Senegal win the AFCON, Man Utd’s derby victory and Glasner goes off

0:22Hello and welcome back to the study podcast. I'm Issa Kwonga. I'm Ryan Hunt. Ryan, how are you doing? I'm doing alright, thanks man, how are you? Sorry, I'm just Pete behind the curtain Those who didn't see Well, you wouldn't have seen this But it took me like two or three full starts to this podcast Because I'm still flabbergasted After witnessing the AFCON final I was waving Moosa off the pitch I've never seen I've never seen anything quite like that Honestly, we'll talk about it in a sec We're going to lead with that today But that's going to go down in history As one of the all-time finals like people are going to be writing essays and doing episodes about that in like 20 30 well as long as humanity is surviving then whatever podcast will be by then people are going to be doing you know 20th anniversary editions of that final because i can't remember anything like it nothing exists like it nothing exists like i never there's no no major final has ever seen that degree of twists but i refuse to believe i refuse to believe it well let's save it for just a few seconds or a few minutes because first of all we hope everyone is we hope everyone is staying safe and well wherever you are if you watch the afcon final you were probably as hyped as we were in terms of witnessing a spectacle quick bit of admin two shows this week and that's because thursday's show is going to be a champions league episode but also I'm going to be joined by Stefan Ersfeld to talk about the stuff that happened at Hertha this weekend.

2:02There was a big police presence and some clashes between fans and police that left a lot of fans injured. There's still some stuff coming out about that but it's something that's kind of been going on for a little while. So the great man Stefan Ersfeld is going to chat all about it and we're also going to talk about some Bundesliga stuff because Dino Tottmüller was fired by Eintracht Frankfurt and there's a couple of other Bundesliga stories that we're going to chat about so Stefan will do that with me because you're otherwise engaged this week but you will have time to do the Champions League stuff with me on Thursday.

2:44I will indeed, yep. So with today and Thursday you've got two kind of pretty bumper episodes I think this week so hopefully that will keep you going. If you are listening to this on the free feed and you want to sign up and listen to full episodes ad-free, go to patreon.com forward slash stadio. You can sign up as a podcast member. If you want to get involved in the Stadio Social Club, you get all the podcasts plus access to the Discord and loads of other perks. You can also sign up, patreon.com forward slash stadio. Is that all the admin? That is all the admin. Right. In that case then, let's get on to the football.

3:22Let's do it. and there is only one place to begin.

3:30I mean, yeah, I mean, we do have to start on Rabat. Oh, I thought you were going to, I thought, okay, you know, all right, I was going to go Borkum-Darmstadt, three or four, in case you asked, but it's fine, but it's fine, it's fine, it's fine. Let's go to Rabat. Senegal have won the AFCON and they did so in one of the most dramatic, i'd say 40 minutes of actual playing time because i'm trying to i'm just trying to do the maths of what so it was around 90 minutes where the real drama properly properly kicked off how do we even begin to begin summarizing this oh i think so do we begin do we begin before do You know what, I think given what happened in the game, I think we need to start before the actual final and the lead up to this, because I think that Senegal's behavior, I feel like there was an intensity around this match, which fun enough, because the game itself for the most part was conducted, I thought, in really quite good spirit.

4:36Like when you had players injured and going down, for the most part, you saw players from each team checking on each other, right? So it felt like that was in balance. But I think underneath the surface, There was something else. So you have this report in the Guardian about Senegal being very critical of the Moroccan authorities, accusing them of putting Senegal players in danger, undermining the preparations for the final against the host Morocco. The Senegalese Football Federation, the FSF, this is from the Guardian, Jonathan Wilson's report, protested about a lack of adequate security on arrival, inadequate accommodation, confusion over training facilities and insufficient tickets being provided for Senegal fans.

5:14So the FSF spread a clear lack of adequate security measures that exposed the players and technical staff to overcrowding and risks incompatible with the standards of a competition of this magnitude and the prestige of a continental fighter. Further, the Senegal manager, Pape Tiar, said on Saturday, We have to say that what happened is abnormal, abnormal for a team like Senegal to be left with the crowd like that. The players were in danger when they came to the train station. Anything could have happened through the actions of malicious people. so this is the context right in which senegal i think were operating now the game itself let's give the game credit because it was a far more open final than either the semis and i thought a fantastic game of football especially in the first 45 minutes we saw some great counter-attacking um from from senegal i thought that they shaded the first half i thought morocco shaded the second half bono in goal just exceptional throughout um some of the saves closing the angles uh and i'm jumping ahead a bit but just in case we forget that save that he made in extra astonishing astonishing was so good it's one of the all-timers it's so good that you think that he's missed the sitter and then you see it again and you realize he's got basically like a half a hand to it it's It's absolutely incredible.

6:30All of that. So some incredible performances by players on both teams. And funnily enough, because the Morocco goalkeeper arguably goes away as the player of the match, you could argue because of some of the saves he made at crucial points. Morocco had a great second half, I thought. I thought in the same way that Senegal won the first half on points, I thought Morocco won the second half on points. Now, of course, we get to the closing stages of the game. Senegal have a goal disallowed because the ref blows up really early for a perceived foul on Hakimi. Now, he blows up really fast. I think if this goes to VAR, the goal possibly gets given, but the problem is that he blows up so quickly, there's no room for VAR review.

7:10Well, this is the thing, because on the commentary that I was watching, they said that it had been checked and cleared, and I was just like, it can't have been checked and cleared because... You waved it away. Yeah, because the whistle blew, so there's nothing to check. And for context, this is like for those who didn't see the game or haven't caught the highlights yet, it's injury time. right, that this happens. Yeah, so this happens, is it like 91st minute? Yeah, yeah. And it takes a little while because this is what then, when it all kind of backlogs. And there's eight minutes of stoppage time added on.

7:42And it's a really bad call. The referee blew very, very early for what he thought was a foul on a block. What was on Hakimi, right? And the thing about this is that this is just not great refereeing. I thought there was an element of, you know what it was? It was funny you should say that because I felt like it was, there was an element of trying to assert himself on the game. It felt like in the semifinals, too many tactical fouls were being let go. And it felt like here he was kind of clamping down or trying to be assertive and decisive. but the problem with that is there's a mix between being assertive there's a balance when you're being so assertive that you're like it's my way or the highway when actually you're not going to catch everything and there'll be incidents you don't catch and you've got to kind of use i think the best referees they referee as a team they referee as part of a team like i'm ceo of a unit i get the final decision i get input from everyone and i make the call and i felt like there was an of him going, I'm making the call here.

8:43And that all led to the crescendo of the penalty award, which I actually think, now here's the funny thing, right? In isolation, in isolation, I think it's a penalty. In isolation, I think it's a penalty. The problem is, the problem is - I think it's soft. I think it's very, very soft, but I think it's just a penalty. I think he had lost authority throughout the game with some of the decisions. So by the time it comes to the penalty award, there's no sense this is being made with consistency. Not in bad faith, I wouldn't go that far, but I would say... Yeah, on the penalty thing just quickly before, I just want to kind of clarify my point on that because at first I thought, oh yeah, it's a penalty he's going to give that.

9:23And then I saw a couple of replays and I thought, actually, I think Brian Diaz has made a little more of this. But I still think it is... It's still a penalty. It's still a penalty. But the thing is, it's not the penalty that I think the Senegal players are reacting to. it's the combination of the goal being the whistle blowing early for their goal and knowing that if that goal had stood that penalty incident doesn't even happen totally because I think a lot of people might say well you can't walk off the pitch for a penalty call like that and I was like yeah I get it and whether they can or can't walk off the pitch is it so the thing I think to be honest as a tactic it worked it worked which we can talk about in a sec but I think I think that what's happened there is it's the double whammy because the goal was fine it should have stood the ref has just blown way too early for something that wasn't even a foul really and I think it's it is so much it's so it's so minor the kind of the push on Hakimi it's not even really a push I don't think it's just two people both put their arms out and one of them is stronger than the other and Hakimi has made more of it and bought the foul really you just need to let that play out.

