Marie-Louise Eta makes history (again) and the Premier League title race heats up

0:00Hi friends, Grace from the Working Hard podcast here. When you're stretching every dollar, a little goes a long way and Walmart Business is here to help. They make it easy to order what you need from tech and cleaning supplies to everyday essentials, all at low prices and with helpful tools like spend tracking and tax exempt purchasing for eligible organizations. Because when your operations are smooth, your impact can be bigger. Visit business.warmart.com to get started.

0:45Musa Okwonga: hello and welcome back to the studio podcast i'm miso kwanga i'm ryan hun ryan how are you doing

0:50Ryan Hunn: i'm all right thanks man i'm more chill than i thought i would have been given the results and the circumstances let's say how are you i'm good but not as good as rory mcelroy no i imagine not

1:04Musa Okwonga: no can i just say this i want to say this because i was texting a friend of mine shout out to chris um does a bit of music promo radio promo we're just chatting a friend from the london days and we were talking about royal mcelroy and the liberation that comes with winning one huge tournament you've craved your entire life and he played with liberation for the first half then i think he remembered very much where he was it's that guy that walks in the guy that walks between the kind of uh the two towers and then like looks down um but yeah he did the job and i just think there's a thing of like seeing somebody liberated when the whole world is watching expecting you to fail for years and you come through and now it's like it never he plays like some of that tournament like over the last couple of days as if like the old pain was never there.

1:53Musa Okwonga: So yeah, just really, really happy for any athlete that can do that.

1:56Ryan Hunn: That double on four very much is losing at home to Bournemouth moment, I'm hoping.

2:02Musa Okwonga: Oh no! Sympathy for any Premier League club that's playing the Champions League that comes out of that and has Iriola waiting in the weeds for you. There's no one that deserves that.

2:14Ryan Hunn: Especially when you're knackered and they've got a really long injury list. It's just like, no! And then that guy, oh no. So, here Iona just... We'll chat about that later, I'm sure. Yes, we will. But before then, we hope everyone's staying safe and well. Just a little bit of admin. We will have another Champions League show on Thursday. Patreon.com forward slash stadio if you want to go and sign up and get all of the podcasts ad-free and in full. Other bits of admin. Check out kickbacksoccer.com. Moose's piece for their newsletter went up last week. And I'm going to be on a podcast with them very soon.

2:47Ryan Hunn: So today we're going to talk a little bit about the Premier League title race stuff and also some battles going on down the bottom of the table We will shout out some of the results around Europe and we are going to focus first of all with history being made in the Bundesliga So I reckon that'll do us today So let's start in Berlin because Marie-Louise Etter, who has been a trailblazer already and we've talked about her on the show before, has been named as the interim head coach of Union's professional men's team for the rest of the season. And she is the first woman to be appointed as a manager of a men's team in one of Europe's top five leagues.

3:38Ryan Hunn: Obviously, just a staff, it's you know a manager losing their job it's never it's never something you'd like to see so yeah you have to say sympathy with Stefan Baumgart on that front however the decision to appoint Etta as head coach for the end of the season I think it's genuinely amazing and there's there's multiple reasons why but first of all thoughts Musak Wonga what I like about it I think from a football point

4:05Musa Okwonga: of view is the continuity aspect right so this is not someone who's parachuting in someone who is part of the framework been an assistant coach since 23 and just knows the kind of infrastructure that knows the club but that's really important right now like not changing too many variables the challenge you have obviously for someone like you look at Spurs in the men's game right now is bring in Deserby and then there's like cultural adjustment there will not be the cultural adjustment that you're seeing now and I think with Etta coming in will have a very keen sense, I think, of ideas that she might want her to implement.

4:40Musa Okwonga: But ultimately, when you're an assistant, you're not like a primary decision maker. You can only offer suggestions in terms of the management structure. So hopefully now she gets the place to execute. Knows the youth side, obviously is going to take over the women's team next season. It feels like it's the best possible appointment, just from a football perspective. And just in relation to her as well, just incredible. because you look at what the women's team have achieved. They've stayed up now. They guarantee they're staying up. That's fantastic for them. So she's going into a great job after this.

5:14Musa Okwonga: So there's really a great thing that it's career progression and Union showing they're an organization you can grow within. But credit again to her because if you look at her career just as a player, she really has done the rounds. Like played at a range of clubs. Germany, exactly. Like just someone who brings, if you look at, you couldn't model a better example of let's say you're like, it's like someone who's becomes a CEO of a company where they had an apprenticeship, then went away on secondment, they came back, then worked in a couple of different like floors, you know, worked in different places, worked with a couple of clients and then you just think, this is how it should look.

5:51Musa Okwonga: This is how career progression should look. This should be the model. So yeah, just really like delighted for her, you know, as a professional, but also like just as a woman who's had to make her way in a world that is obviously inimical a lot of the time to women. just phenomenal it's a great look I think the thing

6:09Ryan Hunn: that's really great about this is that she was just clearly the best candidate for the job and they haven't thought twice about it that's just it someone who's had experience around the club for a good few years now she was the first woman to be part of the men's Bundesliga coaching staff she was assistant after Urs Fischer left the club she also then took the actual she took the side for a couple of games when Bieliccia was serving a suspension Etta took the games and took the press conferences she has been around the coaching like you said the men's under 19s and she's been around the women's setup as well she's been part of the coaching staff that took them to the Bundesliga last season and she has a pro license she is the most qualified person for that job around the club.

7:05Musa Okwonga: The thing I love about it is that she's seen Union in the phases of expansion and decline, right? She's seen them. Yeah, she was there for the tournament. She knows the club feels like when it's in a place of flourishing and the difficulty. So getting, because a big part for Union is identity, right? Like for them to get out of this mess, to get out of this mix, if you see the games they've struggled in and the reasons, I think Bangor lost his job, is their failure to assert themselves in those close games against like rivals for the drop. Werder, Eidenheim obviously you know their failure to really get the job done against those teams in the same pickle as them and Hamburg as well and Union with Identity, the Union that stayed up, that flourished under Urs Fischer it was able to actually manage those games and again we know there are reasons they've lost key players, key attackers Sherald Obecker, we know all of that they've lost the kind of players that got the goal on the counter or on a set piece but she knows exactly what Union at its best feels like.

