City win the Manchester derby, more questions for Amorim and a wild derby d’Italia

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1:03Musa Okwonga: hello and welcome back to the stadio podcast i'm musuk wonga i'm ryan hun ryan how you doing

1:07Ryan Hunn: yeah doing all right thanks man how are you i'm good in the grand scheme of things and as ever on this podcast we move forwards yeah we hope everyone's staying safe and well yeah yeah a couple of bits of admin yes first of all stadio live at the south bank center south bank we've announced two shows one in december one in march tickets are on sale check the link in the description also if you haven't already why don't you become a stadio member on patreon two options if you just want to listen to the podcast and that's it we have a membership for podcasts six pound a month for all of the podcasts or you get a 15 discount if you sign up for a year or if you want to become a stadio social club member where you can get all of the podcasts plus access to the stadio discord the membership pack if you sign up for a year on the discord we have chat going on we have some like audio hangouts we've got a load of other perks coming up you get advanced tickets for live shows there'll be like merch and all this kind of stuff if you want to sign up for that and you sign up for a year it works out just less than 10 or a month we'd love to get to a thousand members soon be incredible we launched four weeks ago today and we'd love to get up to a thousand members so if you haven't signed up already please go to patreon.com forward slash studio come join us we'd love that we'd appreciate that any other admin oh yeah one thing actually i would love to shout out and um unfortunately was a little bit late for us to get involved this year but can we just shout out the calm zone calm great charity in the uk campaign against living miserably they have a month-long event going on called stay tuned where they've actually partnered up with a load of podcasts scroobius pip is one of them yeah top man um so if you go to the calm zone.net forward slash events forward slash stay hyphen tuned or just go to the events page and find it on there.

2:55Ryan Hunn: There's loads of podcasts that are raising money throughout this month. Yeah, I just wanted to shout it out because just a great charity.

3:02Musa Okwonga: Yeah, very much so.

3:04Ryan Hunn: All right then, man. So today we're going to talk about a couple of derbies. We're going to talk about the Manchester derby. We're going to talk about the Derby d 'Italia. And we'll do a quick bit of roundup. Champions League's back this week as well. So we're going to do Wednesday and Friday on the Champions League shows this week. we're not going to do Thursday and also you don't want shows every day. Some do.

3:23Musa Okwonga: Some do.

3:26Ryan Hunn: So we'll do Wednesday and Friday this week because we've got the three-day Champions League week.

3:32Musa Okwonga: Yes.

3:32Ryan Hunn: But there is only one place to begin today.

3:37Musa Okwonga: I'm not falling for this. I'm not falling for this.

3:41Ryan Hunn: There's only one place to begin.

3:42Musa Okwonga: No, I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it.

3:45Ryan Hunn: You don't have any idea where it might be. It's not that I don't have any idea.

3:49Musa Okwonga: I've had my heart broken too many times. No, go on. No, I'm not doing it.

3:55Ryan Hunn: Just try it. Try it. See if you get somewhere near.

4:03Ryan Hunn: Darmstadt 2. Braunschweig 1. Oh, no. The place to begin this week is 1860 Munich 3. Oh, no. TSV Halverzer 2. because goals and red cards and a 96 minute winner for 1860 Kevin Volland opened the scoring no way and then got sent off later in the game oh incredible he's got all the feels yeah it should have been me not him it should have been me go and check the highlights if you want to 90 plus 6 winner

4:39Musa Okwonga: for 1860 love that

4:41Ryan Hunn: 10 player 1860

4:43Musa Okwonga: it's incredible it's incredible of work. You've got social dialed in. Search is doing its thing. So why do your marketing results look the same as six months ago? That's because you're fishing in the same pond as everyone else. Podcast listeners are a different audience entirely, more engaged, harder to reach through traditional channels, and ready to act when someone they trust makes a recommendation. We're Acast, and we put them right in front of you. Browse thousands of the world's leading podcasts, book host reads, or run your own ads and track every conversion in real time same skills you already have brand new results a cast a cast.com slash advertise but let's go to manchester manchester derby began in a very

5:31Ryan Hunn: somber mood because the news broke not long before kickoff that manchester legend ricky hatton had passed away 46 years old so sad what what a life what a human i know yeah yeah yeah

5:42Musa Okwonga: There was a minute's applause before. But Pep looked quite emotional as well. Because these people, they get to know each other, right? It's such a small world in elite sport. Someone always knows someone who knows someone. For example, if you're going to a match or a fight, you can reach out on WhatsApp and within half a day, you'll have a reply back from someone. And that community.

6:00Ryan Hunn: And I mean, especially back in Ricky Hatton's prime when he was... Dude, iconic. Being a high-profile City fan then. Incredible.

6:08Musa Okwonga: He embodied it. he spoke this is the thing about it's very rare that somebody it's one thing achieving what he achieved but then to transcend it and to embody like a city in many ways it's incredible who he was what he was and those those were not 46 ordinary years right like that if you look at like what he endured as a human being the time the things he went through his successes is disappointments. Well, I mean, that's, it's some legacy and such a tragedy. And you're right, it really, you know, even when the chat broke, even the news broke in the chat for us, we were like, you know, we're not directly connected to this and it was still terrible news.

6:50Musa Okwonga: And you're right. And the match, I think, began framed by that. Obviously, there was a great pre-match tribute from both teams and spectators. And I mean, the game itself, it feels like a footnote in relation to that but it very much wasn't it was the Manchester derby between the Manchester City side that's still finding its barriers I think it's fair to say two teams in transition City running out 3-0 winners and I'll say this and again because I'm a football fan first the two things I was really happy for the two players I was really happy for in particular Phil Foden and Jeremy Doku I feel like Jeremy Doku's emergence you know brilliant winger great one-on-one situations with a final product I feel like there was like 20 % more from him last year that he didn't fully kick on and it's a difficult place it's a difficult place to be a winger at Man City and some very good players have come and gone without fully making their impact Savinho being just one of them who looks like he might be on his way out at some point and Docker was just was tremendous to set the tone in attack and Phil Foden in central areas looked as comfortable as he's looked in a while and it was great to see him in the mix.

