It’s too early for a crisis right… right?

0:22Musa Okwonga: Hello and welcome back to the Stadia podcast. I'm Mr. Okwonga.

0:25Ryan Hunn: I'm Ryan Hunn. Ryan, how are you doing? Doing all right, thanks man. How are you doing? I am good I'm good I bet you are after your beloved Manchester United escaped escaped the crisis club

0:39Musa Okwonga: of the week escaped no no United had to win had to get that done against Ipswich that was a fun game

0:46Ryan Hunn: I think a little too fun the first half was a little too fun but we will we will talk about it we will we hope everyone's staying safe and well wherever you are couple of bits of admin we're going to do another show this week on Patreon so if you're listening to this on the free feed you want to sign up, go to patreon.com forward slash stadio. You can sign up as a podcast member where you get all the podcasts ad-free in full or sign up as a stadio social club member where you get all of that plus extra perks including access to the stadio social club discord. We're probably going to talk a bit about the transfer window and well the transfer deadline and some stuff that's been thrown up with this current window and we'll either put that up late Wednesday or early Thursday.

1:24Ryan Hunn: Other than that I don't think there's any admin. Today we're going to talk a little bit about is it too early for a crisis is it too early to be in crisis you don't want to be in crisis before september i don't think can i say in football it's never too early for a crisis we can always fit in the crisis always always yeah i agree what was that was it duncan alexander had that tweet once where it was saying each week there's a crisis club in the Premier League and the goal is just not to be it.

1:56Musa Okwonga: Not to be it, yeah.

1:59Ryan Hunn: That's the vibe of today's show, I think. That's right. So yeah, I reckon we get into it. Let's do it. But there is only one place to begin, Moose, before we talk about crises or a crisis. But actually, there is not only one place to begin. There are multiple places to begin. There are multiple places that we could begin this week. Would you like me to provide you with some options?

2:21Musa Okwonga: and all six of the options are from one match day aren't they could it possibly be

2:28Ryan Hunn: Enigy Cottbus 3 Greuterfurt 4 or could it be Heidenheim 5 Dinamo Dresden 3 what about Eintracht Braunschweig 3 Hertha BSC 5

2:41Musa Okwonga: I got such an excited text message from my godson's dad going the Zweiter Bundesliga 36 goals in 6 games it's wild it absolutely delivered i saw when i saw that list of frictions i was like i know i know what's coming i know i know what this is what is it you know what's that thing what's that thing like quantum i don't know much about like quantum physics something that changes what sounds of observation is that like a quantum league the spider does it behave differently once it knows you're really paying attention to it what's the line from offenheimer it's paradoxical

3:22Ryan Hunn: and yet it works and that should be the tagline to the zweiter bundesliga i would love that i would

3:28Musa Okwonga: love that you know i would love actually i mean not not no joke no word of a joke i would love a hollywood actor to just out of nowhere do like promo for the zweiter bundesliga and it turned out that actually like daniel day lewis it like one of his guilty pledges was just watching Zweiter Bundesliga like on VHS like from like from the 90s almost yeah

3:49Ryan Hunn: I'm surprised that no I'm pretty sure they have no one has done it yet but the Zweiter Bundesliga social media admin hasn't remade the Avengers Doomsday Doomsday trailer but with you know when the club badges just appear on instead yes and it's Pedro Pascal just being like what did you do Victor what did you do this what did you do and it's just like I track Brownstrike against

4:13Musa Okwonga: what did you do smoking ruins and of course crests of like huge clubs that shouldn't be there yeah yeah

4:22Ryan Hunn: like Wolfsburg doing the Thor line being like we thought these people were scary all my friends are dead and it's just all the clubs that have been relegated

4:35Ryan Hunn: I'd love to see it I'd love to see it there you go Zweite Bundesliga doomsday I'd watch her I would. Probably more than the actual dude's day. Probably more than you should. I want to watch it in Svita Bundesliga vision. Spimax. Anyway, they're not paying us. Go and watch the Svita Bundesliga. It's the best league in the world. The actual Bundesliga was back. Maybe we'll touch on that towards the end of the show. But as usually happens the first couple of weeks back, the Premier League is our focus at the moment. Although we will, don't worry, we will branch out and pick up on some themes from other leagues throughout the next few weeks.

5:14Ryan Hunn: We're kind of holding it off because we could have probably done two episodes on it already or not on it, but on him. Jude Bellingham is putting in a potential player of the season run already. He is...

5:29Musa Okwonga: What he is doing there is truly astonishing. Can I just quickly on Jude Bellingham? He was so good on the weekend against Malaga. You know, it's interesting. So Mourinho is scarily quiet over there. I worry there's going to be an explosion soon because it's all a bit too oddly. I am, dude, it's way, way too sensible for me. I'm afraid, I'm afraid. I'm really afraid. Let's just, you know, let's just enjoy this what it is. So very sensible midfield, which allows Bellingham to, Valverde, Camavinga, very sensible, engine room, passing range, that allows Bellingham to operate as like a, the final form of what Oscar was meant to be for Chelsea.

6:09Musa Okwonga: Like someone that can finish, someone that can link play, someone who's an assist maker, a second striker, a proper 10, a defensive 10, the first line of the press, all of that. Bellingham, absolutely immense. And he's aware of the season he's having because he actually is commenting on the versus social media. They were chatting about the season he's having and how it's not being talked about enough. And Bellingham's the first comment under there.

6:34Ryan Hunn: What does he say?

6:35Musa Okwonga: he just acknowledges because they use a song by JK the MC and Bellingham tags JK in it and was like with sort of a thumbs up basically going yeah yeah what a great tune but like he read the caption because he checked this stuff out and I thought that's interesting because Bellingham is very very aware of what's being said and I'm glad actually because just to say this positively he is coming off the best season he's coming off the best World Cup an English a male English player has ever had and he's taken that form rather like Alex Baino as well. He's riding a hot streak over at Leti. He's taken that form straight into the La Liga season.