8:05Musa Okwonga: And I think that for Union to stay up identity it's more important for them I think than it is for other clubs in the same kind of jam. Because they have such a small margin for error on the financial side they have to maximise their resources and to your point about her being best placed for that I think she's the one for it. It's great. The way that the club have handled

8:24Ryan Hunn: this with just a you know they've acted quite decisively in terms of parting ways with Stefan Baungart. They're 11 points clear of the relegation zone. How many games they've got left? Five. In theory, they shouldn't go down, but I think they needed a fresh start ahead of next season. They need maybe one or two more points just to separate themselves a little bit for now, just to be super safe. I think they literally need a point. They've only won twice this year, this calendar year. Performances haven't been unbelievable. For Union, on it's um it's someone who's so well known without around the club and someone who has stepped up to high pressure high you know big spotlight coaching environments already with that men's team and just it's not it's nothing nothing it's not anything that's going to phase her it's not anything that's going to phase the club and i think that just the fact that it um it makes so much sense i think it almost adds to the historical nature of it right because she's always been a bit of a trailblazer in terms of coaching anyway in her coaching path and this is just the next logical step for her yeah and for the club to be honest and i think the fact that it has been super positively received which i think it would have been anyway but the fact that it just makes loads of sense a lot of other clubs may look at this in the future and be like oh okay there was just why are we not looking at these candidates who have all of the attributes and all of the qualities in a coach that you need and are more than qualified to do these kind of roles and yeah I'm just hoping that it paves the way for more clubs to consider a move like this as and when the time is right because I just think it's a good thing yeah yeah it's just that yeah props to Leon on for making such a decision and wish wishing marie louise the best of luck for the rest of season because i think it's a really big deal totally yeah just handled yeah handled with real class as well by everyone concerned i think the thing i like about it you look at the union

10:34Musa Okwonga: women's team union women's team as well and the types of attendances they're getting in that happens because the club is unified you know like i was talking to um uh a friend recently about this the thing i love about some of these you know spanish sports clubs you have like so barcelona madrid where you have basketball players going and watching the the football team and vice versa and it's integrated it's a real club it's a real community i feel like union as a football club is a community and so moving around within that community is just is such like a natural thing and the thing i keep coming back to is that it's about a career path in football like you talk about being able to plot a career path as an ex-player and this is absolutely what it should look like you go around you pay your dues you get some experience here and it kind of reminds me of Liverpool's boot room you know the men's team Joe Fagan Bob Paisley the boot room of people just like sharing knowledge and so when you get your go at the big job you're building on the successes and some of the failures of the previous incumbent you know similar to Freiburg situation as well like on the men's side, like just a brain's trust.

11:42Musa Okwonga: And, you know, I think the thing I love to see about it, not just from the perspective of it being groundbreaking, but also at a time when there's just so much managerial turnover and so much loss of institutional knowledge. Like when a coach goes, so much is lost and you don't get that kind of, when they leave and their coaching team leaves, it becomes almost a different culture overnight. The good thing is they can take some of the good elements and what Bamgat did was really quite good like these they were losing some of these games slim margins there's a lot of benefits positives there she can hopefully take that and build on it and we liked it we liked the appointment and he made some really good early noises actually in that job and got some decent results but again I think Union just have to find out how to scrap again they're just not quite good enough at managing games like some of the early goals they're losing they're losing goals at either end of games you know either very very early or very very late and they can't manage games.

12:38Musa Okwonga: So looking forward to seeing her bring back some of that game management for them.

12:43Ryan Hunn: Yeah, for sure. I mean, the result on the weekend, you know, Heidenheim had only won three games in the league before this weekend. And the fact that they, you know, comprehensively put three past Union, I think was a bit like, hmm.

12:58Musa Okwonga: That was the death knell. And actually, to be honest, credit for them to make the sacking now because they could have really handed her a brutal thing like they could have given another job like let's say two, three games before the end when it's like two games before the end when it's like it's really a point where every game is a must win but they acted quite decisively I think and you know they must have been considering this for a while I think yeah this decisively yeah I mean they've got

13:25Ryan Hunn: Wolfsburg at home on Saturday and that could secure them safety yeah well it could it could survive it can it can secure them automatic safety. It won't secure them like safety from the playoff. St. Pauli hosts Curln as well. So there's some big games in that bottom half of the league next week. And yeah, I think they kind of looked at the fixture list and I think they go, I'm not sure if they go to Mainz, I think they go to Mainz soon. So they're getting reunited with Urs Fischer and the way that Mainz have just shot up the table since he's taken over, that's probably, I know they lost on the weekend to Freiburg but that's probably a result that they were like we can't be banking on these kind of results down the line we need to get it done now and I think that a point in their head of the Wolfsburg game at home hopefully it will give them enough a bit of a bit of a kind of like a boost to get that done and I think that the thing about it as well is that the atmosphere is going to be amazing because the fans are going to really get behind it so totally yeah good call I think just quickly in the Bundesliga Dortmund lost at home to Bayer Leverkusen on Saturday thanks to a Robert Andrick goal and Bayern's win over St.

14:38Ryan Hunn: Pauli 5-0 at the Milan Tour means that Bayern can clinch the title this weekend.

14:45Musa Okwonga: Could have been worse. They rested a couple of big players including Harry Kane. And they've also the goal scoring record for goals in the Bundesliga I think the previous record was 102. They've broken their own record. They've broken the record. Five games to go.

14:59Ryan Hunn: The next closest They've scored 45 goals more than the next highest goal scorers in the league. It's frightening. The thing that company said about being the best team in May, not November, was kind of cold. And I kind of... As a City guy,

15:17Musa Okwonga: yeah, yeah.

15:18Ryan Hunn: Yeah.

15:19Musa Okwonga: I'll tell you what it is about that as well. Bayern are really like, they're in their groove. They currently look, they currently look frightening, I've got to say. Business is booming, but you know what really helped? Zero. The accounting platform for small businesses. I used to think spreadsheets were just part of it. Ugh. But real-time cash flow? Wow. Invoices that chase themselves? Even better. Books that automate? That's a big one. And I can keep track from my phone while I get the job done. No spreadsheet in sight. What a life. Do right by yourself and your business and search Xero for your free trial.