8:03Musa Okwonga: I mean, there's something very old school about Foden Haaland scoring all the goals for City in a derby. And Haaland involved a lot more. I mean, this is something we've seen just in general this season already. Haaland involved a lot more in build-up play. It's a part of his game that I think he enjoys. And I think for his, there was a thing where City were using Haaland a bit like the Golden State Warriors are using Kevin Durant at some point. Just like, get to your spots, we'll feed you. but I think he likes being involved in the flow of offence he likes being involved in the flow of the attack in a game like this against United I mean it was 3-0 but it could have been 6 but there was really a point at which I thought when they went 3-0 up I was like you know those last 20 minutes when teams like United can disintegrate because the confidence isn't what it used to be I thought this could be 4-5 or 6 here

8:53Ryan Hunn: The weirdest thing about this game was United had more possessions though

8:56Musa Okwonga: Oh no, it's hilarious isn't it?

8:58Ryan Hunn: In that sense Some of the statistical breakdown It's a funny one really because I feel like I don't think United were that bad.

9:05Musa Okwonga: They were fragile, right?

9:07Ryan Hunn: Yeah. City basically just pounced and when they pounced, it wasn't too easy. But it was, I don't know. I said in the Stadio Discord that I feel like it's hard to take too many definitives from this game. Because I remember watching the episode we did after the Manchester derby last season, the last one, which was 0-0, wasn't it? and it wasn't a great game but there were definitely signs there for United. We were like, oh, this looks like there's actually some positives to take for United. And you've got a glimpse of the ideas that Ruben Amorim wants to put in there in the future. And it's felt like a bit of a trend for Manchester United in games against what you would put on paper as like tougher teams.

9:47Ryan Hunn: Yes. They've actually impressed more than they would against opposition that you would expect them to beat convincingly. And Kyle mentioned something where it was, you know, he was like, you know, they want to bait the opposition into the press a little bit. And that works a lot better for teams who are used to having the ball and like teams who are going to want to beat teams as opposed to teams who are safety first. Also, you also need better passers for it.

10:12Musa Okwonga: True, yeah. To bait a team into a press, to take advantage of that, you need like, you need like a Vertinha, you need like a João Neves, you need a Fabian Ruiz. And the distribution they have to spring the trap, you saw that a lot on the opening stages of this game quite scrappy those exchanges and it's because actually a lot of the execution you can see the ideas that United have but they if you're baiting teams into that the margin for error you have is so small because what if the press actually works and if you see the goals that United conceded particularly the third one you're creating a problem if you're baiting a team into a press like City you're creating problems you don't actually really want like and if there's anything I can say in United's defence in relation to this fixture, the injuries they had are the worst possible injuries for this fixture.

10:59Musa Okwonga: Like, because the gap between Manchester United's first 11 and its bench is quite significant. So when you've got like, let's say, Masraoui, where you would have had Diogo Dalot. Masraoui's a good defender, right? But attacking sense, not that good. Not that good. You've got Luke Shaw there in the left side of a back three where Martinez could have been. Does that make sense? So the problem is you're putting pressure on a back line that can't necessarily sustain it at close quarters, whether it's for physical reasons or technical reasons. Again, I like this in theory. I like what United are doing in theory, but again, you know, games are played in practice.

11:39Ryan Hunn: I think from a City point of view, sometimes just derbies happen like this as well, right? And I don't think Pep is going to come away from that being like, yeah, we're fine now, we're completely fixed. I think there were some really good moments, like from a Man City perspective, before we'd go more on Manchester United, because I do think there has been more discussion around Manchester United after this game but Rodri getting more minutes I think was really good for Manchester City and he looks like he's not quite there but he's getting there No, no, no that's right You mentioned Foden I think Foden's performance was really good because well really a real positive for Manchester City because it had been looking a little like where's he going to play now?

12:13Ryan Hunn: Like where's he going to be? I thought Reinders was also good should have scored

12:18Musa Okwonga: should have scored Yes

12:20Ryan Hunn: and then obviously Haaland just capping off like an unbelievable international break for him as well. He should have had three. He should have had a hat trick. So I think for Pep, with the injuries that they have, because they had a lot of people out, I think for Pep to come through this so convincingly and keep a clean sheet because City have been looking a little bit leaky, that was a big thing. Because United had two big chances, I think. Mbumo had one. Maybe he had both of them. I can't remember who had the second one. But two good chances. Not the one that volley that was saved by Donnarumma, which was...

12:51Ryan Hunn: That's not a good chance. that's just an unbelievable execution but yeah I think in terms of bar maybe a couple more goals to make this a real real like statement victory to use your term I don't think it could have gone any better for City but from a United point of view it's interesting how it seems to have like ramped up pressure on Ruben Amarim even more yes and I'm wondering why necessarily that is and I don't think it was specifically to do with this game I think it's been an accumulation of certain results I don't think Ruben Amaram

13:31Musa Okwonga: understands the noise and what I mean by this is he doesn't understand the noise so coming out in an interview I think the conversation at Kobi Menuh pre-match about he's not used to fighting for his place like he's an academy product who's come through to the first at Manchester United I think he I think he knows what it means to fight for his place and you know when you have like Cole Palmer on Instagram going like, you know, free my boy, get my guy out of there. Like when you have that, because that's, that's somebody, that's someone who's in touch with Kobe menu. That is someone who is aware of what's in his headspace.

