Looking back on the season and ahead to the World Cup

0:22Musa Okwonga: Hello and welcome back to the Study of a Podcast. I'm Mr. Okwonga. I'm Ryan Hunn. Ryan, how are you doing?

0:28Ryan Hunn: Doing all right, thanks man.

0:29Musa Okwonga: How are you? listen I'm liberated is it because you haven't been watching that much football it's partly that also because I caught up with my mentor at my old uni recently and I was at this feijoada in Berlin you know these are listen the feijoada those who know their heads know that Brazilians man they're literally cooking out here so I just ate ate Brazilian food and drank cappurinhas most of Sunday and yeah that was my that's why I'm good at I went on Pep Guardiola on us

1:00Ryan Hunn: do you know what I realised I did last week I watched basically a film a night for the first time in ages have you seen Backrooms yet? no no yeah I've not been I want to go to the cinema to watch that I watched My Father's Shadow is it good? I've not seen it amazing Akinola Davis Jr and Duval Timothy on the soundtrack wow very very good and Shopey Durasu as well yes amazing actor and the two kids in it are amazing great great great film so so good And I watched The Sound of Falling, which is very much... Have you seen The White Ribbon?

1:31Musa Okwonga: No, no, no.

1:31Ryan Hunn: The Hanukkah film. Oh, you love the Hanukkah? I mean, it's Spain nil, Sweden nil, isn't it?

1:40Musa Okwonga: Yes.

1:42Ryan Hunn: It's Backrooms good, yeah? I loved it. It looks great.

1:46Musa Okwonga: I also am a sucker for that stuff. I was obsessed with YouTube series, both by Kane Pixels and Complex Research. so they're kind of the two best creators of the backrooms law or the two best interpreters I would say of the backrooms law they didn't create it but they interpreted it very well but I feels very much like a film

2:05Ryan Hunn: for the modern internet era it's amazing it's amazing feels like all of that crew are growing up and they're all making movies now yeah totally

2:14Musa Okwonga: yeah and I say as well backrooms there's going to be a sequel as well oh yeah yeah it seems like it box office smash

2:22Ryan Hunn: I feel like this is going to be like a proper series.

2:27Musa Okwonga: He said he'll never use AI either. Oh, good. Yeah, he said that just came out the other day. His, by the way, for those who haven't checked out Kane Parsons, his interviews are hilarious. He's so funny. You know, like I was talking to my friend, the great Rosie Knight, does a great podcast over X-ray vision. And she's an amazing cultural critic. And she said he's on a generational run of interviews. now which is funny because Ryan Coogler right bring back directors doing incredible interviews Coogler and Parsons are cooking out here anyway we should talk about some football

3:01Ryan Hunn: we should probably talk about some football before we do we hope everyone's staying safe and well wherever you are and a quick bit of admin if you are listening to this on the free feed go back and check the episode before this you got an episode on Friday which featured a section from two recent Patreon podcasts one with Neil Atkinson from the Anfield Rap talking about Liverpool and another one with John McKenzie from Tifo and The Athletic. We talked a bit about his new book and the Spectre of Pep, tactically some Premier League stuff. Amazing book. Go back and check those and if you like what you hear and you want to sign up for Stadio, go to patreon.com forward slash Stadio.

3:34Ryan Hunn: Pick your membership, either a podcast membership where you will get three ad-free episodes every week in full through the World Cup or if you want to sign up for the Stadio Social Club, you get all that plus access to the Stadio Social Club Discord. You can chat with everyone through the World Cup and we also have live Discord hangouts and stuff like that and other perks. So if you want to go and sign up and get every Stadio episode in the World Cup, patreon.com forward slash Stadio. We're going to be doing one more this week. I think we are doing an episode on Friday and that will be Patreon.

4:11Ryan Hunn: And then...

4:11Musa Okwonga: After the curtain raiser.

4:13Ryan Hunn: Yes. And then we mentioned it last week, but every Monday on the free feed, you'll still get an episode through the World Cup. for those on the free feed. I think that's all the admin. Oh, just a quick shout out. Again, South Bank Centre show the Thursday after the World Cup final with Nish Kumar. Go and get your tickets. Stadio live at the South Bank.

4:37Musa Okwonga: Weird question. Is there any reason why Mexico-South Africa is also the World Cup first game as it was in 2010? So what's the symmetry there? Is that some like... I don't know.

4:44Ryan Hunn: I kind of love it though.

4:45Musa Okwonga: I know it's a vibe. I'm like, but it just feels right. Like the vibiest, It's like two of the Vibers supports. Oh man, I wish Max could go ahead more again. Can I say the food? Oh yeah, yeah. Oh my goodness. Actually, can I say, arguably that's the food cup final. That's the food cup final.

5:02Ryan Hunn: I think that's a big shout. That's a big shout. Go against the game. It's a front, it's a front.

5:06Musa Okwonga: Come at me. Okay, listen. Let's do a bracket. Let's do a bracket. Okay, that's the food cup final. For me, I don't, I'm not seeing anyone that's beating that at the moment. At the moment?

5:17Ryan Hunn: You're saying like.