7:09Musa Okwonga: And in a whole firmament of stars, you think of all the players who've come into La Liga, not just who come into Madrid, but also Barca. Shout out to Anthony Gordon, Flash Gordon, who's cooking over there. Of all the players active in La Liga, Bellingham is the brightest. That's an incredible achievement. His goal was so good on the weekend as well. So good. So good. So Real Madrid is surprising. he's a playmaker listen those of you out there who think he's not a playmaker but he's many many things he's not just he's not just pace and power stop it stop it we see it he didn't have an urban finish

7:51Musa Okwonga: anyway

7:52Ryan Hunn: I miss those days of Twitter man where it's just every time Lukaku scored a goal you would tweet Lukaku there with the urban finish

8:04Ryan Hunn: good times good times so Real Madrid surprisingly probably not in crisis yes strong and stable who would have known who would have known not us who would have thought who ate the bacon sandwich in that analogy Alonso

8:25Musa Okwonga: probably probably Chelsea we'll come to Chelsea in a moment actually they're interesting

8:30Ryan Hunn: they are probably a little too interesting alright well anyway let's go to the Premier League so I think we've got we've got some

8:40Musa Okwonga: we've got a crisis we've got an actual crisis now okay think about Spurs who lost 2-0 against Newcastle is this is this a crisis or is it a transition I think

8:54Ryan Hunn: I think that's a really good question

8:56Musa Okwonga: I think it is I think it's a transition that's being talked into a crisis by people in the centre of it. This to me is like, look, you've lost to a Newcastle team who have come out of the traps surprisingly well. To my surprise, I'm not going to lie, to my surprise, maybe to the surprise of quite a few supporters, the problem with Spurs, and Spurs, you know, they lost 2-0 against Newcastle at home. There's a lot to be said about this. The first thing I want to say, if it's any comfort to Spurs at all, started really, really well. Started really, really well. Spurs' problem, and this was the thing with the end of last season under the Zerbe, Spurs' problem is not that they are not enterprising an attack.

9:40Musa Okwonga: It's not they don't have quality. Spurs' problem is the fragility. Jonathan Liu wrote a piece about Spurs' start of the season which contained a shocking stat which is that in the last 44 games where they've gone behind, they failed to win any of those games. Which says, everything about the fragility of the side. There's a mental fragility about we go a goal down and we just don't have solutions. That to me is the enduring problem. This is why I say it's transition because the art of just coming back and winning, they've just got to do it once. They've just got to break the cycle somehow once because again, they created really, really, really well.

10:23Musa Okwonga: Pedro Porro has come in like, this is a World Cup winner. These are not just the World Cup winner, but a protagonist in the World Cup win, someone who was outstanding against France. It's not, and this is almost, there needs to be a kind of issue with Spurs where, and maybe we're fueling it because we're starting with them. There needs to be a conversation about narrative where you have to sort of actually say, no, this isn't in quote, same old Spurs. This is a group of very good footballers who just need time to gel. And they've come up against a Newcastle team who are really resilient, who've just signed Gonzalez themselves.

10:54Musa Okwonga: They've just like upgraded on the team they had just last week against Liverpool, which was pretty good as it stood. It's a disappointing setback, but it's not the time to spiral. I'm seeing spiralling already, which is the problem.

11:12Ryan Hunn: I think that's going to happen though, isn't it? When you come off quite a stressful two seasons. Spurs are in such a weird, they exist in such a weird part of the Premier League psyche because they have the best stadium in the league, especially in terms of a new build stadium, that generates such a huge amount of revenue. They, for a couple of seasons under Pochettino, could have potentially won the league and could have potentially won a Champions League, which is quite wild to even think now. They have that year under Ange, well, the season under Ange where they win the Europa League but struggling in the Premier League, which I don't think gets compartmentalised in the way that it should have done and then they have the season that they have last season which they follow up with spending a huge amount of money and there's a huge amount of optimism there and it just gets punctured straight away like there's a stat that came out

12:15Ryan Hunn: that spurs and this is the like I just don't I think this just goes to demonstrate how different it was supposed to be in the new era, in the new stadium. Spurs have now lost more league games at home in the new stadium than Arsenal have in the Emirates Stadium. Jesus. That's how bad their home form has been over the last couple of years, specifically. and it's such a weird thing to be in because like for example first of all I completely agree with you I think it's way too early to be considering pulling the plug on anything Spurs related or talking about crisis stuff but I think when you've had that outlay

13:04Musa Okwonga: Expectation

13:04Ryan Hunn: Yeah and De Zerbi made a real point I think in his post-match interview where he said look you can fix certain things in the transfer market but we have to become a team and we're working on that I'm paraphrasing, but that was kind of basically what you're saying. And the only thing I think that when you make such a splash with the amount of money they've spent and the transfer that they've made, because they've signed some really good players, I just think people don't have the patience. You don't get to march to figure it out.

13:33Musa Okwonga: No, I get that. And you know what's interesting is that the problem is that Deserby is not somebody that you want in a situation. No, put it this way. And historically, I'm not saying he can't do it, but historically, Deserby has not been someone that extracts you from a kind of tailspin. It doesn't, he, he, unfortunately, the thing is he is someone who more often than not has been a catalyst for this type of issue. Right. And it's interesting because I know it's not the type of football he wants to play, but someone like an Emi Martinez as a signing in that context is quite good. You just need someone who's just a bit unafraid of all of it.

14:09Musa Okwonga: Yeah. Who actually doesn't care. Who is a bit. I think that's an unbelievable sign of for Chelsea, by the way. I think so. Especially for that amount of money. It's incredible. Emi Martinez suits Chelsea's style of football better than he would have suited Spurs, that's for sure. But psychologically, emotionally, what it is, if you look at what Chelsea look like now as a growing unit, there is a solidity there already, despite shipping a couple of goals to Brighton. There's a solidity there, emotionally, I think, that Spurs don't have. And the concern I have for them is you have players like Poro who have this incredible aura coming off the World Cup.

14:48Musa Okwonga: And we've seen what Poro's ceiling is. And if the rot continues for a couple of months, Poro's level can drop. And you want to keep those people at the level that they are. This is what I'm saying, I suppose. And I'm just concerned that, I'm concerned they'll hit a skid. There's talk about another keeper coming in or whether another keeper should come in. and there's a lot of talk about like of course the amount of money that's been spent there's a huge amount of course and they've looked maybe this is also partly you know people like me who expected more more quickly when you know seeing Fernandes added and these these players are bought relatively early in the window this is the thing Spurs got the business done quite well they've had time to work on stuff they've had time in quotes to become a team there are coaches who've had less time than Spurs to get something working I think this is just more a sign of how deep the rock was I think we've underestimated how I think we've underestimated how I think stressful that season was last year do you know like Liverpool this year again I did the same thing with Liverpool I expected Liverpool to look a bit sharper at the start of this year but I personally underestimated just how disruptive last year was for them and how that goes into the new season and I underestimated again with Spurs I suppose to the same extent how long it takes to get something moving because the Premier League again this year it's different and it's not like last year.