14:03Musa Okwonga: This isn't, Kobe menu has not been running around like a spoiled child at United. This is a player who is challenged by a, by a three, four, three system. And frankly, who isn't because it's a difficult system to play, especially with a back three that keeps rotating. Sometimes an Amram says stuff. I'm like, that should have stayed in the drafts. because what it does is it creates conversation and it becomes a load-bearing structure, right? Conversation around Manchester United, it's global and it's incessant. And there are just some narratives you don't need taking hold. You don't need those.

14:34Musa Okwonga: And also, I'm not sure, I'm not convinced if you look at what's happening in Manchester United and the performances of the players, Amarim has had long enough in the job now to know and to see the results of, is it benefiting my players' performances when I talk like this? it's not and it has to change like i i think he has to adapt to that i really think and he might say well look i've been successful doing it this way i'm dogmatic i no i think it is a road to failure to proceed in that way that's why there's so much of this talk and after the grimsby performance look i'm sympathetic to wanting to bounce back um to wanting to try different things but the the performance united put together and he can argue that injuries have forced his hand in certain ways.

15:21Musa Okwonga: I think they invited so much pressure. Having Mas Rowie on that right flank, the problem with that is, and some might say Ahmad as a right wing back, it's not the way forward. But my personal opinion is, if you look at that flank, you're thinking, this team is not going to hurt us in an attacking sense from the flank. So here is an invitation. And it's no coincidence that problems are coming down that flank. It's no coincidence. and if you look at what City set up with what I loved for their attackers they had Bernardo Silva who is not the most enterprising winger at this point but he kind of holds that one wing with the possession and then Dockers allowed to go and cook I want to stay on City a bit because there were some other performances I thought were really really useful in the mix from them and I want to give them their credit Ruben Diaz was decent Kusanov I liked him I thought O 'Reilly at left back was fantastic so much presence I'm really excited for the player he's going to become and just City looked like, you know, just a team.

16:20Musa Okwonga: I still think they're a cut below Liverpool and Arsenal. I think they're in that chasing pack, but they're very firmly in the chasing pack. And it's early days, but I like the options they've got and I liked how they controlled the game at points against United.

16:39Ryan Hunn: Yeah, I mean, I think the most interesting takeaway for me was how different this Manchester City looked compared to what you would imagine, you know, technically what a Guardiola side looks like, right? We've had this conversation a little bit how Pep has evolved over the years. You have to, I think, to stay as relevant as Pep has and as successful as Pep has over the years. And, you know, Donnarumma coming in was a bit like, this doesn't seem like a Pep keeper. He made some really, really good saves that anyone who isn't as tall as he is, which everyone that seemed to be the theme of the week just people talking about how tall Donnarumma is but you know for example I think the Mbumo one is a save that Donnarumma makes and maybe Edison doesn't maybe or maybe he does like I don't know but there seemed to be more talk now about kind of you know this is a transition for City and Pep talked about it afterwards about how many players they'd lost in the summer that had been real staples of that side yes yes he said something quite interesting I thought and it was a bit of just a throwaway comment but he said you know we had talks about like who we want to be I thought that was quite interesting because it's rare that you hear

17:51Musa Okwonga: little things like that from yeah yeah you never really hear works in progress you never really

17:54Ryan Hunn: hear it and he was like not how we want to play but like who we want to be that's interesting because that is something where you don't have the people there who dictate who you are anymore you actually have to open up a discussion to be like who are we now who do we want to be yeah the interesting thing for me about this game as a neutral was that you did have this direct comparison there with Manchester United where it feels like those conversations maybe aren't happening and maybe they are maybe I'm completely wrong but if you look at some of the stuff that's going on with Manchester United and I know that Ruben Amarim has the system and we rate him very highly as a coach that's not in doubt at all but the one thing that has started to creep into my mind a little bit is just more like how important is a philosophy if you don't get yourself in a position to execute it and I feel like any manager gets this with Arteta right when you know when Arteta got time and look what happened I think the thing that people forget about Arteta was that former captain blah blah blah he comes in with a lot of goodwill like for example if Amarum had played for United for 10 years or 5 years or whatever and been captain of the club the discussion around him is different but Arteta went to a back 3 early on in his Arsenal career it's not how he wants to play but it was a bit like this is how we're going to play for the moment until we get into a position and we have the personnel that we can expand and play the way that we really want to play.

19:16Ryan Hunn: With Ruben Amorim, I still think he's the one to stick with at Manchester United because I'm not really sure who you would get. But the thing that is a little bit of a worry is like I get how wedded to the idea he is, but I think he needs to do more in terms of getting Manchester United into a position where he can really roll that out because I don't think that they're there yet. and it's not necessarily the back three that's the problem. I think it's in front of that. It's the structure. It's the structure.

19:42Musa Okwonga: But didn't I say this, I don't know if I said this a few weeks ago, but like when I look at those midfield options, I don't see a team rising above mid table because I don't see a combination of midfielders that can control games, that can control games. Like I think, you know, Kobi Meynu, not naive about what he has in terms of development right ahead of him, but that's natural. like he's a young footballer. But I look at the other options and I think how many of them hurt you with their passing from deep? Bruno Financi, look, the best thing about him is the kind of the chaos he brings. He's not someone you want in a deep lying role because you lose his strengths.

20:24Musa Okwonga: And then you look at Paul Seshko who's up there now, like I don't know where Seshko felt the supply would come from. I think it's a huge club and you're honoured to join Manchester United and he's a young player. But I really, really worry about, even at this early stage, him having a difficult season where people go, oh, this guy isn't quality. He is. But you need to have someone on his shoulder putting the ball into his feet. Now, Mbumo was one of the few bright spots in this game. I love the fact this guy is fearless, relentless, is always up for it, unafraid. He reminded me a bit of like, you know, Rooney.