5:18Musa Okwonga: Mexico, South Africa. Food doesn't, food's in good form at the moment. Food Cup final, Mexico, South Africa. You heard it here first. Come at me. Oh no, oh Moosa. Go on then. If anyone's thinking

5:28Ryan Hunn: about emailing us, don't. Just tweet Moosa or whatever it is. If you think I'm wrong,

5:33Musa Okwonga: send me food samples to prove me wrong. I'll pick them up from the local members. I'm not doing this again.

5:38Ryan Hunn: I'm not doing this again. We've got a long tournament. I'm not doing this now. I'm hanging on as it is. Five and a half weeks. We will talk a little bit about the World Cup in part of today's show. What we're going to do is we're going to talk a little bit about some highlights of the season, just a few each. Bit of a season wrap-up, domestic season. And then we will just talk a little bit about the World Cup stuff. Before we get going, first of all, we just want to say a shout-out to Christian Eriksen, who thankfully is okay. He collapsed on the pitch again following that time he did in the Euros in 2021 in Denmark's friendly against Ukraine.

6:17Ryan Hunn: he released a statement to pass on saying he was fine and he passed his best to the teammates, he apparently walked into the ambulance and he's doing okay which is amazing news and just rest up and hope he's doing okay but scary moments again man and you can see it kind of brought back a lot of memories for a lot of that Danish side so I'm just glad he's okay man because that would have just been way too much shout out to Christian Eriksen and rest up and get well soon. On a more positive note, shout out Vissal Kobe, who won the J League 100-Year Vision League, which is the tournament that the J League brought in until they switched to an autumn to summer season to match the European calendar.

7:00Ryan Hunn: So, shout out to Vissal Kobe.

7:02Musa Okwonga: Huge congratulations.

7:04Ryan Hunn: Right. Dude, we're going to pick out some personal highlights of the season. Maybe a few each, just because we don't want to have to wait until the football things to be grateful for episode or stadios episode yeah because we've still got that's another six and a bit months away so go on Musa what's what was one thing that was positive for you from the football season it could be as personal as you like or as big

7:31Musa Okwonga: picture as you like I mentioned maybe before but Harry Wilson players like Harry Wilson going on journeys so it's not necessarily just him kind of like parrot for Ireland or other players but I I think there's something about players that have these individual quests away from the title race where they take things to like a different level. And at the end of the season, what excites me most about football is like the personal journeys and watching a player emerge with new credits. It's not just, it's called the Harry Wilson award for like the step up. Yeah. The step up award. Like when you, you have a year where it's like, we knew you were good, but like now everyone knows um so yes that so that for me has been the thing about the emergence

8:15Ryan Hunn: and actually funny enough you could put you could actually to be honest you can include

8:20Musa Okwonga: declin rice in it even though he's well known yeah because in terms of how a player ended a season you know more famously like michael elisa um i would also put firman lopez in there firman lopez emerging as someone who oh my god this guy's like stone cold legit like it's one where the MC that everyone says they can't make a huge album. Look at the Fujis. Look at the Fujis with the score. The Fujis put out Blunted on Reality. Everyone heard the talent and they went away and came back with the score. And it was like, okay, they're undeniable. So yeah, there was, for me, one of the big highlights was, you know, your junior Kruppi as well.

8:55Musa Okwonga: A player with the talent who becomes undeniable. So that for me is the, yeah. I think that's a really good one. That's a highlight for me.

9:02Ryan Hunn: That is a nice one because I feel like so many people get critiqued ways it feels quite often that especially british media love a pile on on certain players you know the amount of times one of one of my real gripes with football coverage i think in a way and i don't want to sound soft but it's when people just call top tier professional footballers rubbish yeah because there's just no there's just there are no top tier rubbish footballers there's just by the fact that they're the very top two. And I think it's just really good sometimes whether each season these players emerge that are kind of universally lauded and praised through that particular season.

9:45Ryan Hunn: Do you know what I throw in there this season as well? I throw in Marcus Rashford because I think that a lot of people saw that move to Barcelona and were like, yeah, good luck, mate. And we're waiting for him to really, really just be on the bench all season, not contribute and the fact that he contributed in a league title his first yeah yeah his first league title but also consistently in the Champions League like the Newcastle game at St. James' Park in the group phase I remember was a bit like wow because he came home and just lit it up and everyone was like oh shit and I think that was really big for him because we don't know what his future holds yet in terms of where he'll be but I think what he has proved again and I think this follows up the Villa loan because I think he did well at Villa as well and if he'd stayed there I think he would have done really well this season for them I saw a few rumours about him potentially going back to Villa but I think it's a wage issue with Marcus if he's I think he's one of those if he's prepared to take a big dip in salary he will end up in a really good spot

10:51Musa Okwonga: he's a funny one I think he's one one of those players who come up in conversation a lot where Evan goes, like who has got the highest ceiling as an attacker in world football? I think Marcus Rashford comes up in a top 10 all the time. Like when you hear Hansi Flick and the teammates talk about him and go like he's this, he's that. Like good example, that free kick that he scored is Real Madrid. He didn't want to shoot.

11:13Ryan Hunn: Yeah, yeah. And then you have Pedri.

11:15Musa Okwonga: Now that, what that tells you about his, how he envisages his capabilities and how others do. And they will look at him and be like, I'm sure there'll be players who look back at Marcus Rashford years later and be like that guy's only challenge is he didn't know how good he was do you know what that is though what's that that's an actual pass first striker that's what yeah it is it is right that's that's what well look i've said many times i know he's probably no concern i've been clinging to this hope that one day rash will be harry kane's successor i don't think will happen now but if there was a player that i could say that had the skill set to do what he does or to do some version of it, it's Rashford.