10:37Yeah, I think it's the frustration of that, which would have, because it was cruel, that the goal should have stood and that should have been the winner, really. And so, yeah, then all this stuff happens with the penalty, which I'm not going to lie, as a viewer and as a neutral, I was like, this is genuinely incredible. I've never seen, I mean, look, and I say this as someone, I saw the, obviously, United getting the 2-1 against Bayern Munich in the Champions League final, right? um like watching that but the thing is that was that swung one way as incredible as that was that final swung one way like this was basically you had what seemed to be a clear winner in senegal it came so late this goal was disallowed then because the whistles he blows up so early then you have the penalty awards to morocco and it just it just feels at that point like it's done like when you see senegal like walking off and they were off for like several minutes heads were gone the only player that was still on the pitch was um at any point for sustained period was Sadio Mane and this is his last AFCON so you can see why he's invested in staying out there and also just trying to kind of rally the troops and then Bram Diaz who earns the penalty who wins the penalty he's then set up to like score it and he's like the tournament top scorer so all of that now all of that is in the mix so when Senegal finally come out I mean it's wild and I don't know I gloss over this apparently the E4 in the UK the E4 studio said El Hajdu FaceTimed the dressing room and got them to come back out now okay I would say about that, I find it pretty wild that El-Hajduv is playing Peacemaker.

12:10And I know, look, great football in his day, but I refuse to believe, I'm sorry to, I refuse to believe that was the decisive, I refuse to believe that was the decisive fact and then returning to the pitch. I just genuinely the wildest period I can remember. And like, you know, it's all kind of kicking off on the, on the touchline, all the arguments. I can't believe I'm going to do this. I'm going to rewatch the stoppage. I'm just actually going to sit through because it was like a fever dream. I couldn't believe, and of course the rain starts driving down at this point, I think just after the rain starts driving down, but this whole context of, okay, Senegal look like the clear winners.

12:42Now it's like Morocco might win. And this feels terrible. This feels like the whole mood around all this. It felt horrible, yeah. This feels awful. Now, eventually Senegal are back out there. We'll find out in the coming days exactly who was decisive and bring them back out. Because I wondered at some point if they were going to forfeit the final altogether, which felt like a possibility. Now, Braham Diaz steps up to the spot against Mendy and inexplicably tries a Panenka against one of the best shot stoppers in world football of the last few years. Like one of the best pressure shot stoppers we've seen.

13:19Like Mendy's been criticised for his distribution, right, for different things. But Mendy's shot stopping at its best is elite. And he tries a Panenka. Already there's been a lot of talk. or did he deliberately do it? Did he not? There's no way that this is deliberate. If you look at the focus that he was doing before, like how focused he was, and first of all, you don't focus that hard for a penalty you know you're going to miss. And also, if you've made your mind up that you want to miss it because you feel like it's occurred in dubious circuit, like full sporting behaviour, let's say, if I've decided to miss a penalty, I'm not hitting it on target.

13:59You're not penicillating, exactly. I'm not going to hit it on target. what if he goes in? Exactly. So that's the first thing. The second thing is I'm not focusing that hard on the penalty that I'm going to miss. He kissed the ball. And thirdly, look how much his head went after that. He kissed the ball. He was properly dazed for a while and they took him off and you could see he was in shock. It was almost like a similar reaction but for another reason to the thing that you always reference about Mario Goetze when he scores in the World Cup final. Yes, yes, exactly the same. Brian Diaz after that penalty was almost just in a complete trance.

14:34He was gone. And to be honest, understandably so, because you've tried something in... I mean, you wrote that piece for the newsletter the other day, which you can access by signing up at Patreon, if you want to go to the Stadio Patreon. It was about Brian Diaz and his journey and his first international tournament from Morocco being a home AFCON, or an AFCON on home soil. and like the arc was the kind of the narrative was too perfect and I just think that The football gods Man it must be It's You know what I the problem is there are penalty takers there are strikers who in their lives even after the introduction of Penenka's to football's mainstream were like we're not going anywhere near that and this is why Yeah there's a time and a place the only thing I can assume is that it was such a a fraught situation before that he may have been like look Mundy's gonna be so hyped he's gonna wanna save this so he's gonna move but the thing is it wasn't even it wasn't like let alone whether or not you wanna do a Penenka in that situation it wasn't a well executed Penenka at all anyway it was almost like a scuffed side foot like half chip he attempted to fake out and this is I don't know I don't know like poor guy actually I feel horrible for this guy horrible for this guy like you're trying that against someone with the reflexes of Mendy.

16:01Like, I think with goalkeepers with reflexes that good, you pick a corner and you rip it, whether it's top, bottom. I don't want to sound unreconstructed. I just think with a guy like that, you have to rely on... Make the keeper make the save. You have to make them work. And the thing now is that he has to... Look, it's one thing missing a penalty like that or having penalties saved, but it's the nature of it. It's what Chiquaiza is going through with now. and Brahm Diaz now like it's the biggest moment of his career and he doesn't he doesn't start many games for Madrid he's off the bench it's not like he can go back to Madrid and redeem himself eventually you know immediately with a string of incredible performances he's got to sit with this now the thing is I feel really sorry for him in a sense because it would have been he was kind of like damned if he did and he was damned if he didn't right he would have been the villain in the football world if he'd put it away right and kind of it doesn't stick to him it doesn't attach to him like if he'd scored that yeah but I mean like like kind of spiritually right do you know what I mean it's like it's quite a horrible look like I'm not saying yeah of course you know I'm just saying you probably still put it away right but it's not a it's a moment that's joyful in one sense but it's also so controversial tainted completely tainted completely tainted right so I think honestly the best thing for him what he should have done was just launch it yes yes yes he could have pulled the all time not like this guy's moment we were chatting before just about saying I was like look if you're going to miss it is that too woke is that where we are now are we at the point that sporting behaviour is now woke is that where we're at I, I'm amazed that the discourse went so quickly to, did he do that on purpose?

17:58Only because to me, it was like, it was just like, absolutely not. Like, because the entire tournament, Morocco actually, and this is the thing in terms of the football, Morocco were a little bit short staffed and attacked throughout, right? Senegal, in terms of like, if you went on the balance of quality of chance creation, it was absolutely Senegal by a mile. like for the most part Morocco had to work really really hard for the goals in this tournament any opportunity they got they'd take it up Braham Diaz had been frozen out of the final not because of his fault but because the lack of supply I mean they were really feeling like they weren't they weren't feeding the right flank at all it was all on the left for most of the game and Wadid or Gregory I don't think this was his best tactical show and I think he could have been more enterprising at different points in the game right this wasn't this shouldn't necessarily have come down to the last minute I said I think this was actually a failure of tactics in the 90 minutes in normal time.

18:53I think that I'll be critical of that. But saying that though, they also missed a couple of massive chances and they could have won it in the 90 minutes. They could have won it. They could have had a... El Carbi missing 26. Yeah, that one. They could have been won ahead, maybe two even, before the 90 minutes was up. Before the controversial non-awording or early whistle of the Senegal goal. I think it's one of those where there's going to be so much focus on Brian Diaz. but I'm quite sympathetic really for that. To him, well massively sympathetic to him because that whole thing was wild. Like that is, I've never seen that in a final.

19:28No one's ever had to navigate that. I've never seen that in an international final. Can you imagine what was said to him? Can you imagine what was said to him when the penalty was awarded? Can you imagine the 20 minutes of who knows what was whispered to Brian Diaz, what was shouted at him for getting the penalty? Like, you know, you dive, you did this, you did that. I just think all of it is like, it's so unprecedented. you are so fried by that point. Like how many times in his head did he take the penalty? If he ever talks about this on the record, which I wouldn't necessarily advise, I wonder like how many different places do you think of putting it?