20:58Musa Okwonga: Rooney and those derbies, those forlorn derbies, United getting cooked. And Rooney just like pops up and rattles in a free kick with 10 minutes to go. It will be like 4-0 down or something. You have the personalities in that dressing room to do something decent. And again, I reiterate, you have Mason Mount out injured. I think he's a big, big aspect. He's a big part of this for United. But in terms of that midfield area, there's just no protection. There's no protection for that back line. And the back line itself, again, then look, let's be charitable. There are injuries. There are other problems, there are other issues.

21:37Musa Okwonga: But I don't know how many more, not to be dramatic at this early stage, but I don't know how many more weeks of this there are. Let me step back a bit. Let's look at this four months from now. Let's assume that Amarim stays there until Christmas or after. Players come back from injury. We're going to need some breakout performances. And I don't mean like thrashing certain teams. I just mean beating a mid-table team, 3-1, where everyone just looks good and locked in.

22:14Ryan Hunn: Yeah, we talked about that Burnley result, didn't we? And we were like, that kind of needs to just be quite calm. And it wasn't. You see what I mean? Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Everything's a bit too stressful. I mean, they've got Chelsea at Old Trafford on Saturday.

22:24Musa Okwonga: And Chelsea, who have their own challenges, let's be clear. They've got their own, you know, stuff to work through.

22:27Ryan Hunn: Yeah, I mean, they struggled against Brentford. They did, yeah. Brentford with a great late equaliser on Friday. It was a fun game, actually, to watch. But, you know, Cole Palmer, coming back from injury, came on, scored. Should have had a second, actually.

22:39Musa Okwonga: Neto looked good again, but just unbiased, because I think he's a great player.

22:43Ryan Hunn: But, yeah, I mean, that's going to be an interesting one at Old Trafford, because I think, like, yeah, Chelsea figuring it out. There's a lot of people figuring it out in the league at the moment, which I think contributes to, with things like Manchester United, it's a big club, and the discussion can be quite dominated about their struggles if it's not working, right? The thing about City winning as comfortable as they did, this was the kind of result you'd expect from City at their peak, right?

23:09Musa Okwonga: Like City at their peak, you get cooked. This is what happens because they're brilliant. They're a PEPs team. They're like immovable object. And that's all good, actually, in its own way, because that just represents where they are when United are. this is not City and their pump and they walked it that is the concern right a City team in transition should not be handling a United team with that level of ease it just shouldn't be the way or the case I think that is also primarily I think it's on Amarim in terms of coaching I also think it's a recruitment issue I do think it's a recruitment issue because not wanting to isolate or identify people you know call people out but I think even player for player in terms of depth there is a gap between United and City and that's accumulated over years but I don't think it was necessarily helped this summer United made signings in attack but midfield it's bizarre it's truly bizarre to me that Manchester United just don't go out and sign and this is it's like the Fabian Ruiz conversation right I think Manchester United sometimes they turn their noses up at players who really can fix them or address parts of the squad centrally really quite easily.

24:27Musa Okwonga: And I don't know what it is. You know, the United thing and like, you know, signing players in midfield, I think it's overconfidence actually. Sometimes you've got to make the signings that are, that are boring. That seem boring. Like Fabian Ruiz, people, I remember, I talked about him for years, a huge fan of his, all the work he was doing. But I think people found him underwhelming and I'm like, that guy is, sometimes it is that simple. If you're going to bring people in the plug a gap, then that's what you do. That's what you do. There's no way United would have signed a Granit Xhaka and people are laughing at me even saying that, but that is actually, in terms of a squad player as an option, that's the kind of person you need to look at.

25:11Musa Okwonga: That's the profile of player, someone who can control a midfield from the base or a Robert Andrick, for example that just comes in and does a job and it's not always about bells and whistles with United like when they made some of these signings it was like oh he's high profile oh he crashes into tackles no sometimes you just need someone to like just regulate the ball and keep it moving forward and coming through gaps

25:33Ryan Hunn: he's not going to go right they're not going to fire him are they

25:35Musa Okwonga: I don't think so I don't know what's going on United but look if he I think nothing would surprise me really if he continues in his job can I just the one thing I would be critical of at this point is and I get the injuries where I said just be aware of the noise because I don't think it's helping. Does that make sense? That's all I'll be critical of. If I had two minutes to talk to someone I'd be like this stuff keeps rattling around. No one needs it. You don't need it. The players don't need it. That's it really. And also there are other teams in this league who are quietly having worrying, worrying.

26:08Musa Okwonga: I mean Aston Villa yikes. Everyone's working it out. Look, Liverpool late whenever Burnley oh Burnley oh the way they held out held out with 10 men till late late late and look people still figuring out like Florian Witt is still finding his feet you know he'll get there

26:25Ryan Hunn: I loved Arna Schlau after this did you see what he said about how he was like he was he was I really I know we've said this before I really like his interviews

26:35Musa Okwonga: yeah

26:36Ryan Hunn: he was talking about Burnley and he made a point of being like he was like look it's very difficult to play against a Premier League side when they have 11 people in the box and then he realised he was like that's not a criticism by the way that's what they have to do and they did it really well and we were kind of thinking it's a point right yeah so he made a point of saying that and he's like but look it's the Premier League and there's you know you can get a chance and there's a foot here and a foot there and he was just like yeah so a bit lucky but you know he's so matter of fact with it I really like it

27:05Musa Okwonga: and Hannibal Hannibal Mejry's face when he conceded the penalty a guy that came up for the Manchester Academy and the look on his face like he was devastated yeah it's just one of those

27:17Ryan Hunn: where it's like your body just does it and you just can't stop it

27:20Musa Okwonga: and yeah and it was late in the game like he wasn't tired like he he'd been on for half an hour it's not that it's just like the mental energy of just like having to withstand all of that yeah and like you know he's not a centre back you know so all of that is yeah but really really good late win for Liverpool because the chasing pack were on them Arsenal against Nottingham Forest. I've got to say this. This is maybe a tumbleweed result. It's so funny because Arsenal get a result like this that everyone can praise. But it was too calm. It was too calm.