11:56Musa Okwonga: Rashford is so clear of any other central strike, in my opinion. Yeah, anyway. Fingers crossed. You know what?

12:02Ryan Hunn: I'm not even going to speculate where he goes because the last couple of weeks have been wild for that. When we did the episode with John McKenzie, it looked very likely that Iriola was going to go somewhere in Europe. Yeah. Or changed. And we actually had like a couple of, like, there were some strong links to a couple of clubs in Europe that looked way more likely. The Liverpool thing didn't even really feel like a factor. And then, honestly, four or five days later, it's the fact that he...

12:26Musa Okwonga: He would have transformed AC Milan, dude. Oh, yeah. He would transform anyone. He would transform anyone.

12:31Ryan Hunn: I think it's going to be amazing for Liverpool. It might take a little... Well, it might not even take a while, but I feel like Liverpool... We said this with Neil on the episode last week. It reminds me a little bit, potentially, of the same kind of feeling I got when they got Klopp.

12:51Musa Okwonga: he's amazing dude yeah I love him I think it's going to be great it's a perfect it's a perfect appointment yeah

12:58Ryan Hunn: alright highlight for me I feel as and it was a personal one it was a game I was at it was the Copa del Rey final and the reason that I want to bring this up was because it felt like I talked about this a little bit at the time I think but there are certain times in football where it feels like a real privilege to either watch something you know there have been games you and I do this quite a lot because we are fundamentally football softies we've talked about it before where we've been watching finals or people get promoted or people win stuff or people even go deep into tournaments they didn't expect to go to.

13:29Ryan Hunn: Something that means so much to a club and you feel like it's a real privilege to get to witness that being at the Copa del Rey final in Seville and seeing that Real Sociedad side under Pellegrino Matarazzo who's the first US born coach to win a trophy in a top five men's league in Europe against Atleti who are really gunning for a trophy remember this is a season where Atleti had their eyes on winning the Coppa and the Champions League they really went for both and they've come up short in both this was not a half half-arsed Atleti team they pushed like Raul said I said I pushed them took the lead twice Atleti equalised twice they took them twice and they won on penalties and I think that just being there and especially at the end and I've talked about this just seeing the a lot of that I can't remember how many it was now but there was over double digits players there come up through the youth team and a load of them got on the pitch as well for Real Sociedad and seeing them all there and seeing how personal it meant to them and seeing them celebrate with the fans afterwards it just I told you we did that episode at the time and I'm sorry for laboring the point here but it is something and I've said this to a few people recently because we've been you know just conversations that I've had about stuff this season the stress of the Premier League especially from an Arsenal point of view and having that stuff just being so relentless to be able to step outside of that and go to see a club lift a trophy in front of fans for the first time in 40 odd years just felt unbelievably special and something I genuinely I know it kind of sounds like I'm hamming it up a bit and I'm sorry but I genuinely want to forget that it will be something that I will remember for the rest of my life and it was amazing

15:28Musa Okwonga: it was absolutely incredible I love that you mentioned this because the energy the memories the fans and what it means like so much about it's so hard to feel stuff today compared to let's say like the mid nineties, this is a very Western European context. I hasten to add where things were more affordable. You could afford to go and see your favorite band live. The only thing that stopped you getting a ticket was if they sold out too quick. Now the ticket can be available and you can't afford it. Right. That is, I mean, it's a different world. Like, like seeing like, I don't know the roots of the jazz cafe, like seeing your favorite art, like this stuff felt more attainable, like joy.

16:09Musa Okwonga: It did feel primarily financial reasons felt more attainable and the financial mismanagement, the financial gaps in football now you look at like the UEFA Cup final was at Parma Marseille in like the late 90s Alivez Liverpool you look how stacked those teams were you look at the talent like those teams now would be on the bench at like Parma Marseille a lot of those players would not be starting they'd be on the bench at big clubs now right yeah so there's something about watching a club that is so rooted in this community and actually both clubs to their credit are rooted in communities to see them go head to head and to see the winner come out And it means so much like culturally and socially.

16:47And it's invigorating.

16:49Musa Okwonga: It was a really special moment. Yeah, it's beautiful. And I want to go to my next highlight as a segue. It works quite well. Actually, what Glasner did at Crystal Palace, completing the arc and winning the Conference League. I mention this because in the tradition of everything you've said and the continuity of that, Glasner achieved what he achieved at Crystal Palace. It doesn't matter if Crystal Palace never win another trophy in terms of what he's done. and of course the Palace fans, they're going to want more naturally. But in terms of like a team that achieved its destiny, this man presided over two of the best playmakers of the modern era, Elisa and Eze.

17:27Musa Okwonga: Mark Gay went off to, Gay as well leaving. Esmail Assar, one of the low-key, like most dynamic and decisive players in the modern game that like cup tournaments have seen. Esmail Assar at the scene for like some of the greatest triumphs for club and country. and Glasner to leave like triumphant. I mean, it's such a, it's the manager equivalent of like Roy the Rovers. It's absolutely amazing. And I was talking to my friend Danny, he'll appreciate this again, the shout out, but like we're chatting the weekend about this and even the Macclesfield loss was part of the law, you know, because that was quite a palace experience.