19:59How many different scenarios did he think about? This is the country that he fought to play for and you're in Rabat, like everyone's watching and you're about to become a generational hero. You're about to win the first AFCON since the 70s. all of that is with you all of that and you're the top scorer the golden boot is in your pocket already and this is the moment this is your crowning moment goodness knows goodness knows what what was promised to the players if they won and i'm not saying that he thought about those material incentives i'm saying that all of it is weighing on you and he does that uh mendy catches it and then what senegal do in extra time is astonishing because they are just they unloaded good and bad astonishing yeah they look they wanted to win that thing 3-0 the good is scoring the goal in the 94th minute that early into extra time and it's a really really good goal as well but then weirdly the continuation to keep going made the game way more open and it got there were a couple of really really hairy moments in their own box as well which i think i feel like they just went you know it was i i i think it was adrenaline dude honestly I genuinely think it was adrenaline like imagine what those players I'm not even knocking it like they literally couldn't slow down the calmest the calmest player on the pitch was Mendy Mendy was the player you notice like when he fell on the ball when he slowed it down he basically they ship him as the DM because he was the he seemed like the only player on the pitch for Senegal who had the mental control like in the final if you watch those kind of the extra time again after they score and they are just tearing about the pitch and it's there's certain moments you're like you can tell their heads are gone in terms of adrenaline because people aren't playing the simple passes the ball is like hanging around in the box in the box too much they're not competing the simple passes they're holding on to it too long not out of greed but out of like oh my goodness we might actually win this like we shouldn't still be in this we were in the dressing room going we might as well toss this in 10 minutes before we're going this is over then papa gay comes up and it's not just this is the thing it's not any normal goal is the kind of goal that leaves you like in a state of pure euphoria.

22:11He just comes to the edge of the box and absolutely tanks it. And look, it's that meme like, I think this is happening, but I can't prove it. He somehow hit that ball with the collective frustration of every watching teammate and supporter. Someone in the chat said like, is this the angry goal of the year? And it might be the angry goal of the century so far. It's one of the angriest projectiles I've seen launched in any sporting context. He absolutely, and actually here's the thing, it's a credit to the quality of the goalkeeping by Bonu that that is the only strike I can actually imagine beating him.

22:49Frankly, it's the only effort. Like he was absolutely, that was hit so cleanly and so perfectly. You know, it's an old cliche, a goal worthy of any final. No, no, a goal worthy of this final. I think after all, after all the disputed goals penalties i think you needed something unambiguous you needed one thing that no one could question and this was an absolute banger um so so senegal then had to kind of see out the extra time and then bonnie makes an astonishing save you mentioned earlier um tipping around the post when it feels it's just it's just i still can't get my head around that save honestly it's one of the best saves ever seen in the final yeah because he's coming from behind he's almost like coming from behind the player it's it's absolutely wild and at first i'm like i'm like this is this is this is a this is a miss this is a it's not a miss it's an astonishing save it's one of the best safes but it's one of those what we call like tears and rain moments it's going to be lost it's going to be forgotten just incredible man like and i mean we knew that or we expected well let's say hoped we hoped that it was going to be a dramatic final i don't think we quite expect it to be this traumatic and you know i think it's going to take a few days for everyone to calm down i think and then to see it in the clear light of day but the achievement for senegal to to win their second afcon in four years two of the last three competitions and to do it against the hosts in the final the much that do it against the tournament favorites the highest ranked they beat the highest ranked team in the tournament the tournament favorites and the hosts in the final and had a very very very contentious four or five minutes contentious with just the best possible use of the word yeah and also the most inadequate of words yeah what we've just seen no it's the perfect word and also the most inadequate word yeah there are no words sometimes there are no words like annoying when you're doing a podcast right but sometimes there just are no words.

24:59But yeah, I'm never going to forget this final. Like ever. I'm just never going to forget it. I can't believe I witnessed this unfolding in real time. The only thing I'm really angry about is that we didn't go. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not. I don't think I could have handled this in person. I joked actually with that sequence of the Senegal goal being disallowed, then the contentious awarding of the penalty, the drama that ensued after that, and then the fact that the penalty taker decided to try a Penenka and missed it that entire sequence was almost like my footballing journey was complete it was I was I was Luke Skywalker at the end where I just I just faded away in front of a sunset I was done I've nothing I've nothing else to see like I'm good I've truly I've honestly honestly dude I'm good I think as a major final goes, and some people go like, oh no, other finals have been more dramatic.

25:55What I mean by that is, in terms of the certainty of a swing, I've never seen any major football final like that. I've never seen it. The emotional journey, the emotional swings, and then like, with everything that was going on before this final, with everything from the Senegal FA and with Morocco, you know, the heavy investments and a team that's a generational team, all the quality all of that narrative all of it and like ready to anoint it's brilliant you know Brian Diaz like the tournament he'd had like all of it it's just golden boot he won I've never yeah there's a picture actually it's really heartbreaking Infantino giving Brian Diaz the golden boot and he just looks the look in his eyes in extra time it's really sad man he had a really good effort as well didn't he actually from distance that Mendy dealt with but I the look on his face it's heartbreaking to see that.

26:48It's heartbreaking. And I'm glad, if anything, I'm glad that the goal that won it wasn't controversial in its own right. I'm glad that we had at least had that. We could be like, look, okay, here's something we can point to that was unambiguous. And, you know, Morocco had their chances as well in extra time. They could have got back into this. And there was a part of me hoping that someone would bail Diaz out somehow. but it wasn't to be. That's not the way these things go. But my God. What a final. Astonishing. Astonishing. Should we get on to some other football? Let's do it. Let's do it. I mean, we thought this was going to be the most dramatic thing of the weekend, but it turns out it wasn't.

27:35And no, this isn't another Bochum-Darmstadt joke. I'm talking about the Manchester derby. So let's talk about the Manchester derby. Manchester United 2, Manchester City 0. Do you know what? I want to ask you a question. Let's begin this section with a question. Where are you on the we're so back scale? So let's say the scale goes to 10 and it's over a zero. After Manchester United's triumphant 2-0 win over Manchester City in the derby, where are you on the we're so back scale? We're going to win the Champions League this year. You said that earlier on in the season though. It's true. we're still on target we're still on target we're still on target for it look we're in the knockout stages we've already caught up be serious be serious this is supposed to be a serious podcast i'm sorry it's not i mean it's not but uh where am i i'm um oh god i'm so happy that kobe manu looks like he might actually get a chance of staying there uh i'm so happy that patrick dorgue looks happy i'm so happy that ahmad looks happy in his back and bumo like there are players playing for Manchester United in that starting 11 who are still quite young but who I think would see that club as their final destination and that alone makes me happy we played and we looked good in midfield against Manchester City and that has not happened for a very long time like and I'm not I'm not you saw Michael Carrick's post-match I'm I'm like him I'm not getting carried away and what's so nice about that what's so nice about I think the last few months of pretty abject football is that you really learn just to value a thing for what it is you learn to just have that incredible buzz you know that happens the result happens have an incredible Saturday just soaking it up and I wake up this morning going United we're brilliant yesterday and whatever happens next week or in the next few days happens but I will always be able to look at that and go play at Old Trafford in a derby and the absolutely smoked it and they got it done yeah yeah we'll always have the 17th of january we'll always listen i don't know the opposite of nostalgia is like pre-stalgia or just like fo-stalgia fo-stalgia yeah fo-stalgia what's the heck i can't tell like the power of now just being in the moment only the present exists that just sounds like the content machine yeah only the present exist yeah i i look i it was genuinely like exhilarating to watch and i think the thing it was really great i thought it was great about it they just got the job done because it felt like someone put in the chat they were like oh like this has got like one nil city written all over it just because united put past up a lot of big opportunities but they just kept they were relentless and the quality of the chance they're producing kept improving which isn't something to they created six big chances and missed four of them and still won 2-0 you know what's wild about that I'm not sure if Donnarumma being in goal the other end Concentrate's missing a big chance because there's a big target there were a couple of really big saves so I mean let's go back to the beginning of it because I feel like we haven't talked much about Carrick's appointment it's worded very carefully he will be the head coach until the end of the season head coach of the men's team until the end of the season that's I think the specific wording brought in here Johnny Evans and Jonathan Woodgate as some coaches but also Steve Holland which was the more intriguing appointment let's say because Steve Holland kind of felt like you know Gary Neville and Roy Keane were having their say on stick to football last week which was very entertaining to watch by the way yeah i actually thought you know it's funny enough i thought the criticism um if we're gonna i thought the criticism by paul scoles and nikki butt of lissandro martinez against hauland was was quite strong and quite harsh they were basically talking i think there was a lot of noise last week there was a lot of noise i mean just to be specific just like we're not just like i'm not just muck spreading it to be specific they were critical of his ability to handle hauland physically and i mention this only because i think it's relevant to the way Evan performed.