16:09Musa Okwonga: Even the playing style we're seeing from the early games, it's more chaotic. I mean, look, the opening, Forest's opening goal against Liverpool, for example. Yeah, yeah. Like, does that make sense? That kind of goal where you've got like, Liverpool are on the attack, ball gets whacked clear, good first touch from like a Forest forward and all of a sudden Liverpool are turning around in danger. This type of openness of play, this end-to-end, do you know what I mean? It's a different league again. so like the league you're planning for it's not the one that you're working off like different scripts now

16:40Ryan Hunn: Dude Ipswich were like carving Manchester United open Yeah Continually in that first half

16:45Musa Okwonga: Yeah yeah totally like if thank God for God for Lomans because if it wasn't for Lomans we would have been in big trouble So yeah it's it's an evolving league it's a new group of players that need to gel and of course Spurs are known to be a bit fragile at the moment so teams are kind of either carving them open or in Newcastle's case to their credit Newcastle just absorbing a lot of shock. Newcastle broke through really, really, really late, scored two beautiful goals and actually I think an emblem of, a symbol, sorry, a symbol of Newcastle's evolution this year, El Anger last year who really struggled in the league has got two and two.

17:19Musa Okwonga: So they've got off to the races. So there's an element of, what is it, panic, don't panic. I think it's the advice.

17:27Ryan Hunn: Yeah, I think, I just think that, you know, we talked a couple of times already about the importance of momentum, especially going into a new season. And I think we talked about it from Maresca. Actually, I think Manchester City have... They look great against Palace. Yeah, I think they looked... I think a little bit of that was Palace also, though. And I think it's going to be... I still think City are really interesting because I was looking at their... I don't think they have a huge amount of depth anymore. And I know that... That's my one thing with them. That's my one question. But I think when they're obviously at their full strength, first choice 11, they look really good.

18:12Ryan Hunn: And I really love Ryan Shirky just playing as a 10 in there with Semenyo. And I think Foden works better on that side as well. And you've got Doku to play as well and Haaland up front. The midfield is interesting how now Nico O 'Reilly's pushed into a deeper midfield position next to Elliot Anderson.

18:31Musa Okwonga: I think he was brilliant there under Pep, wasn't he?

18:34Ryan Hunn: Yeah, and I'm intrigued to see if that's the midfield that they'll go with. But I mean, one of the departures, Nico Gonzalez, was key in the switch for the Newcastle goal. But yeah, going back to what we were saying, I think the problem with the momentum is that just... If you are... So I think a lot of people, I think including us, we had Spurs... You know, we were looking at like a top six for Spurs this season to get back in there as maybe like where they should be aiming to be. Obviously, Champions League is the goal for Spurs this season. If they start falling behind too far, too early, I think the problem that is easy to overlook with clubs like Spurs, because I've been in that position actually as an Arsenal fan as well for a few years where the season's over before it began sometimes.

19:27Ryan Hunn: And it's not, that sounds like a big, over like being overly dramatic look at the women's

19:34Musa Okwonga: the first three games women's in the league they got up to the a couple of draws and you fall behind City and then you're chasing for the entire season you're chasing the entire year

19:44Ryan Hunn: and that's that's that's something that like it's I think when you have when you go into the season with a new sense of optimism and you go into the season with heightened expectations based on some really following on from some really really difficult seasons even though you did win Europa League in that time as well this is what I mean I think Spurs kind of almost exist a little bit in their own mini ecosystem or mini or like a microclimate at the moment for yeah in terms of like certain clubs in the league not even I think I think just because like the highs have been so high in the last two years and the lows have been so low yeah I struggle to think of another club in the league that's had something that wide in a football sense obviously I mean yeah no totally totally and so

20:35Ryan Hunn: I think for I fear for them a little bit and I don't want to kind of make too sweeping a statement so early on in the season but I just worry for Spurs a little bit when you have

20:50Ryan Hunn: if another season looks like it's just going to slide away very very quickly what that will do for the collective because you have a lot of new people coming in there as well and we've talked about this before haven't we about like the the difficulty the difficulty when you have such a like a lack of experience of people who have like been there for a long time at the club because you've had a big a lot of departures again right so you know club captain has left I think Mickey Van Der Ven is now the club captain he's not a senior he's usually a junior centre back in the pairing right so yeah I just feel like I think they will be okay and turn it around and I don't think two games is anything to be to be making it's not enough time to be making definitive judgements on whatever is going on because as we've seen from last season as well things can change so quickly but no goals in two games no points in two games another home defeat after the summer that they've had they just have to be really careful I think

21:58Musa Okwonga: Yeah I agree, I agree, I agree and it's interesting because they have they have so much quality in the squad there are some really good players in there I suppose they don't have the players to play this system but they have Sanessi there as well Van Hecker and Van Der Ven and Sanessi's on the bench and I think he's too good to be on the bench Yeah I think, you know, I look at the Chelsea set up with the back three and the flying wingers and I think that's the kind of thing, they don't have quite the player, the profile, but I think that's the kind of set up that could work quite well for Spurs.

22:34Musa Okwonga: You can lock down in the middle, you've got three centre backs that can really pass the ball and mark one-on-one. And then you've just got something you can really unlock. But the problem is that Spurs have signed players who have arrived maybe not that high on confidence. Mateus Fernandes from a relegated West Ham Tonali came from a struggling Newcastle signed to Tonali Marmouche out of favour at City out of form he did look quite bright though he did he did but you've signed players you haven't signed players who are taking a step up having been lights out somewhere else the bulk of the signings that have come in are not players who've swaggered in it's not like you've signed I don't know yeah you haven't just signed in Martinez who's gone to a World Cup final who brings that into the dressing room.

23:21Musa Okwonga: And like Porro's there, don't get me wrong, he's a really important character this year for them because in terms of the setup, he looked actually really, really good. Yeah, I think he's elevated

23:33Ryan Hunn: in the squad status as well, I think.