15:59Conditions apply. Hi friends, Grace from the Working Hard podcast here. When you're stretching every dollar, Allila goes a long way and Walmart Business is here to help. They make it easy to order what you need from tech and cleaning supplies to everyday essentials, all at low prices and with helpful tools like spend tracking and tax exempt purchasing for eligible organizations. Because when your operations are smooth, your impact can be bigger. Visit business.warmart.com to get started.

16:24Ryan Hunn: Well, should we use that as a transition to talking about groove and being in the groove in the Premier League title race because it was a huge weekend and had it not been for the Union news, we would have started with this. Arsenal losing at home to Bournemouth on Saturday lunchtime set the tone for the weekend really. Even though I thought the first half was fairly decent from a Chelsea point of view, as soon as Man City took the lead in the second half, it felt like that was it and they were very impressive in the second

17:02Musa Okwonga: yes yes yes I was wondering to the point they were so impressive I even wonder that if Kukureya hadn't been narrowly offside I still think City come back actually I just think the quality of chance they created Ray and Cherky just went to another level I mean these things could have been different Chelsea came out and quitted themselves I think fairly well early on but once City got into that groove it's the speed in which they can take games away from you. I would say there was a bit of passivity for the third goal that was disappointing from a Chelsea point of view when they were 2-0 up and maybe at some level they were like, okay, this is done.

17:35Musa Okwonga: Allowing Doku to come through like that. If you look when he first takes possession, he shouldn't really be contesting for that. And then he strives through to score the third. I wonder if there was a loss of intensity from the Chelsea team by that point. But I think those two goals in quick succession were demoralizing. There's something about City at the moment that when they go a goal up, you're like, yeah, it feels like they're just gearing up for a 1-2. Well, I think that addition of Mark Gay in January

18:03Ryan Hunn: has just given them an added defensive solidity that they didn't have at the beginning of the season. And a build-up, yeah, the build-up play. Yeah, yeah, and it just gives them a lot more security because you then have Semenyo as another attacking option who's just kind of come straight in and hit the ground running because he's proven in the Premier League. yeah I think they hit a groove at a really really really good time which has also coincided with Arsenal just completely struggling for any sense of fluidity or rhythm yeah yeah

18:35Musa Okwonga: I feel like Gueye is giving them what they wanted Gavardiel to give them at both ends so when Gavardiel came in brilliant players we know I think he really struggled defensively in the early stages but obviously Gueye knowing the league has the ability to not only defend very well and initiate attacks. That's why Liverpool wanted him so much. And I think that there's, the next five years is going to be a kind of story Liverpool fans of looking at key players they wanted like Gay and Zubimendi who went elsewhere and made, became foundational to those teams' title challenges. Gay not only brilliant defensively and building up play, but also getting forward.

19:13Musa Okwonga: Like the finish that he scored was, you know, any striker would have been proud of that. Incredible pass by Cherki as well. I think he just has them playing with freedom. You look at O 'Reilly as well, scoring too, who is going to be a, I can't even, this guy's going to be huge. O 'Reilly and Dowman, Future of England team, is two of the best young talents in any position, anywhere in the world. Like those guys, you can put them alongside. If you're looking at like a youth 11, a global youth 11, you can argue that in terms of like global youth 11 under 22, those guys, you could argue they'd be, they'd be on the bench if not starters.

19:51Musa Okwonga: So yeah, great from City's perspective and just the steamroller looks like it is acquiring momentum. In terms of Arsenal. I'm just going to jump in there.

20:00Ryan Hunn: It looks like Nico O 'Reilly might miss the Arsenal game. That's interesting.

20:04Musa Okwonga: That's a big absence for City, I think. It's a huge absence.

20:08Ryan Hunn: Especially at the moment because he's been like a bit of a game breaker for them despite the amount of praise that Semenyo's had. I think Nico O 'Reilly's given him so much in multiple parts of the pitch that… Frightening. he's been a bit of a revelation in that sense and he's like a you know like a classic kind of NBA 2 way player just yeah and I think taking him out while City do have other options that's a big miss in multiple areas of the pitch for them

20:39Musa Okwonga: it's a huge absence in the build up the way he shut down you know left back was a problem for City and he has completely shut down that conversation

20:46Ryan Hunn: especially if you look at his contribution in the final in the Carabao Cup final you know he was he was the the difference for them scoring two goals as well so it would be a big miss that if he misses that game I mean it's not confirmed yet but it didn't look like he would be playing again within a week

21:02Musa Okwonga: that's a big absence for City given even given the quality they clearly have in terms of Arsenal let's say first of all a lunchtime game against Bournemouth following a Champions League encounter is a suboptimal is a suboptimal choice of fixture it's not an ideal fixture I suppose I'm trying to say a mitigation of what comes next or my criticism next there's a type of mistake that I'm seeing from Arsenal that I didn't see from them earlier in the season deflections tight body language failure to cover gaps failure to create a lack of decisiveness in key areas just things like basics that I'm seeing not happening and I think those things aren't happening because the team is well tight and look it's times that this is reminded that it's 20 odd years since they won a league title so the institutional memory of winning a title is not there at the moment that's i think that's fair to say city are right there and then new players they brought in they've got a lease of life like simenio coming in and doing what he's done like this thing city would not be this close if that guy hadn't come in right that's clear to me because he did give them something new because savino was struggling to give them the impetus they wanted so you've got city like in the rear of Yamira advancing all the time.

22:18Musa Okwonga: And I think you've got as well the sense of, I think it's almost a despair, a collective despair because key elements of the team aren't firing. And I don't want to sound critical and single people out, but the head of chance that Havertz had, like I know they got the penalty in the end. That needs to go in. And then the Jokeres offside for his goal, such a good finish. And it's also, you just shouldn't be offside there. Shouldn't be offside there. Like really, because I tell you what, when he makes that run.