31:58If it's about strength, I thought actually, and we'll get to the specifics of the game in a moment, one of the most impressive things about the game was how Martinez, well, it's always been, he's always handled bigger players physically really quite well. It's one of the best parts of his game. Yeah, he loves that physical battle for sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I wouldn't, yeah. I mean, in terms of presence or height stuff, if City were going to get crosses into Hull, for example, I would understand that concern. But in terms of a one-on-one physical battle, I think Martinez is shown plenty of times that he's up for that.

32:30But anyway, yeah, so leading up to the game, it felt quite strange, I thought, for a Manchester United interim appointment, especially with someone who I would put Carrick down as a club legend. And it felt like a confusing mixture of some people wanting to... some people's gut this is just anecdotally so correct me if i'm wrong but some people's gut feeling feeling like being a little bit excited about karik coming in but almost like i've felt this way before and i'm not sure if i should feel this way or does it actually mean anything now i think it's an interesting one because we mentioned on the show that we would prefer if Manchester United went for Carrick over Solskjaer, which I stand by.

33:25And I think having someone who is actually potentially at the beginning of their managerial career is an important step. And I think doing it on an interim basis initially is also quite important because it really does remove any level of pressure. It is a real free swing for the rest of the season for Manchester United and for Carrick. but at the same time this isn't just a oh we've just got a load of the old boys back to take over I think having Steve Holland in there who's someone who doesn't have any ties to the club but he's worked at various clubs and at international level and had a lot of success I think shows a a willingness to hey look we're not just kind of bringing back an old boy this is we are trying something different here and this does feel like a little bit of a combination that Manchester United haven't tried since like in any level of seriousness or semi-long term.

34:23They've done it for a couple of games, like Carrick took over before. And it was after Solskjaer, wasn't it? And, you know, Giggs had a game and obviously the Solskjaer stint. But this feels like... I'm more, put it this way, as someone who isn't a Manchester United fan, I'm more interested in how this works or doesn't work than I have been from probably any other appointment. Because I think having someone like Carrick in there, you could kind of see him give the players a level of freedom that it looked like they hadn't really had for a while. That's absolutely right. That comes from someone who has been at the club for many years as a player, is quite popular among the fan base, and also hasn't made a move from another country and is like the hot young managerial prospect.

35:18There is a level of freedom that gives someone like Carrick to do that, which Amorim wouldn't have. A lot of other players didn't have. Sorry, a lot of other managers who come in at clubs wouldn't have. And I think you saw that in the way Manchester United played. They were out of the blocks straight away. And it looked like they were having fun for the first time. Now, I think that also caused them to be a little bit overexcited. overexcited and we were talking about how you know they had three goals disallowed the first two offside ones were I think just mistimed runs which we felt were a little bit coming from the overexcited yeah but within that as well that isn't they played some really really good football they did yeah yeah I thought it was extremely impressive and I think all of that to add to all of that I think the Michael Carrick appointment is one of the more sensible interim appointments I've seen in a while.

36:11Like you say, with the Holland structure as well. There was a lot of talk about the rest of his coaching staff, but I don't put much stock behind that. I mean, when Jose Mourinho arrived, and I'm not comparing them, I'm just saying, he had members of his team that people wouldn't necessarily have recognised. And they're just people that... Your coaching staff is going to contain a mixture of people who are super experienced and a mixture of people who just bounce ideas off, right? That's just how it goes. That's a coaching staff. And I think nitpicking that is a bit much. I think what was interesting about Carrick fundamentally was the setup for the players to express their talents.

36:45So nothing complicated. You had a left-sided player, Dorku, playing high up on the left. It's a position he enjoys more than being shackled. You had Bruno Finanje being free. You had him being free. You had Kobi Meyno alongside Casemiro, who positionally would be more stable in terms of his movement. And so it allowed Kobi Meyno to take up quite unorthodox positions. What was it Jackson Irvine said about Murciala, how he takes up these wild positions all over the pitch. I think that Kobi Menuh is interesting. So a centre mid, he's very unorthodox in terms of where he moves. You will find him in a right back position.

37:22You'll find him like in an inside left or also left wing position because he trusts himself with possession. I think the thing about Kobi Menuh's possession is so good at his best that it sounds really, it's going to sound a bit pretentious, but I've started so finish if you're a centre mid if you're good enough at controlling the ball you can make anywhere the centre of the pitch right so if you look at like what Cruyff would talk about with triangles I think it's similar Johan Cruyff would be like a triangle is actually like where you are in relation to other people it's not necessarily a part of the pitch and I think it's the same for Kobe Mainu like when he's in those tight spaces if he's out on the left flank the whole game can shift to there because he's controlling tempo from there at his very best.

38:09Now, that's a big caveat because we've not seen him at his very best for a while or indeed even starting. But the fact that Carrick put him in there and he looked as good as he did, I mean, I thought he looked brilliant, was a key part of this. The back line looked really good. And the key thing I thought, the mentality, they didn't get despondent. And I thought actually, funnily enough with this game, if we're getting into this analysis of it, I thought Pep was unusually slow to make changes in midfield. I was really surprised because that midfield, this is a good this is interesting because both of them both Carrick and Pep played the same position right they played as sixes now you could see from the 4-2-3-1 this had the fingerprints of a player who's played deep midfield because of the way he allowed attacking players to have the game in front of them you can also see from the team that Pep put out this is a team coached by a six who is used to having a particular type of opposition or is used to the derby in a certain way because the midfield was exceptionally lightweight so you had rodry who was really isolated for much of the game foden and and bernardo you that you know what it was reinders if a game i know that kovacic is injured so caveat i know kovacic is out and if a game ever cried out for someone like a reinders instead they really lacked that physicality and dynamism and they never they never fixed it did they they never fixed it it wasn't interesting actually that was we'll get into the rest of the game, but as a wrinkle, as a midfield, we've so often seen in Manchester United, Man City games, the derbies, we've so often seen United overwhelmed in midfield.

39:44Sometimes it feels like it's four against one in the central spaces. I can't remember a time when a Pep Guardiola team in a game like this was overrun so often. And often United were flooding the midfield and it felt like, I mean, we saw the big change at the half with Alain coming off, who I thought, very good player, but unfortunately a victim of the high line. Yeah, A lot's been asked of him for coming back in as well. Yeah, a lot's been asked, yeah. But how did you see that? So the opening stages of the game and the aspect, how did you see that? No, I completely agree. I think if you look at Manchester City's injury list and the absentees, it's huge, which is why they've gone after Semenyo this January.

40:25It looks like they're getting Mark Gay as well for£20 million, which is an absolute bargain. but for City it's much more beneficial for them to get that done now for such a small fee by their standards than wait until the summer and risk him going somewhere else and they really need that I think not being able to it's just it's quite I mean look a lot of people listening to this would just be like the world's tiniest violin right yeah yeah of course but it doesn't change the reality that they're lacking options in there at the moment. I think missing Nico Gonzalez. And Stones. And Stones, yeah.

41:06Having to add a little bit more physicality in that midfield potentially. I know Kovacic is out as well, but I think specifically for this kind of game, I'm not sure Pep would have gone for Nico and Rodri, which is why I'm a bit surprised that he didn't go for Rodri and Rinders. That was a big surprise. That to me is the one, yeah. I mean, because Rinders didn't come on until about 10 minutes to go. And sometimes with things like this, look, we're not around training. We don't know what those players are like in terms of their conditioning. City went away to Newcastle earlier in the week. They've got Champions League coming up.