23:35Musa Okwonga: Yeah, I think so. A lot is going to be asked of him in terms of leadership this year. And again, the Spurs looking for silver linings, he did look really, really good for long stretches against Newcastle. And I think that an opening goal for Spurs changes the whole conversation because Newcastle really had to hang in there for the first hour. Having said all of that, the real issue is not what they do going forward. It's the resilience, actually. The defensive resilience.

24:00Ryan Hunn: Yeah, I think no goals in the league, like I mentioned. And I think that their Carabao Cup win in midweek, albeit against Charlton. But scoring five, I thought that maybe that would have, you know, sometimes you see like a game like that just to get some reps from a team. and they looked fairly bright in moments against Newcastle I thought so yeah I think they probably actually to know what though I think they should have had a penalty the one on Mamouche when he gets brought down I think is probably a penalty I'm not really sure why it's not unless I miss something although to be honest look do you know what's in crisis really really what's that it's Premier League it's not Premier League actually because I think it's an IFAB thing it's an IFAB thing but Harry Maguire goal I had no idea that was actually part of the law and it's I think that I would love to just be in the room when someone's like do you know what how about guys hang on guys I've got it I've got it you know how about if someone handles the ball to control it and shoots if it goes in directly will disallow the goal.

25:20Ryan Hunn: Yeah, that's a good, that's, yeah. Actually, do you know what? You're right. You shouldn't be able to control the ball with your hand and score. Guys, I'd like to just... He enjoyed the whole thing as well. Can we just, can I make a suggestion? Oh God, here we go. What's this going to be? This is always, there's always one. It's always... What about if we allow the goal, if it takes a deflection and therefore goes down as an own goal. Even if it's a shot. Even if it's the actual shot. So what we'll do is we'll reward the player who handles the ball for not hitting a shot on target.

25:59Musa Okwonga: It's so weird. It's so weird. Absolutely unhinged.

26:05Ryan Hunn: And they're like, yes. Love it. Let's put that into the international football law book. it's just like what is that about honestly

26:16Musa Okwonga: what have you been smoking it's absolutely unhinged absolutely unhinged

26:20Ryan Hunn: over there at IFAP let's wrap up on Spurs anything else we want to do before we then transition onto there was potential for crisis at Old Trafford and it was avoided

26:30Musa Okwonga: before we transition actually away from this game I actually just want to give a shout out to Wisser who started the season really well

26:35Ryan Hunn: yeah good call

26:36Musa Okwonga: struggling as the 9 but I think taking the pressure off him in that first game as the 10 and him just showing the full attacking range. That's one of the underrated finishes of the season, I think, will go down as the finish that his second goal was absolute beauty. And again, Spurs did not do a huge amount wrong defensively. Both Newcastle goals were really good goals. It wasn't like, I don't know, I hate to like, you know, defence shame, but some of the defending, for example, by Stuttgart against Bayern wasn't the greatest this week. It wasn't like that. They didn't have calamities at the back.

27:12Musa Okwonga: These were just well-executed goals, but the problem, I suppose, is not making their chances count. But yeah, that's Spurs for now. Jumping across to Old Trafford, because I think we have to talk about that. Bang of the game. So good, man. I really enjoyed that first half in particular. They had to hang tight, United, because Ipswich gave them, gave us the business. They really did.

27:38Ryan Hunn: Ipswich, man. I think actually one of the more positive not positive but I think surprising elements of the season is actually how sharp some of the the three I know Coventry have lost both games but Hull Hull beating them on the weekend but actually how front footed those three teams have been I've been quite impressed with all three of them at various points actually Ipswich in particular

28:04Musa Okwonga: I don't think that would actually stand them in good stead if you look at how the season started like it's a it's a goal heavy see the teams at the top I mean Chelsea are third after playing two games scored seven conceded five

28:18Ryan Hunn: I texted you didn't I yes they're saying like Chelsea I think Chelsea might be second three points off top in March having conceded like 56 56

28:31Musa Okwonga: yeah yeah it could be like it could be one of those you know really front-footed Ipswich going for it at Old Trafford and this was a real it's like an old school something like a mid-80s game like a mid-80s like you know first division game Manchester United 5 Ipswich 2 like Old Trafford just felt like a classic instant classic

28:50Ryan Hunn: Bruno Finanj hat-trick yeah also go on go for it I was going to say I think that this I thought what was really encouraging was A Marcus Rashford starting and B how how good he looked and how much he gave Manchester United. And I think he played, I know Bruno Fernandes was brilliant and the hat trick will take all the headlines and rightly so. But I thought Marcus Rashford was just putting a very smart performance in this game. He was quite integral and involved in quite a lot of the stuff that Manchester United did. And that is a major, major plus for Manchester United if they have a Rashford that is anywhere near or on the level of the Barcelona of Marcus Rashford because he was really good last season.

29:42Musa Okwonga: He was absolutely flying. Yeah, Marcus Rashford decided he decided La Liga. He decided La Liga by beating Courtois with a free kick. That is not a normal...

29:53Ryan Hunn: And he wasn't even going to shoot.

29:54Musa Okwonga: That is not a normal thing for a wide forward to be doing. That's an elite level executor and he did... He absolutely tore Ipswich apart but the reason he was allowed to do that I think because a lot of talk about Rashford is about the defence of contribution and it not being as present as, for example, let's say a Gordon, although frankly, no one defends like Gordon as a wide forward. So that's, you know, that is what that is. Kobe Maynard in the field. This, see, this is what it looks like. It's really good. There's something going on with English football. It's like, we don't have players that can control games.

30:29Musa Okwonga: It's like Kobe Maynard is right there. We don't have playmakers. Bellingham's right there. Listen, you have players that do these things. you just have to like, they're right there, they're right there in the squad right there.

30:39Ryan Hunn: Where is the kind of like the deep lying, ball playing smaller midfielder that they make on the continent? Where's our local Modric? Where's our local Modric? Miles Lewis-Skelly started the Champions League final.