27:56Ryan Hunn: Look, I said the other day, I said, look, Andrew's first game in charge, lunchtime kickoff after an international break. I was like, this is going to be pain. And I think luckily enough, Arsenal were decent. There was like one moment of it getting a bit touchy at the end of the first half when Morgan Gibbs-White had that effort that went wide. But other than that, I think Arsenal were... were really good. And also, just massive positives. An entirely new front three all arrived in the summer

28:19Musa Okwonga: and looked really good.

28:21Ryan Hunn: Really good. I thought Eze looked good. Maduweke is...

28:24Musa Okwonga: Flying. He's flying. He's flying. I saw someone post just being like, I can't believe Chelsea sold him to us. Look, I've, you know, I've backed certain players in the past and I have maybe a patchy record, but Maduweke is a player whose quality I was always convinced of. He's been brilliant for England. He just seems to be someone who took off just like yeah I can trust that guy and just put him wherever probably haven't played against a 10 at some point you know in some late stages of games against certain opposition he can play anywhere centrally he can play wide and I said this I think maybe in the chat but when people start reading his cutbacks things are going to pop off because he is so good to get into that spot and then like almost like sort of in hockey like you know like just cutting it right back into the center he was excellent Yorcares was great too Eze just smooth as anything Zubimendi coming up with the bangers

29:18Ryan Hunn: and also aerial threat aerial threat Zubimendi I think that's the first time he's ever scored a brace in his career apparently

29:24Musa Okwonga: so good

29:24Ryan Hunn: he was loving it loving the parts of it you mentioned like earlier about the the Bernardo Silva Jeremy Docku on those like contrasting wings I think there's something similar going on with this attack at Arsenal and how you know Madueke is very very direct and will want to go go go he said afterwards he's like that's kind of the only way that I would know how to play whereas Eze likes to kind of ghost a bit glide a bit come inside he's more central and I think it just all worked really well like Eze setting up the Ocaray's goal was just lovely but the person I want to shout out is Christian Mosquera

29:58Musa Okwonga: yes fabulous player

30:00Ryan Hunn: I didn't think it was possible to replace William Saliba with anyone remotely as chill

30:07Musa Okwonga: no noise everyone else in that midfield is like everyone else that's a defence sorry is quite busy they're quite extra

30:18Musa Okwonga: yeah you go and have fun but no he's really good he was really good having him and super mendy in those deep areas dropping in alongside sometimes just building the play he was he was superb i mean to be honest he looked great from the first game he came on for you guys yeah

30:31Ryan Hunn: uh let's shout out a couple of other results very very quickly uh bournemouth being brighton 2-1

30:35Musa Okwonga: great win for them bournemouth looking good again nick voltamada scored his first goal for he looked amazing in this kit didn't he so at home so at home i don't know if i was clear enough about how much i loved this signing like how much i love him as a player i i thought he a superb footballer and even people i'm not gonna name names individuals going oh oh not so good in the air i'm like this man was cooking this man was cooking i think maybe it's because he was doing for the 21s right but the technique doesn't need to be so good in the air he's massive it also but also his aerial technique it was the timing like he's not just someone who is just a big guy you lump up to the timing of his jump the hang time the angles of the headers like all of that but as someone that has a game like even just just the combination play the thing about voltamada i think his heading gets criticized because he does so many other things well and they're like oh he can do that too well yeah like beautiful and build-up play can drop wide chases presses doesn't just occupy the centre circle, like, you know, it doesn't just occupy the centre of the box, the six-yard box, actually drifts out to the flanks and is just a dream to play with.

31:47Musa Okwonga: And the thing about that Newcastle attack, the irony, of course, of Ezek's departure was that it had never been better suited for an Ezek's style standard forward to be there. But actually, you've got a guy with a very broad skill set there who, frankly, if Newcastle played his strengths, he is going to feast this season.

32:06Ryan Hunn: It's going to be interesting to see what they're like when Anthony Gordon comes back in. You mentioned aerial threat. Lucas Bergwahl with a great header against West Ham. Van Persie style.

32:16Musa Okwonga: So Van Persie style. Van Persie style the floating header on the run. We'd love to see that. Really good win that. Kouros getting dragged by the home card.

32:27Ryan Hunn: He was fine with it though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sar opened the scoring for Spurs just after half time. Bergwahl 10 minutes later and then Mickey Van de Ven with the third. Suchek got sent off about 10 minutes into the second half for a nasty tackle.

32:40Musa Okwonga: Yeah.

32:40Ryan Hunn: But yeah, very, very impressive from Spurs. Thomas Frank doing work. Yeah. Yeah. More pressure on Graham Potter, but we'll see. They've got Palace at home next. Good point. Good point for Sunderland. Seven points from their opening four games. They've only lost at Burnley, which felt weird. Quietly cooking there. Yeah. Everton and Villa drawing 0-0 as well on Saturday. Again, that's a good...

33:06Musa Okwonga: And just not to skip over that for Everton. They've had a really great start too. Yeah, very good. Good point for them. Yeah, I mean Villa just... Villa haven't scored yet. They've joined the new stadium. Villa haven't scored. No, that's weird. Yeah, that's to be something to return to. I mean, again, look, it's four games in its early days, but that's a bleak start.

33:25Ryan Hunn: Fulham got the first win of the season, late win over Leeds, thanks to a Goodmanson own goal in the 94th minute.

33:31Musa Okwonga: Is that all the Premier League? It is all the Premier League, but it's not all the late drama. Segway. Oh. Juventus Inter.