41:43So there is like a schedule management thing going on as well. But I'm just surprised that Rodri... There's something kind of funny that came up when Rodri got booked and it said, first booking this season. and that makes you realise how little football Rodri's played this season yeah it does it does you know where we're in the middle of January and Rodri's got his first booking in the season in the league that's how unavailable he's been and so I'm surprised that he was no look man this is I'm telling Pep Guardiola Pep you sure you want to do that Pep but I am quite surprised that A that was what what happened initially and B to go to your point I'm surprised it took him so long to change that however But to caveat that, there were periods where Manchester City just had all of the ball.

42:30And if you look at the possession stats and break down, you'd be like, wow, man, like Man City really got, they kind of just got hit on the counter. And yeah, they did. But that was the problem. When Man City had all of that domination in terms of possession, it was really difficult for Doku or Semenyo to really create a huge amount. Although I would say I thought Semenyo, again, was pretty good considering he's playing for a side that he's just rocked up at. Doku found less joy I think on his side but I think that's also down to Dallo who I think was quite lucky I think extremely lucky to stay on Initially I thought oh yeah I can see why they've given that as a yellow but then looking at replays after the game I was like That was a bad challenge and Doku thank goodness Doku wasn't more hurt actually Yeah because that could have been really really nasty Yeah yeah yeah And then so I mean bit of luck there for Manchester United Yes For sure But yeah they just kept Foden and Bernardo Silva just were unable to give Rodri any help going back the other way and that's where Man City struggled and they struggled so consistently and so quickly actually early in the game it was the thing I was going to say before I pass it back sorry was just that what was wild about this for me was that the pitch at times felt huge a couple of things from Manchester United some really key players back and also just that you know new manager we said it was a bit catfishy the new manager maybe the new manager perhaps is back but it's designed for maximum width this United formation the 43-1 it was designed for you know we talk in basketball about spacing this was designed for maximum spacing everyone had the attacking players had the maximal freedom Amadiello looked really happy up on the touchline constantly Harry Maguire striding forward there was a thing he does where he comes forward and he he always plays the deepest possible pass this is what I like about him He really punches the ball into feet.

44:23So he's constantly stretching the play when he steps up. Should have scored earlier, but maintained his level throughout. And I thought, the question I have for City, I wonder when, at what point does Ryan Cherky emerge as the primary option as the playmaker in the middle? Because the pecking order, I feel like, I feel like there's an audition happening there. Foden starting, coming off after 45, after the halftime. and Foden who's obviously starred in derbies before so you can understand why he's given that period of grace to work alongside Haaland who was really isolated throughout. Foden and Haaland in derbies has been a lock for most of the last few Manchester derbies so I can see why he's given that grace but I wonder if I just feel like Cherky's gifts merited him a start over both of those actually.

45:11I can see why senior in a senior like I said before but I think what Cherky brings you in those tart spaces against those deep line defenses, I think is more dangerous than the edge of the box, actually. And I think a few things have happened at once with City. And I say this to be fair to them. You know, Bernardo Silva, in terms of his impact and what it was now and what it is now, is not quite at the level. Phil Foden, although he showed some great indications in recent weeks or recent months, still not quite at the level. Whereas it just feels like Cherokee is is ascending I wonder let me just put it this way I wonder what team I wonder what Pep's hindsight 11 is if that makes sense maybe that's a question to ask you know coaches in future like you know if we get a coach in like what's your hindsight 11 what would you have maybe started differently and again to be fair he might have said look Reinders was struggling we were gassed yeah yeah that could be it that could just be it we just we just played at St.

46:14James Park. And to be fair to Pep, he alluded to that when he said, we just didn't match their energy. Yeah, yeah. He was very fair. And like, so on City, is that I thought that the changes were actually pretty good at halftime. But what I was most impressed about from United was that they maintain the intensity. So often we've seen a really strong first half and they come out and they just can't stay at the level or they get despondent because of disallowed goals. I will be critical of the offsides because it feels like with United in the last couple of years, some of the movement for offsides isn't good enough.

46:48It really isn't. Like when you're playing against a high line, you shouldn't be caught like they were caught. Neither Ahmad or Bruno, who are brilliant, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to sort of knock them and nitpick, but these are not situations in which you should be getting offside. Especially when you see, when you see like Ahmad, how much room he had and how much room Bruno had. They had so much room after they'd taken that first touch that clearly they could have allowed themselves a couple more feet onside. And like we said before, I think they were like, yeah, they were jumping out a bit too quick, but they fixed it.

47:17They fixed it. Do you remember what it reminded me of? It was the same energy. Do you remember that wild, I think it was when they were at the Nets of like D 'Angelo Russell, the bench clearing, and they're just kind of like the hype really. They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. We used to send that. We used to always use that. It was this kind of Man United were a bit like, whoo. They knew there was joy to be there, but they couldn't really harness that. and you know for example they should have been they should have been headed super early Harry Maguire should have scored from that header yes and they had those two offsides in the first half I think the fear was that Manchester United not capitalising on that first half Pep getting them back in the dressing room and being able to refocus it wouldn't have surprised me if City had come out and just when Donnarumma made that save off Casemiro what I love about this interaction I mean I didn't love it at the time don't get me wrong but it was like watching two like proper football minds going at each other so casemiro sees that he actually like fakes him to the ground doesn't doesn't fake him but he delays the shot and then tries to lift it obviously right because if he lifts it too high it goes over and there's not much time to think about it but donnarumma anticipating it and just leaving the leg up there or flinging the leg up or raising it it's it's such a good it's like a better it's a better attempt than it looks by casemiro and it's a better save than it looks by Donnarumma because Rodri's also coming across and Casimir is aware of that too if I put too much air on it Rodri might clear it so I've got to like get it up but not too much it's the whole thing is brilliant but when I saw that I was like oh we're not winning this I'm not going to lie to you and I saw that when I saw that I was like I know Donnarumma's doing that thing again where he just stops everything and Haaland eventually clicks into gear but one thing was interesting with Haaland was the way they pursued him to deep areas United were very good at it's actually something that Morocco did against Nigeria in the semi they didn't press you like right on your toes when you got past a certain point they came at you and they every now and again they were quite brave and wandering out to like cause trouble high up the one thing I will say with the exception of the Dallow decision which I think he got wrong I think it should have been a red for Dallow I was watching this thinking I wish Anthony Taylor had reffed Morocco Nigeria and I say that because penalising the tactical fouls actually that stuff is terrible and one thing he was really good at was actually cut that out, play some actual football There was one bit which was amazing where a couple of players were wrestling in the touchline and it looked like they might start something but they didn't and it cut back to Anthony Taylor and he just gave him a massive eye roll and shake of the head That's quite funny actually I just I think you need that's a good way to deal with football it's just being like what are you doing I think you need more refs like that because I think sometimes people are too respectful of oh it's a high pressure game there's going to be this stoppages actually no those things ruin the spectacle actually they totally ruin the spectacle and I I thought Anthony Taylor again with the exception of that Dallow decision which again you know should have been a red but that's I don't think that's fully on him though that's on VAR yeah because the speed of which that happens I think that's on VAR yeah but yeah elsewhere in the game I thought and Mbumo look at the counter for the first goal you know what I loved about that the decision making like Bruno looking around going okay I've got three passing options here exactly as it should be who is the most reliable finisher and the pass that he plays the weight on that pass Mbumo hits it first time he hits it with one touch because it's so well guided and he looks up and you can see him assessing you can see Bruno assessing like who the best finish is going to be in this situation and making the right choice.