30:50Musa Okwonga: Where are they? Where are the players that can break the lines? I thought what was interesting about this game, back to the schedule program, the Euro-Tiedemanns-Kobi-Meinu axis is super interesting because I think even though Tielemans and Santos are brought in, I wonder if the first choice midfield is Kobe Mainu plus one other. Because of what Mainu can do, Mainu carries the ball into the spaces in a way that neither Tielemans or Santos can, quite can. Like his elusiveness, his ability to switch the play is reminiscent of like a young Luka Modric. it's the same type of player not the same absolutely the same but you look at the work he did defensively it's astonishing the amount of times he won the ball back the amount of times he carried the ball through gaps you could maybe compare him to like a Moussa Dembele as well to an extent but that is absolutely what United were missing against Hull and you see the difference if Kobe Mane who plays against Hull it's a big shout I think you just get a different type of game I'm not saying that Hull don't win that I'm not trying to disrespect Hull in that game I'm just saying the nature of Manchester United's chance creation is different because the quality of chance they made against Ipswich, but the quality of ball they had.

32:02Musa Okwonga: If you look at like the whole game and how they were reduced to like aerial crosses and Kobe Main who's in the middle and all of a sudden wide forwards are getting the ball exactly as they want at attacking space. And Hull left space. If you look at the game against Coventry, right, Hull are open. Hull aren't some like sit-dead to soak it up. Hull can play on the counter. Hull can actually stretch you. Hull can play on the front foot too, right? So this is not even a knock on the style. United looked so stolid against Hull because they didn't have this imagination through the center. And the moment Kobi Meina was there unlocking it, United just flew.

32:35Musa Okwonga: And the dangerous thing about that is, rather like Bellingham's Malaga, they gave Bruno Finanj the ball in places where he is at his most dangerous as a pressing 10. Just because Bruno Finanj can play deep line doesn't mean he should, right? he needs to be as close to goal as possible finding the combinations finishing if he has to and the way that he took responsibility in this game was elite absolutely brilliant

33:04Ryan Hunn: so Manchester United despite going a goal down escaped the crisis crisis averted I think if they didn't win that game I think there would have been some

33:15Musa Okwonga: noises already and all of a sudden if you look at that bench they've got genuine depth genuine depth the one place they don't really have it I would say is at the left back spot that is still going to be a problem for them this year unfortunately and they've been told about it many many times but for some reason even though they've spent a fair bit of money this summer for some reason they're still cutting corners at the left back spot not quite sure why

33:37Ryan Hunn: I know we mentioned them briefly but I just want to make a point of bigging up Hull City yes playing Coventry in the second game it's it's a team that they're familiar with especially from last season but not conceded a goal yet and I know that you know we talked about them last week after the Manchester United game but yeah I just want to make a point of saying that they are currently second in the Premier League at the time of recording Fantastic freeze the table stop the count and you know like we were saying I remember we were talking about was it Forest a couple of years ago we were saying they just need to turn just keep those keep those drawers ticking over yeah totally and you just pick up points wherever you can early in the season they're already six points ahead of the relegation zone.

34:21Ryan Hunn: And to beat a direct rival as well, that they might be scrapping towards the end

34:24Musa Okwonga: in terms of squad depth, yeah.

34:27Ryan Hunn: And I think they host Villa next week. If they pick up a point against Villa, that is a hell of a opening run. Villa host Arsenal tonight. We're recording this ahead of that game. Selfishly, I hope that goes okay. I'm quite intrigued by that. yeah me too yeah I don't I'm not gonna lie I'm not I'm not wild about a Monday night away at Villa so early on in the season yeah

34:56Musa Okwonga: lovely goodbye by Emery to Olly Watkins by the way I missed that yeah he was basically like look he obviously wasn't available for the last fixture but you know he said to the guys like he made a mistake he fessed up to that but overall he's just been great for us and I I said goodbye to him with like a big hug and a little little tear he felt quite sad yeah yeah so really really classy

35:17Ryan Hunn: maybe we'll talk about that on the next show when we're talking about some transfers yeah the transfers he looks like he's completed his move yeah couple of right let's just we're not going to go through game by game but just any other thoughts on the Premier League wild game at Stamford Bridge and yeah two games where Chelsea have been in control and then nearly very very much lost control of the game which I think is going to be giving Jabby Alonso headaches

35:44Musa Okwonga: yeah definitely fantastic game missed some great attacking the front three has got really good chemistry Jaal Pedro Morgan Rodgers who looked fantastic and Cole Palmer everyone's kind of allowed everyone's got the space to do what they kind of want this is very similar to the Leverkusen setup actually this is the benefit of Xabi Alonso coming in now with Chelsea having had a bit of a disaster it just allows him to have a blank slate which is exactly what he had at Leverkusen and you see immediately now like Gusto and Lavia Lavia are a player I just absolutely love allowing those three players to really create to their heart's content.

36:20Musa Okwonga: Again, like problems to be solved at the back. This is the thing. I'm not sure necessarily if those wide forwards are optimal. I like Neto a lot. I think he's got a great creativity behind him, but yeah, he's got to plug some gaps, Chabby, because the Chabby-Lonso Leverkusen was known for being defensively quite robust. So I wonder who they bring in. So yeah, that work in progress, Chelsea, but a pretty impressive work in progress, I've got to say. Elsewhere...

36:49Ryan Hunn: One of the most spiritually onside goals of the weekend, if not the most spiritually onside goal of the weekend, was Florian Witts' disallowed goal. Oh, Witts.

36:56Musa Okwonga: I knew you were going to go into that. You know what was so awful about that as well? How much that goal would have meant. I know. And how much it would have meant. And Frimpong was off.

37:04Ryan Hunn: Yeah. But he was coming back onside, which means that, as we know, that's there.

37:09Musa Okwonga: But there's something about that which is like, show the urgency. Like, you know what it is? This really bugs you. This is like a... You know what it is, I think, with offsides? It's because it's something you have full control over. It's a sharpness thing. It's a readiness. Yes, but you don't have full control when you get the ball,

37:27Ryan Hunn: when someone passes the ball to you. But sometimes there is an element of that in there.