22:46Ryan Hunn: I do think the pass needs to go earlier though as well.

22:49Musa Okwonga: It does, but still, but the view of the line you have, the beauty of that is the run that he makes, actually the vision he has, he has the court vision not to go. And it's just the urgency. And I think the thing that's typified his play when I've seen him a lot this year is, is the eagerness just to kind of, his strength is his weakness, right? His strength is he goes. His strength is like he's there, he senses opportunity and he goes after it. And it's this eagerness to be decisive. And the finish, sad enough, it's a really great finish. And the thing is, if it goes 2-1 there, and I think even if he stayed on, if he held his run, I still think he outpaces the player.

23:23Musa Okwonga: He still gets the angle. I think he scores it. And 2-1 then, you're getting at least a draw. And then what that means is, Arsenal City, it's just not interesting because they don't need the points. And they can even rack up the goal difference there. It doesn't, this is the thing, I just look at that, I look at that hour mark, and I think to myself, that's the offside. Look, he had the offside, and there's a Bemendi goal against Sporting and the Havertz winner was fine. It didn't cost him. But two crucial offsides in the course of a week and I'm like, man, these are the margins. And I'm not trying to go after him particularly.

23:59Musa Okwonga: It's just, these are the margins. No, no, you don't need to caveat

24:02Ryan Hunn: or apologise for that. I think we're at a really crucial point of the season here because what you're seeing is a bit of an accumulation of everything that has gone before it. and I mean everything you're seeing a combination an accumulation of all of the scar tissue all of the banter from an external point of view the near misses you know unlike when Liverpool were having those near misses with City they had a Champions League thrown in there right which I think helped it along a bit substantially yeah on the pitch what you're seeing is an accumulation of just how much the wiggle room has been dramatically reduced as the season's increased based on and this isn't an excuse i think this is just a reality the volume of injuries this season has been again quite wild some combinations that just really don't work but you're forced into using them this weekend was huge because it was a bit of a combination of all of these things at precisely the wrong time from an arson perspective yes yes however if they walk away from the etihad with a point it's absolutely fine if they actually lose the game it's not dreadful i think all of that has made arsenal inherently conservative in the way that they play football now compared to early on in the season which i think they were getting more stickful than they deserved i think that now it's got to the point where you can see the anxiety yes you're seeing the fatigue meant probably mentally and physically with you know i I think the Bournemouth winner is almost identical to the Southampton winner a couple of weeks ago.

25:44Ryan Hunn: Someone running off someone's shoulder in a very similar pocket, getting into the top of the box and having a very easy finish, creating an opportunity that it feels like Arsenal struggle to create at the moment.

25:54Musa Okwonga: And also, especially in a game where if you look at how Bournemouth contested space throughout, Bournemouth were not, Bournemouth like, had a really good share of possession and defensively were really robust and they contested, they went toe-to-toe with Arsenal pretty much that whole game. it wasn't like they parked into their box they came out and played football and Iriola coached a really good football team well he coached the lights out their numbers actually are interesting they were getting cooked early in the season and it feels like with the exception of like I think a really bad defeat late last year they've been slowly rediscovering their identity and they've been steadying the ship Iriola now has managed to plug a lot of the gaps they haven't had the most eye-catching results in the last few games but they've been really resilient and you know Arsenal know that themselves Arsenal beat them 3-2 at their place and that was a nightmare that game you know and that was a huge game and the way that arsenal celebrated that will tell you everything about how tough this fixture was going to be the return fixture because arsenal knew they'd been in an absolute dogfight so look if there's any team you can't afford fatigue against it's bournemouth a saturday lunchtime the concern i suppose for them and this is credit to them for bournemouth's great victory the concern for arsenal i think is that goal difference right They're playing Burnley City straight after they play Arsenal.

27:08Musa Okwonga: And if there was ever an opportunity on the map you're looking at, we're going to rack up some goal difference. They're looking at a game like that. City are thinking, we want to beat Arsenal, even if it's 1-0, and then we're going to absolutely torch teams in the home straight. And goal difference, if you look at that Arsenal attack, it's not just their goal production or their lack of it at the moment. It's the fact that, in contrast to City, the Arsenal team, a lot of them, have not won something huge.

27:35Ryan Hunn: Yeah. You're seeing a similar thing with like Rory McIlroy won the Masters this weekend. I think you're seeing how unbelievably calm he was in those final five holes compared to this time last season. You're seeing how much different experience and like having done it before makes. And that's what's happening in the Premier League at the moment with Arsenal and Manchester City.

27:58Musa Okwonga: It's a great shot. Yeah, look at them. You have, even with this team that is Pep's transitional team, Bernardo Silva's right there the man has played at City for 10 years there's not a league title he doesn't know his way around this stuff really matters this stuff really matters it does it just does because it means that you know we talked about Arsenal's problem was about playing the shirt with Bayern that time in the Champions League and there's like playing the league table you're looking at the table going goal difference this and you're thinking of all the old times the title races actually just rip it from 30 yards you're good enough just go past that player you're good enough like Arteta actually can't really be faulted in the sense that he makes really bold substitutions on the 55 minute mark we talked about this but look I didn't like this though this is similar Man United at home yeah but do you remember when we had the situation with Arteta where it was like the Liverpool game sobs like free kick and I felt I felt like he didn't manage that period around the hour mark for the next 10 minutes that well I felt he didn't manage it that well these are proactive subs these were players that weren't producing and maybe he changed too much too soon