18:03Musa Okwonga: This guy went in and felt everything, like the full experience.

18:06Ryan Hunn: Hey, the darkness always comes before the door.

18:08Musa Okwonga: Exactly. And also like just the way that they, you know, to credit to them, like the way they engaged with the Rio fans afterwards because they knew like there was a mismatch financially but also they knew they were in a real final there they were in a real game so something about that was so wholesome I mean my final highlight is related to that it was wasn't so much wholesome but it was it was football like it was football as I recognized it from the playground and the joy and like even down to like it sounds a bit okay look football softies whatever people can call us that but like even down to look i loved playing football i played it 11 aside until my knee kind of gave out i don't really play much anymore although i might play another few days um and the thing i loved about it actually it sounds weird to say this at the end of the game when you lose and you compete fairly and you look across at your opposite you know player and you're like we were in a scrap there and that was incredible and the handshake and the respect of, yeah, we got cooked or whatever, but, and like winning was, of course, it was lovely, but you lost the game and you've been in a match.

19:12Musa Okwonga: And like, when I saw that, when I saw the Crystal Palace-Ryo final and how it was competed and the way that like Ryo, as devastated as they were, their energy was incredible after that game. And Crystal Palace fans didn't rub it in their faces. They were classy as hell. I was like, that is the football I recognize. I think this is why these are my highlights of the season as I think about it. the common thread they're very different the common thread is this is football as i love and recognize it whether it's harry wilson breaking through or crystal palace like going on an incredible trophy run this is football as i recognize it it's not just what they want it's how they conducted themselves as they did it it's been it's been amazing yeah because i think we

19:53Ryan Hunn: talk quite a lot about the you know the way that football goes and for example you know the premier league is now essentially the de facto super league financially and it's and it's something that we are worried genuinely worried about the future in terms of whether those premier league clubs break away to such a point where it becomes you know the premier league and everything else which it kind of already is but it's been able to the champions league has been able to withstand that to a degree it's just really cool to see moments like that popping up within that yes i I agree.

20:25Musa Okwonga: I agree. You know,

20:27Ryan Hunn: even like Rio this season, like Rio's league form, I think, has been kind of like the fact that they even got to the final is genuinely incredible. Or like Freiburg, like Freiburg get into the Europa League final. Unreal. And you look at the mismatch between them and Villa from a financial point of view. It's kind of bizarre that they get there. Yeah. One of the things I find really exciting about the Arayola appointment in Liverpool is that Arayola has a track record of improving places, improving teams that he's gone to and outperforming really what they should do. Did it at Rio, did it at Bournemouth.

21:03Ryan Hunn: He's going to coach the hell. And if you can take, but I think there's a real thing coming with that element of coaching where those kind of managers can take that into a team or a club like Liverpool. And then if you get that right, it's so exciting. It's actually one of the things that Lewis Enrique has done an amazing job at. He's turned

21:22Musa Okwonga: John Everson into like the young Luca

21:24Ryan Hunn: Yeah, because he's essentially coaching that side in a way that he would do if, for example, they wouldn't be the same, but you could imagine the same mentality if Luis Enrique was coaching Bournemouth.

21:37Musa Okwonga: Yes, yes.

21:38Ryan Hunn: Do you know what I mean? And I think there's a really interesting thing there that he's managed to shift the dial. But yeah, man, no, I completely agree. And I'm glad we kind of have done this little wrap-up episode with stuff like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it. It felt so stressful this season. and it felt a lot of the World Cup is on the horizon and there was all this drama about it and everyone looked a bit knackered and it was it's just good to remind us that there have been some really cool things that have happened through the season Incredible, yeah I kind of have to go I have to do a couple of Arsenal ones if that's alright Yeah, go for it Just because the two I think winning the league was really amazing and I think that what you've seen after that we've done a couple of episodes talking about this, we did one full one after they won the league but also last week about the parade and stuff so I don't want to kind of go over it too much but we've had conversations all season about maybe not on the podcast maybe we did mention it on the podcast once or twice about how I think it would be a good we did it on one of the Discord hangouts about how I think it would be a good thing for the media coverage of the Premier League in general if Arsenal got it over the line.

22:52Ryan Hunn: Because so much of what people are exposed to and are fed is whipping up the Arsenal lot because it's really good for numbers. I think what's been really cool is that I think a lot of people have seen how culturally huge the club is, which has been really cool. I think it's reminded people of, I talked about this about the parade, about it was just really nice to see that kind of outpouring of joy from such a diverse community and also just the win in the league thing you know and the specific thing was Ebreche Eze actually because I can't think of a better arc really yeah yeah unreal unreal just winning that winning uh scoring the winner in the FA Cup final to win Palace's first trophy leaving for the club that you supported all your life after nearly going to their rivals than winning their first Premier League in 22 years and getting to lift the trophy at the place that you left that you're still kind of beloved in.

23:55Ryan Hunn: It just all felt a bit like...

23:57Musa Okwonga: It's perfection. It's perfection. And look, he'll feel bad about the Champions League final and penalty. But again, that penalty wasn't decisive.