37:31Musa Okwonga: There is an element, but there's also like... This is not a knock-on for impong. There was a thing... The reason it became a bugbear for me, and this is not me having a go at for impong at all, actually, in this context. It was a bugbear for me because there were players who I will not name now who were so quick Kylian Mbappe ha ha ha they were so quick that they could afford

37:52Ryan Hunn: there was a whole like IMAX sized reel of unbelievable Kylian Mbappe goals that were just Lavrov aside you know what's funny about this

38:05Musa Okwonga: I spent like the weekend watching Messi you know there's there's so many players that Messi played with where they like missed shocking chances where Messi puts on a plate and they sky it and if they score it it's like one of the greatest assists of all time and they just have the amount of times Messi puts it on a plate and they just send it sailing to the moon

38:24Ryan Hunn: It's like watching Masterchef right? Where they just take one bite and then they just bin it It was like this The whole plate left Look what they did to my boy Again

38:34Musa Okwonga: Too salty Again They can literally just have Messi sit in There's probably like an hour of those Like these would have been the greatest assists of all time Messi beats like four players and someone disguised it. But yeah, Viet's really unlucky. He came back with great character to set up Munoz for the late equaliser. Lovely goal that. It was and actually like Forrest would have been on, that would have been like three straight wins at Anfield I think if they'd won that. Yeah. They'd hung on to win that. It's a good point for Forrest actually.

38:56Ryan Hunn: They look quite good. They look better than they did last week. Gibbs-Wright has a banger of penalty too. Yeah.

39:03Musa Okwonga: Liverpool. Do you know what? They didn't, Spurs fans might well say hang on a minute, crisis. How about them? Yeah, I mean,

39:10Ryan Hunn: the only thing I'm nervous

39:11Musa Okwonga: is two points are better. and then no points. I'm nervous about the Barclay transfer. I don't like the amount of money. I don't think he is a sure enough goal scorer. I don't think that defensively he gives them enough on that flank. If you buy... A lot of money. A Quarix Scalia, then you allow Kerkesh a bit of grace. Kerkesh won't be protected with Barclay there. And he lost his way in the pecking order. I think that, for example...

39:35Ryan Hunn: Is Quarix Scalia available though? No, he wasn't.

39:38Musa Okwonga: But if you're going to buy a left winger with Kerkesh behind him, you need to have more defensive hair and you don't have it. You buy like a Gordon. And if I look at like PSG getting, if I look at Villa, for example, the value signing, I think, is Mbaye coming to Villa. I think that's a fantastic footballer. 55 years old. 55 million. Keep that in there. He's not King Kazoo. He's not King Kazoo. Mbaye's like, what? What? 55 million. There's a lot of money for a teenager, some might say, but like the track is there the quality is there he can grow within the villa setup Barkle is going to come in and he's going to be expected to like light things up and he just not he wasn't that player for PSG like he thrives in open spaces he can attack a low block but there's a reason he fell behind Dwey, Kraris Galia in the lineup right there's a reason he felt behind them is because he wasn't as decisive in key moments as a finisher and that is my concern and I'm only saying this because it's so much money and it feels very unliverpool some of these transfers like recent years like when they bought Alisson and Van Dijk for like 80 million each these were the missing pieces these were very clearly identified you add that player you elevate by a huge level they added Van Dijk and it just put them it was the final piece for them they've added three huge pieces now who are either like low on confidence injury prone or out of favour and Barcola it really I'm really really concerned I think he's a fantastic player don't get me wrong but for that sum of money you have to sign someone who's a sure bet and he's not a sure bet Ryan he's not a sure bet I'm really I'm just really concerned about it basically

41:31Ryan Hunn: it's a bit yeah I think after what happened last season it's a big

41:34Musa Okwonga: and it's not like Morgan Rodgers Morgan Rodgers is not Morgan Rodgers going to Chelsea for 117 do you know what Chelsea does not have the medium market that Liverpool has doesn't have the expectation you can get away with so much more at Chelsea you can get signed for a ton of money at Chelsea doesn't get covered that badly like because it kind of exists

41:52Ryan Hunn: but also you have the and I hate to use the term but you have the Premier League premium and he's English

41:58Musa Okwonga: he is but then but also he the reason why and he started like he was great against Brighton but the reason why that will not have so much fanfare was the expectation around Liverpool that's been building okay now we're going to kick on now we've got this great forward line there's no excuses anymore but I'm just really worried about it I'm really worried about it

42:20Ryan Hunn: Yeah I'm concerned I'm not worried yet I think I think it's just another thing that I'm a little concerned about with Liverpool in general but I the reason I'm concerned about it is because I feel that Iriola is he's such a good coach and I think that they're learning some new stuff like Alexander Ezek said after the game that there's new ideas and stuff like that and it takes a while to learn those things I think it will click you know it needs to be given time to click and I actually think because of what happened last season I think that and because maybe like the football wasn't super enjoyable from a Liverpool point of view I think that Irayola is such an exciting coach to get especially at this point in his career I think he will get that the thing is that you need as much removal of pressure as possible and like we were talking about with Spurs before when you put like 120 odd million pound signing in there, that just adds like a, you know.

43:33Ryan Hunn: And I kind of completely agree with what you're saying about the difference between someone like a Liverpool doing that and someone like a Chelsea doing that. And this doesn't mean that there are rules for different rules for different clubs. It just means that because of Chelsea's transfer policy over the last few years like you mentioned, it's all just a bit like yeah, yeah, sure, it's another one, it's another one, whatever. But the two examples of this happening to Liverpool very recently have been high profile highly debated transfers you know it's like Izak's goal on the weekend was only his fourth league goal for Liverpool and I know he was injured for quite a long period of last season but even that is it's not you know that's not the Alexander Izak that we saw at Newcastle or a Real Sociedad so yeah just one of those like I hope that this doesn't affect expectation too much at Liverpool in order to let Iriola really get to work because as we've talked about on the show before like we did with John McKenzie whose book is out by the way Spectre of Pep go buy it's a great book yeah I just hope this doesn't turn into one of those things where a really really really brilliant coach gets that Champions League job and kind of gets it's like oh you know you've been better off I hate to say it been better off getting Alex Baena like for that no no really really and the reason

44:54Musa Okwonga: No, no, no. The reason I say this is like, what do Liverpool need? What did they need? And I'm not saying he was even available, but that profile of player, that profile of player, you have two high profile,£100 million signings, neither of whom have clicked yet for different reasons, right? For various reasons. and you've added like a third. But the pressure on Barclay to be that player and as gifted as he is, no, not gifted, as brilliant a footballer as he is, that's now on him.

45:30Ryan Hunn: Yeah, I've got a feeling that him and Vierce are going to just really click.