50:56And that's all United have ever asked. Get Bruno on the ball in these open spaces. And look, he won't get that kind of room in all the matches. People are going to watch this game and be like, oh, that's what United like. Okay, great. You like transitions. Well, so did Eric Ten Hag. Deal with the deep block. What are you going to do? And of course, there'll be many frustrating evenings where you'll have players noodling about on the top of the box because they can't break through this deep line. because United have showed people they like the open field and the next opposition, which is Arsenal, will be like, okay, you won't get an open field from us.

51:29Yeah, I think United did defend pretty well though as well, which was the major thing. The defending wasn't the issue, it was what you do in front of that back four. I think that the challenge, the thing to sort out and let's not get too excited is there were some very loose passes played in front of United's back four, which will be punished by. They will be punished by. They need to be a bit tidy with the ball, which is why the counter-attack I think works quite well for them at the moment yeah totally but look from Manchester United's point of view understandably very easy to get carried away with look Amorim won his first derby right and that was at the Etihad but I think there was a freshness that has been lacking from Manchester United for a while and that can sometimes just be like change it's not necessarily then being like well Amorim was is a you know, a bad manager or anything like that.

52:21I don't think that's the case at all. I think that he was clearly, I think something happens where you are a manager who is brought in for a specific reason because of the things that you have done. Like, and then you're trying to implement the things that you have done and the thing that you have been brought in for, and it doesn't quite work. And you just really double down with it to the point where you're like okay this is a process and it's gonna take time and to be fair i i still think that you can't get too revisionist about the amaranth thing i think it was vastly improved the season from last season i think however you look at the dynamic of that squad and you look at how they've reacted so suddenly to something like this now look it's also a derby and derbies are just different right so if if we're in if we get to april and manchester united is still where they are and they're within touching distance of the Champions League and they've had a few more days like this, there is a conversation that you're going to have to have there because I think it's such a tricky period to navigate for Manchester United because we've seen in the past them kind of, you know, the Rio Ferdinand like throw in the contract to Oli, give him what he wants kind of thing.

53:37That's going to happen quick with Carrick. Yes, yes. But he strikes me as someone who, I mean, straight away he was making a point of just being like, look, it's a start and that's it. Do you know what impressed me actually with Carrick was the Mbumo sub for Kunia. A lot of people would not have made that choice. With a finish like that, with the sentiment, everything rising at Old Trafford, the atmosphere, people singing the Carrick song. and he takes off the goal scorer for Kunja, who has not had as good a start to his night's career, has been finding his form, finding his feet. But to bring him on, he looked like an immediate threat, gave a different threat as well, pulled out wide, was playing a bit more as a kind of wide forward, as a straight nine.

54:24Got an assist and then got another rolled out. Was narrowed offside for Mason Mount, another good sub, I thought, just to inject some energy. and just the real use of and I think Mount's going to be a really good piece for him moving forward especially in as a deputy for Casemiro as Casemiro ages out I think Mount's going to have a really big role to play as Amarim in fairness thought he would this to me I think that Mount Maynou is a good midfield it's a good midfield I remember us saying like Casemiro Maynou and Finanches like the three because you then get you could see this was the first time in ages that Bruno Financial's been like just let loose.

55:05Yes, yes. And I think he really enjoyed it. But yeah, we'll see, man. I think that there's like we said, Derby's a funny, right? So it's important. And just again, enjoy it for now. You know, enjoy it for now. In terms of what it does for City, City, obviously, they lose a bit of ground, not a huge amount, but a bit of ground on Arsenal. And I suppose for them psychologically, what that is for them, it's a bit of a setback because obviously they've had this good win over Newcastle, Semenos look great, they crushed Exeter, and there was almost this kind of like, well, Pep said it best. Pep was like, oh, you're going to say we're back and now we're not.

55:40So I think City really, I think the person least surprised by this is actually someone like Pep. I think Pep looks at this and goes, actually, Pep's been on the games before. I think Pep looks at the collection of players at United and goes, actually, they're not really performing the level they really are and if you look at the players on that pitch the starting 11 he was like yeah at some point they're going to sting someone and it happened to be us I think he's pretty sanguine about it actually Alright man anything else on the derby? No just character to the wheel no Here we go Manchester United Champions League winners 2027 That's what Musak Wonga said off air we'll win it this year we'll get a bye to the final this year

56:35okay let's go from joy to whatever the opposite of joy is I don't think we can think of words strong enough because a really really horrible week for Palace the Macclesfield Cup exit the announcement that Mark Gay is going to go to Manchester City so they're losing him and then another defeat this time away at Sunderland and then Glasner well also Glasner announcing that he was going to leave at the end of the season which is probably the least surprising thing of all of this at the moment but then came the moment after the game in his post match interview where he said, he told Match of the Day I feel we are being abandoned completely, I can't blame any player, they did everything they could and this has been going on for weeks and months now, we have 12 13 players from the squad available and we feel no support, the worst thing is selling our captain one day before a Premier League game we are preparing it's the first full week that we've had in training since September and then we are selling our captain one day before a game so I have no understanding of this I've always kept my mouth shut but I can't because I have to defend these players because it was the 35th game today yes we get under pressure here and we are unlucky but again you can't react we can't help them it makes it really tough if you get your heart torn out twice this season one day before a game it was with Eze in the summer it was with Gay now what should I tell the players at the time what should I tell them and then I see the performance today for 50 60 minutes it was not easy with all the circumstances going on here with 12 players from the squad I look at the bench I can't react it's just kids on the bench and this has not happened today this is weeks ago this is why I'm really frustrated today and then he was asked if he would leave before the end of the season and he and to be fair his reaction was just like straight away he was like no never I would never.

58:20I will go with this group of players until the end. I have so much respect for their character. I see they're disappointed and I know how hard they are working. I see how hard they are fighting at the end. Never, no chance. I've said to the players that we have to stick together. If we don't get the support, it's us that has to do it. There is everybody else. We are the only ones. We are the only ones who have to play. This is absolutely wild. Do you know what I love about this this thing about everything is a fire sale okay to put this in context and having um put it this way Manchester City it's almost like the big jump the big clubs ask and we jump and like are we a feeder club for the bigger clubs are we a feeder club for Arsenal are we a feeder club for City's title challenge Arsenal needs someone to boost the title challenge Palace have to jump for them City needs someone to boost the title challenge Palace have to jump for them after everything Palace have achieved right and you look at a club like Bournemouth who are like no we're keeping Semenyo for one more game what happens he gets a late winner and then he goes off with all the kind of grace and fanfare but it's like and then he looks and that's the thing it's not he's not even saying we're a huge club he's saying in terms of resources he's saying look at how other clubs manage their processes.

59:39It's frustrating from his perspective. He knows they're never going to have the resources to compete with the top four team. Right, that's fine. But it's like, at least have processes that don't make me feel constantly undermined. And they've got some big injuries, big absences. Munoz, Kamada, like big outs, missing Saar out too. And, you know, we know that Palace have been up against it. And they're a team that need everyone available at once. They've had lots of changes at board level. Well, changes at board level as well. Disruption there. And I just love that he's coming out and saying this.

1:00:17He's worked absolute miracles. Miracles feels like patronising to the quality of players in that squad. But look at the players whose potential he has unlocked. He's maximised what he literally won their first major trophy. There is nothing Michael Alisa went straight Michael Elisa went straight from Crystal Palace to becoming perhaps the dominant attacker at Bayern. Jamal Musiala has been out for six months. If you look at the league table, if you look at the league table and don't know who's in that squad, you will assume that attack, the playmaker, the key playmaker is Musiala. Michael Elisa has been...

1:00:53The man came on with half an hour to go against RB Leipzig and cooked with three assists. And that man went straight from a Glasner training ground to doing that. I mean, it's what he has done. Mateta, for example, you can look across Wharton, what he has done with those players. It's incredible. And I'm glad that he came out and put a stamp in it. And also, you know, I love about that. That's advertising to future clubs, future employers. This is the stuff I won't stand for. And Glasner has always been consistent with this stuff. He did the same at Eintracht, but what I love about him is - This isn't the first time he's done something similar.