29:07Ryan Hunn: well this is it because I think he did this for Manchester United as well do you not remember there is a tendency that he sometimes goes to Mikel Arteta where I think the subs in theory make sense but I think you either stagger them because you change so much so it takes the team a little while to then reconfigure it's like a pre-season friendly isn't it it's like a total yeah and I think when you've got all of this other stuff going on I think you just need to keep it you need to make it easier on yourself and I think what's happening at the moment for Arsenal doesn't feel like they're making it easier for themselves and I also think a lot of that I haven't read it yet but I saw Andrew's blog on Arsenal's blog it was titled It's Time to Be Serious and I saw a couple of quotes from it but I think a lot of this there's just way too much going on with everything at the moment for Arsenal it doesn't feel routine I want this to feel more routine right because this side is good enough and has been good enough over the last few years for these kind of games to feel routine despite all the injuries and the goings on right i don't want to see hype videos before a bournemouth game at home like i just don't want to see it it's too much there's already enough pressure it's just going to add even more anxiety to every single situation and that just isn't sustainable that's not a sustainable thing i was watching um the TIFO livestream on Sunday and Kaya was saying something quite similar to this about how the emotional energy that every single game takes and it's something that we've spoken about this season right I'm just like it should be that like look Bournemouth are a very good football team Arsenal should be able to look at a Bournemouth at home even after a Champions League game and be like look this is a game that we should win we need to win let's focus on winning I don't want to see any of that stuff you know

30:52Musa Okwonga: I saw an amazing amazing article I think it was the Sunday Times many years ago Bernard Langer missed was it a putt for the Ryder Cup what was the one he missed like the six footer was it the martyrs of the Ryder Cup it was the Ryder Cup Ryder Cup that was it and it was incredible piece it says sometimes you can want something too much sometimes you can want something too much Bernard Langer had sunk that putt 10 ,000 times he's been sinking that putt since the club was taller than him really Bernard Langer has been sinking he was sinking that putt with his daddy's putter right I'm pretty sure and he comes to that moment the moment of truth and sometimes it's like take a step out and look I know that Arteta is a very intense manager so is George Graham so is Jose Mourinho so is all of it I just think the combination of factors around all of this the desire the want the need this is the thing you almost need to sort of change that and be like look yeah it's a league title but this is a great squad of players we're going to win a title yes we can win it this year but you know the thing is we can also win it next year and the year after that because we're good enough to do that and this fear of like it's one and done it's now or never that's part of the problem actually it betrays a lack of confidence

32:10Ryan Hunn: yeah I mean I think there are teams that are in different stages now but I don't think that it's over you can change that though

32:17Musa Okwonga: like I think look I think the thing about Manchester United that I that I loved was that they won titles they had no right to win. As sometimes right, you know what it is? You can't, I've said this before, but you can't ask permission in these moments. Well, it was like, look, the thing about other clubs and the win titles in off-seasons and transition years, and I know that we're critical of Chelsea for some of the financial stuff, you know, off the field, of course. The thing about Chelsea that I think I've respected in these contexts is that they would win games they had no right to win. They would just go and...

32:56Musa Okwonga: And Arsenal do that too, actually. They're capable of doing that. I just think there's an element of... Someone in the squad, this is something that can only be solved from within Arsenal dressing room, by the way. Someone in that squad, and I know that someone like Declan Rice is completely aware of it. I mean, that amazing moment, the slapstick moment, early in the season where he was like, don't lose our heads, and then thereafter makes a mistake. But the fact is, it was hilarious, and he laughed at it. I love the fact that Declan Rice is in that dressing room going, one of us just has to take charge.

33:20Musa Okwonga: even if it's messy even if it's clumsy even if it's ridiculous there's a ton of titles that united won over the last whatever few years where we got cooked i keep saying this consecutive weeks i think was five nil and uh lost lost to southampton six three and five nil in consecutive weeks god knows what the social media would have made of that but this team regrouped and got results it doesn't matter if everyone's laughing you it doesn't matter if everyone thinks you're ridiculous if the football's scrappy if it's ugly it doesn't matter if it's set piece fc which is amazing because i think they've managed to make a section of the fan base successfully ashamed of a thing that was actually working which is also funny but here's the thing right like someone in that dressing room has to go out next week and just hit a banger from 30 yards has to beat two or three players and it might be max downman that comes in and does it but someone has to go i will be the player that takes charge because i don't believe that's happening i don't believe there players in the Arsenal dressing room, not a sufficient number who are sitting there going, I'm going to go and be the hero.

34:20Ryan Hunn: I get the angst and it's like, this season is so stressful. I think I'm still a little bit like, no, people are going to drop points and I don't think that this gap is going to be maintained or whatever yet. City might run away with it now, they might do, but it It might also be that Arsenal get a point at the Etihad. City have got a couple of really difficult away games as well coming up. They actually have to go to Bournemouth and they have to go to Everton on a Monday night,

34:51Musa Okwonga: which is not easy. Can I talk about City as well, actually? Because Leroy Sané, I keep thinking about him. I know he left many years ago, but he was a player that Pep didn't want to sell. And it's been so hard for Pep to find a winger to replace someone like that, that plays that level of freedom, that stretches the game. I think Semenya now is someone I think Semenya was the winger that he's most consistently trusted since Sané and he's so happy with him because the thing about Semenya that I think is so great is that he plays almost above and beyond that pressure like he's the kind of Semenya's the kind of guy who'll be like pressure playing in a relegation battle is pressure yeah yeah really like playing in a relegation battle is pressure like where you're the guy that everyone is looking at to score the big goal that's pressure and now I'm at City it's ball dominant I'm not saying that he doesn't feel title pressure I'm saying that he comes from a kind of hinterland where it's like he's in his own space he exists in his own lane he's had different kinds of struggles and he's come into the City team and it's like oh this is I'm playing with house money whereas I think

35:55Ryan Hunn: that's it with Semenya does that make sense his past experience and his journey through football right the way that he you know three years ago he was at Bristol City to then progress through. It's incredible. 26 years old and three years ago he was playing for Bristol City and now he's playing for Manchester City and potentially winning the league. For Pep. I don't think we talk about that enough actually. Yeah, exactly. And he got picked by Pep really to be that player.

36:21Musa Okwonga: They must be so proud of him, man. They must be so proud of Semino. 100%.