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34:23Ryan Hunn: Let's go to the Darby Detalia. Let's do it. Quite possibly the best use of RefCam so far, capturing the Turan brothers.

34:31Musa Okwonga: that was hilarious that whole little yeah just like they're both just like what

34:36Ryan Hunn: he told me to do it he did it first

34:41Musa Okwonga: but Catherine is so extra he's so extra actually so let's on this game so Derby d 'Italia you had Juventus and Inter going head to head Inter actually Inter actually not not with the greatest start to this season but two clubs we expect to be in and around the mix when it comes to at the end of the season. Maybe that's premature, actually, as a judgment. We'll talk about Inter in a sec. But Juventus 4, Inter 3, absolutely thrilling game of football. So good. The first half was amazing. It was amazing. Well, the second half was just as good, but the first half was great. The amazing about this game, as it proceeded, was Inter played a lot of the football, but Juve got the treats.

35:25Musa Okwonga: Like, if you saw what Inter were doing, right? And this is the thing, the concern for Inter, right? this is a load-bearing midfield and a lot of the burden is falling on Barella. Like because, and this is not a knock on Mkhitaryan or Chalinalu, right? They're just not as mobile. Even though Chalinalu scored twice, the thing is, it's not what he does when he's on the ball, it's the out of the possession stuff. Now understand that these players don't have the legs of the younger players around them, but what that does is it makes them strangely predictable, Inter. So you know where the threats are coming from.

35:53Musa Okwonga: You know who the fire starter is going to be. So Barella, as good as he was, as busy as he was, was doing a lot of running around, but the space that was being left by the two interplayers that weren't pressing that midfield in Amicatel and Charnolou was being frequently exploited. And it felt like whenever Juventus wanted to get forward, whenever they wanted to get into their pockets and find their spots, they found them. And this was a continual problem. And I think it's why, you know, Lautaro went off quite early, but I'm not going to be, I'm not inclined to blame him so much as the structure because he couldn't really get the ball into his feet.

36:26Musa Okwonga: there wasn't that much dynamic movement around him if it wasn't coming from Barella in the central areas it wasn't coming from anybody and Juve saw that and Tudor saw that like who's had a really good start to his time at Juventus coach and they just picked them off

36:40Ryan Hunn: yeah surprising actually I didn't expect it to be I was surprised as well but how did you see the from an entertainment point of view I thought it was great yeah the stats for this game were really wild so there were eight combined shots on target seven goals and a combined XG of 1.64.

37:01Musa Okwonga: That's absolutely wild.

37:03Ryan Hunn: Yeah. Neither side had an XG

37:04Musa Okwonga: of above what? Eight shots on target, seven goals. Absolutely wild. Absolutely wild.

37:09Ryan Hunn: Juve scored with all of their four goals on target. Inter scored with three of their four. And I think that was just a testament to the goals, right? Because the goals were like maybe apart from Lloyd, was it Lloyd Kelly's opener? But it was just scramble in the box. Ball fell, just like bam, goes in. but then the rest of them were all either like bangers or speculative. Jan Sommer probably, I think.

37:35Musa Okwonga: The last one, the last one.

37:37Ryan Hunn: Well, I actually think the, who, I think it was the, I think it was the Yieldis one. So the Yieldis one, because he's running back to his own goal, right? And I think, being nitpicky, I think he maybe takes three or four steps too much back because he gets right back on his goal line. And I think if he stops and sets earlier, he probably gets a stronger hand to that and keeps it out because he's got more of the angle to worry about. But he's worried so much about going over him that he gets almost right back on his line. And I think that extra split second or half a second stops him from getting his feet set early and then stops him probably from saving it because he does get a hand to it.

38:18Musa Okwonga: The only reason I'm going to be charitable to that one, I'm more critical of the one he conceded later on. the only reason I'm more charitable of that one is it is the first time Juventus came at him in a central area it's the first clean look they had like it's the first time the yield is actually comes inside and it's weird looking at Yielders's numbers I thought he had the ball twice as much as he actually had it he didn't actually have that much of the ball it's really interesting he was just very economical and very effective but when he gets the ball in that pocket with like what five minutes to go over the first half it is the first time the Juventus players had a clean look.

38:50Musa Okwonga: This is the amazing thing about this game, right? You have only like, you have seven goals, only one striker actually scores. Both strikers are kind of like, in open play, both sets of strikers are kind of ineffectual. There's something, and I think it's because both teams are actually quite good. You know, we criticise United having that gap between the, not really like protecting the defence. actually although Inter weren't the best going forward they were quite good at protecting like the defenders relatively speaking so if you look at the quality of the goals it almost speaks to that like Chalanoly yeah there was no one

39:30Ryan Hunn: like breaking through there was no one on ones there was no one slicing everyone open yeah

39:34Musa Okwonga: right absolutely absolutely and it was just it was really funny that it was defenders for the most part getting the job done in this game or midfielders for that matter the game goes to I mean for those who re-watch it I mean, we can't recap every goal because frankly, we'd be here all...

39:48Ryan Hunn: The two Chalanoly goals though were... Unreal. The second one was... The first one was spectacular. And I was glad that he got that

39:56Musa Okwonga: because I thought to myself, the only way you're going to open up this Juventus, the way they're playing, they're stepping up well, is going to be a strike from distance, I think. But the second one? The chest, and he's going away from goal. It's unreal. He only scores bangers, man.