24:05Ryan Hunn: And also the response from the parade, that's why the parade was so important. I said this last week, but that just nipped a lot of that stuff in the bud straight away. You know, there was the shirt sales, Gabriel's shirt increased by over 300 % in the days after the Champions League final

24:22Musa Okwonga: and rightly so Gabriel was there from the beginning of it Gabriel was there before look if someone had said to you five years ago oh we're going to win the league in five years Gabriel might have been the only football in the dressing room who believed it ironically well no coincidence he's only on the left from those days so Gabriel may have flashed back to like remember when this was bleak this was really really bleak like to rebuild you consider that the person that was the first to come for him was Marquinhos, right? Marquinhos who'd lost in 2020 himself, but even Marquinhos had not had to rebuild from such a low base.

24:56Musa Okwonga: Like the emotional journey that Marquinhos saw his friend Gabriel go on in the last five, six years was far, far longer. Arsenal were out of the picture five years ago. And now you're in a position. Yeah, they were joking. They were a joke. They were not a consideration. They were not in the conversation. So for Eze to go on that arc, that's incredible for Arsenal to win I'm very happy because like you said it freshens up punditry and there's some incredible voices in punditry who are waiting I think to fill that void who have said very smart things about not just this Arsenal team but like developments in modern football and part of me is like great now that everyone's, now that banter doesn't fill the airways anymore let's just move on and have like

25:40Ryan Hunn: actual conversations about what's

25:42Musa Okwonga: actually happening here because that to me is super exciting and I'm really looking forward to that. Obviously I mentioned John McKenzie's work before, but he's just one of many people doing incredible work. James Alcott as well has had a great season too, I think. I've loved his explainers. I'm just looking forward to like talking ball again, like actually talking proper ball, you know, let's do it. Ball, no, I'm going to start a long game. Listen, there it is. You heard it here first, you didn't. My final highlight on that note, it's a bit more of a look I know it's a glitzy fixture and I know there was a ton of money involved and all the rest of it but I think PSG 5, Bayern 4 just for watching it and going like wow just for watching, just for the wow factor of it reminded me of when there's NBA All-Star games where everyone is trying to be MVP where everyone is trying to be MVP You know, there's ones where it's like, you had Michael Jordan in the mix and Evan was like, he was like, I'm going to get my 25.

26:46Musa Okwonga: And it was just like, Evan was going all in. It felt like that. It felt like everyone showed up. Every attacker showed up for that game. Some of the defenders, maybe not so much, but certainly the attackers went all in. And it was one of the few games where everyone was brilliant. Pretty much. Every attacker was brilliant. And yeah, it was probably the most exhilarating. absolutely wild that's the most online game

27:10Ryan Hunn: of the season

27:10Musa Okwonga: yeah it's the most I have to mention just because it was a total anomaly it didn't fit in like it didn't fit in any of the discourse about what the Champions League had been or what the major leagues had been it was the Bohemian Rhapsody of the football league yes yes and you know it's weird you know it's weird and there were like peaks within peaks yeah and the other thing I love this analogy the thing is it's weird because Barca Inter felt like it belonged that semi-final felt like it belonged to last season's football, but this was an anomaly. Like when alien historians study from a distance, they'll be like, what was that doing there?

27:45Musa Okwonga: Did you put that in the right file? Did you? So yeah, that's not the right epoch. But yeah, so that for me, just watching like two teams, just like end to end was pretty cool. Yeah.

27:58Ryan Hunn: My final highlight is Berta Glimt. Oh my goodness. Because this team didn't even win the league. They didn't even win the Norwegian League and they're currently having played a game more they're four points behind Viking in the league and the run they went on in the Champions League and some of the football they played was unbelievable unreal you know we talked about Iriola and Bournemouth and stuff like that before and it was just there were echoes of that but obviously on a much smaller budget and I think it was it was specifically going to Inter at San Siro oh my goodness and getting out of there all right and going through to the next round truly incredible genuinely amazing and that having not won a champions league game before to then draw uh they drew with spurs didn't they and then they had that like run where they drew with and beat city and it kind of started to pick up and you were like oh my god i love how pep is the

28:56Musa Okwonga: beginning of a lot of people's origin story look you beat pep you believe you believe yeah exactly that's it because he's kind of like the final boss of tactics right so if you do it against that guy and honestly some of the football they played is just off the scale off the scale I wonder what's happening with that right back in particular Frederik Schroevold because he was mind-blowing that guy the right back and he's only 22 but a glimpse and I was like that guy could play anywhere he'll end up in Brian it's unreal he's unreal he's un like the whole team brilliant but that guy in particular we'd seen some of the others but that guy is and of course that they got cooked by sporting who a very fine team as well a very very fine team who i think saw them coming and studied them and basically worked out all the pressure points and i always had a bit of a fear that it would be them that turned them over because i feel like the bigger clubs wouldn't fly at them with the same approach or the same intensity yeah but actually sporting were like no full court press the only way to stop these people is they can play out from everywhere they're actually multiple playmakers actually Bodo Glimt you can say this is a bit of a hot take they were kind of a version of they had the confidence of PSG in terms of like playmaking on their own six yard box and Sporting were like okay if you want to do it there we're gonna like we're gonna hunt you in your goal line same way to beat you but yeah that's a great story there was a I think there was a bit of a muted end because they lost so heavily in that final game yeah I think it killed