36:25Ryan Hunn: He had three amazing years at Bournemouth but sometimes when you've been on the journey that he's been on it can be, you know, a lot of people might think I'm cool with that and I think the fact that he continued to progress to such a level that he's now slotted into a Manchester City side and you know it was from game one he instantly added something to that side

36:48Musa Okwonga: Can you imagine how many people played alongside him in those different teams and were like as in looking and thinking not as in not an envy but going oh man imagine if I I wonder if I'd pushed on I wonder what I could have done I wonder what's possible like this is the thing and you look at Eze as well his own story Semenos is comparable actually Semenos is comparable this man went in the wilderness and I wonder we're seeing this actually quite a bit in football where you've got players it feels like it's happening more than it happened maybe 10 years ago we've got players who've kind of been discarded in the churn I think what's happening is this desire for quick wins quick results is having brilliant players tossed out before they're given a chance to develop but then those players bless them they're finding the resilience they're hanging there and then you're attracting the attention of the big of the big names again so it's if there's a lesson for anyone and I know this was a conversation about the title race but I feel like it's come around to something because it's like it's like hang in there like that resume you think of the number of text messages that man's receiving going good on you always believed you're amazing at our level you know when as they went to Arsenal and you had the Wickham lot coming out going this man was sheer class from day one came in here was incredible handled himself so well I just hope that man's phone is just blowing up because to put himself, can you imagine if you said like four years ago, someone said, oh, you're going to be, or when he signed at the Bristol city Academy, do you know a few years from now, you're going to be like pivotal in a title race.

38:18Musa Okwonga: I'm sure a couple of coaches on that training ground were like, you've got what it takes. And they're the ones that he's probably still in touch with. But really like, this is Tony Rudiger. And you go to Tasmania and you see him in Berlin. If you see his picture in the lounge and they're so proud of him, It's the same tradition, you know, just these are, these players are making heroic comebacks. Shout out to the Oberleague Nord. Listen, real ones know. Real ones know. You have like O 'Reilly, who is like through the same system, and then Semenyo, who's been around. And it's almost poetic that these two players from sort of different ends of the footballing experience are defining the title challenge because it shows that it just takes all sorts.

39:00Musa Okwonga: because the thing about Semenya is, and I think compared to Ian in this sense and Eze, they've had to come up with such unorthodox solutions to problems, right? Like if you're in the City Academy, you're part of a club and institution that's always been the front runner as long as you can remember. Like, you know, O 'Reilly's young enough to remember. He's not old enough to remember the bleakest days of City's existence, right? He's just not. And then you have, for example, Semenya, who has really been around, comparable to Ian, where you were just fighting for your career, fighting for your future all the time.

39:36Musa Okwonga: And especially as an attacker, you're having to innovate in very particular ways. And I think it's different as an attacker. There's a different type of challenge you get. The burden of scoring goals at all levels, and this is why I look at Jamie Vardy with so much respect. The burden of figuring it out against these complex defences, chunks of being kicked out of you, you're having to ride challenges, you're playing against a range of centre-backs. the range of attack that Semenya has faced he probably finds it this is the weird thing to say I can't remember I'm saying this he probably finds it easier at this level just because there's a great level of protection for players like him the pitches are better you have more possession the types of challenges I'd love to speak to him one day and be like what are the toughest five games you played and I'd be surprised I'd be surprised if a Premier League game for Manchester City was one of the first five names that he mentioned in the top five toughest games he's played.

40:34Musa Okwonga: I'd be surprised if the bulk of those games were actually in the Premier League itself, just considering what he's had to come through. But yeah, I just think it's a great story. I'm sure it won't be lost in all the noise. And I would love to see at some point a really good Semenu documentary because you saw the way that he was treated when he left Bournemouth. The fact that he scores in his last game and I saw it's rare that you see universal acclaim for a player when they leave a club but that was like yeah it was actually something to the Eze thing yeah yeah anyway so shout out to Semenu I know we started with the title race but sometimes it's good to drill drill down and focus on the players that are making the making the race happen

41:15Ryan Hunn: oh dude 100 % I mean we'll obviously talk more about Manchester City and Arsenal next week after that game but yeah it did feel like a big shift in it was almost like you know like I said in the goal thing it is like when the leader makes a double bogey and then this is very much McElroy's third round it was no fourth to be honest there was a point where he drops like the third or something in the you know it's not over but my god like I just

41:44Musa Okwonga: they've made it can I say this and I say this is I think this is a fair comment regardless of your support Arsenal have made this altogether too interesting they've made it too interesting can I tell you You know, Diego Simeone with his whole, the suffering is necessary. You can imagine him like with a sicko's meme going, yes, yes.

42:02Ryan Hunn: No, Diego Simeone is sat there being like, you know, even for me, this is a lot.

42:09Musa Okwonga: Oh, I think he's loving it. I think he's kicking every ball. Rather him than me. I think Diego Simeone gets dressed up in all black to watch Arsenal. I think it's like his happy place.

42:24Hi, friends. Grace from the Working Hard podcast here. When you're stretching every dollar, a little goes a long way and Walmart Business is here to help. They make it easy to order what you need from tech and cleaning supplies to everyday essentials, all at low prices and with helpful tools like spend tracking and tax exempt purchasing for eligible organizations. Because when your operations are smooth, your impact can be bigger. Visit business.warmart.com to get started. Hey, sweetie, your mother showed me this Carvana thing for selling the car. I'm going to give it a try. Wish me luck. Me again.

42:53I put in the license plate. It gave me an offer. Unbelievable. Okay, I accepted the offer. They're picking it up Tuesday from the driveway. I haven't even left my chair. It's done. The car is gone. I'm holding a check. Anyway, Carvana, give it a whirl. Love ya. So good, you'll want to leave a voicemail about it. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pickup fees may apply.

43:19Musa Okwonga: I know we're going to talk about Spurs in a sec but Jared Bowen the late season run that man is on to try and get on that plane and to save West Ham at the same time I think it's the other way around I think he's trying to save West Ham first and also get on the plane for the World Cup that man is very much the energy of a man running for the last train home he's locked in and it's awful for Spurs that he has caught fire like this and is galvanising West Ham like this. To beat Wolves 4-0, a team that has not been cooked that often this year. I mean, they look... I don't have a... I don't know how loud this thing was at the London Stadium.

44:01Musa Okwonga: It sounded loud. They've been bringing it, man. Dude, they cooked. So look, West Ham, just first credit to them. Fantastic win, 4-0 over Wolves and just they looked at points. kind of exhilarating. Some of the football was like talk about playing without fear for some of this stretch. Jared Bowen phenomenal but also like just his supporting cast superb.