45:34Musa Okwonga: Look, he's an amazing footballer. It's just, I want him to be given the time. I want them all to get the time for it to work. But it just needs to be patience. And this is not me like, you know, telling Liverpool fans what to do. it's more like the overall thing of it's going to take time to work I actually think

45:51Ryan Hunn: the Liverpool fans from from what I've seen have actually been cool with it I think it's more the external media that is the issue not necessarily the Liverpool fans I think Liverpool every a lot of Liverpool fans stuff that I've been reading has been it feels like they're kind of they're ready for this season just to be like look let's let's kind of rebuild I think they see this a lot of comparisons to the early Klopp time as opposed to you know being like right we're going to go and win the league this year

46:21Musa Okwonga: Do you know I wish for Liverpool and I know I'm obsessed with back threes at the moment Jacquet's looks so good

46:27Ryan Hunn: and Kerkesh

46:28Musa Okwonga: I wish they did actually have another like elite centre back well if they didn't have that injury they got Lyon coming back in a different universe different configuration a front three of Vietz Isak and Barcola with Keir, Keshe and Frimpong flying either side of them. Jacquet, Van Dijk and Leonie as the back three. That, I think, is a much more solid configuration that allows those three to get on the ball, get together. And I wonder if we see something like that. I wonder if we see them in attack. I wonder if we see like Keir, Keshe and Frimpong pushing up like that and those three getting close together like Leverkusen style.

47:07Musa Okwonga: I wonder if in attack we see, I don't know, like a 3-4-1-2 where the two push high up. And you've basically got like those three years close together because that's the way it's going to really, really work. And I think it can. I think it can fly, but it just needs the time.

47:21Ryan Hunn: It's two clubs that you've tried to get to play back threes in the Premier League already. Moose is trying to turn the Premier League into Serie A. I am, I am. Well, get out of here with that. We've got to see that from Isaac. Get out of here.

47:36Musa Okwonga: He didn't do it so much. I love that celebration. I do love it. I think it needs more of a banger to accompany it, but still.

47:41Ryan Hunn: And also it's kind of, it's hard to pull off. it's like the certain celebrations are hard to pull off when you're not really like firing firing like for example it was like the Jokeres one yeah 100 % like Jokeres when he's scoring a billion goals for sporting it's just like woof yeah the Bane mask kind of hits it's quite terrifying when he's scoring like a but to be fair to him he didn't he was forced a lot of players last season were like forcing him to do it when he was just a bit like I've just scuffed one in against Leeds or whatever anyway Arsenal we're just not talking about Arsenal That's why the Alan Shearer

48:15Musa Okwonga: celebration was so good with the arm raised because it could either be great goal or it could be apologetic There are some times when Harry Kane would score goals and you're like he doesn't really want to jump off the ground for this one but he's got to do it Right

48:28Ryan Hunn: a couple of quick shouts before we move on and then we'll do some other shout outs Bremford looking good good point against Leeds Leeds are also looking good they're unbeaten this season Azar Everton late point against Bournemouth Marco Rosa was very disappointed with this. He said, we got what we deserved with this slapstick goal. They should have put it away, Bournemouth. They should have put it away. They actually looked very, very good. David Boyce didn't think that Everton deserved a point, which I thought was quite... I like that. I like that kind of frankness. I mean, David Boyce is unique.

48:59Musa Okwonga: Can I say, impressed with Rose's start at Bournemouth.

49:02Ryan Hunn: Yeah, I am. Promising, isn't it? I know it's only a point, but still. They're playing some really nice stuff in that game. Yeah. We haven't mentioned him, even though we bigged up Sunderland, but Fulham are on there's potential there's potential for a crisis there so we'll talk about that another time right other shoutouts the Bundesliga is back it was the first weekend of the Bundesliga this weekend Bayern kicked things off on Friday night by beating Stuttgart 5-1 no goals for Harry Kane though so none for Harry Kane none for Harry Kane Evan Osco that's for sure yeah Evan Osco eight Dortmund oh man this is such a shame so Dortmund beat Haas Fou on Saturday 2-0 put in a really really good performance great goal from Yanis Constantilius who then like their new sign in Greek Greek guy 23 who they got in from Pauk actually he was the one who wasn't allowed to leave at the airport the Pauk fans were like no he then went off with a cruciate ligament injury during his first league game for Dortmund and is basically expected to miss the season now which is such bad news for him obviously but also for Dortmund because he was a, he looked so promising and you know like we were talking

50:39Musa Okwonga: I hate injuries

50:40Ryan Hunn: dude they're so horrible man and you know like when we were talking just you know about that with Spurs very different obviously when we're like oh you know you go into the season and it's a different level of expectation obviously at Dortmund but there was some real excitement about the transfer window that they've had for that again just to be like it's just like gone you know and I I suspect they're going to have to try and make another signing because I think they need another Masiala too isn't it

51:05Musa Okwonga: Masiala like having those injuries like back to back and you're like is he ever going to be back to what he was yeah I mean still both both players are still quite young but they've both played a lot of football like he's played a lot of football already this guy he's 23 years old yeah so yeah hope he returns to his best but I hate them even having to have this conversation you know yeah

51:26Ryan Hunn: sucks it's not not fun at all result of the weekend though Elvesburg getting a result on their first Buda Ziga game beaten by a Leverkusen 3-2 it was a late goal from Leverkusen Elversberg scored

51:43Musa Okwonga: maybe there's something to look out for Elversberg scored straight from the restart after scoring their first after scoring their first goal which can't have happened very often in the last few years no very Arsenal against Spurs didn't Fabregas do that

51:54Ryan Hunn: yeah the derby yeah yeah the derby when they were showing the replay and then they had to cut back and he's going through on goal

52:00Musa Okwonga: yeah sorry I didn't mean to mention just because it's the last time I remember it happening but it doesn't happen often but Elversberg maybe this is a feature of how they're going to play this year yeah front footed very aggressive I mean they were very fun in this

52:10Ryan Hunn: fighter last season

52:11Musa Okwonga: and yeah Leverkusen came back with two goals late on but couldn't couldn't couldn't get it done but yeah great great win for them great opener PSG crisis sleepy sleepy PSG what two all draws in the first two games PSG have the exact league record as Liverpool yeah The thing is PSG is like, everyone just expects them to like, well, I expect them to just ease into gear as the season goes on.