30:28Ryan Hunn: the vibe a bit but in terms of a journey because it was it felt quite routine didn't it that that sporting victory whereas remember when Ajax went quite deep in 2019 but the Spurs victory was so dramatic over them that it yeah it it kind of it was it froze them in time as like a team that was

30:47Musa Okwonga: eternally denied whereas this was so conclusive I think they also looked it was the first time in that run they looked a bit maybe overawed is a bit strong yeah actually no they were they weren't playing they didn't they didn't look as confident in that game as they looked and it was loud as

31:05Ryan Hunn: well in lisbon by the way it was you know what i think it was and i can't remember if this exactly matches up but i think it roughly does is that their form kick-started when their league campaign finished before christmas oh interesting and it's and then they went out to sporting i think just as their league returned oh right okay i see so it was almost perfectly sandwiched between the league season. I mean, there was loads we could go through, but we just thought we'd kind of chat about a couple of some highlights in the season just because, man, a lot happened this season. Yeah, yeah. A hell of a lot.

31:35Ryan Hunn: Too much. For sure. And do you know what? There's already too much happening next season because Florentino Perez won the election to remain Real Madrid president, which now means that the green light has given for Jose Mourinho to take over to become the Real Madrid head coach or manager based on a contract that was already signed that was depending on Perez's victory in the election. We actually did a bit on this on last, I think it was last Monday's show.

32:05Musa Okwonga: Let's say huge victory.

32:07Ryan Hunn: Yeah, yeah, huge victory. And we cut it out because we actually realised that the Jose Mourinho appointment was dependent on the Perez victory. But now it's happened, Jose Mourinho is now returned, And it is all set to return to Real Madrid as head coach.

32:23Musa Okwonga: How many years since he left? 13? Gosh, it's 13. Yeah, about that.

32:29Ryan Hunn: Very different managers than the one that left. I personally cannot see the upside in this from a squad point of view. I think especially with what happened in the Champions League between Benfica and Real Madrid and Prostiani and Vinicius Jr. and Jose Mourinho's comments afterwards and the stance that he took. I don't know, man. I feel like, look, maybe we overthink this stuff, right? Maybe it's not felt as deeply in the dressing room. I genuinely can't. I can believe it, but I can't believe that Perez has brought Mourinho back, especially after what happened this season. And that strikes me as someone who doesn't really have the interest of a certain core of players at heart.

33:13Ryan Hunn: but is that really a surprise for Paris?

33:15Musa Okwonga: I don't you know what it is maybe we're like look we're not

33:21Musa Okwonga: how do I say this best I am not of a a lot of type of man person who likes this kind of like buffalo approach to society where it's like let's buttheads let's get angry let's get brutal debate me yeah debate me and get brutal and they're like oh they're all friends afterwards this is not that type of like Like friendship interaction is just too, I just, I zone out for that stuff. And maybe we're just so detached from that strand of masculinity that it's totally normal for two people to go at each other and then we'll be kissing makeup later. Maybe it's like that. Maybe Mourinho will go in there and charm them all and it'll be fine.

34:01Musa Okwonga: And knowing Real Madrid and that club is just a unique, it's a one-off in that way. It might be fine. but then again having said all of that didn't we say that when certain players were signed by madrid we were worried the egos would clash and it was fine for the first 18 months two years to the point where oh we were wrong and it turns out actually no it was just the fuse was very very long but eventually exploded like when when um kilian mbappe went to the bernabeu when trent went there i was like there are too many players that dressing that want to be the main character and I know that it's Madrid and you've always had main characters but it felt like there have also been hierarchies at Madrid and it felt like you all want the mic at once and that's going to be a problem now again for the first 18 months that diagnosis was incorrect right but ultimately proved that's what happened and the Mourinho thing it feels combustible because you had major club legends coming out against him the presidential race the legacy of this presidential race will be that There are major names like Raul, like Hierro, and like Casillas that came out and said, we don't want you here.

35:13Musa Okwonga: And Mourinho's walking back into that. And Casillas is much more influential, maybe dangerous now that he's not in it. Well, Ridley Farns will be like, what are you talking about? Now that Casillas is not actually attached to the club and is just speaking his mind from a distance, you've got all of that swirl going on. Look, I don't think it's dramatic to say I don't think this ends well. No, I don't. because I don't even think that Mourinho forget any of his personal relationships I don't think he has the tactical chops to overcome what Flick is doing in that league

35:43Ryan Hunn: no no I think yeah I think caveating that by saying that it wouldn't when Carlo Ancelotti went back to Real Madrid I don't think anyone would have thought that it would have maybe went the way it did and been so successful and it looked like he like it looked like his career had moved on from that from even being in consideration for Real Madrid manager I think it's going to be just either end of the spectrum everyone is going to bury the hatchet and be like hey we're fine we're going to really get behind Jose because he's going to have that siege mentality and it's us against the world and Hala Madrid and all this kind of stuff or it's going to like turbo implode

36:20Musa Okwonga: and there's no sense where there's no knowing I don't think there's

36:22Ryan Hunn: anything in the middle

36:23Musa Okwonga: and there's no knowing which way it will go either no because the charm offences could fail you know

36:28Ryan Hunn: Mourinho is one of the few managers, not one of the few, but he's well maybe one of the few because I feel like the new generation of managers have a different aura about them a lot of the time. But he is one of the like a lot of the generation who will now play under him in this Real Madrid side would have grown up seeing the cult of Mourinho. And I do think there is, among some players, I do think there is a bit of a law with that. There is, there is. I get to play for you know I think Ancelotti still had it in a very different way you know what I mean definitely I just wonder like what the what the relationship is going to be like with Vinicius and what the relationship would be like with a number of that dressing room the one final thing I'll say on it is that talk about contrasting summers for Real Madrid a really bold seemingly new statement of intent last summer hiring Jabby Alonso which was like alright look that was a year that They kind of got found out in the Champions League.