1:01:26But I love this. I love it, to be honest. And backing the players like he has. It's a really good mix of, speaking out and creating a big noise but kind of speaking for the players like we feel abandoned. It's good because here's the thing. Any player that gets asked about this now is like, you heard the manager. I'm just here to play football. It's great. It's such a great public service announcement. I love it. I love it. He said in his press conference before the game that he told Steve Parrish about this months ago. so we're big fans of oliver glasno i think it's impossible to kind of criticize him too heavily or it would be it would be i think deeply unfair to criticize him because of the job that he's done at palace i do think that there's also his his future has i think probably affected their ability to sign but then i'm not sure that's fully on him because he hasn't come out and announced that right I know that there's been a lot of speculation about will he stay, will he go.

1:02:33I think it's been a kind of open secret for a while that he probably wouldn't stay. I think that this goes back to the summer from Palace where I know the Eza thing is a real blow for them. He went to the club that I support and I'm delighted that Arsenal got him because I love Ebrecht Eza. The run that Palace went on to start the season was an all-time run, right? and for them they did respond to that really well I think what's happened here is that the realities of playing a European season has caught up with that squad and I think that if the club hadn't made any major sales in the summer I could kind of understand them being like well yeah you know maybe the money was a little bit tight but the fact that they made such a I mean the Eze that's a huge amount of money and I know they bought a couple of players and they reinvested it here and there, but I don't think they reinvested it in the level that they needed to to then make that step up.

1:03:33Which is hard, which is really hard. It is really hard, and we've seen how chaotic the Premier League has been this season. I just hope they stay up, to be honest. I hope they stay up. I don't mean to say that to start alarm bells. I mean, they will. They're not going down. Right, I'm not saying that about alarm bells. I mean more that in terms of just consolidate this year. If it's lower mid-table or mid-table, then great. but if you look at the actual clubs above them, if I look now at Palace and 13th and the clubs above them, there aren't necessarily that many I look at and go, yeah, Palace should be above them.

1:04:05Like Palace have, in terms of like squad depth and resources, you look, I mean, who's above them immediately? Everton, Brighton, Fulham, Newcastle, Sunderland. I think the frustration is when you see a club like Sunderland come in and steal a march on you, but that's true for the others as well. That's true for Newcastle, it's true for Fulham. There's definitely a depth issue at Palace. that hasn't been addressed. I also feel like it's the end of a natural cycle for Glasner. And at a certain point, he just needs more resources. It's like that with quite a few managers, like Conte. Like Conte will win something and then be like, okay, let's make this step up.

1:04:40And how many boards have backed Conte when he said, it's time to really get serious now about what you want to be as a club. Not just one trophy, but more. And the reality is that most boards don't have the vision or the resources or both. to help coaches like Glasner step up. And that's why he leaves. And that's, you know what? And also, that's also fine, actually. I think there is part of me that wonders if he's just like, well, if I say this, if they fire me, they fire me. And I think they probably will fire him, actually. Because I think from the board, you can't let a manager come out and say stuff like that either.

1:05:19So I would be, at the time of recording, they haven't, but I would be very, very surprised if this week, for example, the next 10 days, we don't see maybe Glasner fired, Thomas Frank fired. I thought it was going to be much more going on. I mean, that is such a calculated set of remarks. And we've seen a few, you know, you see Amirim come out with that stuff. You know, we've seen people come out and be like, I'm burning it to the ground. And it feels like we've seen an increasing number of these, like almost like defying the board to fire you i think ever since was it was i think ken early said ages ago it was like is jose marino trying to get sacked i think this was the kind of the beginning the modern era of like watching someone try to engineer their exit i feel like sadly in all of this we'll get into this on another point of the podcast or another point but the one person who wasn't trying to be sacked was chaby alonso i know well on that because On that, because I feel it's related.

1:06:20Let's take a quick detour. I feel it's related. Real Madrid fans made their feelings known at the Bernabeu on Saturday. Real Madrid beat Levante 2-0. We'll go back to the Premier League in a sec, but just quickly on this. They struggled against Levante, and they were whistled every time they had the ball, pretty much the entirety of the game, definitely in the first half. And the hankies were out, the white hankies were out, and they got whistled and hankied off at halftime, which was wild. completely wild and to be fair they only really got into it because of the penalty from Mbappe which I think was really really soft it looks like he's going down before he's even been touched it was played for I feel like it was one of those completely played for he the way he sets up the dribble Mbappe shakes him step over cuts and then it's like almost okay you'll touch me now it was a bit like a basketball player playing for an and one playing for a free throw where you get fouled in the act of shooting it felt like that where you don't necessarily You're saying it was Mbappe, Gilgus, Alexander.

1:07:23You know what it was? I think, I think, I think it was, it was clever. It was well-earned. And I can see. I think if it wasn't given, it wouldn't have been overturned. I think it was given against United. I'd be like, I don't like it, but I get it. I'm not, I'm not a fan, but I just, I've seen it. It was such a, well, he sold it well. And, you know, that, that was, that, that got them the lead in a sense. He got the header for the second, but it was also interesting who they were targeting with the West. vessels primarily and Bappe didn't really get coated with it it was a lot towards players who were perhaps seen as instigating the sacking and I feel like because I was actually asking the chat I was like wait did the fans actually want Xabi Alonso out did the fact I don't think they did I'm not convinced they did I'm not convinced they did I feel like it's a strange one because you know since we're talking about Glasner and like you know managerial unrest and all the rest of it.

1:08:14Glasner not feeling supported. Xabi Alonso, I suppose, well, clearly not being supported, but still wanting to be there and do a job with a real attachment to the club. And I feel like, I feel like, you know, we talked about this in the podcast before, but I feel like that counting for nothing, your attachment to the club, not just your legendary status, because Xabi Alonso wasn't not coming in and resting on his laurels, right? He wasn't doing nostalgia ball. He was coming in trying to build something. And the fact that that counts for nothing, it must sour your relationship at some level with your club if you keep seeing that happening I mean obviously Kian Saban who talked about Fernando Redondo being sold we also saw Kessias being bounced out the door there is a bit of a theme of there's almost a relish in some quarters there are some clubs that enjoy sacking managers they love sacking managers I've seen like fans not to name clubs but they love sacking managers it's like a kind of a thrill it's a power move couldn't go There are stories about famous musicians who love hiring session musicians in bands only to sack them weeks before tour.

1:09:18There's a kind of this power dynamic. And I feel like this is another example of it. It's never nice to see players under the cosh from the fan base. Every now and again, though, you need some form of corrective, right? And you need to be like, hang on a minute, the tail can't bite the dog. and you know there was talk about you know Vinicius got a lot of it Jude Bellingham interestingly enough was getting whistled quite a bit and Valverde too the last two I think in particular players that aren't necessarily agitators but I think players who've been identified fairly or not as protagonists in the removal of Chabby Alonso or or factors in the removal I'm so interested to see how this plays out and I think I might say this to you the other the day i don't think this is the last big drama we get out of madrid this season i just i just feel like that's still i feel like we're still i mean dude i love you not not the wildest take but the idea the idea that we hire like we hire we hire like are below and like things will begin to stabilize who is yeah who is real madrid's equivalent of i was i meant to mention this in the man she's like a bit earlier but sent a thing to use with the you know the vince McMahon gif they're like kind of Gary Neville on Sky comes seeing Manchester United counter-attack with width and just switches and he was just like it was like the stages of the Vince McMahon meme it was incredible it was like we're so back who's the equivalent of that at Real Madrid you know Madrid's fascinating because at Manchester United the ex-players you know the legends are much more hands-on with the podcast but Madrid ex-players, there's a bit more of a blast radius around Madrid because maybe of how they treat the legends.

1:11:07So the legends are either like Zidane, who are like super, and like Zidane, don't see him. He's like, Zidane will post on Instagram like once every few months. And it's basically, I mean, he's probably not even Europe at this point, right? He just disappears. I just don't know where he is. The other guys like, you know, running academies often like the Emirates or whatever. And then you're like, you've got the odd person like pottering around, but Madrid just fascinates me as a club because it's simultaneously the loudest and the quietest. It's so weird. We're going to have to take you. That's going to be a study of that.