44:24Ryan Hunn: Shout out goal machine Konstantinos Mavropanos who has has scored four goals in 97 games for West Ham United but has three this season.

44:43Musa Okwonga: so so good the Castellanos his first goal was just that didn't belong in a relegation battle it didn't it like that's the that's the biggest compliment I can pay West Ham this looked like football from quite a bit higher at the table that's the best compliment I can give they're just really entertaining and actually talk about playing yourself out of danger with a smile fantastic and I wonder what they're going to do in the upcoming weeks Spurs by contrast us losing 1-0 at Sunderland now again look on paper like in the grand scheme of the league table not an unexpected result not a disaster as well not even the worst performance but that goal that goal that deflected strike when you see that go in it's it is the old cliche about when things are going badly everything goes badly and Spurs actually playing some really decent football in this game and this is going to be lost in the conversation because I thought they started fairly well, applied themselves quite well, could have had a penalty, it wasn't won, but showed some real enterprise, Richarlas and dropping into pockets, some really good playmaking, using the channels well.

45:50Musa Okwonga: And you're seeing the early signs of a deservedly coached team in terms of the build-up, the interchange of players. I wonder how much of that is going to be lost in the noise around this defeat and the gnashing of teeth. But they are. they got they went that goal down and they couldn't find a way back in and the problem for them is not even that they're not playing some decent stuff in patches is that West Ham have found that the thing we were saying the thing that might save them is that West Ham are even worse I don't know if they can count on that anymore it's only that one I don't I don't think they can count on that anymore actually

46:26Ryan Hunn: I think Spurs were a little bit unlucky in the sense that I think Broby should have been sent off to be honest the push on Romero So I think it's really bad. Yeah, I agree. I don't know. I didn't like it at all. And Romero went off injured. And it didn't look great at all.

46:46Musa Okwonga: I mean, but it's what we kind of feared. The Sunderland game was one that, not a great first game, Sunderland away for De Zerbe. It's certainly not a free hit. And one which I thought would end in defeat. What I wasn't banking on again was was West Ham doing what West Ham did. I think that changes the dynamic quite a lot. Because then if this game turns out, if these last few games turn into kind of a shootout, we can see where the goals are coming from for West Ham. I'm not so convinced. But then again, look, the Zerbi's only had a few sessions with them. Brighton at home next. Yeah, don't fancy that.

47:22Ryan Hunn: Brighton at home, Wolves away, Villa away, Leeds at home, Chelsea away, Everton at home, final game of the season. That's just not a fun run-in when you need points but I don't but the thing is now on the other side of that what is a fun run in? Yeah that's true A point for another day maybe but whoever wins the league and whoever goes down the season and whoever finishes in the European spots I think that this Premier League has felt like this season has felt like the biggest season that I can I think that collectively people will just want to bin off I feel like no one's just no one's had a apart from Manchester United obviously

48:01Musa Okwonga: i've had it i've actually had i've i've had a great time personally no because there's nothing at stake i'm the third choice goalkeeper of podcasts that's what i am i'm a third choice goalkeeper i'm literally i'm like oh you know what i'm getting i'm trying to try to bring vibes i'm getting paid you know i'm in the clubhouse i'm doing my thing i'm like you know what if i'm needed you know if you don't it's good i'm i'm caught it's calm it's calm you're

48:24Ryan Hunn: That's so just like not true.

48:27Musa Okwonga: It's so not true.

48:29Ryan Hunn: You're the Jordan Pit for this podcast. You are the Jordan Pit. If you want to go goalkeepers, you're the Jordan Pit for this podcast.

48:35Musa Okwonga: Sadly true. I make a hot take, then I go, vamos! I do think this season has been a real grind.

48:45Ryan Hunn: I wrote that thing for the Stadio newsletter a few weeks, was it a couple of months ago? And it was tongue in cheek, but I kind of stand by it. where just like no one's having a great time really but you know I feel sorry I feel sorry for the teams

49:01Musa Okwonga: like Brentford Everton and Sunderland that in the conversation about the Premier League will overshadow and also shout out to Fulham Marco Silva doing work there but like not getting quite the props that sort of midsection of the Premier League who are coaching the lights out are not going to get the props in the end which is but that's always the you know to be honest

49:21Ryan Hunn: Yeah, but even so though, man, look, like, you know, four draws in a row for Brentford. Sunderland, you know, we're knocking on the door for the Champions League at one point.

49:30Musa Okwonga: Brentford have normalised. It's not, but it doesn't mean it's the seventh. It's not normal. It's not normal. It's not normal.

49:37Ryan Hunn: Anyway, can we just shout out Rio and Gamora very quickly for a lovely goal against Fulham on the weekend. Big shout out.

49:46Musa Okwonga: Crystal Palace being like, justice for us. We beat Newcastle 2-1. It's a big thing. It's a big result. Huge result, which is interesting. Two goals for Jean-Philippe Mateta. Last minute penalty. Who knows how it's going to be this summer, but worth keeping an eye on.

49:57Ryan Hunn: I think we'll maybe chat about him another time. I think this is a really seismic summer for Newcastle. Feels like a real fork in the road moment for this project. What they want from it.

50:07Musa Okwonga: Yeah, yeah. 14th in the league. 14 losses. Dude, that's not where they want to be, I think it's safe to say. But yeah, not the greatest Premier League season I think viewed up close not a vintage year in terms of some of the football but I think some some intriguing stories for sure

50:29Ryan Hunn: I saw someone post something saying that a thing that's been lost this year in the Premier League is that only only Arsenal and Manchester City have won more games than they've not won wild in the league listen

50:44Musa Okwonga: City have only scored seven goals more than United you know we're going to win the league United you know what no let me plant my flag no one is talking about ask for the title race do you know what

50:56Ryan Hunn: it's still on beat Leeds tonight and we might you know I'd love it only six points behind City I think we're going to do it Ryan shame there's not another Manchester derby coming up that would be fun

51:07Musa Okwonga: they were running scared of it I'll tell you that much

51:09Ryan Hunn: yeah but you know why is you just there's no pressure character's at the wheel