52:46Ryan Hunn: Do you know what's next week? What's that? Well, it's actually Friday night. It's PSG host Monaco. And I think this is already a massive game in Liga. It's Monaco atop. They've won two, played 2-1-2, not conceded a goal yet. They beat La Hava on the opening day of the season and they beat Marseille 2-0 on the weekend. That's a big one. Yeah, really big. if they get a result, I mean, I think this is, to be honest, PSG hosting Monaco having not won a game yet at home, that feels like the game that is going to just unlock PSG and then all of a sudden they're going to be like... It does, it does, doesn't it?

53:26Ryan Hunn: It does. But if Monaco get a point or more, then... We could, we could, we could be, we could be... Crisis watch. I mean, they've got,

53:35Musa Okwonga: look, it's a funny one, PSG, because they're so, the one thing I would say with them, they're very top heavy in attack, but defensively not the most robust.

53:47Ryan Hunn: Right?

53:47Musa Okwonga: They've just, they've been, the one danger I suppose they have is going slightly stale because the defense has been so effective for so long. They've kind of just built the attack up and it's like, okay, we just have this revolving cast of wide forwards who are just going to come on and cook everybody. That, that rubber will run out of road at a certain point. That approach, you need, you do need defensive solidity and I feel like they're a little bit they're cutting corners a little bit or have been and they've kind of got away with it and the bill is coming due at this point I think such a such an awkwardism that do you know I mean they need they need I think they've just they've just cut the corner so I feel there's going to be any kind of um gaps in gaps in the dominance it's going to come from that and the defense yeah the defense is a problem I mean to be fair they are also trying to integrate new players they started with that clues from ferran torres in the front three um duet got bounced at halftime for quiet scalia they're trying to like rotate a bit and bring in the new players and the wide forwards is what psg do i wonder if defensively i wonder if these opening games are going to be like a foreshadowing actually what makes them fall short because the big challenge to psg this year is going to be psg like do they have the intensity and desire to go three straight because that is their big aim I think it's a big ask for them

55:06Ryan Hunn: yeah I think that's it yeah I think the league is again just going to be a little bit like for example if they don't win Liga and they win the Champions League again I don't think they're going to be that they are going to they are going to be bothered but it's not going to be I don't think Luis Enrique is going to get fired if they win the Champions League and not Liga you know God no alright man we haven't talked about Serie A but we will maybe save it a little bit and chat about it next week or is there anything you want to quickly shout out to Seria?

55:38Musa Okwonga: No, I'm good. I'm good.

55:40Ryan Hunn: I've got big games next week.

55:42Musa Okwonga: It was a big deal for Como to win at Napoli. That was a big deal. That is true. I suppose. So that's the one thing I would mention. Venezia's had a difficult start. They've lost two on the bounce now, the first two. And the loss of Svoboda to Brighton is big actually. we knew it would be but it's really you see already like in the first couple of games that's a challenge for them it's going to be a hard long game for them but yeah but yeah just I suppose the standard result is the the Koma win over Napoli

56:09Ryan Hunn: yeah I agree next week you got Napoli go to Inter Milan go to Juve so some big games next weekend that we'll keep an eye on and we'll talk about next week is there anything else you want to

56:25Musa Okwonga: shout out today? No. Oh, the last thing is actually Martinelli going off, leaving Arsenal. That makes...

56:33Ryan Hunn: I was going to say that for the transfer deadline stuff.

56:36Musa Okwonga: We'll talk about the deadline stuff, but yeah, I just want to say, as a player that I really, really like, sad to see him leave. And best of luck, Tim. You interviewed him. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, didn't you? You interviewed him. Lovely. Lovely human. Lovely human. All the best, Tim.

56:49Ryan Hunn: Yeah, it looks like he's off to Al-Halal in a£60 million deal, €70 million. It's a good deal for Arsenal.

56:56Musa Okwonga: I'm not sure about the career development aspect

56:59Ryan Hunn: Yeah I mean we'll see from Martina I think it's yeah we can talk about it maybe another time but I think it's from an Arsenal point of view I think it's just really important they need a big sale I think it's a good thing for them to actually start to maximise how much they can get for transfers going out because they've not been very good at that

57:18Musa Okwonga: Yeah yeah that's true very true

57:19Ryan Hunn: Also it looks like is Gabriel Jesus off to Barcelona? That is do you know what though I kind of see it I know it's I kind of see it

57:30Musa Okwonga: you know no I think it's a great it's a great signing 10 million

57:34Ryan Hunn: I mean for that amount of money I think it's it depends on his fitness but I think they could have they needed another striker

57:40Musa Okwonga: with working with Hansi Flick I think it's going to be I mean that Barcelona already in attack are looking thrilling thrilling I mean it's Barcelona yeah

57:51Ryan Hunn: Arsenal really needed those wages off the books as well yeah totally totally alright man should we leave it there for today let's do it alright everyone we hope you're staying safe and well wherever you are if you are listening to this on the free feed and you want to sign up to get every episode every Stadio episode ad free info patreon.com forward slash Stadio we'll be back later this week with another episode about the transfer deadline and some other stuff we've got some guests probably coming up in the next couple of weeks as well but until then don't forget to check the Stadio out just play us on Spotify and speaking of which we're playing out on The Danger by Hedley Bennett and Bim Sherman.

58:27Ryan Hunn: Anything you would like to add, Musogong?

58:30Musa Okwonga: Nothing further.

58:31Ryan Hunn: Everyone, much love. Have a great week. Back with you either late Wednesday or early Thursday. See you then. Say they never know what the day there will be Until it happens to them Until it happens to them A minute stretch on a part of the rest of None shall escape no way I said oh what a situation Look up look down look all around If they sleep they fall into a trap Say they never know what the danger will be Until it happen to them Until it happen to them Say they never know Say they never know Say they never know And we never know Administration of unaggressors Their work they show Just like a living hell When they fall Their happiness becomes sadness And they don't know what to do They say, arch, if they didn't know, it would not happen to them.

59:54Ryan Hunn: It would not happen to them. Administration of firebreakers. None shall escape no way. I said, oh, what a situation. They look up, look down, look all around. If they sleep, they fall into a trap They never know what the danger will be And they'll be the only time Until it happens They never know They never know They never know

1:00:53Thank you.