Lance to be top ahead of PSG and Marseille obviously he's a Marseille old boy Thauvin but for Lance to be doing that at this stage of the season Sage the coach over there just doing absolute bits so impressive and maybe there's an element of PSG and Marseille cancelling each other out and Lance going up on the outside rail I'm not sure they've got the squad depth to carry this this season but they're making it interesting I've got to say they're making it interesting Monaco with a great win over PSG, 1-0.

51:17Minamino with a really good finish. Pogba back, his first home game for Monaco. He came on late in the game, right? Come back from the band. It was funny because Pogba... It was after Carers, right? Yeah, it was. It was. Bad red that. Pogba was... Pogba's face all over the promo for this, but Minamino would be like, look, it's me. I'm doing the big things. Yeah, guys, guys, I'm right here. What the hell? Really impressive for Monaco, though. All right, let's wrap up on La Liga. Before we talk about Barcelona and Real Madrid, let's shout out one of the best fixtures in La Liga, if not El Gran Derby.

51:51Betis beating Sevilla 2-0. Missing a few key players as well. This was a really good win for Betis. They're kind of in the top of the next closing, the closing pack on that top four, because that top four is just separated in La Liga. We'll talk about it in a sec, but yeah. Fifth still, because Espanol, Guitafe, and Athletic Club all won on the weekend as well. So there was the only side to not win in the top eight this weekend was Real Madrid who dropped points away at Girona and that's three draws in a row in the league which means that Barcelona are now top by a point. And what do we have tomorrow?

52:32What's the tie tomorrow? We have Barcelona Atletico Madrid. Oh my God, stop. On a Tuesday night in December? The amount of the hard you know it is Barcelona are making so much hard work of this season like again this sounds like a I sound churlish to say that because it actually won Barca fans yep I get it you on it weekend I'm not trying to be mean but just going a goal down after like 45 seconds you just think where are we going to get that solidity yeah but they've still the thing is they're scoring at such a clip like compared to the rest of the league they've got 10 goals more than Real Madrid have this season that's never been the problem though goals aren't the problem with Barca yeah true and it's not going to like we saw last season this isn't going to really hurt them until the last stages of the Champions League or like we saw midweek if they go down to 10 men and it costs them in a league game but they're still going to qualify through that yes Real Madrid are doing some serious like they're doing some serious work on themselves yeah yeah they are I think Madrid are really reconfiguring I think that's completely right Barcelona need to get as far out in front as they possibly can before Real Madrid figure this thing out.

53:40Because if they fix that thing, because that lineup that they've got, like what they had, they had a 4-4, 1-1 again, Goulet playing off Mbappe and they've got that flank. We talk about right flanks. The Trent Valverde right flank, if that works, if that really sets, which I think it can, with Valverde giving the defensive cover on the right flank for Trent to just launch those crossfields, at some point, that's going to click. At some point, it's going to click. And if and when it does, it's going to be watch out. it's going to be watch out. And it was funny, when I saw Mbappe score that penalty, I thought to myself, you know you're going to get blamed for this if they lose.

54:16There's a part of me that's always like watching out for him to score because then I know he'll cop the grief if he, it's the Madrid way. If you're the biggest profile player, you get the most flack if the team is losing or drawing. But yeah, Barcelona, really entertaining in this game, but again, just showing the chaos inherent in their setup. Rafinha being back is a great, great thing for them. He looked fantastic again. and Dani Olmo too. So really impressive there. And also shout out for Betis. We mentioned before, but the Fornaus goal, fantastic. Oh my God, so good. Just floating through.

54:49Do you know these like, there are so many players that are just brilliant, but because there's so many bigger stars in the league, they don't always get their shine. You have to just like shout out that Fornaus goal he did was brilliant. Elsewhere in La Liga. Sorry, just before we move on, by the way, no Paulo Lopez, no Hector Bellerin, no Los Elso, no Isco, no Sofren Amrabat, You have to like factor all that in. And they win 2-0 in the derby away. Unreal. What a statement. That's the statement victory maybe of the weekend actually in the context of all the players out. I agree. Alright. Do you want to shout out anything else before?

55:24Oh, we should shout out Villarreal beating Real Sociedad 3-2 away. Yes. And Marcelino is coaching the hell out of that side. When is he not? Let's see where else do we go. Just before you mentioned Atleti winning 2-0 over Oviedo. they're up in fourth and that league you know you mentioned this before we started the chat like not much separating those top four Barca Real Villarreal and Atleti are Atleti turning the no no we did this last season no no let's not do it let's wait until May the 1st and if they're in with a shout we might tentatively throw it out there then then and only then yeah yeah But you know what, though?

56:08I think it does really benefit Atleti when there's so much hype going on elsewhere. Barcelona, with all of the drama that's been happening there and the stuff that's been going on around Madrid. I don't know. We talked about this on the show before this season, but it felt like the extremes to which certain teams started the season before they're normalising felt quite big for a lot of teams this season. like Atleti had their worst start to the season under Simeone. Before then, all of a sudden, they're three points off top and they've only lost one game in the league this season, which is kind of wild.

56:41It's funny because I look at those leagues and you look at them and you think, for example, the top four, you think, okay, I can imagine there's going to be two of the traditional favourites in the top four, right? But the other two, I don't really know. And I can say that from across the leagues, like it wouldn't be weird. I think anyone of Arsenal, I think Arsenal at the moment, City or Chelsea. And then I could easily imagine, for example, like two other teams you wouldn't fancy there. Not fancies, I don't like them, but in terms of like teams you would not expect to be there, ending up there.

57:14And looking beyond that, like the top eight in each of those leagues is going to look super interesting this year. Because we're expecting, it's the thing, the old cliche, oh, so-and-so is going to go on a run at a certain point. But I'm like, well, what if they don't? Because the thing you said, just to conclude all of this with the league being that tough I think there's a thing where clubs think oh we can get it together and get back in there and actually maybe you won't get back in there maybe the door's shut on you for a couple of years looking forward to that I agree yeah a quick shout before we get out of here the MLS final is set it's going to take place in Miami it's going to be into Miami against Vancouver Whitecaps into Miami dispatching New York City FC 5-1 and Vancouver getting past San Diego 3-1 but that's a hell of an inaugural season for San Diego very good indeed 6th December the final will take place at Chase Stadium Messi against Muller Messi's in the mood alright let's get out of here we hope everyone is staying safe and well wherever you are don't forget London listeners go and get those tickets for the South Bank Thursday this Thursday we're going to be there the link is in the description also if you want to listen to every Stadio episode ad free and in full go to patreon.com forward slash Stadio one more show or two more shows this week we shall see we might have to skip Friday because of it's going to be the night after the Southbound but we'll see we'll try and get a little show up on Friday but we'll be back on Wednesday and until then don't forget to check the Stadio Archers place on Spotify speaking of which playing out on Photon by the Chicago Bad Boys anything you'd like to add Moose or Gwanga?

59:01Nothing further Alright everyone much love back with you on Wednesday See you then

59:26Thank you.

59:55Thank you.

1:00:36We'll see you next time.