40:11Ryan Hunn: Bangers only, do you know what? Stadio merch, that should be bangers only. bangers only yeah absolutely bangers only 11 um yeah yeah a great game i think uh juventus coming through in style yeah yeah and also shout out to adzic

40:26Musa Okwonga: balka midfielder montenegro boy coming on and scoring an absolute beauty from distance summer give me that could have done better but still like he had that from a long way out from a long way out yeah yeah um so maximum points for uve from their opening three games

40:43Ryan Hunn: and last thing on the game

40:44Musa Okwonga: the most important thing if we may contrast the celebrations Marcus Taram the respectable elder statesman of the brothers scoring not celebrating keeping it muted and Kefran was like nah

40:54Ryan Hunn: no they did the same it was they did the same thing that was the thing like it was so Taram does the weird thing where he does it like he's a point and there's a point and then he does the little like shakes the shirt to see like look Taram on the back then Kefran does the same thing and it's like literally so extra

41:09Musa Okwonga: so extra

41:10Ryan Hunn: and then someone else did it I was like there's a lot of pointing going on in these celebrations a lot of temples the way that marcus marcus does it and

41:16Musa Okwonga: it's just like it's quite like statesman like right but kevin does up to 11 it's very much

41:20Ryan Hunn: a younger brother like yeah but yeah so rightly so so yeah like why wouldn't he do you know you're

41:28Musa Okwonga: making me laugh because i can't remember who it was but someone said in the um in the discourse someone said oh this game was like it was too chaotic for me and i thought to myself do you understand how chaotic a game has to be too chaotic for someone in here incorrect anyway but yeah anyway but Juventus look a really great win for them and they needed that because Napoli are just floating they're levitating shout out to Rasmus Hoyland who scored on his debut for Napoli and just really happy for that guy man like

41:59Ryan Hunn: Andre Onana I think he was player of the game for the Fenerbahce Trabsonsport game even though they lost 1-0 but they were down to 10 and he made it

42:07Musa Okwonga: Face like 20-odd shots.

42:09Ryan Hunn: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

42:09Musa Okwonga: Yeah, yeah. A very good week for Man United alumni.

42:13Ryan Hunn: The way that Scott McTominay went up to Rasmus Hoyland was just like, don't worry, man, you're here now. Yeah. Don't worry about it. Listen, Cobby, if you want that loan.

42:23Musa Okwonga: Look, honestly, that...

42:24Ryan Hunn: You know what? Not a bad shout.

42:26Musa Okwonga: Listen, Cobby Maynard in the Napoli midfield.

42:27Ryan Hunn: Let's dart around a couple of other bits before we go. In Germany, St. Paulie's best ever start to a Bundesliga season. Fabulous. They came from a goal down to beat Augsburg at the Millentor on Sunday. They are currently fourth after three games. Seven points. They're really looking at home, aren't they? They are. They go to Stuttgart next week. I think it's Friday, which is going to be a really, really good game because Stuttgart are wobbling a little bit. They lost to Freiburg on the weekend and they've lost two of their opening three games. If St. Pauli can come away with something there, then yeah, proper.

43:06Ryan Hunn: they're level on points with Köln who drew 3-0 against Wolfsburg in probably the Bundesliga game of the weekend Maxi Arnold thought he'd scored a 99th minute winner for Wolfsburg but then Kaminski was just like hold my beer 90 plus 14 was the equaliser from Köln and yeah wild game this game was actually halted for a bit because of the weather

43:29Musa Okwonga: oh what was going on there what were the elements

43:30Ryan Hunn: just absolutely hammering down I think it was some thunder and lightning as well because on the conference it was wild because everywhere else looked really sunny it was just absolutely pissing out in Wolfsburg elsewhere Bayern hammering Haas foul 5-0 they were 4-0 by half time and they just took the foot off the gas in the second half Haas foul no goals no points so far it's going to be tricky this isn't the game to judge them on I mean you look what happens in Leipzig in the first game of the season but one to keep an eye on they've got Heidenheim at home next week and I think that's going to be they need to get something out of that game I think yeah that's the Heidenheim yeah frankly yeah it's actually a really really important game that

44:05Musa Okwonga: yeah on just very quickly in Germany as well also in Germany Bayer Leverkusen beating Eindro Frankfurt 3-1 that's an impressive result just because of the Ten Hag news but already you know Hulmand first job you know first match in the job but already some positive signs there players looking happy moving with Real Enterprise and Grimaldo just scoring two bangers from free kicks always a good look when you've got something like that

44:32Ryan Hunn: yeah that was a massive win for them yeah yeah Werder Bremen beating Gladbach 4-0 and I reckon that might do it for Seouani. They haven't scored a goal and they haven't won a game so far this season.

44:44Musa Okwonga: Looking bleak over there.

44:46Ryan Hunn: Quickly elsewhere, Barcelona beat Valencia 6-0 at the Estadi-Johan Cruyff because Camp Nou is not ready yet. So they played their opening game at the Johan Cruyff but they were very, very good indeed. Yeah. Fermin Lopez got a brace, Rafinha got a brace, Lewandowski got a brace. Rafinha and Lewandowski braces off the bench but Mark Bernal returned and got an absolutely amazing reception that's huge and he set up Lewandowski's goal

45:14Musa Okwonga: wonderful wonderful player missed the whole of last year still only 18 years old and just a tremendous talent so really really excited for him and Rashford got an assist too so that's good

45:25Ryan Hunn: yeah he was actually quite good Rashford he was getting like a bit of stick on commentary he looked energetic and he was he was a problem down that left hand side There was a final pass maybe or just a final decision a couple of times. But other than that, I thought he was really good. He looked really sharp. And just another shout for Pedri, who was just unbelievable. Just levitating again. Elsewhere, Real Madrid beat Real Sociedad 2-1. Spike going down to 10 men.

45:53Musa Okwonga: Yeah, decent win that actually. Mbappe again, decisive. And Arda Goulet emerging as a real protagonist. I'm pleasantly surprised at how quickly he's become central to Madrid's plans, a player I absolutely love watching. I thought it'd be a couple of years before he got the keys, but he's got them right away. And he's 20. He's 20 and actually against Spain in the 6-0 was actually not bad.