1:11:36We'll go, man. We'll try and get you in. That club, honestly, Madrid fans, it's one of the most fascinating clubs in football. It's absolutely fascinating. Like, I've never seen how a club can be so loud and so quiet at the same time. It's incredible. While we're on La Liga quick, Barcelona dropped points. They lost 2-1 away at Real Sociedad. and that meant that Real Madrid closed the gap to a point. Villarreal also dropped points. They lost 2-0 to Betis, which meant that Atleti's 1-0 win over Alaves took them level on points with Villarreal in fourth. There's a seven-point gap between Atleti in fourth and Espanyol in fifth, who lost to Girona on Friday, 2-0.

1:12:20Elsewhere in the Premier League, Manchester City's defeat in the derby meant that Arsenal extended their lead at the top. They drew away at Forest in, to be honest I think I think a result that probably isn't as bad as everyone felt at the time but because because the context hasn't lost yet because Villa hadn't lost yet for sure now that Villa had lost now everyone knows that Villa lost to Everton at home it's an amazing result for Everton by the way and it is yeah they're four points behind Liverpool it's a subpar as subpar result for Villa only because if Villa had lost that game at Everton I'd have been like fair enough I just think that losing it at home with the quality that they have and they've shown i think that's a disappointment well there was a weird um there was a weird interview by you and i you and i emery afterwards in fact sky literally just said it was weird and in in uh quotation marks uh where he was apparently you know he was quite spiking his post-match interview saying that villa are not top five not top five contenders uh we're still not being contenders there are other teams with more potential than us, he said.

1:13:29I do wonder if there's a little bit of, similar to Glasner maybe, there may be something there with the transfer policy because they sold Donyell Marlin to Roma, which I find it quite a weird. It's a good piece for them, wasn't it? Yeah, really, really good piece. And I find it quite a weird decision that personally, but maybe there's more to it. Maybe he wanted more football. I mean, sorry, he's on loan and it's an obligation to buy at the end of the season for 25 million euros but they definitely need some some numbers in there they need a replacement for him because he was such a handy piece off the bench specifically i totally yeah yeah yeah and that i think it was a bit of a theme over the weekend i think neil atkinson posted something about this uh which i saw five wins in the last four match days from the premier league top six that's wild that's wild they're just all kind of struggling for form right and it was a tricky period where you come out post Christmas.

1:14:23It's quite a grind for a lot of these teams. They have the Cup competition. I don't think a lot of them managed to rotate quite as much as they wanted to in Cup stuff. Also got the Carabao Cup semi-finals. Champions League's now back. Champions League's now back. Yeah, I mean for Arsenal, looking at it from my Arsenal hat, extending the lead at the top in a weekend where you draw away at Forest. Wayne Rooney actually said on Match of the Day, I think that's a good point for Arsenal. And I think he was kind of right because I have to admit I I did have a little bit of a weird feeling about it because Arsenal have only beaten Forest once at Forest since they've come back up in the Premier League.

1:15:05And they also lost in that FA Cup game against them as well there. So they've not got the best record away at Forest. That had a 1-0 away defeat written all over it. It really did, didn't it? All over it. Yeah, it did. To be fair, I think Arsenal should have won the game. himself made a great save but still like sometimes look sometimes these days are going to happen man it's not the end of the world elsewhere in the Premier League Chelsea beating Bremford 2-0 there was an interesting stat about this Liam Rossenia apparently is the first top flight manager in England whose first four games have been in four different competitions so funny how cool is that he's feeling it all he's feeling it all good win that nice goal from to open it to call upon penalty penalty I suppose elsewhere Florian Witt continuing his latest sort of latest bit of good form his third Premier League goal great strike for him but then Berlin pulling back Liverpool Liverpool should have gone away with that Sunderland beating Palace 2-1 Leeds beating Fulham 1-0 good win there actually Stoppage time winner for Lucas Mecha yeah Stoppage time winner for West Ham against Spurs more pressure on Thomas Frank that's that's a bleak bleak situation but yeah and I think that's and then West Ham drawing Wolves 0 Newcastle 0 good point for them at home against Newcastle yeah looking pretty solid actually Wolves in that game alright before we go Serie A it's as you were top 4 all 1 Inter beating Udinese 1-0 away Nicholas Falkrug coming off the bench and getting his first goal for Milan in their 1-0 win over Lecce.

1:16:51Napoli beating Sassuolo 1-0 and Roma beating Torino 2-0 away. Meanwhile Fiorentina, it was a very emotional weekend for them. They beat Bologna 2-1 on Sunday which was a huge huge win. It took them out of the relegation zone but this was after it was announced on Saturday that their owner and president Rocco Camiso had passed away and the statement said after a prolonged period of medical treatment our beloved president has left us and today we all mourn his passing his love for ferentino was the greatest gift he gave himself he was also the chairman of new york-based mediacom and the former chairman of the cosmos in their previous iteration they're about to relaunch this season in usl but yeah and they pay tribute to him ahead of the bologna game and um yeah what a win they're out of the relegation zone eight points in the last four games i still run the pin together yeah hoping they can stay up because it's been a rough season for them.

1:17:47Quick shout for Usman Dembele's goal for PSG. Oh my God. So Usman Dembele scored two goals against Lille at the weekend and the second one of those was so good that it made the first one look like a tap-in. Astonishing. Because it's like, if you're doing like a video of like late era Dembele's career, this goal sums it all up. pressing two players, team pressing two players to help get the ball back. And then when he receives it again, does this kind of like a tap dance. Like it's a finishing clinic and then just loops it into the top corner, like a beautiful chip at the end of it all. It's just like, it's a masterpiece.

1:18:32It's almost like, oh, you forgot about me. The energy of the goal is like, oh, just in case, put the game on notice. Yeah, yeah. It's unbelievable, that finish. That's like, that's a goal of the year finalist. Just because of everything he does in the build-up to it. Like, completely unselfish to win it back. And then when he gets in position, it's easy. It's one of those goals that you just see like a clip on socials from training. Yeah, it's like a Ray and Cherky goal. He did it in an actual game. Yeah, wild. It's so, so silly. There's still a point behind Lens, who beat Augs' Air on the weekend.

1:19:08Marseille beat Angers 5-2 away as well. and Lyon beat Brest 2-1 to climb up to fourth because of PSG's 3-0 win over Lyon. So, it's a very old school looking top four, isn't it? Long PSG, Marseille, Lyon. It is. Is there anything else you want to shout out for today? Honestly, after that, I... There's a bumper, bumper edition of Stadio. Honestly, the AFCON final alone could have been one long whale. So yeah, I think that's it. I think we're good to go. Good to wrap up. Let's get out of here then. Don't forget there'll be another bumper edition of Stadio on Thursday, I imagine. So if you want to go listen to that and every other episode, ad-free and info, you can sign up to either the podcast membership or the Stadio Social Club membership.

1:19:59Go to patreon.com forward slash Stadio. All right, everyone, we'll be back with you on Thursday. Till then, don't forget to check the Stadio Art Just Plays on Spotify. Speaking of which, playing out on It's Not Likely by Catherine Howell. Anything you would like to add when we saw Kwon go. What can I add to that? Nothing else. Nothing else. All right, everyone. Much love back with you on Thursday. See you then. If I had the eyes of a prophetess that I could see and if I dressed like the queens of the land Used to do before And it's likely I'd have you And call you home

1:20:55But there is so little point In us trying that way Cause the way I am is a fact of day And I don't expect I will ever change It's not likely I'll have you Or need you at all

1:21:33So don't worry, I just wasn't made for you It doesn't matter that I didn't turn out to be your idea You can pray for you, I'll pray for me

1:22:12I was a flower of all the flowers I bloom And if I felt at home in your room And it surely is right Who could want more? It is likely I'll have you And call you my heart