51:15Musa Okwonga: we're going to win the league we can still do it mathematically this year this year mathematically we can still do it City and Arsenal will drop points and we'll come up on the outside rail

51:25Ryan Hunn: Can you imagine if Man United won the league how end of days it would feel if Manchester United somehow won the Premier League this season Can you imagine? I'd just be like I know we talked about it on Thursday but if that happened I'd be signing up for the next Artemis mission I'd be like just leave me there I'll volunteer you don't want to leave an astronaut up there because they know too much right take me take me leave me there i don't want to fucking watch any of this shit anymore i don't want to do it if it'd be hilarious the podcasters who were like against carrick's appointment you know

52:08Musa Okwonga: if he won the leap and left the job didn't take

52:15Musa Okwonga: anyway i'm being ridiculous i'm trying to lighten the mood just because you know obviously it's stressful times for rounds of certain clubs um but yeah shout out to spurs fans too um because it's uh you know it's it's a rough it's a rough ride and i do have as a football fan first i have you know deep sympathy uh for teams in that mix for fans in that mix but yeah let's see how the uh the games play out but plenty of plenty of twists to come yet i'm sure do we want

52:45Ryan Hunn: to shout out anything else before we go. Barcelona extending their lead at the top of La Liga to nine points because Real Madrid dropped points to Girona.

52:52Musa Okwonga: Yeah, Laminya masterclass, but what's new there frankly. Table was a wild turnaround. Inter-Como. Como going 2-0 up and then Inter coming back to win 4-3. They actually went 4-2 up. Two goals from Dumfries and Turam getting the points there. They've really missed Dumfries at points this season. Yeah, dude. dude what a player I think he's slightly I think he's very slightly underrated actually I agree just in terms of what he brings to Inter and has brought for years but yeah Serie A

53:28Ryan Hunn: while we're in Italy bit stop start from Venezia but they drew against yeah last last few games actually but they are still three points clear at the top three points clear in Monza and they go to Bari next week Monza meanwhile go to Samp three wins in a row for Samp now means they've kind of pulled away from that relegation battle

53:48Musa Okwonga: they remembered who they were

53:51Ryan Hunn: quick shout out for Jack Wilshere won his first trophy as a manager Luton beating Stockport County 3-1 in the EFL trophy final at Wembley

53:57Musa Okwonga: oh wonderful I love that for him I love that for him Jack go smart smart man I'm really glad that's working out for him yeah

54:05Ryan Hunn: we're recording this ahead of Manchester United Leeds United which I'm quite looking forward too.

54:14Musa Okwonga: Yeah, me too. Football's always more fun with the pressure off.

54:26Ryan Hunn: I really want to kind of just... Do you know what I've realised? I think I've got a new life goal. I think I want to... What's that? Just readjust my relationship with football a little bit so I can just dip my toe in whatever I want. Yeah, yeah. I don't blame you at all. I just want to... I might turn this in to a golf podcast listen in the dark days of united i'd go off and i'd write poetry walk on

54:53Musa Okwonga: the moors well not there are any moors in berlin but you know metaphorical moors um and just so now and i think that's the thing i think i tuned out so much at certain points i haven't fully returned but that's healthy because it means i'm enjoying things what they are it means that i enjoy a a great result if we get cooked we get cooked i just think i say to my friends i'm like look we had a good run if we never get back to anything like that again we had a great run and i'm just enjoying individual stories kobyamayn looking happy again united shirt it's really wonderful to see casemiro going a great getting a great send-off i just appreciate the small stuff more it's not i don't care about results i do but it's more like i just step back and go it's been great and it might not be as great again and that's okay but that's really okay

55:43Ryan Hunn: Do you know what? One of the main reasons why I hope Arsenal win the league this season is just so I think everyone can just be like

55:49Musa Okwonga: Thank goodness I'm on relatively good terms Arsenal fans because if they win this thing you know when I'm you know when Aguero scored that late winner to win City the title over us all those years ago people were finding me that I'd not heard from months sometimes years people are fighting oh moose i still got your number how are you people were cooking i was getting cooked i was getting cooked from different continents different time zones yeah but the thing

56:15Ryan Hunn: is i feel like i've had so many of those in the last however long i just want to i just want a

56:20Musa Okwonga: year off oh my goodness it's nothing like the vengefulness of a rival football fan um yeah so i just hope um i just hope this season plays itself out and i talked to andrew maggot about this arse blog the whole time i'm like look may the best team win he never agrees with that but whatever happens next week i just hope it's like a really good contest and there's no bitterness over like officiating or like you know i just hope there's no controversy over the outcome next week guess let's hope it's a fair fight i don't even know what i want anymore i just want it to be over

56:54Ryan Hunn: just much like this podcast put me on the moon man just get me out of it can't deal with anymore

57:01Musa Okwonga: you know what that's the podcast title for this week put me on the moon

57:05Ryan Hunn: put me on the moon and let me gaze upon the stars i want to hear about football title races on jupiter or mars thank god they don't have title races on jupiter or mars all right let's get out of here don't forget if you want to sign up for the champions league podcasts and all the extra podcasts, ad-free info, including the Monday one. Go to patreon.com forward slash stadio. You can also sign up for the Stadio Social Club if you like, where you get access to the Stadio Social Club Discord and loads of other perks. Members, we'll be back on Thursday with the Champions League podcast. We might have a little kind of like sampler episode going up for free listeners, so keep an eye out for that.

57:51Ryan Hunn: And yeah, I reckon that'll do us for today. So until Thursday, don't forget to check the Stadio Archers playlist on Spotify and And speaking of which, playing out on Club Dread by KLX. Anything you would like to add, Musak Wonga?

58:05Musa Okwonga: Nothing further.

58:06Ryan Hunn: All right, everyone. Much love. Have a great week. We'll be back with you on Thursday. See you then.

58:28Thank you.

59:02Thank you.

59:29Thank you.

1:00:00Thank you.

1:00:57We'll see you next time. chase themselves even better books that automate that's a big one and i can keep track from my phone while i get the job done no spreadsheet in sight what a life do right by yourself and your business and search xero for your free trial conditions apply