46:24Musa Okwonga: this is the thing you know i've always said this i knew that darren fletcher was going to be good when they went to the netherlands uh um scotland they got beaten 6-0 and fletcher was brilliant in the second half and i was like if you look good in a defeat like that then you're really special and uh arde gules got the chops for sure um yeah really excited for him happy for him

46:43Ryan Hunn: and how we started this season very quickly in the wsl sam kerr returned yes after 20 months out and scored Sam Kerr was just like I'm back

46:52Musa Okwonga: good wins for some of the big teams in the WSL Manchester United beating London City Lionesses 5-1 you know the thing about the Lionesses last week was they held Arsenal well and they just really allowed United to get to open the floodgates early I think this is the thing when you start intensely around this team there's a frailty there there's a weakness there and credit to United though they didn't let up Riviere with maybe the pick of the goals outstanding strike from her and United is you know it's always difficult was the Leicester result obviously you know first game of the season difficult to assess but the way they've handled a team that Arsenal struggle to break down I look at it now and think ah like what they're going to again it's too early to work out how it's all going to shake out but I'm just trying to work out how good United are in relation to those other two teams it's still very early days but yeah

47:48Ryan Hunn: I think it's going to be difficult for London City lineups. I still don't think they're going to go down. I think those two opening games are very, very difficult. Hosting Manchester United and going away to Arsenal. Chris Gura came on and made her not full debut but came on with about 15 minutes to go. There's such a huge amount of new arrivals there. It's going to take a few games to gel. I think they're probably not going to push for Champions League or anything like that. But I don't think they're going to go down. but yeah Arsenal beating West Ham 5-1 on Friday after going down 1-0 yeah not as easy as it looked yeah weird Daphne van Domslaar like error led to their first West Ham goal but then it was quite comfortable in the end for Arsenal yeah but yeah other bits to shout out very quickly oh actually in the WSL Everton played their first home game at Goodison and there was about 6 ,500 there fantastic so yeah hopefully they'll they'll be able to start getting more there as well.

48:48Musa Okwonga: Yeah, definitely.

48:49Ryan Hunn: Quick update in League 1. PSG beat Lawns 2-0 on the weekend to maintain their 100 % start to the season. They are out in front on 12 points. Lille beat Toulouse 2-1 and they are second. Monaco beat Augsburg 2-1 away and they're third. And Lyon lost 3-1 to Rennes to end their 100 % start to the season. But they are still fourth. Level on points with Strasbourg who beat Laav. We didn't shout out Luka Modric. yes he got his winner yes who scored for Milan against Bologna the only goal of the game still doing it at 40 years old absolutely

49:27Musa Okwonga: still coming with the LinkedIn style wisdom ages but a number

49:33Ryan Hunn: anything else you want to shout out no all good we're good we're good yes we're good oh actually can I quickly just shout out Thomas Muller who scored a hat-trick on his birthday and oh lovely big win for Vancouver Whitecaps by the way they beat Philadelphia Union 7-0 which is wild because Philadelphia are technically the best team Thomas Muller in the MLS at the moment in Vancouver just works yeah also he's been out I literally posted a thing in the stadio discord being like he's been out of but he's been out of Germany six weeks he's already grown a beard it's quite Wolverine energy he's been out of Munich and he's just like listen my I'm not wearing the shirt in the jeans in the white pumps anymore.

50:16Ryan Hunn: I'm going beard. I'm going like, I'm getting a pair of like, Sambas. I'm getting some wide-legged trousers. Can you imagine? I'm just accessorised. I'm going to accessorise. Now I'm in Vancouver. I'm on the West Coast.

50:31Musa Okwonga: He's only beginning. Can you imagine when he wanders back in and has like, he comes back to Munich and like has his first inner back of Munich in a year and he comes back and like catches up with some of the old sponsors. He's like wearing dungarees. Why have you kind of turned into like the dude?

50:45Ryan Hunn: Yeah, yeah. Turns up in a robe. He's got a white Russian. He's just like... Thomas Miller going native.

50:57Musa Okwonga: Any Canadian is like listening.

50:59Ryan Hunn: The big Lewandowski, right?

51:01Musa Okwonga: The big Lewandowski.

51:05Musa Okwonga: Any Canadians with further suggestions for how Thomas Miller can more successfully go native? We're all ears. If you can sort of send like a plan, like a six... Surely he's going to start surfing. 12, 18, 24 month plan. Yeah, yeah. Where does Thomas go from here? Exactly. Give him an arc.

51:19Ryan Hunn: Just love that.

51:20Musa Okwonga: I love that. I love it for him.

51:22Ryan Hunn: All right, shall we roll? Yeah, let's do it. Wednesday and Friday we'll do this week. Champions League is back. Three days with Champions League. Don't forget, if you haven't signed up as a Stadio member on Patreon to get those two pods in full and ad-free, go to patreon.com forward slash Stadio. Sign up for a podcast membership or a Stadio social club membership and we'll be very pleased to have you. Also, don't forget, tickets for the London Live show at the South Bank Centre are on sale now. Link is in the podcast description. And also, don't forget to check the Stadio Archers place on Spotify.

51:55Ryan Hunn: Speaking of which, we're actually playing out on one that we played out on many, many, many moons ago, but we're going to play out on it again because I was looking for some stuff this morning and I was like, do you know what? I'm just going to play out on that again. Cast Reflections by Vaz. Anything you would like to add, Musa Akwanga? Nothing further.

52:09Musa Okwonga: Sure? Yes, absolutely sure. Positive?

52:11Ryan Hunn: Yes. All right, everyone. much love stay well and we'll be back with you on Wednesday see you then

52:45Thank you.

53:21Thank you.

53:49Thank you.

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