37:29Ryan Hunn: I've said this before, but I think that Arsenal leg spooked them. I remember the way Jude Bellingham was talking after the game and the interview, he gave a really good interview. I don't think they were expecting to be so comprehensively outplayed in two legs by Arsenal because they thought they had the ability. And you could see this realisation that they needed more than just personnel and talent. And we don't fully know what's going on with the Javi Alonso stuff a lot of time there's a lot of stuff come out about it but I think that the position that they were in at the time that they fired him compared to what happened afterwards you would say it wasn't the right thing to do and then if Mourinho is the answer the following summer you're going from one end to the other end straight away in this context this is it

38:18Musa Okwonga: in the context of Real Madrid Mourinho is the answer I don't like the question I like him for different jobs I think he'd be an interesting shout for the Portugal national team, for example, in the right context. I don't think he's the perfect person for that set of players, but I can see a better fit there. Not because he's Portuguese, but because of like, I think you need a certain figurehead to coach the Portugal national side. You need a certain fearlessness. And I think he fits that profile, maybe not tactically, but I think in terms of the fearlessness, but Madrid, I mean, Valverde the Tremany still has to be resolved.

38:55Musa Okwonga: What the hell? There's just, the thing, the thing I don't like about this appointment is there's too many unknowns. And if you're appointing someone to coach a club like that, there needs to be less noise. It needs to be a better fit. Well, well, and thing is, I tell you what, I think we're going to find out pretty quickly whether there's fit or not. It's one of those ones where it will quickly become apparent whether this is going to work or not. I think.

39:22Ryan Hunn: we will be there we will be there we will be there alright final thing to chat about today before we go the men's 2026 World Cup starts this week on Thursday in Mexico the USA and Canada it's going to be a long tournament it is

39:39Musa Okwonga: my first question is who's going to get the ball off Spain true

39:42Ryan Hunn: I did a bracket the other day and I don't know if I just I very much don't know ball but I ended up with a Spain Germany final

39:51Musa Okwonga: yeah I can see that look who's going to get the ball to Spain

39:53Ryan Hunn: and I picked Spain to win actually

39:55Musa Okwonga: again I think in a tournament like this which is so long right extra round it's going to come down to tactical minds squad depth ball retention

40:08Ryan Hunn: who's just less knackered

40:09Musa Okwonga: ball retention and Spain will keep the ball they'll keep the ball for an extra round and they will pass pass pass pass until there are no opponents left and I think it will be them I just think that team the ability to control games they're in a class by themselves you look at Turkey Turkey's a good side and what they did to them I implore everyone that hasn't seen it to go back and watch the 6-0 and you watch the first goal of that game that is what Spain are cooking the fact that Laminya Mal is coming back and hasn't played since April and that's not a hassle for any other team at the tournament that would be oh my god is he going to be fit it's like yeah he's cool it's come

40:44Ryan Hunn: the length of this tournament throws up some interesting I think it helps fitness issues because yeah Yeah, but I think that having a player like Laminya Mal who can afford to miss just the groups entirely if you want to keep him fresh and bring him into the back end of the tournament, I think you're going to have to see a lot of squad management, I think, as well. look I think there's been so many conversations about the World Cup there have been similarities in the previous two World Cups as well where there's a lot of concern and angst and anger and criticism rightly so about a lot of the stuff that's going with it I think a lot of that will fall away when the football starts as long as there aren't incidents and issues going on around that but I think that the problem is there are so many with this world cup it's like the inverts almost like the inverse sports washing specifically from the usa side of it as well where usually people are trying to paint a great picture of their country and invite people to make sports trashing sports trashing you know i mean certain personnel have struggled to get in for visas and certain personnel have haven't received visas um from coaching staff and stuff like that we're already seeing photographers being

41:55Musa Okwonga: denied access was the iraq national team uh photographer not being allowed access players aren't being allowed in. It's a genuine, they cross-examined like one of the Iraq national team players for hours at Chicago O 'Hare Airport before letting him in. Like this is, it's already happening. It's the first World Cup, and I said this many times before, apologies. The first World Cup where one of the hosts doesn't actually seem to want a lot of the people there. The one thing that's interesting to me from a non-football perspective, so we talked about Spain's prospects. I think they are, for me, the clear, not the clear favourite, but they are the clear, they're the one that's in the conversation.

42:39When I look at them and go, who's in that midfield?

42:42Musa Okwonga: Zubimendi might not like start. Rodri might not start. That's how good that they might, but they might not, right? Because there's so much depth there. But in football terms, in non-football terms, the most interesting aspect to me is this is the first time that the current president of the u.s has been in the same room as an object or an individual that is a bigger deal than them like that world cup and like we we saw this individual couldn't keep their hands off the world club the club world cup the world cup being in a room without i mean what is that individual going to do to it like i i think i think of a thing actually it's going to spin him out a bit i think being in a space where there is a more powerful object or individual than him in this space.

43:25Musa Okwonga: Yeah, that's going to be interesting. And don't get me wrong, I think this tournament, FIFA run a tight ship on the pitch. I've got issues, of course, you know, this is something I've spoken about many times on different platforms, with their management off the field. But there are so many unknowns for them and I'd be very worried. Look, ultimately, people are just going to tune in and watch the football anyway. And I don't think that this World Cup will shift the needle societally, politically, whatever, or culturally but I think it could be the beginning of something I think it could be

43:55Ryan Hunn: Yeah I agree

43:56Musa Okwonga: and the kind of mobilisation we could see in the wake of this World Cup and around it will be significant in the years to come I think we'll look back at this World Cup and be like oh yeah that thing that happened started here

44:10Ryan Hunn: Yeah man I mean look I'm very excited to see some teams playing the first time qualifiers that's going to be amazing but you know some of the countries there are on like travel bans and fans of that team can't go and it's wild there's so much icky stuff around the world cup but i just hope that well first of all i just hope that everyone's safe and that there aren't any you know major major incidents that and i think that's a real concern for a lot of people you know i think there's a lot of anxiety around this world cup and i understand why some people aren't engaging with it at all much like i've understood why people don't and haven't with previous ones you know we probably hold that uh i'm kind of speaking for you but i think i hold that kind of like for so long football has just come along with has gone hand in hand with some really grim shit and you've had to kind of uh hold and separate where whenever you need to and or kind of talk about it in the context of certain things going on and i think that we've just we've just reached almost ironically we've reached the most american version of that in a sense of like like this is the equivalent of that it's the jumbo sized everything like maximum pure yeah yeah us experience of that kind of tournament the globe world cup was very much just like a sound check yes totally totally there's part of me that is really excited to see there's some amazing storylines going through the world cup from a football point of view you know you're seeing a lot of a lot of greats are potentially going to bow out you're also seeing an emergence of some who's you know who's going to be the one who like really takes that kind of uh position as being the dominant young footballer in the world you know you have things like scotland being back there and i think you know with a very real chance of getting out of that group teams like qualifying for the first time teams returning for after many many many years the football will be really good i think a lot of it or maybe you know we hope I hope it will.

46:12Ryan Hunn: There's obviously some heat issues as well. I think football in hotter conditions,

46:17Musa Okwonga: I think, is generally better because the technique comes out. Yeah. I think so, because people can't play within themselves so much. Yeah, for sure.

46:26Ryan Hunn: But yeah, I do have some real concerns about it. And I mean, also just like this, what is it, like a six day additional round in there? Can I say this as well? To get down to the round of six days. I've never had a World Cup.

46:36Musa Okwonga: Look, and look, I know everyone sort of, the World Cup starts, people fall under the spell of the football. But I've never, I had a lead up to World Cup where I was, normally there's a pre-World Cup bus. Every time there's some kind of, and I just haven't, it hasn't happened yet. It hasn't happened yet. Like the kind of, yes, there's these issues, there's these challenges, but there's also, and I'm not like, and I'm sure like my happiness for some of the players, some of the countries navigating the tournament, and just the quality of the spectacle, and maybe it's age, maybe it's whatever, but I think it's something different.

47:13Musa Okwonga: I think there's something about the way the world has been, the way that one particular host is engaged with this tournament has been, yeah, it's left a sour taste. So look, that will change. But for now, I'm like, good luck Mexico, good luck South Africa, good luck all countries competing. But my attachment to it, I think, is not what it has been before. But let's see. But that's natural. That's natural.

47:37Ryan Hunn: But I think, you know, obviously, like similar thing in different circumstances happened with the previous World Cup and then we ended up with one of the greatest World Cup finals ever

47:45Musa Okwonga: I don't think there'll be a greater one than that FIFA have been posting quite a lot on their socials they've been posting the 95 seconds between Mbappe scoring the penalty and scoring the second and it's just it's unbelievable has an athlete ever taken control of a major spectacle in such a short space of time look best of luck to the nations competing I will find my joy in it there's already a lot of joy to look forward to and yeah we'll catch you again on Friday after the first game definitely

48:18Ryan Hunn: alright let's roll we hope everyone's staying safe and well wherever you are don't forget if you want to go sign up for Stadio if you're on the free feed go to patreon.com forward slash Stadio select your membership if you just want the podcasts or if you want the Stadio social club as well come and join us for every episode through the World Cup and the support will be much appreciated also don't forget to check the Stadio Actors place on Spotify and speaking of which we're playing out on gonna get got by Triple Five Seoul because hey the World Cup's out there some teams are gonna get got man it's gonna be like some teams are gonna be oh a quick one Germany by the way killing the game with set pieces haha set piece FC

48:59Musa Okwonga: haha haha haha haha

49:01Ryan Hunn: wow haha just saying anyway ironic that Kai Havert scored a set piece against anything you would like to add Musok Gwanga nothing further all right everyone much love have a great week we'll be back with you on Friday see you then

49:38Thank you.

50:16Thank you.

50:38I love you, baby

51:20Thank you.

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